Red Pill Theory[FR]: You only exist to women if they want something from you (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Nothing revolutionary here, just another data point from the real world which I'd like to share. Obviously anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth.

Part of my RP journey has been to become more socially active, and be more proactive in setting up meetings and reaching out to people. In line with this, I've recently been reaching out to Facebook \"friends\" from college and high school who I'd lost touch with, to see who wants to meet up and shoot the shit for old time's sake.

I had a response rate of 100% with my guy friends/ former associates. Most of the meet-ups were pretty friendly, but some of them were awesome, and it was great to re-connect with some cool guys who I'd largely forgotten about. In every case, we met up, had a drink, talked shit for a while, and a good time was had.

My female friends were more patchy. Some said yes, and some said no. As an aside, I was pretty beta back in the day and I had a LOT of female \"friends\". My primary identity with women was to be the confidante, the listener, the girl problems helper. I gained some form of validation from this, thinking that I was \"good with women\" because I'd give such great advice. My advice and attention was the value which women used me for back then, and of course sex = 0.

So during this \"reaching out to meet up\" process, I found that girls were willing to meet up with me based on only ONE criteria - a yes/no answer to ONE question, which was: \"is this girl looking for a man\".

  • In 100% of cases, women who were happily married, just had kids (I'm 31), engaged or in a relationship with a high value male either didn't even respond, or politely declined my offer to meet up.

  • Women who were divorced, single, or otherwise DTF said yes. The more desperate they were, the more enthusiastically they wanted to meet up with me.

  • In every one of my meetups with my single friends, they either outright hit on me, or very obviously steered the conversation to relationships, sex, etc.

  • ZERO women made any reference to my counselling, the help I'd given, or gave any kind of a reason for not keeping in touch over the years.


  • Women don't care who you are, only what they can get from you, or what you can do for them.

  • Past favors are completely irrelevant to the present and are null and void as soon as they are delivered

  • If a woman is showing interest in you outside of a workplace setting, then on some level, she wants something from you. If Alpha, probably your dick. If Beta, probably your emotional counsel or your money. In both cases, almost certainly your validation/attention.

  • Men will evaluate your worth by your character, women will evaluate your worth by your utility.

[–]Bulldog44 172 points173 points  (25 children)

Hilarious that you posted this, as just this very day I got a phone call out of the blue from a girl I was interested in a couple months ago. She didn't return the interest. So today she calls me out of the blue while I'm at work, obviously I didn't answer because I'm at work, but I did return her call when I got home, and found out she had called because she needed a ride lol, and it was not surprising to me at all, this is one of those facts that men always find a way to forget, to a women, no matter how into you they may be, view you as a resource and nothing more. I suppose its true of all people now that I think about it.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

We seek friendship and loyalty from men and this is an instance where a man could demonstrate his qualities to another man by giving a ride.

For women, we want intimacy and sexual desire. That's why it really gets to us when they play us.

[–]solbrothers 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Shit, I would rather give a guy friend a ride somewhere than a woman friend. At least with the guy, it would be "dude, thanks so much for helping me out" but with a woman it would be "youre welcome for allowing me to let you spend time with me"

[–]Timmytanks40 102 points103 points  (16 children)

Welcome to enlightenment. That behavior wasn't female. It was simply human. If it was some guy from undergrad that called like that it wouldn't seem relevant. Thats the thing about part of RP its univeral application. The only thing about women is their shameless drive to exploit resources. Some guys would be embarrassed at begging for a ride. Women are taught its a mans privilege to be used all for one thing. Anyway odds are if you suck with women you want then the rest of life probably isnt looking much better.

TL;DR - Nobody really loves you. Go lift.

[–]moiez326 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Lmao loved your tl;dr lifting is the answer to all our problems.

[–]laere 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Weights won't leave you, give you shit, judge you, or anything.

They will help you though.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"In my life I've met a lot of people who considered themselves "friends" but who tried to steal from me, hurt me or even kill me. I have never regretted a single minute of training though. Every single drop of sweat was worthwhile. It's the only thing that ever brought me nothing but good".

[–]SilverWolfeBlade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They won't cheat on you, or scream at you when you drop them either.

[–]through_a_ways 35 points36 points  (10 children)

That behavior wasn't female.

It is, and you go on in your post to recognize why it is so. Men desire/empathise with women so much that many will gladly do favors for them simply because they look hot.

The behavior may not be inherently female, but it is female for all real world purposes, because men won't experience the same behavior from women, and thus won't expect it from them.

[–]Timmytanks40 16 points17 points  (8 children)

Okay im sorry but thats false. Women will do favors all the time. Your relative values are extremely important. I remember one occasion in particular I was drunk and employed an unattractive woman to drive me home. She actually bought me McDonalds too. In exchange I high fived her.

Of couse the typical situation is gender reversed but not at all unheard of in my circles.

[–]solaris1990 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Exactly. I've had women do me favours too. I think when some men think of 'women' they think of 'hot attractive women who I desire' and base all their conceptions of women on those girls. As you say it's generally human behaviour to use people for something (even in most friendships between males there is something being gained, it's just not as tangible as cash or resources).

I guess the disclaimer that has to be made is that unconditional love is indeed possible just a rarity and generally foolish to expect, as shown by the many accounts of self-sacrifice and the better side of humanity.

[–]Pm_MeyourManBoobs 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think the idea of unconditional love might exist...but to me when a woman says she has unconditional love for a man, she is really saying she has unconditional resources given to her and has no need to find those resources from someone else. Imo, unconditional love from an attractive woman under 30 is probably not going to happen, as she can expel energy towards another higher branch and reap the rewards from the increased resources given to her. A woman whose looks are fading though might be more inclined to appreciate the differences in her partner, and begin to settle into marriage or other social contracts, as she realizes that her energy reward ratio has diminished.

[–]solaris1990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I think with attractive women under 30 it becomes even more unlikely, but it depends on upbringing and past and shared experiences, the human brain is very flexible so you never know but on average I believe you're right.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Buy me mcdonalds? I would have fucked her on the spot.

[–]SoldierGenerale 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I missed the bus once and a woman in a car saw that and offered me a ride to the next busstop.

Women are sweet, stop hating and start appreciating.

[–]Jigsus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No not really. That is what hurt me the most when I was attached to my LTR. I would have loved her even if she turned into a total loser junkie. As long as I had her love I could deal with anything and stand there but in reality a woman's love is conditional. What she wants for it depends in the woman but they all want something and if that something gies away so does their love.

[–]zephyrprime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Somehow, I kinda think that the reason women think of men as just a resource is because they themselves are not capable of thinking of themselves as anything more than an object. It's kinda like how some animals only care about you feeding them food on a daily basis.

[–]RPTAW 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holy fuck, it just clicked that this was how my mother treated all the men in her life. She contacted this one person whenever she needed something (a ride). She even told me that the only reason she went out for meals with him was for the sake of the hundred dollar gift card he gave her, as well as for the fifty dollar one he gave me. As a matter of fact, she took for herself one of the cash gifts he gave me once.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She was going you a fitness test only she's a donkey and not princess Fiona. Shrek would give Fiona a ride because Shrek totally bangs Fiona. Shrek would not give the donkey a ride because Shrek does not bang the donkey.

I hope you told the donkey no unless you offered an alternative exchange to allow her to become Fiona.

[–][deleted] 86 points87 points  (24 children)

Men will evaluate your worth by your character, women will evaluate your worth by your utility.

Macroeconomics applied in real life

[–]PistolDawn 27 points27 points [recovered]

Everyone evaluates some degree of worth by utility.

[–]thrway1312 18 points19 points  (10 children)

Value is 100% the only reason your friends hang out with you -- be it personality, connections, materialistic, or any other utility; nobody in life gives a shit about you unless they benefit from your interactions.

So go lift, find a good drug connect, make friends in multiple groups so you can introduce them to each other, and read so you can contribute to the discussions.

[–]solaris1990 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You are generally right except that the human mind is occasionally irrational enough to make you care about people who you don't benefit from - at the most extreme there is Stockholm syndrome or capture-bonding, but every day things such as family ties or empathy developed in groups. Economic principles applied to human thinking in general tend to fail for this reason. Anyway, you are broadly right, most people seek to derive utility from their interactions with others, whether male, female, old, whatever.

[–]asdfghjkltyu 6 points7 points  (10 children)

Men appreciate good advice and friendship, its a hard thing to find in the world. Either women aren't a good judge of these thing, or they simply don't value it at all. They want more. Friendship to them has very very low value.

[–]2rp_valiant 9 points10 points  (8 children)

women form shallower friendships than men. Most men would charge onto the field of battle with their best friends by their side and would generally stand by their closest friends through thick and thin. Women stop being friends at the drop of a hat and even when they are friends many of them will bitch about each other the second one of them leaves the room. I suspect this is a small part of why the beta dynamic exists and why men and women can't be friends for life - men yearn for a closer friendship bond but women will cast them off at the first sign of trouble.

[–]solaris1990 3 points4 points  (7 children)

With specific regard to OP's post though, most men would not charge into battle for some random chick they used to speak to fuck-knows how many years ago. In fact as with his women (where it was whether they had a successful man), I don't think most men would even be arsed to meet up with this girl if she was unappealing to him for whatever reason (in our case mainly looks).

I think that we are just conditioned to try and form strong friendships with our own gender (where men try to with women these are generally not platonic). As you rightly point out women's seem to be shallower and I am actually inclined to blame social factors for this: gender roles and the way in which they are taught to bond with each other (gossip, bitching). I think women may enjoy stronger friendship bonds with each other in other cultures.

[–]2rp_valiant 0 points1 point  (6 children)

I don't believe that gossiping and bitching is a learned behaviour. As we know, women are inherently machiavellian and seem to adopt a crabs-in-a-bucket behaviour with regards to any actions that stray from the norm. If a woman in a group of friends starts a business and starts weightlifting while the others don't, do you think the friends will support her as men would, or do you think they'll encourage her to her face and then make snide remarks behind her back? I couldn't say why this is, but I do believe it's just how women are.

Hell, if you believe period dramas and older books then Victorian English women were some of the worst for these kinds of behaviours and this was in a time where women were expected to be polite, ladylike and mature.

[–]solaris1990 1 point2 points  (5 children)

It's difficult to classify these things either as biological or learnt behaviours. I see it as a mix of both. In the past men could resolve issues of hierarchy and power by physical means. For more or less obvious reasons women did not and other mechanisms were created to do this, e.g. the gossiping and bitching. So you could say it 'came about naturally'. In a post-materialist world I don't see a need for it to stay like this though, I think culture/society can affect it. I don't think it's actually written into their genes, if you know what I mean?

[–]2rp_valiant 1 point2 points  (4 children)

people tend to underestimate the extent to which our evolutionary heritage affect our day-to-day impulses and actions. You might feel like we don't need to act like this but the fact of the matter is something in our brain will encourage us to behave like this anyway. It takes a conscious effort to not behave in an evolutionarily-selected-for way. For example, why chase attractive women when there are plenty of ugly women who also have vaginas that you could get easily? Because your "reptilian brain" (hate that term) tells you to. You could feasibly choose to only go for fuggers, but your reward pathways are not set up to encourage that behaviour and hence you won't be drawn to pull them.

[–]solaris1990 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I definitely agree with what you just wrote, it's just hard for us to abstractly decide exactly what is evolved and what is not. Let's use your example - as men we know that we are instinctively drawn to certain women, it is biological no questions asked - on the other hand we are also told that we should desire these women, shown men getting them in movies or books, and see men who manage to obtain them as revered, so could this further the psychological incentive and reward gained from doing so (even if it's already pretty huge for biological reasons)?

If that's the case then there could be a mix of both things but obviously leaning very highly to evolutionary. In the case of gossiping and bitching however, it is less clear-cut. Can you think of a clear evolutionary advantage to these things being evolved behaviours, rather than learnt behaviours? I mean the human brain is natural selections' masterpiece precisely because it is flexible and allows us to adapt to different social contexts. A brain which is not predisposed to bitching will still learn to do so in an environment were it is rewarded, but not where it is not, my assumption is that this is more useful than it being set in stone?

If I'm right it still makes sense that the bitching behaviour would be inherited culturally for the reasons in my previous comment.

[–]2rp_valiant -1 points0 points  (2 children)


generally I wouldn't recommend anything by the daily mail, but in this case it's just parroting the contents of a book.

[–]solaris1990 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hmm, that article mirrors what I said in my initial comment about men and women using different methods to compete and to bond but it doesn't answer my question and explain why this need be evolutionary rather than social...

My linguist friend just told me about a theory that the evolution of complex language structures and basically prototypical gossip saved us from extinction as with the Neanderthals (Homo narrans: the role of narration in the emergence of human language by Bernard Victorri). But again, it doesn't account for a gender difference. How would a gender-based predisposition confer an evolutionary advantage?

[–]crazytrpr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because that friend might be useful and loyal if I'm the same way, a loyal and useful ally. We might be in bar fight together and may need to cover each others 6, help each other out in a quasi quid pro quo way.

Most women (there are exceptions) expect someone else to cover their 6 while they beat a hasty retreat. Most women will not return the favor with a favor, not asking for sex, just basic I help you, you help me with baby sitting or something like that. They do the same thing to each other all the time especially the high status pretty ones.

You don't do favors for single women, you charge money. You can help out a married woman because her man will be the one repaying the favor.

[–]PedophilePriest 29 points30 points  (7 children)

Although I don't disagree with your conclusions, I think you may be reading too much into this.

Put yourself in the shoes of the person recieving your invitations to catch up.

As a guy, ohh shit my old buddy wants to grab a beer. I should do that.

As a female, hmmm one of my old orbiters wants to get together for drinks? A. Im in the market for new dick and he's gotten really hot based on his profile pics...sure hell yeah. B. I have good dick/provider and this guy who always had a crush on me but was my personal bitch wants me to grab a beer? Eww no fucking thanks.

Women and men, are not ever friends. Every woman you engaged to catchup will interpret that invitation as an invitation for dick. Women are not stupid, they understand what their purpose is.

Basically all that happened is the ones who were interested in you responded, the ones that weren't didn't.

Theres nothing wrong with that btw, even beta men will treat women largely the same way.

Also if you were the boyfriend or husband would you be receptive twoards your woman meeting up with an old male friend this way?

It's not about him saying yes or no, but does she respect her man enough to not bring up that situation? I knew I'd lose respect for my woman for even considering putting herself in that situation.

Lastly remember, Facebook was in reality the first prominent dating app. It's been watered down after they let in in old people and other apps/sites appeared but anyone in the 27-32 age range vividly remembers Facebook as a hookup tool.

[–]yearlydying 7 points7 points [recovered]

^ most sensible reply on here

[–]solaris1990 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I agred completely until the 'women and men, are not ever friends'. Wtf. I have women friends who have pulled through for me when it counted - places to sleep, money, etc. even when I had little to offer them. In no way do I think they are a majority but generalising human behaviour and relationships like that just shows ignorance of how varied our species and interactions are.

[–]SgtTRP 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I have women friends who have pulled through for me when it counted - places to sleep, money, etc. even when I had little to offer them.

Perhaps it's because they've acquired masculine traits. (See r/TheRedPill/comments/2mtp17/quality_or_equality/cm8kcei)

In no way do I think they are a majority but generalising human behaviour and relationships like that just shows ignorance of how varied our species and interactions are.

I agree that they're not a majority. But how big a minority they are? Do you think it's bigger than 5%? Because 5% minority doesn't make us such ignorant apes for generalizing.

[–]solaris1990 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Generalizing is a fair strategy when you approach the world and I guess the size of the minority may vary culturally, but the way it was phrased was like 'all apples are green', it's just incorrect to state it outright like that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

generalisation is the only way we can understand and have meaningful discussions about humans (anything). Suddenly you can't say the human heart is on the left because a few people's hearts are on the right. etc ...

[–]solaris1990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is true, but the way he phrased it is not really appropriate to convey that.

[–]RPthrowaway123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Chris Rock had a skit about this: everything a man says to a woman outside work is essentially a thinly veiled offer for dick. You're right about how they see those invitations.

[–]TheNarrowRoad 66 points66 points [recovered]

This is a good reminder. But, it's the same with us men. Women only exist to us because we want to fuck them. . . . . .

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (2 children)

There's a lot of truth to this. The same guys who complain about women using them look right through women who are out of their sexual interest range.

[–]sigmayogi 13 points13 points [recovered]

I dig this trend of two way analysis on TRP lately.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I appreciate it as well, but with each corollary there is usually the exact same caveat: yes men use women they are attracted to for sex, but they generally won't use unattractive women for other shit like rides or a free moving service.

Men stick to groups of women they are attracted to, or by necessity should be friendly with (like a mutual friend or classmate). Women sort by social rank times utility. (in other words, if he is only to serve a use, he still has to be relatively okay looking, otherwise her public image is in jeopardy).

A man's intentions are usually pretty clear from the start. But with women's intentions, they are concealed as soon as the possibility of sex is dangled in front of the guy's nose. And this is of course by virtue of the man's egotistical fantasy that she would ever give him a chance.

So while the argument may be that man's sorting system is "shallow" because it relies on looks, at least it's honest. With women there is so much exploitation, manipulation, and duplicity that one could hardly put the two on the same level.

[–]BowlOfCandy 13 points14 points  (2 children)

This. OP's post is useful to those for which it is new or unrecognized information. Recognize the way you judge others and focus on being a genuine person.

Women see three sexes: Women, Alphas, and Betas.

Men also see three sexes: Attractive women, Men they respect, everyone else.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

As someone who has been bullied and rejected a lot, I also see those lonely men without friends and I "am the friend of those who doesn't have any".

That was before though. Now I've understood that they can only bring me down. But I still see them and feel a little bad for them.

[–]red_pill_throw_away 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm like you that way. I always give a such people upto three chances (depending on closeness of prior relationship) where I tell them my advice and what they're doing that is causing them to be in the situation they're in. If after three attempts they don't get it, they're not worth feeling sorry for imo.

[–]systemshock869 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, sort of a weak post, but I think the take home here is that the DTF girls didn't refer to his old friendship with them at all. Beta him that listened to their problems, did favors, hung out all the time, treated them like equals... fuck that guy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True haha, but they want to fuck us too so it's not exactly the same!

[–]theHangedGod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, this is an overlooked point on motives. No one wants to believe they and everyone else only do things for their benefit or at least perceived benefit.

OP was the confidant for women. His motive behind that wasn't because it helped the woman, but he thought he was getting in good with them.

If anyone thinks back on the motives behind a decision they made, it was always in their self interest. Either to directly benefit him/herself or to indirectly benefit him/herself through either winning favor with someone, looking more beneficial to society, expand their legacy, or to just feel good. Decisions always steer towards the greatest perceived self benefit.

[–]2rp_valiant -1 points0 points  (1 child)

only the vapid ones. There's a certain appeal to being friends with a girl who actually is passionate about something other than makeup and gossip, like a female engineering major. It's not overly practical though as women aren't good friends.

[–]solaris1990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm like you and feel the same way, but from my own observations I think a lot of other men will look past the non-vapid ones if they are not sexually appealing to them, and are thus on similar levels of shallowness as what OP is trying to point out.

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (16 children)

The hardest thing about swallowing redpill is finding that girls dont like you for you as a good person ...just what you can do for them. through experience I have come to learn this the hard way. No way will I befriend a girl if I'm not using her in some way...I.e hooking up with her friends or having sex with her.

No way I'm going out my way to help a girl... I refuse to be a utility

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Thats the thing bro. What CAN I do for them? It's like Briffaults law and how it states they stay for you for the benefits.

What fucking benefits? I'm just a dude that studies hard, is very extroverted and social, decent height and more but so is the other guy and he gets more pussy than me. Why? this is what I fail to understand.

[–]the99percent1 1 point2 points  (6 children)

you've just answered your own question...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

still no plates or girls though

[–]1 TRP SupporterFred_Flintstone 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Might be your body language. Do you talk slow, confidant, have good posterior, solid eye contact? Do you show higher value body language by turning your body towards them a little less than they do to you?

Do you mercilessly tease them? Are you doing 'kino' from the get go?

Once you get the one girl the rest will start chasing you.

[–]rpscrote 2 points3 points  (1 child)

on top of this -- do you hate em a little? A little bit of hate goes a long way in maintaining aloofness

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

All of your points need improvement in my books. I will work on them but I think I need to work on mercilessly teasing them. Any guides on how I can do that? ♂

[–]1 TRP SupporterFred_Flintstone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a pretty good resource:


For learning to get used to touching everyone just practice touching everyone on the arm. It starts to come naturally.

Try and hold eye contact until other people break. Its a little awkward. Youd think they would call you out on it but they never do. And if they do say 'why are you holding such intense/long eye contact' you can just claim ignorance by saying "im just focusing on what you are saying".

[–]kendamagic 4 points4 points [recovered]

So true with j-girls man. One day you don't exist and then they hit you up on LINE with all the emoji like they're your best friend asking for a favor

[–]RedditArgument 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Cant say I've experienced that with J girls. In fact not too long ago one girl helped me move a new table to my apartment, strangest thing. I mean I think the main reason is she wanted to bang afterwards, but still they're not all that selfish.

Maybe I just haven't been here long enough.

[–]Limekill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She wanted something from you (dick).

Hence she was being selfish.

(I mean that is the definition of being selfish).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

hahaha... Tell them to GTFO with that shit

[–]Brolocaustic 72 points73 points  (14 children)

Perhaps the women who were married and just had kids respectfully declined because their going out with another man is unsavory or they just didn't have the time to do so. I wouldn't necessarily go out with an old friend who was from college for drinks unless my wife was coming along as well. I think you over simplify women. They can be good as well as bad.

[–]bubbleki 27 points28 points  (3 children)

This. It shouldn't be surprising that OP has been dealing with female leeches when he was such a spineless beta. They smell weakness like flies smell shit. Of course these women would be on you. There are better women out there, but they are extremely rare because they get gobbled up by men as fast as they can.

[–]solaris1990 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

They are also more or less of them depending on a number of cultural factors. In many places our own is quite selfish in certain ways...

[–]bubbleki 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It isn't cultural. It is programming. Culture is something that is naturally formed out of long lineages of tradition. The modern women is under considerable assault from propaganda, by those who have a vested interest in certain outcomes especially where it concerns how children are brought and raised into this world.

[–]solaris1990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess culture is a vague concept anyway, but basically it seems to vary across societies and communities. Propaganda definitely has a socializing influence as you say.

[–]CryptoOrchid 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This is what I was going to say, but to add to it, people in relationships in general will blow off friends a lot. This includes men and women. Obviously, women are more likely to blow off a guy because how many husbands or SO's are going to be ok with her going out to meet 'an old guy friend'.

But even guys aren't exempt from this.. It happens as we age and kids??? Forget about it.. Especially young ones. They murder your social life beyond repair. Women are the primary caretakers and I can tell you this, my wife is tied to my child and my child follows her like a shadow.

I wouldn't be upset with these women or hold it against them. If they are single.. Well of course they can go out.. They are only responsible for having a good time.

[–]asdfghjkltyu 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Perhaps the women who were married and just had kids respectfully declined because their going out with another man is unsavory

Exactly. I'd never ask a married woman to hang out.

Although I have often worried what it means when that type of woman wants to hang out. Last week I had a married woman at work ask to go out and get drinks after work, I was taken aback. I still don't really know what she wanted. I declined.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (6 children)


[–]asdfghjkltyu 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Its rarely that simple with women. She has a good husband, she likely just wants validation.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Its possible, but unlikely. I would easily say 90% of the time a married woman asks a man out for drinks alone she's already thought about him many times while getting her fingers all good and slimy between her legs during her "me" time.

[–]asdfghjkltyu 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thats very true. I just didn't want it to come across as a subtle brag.

I've known this woman well for atleast 5 years, we grew up in the same town and she married an at the time 'alpha' jock husband. She's in her late 20s but during school she was one of the 'hot' popular women so I was a bit taken a back when out of the blue she asked me out for drinks. So again, I wasn't really sure her intention. Her husband is attractive and has a job. It just seemed really odd and it was totally out of the blue.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe it's an innocent invitation to tag team her?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Both of these answers are acceptable and possible.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Pretty sure OP was casting a net for some fux and if they picked up on that, kudos to them.

[–]PM_ME_HOT_GINGERS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Cracked did a piece on this once.

Remember that this applies to all humans.

Link to Cracked article.

You are nothing but the fruit you produce.

Glengarry Glen Ross

Good father? Fuck you, Go home and play with your kids. If you want to work here. Close.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I would hope my wife would ignore your message too. If they're in a relationship, why would they meet up with a random guy from high school? I know that when I hit up a girl I haven't seen in a while, I'm trying to get some pussy and the girls know it too. They probably assumed you were trying to fuck and didn't want it.

[–]Echelon64 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Ugh, hate to admit it but I fell for this recently. I let two relatively cute girls borrow my wifi and as soon as I gave up the password I suddenly did not exist. Would not surprise me if they even remembered my name or more than likely even paid enough attention to remember it. Its what I get for going beta for even a moment and thinking with my dick instead.

[–]laere 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's often advised here that when someone asks you a question or for something to pause and think about it.

"Hey Echelon64 can we use your wifi, teehee."

Now instead of instantly saying yes cause "omg hot grills." Pause and think; "Well what am I getting out of letting them use my wifi?"

"Are they fucking me?" no "Are they sucking my dick?" no "Are they cooking and cleaning my house?" no

So what the fuck are they doing for you to deserve free shit? Nothing. It takes a while to get rid of the blue pill conditioning, but just remember to pause and think about shit before deciding. It's good to have some retrospect on these experiences too, it helps keep your mind sharp when future situations arise.

Also, cut their wifi now bro.

[–]tindermaster1986 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Find a way to change the password. Why let the lazy leech off you?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Try or u:admin p:password

[–]aphelion3342 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Tindermaster is correct.

Girls (talking to you for the first time since you gave them your password): "Hey, the wifi doesn't work anymore." Echelon: "Ah, yeah, someone was stealing my wifi so I changed the password." Girls: "Oh, well what's the new password?" Echelon: "Something something seven four, I forgot. Anyway, I'm going to watch some Youtube videos, catch you later."

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 14 points15 points  (2 children)

If you were a woman instead of a man, do you think the gender responses would have been flipped? I suspect they may have.

I'm not sure this is a valid experiment to draw conclusions about gender differences from, but rather an observation about how the opposite sex responds to the other.

[–]solaris1990 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I made the same point myself. Going down the comments I'm happy to see others have noticed too. I think if he was openly gay his results may have been massively skewed even. Definitely don't think he can take broad conclusions from this.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (10 children)

Women don't care who you are, only what they can get from you, or what you can do for them.

So if I don't like "being used" do I just stop having contact with all women?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Don't go out of your way to help them if you feel like their using you.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 8 points9 points  (1 child)

It's okay if you're being used, just as long as you can derive benefit from the interaction. I believe there was a post here about a girl that fucked OP as a way of getting back at her boyfriend for cheating. OP didn't care. The concluding sentence went along the lines of, "I was used...."

[–]friendlysociopathic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you aware that what you're saying is "It's OK if you're being used, just as long as you're using them too"? Like, I agree with you, but the language there suggests a bit of a double standard. Why is it 'being used' when it's another person, and 'deriving benefit from the interaction' when you do it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never get that feeling, because I was thought my whole life to help girls when they ask for one.

[–]laere 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't care how hot the girl is, If I have gotten nothing from her, and she is asking for favors, peace out girl scout.

[–]SgtTRP 0 points1 point  (3 children)

You may consider your (romantic) relationships as transactional. Don't think in terms of using and being used. Instead, evaluate your relationships to figure if you are getting enough value compared to the value you provide.

We, who live by values, not by loot, are traders, both in matter and in spirit. A trader is a man who earns what he gets and does not give or take the undeserved. A trader does not ask to be paid for his failures, nor does he ask to be loved for his flaws. ... A trader is a man who earns what he gets and does not give or take the undeserved.

(Source: http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/trader_principle.html)

Just as an intellectual exercise you can try this.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Instead, evaluate your relationships to figure if you are getting enough value compared to the value you provide.

I think this applies to all relationships (apart from family), not just romantic ones, am I correct?

[–]SgtTRP 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This applies to all relationships, including family. Just because you are able to evaluate things from a purely intellectual point doesn't make you a robot. Being a man is also about mastering your emotions.

My parents did everything in they can to provide me with the best future. I also did all I can to ensure they are comfortable. I still do. But it's still transactional; if they hadn't sacrified so much for me, I wouldn't have done what little I could do. On their part it was probably selfless. On my part it would be disingenuous to say so. Perhaps I do something selflessly if I have children. (Unlikely)

Extended family is pretty much the same with everybody else. Don't get too sentimental just because you share more DNA than strangers. We share 98% with chimps.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You know it's not just about DNA. They are your life travellers, you will know them for all your life. You share deep bond with them. My sister does almost nothing for me, but I love her and would do a lot for her well being. I dont think you can call this beta behaviour.

[–]crazytrpr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Make yourself rare and expensive. No free shiat

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]SgtTRP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sad as fuck. But true.

Better not waste any time and get Dark Triad.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

When I was the loner, nobody wanted shit to do with me. Men or women. At least women didn't talk to me but other men would throw shit in my face about it.

"I need PEOPLE!"

"Just do YOU!"

I was just another guy at the time. I wasn't in a gang, I had no gf, I had no money and I had no friends. Nobody gave a shit about me until I started getting laid. Women started talking to me. Women would approach me. They were willing to be seen with me for fuck's sake! And THEN other men wanted to hang out with me. Even ones I didn't like! I hate to say it but that still makes me bitter from time to time. If I could do it over again, I'd punch a lot more people in the face than I actually did. I wouldn't despise people NEARLY as much as I do. I know "deserve" has nothing to do with anything but I didn't deserve the abuse I got from other men before I finally found "it." That's all I wanted to say.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

How did you start getting laid?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I called up a prostitute one night. I basically went over and got it done. I went home happy and from that day on, I wasn't the guy I was the day before.

[–]charcoales 15 points16 points  (16 children)

I don't think this issue is a gender issue per se but people issue. "Yes-man" syndrome so to speak. Watching someone be an asshole to a homeless person and then watch them come up to you smiling and laughing because you are the one interviewing them for a job. There is a quote I can't remember where from but it reflects on how you can judge the character of someone by how they treat someone they have no obligation to be nice to.

I think we must concede the fact that we all are friendlier to some people than others, and that is often because they are more valuable to us. The best we can do is be cognizant of this reality and try to diminish it the best we can and treat people we meet with care, love, and respect to the best of our ability.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 26 points27 points  (14 children)

I don't think this issue is a gender issue per se but people issue. "Yes-man" syndrome so to speak. Watching someone be an asshole to a homeless person and then watch them come up to you smiling and laughing because you are the one interviewing them for a job.

What you're talking about isn't quite the same thing as what the OP is talking about.

Yes, we're all more inclined to behave nicely around someone when we want something from them. That's true of men and women.

But here's the difference: men and women treat PAST services differently.

For men, paying a debt is critical to maintaining your reputation. You repay people who have done things for you, so that they don't feel used and they continue to do you favours in the future.

For women, there is no such thing as a personal debt. Every service or gift rendered unto her is either an entitlement, or it's something she has already "earned" (for whatever threadbare reason she feels like concocting). When someone does a favour for a woman, she doesn't typically feel the same twinge of obligation that a man does.

We call this phenomenon Briffault's Law, and it is a well-documented phenomenon indeed.

[–]Ojisan1 4 points5 points  (3 children)

This whole thread is reminding me of that classic Eddie Murphy bit from the 1980s: "What have you done for me lately?"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I can't believe how accurate this is. And how long ago was this? Either way pretty much everyone in TRP want a foreign lady instead of a western cc riding bitch

[–]Ojisan1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That clip is from his second major video special, "Raw" which came out in 1987.

The whole thing is worth watching, there's more to the story about his African bush wife, and it doesn't end well. It's pretty funny and definitely RP.


[–]laere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Eddie Murphy has been spitting some TRP truths in his comedy for 30 years man. Guy knows his shit.

[–]charcoales 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think you are right about those who feel entitled are less likely to repay. As such, I think gender doesn't hold a candle to the character of a person as an indicator of who will or will not repay debts. Of all the people I've loaned things out to, those who impressed upon me a sense of integrity and trust were the ones most likely to repay. This was irregardless of their gender.

There are a lot of assholes out there, but I think more specific criteria should be invoked to hone in on something that doesn't immediately compel us to be suspicious of 50% of people on earth.

[–]solaris1990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quite agree and as for judging a person's character, 'observe how they treat others' and you will find your clue. As far as I have seen there are some women who are indeed kind and warm-hearted, although most people in general seem to be quite self-serving.

[–]solaris1990 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Do ugly unappealing women share this sense of entitlement or only attractive women and if so should we avoid mentioning it in such general terms? It seems to me that this is still not gender-exclusive but something that comes with with being spoiled from an early age and having no experience of the opposite struggle (e.g. most attractive women, but also men who are born wealthy and raised to be confident and never have had it bad).

[–]crazytrpr 0 points1 point  (4 children)

They all feel entitled. Ugly ones are just angry they get less than the pretty ones.

[–]solaris1990 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Are you saying a woman cannot be humbled by her life experience? Psychologically, expectations shift in accordance with environmental cues as far as I know, if you go all your life being rejected and ignored you may be sad or angry about it but I'm not sure I would call that entitlement. They will not expect favours and shit from men (as entitled women do) because they've learnt not to expect it.

If we do call it that then it seems to me that any man who is sad he is not getting with 7s, 8s, 9s, 10s whatever (so basically most men) is equally entitled (but in a worse way because unlike the ugly woman he has the option of actually working towards significantly increasing his SMV).

[–]crazytrpr 0 points1 point  (2 children)

They can be but many are not humbled.

I live in a nice Brady bunch neighborhood good schools good jobs about half work half stay home. Most of these women are not 8,9,10s. There is maybe 3 out of 100 that could qualify as a trophy wife, 4,5,6s are the norm, who married the best beta bucks they could.

You should hear the BS coming out of their over privileged mouths. It boggles my mind. They have no idea how much of protected bubble they are living in.

[–]solaris1990 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ah yeah, I guess the soft husbands and married + privileged lifestyle has them detached from reality. I feel pity for most of them since most of them live basic lives despite the comforts.

[–]crazytrpr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We all make our choices. It's a great place to raise kids at least until the revolution comes and we'll (my neighbors and I) be on the wrong side of it.

Not rich enough to escape when it comes, but rich enough to be hated. Aka we're the 1%'s hired stooges Managers, accountants, tier 3 IT, smallish business owners etc... They are (men and women) clueless how protected they are. Grayman has become a personal MO for me

The most likely disaster is divorce. Fortunately we're a no fault state so spousal support is capped and not a lifetime hand out. Child support is based on a formula. There is no she gets everything you the guys pays and and pays for it all and pays some more. All though she may try it along with a bunch of other games. The courts here frown on those kinds of shenanigans as long as you the guy lawyer up, play it straight and narrow, on the level.

[–]crazytrpr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is being nice, and then there is being a door mat or the favor sharking "nice guys" expecting sex for being "nice".

Helping your elderly neighbor is being nice, being polite is being nice, helping a kid is being nice. All else is BS

[–]stringerbell 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Women don't care who you are, only what they can get from you, or what you can do for them.

You mean humans, not women...

Men will evaluate your worth by your character, women will evaluate your worth by your utility.

Unless you're a woman, then men will evaluate your worth 100% based on how you look.

[–]grewapair 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly, why is this a concern. If women didn't have vaginas, we wouldn't give them the time of day. So I hardly see their desire for something as their own issue.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"Men will evaluate your worth by your character, women will evaluate your worth by your utility."

That's true but don't kid yourself into thinking that your guy friends like you for "who you are" or whatever bullshit like that. Being a fun, sociable guy to be around is just it's own kind of utility for other guys. Don't think for a second that other guys wont be just as quick to dismiss you if you aren't adding anything to their life.

[–]VirgoRooster 2 points2 points [recovered]

Yes, and also, men are only interested in women who have something they want.

In fact, pretty much every social interaction you have is done for the purpose of obtaining something you want from another person.

[–]laere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly this. Part of the blue pill conditioning is helping others but never helping yourself. But when you understand that everyone is looking for something from someone, then it's cool and attractive to become that selfish "asshole." that girls like.

Like other comments expand, we only live once, and we're just a mere blink of an eye in the grand universal scheme of things. Live it up boys.

[–]d4rkj4y 1 point2 points  (1 child)

And let's be honest here, women don't exist unless I want something from them too.

[–]1favours_of_the_moon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If a woman is showing interest in you outside of a workplace setting, then on some level, she wants something from you. If Alpha, probably your dick. If Beta, probably your emotional counsel or your money. In both cases, almost certainly your validation/attention.

Men will evaluate your worth by your character, women will evaluate your worth by your utility.

I think one thing that rubs men the wrong way is that with each other, what you've done in the past as a friend carries weight. You helped me out when I was down, so I'll definitely be there for you when you need it. But with one of these types of women, it's only what do you have that I need NOW, and how can I get it from you?

[–]crazytrpr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Society evaluates you by your utility as well. Even your guy friends to some extent.

Not a bad thing, being useful (but not being a doormat) can increase your social status. People trust you, they look to you for leadership especially if you can keep a level head. Being useful boosts your pride and self confidence it shows in your body language, helps you keep frame.

Thing about being useful, when you get disrespected or under compensated/under valued, you pull your services. Being overly available lowers your market value.

Useless, overly available, needy guys guys get shiat on by men and women. Both in relationships and in the workplace.

[–]PlanB_pedofile 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I began shooting models I'd have frequent women out of the blue wanting to work with me, do shoots, meet ups ect. I got early the game and knew my time and my resources were precious and thus didn't drop everything for every female wanting to seek lens validation.

I've began to pivot and be involved in other things like the art community and a local sports group and noticed the random women knocking on my wall has decided once i made it known I'm not thirsty for shoots.

A colleague of mine has been taking in every gal who wants to get naked while bending over backwards to shoot trash girls. Thristy men, thirsty girls. Out of all his shots he's not getting better nor branching out to improve his skills or to get work. I've already heard rumors of people labeling him a "guy with camera" which is a term used to mark a pervy dude taking nude photos for no purpose and get any woman into his basement with little to no standards.

While luckily I've been takin a proactive approach to try new things, new challenges, and improve my skill. I've walked onto sets and half the people I've never met before already know me while simultaneously having such good reviews that I'm being contacted for paid professional work.

Bottom line. Women are interested in you only when they can get something from you. Usually a freebie that costs you time and resources. They look for thirsty men to give them these freebies. The validation feels nice. I've enjoyed the attention. But also gotta be smart and recognize that you're actually getting screwed over because it's not like they'll ever return the favor with their time or resources.

[–]cock_pussy_up 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is why women don't make good friends. Women typically want to be "friends" with men, (a) they want to have a relationship with you, or (b) if you can provide them with something. In the second case the man is often attracted to the woman, but she's not interested in having sex with him ("friendzone"). She can use his attraction to her, and his vague hope that he'll someday get sex as a way to get him to do stuff for her, be her emotional tampon, and so on.

[–]crazytrpr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If friend zoned, you make yourself scarce. If she needs lots of favors charge cash money with 10% discount for "friends". Business is business.

Stops all friendzone freebee favors

[–]SwissPablo 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Past favors are completely irrelevant to the present and are null and void as soon as they are delivered

Except when they have a big row with you in an LTR, that's when they play the "but I did x for you, y for you, and z!" - funny how their memory improves when it needs to.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What about the obvious reality which you're missing out?

Women get messaged every single day on Facebook by men who want to fuck them. Or men who used to be friends, act nice, and then try to fuck them.

[–]systemshock869 3 points3 points [recovered]

I mean come on though, who wants their partners hanging out one-on-one with old high school friends of the opposite sex? I don't disagree with your statement, but that group did exactly what they should do as respectable mates. The fact that the rest of them hit on you when that never happened in high school, and didn't reference your old friendship at all, is what speaks to your point IMO.

[–]GC0W30 2 points3 points  (7 children)

I mean come on though, who wants their partners hanging out one-on-one with old high school friends of the opposite sex?

Folks who want them to leave.... for 5 years of my marriage I would have been glad to sell a bitch off to any dude who wanted to steal her.

[–]systemshock869 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Lol I do understand that. My ex wife constantly disrespected me by hanging out with dudes from her class/work/etc. but I never had proof that she actually cheated on me. I used to fantasize that she would cheat just so I could have some certainty and know where I stood. Now I understand that I need to stand on my own and not follow her lead. Following them always leads to disaster.

[–]GC0W30 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I had a lazy fat one; she would wake up when I was about to get off work and then go to sleep with me around 2 AM.

I checked her phone and her computer, hoping she was cheating or on drugs. .. something I could leave her or send her to treatment for. ..... something.

Nope. Just sleep. Lamest thing ever. Didn't get lame and useless until 45 days after the wedding.

[–]systemshock869 0 points1 point  (4 children)

How long did you know her/date/engage before hand? It amazes me how long some women can keep up the facade. Though in my case it was a shotgun wedding in a lot of ways.. Live and learn >.<

[–]GC0W30 0 points1 point  (3 children)

3 years. She was my weekday girlfriend for 4 months; my real girlfriend would see me on the weekend only. After the 4 months I spent two months with only my weekend girlfriend, then dumped her and made my my weekday girlfriend my full-time girlfriend. Wifed her like 2.5 years after that.

The only thing she never stopped doing was fucking me, but she got fat as fuck after a while. 5'3" and 360.

[–]daprospecta 0 points1 point  (2 children)

5'3 360? Damn. She has lost all hope.

[–]GC0W30 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Eh, gastric bypass followed by a divorce. She got down to 170 before getting pregnant.

Now she has the ultimate excuse to be a lazy piece of shit. So far she hasn't abandoned the kid, so there is at least one horrible thing she hasn't done yet.

[–]kevlarut -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Down voted for use of the word "partner."

[–]makethemwant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Correct. Women only notice us if they are attracted to us or want something from us. Hence the whole "all guys are assholes" line.

[–]-Awake- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's still nice to see the data point expressed, even if it's not something revolutionary. I appreciate you typing this up, it's beneficial to us all

"If a woman is showing interest in you outside of a workplace setting, then on some level, she wants something from you. If Alpha, probably your dick. If Beta, probably your emotional counsel or your money."

I couldn't have said it better myself. This should be appended to Briffault's Law in every mention

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)


What is this?

[–]whataboutudummy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who would want to see you if they didn't want your attention?

[–]redpillthrower 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure i agree with this idea about men. People you have closer relationships with this becomes more and more true, up till you are great friends. 99% of the people you meet in your life only care about what they can get from you, especially in regards to your talents or things you produce.

[–]absoluteskeptic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem here is you are talking about people you haven't seen and not been in contact with for years. If you had maintained the relationships, then those women would've been happy to meet up (assuming it wasn't for sex).

I've got several platonic female friends who I've meet over the years. We did have specific hobbies or experiences together in the past, more like experiences I've had with male friends. These weren't just college drinking buddies or coworkers I sometimes met outside work.

In addition, people change and they change a lot over a long time. At 42 I'd probably hangout with my 30 year old self, or even 20 year old self... but my perspective on life is much different. Having a kid, job responsibilities, making and losing lots of money in the stock market, having a wife, etc...

Finally, I'm older now and know (for the most part) what I like or not. My time is more limited, or at least I'm more inclined to make good use of my time. Meeting up with friends from 10 or 20 years ago for the most part is a waste of time, unless a have a specific reason. These people are essentially strangers after that length of time. It would be fun to meet them by accident, but I'd rather spend my time with people who have wanted to stay in touch over the years, that's a real friendship.

[–]deville05 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But thats also because men aren't looking to fuck you. Their worth to you IS based on what they can get from you too.. Like having a good time with some company. Trust me, if you were boring company or if the men felt like they have to give more than they can get ftom you, they wouldnt meet you either.

[–]Nespos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really solid post. We need to be sure though that we can distinguish a woman who is interested only in having an errand boy and a woman who is asking for favors as a means to flirt. Women very commonly will do the latter. "Can you come pick me up?", "I need help with a computer thing.", "Can you help me move some stuff?"--all could be excuses to see/talk/express a desire for a guy she's interested in. It's completely outside our approach as men, obviously--if we ask someone for a ride then that's exactly our intention--but if it's a very cookie-cutter, sudden, "guy job" request, there's a fair chance it's flirtation. As always, if you are confident that a woman wouldn't get the "beta tool" vibe from you, then you should lean towards assuming attraction in these cases. And know that declining these requests won't diminish her attraction to you if it's there.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I usually just lurk and laugh since these posts are fucking hilarious and sadly, sometimes, true, but it's the same for guys really. Women don't exist for us if we don't want something.

Tbh if I could design a robot to cook, suck my dick and bend over the table, I'd never even think about getting a girlfriend... I wouldn't see a use to one.

[–]thereddespair 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Men, women, any human.

People will behave differently only because of social constraints. Full freedom without social backlash?

Men will treat you no different, dont be too naive and trust men to be any better, any human for that matter.

It is just a difference in tactics and nurturing strategies

[–]CUNTRY 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with what you've written but... I have to admit something...

If I don't find a woman attractive - I have no use for her either.

It is what it is.

[–]aazav 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The see their clock ticking, they see their own expiration date and they relentlessly jump at perceived opportunity to remedy that.

[–]Kardlonoc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its real simple economics: If you have something of value to a person you become in demand. If you don't have anything of value there is reason to talk to you.

There is likely people you don't value in your life and really there is no reason to talk to them but perhaps out of charity or social networking.

As long a woman looks good she is always in demand. She has her pick about what meets that demand the best. A lot of men on the other hand don't really understand why people don't talk to them. They get frurated about it as well but the reality is they don't really know the value game. Women don't understand it either but they don't need to.

Players understand the value game and thats how they get women. Its a brutal truth that you simply can't be just your charming self. You need offer value, you need to put something on the table like a trade or deal.

This seems like a dumb concept but its really not so obvious because the question of "why?" is asked a lot with men about women and social relationships.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It gets better when they DEMAND shit from you. Even after they make clear you'll never have sex. I've had multiple women pull this shit on me and it genuinely infuriates me.

[–]babybelly 0 points1 point  (0 children)

who are we kidding. we often die in each others eye the moment someone says something we think is controversial

[–]exbp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm surprised you had no married takers with your offer. Maybe it's that you're only 31 and the wives are not frustrated enough with the men they settled for (and are currently beta-fying even more). By 35-45 I bet the same experiment will get most of the married ones as well.

[–]yummyluckycharms 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"In 100% of cases, women who were happily married, just had kids (I'm 31), engaged or in a relationship with a high value male either didn't even respond, or politely declined my offer to meet up."

This is how it should be actually. I dont think any high SMV male would tolerate if their chick went out drinking with another man.

[–]zephyrprime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's so weird how much women objectify men and yet it is men who get blamed for this. I've just been dealing with women recently where I'm worried about showing too much interest because I know doing so will cause them to lose interest in me. If they actually were interested in me for any fricken personality reasons or even my body, they wouldn't lose interest as soon as I showed too much interest. It's just so hard to wrap my head around a creature that chases after what they can't have because they can't have it.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Guys will do you favors. Women won't.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Men will evaluate your worth by your character, women will evaluate your worth by your utility.

Agreed with everything you wrote up to this point. When it comes to women all that matters is whether they are willing to engage in sex or not. If they are old, ugly, fat, prude, in a strong monogamous relationship, pregnant, diseased, then they are useless because sex isn't desirable or out of the question. If they are young, perky, beautiful, available, horny, slutty, and clean, they have my attention.

Just as men are a utility resource to women, women are a sex resource to men. Or at least, that's how it should be.

A woman has never been a proper friend, confidant, counselor, project partner, or useful really for anything beyond the sexual to me. Even if she is OK at something mundane like conversation, I always have better conversations with men. Help you move to a new apartment? Fuck no. Women are useless for practical things. But they corner the market on opening their legs.

[–]watersign -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Female solispism at it's finest. They do not care about anyone but themselves.

[–]Aspiring_Hobo -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Even when women want something from you, you onky exist as that thing they want from you (when it's not sexual).

You exist to her as much as a lamp exists to us. It has no sentience or significance outside of what we want it to do for us. Women are neither born nor taught to be providers for anyone (including themselves) so they lack any semblance of empathy or concern for anything outside of their own being

[–]NeoreactionSafe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The question is not whether women want something from you.

The question is WHAT does she do in order to get things from you.

If she attempts to manipulate you she must know you. In order to hide her manipulation she must wear the mask of Charm.

The fun between men and women is how women use Charm to seek their goals and men use Amused Mastery to defend themselves from the woman's Charm.

It's the interplay between these "acts of war" that stirs feelings and makes it exciting.

[–]BlackHeart89 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't see anything wrong with this. People just need to realize that women aren't angels. They're human.

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