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LTRRise to the calling – fathers and husbands must be the patriarch (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by TW_RPAwake

Today the world came tumbling down around me and my family. Ill do my best to summarize, but it was an epically-stressful day.

We awoke to our 14YO son informing us that her older sister was not in her room and her car was gone. Apparently our older daughter (21) decided to sneak out after going we went to sleep last night. We called and texted all morning to no avail. Around noon we were about to transition over to calling hospitals and the police. She had never done anything like this before, and had spent the weekend recuperating from an illness; so we were all the more blindsided to learn that she had snuck out. So shortly afternoon she communicated back that she was safe and had decided to spend the night at the house of someone she started dating recently. We were disappointed in her actions, but relived for her safety.

I too had a pretty rough day at work too. It goes without saying how my morning went, but the job pressures are higher than ever lately so I needed to stay on my “A” game all the same. In candor, the boss doesn’t care about issues in our home life; producing is what counts. Deadlines abound, petulant co-workers, and arrogant partner teams. Furthermore, at the last minute before this went down my rental texted me to say that the well was out of commission. By all measures I should have blown my cork.

So this evening our son decided to turn on the worst case of adolescent anger we ever saw. On the way home my wife called in tears to tell me how verbally brutal he was toward her; he went on a tirade about wanting off the football team and it was “all her fault” that he had to play. My wife is a pretty strong woman but he really tore her down with his rebellion. So she it at Wit’s end, and with that context I come to the meat of this post –

She didn’t know what to do. I replied “Remember the Wolf in Pulp Fiction?” She replies “Yes”. I add.. “Don’t worry - - I got this”. No emotion, pure calm, I_Got_This. With that, I stopped by the house on my way to the football field. After a few calm but sharp words to my daughter, I left to handle my son. When practice ended, I met him on the field in front of his coaches and friends. My words were calm and direct – “Take off your gear and hand it to the Head Coach. Tell him that you quit. Then go tell all of your team mates that you quit because you hate the game and your mom made you play. Then tell that to your defensive coach (who was like an uncle to him for the last 7 years) that you quit too.” He protested. I got inches from him and stated “This is what you wanted, be careful what you wish for because sometimes you will get it”. He begged me to relent. I calmly informed him that he was to NEVER abuse his mom like that again. He agreed with the utmost sincerity.
We got home, and I remained calm toward my daughter. After a really silent dinner, I told her to look me in the eye; which she tearfully did. I calmly explained that she could be an adult and accountable to herself in her own place, but if she still wants to put her boots under my dinner table then it comes with my rules. The next time it happens I’ll ask her to leave. My tone was solemn and firm.
My son hugged his mom with the most sincere apology. He came back down from bed to hug her again later; along with me. My daughter also owned up to her actions and the night ended in compassion.

I’m sharing the story with this community for two reasons –

  1. A year ago I would have threatened, screamed, grounded, cursed, and brought down emotional “wrath” to the situation. Instead, I was stoic, firm, and loving. My wife pulled me away and sobbed in my arms. She thanked me for taking things on which she had nothing more to give.

  2. Being the “Patriarch” is NOT a derogatory state as the Politically Correct would have us believe; the term represents the highest calling for a father and a husband. I didn’t know that my Red Pill journey was preparing for anything more than asserting myself as a Man. In fact, the lessons from this community helped me be a better father and husband.

I’m typing this as my son soundly sleeps and my wife and daughter are relaxing and reconnecting. The house is quiet.

Thanks TRP.

EDIT 1 - Context around the situation with our 21YO daughter

She was sick all weekend with swollen tonsils. Literally to the point we were buying applesauce and popcicles, and chicken broth to keep her nourished. Sunday night she skipped dinner curled up on the couch watching TV and recuperating. After saying goodnight, she snuck out. The next morning we texted and called her, and could tell that her phone was on. She was not responding. By noon she was still unresponsive. The entire experience is out of character for her. It was a discipline issue that she was out until morning, but by noon our concerns for her safety were legitimate.

As for house rules, our house "shuts down" at 10:30 on a weeknight and 12:30 on a weekend. She has ample latitude to go past these times by talking with us. I set the expectation that she can be a "full adult" and have no accountability to us; no more than I have to my father. However that requires full ownership of adult responsibilities; your own place, your own car insurance, your own food, your own cell phone plan, pay your own college bills, etc. While she is chronologically 21, she is in college depending on us. She still not fully an adult in the responsibility sense. She cannot have full adult freedoms without full adult responsibilities.


[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 152 points153 points  (27 children)

Being the “Patriarch” is NOT a derogatory state as the Politically Correct would have us believe; the term represents the highest calling for a father and a husband.

This is why I haven't given up on marriage and children for my own future. The leadership you provide makes everyone better for it. It keeps the whole group functional. Without a patriarch a family is just a crowd.

[–]TW_RPAwake[S] 42 points43 points  (1 child)

A surprising revelation: Her friends notice the change in me and the corresponding happiness in her. Rather than being aghast by the political incorrectness of our Captain / 1st Mate dynamic, they constantly ask her "how do I get my husband to be more like him?"

In my wife's words, she is more happy and more in love than ever before. Her BP father took her aside to express his concern about our new dynamic and she was quick to tell him that she never knew she could feel so safe. I asked her about the word "safe" when she relayed the story to me. She elaborated that she felt like we could handle any external hardship or obstacle and that brought her a sense of safety for her world.

While not 100% abandoned, she now rejects nearly everything she learned about the "equalism" narrative and more importantly the feminine primacy demonstrated by her mom toward her father. It is repugnant; she will constantly comment to me how angry she gets when witnessing her mother's actions.

[–][deleted] 37 points37 points

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[–]Endorsed ContributorObio1 55 points56 points  (12 children)

There was once a time when it involved a hot 18 year old girl who would cook, clean and do the housework.

Now it very likely involves a 30+ year old feminist who spent her 20's fucking alphas... is no longer attractive... has a fat ass and flappy tits... has a higher degree (and the debt to show for it)... has a bizarrely inflated sense of expectations and has zero work ethic. She might even be one of those "cool chicks" with a couple of nasty faded tattoos, and a smoking habit. She has very likely fucked 100's of guys.

She's expecting you to pay for everything, and if things don't work out, she still feels entitled to half your wealth, and your lifelong support.

This is what's on the menu. And this is why most real men have left the restaurant.

The rewards for being a "patriarch" are long gone. Society no longer respects patriarchs. As you noted, it's now a bad word.

The lesson we should teach them is to stay single and raise the middle finger to this thing they call "marriage".

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 10 points11 points  (11 children)

was once a time when it involved a hot 18 year old girl who would cook, clean and do the housework.

Date without marriage - takes a while to find 'em, but they're there. Nobody's dumb enough to marry anymore.

If a woman is not willing to follow you in your decision to have a family without marrying, that about sums it up.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 7 points8 points  (4 children)

You plan to use technology to guard your paternity after refusing to use common sense to guard your prosperity?

What's your game plan if that kid isn't yours, get divorce raped? Very few states still levy penalties for infidelity.

[–]Philhelm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Obviously, the bastard abomination must immediately be tossed from the Cliff of Woe, followed by the perfidious wife's head to be mounted on a pike.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You can do all that only to stand a >50% divorce chance, why'd you marry in the first place? Your idea? Or were you coerced into it? Did you do it because it "was the thing to do"? Do you still think marriage was a good idea?

There's a ton of recently wed guys just like you who think they are special, their wife is special and their marriage is special, even here on TRP. They think they're different. You know how many of those make it for over a decade?

Once a woman has a child, her life is about her life and the kid. If her provision and living standards increase more by divorcing you than staying with you, she will do so in a heart beat with no regard for, or even knowledge of, the effect growing up without a father will have on her child. Modern laws incentivize divorce and force you to provide.

Instead, you're gambling 18 years of slavery plus half your shit for nothing. Even if it works out for you - which I sincerely hope it does - it was a stupid fucking choice: you could've had the family you envision without marriage by looking for a woman who was willing to follow your lead 100% on your terms. But for whatever reason, you didn't.

For the record, it's all the rage these days - to divorce 3-5 years after having a child with someone is top payout.

Being a father and patriarch is something I, and any sane man I think, respect and often strive to be.

Mixing "husband" in there when Marriage 2.0 is the opposite of a traditional marriage is a sick joke.

[–]I_AMA_Naughty_Boy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Did you mean 'without a DNA test'?

[–]PlebDestroyer -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Date without marriage

Why would I invest so much in something that very likely will yield little to no return?

Sounds like spinning plates till you're too old to do so is a better plan.

They're there but what are the odds that you're gonna find them.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why would I invest so much in something that very likely will yield little to no return?

If family is your definition of little to no return, spin away. Allow me to re-quote the post you just replied to:

follow you in your decision to have a family without marrying

Furthermore, about this:

They're there but what are the odds that you're gonna find them.

For someone spouting self-defeatist garbage like that? Zero. For everyone else? Low but worth the search unless you like gambling 18 years of slavery and half your shit for something you could've gotten without risking Marriage 2.0

[–]Jamtastic1 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I would argue that OP's example shows that we can recapture the original concept of marriage. It's by being BP that we allow ourselves to live in horrible circumstances. Be the change you want to see.

[–]Imrockbottom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree. I think for a system to be successful, it has to account for women's tendency for hypergamy. Marriage has only managed to restrain it for a brief period of time before we see the cultural trends were dealing with now, and they dealt with before the fall of Rome. Why do we want to go for round three? Why are we convinced it will work this time, for real? What's the definition of insanity again?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children)

without the hymen the diamond is a liability

[–]RPRob1 2 points2 points [recovered]

I've actually been able to convince a few women, using their vanity, to forgo the gold ring with a diamond by showing them what happens when it gets heated or they get into a car accident what will happen to their fingers. Sold them on tungsten carbide and smaller diamonds if not synthetic jewels.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbicepsblastingstud 12 points13 points  (3 children)

I've actually been able to convince a few women

So, you've either been engaged several times or you like to walk around convincing women not to go for diamond engagement rings.

Which is it?

[–]zbednorz 0 points1 point  (1 child)

More likely the conversation of rings came up with friends and he brought up the point

[–]johngalt1234 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is what a healthy patriarchy looks like. Feminists may point to Islam as an example of oppressive patriarchy but for the rest of us we bear witness to the gold standard of patriarchy. One demonstrated in the countless families around the world, a strong and benevolent head of the family using his powers for the prosperity of those he leads.

A social system that builds law,order and civilization: http://www.fisheaters.com/garbagegeneration.html

[–]Endorsed Contributornyrp 19 points20 points  (2 children)

This is like an episode of Father Knows Best.

Kids today don't even know that show. It's probably banned from reruns for being so patriarchal.

[–]UGoBoom 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Where can young ones like me watch it?

[–]Endorsed Contributornyrp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

[–]rpscrote 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Fantastic post.

I would note an important additional lesson:

You must take action even when you are giving a verbal rebuke. Here, you arrived at your son's football field. You chose the battlefield where you would get maximum impact and things were most real. Your wife likely failed because your son got to attack when the poignancy of real life was less immediate due to the location of the argument (i.e. at home). Basically, you made it real and made him accept reality. This took the planning and actively going out to the field instead of just yelling at him when he got home. Always try to choose the battlefield.

[–]1oldredder 46 points47 points  (1 child)

Nobody fucks with the wolf. This is how it's done.

Being truly red pill is not just PUA game or lifting, it's having the real life experience of being a father who keeps his household in line and for all their good.

That's one thing I can never contribute on - I've got years, got experience but no children. I've seen friends who are parents do this but they're not my stories to share.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

really great post. thanks for sharing

[–]makethemwant 30 points31 points  (8 children)

Well done. There's a reason we men are biologically stoic. It's part of the role we play societally. This feminist bullshit that we are suppressing our emotions and that we need to open up to them leads to non-men who they find sexually repulsive and who can't hold a family together. Why do they try to tear-down the model of a man they crave and need?

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (6 children)

because if the man can be torn down then he's not the man. they must check at least twice a month

[–]Complimentary_Logic4[🍰] 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Reinforces the whole "feminism is just another shit test" theory

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It's amazing how a psychological cultural shift so large and powerful was birthed after two major world wars where men fought hard and were slaughtered. Makes me wonder if the men who had life on easy mode from the Boomer era were/are responsible for this cultural shift in women. Women began working after WW2 in droves, men dropped the ball as women realized they could make as much as men. Now women must shit test men through feminism to see which man is worth a damn.

[–]Complimentary_Logic4[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't blame any particular generation for the shit show that is modern feminism; at its core, it is simply a large-scale cry for attention. 100 years ago, men and women alike would not have given it the time of day. The only "feminism" they dealt with was a concerted effort to give women the right to vote. Over the past century, a toxic sense of entitlement in both men and women has continuously compounded, ultimately resulting in today's welfare state. If I had to place the blame on anyone, it would be on FDR and the radically socialist policies that he and his puppet congress implemented. Nothing cultivates a sense of entitlement like the knowledge that you can always put your palm out and receive a livable salary simply for existing. Giving people (particularly women, as they make up the majority of welfare recipients) a safety net of this magnitude undoubtedly paved the way for women to abandon the thousands-years old tradition of strictly monogamous partnerships between men and women. Men needed women to care for their children, women needed men to provide for them. Today, women have the government to provide for them prior to marriage and lopsided divorce laws to ensure that their ex-husband provides for them after. Throw in a few riot-inciting phrases like "the war on women," and you have modern feminism.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I get shit tested by my LTR every 2 weeks like clockwork. It usually ends with laying pipe, until I fail enough tests and she bounces faster than a Pixar lamp.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find that women are very hard to manage because they can't manage their own emotions. Then they refuse to see how their hormonal fluctuations are throwing us off. They want sympathy, then they want a punching bag, then more sympathy. They do not care for our well being as they go through these hormonal fluctuations, it's inherent in their biology.

[–]2johnnight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Men should be stoic, but rarely are.

  • stoic
  • angry
  • weepy

Most men would get angry. Most women would get weepy and use kind of non-evil emotional blackmail (How could you do this to your mother? We were so worried. etc.). Feminized men would get weepy, too, which is why they are sexually disgusting.

Men should be stoic. I don't know what women should be.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I’m sharing the story with this community for two reasons –

  1. A year ago I would have threatened, screamed, grounded, cursed, and brought down emotional “wrath” to the situation. Instead, I was stoic, firm, and loving. My wife pulled me away and sobbed in my arms. She thanked me for taking things on which she had nothing more to give.

  2. Being the “Patriarch” is NOT a derogatory state as the Politically Correct would have us believe; the term represents the highest calling for a father and a husband. I didn’t know that my Red Pill journey was preparing for anything more than asserting myself as a Man. In fact, the lessons from this community helped me be a better father and husband.

♂ Excellent stuff. All men should read this thread before getting uproarious over LTR life events like those described in the OPs post. Ultimately it all boils down to good old fashioned frame control.

[–]Boss_Monkey 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This is what it is all about. I had no urge toward the redpill until my sons were born. Yes the pill is good for confidence, but that all has to lead toward something greater. patriarchy is well hid, they will never kill it.

[–]mykonos_rm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How you handled your son was awesome. I will make a mental note should I ever find myself in a similar situation in the future.

[–]dabrah1 6 points7 points  (6 children)

I'm 24. If I get married, thats the exact dynamic I want to follow. I have been going out with my current girlfriend for 5 years now, and basically do the same thing. I don't let her nag me about anything, I tell her what were doing, and when were doing it (cleaning the apartment, grocery shopping etc), and I ignore her if she starts commenting about a girl talking to me or texting me. If we end up getting married I hope I can follow in your footsteps somewhat lol.

[–]My_Dog_Jax 1 point2 points  (5 children)

You're going to get married to a girl you met when you were nineteen? Good luck man I hope that works out.

[–]dabrah1 7 points8 points  (4 children)

That's actually the smart thing to do , get the girl before she has the chance to hop onto the CC. She's extremely loyal to me , making bank, and only had sex with one other guy, which I can confirm 100 %. Thanks for offering me good luck , don't think I'll need it though.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

21 year old still living under your roof. Sounds like a real great life.

[–]cascadecombo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Kept calm and carried on. Whether this is true or not this is an amazing example of being the man of your house.

[–]ankit0912 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I could just whine here and say that "Sigh! Wish my father were the same". However, I buried my childhood long ago. You sir are now my model on how I will run my future family. You deserve a standing ovation. I request the mods to put this on the sidebar. This example will convince new people here that TRP is real.

[–]Wassauce_Farooq 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I have this post saved but it might get lost in my archives.

I also request the mods to side bar this, or sticky it somewhere, and to the man that compiled the TRP e-book, I request you to add this into your guide.

[–]TW_RPAwake[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the support. This is my 1st sticky post. :-)

[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a fantastic practical example of TRP concepts applied in a real life scenario. It's one thing to understand the theory behind the concepts but applying them to one's own life consistently and when the pressure is on is something that is very difficult for most of us aspiring RP men I believe.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well played, you held frame through a shitstorm of external stressors.

Notice the difference between ordering people to do as you expect, and making them realize that THEY WANT to do as you expect. (This presupposes that your expectations are realistic AND in line with each family member's goals and abilities.) This is a form of the Socratic Method, wherein you teach by asking the right questions, leading the student to realize they know the correct way, and want to strive toward it for their own reasons.

The difference is between RULER and LEADER. OP has shown how to be a leader of one's family unit, even within the broken entitlement society that exists today. Excellent post!

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 8 points9 points  (12 children)

If you dont get your dogs fixed they will hop the fence run away and fuck other dogs. Your daughter is just following her biological imperative its natural for her to hop the fence run away and get fucked by the neighborhood strays. Its nature bro. Dont be mad. #Biotruths

[–]TW_RPAwake[S] 18 points19 points  (1 child)

We all have a lizard brain somewhere compelling us to act in a primal manner. My job is to help her think critically about those impulses and how they can affect her goals. Clearly it didnt stop her two nights back, but I came to this awareness when she was 20. Had I or any other new father reading these threads known these truths at a young age, she would have better controls over her impulses.

This battle was lost, but the war isnt over. In less than a year of my RP awakening, my daughter TRULY feels shame for bad actions and respects our household more. That is a missing component with the majority of millennials these days.

[–]JackBlackDaHack 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My job is to help her think critically about those impulses and how they can affect her goals.

That's all well and good, but I also think there has to be a primal fear factor there. Teenage kids, especially girls, don't think things through. The kids have to fear having to be accountable to you more than they fear peer pressure or whatever else compels them to do stupid shit. Kind of like when the alpha wolf bares his teeth and growls at miscreants in his pack to let them know he isn't to be fucked with.

[–]krieggz 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Pretty sure the deal orbits around family rather than hypergamy in this specific case. The relevance of the daughter situation depends on how much independence is given before they leave the house, and the mother and father are in their full right to restrict her liberties in order to honor the "contract" that is living below their roof.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Contracts are honored between men. This 21 year old bitch has a biological imperative to get sperm and no amount of morality is getting in the way of that. Cats in heat will jump out of four story windows to get fucked by Toms. Daddy's words arnt going to stop anyone

[–]cocoguard 0 points0 points [recovered]

Because young boys or teenagers never break their dads' rules either.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll refer you back to our "Loyalty, honor, integrity" thread and how those are masculine traits. I have no doubt boys break their dad's rules too, but I can speak from experience that they do so in ways that have far more lenient repercussions than when daughters do, all things being equal.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

harsh

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 11 points12 points  (0 children)

So many fuckers here are soft as shit. This us pretty mild for Red Pill

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bravo. Men, this is how it is done.

[–]JackBlackDaHack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great post.

Best advice for dads with teenage kids:

"It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both." -Niccolo Machiavelli

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very nice. You are a shining example of what us marriedTRPers need to be about.

Want to grace us with your presence over at /r/marriedredpill?

[–]feelstheheats 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Did your son end up staying on the team after all though? I didn't get that part.

[–]TW_RPAwake[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im friends with the coach, and he knew what was going down before practice ended. He watched from a distance. I gave him a thumbs-up when my son decided to stay with an improved attitude.

After my boy was out of sight, I shook the coach's hand and hugged him. We were both really thankful that the crisis was averted.

[–]vicious_armbar 0 points1 point  (1 child)

We got home, and I remained calm toward my daughter. After a really silent dinner, I told her to look me in the eye; which she tearfully did. I calmly explained that she could be an adult and accountable to herself in her own place, but if she still wants to put her boots under my dinner table then it comes with my rules. The next time it happens I’ll ask her to leave.

That's one of the worst moves you can make if the guy has his own place. Many time the daughters response will be: "That's fine. I'll move into [boyfriend's] house". Or she'll simply move out all of her shit to his house while you're gone. You both know that if things don't work out with her boyfriend you'll let her move back in because; you won't let her sleep under a bridge, or stoop to banging a disguising beta just to have a place to live.

I've seen it happen plenty of times.

[–]yummyluckycharms 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True - but unfortunately, if the daughter is acting this way its probably too late to correct her behaviour.

One needs to tailor their response based on the attiude of the person - meaning if the daughter is very proud - she'd rather suck beta cock and be out of the house then eat crow and surrender to her parents authority.

Based on the kids pretty bratty behaviour, I suspect that daddy had a period where he was pretty beta and got walked on all over by the kids and wife. He's in damage control mode right now though.

Needs to hold tough, and he might be able to save the relationship with the kids in time.

[–]gweneverexoxo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this is a great post. nice to see peiple that fills.in the position of father and captain well.

you.must have gone through a great transformation if you were able to control your urges to yell/ground/punish your children. from my own experiences with my abusive father i can tell you violence and anger is not the way to go with children. you should disipline them through respect. rarely ever is anger needed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really happy those kids have a strong father figure. gg

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Ehhh, I've been noticed a little trend on TRP recently. One of toxicity it seems. Yes, TRP has it's "anger phase" and everything which I understand, but I digress.

OP, while I commend you for seeming like you were stoic in the text I can't say I agree with the way you handled the situation. I played football for 13 years from when I was 4 years old to 17 years old. There are many factors in which your son may not be telling you as to why he wanted to quit. A quitting in life is terrible, but making a decision to not play football because he doesn't think it's right for him is different. Another factor could be how he is perceived or treated on the team and how the coaches react to him or if he is in a toxic team environment. This is all you must take into account when discussing this matter with a person.

When I say discuss I mean discuss. I know you wanted to exert you masculinity or w/e on your son, but the place to do that was not in front of all of his coaches and friends. There is a thing in the military that they teach all the officers and NCOs; it's that you never admonish a subordinate in front of their peers or even higher up. They will respect you more and your leadership if you did it in private without guilt tripping them. Now I don't know how you admonished your son, but you made sure to say that you did it in front of all his coaches and friends which it either shows you made a big scene about it or you're just trying to pander to us. As a former football player I can tell you that if you did make a scene out of it than you probably did more harm than good on his image to his friends, coaches, and team as a whole. Either way I don't agree with it.

When a soldier wants to quit Ranger School they always ask them if they are sure they want to quit and if they do than that's it. It doesn't make them a bad soldier for not completing Ranger School, but if they force someone to be in a program they don't want to be in than it harms the fidelity and cohesiveness of that program.

Maybe next time see what the issues were with your son in regards to the football program and see his interests in other extra curricular activities or team based activities, if you really want him on a team based learning program.

But I can say that I learned infinitely more about leadership and mutual respect in the military than I ever did on the football field. They are many other avenues for a young person to get leadership capabilities and physical readiness than playing football.

[–]Pattheboss56 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If the kid has a real reason to quit, he's is encouraging him to man up and speak up, if he is just being a whiny quitter, he is disciplining him. I wanted to quit football after a few years because I was a bitch, but my dad made me stick with it because I had no good reason to quit. I played another six years and don't regret a thing. If my dad had just let me quit the second I saw adversity, I wouldn't be here today, but if I had a valid reason to quit he would have listened

[–]TW_RPAwake[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

As the parent of a 14YO and 21YO, I can say with the utmost confidence that kids shit-test parents all the time too. In the absence of posting a wall-o-text, I'll simply add that my son has one and only one mandate from me:

be involved in a positive activity which makes you sweat and part of a team

I dont care if it is football, track, basketball, paintball, or anything else. I care that he is challenged by those around him and he rises to it. He exhibits a tendency to "throw up his hands" when he isnt in the top 20%.

I KNOW my son loves football. He decided to give it up when the other boys hit puberty before he did and his rank went from the top 20% to the bottom 20%. Thus, in my eyes he was quitting for the WRONG reasons.

[–]chromeburn 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This a 14 yr old kid we're talking about here (not an 18+ year old soldier) and thus needs to be taught how the world works. There's a "bigger meaning" to almost everything that parents do with/for their kids. These are not independent adults interacting on level ground with a certain shared objective, this is a dad teaching the importance of integrity and consequence.

The kiddo didn't say, "Mom, I want to quit." and then make plans to do so. If he did, then yeah, no need to call him out, let him find his thing. But if the kiddo wants to rage at mom and blame her football issues, he better be damn well ready to defend that stance. A young teenager would do well to learn early how to own his own emotions and actions, whatever they may be. If the kid ended up saying "Coach, I joined because my mom made me, now I'm leaving. Team, you guys are assholes. Uncle Coach, I hope I see you around" or whatever, then I'd be happy with that outcome just as much as what went down here. Either way, he would've owned it. Sounds like he won't be making these sort of accusations and blames anytime soon. And if he is pissed about something and needs to confront it or if he wants to make a difficult change, dad showed him a bit on how that's done.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree with what you say, but the way I read it, the son doesn't REALLY want to quit, he was just having a shitheaded teen moment.

[–]DoctorWelch 2 points2 points [recovered]

I may not agree with everything you said, but you definitely make some good points. The fact that you and I are being downvoted for not circle jerking into OPs open mouth is sickening.

There is definitely some good information in this place, but threads like this where any and all decent and disagreement are downvoted makes this place seem very similar to every other pathetic subreddit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea, I agree. When I first got into TRP I soaked up as much as I could then I put into my own line of thinking rather than a pure /r/TheRedPill thinking. I'm not Purple Pill; still decidedly Red Pill, but there is a lot of the same ol, same ol going on.

Most replies I see nowadays are of no sustenance. They are usually something like "Women fucking sucks. Told ya." or "Western men are getting smarter to the ways of the woman and their lies and deceit". It's like a boiling down of the issues down to a simple thing like all girls are single celled organisms.

There is no discussion or retorts. It's an echo chamber of people who get their ideas from the comment section and not the sidebar or any outside reading. There are some awesome posts where I learn something and it changes my view, but for the most part it's turning into annoying rhetoric. I'll still be here though.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ehhh, I've been noticed a little trend on TRP recently. One of toxicity it seems.

So take a little break. Like, maybe 14 days worth.

[–]kirekcocnah 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Spoken like football player and NOT like a parent.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You would not be incorrect.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read "flatulent coworkers" and thought man, isn't that just the icing on your shit cake.

[–]1Dark-Ulfberht 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well done, sir. Well fucking done.

I have a brand new daughter, and I know I'll run into this at some point. I'm going to remember this comment.

[–]DoctorWelch -2 points-2 points [recovered]

The circle jerk in this thread is so hard I can here you guys cumming from miles away.

Most of the shit in this post is a mix of pussified emotional beta with overprotective and controlling wanna be alpha. It's like most of you fucks get off on hearing about someone emitting even the slightest bit of masculinity in their daily life.

Damn, this shit is pathetic.

[–]DoctorWelch -1 points-1 points [recovered]

I'm not going to sit here and pat you on the back cause enough people have done that already and it doesn't really accomplish anything. The son part was handled pretty well but you freaking out that your 21 year old daughter is not home at night is pretty idiotic.

The mere fact that she could possibly do anything labeled "sneaking out" at that age is not a very good sign. You are clearly squeezing her so tight she is going to do the very thing you don't want. Would you rather let her do her thing and know what she is doing, or impose stupid rules to constrict her that force her to disobey if she wants the freedom you should already be giving her. Guide your children on the right path, it is theirs to decide. Hand holding all the way through only makes it worse and drives them away.

Other than that though, keeping calm and not raging is definitely the way to go. Showing your son that his decisions have consequences so he should takes his words seriously is definitely an important lesson that many people never receive. The way you handled that is easy, simple, direct, and effective. You may already be doing this but I think it might be important to see why he went apeshit on his mom. There is clearly something there probably related to, "Mom just doesn't understand," and he probably wants his father not just to be strict with him but also be able to discuss why it is that he was upset like that.

[–]GarandTheftAvto 3 points4 points  (7 children)

My biggest problem with the daughter stuff is that she didn't tell him she was leaving. She's 21, she's old enough to drink and live on her own. She lives in his house, she tells him when she comes and goes if its late (I'm assuming she left the house late at night). I don't think its unreasonable to expect a text that shes leaving so he sees it when he wakes up.

[–]DoctorWelch 0 points0 points [recovered]

She is 21. The parents don't need to know what she is doing or where she is every second of the day. She should be able to come and go at her convenience and if she has not left a note or text the first god damn solution is not calling every person in a 50 mile radius due to there being no other explanation than an evil rapist/murderer/shitlord has stolen her to her doom.

Or maybe I'm wrong because of all those evil rapist men out there that are going to kidnap and rape the shit out of her if she steps out of the house without protection.

Yeah, maybe it would be nice if she left a note or text, but if not so what. She is an adult and can handle herself...or at least should be able to if raised right.

[–]GarandTheftAvto 0 points1 point  (5 children)

The argument is not that he should know her whereabouts every second of every day. It is about her whereabouts at night when he and his wife are asleep and not in direct control of the household.

No one is necessarily worried about some boogeyman or rapist shitlord. It is his house and he has near absolute discretion in making rules for it (I'm assuming the daughter knew she was not supposed to sneak out).

[–]DoctorWelch 0 points0 points [recovered]

I used day in the terms of 24 hours. The mere fact that "sneaking out" is even in the realm of possibilities is completely ridiculous. She should be able to come and go as she pleases. She is an adult and does not need a bed time or a curfew.

The fact that I am getting downvoted and you guys don't understand this is rather odd considering this is TRP. Saying, "It's my house so any illogical and completely ridiculous rule that I lay down is law because...I said so...and if she doesn't like it that's just too bad," is the exact opposite of anything Red Pill.

You don't gain respect by being stupid, stubborn, and illogical. At a certain point you have to let your kids become adults, men or women. It always seems to be harder for parents to let their daughters make their own decisions, which makes sense, but that is no excuse to let your emotions cloud your parental judgement.

[–]GarandTheftAvto 0 points1 point  (3 children)

used day in the terms of 24 hours

I still think your argument oversimplifies OP's concerns. Days are not discreet blocks of 24 hour periods with each hour of equal value to the next hour. Leaving the house on a Saturday afternoon at noon is completely different than leaving on a Monday night at midnight.

That being said, your comment here is introducing a straw man which is not productive:

It's my house so any illogical and completely ridiculous rule that I lay down is law because...I said so...and if she doesn't like it that's just too bad.

Clearly, everyone in the thread thinks that OP's rule is neither illogical or ridiculous. OP thinks that she either cannot leave in the middle of the night without saying so or without leaving in the middle of the night at all (with room for interpretation based on OP's post).

In any event, its his house and he has near carte blanche to lay down his rules. He seems, based on the post, to have handled it maturely by speaking calmly but firmly to his family about his frustration, and being true to his values without being arbitrary. THAT is TRP.

Edit: Referencing your use of "day"

[–]DoctorWelch 0 points0 points [recovered]

You can pull out freshmen introductory level logical fallacies all you want, and since you seem so bent on not being able to follow logic without laying it down for you simply then I will try again.

All adults make their own decisions and do what they want when they want. OP's daughter is an adult. Therefore she makes her own decision and does what she wants when she wants. Ahh, but there we have it, according to OP's "house rules" she is not "allowed" to do this. Therefore, by logical definition OP is not treating his daughter as an adult.

It is OP's decision whether or not he wants to treat his 21 year old daughter as and adult or as a child, and I am saying that by my opinion treating her as a child well into her adult years only damages her maturity and the relationship he has with her.

Feel free to disagree with that point if you want, but don't try to use thread consensus to make arguments. We are not women, we don't look for consensus to determine what the correct course of action is, and we don't let our emotional attachments to our daughters dictate the correct course of action we take in guiding them into adulthood.

[–]GarandTheftAvto -1 points0 points  (1 child)

You have holes here, not all peoples' definitions of "adults" are the same. If OP didn't want his daughter in his house at all, period, despite the fact that she was an adult he could tell her to move out. She is an adult and would ostensibly be fine in a vacuum- but that'd still be fucked up cause she is family and likely depends on him for financial support. Therefore, despite her status as an adult, she must follow his rules in the house, plain and simple.

Your point that consensus doesn't matter is well taken. I agree with you there, and my use of consensus is a weakness in my prior argument.

[–]Mastros34 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If he yelled at his daughter it would certainly want her to break out. She's old enough to be able to do what she wants legally, mature wise theirs not more he can do then guide her. Even though I'm a guy I've found knowing I can talk with my parents about problems and even who I'm seeing and it being a comfortable environment is important.

Her not telling them where she is when she's under their roof isn't smart. But if they tried to prevent her from going out for no reason outside of them not being comfortable it will make her break out. It seems from the circumstances he handled it as best he could. If he keeps an open relationship with his daughter and she sees him making his mother feel safe she will as well and will come to him for advice.

[–]Kaltano 2 points2 points [recovered]

If you live or are a guest in someone else's house as an you follow the rules of their house. If you are an adult and don't like the rules you move out or leave. It's understood that the loss of certain liberties are the cost of her continuing to stay there, not only rent free but provided for as if she were still a child. She chose to accept the terms, that's part of being an adult no matter how you feel about it.

[–]DoctorWelch -1 points-1 points [recovered]

This is a very stubborn and childish way to go about living life. By all means, make illogical rules and force all the children you CHOSE to create to live by those rules even if it means they are worse off for it. Forcing a child to leave home because you are too egotistical and emotional about protecting that child from...well, completely fabricated dangers...is a great way to damage relationships and stifle their ability to make wise decisions.

Or, take responsibility for the fact that you had kids and choose to do right by them in their journey from childhood to adulthood by being reasonable and respectful in order to lead by example.

[–]johngalt1234 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Difference in the way an Alpha Dad handles discipline and a Beta Dad handles discipline: https://patriactionary.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/the-alpha-dad-and-the-beta-dad-a-punishing-tale/

[–]1sailorJery -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Where do you live that your son is playing football in March?

[–]TW_RPAwake[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Indoor Arena football, and Im not saying. :-)

[–]1sailorJery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that makes more sense, you coulda just left it at arena football, I understand not wanting to say where you live, just making sure you weren't full of shit!

[–]C00l_Guy -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I don't know if this guy is totally a paragon of RP with his children doing such horrible things.

I doubt that daughter of his is still pure.