TheRedArchive

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Most people of color are RP, and most people in other classes are RP. BP suffers from extreme solipsism in this matter, and thinks everyone on earth thinks like a middle class white liberal like them. In fact, most BPers are unaware of the fact that a majority of RP came from black culture, even things like calling women "females" originated from black culture.

Yet for some reason they try to project this naivety of what people are like and small group bias onto RP. Is this ignorance, irony, or a coping mechanism?


[–]theambivalentrooster20 points21 points  (57 children) | Copy Link

Okay, let's define what BP ideas are. Maybe we could get it stickied or something because what 'BP' and 'RP' are seems to change with every freaking post on PPD.

[–]newName543456went volcel22 points23 points  (45 children) | Copy Link

BP is set of dogmas related to intersexual interactions. Some of them are:

-True Love (TM) conquers all and should be your ultimate goal, no matter what. Unless you're a woman going through a Wild Phase (TM), then you go girl! Show those patriarchal oppressors! But if you are a guy, you aren't allowed to have anything resembling a Wild Phase (TM). You must seek True Love (TM) from the beginning and provide emotional and financial support.

-Physical appearance doesn't matter at all, "it's only the inside that counts" (probably TM too). Being short/overweight is not a hindrance at all in finding True Love (TM)

-Sex doesn't matter compared to True Love (TM), and you're immature moron if you think otherwise

-Female sexual past doesn't matter, male sexual past is disgusting and warrants shaming, whether you're a virgin or had a lot of partners.

-Female cheating is no big deal and probably guy must have treated a woman badly to get cheated on in the first place anyway, accept a children that is result of extramarital sex as your own, because True Love (TM) should trump primitive instincts.

[–]_Rookwood_Purple Pill18 points19 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

"be yourself and don't improve" is one.

[–]storffish5 points6 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

where has anyone ever said that?

[–]_Rookwood_Purple Pill15 points16 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

It used to be quite common on this forum but what happened is that rpers won the argument just like they did on lifting and now bpers claim they knew it was good advice all along and pretend they never objected to it.

[–]storffish3 points4 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

got a quote?

[–]_Rookwood_Purple Pill9 points10 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Well this bper has written a whole post of "JBY" and I would add, that "the don't improve" part is the implication of those words.

If you are "yourself" and that's all it takes to get women then that tells people there is no point trying to improve their social skills, their haircut or their fashion. All they have to do is find the most authentic version of themselves and it will come.

Overtime, the bpers lost this argument because it encourages standing still on self-improvement. They than bring forward a post-defeat ad hoc justification and they pretend that all along "JBY" meant, actually, don't be yourself! Be the best version yourself! Which is good advice it's just that it's the opposite of what they said in the first place....

Bpers are generally a bit stupid.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

right. It's "just be yourself". It's "Don't change! You don't need to change! You're fine just the way you are! If you change people will think you're fake and they won't like you!"

[–]storffish6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

did you even read this? it's about how confidence comes from self-awareness. I don't see anything here advocating against improving yourself. it's telling guys to discover who they are and what they want before attempting to find a relationship... that's improvement, just not redpill's "become a slayer, bruh" variety.

[–]_Rookwood_Purple Pill2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it might be a bad example.

I stand by what I said though. Many bpers believe that "just being yourself" and avoiding doing anything rpers suggest is the right way to get women. Which is really dumb imo.

[–]storffish2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

now you're changing your point. they do advocate for improvement, just a different kind. I have never seen anyone advocate against improvement.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

it's about how confidence comes from self-awareness. I don't see anything here advocating against improving yourself.

But that's essentially implying that being one's self without improvement is sufficient and that self improvement isn't needed.

More specifically, it's saying no matter who you are, girls will like you.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia-1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I would add, that "the don't improve" part is the implication of those words.

It's actually not. Improving yourself isn't a contradiction to being yourself.

[–]the_calibre_cat8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It... it kinda is, though, unless you are naturally the self-improving sort. What if you're a lazy bastard who outside of work merely plays video games and whose fingers are perpetually covered in bits of cheeto dust and marijuana nugs?

You probably don't engage in a great deal of self-improvement, thus "be yourself" is probably not apt advice. I don't think Blue Pill advocates NON-improvement, but I do think Blue Pill is seized by its unwillingness to even be seen as "being mean," so the Blue Piller tells our specimen above that he needs to just "be himself" when he really needs to... find some new, exciting interests, eat healthier, and hit the gym or he'll remain an unfuckable bore.

Harsh? Yes, but true. Most people probably wouldn't respond well to that kind of blunt criticism and would be offended, which is fine, they're allowed to feel that way. There's no widespread social movement against feeling offended, there's just a widespread social movement against negative criticism against people, lest their fragile snowflake crystals be melted by the unforgiving heat of criticism.

[–]_Rookwood_Purple Pill1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

just more ad hoc justification when you lost the argument

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

No TBPer ever said that you shouldn't try to improve yourself. That's simply a conjecture you are making up in order to paint us as stupid.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Certain BP positions have been eroded over time, it's hard to pin them on an individual quote - especially if these discussions are over long ago. For example I was told that in the beginning bluepillers were adamant that men and women had it equally easy getting casual sex (something that is, quite frankly, denial of the worst sort) - this was before I found PPD though, but I have no trouble whatsoever believing it considering how much backpedaling I've seen personally.

Redpillschool has made a thread over 2 years ago where he commented on that phenomenon:

There’s an interesting group called purplepilldebate, and I want to speak about that for a minute.

A common topic that they focus on is that the conclusions that we arrive at should be common knowledge and that few people should ever be as mislead as we were.

I really do wonder how it is that I was lead so far astray, I really don’t know. It’s hard to think of myself as a thinking, breathing individual then, when I now realize how wrong my conclusions were then. Clearly I am smart enough today to come to better conclusions. The raw materials were there waiting to be molded into the person I would become. But, nevertheless, there I was among the stupid. The people purplepilldebate refuses to accept exists: the feminine-conditioned men who did not know how to be men.

But we do exist. And we’re here. And we’re improving.

This is what the opposition will do when they find themselves outreasoned. They will adopt your premises and act as though they were there with you all along, and that you’re nuts for thinking otherwise. It’s just your misdirected conclusion that they disagree with. But they agreed with everything else all along!

That’s one hella bunch of gaslighting in my opinion.

There are a few comments I want to make about purplepilldebate, and our community, as we continue past 100,000 subscribers and into the future.

Purplepilldebate might be an interesting read, and certainly a great place for outrage porn if you’re an addict. But the fact is, one thing that they focus on is a way to tone down red pill discussion to give it more mass appeal. They want to normalize red pill ideas.

One common trope I hear there is “the red pill doesn’t have the monopoly on the advice, work out, dress well, and improve your personality.”

The point they’re trying to make is that you can take this very simple advice and probably improve your standing, so there’s no real reason to buy into the “hate-group” of the red pill. You can be just as successful, really, this advice has always been around! Everybody knows it! We’ve always advocated these things!

This is an interesting thing they’re doing. They’re buying the advice because there’s no real logical argument against its effectiveness. It really does work. Women like swole, fit, confident guys. But there’s method to the normalization and tempering tactic. They aren’t just well-meaning folks who want you to avoid the hate-trap of TRP. They want to make sure you never fall into the understanding behind why these things work.

Originally the campaign against men included denying that stoicism and fitness were effective with women. They tried to convince a generation of boys that what women really wanted was a dude who shared his feelings and was able to cry on her shoulder. MAKE NO MISTAKE, THIS IS WHAT SOCIETY TAUGHT BOYS. That the purple pill tries to deny it now, telling us that “get fit and confident” has always been a no-brainer is disingenuous. Anybody watching a late 80’s or 90’s movie can disprove this entirely. This has not been the truth.

They want to co-opt the inarguable parts of our argument to continue the campaign against what really scares them: understanding and truth about female sexual strategy.

This might sound outrageous, but I've been there back then, and I have to say that his depiction of the gaslighting and backpedaling and coopting of presumably "totally non-controversial mainstream advice" that took place here back then is pretty spot on.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's actually not a "wild phase". It's "dating around". It's "learning about myself and exploring." It's "making some mistakes". It's "having some fun."

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

People benefit from some of this. Not too much, but a little bit. It's healthy for growth and development. Even the Amish have Rumspringa.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"5 points6 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Red Pillers look at and define Blue Pill thought very differently from the bluepillers themselves. Most of us believe:

  • True Love™ is important. Very important. It is not all-conquering, and can fade with time, which is why character, personality, and friendship are important. Many people go through wild phases in their youth, and those are forgiven as long as nothing really egregious happened during those, like serious legal trouble or felony convictions.

  • Physical appearance matters. Why do you think that most mainstream dating advice includes "get a sense of style and start doing some kind of physical activity"? Being short or overweight are hindrances in finding True Love™ but those can be overcome by willingness to overlook physical flaws and focus on personality, yours and your partner's.

  • Sex matters, especially sexual compatibility and values. It's an essential component of True Love™.

  • Sexual past, for men and women, matters. A person that's had 100 partners and someone that's saving themselves for marriage are likely to have incompatible values around sex.

  • Cheating is a big deal and grounds for divorce or breakup.

[–]bornreddMarried Red Pill Man6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Sexual past, for men and women, matters. A person that's had 100 partners and someone that's saving themselves for marriage are likely to have incompatible values around sex.

This appears to be 100% in contradiction with the stock BP belief that women's n count has zero bearing on her future behavior.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Not true. Past behavior is an excellent predictor of future behavior. N-count can be a good indicator of personality and values.

[–]bornreddMarried Red Pill Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Then why shouldn't n count be a factor in partner selection?

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Who said it shouldn't be? Sluts do better with sluts, virgins with virgins.

[–]FalseBuddhaSomething borrowed, something Blue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's because the "stock" BP beliefs presented are straw men. As with many BP beliefs they are not meant to be taken literally and applied universally. If you're a teetotalling virgin, you're probably not going to have much in common with a party girl slut. And there's nothing wrong with that. BP has never said everyone is compatible with everyone else.

N-count is an indicator that your values might not align, not proof that they don't.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Red Pillers look at and define Blue Pill thought very differently from the bluepillers themselves.

The thing is that the RP definition of BP thought is basically that of a thoroughly plugged-in individudal, one that obeys all the gynocentric messages he got during his formative years to a fault.

If you didn't get all of them, or ignored them, or put them behind you, congrats - but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

True Love™ is important. Very important. It is not all-conquering, and can fade with time, which is why character, personality, and friendship are important. Many people go through wild phases in their youth, and those are forgiven as long as nothing really egregious happened during those, like serious legal trouble or felony convictions.

You're ignoring the overemphasis on twu wuv, especially during one's formative years, can have a negative impact on someone's personal perception of the world. Two different children raised with exactly the same set of values can nevertheless produce fundamentally different personalities. If you have one who is introverted, sensitive and maybe on the spectrum, that person will probably indeed interpret the message (s)he got about twu wuv exactly the way /u/newname543456 has described here. A person who is none of these things may actually benefit from these values because his/her default mode would be a lot more reckless and egoistical.

But the point is: just because it never occured to you that people might have exactly the mindset redpillers are describing when they talk about bluepill delusions doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Physical appearance matters. Why do you think that most mainstream dating advice includes "get a sense of style and start doing some kind of physical activity"? Being short or overweight are hindrances in finding True Love™ but those can be overcome by willingness to overlook physical flaws and focus on personality, yours and your partner's.

This might give you some additional insight.

Sex matters, especially sexual compatibility and values. It's an essential component of True Love™.

The same that applies to looks applies here as well.

Sexual past, for men and women, matters. A person that's had 100 partners and someone that's saving themselves for marriage are likely to have incompatible values around sex.

No, just no. What a bluepiller says about this always depends on the person in question. If a particular bluepiller has had 100 partners, she will insist that it has no bearing on her quality as a romantic partner (which is actually the greater issue with TRP: not only that a slut is a bad partner for a virgin, but that a slut is a bad partner in general). Also, bluepillers are very eager to give women the benefit of the doubt: even a bluepiller who doesn't insist on praising sluts (probably because she isn't slutty herself) will believe a slut's claim that she's totally in love with her low N-count beta no questions asked.

[–]CardboardMuse 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Also, bluepillers are very eager to give women the benefit of the doubt: even a bluepiller who doesn't insist on praising sluts (probably because she isn't slutty herself) will believe a slut's claim that she's totally in love with her low N-count beta no questions asked.

Ironically I think that's a sorta BP way of looking at it. I think the reality is a lot more fucked up. Women like seeing other women take up the betas so they're going to just say shit like that to keep the betas with their competition. Have you not noticed literally everything women say when they give advice is to essentially keep the betas or other women down?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fair point.

I don't think they're insincere when saying stuff like that, but on the other hand, I also don't think that they're insincere (well, most of them) when they're telling their unattractive male friends that they hope they'll find love and happiness. They're really rooting for the guys, they just wouldn't want them for themselves.

[–]Reed_49830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The thing is that the RP definition of BP thought is basically that of a thoroughly plugged-in individudal, one that obeys all the gynocentric messages he got during his formative years to a fault.

If you didn't get all of them, or ignored them, or put them behind you, congrats - but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

But that doesn't mean that every blue piller has grown up in an environment without exclusively gynocentric messages, and that growing up with a set of mostly healthy messages (or even male-centric messages) is not possible for a blue piller from the Western world.

[–]eliechallita5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This has to be to worst caricature I've ever seen on the subject, and I've actually read quite a bit of Roosh's shit.

[–]Reed_49830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What a huge pile of strawmanning rubbish.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, it's always a good idea to know what the fuck people are talking about when they say "blue pill" and "red pill". People are saying that lifting is red pill, while bluepillers also recommend lifting and physical fitness. Get this shit straight, guys.

[–]eliechallita3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

People are saying that lifting is red pill

That one always makes me cringe.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Bluepillers don't recommend lifting. r/TheBluePill exists to mock r/TheRedPill. It is not a sexual strategy guide at all. As you all are so find of saying, there is no blue pill philosophy. There is nothing at it's core except a contempt for TRP. Bloops don't recommend anything, except avoiding swallowing the red pill.

[–]FalseBuddhaSomething borrowed, something Blue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

r/TheBluePill exists to mock r/TheRedPill. It is not a sexual strategy guide at all.

When people here talk about BP they're very rarely talking about r/TheBluePill and, if they are, will usually distinguish between the general "BP" and specifically "TBP". It's the same with RP and TRP.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah, the mods here are cucks. They simultaneously say that we can't have definitions like that, yet they don't let me change my flair to BP as if there is some set of beliefs BP has that I don't, hm.........

[–]MyMorningCovfefePM me ur pills2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's so they don't actually have to defend anything

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Here's what I wrote 2 years ago about the - in my opinion - most important difference between RP and BP:


I personally don't think its a good thing to treat people like loaded guns, because then I think you lose out on opportunities to make connections.

Disregarding the difference in tone, that's probably the fundamental difference between red and blue and can be explained best by resorting to statistical hypothesis testing terminology.

  • red's null hypothesis is basically "that woman is trouble", and its alternative hypothesis is "that woman isn't trouble". In order to reject the null hypothesis and confirm the alternative hypothesis, a woman has to check a list of conditions (i.e. avoiding all the red flags redpill thinking has lined out and attributes to women in general). The error of the first kind happens when a woman manages to avoid all red flags yet nonetheless turns out to be "like that" (after the man has committed to her in good faith). An error of the second kind happens when a woman who would have made a good partner is rejected.
  • blue's null hypothesis is basically "that woman is good", and its alternative hypothesis is "that woman isn't good". In order to reject the null hypothesis and confirm the alternative hypothesis, a woman has to check a list of conditions (i.e. having conformed to very particular red flags like having a history of cheating, abusive behavior etc.). An error of the first kind here is when a woman would have made a good partner but got rejected because she heavily faltered in her past. An error of the second kind happens when a guy commits to a woman because she avoids meeting the blindingly obvious standards for potentially being a terrible partner but turned out to be a bad one nonetheless.

Statistical hypothesis testing has the trait that it generally tends to be biased towards the null hypothesis and not to reject it (the null hypothesis is usually the default assumption that has to be explicitly refuted by having all arguments lined up against it); in other words, type 1 errors (rejecting a true null hypothesis) are rare, but type 2 errors (not rejecting a false null hypothesis) are common. And here the difference between red and blue becomes meaningful: making a type 1 error as a redpiller is expensive (you're tying yourself to a woman who is trouble with everything that entails), while type 2 errors are comparably cheap (you're missing out on a potentially great partner because she raised some red flags and date someone else instead). On the other hand, making a type 1 error as a bluepiller is cheap (you rejected a good partner because she had a dealbreaker) while making a type 2 error is expensive (you tie yourself to a bad partner because you ignored all red flags she raised).

In other words: as a bluepiller, you're a lot more likely to make an expensive mistake than to avoid a tolerable one.


A lot of the disagreements between the two pills can be boiled down to this difference.

[–]Reed_49830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

IMO, the perhaps most important distinction between BP and RP could be boiled down to this:

BP: Men and women have some differences, but altogether they are both human and have more similarities than differences.

RP: Men and women are very different, and you could almost say that they are two different species.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

To me BP means dumfounded authenticity, the idea that "good" people behave without alterior motives, or the idea that anyone who behaves with them is inherently immoral and should not do anything at anyone elses expense

It also involves the idea of experiencing atleast average levels of empathy at all times, even when it does not make sense in the context

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most BP men have no idea about how often and simply " their" women "fall" for "rp tactics"

[–]dixieboyzspookyclubMostly red, not all14 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

After reading TRP stuff online I kinda noticed that working class people are naturally more red pill. Some of the rednecks and black kids I grew up around were some of the most red pilled people I ever met. Less likely to marry, believe in "soul mates" (this one more true of guys than girls tho), and less likely to say that "be yourself" shit. Hell, I remember the first time I got burned by a girl growing up my instinct was a bunch of cringey behavior to get her back and my good friend with the meth head mom (he was kind of a redneck Chad in a way) was not surprised at all and basically said forget the bitch and find a new one lol

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

People are more fucked up by life and focused on survival in those places. Idealism can be very valuable, but the community has to be able to support it. TRP can "work" in a dog-eat-dog, conservative environment, but people are often regretful later about its impact on their conscience.

[–]dixieboyzspookyclubMostly red, not all5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol what do you mean by "idealism"? So if I grew up in a more liberal culture all she wouldn't have left me for cringey beta behavior and trying to get her back with even more would've been the right idea? That's what we mean by the "blue pill." My mom always taught me "be a gentleman", "don't be a pig like many men are" and this paired with strong religious upbringing made me feel guilty for sexualizing women, led to "nice guy" syndrome and really fucked me up in a lot of ways and didn't prepare me for the cold reality. Thankfully a mix of life experience and resources like TRP have been a real life saver with my luck with women. I guess I kinda see what you mean about conservative cultures. There's so many single mothers who's dad didn't stick around where I'm from in my little mountain town in the southeast but that could just be the stigma with abortion and birth control and all. I still think many of the TRP's core principles are correct anywhere in western society.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Conservatives are more compassionate. It is liberals who are usually hating everybody and want to use other people's money.

[–]bornreddMarried Red Pill Man0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Conservatives are more compassionate towards their own in-group but nowhere else.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

conservatives donate to charities 100 times more than liberals.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That doesn’t contradict what he said, even if your stay was true (and it isn’t).

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2148033

When Reps give, it’s to their in group. Usually, their church. And Dem/Rep giving is broadly comparable when adjusted for income.

Also, another study that found the same things.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/10/21/study-conservatives-and-liberals-are-equally-charitable-but-they-give-to-different-charities/?utm_term=.f4bd99ebe19a

That ones interesting as not only does it show that once you correct for income Dems/Reps give about the same..... but t it also shows the big difference is in who they give it to.

Almost all Rep charitable giving is directed to in groups (eg their church) , Dem charitable giving goes to in-groups (eg their secular organisations) and out-groups. (Eg Tsunami relief).

Which is more or less what you’d expect given Dems/Reps differing attitudes to out-groups.

[–]daveofmarsFor Martian Independence44 points45 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

It's profound self-ignorance. Most of TBP haven't lived outside the suburbs, unless it's some newly gentrified "safe but looks dirty" part of their coastal cities. They went to the best high school, then into college, then internship and finally some low-paid job at a yuppie startup, and never during that time have they made relationships with anyone outside their own socioeconomic bubble. They have no idea how people think outside that bubble and just assume that everyone does, or should, think like they do. Never mind that their ideas come from people who lived in the same closed bubble, and that THOSE people got those ideas from another bubble 20 years prior. They are what I like to call "ideologically inbred".

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community14 points15 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

It's profound self-ignorance.

I think it's also disbelief. They cannot imagine anyone would need RP when they were fine. "Be yourself" works when you are attractive enough to get interest from the opposite sex.

BP folks will simultaneously agree that looks matter but will deny they have a stronger influence than personality when good looking assholes get laid more often than unattractive nice guys.

This is a nice way to dump the blame on the people struggling, like blaming the poor for their own poverty (just world fallacy). Yes some of it is self inflicted and maybe the poor don't make healthy decisions. But until you have lived under those conditions you can never know how you would react. Anyone would make similar decisions under those conditions.

Finally, it also means they don't have to bother with solving it or caring if they can blame those who are struggling for their own misfortune. If they had to acknowledge that BP views, seen as the default, liberal, feminist leaning approach to romantic encounters, didn't work for everyone, they would stop mocking people who were taught a lie or who were unattractive in a way that was beyond their control.

It's like making fun of someone who is weak, but they were told the true path to getting stronger was by lifting light weights. That misinformation, coupled with a society that claims women don't like masculinity, will lead someone astray. And yes, some people do need everything to be spelled out. At least someone is trying, while BP folks offer no alternative solution to RP for men's dating problems.

[–]single_use_accTaupe Enema8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The core problem with TBP is that it's whole philosophy is based on the bullshit idea of:

Inside ever man there's a woman waiting to get out. And inside every woman there's a man waiting to get out.

No, I don't mean in the transgender sense. I mean it insists on applying feminine solutions or practices to male problems, and if men just, gosh, acted just like girls, the everything would be fine for the men, but, gee whiz, because men are too bullheaded and toxic and dumb and act like men, this is why they have problems. God!

Except...

...pretty much all feminine solutions all involve "get the boys to do it for you". And when you're a boy, who's expected to do stuff that doesn't work.

"Be yourself" works when you are attractive enough to get interest from the opposite sex.

Classic case-in-point: not only does it work better when you're attractive...it works exponentially better when you're the gender who isn't expected to DO anything to start or maintain a relationship.

(And, no: "being pretty" doesn't count. There's a reason it's called "being pretty" and not "doing pretty".)

To balance this, women were meant to be more forward - more masculine. They were totes going to start approaching men, asking them out, initiating sex...

Yeah. We all know how that works out.

Same goes for other problems.

Got a personal issue? Don't do anything about it - talk about it! Let others know what your issue is, and surely they'll help you out! Yeah, this works for women, not for men - men are the fixers of problems. They're the ones women are thinking about who fix their problems. And since, well, women's idea of fixing problems, any problems, is basically "whine about it", it's not like we can expect any help from them.

In a conflict? Don't fight back - wait until someone takes pity on you for being a victim and rescues you. And yeah, we all know how women react to seeing men like this.

And so on and so forth. None of this is actually attractive to women, or, indeed, society in general. Instead, it's what we get when we let women, who had never before ever had to think about anyone but themselves, start to dictate how they think others should act.

[–]monkeysinmypocket3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

"Be yourself" only works if you're not a twat in the first place so it's never gonna work for a "red pilled" guy...

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If only. Women don't fuck nice guys. They fuck men who they are attracted to. If personality alone did the trick, nice guys would beat the assholes hands down. And yet a hot guy who is an asshole will more often than not get laid more regularly than a nice guy who is unattractive or average at best. Women don't get sexually excited at the thought of nice or average.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The anger expressed on TRP is usually a result of finding out they were being lied to for most of their lives. Most BP/Beta/unattractive men don't spend their whole lives being doormats for women AND treating women terribly at the same time. They lash out because they learned that they were at best being ignored for years and at worst being taken advantage of.

At least then they have an opportunity to vent it out and move on. Some don't, and just sit and spew hate towards women. Others learn and improve themselves.

But without gaining that knowledge in the first place, they are destined to fail.

[–]discord_doodlePurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be yourself works for anyone with 11/10 looks, cause they're literally riding a fucking magic carpet to begin with. Never worked a day in their life.

[–]orcscorper..||. |.|.| ...|| .|.|| |..||0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So, what you're really saying is, all red-pilled guys are twats. Go be yourself with a cactus. If it was still Purge Week, I wouldn't have said "be".

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are doing exactly what I said. You are automatically assigning blame by assuming that, just because they are RP, they must be terrible human beings. They aren't attracted to RP because they are bad people. They are angry they were lied to.

This is like blaming the poor for all their poverty when they were born into a system that ensures they exist in an unhealthy environment. Now take the advice our elders gave us: go to school, work hard, hopefully go to university, get a job and life will be good. Except, what if that didn't work? What if you have a learning disability, or maybe they advised you to choose a career you will not like or will not bring you success? You would be pretty pissed when you discovered the truth and when you realised this just isn't what you want.

For a lot of guys who had terrible experiences with women, they usually tried being nice and respectful first, but they got nowhere. The anger you see is because they were lied to. They were given advice that wouldn't work for them. Like telling a short man that if he stretches with all his might, he can reach the stuff tall people can. But he can't. This is far more subtle because western culture takes great care not to hurt anyone's feelings but buries the truth in the process. The truth is if you are short, fat, have poor social skills (for various reasons) or are too timid, few women will show interest.

Therefore being yourself will not work. It will work if you are tall, confident, masculine and successful. And guys like that can be twats and still get laid. There are more unattractive nice guys who are single or who are barely getting laid than attractive twats who are. Women would rather fuck an attractive twat than an unattractive nice guy. So being a twat is not the sole determining factor here. Women are more shallow than men have been led to believe.

[–]circlhat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just want to say Spot on Analysts

[–]Reed_49830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

BP folks will simultaneously agree that looks matter but will deny they have a stronger influence than personality when good looking assholes get laid more often than unattractive nice guys.

Actually a lot of RP would agree with this. Personality or behaviour is after all what acting alpha means.

[–]single_use_accTaupe Enema5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I imagine the most common redditor is:

  • White.

  • Young - we're talking teens to maybe early twenties.

  • American.

  • Suburban.

  • Male.

  • Considers themselves a liberal, well-rounded, worldly American, but is still floored by concepts outside the very narrow scope of their insular experience. (I'm Aussie; it's amazing how many start clutching their pearls upon reading the word "cunt"...and who think it's purely a sexist term.)

  • Identifies as a nerd or geek, and because of the sheer stereotype (which is wrong, oh dear god is it wrong) of that thinks himself as more intelligent than everyone else.

  • Studies a STEM field, or possibly works in it already.

  • Again, uses that geek/STEM identity to justify his lack of empathy, humanity, and general knowledge of society and people, and hell, his derision towards it in general. Sees his inability to relate to others (and because of this inability) as proof of his superiority.

  • Bases his interactions with women off of either an idealised, romanticised notion (because the thing he lusts after yet cannot attain must surely be magical), or off one or two atypical women he happens to know.

  • Generally doesn't have much to do with women. There may be whole days or even weeks he never interacts with one in person (eg, sausage-fest uni classes he attends/his STEM workplace).

[–]aznphenix0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That isn't quite so heavily the same demographic as the people of this subreddit though. We're consistently older and more diverse than reddit in general I believe.

[–]Nemobeenfound 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Pretty much. They sit in their ivory castle never having to leave it thinking they know what the world is like.

[–]StayAtHomeChad 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thinking hurts my poor little brain.

[–]LeaneGenovaBreaker of (comment) Chains[M] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Purge week is over, no circlejerking.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yay!

Putting those oxblood jackboots to work stomping on faces I see, Leanne

I am just going to assume they were the right faces being stomped....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol, I thought this entire thread was a circlejerk for some reason, my bad!

[–]discord_doodlePurple Pill Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"ideologically inbred".

What a perfect insult I have now to call those ignorant dumbasses!

[–]Scatrereal feminist5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol massive strawman. Sounds like a hell of a lot of projection to me.

[–]daveofmarsFor Martian Independence9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like a hell of a lot of projection to me.

Nah, no projection on my part, just experience. I've worked in retail and food service. I joined the trades and became an apprentice plumber after moving across the country. I'm a certified water treatment technician in my state. I've worked in construction. Now I'm a manager at a technology company. And that was all after I finished college with my degree in Psychology. So I've seen and done more diverse work than most people ever will, from the dirtiest of the dirty jobs to the cube farm.

I've also met a ton of people you likely never will. I've talked to former NFL players, chain smoking female electricians, radical libertarians living in a three-room cabin out in the middle of the Rocky Mountains, big game hunters with dozens of animal pelts hanging from their living room, and I'm personal friends with Marxist professors.

I know people because I've met a lot of people, and the people who believe 100% of the progressive line are a small, but very vocal, minority. Most people don't give a shit and just want to live their lives in peace.

But you are the first comment to get defensive about this. Is this because the statement above comes from a RP'er and you feel it's your duty to attack it, or does the charge hit a little closer to home? Would you like to psychoanalyze that?

[–]discord_doodlePurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only strawman here, is you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are what I like to call "ideologically inbred".

Hehe, nice.

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am stealing that term, that's brilliant.

[–]wubooAlpha Blue Pill0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nice paintbrush you got there. What chain craft store did you get it from?

[–]daveofmarsFor Martian Independence0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

From the nice Christian folks at Hobby Lobby.

[–]wubooAlpha Blue Pill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"nice" Christians

[–]caesarfecitPurple Pill Man30 points31 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Tbh, I'd say the most common predictors of BP attitudes are the following:

  • Middle-class left-wing baby boomer parents who paid for everything.

  • Going to a cucked school in a non-STEM field (tho there are STEMlords who parrot the SJW dogma, mainly because being a keener has killed the capacity for independent thought in them)

  • If a guy, relatively limited sexual experience, probably a few relationships with mediocre college girls who made the first move. Or a psuedo-Chad type who's relied on some external crutch to get laid, like some rentier capitalist of pussy, and has a whopping case of "fuck you, I've got mine".

  • If female, likely a basic bitch with daddy issues raised by a mother who ran the roost. As a result, she chases Chad and only keeps his little brother Chump around to do her homework.

Now, if you want to know why black culture has so much RP attitude in it - especially as reflected in its celebration of Dark Triad guys like pimps, hustlers, gangstas, and drug dealers - just read the Moynihan Report.

It was a study done by noted liberal thinker and later Democratic Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan who worked for LBJ and went on to work for Nixon in the 60s. In it he predicted that the Great Society welfare programs introduced by LBJ would not fix anything and instead contribute to generational poverty and the destruction of black families. Why? Because the welfare policies gave preferential treatment to single mothers, giving black women a significant incentive to kick fathers out of the house. This exacerbated an already damaging trend towards matriarchy in the black community that left black men alienated from their families, with black children growing up poor and without good father figures - ensuring the cycle would continue into the next generation.

He was called a racist at the time for it, and history has since proven him totally right.

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, that's precisely why black guys are naturally RP and pretty much every blooper falls into one of those categories, doesn't help they're stuck in that awful middle ground where in terms of socioeconomic status they fall down just as easily as they can climb. No wonder they're so clearly insecure and compensate with arrogance and snarky attitudes, also that third predictor of RP attitudes is BiggerD in a nutshell.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

BiggerD claims to be from Eastern Europe, though.

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He also said he was a naturally attractive pretty boy who never had problems getting laid, an external crutch: looks. Hence what I said.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It’s better being BP because you get to control the media and make Disney movies.

[–]caesarfecitPurple Pill Man4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You forgot the education system. The lefties are burrowed in deep there.

Fortunately once the student loan bubble pops, all those satellite campuses and administrative palaces will look like they got hit with a neutron bomb.

[–]TheWhitestOrca6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The reason why the education system is so left wing is because the left are the only ones trying to improve education. The right is always cutting education. It’s just common sense that people like those that help them, not those that hurt them.

[–]MyMorningCovfefePM me ur pills1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Improve..." hahaha.

The left isn't trying to improve anything, they're trying to get more money for themselves while using the education system to indoctrinate young people into becoming their voters.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That isn't necessarily a contradiction. Also, you got a few idealists in there as well.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not only the education system, but the media as well.

There are certain professions where progressives are vastly overrepresented, and they usually have to do with information or social justice and the like.

  • journalists
  • teachers
  • academics (especially in social sciences et al)
  • and so on

I don't think that this is intentional - they just cluster around them more or less automatically, while rightwingers left these fields to them for various reasons (for example, I wouldn't be too surprised if the declining attractiveness of the teacher profession for conservative people has something to do with them not being allowed to take discliplinary measures anymore).

The highly problematic consequence of this is that your average citizen is far more exposed to leftist ideas during his formative years and beyond than to the alternative: first through left-wing teachers, then through left-wing journalists, authors, comedians etc. Though I have to add that this seems to be more of a problem in Europe than in the US. For example, I've never heard of an equivalent of Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Not that I think these guys are awesome, but simply the fact that you can be a total rightist fuckwad and still enjoy lots of success.

[–]Hrdbldbbsndrkchclt1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

oh shit the Moynihan report

but yeah once you read that then observe reality its a wrap for blue pill thinking along with the janet yellen governmental report about the rise of oww births

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot of BP guys don't want to have sex with a lot of women anyway so RP is of limited use to them if they happen to meet the right woman. For the BP guys who do have a lot of casual sex, they are probably incorporating a lot of the game that RP suggests but minus the misogyny.

[–]eliechallita0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those definitions crack me up...

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just sat through diversity training at my new job at an underfunded county hospital in a poor city. It was like 50 or so people, I was literally the only white fucking male in the room. Roughly 65% women (healthcare is like that). No one really cared for most of it until gender identity came up.... then there was uproar over the "more than two genders" part, it was absolutely not accepted at all, the whole room was vocally flabbergasted. The guy tried to move on from the subject but the class kept arguing, it threw off the whole presentation lol.

These "low SES POC" the PC Bay Aryans etc love to champion have nothing in common with them ideologically.

[–]Battle-Scars32 points33 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I've always wondered what would happen if you dropped some of these SJW elitist pricks into a harsher environment and see how long their arrogance lasts. That'd be one peer reviewed study I would pay for.

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Can we film it as well?

[–]Battle-Scars8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Sure, we could make a reality show out of it.

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh god that would be great, wonder what we should call it?

[–]Battle-Scars6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Just call it "Reality".

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice and simple but I feel the title should be something more eye catching and dynamic. Maybe "Bloopers gone "Ghetto"".

[–]discord_doodlePurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Too dull.

[–]says_harsh_thingsRed Pill - Chad4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There are quite a few cases of women (well, I guess both genders really but its usually the women that make the news) going backpacking through europe or africa to 'experience the rich and beautiful culture' thinking that some african woman is going to explain the historical significance of their bead necklaces and in actuality ends up raped and/or murdered.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The men often just vanish and are never seen or heard from again.

[–]SkookumTreeWe are DONE with "cope"4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That would be very interesting. Would they stick to their beliefs, or would they come to believe as the locals did? I think they'd hold very tightly to certain sacred values, but would be a hell of a lot less obnoxious about it.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

BP are usually white, good looking liberal men and women.

[–]washington_breadstixM'gtow12 points13 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I thought that being "blue pill" was just a rejection of red pill ideas. So most people are not blue pill because most people have never hung out on /r/TheRedPill are are not familiar with the "manosphere". The majority of people out in the world are just acting instinctively and/or taking other people's dating advice at face value without thinking about how it fits into some theory they once read about online.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

That's not what RP is. /r/TheRedPill is a subreddit, most people are RP without having to read it, and don't even need the advice.

[–]washington_breadstixM'gtow4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm aware that /r/TheRedPill is a subreddit that only represents a small portion of the community at large. My point is that most people aren't consciously aware of the theories and involved in discussions about them.

And being consciously aware of it should have to be part of the criteria. The whole metaphor relates to unplugging from the Matrix. You can't do that without knowing that you're doing it. The people who naturally enact red pill ideas without reading about it are still plugged in even if it's not affecting them.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't believe in the historical functionalism of it. The people born in Zion were equivalently red pilled and on the same side as the people they rescued from the matrix. Sure, it's a ruder awakening for the ones who have to actually wake up, but BPers act like ones who are born that way don't exist.

And of course taking the analogy this far causes it to fail because I still believe more people on the planet are purple/red aligned than blue aligned. BP is a specific type of ideology you see with middle class white liberals if you are actually paying attention to ideas and being intellectually honest, and don't simply want to shit post.

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Precisely. Bloopers in general have political leanings that cannot be ignored if one is to debate honestly.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

How are you defining RP/BP?

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

RP is everything that is not part of the crypto-Christian HNU identity cult that is BP. That's the connecting principle of the BPers who argue for it. RP is a rejection of that either innately, or ones who have actively renounced it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Explainlikeimfive?

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

They religiously believe in Christian morals without justification (unless they are actually religious), they believe evolution stops at the neck, they have a boner for identity differences over ideology. Thomas Sowell would probably say they have the unconstrained vision as well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean by identity differences over ideology?

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I did another post on it here. But basically BP cares about identity expression and wants uniformity of ethics as it winds up being collectivist. RP cares about varying ethical expression but relies on uniformity of identity as it winds up being individualist (which is an ethical term).

Even politically you see this: BPers unilaterally did not like Trump (at least I have not seen one who does), however RPers had a blend, some hated Trump, some loved Trump, there were differences of ideological opinion there.

Look at the results of this survey and where the BPers are clustered, however RPers are more diverse: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3bk1re/political_compass_results/

If you look at the political leaning charts on this one you see it as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/284c5b/a_bit_of_the_survey_data_i_found_interesting/

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Can you give some examples? What type of questions could you ask to determine if someone cares about identity expression and uniformity of ethics or varying ethical expression and uniformity of identity?

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Caring about something like racism or sexism and using that to force duties to others directly affects varying ethical expression in a negative way, and enables expression of identity in a positive way. Doing the opposite is the reverse.

On the extreme SJW end you see 50 genders and all combinations, and on the extreme conservative end you see no genders, only males with male roles and females with female roles. On the SJW side you universal rules like you must treat women with respect, on the RP you see people who want to respect all women, people who want to respect some women, and people who want to respect no women.

[–]discord_doodlePurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most people are a variation of 2 types of blue pill that blue pill actually doesn't cover well.

[–]FairlyNaiveRed Pill Man4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Its also interesting that these beliefs are specific to mc folk. Despite all the differences in upper and working classes rp ideas seem way more prevelent in both.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Middle class might be a weird form of dread game. You can go up but you can just as easily go down, so it's necessary to be really careful. Lower and Upper are more likely to see shitty behaviour because it's easier to trade up from lower and it's harder to fall down from upper once you're there.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much correct. If you’re a minority and want to get laid, it requires RP tactics. As a certified Chad now, I can attest.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Most people (at least in the US) are naïve middle class white people. Only some are liberals, most are moderate to liberal, many are tradcons, and a few are paleoconservatives.

And most people are in fact Blue Pill, as in giving men traditional dating/sex/relationship advice ("just be nice, just be yourself, etc.") Because most white men defer to women on dating, sex and relationship advice. And because an increasing number of men didn't have fathers who actually lived with them while growing up.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t believe that’s true, there are a good number of white MC liberals for sure. But there are a lot of other classes, races, and beliefs.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most people (at least in the US) are naïve middle class white people.

Yes. I think the working class (of which I am a part) is much more naturally RP than the upper classes, probably because the men haven't been softened and citified to the same extent. Thank ghod!

[–]voteGOPkBlack Pill3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

agree, but i'd say most people are "purple pill"

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think most of the regular reasonable people around here will necessarily be more purple than straight up red or straight up blue (operating under stereotypes that is).

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie9 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Ha! I was talking to one of my black Army coworkers about women. He said its only a matter of time before white guys figure it out.

He said if they wanted to be treated nice, they would have acted nice. Specifically saying "females". Guess it was a way to knock over the pedestal

[–]Kraleenearby the plantation0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Yo it's common knowledge within MGTOW; the black community is socially ahead about 10 years compared to everyone else.

Your coworker is right, everyone else will eventually figure it out. The black community just got there first.

[–]theambivalentrooster7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Which part of the black community? The middle class blacks like the Cosby's or the upper class Banks from the Fresh Prince who've internalized white culture?

Or are you referring to 'street' or 'hood' 'keeping it real' black culture with the blight of single mothers and incarcerated/absent fathers?

[–]Kraleenearby the plantation3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All. If you take any of the class levels you described; Low, middle, upper. And pit the social aptitude of the average black man vs. the social aptitude of a man of any other race the black man will win.

[–]FEZwithWhiteGirls 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, I'd check the socio-economic stats on blacks again before concluding that they are ahead in anything. If that is what we are supposed aspire to then we are fucked. The black community is socially behind in decades, running in place from the pre civil rights era.

[–]caesarfecitPurple Pill Man8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Is-Ought problem. The black community from a birds-eye-view is very behind where society would like people to be. But when you consider where society is, and where it's going (namely the hollowing-out of the middle class, in a manner eerily reminiscent of Rome in the Late Republic), in many respects the inner-city black community is ahead of the curve.

When you look at inner-city ghettos, two salient features should stand out.

  • The first is the relative absence of law & order and in its place, you have street justice, gangs, and turf wars.

  • The second is a lack of resources and economic opportunity, and with it zero-sum economics.

Ghetto culture is the way it is because the ghetto is a microcosm of anarchy. In the ghetto, the only currency that really matters is power and street cred. You protect yourself with pre-emptive and borderline terrorist-style violence to make an impression on others. A failure to respond to disrespect with immediate disproportionate violence only invites further violence and predation (that's where honor killing comes from in case people were wondering). And as for making a living? You enrich yourself by taking what other people have. Doesn't really matter how, provided it works. Hence turf wars, robberies, and assassinations. There's no point in making an honest living in the 'hood because if you make any bank, some hustler will just come along and rob you. And then people wonder why it's so hard to make it out of the hood when through bad culture and bad public policy, we've created little self-sustaining ecosystems of Hobbesian misery, where lives are nasty, brutish, and short. Where you can only make it, through ruthlessness and treachery. Where you're pitted against your neighbors to squabble over scarce resources.

And we should shudder in horror if that serves as a leading indicator of society's future direction.

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm almost certain that is the direction certain elements in society would like to take us, hence the hollowing out of the middle class and the promotion of divisive politics.

[–]caesarfecitPurple Pill Man5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

First thing you have to do is identify why exactly the middle class is hollowing out. The root cause is identical to Republican Rome, but the form is slightly different. The hint is - it has everything to do with "rent-seeking".

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh I know exactly what you mean. Our glorious 'rent-seeking' class has truly worked wonders for all of us.

[–]DashneDK2King of LBFM0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I remember seeing Boyz n The Hood and thinking that they looked kinda rich, had nice houses, nice cars, etc. I heard in passing the other that if black people in the USA were their own nation, they'd still be one of the richest in the world. The problem isn't economic, but cultural. The place where the black community is a cultural leader is in family break down, single motherhood and absent fathers. This is where the rest of the Western world is heading also.

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much correct.

[–]vitringur4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most people are not BP because BP doesn't exist.

The RP is a thing and BP is a word within RP narrative. Those who identify as BP do so solely through RP vocabulary.

Just like nobody really is bourgeoisie. It's just a word that commies use about others.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't care whether you call it a mountain lion or a cougar, it's the same animal. What people feel their identity is doesn't matter. If you believe the beliefs, you have that ideology, if that ideology makes you a <blank>, then you are a <blank>. In this case <blank> is BP because of the context of this subreddit.

[–]vitringur1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a bit more complicated than that, but I get where you are going.

[–]Hrdbldbbsndrkchclt1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely

[–]KerPop42Neo was trans1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What's your source for that?

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KerPop42Neo was trans0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure, but there's no way that survey is indicative of the general population. It's just a good tool for reading the room of the subreddit.

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse1 point2 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Most black people are not "chads" or "stacys" in any way, shape or form. Asian or Latin culture is even more BPed. Why do you think there are a lot of IRTs. Many white supremacists are into RP.

As for class, people in the middle class keep fetishizing the blue collar crowd, such as British kids listening to blues in the 1970s. That's bullshit. The lower income crowd has different problems but that doesn't make them any better. Feeling that people from other cultures are more authentic is just like weebs who think everything will be better if they just get out of America. People are people. This "proles and animals are free" thing is a myth.

[–]md8716 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Middle class people do that because they grow up soft and lazy, and become jealous of the drive and self confidence of a successful working class guy who will do whatever it takes to make it.

Or to put it another way, everyone wanna look like a bodybuilder but nobody wanna put in the work like one.

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm BP and not middle class.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You don’t have to be Chad to be RP.

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

No, most proles are actually omega.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

That’s, uh, just not reality.

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

There are some lower class proles in my area. They are pure omegas. The groups of kids lurking around projects, are omega as shit.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, not every prole is Beavis and Butthead. You are either confused about what a prole is or what an omega is.

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

My neighbor is on Section 8 and in her 50s. She is an omega.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s doesn’t mean anything. Omega doesn’t even describe women.

[–]aznphenix1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Asian or Latin culture is even more BPed.

Than what, white culture? Asian culture is RP as fuck afaik.

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think these guys are on TRP if they're not BP?

[–]aznphenix1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Wait, what are you defining as BP.

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

A beta male or beta female.

[–]aznphenix0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why does being beta make you BP? Are most TRPs not RP then, if they're still only just learning?

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think "Latin" culture is bp? Are you talking about Puerto Rican's? I can't speak for them but my Spanish/mestizo family from the southwestern US is redpill AF

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse-1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Yes and other cultures here in NYC. There is a 38 yo guy I know, from the DR, who is a virgin. I'm not saying everyone from POC cultures is BP but not everyone is RP either.

People from the UMC white community want to think everything is better in other countries, cultures, or societies but that isn't true. People are people.

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I dont think things are necessarily better all around in the Hispanic culture I've been exposed to, I just think their views of masculinity are more positive

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

How do you mean more positive? Do you mean more old school, or do you feel it's more affirming toward the way that you personally feel / most folks personally feel?

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I mean that they do not shame a man for being masculine as liberal white people are prone to do. They have don't have the same negative views of masculinity

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean by being masculine, or shaming a man for being masculine?

The people around here, regardless of color, sometimes do espouse a sort of machismo and I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that but it's their choice.

I see a lot of people including white guys who exercise a lot, trying to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. I keep flashing back to this video I saw of male strippers in a gay bar lifting their leg up and licking their butt like an animal.

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

They believe that men have to make their own way in the world, that they have to go out and do, or otherwise they'll die, that guys need to be assertive and direct in order to succeed, that frankly hashing out differences is a great way of moving forward. They also generally expect a large degree of laddish behavior as just part of being a guy. As far as sexuality it's nothing to be ashamed of and if you hide it you're acting like a little bitch, the opposite of being a man

Sort of the vibe I get from liberal white people is more that those views are all extremely negative and that if you have them or act in accord wth them you're hurting other people and you should be shamed and stopped. Generally their tool for doing this is social exclusion

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Is this behavior also accepted in your social group for people who are labeled as female but who consider themselves boys at heart?

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Depends which social group

Family - no

Blue collar friends - no

Coworkers - outwardly/don't really care if it doesn't affect them

Wholesome nerds - yes

Music scene friends - yes

Edgy nerds - maybe, depends if they personally like her

[–]HitchensTwoPointOhBetapiller turned Chadderfly1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone watch the sargon of Akkad vs Thomas smith debate? Smith is exactly what comes to mind when I picture an adamant blue piller

[–]VermiciousKnidzz 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

misogyny is misogyny no matter the color of your skin! themoreyouknow.jpg

what are we naiive to? i assume Red Pill is more sheltered suburbs material for the fact that they are more in line with conservative heteronormative ideas.

for some reason they try to project this naivety of what people are like and small group bias onto

good job using group projection to criticize group projection :P

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

what are we naiive to? i assume Red Blue Pill is more sheltered suburbs material for the fact that they are more in line with conservative heteronormative liberal progressive ideas.

FTFY

BPers are truly out of touch. Did you forget the baby boomers exist or something?

[–]Adavalion1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lol you literally said "Nuh uh, you are". RPers are literal children who do nothing but project their inadequacies onto everyone they disagree with.

Yes im liberal. I'm also sane and rational. This whole idea of stereotyping everything is a RP invention. You guys take any anecdotal thing and declare it represents the rest of a group. Like every fucking RP post is about that. Sure lots of white liberals come from the burbs, so do lots of conservatives or worse, libertarians, whatever you identify as. RPers dont magically have the market cornered on "street life" i grew up in group homes.

You're children, you literally stopped maturing at 12. Every damned RP idea can be broken down to its base components and you'll find they are projecting onto everyone and they're operating at the maturity of a 12 year old.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol you he literally said "Nuh uh, you are".

FTFY

Jesus you sound terrible, no wonder no likes BPers.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes im liberal. I'm also sane and rational.

You contradicted yourself in the same breath. Way to go.

[–]bornreddMarried Red Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am a liberal and a married RP man. Being a liberal makes you sane and rational no more than being a human makes you a toaster. I know plenty of insane emotional liberals and conservatives. Judging from the rest of your post, you are neither sane nor rational. If you cannot see your own bias when looking at TRP content, then maybe you need to go sit with a mirror for awhile and really think about projection.

[–]Princeso_Bubblegum☭ The real red pill ☭-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This thread is a ridiculous strawman of feminist views.

I am surprised this isn't purge material left over.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t about feminism, nice try though.

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[–]theiamsamuraiRavishment Realist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

CMV: The reason most people are not BP, is because BP is a narrow demographic of naïve middle class white liberals.

Naive, or willfully ignorant?

[–]-AveMaria-0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

.k drok (hi!)

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Heyy bb

[–]-AveMaria-1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

First you ban me, then you call me bb. You are like an abusive ex drok. :(

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is the only way I know how to love. :(

[–]-AveMaria-0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can you love BeyondTheLight next?

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, no gay.

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

So if most guys are naturally so RP, I mean why aren't they out slaying? I've known plenty of blue collar dudes and black dudes who suck with women

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

They are out there slaying, most men are incels on the Internet. Just because you know a few weirdos doesn’t change that.

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

So you don't believe 80/20 then or wha

We had stats posted here a couple weeks ago showing that 35% of guys 18-24 didn't even have sex in the past year

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

That seems pretty high, can you link to the data? I could see 20 percent of men are having 80 percent of random sex but I don’t think the other aren’t having sex at all.

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Here's the link :

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/719shf/interesting_study_on_the_sex_lives_of_americans/

I was slightly off, it was 37% and the age group was 20-24

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

That’s one age group. Maybe that age group is more Blue pilled. I know the boomers are a significantly large group, is there anything like that for the 20-24?

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

For 25-29 and 30-39 it dropped off to 14-15% no sex within the last year. To me it makes sense that younger people would be more blue pilled and less wise to the world. I don't think that lines up with your idea that BP is strictly a class phenomenon tho

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well I think younger people are more naive, some people manage to be successful while being naive and some people learn the hard way.

[–]WhiskersNTreddish purp1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah that makes sense

[–]kick6Red Pill Man0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

That demographic isn't all that narrow.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Compared to RP it is.

[–]kick6Red Pill Man0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

If reddit is any indication, middle class shitlibs OVERWHELMINGLY outnumber RPers.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Don’t think reddit is a good indication. Reddit is a San Francisco based lib shithole.

[–]kick6Red Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The devs maybe, but it’s user base isn’t.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s close enough.

[–]redpillgenocidelolz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

blacks are the most primitive race so it's not surprising they have primitive beliefs

[–]IckyStickyPoo0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

In fact, most BPers are unaware of the fact that a majority of RP came from black culture, even things like calling women "females" originated from black culture.

Is this a continuation of your theme that blacks are not being acted upon by whites but that the opposite is true? You know, when you told me that women and blue pill men are faggots because they have hypoagency and I said that by your rationale (people who are acted upon are faggots), blacks are faggots?

(Because blacks have a history of being acted upon by whites in the USA, right from the start - which you wouldn't accept as being true.)

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What does any of that have to do with the OP

[–]PBRScagsquad(((Prima Illuminatus)))4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very little, just changing the subject to avoid having to answer the claims being made.

[–]IckyStickyPoo0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

"a majority of RP came from black culture"

Meaning, black culture bringing about RP (which is predominately white). Or, 'whites being acted upon by blacks'. Which is why I asked if it was a continuation of his theme.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why does that matter at all

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Because you still don't seem to know know what faggot means, you are out of your element. No one thinks of masculine black men as faggots, accept for naïve blue pillers who don't know what they are talking about. I can't tell if its your logic that's retarded, your understanding of what things are, or both.

[–]IckyStickyPoo2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No one thinks of masculine black men as faggots

That isn't the argument. You called women and blue pill men faggots and gave your rationale (you believe they are acted upon). I showed that by the same rationale, you'd have to call blacks faggots, too.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No, you didn't. The rationale you provided was not a parallel cognate, it was irrelevant.

[–]IckyStickyPoo2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Maybe you just don't know what agency means? I don't know. The concept could simply be beyond your comprehension.

[–]IckyStickyPoo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay!

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The original TRP / PUA was based on what white normies / AFCs in college viewed as more "urban" or "swag" which implies a white gaze view of black culture. Today's TRP has a massive amount of incels, black pillers and nazi cels which has heavily changed the tone.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most people of color are RP

stopped reading here, lol.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m surprised your brain was able to comprehend that many words even.

[–]discord_doodlePurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

SHOTS FIRED

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’m only half black, so I’m like half-RP half-BP.

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m only a quadroon, so I’m mostly BP actually.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So you’re 25% RP, 25% BP and 50% Chadpill

[–]drok007Not white enough to be blue pill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We are 100% Chadpill, brother.

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