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Rant/VentingMy Old Coworker Hung Himself (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Butimdifferent

I used to sell cars at a big dealership. There was an older salesman there, John. Early, mid 50s. A year or so before I started working there, he was homeless and walked into the dealership looking for a job. He was hired and immediately began taking customers for all they had. Why not? He was homeless a month ago. He drank on the job and although it hasn't been confirmed with evidence he did drugs, too. Smoked a ton and wore a suit a little too big. If you looked at him, you'd think he was a car salesman straight out of the 70s.

Despite his shortcomings, John was an interesting man to talk to with a zany and dark sense of humor. I'm half his age and we would call each other Dad and Son sometimes as a joke, but he was like my dealership dad. He was liked by everyone so much, that a lot of salesman pitched in some money to buy him a car we took in on trade.

John sold a lot of cars and squeezed every last penny out of every customer to be able to see his two kids. I think they're 8 and 12. When he made a big commission, he would take a day off and take them to see a ball game, go to the zoo, awesome dad stuff like that. John rarely ever got to see his kids, though. He was divorced and the wife is a lawyer who fucked him as hard in their divorce as hard as he fucked his customers selling cars. From what John told me, he was a stay at home dad. He had managed some restaurants before and had some jobs here and there, but the last several years of the marriage was him taking care of the kids. He had to pay her child support.

John was a wreck after the marriage which is probably why he started drinking heavily and doing drugs, selling cars as his last resort. I left the dealership after a year and a half, but still met up with John every few months for a drink. We would talk about what's new, political horseshit at the dealership, which girls in the bar we'd like to be inside of. He always had some insight for me painted in with whatever joke he was telling next.

Last time I saw him was a few months ago for drinks. He tried out working at another dealership, but he wasn't their kind of salesman. He tried going back to the dealership we sold at together, but they wouldn't take him back. He was living off unemployment.

I got a call today from another guy we worked with. John was found dead in his bedroom this morning. He hung himself. My mind can only make up so many scenarios as to what happened and why...but the one that keeps pushing itself forward the most is that John wasn't able to find work, and couldn't support himself anymore. If he couldn't support himself, then how was he going to pay to see his kids? They were his last shining light. But as an aging man, I don't think he has much chance in today's world to make anything more of himself.

I hate some of the bitterness I see on here about not getting married and the anger phase many are in. But it makes me wonder if John hadn't gotten married, would he be a better man who hadn't hung himself out of love for his children and shame of himself? Will that be me someday? Will that be you?


[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 317 points318 points  (5 children)

Men are killing themselves off in record numbers all bitches care about is not being shamed for being a size 16 fatass.

Just be happy you had the opportunity to learn from this man.

[–][deleted] 93 points94 points  (0 children)

I'll second that by saying nobody on this sub should come under the illusion that society cares about men like John.

PAY JOHN OR GO TO JAIL.

That's the extent of the fuck all anyone cares about divorced men.

If this is you - you're a slave - a fucking pack animal to be whipped and beaten until the last resource is wrung from your corpse.

This is the world we live in and any man looking to get married and have children should be well aware of this fact and be damn sure he knows WTF he is doing.

[–]laere 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Stories like this only heavily enforce me to never get married.

RIP John.

[–]yumyumgivemesome 1 point2 points  (1 child)

We can get pissed at women for a lot of things, but in the end John had more control over his life than anyone else. This defeatist attitude is the only thing I dislike about this subreddit. We can be aware of the many AWALT-isms without loathing their existence.

"A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man also learns from others'."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This defeatist attitude is the only thing I dislike about this subreddit.

"A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man also learns from others'."

No shit? That's what we're trying to do here. Learn from John. Don't get chained up in this kind of situation.

[–]TheRealMewt 46 points47 points  (4 children)

In the Air Force, I was taught time and time again through suicide prevention training that suicide is always "a permanent solution to a temporary problem". But seeing a story like this makes you wonder what happens to the person who has a "temporary" problem for the remainder of his life, or a never-ending series of temporary problems one after the other until their final moments. A man that has to worry about losing his kids sounds like someone who'd be living this kind of nightmare to me.

Regardless, I hope your dad found peace wherever he ended up, man.

[–]Purecorrupt 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Part of it to me is just sounds like a "nothing to live for" situation. A lot of people put their heart/soul or whatever into one thing. What happens when that one thing goes away? After Robin Williams died I heard Wayne Brady publicly say he was also depressed. Wayne Brady if you don't know him is a pretty successful improv artist.

One thing I've found about myself and I can anecdotally see in other famous people is when you "master" something and its taken away or you see no room for improvement then you can start becoming depressed. Wayne Brady mentioned how he put himself down because he didn't get or try certain roles and his wife left him because he was such a downer. (He defined his whole life as an actor).

You find that you can't get better (pro sport) at it or you've lost it (like a job). This is why I think it is very beneficial for people to have more than one hobby and not lose focus of them as many people do when they get married or have children. It gives someone a self-worth. When all of your self-worth is tied to one thing the risk of your self-confidence plummeting from 100-0 is very very high. If its split between many things it lowers that risk. This is why people say get hobbies, read, lift, sports, create something. They're all different and personal validation isn't tied to one thing.

[–]GhostOfAladdin 2 points2 points [recovered]

One of the most effective treatments to PTSD is meditating. Any brothers in trouble-some times now, please consider.

[–][deleted] 35 points35 points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 80 points81 points  (1 child)

Moral of the story: live for you. Don't let your fate be determined by anyone else especially a woman. And look out for your brothers.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My Brothers

They had eyes dark as night, my brothers,

As if cut in black diamond

They had moon-woven hair, my brothers,

Glistening blue in endless mist

And teeth like wolves' teeth, my brothers,

Joyous teeth clenched tight on their hungers

The voice they had, borne it was from the stars,

Fascinating and misunderstood

the hands they had, fearsome hands, my brothers,

And the world was drunk at their fingertips

Gone are they on all the paths, my brothers,

They were warm like fire, and fresh like the wind

Let me touch your hair your brow your lips,

Scrutinize the palms of your hands

I'm only searching for my brothers everywhere around,

To live is to know how to love

Gone they are on all the paths, my brothers,

But in every mirror, I find them again!

Tchalai

[–]redditor1618 315 points315 points [recovered]

Who in their right mind would marry a female lawyer? Talk about a double dose of evil.

RIP John.

[–]soccerplusaviation 25 points26 points  (18 children)

This post scared the shit out of me. My girlfriends mom is a child support lawyer.

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Use condom. That's all I can say

[–]1independentmale 27 points28 points  (0 children)

If you have kids with her, remember this:

  1. They will always be her kids. She has the means to take them away from you on a whim.

  2. When she does decide to take them away from you, she's going to fuck your financial world up to the point of bankruptcy and leave you in debt to her for a very long time.

This is true of most women, but especially true in your case.

[–]RedPillScare 21 points22 points  (5 children)

Leave. Right now. The power dynamic disfavors you so greatly that you can't stay. A vasectomy is not enough protection, even.

[–]skett007 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I can almost hear the tick tick ticking of the bomb you are playing with.

[–]PeteMullersKeyboard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah you should be scared. Maybe not scared...be prepared. Don't fuck up. You might regret it for the rest of your life if you do. Play it smart.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 149 points150 points  (84 children)

He didn't kill himself, she did, by abusing her power. Here's hoping someone avenges John by ruining her.

[–][deleted] 153 points154 points  (8 children)

Everyone always hopes someone else dishes out the justice. Villains sleep soundly knowing this.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (2 children)

By our grandfathers standards, that's also called cowardice.

[–]Magnum256[🍰] 17 points18 points  (1 child)

That's exactly what it is, and our current generation encourages a cowardice mindset.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Now that I read it, you're exactly right. Even being a man is reviled in our society, and masculine behavior is frowned upon or turned into a mental illness.

They embrace being cowards, turn the other cheek gone massively awry. I like the Chicago way. He brings a knife, you bring a gun. He puts one of yours in a hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. Peace through superior firepower.

[–]ROIVeritas 41 points42 points  (3 children)

Criminals, aka feminists and manginas, thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding.

The inmates are running the asylum, in a land this bent, full of rats, there is no one to snitch to to.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

TRP = The League of Shadows?

[–]ROIVeritas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bane and Batman both got duped and defeated by a gaming selena kyle/ catwoman in the last movie. Feminist undertone? Yes

TRP precepts being largely villified and demonized? Yes, this means feminists are the mainstream, they are the corrupt Gotham, living under the delusion that their rule is justified. TRP/ league of shadows is here to reduce their fallacies to rubble so to speak.

[–]PIGamer86 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think thats on a plaque somewhere...like my desk.

"Everyone always hopes someone else dishes out the justice. Villians sleep soundly knowing this." -Ninja-5

[–]jakethesnake76 89 points90 points  (16 children)

Nope , i'll prolly get downvoted for contradicting you , but i can relate alot to John in the story right now with what i am going through. But Johns weakness was that he cared to much ,i am over 50 and most of my buddies are too , most of them get played by eveyone including their grown kids and ex wives. Part of swallowing the red pill is dealing with reality, and John in this story couldn't and most of my friends are learning the hard way.John allowed a temporary situation to define his future, just as Robin williams and countless others have. Rudyard Kipling had a beautiful poem called IF ,http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/if/ and he tells he's son how to be a man, we men must stay in control of our frames or be lost as estrogen filled women are..

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the poem, sending this to my dad (its relevant for him).

[–]Endorsed ContributorNiftyDolphin 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Robin Williams had dementia.

If I knew my mind was going, and that there was little possibility of treatment or a cure, then I'd considering making The Long Walk myself, rather than draw things out and burden my family with crushing medical debt.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Robin Williams lost all his money in two divorces with no pre-nups and was reduced to doing a TV show that he hated (for good reason - it sucked).

I've known at least 2 people with dementia, and they were quite happy.

[–]rpscrote 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Robin Williams had dementia.

If I knew my mind was going, and that there was little possibility of treatment or a cure, then I'd considering making The Long Walk myself, rather than draw things out and burden my family with crushing medical debt.

Amen. If im gonna be a burden to my family I'll take care of the problem while I've got the means

[–]jakethesnake76 0 points1 point  (0 children)

never heard the dementia take before , if you had a week to live and in sure agony maybe but to many men are quiting even before they should or have tried nothing in life is easy and it's never over till it's over..All men are not evolved to be a man h=who is worthy to be one of the 300..http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416449/

[–]SemperFiWashout 4 points4 points [recovered]

That poem should be crossposted to Stoicism.

[–]Makati-Kills 7 points7 points [recovered]

i was introduced to that poem when going thru the divorce hell-rape.

I don't think is temporary, he reached the end: no job; no income; kids probably hated/disrespected him; cunt was unrelenting in her oppression; jail for non payment pending. Man can only take it for so long. And drunk? Probably drank as much as any one else...

as an aside Kipling was the great jingoist until his own son went MIA..

[–]jakethesnake76 2 points3 points  (2 children)

My take is men always fight to the end (Adapt and fight) live to fight another day, it's never over till it's over and i see some men my age turn pessimistic , and quit, i don't quit, but i don't accept as permanent any situation and i have been in some really bad ones , most men have.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 5 points6 points  (1 child)

There are fights which are unwinnable, positions untenable, reality so bleak with such a dim crushing future that death is preferable.

Being 50+ with an 8 year old means being 60+ before you're living for yourself again. No savings possible at that point, anything you earned went to her, you are an indentured servant for what should be the years where you can relax some. By 65 nobody wants to hire you, starting a business requires capital which you don't have, so you work as a greeter at Walmart makining minimum wage, never get to see your kids because she poisoned them against you, and you never were able to make your dreams a reality, because you had an albatross around your neck.

His future was bleak at best. Nobody cares about men, we are supposed to do it ourselves through sheer grit. What if there is no payoff? Why fight the battle that has no meaning, no purpose, no benefit to anyone deserving? There are times when you fold because the pot is nonexistent and the stakes are too high, and you don't even have a pair of 3s.

The moral?

  1. Never marry.

  2. Vasectomy at 35.

[–]jakethesnake76 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you tell me your whole body is eaten up with cancer and you have 1 week to live maybe ,then fold but at 50, nope.....

[–]evilquesadilla 4 points4 points [recovered]

Agree. The man's wife is just acting like a woman. Granted not women are like this, but living your life banking on the goodwill of others (hoping the woman happens to have a kind heart) is asking for trouble.

I think the fact that the guy turned to substance abuse made his recovery even more difficult. I personally try to associate alcohol with good times. I'll drink when hanging out with friends, I'll drink when I'm chilling at home by myself, I will not touch alcohol when I'm feeling depressed or down.

I also will not put my professional career at risk for women. Once you are out of the game, it becomes far more difficult to get back in. The law is on the woman's side.

Step one, make sure you can stand on your own. Then, add other flavors to taste.

[–]JustACrosshair_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Ha, that damn poem.

I read it in Highschool, read it once again in one of my college classes, and now reading it once more and realizing I have actually been living it, line by line, for the past two years there is such a difference in sense of understanding.

Some days I wonder if I really am going any right way, if any of the trials and rigors of life itself are worth anything and then my head drops heavy.

I forgot I aimed to really understand this poem one day in Highschool. I read it but I knew I couldn't understand what it was really saying. I knew I couldn't feel it. I forgot I knew this poem was really important.

I see today that after reading this, everything I've done and been through in the last few years - the block of my life that makes up young adulthood has not been for nothing. Even though I am not where I aim to be as far as external and worldly things are concerned, I can say with full confidence that today I absolutely feel this poem. I have been given the greatest run of experiences,with more ups and downs, more tests of will, tragedies and victories than a lot of my peers up to this point and because of that I can truly understand this poem.

I am more confident now that I am going the right way, thanks for dropping that link.

[–]fap_the_pain_away 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ha, that damn poem.

I read it in Highschool, read it once again in one of my college classes, and now reading it once more and realizing I have actually been living it, line by line, for the past two years there is such a difference in sense of understanding.

Some days I wonder if I really am going any right way, if any of the trials and rigors of life itself are worth anything and then my head drops heavy.

I forgot I aimed to really understand this poem one day in Highschool. I read it but I knew I couldn't understand what it was really saying. I knew I couldn't feel it. I forgot I knew this poem was really important.

I see today that after reading this, everything I've done and been through in the last few years - the block of my life that makes up young adulthood has not been for nothing. Even though I am not where I aim to be as far as external and worldly things are concerned, I can say with full confidence that today I absolutely feel this poem. I have been given the greatest run of experiences,with more ups and downs, more tests of will, tragedies and victories than a lot of my peers up to this point and because of that I can truly understand this poem.

I am more confident now that I am going the right way, thanks for dropping that link.

Something tells me you aren't actually living up to the standard.

[–]jakethesnake76 0 points1 point  (0 children)

there is such a difference in sense of understanding.

Morpheus: "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path." The Matrix, 1999

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 8 points9 points  (5 children)

And the problem with this is that it's not what John would want, because by hurting her, you'd hurt the kids. He clearly valued the kids above all else. A rotten situation overall.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Right you are. There is no justice in this situation. Rather, there seems to be no equitable remedy, and rather, it was prevention that was key.

[–]SemperFiWashout 2 points2 points [recovered]

no equitable remedy

This. Perfect choice of words.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks. They're quite common legal terms.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

see also: irreparable harm

[–]fap_the_pain_away 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nonsense. He could have taken out a dozen divorce judges on his way out. He could have been a hero.

The media would try to frame it as another "evil white males are bad, oh and let's throw in the 'deadbeat dad' buzzword 20 times for good measure" type of story. But the publicity would only motivate more men in his shoes to copy him.

There is wisdom in pitchforks and torches.

[–]JihadDerp 25 points26 points  (13 children)

Sounds a lot like feminist logic. "She's not responsible for her own life's misfortunes. It's the patriarchy' fault!" Let's not forget he's the one who tied the noose and kicked the chair. Women contribute to our stress, but it's down to our own self discipline and self-control to deal with it responsibly, respectably, like men. Please don't contribute to the red pill by turning it into a "blame women for everything" fest. Self sufficiency is a core tenet. Can't promote that if you're always passing the buck.

She was a cunt. But he killed himself.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 20 points21 points  (2 children)

Sounds a lot like feminist logic.

You've exposed me, I'm a feminist.

[–]JihadDerp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well obviously not, but you can see my point. It's one thing to assign partial blame, it's another to assign full blame.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Okay, but she made it a reasonable thing for him to do.

[–]SemperFiWashout 6 points6 points [recovered]

But he killed himself.

My cousin killed himself when, in his last semester of college, he wanted to drop out. His fiancee said if he quits school they should end the engagement. This "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation sparked a fatal chain of events that resulted in suicide.

My cousin made the choice to kill himself. However, this doesn't exempt her from some amount of culpability, because when that last straw breaks a camel's back, someone put it there. She might not have intended for things to play out as they did, but she did start that chain of events.

OP's story is similar. John killed himself, but he had help from his ex-wife in getting to that point.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Poor guy, total lack of abundance and not realizing there was a decent chance she was just trying to manipulate him, and wouldn't have actually ended it.

[–]SemperFiWashout 3 points3 points [recovered]

The crazy thing is he was a super positive person, and honestly (no homo) he was a good-looking guy, awesome personality. He could naturally pull women, super smart, eloquent, etc. A gentleman, even. His fiancee is as good looking as my best pull ever. He had abundance, but I guess he didn't know it? No man is an island, and as a society we all lose when someone who had something to contribute checks out early.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Almost every man has abundance. Knowing you have it is the important thing.

[–]Endorsed ContributorNiftyDolphin 5 points6 points  (1 child)

What was his major?

This is total speculation with no data, but if he was on-track to enter a lucrative field, his fiancee may have been playing the long game on him with an eye on his future ultra-provisioning. (If want to be a general's wife, marry a lieutenant.)

Isolate him from any independent social support and then grind him down. Make your world his world so that anyone he interacts with is on "your" team and he has no clue that he has Game of his own.

Been there. Sucked. Thought about eating my gun 4x a day. My brother found out and moved his family nearby. It was only when my wife began displaying passive and then increasingly overtly hostile responses to this move that I finally realized that I wasn't a loser fuck-up: I was under attack.

Hrm, gun show is in town this weekend. I think I'll buy him something expensive.

[–]franklyforthright 9 points10 points  (19 children)

No true, John was just a victim of his own inability. She made things worse in life but it was his decision to marry and to drink. ect

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 35 points36 points  (17 children)

If a dog shits on the carpet it's my fault I didn't take it for a walk, but it's not my fault it's full of shit to begin with. I don't buy into the whole hyperagency thing. There's blame to go all around. Giving women no personal responsibility for anything empowers them to do whatever the hell they like with no standard of behaviour and then blame the nearest man (as they commonly do.) Did I crash my car?! It's my man's fault for buying me the car/trusting me not to drive like a lunatic/adjusting the drivers seat etc. Fuck that noise. Women need disciplining, which means, emotively, to their great pain and distress, forcing blame SQUARELY onto them. I'd discipline a kid and expect it to take responsibility, so what's with this prevailing attitude of "she's just a woman, it's not her fault." Cunt women like that make shit mothers because they do the same to their kids. Blame their kids for their mistakes, which is child abuse. No. I don't buy into it for a second.

[–]jakethesnake76 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Women need disciplining, which means, emotively, to their great pain and distress, forcing blame SQUARELY onto them. I'd discipline a kid and expect it to take responsibility, so what's with this prevailing attitude of "she's just a woman, it's not her fault."

Good societies do this Decaying ones lose all control ..

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm glad you hold this viewpoint because it seems like all I hear, is that it's always the man's fault and women have no accountability. I don't think this is a morally or intellectually honest position, nor is it in any way useful, so I'm disappointed when I see it espoused here on TRP.

I know this isn't the first time you've made this argument. I hope people will listen to you.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I don't think any woman or man has ever used that excuse when they crashed a car. No one would use such asinine reasoning. Maybe adjusting the seat, but never because you allowed then to drive.

Your pedantic optimism tells me you're new here. Hold back on posting until you've read the sidebar.

[–]Stand_Your_Ground_ 6 points7 points  (1 child)

If this cunt can jump out of a car then immediately blame the guy I honestly don't think it's that far fetched for a woman to use that level of asinine reasoning/lying.

[–]sweetleef -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

But it's your fault for putting the dog on the carpet. Ultimately you control the carpet, it's up to you to keep the dog away from it.

The dog has no responsibility because it can't have any responsibility, it's not functionally capable of assuming responsibility for anything. Arguing that it should be different is a waste of time, it's like arguing against gravity.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 37 points38 points  (4 children)

I knew someone would pick at the finer points of the analogy/example to make a counterpoint. It always happens. The example is not logically perfect, it's just my way of saying "no matter how much responsibility you take, she will still fuck up, and you shouldn't blame yourself for that."

Hyperagency - men going on about how everything is their fault when shit fucks up and they should have been more manly. Taking responsibility for other people because you are capable of doing something they can't. It's like a woman who can't operate a machine. You can. She operates it when you're not around and you go "I should have been there, I should have locked the door so she couldn't use that machine, it's all my fault she burnt the damn house down!"

Hypoagency - women going on about how everything isn't their fault and the men are to blame. Not admitting they are incapable of sustaining certain responsibilities and moral behaviours out of pride/reputation and simply scapegoating other people as being the cause of their shitty behaviour when they weren't. Whereas she's complementing your masculine pride/sense of responsibility and using it to scapegoat you: "He never said not to touch the machine, I thought I needed to use the machine, if the door was locked or he'd told me what to do, I wouldn't have burnt the house down!"

Logically, it's repulsive. I understand how for practical reasons it's easier for men to just take all the blame and sort shit out. I get that. I understand it. I don't need schooling on it. Doesn't mean I have to buy into that shit or like it though. Essentially TRP says: "because women are bat shit crazy, inferior and won't take responsibility for shit - you should AS A MAN - because MEN provide/TAKE care of shit blah blah blah." Don't worry I get it, I just think the hamstering necessary to get the "most productive outcome" is fucking disgusting. You actually, as a man, convince yourself you're responsible for a woman's actions because of a behaviour YOU DID or DIDN'T do. You allow hypothetical realities that didn't happen to be adequate reasons for self-blame. Then mix that in with "duty" and "what a man does." Come the fuck on. I'm not married or in an LTR, so I don't have to deal with that basket case full of bullshit as it stands.

I understand the utility of male hyperagency - I just don't like it on matter of principle. You defy your own rationalism and put yourself through emotional turmoil/self-agony/hatred to have success with women. It's fucked up. On small issues it's not a big deal. But on big things like this, men kill themselves. This guy obviously worked very hard to see his kids, wasn't a bad guy - could of been any of you, and yet it's just a collective dismissive chorus of "it's his fault." What a bunch of bullshit. I think opinions will always be divided on this. And that's good. Shows we're not a complete echo chamber.

[–]Philhelm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've had conversations about control of one's destiny, and my view is that life is like a river. The stead flow of the river represents the external factors of which we have no control, but we are still able to paddle around and possibly choose different forks along the river. We have some control, but ultimately we will never have full control of our destinies. Even the most successful, confident, alpha male can be killed in a car accident, or have any number of maladies bring him down that are well beyond his control.

[–]sweetleef 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You actually, as a man, convince yourself you're responsible for a woman's actions because of a behaviour YOU DID or DIDN'T do.

We're in agreement overall, but this statement above is not what I am saying.

You are not responsible for her actions, you are only responsible for yours - and that includes the responsibility to protect yourself from her actions.

For example, a starving lion can be relied on to eat a human if the human enters its cage, even if the human enters with a motive to help the lion. It's not fair or right, but you can't change it. So, knowing about the lion's tendencies, you have a responsibility to not enter the cage. If you do, and you're eaten, even if the lion is the one who ate, it's your fault.

It's not about being "manly" or honorable, it's realizing predictable cause and effect, and accepting that the lion will be a lion no matter how much we wish it weren't.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 12 points13 points  (1 child)

So, knowing about the lion's tendencies, you have a responsibility to not enter the cage. If you do, and you're eaten, even if the lion is the one who ate, it's your fault.

If only it were that simple with women, eh? It is my belief you can write a list of "things not to do with a woman" do none of them, and still get burnt. Women are the chaos element in humanity. There is more rhyme and reason to the actions of a lion than the fleeting emotional impulse of a woman, who, in her nature, will follow that impulse wherever it takes her if the emotion is particularly compelling enough. Naturally she will improvise reasons on a rational level after the fact (hamster) but the actual behaviour was pure instinct/impulse/emotion chasing.

I trust women to follow their emotions. I can't be there at all times to make sure she's feeling what I need her to feel so she doesn't fuck things up. Likewise, I can't always be there to stop her friends or other men from poisoning her emotions. I think that's too much to ask of a man. This is why in my view, like religion did, we need to socially programme them to suppress their worst instincts and internalise a system of morality. Helps society tick along. It's what built this civilization to begin with (Judeo-Christian values.) Religion has it's faults (and interestingly enough, I'm not religious) but what alternative do we really have for keeping women in check and at least giving men a fighting chance to ensure they [women] don't just burn everything on a whim?

[–]sweetleef 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Again, agreed.

A cute element of the PC propaganda is that it always sidesteps the issue of experience and the reasons for all the behaviors they rant against, as if societal customs were written up in some smoky back room by a bunch of old white men on a whim for shits and giggles.

They ignore that thousands of generations of experience has guided people in how to act, and there are good reasons for the rules that came out of that experience. There are good reasons that every society in human history has developed some mechanism to control female behaviour and sexual power, and we've seen the horrifying results of ignoring those mechanisms over the past 40 years or so.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

fundamental principle of debate: debate the principle not the analogy

[–]juanqunt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not quite... the scary part was that he had ability. The ability to sell is a very good RP pickup strategy. Scary that even for a man with above average ability, marriage can drive him to death.

[–]PlanB_pedofile 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah. she lived sex in the city for a little while befote finding another rich business owner or lawyer who was foolish enough to wife her up.

Now living happily ever after in her new castle with a prince charming with her 2 kids whom started to call the new man 'dad'.

THE END

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

yeah fuckin oath i will join this cause

[–]FrameWalker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

No IllimitableMan, John is responsible for his own life. Women are not an excuse.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 10 points11 points  (0 children)

If you're a very strong and responsible man and I emotionally destroyed you, would you say it's your fault for not being strong enough to defend against me and absolve me of any blame in my choice to fuck you up "IllimitableMan is a DT, DTs do that, I should have known better," or would you say "IllimitableMan is a piece of shit." Because really, both are true.

Food for thought. I say there's blame on both sides. Most men put all the blame on the chick or all the blame on the man. I'm never going to agree the woman has zero blame and the man has full blame on this shit. The self-accountability for your own responsibility shouldn't leak out onto the actions of others. You cannot fully control what women do, only mitigate damage/improve your odds.

[–]Patrick2787 0 points1 point  (0 children)

+1 Dude. May John's indirect vengeance be swift, and without mercy.

[–]zwiebelsaft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally someone with the balls of a marine.

Source: experience.

[–]Throway99038 23 points24 points  (5 children)

the last several years of the marriage was him taking care of the kids. He had to pay her child support.

WTF. And people have the balls to say the law is gender neutral. Fuck this. I feel sorry for his kids. RIP John.

[–]SemperFiWashout 5 points5 points [recovered]

Gender neutral law... lol. Tell that to the male teachers that got decades in state prison for trying to hook up with students, while female teachers who successfully hooked up with students get a few years' probation.

[–]Throway99038 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Dude i am from India, trust me, i know how fucked up women centric laws can be. Check out the section 498A (Anti Dowry Law) in google. It was intorduced in the 80's to help in the battle against dowry problem facing the country, now is the most misused law in the world probably. Recent Indian supreme court finding says 98% of these cases are false. Under this law you're guilty until proven innocent, should your wife decide to file a case against you. In nearly every divorce case women use this law to harass their husbands to get a better bargain. While i was in school i saw my next door neighbor get screwed cause of this law. His wife cheated on him, left him for her lover and used this law to fuck over her husband, the guy had to give her everything he owned just to avoid jailtime. So many men are driven to suicide cause of this law, the number just keeps rising. Unfortunately this is not the only law that screws men over. These laws were meant to help women. But the women who actually need this law barely use it owing to family pressure and lack of awareness, but the cunning bitches just abuse the hell out of these laws.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The law is gender neutral.

The application is not.

[–]1kulrajiskulraj 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah I don't get this. Wouldn't he have been able to get alimony off of her?

[–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Almost never happens as judges are biased and the judge is the law plus she's a woman AND a lawyer and he isn't a lawyer.

The number one rule is women win divorce money.

[–]1beerthroway 20 points21 points  (3 children)

I'm really truly sorry for your loss. I know exactly how you feel. I'm 25 and I've already lost two friends to suicide and two others in drunk driving accidents. 4 men that were good men but just struggled and couldn't get the help they needed because men are disposable in our society.

In fact the second one that committed suicide just did so last week. I had no clue he was in so much pain.

This alone makes me treat every man I come across as if they may be contemplating suicide. Not that I freak out and treat them carefully. I just show them the human decency they deserve and I'm able to be genuine with my care.

The suicide of men is becoming appalling. I'm honestly left speechless and I just feel sadness. If I had known...

[–]SemperFiWashout 1 points1 points [recovered]

I echo your prejudice that all men may be considering suicide. I don't know if civilian male suicide rates are increasing or not, but it's a horrible thing no matter what the statistics indicate.

[–]1beerthroway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And yet 90% of songs and movies are about men feeling bad over the loss of women.

It doesn't exactly matter if rates are increasing, the numbers are high enough that we should be doing more to get the rates down:

http://www.bcmj.org/articles/silent-epidemic-male-suicide

[–]HedRotPiliCeppers 56 points56 points [recovered]

I'm not saying this to be callous or or cruel, in fact just the opposite but I think it's important that everyone here remembers this:

Society will not mourn his loss. Society will not mourn your loss unless you happen to be famous or wealthy. There will be no CBS special or facebook post with 100,000 likes or any kind of fanfare over his death. Society doesn't care about male casualties, its expected, almost implied in everything we are expected to do. His ex wife will probably make a show of being distraught to garner attention for herself, but she will not mourn. His kids will mourn, and his coworkers and friends, but the sympathy will be for the wife, not for the guy who couldn't pay enough to see his kids. Only we look at this mans death and see reality. This could have been any one of us, but it wasn't and I hope it won't be.

Remember to always be available for guys going through a hard time, as there are very few resources available to a guy other than his own will and his close friends.

His name was John.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIPkkKxRD2g#t=53

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (3 children)

Meanwhile John's death will activate a social security benefit for John's ex-wife until the kids are 18 which will likely be greater than what he was paying out in support.

She'll feel no guilt, no remorse, no culpability, no sadness over his death. In her mind his suicide will only re-affirm her decision to divorce, ejecting him into a life of destitution and poverty having nothing to do with his mental condition.

Indeed, everyone will feel terrible for her. "Oh poor Mary she was once married to that awful man."

I've totally seen this shit before.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is fucking horrible because it is true.

[–][deleted] 32 points32 points

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[–]boinko03 -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

We know his side of the story. He sounds like a drunk. Could have kicked his beta ass to the curb for drinking around the kids, who knows.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (3 children)

The drive to live is like willpower. You start off with some degree of it, and the more you hone it the more you have. But it can be eroded, and under enough duress it collapses. When you believe that your life has fallen to such a point at which no amount of effort and time can return you to life's peak again, your fall is infinite.

I feel for your loss, and your coworker's desperation. Men, and women (if any read this), understand that you can hit rock bottom and still bounce back. Suicide is easy, but life's a game, and games are boring on easy mode. The challenge of living is what drives us all, and truly successful people hold nothing back.

Like going to the gym, sometimes it's a chore to get up every day. Sometimes you're starting from square one, looking at all the stronger people around you and knowing that you're years away from such results. We go to the gym because we know our hard work is worth it. So too is life.

[–]Butimdifferent[S] 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Youre talking about the 'what' and my message is about the 'why'. We have all selfishly thought about what the world would be like without us. Yes, John took his own life. This is established. The dead can answer no questions, so we must fill in the blanks on our own. It seems the story of John is a common one for men in his position. How many men will become John without even knowing it? This is the 'why'.

[–]JihadDerp 5 points6 points  (0 children)

With a strong enough "why" you can overcome any "how". That's the gist of Victor frankl's book "a man's search for meaning" about finding purpose after everything and everyone you know was destroyed in Auschwitz.

[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You lost me at 'suicide is easy.' If you understood the mindset of someone driven to such a measure I think you would know that it's not easy. For someone who lives in an inescapable living hell, ending their life often becomes in their minds the only rational way to end their constant, ceaseless suffering.

Also, comparing the daily struggle of living for a severely depressed person to going to the gym is absurd. Undoubtedly the gym may feel like a chore sometimes, but when you do it it gives you something back: pleasure, pain, visual improvements, observable strength gains. It gives you feedback and a reason to keep doing it. By comparison, someone resorting to suicide often does so because they perceive no positive feedback from their life whatsoever. Nothing holds any pleasure or meaning for them, and nothing improves. The overwhelming domination of negative feedback gives them with no reason to keep doing what they are doing - which is merely surviving.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (2 children)

If guys everywhere stop getting married willy nilly and learn to wrap a rubber around it then it won't be anybody ever again.

[–]LadyLumen 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think this is starting to happen and women are starting to take notice. I.E. guys are no longer sticking around to take care of pregnancies, men aren't proposing to their girlfriends, less young men are looking into competitive lucrative careers because they don't care about raising a family. And why should they? I'm in my mid twenties and most of my guy friends around my age have part time jobs in retail or some freelance music/art gig. Whereas most of the women I know around my age are more competitive in looking for real careers so they have some hope of having a family some day.

This is also happening large scale. Something like 50% of mothers in America are single mothers and a large part of couples with children are unmarried. Also, with a majority of families where the parents are under 30, women are actually the breadwinners.

So when the majority of women get tired of being single mothers who work two jobs a day and paying for the boyfriend's meals, society will change.

But my prediction is that it'll go into an extremely conservative direction. This is why 75% of the British people who convert to Islam are women. Women are tired of Feminist life because it's draining. They want the Patriarchy back but just aren't admitting as much.

[–]ShekelBanker 6 points7 points  (0 children)

When I thought a female who hires a lawyer to suck money out of a man via divorce is bad, a female lawyer takes the cake, by a long shot.

[–]Philhelm 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Frankly, it is a difficult world for men, despite some of the talk about how we should forge our own destiny and be men. According to some statistics from the U.S. Department of Labor, there were more women employed within the U.S., and more women graduating from college. Of course, women tend to not work as competitively as men, but with feel-good laws and hiring practices, many men are left out in the cold.

Government jobs generally provide vastly higher income and benefits than the private sector equivalents, but women (and minorities) tend to enjoy preferential hiring policies, further allowing women to out-earn men.

This is disastrous since the social factors are often ignored, because the world does not give one shit about us. If a woman is, say, unemployed and living in her parents' basement, she can still find sympathy and support, and can still easily find sexual relief (which is important for a man's well being, in my opinion). A man in a similar situation is considered to be lower than dirt. Men don't care if a woman earns a low income, but the inverse is not true. Add in divorce rape, and unless the man makes well above the average income, he will likely be in terrible shape financially, and therefore ostracized by society, and women in particular.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

As someone who attempted suicide before and came back from the edge 3 months ago I understand the urge to commit suicide. It has many reasons, but the ultimate is to get out of life free card. You don't have to worry about a job, money, child support, and the grind of life. Imagine no responsibility for anything anymore including yourself. You are free, but its a different kind of freedom. The freedom we think of here is a life of financial well being and living a life for yourself and doing what you want. That freedom is mired in struggle and pain though. Suicide is much the same in that it spawns in struggle and pain. The difference is that suicide is the freedom from life. Life is a constant struggle and suicide is the opt of that struggle. Its the fuck you and your game life im out! Then no more games or struggles. So maybe he reached the fuck I point. It's not a hard point to reach. If you know what rock bottom feels like than you know how easy it is.

That's my two cents as to why

[–]Slothlemur 0 points1 point  (0 children)

staying the game can really be harder than throwing up the chessboard, it makes me wonder if our neanderthal ancestors ever offed themselves. But even for the lion that challenges the alpha lion and fails...he continues on (usually) to make his own tribe or a mgtow lone wolf lifestyle. And if we can respect a lone wolf, then we should respect even the mgtows; its better than suicide. The FA people have no self respect/confidence, but mgtows try to make their lives better.

[–]YaBoiTibzz 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Don't get married. Don't have kids. The only weapon you have is your ability to make a clean split at your own discretion. Once that is gone you are fucked.

[–]ROIVeritas 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Do not get attached to anything you cannot walk out on in 30 seconds or less, IF you spot the heat around the corner.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

RIP John, I didn't know you but from this I hear you made peoples' lives better. It's a shame that you were brought to suicide by a stupid cunt but rest easy knowing that she will get it 10 times worse.

[–]urallphux 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Avoid drugs and alcohol in abundance and you will be better equipped than this man was to deal with hardship.

[–]self_made_guy 3 points4 points  (1 child)

May he rest in peace. Another man lost to the plantation.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yup - and another wallet harvested by wymyn until there was no cash left on the fruit's rind.

[–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My mind can only make up so many scenarios as to what happened and why...but the one that keeps pushing itself forward the most is that John wasn't able to find work, and couldn't support himself anymore. If he couldn't support himself, then how was he going to pay to see his kids?

Let me paint a better picture for you then. This is much more than the surface you are seeing. You are only looking at the moment of his suicide and not what led up to it. This is the years of abuse and emasculation that his wife did to him that led to this point.

His wife is a lawyer and made the money in the family. If a man doesn't make the money then he isn't the leader and if he isn't the leader she doesn't respect him. It's also the way he was treated by his friends and family during that time. When a guy is a stay at home dad no one respects him. His parents constantly bug him about what he's going to do with his life. His friends make jokes about him to his face like "I wish I could take a vacation like that" and it never stops. No one respects a stay at home dad or thinks of him as a man. If we aren't producing then society doesn't give a shit about us.

At the end of it, it wasn't about his kids but about how little he believed he was worth. He probably believed that everyone in his life was better off without him due to how much of a hit his confidence took every day. Women are naturally bullies to men they don't respect and this lady took it out on him every single day they were together.

Learn from his story and never choose to be like that. Don't let your confidence get destroyed by someone that is supposed to love you. Don't get married

[–]TekkomanKingz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why in God's name would you marry a female Lawyer is beyond me, especially if you are a broke Man...This is the Morale of John's story. Don't marry a female Lawyer. There are not a lot of them. They can't be that difficult to dodge.

[–]gexxx007 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The single man is a happy man. Don't settle down with a chick and certainly don't have kids with her. She'll suck the fucking money and life out of you.

[–]chrisindub 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I applied for my new york medical license, and guess what questions they ask?

"Do you owe child support?"

That's right, if you have missed child support payments, the state will make it harder for you to work.

It applies to men and women though.

[–]1Zanford 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How the fuck was he ordered to pay child support when HE was homeless and SHE was a lawyer!? Shouldn't she have been paying HIM alimony.

And he was a stay at home dad too! Reverse the genders and this would never happen. The stay at home mom would get custody, and alimony, and child support.

[–]Stradivorius 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I´m sorry,man. This completly killed the last remaining thought of marriage i had in my mind ( currently 22 so that was a long way off). Fuck everything about society today. Might as well pack up and go live in a cabin in the woods. If it comes to it we might as well just get vasectomys and deny them kids. Better to die alone having lived a good life than married and miserable.

[–]1Padre55 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Wow, have empathy for this guy.

For myself, the takeaway is how much emotions can over rule just common sense, self preservation, drive and what matters in life.

Personally, if he had sales skills, should have worked for himself under the table (cash money biz), sought a downward adjustment in child support payments, and told no one how he was earning his living.

[–]SemperFiWashout 5 points5 points [recovered]

When drowning at sea, if you are submerged past a certain point (think of escaping a sinking ship) when you are in the water, the external pressure is high enough that it screws up your sense of up/down. At this point you swim, hoping you're going up, but truthfully you have no way of knowing, and many people are simply swimming sideways or down. I get this information from the drowning physiology discussion in The Perfect Storm by Sebastian Junger. The book goes into the details of death by drowning.

I think this applies to pre-suicidal people. I think they hit a point where they simply can't tell which way is up. Panic sets in. They need air.

I have also heard that suicidal appeal develops when stressors exceed the power of coping mechanisms.

Random thoughts.

[–]traveling_morgue 1 point2 points  (0 children)

One of the better comments in this thread, not sure why I'm the first upvote.

[–]SomeClassyDude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

:( That is awful. He sounds like a fucking great guy.

[–]Glenbert 1 point2 points  (9 children)

From what John told me, he was a stay at home dad. He had managed some restaurants before and had some jobs here and there, but the last several years of the marriage was him taking care of the kids. He had to pay her child support.

How is this even possible of he had no income? Really?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 2 points3 points  (8 children)

It's very hard to get the courts to make changes to your payment duties in an expedient manner. You could lose your job and be on the hook for 6 months before any court decision corrects it.

There's no net negative in the eyes of society. Either the man finds a way to pay, or he goes to prison, or he offs himself. No loss.

A man that cannot provide value has no intrinsic worth. Important to remember that.

[–]Glenbert 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Right, but he was already not working. x% of $0 = 0. How do you squeeze blood from a stone?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 1 point2 points  (5 children)

You throw him in jail.

A weak man being removed from society is not a negative in anyone's eyes.

[–]Glenbert 0 points1 point  (4 children)

No, I get that. And I understand (ir)rationale behind it. But I'm pretty sure that alimony and child support are calculated as a percentage of your current wages. And there is a precedent for stay at home Dad's receiving alimony and child support if they are the custodial parent. While there is de facto gender bias in family court, I don't believe that there is literal, codified, de jure gender bias.

There's also the fact that this guy was a little off and may have been telling OP a huge steaming pile of BS.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The problem is getting the court-ordered update. Your payments are set as a percentage of your salary at the time of the court order. It doesn't change as your income changes, unless it's ordered. If your income goes up, your ex has to challenge it in court to get that extra percentage (though 'challenge' is probably not the right word, as it's all but guaranteed)

If your income drops, the payments aren't nullified. You have to take it up with the courts to have them reduce it. You can imagine this is hard if you lose your job, particularly if your court date is half a year off.

The guy in the story may not have been right in the head, but this is a very real detail of child support laws. My uncle had to go through it, it's brutal.

[–]Glenbert 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I've actually read up on it and everything you say is true. I guess the protagonist was earning some kind of side income or working for himself then. I had inferred that he had no income in the last years of the marriage leading to the divorce.

The greater point that I wanted to get to was that if you are going to get a divorce thrown at you, then being an unemployed stay at home dad is possibly the best position to be in.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (1 child)

problem is he'd only be the 10,000th such case I've heard of so that many doesn't sound like they're all making it up.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1) they lie, assign an income because they refuse to accept 0 as an answer

2) they put him in jail and inmates do the work they're ordered to do aka SLAVERY

[–]pipnewman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your last line was rather poignant. I've heard these stories before about marriage and how much it sucks. But saying that could be you someday makes it very real and brings it back into focus.

[–]eclectro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They were his last shining light. But as an aging man, I don't think he has much chance in today's world to make anything more of himself.

As much as TRP topics come into play, let's call this what it really is - age discrimination that has no voice in today's world. Not as much TRP imho.

[–]red_gerb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

back during the US housing crash, I couldn't sleep and went outside for some Summer night fresh air. It was Saturday 2AM, and I heard a gunshot, powerful, definitely not a .22. It was muffled, like it was in a house. I had the general direction but not a clue as to which house since it's a suburban neighborhood. Haunts me to this day.
Improve yourself, never give up, have some purpose(s), never say never, and laugh. No one gets out alive.

[–]funkyhunky3000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My condolences. Thank you for sharing this with us.

[–]LadyLumen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Used to work at a daycare and some kid's mom was a lawyer who divorce raped his dad. As a result his dad became a drunk. The kid himself had a LOT of issues (like trying to molest other boys at the daycare). The only person he ever listened to was his dad, but it's a shame he only saw his dad one weekend out of every two weeks.

[–]JohnStamosEnoughSaid 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I just listened to Dave Foleys divorce story on the Rogan podcast and wow does it ever say alot about marriage laws in Canada. How he kept it together i have no idea how people in general are so mean to each other.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ya... Canadians are all polite, eh? Until divorce & family court - then the knives come out and you wish you only got the shit beat out of you on the ice.

[–]Sameoo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Another post showing that when women gets power, the world turns shit. They're too fucking jealous and narrow minded.

[–]Patrick2787 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I read this it reminds me of some of the lessons I have learned from men I've worked with. It really does pay once in a while to listen to older people with more experience in life, learning from their mistakes. RIP John

[–]1Trellink 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Marriage needs to end. Just as Jim Crow and Don't Ask, Don't Tell ended as institutions. Its relevance is at an end.

[–]SquareScrewdriver -1 points0 points  (1 child)

the difference is that I wouldn't have been able to opt out of him Crow. I can an have oted out of marriage. B4L. Bachelor for Life.

[–]someguysomewhere321 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don't think his problem was unsolvable, but given that he had turned to alcohol, his will was probably not the strongest.

The lesson from this: never love like a woman or you're likely to end up as an emotional mess.

[–]skekze 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In Life there is possibility, in Death - certainty. Sometimes the fear is worse than the fall. Yet, after a fall and a break, we find what we're made of. Peace to all the broken. You'll get there in time, so have some sanity and fun in the meantime. Life isn't a comedy or a tragedy, it's both. So laugh as much as you scream.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Read all the replies. You guys are arguing philosophical principles of causality, determinism, and need to analyze your definition of Freedom.

You guys are talking about circumstance and choice. Gun to your head you have a choice, some would agree some would disagree.

From this determination of causality, choice, and blame you are making a moral argument.

Morality is completely dependent upon culture which constantly changes. Morality is absurd and ultimately illogical.

This mans ability to choose, we act as if choice exists completely independent of circumstance or is wholly subjugated to it.

"there but for the grace of god go i"

Did he really have any choice, do I? Can we all just blame circumstance and the fuzzyness of quantum mechanics gives rises to probabilities even still you would be subjugated to these probabilities still limiting your choice.

We can all agree circumstances shape our reality, what we cant agree on is how much circumstance alleviates you of blame.

[–]1User-31f64a4e 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I just don't get this. Someone attacks you, so you kill yourself? Seems the aggression is pointed in the wrong direction, in instead of out.

[–]sweetleef 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thought processes are very different from the inside than from the outside, and it's very easy to judge from the detached comfort of a keyboard. Real despair is a bitch, and it's impossible to understand unless you actually are in it.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (1 child)

it's not "someone" it's EVERYONE. The state draws tax dollars of us all and uses those tax dollars to pay mafia called police to put him in a cage called jail if he can't pay the ex-wife.

[–]thenarrrowpath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hate some of the bitterness I see on here about not getting married and the anger phase many are in. But it makes me wonder if John hadn't gotten married, would he be a better man who hadn't hung himself out of love for his children and shame of himself? Will that be me someday? Will that be you?

Eerie, really eerie man but it really hits home. Thanks for sharing. Sorry about your friend.

[–]1Yakatonker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

John's death was unnecessary, his existence for the last years of his life were perpetuated feeding the monster that was his wife. John likely realized this and the futility of his life situation, he determined that the value of his life reached a negative critical and that the possibility of recension was not possible with his age, so he made a logical decision and ended his misery.

Feminist society fucked John over, the potential of his own life to self develop and be more then disposable male trash to his wife or to this shitty ass society. The real truth is that not one of us gives a fuck about the other, instead that deficiency is externalized in a tool called governance, which redistributes our earnings to the most vulnerable in society, however even that is flawed as all the money goes to women and children. Its deficiencies in the human animal all the way, though thankfully there is an enlightened class bringing us globalism through the externalized tool that is micro/macro economics.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When even a very rich, well-liked and motivated man like Robin Williams can't keep it up and turns to this end - no wonder this guy figured out the exact same thing.

End it before the bitch kills you of a heart-attack induced by wallet-ectomy.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Won't be me - I learn from the suffering of those that walked the path before I get near it.

[–]mstersmith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Learn brothers. RIP to this man. Sounded like a solid guy under extreme stress.

[–]FortunateBum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just curious: Why did he leave the first dealer?

[–]PeteMullersKeyboard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very sad. I've met people like this before, minus the suicide. There's something very tragic about someone who is in this position.

Of course, everyone has personal responsibility in their own life. But, as we are seeing, situations like this are becoming more and more common. Women have co-opted the legal system to fight their battles. This doesn't end well.

You better be fucking sure before you say those two little words. Not worth whatever hell you will go through otherwise if you aren't.

[–]Dephlated 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Any article? Any way to verify this story? Anything? I'm not trying to defend a woman but shit, can I at least get something to know this isn't bull before I start bashing this woman?

[–]theshadowonthewall -1 points0 points  (3 children)

I hate some of the bitterness I see on here about not getting married and the anger phase many are in. But it makes me wonder if John hadn't gotten married, would he be a better man who hadn't hung himself out of love for his children and shame of himself? Will that be me someday? Will that be you?

Stop thinking too much, stop speculating. I have known people that appeared to have the perfect life, and for what ever reason lost the will to live. One woman I knew, she was really good looking, had a husband who was a doctor, she had two kids, nice house.

She had a few personal problems, but when I talked her she seemed pretty good. A week later a mutal friend told me she was found dead in her garage. After she had sent her kids to school, she went into the garage, sat inside the car, started the engine and they found her there dead.

People just sometimes lose the will to live.

[–]Butimdifferent[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

At this point there will only ever be speculation. Its not like I can call thebguy upstairs and ask what happened. I hear about stories of men who commit suicide when they feel like they have no options left. I guess this really hit home for me as it is a typical story of a man taking his life that I read online...except its not online anymore. How many good men cant live with themselves anymore? Ive been with my girl nearly 4 years now. I bet John a long time ago was thinking getting married and having kids would be fulfilling as a man. Now he has left this world as a shell of one. I know it is up to me to keep myself intact, but I am no seer. I dont know what will happen tomorrow despite my best efforts. When I think of John, I see myself hanging from the ceiling. It is a sobering thought realizing this kind of thing happens more often than we are led to believe.

[–]sir_wankalot_here 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I think of John, I see myself hanging from the ceiling. It is a sobering thought realizing this kind of thing happens more often than we are led to believe.

Things become real when you experience them first hand. Anyone that gets suicidal urges and they think will act on them, should go out an talk to someone right away. They don't need to actually tell them they had suicidal urges, just something to break the impulse. Most of my friends are crazy, so if I would tell them I feel like killing myself, they would tell me to stop being stupid and lets go have a beer. Normal people act wierd when you tell them you have suicidal inpulses.

Worst case scenario, find something like AA or another anonymous group and talk to someone there. Even if you are not an addict, they will still talk to you and it is anonymous.

A few people I knew who killed themselves and a few that made serious attempts. The first time it happened, I was in shock and it bothered me for a long time. After a while I got desensitized to it.

Honestly I thought about it before, but then I thought about all the people that hate me, and how they would be happy if I killed myself. And being the asshole I am, I want to be on this earth a little longer to stop them from feeling this happiness 😃

Maybe an asshole thing to say, but be happy you are not John. And make sure you don't end up like John. If things get really dark, find something to cling onto and don't let go, as long as you are breathing there is hope.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Curious how those people seem to be well-represented among recently divorced males.

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