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Women Don't Fear Bodily Harm or Annoyance or Interruption in Public. They Fear Attention from Men They're Not Attracted To. (self.PurplePillDebate)

submitted by LewisCross

Yesterday there was a now-removed post in which there were several complaints by women about being "annoyed" and "interrupted" by male approaches in public places like coffee shops, gyms, stores, etc.

First, though I've posted on this under another name, there's this claim by women that they're being accosted, assaulted, and otherwise harassed every single minute of every single day they walk out their doors. Every minute in public is a gauntlet of men trying to get in their pants. All the time. Everywhere.

I don't believe it. I just do not believe that women are getting hit on literally every single minute they spend in public.

And even if that's true, well, that's a cross women just have to bear. Women wanted a free and open society where they can do and be and say anything they want, anytime they want, anywhere they want. Women wanted the right to fuck hot men whenever, wherever, and under whatever circumstances they wanted. Women are just going to have to deal with being hit on, even by men they're not attracted to. Put on your big girl britches and suck it up. This is the world you wanted; this is the world you shall have.

Which brings me to my next point. It's not about the circumstances, time or place . It's about the attractiveness of the guy doing the approaching. If she's attracted, she'll drop whatever she's doing and respond. She could be in the middle of taking care of her child with a broken bone, and if Dr. McDreamy approaches, she'll forget the kid and give the Dr. her digits. If she's not attracted, then your very presence is annoying her.

Women want unattractive men to go away and not say anything. Women will drop whatever they're doing to interact with a man they're attracted to.

Men should simply approach and pay no attention to whether the woman is being "annoyed" or "interrupted". Men should simply take that chance. If she's attracted, she'll stop and talk no matter what she's doing, where you are, or whatever else is going on. If she's not attracted, nothing you do or say will matter and it won't matter where you are. Put the onus on her to reject you or engage further. Make her reject you. Make her make the decision.

Her discomfort, interruption or annoyance isn't men's problem. It's her problem, and it's up to her to alleviate it. It's women's cross to bear in a free and open and "equal" society that men they're not attracted to will approach them. Tough shit. Suck it up, buttercups. This is the society you wanted. One of the byproducts of that is that you have to interact with men you're not attracted to.

Challenge my view.


[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I think I'm pretty open to that. Openness to having the view challenged doesn't mean I have to accept the views being offered. Does being open to having my view challenged mean I have to acquiesce or concede points?

[–]hyperrreal13 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

All I can say is there's clearly a perception amongst some that you are not open to considering other points of view.

This post has already been reported for that reason 3 times. And almost every comment you've made in this thread has been reported for circlejerking.

I didn't remove this post or the reported comment. However, I would ask that you consider why some users see as being unwilling or unable to entertain other POVs.

[–]Merger-ArbitrageTriggermaster, Non-Pill, Cutting through the crap... 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm surprised that

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/666558/q4theredpill_why_are_red_pillers_so_angry_if/

lasted as long as it did...

was that one mod-removed or OP?

[–]hyperrrealTolerable Shitposter[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mod removed. The biggest issue was the continous uncivil comments from the OP, so they were temp-banned and the thread was removed.

It's not a CMV post, so our approach to the thread is a bit different.

[–]TheBlackQuillMisanthrope 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, I thought that post should be removed instead. The comment section is gold though.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 16 points17 points  (64 children) | Copy Link

I don't understand what exactly your view is. The body of the post doesn't match up with the title. If women are annoyed when unattractive men approach them in public, then they have been annoyed in public. You negate your own title claim in your post.

Can you clarify what your actual view is?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (63 children) | Copy Link

Women aren't afraid of annoyance, so long as the men doing the "annoying" are attractive.

If she's approached by an attractive man, she's not "annoyed". Women do not get annoyed, interrupted or harassed by attractive men, no matter what they're doing or where they are. There is no such thing as an unwelcome approach from an attractive man.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 18 points19 points  (46 children) | Copy Link

There is no such thing as an unwelcome approach from an attractive man.

First of all, that's garbage. If I'm sweating on the treadmill with my headphones in, I don't care what you look like, leave me the fuck alone. If I'm playing with my nephew at the park and you yell vulgarities at me from your car, that's embarrassing and unwelcome, even if you're handsome.

But second of all, why does that make a difference? Do you believe that more men in general are considered attractive or unattractive? If it's the latter, then most advances would be considered unwelcome, no?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (45 children) | Copy Link

Attractive men do not yell vulgarities at women from their cars. That's silly.

If you're sweating on the treadmill with your headphones on, and I want to approach you, your annoyance is your problem, not mine. That's the society we live in.

Yes, there are many, many more unattractive men than there are attractive men. And yes, most advances are considered unwelcome. Annoying, irritating, interrupting, etc. Tough. That's YOUR problem. A guy isn't going to know if he's annoying, irritating, interrupting, etc. unless he tries. And if she's attracted to the guy, she'll drop whatever she's doing and engage. I've seen it. She could be in the middle of carrying the nuclear football for the president and she'll stop to give her digits to a hot guy.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. People complain about annoying "facts of life" every day.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 15 points16 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

If you're sweating on the treadmill with your headphones on, and I want to approach you, your annoyance is your problem, not mine. That's the society we live in.

I don't disagree with you, but that's not the point I'm making. Just because you're allowed to do it doesn't mean you're not annoying.

Again, I find your post very confusing because it seems like you're trying to make multiple points at the same time, without really clarifying any of them. If your point is that women are not annoyed by public advances, you're incorrect. If your point is that hot men cannot make unwelcome advances, you're incorrect. But if your point is that men are allowed to make advances, then yes, you are correct.

Which one is your central point, the view we're supposed to challenge?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

The point I'm making is that advances by hot men are not unwelcome. Advances by unattractive men are always unwelcome.

Whether an advance is welcome or unwelcome turns on the attractiveness of the man doing the advancing, not on the other circumstances then existing.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The point I'm making is that advances by hot men are not unwelcome. Advances by unattractive men are always unwelcome.

If that's your ultimate point then you are incorrect. There are absolutely contexts in which a hot man's advances are annoying or unwelcome. Like at work in front of your colleagues who you want to take you seriously. Or at the gym when you're in the middle of a workout. Or when you're just trying to run some errands and you're in a hurry!

Women are not like men - we are not constantly thirsty for attention, and we don't value it above all else. This is projection of your own feelings onto our gender, backed by very limited observation.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

DIsagree. It might be limited observation but it isn't projection of what I want or feel onto anything.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you ever feel that when an attractive woman hits on you or approaches you, it's annoying? Or is it always welcome?

[–]GridReXXThe "XX" in my name means I'M A WOMAN 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you ever feel that when an attractive woman hits on you or approaches you, it's annoying? Or is it always welcome?

For him it's probably always welcomed. Hence he's projecting.

I've been not in the mood for attention from attractive men on many occasion.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Or whether she's even open to dating at the time. Or whether she's already in a relationship. Or whether she's having a shit day, is really busy, feels insecure, etc, etc, etc. You keep going on about how it's women's problem they get annoyed, ok, well by that logic it's a man's problem he doesn't get the response he wants from this hypothetical women who is annoyed by him.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok, but we're not talking about what the man's desired response is. We're talking about what I believe is the real motivation behind why some advances work and most don't.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Which could be anything, whatever initial attraction she might initially see in him is just one factor. I'm absolutely sure some single and looking women are more annoyed by being hit on by unattractive men than attractive men because well, he's unattractive. Men would also probably prefer to be hit on by attractive women than women they aren't attracted to.

[–]LSTW1234 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you understand that the term "advances" has dozens of contexts? From a female perspective it's very odd to make broad generalizations about "advances" without mentioning what types of advances you're talking about. It's a whole spectrum. When it comes to perfectly "polite" advances, I actually agree with you that there is an attraction bias at play. But this gets messy real fast when it comes to "impolite" advances. When women complain about male sexual attention, they're complaining about the whole spectrum. The attraction bias only applies to a portion of the spectrum.

It's also worth noting that most impolite advances come from unattractive men, and there's more to it than "an impolite advance = an advance from an unattractive man." Unattractive men are more likely to be desperate, bitter, less experienced, and awkward around women. This affects the nature of their interactions with women. So it's wrong to think about it as "the only difference between a woman complaining about or reveling in male attention is the man's attractiveness," when the attention itself tends to be different in nature.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If a man really does not know he is annoying then he has no self awareness. And if she tells him she is not interested or she is busy and he becomes irritated or annoyed and then goes off whining about it all of that is his problem not hers, just as freedom cuts both ways so does being able to say get lost. What it all comes down to is the way othesr emotionally react to your response is their problem and that I do agree with.

[–]bluepingrezBlueple Pill Woman 3 points4 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

If you're sweating on the treadmill with your headphones on, and I want to approach you, your annoyance is your problem, not mine.

No, it's your problem. Approaching someone despite that person not wanting you to and making her uncomfortable is called harassment.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Wearing headphones on a treadmill does not necessarily say "dont' approach me". I don't know that unless I approach. all she has to do is say "not interested".

It becomes harassment only if I persist after she says "not interested".

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Headphones at the gym on the treadmill/doing the machines/in the free weight area means don't talk to me from both sexes. Headphones on does say don't approach me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Really. You should tell people at my gym that, because I'm constantly being harassed and talked to when I have headphones in/on.

I guess social norms are different where you are.

And certainly, I've never accused anyone of harassment because they tried to talk to me because I had headphones in. I never called the cops, sued anyone, swore out a criminal complaint, or otherwise made a big goddamn deal out of it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I have never called the cops because I was wearing headphones on the treadmill and somebody annoyed me. Maybe people are harassing you because you are hogging the treadmill. I only wear my for cardio and take them off for the rest of my workout and I talk to pretty much everybody at my gym because it is a small town and the vibe is relaxed. But I never try and start a conversation with somebody who has headphones on, I assume they want to work out and not interact.

[–]LSTW1234 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But I never try and start a conversation with somebody who has headphones on, I assume they want to work out and not interact.

Seriously. It's called courtesy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

No, they're harassing me because they want to talk. There are 40 damn treadmills at my gym.

[–]_Rookwood_Purple Pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You should wear something with "fuck off I'm exercising " that would likely do the trick

[–]bluepingrezBlueple Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's strange. Maybe you look like you're low-dominance/not very intimidating because in my experience headphones on usually mean stay away/don't approach.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wearing headphones on a treadmill does not necessarily say "dont' approach me". I don't know that unless I approach.

Fam you need to learn you some social skills.

[–]bluepingrezBlueple Pill Woman 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It becomes harassment only if I persist

No actually (though it's an argument we often see from guys that tries to justifies/rationalize their shitty behavior), something does not need to be repeated for it to be harassment.

If a guy honks from a car and make some unwanted lewd comment once it's still harassment even if it was not repeated.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's patently absurd to state that a woman with headphones on, on a treadmill, and I go up to her and approach her, and that's harassment.

That means harassment means just whatever a woman chooses for it to mean. You can't run a society when one gender gets to decide what a crime is, and what is not.

And a man going up to a woman with headphones on a treadmill is not "shitty". It might be annoying (but only if he's unattractive). But it's not shitty.

[–]AnarchkittyBetter dead than Red 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Harassment" is not necessarily the same as the crime of "harassment". The crime has a very strict definition (which is different in every state) because it has to be able to be proved that it did or didn't happen.

That doesn't mean that if you haven't literally committed the crime that you haven't harassed someone according to the colloquial definition. Even if you haven't technically broken the law at that point, it still means you're an asshole by the standards of society.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between "annoyance" and "harassment".

We all have to put up with annoyances. It's part of life. A man talking to a woman when she's not attracted to him might be annoying. But it's not harassment.

It is not harassment to approach a woman. It becomes harassment if, and only if, he persists after a rejection.

[–]siaynoq11Imperator 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

"If you're sweating on the treadmill with your headphones on, and I want to approach you, your annoyance is your problem, not mine. That's the society we live in."

That's incredibly entitled. Why do you think you are owed a woman's time or her conversation? I can't tell you how irritating it is to be going through your life sending clear fuck off don't talk to me vibes that aren't picked up upon.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm not owed her time or conversation. if she doesn't want to talk, she can say "not interested".

She is NOT entitled to be left alone in public. If she wants to be left alone, she should stay at home.

[–]bluepingrezBlueple Pill Woman 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Her desire to not interact with you >>>> your desire to interact with her.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

All she has to do is say "not interested".

People have to put up with petty annoyances all the time. It's a woman's cross to bear that sometimes, men she's not attracted to will approach her. That's just life. If you don't want to be approached or deal with men you dont' want to deal with , stay home.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"If you don't want to be harassed by strangers just never ever go outside!"

🙄

[–]fetchyminx 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

An attractive guy could have an awful personality and that would be really annoying tbh

[–]RobotPartsCorp 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Is your problem that people like attractive people?

There is no such thing as an unwelcome approach from an attractive man.

And that is just simply not true, certainly in my experience.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No, it's not even a "problem". I'm simply calling out what I see. I don't agree that circumstances dictate whether an approach is welcome or unwelcome. What dictates whether an approach is welcome or unwelcome is the attractiveness of the man doing the approaching. I think women should just be honest about that.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]RobotPartsCorp 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think women should just be honest about that.

Except it just isn't true. Circumstances actually weight a lot more to me in determining if I am even wanting to be approached. Then the way a guy approaches weighs into that as well. His being attractive only helps once the two things I mentioned are good. If a guy is violating my boundaries, he will automatically be unattractive to me even if he is outwardly physically attractive. This has been the case for me a few times so it isn't like I am talking about a hypothetical here.

[–]youleftmeSays "not necessarily" a lot 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

No such thing as an unwelcome approach from an attractive man?

I'm assuming you mean physical attraction. How about attraction personality-wise or intelligence-wise? And are you assuming that men act the same way when a beautiful female walks into the room?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

There's no such thing as "attraction personality wise or intelligence wise". That's comfort, beta. That's stuff women want for relationships; not what women notice and really want to fuck.

[–]youleftmeSays "not necessarily" a lot 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe you're confusing "what women notice" and "what women physically are attracted to". Physical appearance is always the first impression, but the second, third, fourth, and so on impressions can outweigh the first.

[–]fetchyminx 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What women want and need are two different things.i could go eat a bag of fries if I really want to but I shouldn't because it's bad for me.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, women are not attracted to "vibes". They're attracted to looks, confidence and dominance. "Vibes" come from looks, confidence and dominance.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have. I usually hear bullshit like "niceness, kindness, loves teddy bears, buys me flowers..."

Instead, I look at who women actually fuck to see what they're attracted to.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (45 children) | Copy Link

there's this claim by women that they're being accosted, assaulted, and otherwise harassed every single minute of every single day they walk out their doors. Every minute in public is a gauntlet of men trying to get in their pants. All the time. Everywhere. I don't believe it. I just do not believe that women are getting hit on literally every single minute they spend in public.

Great, you shouldn't believe it. This may be the lot of an extremely attractive woman in a club. Otherwise, no, and you know no one claims assault, being hit on, or harassment happens to women "literally every single minute." You could have at least picked a reasonable claim to disagree with.

And even if that's true, well, that's a cross women just have to bear.

Oh really? Being "assaulted every single minute" is just a cross women have to bear? Why?

Women are just going to have to deal with being hit on, even by men they're not attracted to.

They do. But what does that have to do with your rant about women wanting to be able to have sex with people they are attracted to? Wanting to have sex outside of marriage or even LTRs doesn't mean wanting or deserving to be hit on 24/7.

It's not about the circumstances, time or place . It's about the attractiveness of the guy doing the approaching.

No, it's both. Isn't it obvious it's both? If she's not attracted, duh, chances of her saying yes are low. But if she's on her way to an exam or job interview, if she's super tired because the toddler kept her up all night and she just wants to buy her groceries and get home as fast as possible, if she's exercising and really doesn't need someone to interrupt her, or if she's simply not interested in dating strangers, she's not going to enjoy it either.

I've been approached by men I wasn't at all attracted to and didn't tell them to fuck off because I don't mind chit-chat with strangers and because, when they do it in a decent, respectful way, the attention is flattering (by "respectful" I mean engaging in a real conversation or polite chit-chat instead of immediately making it sexual).

Men should simply approach and pay no attention to whether the woman is being "annoyed" or "interrupted".

Sure, if they don't mind annoying another person. Personally I don't really like annoying complete strangers, it makes me feel kind of shitty. If the dude doesn't care then sure, go ahead -- maybe if you annoyingly hit on 30 women today one of them will say yes.

If she's not attracted, nothing you do or say will matter and it won't matter where you are.

I would almost agree with this but to me it's not just "not attracted," it's actively unattracted or repulsed that would lead to this reaction. A lot of women feel sort of "indifferent" to plenty of guys' physical appearance initially, and when you're in that category what you say or do does matter a lot.

It's women's cross to bear in a free and open and "equal" society that men they're not attracted to will approach them.

Sure, okay, but if they can avoid being too crass or threatening about it that would be nice.

you have to interact with men you're not attracted to

Yeah, women know this and do it all the time.

There is no such thing as an unwelcome approach from an attractive man.

If you just mean physically attractive, sure there is. You just need to be vulgar enough, or scary enough.

[–]foreignergrlThe Bluest Pill[🍰] 9 points10 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Sure, if they don't mind annoying another person.

I think this is key. If he doesn't mind annoying another person, he can't complain about how that person will react. So, if he approaches a woman in a disrespectful manner or doesn't take her (possible) initial rejection at face value and keeps at it, he shouldn't complain if she calls the police or makes a scene or throws a drink on his face. It's all fair game, and it's how I choose to deal with these situations - He didn't mind annoying me, so I, in return, don't mind embarrassing him in public.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Nah. The guy didn't do anything wrong by saying "hi" to you. The guy doesn't do anything wrong by trying to chat you up. There's nothing illegal or harassing about saying hi to someone in public. So your calling the cops or making a scene or throwing drinks in their faces is EXACTLY the kind of hysterical overreaction and "criminalizing of male behavior" that is being talked about.

Plus, you wouldn't do any of that if the guy is hot, no matter how irritated you are by the "interruption".

[–]foreignergrlThe Bluest Pill[🍰] 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Plus, you wouldn't do any of that if the guy is hot, no matter how irritated you are by the "interruption".

I would and I have, on several occasions, that's number one. Attractive men turn unattractive really quickly the moment they scare/embarrass you or interrupt something important (which means they dismiss me as a human being, so I dismiss them as well). Number two is you don't tell me what I would and wouldn't do; You don't know me and you don't get to mansplain what my hypothetical actions (or lack of thereof) would be.

The reason why I think this is perceived this way is that, let's be honest, if an attractive guy hits on me and I'm not interested, there are plenty of women who are interested, so it's easier for that guy to take rejection in a civil manner and go to the next girl. Under normal circumstances, very attractive guys don't go around pestering women after an initial rejection, though, like I said, I've had my share of that, too. The real pestering is usually done by unattractive guys, not because I spread my legs to every attractive guy I meet, but because those guys usually don't give me any problems after being rejected. They just move on, as they should, while guys with less options usually don't.

Nah. The guy didn't do anything wrong by saying "hi" to you. The guy doesn't do anything wrong by trying to chat you up. There's nothing illegal or harassing about saying hi to someone in public.

I'm ok with hi and small talk, from both attractive and non attractive guys if they're ok with the fact that most of the time, if I'm busy, I won't respond to it. My ignoring means "go away and don't bother me anymore". If that msg isn't crystal clear and they do keep on bothering me, I'll make a scene, no matter how attractive the guys are. They don't mind interrupting me while I'm reading a book, trying to study, going to an interview, trying to have a conversation with a friend? Fair enough. I don't mind embarrassing them in public and, if I feel threatened in any way, I don't mind calling the cops and/or protecting myself. I criminalize criminal behavior. Simple as that.

On the other hand, if I'm available, interested in having small talk and I'm approached in a respectful manner, that's another story. I welcome that from guys, gals, children, old people alike, attractive or not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can you give me an example of your throwing a drink in Chad's face? Can you give me an example of your making a scene because Chad won't let up?

Because I have never, ever, ever seen Chad turned away, much less nuked in public.

[–]foreignergrlThe Bluest Pill[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can give you several. Threw a drink in guy's face at a club because he was grinding on me after I politely asked him to stop first, and then warned and moved away. He followed us, tried to do it again and ended up with my margarita all over his very handsome face. I got many free drinks after that, so don't feel bad for me, it wasn't a total waste. Had to call security on very built, well dressed, tall handsome guy following me inside a grocery store to ask me my phone number and kept following me after I refused to give it to him. As a matter of fact, he was so good looking that the head of security lady kept asking me if I was sure, and said she would have to review footage of it before she felt comfortable approaching him "because he doesn't look the type of guy who goes around doing that". By the time she felt comfortable confronting him he had left the store and I was scared to death to be in the parking lot by myself, so I called a taxi instead. Last year on a train. I'm reading and this very hot guy comes and starts chatting. I'm annoyed because I'm in a relationship and all I really want to do is read my book, but he is polite and I kinda don't want to be a dick. Half an hour into the conversation he asks me if he can add me on FB and have my phone number. I decline and he starts to get really close and to touch my arm. I ask him to stop, please, it was a nice chat but I really want to go back to my book. Guy won't shut up, until I ask very loudly in the train if someone will change seats with me cause this guy is bothering me so much. An older couple comes to my rescue. Those three just right off the top of my head. And now you're gonna go "nope, the guys were just not attractive enough" and it will be my word against yours. What does this accomplish? You have your mind made up to not believe anything a woman tells you. I will tell you, though, that these and others were guys I would have gladly given my phone number to if I wasn't in a relationship and if they weren't such douchebags.

[–]mashakosMastered Himself, Mastered The Pussy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Under normal circumstances, very attractive guys don't go around pestering women after an initial rejection

Exactly. Attractive men are secure enough in their chances that they won't escalate a simple rejection into an all out scene. Attractive men who are also aware of social conventions will not put themselves at a serious disadvantage if things don't go their way.

The one time I've had an embarrassingly negative reaction from a woman by just saying "hi" was in college. I was so socially oblivious that I got up off my table in a cafe during a busy time after classes, walked over to to a table with a girl and her friend sitting together. I just stood there smiling and said "hi". The friend instantly shot back with a "can I help you?" while they were both staring at me. At the time I thought it was extremely unfair mistreatment considering I was being a "nice guy" and all that crap. Thinking about it later I realised that:

A) The social context was that of two women winding down after a day of classes, the likelihood of them being receptive to a random guy popping into their vicinity and just standing there was extremely low (unless I was a sex god or something)

B) I disrupted the time of two complete strangers while not really offering a valid context for it

C) I just stood there after saying hi, making the whole situation extremely awkward for all involved

It was extremely embarrassing at the time but it was a valuable learning experience: A man will never strike up a rapport with a woman by just plopping himself in their space and expecting a rom com meet cute.

The hilarious part? While I was struggling along in my gawky phase during junior year to get any action, I was told in confidence that a girl I thought was extremely hot had a crush on me freshman year. I was so retarded....

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah ok.

Seen too many hot guys hit on girls, and the hot guys get welcomed for it. I'll believe my lying eyes on this one.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Then what was the point of the CMV?

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So he can mansplain womening to us.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

His favorite

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

have you ever hung up in telemarketers? did they do anything wrong ir illegal?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, and no. But I put up with it and don't bitch about it, because it's a first world problem, really.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Should have hung up and called the cops.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So your calling the cops or making a scene or throwing drinks in their faces is EXACTLY the kind of hysterical overreaction and "criminalizing of male behavior" that is being talked about.

his problem, not mine. what do i care if he gets a drink to the face or beat up or arrested or thrown in the sewers or fed to raptors? his cross to bear; shouldn't have approached me if he didn't want that to happen. shoulda just stayed home.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

So, if he approaches a woman in a disrespectful manner... he shouldn't complain if she calls the police

It's 2017, guys.

[–]foreignergrlThe Bluest Pill[🍰] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

So, if he approaches a woman in a disrespectful manner... he shouldn't complain if she calls the police

It's 2017, guys.

Would you mind elaborating on that? Do you mean that 2017 is the year when guys get to corner women asking for physical intimacy and scream obscenities at them in clubs, repeatedly interrupt them when they're doing something and are clearly not interested, attempt to put drugs in their drinks, catcall them, touch them without invitation, follow them, insist in paying for their drinks after they refused it for 10th time, jump in front of them in a threatening manner etc, etc, etc? All of those situations are real life situations I had to deal with, and the list goes on. Heck, no one told me this was the year, I thought we scheduled that for 2020.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I think you've confused 'disrespectful' with 'threatening'.

You can't be catty if you don't even know how to English.

[–]foreignergrlThe Bluest Pill[🍰] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

As a matter of fact, screaming obscenities, interrupting, catcalling (depending on the physical distance) and insisting on paying for drinks / getting your phone number / making conversation when the girl is clearly not interested is really just disrespectful and annoying. Your attempt to mansplain how I should feel in any situation after I challenged you on your bullshit failed miserably.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it is disrespectful, but you said that a man shouldn't be surprised if a woman calls the cops if he approaches in a disrespectful way, and that covers more than just the threatening and aggressive behaviour that you described, it could just be being rude and obnoxious, but that's not a crime.

Your attempt to mansplain how I should feel in any situation

I didn't even do that at all. Get your head out of your ass.

[–]foreignergrlThe Bluest Pill[🍰] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it is disrespectful, but you said that a man shouldn't be surprised if a woman calls the cops if he approaches in a disrespectful way, and that covers more than just the threatening and aggressive behaviour that you described, it could just be being rude and obnoxious, but that's not a crime.

Wrong again. What? Threatening behavior is disrespectful. Are you on drugs right now? Do you think someone pointing a gun at you respects you? What I said involved both situations and you're cherry picking part of my comment at will. What I said was, and I quote myself:

he shouldn't complain if she calls the police or makes a scene or throws a drink on his face.

Since you're having problems grasping basic reading comprehension, I'll explain: It is understood that the girl's actions will correspond accordingly to whether she feels annoyed, disrespected or threatened (but let's keep in mind that threatening behavior is indeed disrespectful). I'll explain further: Personally, I'll make a scene or throw a drink in the creep's face if he's disrespectful and close enough to bother me and I will call the cops or the owner / manager / security of the establishment if I feel disrespected and threatened. Is it clear now?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lmao, you literally can't read. Yes threatening behaviour is disrespectful but what I said was that disrespectful behaviour is not necessarily threatening.

[–]foreignergrlThe Bluest Pill[🍰] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep. Don't worry. No one is going to call the cops on you just for being disrespectful, if your disrespect doesn't include aggressiveness. It's 2017, after all, though guys so hellbent on being disrespectful to women would usually prefer if we lived like we did in the 50s. You'll just end up with a few very deserved margaritas rolling down your face.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

They do. But what does that have to do with your rant about women wanting to be able to have sex with people they are attracted to? Wanting to have sex outside of marriage or even LTRs doesn't mean wanting or deserving to be hit on 24/7.

Sorry, it does. If you're reasonably attractive, you're going to get approached, most of the time by men you're not attracted to. Tough shit. In today's society, that's something women will just have to deal with. It's a byproduct of the society you wanted.

But if she's on her way to an exam or job interview, if she's super tired because the toddler kept her up all night and she just wants to buy her groceries and get home as fast as possible, if she's exercising and really doesn't need someone to interrupt her, or if she's simply not interested in dating strangers, she's not going to enjoy it either.

Not in my experience. If the guy is hot, she's all for it.

Sure, if they don't mind annoying another person. Personally I don't really like annoying complete strangers, it makes me feel kind of shitty. If the dude doesn't care then sure, go ahead -- maybe if you annoyingly hit on 30 women today one of them will say yes.

He won't know unless he tries. No man hits on 30 women a day. Aint nobody got time for that.

Sure, okay, but if they can avoid being too crass or threatening about it that would be nice.

Men aren't crass or threatening. Forward, maybe. Direct, maybe. Persistent, maybe. And even if it is crass, tough shit. "Threatening" isn't really physical threats. When a woman says a man is "threatening", she means "unattractive man trying to act like attractive man."

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

If you're reasonably attractive, you're going to get approached, most of the time by men you're not attracted to.

Yes, sure. But what exactly does that have to do with wanting to be able to have sex outside of marriage?

Not in my experience

Oh, great. Guess what? My experience goes against that. What argument comes next?

Men aren't crass or threatening

Clearly you've never been a woman... or even just in any sort of altercation with someone bigger than you.

When a woman says a man is "threatening", she means "unattractive man trying to act like attractive man."

No, she means "person who is stronger than me clearly having no respect for my boundaries."

I guess the fact that you haven't actually addressed any of my points (why is assault a cross women have to bear? Can't you see that a woman's reaction to a man's approach is both about attraction and circumstances?) just means you disagree and don't actually give a shit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Women are not getting assaulted. That's the point.

I also didn't say getting assaulted is women's cross to bear. I said getting hit on is women's cross to bear. Please read more carefully.

More to the point, what is women's cross to bear is being approached by unattractive men. If you accept it's women's cross to bear, why are women here bitching and complaining about being approached by ("annoyed by") (unattractive) men in public while they're fingerfucking their iPhones? If women accept that, why are they griping about it?

Answer: They're griping about unattractive men. It's not that it's "men" doing the approaching. They don't like that it's unattractive men doing the approaching. And women don't like that, because unattractive men thinking they can step to them is a reflection of their sexual market values - "if this unattractive guy thinks he's got what it takes, what does that say about ME?? It says I'm unattractive too!!! REEEEEEE"

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Women are not getting assaulted

No, you and I both agree they're not getting assaulted every minute, but you said even if they were, that would be their cross to bear.

If you accept it's women's cross to bear, why are women here bitching and complaining about being approached by ("annoyed by") (unattractive) men in public while they're fingerfucking their iPhones?

Because clearly I'm not all women. Because when you're "fingerfucking your iPhone" you're clearly not interested in being approached. And because you can complain about being "annoyed by someone" even when you know it's going to happen. I complained yesterday when my train was late even though I've accepted my train is almost always going to be late.

And women don't like that, because unattractive men thinking they can step to them is a reflection of their sexual market values

No, they don't like it because turning someone down is annoying or awkward or can make you feel bad. They don't like it because being hit on when you have other things to do is an annoyance. A woman doesn't take a few unattractive guys hitting on her as a sign that she's unattractive if she doesn't have problems getting guys she actually finds attractive.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

No, you and I both agree they're not getting assaulted every minute, but you said even if they were, that would be their cross to bear.

I didn't say anything of the kind. Read the OP again. What was ACTUALLY said was:

I don't believe it. I just do not believe that women are getting hit on literally every single minute they spend in public.

And even if that's true, well, that's a cross women just have to bear.

Lyan said:

Because when you're "fingerfucking your iPhone" you're clearly not interested in being approached. And because you can complain about being "annoyed by someone" even when you know it's going to happen

Tough shit. If a guy wants to approach you, he shouldn't care if you're annoyed. If you are annoyed, say "no thanks not interested" and go on about your day. Your annoyance is YOUR problem, not his.

they don't like it because turning someone down is annoying or awkward or can make you feel bad. They don't like it because being hit on when you have other things to do is an annoyance.

If that were true, it wouldn't be viewed as a serious nationwide problem with LEO getting involved and women writing articles about it and screaming "rape culture" all over the place. If it were just "annoyance", women would just shrug it off and go about their lives. But no, they have to make every petty interruption (by unattractive men) a goddamn federal case.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I don't believe it.

I assumed "it" was referring to what you had stated above. If that's not the case, I apologize for misunderstanding.

If you are annoyed, say "no thanks not interested" and go on about your day.

I haven't disagreed with this. I'm just saying women can complain about it. It seems to bother you that women complain about something that annoys or makes them uncomfortable.

If that were true, it wouldn't be viewed as a serious nationwide problem with LEO getting involved

Yeah that's an American thing I can't really say much on, so I hope someone else will answer. I don't think I've ever even heard of LEO.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

LEO = Law enforcement officers. Shorthand for police, law enforcement, etc.

Now that I understand you're not from the US, I now see the crux of your disagreement.

Women aren't really complaining about the interruption. They're complaining about unattractive men. Also, annoyances and interruptions like this are part of life. No use in complaining about them, particularly when they are part of a life that women asked for and demanded.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Ah, thanks for explaining. :p In that case, we have LEO here too (obviously) but I've never heard of them getting involved in this kind of stuff.

I really still disagree with you though. Women are split into several groups... One claims to hate being hit on by strangers under any circumstances (the AW sub seems full of those). Another complains about the way men (some men) approach -- when, again, it's vulgar (immediately sexual), or scary for her (approaching her in an empty street for example). None of them actually think, Yeah that guy was so ugly, how dare he approach me? They might think, He's unattractive and I hate turning people down, how awkward or Jesus, I hate being hit on by strangers.

part of a life that women asked for and demanded

This is still the part I don't get. Are you saying that feminism wanting women be able to have casual sex automatically means all women have to be okay with being hit on by strangers?

annoyances and interruptions like this are part of life. no use in complaining

There's no use complaining about my late train either, but I still do it. People like to complain, who cares about use? Do you not know people who complain about other things that are "part of life"?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you saying that feminism wanting women be able to have casual sex automatically means all women have to be okay with being hit on by strangers?

Yep. That's exactly what I'm saying. Well, they don't have to be OK with it. But they do have to accept it and tolerate it as part of life.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

What does fingerfucking their iphones mean?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Having the gall to text or use social media in public, I'm guessing.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, that's what it read to me as well. So much disdain for the younger generation. Don't they know how played out that is?

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I always have to laugh when people on Reddit act like dicking around on your phone is a crime against humanity.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Using reddit on your phone means you're a garbage person. The truly noble use desktop computers.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

IT's a figure of speech. It's people using, texting with, poking at, and surfing the internet on, their smartphones.

[–]AnarchkittyBetter dead than Red 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men aren't crass or threatening.

Bulllllllllllllllllllshit!

Some men aren't, I might even go so far as to say that most men aren't, at least most of the time, but to say that men in general "aren't crass or threatening" is just hilariously false. You're either orders of magnitude more naive than I ever gave you credit for, completely delusional, or lying to support your point despite the overwhelming truth. I don't really care which.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Women are just going to have to deal with being hit on, even by men they're not attracted to.

Sure. And you're going to have to suck it up and deal with your damaged aching ego when I look at you, laugh in your fuckboy face, and proceed to ignore you entirely. Try to hit on me all you want but you sure as shit ain't entitled to my attention.

Men who try to hit on women have to deal with the fact that they are owed nothing and must not get violent when their feelings are hurt.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I can accept rejection. Rejection is a fact of life for men.

Women need to accept that getting hit on by unattractive men is a fact of life for them.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Men need to accept that being ignored and insulted is a perfectly valid response to unwanted sexual attention and should learn to deal with bruised egos without resorting to aggression.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fair enough.

Then women need to accept that men can and should hit on them when they want to, even at inopportune times and even if it's annoying.

[–]sse23Realist 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Why the need to be an insulting bitch about it? Is rejection not enough of a humiliation?

I mean if the guy hitting on you is acting like an asshole go ahead. But why the need to insult and shame right of the bat?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You're not entitled to shit, certainly not my politeness. Don't want to feel bad? Take some personal responsibility for making yourself vulnerable.

[–]sse23Realist 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So if a guy comes up to and says hello. You are just going to insult him straight away? That is just... Wow. Really a great and mature way to meet people.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Depends on my mood.

Really a great and mature way to meet people.

You missed the part where I didn't want anyone to talk to me in the first place. ;)

[–]sse23Realist 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So pleople should be mind readers before saying hello to you...

Well I hope being insulting works out for you in life :)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men need to learn to accept the personal consequences of their actions.

And yes, reading body language is an important social skill that I expect people to have.

[–]BPremiumMeh 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Hahahahaha love how you have to throw in cant get violent, because you know you'd be fucked, literally and figuratively, if men didnt come to your rescue

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. That's kinda the point.

Your comment is literally "HAHAHA women are fucking weaker and the target of sexualized violence fucking pussy ass bitch."

It's really sad that you buy into toxic masculinity such that you believe not being eager to engage in physical violence something to be ashamed about.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think women's live stop as soon as a hot guy enters the room? No seriously, there are hundreds of more important things going on in the world, today right now, than getting the D. This, is purely solipism. Women aren't even sexually attracted to a guy who's only action was entering a room. What about women in relationships? Would they ignore their child's broken bone because some hot stud they don't really want enters the room? This is silly... Because there's a hundred hot guys that work in my building, yet somehow... Through sheer determination, I manage to get my shit done, and go home to my boyfriend every night.

When women go out into the world, it's usually because they want to get some shit done. Men, even attractive men, interrupt that when they hit on women. Sure, sometimes is wanted and sometimes its flattering, but it's not helping that particular woman reach her particular goal. It's a side quest that some women would rather just skip. I agree, to a certain extent women just need to deal, but that doesn't mean that men can't at least try to contain their sexuality to the appropriate venues.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between "hot guy walking in the room" and "hot guy approaching and engaging". Put down that strawman before you hurt yourself.

that doesn't mean that men can't at least try to contain their sexuality to the appropriate venues.

There are no "appropriate venues" anymore. Women wanted a free and open society for sex anywhere, anytime, anyplace, where women can do, be and say anything they want, anytime, anywhere. The entire world is an appropriate venue. It's on us to approach. It's on you to reject or accept.

What you're really saying with "appropriate venues" is not that the place or time must be appropriate; it's that the MEN DOING THE APPROACHING must be "appropriate". Attractive men can approach anytime. Unattractive men are not to approach, ever, anywhere.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between "hot guy walking in the room" and "hot guy approaching and engaging". Put down that strawman before you hurt yourself.

The point still stands. A hot guy approaching me is not more important than picking up that last ingredient on my shopping list so I can go home and cook dinner. I've brushed off plenty of hot guys standing between me and a hot baked ziti. Abundance mentality, women don't care, there will be plenty of hot men to serve at my leisure.

Edit: For style.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

It's more nuanced than that.

Ryan Reynolds interrupting your shopping is okay, Ryan Reynolds who has fallen in love at first sight with you and wants to marry you even better. Generic attractive guy, meh.

There's no abundance of Ryan Reynolds, so no abundance mentality.

[–]OfSpock 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What if I'm already dating Brad Pitt('s younger more attractive brother)?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

It's more nuanced than that.

Ryan Reynolds interrupting your shopping is okay, Ryan Reynolds who has fallen in love at first sight with you and wants to marry you even better. Generic attractive guy, meh.

There's no abundance of Ryan Reynolds, so no abundance mentality.

Yes it's more nuanced than that, life always is. But no, even if Ryan Reynolds bumped into me while grocery shopping and immediately fell on to one knee to propose to me, I'd still not drop everything I was doing to suck his cock. Because I'm an adult, and I know if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Besides, I don't even think he's Jewish...

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

But no, even if Ryan Reynolds bumped into me while grocery shopping and immediately fell on to one knee to propose to me, I'd still not drop everything I was doing to suck his cock.

Yeah I just don't think this is true. Not the sucking cock part, but the idea that you'd just shrug it off. I think you're being quite dishonest here and I think you must know it.

Because I'm an adult, and I know if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Well you're not hallucinating. This is just a hypothetical scenario, so assume it's true for now. But that would never happen so you can't etc. etc. yeah okay but you've admitted that the belief that it would never happen is influencing how you would perceive yourself to react to it if it genuinely did happen. Women seem to imagine themselves as efficient food-shopping and cafe going machines that can't stand to lose two minutes of their time, even when a very attractive potential partner presents himself. If you can, forget Ryan Reynolds for a second. A guy who is unusually attractive, relative to what you consider to be abundant, approaches you in an ostensibly sincere way. You're saying you don't even flinch? Minus the bottom 20% (let's say) of women, the majority of the rest have an abundance of attractive guys (what they consider attractive) trying to get with them. There comes a level of attractiveness in guys at which there isn't an abundance for them, depending on her level of attractiveness. Your original point was that hot guys are abundant, but surely there are very very hot guys that aren't in abundance for you, and you're saying you wouldn't stop scanning potatoes for one minute to even investigate whether it's worth it? It's doubtful.

Besides, I don't even think he's Jewish...

He'll convert.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'd be incredibly skeptical of the situation. If he is throwing himself at me, even if he is the most beautiful man in the world, there is clearly something wrong with him. And if I am busy, I don't care to try and figure out what it is. I have a perfectly good man at home, one whom I already know his flaws and have accepted. I'm not going to throw that all away on the off chance that Ryan Reynolds is for real.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well okay, if you're taken + faithful and you're not thinking of this in an abstract way, then this is pointless. I'm just trying to get at this point that once the kind of guy approaching isn't abundant, most girls aren't going to shrug it off unless they see the approach as being insincere. Of course, there's the other factors that you mentioned, and I get that. Most people will find it difficult to believe that such an attractive person is that interested in them, or don't want to get involved with someone who's much more attractive than them for whatever reason etc. Still, there's a very reasonable assumption that every single (and some taken) woman will have a point where they'll stop what they're doing for a certain guy because that kind of opportunity isn't abundant.

And even then, don't pretend you wouldn't stop and at least talk to Ryan Reynolds, and that you wouldn't be even a little bit attracted to him or flirt with him if he was flirting with you. I just don't believe that for one second, not for any girl.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well if you can make the assumption that a taken+committed woman would pass over Mr. Reynolds, it's it so hard to believe that a lesbian woman might? Or that a woman with her children wouldn't want them to her her fling herself at a man? Or that a woman would disqualify him because she previously dated a famous actor and hated the experience? Or what ever other thing?

If we take the celebrity element out of it, and it's just a hot guy, yeah there most definitely are plenty of guys like that that hit on women every day. The thirst is real. The opportunity is abundant.

Now you do bring up a decent point, that if the woman is single (and some who are taken), will take the time to chat up our friend Ryan. If she is on the look out for a mate, or to branch swing, then her main goal is to do that. She will put aside less important things in order to do that. But that's more dependent on the woman, and her state of being, and less about the man. It doesn't matter I'd Ryan tries to chat her up, or Chad, or maybe Billy... If she is on the prowl, she would be open to the conversation.

As for me, no I wouldn't stop and flirt with Ryan. I may want to, but I don't need that sort of temptation in my life. I'd cut the conversation as short as possible and move on with my day.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well if you can make the assumption that a taken+committed woman would pass over Mr. Reynolds, it's it so hard to believe that a lesbian woman might? Or that a woman with her children wouldn't want them to her her fling herself at a man? Or that a woman would disqualify him because she previously dated a famous actor and hated the experience? Or what ever other thing?

Yeah sure, we're just talking about women that don't have these other factors influencing their decision, just ordinary, single, straight, women who don't have kids with them. I'm not trying to say that it happens every time, I'm just using it to make a point.

yeah there most definitely are plenty of guys like that that hit on women every day. The thirst is real. The opportunity is abundant.

There aren't though, unless your definition of hot is pretty lax. For 95% of women there will always be a level of attractiveness that isn't easily accessible to them and a guy that attractive only approaches her once every few years... well then she's not going to be like 'nah guys like that are abundant', simply because they aren't.

Now you do bring up a decent point, that if the woman is single (and some who are taken), will take the time to chat up our friend Ryan. If she is on the look out for a mate, or to branch swing, then her main goal is to do that. She will put aside less important things in order to do that. But that's more dependent on the woman, and her state of being, and less about the man. It doesn't matter I'd Ryan tries to chat her up, or Chad, or maybe Billy... If she is on the prowl, she would be open to the conversation.

I think you're understating the effect of hypergamy. You really think that women who aren't particularly looking for anything new wouldn't be extremely interested in him? Why even have a red flair if you don't think almost every woman wouldn't drop what they were doing for Ryan Reynolds.

As for me, no I wouldn't stop and flirt with Ryan. I may want to, but I don't need that sort of temptation in my life. I'd cut the conversation as short as possible and move on with my day.

I don't believe you, but whatever.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'd still not drop everything I was doing to suck his cock.

Strawman.

No you wouldn't suck his cock right there in the store. But you'd be interested. You'd be flattered. And I very, very much doubt you'd just say "meh, nah" and then go about your day like nothing really happened.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd still not drop everything I was doing to suck his cock.

Strawman.

No you wouldn't suck his cock right there in the store. But you'd be interested. You'd be flattered. And I very, very much doubt you'd just say "meh, nah" and then go about your day like nothing really happened.

Can't I be flattered and continue about my day like nothing really happened? Because for women, nothing out of the ordinary really did happen. Okay, other than I saw a celebrity in my local Acme, which would be pretty crazy to begin with... I'd have a cool story to tell that I got hit on by a famous person. But I'm not gonna start packing my bags for Hollywood...

[–]BPremiumMeh 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

naaah, by appropriate places, they mean only allow approaching in certain venues. Those venues will then be swarmed with men of varying attractiveness all the time, since it's the only places one can approach. Which amps up the competition for men while, simultaneously, allows women a convenient one stop shopping experience when they want attention.

[–]OfSpock 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What appropriate venues did there used to be?

[–]IIHotelYorbatreats objects like women 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'll try to explain this as directly as possible.

The only reason we do it is because women respond so well to it, and so consistently. I personally started off just wanting to logically discuss things with girls, make my case, and make a nice offer to them. They simply don't respond to that.

They respond to imposing, presumptive, practically boorish behavior. Yes, practically ALL women. Busy, mousey librarian types. Old blue hairs. Young blonde bimbo types. Club girls. Girls who work at banks. "Being a dick" gets a big smile and very attentive, friendly treatment out of them.

So shit on the ideas all you want. Shit on the explanation. Call us liars. It doesn't matter who believes it, or what the TRUE reason is for why it actually happens. I could be totally wrong. I don't care if it is really because there are magical elves that live in our noses. It works. So I do it and I encourage guys to do it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'll try to explain this as directly as possible.

The only reason we do it is because women respond so well to it, and so consistently. I personally started off just wanting to logically discuss things with girls, make my case, and make a nice offer to them. They simply don't respond to that.

I don't need your shitty attitude okay? I'm not saying it doesn't work. Attractive behaviors are attractive, duh. But if a woman doesn't want your shit, she's not buying it. End of story. Will some women want your shit and respond to it? Sure. Will every woman you approach? No. No man has a 100% success rate. It's not possible.

[–]IIHotelYorbatreats objects like women 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Here's a great, live example of how game actually works vs the grandstanding and the fearmongering. You say,

I don't need your shitty attitude okay?

So you've responded LESS well than average to what I said ...as I wasn't actually TRYING to bust your balls and get that reaction out of you. This is analogous to a percentage of women who "don't want your shit-" they often just can't RELATE to the thing you just said, instead of being completely closed off from the idea of talking at all.

You don't need 100%, you need to try not to give up on conversations that you don't really need to. Having a 30% success rate is made up of doing 1% better in a lot of different ways.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Here's a great, live example of how game actually works vs the grandstanding and the fearmongering. You say,

I don't need your shitty attitude okay?

So you've responded LESS well than average to what I said ...as I wasn't actually TRYING to bust your balls and get that reaction out of you. This is analogous to a percentage of women who "don't want your shit-" they often just can't RELATE to the thing you just said, instead of being completely closed off from the idea of talking at all.

You don't need 100%, you need to try not to give up on conversations that you don't really need to. Having a 30% success rate is made up of doing 1% better in a lot of different ways.

I think we had a miscommunication... I'm not saying guys should stop approaching women. That's the only way to get women in an meaningful way. However, taking into account the context of the situation would increase or decrease your chances with her. A woman in a club dressed to kill will give you a much better response than the same woman on the subway after a long day at work with headphones on and her nose in her phone. Your attractiveness is more or less irrelevant (once past a certain threshold). OP was trying to make the point that if you are attractive enough, even a woman that's shut down will open up and that's just false.

[–]IIHotelYorbatreats objects like women 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think you're right for the most part, especially about likelihood. But let me run something by you- don't you think that in certain situations you can perk up and be more receptive, like if you got to meet the president/a celebrity? This is similar to the dynamic men should be looking for. Not to just be demanding, but to be the "exception," the indulgence, like a vacation you get up for even though you are tired.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you're right for the most part, especially about likelihood. But let me run something by you- don't you think that in certain situations you can perk up and be more receptive, like if you got to meet the president/a celebrity? This is similar to the dynamic men should be looking for. Not to just be demanding, but to be the "exception," the indulgence, like a vacation you get up for even though you are tired.

I think it's unrealistic for guys to expect girl to perk up for them like they would a celebrity. Because most guys aren't, your just guys... And from a woman's POV, 99% guys are no big deal. Will some girls perk up? Sure, but only if they have made meeting a men a priority.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow do you give shitty advice.

Men should simply approach and pay no attention to whether the woman is being "annoyed" or "interrupted". Men should simply take that chance. If she's attracted, she'll stop and talk no matter what she's doing, where you are, or whatever else is going on.

You're cute. "If it works 1 out of 100 times, doesn't matter, HAD SEX!" You'd reduce all men to rabid dogs chasing women down the street.

This is a skill free, blunt force trauma approach. If you wonder why we blues laugh at you for your lack of social skills, this is why.

[–]Offhisgame 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Keep in mind lewis is a bitter old man in his 50s is it? Frankly he should be banned because his experience is so far gone it serves no relevance to the mostly 20 somethings of PPD. He is a fossil, dust in the wind.

[–][deleted]  (23 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

If I could dress you up in a girl suit

Can't think of anything that would frighten people more.

The real annoyance is the constant scrutiny. The unending appraisal. The perpetual consideration and being the object of someone's appetite.

But only if the men doing the scrutinizing, appraising, considering and whetting appetite are unattractive. If they're attractive, that scrutiny, appraisal and consideration couldn't be more welcome.

[–][deleted]  (17 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

I don't think so. I've never seen a woman turn away an attractive man. They don't always go home with or fuck the guy. But they don't discourage him either. they respond favorably.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 11 points12 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

It really doesn't matter whether or not you've personally witnessed it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Well, yeah it does, because I'm here reporting my experience and observations.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 11 points12 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Sure, but actual real life women are going to have a much more relevant experience in this realm.

[–]BPremiumMeh 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

and they are going to spew whatever squid ink they can to obfuscate that fact hes usually right.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Are you an attractive man who regularly approaches strangers in public? Or a woman? If you're neither of those things, then you lack the necessary personal experience to make a sweeping statement like this.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So you're not open to having your view challenged?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I am. What I'm not open to is being told that my experiences and observations are worthless. They're not.

[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you give equal weight to what other people in this thread are telling you? Because it sounds like you're dismissing everyone else's experiences and observations and telling them they're worthless.

[–]shoup88Report me bitch 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're not worthless, they hold much less weight than those of an actual woman.

[–]wub1234 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The real annoyance is the constant scrutiny. The unending appraisal. The perpetual consideration and being the object of someone's appetite.

I understand, but what you will find is that it is impossible for most men to understand because it is so, so far from our experience!

It is similar to how women on here often assume that if you're socially competent and presentable then you will do okay with woman and get a girlfriend, because that is their experience, forgetting that they themselves are very selective about who they'll date!

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never witness any cold approach of any sort, but I witness men (including me) eye women a lot. But I don't know how these women would know since most of us (men) are invisible. :o

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The perpetual consideration and being the object of someone's appetite.

I kinda like that though. Gives me an ego boost lol

[–]RobotPartsCorp 6 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I have never said I get accosted "every second of every day". That is absurd. I do, however, get harassed in varying degrees every day or every other day because I walk everywhere. The degree varies from being yelled at from a passing car, to something incredibly vulgar being said to me on the sidewalk usually very loudly, to being followed or grabbed. Being followed or grabbed doesn't happen often but it has happened on several occasions.

And yeah, I deal with it, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't work to change that and keep it from happening in the small city I live in. It has nothing to do with not interacting with men I am not attracted to but rather not interacting with sometimes actual scary men.

[–]abicus4343 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm curious, where do u live? This would NEVER happen in my city so I'm actually fascinated by this....im sorry you deal with that btw, that's pretty extreme.

[–]RobotPartsCorp 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I live in Portland, Maine. I think harassment is actually an issue in the city as many of my girlfriends have similar experiences. It ramps up in the spring especially. I also think because I walk everywhere, to and from work, for example, that I just have a lot of exposure. I think it isn't much to do with my looks either just that I have a female form. I have been harassed even when wearing a hoodie while being obviously very sick with the flu.

[–]abicus4343 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

That's just crazy, I can't even picture it, and I would have thought Portland would be one of the places less inclined to that type of thing. I'm in Vancouver and my God, it would be crazy to see or hear of anything like that happening just walking down the street!

Edit: I was thinking Portland, Oregon, which seems like it would be similar to Vancouver in attitudes, I miss-read it. The East coast could be quite different obviously, I've never lived there myself.

[–]RobotPartsCorp 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

haha yep. East-coast Portland. New York has the same issues. Boston as well but not as much (it seemed to me). I don't know if you are a man or woman but my boyfriend never witnessed any of my harassment...it just never happened around him. We finally did an experiment where he trailed a block behind me and I got harassed twice within the span of 2 blocks. It was actually kinda mind-blowing because I didn't expect the experiment to be THAT effective. He of course never doubted me but it is something else to actually SEE that happen. Since that point he says he actually notices it more with other women when he is walking. It is like it opened his eyes a little.

[–]abicus4343 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. I'm a woman and it's not a thing where I am but Canada is different and the west coast for sure. Here women actually miss it sometimes, lol! But I can see it would be really upsetting day in and day out definitely.

[–]RobotPartsCorp 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it is mostly annoying until something worse happens then I remember "oh ya, this is more than just annoying, it is potentially dangerous" but it is more annoying and frustrating than anything else. I gotta wonder about the motivation of these guys because I can't imagine their technique actually works.

[–]abicus4343 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

They don't think it's going to work, it's not about picking up girls, it's just about showing off and looking like the man to their buddies. Also where i live it's predominantly white and Asian, not the most aggressive races out there that's for sure.

[–]RobotPartsCorp 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Where I live it is predominantly white and it is 100% white men who have harassed me. Black men in my city tend to be immigrants and they are always extremely polite. You're absolutely right about it being about showing off to their buddies. It seems to be the loudest ones are in a group.

[–]abicus4343 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, definitely a different culture then, men here don't even notice women as far as we can tell, they stare straight ahead or look at the ground, lol, it's kind if pathetic actually. Two totally different extremes.

[–]TheChemist158Non-Feminist Blue Pill Woman 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just do not believe that women are getting hit on literally every single minute they spend in public.

I also call bullshit on that. Maybe if they ate gorgeous and in a bar alone they'll get a lot of attention. But I don't believe they get that much attention walking down the street.

Women wanted a free and open society where they can do and be and say anything they want, anytime they want, anywhere they want. Women wanted the right to fuck hot men whenever, wherever, and under whatever circumstances they wanted. Women are just going to have to deal with being hit on, even by men they're not attracted to. Put on your big girl britches and suck it up. This is the world you wanted; this is the world you shall have.

Women can't do anything they want, obviously. We as a society became more lax with sexual values. And it's not like it was just women who wanted this. Men also like the liberal attitudes. But the angry tone aside, yes. Men get to approach women in public. We do not have the right to never be spoken unless we want it. You can be annoyed is you want, but you aren't a victim if a guy asks you out.

She could be in the middle of taking care of her child with a broken bone, and if Dr. McDreamy approaches, she'll forget the kid and give the Dr. her digits.

This is one of those times when I'm pretty sure you are using a hyperbole, but it is only obfuscating your point.

Do you literally believe a mother would ignore her seriously injured child in such a case? I am going to guess no. And this brings up the question of where you think that line actually is. Sure, women are more inclinded to be open to attractive guy. They bring more of a draw, offer more. But the circumstance isn't trivial either. If you are approached in the middle of something, you are inclined to be annoyed. The more important the thing, the greater annoyance.

Imagine a few different cases. You are quickly reading some important document for either school or work. You need to get the gist of it in the next 30 minutes. A guy interrupts you. Imagine case A, where he asks for directions. You would probably feel some annoyance for the distraction. Now imagine that he isn't asking for directions. He instead offers you a free $20 gift card. You might feel a bit annoyed still, but probably also pretty happy that he bothered you since you got sonething nice out of it. Now imagine you weren't reading those documents, but just waiting for the bus when you got that gift card. You probably wouldn't be annoyed at all, just happy.

Women do have shit to do and they don't always want to be hit on. But at least if he is hot you get the good feeling of a hot person showing interest in you.

[–]abicus4343 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

What world is this????!!!!!! Where are these mythical men that harass, accost, hit on or even talk to women in public?? I'm super curious because where I'm from men don't even make eye contact with women, they don't even see women they are too busy with their online porn and being terrified of rejection. All the women in my city talk about is that there are no men, no one complains about being harassed, lol!!! That would be hilarious....

[–]GavinSkulldrinker 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women only say that in Facebook posts, which they type while their phone buzzes and beeps with texts from dudes.

[–]abicus4343 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ya, that's what I figure, the whole thing is a bunch of braggsplaining..."im so hot i cant leave the house without being accosted and harassed!! Boohoo! Poor me being so hot!" It's sad to because it's negating the actual situation of assault when it's warranted. Cant cry wolf forever and then expect to be taken seriously.

[–]LSTW1234 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Where are you from?

[–]abicus4343 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Vancouver.

[–]ifelsedowhilePurple Pill Man-boy the way Glenn Miller played 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

you mean you've never seen all those straight cis White men harassing women all the time?

[–]abicus4343 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not where I live anyway.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with your title and lots of your post, including the inevitability of approaches to women they do not want.

However, I do not agree with this

Which brings me to my next point. It's not about the circumstances, time or place . It's about the attractiveness of the guy doing the approaching. If she's attracted, she'll drop whatever she's doing and respond. She could be in the middle of taking care of her child with a broken bone, and if Dr. McDreamy approaches, she'll forget the kid and give the Dr. her digits. If she's not attracted, then your very presence is annoying her.

Women have such an extraordinary abundance mentality that they do not feel compelled to drop everything merely for an attractive guy. They can get what they want done, then get desired male attention at a later time on their terms.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

First, though I've posted on this under another name, there's this claim by women that they're being accosted, assaulted, and otherwise harassed every single minute of every single day they walk out their doors. Every minute in public is a gauntlet of men trying to get in their pants. All the time. Everywhere.

Sorry (not sorry) to double post but I just had a realization concerning this, separate from my other thought.

Most women, after a certain point in her maturation, learns to assume every guy that talks to them (beyond the bare essential for life and work) is hitting on them. It isn't necessarily true, but it's one of those handy maxims that prevents awkward and/or hurtful situations down the road. It encourages women to avoid contact with men they are not attracted to, as to not encourage those mens' favor, but also so that other more attractive men don't think she's already spoken for.

Keeping that in mind, that's why when women talk about, it certainly does look like a gauntlet!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Most women, after a certain point in her maturation, learns to assume every guy that talks to them (beyond the bare essential for life and work) is hitting on them

Good. Glad to hear it. Because it's by and large true. Men don't interact with women they're not attracted to.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why I don't interact with women at all unless I have to due to work duties or whatever. I'm happily married, so interacting with a woman means essentially to me that I would sleep with her if I could, which I have no desire to do at all as I'm strictly monogamous.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah, most men who approach me just say hi. just virtually never happens if im with my husband. it happens more if I have my hair down, no glasses, no winter coat. im not stupid.

[–]Nullberri 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As explained by Chris Rock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90qpDg5y7Lo

[–]PMmeareasontoliveNeither casual nor marriage 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I can agree to a certain extent. But I believe that women actually do encounter threatening or potentially threatening behavior from men more often than you are accounting for. Not from men they aren't attracted to , but from actual borderline psychos. You omit those experiences entirely. Not every minute of every day, but often enough to make it seem weird out there.

Your premise that this is naturally part of what comes with freedom that women desired is simply absurd.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It isn't absurd. Women wanted absolute freedom. They have to deal with the sickos, weirdos and uglos of life.

[–]Five_Decadesstopped caring 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women do get harassed, but I also agree it is annoying when women want everything to go their way. You can't dress like a slut then be upset because men who aren't wealthy or handsome are hitting on you too.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol I used to go to warehouse raves when I was 15 and didn't fear any of those things. Feminists be crazy.

And even now, in my regular day to day activities, I don't fear any of those things. It's not like it's the end of the world when some unattractive guy hits on me, or catcalls, or whatever. It's annoying more than anything, not something to be "fearful of".

edit: it's also slightly awkward when guys you have no interest in try to hit on you, but thats about it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So, you, like every other woman, thinks the world is creepy, weird, and or strange. Got it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Um what? No I don't. In social settings I'll talk to lots of guys that I'm not interested in. I don't think they're "creepy or weird", they're just not guys that I would date (plus I'm in an LTR).

But when I'm at the grocery store after a day of working and going to the gym, it can be annoying when I just wanna buy something and leave. How did you infer that I think all guys are "creepy and weird"?

[–]bluepingrezBlueple Pill Woman 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

It's really both.

In our evolutionary past, males that were unattractive posed a reproductive threat to women because that man could potentially force himself on her. And considering the huge amount of reproductive investment women make, getting pregnant by the wrong guy = very very bad.

Yes, we live in modern times and no, none of this is conscious and needless to say this is not at all to say that getting assaulted by a hot guy is ever a good thing either: rape is rape no matter what. Just that there might be evolutionary influences for the apprehension we feel around unattractive guys and that the two are not completely separated.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

If it is really t he case that women are so deathly afraid of bodily harm, then why do so many women encourage men based on their attractiveness? If they're so afraid of getting hurt, why do they go home with Chad after barely knowing him?

[–]bluepingrezBlueple Pill Woman 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Because by definition when it's desired/consensual it's not assault/harassment/rape etc.

(Hot) guy she wants to talk to approaching her to talk to her = not an annoyance/threatening (because she wants the interaction)

(Unattractive/ugly) guy she does not want to talk to approaching her to talk = an annoyance/possibly threatening for the reasons I listed (because the interaction is not desired).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

So an unattractive/ugly guy's approach is de facto annoying/harassing?

So it IS based on the attractiveness of the man, not other circumstances, correct?

[–]bluepingrezBlueple Pill Woman 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's de facto annoying/harassing if she does not want to interact with him.

The harassment is caused by him ignoring her not wanting his interaction, not by his being ugly.

Yes, him being hot or not will obviously influence her own desire to interact/not interact with him but ultimately it's the creep ignoring her lack of desire and approaching her regardless that makes him a creep, not his being ugly.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Then all she has to do is say "not interested" and go about her day.

He leaves.

Problem solved.

But she doesn't get to make a federal case out of it, call the cops, or anything else. It isn't even harassment. It's not a crime, a basis for a criminal complaint, a basis for a lawsuit, or even a basis to get pissed off, to approach a woman who doesn't want to be approached. You don't know she doesn't want to be approached until you approach.

[–]abicus4343 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's insane, I just can't see that happening in reality, it seems more like an internet boogey man this idea that all women are terrified of being assaulted and raped and are reporting simple situations like a guy hitting on her as harassment. I feel like this is just an excuse guys use to justify being too scared to talk to girls. It's easier to say "I'm not going to hit on girls because I'm not interested in getting charged for assault!" then admiting that maybe they are a bit pussified....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, yeah, guys being terrified of talking to girls is a real problem.

[–]BPremiumMeh 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

well you're the ones that made us this fearful. dont reject and things would be fine

[–]abicus4343 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't reject?! Um, ok then. Lol!

[–]abicus4343 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its also the attractiveness of the man 'TO HER' trp has this idea that all women are only attracted to 20% of men but that just isnt true, women are attracted to 'THEIR' idea of an alpha and they cant know that until she can see how he acts with her, if men never approach or make their interest known then yes, only the Chads will stand out. Rejection is part of the risk.

[–]abicus4343 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I'm a woman and I agree with you. Men in my city are sooooo terrified of being labelled creepy or being rejected they don't even make eye contact with women let alone pose any sort of threat, that would be laughable actually. I am curious what it's like in different areas though, I live in one of those extremely liberal feminist west coast cities. Men here are so pussified that foreigners actually come here as an easy sex destination town cause the women are so thirsty, lol!

[–]UhKhatWhen I am formulated, sprawling on a pin 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'll try to 'change your view' but your emphatic wording tells me you're likely not very open to that...

I think some people are open to being talked to and some aren't. I've been told I'm an attractive person (female), and I've tried to engage with people (both male and female) in casual situations and been shrugged off - usually politely. Sometimes people return my smiles and chit chat, sometimes they look at me like I'm a mosquito...It happens. Some people just don't like strangers talking to them unless they are openly advertising their interest in being talked to... So many people today are just staring at their phones and/or listening to music that it seems we're all shut off...Many people are insecure or shy...Some people are just anti-social, discourteous assholes...I don't think it has a lot to do with the attractiveness of the person talking to you. I mean, sure, if it's a really unkempt person who smells or something, then I'm likely to be a bit dismissive - but they don't have to be freaking "Chad" for me to be polite! I was raised to be polite to people - maybe that's dying out (I am over 30!) - but if someone talks to me, no matter who they are, I will respond in kind. If I reject a man's advances it's not necessarily because he's unattractive - maybe I'm not in the headspace to be 'chatted up', maybe I am hung up on another man, maybe I just want some alone time and don't want to talk. Is it 'wrong' for a man, no matter what he looks like, to talk to me? No. Is it okay for me to politely reject him if I don't want to talk? Absolutely, and I don't need to explain my reasons as if I owe him something!

A guy (in my age group) got on a train with me recently, he seemed a bit jittery and the first time he talked to me (about the train's destination) while we were on the platform, I was a bit dismissive because I had a heavy bag to get on and wasn't looking forward to the journey - a flight the next day, etc. But he helped me get my bag on and started to talk again, I thought I'd go with it and talk to him. He ended up pouring out a very sad story about getting drunk and high on cocaine the previous night, traveling over an hour by train to a casino, losing a lot of money and his phone and then waking up with a stranger kicking him on a public toilet floor...He was terrified of how he was going to come clean with his wife...We chatted until he got off the train and it was a really interesting conversation. This guy was obviously acting edgy and not exactly clean (bathroom floor!) but I talked to him and actually enjoyed it. Was I attracted to him? No. Was he coming on to me? A little bit (a few comments about liking women a bit heavier, loving my accent and that I don't wear a lot of make up, etc) but nothing overt. He just wanted to chat. I know I'm not the norm - I do tend to be the sort of person people randomly pour their hearts out too - but I also know I can't be the only one. That's why comments like yours get to me - this lumping everyone (and not everyone - every woman) in together into black and white. If I did that, I never would have talked to that guy, but I'm really glad I did. The guy was not "Chad" as many on here would define him: skinny, not well dressed, nondescript face and 'Arab-looking' (his words, he thought it would put me off and it is obviously a negative bias he suffers with). To me he was a friendly, intelligent person who was a bit troubled and wanted to chat...If he'd come up to me in a dark, quiet street at night, I would have behaved differently - but that's just common sense!

How many women have you tried talking to like this? Is this your own experience you're drawing these conclusions from, or the reddit-sphere of so-called 'incels' who seem to be practicing a pessimistic, self-fulfilling prophecy of 'I'm not "Chad" so women won't like me, there's no point in trying'?

I'm starting to think some of you guys on here are so biased because of an experience or reading of other men's experiences that suddenly the whole female gender has become an enemy and has no individuality or nuance. We're just here to ruin you because that's why we exist, for you...it's simply not the case.

Sorry if that was harsh or unsympathetic, I'm a bit depressed after reading this self-pitying, women-hating, rage-blinded post: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/66aket/cmv_the_civil_threat_women_pose_to_men_now/

My advice (not that you're asking for it, I know) is to build your confidence in some way, don't think too much about what to say to women and don't only be polite and chatty with women you want to bang! You might be surprised how many women will talk to you and how much that will boost your confidence in turn, even if it doesn't lead to instant pussy....

[–]GavinSkulldrinker 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the genuine story.

It's really easy as a guy to feel like you're being treated as an annoyance who's occupying space that could have been occupied by a hotter dude. Or feel like you're thought of first as a potential rapist.

I've lost count of how many times women have given me fake names. Not fake numbers, fake names. It's...Not fun.

[–]UhKhatWhen I am formulated, sprawling on a pin 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's really awful and I'm sorry. I can imagine that being the case as many women do have a fear of assault from a stranger - even though statistically it's highly unlikely the man approaching you is a Ted Bundy! There are so many tv shows, movies and books that focus on women being victims of predatory men that I think it has made some women paranoid....I mean logically you know it's unlikely, but after you've seen slasher movies, crime shows, etc, being approached by a guy (especially when alone) you might have an illogical 'what if?' reaction. We hear often that women shouldn't walk alone at night/wear revealing clothing/get drunk/trust strange men...But you're right, women are probably more likely to trust a good looking guy over an ugly one - but I stress ugly here, not just an average joe. Going back to Bundy for some reason, lots of women trusted him because he was average/good looking, well groomed and articulate - you'd be less likely to trust an 'ugly' guy with obviously poor social skills....But I haven't met many men I would describe as truly ugly....

Anyway, I don't know how to combat that, but I do believe genuinely that women feel afraid of men at times and not just 'you're not hot, go away'! But the women giving you fake names are awful - I wish I could speak to my fellow women and tell them to think more about their behavior with men and stop treating them like sex pests and more like people....And tell them to be honest above all!

[–]GavinSkulldrinker 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The irony is that a woman is WAY more likely to be assaulted by her boyfriend than a random dude, just like child abduction.

This is gonna sound niceguyish of me, but I know way too many women (young, attractive women with options and no kids), who have been with and stayed with physically abusive men. In one particular example, a co-worker I was friends with wound up using me as an instrument to make her (abusive) boyfriend jealous. I had gone into life-coach mode and encouraging her to ditch him, trying to get her socializing with other people. I wound up getting infatuated, she'd vent at me about her problems, said she was afraid of being alone if she left him, I'd keep trying to just get her to socialize with me outside of work, but her life was always conveniently chaotic. Then she started calling in sick on days I wasn't working, and just ragequit on the job when her car broke down. Suddenly never heard from her again, apart from gross #soinlove makeout selfies posted on Facebook.

My read of the situation was that a woman would rather be physically struck by a guy than get lunch with me.

So I really don't buy that women's #1 priority is don't get attacked.

[–]UhKhatWhen I am formulated, sprawling on a pin 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the woman you were kind and incredibly supportive to is a moron for staying with an abusive man when she had someone really trying their best to help her. But hey, you can't change people that don't want to be changed...

I think sometimes, and this is coming from my very feminine mind, that many women do like to 'stay put' when they have found a man they expect to spend their life with and even if he turns out to be a bad person (whether to her or to others) she will rationalise it and want to 'stand by him'. I also think many women believe their love will cure someone of their bad behaviour, bad habits or mental illness. That's certainly the reason I have been attracted to the 'anti-hero' or flat out villain in fiction - it's the idea of taking a perhaps brutal man and healing the supposed source of his rage with love, affection and understanding...It's naive and probably rarely works, but I do think lots of women live in that hope. Some women are also emotionally unable to move on from an abusive relationship because they have low self worth and think they don't deserve any better and won't find anyone else. Maybe to them, sadly, living with an abusive man is better than being alone....

I've never really been around violent men, so I can't speak from experience.

[–]fetchyminx 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't understand what this post is about

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

k

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Imagine that.

Things aren't always black and white.

[–]ShuuyiW2 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much, though the only point I'd add is that women often feel unsafe around men who give them unwanted attention. The corresponding situation of unattractive women hitting on men rarely make men feel in danger.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

why do they feel unsafe? Is it reasonable to assume some guy is going to beat them up for rejecting them? Sure it's happened that a few, very few, men do this. But it's not common.

Women getting unwanted attention is a fact of life, like rejection is for men.

[–]Archwinger 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not exactly "attention from men they're not attracted to" that women "fear".

To an extent, women like the attention, as long as it's all positive and doesn't have any drawbacks.

They'll trade texts with orbiters all day. It will mean the world to some loser guy who thinks he has a shot, when really, she was just spending 5 minutes going through her contact list at the bus stop trolling for validation.

But when a woman is in public and is seen talking to a loser guy, she believes that other women, and attractive men, will judge her for it. Allowing that guy to talk to her unrejected is an admission that he is in her league.

So she needs to reject the guy to save face. But rejecting a guy is confrontational and uncomfortable and awkward. Women really, really hate confrontation and social awkwardness. So when this loser guy bumbles about, hanging around her, sitting too close, and talking on and on about nothing, and can't even work up the courage to actually make his move, and she just sits there, waiting and waiting for him to do it so she can reject him, looking away, giving one word answers, acting annoyed, hoping he takes the hint, trying to make excuses to leave, but he never takes the hint and just keeps sitting next to her talking -- It's just really uncomfortable for a girl. Women hate social awkwardness.

[–]despisedlove2Reality Pill Tradcon RP 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why make women the centerpiece of your life?

She gets hit on or not, what is it to you? No man is ever improved through romantic acquaintance with a woman.

[–][deleted]  (28 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

cant disagree with that. The "getting hit on all the time every day everywhere" is low rent prole white trash ghetto behavior...

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]sunkindonut149Blue Pill Mouse 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes it's class based and disproportionately affects blue collar areas. The HollaBack organization was started by working class women of color native to these areas.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]hyperrrealTolerable Shitposter[M] 0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

Reminder not to post racially-charged content here. Thanks.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 4 points5 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

ok but really, it is an actual US city fact that is hyper-relevant to the post. you really cannot honestly discuss the cat-calling phenomenon without mentioning it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

bringing up any racial conversation is "racially charged". we can't have honest conversations about a lot of the topics discussed in PPD because of this rule :(

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

since you are black all of your posts are racially charged--BANNED

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL yeah

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lawdy lawdy, didn't I tell you to get the laundry off the line?

[–]hyperrrealTolerable Shitposter[M] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

we can't have honest conversations about a lot of the topics discussed in PPD because of this rule :(

This is unfair. The rule is merely a response to how the community reacts. If the community reacted differently, the rule would not exist.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

it is intellectually dishonest for us to debate issues affecting dating and relationships in 2017 in the United States without discussing race.

[–]hyperrrealTolerable Shitposter 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Then users should learn how to have those conversations without flaming each other and the mod team.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

there is a big difference between someone saying "niggers should be wiped out, ew" and saying "Black women suffer in the SMP because of having robust features and in the international SMP, robust features are women are considered not attractive to the largest swath of men"

I don't think people go for the former, and if they did, sure. Ban their threads.

[–]hyperrreal7 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

In this very thread, there was already a comment which reads:

Just come out and say "niggers" you know both you and Atlas want to.

It took less than 30 minutes for the dialogue to devolve to that point.

The reality is that there are ton of both race-trolls and "race-warriors" on all sides, and as soon as we start allowing that content, it devolves into flame wars, and furthermore begins to take over PPD. Which is not a sub about racial-issues, and never was.

We tried to draw a line between appropriate content about race and race-baiting, and were flamed and insulted by users no matter how we handled it. The only solution was a blanket ban. It's not like we love banning content, the userbase forces us into extreme positions because everyone is so unreasonable and paranoid.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately u/hyperrreal is right, it is impossible to have such discussions, not just on PPD but anywhere right now without literally everyone getting triggered. We're in the eye of the storm of the triggerocalypse, society has gotten to the point where racial discussions are just impossible and we're all worse off for it, including PPD which does in fact need some racial discussion to be complete.

[–]hyperrrealTolerable Shitposter[M] 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

The mod team was/is put in an impossible position w/regards to content about race. We're stuck between the /r/Hapas, /r/aznidentity crowd on the one side, and the alt-right peeps on the other.

No matter what we did, someone was complaining and making a big deal about how policies regarding race were being enforced. And people were seizing every opportunity possible to flame-bait the other side. So there's a blanket ban now.

Long story short, yes there are racial issues that become relevant on PPD at points. Unfortunately, the community here cannot handle the topic.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

you know i 100% understand that but at some point a differentiation has to be made between just race baiting and stating actual facts, for discussion

[–]hyperrrealTolerable Shitposter[M] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

From a policy standpoint, I don't think it's possible. We tried to make it work, and the community's response was to continually bitch at us for being bias, unfair, "compromised", cucks, bigots, etc.

The only clear brightline is whether content is racially-charged at all. Once you cross that line, there's no agreement on what constitutes a fact vs. bait.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only clear brightline is whether content is racially-charged at all. Once you cross that line, there's no agreement on what constitutes a fact vs. bait.

fuck, so true

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Auntie Atlas u know I <3 u but u also know full well u will bait the shit out of literally everyone with ur race realism. It's in ur genes, boom theres some meta race realism 4 u

RIP OBSIDIAN

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

i am innocent

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Innocent, of what?

Couldn't find the scene of the Unforgiven scene I wanted to link on youtube

[–]writingtochucow 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

MRW you handle us.

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[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

First, though I've posted on this under another name, there's this claim by women that they're being accosted, assaulted, and otherwise harassed every single minute of every single day they walk out their doors. Every minute in public is a gauntlet of men trying to get in their pants. All the time. Everywhere.

This is disingenuous. Nobody claimed that. What women here did claim was that they feared battery and harassment, which happens with depressing regularity in urban areas.

Where I live now, I never ever ever see it happening. Ever. When I lived in DC, it happened so often that I only really remember the one instance of battery and a few particularly disturbing instances of harassment.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Countdown 1...2.. 3... when we disagree with anything the OP says, we lack empathy or are willfully obtuse.

[–]DarkLord0chinChin 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

cough

Countdown should be 3.. 2.. 1..

[–]IamTheWalkingMenu1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

😒

[–]DarkLord0chinChin 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can't emotion math away!

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That may be, but OP was mischaracterizing his previous post.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty sure I remember the post in question.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The person with the most REEEEEEE going on is the OP.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

So just because you accept something as a reality of life means you can't ever complain about it? I hope you never complain about traffic, or the weather, or having to stand in line at the post office, or your car breaking down, or any of the other tiny annoyances of life that we all know we're going to have to deal with at some point.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I hope he never complains about women marrying guys who are not as attractive as the JHU lacrosse player they banged one night junior year.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He would never.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If I had banged a random jock in university it would have been a dude in crew. Rowers have amazing bodies. But I did not cus random banging was not my style.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Water polo FTW. I once had a minion who had been captain of the West Point water polo team and even five years after his graduation, that dude was smokin'.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't understand why the TRP Bros think we bang everybody we find attractive, it is like they think we are guys.

[–]writingtochucow 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This OP is, as another poster has said, disingenuous. OP is not open to to the 'CMV' part of it. Women in this thread (as in the other exchanges that have been had with Lewis by many female posters here) are flat out saying he's wrong. How else would one go about changing someone's mind?

"Women don't fear X."

"Actually, I fear X."

That's it, done. Unless you don't believe what these women are saying. In which case, you aren't open to having your mind changed and the post should be removed.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think every man should approach if they are interested in a woman, although I don't know if you should cross the line of doing it while she's taking care of her kid, or doing something that could be dangerous if she is distracted by you. But I also think that every man needs to know when to realize that a woman is not interested. There are too many overly persistent men out there who don't take no for an answer. I do think that there's a happy medium between "leave women alone unless they make the first glance/move" and "persevere despite her initial rejection of you."

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only a problem for attractive women.

[–]Elite-hacks 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You cant just be an attractive girl, you need to have a celebrity type personality for people to hit on you constantly. I know a girl who can seduce any guy OR GIRL, literally can turn most girls bi when she tries. She also gets hit on more than anyone I've ever met. It's insane but she is a super intelligent and rich woman who deserves all the attention.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well tbh it's because the men who do those things usually come from low education low income backgrounds and it is a socially awkward behavior so we assume you are socially awkward.

If Channing Tatum said "ayye girl" to me outside of a gas Station no matter how hot he was I'd most likely still assume he sold drugs/served time in jail and had a seedy upbringing so I'd get in my car and lock the door.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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