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MetaButch-dyke feminist takes high T, and it shatters her worldview (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Endorsed ContributorRed_August

A candid, and entertaining audio interview (This American Life) with Griffin Hansbury, who started life as a woman, but began taking massive testosterone injections seven years ago, and now lives as a "man". It’s just 17 minutes long, and quite amusing. You won’t find any real science here but it remains an interesting glimpse on how by just jacking up the T, her brain lit up, and her view of the world was turned upside down in a matter of days.

The most striking change was this incredible boost in her sexual desire. Where as before she would fantasise and embark on constructing a long inner verbal narrative around the women she would find attractive, she now simply objectifies, and lusts after their beauty. Everything she now touches turns to sex. She describes how she can now see that even cars can be sexy - their artful forms. She described herself as previously being very much a butch feminist but has now even been called a misogynist because of her newly found desires, and behaviours. She now identifies as a “post-feminist”, and describes her inner battle between what she was told to think as a feminist, and her now newly found powerful lust.

She claims that she even found a new interest in science - that she finally understands it for the first time. Slightly tongue-in-cheek but, again, a real shift in the way she perceives, and interacts with the physical world. The BP interviewer thought she was setting them back 100 years for saying that - but it is what it is.

She now finds she cannot have a good cry anymore, that she can’t befriend women with the same closeness as her prior self. She even found that being a man is difficult for it means being in a constant battle or contest. She was now also continuously physically challenged by other men - she discovered to watch her words - she discovered competition.

Despite some vestigial female wiring, testosterone alone changed this hamster’s views on nature vs. nurture for good.

This American Life: Testosterone - scroll right down the page to find “ACT 2”, and play it from there.


[–][deleted] 56 points57 points  (2 children)

You might find Norah Vincent's story in "Self-Made Man" interesting as well.

[–]Coolfuckingname 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Fascinating read and amazingly cool woman. This episode of TAL and norah vincent permanently changed my mind about gender, hormones, and life.

Heres a video piece from the news on her.

What she says about men and how genuinely good they are is really astonishing and heartening. You all should really give it a view! (And read the book)

[–][deleted]  (16 children)

[deleted]

[–]through_a_ways 26 points27 points  (7 children)

I also covered these topics on my YT as to why equality is a dead concept once you understand how we are hardwired as far as DHT/test/estrogen/progesterone

Keep in mind that estrogen has its uses, even in men. But it's true that estrogen is more harmful, simply because the society we live in promotes stress (and thus estrogen), and even contains many xenoestrogens.

Even if we lived in a traditional society, there are millions of compounds in nature that have estrogenic effects, simply because there are a lot of phenols in nature. Testosterone doesn't have a phenolic ring.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Yes we all need to have estrogen in our bodies, but taking estrogen shots....GG sweet everything

[–]through_a_ways 10 points11 points  (3 children)

That goes for both men and women.

Estrogen is carcinogenic in large amounts. Birth control that uses estrogen is responsible for a large number of early deaths in women who use it, and if that estrogen isn't being properly detoxified from our water supply, then it's doing the same in men and other women.

[–]alpha_n3rd 3 points4 points  (2 children)

glad my water comes from a mountain reservoir

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

If you think that has any bearing on the situation you have a very myopic viewpoint.

[–]alpha_n3rd 15 points16 points  (0 children)

The world is fucked dude what are you doing about it?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Estrogen refers to a series of different hormones ranging from the beneficial, to the simply harmful.

It helps nothing that many things present in modern society only further kill TD production and estrogen and estrogen-like-things are present everywhere, and a lot of them hide in that one degree of separation.

BPA won't turn you into a woman but that along with an aggregation of other factors have created medical cases where the male body is heavily feminized. Never mind how fucked our diet is.

[–]WishfulTraveler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You would probably love some of the discussion in /r/steroids

[–]Oakland_dude 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Bradley Manning comes to mind.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

    The same thing can be same with testosterone. 'the amount of medical conditions where higher testosterone levels predispose someone towards that condition is gigantic' Can do some googlefu for a big list.

    [–]bookhockey24 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Please Google fu. High endogenous testosterone has very few concomitant risk factors. Myths abound about pre-disposal to prostate cancer, but these are unfounded and borne of ignorance.

    [–]1iluminatiNYC 154 points155 points  (117 children)

    I've always told people that if the drug warriors were really serious about banning mind-altering drugs, they'd ban testosterone and estrogen first. I don't think people really get how deep it goes. I've managed to interact with a few transmen of late, and I get similar remarks to what this interview said.

    Just remember that 1) taking estrogen as a (cis)male would have similar mind-blowing results and 2) women aren't worst or better than men...just different.

    [–]TRP VanguardCyralea 42 points43 points  (27 children)

    I guarantee you the majority of male feminists and those posting in TBP are low-testosterone men. It absolutely, 100% influences your daily thought.

    Here's a fun article. Feminist women are highly characterized by their 2D:4D ratio, an indicator of pre-natal testosterone exposure.

    [–]Meglomaniac 12 points13 points  (25 children)

    I guarentee you that a large portion of the men posting in TRP are low testosterone as well, at least when they first come in here. I know I was.

    Almost all of the men are here because they could not escalate because of a lack of testosterone giving them passion/lust/desire. IMHO.

    [–]zephyrprime 13 points14 points  (6 children)

    "at least when they first came in here". What? You think just learning redpill somehow raises your testosterone? It doesn't. Working out raises test levels but only for 15-60 minutes.

    [–]bookhockey24 14 points15 points  (3 children)

    Not saying that reading anything will raise testosterone, but you don't understand what you're saying.

    The mind-body connection is fiercely interdependent. And heavy lifting over time does in fact elevate testosterone and related hormones 'permanently' in an androgen cascade.

    Know what a victory pose is? It's the natural behavior of primates when feeling elation and joy after completing a difficult task. You see it frequently in sports and other physical activities. Chimps, bonobos, and humans all do it, and it's not learned behavior. Congenitally blind athletes perform this pose just as much as the rest of us. Interestingly, roughly 2 minutes of the victory pose can raise free testosterone by 8 pg/mL and lower cortisol by 0.04 pg/mL (significant indeed)! These effects last for several hours.

    Physical states, mental states, posing, physical activity, awareness, self-esteem, social exchanges, stress, etc all can and do have profound impacts on hormone levels, which in turn can and do have profound impacts on our behavior and states. Complex interdependence with lasting outcomes.

    [–]rpscrote 4 points5 points  (2 children)

    Interestingly, roughly 2 minutes of the victory pose can raise free testosterone by 8 pg/mL and lower cortisol by 0.04 pg/mL (significant indeed)! These effects last for several hour

    New morning routine, hop out of bed, congratulate self on not dying in sleep. Nice job me!!! Receive T

    [–]bookhockey24 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    No kidding. There was a study that tested the victory pose hypothesis. Half of the subjects performed the V for 2 minutes before a job interview, the other half did not. Almost invariably, the half that did were liked more, came off as more confident and outgoing, and were more likely overall to get an offer. I'll see if I can find the study.

    [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I'll probably literally finish off my meditation by doing the V and mentally playing "Eye of the Tiger." Crazy how strong the mind body connection can be...

    [–]Meglomaniac 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Studies have shown that consistent weight training does increase your overall testosterone significantly.

    Also, most of us live in a civilized country where we can see a doctor about low testosterone.

    [–]Shade_Raven 4 points5 points  (16 children)

    You can't raise your T levels? At least not enough to matter. But high dopamine stimulus ( porn , video games , etc. ) can numb receptors that testosterone uses thus diminishing its effect.

    [–]2johnnight 15 points16 points  (6 children)

    He is right.

    I'd say that 90 percent of the problems guys have here come not from a lack of valid pickup lines, but from the lack a too weak biological urge that otherwise would override all of the doubts [and self-control] and would make us sexoholic approach freaks. Pickup belongs to the horny overconfident.

    Also, testosterone gives men those sexy masculine neanderthal facial features, that chicks dig. What they are attracted to is animalism. Elongated wolf muzzles.

    We are fooling ourselves that as humans we have much choice. No, we don't. When the biological urge is strong enough, nobody can control it. I have trouble controling hunger and the urge to smoke, when the temptation is right next to me, even though I have promised myself that I won't do it. It's fascinating to observe how much I am not in control over my own behavior.

    TRP deals with the reverse problem: male sexuality that is under too much conscious control.

    [–]2Overkillengine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    TRP deals with the reverse problem: male sexuality that is under too much conscious control.

    Or worse, male sexuality that is not under conscious control but rather subverted in a way that is not constructive to the individual male nor society over time- AKA "thirsty Beta doormat" syndrome.

    [–]JustACrosshair_ 7 points8 points  (4 children)

    I think you are incredibly right. I have been studying on myself how much my biological/hormonal -> psychological states influence my decision making. I have bipolar disorder and about 6 months ago I became somewhat obsessed with figuring out how to manipulate and control it better. With that I have become acutely aware the role of hormones and things take in shaping your decision making. For instance as you don't eat your blood sugar drops and your body also starts releasing hormones telling you that you are hungry and then as you continue not eating you become distracted/ irritated from the nausea and hunger pains and become overall shitty until you eventually make the decision to eat.

    The thing is what part of you makes the decision to eat? The chemicals that are floating around in your body provide sensations and signals and that interfaces with your conscious thought. Your higher consciousness makes the decision but your hormonal functions do the lobbying. Its a constant interaction between these things. The problem is that a imbalance between the chemicals can fuck your higher consciousness and cause it to stop really operating. But when it stops operating you can do some good stuff, usually its bad but in some cases you can really drop the higher consciousness and get really primal and excellent in certain masculine traits. I could make a huge write up on what I have found with all this shit. If you get a tighter grasp on how your higher consciousness interacts with your chemical nature you can manipulate it in order to achieve certain things

    [–]2johnnight 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    Well, this goes back to the question: Who am I? Am I the urges? Or am I the higher consciousness that observes them?

    Many people identify with their urges. What they want is what they want and it's all equal to them. The Ego is not perceived as separate. If I want the chocolate then I want the chocolate. That's definitely how children perceive it.

    Other people are able to perceive these wants as vices, that are separate from us. Call it the Devil that whispers into your ear, or the Ego. Just seeing it as separate is a step forward. How is it that I don't want to eat the chocolate, because I understand that it will make me fat, but I still want the chocolate? So there must be something separate.

    I think we have arrived at the scientific understanding that the frontal cortex is the rational part and the limbic system is the emotional part, so we need to talk about humans having two brains. The limbic system tells us what motivates us. When it's in control, the frontal cortex gets used just as a tool to plan a rational path to getting what the paleomammal wants. Isn't this kind of scary? The animal having a smart human as a tool to get what the animal wants.

    The opposite is when the neo-brain is stronger and in control and that is when rational executive decisions are being made and urges are just ignored and denied, just because the paleomammal is weak. Do I plan to lose weight? Fine, I'm rationally making the decision to eat less food for some weeks.

    [–]1beerthroway 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Well, this goes back to the question: Who am I? Am I the urges? Or am I the higher consciousness that observes them?

    I think this is what Chuck Palahniuk was describing in Fight Club with his constant use of "I am Jack's [x]"

    The narrator was starting to separate himself from his actions/desires/urges/feelings and observe and eventually control them.

    You are not your job, you're not how much money you have in the bank. You are not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You are not your fucking khakis. You are all singing, all dancing crap of the world.

    I don't want to extrapolate beyond what's actually there, since that quote is largely about materialism, but it's using materialism as identity. What you own doesn't define who you are. So what about your feelings? Do they define you? What about your job? At what point do you draw the line as to what defines you vs just being a blob of stardust and bacteria that happens to exist on a rock orbiting a star?

    Very nihilistic, yes, but ultimately, freeing. It allows me to look past my feelings, actions, thoughts, desires, and anything else and really try to objectively decide. I can't be entirely objective, obviously, because I am limited by all those things (hormones, bacteria, etc), but I can still move in that direction.

    [–]DexterousRichard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is probably one of the most interesting and intelligent interactions on all of reddit.

    [–]rpscrote 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    For instance as you don't eat your blood sugar drops and your body also starts releasing hormones telling you that you are hungry and then as you continue not eating you become distracted/ irritated from the nausea and hunger pains and become overall shitty until you eventually make the decision to eat.

    This process is actually a good bit more complicated. An important point to note regarding hunger is that it is entrained on a daily basis -- if you eat at noon every day you will become hungrier at noon. Conversely, if you skip breakfast you stop being hungry around breakfast time. Once you've acclimated to it you get a sense of focus and clarity during the fasting time that is hard to achieve without. Intermittent fasting has a great number of other benefits too, especially for men. http://easacademy.org/trainer-resources/article/intermittent-fasting

    Not to disagree with the main point of your post. That shits right on

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    But high dopamine stimulus ( porn , video games , etc. ) can numb receptors that testosterone uses thus diminishing its effect.

    do you have a source? i never knew that about testorone... but it makes sense for me. There've been periods of my life I act really low T even though my levels arent bad. those periods have coincided with poor impulse control with porn and video games.

    [–]Shade_Raven 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SVi9VHAdpiU

    Somewhere past 16minutes when he talks about monkeys.

    Gary Wilson's website is yourbrainonporn.com which is filled with all sorts of information , help, and studies.

    [–]Shade_Raven 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    23:15 in that video watch till the end. Right there.

    [–]Meglomaniac -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    I never said you couldnt raise T levels, certainly can.

    However it is my opinion that the majority of men who comes to TRP initially are low testosterone.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    Got a source for this? This might seriously be my problem.

    [–]Shade_Raven 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Actually it was a interview on YouTube by Gary Wilson that I heard this

    [–]Shade_Raven 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    [–]a_nus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    For me it was mostly anxiety. My T had always been healthy, even in my peak BP years. I've always enjoyed competition, had a strong sex drive, etc. But my anxieties were what was holding me back.

    But I agree plenty of people on this sub might suffer from low T.

    [–]MyRedAccount 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    2D:4D is mostly useful as a method of characterizing populations and stereotyping.

    I checked mine the other day and it's 1 measured palm up like you're supposed to. That's like two standard deviations above the mean. I have a 7 inch(variance of about 3/4 inch or more simply I'm about 6 1/4 to 7 3/4 hard) cock and would estimate I'm above the 80th percentile in things like strength. I should be tiny and weak with a tiny cock if the 2D:4D correlations were at all accurate for my genetics. YMMV of course.

    [–][deleted] 70 points71 points  (59 children)

    Pissing me off that men can take hormones to become more of a woman but it's illegal for men to take hormones to become more of a man

    [–]KarYotypeStereotype 41 points42 points  (6 children)

    Not illegal, just highly regulated. A doc can prescribe you testosterone, but good luck making that happen if you don't have the labs to prove you need it.

    [–]rpscrote 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Anti aging clinics and dedicated Low T clinics are making it easier and easier than it ever was to get a T prescription

    [–]MindTheFuture 14 points15 points  (1 child)

    Not true. Knowing trans-people, while some herbs etc are legal, serious oestrogen and anti-androgens are as controlled as testosterone. Require diagnosis that is not easy to get, because someone might blow their liver or make themselves infertile without actually being trans*.

    That said, wouldn't mind having a easier access to as nootropics.

    [–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    It's easy to get a script for ritalin or adderall.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Do you actually have low testosterone? If you do, your GP will not prescribe anything...except maybe an antidepressant. You have two options, find a endocrinologist specialist and get referred or go to an anti-aging clinic. The latter is much cheaper and more convenient if your state allows naturopaths to prescribe, then it's cake. Pay your $400 and get your test, anti-estrogen, and hcg or other lh-similar.

    [–]through_a_ways 0 points1 point  (25 children)

    Pissing me off that men can take hormones to become more of a woman

    I don't think men can really become more lady-like, except for in their minds. Everything about testosterone reads like a biological "irreversibility".

    Just look at MtF vs FtM transexuals. The former almost always look like men in drag, unless they transitioned before puberty. The latter always look like normal men.

    The Y chromosome is the "extra" one, the X chromosome is there by default

    I think I remember reading that fetuses start out female, and then develop into males (not sure if this is true).

    [–]2johnnight 7 points8 points  (5 children)

    My guess is that testosterone is what makes animals animalistic. It's like the difference between puppies and wolves.

    Women are like soft puppies, but give them testosterone and they will develop all the male beast wolf features: strong muscles, strong bones, rectangular facial features. The softness is gone and what is gained is the functional biological strength that an animal needs to fight and survive.

    It's not that women are undeveloped men. It's more that the human species was so successful that women did not need to develop into muscular beasts in adulthood, while men still had to.

    [–]aggitator 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Or instead of developing upper body strength they developed boobs and wombs and carried babies so it was easier to run away from danger without lugging all that extra weight around, they also required less food so they didnt have to squable with their partners over it.

    [–]through_a_ways 6 points7 points  (3 children)

    It's more that the human species was so successful that women did not need to develop into muscular beasts in adulthood, while men still had to.

    No, it's not simply that women did not need to develop masculinity in adulthood, but that there probably was an advantage to them not doing so.

    It's why anthropologists think blue eyes spread throughout Europe, and why the Ainu and the Norwegians (who likely had a much longer history of cooking with fire, out of climate necessity) have the smallest tooth sizes, and Australians the largest.

    "Sexual selection" is an oft-used word, but very few attempts are ever made to describe why sexual selection takes place, and why its different forms are so often convergent among apparently disparate human groups.

    I think as far as tooth/jaw size reduction goes, it could have something to do with muscle, meaning that it could be more natural than sexual selection. Muscle is very metabolically active, so selecting for less of it means there's more energy available to other parts of the body (like the brain).

    [–]2johnnight 7 points8 points  (2 children)

    To answer yours and aggitator's comment, a simplified narrative of homo sapiens' specialization is this:

    Women are Protected Incubators. Men are Disposable Protectors of the Incubators.

    An unfair and outrageous claim, but that is what it boils down to. Evolution decided that this setup was the most efficient and successful one and that is what won.

    The Neanderthal species tried a different route. Their females were more masculine and were forced by the tribe to take part in animal hunting. They got killed more often, while being pregnant and that is one of the reasons why they have lost the evolutionary war.

    Women do [not] need upper body strength, because they have men for it. Women do not need to interact with the outside world that much, because they can safely live inside the male tribe world. If it was anything else, there would be selective pressure on women to be like lionesses: self-sufficient predators and mothers at the same time.

    [–]aggitator 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Alot scientist also claim that animals that are monogamous have far less sexual dimorphism, as you find in neanderthals, hence ther masculin appearance.

    the human jaw has androgen receptors which, during puberty recieves signals from testosterone to enlarge. The effects of this once fully grown are significantly less but still noticeable.

    [–]through_a_ways 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    The Neanderthal species tried a different route. Their females were more masculine and were forced by the tribe to take part in animal hunting. They got killed more often, while being pregnant and that is one of the reasons why they have lost the evolutionary war.

    Don't forget the neotenized, gracile, sexually promiscuous, and relatively tame Bonobos, vs. the aggressive violent common Chimpanzee.

    The former number ~40,000, the latter ~250,000. And just look at their respective geographic ranges:

    Bonobo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Bonobo_distribution.svg

    Chimp: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Pan_troglodytes_area.png

    [–]aggitator 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    As far as i know the foetuses do start out female, androgen exposure in the womb causes the ovaries to descend and the clitorus to enlarge. It is speculated that at this point the y chromosome develops, kind of like a deforming mutation from excessive levels of androgen:)

    [–]ShitArchonXPR 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Counterpoint: Chaz Bono was a giant hamplanet. He's still somewhat fat.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Do you actually have low testosterone? If you do, your GP will not prescribe anything...except maybe an antidepressant. You have two options, find a endocrinologist specialist and get referred or go to an anti-aging clinic. The latter is much cheaper and more convenient if your state allows naturopaths to prescribe, then it's cake. Pay your $400 and get your test, anti-estrogen, and hcg or other lh-similar.

    [–][deleted]  (22 children)

    [removed]

      [–]through_a_ways 3 points4 points  (13 children)

      We have the geniuses and the conquerers, but we also have the idiots.

      Honestly though, mean male IQ is significantly higher than female IQ to the point where there should be as many male idiots as female ones.

      I suspect that the perceived prevalence of males in special ed programs is because of other anti-academic male qualities, like lack of social intelligence and work ethic.

      [–]TreePlusTree 13 points14 points  (12 children)

      Wait what? Every IQ curve by gender I've ever seen has men a few points below women on average, but with a significantly larger standard deviation (spread). Men should dominate the top, and, to a greater extent, the bottom as well. Women spike much higher at their mean, clustering the 95-110ish area much more than men.

      [–]dickholedoug 2 points3 points  (3 children)

      Did you miss the post that was at the top of reddit a couple months ago showing in a study that males had higher and lower extremes to IQ where females were not as high or low, but clustered?

      [–]through_a_ways 7 points8 points  (5 children)

      You haven't seen a lot of curves then.

      Just recently, it was found that female average IQ very slightly edged out the male mean, and there were news headlines about it everywhere. So basically from whenever up until 2012 or so, males had higher mean IQs.

      Not to mention the tests are probably quite slanted to female strengths by now. Ever remember seeing any sort of spatial rotation question on a standardized college entry test? Didn't think so.

      [–]vakerr 10 points11 points  (0 children)

      Just recently, it was found that female average IQ very slightly edged out the male mean

      IQ tests are constructed in a way to result in identical means for males and females. So that was just an artifact of 'tuning' the tests.

      wiki:

      Items like the MRT and RT tests that show a male advantage in IQ are often removed.

      [–]TreePlusTree 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I specifically remember finding the curves online after running across one in my high school stat class back in 2007. Never looked for it again since, but they were all exactly as I described. I remember seeing it and thinking "holy shit, I fuckin knew it!" But still wanted to look into it a bit before getting my hopes up. Honestly, makes some sense to me. I'll take high standard deviation over high mean any day as a gender. Luckily, it worked in my favor!

      [–]Senior ContributorDemonspawn 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Just recently, it was found that female average IQ very slightly edged out the male mean

      Mean don't mean shit. It's all about the greater male variability.

      This article covers math rather than IQ, but the affect of larger male SD on talent holds true here as well.

      "Sex differences in both mean and variance contribute to the preponderance of men in the Academy, but they contribute unequally. At this level of ability men predominate mostly because of their greater variability. If we set the mean difference to zero and redo the calculation, men would constitute 91% of the Academy membership, down from 95%, but still a hefty majority. Alternatively, if we set the variance ratio to unity, leaving the means intact, the male representation drops substantially to 64%."

      [–]through_a_ways 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yes, we know. What I was saying is that the male mean is significantly higher as well, to the point where "dullards" by IQ would be equally represented in males and females.

      [–]Hoodwink 4 points5 points  (6 children)

      We have the geniuses and the conquerers, but we also have the idiots.

      I hate to get mensrights here, but I think one of the reasons we have this is 'cultural' (or more accurately, women inherently have value because of their womb/baby-making). Women almost always have this option as a fallback after failing (or just before failing or not even).

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I was told that gender was just a construct /s

      [–]bookhockey24 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Can you go into more detail about the hormonal experiences of transmen you've met?

      [–]bebestman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Just remember that 1) taking estrogen as a (cis)male would have similar mind-blowing results and 2) women aren't worst or better than men...just different.

      Medically speaking, how long-lasting and how reversible are the effects of estrogen? If it relatively safe to take the substance, it would be a very interesting experiment to take a shot of estrogen as a male, to get a different point of view.

      [–]1iluminatiNYC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      From what I understand, it is reversible, because there have been isolated reports of people undergoing transitioning, pulling the plug for various reasons (mostly other unrelated medical issues going on) and losing the effects. Long-lasting is a different story. I am not a doctor, so I couldn't say for sure.

      [–]StrikePrice 55 points56 points  (2 children)

      "A warning to listeners that they talk about looking at women and wanting sex during this interview." WTF has this world come to?

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]rockedup18 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Micro what, I refuse to accept that as a term or even real phenomenon.

        [–][deleted]  (12 children)

        [removed]

        [–]rpscrote 32 points33 points  (2 children)

        To try it out the other way by lowering testosterone and upping the oestrogen and seeing how different the world must seem from a woman's eyes.

        Modern men are already there, with T levels in the shitter because of terrible lifestyle choices and environmental estrogen sources. Unless you take pains to preserve it, your endocrine system is likely far from optimal.

        Increasing your testosterone is the FIRST thing any man seeking self-actualization should do. http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/01/18/how-to-increase-testosterone-naturally/

        [–]aitchfourex 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        Shameless shill /r/steroids

        [–]jimmyjoejimbob 7 points8 points  (7 children)

        A curious friend of mine took a couple of weeks worth of the pill. He said that he could feel himself getting bitchier and less rational which is quite telling given his scientific background.

        [–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        This could be the placebo effect though - we need to have a blind control.

        [–]cuntbh 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        I've noticed this about women on the pill- they are, in general, bitchier. After all, if you're taking a hormone which negates the purpose of your body, why wouldn't it affect your mood and mind?

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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          [–]cuntbh 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Given that most contraceptive pills are a combination of Oestrogen and Progestogen, I doubt that this is the case- if anything, I'd expect the opposite to be true, that the heightened Oestrogen levels would push them away from the natural male hormone balance.

          [–]GC0W30 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Maybe he means that it keeps them level all month?

          [–]cuntbh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Perhaps, but given that the Pill is a placebo one week in 4, I doubt it.

          Disclaimer: I know very little about biology. I took it to AS level, but it wasn't scientific enough, so I dropped it. My comments here are opinions deducted from what I do know. If someone has a source to contradict me, or is better educated, don't hesitate to tell me I'm wrong.

          [–]juanqunt 24 points25 points  (23 children)

          http://fusion.net/story/42619/why-testosterone-is-the-drug-of-the-future/

          Good article on how testosterone improves quality of life.

          [–][deleted]  (21 children)

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            [–]juanqunt 6 points7 points  (20 children)

            $5-10 per week in America/UK through UGLs... maybe $15-30 in Australia for 250-500 mg per week. AI and PCT could double the cost if you need to take them. Multiply by another factor of 3-5 if you're getting pharmagrade, either through black market or clinic, but IMO that's not necessary.

            But if you run GH or add in other hormones, that could cost a lot more.

            [–]1kick6 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            truth. legit GH is a $600/mo hobby. Easily.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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              [–]juanqunt 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              UGL: underground lab. Most are underdosed, some are unsanitary, but if you find a really good one, they can be as good as pharma grade.

              AI: aromatase inhibitor, decreases estrogen

              PCT: post cycle therapy- other chemicals you take after you go off to return yourself to natural levels... you can choose to cruise and use HCG once/twice a year instead then go off without the PCT. A lot of contradictory views on this.

              Diet:

              Chicken drumsticks, quarters, thigh, wing, etc : $0.75-2/lb

              Beef liver: $2/lb

              Tilapia: $4/lb

              Organic coconut oil: $20 big jar lasts several months

              Kerrygold butter: about 2-3 times price of your usual butter, still cheap. $3 easily lasts you 2-3 weeks.

              Frozen veggies/berries: $1-3/lb, sometimes canned, but frozen is better.

              White rice: $20 for 50lbs, lasts forever, probably years

              Banana: $0.50/lb

              Fruit juice: $4/half gal

              Eggs: $1.5/dozen

              Egg whites: $8 for 300g of protein AKA 6pk of 16oz

              Google list of fruits/veggies where there's actually no difference between organic or not. Get them in large frozen bags. Go to Costco, certain grocery stores in sketchy neighborhoods, butchers, etc and buy in bulk for good deals.

              [–][deleted]  (13 children)

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                [–]juanqunt 4 points5 points  (12 children)

                Not really... just don't get fat. If you stay under 10%bf and keep your estro and water in check, you will gain maybe only 5lbs of real dry muscle mass over natural limit... it could be 25lbs if you get bloated as hell though. Food is cheap, I get 4000+ calories per day for under $70 per week. All raw ingredients, high protein, and mostly organic.

                [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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                    [–]EmperorAurelius 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                    Only $60?? I spend more than that a week and leave the store with only half of what you get....I need to rethink my shopping strategy.

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                      [–]EmperorAurelius 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      True. My problem is where I shop. I live in a rather "upper class" area, though far from upper class. The grocery stores around here are on the expensive side and I'm too lazy to drive to any other stores. Buy recently I've started noticing how much money I'm spending for so little. I will for sure have to look into changing that.

                      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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                        [–]juanqunt 4 points5 points  (3 children)

                        How much are they juicing? How fat did they get? Did they reach their natural potential before starting?

                        Natural potential is about 24-25 FFMI when ripped. If you're staying under 1 gram, you will only get to maybe 26 FFMI when ripped. Great genetics + huge abuse of AAS might get you to 28.5 FFMI shredded, beyond that, you need GH + slin.

                        If you're 6'0" 192lbs at 7%bf dry, that's a FFMI of 24.4, pretty much natural limit. If you run 500mg total AAS for a year and stay at 7%bf dry, you'd probably grow to 200lbs, which is a FFMI of 25.3. That's very reasonable gains. Now after your first 2 weeks on test, you might even bloat up to 210lbs, but that's not real muscle gain, that's all estro bloating. If you embrace the bloat, you'd probably end up at 220+ lbs wet and hovering around 10%bf especially if you carb up while on tren and also add in some dbol for more bloating, you might even reach 240lbs, but that's not all muscle. If you do that, then you do in deed need a new wardrobe. This is why I usually try to put masteron in the mix whenever I go above 250mg/week. IMO most bang for your buck in terms of life style is 400mg test + 400mg mast per week. You're gonna stay dry and lean on that and would never become a mass monster on that.

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        Wait, wait, wait. So you dont want to be a mass monster??

                        [–]juanqunt 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                        I don't see a point... unlike 99% of gear users out there. I'm using the minimal dosage to enhance my lifestyle and I get no side effects and basically no health risks. Spending $10 per week and pinning only once per week to maintain physique near natural limit while feeling confident all the time is well worth it. Another bonus is that it's decent for birth control. I'm content with that.

                        The diminishing marginal returns for steroids is simply terrible and it only comes with increased health risks and less money in your wallet.

                        [–]mrp3anut 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        Just wondering, what do you think being under 10% bf looks like?

                        [–]juanqunt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Varies from person to person as well as subcutaneous water when on wet compounds. Key factor is the inability to pinch much skin off any where on your body (for example, under 10mm caliper ready at abs and legs). If you're dry and sub-8%, you will see lots of detail; some detail when sub-10%. Not necessarily if you're bloated.

                        [–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (12 children)

                        Imagine if we could inject every feminist with testosterone.

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                          [–]through_a_ways 56 points57 points  (0 children)

                          That's the point, so you'll get diminishing returns on fugliness, and large returns on logicality.

                          [–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

                          I already have too much fun injecting them with hot beef though.

                          [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (7 children)

                          I'm not a feminist, just female, and I'm pretty sure I have high testosterone (for my gender) since my life is already like what she described, except for that brief period I took hormonal birth control. I'm still very feminine in behavior and appearance, and anti-feminist, but it feels great. If I was a guy I would totally do steroids. Maybe.

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                                  [–]occupythekitchen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                  Your testosterone levels may be high but not even low t man status

                                  [–]fizolof 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  What do you mean by "your life is what she described"?

                                  [–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (12 children)

                                  I think this is something many, many young women need to hear.

                                  Men can not control their sexual urges and other factors any more than a woman can control having her period (in fact, with simple BC, many women can in fact control it, but i am discounting putting anything from the outside in the body).

                                  Men can not control nature any more than a woman. I personally have always felt if women as a whole could accept this fact, that men, by nature, are horny, semi aggressive, competitive, it would do the world, at least the west, a lot of justice when it comes to gender matters of fairness and behavior.

                                  We live in a society where it's completely acceptable for a female to cry, be dramatic, be sensitive. Many would argue this is part f nature and estrogen. We as a whole do not attack them for it or hold it against them, we actually accept it to a large degree. But if a man is on the prowl for sex, he is a monster, a creep or a pervert.

                                  Part of this opinion is what I see in my personal every day life. the women I know who can accept that men and women differ, that we want different things, they are the ones who don't complain about men. They dont' fault a man for being attracted to her. The women I know who seem to always utter the phrase "all he wants is sex", those are the women I see in my life who have a struggle with men, hate men or can't "find a good one".

                                  At some point, as an one of the more advanced societies, we need to collectively realize the biological makeup of a person, even when it comes to sex or gender, is a huge factor that needs to be accepted and not viewed as barbaric, sick or wild.

                                  I say this from a men's prospective, but I feel when women can accept that men think, feel and want differently than women, men will actually behave better towards women. When men do the majority of the "hunting" (looking for a partner, making the move, talking to her etc), and their nature is questioned or put into a bad light, it can cause a social rift because you can put men on the defensive, and this in turn can offend women.

                                  [–]Hithard_McBeefsmash 28 points29 points  (2 children)

                                  Men can not control their sexual urges

                                  We're not mindless savages; of course we can control them. But we can't remove them. They are always there, and that is our burden.

                                  [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                  Considering an urge is an impulse by definition...... you can manage, not control

                                  [–]Senior ContributorRedPope 22 points23 points  (3 children)

                                  Men can not control their sexual urges and other factors any more than a woman can control having her period

                                  Shitty analogy. Men can totally control how they behave when experiencing sexual desire. Just as women can control how they behave while menstruating. So why do we forgive them when they slip? Because women are the gender without self control. Everyone knows it. Even them.

                                  ... we need to collectively realize ... needs to be accepted ... I feel when women can accept ...

                                  MRA bullshit. This is juvenile thinking. Let go of the daydream and accept reality. You will never change how women think. Never. You will not get society to extend the pussypass to grown men. Why would you want to?

                                  Accept the world as it is. There is plenty of room to be a man, to play, have fun, and lead an enjoyable life. Gender equality is a pointless cause that will only make you miserable. Find something real to fight for.

                                  [–]fauxshoh 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                  This. I hate seeing victim-championing MRA shit on here like "it's so hard being a man :-(".

                                  [–]lilith_ester 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                  It's easy for the masculine behaviors you describe to become criminal, it's obvious why masculine behaviors are viewed with suspicion. But I agree we have to accept that this is "human nature" and that these instincts are actually NECESSARY to a large degree.

                                  [–]a_nus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                  I'd argue female behaviors may also easily facilitate criminal behavior (see pussy pass.) It's just that male behavior turning criminal is easier to spot since it's pretty straightforward.

                                  [–]reallylongusername12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  yes, the mating initiation has traditionally been a responsibility and obligation of men. this is changing though, it seems. overall, i'd agree that at some point, maybe soon, in the future when females hit on males with at least some comparable rate as males hit on females, then this will shift.

                                  just to clarify the above, it's known that females often 'initiate' with eye contact or other subtle signals honed by years of evolution. the above is not about that, it's more about the differences in the level of intensity and desire and (for lack of a better term) 'forwardness' with which the genders pursue each other in a given setting.

                                  [–]fordmarkII 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  Thanks.

                                  This is gonna sound ignorant and retarded, but I have to say it. I'd urge all "trans curious" people to just stick to their biological sex. If there's a way to do that, I have no idea, maybe you need proper guidance in your life or something, maybe you're lost, you'll avoid all the bullying and hell society will throw at you if you don't do it and stay original.

                                  Growing up like this must be terrifying, imagine being at school. Imagine having brutal parents you had to hide this secret from. I think your life will potentially be a bit better, at least, if you manage to stick to your original sex.

                                  There will ALWAYS be ignorance and "bigotry" around towards this, do you want every second conversation you have with someone to be about your trans life?

                                  [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                                  [–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                  • Name five great female composers.
                                  • Name five great female scientists.
                                  • Name five great female leaders.
                                  • Name five great female entepreneurs.
                                  • Name five great female thinkers.
                                  • Name five great female chefs
                                  • Name five great female engineers.
                                  • ...

                                  Oh. And this isn't the special olympics. Name only women who are able to compete with the men in that particular field and have performed equally or better.

                                  [–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (18 children)

                                  This reminds me of transgender propaganda cause she lives "as a man". They can taste what it is like to be a man, but they will never fully be a man nor identify with a man, and vice versa with men trying to be women. The whole transgender thing has gone out of control. I refuse to acknowledge someone who is born as a gender, yet identifies with the opposite as their desired gender, even if they take pills and get plastic surgery.

                                  Fallon Fox is what changed my mind. As much as you try to make the biological DNA coding suppressed, it will always be there as a foundation. In Fallon's case, no amount of surgery and pills could take away the bone density and muscle density growth that comes along with the natural function of a males body. HE is still man down to the bone.

                                  You will find nothing but junk science that supports the whole Trans mantra and that is what is consistently offered up in these scenarios. You have to analyze it very carefully because some of the science presented is wrapped up in a pretty bow, and if you don't know what you are looking at, it can confuse you.

                                  You will also find in their agenda the most common thing used in defense is the over use of the word Bigot, and the word Phobic. They use these words to throw you off subject and to keep you from pointing out the irony.

                                  Some Ironies I find are :

                                  • One identifies as a gender, their sexual organ doesn't designate their gender, yet to feel complete they feel the need to change their parts with plastic.

                                  • They will tell you that they identify with a gender role, yet in an equal society and a feminists society everyone has equal roles. Women are to be empowered in any job or function as equal to a man. How can one define their gender by their role if all roles are equal. So they fall back to the way they dress, which is simply a behavior of a transvestite.

                                  • Transgenderism is a Disorder, but it's not a disorder, it's an identity crisis, but it's not an identity crisis.

                                  To sum it up, people who like to dress as the opposite sex want special treatment and want us to bend our understanding and acceptance of science and everything that designates the definition of a Gender AKA Sex of a person to suit their mental psychosis.

                                  No one is saying don't dress like a girl as a man. Go right ahead, have fun. Don't force me to accept you as a woman and call me a phobic bigot because of what I know through science which is the gender, or sex of a animal is based on their reproductive organs. it has been and always will be that way unless these people want us to go back to the draconian ages and support the idea that women have a ROLE and men have a ROLE in society and those roles are strictly preserved.

                                  The reality is there is only one role, and that is how each one of us acquires long term mates, which is well defined in Red Pill Theory.

                                  [–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                                  If you look at the evidence, there is a HUGE number of M->F trans people that have committed suicide post-op. It happens a lot.

                                  There are disorders in which a person feels like they're dead. Do we prescribe cyanide to help make that real? There are people for whom they feel like their own limbs are not a part of them. Do we cut off a hand to make reality match that? IMO, we need to start treating transsexualism as what it is: a mental disorder.

                                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                  we need to start treating transsexualism as what it is: a mental disorder.

                                  This is my point entirely. Thank you for understanding it.

                                  [–]Senior ContributorDemonspawn 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                                  these people want us to go back to the draconian ages and support the idea that women have a ROLE and men have a ROLE in society and those roles are strictly preserved.

                                  This is the only part I disagree with, because there are sex roles. And while society has given the OK to women being freed from their roles, they are not doing the same for men. And they never will, because without men filling their role, society falls apart.

                                  The problem is, more and more men are shirking their role. Part of women's role was to select and reward those men filling men's role, and without that reward more and more men are saying "fuck it" to the deal.

                                  Freeing men from sex roles is instantaneous social suicide.

                                  Freeing women from sex roles is also social suicide, it just happens slowly so most people don't make the connection.

                                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                                  Freeing men from sex roles is instantaneous social suicide.

                                  Freeing women from sex roles is also social suicide, it just happens slowly so most people don't make the connection.

                                  I don't follow as to why you think it is social suicide to disconnect from a sex role in society.

                                  Are you suggesting that the sex role for men is to be the approach? If they stop that society will collapse? Or are you suggesting it kills a social life of a man? Either way I would disagree because those men who check out of the game, go buy hookers.

                                  [–]Senior ContributorDemonspawn 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                  Roles for the sex.

                                  Men: protect, provide, produce more than you consume.

                                  Women: Entice men to be successful, reward success with sex and reproduction, raise the next generation.

                                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                  Okay I get your meaning now. What trasngenders would perverse as a "gender" role. Being that gender derives from gentalia, and the sex derives form the gender, the sex role makes sense as a terminology.

                                  The only one I disagree with is which sex raises the next generation. The inherent biological function of females used to be this, but it's been very prevalent in the past 30 years that it is not the case.

                                  [–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

                                  Good post. It's no surprise that there are all kinds of gender bending freaks of nature. A lot of fucked up rare shit happens, normally life naturally culls her freak litter, they just don't make it in the world. Hard for them to survive, much less reproduce.

                                  What's worth freaking out about is the shrill demand that we must now accept with open arms every freak and every perversion, without any healthy discrimination against what is ultimately unhealthy and maladaptive.

                                  Nowadays their narrative is insistent: you are absolutely not permitted to have your own hard-earned discriminatory opinions (based on your life experience) against anybody. Unless your benevolent ideological overlords have purposefully manufactured and approved the discriminatory opinion for you, it is automatically thoughtcrime.

                                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                                  [deleted]

                                    [–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                    Probably all the trigger happy trannies from the BluePill subreddit and so on, downvoting you, this is the kind of thing they all love to hate.


                                    In the elevator, shrill blue haired thing: "What do you think about trannies, TRP?"

                                    TRP answers: "I don't think about you at all.."

                                    [–]KarinaKapri 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                    I respected everything you said up until the part about transgenders wanting special treatment.. Uhh you ever think they just want to be accepted for who they want to be? Just because you're "normal" doesn't mean everything people do is for attention.

                                    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                    Uhh you ever think they just want to be accepted for who they want to be?

                                    I clarified that, They can be what they want to be all day long I don't care. They do want special treatment. That special treatment being that we be forced to identify them as the opposite sex they actually are or we are held as bigots or phobic.

                                    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 8 points9 points  (9 children)

                                    While testosterone is higher (17x or something) in men and it is responsible for the sex drive in both sexes, women are more sensitive to its effects.

                                    I suspect her sex drive is off the chart because of male T levels coupled with female sensitivity to it. Great perspective though.

                                    [–]through_a_ways 4 points5 points  (5 children)

                                    While testosterone is higher (17x or something) in men and it is responsible for the sex drive in both sexes, women are more sensitive to its effects.

                                    I've sort of thought about that. We know that sensitivity to dopamine increases when we abstain from pleasure. We also know that sensitivity to adrenal hormones increases when we abstain from stress.

                                    So it would make complete sense if women, who have very few androgens, were more sensitive to them, and if men, who have fewer estrogens, were more sensitive to these.

                                    [–]Azothlike 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                                    women are more sensitive to its effects

                                    Source?

                                    The rest of your post is just conjecture, really. I suspect that her sex drive being "off the chart" is because she spent so long with a female chart that she didn't know how to cope with, and continues to be astounded by, a typical male chart.

                                    Her biggest urge-driven faux pas was turning around to look at someone on a sidewalk. I've banned about 3 men from my store for flat out groping females or saying ridiculous lewd comments. Her sex drive is nothing special, in a male perspective.

                                    [–]rossiFan 8 points9 points  (3 children)

                                    So then what does everyone make of this Bruce Jenner transformation. It's sad. I think his ex-wife and even family de-masculinized him so badly that he just went off the deep end, but the wrong way. What say ye, TRP?

                                    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                    And apparently turned into a terrible driver in the process

                                    [–]1aguy01 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                    If you become a tranny you are probably a tranny.

                                    [–]cariboo_j 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                    He always looked like a lesbian. Wouldn't be surprised if he had some hormone imbalance from childhood onwards.

                                    [–]Abadoobie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                    This just highlights just how little the perceptions, behaviors, desires and thoughts that feminism vilifies in men can really be controlled consciously and why their theories on social and cultural engineering are not just wrong but extremely damaging. Bio-chemistry is such a powerful influence on us that to demonize and punish people for the results of a bio-chemistry they can't control is absolutely wrong.

                                    A big part of TheRedPill is simple acceptance. Accept what is and act according to that reality, whatever it ends up being. If bio-chemistry makes women volatile, petty and frail, and it makes men aggressive, hyper sexual, rational and driven then just accept that reality without the moralizing and judgmental bullshit is common to feminism. Make the best of what is, don't waste time prepairing for what isn't.

                                    [–]Newbosterone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                    Another great account of T's effects: Andrew Sullivan

                                    Because the testosterone is injected every two weeks, and it quickly leaves the bloodstream, I can actually feel its power on almost a daily basis. Within hours, and at most a day, I feel a deep surge of energy. It is less edgy than a double espresso, but just as powerful. My attention span shortens. In the two or three days after my shot, I find it harder to concentrate on writing and feel the need to exercise more. My wit is quicker, my mind faster, but my judgment is more impulsive. It is not unlike the kind of rush I get before talking in front of a large audience, or going on a first date, or getting on an airplane, but it suffuses me in a less abrupt and more consistent way. In a word, I feel braced. For what? It scarcely seems to matter.

                                    And then after a few days, as the testosterone peaks and starts to decline, the feeling alters a little. I find myself less reserved than usual, and more garrulous. The same energy is there, but it seems less directed toward action than toward interaction, less toward pride than toward lust. The odd thing is that, however much experience I have with it, this lust peak still takes me unawares. It is not like feeling hungry, a feeling you recognize and satiate. It creeps up on you. It is only a few days later that I look back and realize that I spent hours of the recent past socializing in a bar or checking out every potential date who came vaguely over my horizon. You realize more acutely than before that lust is a chemical. It comes; it goes. It waxes; it wanes. You are not helpless in front of it, but you are certainly not fully in control.

                                    [–]TekkomanKingz 1 point2 points  (14 children)

                                    So is the cure for feminism putting testosterone metabolites into municipal water supplies?

                                    [–]through_a_ways 0 points1 point  (13 children)

                                    Yeah, don't bank on them putting something that expensive in our water supplies.

                                    I think they could do so with estrogen, since synthetic estrogens are extremely cheap to manufacture (not so with androgens)

                                    Also fluoride doesn't do shit except maybe make you subclinically hypothyroid

                                    [–]2johnnight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                    Conspiracy theory: they are putting estrogens into our water supply to makes us into docile manginas!

                                    Or the modern industry has chemically castrated men, which is why there is less crime and less violence compared to pre-industrial societies.

                                    [–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (11 children)

                                    That's why I have a water filter to get the flouride out and keep the water soft for my skin.

                                    [–]Endorsed Contributorseattleron 1 point2 points  (10 children)

                                    Do you have a specific floride filter? Because a regular filter doesn't do shit to flouride, and floride filters are expensive.

                                    [–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (9 children)

                                    Culligan shower filter I mean. The Flouride in the drinking water I think can be removed with a Brita filter. You are more at risk from absorbing excess chemicals through the skin than through your mouth.

                                    [–]Endorsed Contributorseattleron 1 point2 points  (8 children)

                                    No, Brita doesn't filter it, not even close. And neither does the Culligan, unless it's a special filter. It takes special filters to do that. Burkey is the only dribking water filter I know of that can, unless you get a complete water system filter that's very expensive, you aren't filtering much of anything with those filters.

                                    [–]TekkomanKingz 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                                    Thanks, looks like it's only a little pricier than Culligan. I'll give them a try!

                                    [–]Endorsed Contributorseattleron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                    Yeah, I dove deep into the wate rfilter world a couple years ago.

                                    I'm going to make my own burkey water filter and just buy the filters and use buckets.

                                    Floride, for whatever reason, is the hardest thing to filter out.

                                    [–]Endorsed Contributorseattleron 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                                    Also, make sure it specifically says floride filter, otherwise it doesn't.

                                    [–]TekkomanKingz 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                    Reverse Osmosis units seem to be the most reliable but obviously the most pricey. Will take some convincing to get the Wife on board but not impossible. APEC seems to run cheaper at $200 for the sink unit. Shower unit will require some more digging.

                                    [–]Endorsed Contributorseattleron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                    Yeah man, it's a royal PITA. Search on youtube for a DIY Burkey floride water filter, that's the most practical for drinking water. For shower water, it doesn't look like an easy fix anywhere.

                                    [–]1independentmale 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                                    RO systems filter out fluoride, don't they?

                                    All of my drinking water is RO. System wasn't even expensive, about $150.

                                    [–]UgUgImDyingYouIdiot 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                    This is actually why I believe trannies are just attention seekers or something along those lines. She thought she was a man on the inside, but she had no idea. The excuse us always "I have always felt like (insert opposite gender)" but how do you know what that feels like ? You don't. You cannot possibly know.

                                    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                    on this - my "uncle" was born a woman and is "married" to my biological auntie. he is a pussy whipped beta bux who helped raise her kids and grand kids. does nothing except work, drink and gamble. i havent asked him what its "like" to be what he is. maybe i should.

                                    [–]Endorsed Contributorseattleron 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                    Wow - kind of eye opening to hear her (him) say she saw a brink in the wall and thought it was a brick in the wall. Just saw things literally and didn't try to make them to mean anything else.

                                    [–]4ZA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                    I like that label 'post-feminist'.

                                    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                                    I wonder if the reverse also happens. Let's suppose a man goes under hormone replacement therapy, surgery and what not, to become a woman. After some time, will she acquire all the BS behavior, hamstering and everything we know a woman does, or will she retain at least some of his former male way of thinking?

                                    [–]Newbosterone 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                                    There does not seem to be lasting effects in terms of cognition or memory, suggesting that once the brain is "wired", hormones don't change the structure.

                                    source

                                    Gonadal hormones, particularly estrogens, have been suggested to influence memory and cognitive tasks that show sex differences. Previously, we reported that male-to-female (M-F) transsexuals undergoing estrogen treatment for sex re-assignment scored higher on verbal Paired Associate Learning (PAL) than a transsexual control group awaiting estrogen treatment. The present study used a more robust design to examine further associations between estrogen and cognition. We assessed additional aspects of memory, including visual, spatial, object and location memory, other cognitive abilities that show reliable sex differences, including verbal and visual-spatial abilities, and mood variables that could mediate associations between estrogen and cognition. In addition to comparing groups of individuals on and off estrogen, we used two repeated measures designs (AB and BA). The AB group was tested prior to hormone treatment and then again after treatment had begun; the BA group was tested while on estrogen treatment and then again when hormones had been withdrawn prior to surgery. Few changes in memory or cognition were observed, and changes that were observed were not consistent across study designs. The lack of significant effects did not relate to mood changes or to the sexual orientation of participants. These findings suggest that estrogen treatment associated with sex change for M-F transsexuals has little or no influence on sex-typed aspects of cognition or memory.

                                    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                    Funny how women are allowed to inject testosterone to alter their appearance but men aren't.

                                    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                    We really need more field reports of this type. Honest field reports that we can help you with and guide you in the right direction.

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