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Question For WomenGirls, why is it on me to escalate? (self.PurplePillDebate)

submitted by ardasyenden

I’m an 18 year old dude, and apparently my best friend is angry at me because I didn’t realize that she wanted to be my girlfriend. Oopsie

Like, I’m sorry, and I love you as a friend and companion, but I never thought or will think of you that way.

But this all got me thinking;

Why is it on me to realize and then bring our relationship to the next level? If you’re interested, why not just say so?

Why is that your attraction hinges on me flirting with you? Why don’t you flirt with me?

Yadda yadda, you get the point. thats it bros

edit: I’ve had a lot of fun reading the responses, this seems like an entertaining sub. thx bois

I don’t think metalmod likes me lol


[–]GlaceMarill111 points112 points  (38 children) | Copy Link

Because it's easier when other people do the work for you.

[–]goneaway2thewind21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean I appreciate the honesty but still what the actual fuck

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol can relate

[–]honeybooboo501 point2 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

because women will bear your stupid kids, they will go on birthcontrol for you, they do the hair, the makeup and clothes that costs a ton so you can tindermatch and they will pick the gifts for your moms stupid christmasdinner. And probably cook and do laundry because im not so sure you all are so skilled at that. Beside that they are physically more vulnerable, have less reproductive rights, more prone to rape, emotionally more sensitive and economically fragile. They already compromised and have jobs now and are self sustainable, so why should they suddenly do your job while they are learned that you are hardwired hunters that only know how to appreciate something if you had to fight hard to get it and that if you want something, you will go for it. Your only job is to approach them first and make them feel more safe, physically and emotionally, they need to know that they arent in clumzy hands if their boss fires them because they got pregnant, if that is too difficult of a task then id rather lose that guy. If we get equal in the things i mentioned first, id love to initiate the conversation, and chase you and be all about equality. But until we are not equal in these points, im cool brah, one cold mofo for that shit. But yeah, i do have to agree that its easier when people do the work for you.

[–]GlaceMarill6 points7 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

I'm a woman and I don't care about this trad stuff. Find a boyfriend who isn't a manchild and he will pick the gifts for his own mother.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

yeah seriously cooking and laundry are basic things. I am surprised though that a lot of people don’t know how to cook. My mom taught me and I always thought t was the same for everyone else

[–]honeybooboo500 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

im surprised too, but nowadays food can be ordered and thats what people that cant cook do
many people do claim they can cook, or that they are willing to, but thats a whole different level than if you had a mom that thought you that
and keeping up with the house tasks at the same time, its not so simple to plan all that with a job if you were never trained to do it, imagine how slow that will go :')

[–]GlaceMarill0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's all quite simple, but manbabies have wives who even wipe their asses.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

why would they marry a manchild in the first place anyway

[–]GlaceMarill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're usually older women who value traditional gender roles. Those gender roles say a man doesn't know how to take care of himself and that he needs a woman to do it for him.

[–]honeybooboo50-2 points-1 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

please discuss the entirety of the post without cherrypicking, the whole post is about not picking a manchild indeed and prefering someone that owns up his role in this world because there is no reason for them to complain

[–]GlaceMarill2 points3 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

What? My point is that all this "real men behave like this and that" talk is hilarious when you have to wipe their asses.

[–]honeybooboo50-1 points0 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

what do you mean whipe their asses, if anything im saying that you shouldnt

[–]GlaceMarill2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

You said cook, do laundry, pick gifts. The bar is set very low when all a man has to do is approach you and then you go mommy mode and make sure he's properly fed and clothed. I'd rather approach a man who can take care of himself than be approached by another man who expects me to be his fuckmaid.

"Hunter men" don't approach you and make you feel safe. When men were actual hunters they'd rape you and then take you as a sex slave if you were lucky. If you weren't they'd kill you when they were done. Romanticizing this sort of thing is beyond stupid.

[–]honeybooboo50-1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

i think you need to re-read my post

[–]GlaceMarill3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

You made it sound like a transaction. The guy approaches and then you mommy him. I reject that, I don't mommy manbabies.

[–]honeybooboo500 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

you think i mommy him because i would be the person that births his babies or takes birthcontrol? you lack a sense of context and keep reacting on one specific line, while ignoring the rest of it but like i said, i never bought gifts for anyones mom, my point is that chasing men is not what they are accumulated to and mostly ends badly with a lack of enthousiasm from his side, but feel free to find it out through trial and error, who knows it works out for you but i dont expect much from men that are this passive and i dont think those are people you will end up being happy with

[–]wellhellotherefellas3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your only job is to approach them first and make them feel more safe, physically and emotionally

Oh Jesus. "Your only job." Yeah, sorry honeybooboo50, but men also have feelings. We aren't emotionless apes who do everything in life like we're robotically ticking off a checklist.

[–]LeftEntry1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

thanks for articulating this feeling

[–]rightmeow6 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy Link

it's also because if a man doesn't escalate, then he either:

  1. isn't interested enough in you
  2. is not confident enough to ask you out

both of those are deal breakers. women shouldn't chase after men imo.

[–]bonusfruit5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Valid until the metoo era. Male escalation is essentially a crime so only women should chase

[–]honeybooboo50-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

dont make it everyones problem that you dont understand consent

[–]GlaceMarill1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

As long as you don't bitch about some man who didn't approach you.

[–]honeybooboo501 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

nobody should miss that man, i dont let these men mold me into something they want me to be for their disorted convenience, and i get approached by many men
you shouldnt do things out of desperation, if you start chasing men... girl fuckboys tell you that so they have to do even less effort, men and even fuckboys like challenges and not easy bait, so dont cry if you try

[–]honeybooboo500 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly!

[–]yall_dont_read10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This isn't your fault of course, but it's because of the messaging women (and men) are inundated with since birth:

  • Pursuing a man means you're desperate
  • A man who DOESN'T pursue you doesn't want you for anything serious (but will use you for sex if you make it available to him)
  • Gender myths e.g "men are natural hunters", etc.

Again, not your fault. But in a world where these messages are shoved down most people's throats, they are kind of embedded in our subconscious.

[–]87AudreyHorne8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean it's not. It's simple. You want something, you have to do it. If she wants you bad enough shell do it. If you want her bad enough you'll do it (unless its not a big deal for either of you). The consequence of not doing it is that the other side wont do it either and you wont have it - she will have to live with it and so will you. You either take it upon you or play the game of guessing reasons for her inaction, neither of which will particularly help you in practice.

[–][deleted] 77 points78 points  (74 children) | Copy Link

Read your other post. Your female friend did escalate by cuddling with you, asking you to the prom, holding your hand, texting in the early morning hours and telling you that you were cute.

So your real question is "why don't the hot girls treat me like my female friend".

This is so funny in a not funny ironic sort of way.

I imagine your next post will be that all the girls want Chad, never mentioning this girl who did everything but say "fuck me".

[–]NeedingAdvice8652 points53 points  (43 children) | Copy Link

Did you read that he is only 18?

You do realize that plenty of guys are clueless at that age...not everybody begins out fucking every body in the neighborhood at 12yo...…

I think he is just starting to understand female dating behavior.....I have related several times in the past that because of my intense focus on a D1 baseball offer in my teens, I was extremely clueless when I got to college about the exact things like this dude. Things like a girl asking me to lunch, running after me outside clubs to make sure I got her number, hell even one particularly attractive girl who kept asking me to "tutor" her in Economics but during which we seldom studied but ending up chatting on the bed for constantly.....until her roommate pulled me aside and said.."you know she is a Summa and Econ Major right. Erin, don't need any damn tutoring, you dolt".....It is just being clueless which a boys have to learn...tons of us just think it is normal relations not some grand ploy to get fucked without having to ask.

The weird part is the more "attractive" you are, often the more just "friendly" it seems because most women act that way toward you.....particularly if you have been doing other things than chasing every pair of panties your entire teenage years.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (42 children) | Copy Link

Yes. I read this post and the other post. Even his friends told him she was crushing.

If he would have found her attractive he would have gone for it based on her clear signals.

[–]xanacop33 points34 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

clear signals.

You overestimate men.

Go to /r/AskMen and it is universally agreed that men want women to be fricken clear about what they want.

Let's be honest, women don't want to be clear because if the men are not actually interested in them, they can just save face and not feel rejected.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

I really don’t think it’s about the rejection. I think women are somehow biologically wired for the 50 shades of grey trope where the guy heavily pursues us. I mean, it makes sense - in all animals, the male pursues.

At least for me personally, there is just something icky about being direct or blunt with a guy. It’s like the whole seduction / mystery is immediately ruined.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]30dirtyfingers 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy Link

If I want to communicate something to someone and they don't understand, isn't the burden on me to help them understand by further expressing and explaining? I mean, IF I did want to be understood.

Girls suck at communication.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Tone down the circle-jerk please.

[–]30dirtyfingers1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Huh? I don't understand what u mean.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Huh? I don't understand what u mean.

Circle-jerking is usually defined in this sub as two or more users agreeing without making any additional points. If you have any further questions about the rules, please read the sidebar and wiki or feel free to message modmail.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I was thinking purely for the early stages of a relationship. Agreed that you shouldn't be relying on "hinting" in marriage.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not IME. Men like uncertainty. I don't mean playing total hard to get but the guy should definitely be initiating the first few dates etc IMO, the girl can be pleasant and receptive.

[–]ricar426humans are sh*tty8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Pardon my French, but f*ck the mystery. She's intimate enough to be clear about it.

[–]wellhellotherefellas3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

f*ck

Going all out, I see.

[–]ricar426humans are sh*tty4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

oh ze irony

[–]Hemingwinehouse19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

All animals get sex without permission too, so women should love non-consensual sex by your logic. Give me a break with your sis-science

[–]rus9384Misanthrope4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

women should love non-consensual sex by your logic.

Rape fantasies.

[–]allweknowisD4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Which are still consensual when played out lol

[–]rus9384Misanthrope4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

in all animals, the male pursues.

False. In many birds females approach. But that probably is besides the point.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

but if you don’t go after him, someone else will, yes?

same logic for men applies for women here, I think.

If a girl is being passive, why should I go for that instead of just going for a girl who’s actively pursuing me?

If I was some horny dude then I would’ve hooked up with my chem lab partner last week, because she directly let me know she wanted to smash. Nothing of the sort came from my friend passively trying to get me to notice her.

[–]brokegradstudent_932 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If he’s that delusional I don’t want to be with him anyway...the dance and intrigue is the fun part of dating. And there are plenty of men who do understand the dance and do it well

[–]wellhellotherefellas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Screw that.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

so it’s not really about the guy himself, it’s about getting him? That sounds weird to me. Isn’t it more important to get the person you’re interested in (this is long term) than it is to play around dating wise (this is short term)? That’s temporary.

also what do you mean by delusional

[–]Jathrowaway972 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If the long term isn’t getting the signals he’s most likely not interested. You yourself admitted that you’re not into your friend so things would’ve ended up the same whether she was blunt or passive. Guys tend to pick up on passive green lights when they actually like the girl.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I really don’t think it’s about the rejection.

I agree. I think it's about plausible deniability. See, e.g., "it just happened".

[–]ayeayefitlikeBlueish-Purple Pill Woman[🍰] 6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Except I’m not sure they actually do when it happens. I’ve always been quite happy asking a guy out, and most of the time they get weird or flustered about it. It’s worth it for the guys that are chill and react well (generally confident and laidback ones) and acts as a good screening tool, but whilst men say they want women to approach my experience has certainly been that they aren’t in any way prepared for it.

[–]Broadside48614 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because we don't assume to get approached. It's like you're unemployed and suddenly a company calls you out of nowhere.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like this analogy

[–]ShadrixianPurple Pill7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

they aren’t in any way prepared for it.

Thats because we're not. We're never prepared for anything.

[–]NeedingAdvice866 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You understand the reason, right?

Because guys by in large are not used to girls doing it....so they don't know exactly how to act\behave.

It is as the other poster said....for guys that get little of that type of approach, it is the same reaction that you would get if someone walked up and ask if they would like a million dollars...their first reaction is bewilderment and looking around to see if it is some prank youtube show or an inside joke for which they are the mark...LOL.

But in much the same reaction to the million, once they understand it would be like "hell yeah"...if they are attracted, of course, which is a risk to be taken.

[–]ayeayefitlikeBlueish-Purple Pill Woman[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah I totally get it. But it doesn’t surprise me that women might be immediately put off trying again after the reactions I’ve experienced!

Obviously you will get a certain % rejections, but it was more than that for sure.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have lost virginity with a girl who made advances and I was not really confident in how I behave until I knew a person for some time.

I would say I'd like of girls asked me out.

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

gone for it

The girl should've "gone for it", instead of relying on the guy to read her mind and her "signals"

[–]WavesAcross1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If he would have found her attractive he would have gone for it based on her clear signals.

I think you are underestimating how dumb men can be when it comes to this stuff. We can find women attractive band still miss a "clear" signal.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do you mean to tell me that a girl who asks you to the prom, holds hands with you, cuddles and play wrestles with you, texts you all the time, and tells you ther you are cute is not giving IOI indications?

Seriously.

[–]woyspawn2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

In the context of a "friendship". If the guy was frienzoned he'd receive an 'I like you but not like that' with all the same IOIs.

And even those clear IOIs, can be missed by some inexperienced / low awareness men.

(I had a shameful experience of having an aquitance sit on my lap at a nightclub, and only realize something wasn't right until after she stood up and walked away )

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm from a different age group. Her behavior would have been picked up on by the nerdiest guy when I was his age. Even the gay guys would have more than likely picked up on this being an IOI.

[–]wellhellotherefellas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a lot more different from whenever your age group is.

[–]dval92White Anglo-Saxon Hebrew2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

gone for it

And risk his freedoms and rights as a citizen because he made the mistake of interpreting a woman's signals improperly?

Nah, fuck that noise.

[–]wellhellotherefellas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup. Not the easiest job in the world to just assume correctly of everyone. I can easily see why a guy wouldn't assume those things to be guaranteed interest as a guy myself.

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why didn't she directly say that she had feelings for him?

Girls can do ALL of those things with guys, and STILL claim they are "just a friend".

[–]allweknowisD4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I fail to believe anyone in this situation is too dense to tell she’s into him with all those signs

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 8 points9 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

bro that’s a lot of unwarranted anger

I don’t care if you’re hot or not lol I may still not be attracted to you. All my guy friends said my best friend was a hottie and cute or whatever but I didn’t really care. She’s my friend, I don’t think of her like that

I dunno man maybe I’m clueless or whatever but I think of her as a close friend, like a sister, so I didn’t think how we acted towards each other was her escalating at the time

why not just tell me, ya know? That seems like the easiest form of escalation. Just say so?

[–]BotThatSaysBro16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

bro 😎💪

[–]yaseedog will hunt6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

good bot bro

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

BRO 😫💅

[–]Jathrowaway971 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Would it have made a difference if she did?

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

not in this case

[–]Jathrowaway972 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So then there’s not really any problems with what she did besides getting mad at the rejection. That’s not ok, she’s not entitled to you. Her passively sending signals is nbd though because it’s a good way to feel you out.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

it’s not that I have a problem, it’s that I’m confused

But I understand now

tbh I think I’ll just take the girl route here, if some girl is interested enough to pursue me, then that’s nice, otherwise I’ll just wait for the next one. I don’t wanna waste my time I guess

[–]Jathrowaway970 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough 🤗

[–]Trad_MetalMod_Wife 1 points [recovered]  (16 children) | Copy Link

Clueless, and dishonest, would be correct.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 4 points5 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

what how am I dishonest

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

No girl tells her brother he is cute and then asks him to the prom unless she doesn't mind being known as an incestuous loser for the remaining of her days.

You knew.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

yeah but I thought she jokingly called me that, we’d make fun of and comment on each other’s looks all the time

We went to prom as friends

I have a younger sister and we act similarly towards each other, playful, close, etc., it didn’t seem so different. Besides the being called cute i suppose

I didn’t know lol otherwise I wouldn’t be here

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater16 points17 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You know this sounds a lot like how girls talk about their friendzone orbiters after it explodes. A lot of them claim ignorance in a similar way.

Not claiming that you or they are lying. Just noticing the similarities.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What does orbiter mean?

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Usually someone who has unstated sexual interest and hangs around the object of their desire without being honest.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

shit does that mean my friend was an orbiter

that sounds so weird

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Read your whole other post. Right now your hamster is running the wheel so hard.

Also, if your treat your sister this way and she is going through puberty or past, stop. It is creepy AF.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

she’s 17, we treat each other fine I’d say. Neither of us are tryna smash haha. We play games and watch movies and spend time together, doesn’t seem weird to me

I’m not lying lol. Why would I? I only realized she may be interested in me after others and finally herself pointed it

also...

quit being an asshole. I’m not lying, and you losers agreeing with her for whatever reason (probably stemming from insecurity - cuz guess what - you’re not that important, you’re not a catch, you’re not a priority - I don’t care for how you give signs to me or whatever, you are not important enough or valuable enough that I would spend my time picking up on them and taking action.) need to quit being so braindead. The fact that the only way you can avoid this is by thinking I’m lying is pathetic; just how inflated are your senses of self worth?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You guys are too old to be wrestling and touchy feely unless your sister is a manly looking lesbian.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

haha she’s not lesbian but you got the manly lookin part right

we don’t really wrestle it’s more of a shoving and throwing thing really,

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They are not actual relatives...

[–]SlashCo800 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Read your other post. Your female friend did escalate by cuddling with you, asking you to the prom, holding your hand, texting in the early morning hours and telling you that you were cute.

And then he makes a move and she calls him a creep and spreads the word that he harassed her. Welcome to <current year>.

[–]findingfemininitysend birb memes41 points42 points  (97 children) | Copy Link

Because escalating and leading the relationship is a masculine quality and women like masculine women

If I have to lead the relationship I might as well date another woman

[–]eboy4hire16 points17 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

leading the relationship is a masculine quality and women like masculine women

Oh, so the answer is to get a bisexual gf to do all the work for you? ;)

If I have to lead the relationship I might as well date another woman

Wait isn't that what you just said? /s

[–]findingfemininitysend birb memes26 points27 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

You joke but no one making the first move is a legit problem among women who date women

[–]rus9384Misanthrope10 points11 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

I really doubt it's because of norms (c'mon, dating people of the same sex is as rebellious as asking them out). Do women fear rejection that much?

[–]skinnedRobot8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It is probably one of the major downsides to dating women as a woman. When my older sister was experimenting with tinder, she never actually ended up hooking up with anyone. She matched with plenty of women, but barely anyone sent the first message, so there was no conversation.

They were all just too passive.

That's my main fear about entering the OLD world. I can start a conversation, but it's stressing when I don't get an equal amount of effort back.

[–]lIllIlllIl 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Welcome to the world of dating women. It's fucking awful.

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. I keep saying that straight men are stuck with women and it's kinda true. Lets get real all that shit about not getting an equal effort is the default male experience.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought there would be more aggressive women in the lesbian communities. I've had pretty much 4 close lesbian friends, 2 of them were basically emulating male behaviour and aggressively flirted with women.

[–]Here4thebeer3232No Pill3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Based on conversations with bi women, women take rejection harder from other women then they do from men.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wonder why is that. Women are the choosy sex.

[–]cuckspace 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Great question. Why are women so afraid of rejection in this one area of life? They're certainly not afraid of rejection when applying for a job or a promotion. It's especially weird when the majority of men can't be choosers and play the numbers game with every woman who's not hideous. This strategy could lead to women pairing with sub par men while missing opportunities with hotter men they didn't express their interest to.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But we're talking about lesbians.

[–]Jathrowaway970 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

In adulthood it’s not so much fear of rejection but more so paranoia about looking desperate or easy. You don’t want the guy to think you’re coming on too strong or that he doesn’t have to put any effort in with you.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You don’t want the guy to think you’re coming on too strong or that he doesn’t have to put any effort in with you.

But we were talking about women asking women out.

[–]Jathrowaway970 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My mistake. With wlw in OLD I’m not sure why one wouldn’t make the first move. IRL though it’s understandable, unless there’s some glaringly obvious signs you never know for sure if a woman is into other women or not. You can always ask but depending on the situation that may not be feasible.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

You gotta start off looking desperate until you acquire enough game to know how not to come off that way.

But that takes practice

[–]Jathrowaway971 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Idk how well that works for women. When I first started working on my self confidence I would just talk to people and sometimes ask for their socials. Men almost all just give their information to me. Even if they have 0 interest in me. Women were more of a challenge. My assumption is men aren’t used to being approached by women so they get flustered and don’t know how to react when it happens. However this wouldn’t help a woman who is trying to avoid coming off desperate, you wouldn’t know how to tweak/tailor your approach with men.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Idk how well that works for women.

It works exactly the same.

When I first started working on my self confidence I would just talk to people and sometimes ask for their socials. Men almost all just give their information to me. Even if they have 0 interest in me.

All you are describing is exactly what can happen when talking to and approaching women. You adapt to the person based on their reactions during conversation.

My assumption is men aren’t used to being approached by women so they get flustered and don’t know how to react when it happens.

Likely, although I’ve known women to get similarly flustered. We humans all react similarly when we’re surprised. Especially not so attractive women often are unprepared.

However this wouldn’t help a woman who is trying to avoid coming off desperate, you wouldn’t know how to tweak/tailor your approach with men.

You learn after experiencing some rejection on what works and what doesn’t. I’ve been successfully gamed by a couple women but it’s rare AF

[–]Jathrowaway971 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

With the men I’ve approached they don’t outright reject me that’s why I’m not sure how I’d tailor approaching them irl or advising another woman on how to do so. When I approach women there’s various signs throughout the encounters that I’ve picked up on and I know how to approach them now without it seeming like I’m hitting on them or I’m someone suspicious. So now if I meet a girl I want to be friends with approaching them goes well. With men pretty much all of them will happily talk with me and give me their info. I make sure to read their body language and everything to decipher if they’re uncomfortable, but besides initial shock/being taken off guard there’s nothing. Idk though maybe I just can’t read men.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

With the men I’ve approached they don’t outright reject me that’s why I’m not sure how I’d tailor approaching them irl or advising another woman on how to do so.

That’s part of the game lol. Sometimes you won’t get outright rejection or enthusiastic acceptance. That’s the way it be.

Idk though maybe I just can’t read men.

Probably. It’s harder to relate to opposite sex therefore harder to pickup on non-verbals.

[–]LotBuilder1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can imagine that being an awkward and painful dance in the beginning.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is what feminism looks like when it is supposedly helping men, folks.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 7 points8 points  (62 children) | Copy Link

yeah but if you’re not interested why not just say so? the guy can still lead from there if he reciprocates your feelings, right

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

There's this thing guys do called passive reciprocation. If he's not giving us a hell yes, it's a hell no in terms of if he really likes us. If we're leading, showing interest first, sure he'll accept it, but that doesn't mean he really likes us. Men are biologically hunters. They go after what they want.

[–]Helmet_Icicle9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Any woman who isn't interested enough to be proactive in actualizing her own happiness isn't one worth having.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah I see

can’t say I’ve ever found a girl worth time pursuing so that’s too bad I guess

[–]EezayMoral Animal5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You don't really have to. It's not about pursuing, but really just about showing her that you are into her. You can do this by body language (distance, posture, facial expressions) or by subcommunicating it (sexualising the conversation). Important is that you do it early, and with the right balance of subletly and obviousness. You will find that the conversation usually goes very differently from this point, girls often reciprocate the flirting once they notice that you find them attractive and are willing to escalate the relationship.

View it more this way: Women invite you passively to escalate, but the burden of pushing the interaction is mostly on you. You can go ahead and just accept that, but you will feel better if you instead embrace it as part of your masculine role.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love it how women so reliably seek to pigeonhole men in "biological roles" while fighting desperately to free themselves from the same shackles.

Equality, except when it's not convenient, it never fails.

[–]WavesAcross4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If he's not giving us a hell yes, it's a hell no in terms of if he really likes us.

???? No. This is a rationalization on your part. Men don't, as a monolith work like this. I would agree if you said the kind of men you were attracted to did, but I'd not true of men in general.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This exactly describes the experience of approaching women.

There is no difference when genders are swapped

[–]Bntt892 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How can a women say this? This is literally the exact same line of thinking used to keep women as baby makers. Women give birth therefore they should stay at home and provide for the children. Do you see how the thinking is exactly the same? You're using a descriptive claim( the way it is) to make a normative claim( the way it ought to be) unless you've solved some age old philosophical dilemma than dont use this. Just say you want men to engage because you find it attractive dont come with this hunter bullshit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, I love chasing. I'd love it if I could win a man's heart via romantic gestures and do all the work. Men don't respond well to that, that's how you get strung along and at MOST become a starter wife.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men are biologically hunters

maybe I should have brought a rifle which I don't have, then? maybe that's why I never suceeded at this shit, maybe I was so unintimidating even a deer would have been like "hey bro whasup"

[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey, it actually would make you a better hunter if deers didn't run away. Unless they decided to attack you, of course.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And women are biological fishers, they wait their prey to be all about them before they pull the string.

[–]findingfemininitysend birb memes5 points6 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Women do say so but it's with IOIs, flirting, etc. It's up to a guy to actually ask her out.

Also most women (especially young, attractive ones) have options so if guy A doesn't make a move on her then guys B, C and D will. Why would she take a chance on a passive man when there's more assertive ones?

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

what’s a lOls

[–]findingfemininitysend birb memes9 points10 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Indicators of interest. Her cuddling with you is a really really obvious one (like so obvious I'm honestly wondering if you're a troll or asexual right now)

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 4 points5 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

I’m not trolling, I swear, and I’m not asexual, I still find some girls cute

yeah the snuggling happens but it’s only when we watched movies and I assumed that’s what you do with close friends

I do the same with some other dudes and my cousins so maybe that’s why I didn’t pick up on it?

[–]findingfemininitysend birb memes17 points18 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Yeah you Gen Zs are fucking weird. The only people I'd snuggle with are family and my SO

[–]SunflowerBurst1 in 12 Americans is unaware that the bird is the word8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m older than that and I had a friend who told me she did that with our guy friend, “we do what friends do” and I was like wtf is that, she’s like “you know, lie on each other and stuff” like seriously what the hell? I never got the memo and I find that super weird.

[–]findingfemininitysend birb memes3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd feel weird snuggling with my close female friends and that's generally more socially acceptable for women

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Haha lol you think that’s weird a bunch of my boys act ironically gay and jokingly kiss each other. Then there’s the nut taps too

I agree, it’s weird but it’s fun

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Then there’s the nut taps too

I knew a basketball coach who did all this 'jokingly' stuff with the boys... one time he got down on his knees in the changing room, and the boys 'jokingly' flapped their dicks all over his face. they had a good ol' time. until he once messaged one of these boys to send him nudes... then shit got serious

but it's not like these boys cared. they laughed even more. once they held one of their buddies down in the after-training shower and covered his balls with a thick layer of muscle-cooling cream. he tried washing it with water but it only made it worse. they laughed and laughed

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

As long as they all said no homo

(but seriously what the fuck)

[–]Morristron20993 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Girls used to do that to me in my teens and early 20s, too.

It took me a long time to realize that's boyfriend shit. In the same way that casual sex is fine but probably shouldn't be handed out indiscriminately, I don't think boyfriend shit should be handed out indiscriminately. It'll make you catch feelings a lot of the time while she's just using you for your body. I'm not saying never do it, but if you aren't careful it'll fuck with your brain.

[–]wellhellotherefellas0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

yeah the snuggling happens but it’s only when we watched movies and I assumed that’s what you do with close friends

For real? I need to get myself some close friends.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most people aren’t like this even with close friends I think, it’s just my friends have no sense of boundaries and act super gay as a joke, but then since we knew we weren’t gay, we were fine with getting all close with each other anyway.

And my cousins I’m super close with, I’ve known em my whole life.

[–]wellhellotherefellas0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, I think you threw a lot of people off (including myself) when you mentioned cuddling one-on-one. That sounds very much like relationship-level stuff.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

well with her it was one on one but that’s cuz we’re best friends

[–]SunflowerBurst1 in 12 Americans is unaware that the bird is the word0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You snuggle with close friends?

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

ye whenever we have a get together and we’re watching movies like a horror flick, we usually share blankets and get close up with each other

[–]SunflowerBurst1 in 12 Americans is unaware that the bird is the word4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol she asked you to prom and snuggles you alone in the dark—in girl language that’s holding up a giant sign that says “I like you!”

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah I never studied and fell asleep in girl language class a lot so that might be why I didn’t realize

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too3 points4 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

Women prefer indirect communication over direct.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women5 points6 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

women prefer you to get their indirect communication, but they prefer your direct communication to still be somewhat veiled in mistery

[–]lIllIlllIl 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

You misspelled misery.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

xD

[–]30dirtyfingers0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lmao

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Close. They want you to be indirect too.

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

not in my experience

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

So when you start hitting on a girl, you just say "I want to fuck you"?

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

no because that's not what I actually think when I start hitting on a girl. even though I may actually want to fuck her

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

What

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

the thought doesn't cross my mind so I don't say it

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Correction: children and cowards prefer indirect communication over direct.

[–]Esk1mOz4mb1kFormer Nice Chad2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Most women are cowards then.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ayup. Adults learn how to use their freaking words when they want something.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Always funny to see morality brought into something as simple as communication styles. Autistic people must be the most moral of all, since they lack the ability to indirectly communicate altogether.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It must take some serious work to reach the level of immaturity it takes to make such idiotic diagnoses based on such an uneducated gross oversimplification of this issue.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're right. Mature adults know everything that isn't done the way you do it is bad.

[–]LeJacquelopeHaving a son is child abuse2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well when women whine about how men don't respond to their nonverbal IOIs then it's their fucking fault. Can't bitch about equality and then feel entitled to take the chickenshit way through life and then get mad when it doesn't work out.

Also: men aren't fucking telepaths.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bitches bitch. Doesn't mean you have to be one too.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women prefer no communication over indirect communication.

Least effort possible.

That's no excuse.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't understand why you think of it as a fault. It's just an alternative communication style. You just have to learn how to do it.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, so in the end, the girl has no boyfriend because she's not socially developed yet.

[–]XtoDoubtMen Do It Too1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can't have it both ways. Men can't have the authority in a relationship if we don't also take responsibility.

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

But YOU are the interested one and YOU have a goal. Maybe you can do the first move and he does the next moves?

[–]30dirtyfingers9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But she did make the first move. She looked at him with "ask me out" in her eyes and he didn't see it. I'm pretty sure she mentioned another guy that was interested in her, to motivate him to ask her out also.
And last but not least, she wore his favorite color lipstick and eye shadow so that when he looked at her, he would profess his undying love for her.

What do u mean she didn't make the first move?

[–]maplehobo 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure she mentioned another guy that was interested in her, to motivate him to ask her out also.

I can never fucking understand why the hell women think this is a good move

[–]30dirtyfingers2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they go into competition mode just because they saw a good looking girl standing next to u on a crowded train, so they think we operate like that too. And to be fair, that works on plenty of guys, just not the ones they actually want because odds are, those guys have enough options to not act out of fear (or scarcity mentality, if u will).

I jest, but honestly, it's think they got it from another woman, in a magazine, online or in real life.

[–]wellhellotherefellas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn, it's all clear now

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (54 children) | Copy Link

Because men who make the first move are attractive, and passive men are not.

If a man doesn't pursue he's either passive or disinterested, and neither of those are any good. Why would a woman pursue a man if she doesn't have to?

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ5 points6 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Because men who make the first move are attractive, and passive men are not.

But he is attractive since she's attracted. So why does he need to be even more attractive by doing the first move?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

So she's attracted to him, sends out some signals, and if he doesn't act on that he comes across as passive and becomes less attractive to her

[–]Eastuss༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ8 points9 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

sends out some signals

IDK for OP, but I've had female friends who had crushes on me and sent absolutely zero signals.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Well that's their problem. OP's girl was complimenting him, cuddling him, texting him til 3am, she even invited him to prom lol.

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Which still could mean nothing.

She could've easily said "I have feelings for you, I would like to date".

[–]SelfUnmadeManruminator0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

those behaviors never mean nothing

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

It only means nothing if you have a social deficiency

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Or, if the woman is overly friendly and only sees you as a friend.

You can pretend that this never happens to fit your worldview.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Then what's the loss? She didn't want to fuck you anyway

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's exactly my point.

Women are arguing that "if a woman does these things, she CLEARLY has feelings for you and you're stupid not to see that", when that isn't always the case. Being direct and risking your fragile ego through rejection is the only guaranteed way to get your true feelings across.

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man5 points6 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

This sounds stupid as hell.

"I like a guy but I will like him less if he doesn't pick up on my signals that I think show that I like him"

That's essentially what you're describing.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much, except add "pick up my signals and act on them"

We want men who are socially fluent and assertive, and waiting for him to make that move is just simple vetting. If he doesn't make the move he fails the test and we look elsewhere.

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

So women are willing to let go of a man they have feelings for because he doesn't "act on" something he may not even interpret as romantic feelings?

Sounds fickle to me.

[–]SelfUnmadeManruminator4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's just woman logic.

From a man's perspective, it makes little sense.

From a woman's perspective, she just doesn't want seed from a man that will give her weak, passive offspring. If she does the initiating, she doesn't get to vet men for assertiveness. So, she gets real close and acts all coy in order to figure out if he has the chutzpah to go for it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Because if he doesn't pick up on it and act on it, that demonstrates unattractive traits.

Imagine you had a crush on a girl, but after knowing her for a while you find out something unattractive about her. Maybe she's bald and wears a wig, or she's a compulsive liar. Would directing your attention elsewhere be fickle?

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Because if he doesn't pick up on it and act on it, that demonstrates unattractive traits.

How exactly? That he couldn't read your mind? That he can't discern a potential friendly action with a romantic one?

Imagine you had a crush on a girl, but after knowing her for a while you find out something unattractive about her. Maybe she's bald and wears a wig, or she's a compulsive liar. Would directing your attention elsewhere be fickle?

Those are incomparable, because those are actual TANGIBLE things I can see and verify. You baking a cake for a guy or giving compliments are things that can easily be seen as friendly, and aren't tangible indicators of interest.

A man not being able to read your mind and "misinterpreting" something that can easily be seen as "friendly" isn't the same as a verifiable unattractive trait.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ok carry on then. All the men I've ever dated have been able to do this just fine. Women will continue to select for men who are socially adept and assertive, no matter how much you complain about it.

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not "complaining", just pointing out how childish women who think like you sound. It's nothing wrong with having a fragile ego that would be shattered by the potential rejection that comes with being direct, and always wanting the ball in your court when it comes to dating.

At least be honest about it.

[–]finch22004 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can understand if a woman wants a man that can identify social cues. I think the issue arises when a woman berates the man for failing to pick up on them. If you send signals, they don’t act on them, and you lose attraction, fine. But by not being direct you kind of forfeit the right to complain about them not expressing romantic interest in you.

[–]NeedingAdvice863 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That is sort of delusional.....reading womanese has NOTHING to do with assertative-ness or positive relationship traits.....

But would explain how so many women end up in shitty relationships and with partners that they can barely stand..he sucks as a human being and relationships but at least he reads signals.....and it makes logical sense and clearly explains why so many women end up with fuckbois pumping and dumping them repeatedly since of the numerous guys around them on any given day, it would be the fuckbois who are obsessed with finding the next piece to smash who would have spent hours, days and years teaching themselves to "read signals" the quickiest.

Good luck with that....I doubt it will turn out as you wish.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It turned out great. I happily dated great men for 10 years and am now married to one. All of them could read womanese just fine :)

[–]AbyssalTenacityPurple Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But there are various reasons why a guy might not nake a move beyond not being not being socially fluent lol

[–]brokegradstudent_930 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Plenty of men DO pick up on these signals. It’s pretty easy to find a man that will chase you. I like flirting but if a man doesn’t make the actual move, I’m gonna move on. I don’t want to make the first move. I want to feel desired. That’s what most women want.

[–]finch22003 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Which is perfectly fine, but I think the issue is that there are many instances where the woman doesn’t move on and instead becomes angry towards the man for failing to notice their signals, which seems a bit unfair in my opinion.

[–]wellhellotherefellas2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why don't you make the actual move yourself? You can do that and still feel desired.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

oh ok I see

but then why would women be interested in men that haven’t shown any interest towards them in the first place? or does interest only begin when they’re pursued?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

No we can be interested in them, but if they don't chase us we'll just assume he's not interested/too passive and move on to someone else

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

is female interest easy to come by then? And isn’t it kind of a waste to move on from someone you’re interested in just because there’ll be another?

If you’re not interested enough in someone to pursue them, honestly it sounds like you’re just settling

btw why is your flair a bunny

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean easy to come by? It's not a waste because we specifically want a guy who isn't passive. If he doesn't make a move we'll usually lose interest.

My old username here was whitebunny so I keep the little bun emoji

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

well I mean for me I’ve only been interested in one girl my life, that was a year and a bit ago, I haven’t found a girl like that again since

My best friend was apparently flirting with me for a year.

But it sounds like you guys just move on and get interested in another guy right after.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah aren't you like 18 though? You'll develop more crushes as life goes on

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

My old username here was whitebunny so I keep the little bun emoji

I thought it was a hamster (pun non intended)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hahaha 🐹

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

How could you confuse a bunny and a hamster?

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

huh I guess the teeth and cheeks stuffed with full of something?

[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

But ears?

[–]wtffellificationWe all love women0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

mutation?

[–]ricar426humans are sh*tty2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

But you didn't addressed the question. Why can't his friend (or women, for that matter) be direct?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

They can, they just don't want to and don't need to. It's a bad idea from a vetting perspective, because we want men who are not passive. If we wait and he doesn't make a move, it just tells us he's not worth chasing anyway

[–]ricar426humans are sh*tty0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Why?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Because men who make the first move are attractive, and passive men are not.

If a man doesn't pursue he's either passive or disinterested, and neither of those are any good. Why would a woman pursue a man if she doesn't have to?

[–]ricar426humans are sh*tty2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Why would a man pursue a woman if he doesn't have to? If men were to wait for a sign of interest, there would be fewer kids everywhere.

What's with the reluctance in taking the risk of being rejected? You no longer depend on us for anything, why only on seduction the roles must be the same as past times?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

He doesn't have to. If women are approaching men then he can just wait for that. Isn't the whole OP about how women don't do this, though?

[–]ricar426humans are sh*tty0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You did not answer my question.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Which one

[–]ricar426humans are sh*tty0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

why only on seduction the roles must be the same as past times?

This one.

[–]pnadlerlaw2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, that’s one camp of women. Definitely not all camps, or even the majority of 25&under women.

14/16 women I’ve been intimate with were the ones who initiated things ... simply because I wouldn’t and I expected them to. End of story.

Some of them were sexually experienced. Some of them were when we were both in high school. Some of them were barely 18 with little experience.

To me, as a man, it was important for me to see and feel that a girl was sexually interested in me. I didn’t get to see and feel that when I was the one who escalated and initiated.

To her, as a woman, it was important for her to see and feel that a guy was romantically interested in her. She didn’t get to see and feel that when she was the one who planned and initiated dates and non-sexual expressions of affection.

So, I’m sorry. She can’t have it her way all the time with everything. And the overwhelming majority of the time, girls had zero issues initiating. Zero. None. Not even batting an eye.

I’ve dated a GAP and JAP before, and they want everything to be done to them, and just be effortless, courtesy of the other person in the relationship. All I have to say to that is, those relationships didn’t last that long.

Men prefer women who proactively do in the relationship just as much as he proactively does. Otherwise, long-term, there’s going to be a natural adjustment, resentment, and burn-out, where the man just puts an end to doing anything, and it’s the woman who ends up having to do everything (and by that time, marriage and children are in the mix).

As a guy, if I have to pick between begging for sex versus waking up to an unsolicited handjob or blowjob, idk a man who would choose the former.

Likewise, as a man, if I have to pick between planning dates and taking charge or and responsibility for non-sexual affection ... and the other person being responsible for that ...

On one hand, I can make those same emotional excuses. “Oh, I want to see that she really loves me,” or just plain old be lazy, sit back and wait to receive from someone I know wants those things more than I do ... so she’ll likely do them herself anyway.

But on the other hand, what kind of fucking partner would I be if I did that. What kind of male partner would I be if I allowed her and let her basically beg me for my love and attention, and affection?

If she’s showing me and giving me what I want from her, what’s important to me as a man ... what kind of fucking asshole would I be as a partner if I don’t give her the same love and courtesy as a woman ... and take full ownership and responsibility for that aspect of our relationship?

If I ever see her “initiating romance,” I see that as a fancy way of saying, “begging for my love,” and to me, that’s me failing her as a man ... to give her what she needs most as a woman.

Likewise, if I have a partner who is consciously and intentionally waiting for me to initiate sexually, she’s failed me as a woman. I don’t give a fuck how she feels towards me, because I’m legit not interested in someone like her. I’m looking for someone who respects me, my needs and wants, and the balance in our relationship a little bit more than that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's nice, thanks for this essay about yourself

[–]disposablepurplepill3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women don't like being rejected. No one likes being rejected. Women are the bottleneck and gatekeepers and choosers in the relationship/sex realm. Since you are buy what they are selling they get to set the price, the tax on that price is that you need to escalate so they can reserve the right to "not be rejected" at any point while also reserving the right to "reject" at any point.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

because thats the way it be

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[–]goneaway2thewind19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women: EQUALITY, WE CAN DO EVERYTHING MEN DO

Women in relationships: I NEED A MAN THAT DOES EVERYTHING FOR ME AND EXPECTS NOTHING IN RETURN

[–]09f911029d7Purple Pill6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminism is a societal shit test and society failed it

[–]dval92White Anglo-Saxon Hebrew1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Western civilization failed, more specifically.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

If I was that girl I would have killed myself out of frustration. Like, that would be enough for my mind to snap. I'd be sitting in front of my vanity, craft scissors in hand, ready to cut my bangs (tell tale sign of any serious mental issues). "AM I UGLY AND I JUST DONT KNOW IT? IS HE GAY? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME???"

Op, you're not alone. I know plenty of gen z dudes that are functionally asexual and don't know how to escalate or how to respond to women's interest. Also very homoerotic with their bros, its so weiiiirdddd.

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME???

You won't tell the person you like how you feel. You expect them to pick up on your mind games.

That's your problem.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

hahah I guess that sounds just like me

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So, is the generation after them gonna wind up doing shit Greek-style or something? It’s not gay if the balls aren’t touching and all that...and most of them grow up to marry nice women?

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

if you got socks on it ain’t gay

[–]Morristron20992 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, huge swaths of women are being visibly assholes to men screaming to not even look at them, much less try to date them. At the same time your dude friends care about you and want the best for you and vice versa.

Not that big of a mystery, really.

[–]wellhellotherefellas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you have a mouth? Speak. Tell him. I've had girls do that to me. It's really not that hard.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

oh btw I forgot to say this but it doesn’t just come down to you being ugly or the guy being gay, it’s your personality, how you present yourself, your hobbies/interests/passions/studies, all that and more, as well.

I’m speaking for myself though, I won’t pretend to know what others do about relationships and all that on this sub

[–]DragoonXFury22 Yr Black Virgin Skater Stoner Anime Nerd NPC2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

10/10 thread OP!

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

aww thanks bbcakes

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This gen z is bluepill af but I like him. I hope he’s the secret weapon to turning the tide against the recent onslaught of femcels and their heinous trash posts

We should hang out bro

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

haha thanks dude

what’s blue pill mean?

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol you’re on ppd my man! We are arguing redpill ideas vs blue pill ideas .

The red pill considers the blue pill to be a naive, false way of thinking about sexual attraction and gender dynamics.

The blue pill considers the blue pill to mean “anything not red pill” which they view as ethically unacceptable and/or factually inaccurate.

In a nutshell, TRP core ideas are that human sexual attraction and gender dynamics are rooted more in nature than in nurture, and thus are largely immutable. Birth control is a relatively new invention, and the human psyche evolved in a world where women invested much more in sex than men, via 9 months of pregnancy, high risk of childbirth, and opportunity cost of potentially better mates for offspring. Men, otoh, invest 30 seconds into the sex act. Sticking around after that is optional.

Women want the best. men want the most. this asymmetry leads to most women having genuine attraction for a small percentage of men, which TRP estimates to be 80% of women being attracted to 20% of the men. (See my post in the ppd depth hub in the side bar for more details on this.) TRP advice revolves around trying to get into that 20% using various tactics, some of which are ethically questioned.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the explanation!

this sub was recommended to me and it looked interesting, and i thought it was the right place to ask my question, so I didn’t really understand the stuff behind the pill things

[–]NockerJoeKing Hater4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Man every woman here is screeching a man should approach or a woman won't care even though that's clearly. Not what happened here.

[–]30dirtyfingers2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I find women to be more hypocritical then men due to their "feelings".

[–]oneprettycoolcat1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women will escalate if they find you sexually attractive.

[–]wellhellotherefellas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Happened to me. Definitely happens

[–]crackrocksteady7buying gf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not. If no women have ever made a move on you you're probably unattractive

[–]HennythepainawayI don't even like Henny0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

That's just the way it is. Sometimes you get lucky and one of their friends give you a headsup.

It's hardest with girls who aren't on your radar. Like the ones you would give a shot but aren't really gung ho about making a move on. You know the ones who don't really cross your mind. If they let you know a bit more clearly that they're into you, then your lizard brain might say lets give this a shot.

[–]Reisiluu 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

You know the ones who don't really cross your mind.

No woman wants to be like this in the eyes of a man she likes. That's exactly why women wait to be pursued.

[–]HennythepainawayI don't even like Henny2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not even in a bad way. I'm talking more outer social circle or people that you run into at things you do. The one's you might only meet once or twice or see them a bunch but don't really talk with them.

Like if you're on a college campus or sometimes you go to a different work department or something, you'll be in proximity to a decent amount of women. If they have a crush or find you attractive or whatever, there is a decent chance it'll never register to you. If you meet so many people, you won't ask them all out.

No woman wants to be like this in the eyes of a man she likes. That's exactly why women wait to be pursued.

Yeah I suppose you would want to be the person who stands out and who you just have to talk to. Still I don't really think it's a bad thing for a woman to shoot their shot at a person who hasn't really noticed them yet. I do understand that they don't really have a need to do it if they already have others pursuing them.

[–]Helmet_Icicle0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What competition do you think a passive woman can offer to an active woman?

[–]Reisiluu 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Being hotter. That's why cougars and fat women are more active.

[–]Helmet_Icicle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

All other traits being the same, what competition do you think a passive woman can offer to an active woman?

[–]Ofourkind11 points12 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

The brutal truth? I can't be bothered.

A man is a nice thing to have, but I've never been desperate enough to chase a particular man or go through the stress of trying to convince one to like me. If he's serious about wanting to be with me, he will make it known. If he's not, oh well.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I feel the same way, I have more important things in my life and more fun things to do than to spend time pursuing a girl. I don’t see the point.

That does make a lot of sense, I think

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

We must clone this time traveling Chad from 3019. I bet he’s even immune to mosquito bites . Greatest immune system of all Time 👊🏻

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

dude speaking of mosquito bites if you press a hot spoon or use alcohol on the bite immediately it won’t develop further

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the more you know

🌈

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Imagine if men used this logic.

[–]Ofourkind4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some do.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do lol

[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Evidently OP's friend was quite serious though as it got angry at OP.

I can respect the mentality of not putting in the effort for what one doesn't really desire but getting angry for not getting it when one didn't put in the work is quite another.

[–]Ofourkind0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So what if someone is angry about it? There have been hundreds of men who were upset or angry at my apparent apathy about their interest in me. That's their issue.

[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm just saying that you can't really claim the apathy argument if you were angry; if you were angry you clearly weren't apathetic.

[–]Ofourkind0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why do you think I was angry?

[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never said you were angry? I said OP's friend was angry.

[–]Reisiluu 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not on you. Then you just don't get laid.

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

ehh whatever it’s not like I’m looking to get laid anyway

[–]largepaycheckaddict3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Making the first move and escalating is a sign of confidence and a man who’s comfortable in his own skin. What kind of woman wants to date some mousy guy who’s too afraid to put his arm around her or touch her?

[–]wellhellotherefellas0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

mousy guy

Or maybe a guy who doesn't want to be accused of sexual harrassment. It's not all cut and dry for men.

[–]largepaycheckaddict2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You take it a step at a time, you don’t jump down the flight of stairs. Hug her, maybe put your arm around her, playfully tease her etc and you can gauge where she’s at with you and whether to go in for a kiss or hold her hand. This has been my strategy since I was like 13/14 and it’s always helped. Haven’t had my face on the screen at the police station lobby for sexual harassment yet.

[–]beckabunss4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Idk I've always confessed to crushes with mixed results ( I am a girl)

TBH if you aren't that clued into her liking you, you probably aren't into her, so whatever right?

[–]wellhellotherefellas0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You could be into her and she could be into you, but she's not giving any hints at all.

[–]beckabunss0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tbh if a girl likes you and isn’t trying to be close to you, spend more time with you over others and generally giving you a lot of attention, she’s asking a lot for you to be clued in. Usually if you’re mutually interested in a girl you may be unsure of how she feels because you aren’t on the outside looking in

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In general it's on men to escalate because of social norms and the unspoken rule that men have to put most of the effort during dating.

[–]ToraChan23Red Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they can't handle rejection like you're supposed to, and their egos are too big to humble themselves and come direct with their feelings

[–]verdantsound1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

who the fuck cares where metalmod likes you or not?

[–]boomcheese441 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Its your job as a man. Sorry.

[–]strickyicky 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's your job as a woman to cook clean and suck my dick.

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil.

[–]NockerJoe 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thats her problem. Being passive works if you have a dude on the hook and wanna contribute nothing to it. But if your dude doesn't care either way and hasn't considered it it's on you and a lot of women never make a move or just ASSUME that vague eye contact works.

Emotional starfishing works in a macro sense because some dude will always come along to try bulldozing those barriers. It does not work in a micro sense. Every time this happens dudes told about it will also give no sympathy to a woman expecting it because we've all been hit by that dynamic and hate that shit.

[–]FabioAbdilla0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately because of biology and social norms men are expected to make all the moves and detect signals that indicate a woman's interest. But in retrospect, that girl is being unreasonable. You're not a mind reader.

[–]BrokenHaloUseToShine0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it is up to you. I have flirted with a guy and invited him to do date things.

[–]rhyth70 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

She's upset cuz you didn't tell her you didn't like her like that. If you were attracted to her it would have been the other way around, you'd see any kind thing she did as a sign

[–]ardasyendenD🅰️🅱️ on orphans i must[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

why would she be upset about that? I don’t tell my gal friends that I’m not interested in them from the get go, shouldn’t you assume no interest unless specified?

[–]rhyth70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You prolly crossed some unspoken social norms, male/female friendships are not typically as close as yours. Because you don't see her that way you didn't think anything was weird but if she had a boyfriend your friendship would most definitely change because he wouldn't be comfortable with what you guys have been doing? Would you continue on the way you have if you were taken? Likely no, cuz your gf would get mad. Just a lack of awareness here on your part.

[–]meomeowmeowwfurries > TRP0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because you want to get your dick wet.

[–]rus9384Misanthrope3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

From his responses... does not look like that.

[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I didn't invent weird social conventions nor do I live my life hampered by them.

The thing about social conventions is that they have no rhyme nor reason behind them, they just are as they are; why do you have to shake hands? You just have to because it's a social convention? Why is it customary even amongst Japanese twins that the younger one address the older one with a honorific but the older one addresses the younger one by first name? That's just how it is and the Japanese are mad obsessed with age-based respect even if the difference is 10 minutes: you're older; you get a honorific and the younger one is supposed to defer to your judgement and you're supposed to protect the younger one because "10 minutes older".

Social conventions are arbitrary and in whatever culture you live; that's how it goes apparently; that friend of you didn't invent it either; that friend of you just lives its life by it; one can choose to do so, or not.

[–]officerkondoRedder Shade of Purple Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why is it customary even amongst Japanese twins that the younger one address the older one with a honorific but the older one addresses the younger one by first name?

I lived in Japan for years (and have Japanese in-laws to this day) and I have never heard of this "convention" between twins. I would add that my observation is that in Japanese households, given names are rarely used for address. Instead, people are called "father", "older sister", "younger brother" et cetera.

[–]T-P-T-W-P0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not a woman but I will give my input. Men have always been the aggressor between the two sexes, both in the mating game and in life, our hormonal makeup dictates it as so. Men approaching is ultimately a form of value confirmation. Men who are already tabbed as valuable enough prior to any sort of interaction with a respective female have to do a lot less in terms of approaching and "winning" the female. Have you ever had a whale approach you and make flirty comments or anything like that? If so, it was because your preconceived value surpasses her threshold already without having to pass that initial approach test. "Taking" what you believe to be yours is considered an attractive trait that is (rightly) subconsciously extrapolated by women towards making further assumptions about a prospective mate. "This guy can fend off predators and dangerous conditions." "This guy can provide food and shelter." "This guy is physically capable of producing healthy offspring". Weak and feeble men are less likely to approach a mate and are also less capable of doing those things, these two things are invariably linked.

Your options are increasing your sexual value to a point in which you're largely exempt from having to pass this test with the women you generally want to mate with, a highly difficult thing to do (attractive women don't have to go too far out of their way for quality mates ever) but albeit still possible, or learning to approach and in doing so being able to demonstrate your value as a healthy male worth mating with.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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