It's hypocritical of women to force men to adhere to traditional gender roles while being unwilling to stick to theirs

wub1234 · 2017-04-07T16:45:03+00:00

We have thread after thread on here where people make assertions like this.

Men have to strong, tall, powerful, dominant, handsome, in shape, rich or making a large six figure salary, have social status, be wanted and preselected by other women, intelligent, confident and never wavering in said confidence, never show any signs of weakness and have to be a total badass that takes no shit from anyone. Men have to be all of that and more or else.

This is just an absurd exaggeration. Do you walk around in everyday life with your eyes open? Men who are nothing like that mate all the time. If you had to be anything like that to date successfully, I wouldn't bother going out on any dates, it would be pointless.

Dating is somewhat more challenging for men than women, in my opinion, but you don't have to be some super-male to attract a girlfriend.

sublimemongrel · 2017-04-07T16:45:28+00:00

Biased question.

"CMV: people shouldn't do blatantly awful BS"

meh613 · 2017-04-07T17:52:14+00:00

You need to stop giving a damn about what a woman wants and focus primarily on what you want.

Jex117 · 2017-04-07T17:38:35+00:00

No one is forcing men to do anything. If you don't want to adhere to masculine ideals, the police aren't going to show up at your door to throw you in jail, you just won't get as much sexual opportunity.

but it's a problem to say you want a woman that's under 30, not a slut, not a single mother, not fat or overweight, who's attractive, knows how to cook, clean and not nag, and fucks you more than once a month

Attractive men can and do have standards like these, and no one bats an eye. But, low value men have nothing to offer, so they can't ask for this much.

cxj · 2017-04-07T16:46:35+00:00

I'm selling a car. it's OK... 2006 Camry in decent condition. nothing fancy but it'll get you where you need to go. I'd value it at about $6500, at least that's what I reasonably expect to get for it. I'm willing to go down to $5500 if I haven't gotten any offers on it in a week. I'm not looking to make a fortune, I just want someone to take it off my hands and hopefully get good use out of it like I did.

I put it up for sale and I'm immediately flooded with 20 buyers. a lot of them are willing to pay $6500 for it on the spot, but some of them are offering me $8,000. $10,000. then $12,000. obviously I take the best offer, I sell the car for $12,000.

well, now the people who expected to buy it for $6500 are sending me angry messages saying if I was going to sell a car for $12,000 I could have at least had something newer and higher end so I hadn't wasted their time. they figured that even if $6500 wasn't the final agreed upon price, a 2006 Camry would definitely be in their price range. I mean... that car's an ugly piece of shit anyway, they were doing me a favor by even considering it. what they don't seem to understand is that I was just responding to the market. people wanted my car-- warts and all-- so badly that they were willing to pay double what I was asking. it's not my fault, it's supply and demand and I just happened to get lucky. and you know what? now I'm motivated to take it further... why not go out and buy a 20-year-old clunker and sell it for $10,000? even if no one will give me that I'll probably easily make what I thought I'd make on the first car.

this is how dating sites are. men are thirsty and desperate, they're throwing themselves at any girl who will swipe right and competing with each other for those girls' attention. women don't want sex as much-- at least not the kind of casual sex that these men are after-- so they have no reason to settle. someone has to make it worth their time for them to have sex with him, because the opportunity casual sex with some average guy isn't going to be enough to motivate her to turn off netflix. men don't have to settle either, but for many it's their only source of validation. for very attractive women, just sitting on tinder and getting those adoring messages is validation enough... no need to actually meet these guys.

if you were in my place selling a car, would you take the $6500? if you had beautiful women throwing themselves at you all day would you go out of your way to romance the fat chick? of course not. and again, it wouldn't be your fault... you're responding to the abundance of higher value women around you. the fact that the fat girl is lonely isn't your problem.

Now, in the real world it's not like that as much. Most people meet their partners through friend groups, so they already know something about that person and don't evaluate them as critically. you know each other, you know you're cool, you give it a shot. but online? for people who don't have social groups where that's an option? it's a feeding frenzy.

sellers market.

[deleted] · 2017-04-07T16:31:59+00:00

People are hypocrites. More at 11.

darkmoon09 · 2017-04-07T17:02:53+00:00

Men have to strong, tall, powerful, dominant, handsome, in shape, rich or making a large six figure salary, have social status, be wanted and preselected by other women, intelligent, confident and never wavering in said confidence, never show any signs of weakness and have to be a total badass that takes no shit from anyone. Men have to be all of that and more or else.

You need to stop listening to what women say they want and you need to stop listening to little girls telling you they all want Christian Gray and won't settle for less.

They're all so cute and silly, and they also say cute and silly stuff, just don't take it word for word!!!

whichbladeN · 2017-04-07T16:34:38+00:00

How do women force men into gender roles? Men force themselves into the roles because they fear how they will be perceived by other men with the alternative. The manosphere is enforcing male gender roles and stomping out anything else.

Lonny_zone · 2017-04-07T19:31:45+00:00

Basically, men still want to fuck women despite all this. Women aren't quite as easy to please.

wtknight · 2017-04-07T17:06:34+00:00

It's not hypocritical, because women aren't telling men that they have to desire non-traditional women. If a man doesn't want to date a non-traditional woman, then don't, and find a woman who is more traditional.

Ercole-- · 2017-04-07T16:58:41+00:00

Men have to strong, tall, powerful, dominant, handsome, in shape, rich or making a large six figure salary, have social status, be wanted and preselected by other women, intelligent, confident and never wavering in said confidence, never show any signs of weakness and have to be a total badass that takes no shit from anyone. Men have to be all of that and more or else.

Try being strong, powerful, dominant, intelligent, in shape, having a work ethic, and being sociable. Don't waver from it and you'll be preselected by women and you'll even be allowed to show vulnerability so long as you've earned it and you aren't just whining about things that other men she knows are capable of overcoming. You'll even have your pick of women who are worth these demands.

Nobody's forcing you to give all this to a woman for free.

SetConsumes · 2017-04-07T16:39:52+00:00

You're right that it is hypocritical, but they can't do anything about it, manly men just make them feel so good.

Idk who's lazier women or men, but women sure do try to do as little as possible.

Although feminism and women working allows for men to be weaker and lazier too to some degree. Lose lose.

godfatherchimp · 2017-04-07T19:06:56+00:00

That's not a male gender role, thats what women are biologically attracted to. You can't control attraction.

Anarchkitty · 2017-04-07T18:17:12+00:00

If you don't want to follow traditional gender roles, DON'T.

You need to learn to be strong enough to stand up for yourself once in awhile. And quit blaming women for what they are out are not doing. They have nothing to do with your life.

"Butbutbutbut... WOMEN!!" FFS, so much whining. Do what you want.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2017-04-07T17:23:26+00:00

absolutely

fuck gender roles, no one should follow them

trail22 · 2017-04-07T18:26:59+00:00

I think you are overstating a lot of it, but I do think men are suffering. The suicide rate for men is rising. I think that is a lot of ways because of the destruction of gender roles for women but not men.

Men have historically depended on their wives more for emotional support, then vice versa. That's why a lot of men I believe tend to be happier when they are married then men. The destruction of gender roles I think has taken away a lot of the emotional support they had histrionically. Happy wife happy life seems more prevelant then a women should take care of her man.

Im not saying its always the case, but I feel like this is becoming more the case. Obviously not all women are like this, but there are still women who dont see the hypocrisy when they expect men take on the traditional male role in dating. They expect men to be as ambitious as them, ask them out and generally pursue them; yet still complain how women are expected to do all the cooking and cleaning and put on makeup every day.

winterrider · 2017-04-07T20:59:28+00:00

I agree. It is hypocritical. Men are attracted to what we are attracted to and women are attracted to who and what they are attracted to. All the social justice campaigns in the world won't change these things. Women need to stop shaming men over what we find attractive and men should accept the fact that women are attracted to ruch, muscular hot guys. Men need to work towards being these extremely masculine, dominant, rich and hot guys.

Temperfuelmma · 2017-04-07T17:18:29+00:00

Part of the reason is how little standards men have for women.

For a man a woman is simply a series of holes, while for a woman he is a breadwinner, fun guy, intelligent, capable, social, protective, strong, dominant etc etc

If a woman don't adhere to traditional gender roles she still has her series of holes whereas if a man doesn't adhere to traditional gender roles he basically loses his purpose.

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[deleted] · 2017-04-07T17:22:28+00:00

It is hypocritical, but I have come to the realization that people react to it in ways that are polarized, just any political agenda. The one element I do like about it is that it raises the bar little bit when it comes to dealing with people in modern day social situations. The people that are openly saying that they wish not to be shamed for being fat, slutty, or whatever it is change the way we communicate with each other and be more careful about what we say to each other.

On the contrary, my stance is that it hasn't changed very much in terms of what people think and feel. It has become more of a "vote with your dick" situation. Every overweight unattractive woman knows what it is like to be ignored and passed over for a skinnier girl. They know they are not nearly as attractive in general public as their 20.5 BMI colleagues. There is nothing you need to say to anyone about fat-shaming ever, they don't already know themselves.

leceddit · 2017-04-07T19:44:20+00:00

Men have to strong, tall, powerful, dominant, handsome, in shape, rich or making a large six figure salary, have social status, be wanted and preselected by other women, intelligent, confident

Sounds like good things to aspire to as a man. I'm glad these are all things I can work towards. If you don't like being masculine you can always become a trap

phantasic79 · 2017-04-07T22:54:35+00:00

What is the deal with everyone trying to control their BF/GF? I just want to get together hang out have fun and if I'm lucky she'll want to touch my weiner. After that I don't care if she makes me a sandwich(which is a really nice thing), wants to cuddle or exits out the window like a ninja. What is with all the expectations everyone has? Let people do what they want to do.

PBRScagsquad · 2017-04-07T23:24:37+00:00

This could be easily solved if men on average stopped being so fucking thirsty and actually had some standards. Supposing that average women have it easier than men this is probably one of the major reasons why. If they suddenly were faced with a market of choosier men, assuming those men had something to offer and the top tier men were now totally inaccessible to them then in this scenario we would see more of an effort. However, in the scenario you describe this is not the case therefore there is no incentive for women to put in the extra work if they can get what they want anyway. TL;DR: Contain your thirst a little better lads! It's for your own good!

DashneDK2 · 2017-04-08T00:51:43+00:00

== Results from bdsmtest.org ==

87% Vanilla

20% Non-monogamist

17% Dominant

I guess there's just not enough pervert in me to be a real red-blooded rp, that's why I'm purple :(

reepbot · 2017-04-08T03:57:06+00:00

If you had changed the word "force" to "shame" then I would have agreed with you.

badnews4u · 2017-04-08T04:40:15+00:00

Alpha females vs beta female. The alphas who understand this stuff win big

honeypuppy · 2017-04-08T12:15:28+00:00

Few people have a problem if you have certain expectations of the women you date. Just don't be a vocal judgemental asshole about the women who don't meet your standards.

JackGetsIt · 2017-04-08T14:48:25+00:00

This is why feminism is often referred to as a female supremacy movement.

EliteSpartanRanger · 2017-04-09T03:02:47+00:00

Women don't force men to adhere to gender roles. They pick guys they are attracted to, but the guys are free to do what they want. They're also free to not date non-traditional women.

tossa01 · 2017-07-07T17:32:06+00:00

Not showing signs of weakness is the most important one

Lisa_NY22 · 2017-04-08T11:25:24+00:00

Men have to strong, tall, powerful, dominant, handsome, in shape

You don't have to be any of these things you can be weak, short, submissive ugly, loser, etc etc etc.

The secret services won't come knocking at your door during the night because you're unattractive to women.

You're free in being a loser: women are also free to not be attracted to you, men are free to not see you as someone commanding respect. You're free in being a loser and people are free to see you as such.

Feminism is about liberating people (women AND men) from forced traditional gender roles. It's not about forcing people to be attracted to you or respecting you because you don't have that right. You seem to be confusing hypocritical (which there are none in this case) with things that you are not entitled to.

bala-key · 2017-04-08T09:00:21+00:00

OP, you're demanding some sort of fairness from the SMV where it's mostly just a function of biological firmware and supply and demand.

You're trying to shame women as a group for being the way they are. It can't and won't change anything.

You know the rules of the game, you either play or not. Bitching about it makes no sense.

monkeysinmypocket · 2017-04-08T12:20:28+00:00

TIL being under 30 was a part of the traditional female gender role...

Guess that means I'm free! Woo-hoo! You can stick your traditional gender role up your arse!

(I've never demanded men be anything or conform to any type role. I also don't feel entitled to them sexually causing me to get all bent out of shape when it turns out most of them don't want to fuck me. That's where normal people and the red pilled depart company.)