Red Pill TheoryLife isn’t a fucking movie. So state your intentions from the beginning. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by erniesmoove

(This from an email I recieved from SimplePickup. Looks like its worth to share)

"Imagine you go into a barber shop and tell the girl that you’re just looking for a little trim. Just a little, but nothing too noticeable.

She nods along with your hair-doo request and tells you it’ll be no problem.

The entire time she’s cutting your hair, you keep telling her that a trim is all you need and she’s doing an amazing job.

Now, when it’s time to pay...you blurt out “wait but... I wanted you to shave my head”.

The barber is going to say “Uh, you told me you wanted a trim. You were smiling and enjoying yourself during the entire haircut. What are you talking about?”

And you go, “Well I want you to cut off more, please”

When she looks at you with a face mixed with surprise and confusion, all she’s thinking is Why didn’t this guy just tell me sooner?

Well, that’s what it’s like for girls on the opposite end of the friend zone.

See, when it comes to the friend zone, a lot of guys think that they’re the victims. And that’s just not true.

And if YOU think you’re the victim in a friendzone story, you need to consider her feelings.

Imagine how awkward it is for the girl to think your entire relationship is based on friendship...when in reality you want to fuck her.

The two of you have spent weeks, months, even years forming what she finds an amazing, platonic friendship.

And then all of a sudden...one day you randomly say, “Surprise! I’m in love with you!” out of the blue.

She didn’t see it coming and who’s to blame?

You’re wasting not only HER time, but YOUR time when you’re dishonest about your intentions.

You’re not making your intentions clear from the start...and that’s fucked up to the girl.

When you surprise a girl like that, they usually aren’t receptive...and here’s why.

They feel like you’ve betrayed their trust. And it hurts.

When you professed your desire to be a “good friend”, she’s thinking to herself, thank god - I’ve finally made a guy friend who isn’t trying to fuck me.

And because she truly believed that, she confided in you. She felt comfortable opening up and spending a ridiculous amount of time with you. Staying up till 2am. Doing homework together. Watching your favorite TV shows.

Girls find comfort in a deep, meaningful platonic relationship with men. It’s a solace from all the other guys out there just trying to get some. And when you take that away from her, she feels like you’ve been lying to her the entire time.

Your friendship is immediately devalued and all of a sudden...everything you had in common doesn’t matter to her because you misled her.

YOU might feel like the victim because you got denied a sexual or romantic relationship with this girl but take a step back and think about what she’s feeling.

You walked into her barbershop and told her one thing, while expecting something totally different.

Nobody likes being misled.

So what do you do?

You need make your intentions clear from the start! Sometimes girls just want friendship, and you have to respect that by being upfront with her so that she can make the decision.

If you were flirty from the beginning, telling her you think she’s cute and making it clear that you’re attracted to her, then your intentions are already completely out there.

This is the most important part:

When she knows your true intentions, she gets to decide if she wants to continue hanging out and talking with you.

It doesn't matter if you’re looking for a relationship or a consistent fuck buddy. If you aren’t making your intentions clear from the very beginning, you are only setting yourself up for a lot of wasted time and heartache.

Listen, I know why you don’t want to show your attraction from the beginning, I don’t blame you: it feels safe.

Growing up your entire life through Hollywood movies and books and tv shows... you’ve been taught that befriending while secretly having feelings for her is romantic... that professing your “true feelings” is romantic.

But it’s not.

You know that life isn’t a fucking movie. So state your intentions from the beginning.

Every second that goes by where you’re not stating your intentions, you’re digging yourself deeper into the friendzone.

Let’s break this down psychologically:

Most guys aren’t comfortable showing their attraction from the beginning because they’re afraid the girl won’t text them back or see them again.

Let’s say that happens. You tell a cute girl that you think she’s cute and you want to take her out on a date.

She says “no thanks.”

So what? This isn’t a big deal. Think about all the time you just saved.

Would you rather know that a girl isn’t open to a relationship on day one...or month 11?

Wouldn’t you rather be honest with women, than try to convince them to date you later down the line?

You have complete control over whether or not you find yourself in the friendzone, and all you have to do is be honest from the beginning.


[–]gt35r 248 points249 points  (17 children)

I can go ahead and confirm as someone who went from doing this to finally breaking out of my shell and dropping a truth bomb on a girl who has been "friends" with me since highschool. Straight up told her I'm just looking to bang, not be anything else. Guess what, we haven't talked in 2 months now. On the bright side I'm no longer a listening ear or a emotional tampon. Would recommend 10/10 times.

[–]SwissPablo 21 points22 points  (1 child)

It's a real weight off. None of the anguish of hoping against hope something might happen one day maybe. It's either yes or no.

[–]stevredpill 22 points23 points  (1 child)

The best way I would describe OP's post is an okay recommendation (be upfront about intentions) but a horrible analysis of the situation (she doesn't know and you are betraying her).

A couple items, because I feel this needs to be addressed to the masses that are up-voting OP like he is speaking truth, when he clearly is not.

  • Girl fully knows what the guys intentions are. We are fucking obvious about our intentions. It is "I want to get in your pants." Everytime you carry her books, she is thinking "this chump wants to get into my pants."
  • This is unattractive to a girl because she knows what your intentions are but she is absolutely disgusted that you don't have the balls to be forthright about it. You don't have the BALLS nor the TACT to let her know you want to get in her pants but still allow her to maintain plausible deniability of rejection of you. She wants a man that makes the move but does it in a way that escalates, not a "HEY MAN I WANT TO FCK YOU" when you first meet her.
  • But validation is validation. She wants you to beta orbit her for all eternity. So she PRETENDS she doesn't know that you want to do her. Actually, pretend is harsh. A better way to put it would be "convinces herself" or hamsters. But it's fucking obvious. She can read you like a book.
  • In addition, by pretending to be oblivious to your intentions, she wants to AGAIN maintain plausible deniability. She would hate to be socially identified as someone who uses boys as emotional tampons so she continues to pretend she doesn't know. That way if you do "reveal" that you want to do her she can act all incredulous and be like how DARE you betray my trust! Bullshit. She betrayed YOUR trust by using you as a shoulder to cry on while knowingly giving you false hope that she will fuck you.

[–]Jetpackblue 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great choice of words. It should be quite clear what our intentions are to girls. They've seen enough movies and tv shows to know men simply don't do kind favors for them only because they want to earn a boy scott badge. For a majority of the time we will always listen to a girl because we have greater intentions. What set guys to failure is when they allow the nice guy mojo to take over and eventually just appear desperate rather than giving.

[–]foldpak111 6 points7 points  (4 children)

New women will be very receptive so long as you keep increasing your value. Old women are dead as far as I'm concerned.

[–]1Zackcid 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Every time you clearly become a Stronger Version of Yourself, like you hit a new level, it's time to flush out the current "female-friends" in your life and time ta start with a fresh new batch who have no "older version of you" to compare your current, evolved self with.

In other words, new girls can't and won't know you used to be a beta.

[–]buttocks_of_stalin 1 points1 points [recovered]

Is this definitely a maxim? I have personally had girls in my life have completely turned 180 degrees after something big happened in my life and I drastically increased my value by being accepted to a prestigious college or getting a really good job right out of undergrad just as few concrete examples. But ya, I agree that if possible, it's probably best to start fresh, but I don't think it is completely mandatory. Girls change minds if you were at least in the "maybe" level on their scale and not the "hell no." At that point, it's only a matter of dignity or pride if you want to give them a chance again after they finally decided you are valuable enough to give a shot.

[–]RedHeimdall 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah if they were on the fence about you and your SMV bumps up, they can become attracted I agree. I think the point is, a new girl will think more highly of you, so to speak. Like if you knew the old girl as a 7, then you bumped yourself up to an 8. The old girl has both reference points and maybe won't be sure the new changes you've made will last, so in her mind you get an average of the two scores and end up as a 7.5. Meanwhile the new girl you meet only knows you as an 8, so to her you're a hard 8.

[–]bunhead13 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"emotional tampon"...just perfect !

[–]Redrog1 75 points76 points  (9 children)

The guy deserve what he gets for being dishonest, but you have to be naive to the bone to believe the girl doesn't know.

[–]1independentmale 38 points39 points  (6 children)

They absolutely know, but lie about it to themselves so they don't have to deal with rejecting him and risk losing that free, no strings attached emotional validation.

[–]green49 9 points9 points [recovered]

Stop pointing the finger at women. As Black Phillip has taught us "it's always your fault." Women are malleable, that's what the hamsters are for. If they can rationalize being in the situation, they will. What woman wouldn't want to be friends with men? We're much better friends than any woman will ever be to her. Can you blame her for wanting to be friends with you? You shouldn't. Put the blame on yourself for not having the courage to go for the kill. Even if it is her fault to a slight extent, it's better to put the complete blame on yourself. It teaches you that you have agency over yourself, that ultimately you are responsible for your outcomes, and that nothing will ever be handed to you, no matter how much of a Nice Guy^TM you are.

[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 2 points3 points  (2 children)

He's not pointing any fingers, he's stating a fact. Pointing a finger at a woman is to say, "Hey, you should have told me that you didn't like me!" Most men don't realize that women already know they like them, but why should she have to give up that validation if he's not going to grow a pair? They're not necessarily lying to themselves, they're simply getting what they need from you. It's the truth and as cold and harsh as that may sound to most men, it is simply opportunistic.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

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[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely. The man is responsible to himself and only to himself. Like with the concept of the friendzone: there is a friendzone, she put you in the friendzone, but you do not have to stay in the friendzone.

Likewise, the woman doesn't deserve any blame for her indirectness. It's not her fault if she doesn't want to appear stupid for telling a guy that she doesn't like him and to not expect anything on the initial encounter. When it comes to women, a man must be willing to risk all or nothing to get what he wants. He may or may not get what he wants, but if he wishes to blame a woman for not telling him she didn't like him, then she could hold him accountable for not telling her initially that he liked her, regardless of the fact that she would have likely already known.

[–]stevredpill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got to agree with Invalidity. Your point is irrelevant to what 1independentmale is trying to say.

[–]stevredpill 1 point2 points  (0 children)


I scoured the comments to find if anyone made this point.

Although the action is the same (being forthright about your intentions), you'd be stupid to think she doesn't know. The girl knows the minute you are doing shit for her that you want to get in her pants. That is a given for the girl. The girl is simply maintaining plausible deniability. She wants to maintain the illusion that "she didn't know" so that in the situation that you do "betray" her and let her know your intentions, they can fall back and say they didn't know so they don't look like jerks for knowingly using you as an emotional tampon.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 84 points85 points  (35 children)

Most girls instantly categorize men into those they'll fuck and those they can potentially use as orbiters. You absolutely don't want to give her even the tiniest inkling that you're going to be the latter.

Being openly sexual and direct is remarkably effective, contrary to the reasoning that it's too forceful and "douchey". Sexual boldness is a defining quality in nearly all variants of Game. If you get friendzoned it's because you signaled that you wanted her as a friend, not a fuck toy.

[–]Complecs 25 points26 points  (4 children)

This is exactly right. A buddy of mine is dating this cute enough chick nearing the wall, out at a bar one night with them I jokingly told her to go start flirting with some guys to get us all free drinks. She starts going off about how easy that is and she does it all the time blah blah blah. But she also started pointing guys out one by one that she knew would buy her drinks. It was pretty interesting, at the time I had been reading TRP for a few months, and with the veil lifted I could easily spot these guys aswell. Bad posture, closed up, just had this 'soft' aura about them, and of course they were all in packs of 3-4 guys that looked every bit as sad as the ones she pointed out. Made for an educational night

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (3 children)

I have really bad posture sitting on bar stool because I am tall, and I have had girls come up and ask me to buy them drinks so many times. Saying "No thanks, you're not my type" drives them crazy the entire time they stay at the bar that they usually come back and try to make conversation after. I can feel their gaze leave the area and go sit and stare at me and hear the wheel turning.

[–]a_nus 24 points25 points  (1 child)

They can't help but be intruiged by rejection. Went out this weekend and a girl asked me to buy her a shot. I said no, and she asked if I didn't have money. I said I did, but none to spend on her. Didn't see her for a couple of hours until the bar was closing, she comes over amd kisses me (she was wasted.) It's almost funny how little effort I put to receive a kiss when I could've dried up her vagina by buying her shots.

[–]snukums 5 points6 points  (0 children)

to be fair, it could have just been the dehydrating side effects of alcohol

[–]Postboned 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Hey you. Can you get me a drink?"

"Sure.. bartender, I would like to order a glass of water for m'lady." tips fedora

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar 5 points6 points  (1 child)

You would be amazed how much women respect sexual directness. They love it.

Short story: I was rampaging at a club, doing approaches. I ended up hitting on a girl in the line to the bathroom. I was being fairly direct, when I noticed she had a wedding ring on. I said, "Oh snap, you're married!" She gave a disappointed look and said, "Yeah... but I have a lot of single friends! Come meet them!" Cut to: a bachelorette party of 9 women.

Women love directness.

[–]PlebDestroyer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And therefore GoodLookingLoser's aggressive game is best? I think so.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Different variants of Game for different purposes. Direct game works better on mega sluts, they want to cut to the chase. GLL has a lot of good resources for it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

GLL is amazing and arguably the best resource if you want quick sex with ~sexually active~ girls.

[–]jaysire 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Now imagine she actually wanted to fuck you and when all you offered was friendship, she got tired. Imagine that she slowly fades out of your life when you swear all you ever did was giver her friendship. What kind of bitch turns down friendship?

A lot of people, it turns out. People who just want to be buddies are easy to deal with. They come by once in a while and you hang out, have a few beers and then you don't have to see them for a long time.

Now imagine being a man and having this one puppy-eyed fan who always wants to hang out. Every day. He wants to share secrets and just talk on the phone and chat every... freaking... day.

I've had some people like that around and let me tell you - I do what the girls do in the same situation: I just slowly fade out. Sure, it would be nice to just say "hey man, no offence, but you're kind of lame", but a dude shouldn't need to say that to another dude. Same thing with women, I imagine. They feel they shouldn't have to explain why constant contact is tiresome, so they just fade out and leave the poor sod cursing the friend zone and having the added humiliation of BAD friendship on top of it all.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I friend zoned this girl after learning she was batshit crazy. She turned out to be a shity friend, standing me up because she "was dying" and shit like that. I guess she faded out of my life too, every once a week I will text her something along the lines of "you alive brah?" and she never responds.

[–]DenverMalePM4Fun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Imagine that she slowly fades out of your life when you swear all you ever did was giver her friendship. What kind of bitch turns down friendship?

This has been running through my head. It seems like lately i've been ONS these chicks on the first date easy, had amazing sex, and then I can't get them back to my place again. Different problem I suppose, but in my head its like "bitch, you don't even want me as a friend?"

[–][deleted] 79 points80 points  (10 children)

It's true, the girls's surprise when the beta finally expresses his intentions can sometimes be almost genuine. The hamster is so powerful it can rationalize stringing him along by convincing itself the beta really does just want to be friends. Even if to other males it is obvious he wanted the pussy all along.

Edit: She may not even need to convince herself. If he's a true beta she will not see him as a sexual being at all. So, in that sense, her surprise IS genuine.

The lesson here? Don't assume she knows you're attracted to her. Better to escalate too much than too little. Better to get rejected and be able to move the fuck on, than to spend time, any amount of time, as an orbiter. The semi-red pill man might say of his previous beta experience: "Of course she knew I wanted to fuck her, she just wanted to use me (for validation etc.)." He is still at the anger phase and is making excuses, blaming her rather than himself for not being more sexually assertive.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 28 points29 points  (5 children)

The semi-red pill man might say of his previous beta experience: "Of course she knew I wanted to fuck her, she just wanted to use me (for validation etc.)." He is still at the anger phase

I don't agree with this at all and the amount of whiteknighting going on here is fucking ridiculous. I'm sorry, but 228 upvotes on this?

Anger does not have to be involved in accepting the fact that girls knowingly sap friendship and attention from guys who are attracted to them. What is this bullshit about them "confiding in you. Feeling comfortable opening up..." "then you HURT her with your deception." The only deception going on is the girl deceiving the guy that he had a chance.

Ironically, the girl also deceives herself by convincing herself it's okay to leverage someones attraction into a constant stream of validation so long as that guy hasn't outwardly shown his intentions.
That's called plausible deniability my friends, and if you found nothing wrong with the OP, then you better familiarize yourself with it. It is probably top three in the female sexual strategy arsenal.

The mistake of the OP is that it buys into the superficial rationalization of the girl- the story she has woven after all of her actual motivations and schema have played out so she can feel good about herself (feel like her reputation is maintained). And the funny part is, her hamster is so powerful that it can erase any remote semblance of calculated agency. In other words, she's so good at lying to herself that OP, people ITT, and betas worldwide buy into it as well.

Still don't believe me? Part 2 of that video illustrates the hypocrisy well enough. Called the fuck out.

TL;DR: Women are programmed to secure commitment from as many guys as possible. Acknowledging this is not cynical.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 24 points25 points  (2 children)

You saved me a lot of typing.

Women know that the timid loser who's always doing shit for her doesn't want to be her platonic buddy.

But then, what's their move? It's the man's job to be direct and in control. Do we really expect women to say:

"Hey, you've been hanging around me a lot, so I just want to make my intentions clear from the get go. I will never, ever date you or fuck you, no matter what you do for me or how long we know each other. Never. If you still want to hang around doing shit for me, I'll take your generosity, but then I'm going to go fuck the entire douchebag team instead of you, even though none of them have ever done crap for me, because they're hot and you're ugly. Just wanted to get that out there so you'd know my intentions from the start."

[–]TheRedPhil 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Or they know and are surprised that the beta actually mustered up courage to confess.

[–]SwissPablo 11 points12 points  (0 children)

"Awwwww bless! How cute!" peck on the cheek.

[–]Fen94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that if you don't make it crystal clear what you want, both parties can fool themselves into thinking that the other party absolutely doesn't want sex/will want sex, depending on what they themselves want.

I think moving on in this case is definitely better

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (21 children)

I agree that it's best to be honest about your intentions from the beginning but that does not mean that women are clueless to men's intentions. They know when you're attracted to then because they can fucking tell when you're checking out their ass and whatnot. But they simply won't be attracted to you because betas who aren't honest about their intentions are obviously unconfident and that's not attractive. This message is just another pathetic attempt and convincing us all that women are perpetual victims.

[–]NabroleonBonaparte 35 points36 points  (12 children)

Exactly this. It's good in saying to be authentic from the start but this post was way too femcentric. Understand HER side, HER trust is betrayed,SHE'S a victim.

That barber analogy sucked. It's more like she finds out you do hair and you invite her out. She comes to your establishment and asks for various hairstyles all the while you're expecting a payment at some point (she came to, in this case, a professional setting. Women aren't dumb they know when you're in a romantic setting). So then you finally say "that'll be $X" and she's shocked because you're friends and she thought this was from the kindness of your heart.

Sure, mention the prices up front so she knows but her naivety isn't your fault. You're not a monster that made her suffer because of her misunderstanding.

PUA = white knights juiced up on purplepill

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife 1 point2 points  (5 children)

To be fair, the purple pill talk is necessary to draw in a wider audience.

[–]NabroleonBonaparte 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Yeah but I've rarely seen someone use purple pill to strategically unplug people. I've only seen people who couldn't cope with the truth so they tone it down to stay comfortable.

It's like a doctor recommending you flu medicine and then telling you to also purchase a neutralizing agent to take with it. Clearly everyone would question the doctor since they want to be cured soon rather than delayed for no good reason on weaker medicine. Either you're red or you're lying to yourself.

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife 1 point2 points  (3 children)

People are more inclined to buy into something if they perceive it to be more mainstream. Trying to convince an AFC to swallow TRP is a lot more difficult than selling them a purple pill pua course with entertaining videos and podcasts.

It's a business.

[–]NabroleonBonaparte 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You're going two different ways with this comment. First half, yes you can ease someone into redpill with purplepill but who goes that way intentionally? They have to be spoon fed until they're ready for the real deal. Therefore they're swallowing lies.

Leading into the second part, yes if someone's using it as a business strategy they have no intention to redpill someone, just get their money for as long as possible. I highly doubt a lot of PUAs are that machiavellian and actually believe half the shit they sell. Like I said either you're red or you're lying

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They definitely tone things down to appeal to a wider audience, yes.

[–]NabroleonBonaparte 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PookIsLove: *sticks fingers in ears "LALALA THEY TONE IT DOWN, YES! LALALA"

You're cool, have an upvote

[–]Luke666808g -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

Doesn't the red pill also say that women are incapable of truly empathizing with men? That means they only have one thing to go on, which is the frame you lead the interaction with.

[–]Luke666808g 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Does it make a difference? You can't know what's in their head, and you can only control one side of the interaction, YOURS, so what's the point of ascribing nefarious intentions to women in that case? What an unproductive thing to feel. Personally I'd rather see the world OPs way, instead of being bitter and cynical about everything.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Don't conflate awareness with cynicism. Girls know betas like them. End of story. Being a butthurt cynic about it isn't the only logical result of this knowledge, and if it is for you, I'd recommend thinking about why that is. The most likely answer is that you're clinging to the lie of female purity and innocence, which is precisely the flaw behind the OP.

[–]Luke666808g 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I just look at it from a different angle, you can't blame a woman for being a woman, what they rationalize or don't is irreverent, we should take responsibility for our failures, no one forced you to be friends, no one held a gun to your head and said "be that woman's friend right this instant!" that was your choice, (or whoever's choice)

[–]2wiseclockcounter 1 point2 points  (2 children)

for the sake of punctuation, totally with you. But the undertone of the OP is very harmful to impressionable newbies who've likely found themselves in the friendzone in the first place precisely because they were caught up in the rationalizations of a girl. A girl who is in a friendship designed to benefit her on the basis of the guys attraction. Which of course means the rationalizations are not irrelevant for those without a clue.

Tell your friendzoner you want to fuck her and she will guilt you into believing you're a terrible friend. She thinks you're terrible for being fixated on her beauty, yet fails to see how she's fixated on your attention and undying supplication. She will convince you that being caring and supporting is what a girl really needs. If only you'd consider her feelings more! Everything would be set right... Wrong. Buying into how a woman feels her sexless orbiter should behave might as well be castration. And I feel like OP has way too much of that going on for it to be good for this community.

[–]Luke666808g 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I see what you're saying, I suppose it's a matter of pragmatism, you have to view things a particular way not to fall into the feelings trap, when in reality their feelings are no more noble than ours, women are ruled by self-interest to the same degree as men are.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

well put. haha, we had like three different threads going on here, that was a bit confusing.

[–]foldpak111 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It's sickening the smiles they have when they say yes. It's why they are happy all the time. Beta orbiters keeping unworthy Women's egos high.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it's not sickening once you embrace the fact that women are emotionally driven beings. It's not sickening that a pride of lions will eat an adorable baby elephant. It may be disturbing seeing it for the first time, but it's fully understandable. It's simply nature.

[–]JovianTrainWreck 6 points7 points  (1 child)

TRP = "Be honest with her, don't puss out."


Watch them gloss past this sweet ass article, find an unindorsed post from a newbie instead, and then blast it all over 2XC with a fucking megaphone, perpetuating more BS pegging TRP as more things that it clearly isn't. How can a female not agree with the analogy here?

Seriously though, fuck those people.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

To be fair, this isn't core TRP behaviour this is just common sense that a lot of betas seem to have lost ...

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Kong needs to start seeing a male barber.

Anyway, I like this. It flips the responsibility on men because we are the ones deciding the dynamics of the relationship, as we should. The women should be receiving your invitation and merely deciding whether she accepts the deal or not, it is not on her to have a friend option if you don't give her one. The key word here is responsibility. We are men. We embrace our responsibilities and go forth.

[–]chadeusmaximus 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Maybe he likes her bobs in his face when she checks if his hair cut is even?

[–]snukums -1 points0 points  (0 children)

He likes that it reminds asian girl's of their fathers

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar 18 points19 points  (2 children)

This is where he's wrong, and reveals that TRP is still not ready for the mainstream:

Girls find comfort in a deep, meaningful platonic relationship with men. It’s a solace from all the other guys out there just trying to get some.

No, sorry, that's called an ORBITER.

Women aren't capable of making friends the way men are. Each party in a male-female "friendship" are having a gender-specific experience that they then project onto the other person.

Remember this: your friends are MEN. Women are for fun and sex.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Exactly. Women want what they can't or shouldn't have. If she's friends with you, it's either because she's siphoning your energy and attention as an orbiter or you have some status or ego raising effect:

1 - You have a girlfriend (ego raising - you're hanging with her instead of your gf)


2 - You have some cool hobby/job/in (status raising - she looks cool by hanging out with you)

Most of the time women will play you as an orbiter for a small ego return. If you have status and higher value but no game, she'll put you on the back burner for a possible fling or affair, but since you do absolutely nothing for her in terms of tingles, you're an "if and when" prospect.

As in,

"If and when [insert random out of control circumstance here] happens, I'll sleep with him."

That circumstance could be a breakup on her end, an increase in your value somehow, the death of a close friend, a drunken night, or just her absolute boredom.

There is no "friend" though. It's always a game on her end. You never just hang out with a woman. Either you want her or she wants you. It will never be otherwise.

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1 - You have a girlfriend (ego raising - you're hanging with her instead of your gf)

That was insightful as heck. I've never seen that idea articulated before. ♂

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Here's why I think women almost always know EXACTLY what is happening with their admirers/friends/orbiters:

Women will tell you that they know when a guy likes them. They consciously drip feed attention to their orbiters. They know it's a one sided deal and they know why the guy puts up with it.

They present themselves as non-slutty low-n-count betabuxbait to their fans. If they truly believed they were friends, the guy would get all the inside info on who she's banging, the type of kinky casual sex she enjoys, her real n-count and so on. The stuff she shares with her close girlfriends. But he never gets that, because the girl knows the score precisely. She's more or less engineered the whole situation to get what she wants, and if he tries to get with her she's immediately ready to shame our little orbiting satellite with "oh I feel so betrayed that you could expect me to reciprocate your feelings!"

[–]privated1ck 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is good shit. I'm not a redpiller, far from it. Seriously beta here. But I had this experience: I met a girl at a Halloween party, and due to our costumes, we joked around and I got to know her. Strictly friendly at that point; I didn't get her number.

Fate had other plans, I ran into her a few days later and we hung out and visited mutual friends and went to parties together a bit. Then one night she came over and we watched some TV together. When she left, she went for a hug and I gave her a kiss on the lips and ground on her a little. She seemed surprised, but I treated it like no big deal and so did she. Here's the thing: I planted the thought in her mind and l made my intentions towards her clear: I was not just interested in the friend zone.

It took months, but she had a fight with her girlfriend (she is a lez-leaning bisexual, another reason why a relationship with me wasn't her top priority) and I was handy, and the upshot is I gave her a shoulder to cry on and she gave me some fuck. We were sexually involved for a few months, then her gf took her back and it was over.

So the takeaway is I let her know I was a sexual being and I was attracted to her, and she let that percolate around in her lizard brain for awhile and pulled the trigger when she needed some sexual relief.

If you want the relationship to progress, make your intentions clear. Nobody wants to feel guilt-tripped into sex, so risk your friendship at an early stage...if it's real, it will survive the shock, and it may blossom into something bigger. If you wait longer than that, tell her how you feel, but do it in a low-pressure way, and be prepared that 90% of the time it will be rejected.

[–]Glenbert 2 points3 points  (0 children)

See, when it comes to the friend zone, a lot of guys think that they’re the victims. And that’s just not true.

Great point. Yes, you are a victim, but only a victim of your own ignorance, willful or otherwise. One of the best moments of my 20s was when I realized, "Oh shit, this is all my fault. And that means I can fix it!"

It doesn't stop there, it carries into your more complicated relationships with women. Want to be monogamous and have children? Don't expect society to fill in the gaps for you, the social contract is long gone. State clearly that you want to be monogamous and have children.

[–]Patranus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Imagine how awkward it is for the girl to think your entire relationship is based on friendship...when in reality you want to fuck her.


She didn’t see it coming and who’s to blame?

While I 100% agree that a large portion of the blame lies on the chump who gets out into the friend-zone, it is unfathomable that any woman can't realize what one of their 'friends' really just wants to fuck them. Yes the guy is to blame but woman are also to blame for knowing it and keeping guys on the hook because they like the attention.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

so women are to blame for their nature? This is the victim mentality and in my experience to accomplish anything you have to take full responsibility for your actions. I'm not putting women on a pedestal but going around blaming them for manipulating guys to their advantage accomplishes nothing. Girls have a lot of sympathy but absolutely 0 empathy except for when it comes to their children. It's best to acknowledge this and work it to our advantage rather than blaming a handicapped children on not knowing how to walk.

[–]JayViceroy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And in this situation, just like in the barber shop story, you are the fucking asshole. You never made your intentions clear and then when they truly rise to the surface you're actually a dick. Because all that shit you said you were doing while just being friendly actually had hidden meaning and your hidden agenda has shown who you really are. A spineless twat looking to barter for sex. Girls don't want to barter for sex, they want you to be worth it on your own. Grow a pair and be the man that you should have been all along. The type that women find attractive. Nobody wins in the end from betas being beta.

[–]well-ok-then 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I have an attractive female friend. It's awesome. She's quite redpill and a great wingman. Has been instrumental in getting me laid a number of times. I wouldn't fuck her. I respect her husband, I respect our friendship and I respect her. And I would totally hate dating her hypergamous cheating butt (lol)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

are you serious how much does she cheat

[–]well-ok-then 0 points1 point  (1 child)

She's fully separated and has been since well before I met her over a year ago. None of the dudes she's met since I've known her have been cheating on her (soon to be ex) husband. I know, like, and respect him and wouldn't go out with a friend's ex. Women are like buses. Don't worry about this one, another will be along in 20 minutes. She cheated before they broke up and regrets it. Stupid biological awalt shit that she sees and owns and isn't proud of.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

get her on /r/TheRedPill for a roasting

[–]newbie3hunna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Come on she knows. She thinks a single and lonely guy is just hanging out with her to be friends? If so she is an idiot.

[–]WardlyHasted 5 points5 points [recovered]

I see what this guy is saying, but at the same time it just confirms alpha fucks/beta bucks. And it really doesn't present a single reason to be friends with a woman, unless you're getting sex.

Girls find comfort in a deep, meaningful platonic relationship with men. It’s a solace from all the other guys out there just trying to get some. And when you take that away from her, she feels like you’ve been lying to her the entire time.

I totally agree that men should be up front and very forward with their intentions when it comes to women. But at the same time, she has no problem stringing you along if she is getting benefits from your friendship. Simply put, men get a raw deal being friends with a woman. They don't need them for "friendship". Men bond with other men; they watch and play sports, shoot the shit and do guy things together. Men need women for the things they can't get from men -- sex and feminine energy.

And because she truly believed that, she confided in you. She felt comfortable opening up and spending a ridiculous amount of time with you. Staying up till 2am. Doing homework together. Watching your favorite TV shows.

A woman could easily do these things with a dude she's fucking. But we all know that the alpha who is fucking a chick isn't going to "do homework with her" or "stay up until 2am talking". Thus, the woman recruits orbiters/betas for these roles. She knows exactly what she is doing. She's already getting sex so she needs some emotional support to go with it.

As I said, this just confirms the existence of alpha fucks/beta bucks. The moral of the story is, yes, you can be friends with women, but only if you're getting what you want. You have to be honest with yourself -- if you want sex and she's not giving it, then you aren't getting what you want.

[–]1rporion 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I dont think that this is necessarily true in all cases.

In a way a beta orbiter cockblocks himself.

What needs does she actually have? Material provisioning, emotional support and her craving for the dick.

Now, her parents will probably pay for her material needs, her beta orbiter his her emotional safe haven, so she is free to pursue alpha cock.

If they say that "your friendship is more important than..." and that you "could easily find someone to fuck but a RELATIONSHIP...", they are not necessarily lying, that is what the world looks like to them.

Its a world where sex is indeed trivially easy to obtain and where the emotional beta orbiter support is important to her and wont be risked by sexualizing it.

[–]WardlyHasted 1 points1 points [recovered]

Fair point. I'm still uncertain how I feel about the idea that an orbiter cock blocks himself.

On one hand, if you want to fuck the girl, then act like you want to fuck her and be forward with your intentions. However, most men aren't aware that this is how things work. They believe the Disney fantasy/romantic-comedy trope about being the nice guy and being friendly, hoping one day that she'll come around.

The point I didn't necessarily make clear in my original post was that women know what they're doing when they treat orbiters the way they do. Considering they're the sex with greater "emotional intelligence", are better at covert communications and are better at understanding the subtext in what people say, I don't believe for a second that women don't pick up on the fact that most/all of their orbiters want to bang them. I know how strong the rationalization hamster can be, but it's really difficult for me to believe women can't see that these men lust for them.

Even if it's a only in their subconscious; at some level, these women have to know. A good test is to compare what your average orbiter would do for a male friend vs. the girl he wants to bang, and how these actions are reciprocated.

For example, your good male friend calls you at 2am asking for a ride home because he's stuck at some broad's house. You may be extremely reluctant to go -- but you know that if you do help him out, he will likely return the favour in the future -- or you may tell him, sorry man, find another way home.

Now if an orbiter's object of desire were to do the same thing, most of them would hop in their car and drive 45 minutes to pick her up drunk from the bar -- all for a thank you, even though they know this favour will never be reciprocated. If the orbiter brings it up in the future that she never does anything for him, she will get pissed off and scold him.

This kind of turned into a rant, but the main point is I don't believe women are so daft and innocent to not realize that their orbiters want to bang them and that they fully exploit this knowledge for their own gain.

[–]foldpak111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's all hilarious to know this stuff when you're the alpha. Most guys are lost beyond lost. They should fuckin know better too

[–]circlhat 2 points3 points  (7 children)

You have complete control over whether or not you find yourself in the friendzone, and all you have to do is be honest from the beginning.

Beta are honest(Well some of them), they do state their intention, they just don't stick with it. I told girls I was interested in sex all the time and still got friend zone, it wasn't only when I started working away and said fuck it to societies ,"Start out as friend and try to have a emotional connection first"

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Were you clear enough? If a beta says he want sex early enough, normally he gets it (so he's not a true beta) or he is seen as creepy and cant really even be friends any more.

[–]circlhat 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Even when I'm red pill I don't say, "I want to sticky my dick in you", but I let her know I want sex and I make a move, the problem was I would ask first

"Can I kiss you?"

Killed her tingles , I never would make a move without asking first which just made things awkward. The problem was the girl wouldn't dump me, she would lead me on and ask me to take her to dinners,

my parents supported this and told me that it takes time to get to know someone(Which she also said). After a while they would just cheat or find some other guy.

It wasn't until I demanded sex and if I try to kiss and she pulls away , I now walk away.

Ironically this is all the game I needed to learn, once I started demanding instead of asking , I got pussy

[–]FatStig 2 points2 points [recovered]

Even when I'm red pill I don't say, "I want to sticky my dick in you"

This works pretty well online.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

That's why /r/gonewild commenters get laid so much.

[–]FatStig -1 points-1 points [recovered]

IIf they're not getting laid it's because they are this guy.

[–]user_none 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fucking hell, tag that with NSFW. /r/eyebleach

[–]kevkos 1 point2 points  (10 children)

What you say is true BUT....

Women do contribute to the problem.

Example: If you went out with a girl who you really liked and had a great time with, but she wouldn't tongue kiss you at the end of the date, would you immediately put her in the friend zone and assume she wasn't into you?

I've had that experience many times, and on the 2nd date they completely open up sexually. I would have missed out had I said "She must not be interested!"

But women do the equivalent of this, mistakenly, all the time. "He didn't kiss me therefore he must just want friendship and not sex."

It doesn't pass the logic test. Logic says that if you meet a girl, show interest over text, take her out, talk to her for a few hours, etc. that you are INTERESTED.

But some women will say "He's not interested" if a kiss doesn't happen.

Yes I know the responses "Don't be a beta pussy and be physical with her immediately!"

I'm not making excuses for the guys.

Just saying that this friendzone issue is not 100% created by men.

Women have a lot to do with it too, with having no ability to consider that some guys MIGHT just be moving slower than others.

Again, not saying it's RIGHT that some guys wuss out or don't get physical early, but by reasonable and logical standards, women have to be able to comprehend the various ways men may express interest too.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (9 children)

logical standards are irrelevant to female behavior. we arent trying to change their nature, just understand and benefit from it

totally plugged in comment

[–]kevkos 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Uhhh...nope. OP claimed that friendzone is 100% mens' fault. If you read my comment I was not arguing that it is 100% women's fault, but instead that they contribute to the nonsense.

To say that it's ONLY the fault of the guy is to make believe women are robots and can't control their behavior.

That's what I would call "plugged in".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

the belief that women arent in conscious control of their sexual strategies is pretty central to this sub and evopsych in general

[–]kevkos 0 points1 point  (5 children)

That has nothing to do with my point.

Again, friendzone is not 100% men's fault.

I outlined why this is in my post above. Where do you disagree?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

the main point

i was responding to this earlier:

To say that it's ONLY the fault of the guy is to make believe women are robots and can't control their behavior.

[–]kevkos 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Interesting that you believe women are out of control robots. I don't think that's what is "central to this sub".

We all have things that are hard wired. We are hard wired to urinate when we get the urge to. But most of us can find our way to a toilet and not just pee where we are standing.

That doesn't mean women have zero responsibility for idiotic friendzoning.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

ultimately this isnt a productive argument. we can't control the behavior of others. it's not useful to blame things we cant control for our problems

[–]kevkos -1 points0 points  (1 child)

We definitely can't control the behavior of others, but we can be more selective about who we date and not just say it's ALL this way, or ALL that way, i.e all mens fault for this, all women's fault for that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

bullshit, now you're disagreeing with the main premise of this sub, that's what it's come down to. AWALT!

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 1 point2 points  (2 children)

"Friending your way into a relationship" is a good example of how to fail/succeed slowly. Using this method, how many months/years will it take you to find out whether she's into you or not? An important point made by OP is that this method is also very ineffective and you'll only succeed if you're very lucky, so you're likely to be setting yourself up for a very slow failure - a slow-motion Hail Mary pass.

Stating your intentions up front and escalating quickly is an example of failing/succeeding quickly. You'll find out within minutes/hours whether she is into you, rather than months/years.

Note that the slow failure is often the result of putting the woman on a pedestal. Once you take her off the pedestal, you'll realize that there are thousands of women out there for you to chat up, so you'd better use the most efficient method possible.

This is very much in line with an old submission I made: A lesson from the startup world: "Fail fast, fail cheap, fail often"

[–]inaddictaquate 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Patrice O'Neal talks about trying to "friendship your way to pussy" in his infamous "time hoe" clip. Very important. There is no use wasting time.

[–]lLoveLamp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We need more of these post. Its cool we're trying to be better people and understand women's psychology but we also need to see from their point of view. Antagonizing them and repeating that ''bitches be crazy'' will not help your case.

It's like when we say that men use overt communication while women use covert communication. It's easy to assume our way of sharing our intentions is better because it's direct, but both ways are equal, and we must understand that.

[–]QuwrofWrlccywrlir 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm really confused. I have had bad luck expressing my interest to girls, it becomes awkward. Maybe it is caused by my low SMV or maybe it's not a socially acceptable thing to do from where I am. And I hear a lot in the seduction community that being direct is not the way to go, like in this thread: https://archive.today/ZOdsJ So, if I'm open about my intentions it is awkward, and if I'm not direct, I'm friendzoned... and I'm not that confident to go clubbing and push girls to have sex with me, I'm the introverted type... BTW, I meet most of the girls in friendly environments, where sex or relationships is almost never discussed.

[–]erniesmoove[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you are awkward then you need to work on your game skills and confidence (body language, tonality, humor, etc). Thats it. Its still better to be awkward, as you say, than to be a pussy ass orbiter wasting time, money and emotions in a girl that wont give you what you want.

[–]agumonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah but that's assuming you just met her. What happens when things evolve ?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This hits home right now. I spent a good part of this last year hoping things could be like a movie. Should have been listening to the truth the whole time.

Does anyone have any advice about repairing a friendship after dumbass me pulled this "I'm in love with you" stunt? I really would hate to have to cut ties completely with this girl.

[–]erniesmoove[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hate it then. Women will mostly drain your resources, even more so now that she knows you got the feels for her. Maybe you will end up fixing her car, plugging her tv, being an emotional tampon, picking her up... for what? you aint gonna get pussy, never. Decide upon that.

[–]SwissPablo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Think about all the time you just saved.

It's a great way to think of it. Throwing all that time at her like it was nothing at all. What a waste. Everyone here remembers what Patrice said, so I don't need to say it again.

[–]confuseacatlmtd 1 points1 points [recovered]

To the guys who are stuck in this situation right now, it might be better to tell her that you have just developed feelings for her recently. That it just snuck up on you and you didn't expect it. Maybe even tell her you understand if she wants to take a break from hanging out. That way, she may not feel betrayed, but flattered.

[–]JayViceroy 4 points5 points  (5 children)

No. To the guys in this situation, you withdraw and find another girl. There is no one girl that's perfect for you and there is no benefit in keeping around a woman that has no sexual interest in you. Move along young buck. Your cock and balls have no value to this female.

[–]confuseacatlmtd 1 points1 points [recovered]

I think if ur tuff enough u may as well try. Just my opinion though, I doubt it will work.

[–]JayViceroy 0 points1 point  (3 children)

If you're tough enough, you wouldn't be getting dragged around by some female. I haven't been friend zoned by a female in years. Instead, I have female orbiters lined up around the block. My main plate currently knows I am talking to other girls, yet would rather be my side girl than not have me at all. My situation may be anecdotal but I doubt it.

[–]confuseacatlmtd 1 points1 points [recovered]

I wasn't talking about you man. I'm saying if there is a guy who wants the friend zone thing to end one way or another, because it's painful to be around the girl, he may as well go for it. It probably won't end well but at least he tried and it's a good lesson anyways. I'm not saying not to have abundance mentality or anything. I'm saying might as well hit on her if you're gonna unfriend her anyways.

[–]JayViceroy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Once again I have to disagree. I believe that if you want to succeed with women have to understand power dynamics. In a friendzone situation you've already lost. You need to begin a new chapter in your life. One way to begin this mentality is walking away when you're not winning. It's like trying to keep hitting on the girl at the bar when she's already not feeling you. Learn abundance mentality and practice the strongest move you can make. Walking away.

[–]inaddictaquate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am new to swallowing the pill, so grain of salt and all that.

In the past three weeks, I've been able to plate three women, and all of them asked my intentions within the first or second meeting. I straight up told them, "good conversation, having fun, and getting laid." They all appreciated my honesty, and they were fine hanging out and doing the deed afterwards. Now, they know what I want, and there are no issues. Being direct may seem douchey, but it isn't at all. Time is everyone's most valuable resource, and honesty will save you time.

[–]Endorsed ContributorTheRedPilsner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the book Models, Mark Manson stated that the biggest reason that guys get friendzoned is that they aren't clear with their intentions and they don't escalate physically. I think the exact wording he used was "A man who doesn't act on his sexual urges is unconfident, and therefore unattractive."

[–]the99percent1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I state my intentions from the get go.. The way I touch her, unafraid to move in for a kiss within the first few minutes, always escalating, always playfully flirting and teasing her.

When you operate from this mindset, you quickly weed out the girls who are into you vs the girls who aren't.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You need make your intentions clear from the start! Sometimes girls just want friendship, and you have to respect that by being upfront with her so that she can make the decision.

while I agree with that, You might want to make your intention clear by your actions, not words.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a great post. This is the kind of material that gets people here out of the anger phase.

[–]Yozki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you serious? Women are completely aware of what they're doing to their orbiters.
But of course if you state your intentions right away, she's not going to get the option of doing it, she'll have to make a decision which is good for everyone involved.

[–]kevkos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Misleading. Let's say you have a date with a girl. Let's say you are wanting an open relationship. Yet, she's never even considered such a thing, like most women. If you lead off with "I'm about open relationships", she's outta there, 99/100 times. However, if you ease her into it, it's possible to have your cake and eat it too.

[–]notrustled 0 points1 point  (0 children)

fucking golden. one might argue about women totally knowing what they're doing, but it's not about them - it's about us. a should be basic advice about how not to beat around the bush - today it's the survival of the swiftest. and if we're talking about Hollywood, here's a rare positive exception when it comes to characters: Tony Montana. he never fucked around and got what he wanted (except for what happened to him in the end). not that I recommend that exact lifestyle and behavior in all situations...it's his blunt honesty and ballsiness what I totally admire.

what I missed from the post was the mentioning of the importance of nonverbal/verbal communication. nonverbal should be the very first thing to do and then (or even better, at the same time) should come the talking IMO. do the nonverbal without hesitating, it should come like it's natural...without nv it's just gonna be uneasy and dishonest and it's all set up for failure. but the focus point was not on that so that's it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I'm not sure how to make my intentions clear tbh. How do you guys do it without getting labeled a predator by feminists?

[–]cluelessbeats 1 points1 points [recovered]

i think being labeled a predator - or anything - by feminists isn't something you should worry about

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Little late for that unfortunately. :p

[–]Luckyluke23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wow great post man ( even though kong wrote it)

i think we all have that one girl somewhere locked in the closet in a long list of girls.

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Simple Pickup writes overly PC emails to gain a wider audience. Women dont need male friends as some deep solace from men trying to date her, they want their orbiters for the free attention.

Yeah, the guy is to blame for being afraid to show his own sexuality, but the article suggests sometimes men will genuinely want to be a girl's orbiter bitch. How often do you see a troll with an orbiter far above her SMV? It just doesn't happen.

[–]pnt9 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So I have a legitimate inquiry here. There has been a couple of times when I've been direct about my attraction to a couple of girls, and their response: "I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable with that. I don't know you at all."

So what is it? Would it be "red pill" enough to hang around the girl for a while (not as a friend) in order to establish rapport and build some value, and then make a move? This whole timing thing has proven to be my biggest difficulty in approaching women...

[–]erniesmoove[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thats called a rejection. Rejection is part of the game. Move on. Practice your game. Never become and orbiter, NEVER.

[–]gadelat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I see this advice a lot, but it doesn't consider situation when you are not interested initially, but you develop feelings as you get to know her more. I think this is majority of cases. You don't just fall in love immediately when you meet her.

[–]erniesmoove[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is not about love, its about attraction. When you meet her and you are attracted to her (AKA: want to tap that ass) but you dont make your intentions clear you are lying to her and yourself. You dont get inlove with a girl you are not attracted.

[–]erniesmoove[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with most of you, probably most girls know consciously or subconsciously that you want to get your dick wet. But this is not about freeing them from responsibility, it’s about taking responsibility when you don’t get your intentions clear, and if you have made them clear then it’s your choice to stay (and be a pussy) or grab your balls and leave.

Ranting about how these bitches know in some devilish way what your plan is and still manipulate you is what keeps the anger alive. Break free from that manipulation then, grow some balls, be honest with her and yourself. Period.

[–]BlaiseDB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you enjoy her company for its own sake then have fun, don't worry about getting laid and - in zen fashion - you may very well end up getting laid anyways. The same applies to helping out or giving gifts.

Doing favours, buying presents and such with some expectation of reciprocation in the form of sex is daft. Do it unconditionally or not at all.

[–]Postboned 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that the better analogy would have been that he asked for his head to be shaved first, because hair that is trimmed can still be shaved off.

[–]PlebDestroyer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tell kong I said not to be so naive. These women know consciously that the beta male is attracted to them; but they also know (consciously/subconsciously) that they can net another orbiter/time ho.

Everything else is spot on though.

[–]Complecs 0 points1 point  (4 children)

The first part of this reads like you're implying that women dont know they are doing this. Most of these women aren't that stupid. They know you want to fuck them, they're using you for the attention, for the gifts, for the free dependability of some muscle. The bottom of this post about being upfront about your intentions is spot on, but don't act like the girl is going to be surprised that all those times you sent her goodnight texts and held her while she was crying after she got pumped and dumped by chad thundercock that you actually wanted to fuck her.

The difference here is that when you make your intentions known, it shows that you aren't a fucking pussy. If you are too weak to show that, then of course when you turn 180 degrees and try to 'seduce her' or whatever the fuck by telling you that you love her or want to be fuck buddies shes gonna be repulsed and 'feel cheated'. It's creepy to be weak/shy and sexual, because weak is not sexy, its gross. Strong and sexual is acceptable because strong is sexy, masculinity is sexy, being comfortable being your sexual self is sexy, thats confidence, and confidence is sexy.

It's all about being congruent(thanks owen), if you're faking it or holding something back, women can smell that shit from a mile away. It's written all over you in subtle gestures, expressions, and in the words you say and how you say them.

But to even get to the point where she would be repulsed or feel cheated by in advance from you is failure in itself. She knows if she wants to fuck you or not already, you lay the groundwork in the beginning of your 'relationship' and she puts you into a category of fuck or dont fuck, and you'll know if she wants to fuck. Funny thing about women, if a strong man takes the lead on something they tend to follow. If you are open about your intentions from the get go, there will be no confusion about what she wants.

[–]JayViceroy -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Yes, you can try and blame it on her all you want, but the man should always take responsibility. It's your fucking fault. That's how it is. As the stronger gender you are responsible for your outcome. And when you are always looking for someone else to blame you never improve. If you're in the friendzone with a girl it's your fault, not hers. She doesn't have the balls to cut you off, because that will make her feel bad. Women are slaves to their emotions. And the last place any man should be is the first mate to a captain that's a slave to their emotions.

[–]Complecs 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Theres no reason to even look for blame here. You're still looking for right and wrong, it's neither right, nor wrong, it just is. AWALT, they will all do this given the opportunity, it's in their best interests to string a man along, to put him into the friendzone. She has virtually nothing to lose and so much to gain from her 'friendzoned orbiters'.

And sure, if a man is socially awkward and out of shape which in turn is creepy, it is his fault, but it's hard to place 'blame' on somebody who really doesn't know better. If you're raised to believe thats the way its supposed to be, and you're trying your hardest to be that man, who the hell can blame the guy? Its unfortunate, but again, thats just the way it is right now.

[–]JayViceroy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

My point is to stop men from rationalizing that it's not their fault for being in the friendzone. "This girl is a bitch she put me in the friendzone!" No son, you are a bitch and deserved it. My point is the only person that can put you there or keep you out is you. I'm talking from a red pill perspective because that's where we are right now; in this sub. The worthless betas out there orbiting all my plates... This message isn't for them. This message is for the men on this forum.

[–]kevkos -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The problem lies on both sides, no question.

[–]Mihawk01 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

You are missing one point here.

If the girl is at least 6.5 out of 10, any guy would gladly fuck her, and not really be invested in friendship, but more into fucking her.

Girls and boys shouldn't even be friends as such, we are made to fuck each other, not have friendly banter. Leave that stuff for guys.

[–]Transmigratory -1 points0 points  (0 children)

True. Beta hamster: she is in the wrong because I didn't make my intentions clear, or at the very least gave strong signals.

[–]CapnDancyPants -1 points0 points  (3 children)

But stating your intentions initially is rape according to modern western women.

[–]JayViceroy 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Only if you're a low value man. If Channing Tatum walks up to them with his shirt off and says he wants to touch her pussy. She's dripping before she can even choke up a yes.

[–]CapnDancyPants 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah. Most men are low value. Therefore rape. You don't define rules by their exceptions. That's why we live by AWALT

[–]JayViceroy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't focus on other guys. Focus on comments that follow TRP lifestyle. If you think being sexual in front of a girl is rape, she thinks it's rape. If she's just a trapeze artist in your circus then it's far from being rape. Bring her into your frame, don't walk around thinking all girls are feminists and hate men. That's a toxic mindset.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Patrice O'neal at a good bit about this on the Black Phillips show. He was basically saying that the reason why betas come off as creepy when they attempt to meet girls is because they're being dishonest.

  • The Alphas make it clear what their intentions are from the beginning.
  • Betas are dishonest and veil their true intentions; but really... their cocks are sitting in the Captain Kirk chair and making all the decisions.

[–]fififi89 -4 points-3 points  (7 children)

The article makes it too simple. You have to hide your intentions at the very beginning (maybe one or two dates), to give her the impression you desire her beyond her physical appearance (true or not).

Friendzoned guys simply continue it beyond initial dates and can't show their sexual desire when it is time to.

Moreover women are deprecable if they know about the sentiment of the boy (and almost always is the case) and exploit it to make him her personal taxy driver or anything like that.

[–]JayViceroy 2 points3 points  (4 children)

This is the worst piece of advice I've ever heard. Never hide your intentions. Never hide your sexuality. You should be sexual in nature in your first interaction. They should know and feel immediately that you could fuck them at any moment. Girls love that shit. Girls love the guy that can be confident enough to slip in every sexual innuendo possible. Don't hide your intentions. Don't be asexual. You're a man with a cock. Act as such.

[–]fififi89 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Not hiding my intentions for me means:

"Hi, let's fuck in the bathroom" (It doesn't work)

Any word more than this is hiding my intentions at some degree. I agree: you don't have to hide too much your intentions, but you have to hide them too less either. There is a certain balance.

[–]JayViceroy 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That's not showing your intentions. Your intentions are "I am a sexual being and should be treated as such." And believe it or not, saying lets go fuck in the bathroom can work with timing and being in the right environment with the right girl. I won't go into that, but saying that as an opener is showing that you're just a weird, creepy dude that doesn't understand how women communicate.

Women communicate by subtleties. They communicate by body language and emotion. So the words you say elicit emotions. That's why when you argue with a girl she doesn't hear the words you say, she just remembers how you make her feel. Telling dirty stories and slipping in sexual innuendos with a strong confident demeanor communicates to her that you are a sexual being worthy of sex. That's showing your intentions. She is not a man, therefore you cannot communicate your intentions with her like a man. Stop being creepy and start being charming. The intentions are the same, but the level of communication mastery is different.

[–]fififi89 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So you have to communicate your intentions in a way that is innatural for a male. That's what I am saying.

So the advice "show your intention" is uncomplete. The advice is "show your intention in the right manner" and, I add, with the right timing.

[–]JayViceroy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think you understand the definition of intention.

[–]well-ok-then 1 point2 points  (1 child)

There's a gap between being "open about your intentions" and saying "I want to fuck your mouth!!" Looking a chick in the eye, leaning in for a kiss, touching her arm or leg while talking, etc etc can be clear ... And can be awkward or painful and may take practice.

[–]fififi89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree. There is a time and a way to show your intentions.

Many guys wait too much, the advice in the mail is good for them. But there are also guys who show them too much, too soon and not in the correct way. They sometimes get a kiss and buyer remorse the day after.