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Rant/Venting

Don't be a slave

(self.TheRedPill)

submitted by TRP VanguardArchwingerx3

Society and civilization, for all the good they provide, slap us squarely across the face and rape us up the ass with one singularly painful drawback: to be a man in society is to be a slave.

Society’s path for you - for all of us - is clear. To placate us with pornography, sports, alcohol, video games, creature comforts, the illusion of a path to success, the illusion of remuneration for our labors, while extracting maximum productivity from us until the day we die. We trade something priceless, that we will never recover – time – in exchange for something governments around the world have made up – money. We then spend that money on pornography, alcohol, overpriced food, creature comforts, a nice apartment or big suburban home, a fancy car, fancy clothes, cable television, cellular telephones, fake wooden furniture, fifty trips to Bed Bath & Beyond for clutter our wives think is cute, and then we need to get paid again. The endless cycle of sacrificing our very life essence for more of this worthless stuff continues.

The true beneficiaries of our labors? The women and children we support. Feeding yourself is cheap and easy. Feeding a family actually isn’t that hard either. But supporting a wife, one or more children, and all of the stupid shit they think they need? Shit you would never buy if society hadn’t convinced your mentally pliable family that everyone ought to have it? Painful. That diamond engagement ring you got your wife? Four months’ salary – 640 hours of sitting at a desk somewhere if you’re white-collar, or doing something backbreaking if you’re blue-collar. That suburban home? 40-80 hours a month to pay the bank, 95% of that payment being interest on a six-digit loan. You’ll be done paying that off in 30 years. That’s about 60,000 hours of work, give or take. Paying for your kid to be in little league? That’s a few extra hours a month at the office. A bigger chunk if you have to buy some equipment this month. That queen-sized bedroom set with matching dresser, nightstands, and an awesome memory foam mattress your wife loves? There goes an entire month at work, plus all the overtime you put in before Christmas, plus your Christmas bonus. Every trip to Pottery Barn, every time your wife logs into Amazon, 20 bucks here, 50 bucks there – don’t think of that as dollars. Think of that as your time, your sweat, your blood, your very life essence. Every time your wife logs into Amazon, she’s spending dozens of the limited hours of your life in about ten minutes buying birthday presents for her friends’ kids and baby shower gifts for her cousins. You’re working like a slave so that she can win social points within her circle of friends.

And when she’s out with them spending your money on ten-dollar cocktails, she’s badmouthing you.

Why does society care about you supporting your family? Because if you didn’t, society would have to foot the bill. And for many people, society does. Your government takes 20-40 percent of that worthless money you sacrifice your life to earn and spends it supporting people who aren’t you. Once a year, they make you do a bunch of paperwork, and if you figure out that you’ve actually given them too much money over the course of the year in the form of an interest-free loan, they give you a chunk of that money back, without interest. You feel like you’ve won the lottery! What a great government!

From the day we’re born, we’re raised by weak-willed, self-important, narcissistic, feminized parents – each generation worse than the last. We’re placed in schools that indoctrinate us into a culture of rules and socialized behaviors, that teach toward standardized tests and focus the entirety of their resources on bringing the dumbasses of the world up to just slightly below average. The slaves-in-training that rattle their chains are diagnosed with disorders that just a few short decades ago didn’t even exist, and are force-fed mind-altering drugs to curb their disruptive masculine impulses. Not that long ago, disliking school, homework, studying, and sitting still for 8 hours at a time was pretty common for an eight-year-old boy. Now it’s a psychological disorder. Being a boy is a psychological disorder.

By the time we hit puberty, we’ve been taught that sexual impulses are evil, and our only shot at a decent life is to do exactly what we’re told, buckle down, finish school, then spend massive amounts of money (or accrue incredible debt) going to more school, where in the pursuit of a degree, we take a few required courses to learn that nine tenths of us are apparently rapists and that for generations, we have oppressed and enslaved women. Thank God all of us are in that other ten percent. When all that’s said and done, it takes us forever to finally find gainful employment, despite all of our education, and we don’t earn that much more than we would have without it. But we’re happy to have any job so we can finally start buying all of the shit we’ve been told we need, to demonstrate what great providers we’ll make for a family one day.

Because that’s what we’re told our goal in life needs to be. We’ve done it all to prepare ourselves to one day meet a good woman, marry her, have kids, and support a family. If you’re not married and taking care of a family – good care, not just passable care (meaning lots of money, not just adequate money! Only losers have a savings account or save for retirement.) – then you’re not a real man. You’re just a child. What’s that? You don’t make the required minimum salary of $5,000 times your age? Don’t worry. Nowadays, you don’t have to save money until you can afford to buy cars and furniture and televisions. You can just get them now for 29.99 a month here, 59.99 a month there, 74.99 a month there, and pay them off in 5, 10, 20 years. Whatever. You can start saving for retirement a little later, and have that big-screen TV now, right? I mean, surely you won’t be working until the day you die to buy shit for your wife, right?

Meeting the right woman is pretty hard nowadays. Women are waiting a lot longer before getting married, even though they sure do seem to spend a lot of time at bars and clubs and house parties and girls’ nights looking for the right man. And they sure do seem to have a hard time figuring out who’s a good provider versus who’s just good-looking. A lesser man might think they’re just putting off marriage and fucking hot guys until they’re too old and the hot guys don’t want them any more. But that’s an evil line of thinking.

If you expect a woman to like you, spend time with you, maybe even have sex with you, simply because you’re a great guy who treats her well, that’s sexist. You are to approach a woman with your head bowed, and beg for the privilege of picking her up in your fancy car so that she can judge your wealth, then taking her out to eat and to participate in entertaining activities. Only if she finds you sufficiently interesting does she deign to spend further time with you, at your expense. You are to ask for nothing of her and to expect nothing of her. You’re essentially buying her time with no guarantee of sex, kind of like an escort. Deep down, you wonder if that muscular guy from the club she used to date before you had to do all this before he got any.

Eventually, most guys who really want to get married will find someone to support. And even though 50% of marriages don’t last, we all think we’ll be different since we’re serious about marriage. We’re going to take good care of our families. We’re not going to cheat. We’re going to work hard. We’re going to treat our wives and kids like queens and princesses and princes and give them the best life we can, even if it means sacrificing ourselves in the process.

And even though our wives piss all over us and minimize everything we do for them and badmouth us when we’re not around, we’re okay with that. That’s just playful banter. It’s funny. TV sitcoms tell us it’s funny. And if we ever stop raising the bar and stop doing more and more for them, we’re greeted with anger, seething hatred, blazing disrespect, and threats of divorce, so we promise to do better.

And then we’re surprised when we learn that a lower libido in marriage is not, in fact, normal, and that our wives’ libido is quite healthy. At least it is when she’s fucking some loser from her part time job. And that it doesn’t matter how much we gave or how much we loved or everything we sacrificed, or which party cheated on who. She gets the kids, the house, the majority of your assets, and if the court-ordered check you send her every month is a single penny short, you go to jail. So even after your wife leaves you and takes your children, you’re still supporting your family from afar.

But don’t worry. You just didn’t meet the right girl. That one didn’t work out. Don’t be bitter. Marry another one and support her, too. Love’s more important than money anyway, right?


[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan 274 points275 points  (53 children)

This reads like a brilliant manifesto of Briffault's Law. When the woman sees no further benefit from association with a male, then no further association takes place. Whether or not the male is actually providing her benefit is of no consequence. Reality matters not; only her perception is important.

This is fundamentally why marriage today is as broken as it is. Whatever a man does for a woman is viewed as "special" only insofar as that act remains one of rarity. Once a benevolent act is repeated, it is no longer viewed as "special", it is now viewed by the woman as "common" and "expected". Look at Valentine's Day, and the marketing and commercialism surrounding it. Getting your woman chocolates and jewelry is no longer "special"; because if you don't do these things, society tells a man he is literally a piece of dog shit.

This all boils down to a simple principle: common things are not valuable, rare things are valuable. Dirt is common and worthless; gold is rare and valuable. And the more and more our feminine-imperative society demands from men, the more worthless we become over time.

And as /u/Archwinger so eloquently put it, what we are really trading for all of these vapid 'expectations' is our time. Henceforth, men's time just becomes more and more worthless as expectations upon our time continues to rise in society.

Which is why I stick to the old mantra when it comes to marriage: the only way to win today is not to play. Keep spinning plates. Keep your investment in women low, and keep the things you trade your time for as rare as gold.

Be the Alpha that can tingle a woman, and make her view the bag of Skittles you buy for her as being more valuable to her, than the 5,000 square foot mortgaged house her Beta husband is working his ass off for her to live in.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 185 points186 points  (21 children)

Got my haircut the other day, and the hairdresser asked me what I was doing for V day. I mentioned how I didn't care much for it and its just another night for me. After mentioning I had plans but wasn't getting roses or anything, She tried 6 TIMES to get me to at least get the girl I was meeting with a hallmark card.

The conditioning of women's entitlement has become so bad that a complete stranger will fight to try to get you to a buy a woman they don't even know a gift. Real.

[–]maddenmadman 91 points92 points  (14 children)

Hard out man, the poor dude who cut my hair the day before valentine's day said he was spending $1000 on a private lunch in a hot air balloon for his fiancee and couldn't believe me when I said I wasn't doing anything for my girlfriend.

Why should I let society dictate when and how I have to spend my hard earned money on the woman who I let into my life? I'll make her feel special when I determine it is right to do so.

[–]Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin 41 points42 points  (4 children)

I remember the first and only time I got flowers for a girl on Valentines Day. It felt like the most ungenuine, and unappreciated gift I have ever given. Never again.

The best gift I have ever given to a girl was a small beach sand souvenir from Cali, which must have cost me around 5 dollars. It was unexpected, and the girl I gave it to was genuinely lit up with joy because of it. Years after it, she always reminded me how she still had it and she still carried it in her purse. I'm sure she still has it after almost 10 years.

[–]laere 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Big diffetence between cliche gifts and something genuine, for sure.

[–]TekkomanKingz 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I guess it's not always "the thought that counts" huh? LOL

[–]MrExpress 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When ever I think about giving gifts to people I always think about how different the things that men and women see as good gifts. With my parents for example. If I wanted to get my dad a gift for his birthday it would be so easy for me, a golf club, a warm jacket, a good pair of boots. These are functional gifts that he could USE. My mother though it would be a bracelet, an earring or flowers and chocolate. These things or for show or just taste good.

[–]Rooi_Aap 22 points23 points  (2 children)

$1000! That is a lot of haircuts...

[–]JACKDOGBOB 2 points2 points [recovered]

Probably around 50 or more haircuts depending on where you go.

[–]Rooi_Aap 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In my parts that is about 100-130 at a barbershop. Now put in perspective that the barber dude might only see a percentage of the money per haircut in his pocket (shop rent, if he is an employee: boss' cut etc), so you are looking at a couple of hundred haircuts.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This is so true. I will reward my gf when she deserves it. Not because it happens to be a certain day. Or at least that is how ot should be

[–]Pm_MeyourManBoobs 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Haha $1k straight down the tubes. He didn't get fucked that night, guaranteed.

[–]JACKDOGBOB 3 points3 points [recovered]

Even if he did, is getting laid really worth 1K? I mean come on thats just pathetic.

[–]AlkaloidSwag 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you could honestly hire 2 pretty good escorts for that kind of money and have an epic 3 way.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I just made my GF read about Japanese valentines day traditions instead. 1 box of chocolate for me. Nothing for her. Damn I love Valentines day. And the reaction. Oh and in March I buy one for her when all the gifts are on sale. (White day)

Win / win.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 7 points8 points  (1 child)

That's one of the things I appreciate about not being from the US. You can always sell your stance on V-day as "I don't follow US traditions on principle" and will get away with it.

[–]iwannagethugeee 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I feel that. I just followed GLO's advice in a previous post - just buy some lingerie and go out to lunch. She loved it, and the opportunity to make her feel sexy was much cheaper than a fancy meal.

[–]1beerthroway 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Which is why I don't like going to female hair stylists anymore. When I was younger I liked the fact that they were pretty girls, but then I learned how boring they are and not the best conservationists. I prefer male barbers and barbershops.

[–]Gotmilkyy 54 points55 points  (24 children)

The way he portrayed money was fantastic. Money earned=Your time

There's probably a more eloquent way to put this but this is what I got out of it. When you, or anyone, spends money it's like spending someone's time.

10/10, completely changed my perception. Thank you, Archwinger.

[–]fruguy 31 points31 points [recovered]

Money is stored time/energy.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 110 points111 points  (17 children)

Time is the ultimate resource.

Time can be converted into anything. Money via work. Pleasure via play. Strength and skill via training. It can also be squandered by just sitting around doing nothing.

But no resource can be converted back into time. Once time is gone, it's gone for good.

Spend it wisely.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (14 children)

Not true. Having money can buy you medical treatment/a good lifestyle that will extend your lifespan. Hiring people to do jobs for you such as plumbing, fixing the electricity and such also saves time. Learning skills such as basic IT will also save you time. The conversion backwards is just not as obvious or quantifiable.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (2 children)

I think that's what he meant by "spend it wisely". All those actions simple lower the time you will spend on something else, none of them actually give you more time. For that you will need a time machine.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Won't argue details.

Reduced time = more available time for other resources. It's why executives have private jets despite the high costs, because their time is valuable and therefore they gain more time to do other tasks by spending money on rapid transportation.

[–]1oldredder 3 points4 points  (10 children)

If you're sick already and it's bad, if you're aging and it's far gone, no money can buy that back.

The only thing that extends your life-span is a long-term since-childhood good diet and that means no garbage junk-food and no over-eating.

Once you're already sick it's too late.

[–]bstc2 2 points2 points [recovered]

If you had a three year period during middle/high school where you got really fat during your parent's divorce since they just had you eat microwave/junk food but you seem to have came out of it alright once having a job to buy your own food, are you screwed in the long-term since-childhood good diet department? As in can those three years permanently screw you over?

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yes, you will already have a shorter life-span because of this. You may not care dying at 70 instead of 80 or 90 but I would care.

Some kids will get so sick with kidney problems or diabetes ... they are indeed at a disability for the rest of their lives before trying to fix it. I guess it depends on your genetics and just how bad that diet got plus exercise is incredibly important.

When I was a kid despite having Atari & Nintendo, also the Sega Master System, I also had a skateboard, bike and went running and climbing small rock-faces and trees and crap.

Now kids are glued to X-Box, PS3 and reality TV. And I guess Minecraft too. I like that game but they're fucking addicted.

Good luck getting those kids into cardio.

[–]bstc2 1 points1 points [recovered]

Well, I'm down to a healthy weight and just recently scored a sub 6 minute mile time on my weight training PE fitness test. I didn't end up with any diabetes or loose skin or anything from it, even though I was BMI 36 at the max, it was kind of a gain weight in 9th grade and have it lost by senior year thing since my parents basically made me quit sports and started feeding me junk at the same time, it was awful. If I didn't end up with any issues from it can it seriously cut my lifespan 20 years? It didn't seem to age me since a lot of people think I look like a freshman/sophomore at my new school for some reason and think it's hilarious that I'm actually a senior, including my weight training partner. So ya hopefully it doesn't cut too much since I want to live to be 100 through eating and exercising perfectly as 7/8 of my great grandparents lived to be or are still alive (5 of them) into their 90s, and my parents/grandparents are doing well for their age.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hard to say - could be you have good genetics, could be something's happened no one will notice for 50 years.

Glad to hear you're doing better now

[–]MyRedPillLife 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Think about the huge gap between public and private healthcare. Sure, they may not perform miracles but statistically the latter is more effective than the former.

I always felt that public hospitals are a moral front placed by the government to be used as scapegoats/excuse when someone cannot afford to buy his way into a proper bed with proper monitoring.

I once tried to get into a manga series called "Monster". The first 2 or so chapters essentially displayed that: The head of the clinic ran towards treating a mayor because it would boost their overall reputation while making dosh and let a poor man die, shrugging it off as "we did the best we could". And yes, they cannot treat everything under the sun but the small percentage they can matters by a lot.

It has been said only a dozen of times in this sub that the the most pure form of discrimination is the one between the rich and the poor. I cannot agree more.

[–]1oldredder 3 points4 points  (4 children)

what? This is utter nonsense. Public healthcare is literally the most efficient healthcare there is because you get a gigantic boost in bulk purchasing and a gigantic relief that a tiny fraction of taxes covers it all.

US healthcare doesn't raise quality of life or life-span vs Canada and yet costs 10x to 100x as much.

I'm in Canada. We're living the dream on this one. My cost of living is literally not even 30% of the equivalent person for the same services in the USA. My healthcare won't even cost me $300 in a year much less in a month.

Private healthcare always over-charges and lies about what is needed for medication/testing to ensure top-billing. There's a huge crack-down in this taking place now but I won't push hard on this - there's fraud in public healthcare too. The prices, however, are all much, much lower.

And in both cases what I wrote is still true:

If you're sick already and it's bad, if you're aging and it's far gone, no money can buy that back.

[–]MyRedPillLife 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I just think you're lucky to be born in a place where public healthcare is treated differently. I'm from eastern Europe and I've spent the last few days going from one public hospital to another escorting a parent, waiting for hours in queues until we decided to get a loan from a neighbor to buy her a proper doctor. Not everyone is part of the first world where you're from. This is already a difference of money between us in terms of countries, way before you consider what kind of healthcare money can buy.

Your healthcare is awesome because you're in the first world. First world means developed country which means MONEY! Would your country be able to provide top notch healthcare if they couldn't afford to maintain it? You just shifted the comparison from "poor person vs. rich person" to poor country vs. rich country and you missed the fact that we're still talking about people. You cannot possibly imply that Bulgaria, Greece and Poland have the same quality of public healthcare with Canada or Germany. It's still a comparison of fat wallet vs. empty wallet. And if you think that all hospitals are equally effective you better take those rose tinted glasses off, because the difference between the highly skilled doctor and the poorly-skilled doctor is not just in how much you pay them for but what you're paying them for. The difference in skill isn't just for demonstration.

What is it that you don't understand?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

There is a book called "Your money or your life" by Joe Dominguez and Vickie Robin. No other book has driven home the Money earned=your time concept for me.

There is in exercise in the book where you calculate your real hourly wage (whether your salary or hourly doesn't matter). In a word, AMAZING. I read that book 10 years ago, and still look at items I buy in terms of hours spent in labor.

$100 pants? nope, 1 1/2 hours of labor. $200 dinner with that girl? nope, 3 hours of labor. I'll cook.

So many ways this mindset helps me orient myself in the world today, from buying shit to evaluating investments to taking on new jobs.

Read the fucking book.

[–]LukesLikeIt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You should watch "In Time" with Justin timberlake, director Andrew Niccol. Explores this concept well.

[–]1cover20 13 points14 points  (1 child)

So, break the conventions. For Valentine's, my wife and I fucked, then I cooked a meal, then she cooked a better meal. Meals are for the kids too, of course.

"I love you" was never said once.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's solid - no one should have down-voted you. You're already in the marriage & it sounds like it went just fine so for those who downvote on the principle of "already married: blue-pill gets downvote" ... waste of time.

[–]DonArturo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This all boils down to a simple principle: common things are not valuable, rare things are valuable. Dirt is common and worthless; gold is rare and valuable. And the more and more our feminine-imperative society demands from men, the more worthless we become over time. [...]

It sounds as though you are alluding to the Diamond-Water Paradox and its solution, the theory of marginal utility.

In terms of marginalism, be the Alpha who knows how to keep the marginal cost of his time & attention sufficiently high so as to ensure it will be valued.

[–]ghaenrynquau -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How do you plan to get children?

[–]marty2k -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You act like it's better now, but women's nature has always been like this. It's just that 60 or so years ago it was a legal requirement to prove infidelity/domestic abuse to get a divorce. The courts were actively suppressing feminine imperative. Just as many women were cheating and hating good husbands, beta but alpha fux was still in full effect. Now, instead of being angry, shrill bitches, they'll take you to court at a change in the wind.

Women are still the same, they're just given free and complete reign.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 125 points126 points  (6 children)

If the rules of the game are stacked against you dont play by the rules.

[–]TurboRaptor 64 points65 points  (1 child)

I was lucky enough to have a badass lawyer as a father and this was one of the most important lessons he taught me. NEVER play by the rules, rather bend them to your favor. similarly, the only "fair" fight is the fight you will lose.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe 28 points29 points  (0 children)

“If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.”

― John Steinbeck

[–]dimarond 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If there is a law, you can bend it. If there is a rule you can break it. (Quote from the Revolver).

[–]NeoreactionSafe 88 points89 points  (25 children)

This is another first rate post... on quite a roll with good quality writing today on the Red Pill.

It's funny how when you actually write out the thought process of the Beta male it becomes painfully obvious what a delusion it really is, but when you live it you can be seduced.

I know until I hit 40 years old (now 53) I was another guy believing in the Beta male dream. Fortunately during the dot.coms I saw such madness going on that I had to rethink everything and that's ultimately what made me drop out of the Rat Race. (that and 911)

Going on 14 years now just coasting on savings... not being a consumer... not investing in women.

I was a MGTOW long before I ever heard of the concept.

And I've owned two large homes... that's something I'm not interested in anymore. My life is extemely simple by choice and there is a freedom associated with owning few possessions.

"Women love houses more than people."

[–]twistyquasar2 10 points11 points  (18 children)

how did you get savings like that

[–]marty2k 23 points24 points  (17 children)

Start saving 10% of every paycheck. Whatever the fuck you do don't touch it! Give up something that takes up that much money (TV, video games, subscriptions, fancy dinners, gadgets) and pretend that's what you spent it on. In just a few years you'll have a good start, and if you keep it up you'll be good.

[–]Kunichi 14 points15 points  (0 children)

That is what "the richest man in babylon" book says. 10 % every paycheck, definitely worth to read.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (6 children)

If you're making half decent money it's really not tough at all to save more than that. Obviously you don't want to cripple your lifestyle but by cooking your own food, fixing your own shit and not buying the junk you see on TV you can save so much money that would otherwise be frittered away on meaningless crap.

I'm currently saving 1/3rd of my paycheque each month, even more when I do overtime and I'm still on the lower rungs of my career.

[–]captainpixystick 1 points1 points [recovered]

Same here, I have two savings accounts where $500 goes into one and $250 goes into the other automatically when I get paid. I don't want to know it's there.

I've been thinking on ways to invest that money to make more money from it.

[–]partylikeits1899 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Etfs. High dividend stocks

[–]JACKDOGBOB 1 points1 points [recovered]

Yes high dividend stocks. Try to get as close to a 5% yield within the selection of blue chip stocks. Not only do these stocks pay dividends, but the principle amount invested increases in value over time, you get a dividend raise every year, and you can keep reinvesting your dividends into more stock shares. I got a $9 an hour part time job in high school that I still work now as a college student. My goal is to graduate college with at least 5K of passive income by investing every penny I earn. I know it doesnt seem like much but its a good start since I am a young guy and can work from there. After getting a bachelor's I plan to get an MBA and have around 7.5K total of annual passive income after 6 years in college. Ive figured that if I just keep reinvesting my dividends and agressively investing my job earnings, financial independence could be achievable relatively early in life. Ideally I would like to get to 52K yearly (1K a week) and then just live for me. I just hope the markets don't crash lol. What I don't seem to understand is why people seem to waste their hard earned money on useless things rather than saving and building up passive income for themselves. I would rather live frugally and be financially independent than just another slave in the rat race working a 9-5 until I drop dead. And I also realize social security definitely will not be there for me. So it will be nice to be self sufficient.

[–]captainpixystick 1 points1 points [recovered]

This passive income, how does this work? How does this get set up?

[–]marty2k 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think better advice than mine would be "save what you can", but giving a definite number that anyone can start with is good. Even guys who make half decent money live paycheck to paycheck with all of their spending and debt.

It's like getting someone on a diet. If they immediately drop all sugary food and hit the gym six times a week, they'll probably give it up by the end of the month. If you slowly add healthy lifestyle changes at fairly small increments it's more likely to stick.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 7 points8 points  (1 child)

When you get your paycheck put it directly in the bank and forget that you put it in there. Continue this for years. At some point you realize you have freedom.

The "trick" is to not increase consumption.

Increase income, but keep spending constant.

Don't get seduced. Don't change you habits... avoid effeminate luxuries. (it's hard I know)

During the dot.coms they would shower us with delicious food and grand parties, but you need to enjoy that but have the will to walk away from it.

[–]marty2k 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It makes me if our society socializes women to want to spend more once they are in a relationship/marriage (rather than it being an evolutionary trait). Like if women are taught to consume and spend more if they are leeching off a guy to prevent him from becoming a stagnant consumer.

If most guys I knew got a 30K raise per year, they would maybe buy a new TV or a different car, but overall would spend and live the same. The rest are in relationships and you know it'd go right down the drains to a new house, luxury shower curtains, expensive romantic getaways, gifts, etc.

[–]partylikeits1899 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Can confirm. I've been dropping 33% of take home pay in a savings account for 5 years and 10%-20% before take home into retirement since I was 24.

I left my career for an entire year in 2014 to accomplish as goal/dream. I got hired back with a big raise and I'm now living off one paycheck and investing the other.

I don't have fuck you money, but if include the 100k valued land I inherited, my net worth is around 315k. I don't own a house and I have no debts at all. I just live in the cheapest studio apartment I could find. I just turned 33

[–]marty2k 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Land is where it's at, man. Do you pay anything on it? If not, you're fucking golden. If everything fails, if you go penniless and can only get a job at McDonalds you can still live comfortably. Grow some food, get solar panels, etc.

[–]partylikeits1899 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nope. Its paid for. Its part of my great grandfathers old farm. 27 acres with a spring and creek. I want to build a cheap place and let it be my base camp. Ive got the money to build a small cabin on the place and it feels good knowing that I'm pretty much already set. I love my minimal lifestyle. My free time is far more valuable than money... Especially when the money is used to horde useless shit that doesn't bring happiness or add value to my life.

[–]twistyquasar2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

thanks for the tip never thought of doing it like that.

[–]MasterFunk 0 points1 point  (2 children)

hoarding money isn't very good for anybody. Imagine every person was hoarding 10% of their money, that would be a lot of money going stagnant.

the idea is save up your 10% until you find an investment and to jump on it like there is no tomorrow

[–]marty2k 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Absolutely. I think you should do a bit of hoarding and saving to build a base and get good spending habits (and to keep a rainy day fund you can withdraw immediately from if need be), but investing is how you can retire at 40 comfortably.

But if you don't build that base understanding of not spending and being able to leave money without touching it, you'll end up just as bad. You can invest, but if you take it out as soon as you gain a few hundred you're back to square one. My grandpa gave all his kids a small portion of stock from the company he worked at. All of my uncles spent that shit on a boat the second they got it, my parents held on to it for 20 years and I was able to go to (a fairly cheap) college debt free while all my cousins are working off their debt to this day. Any my parents weren't loaded, dad was a carpenter mom was a secretary and we had a very small house with few luxuries. But my dad grew up dirt poor and had a lot of respect for money which payed off in the long run.

[–]MasterFunk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

my dad tried to save 10% his whole life, but then mis-fortune after mis-fortune after mis-fortune just screwed him every time he started getting anywhere. Now I'm doing the same dead-end job he did for 25+ years and he's still working. life is scary

[–]IDefyAxioms 6 points7 points  (5 children)

not being a consumer

God, I just don't get that. TRP pushes such an 'anti-consumerism' almost 'mountain man'-like mantra about things to buy, and it has never made any sense to me. I always saw the ability to buy whatever you want, whenever you want as sort of the pinnacle of life; at that point, you have officially won the game.

I grew up very, very poor. Living on monthly wages which lasted approximately two weeks, always in danger of getting evicted from our apartment, every time we got a little bit of money, it disappeared in an unfortunate turn of events (not even related to purchasing 'unnecessary items), accumulating possessions only to have to pawn them off to make rent, that sort of life. All of this was largely due to my parents living their lives in ways that just weren't conducive to supporting a family where I grew up.

As a result, growing up all I wanted was money, stuff, and security. Wanted the best life I could buy. Essentially, the polar opposite of how I came up. And so far, I have molded and positioned my life, lifestyle, connections, and direction in such a way to achieve that. To me, that is freedom. It's fun. It's secure. Never having to worry about if I will have a roof or stuff next week. But I am also speaking from a perspective of youth, and I don't have the past experiences that a lot of people in the sub have.

So, why wouldn't you want that? What turns you off of that lifestyle?

[–]MrMontage 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There is very little that money can buy that is more valuable to me than freedom having the money gives me. If you've got a stash of fuck you money, spend the rest of your cash however you like, but nothing is more valuable or as liberating as a big pile of fuck you money. You don't ever have to do anything you don't want to. What could be more valuable than that? The simpler your materials needs, the less fuck you money you need, meaning the closer you are to achieving that freedom.

[–]Redrog1 8 points9 points  (2 children)

It's fine that you want to do that. But if you are not a moron you'll naturally grow tired of it. Think of the poor beta that suddenly has an epiphany, changes and starts banging club sluts, one after another. You might ask why he keeps banging such low value girls? Well, he could not have that and now he is enjoying his moment. But if he is not a moron, he will grow tired of it and see it for what it is. Sure he will bang a slut when he feels like it but he won't be crazy about it anymore once that phase has passed.

Spend money, enjoy it and then pray you are not a moron.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 7 points8 points  (1 child)

"A Fool and His Money are Soon Parted."

Being a "good consumer" is all part of this feminized society where we are supposed to value ourselves by what we own. It's silly... foolish.

Buy what you need of course, but don't link your emotional attachments to material things.

Poor people often spend their lives working out emotions of neglect and so "the stuff" feeds this empty space in their soul. Cure your insides and you don't need it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Obtain excellence in your craft and what you want to do, and you shall gain true power. Never settle for material things, but never be a foolish idealist who thinks he can get away without money.

[–]fvvx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I grew up in the opposite manner. It's alright if you want to buy stuff and enjoy it but never make it turn you into a slave. I see too many of 'new money' buying stuff they don't need to impress others and struggle with savings.

[–]stolidfact 30 points31 points  (17 children)

Reminds me of that one book, "Your money or your life", which advocates a more minimalistic approach to possessions and following one's passions instead of being a good consumer.

[–]3409852034 26 points26 points [recovered]

That's a fantastic book.

Minimalism can be a great answer:

  • Reduce one's possessions.
  • With fewer things, the need for a large storage space for things (i.e., a large home) vanishes.
  • Rent or mortgage is less since the need to "store" things is reduced, and you can live in a smaller space.
  • Expenses are reduced because you're not buying things, and are paying less rent.
  • Fewer expenses means less money is required to survive.
  • Less money required means the need to work diminishes.
  • Less work means you have more of the precious time that is slipping through your fingers every minute.

Minimalism not for everyone, but the benefit of freedom and time is incredible.

However as Archwinger points out - there is considerable backlash from others that see you bucking the system.

[–]RedPillProphet 12 points13 points  (6 children)

there is considerable backlash from others that see you bucking the system.

Can you elaborate on that? I have gotten A LOT of backlash from family regarding my choice to not marry and have kids but what are some ways ppl fight against minimalism?

[–]3409852034 22 points22 points [recovered]

There are a few ways.

We all need to buy some things to get through life. There's nothing wrong with this. However, a subset of people go a bit further: they invest their ego into the things they buy. They base their personality, validation, and even reason for being around acquiring a car, a house, getting the latest gadget, etc. They feel they've succeeded when they purchase these things. So, some people identify directly with the things they buy. It's not surprising, we're all bombarded with messages to consume.

Minimalism rejects this approach completely. Those people who invest their ego into their possessions interpret this as an attack on their life goals, and even their personality itself. This happens even if the minimalist isn't preachy. The mere existence of a minimalist is like holding up a mirror to their choices. If buying things is the only goal they have, they become defensive.

The reaction usually starts by trying to convince you to consume more ("you should buy a house") to shaming language ("you're a loser for not having X type of car or gadget"). Sometimes it is not as harsh but still dramatic. Imagine some guy who has slaved away for years in a job he hates paying a mortgage. To insinuate (again, passively, only an asshole would throw it in his face) that all that effort is "wasted" can cause some serious self-evaluation and shock.

There are other ways, too: the government gives tax breaks for families, homes, and purchasing. This incentivizes a certain way of living. When you decide not to purse this way of life, society and the government begins to marginalize any lifestyle that's different than the norm. This is a not a huge backlash, but it's still noteworthy.

Also, there's a backlash from women. They like a man with cash. They're impressed by a car and a home. They like to be bought things, taken out, wined and dined. They will judge you based on your possessions. I've not met a women who doesn't do this either actively or passively, no matter how egalitarian they seem. They will forgive this if you are creative or have a strong personality.

Not everyone is like this. Unfortunately, the vast majority of western people respond this way. Consumerism is deeply embedded in Western culture. Minimalism is a challenging concept when we're born expecting to spend our adult lives engaged in work to earn cash to buy things.

[–]RedPillProphet 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The reaction usually starts by trying to convince you to consume more ("you should buy a house") to shaming language ("you're a loser for not having X type of car or gadget"). Sometimes it is not as harsh but still dramatic. Imagine some guy who has slaved away for years in a job he hates paying a mortgage. To insinuate (again, passively, only an asshole would throw it in his face) that all that effort is "wasted" can cause some serious self-evaluation and shock.

This is making a lot of sense now. I have lost count of just how many people have told me to buy a house by now and I am only in my mid 20s.

Or subtly asked me when am I going to buy a new car while there is nothing wrong with my current one.

You'd be surprised to learn that my very religious eastern as fuck family is the worst when it comes to being materialistic. They are frugal with money but militant about saving and amassing wealth. Their consumerism is replaced with an ever deeper greed. They like money so much that they find it hard to spend it even on things.

[–]bluedrygrass 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Even you closest friends may hate you if they see you are freerer than them in the things that count.

Not in the "smoke weed erryday" concept (ever wondered why everyone will always gives you drugs for free, the first time?), but in the "I don't need to waste moneys on my girlfriend" way.

In the "those bullshits thinghs don't bothers me" way.

While they are still full binded to the stupidest, most self-harmful society rules. Even the simple fact of you not having some worries is enough to make some people mad.

[–]fap_the_pain_away 10 points11 points  (0 children)

As far as materialism goes, just say you've gone green/"eco friendly" and the leftists can't complain about your lack of consumption. Instead, they'll give you mad respect and start feeling guilty about the air they're breathing.

[–]1oldredder 8 points9 points  (0 children)

no shit. Some post a week ago here or on asktrp featured a woman screaming (writing) that it's "creepy" that a man is minimalist. I replied it's creepy a woman wants to clutter up a man's space with shit he doesn't need just so she feels better, much less expects / demands him to waste his money on shit he doesn't need to clutter up that space when he knows better.

[–]e312w 8 points8 points [recovered]

"We buy things we don't need to impress people we don't know"

[–]MrMontage 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Who we also in general tend to despise.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which is exactly why we do it: to try to outdo them and make them feel inferior.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I should have searched the comments before writing my own "Your money or your life" comment. This is the best book on personal finance I've ever read.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 65 points66 points  (11 children)

Most men need surprisingly little to not only survive but also to thrive and be happy. Society thus has to drive men to overproduce and overspend via social obligations, especially when it comes to women and children.

The smartest companies are the ones who have figured out how to manufacture social obligation, thus we have:

  • Hallmark Holidays such as Valentine's day, Mother's day, Father's day, Secretary's day.
  • DeBeers promoting the diamond as an engagement gift
  • The modern wedding-industrial complex, wedding registries, honeymoons
  • Baby showers and high-production-value birthday parties for children

Thanks to social obligation, men are not only enslaved, but also willingly go along with the system. All you have to do, in order to break free, is to realize that you don't have to do any of this crap. No more roses and chocolates on Valentine's day. No more fucking diamond rings or tennis bracelets. No more weddings and no more wedding attendance. No more meaningless cards sent out of obligation. No more meaningless birthday/christmas gifts. No more minivans. No more designer furniture or window treatments. No more 5 bed/3 bath/3 car garage home with swimming pool in the suburbs.

Say yes to freedom.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

wedding industrial complex

Lul

My buddy literally saved thousands by adjusting the nomenclature from "wedding" to something else.

[–]trp_angry_dwarf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There was a great story out here in Australia on this. When booking your venue, say it's a party for 200 people and get the quote. Come back later and say wedding and it's at least 25% more for the same service, food, drinks package etc.

[–]Letesse 6 points7 points  (2 children)

"Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suit on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future. Choose life..."

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I must have subconsciously been channeling Fight Club when writing my post. Very appropriate.

Edit: Fight Club, not Flight Club.

[–]TurduckenII 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It sounds more like Trainspotting, but the themes are similar.

[–]1deptii 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Speaking of wedding industrial complex, don't forget the divorce industrial complex. Husband and wife go to divorce court, and while the wife fights for everything, it's the lawyers that are winning.

[–]Hitlers_Boss 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Wait, what if i want the 5bed suburb house anyway though? I dont care about rings and weddings, but a yacht Sounds mighty fine to me.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

My personal goal is to just rent out my own little apartment or condo type thing for myself while buying some real estate (as a portion of my investments) for rental purposes so I can make enough passive income to not even need to work while still in my 30s. Dunno if this is a good plan or not but I have a few years before I can get started on it anyways since I'm only 16 and don't have much money >_> I'm fine with buying 5 bedroom housing for rental purposes but wouldn't really want to live in one I own, seems kind of tie downy and needlessly large.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Put the house in a trust, have the trust rent that house out, you be the tenant and have 4 others live in the other rooms, no one knows you own it, you still pay rent, 100-150 each per week for rent depending on the market and split all the bills, you just need to have the mail for the trust go to a po box so the other renters don't see.

This is my plan anyway, also works if you are living with a woman as well, you don't own the house, you're a renter she leaves and you keep your house.

I need to speak to a lawyer to get the specifics of the process. I plan on owning nothing, but trusts that I control owning all the shit I use.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Marry a rich, homely girl and inherit her father's yacht.

[–]trplurker 14 points14 points [recovered]

I agree with 95% of this post, but I can see that it would be 100% for target audiences in western nations. And jesus have prices really gotten that crazy in the western world? I haven't lived states side for over a decade so not sure what the real costs of living are anymore.

My one nitpick, and it's a small one is about this. I can say this because it's one of the rules I live my life by, time budgeting and management.

We trade something priceless, that we will never recover – time – in exchange for something governments around the world have made up – money.

Time is more certainly far more valuable then money as once it's gone it can never be recovered. You can however pay money to purchase another persons time and thus lower the time-cost to yourself for specific tasks. I pay an older lady 40,000 KRW (about $38 USD) every week to come to my home on a certain day and clean / laundry / dish's. It takes her about four hours to clean everything in my 1500 sq. foot highrise apartment, her prices are a bit higher then average but the quality of her work is impeccable and I've never had a problem with her in the two years I've purchased her services. In this way I am spending my earned money (which is far far more then her rate) to purchase her time and thus save me the time. I view time as a resource and price things according to what I can do with that resource and whenever possible I use other people's lower cost time to save myself time.

Money was not invented by world governments, its merely a form of universal currency used for the exchange of goods and services. If tomorrow all the worlds governments exploded and all fiat currency was worthless, we would start using something else like cans of food, water or other resources. There would still be markets and there would still be people like me who would perceive the real cost of something and barter more efficiently then everyone else and acquire wealth (in this case wealth is raw resources, shelter, weapons and food). Barter is incredibly inefficient as a means of trade and so universally recognized currency replaced it. People like to hate on "money" but it's actually a very good thing. Receiving this universal currency by selling one's own time / services (otherwise known as a job) is not a bad thing, if someone feels they aren't "getting paid enough" then they are either very poor at bargaining or deluding themselves about the real value of their time to someone else. "Slavery" only happens when someone is physically forced, against their well, into doing something they wouldn't otherwise chose to do. This is incredibly rare in first world nations, what most thing is "slavery" is really just people who are lazy as fuck and feel more comfortable selling their time for less then it's worth to someone else who is turning that into a profit. "Bills" are debts owned, meaning someone purchased someone else's time / services / goods but has yet to pay for it, refusing to pay a mortgage, credit card or loan is stealing another persons time / services / goods. If the other party is making egregious profits off someone's poor financial decisions, that's just called opportunism and it's what built the world.

Now child support and alimony (maintenance), that is straight up theft of time / services / goods from the man. There was no agreed upon financial contract that the man entered with the women regarding those expenses, they were decided by a biased third party and forced upon the man, which I find detestable.

[–]1oldredder 3 points4 points  (8 children)

fiat - IOU - money was created by central banks and governments. Gold money, silver money and bartering huge amounts of goods by the ton, nation to nation, even past city-nation to city-nation, was more established by need than by decree.

Barter is incredibly efficient in bulk with goods that everyone needs. It is only inefficient with goods that are not in wide demand, are heavy and/or spoil easily. They, however, are immune to fraud with quick, easy inspection whereas the legally-forced fiat IOU note is fraud in and of itself in all but the most hardy of rulers.

Pretty much in history the only one mentioned is the tally-stick that didn't fall to this fiat nonsense of hyperinflation & failure.

There's a reason for this: if the money supply grows at the wrong rate, too slow or too fast compared to the goods & services combined plus all revolving credit as needed to spur the economy for medium-risk financing, the economy will collapse in the long-run, have volatility in the short-run. It takes a firm hand of guidance and morality to avoid this, basically where greed doesn't overcome the mind of the one in control to do this.

Generally this is why a market is better because the market doesn't have the power to collude to universally gain one party instead of all unless there is no more market and only 1 party is in control of everything again just like a King with a fiat currency controlled by no one else. That process can happen over time as well but it's already in place by default in the major nations of the Earth.

[–]trplurker 8 points8 points [recovered]

Barter is incredibly efficient in bulk with goods that everyone needs. It is only inefficient with goods that are not in wide demand, are heavy and/or spoil easily.

Maybe we're using the wrong definition of efficient. My boots are more valuable then your handbasket but you can't pay me with half a handbasket. If I have ten extra pairs of boots, I would need to negotiate a different compromise for each item I need and ultimately I can only trade with ten people maximum. I can not pay in half a boot. Common currency allows for fractional denominations in transactions.

As for fiat vs fixed value currency, there is a reason everyone went to fiat and is has nothing to do with evil bond villains. Fixed value currencies like gold / silver restrain an investment based economy because your total currency is limited by how much you can pull out of a gold or silver mine and suffer from the exact same artificial price manipulation that DeBeers used with diamonds. Whomever owns the gold mines can chose to limit the supply and force the price up which fucks your economy to hell. And should those mines run dry the government would be forced to mint coins with less and less gold in them, which has the same effect as inflation. It's actually worse because the government needs to actually keep all that precious metal stored in a big vault somewhere doing absolutely nothing useful.

Fiat is a good monetary system, what you and many others are pissed at is the central banking entities in the USA that are entrusted with managing that system. They have an agenda that is not inline with the long term prosperity of the USA. Turning our financial system over to a semi-private corporation was one of the worst decisions the US Government ever made. Fiat currency's are fine as long as no one is allowed to snap their fingers and create a few billion USD worth out of it.

[–]1oldredder -1 points0 points  (6 children)

My version of efficient has no losses system-wide due to fraud from a central controller, so fiat is out immediately.

Tally-sticks are historically cool as the exception but no one's been able to repeat that.

So out of all remaining solutions we look at where value is transmitted with the least loss (inefficiency) since fraud is a massive loss and massive fraud from a central source is unstoppable and system-devastation.

Fiat is a horrible system and literally has destroyed the standard of living for everyone not at the top-level control of it - it's a mafia racketeering operation.

Doesn't matter who the central controller is - all humans are corrupt - no central controller can be permitted. A market-driven barter-ish system is most efficient.

It's fine if each of us wants to write private IOUs with no central controller - bill of goods/services - for various services/items and trade them as private money. That's very stable because it has no system-wide central control. If one fails it doesn't cause the others to fail.

"fixed value currencies like gold / silver restrain an investment based economy because your total currency is limited by how much you can pull out of a gold or silver"

This is the core of system stability - that restraint is survival. Non-restraint is drug overdose. It kills the economy. It's absolute death to stretch the money supply beyond what is producible at the moment for goods+services.

"there is a reason everyone went to fiat and is has nothing to do with evil bond villains."

It's precisely to do with them: that's why ONLY they are allowed to issue the currency and ONLY they get the profits from it. They get the low price of goods before the issuance is felt across the entire market, everyone else gets higher prices. It's racketeering. It's the mafia.

"and suffer from the exact same artificial price manipulation that DeBeers used with diamonds. "

Precise opposite: the debeers situation becomes impossible because everyone can get gold & silver anywhere on Earth there is some (which is a lot of places) so NATURE, not human central control, limits the economic instability.

With DeBeers they can be cracked any day, any time, and diamonds can literally be as common as dirt. The ONLY thing stopping it is they are heavily armed and will murder people for doing it. Since diamonds really are common as dirt if you want a diamond for INDUSTRIAL purposes you're very much able to get one - not from DeBeers at all if you don't want. You can make them for $5/carat in a CVD machine.

Big as a fist if you like.

What deBeers cares about is the JEWELRY market and I say ... let them have it.

Stupid blue-pill fuckers want to spend $30,000 on a rock that really cost $50 or could be made for $5, that's their problem.

"My boots are more valuable then your handbasket but you can't pay me with half a handbasket. If I have ten extra pairs of boots, I would need to negotiate a different compromise for each item I need and ultimately "

To me this is great efficiency because we change everything we own and hold to re-balance for the logistics of trade and items of low value are re-priced and some are not even held, which changes the entire market for what the goods are in it and causes great stability and mobility of PEOPLE, distribution locations and the size of each site for producing this or that good - even more clever technological solutions like factories that can keep switching to produce many things which appear not to be related but actually have a lot in common.

This is technological progress, migratory efficiency and energy efficiency. All from currency stability and barter.

When we go to fiat we misprice everything about transportation, inventory size, demand (especially with highly flexible credit) and the end-result is we get HORRIBLE waste of energy in distances used for travel, in size of sites for manufacturing components & finished parts, overly-specialized factories that must be ENTIRELY DEMOLISHED to start over with the SMALLEST market-shift and worst of all, immigration/trade control that's draconian when in fact entire cities much less industries should be moving around the world without restrictions.

If that world existed we'd have very low unemployment because skilled labour would increase, mobility would increase so people would not be jailed in the "nation" of their 'choice' (not a choice), end-users would be closer to raw-resources and versatile factories would exist which can switch to damn near anything.

Literally our world would be 100x better with the standard of living JUST from having a stable currency made of solid resources, and the direct trade of those resources in what you call "barter".

[–]trplurker 0 points0 points [recovered]

Oh ... your one of those. No reason to even discuss this further.

[–]1oldredder -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Of course not. I'm from the real, actual red pill - zerohedge.com - economics is too hard for most people to understand.

Nation-borders are people-pens, farming people. When people are mobile you can't farm them (tax them, steal their property: they can move faster than you can locate the property or income to take, they can notify others everywhere so your region is deserted and no one returns ever again).

When people move with resources & re-organize everything to minimize real cost (time, energy) everything else fits into place.

There's a reason nature evolves fractal structures, mobility that works with the fluid flows of air & ocean, and durability yet adaptability like nothing else. Nature would never evolve something like "credit" or central control because it fucking fails every time.

Austrian Economics.

Real economics.

Soylent fiat ... the elite's food is made of people.

[–]1RPB1 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thousands of years of historical precedent (all the way back to ancient Athens) in addition to present-day pattern says you're full of shit my good sir.

Fiat currency is created by governments when they want to spend beyond their capacity, so they debase the currency in order to continue inflating. Essentially this robs people at the back end, transferring the wealth created by the production of the masses to those in control of the system. Your birth certificate is basically a bond treasury; loans are made against the taxes and time you will pay over your lifetime. And don't even get me started on fractional reserve lending.

The reason why the United States threw out the Bretton Woods system was because requiring a gold-to-dollar ratio held them back from the kind of overspending we have today. During World War 1 and 2, we were sending the Europeans supplies and dollars in exchange for gold. By the end of WW2, we were in possession of most of the world's gold supply and started loaning out more dollars than we had in gold which fueled the explosive growth we saw in the mid 20th century. France eventually figured this out, expressing doubt that nearly resulted in a global bank run on America to repatriate their gold. To avert this, Nixon cut a deal with Saudi Arabia that barrels of oil be sold only in dollars and nixed what remained of the gold standard so our artificially inflated economy wouldn't crash.

Do your homework before dismissing people with a greater understanding of economics within historical context. Fiat currency is how you get something for nothing; slavery through debt. World empires have pulled this shit many times before, and our 'modern' implementation is no different and is certainly is no exception to the rule.

There is no such thing as a 'good' fiat system, because it's an intrinsically flawed model created for the purpose of using the population as cattle.

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]MasterFunk -1 points0 points  (0 children)

fact is, if we really got together... there are answers for every problem we have, someone out there is an expert on the matter, and if there's one there are many.

so instead of looking into the future and thinking " how are we going to do this" lets think "lets just jump in with no option of escape, and we will force our best thinkers to do their best thinking"

[–]fap_the_pain_away 128 points129 points  (14 children)

I know TRP is focused on simply how things are, and is thus amoral, but I've got to say... we're clearly the good guys. Anyone who disagrees with this movement, brainwashed or not, is an enemy of truth. The blue pill world is the enemy of men's freedom.

Society is basically one big slave colony, with men being the more productive ones. It's truly sickening. Luckily, one can play his hand smartly and attempt to maximize his freedom.

This place literally saves lives.

It's an ugly, twisted world. Make sure you learn how to enjoy it.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 84 points85 points  (4 children)

Women are slaves, too. In different ways for different reasons. But most of them like it that way. Being a non-slave is hard and risky.

[–]Cryocasm 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Being a non-slave is hard and risky.

It's incredibly hard until you meet people doing the same.

Society characterizes MGTOW, Strong-Minded men, men who quit the system, men who want to have a nice life and realized their struggle as enemies of the state. Nothing is as dangerous as someone who is unplugged. Just the very aura of an unplugged person hurts these mindless masses. They cannot handle what's outside their primitive bubble that's 30, 40, 50 miles in diameter in which they spend their entire lives. All they ever think about is work, their shitty boss, bills, bills, interpersonal relationships, bills, how to be the most popular, and bills. None of them think about what's beyond their home, what's out in the world, where the real fun is. Going to Africa as a "life changing experience" doesn't count because you did it for college credits and social appraisal; you took away nothing like the narcissistic cunt you are.

Exiting the system and doing it properly puts everyone in danger, your government because you see through their shit like glass, your soon-to-be former friends because it hurts their feign world, your parents because it hurts their vision of what you were supposed to be. Men who exit realize that they are not special, saying "everyone is special" is equivalent to saying "nobody is special". To become special you must go beyond what you were taught.

Keep on fighting, I hope we win this one in a few decades and turn culture back proper as we currently don't have one.

[–]shadowq8 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Would love to here your take on women enslavement.

[–]SlappaDaBayssMon 73 points74 points  (4 children)

Be shotgun baby - parents both 27

Live relatively normal life until about 9

Budweiser "iced tea" cans all over the house

Parents have friends over for cocktails all the time.

Vivid memory of mother riding away on back of motorcycle with dads friend

Affair. Busted. Divorce (10 now)

Cue spiral of depression and alcoholism in both parents.

Father is functioning 12-pack type. Mother is RAGING FUCKING PSYCHO

Mother has hep C, multiple blood transfusions - in and out of hospital and jail through teenage years. Lots and lots of tear filled drunken episodes.

Teenage me thinks he matters and can help. Disappointment.

Be 17, Dad, who was only levelheaded person in family, gets sick, dies 4 days later. Ironically, the hospital same room my mother almost died in a few years prior.

Spend next few years drifting between friends and relatives - smoke insane amounts of weed to numb pain

Run into old family (true) friend, RedPill as fuck, sees me down and out, offers me apprenticeship, room, guidance.

Time goes by, learn many skills and self-reliance

Eventually come here last year, and all of a sudden MY ENTIRE LIFE MAKES SENSE.

I really apologize for the greentext - I know the formatting rules - but this kind of stuff isn't easy for me to talk about. Nonetheless I still wanted to share. I'm 27 now, and I could very easily be sitting in a very similar position that my parents were at this age, were it not for the Manosphere.

This place literally saves lives.

[–]1R_E_D_1 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing. Your story is encouraging for those living in like circumstances. Keep strong and keep building yourself bro.

[–]fittitthroway 3 points4 points  (1 child)

What do you do nowadays man?

[–]SlappaDaBayssMon 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Well after the economy turned I got kind of forced out of the trades. I serve tables and bartend right now, working on a general AA because I still haven't found anything I'm passionate about enough to go through all the BS needed for a degree. I'm kind of at a weird plateau, but shit'll work itself out.

[–]Hitlers_Boss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thats awesome for you. And just as great for the redpiller who helped a friend out of the darkness. For all the "live for yourself" mantra, i think its important to realize that some of us came here through others that cared enough to show us the way, others by accident. In any case, if theres ever a desire to help another man, i think it would be to instill values that can lift a man out of the shithole feminazi thinking and into a healthy and independent state of mind.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"This place literally saves lives"

Im one of those guys. This place pulled me out of a rut.

Thank you.

[–]Soriq 26 points27 points  (3 children)

We trade something priceless, that we will never recover – time – in exchange for something governments around the world have made up – money.

Reminds me of Patrice O'Neal's explanation of a Time Ho

It's not just women trying to whore out our time, it's society as well. Good post.

[–]1jb_trp 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Warren Farrell makes a great comparison of Men to Slaves (starts at about 8:00) in his book, "The Myth of Male Power."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Historically, both the male and female role can be compared to slavery. It only becomes unfair nowadays if a woman breaks free from her role while still expecting men to adhere to theirs.

[–]Soriq 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He really goes into great depth about what has happened to men and the similarities to slavery. Very relevant to the OP

[–]WardlyHasted 24 points24 points [recovered]

The notion that time is your most valuable resource should be at the core of every man's beliefs.

Everything you do takes time. You exchange time for money, for food, for shelter. It takes time to read, learn, develop skills and abilities. Everything of value in life and everything that is worth doing take investments of time.

Time is your number one resource.

[–]the99percent1 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Health is your number one resource. Followed by time. If you are not healthy, then time is significantly shortened.

Health is the most valuable resource you have. Preserve and don't squander it.

[–]1oldredder 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Time and leverage. Be it learning, investing or the purely mechanical kind of leverage, when you learn/do one thing which rapidly decreases the time/cost of the next (series of) thing(s) you earn back your time, save it, even if it was still wise to use your time for your benefit without the leverage.

Spread-sheets instead of calculators, rules of thumb in place of voluminous texts, memorizing patterns of weather & local maps instead of relying on maps in hand or GPS, etc. - there's various benefit/cost situations to balance out over time and all of it leads to you saving time thus having more time when you do it right.

[–]loveofnotes 13 points14 points  (3 children)

I realize a huge part of this post is anti-materialism, but you have affirmed that my ambition to experience a motorcycle is real.

[–]self_made_guy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want one too. I'll get one, if it becomes boring I'll sell it. If not, I'll keep that beast.

I say go for it.

[–]trp_angry_dwarf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Meh. I prefer airconditioning. Bikes are cool for about a year.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire2 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm printing this out. Brilliant.

[–]ModAerobus 28 points29 points  (14 children)

This post hurts to read because of how truthful it is. I urge the mods to sticky this.

Archwinger, you have shown us yet again that you are wise.

[–]spacecase89 8 points8 points [recovered]

I just can't get over the attack on money. It was invented for a reason, before governments really existed. You would have to barter if money did not exist, wasting lots of time and not being particularly efficient.

[–]1oldredder 18 points19 points  (11 children)

and what is money today, vs what was money 100, 200 and 500 years ago?

Here's a hint. It wasn't paper, it wasn't IOU notes, it wasn't empty promises that can go to hyperinflation.

It was gold coin, and often silver coins too.

See that we don't use those anymore?

That's the key.

As late as 1933 you could, in America, trade $20 directly for a gold coin & they were legally equal currency. A lot of money in those days. As late as 1964 American quarters had 90% silver and Canadian quarters had 80%.

None today.

[–]WacoKid212 7 points8 points  (4 children)

I feel too many people on TRP don't appreciate the importance of this. The destruction of our money has direct correlations with the downfall of the American male.

[–]1oldredder 10 points11 points  (2 children)

For sure. And it's global. Not the peso, rouble, not the Franc are gold anymore and the European Euro is a horrific Frankenstein replacement of other currencies that were fiat but earlier were matched to gold before.

This is in fact the real red pill - finance, economics, war, agriculture, fraud/crime, sexual strategy & legal changes to all of it over time in every locale - but somehow this subreddit got the crazy idea to take just ONE subtopic and consider that to be the entire red pill. That, to me, is crazy-talk.

You can't exit 2% of the Matrix and be "unplugged"

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

When the 2% occupies most people's actual time, and is the hardest emotionally, it becomes quite clear. Once you are through the first 2% (assuming you mean human relations), once the epiphany and acceptance occurs, the rest of the 98% is smooth sailing.

You don't even need to be red pilled for understanding economic or political reality. Any beta I know can understand this stuff easily. And, more importantly, is willing to accept it for what it is.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not at all. The 2% gives no leverage whatsoever into the other 98% because to do the rest requires a gigantic amount of mathematical knowledge as well as experience directly dealing with fraud & crime.

That's why those who pursue the 2% stuck on gender relations & mating ... have no capacity from that experience to tackle the rest.

Most alpha and beta males have zero idea of the economic reality. Zero.

The first easy test: if you think paper money is real money - you don't get it.

[–]LukesLikeIt 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It has allowed the ruling class to steal from the people through inflation. Inflation IS THEFT. Devaluing every other $ note by printing billions more each month is how they steal from you to continue their debt game. The total worth the bank "holds" remains the same but the amount each note represents decreases. When the note was tied to a fixed resource inflation was blatantly easy to see through.

[–]twistyquasar2 0 points1 point  (2 children)

you can still buy silver and gold though

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But you can't use it as legal currency or be paid in it for work whereas in the past every payment was silver & gold, or direct equivalent. There was no variation: $20 precisely was 1 ounce of gold every time, no market fluctuation. The silver weight in a quarter never varied, not ever, and it was in dimes too.

The fact that it now varies in the markets, how many dollars is an ounce of gold, and that no silver or gold is used for wages or purchases, changes everything. It destroys the entire financial market's stability.

Real money is good and stable. Fake money, IOU notes issued by fiat government decree, are economy-destroyers.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Sure, you can now, but how long until the government forces you to hand it over to them via taxes/jail time/gunpoint?

[–]spacecase89 1 points1 points [recovered]

Yes, now money is more like a stock. Instead of being backed by a company, it is backed by a government. It will fluctuate a little more. Does this stop you from buying stocks? Perhaps you would rather not invest in your country. Then exchange as much as you do not need for another country. It's pretty simple. Unless the entire world tanks, there is nothing to fear. And if the entire world tanks, money will be the least of your problems.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most stocks are propped up using criminal racketeering - this stops me from buying them. I don't play in a rigged casino.

The entire world does tank and on repeating cycles. I can see the math showing it so I know to avoid exposure to it.

When the entire world tanks, money is the only problem. The first winning strategy: to accept that paper isn't money and that energy, food and precious metals are money. No other problem will exist but that, every other problem being only leverage to get those, including guns, land, weaponizing disease, political influence, armed mobility or bunkers.

[–]fap_the_pain_away 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Money used to be a certificate of deposit, backed by real actual gold/silver. Today we use currency backed by absolutely nothing. It's scary to think about.

[–]Shade_Raven 23 points24 points  (10 children)

Having a wife and kids is such a trap. You're spending and sucking your soul so 2+ people can live better or exist at all. Fuck that , the human race is overpopulated and I'm selfish. I care about me.

[–]lightfire409 -1 points0 points  (9 children)

See, this mindset works until you reach a certian age, and you realize that you don't want to be alone for the rest of your life. As you get older (and i mean 50+) the only people that are gonna give a shit about you is your family, and perhaps a few lifelong friends.

My point is, don't write off the personal fulfillment raising a functional family can be.

Disclaimer: mostly citing other older guys on here, as I'm only 25.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (2 children)

the only people that are gonna give a shit about you is your family

You think lots of 50+ guys are being supported by their loving faithful wife and their appreciative kids, living a happy life of fulfillment and marital bliss?

[–]JayViceroy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, exactly, not at all. My dad is in his mid 50s and single living in a house by himself because my mom divorced him when we were kids. I do support him but only because I got wildly lucky when I started a business in my teens.

[–]cariboo_j 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Getting married and reproducing is no guarantee your wife and kids (but especially wife) will be there to support you in old age.

Starting a family because you are afraid to die alone is a terrible idea.

[–]1KissTheBridesmaid 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Agreed, this is just a scare tactic. Another strategy alongside the usual shaming, to get us to commit our resources. If I look around me at men who are 50+ and married, they are mostly miserable. On the other hand, guys who got divorced, even if they lost a shitload of their resources in the process, just seem happy to be out of a shitty situation.

[–]the99percent1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The myth of the lonely old man..

[–]Moolg86 10 points11 points  (1 child)

i'd almost say it needs an anger phase trigger warning. /s

but really, this is sidebar worthy.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot is and lack of adapting eventually will catch up with anyone.

Maybe someone should make a trpsidebar.org site so it's entirely google-searchable, always able to be updated (but vetted; not a wikipedia), and link it with peurarchy.com. That would sure make searching / reading the side-bar easier because not only is it always up to date... having a ton of sublinks easily identified with bookmarks means it's easier to keep track of what's been read already without it being the equivalent of a giant library of unindexed books.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Being a man in society is not being a slave... you're thinking of marriage.

Get a high paying job. Don't get married. Don't have kids. Retire early and live frugally.

[–]1oldredder 6 points7 points  (5 children)

a high-paying high-tax paying job is even more slavery as less of your work-hours translate to your own keeping. Having tax-free investments that grow reliably (hard) is, however, the way to do this (fiat paper) or to store goods that last a long time, are universally needed, or perhaps just needed a lot by your personal future rather than that of everyone (to barter).

What's bought cheap today and lasts for 10 years but rises in price is equal to getting financial gains every year of the future you could have bought the same things at higher prices - but didn't.

[–]fap_the_pain_away 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Can you give examples of physical goods that rise and keep up with inflation?

[–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

food, energy, land for agriculture.

Precious metals is a "yes" but with a qualifier: it actually has a giant 30-40 year cycle inverse to real-estate and some reasons for that is both are affected by loans/margin/credit and one is very easily carried while the other is not but is very attractive in stable times.

I'd also suggest: ammunition, guns, axes, hammers, nails, "lumber" (warning: if not properly treated it won't last so you can't just store it forever), alcohol, morphine (this shit will last forever), tobacco (can spoil but can be kept a while in good conditions)

[–]1reph 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I'll take a shot at this:

  • Income-producing land & real estate
  • Certain collectibles (art, vintage automobiles, etc)
  • Precious metals

[–]delightful_dissident 0 points1 point  (1 child)

A few more examples of collectibles:

  • Firearms and ammunition

  • Autographed sports memorabilia

  • Dinosaur bones

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 11 points12 points  (1 child)

That was a rant worthy of anything from Esther Vilar's pen. I am telling you, Arch, there is a book inside you. Oh it may not be a best seller but it may also be one of those read by men who need it for a thousand years.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

There are a lot of books inside of me. I'm just too busy trading my irreplaceable time for income.

[–]cariboo_j 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think it's important to live as a bachelor for a few years.

If you are unfortunate / foolish enough to (1) get married and (2) marry a materialistic woman, you will at least know from experience you can live without all the bed bath and beyond shit and big screen TVs.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My grandpa told my grandma he's not getting her shit on Valentines day because everyday with her is Valentines day. She accepted that with a smile and that was that.

[–]fortifiedoranges 24 points25 points  (9 children)

If you even casually browse TRP and decide to get married, you are dumb as fuck.

[–]JayViceroy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This made me lol. As blunt as it is, it's also completely true. I just saw a picture of Dan Bilzerian and this billionaire I met in Miami last year named Bill Dean on a boat with 20 girls but reminded me of when I met him in person. I met him at the club on his property next to his mansion. He had just walked downstairs from his bedroom and had two 20 something year old model type chicks in bikinis on each arm and was high on some shit. Bill Dean is like 50. Don't get fucking married.

[–]kevkos 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Yeah but the guy that wrote The Rational Male is married for 18 years or something. Not sure how he justifies that, marriage aint red pill.

[–]JayViceroy 4 points5 points  (2 children)

He also argues that the dating scene and women in general have changed so much that if he was 20 something and single today he would not get married.

[–]kevkos -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Ok so he's saying marriage is okay because he is 40 something but not good for 20 somethings? I don't get it. Marriage IS the myth of happily ever after. It puts you in a contract with your wife & the government. Not much good can come out of that, and it makes the relationship somewhat involuntary.

[–]AUAUA 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think that women have changed a fair amount the last twenty years, and not for the better.

[–]RPDBF 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Did he get married prior to being the "Rollo" though? (I forget) if you're already married and then discover/become red pill I guess you have to work with what you got and try to have a RP marriage because divorce is too expensive.

[–]Hatorader -1 points0 points  (0 children)

He's married but I'm not sure he condones it. 18 yrs of marriage could have turned him into "Rollo". I love his site.

[–]fortifiedoranges -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I thought that site was ghost writers or is that Chateau Hartiste? Maybe it's just an example of "do as I say, not as I do." Either way, the site has great information, married or not.

[–]WeAreGlidingNow 6 points6 points [recovered]

TV sitcoms tell us it’s funny.

I used to watch Everybody Loves Raymond periodically, years ago, back when it was still in production. I was (happily?) married then. The comedy was mediocre, sometimes funny, but usually lame.

One decade and a divorce-rape later, I happened to catch a late-night rerun episode recently. Holy fuck. I could hear my blood boil. That cold nag cunt Debra (Ray's wife). Too bad she's fictional because we can't go out and kill her. Her character pisses me off now. Constantly putting down Ray and everyone laughs. Everyone laughs at Ray. Ray just sulks.

I felt like yelling at the screen: "Leave, now, Ray! You could be banging a grateful hottie!"

Or just put a gun in your mouth.

There's a lot of (unintentional?) truth in that show.

[–]yougotshitonyourass 1 points1 points [recovered]

Same with "Married... with children", used to make me laugh all day, now I find it deppressing as fuck

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I read this in George Carlin's voice. Bravo.

[–]giffengoods 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What's your call to action? I genuinely didn't get it. If working our asses off to make good money and have nice things are pointless, what are you suggesting we do? (Serious inquiry)

[–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Given (giffen?) your name I'd think the answer is obvious - improve yourself in tangible, permanent ways, stock up on real tangibles where it makes sense for your life, ensure you have real value, real skills, good health and fitness - and don't buy into the fiat consumerist feminist / Marxist regime pushed on us.

Unplug from the bullshit. Participate, as you desire, in what's left of society that isn't 100% bullshit to you. You gotta make your own evaluation depending on your locale & needs which aren't the same as every other man down to every detail.

[–]exceptionalEBOLA 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sacrificing yourself for the sake of your offspring is a mans biological purpose. Lots of quality points in this post, but taking care of children is one of the most primal satisfactions.

[–]ChadThundercockII 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Neo: What truth?

Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.

[–]gprime312 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Daily reminder that gay guys have it best.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hang out with your best mate and get blow jobs? Count me in

[–]DonArturo 8 points9 points  (9 children)

Good screed. This reminded me of the Slave Test:

Are you a slave? Recently I wrote about how governments manufacture and evoke powerful symbols to essentially brainwash us and keep us obedient. I used an analogy of similar tactics in the past to efficiently maintain the obedience of household slaves. [...]

The slave test is incredibly simple. Just act like a free person. Go about your own business doing as you please violating no one, and politely decline to obey any orders. For instance, if someone claims you must produce for them on a regular basis, decline their demands. If you get a regular bill in the mail for anything you didn’t explicitly request, send it back with a polite statement that you choose not to pay. If, while driving safely without causing any accidents or harm, you get a blue light signal requesting that you pull over, give a polite wave and continue about your business. If after not paying one of those regular bills, you receive a printed order to show up at a certain location at a certain time, politely decline. If a man orders you to get in the back of his locked car, assert your freedom and politely decline. If you are able to peacefully go about your personal activities and politely decline to obey all orders, and if you are not subjected to violence for disobeying, then you have passed the slave test! Congratulations! You're a free person.

[–]LastActionHero86 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Came for the /r/meditation coincidence, stayed because I’m divorced at 28 and just discovered this sub. Thanks for this post, really well written.

[–]someguysomewhere321 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Slavery has,been around since the dawn of mankind and today's min wage working conditions are little better than those of a peasant farmer working a landowners land.

Spending 9 hours at work (1h unpaid break) + at least 1h commute for most is not normal in settings closer to nature. A hunter / gatherer doesn't spend that kind of time working and a self sustainable farmer doesn't either.

If you aren't on the lowest end of the slave chain (no health insurance and spending virtually all your time working min wage jobs) you're still earning scarily small amounts, if you calculate your hourly income based on money you actually have left at the end of the month after your standard non luxurious living expenses.

This is of course still much better than in developing countries, but none the less you're a slave to the x percent that run the show.

Even a high paid manager is still a high level slave.

Being my own man has been much of my journey to me, going from min wage slave, to self employed slave (if the is no big upside you're just replacing one job with another), to business founder (without loans, not getting pimped by banks) to passive income investor.

I'm not wealthy and live a moderate lifestyle, but I'm free at last, while the current generation largely won't be able to retire in western Europe.

[–]zarus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

According to Duc Saint-Simoun, one of the primary causes of the French Revolution was the culture of irrational extravagance that was encouraged by King Louis XIV of France, which led to widespread debt and social disorder.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]fhghg 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Meditate, educate, procreate.

[–]Rougepellet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Even before redpill, i never really understood valentines day and didn't care much about it. Now i realize how retarded the whole thing is. "But its supposed to be a day to show how deep your love is" shut the fuck up. What asscrack decided the specific day i am to drop hundreds of dollars for something "special" on a specific day every year?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow. simply wow. You've successfully described millions of men's lives and I'm included.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Give society or women 10 minutes and they will take 10 years.

It's not only possible to waste your life, it's made easier every day.

Get out. Go. Do something. Get action before it's too late. It may already be too late.

[–]SelfEvolved3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What is the fucking solution? With career etc. What is the alternative to going to uni to getting a job? start working retail? I want to hear some advice ahah i'm 20 years old and I feel pretty lost.

[–]bojackhorsemen 4 points5 points  (11 children)

As someone that girls fuck for free, I've never understood why I should date or get married. Seems like a bad idea to me. Lol

[–]surfjihad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well bojack you are kind of a big time washup actor

[–]1oldredder 4 points5 points  (8 children)

Your time is free? Or the girls line up so fast you literally just open the door and they're already stripping and trying to suck your dick?

[–]bojackhorsemen -1 points0 points  (7 children)

Most of these girls I game while already in route to something else, it isn't really a tax of my time. It honestly doesn't take a lot after I've already got them committed to hanging out at my house. Even if it were taxing on time consumption(which again it isn't) I'm definitely not spending anything financially.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Ok, how do you keep them out of your house often enough you have it to yourself without them? There's always logistics: they arrive, they leave, they plan to arrive, they plan to leave, you plan to use your place with them, you plan to use your house without them.

Something doesn't add up here unless they are always there, always on the way or you really have no use for your own time but to put your dick in one of them and don't do anything else.

Which can be a fun life but... very single-minded.

[–]bojackhorsemen -1 points0 points  (5 children)

Why would a girl have to always be at my house for me to fuck her? Its not like all I do is fuck. What the hell do you mean how do I keep them out of my house? I fuck them, they leave shortly there after. I really don't see your point here. I've been in college since I was 16, I'm 20 now. I'll be attending graduate school in a year.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Logistics. It takes time to get them over and back out so if it's zero time, zero effort, they must always be around. There's no way they infreqently show up but always are able to arrive almost instantly at your beck & call.

That's just not how the world works - they have other places to be and it's unlikely you'll know, before checking, precisely they are close enough to just happen by in almost no time.

[–]bojackhorsemen 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I think you totally underestimate how much time goes into arranging a date and time. Its not like I can call a girl up anytime; however, it is not hard for me to arrange for a girl to come to my house at a date which accommodates our time schedules. I don't take these women out, I don't spend money on them, and the time it takes to arrange a meeting is negligible.

[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I guess I don't get it.

I've never had time schedules that line up so easily unless one of us isn't working. Even my last 'girlfriend' (not so much, really, but she was nice, just not attractive to me in the end) was busy with school while I was busy with work. We barely had time to see each other 2 hours in a week.

[–]bojackhorsemen -1 points0 points  (1 child)

You ever been to college man? Its way easier if you live in a college town.

[–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

true: I'm in a college town. There's pretty much unlimited college pussy with no need for me to actually go to college (although I did).

If you don't live in a college town and want college pussy that bad... move to a college town.

[–]kevkos 5 points6 points  (6 children)

We're all slaves. Taxes are extortion at the point of a gun. Slavery.

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[–]kevkos 6 points7 points  (4 children)

"It's not perfect" is a copout. Your money gets extracted to pay for drones to bomb the middle east, not just waste.

Success comes despite the government, not because of it. They are not here to protect anyone, they are here to take their cut. If their so-called "services" were so essential, why must they force everyone to pay for them?

Newsflash they ARE stealing your money via taxation and inflation.

When was the last time some cop stopped a robbery from happening? That almost never happens, it's up to you to protect your wealth, the government won't help.

You are a slave all the way, you can't leave, there is no choice, and you must pay or go to jail. Not freedom. Slavery.

[–]mirepoix -1 points-1 points [recovered]

I think government services are like IT; when they're doing things right, no one can tell they've done anything at all. It may not seem like things are ordered in such a way that it helps you out, but it is.

You think the government has never prevented you from being robbed? You think if the government evaporated tomorrow that everyone would "live and let live" if you were in possession of desirable resources? Your wife would be up against a wall and your house would no longer be yours as soon as a roving gang of guys with guns came through.

Go move to Western Kurdistan or Somalia to see how well people behave without a government keeping them in check.

[–]kevkos 1 point2 points  (2 children)

We do have roving gangs with guns. They're called cops. They don't prevent crimes.

The military inflames groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda by drone bombing innocent people. It doesn't prevent them.

Somalia has been at war for several decades, horrible analogy. They have actually done BETTER when they have no government vs when the UN installs a puppet gov.

Fear is why the government exists. People THINK they are protected, but this is not the case.

Your fears of people around you prevent you from embracing freedom for everyone. Despite all the evidence showing how government steals your dreams and robs you blind, you can't bear the idea to live without them because you fear others.

[–]mirepoix 1 points1 points [recovered]

You say Somalia is a horrible example because they have "been at war for decades."

This comment says more than you meant it to. It says that "in order for this anarchy thing to work, we need an idealized model of a society that has no problems."

Unfortunately, no societies are a perfect candidate. WE are at war and have been for over a decade. There is no ideal country or ideal circumstance. The world is fucked. It is a dream to think it would work somehow magically with the way things are any better than it would in Somalia.

[–]kevkos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not at all.

Government are made up of simply people.

Your model says that people cannot self-govern.

But then you say we need a government, made up of these same people that can't govern, to govern everyone.

Makes zero sense.

Somalia is a country that has always been based on tribalism.

The US has never been based on tribalism.

Apples/oranges.

The dream is thinking we can have a power-over structure that works, that somehow, with the so-called "right" people in charge we can have utopia.

The reality is that if most people are bad, then we will have an even worse time as we elect them to rule over us.

If most people are good, then we wouldn't need a government, but that hasn't been your stance.

Fear is what is keeping you from wanting freedom. Change is difficult for most, but eventually, people's desire for autonomy will win out, and the shackles of government slavery will be shaken off, just like slavery was in the 1800s.

[–]swishandswallow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My two cents: The first part is completely true, we do exchange our time/sweat/blood for stuff that only that has perceived value (except necessities). We pay into a system that takes more than it gives, BUT that system has gotten humanity this far and WAS crucial to our existence up until now. Now the system is taking more from us than what we are getting. We are giving time/labor and getting back debt, sickness, stress. With the technology available today we can live off the grid, grow our own food and literally enjoy the fruit of our labor. The second part I disagree with, I think The Red Pill isn't about fanaticism or bitterness. TRP is about reality and level headedness. We KNOW that love and loyalty is a myth, we know that interaction between men and women is an exchange, nothing more. Men that know how the system works can use it to their advantage. You should be on top of your game for yourself, women will gravitate toward that. Red pill men know that there is no love, when a woman says she "loves you", what she's really saying is, " you currently satisfy my needs". When you know the system you can toss a woman to the side because you're not bound by the shackles of "love" or society's "norm" and go for the blond in the coffee shop with the big knockers because she will now satisfy your needs.

[–]PRjuan 4 points5 points  (4 children)

one way out of this madness or at least something that would help a lot would be to legalize prostitution.

And that is why it wont be legalized....

[–]DonArturo 17 points18 points  (3 children)

It already is perfectly legal in my part of the world. (A gentle reminder that not everyone on TRP is located in a certain arbitrary region of North America.)

[–]hibloodstevia 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I guess the question that is more to /u/PRjuan 's point is whether or not having legal prostitution in these other countries makes a difference or not.

Well, anyone have a comment on that?

[–]Blu37empest 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I honestly feel it doesn't make a difference at all, women are almost oblivious to the fact that every industrial area is littered with legal brothels (Sydney, Australia). Of the few times I have been to them, usually 2-3am the carparks are all full with 10+ girls working at a time. The common misconception here is that "normal guys" would never go to a brothel, but almost everyone I know has used one before at least once if not regularly. For contrast im on an average wage of about $300 a day and the brothels in my area charge $100 per 40 mins so its not all that expensive IMO.

[–]1oldredder -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Makes a huge difference. Just for fun I was perusing both the escort pages and the casual pickup pages in my area and noticed one of the older hookers put her name up in the free-hookups pages. Wow. So this woman who wants money for sex (is old, has no reason to expect much results) is now desperate enough to put her name/post up where it's casual free hookups, personal ads.

Either she's going to surprise a man by insisting it's for money when that's where people hook up NOT for money... or she really wants sex and isn't getting any (at her age: not surprising).

Having legal prostitution and no culture taboo against random hookups means the price of pussy is driven way, way down, to the point there's no reason to go on expensive dates or to marry just to get sex, even consistent sex with the same partner. At least one of those personal ads I saw is a woman (older, of course) looking for fun but if possible an exclusive situation (maybe exclusive sex, maybe more, isn't clear).

Pretty much if that's (she is) your thing then no marriage is required and exclusivity has the bonus you're less likely to worry about diseases while getting that regular sex.

I'm not down on plate-spinning, especially the girls who are hot & 10 - 15 years younger - but there's no question the risk of STDs rises with notch count so use your judgment carefully.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This. I wish I had more to say, but I am overwhelmed by reading this.

[–]thatguylikeaaronhall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Love is more important than money I'm 17 and have never held this ideal. I'm glad you recognize the bullshit in this statement.

[–]watersign -1 points0 points  (1 child)

one of the reasons why we're seeing an economic slow down......more and more people are waking up to the scam that the American dream is...

[–]MyRedPillLife 11 points12 points  (0 children)

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

[–]DoctorConiMac 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This reminds me of Mark Passio's What On Earth is Happening podcast. The last 3-4 episodes have mentioned the gender dynamics at work in the world from a universal perspective.

Does anyone else listen to the podcast?

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[–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends. Sometimes a guy could see 2 women, see 1 will put up resistance, see the next will just give in for sex now, and just go for that girl. That's game/strategy too but it's not what he did with the 1st girl - he just next'ed her.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think from the comments the question I should ask is how much stock do any of us put in our time? As you know time is finite and thus our finances are finite so how much do we value our time and how much are we willing to invest in our time lost?

[–]TRPKid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was a good read and really helped put the big picture in perspective. Thanks for sharing.

[–]bluedrygrass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent read, worth every second of it. A perfect summary of what it's like to be a man in our society (and even in the recent past ones.)

Particularly significative the self medicating drugs, videogames andother harmful stuff part.

[–]Entershikari 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't buy stuff with money but with your time

[–]Imrockbottom 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Great post, but I gotta ask. How do you escape the financial "matrix" so to speak? Sure, practicing frugality/minimalism and staying single and childless helps, but how do you make money without wasting time in higher education or working like a slave?

[–]Shade_Raven 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why would anyone give you anything if you give nothing of value. That's not how it works.

[–]Waldo00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How else do you control the population in a civilization. Money is made up for the losers who otherwise wouldn't contribute anything for society.

[–]Hennez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a great read OP. Exactly what I've been thinking even before swallowing the pill.

The question that arises from this point of view is the following: how to break free?. Is the thing that I've been thinking the most about lately. One thing would be to mentally break free (is the first step required) and the other, a bit more difficult to acomplish, to break physically free (that is materialistically).

In order to achieve the latter you will require to take the most from the society that we're trying to break free from and then make the best out of yourself in order to triumph IN it. It's a bit fucked up but doable. As there is not a single road to achieve this, the way to achieve it is often clouded in mistery and a life-changing trip for any man attempting it.

What would the TRP community's thoughts on this matter be?

[–]Dillett7799 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Add Tim Farris's "Four Hour Work Week" to your reading list for a more in depth talk on this same subject. For you red pillers who still refuse to read (I know you lazy cunts are out there) it's available as an audiobook.

[–]Totsean 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every time I think about marriage this place kicks my ass. Thank you for reminding me what's more important.

[–]Lord_Varys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A house can be a good investment. Better than renting where you just throenthr moneu away and have nothing to show for it.

And sports leagues for junior are good for him. Teaches him to compete and be a team player. If you wanna have a kid might as well make him the best he can be.

[–]1aguy01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Manipulated Man is required reading for anyone here at TRP. Good post.

[–]bitchgetter69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Posts like this get 700+ upvotes and "Fight club" is still not in the "must read" list...

[–]EscortSportage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everytime i poke my head into r/theredpill its always so dark, but honestly this is the most honest, truth that you probably wont find anywhere else. I literally just had a huge talk with a girl that iam seeing over valentines days and how i could care less about these stupid economic stimulating holidays, its total garbage. Im not that serious with this girl ive told her i wasnt looking for anything serious and she still expected me to atleast call or something for valentines day. I would think that doing something on these holidays would deff. lead her on which is exactly what i dont want to do. FUck i get pissed about some of the shit i did for my Ex thinking about it. These women expect everything from you and then god forbid you want to sick sex stuff or what ever else its a big deal. Every women i work with asked me what iam i doing for Valentines day, Working on my car, and going out with the guys thats what im doing and did i enjoy myself! Society is sick fuck bowing down to women. Dont get me wrong i enjoy pleasuring them and having a good time, but what is expected in todays society is madness.

[–]beginner_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have considered moving together with my GF to save money and then I saw her searching for apartments/houses way bigger than I was and what we need. She also increased the max. rent so that we wouldn't actually save much compared to 2 smaller apartment now..It's off the table for now.

[–]ChairBorneMGTOW 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is an excellent introduction to the concepts put forward by Aaron Clarey - "Enjoy the Decline." It's a survival manual for the alternative to the slaverey described above.

Canada: http://www.amazon.ca/Enjoy-Decline-Accepting-Living-United/dp/1480284769

US: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1480284769/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8

[–]foomfoomfoom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good insight. I also like the paragraphs that paint the picture of delusional blue pill orientation. Also good because of its scope: shows how bp the culture is instead of just focusing on this or that bp decision. You show that bp is the default for negotiating and navigating life stages.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's too bad that the blue-pill "slaves" have neither the time not the inclination to read this. In between time spent working their jobs, and evenings spent watching movies with their girlfriends, they are in an ignorant bliss.

Personally, I have spent the better part of 29 years being a "beta" but perhaps it was a blessing in disguise. Who knows what might have happened if I found the "one."

[–]Derkdigg 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What is wrong with sports, if you play?

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[–]Derkdigg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for answering instead of downvoting. Everything you will ever buy is some old white guy's way of making money off you.

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[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Make more money than your wife can spend.

[–]Lord_Varys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or don't let her be a spoiled princess?

[–]fhghg 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Go to Phnom Penh. Walk out of the city holding only your penis in your hand. Many will suck it. Find the one who sucks it three times without pay. She is your wife, for that is true love, when there is no need to pay.

[–]2ManyJays 6 points6 points [recovered]

If I wanted love I'd get a dog

[–]iSnORtcHuNkz69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I wanted love I'd get a dog

That's a blue pill way of looking at life.

[–]Heizenbrg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I had to stop at the baby showers.
I witnessed someone I know be completely detached from his life after marrying an american woman and all that extra baggage that comes with it.
Do yourself a favor, either take that shit out of her head the moment you get serious, or find yourself a non-american wife.

[–]GurneyHalleck85 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A great post.

One possible counterpoint is that since we humans strive for status, and modern society determines status in part by how much income you earn, a whole lot of people are willing to sacrifice their time and energy in order to avoid the fate of having low status, or in order to get one up on someone who has more status than them whom they feel they must become equal to. Basically, you're always screwed: If you're not slaving away and climbing the career ladder, society makes you feel like shit because of your low status. At the same time, slaving away at a career sucks and takes away your precious time and energy.

At the end of the day I suspect that this always come down to the simple fact that your genes only care about propagating themselves and do not care about your happiness and contentment.

[–]WeCantHaveFun -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yeah, so don't fucking spend on them.

That's what you do with whores. Much more efficient.

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[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Yeah. You caught me. I can't get enough of this reddit karma. It'so validating.

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[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So I need advice from a real man. I'm at this hotel workout room, there's no squat rack, so I've been squatting a heavy barbell. I did something funny getting it up over my head, and now my upper back hurts, just under my left shoulder blade. I need some good man stretches to help with that.

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[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is the only corner of reddit worth reading. You get to shit on women, talk weights and nutrition, swap sex and money stories, and have a great time. Everywhere else, dufuses post memes and bad jokes or get all bent out of shape over real big issues that are only important to the guy complaining.

The Red Pill is so amazing that it's infamous. Half of reddit wastes its time badmouthing it because they don't have enough interesting shit of their own to ddiscuss.

[–]the99percent1 -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Fuck you /u/archwinger.. I actually enjoy my work and the vast power and luxury it has granted me.

It takes money to make money. And money is power. I enjoy being a powerful person. Nothing gives me a better high than to fuck with another man's livelihood, especially if he has a family to support.

Call me evil, but there are men like me who play the game and are apex predators. TRP has granted me vast knowledge on how not to be outplayed by women and how to quickly move up the food chain in a way that benefits me.

I'm still in my 20s. Give me another 20 years of this line of thinking and progression, the sky is my limits.

Yes, time is of essence. Spend it wisely. I spend vast amounts of my time observing human nature, becoming self actualized and not getting fucked over by someone else. That is time well spent.

Yes, in general, stay away from materialistic goods. Time to time though, dabble in it. I bought my luxury car to remind myself of what I've accomplished and where I'm heading. Every morning, I step outside and see my car. The troubles I face disappears and replaced by a calm feeling of serenity. That is a feeling worth every dollar I spent.

[–]BetaRecovery 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Nothing gives me a better high than to fuck with another man's livelihood, especially if he has a family to support.

No. Fuck you. Men aren't sticking together - is why women are dominating. You need to revisit your priorities, my friend. Having nice shit is one thing but fucking with another man's manhood is something completely different.

[–]the99percent1 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I didn't get to where I am without stepping over peoples heads and being kind hearted... It's purely business.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

How should I live my life and be respected?

[–]an0n4btc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How should I live my life and be respected?

However you choose to live it.

All I ask is that you choose wisely (know the risks with every choice plus read the sidebar if you haven't already); and do so for yourself (where possible if you have children and other obligations of that nature) without care nor regard of the fleeting opinions that is respect from others.

[–]amotg -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Really awesome post.

Say you make 20 bucks an hour. If you are spending 20 bucks on a woman on drinks or gas or whatever, she had better offer an hour's worth of benefit via sex or whatever. If not, it might be time to reevaluate the relationship.

[–]funquip -1 points0 points  (0 children)

50% of marriages aren't great just because they didn't end in divorce. 95% of marriages are failures.

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[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That is some grade A Fight Club level stuff you've written here, mate.

(and I mean that as a compliment.)

[–]improvy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Incredible post, my friend. I read many of your previous posts, but this one is your masterpiece. You are gifted at writing.

[–]chadchadington -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

This...x's 1,000.

Fuck, yeah man.

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