Blue Pill ExampleThe ultimate shit test: withholding sex (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana

If you're in any sort of sexual relationship with a woman, one of the ultimate shit tests she can give you (short of threatening you/herself/others with harm) is withholding sex. She wants to see how much power she has over you and how much you will grovel for sexual access. The irony is that the more you grovel and supplicate, the less likely it is that you'll be having sex with her.

If you are spinning plates, the test is easy to pass - soft next her, go radio silent and move on to your other plates. In a LTR where you're living together, the test is much more difficult and passing the test usually involves more time and effort on yourself and withholding time/affection beyond what is needed to manage the kids and household.

Here's an illustrative example from my favorite "don't be that guy" sub, /r/deadbedrooms:

Before I threatened with divorce, our sex life was dead as a parrot. We had sex a few times a year. I felt miserable.

This was 4 months ago. Now we have sex once or twice a week.

Dread game works.

The other day, right after sex actually, I asked her how she could change like that overnight, and her explanation was that she "changed her mindset". That sounded so simple, so I asked her why she didn't do it earlier. I had tried to talk about our dead bedroom several times; sometimes whining, sometimes joking, sometimes dead serious, and the only effect was that she got defensive and angry. Up until that time when I said that I wanted a divorce. Only then she bothered to change. Her explanation made me feel cold and empty inside: She wanted to test how far she could go.

She's basically saying, "I was shit testing you" in non-TRP terminology.

Note that she knew exactly how unhappy he was with the lack of sex and yet she refused to change until he passed her test.

I naturally asked her how she could treat me like that, willfully withholding sex even though she know how much it was hurting me. She tried playing it down and explaining it differently, but I do think that she was actually withholding sex as a test. Testing what? How strong my love was to not leave her anyway? My assertiveness, to see how much shit I can put up with before I take measures? I don't know, but at least I now know that she wasn't withholding sex because she didn't understand how important it was for me.

Here the guy describes the purpose of a shit-test and how to respond to it using non-TRP terminology.

Takeaways from this story:

  • The more your relationship resembles a LTR/marriage, the more important it is to pass shit tests.
  • In an exclusive LTR, withholding sex is a very serious shit test.
  • Your life as a man can become really miserable without basic knowledge such as passing shit tests and dread game.
  • Men who go through this sort of misery eventually start to come to TRP conclusions after they've suffered enough abuse.
  • When men like this discover TRP, they become fervent converts because they are seeing the truths in their lives confirmed and the lies exposed.

[–][deleted] 353 points354 points  (45 children)

I actually went through this a few years ago with my current LTR. She was pissed about something stupid.

Her: well maybe you just won't get sex for a month.

me: yes I will

Her: ummmm, well it won't be with me

Me: maybe not, but I'll still get sex this month.

So that threat lasted about 20 minutes

Edit: wow, more questions then I expected.

Just to clarify, seen comments about her calling my "bluff", I was not bluffing. I was a cocky bike rider and I was quite frankly surprised she even went there. she said she would dump me if I cheated and I just laughed and told her to do what she needed to do. After I laughed she didn't speak at all. There has not been another "test" like that ever since.

It saddens me that this even happens to guys, specially you young guys. If a girl has a medical issue that's one thing, but don't let a someone control you by dangling a carrot (pussy) in front of your face. Being single is better then being made into someones bitch. No dread game, no bluffs, make it very clear what you will and will not tolerate and walk away if need be

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 94 points95 points  (5 children)

I used to get "you're not getting any tonight". Delivered as a pretend-joke in front of other people. I look at the time... say "yeah I will..... bars are still open".

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Interesting how these fellows want to talk about how disrespected you were... when it's literally the most common shit in the world for a girl in a relationship to say. Makes me wonder how they managed to miss out on that very common experience, and I'm thinking it ain't 'cause they're "so alpha."

Your response is of course perfect. I've used much the same in similar situations (oh no, I must be a beta who let a girl disrespect me!), and it is exactly what she is looking for - not only personal assurance she is not dating a guy without options, but public assurance of that, just like her shit test was a public affirmation that she normally is fucking you, which is a public mark of respect. By her shit test and your response, she has engineered the situation to show everyone around how high value you are, and it does nothing but raise you value in the eyes of onlookers.

Of course, you already knew that.

[–]copralalic 26 points27 points  (1 child)

She's still disrespecting you in public. I would not be cool with that, personally.

[–]fentrix2 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It's always better to let it roll off your back in public and then deal with it privately.

[–]laere 184 points185 points  (1 child)

Abundance mentality destroys shit tests like nukes destroy cities.

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (0 children)

/r/relationships and other sources of BP relationship advice bitch a lot about the universal advice of "Is she a bitch? Drop her ass." But that's damn good advice. If a relationship is bringing you more difficulty than rewards, then drop it. No chick is worth that bullshit.

[–]Manuel_S 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Never deny, never admit, agree and amplify, play with it, tell outrageous lies that are obviously lies, look comically sad when she doesn't believe, the works.

NEVER DENY - that sounds like a justification, removes your threat.

NEVER ADMIT - you explained yourself (BAD! STUPID) plus also you give a hard, open target where she can unleash.


Like with dogs, if you show no fear of consequence - even face off to it - then she becomes afraid to go further. I think its an old and primal reaction. If something is not afraid of you, then it knows more about the situation than you do, and its time for you yourself to be afraid.

[–]thedude122487 61 points62 points  (0 children)

That story was so incredibly satisfying to read.

[–][deleted] 21 points21 points

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[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Lol, honestly I never had a game plan back then (probably 5 years ago). I was just a cocky biker that didn't think things through, and basically didn't care. Being single has never scared me.

She pouted for a few minutes, changed the subject, then gave me a bj an hour later.

[–]PlanB_pedofile 21 points22 points  (1 child)

My ltr tried that and even wanted to call my bluff. So I said "I'm hanging out after work with Jenny" "who's jenny?" "A coworker in our group I eat lunch with. She also works weekends down at the bar."

Jenny is a full on lesbian. Met up with her while bartending. Hooked up with some great drinks. Went radio silent and home to 40 missed calls and a sobbing apologetic girlfriend. Pretty much told her that if she wants to be a bitch, she can be a bitch all she wants while I find more pleasant company to be with.

I hated using dread but damn effective.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Well, I wasn't bluffing. Back then I had two bikes, a vette, and was in shape. Honestly I'm surprised she even said it. Her face when I started laughing was priceless

[–]enkae7317 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yep this was basically the exchange that went down between me and her too.

She was basically like "no sex unless this and that blah blah"

I literally laughed in her face and told her I was going to get some regardless.

She never did that again.

[–]ReddishTablet 12 points13 points  (10 children)

Women who use sex a weapon in relationship is one of my worse fears in my mind. It doesn't seem fair in a way but as said if she withholds sex you can withhold time/affection for her.

Would like to keep this in my mind for if it ever comes up for me... Would it also be good to point out that she is using 'sex as a weapon' in the relationship and you won't deal with that shit? Or should you just leave that out of it?

Pretty much you said with added, "If you're using sex as a weapon while we are in a relationship you can get out right now, I do not want a relationship like that."

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 44 points45 points  (1 child)

Would it also be good to point out that she is using 'sex as a weapon' in the relationship and you won't deal with that shit?

No. You'll find your words to be meaningless. Never discuss this with a woman. She will not even agree to what is happening. She'll say "it's normal to not want sex all the time". You cannot negotiate desire (read the sidebar).

She'll pretend she's not using sex as a weapon in order to avoid controntation. She'll just be "not in the mood tonight". Or the next night. You will not win this discussion. At best she'll be calling your bluff.

Once this starts you have to take positive action towards increasing your other options, and getting other options. Plan your escape. Once it starts it just gets worse, and you have to figure this is not a woman you want to be with any more anyway.

It happens. It happens in every LTR. It is why women are not suitable for monogamy.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 19 points20 points  (0 children)

No need to point out what she's doing. She already knows how it.

Just demonstrate that you're confident in your ability to get sex elsewhere. When she realizes that her only weapon has been taken from her, she'll shape up quick to win you back.

An important note: once a woman overtly uses the threat of withholding sex, you demote her to a plate forevermore (if she isn't already) and start looking for a replacement.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (1 child)

Would it also be good to point out that she is using 'sex as a weapon' in the relationship and you won't deal with that shit?

You cannot negotiate desire: Negotiated desire only ever leads to obligated compliance. This is why her post-negotiation sexual response is often so lackluster and the source of even further frustration on his part. She may be more sexually available to him, but the half-hearted experience is never the same as when they first met when there was no negotiation, just spontaneous desire for each other.

By attempting such a negotiation you're showing her that you don't "just get it", further drying out her drawers. If your goal is to get her to want to fuck you this is dread game time.

[–]_the_shape_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Which is why marriage is an incredibly risky (some would say downright retarded or suicidal) proposition

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Nah, to complicated. Once you start explaining in detail you draw yourself into an argument, and women are better at arguing. Keep it simple, set a solid boundary. She can figure out if she wants to test it or not

[–]PlanB_pedofile 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't let it be a fear but more of an expectation. Be sure to have abundance and backup plans.

Not getting sex tonight? Go out for some fresh air and show her you have alternatives and they all don't involve her.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's the rule: I don't get any sex? Well, no emotional-availability soup for you!

[–]OneTouchHowMuch 10 points11 points  (6 children)

I would instantly downgrade this LTR once she goes here. Is that too harsh?

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 43 points44 points  (1 child)

Is that too harsh?

Not at all. She's prepared to hurt you and destroy the foundation of the relationship, she is not worth being exclusive to.

Monogamy comes with responsibilities. Without those responsibilities she is behaving like FWB. So she becomes FWB.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Bam, you got it.

Bitches are cheap. When one threatens you, she's overplayed her hand.

If bitches really were as strong as they think, they wouldn't try so hard to dress nice, to impress us, or to believe that we're all rapists who want to ravish them without warning.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

What if you had said, "I don't care" instead?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Because I did care. I wasn't going to let someone control me like a puppet with a pussy. I wasn't bluffing, that's exactly what I would've done. My ex from college learned that the hard way

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Do you think you'd be better off if you didn't care? Or at least not letting her know you care?

[–]femmefatale1 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Look, you aren't going to convince a woman that you don't care about sex. It just won't work.

The best you can do is convince her you don't need sex from her.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn't care if she left me. I cared about her trying to control me with sex. I just don't play that game, no man should over something petty. Sex isn't worth being made into a bitch.

[–][deleted] 188 points188 points

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[–][deleted] 96 points97 points  (3 children)

It might have been Confucius who also said: If you want to keep your husband, keep his stomach full and his balls empty.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

i know it's just a joke, but it reflects a western way of thinking that we don't even realize, which leads to a lot of shit like OP quoted.

woman don't keep man in the house nor the dog house. the man keeps himself in whichever, or allows himself to be kept in one. sadly most guys have the "oh dude lol im in the doghouse and sleeping on the couch today i forgot our anniversary"

nah, youre in the bitchhouse, cause you're her bitch.

[–][deleted] 50 points50 points

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[–]thedude122487 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's really just realizing that you're being put in a situation where you're about to get fucked around if you don't put your foot down.

[–]1RBuddDwyer 92 points93 points  (17 children)

When faced with losing her provisioning and support she finally puts out. It's like we talked about a few days ago:

When a woman says "I love you", what she means is "I need you". When a man says "I love you", he means "I am firmly committed to you".

[–]RPSigmaStigma 14 points15 points  (15 children)

Yep. Love flows down, charm (sex, etc) flows up.

[–]Asoka11111 11 points11 points [recovered]

I don't understand what this means and I've been seeing it appear more frequently in recent posts.

[–]1oldredder 10 points11 points  (7 children)

neoreactionsafe is over-using it, it's getting boring already.

[–]Kill_Your_Ego 17 points18 points  (4 children)

The hierarchy of love. Women love children. Men love women and children. God loves men, women, and children. Women honor and obey their husbands while men love their wives.

Recently it seems that people are asserting that women should charm their husbands while their husbands love them. Sounds like a good idea.

No ma'am had some good stuff about that on the blog. Also has the book of pook and other good stuff:


[–]trpMilo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I like the word "respect" more than "charm" in this context.

[–]1Soarinc 2 points3 points  (0 children)

On behalf of all the lurkers in this community--Thank you for this info!

[–]cariboo_j 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The reality is much colder; there's not much evidence that God exists (or if he does, that he takes any interest in human affairs). Men are on their own.

[–]Moldy_Gecko 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That wasn't the point. He included god as a reference for meaning, whether people believe it exists or not.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It means a woman wants a man above her smv, and the man needs to feel he is the captain of the relationship and she is along for the ride.

[–]cR3dd1t 103 points104 points  (17 children)

My wife withdrew sex one day. She just didn't let me touch her. The reason was that I didn't like that she and her brother made fun of me. That was rude and I made my displeasure clear to her. Her reaction, simply withdraw sex. Now, I am not a great badass, but I am not bad either. After my first attempt got a rebuff, I didn't touch her at all. Didn't even look at her. Didn't take her out for dinner or for any outing. And after a week, she got horny. Very horny. And literally begged to fuck her. And I did. But I took my sweet time to warm up.

[–]waitfor_ittt 57 points58 points  (10 children)

Ahhh you stuck up for yourself to her and her brother, she didn't like that, tried to betafy you down a notch by withholding sex, and you beat her at her own game. Shit test destroyed.

[–]Endorsed ContributorObio1 69 points70 points  (9 children)

Always make it clear that men get sex one way or another.

Not going to be at home? Okay.

But much more importantly: It must be very firmly established that your desire for sex with her is not guaranteed.

Creating desire is her job. So many women live in a fantasy world in which they think men will (for some reason or other) always want to fuck them -- despite their sagging body. It must be clearly spelled out that creating attraction requires effort on her part.

The most common shit test of all is: "Do you still think I'm sexy?"

The world's worst answer to that question is : "Yes".

Do NOT go there. It's the easy way out, but it's ultimately just a license for her to behave however she wants.

Much better to tell her that she can be sexy sometimes. And leave it at that.

If she shit-tests again with "What? Not all the time?"... Just laugh at her.

[–][deleted] 24 points24 points

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[–]Hydris 27 points28 points  (0 children)

One of my old girlfriends got pissy and tried to withhold sex. Her attitude changed when we went out to the bar to play pool and she realized other women were flirting with me.

Being reminded that I can replace you kind of puts a damper on your plan now doesn't it.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It must also be firmly established that she is not the only vagina in town.

I flat told my second wife that she doesn't have the power to cut me off unless she has the only pussy in my city.

Yeah... that marriage was pretty rocky.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Exactly. I've been asked shit like that before along the lines of "Will you still like me if I get fat?" Which is an easy question - hell no. Your girl has to understand that if she gets lazy or complacent, she's gone.

[–]FattestRabbit 4 points5 points  (3 children)

What do you even say to the crazy shit like "would you still love me if I lost a leg?"

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Something equally crazy like "Yeah but you better buy some lube so I can put your stump in my ass." You can't respond to irrational questions with logic, doesn't do any good.

[–]iamaguythrowaway 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I am into that. My prostate needs some loving too. No homo.

[–]jaysire 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Wow, I had this same experience, but it was with my wife and our son. My wife kept joking with him (he's five) that I'm dumb for not knowing some character from a kid's show. It's fine once, even twice, but when it happened the third time during one meal I stopped finding it amusing and after a while she asked me whether I was upset. I told her and of course her reaction was to get mad at me. I just asked her "on what fucking planet is your reaction considered normal?" and she went to bed without a word. The next morning she sheepishly came to me and apologised.

If TRP has taught me one thing, it's that women often construct shit tests out of reversing anger. Basically "I hurt you in some way, you got mad and now I'll turn that around and get mad back at you to see how you cope". It's a devious shit test, because it defies all logic.

[–]asksstupidquesti0ns 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Honest question. Ok I understand that you started ignoring her etc. after she threatened to withdraw sex and this worked out in your favour. But this can also go the other way right? What if she were to start banging someone else, call an orbiter or something? What does one do then? Leave her n move on?

[–]Yespleasexx 63 points64 points  (15 children)

My wife does this a couple times a year. As soon as I know she is giving me this shit test I straight up tell her we are having sex tonight. This forces her to say yes or no, and she can't build up the excuse list as the night goes on. If she says no then I just happily say okay I am going to make other plans then. I start limiting conversations to children related topics only, going to the gym in the evening. Continue to tell her we are going to do this tonight and if she continues to say no, make sure I show that it makes absolutely no fucking difference to me what so ever. This usually only last a couple days but on the odd occasion that it last longer there is always one final withdraw shit test.

She has a friend who has not had sex with her husband since there 4 y/o twins were born. She will calmly says something like "you know most couples don't have sex every couple days... Maggie has not had sex in almost 5 years with her husband..." My response is always the same. " I feel sorry for maggies husband... If i was in that situation I would have filed divorce papers after 6 months... It's a good thing we are not in that type of relationship" Then I will usually walk out of the room and leave the house.. go to the gym, bar, golf course. There has never been a single instance this has happened that the night didn't end with my dick in her mouth.

[–]TempusRerumImperator 27 points28 points  (3 children)

When i grow up i wanna be just like you. Im being serious.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Except without the marriage

[–]RealRational 12 points13 points  (9 children)

Maggie has not had sex in almost 5 years with her husband

I would love to hear her rationalization on this. "Do you think that's a good thing?" "Do you think that's healthy in a relationship?" "Are you saying that you want that to be us?"

Idk man, you've clearly decided otherwise, but I would never have the patience for that crap, after this happened one time I'd have the divorce papers filed with all my assets in protected accounts.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I would like to hear HIS rationalization on this

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 6 points7 points  (5 children)

The guys I know in this situation want to keep their children.

[–]RealRational 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Ah yes, I do almost always fail to consider that variable. For me the world is still far too hostile and chaotic to even consider bringing additional life into it; still far too much to be done before the time is right for that.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, you can have an epiphany later and say you put your bad boy ways behind you ;)

[–]Yespleasexx 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don't need to hear her rationalization of this.. She knows just as well as I do what the answers are. We don't have that kind of relationship and never will. I have told her in no uncertain terms that is not a marriage that I am interested in participating in. and to this point have not.

[–]bat_mayn 54 points55 points  (8 children)

Using sex as a weapon is spousal abuse. There really isn't anything else to say beyond that. The spouse isn't entitled to sex, but if their partner is intentionally withholding it to control or manipulate their spouse, it's abuse.

No man should just accept being manipulated like that, period. Just walk away.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Yes it's abuse.

Everyone knows this. She knows this. You know this.

But it makes not one jot of difference.

[–]brotherjustincrowe 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately divorce courts and SJW femicunt trial lawyers don't agree.

[–]DexterousRichard 6 points7 points  (5 children)

No, not in my case.

I have not had sex with my wife in years because she is too fat and has been too much of a bitch. That's not abuse, but a natural consequence of her letting herself become massively fat.

Once she gets back in shape and is nice, it will resume. I have had sex with other people instead. Although I haven't told her about it, she sort of knows, at least subconsciously. At various times she's said I should find someone else and she doesn't care, or that it's fine as long as she doesn't know about it. I haven't divorced yet because of the kids and because I hoped she would fix her issues.

Finally after three years of shit testing and hell bitch, she is dieting and working out and taking enough drugs to be nicer most of the time. Once she is fuckable again I think it will do wonders for her mood, but I'm not going to fuck her until I want to fuck her.

[–]kevkos 8 points9 points  (2 children)

What in the world is the point of being married to this lady?

[–]hikari-boulders 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Probably it's best for the kids. Can understand it somehow, although I don't have kids of my own.

[–]denmaur 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's better than giving her half your stuff and paying child support.

[–]CryptoOrchid 5 points6 points  (1 child)

You are a patient man. I'm not positive as to why the downvote either. You let things go in the past, but are trying to correct it now.

I hope your situation gets better.

[–]DexterousRichard 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I actually didn't really let things go, but I didn't know how to fix them in the beginning.

Screaming at her didn't work, and many other things I tried didn't work either. After I found RP, I had a choice. Divorce her or try to change the dynamic. I chose the latter because of my kids. But in the meantime, I fucked many other women. I decided that when things became too bad for the kids or it was clear that she would never improve, I would get a divorce.

See, her ultimate shit test is saying she doesn't care and I should just divorce her. But it's actually bullshit. I had to tell her that I would divorce her if she crossed certain lines (which I meant 100%), but I also wouldn't fuck her or return to a normal relationship until she lost weight and stopped being a bitch. Btw, I control the money, I come and go as I please.

It took a long time, but by being consistent and not showing betaness about sex, she is finally working to lose weight and trying to be reasonable. I don't know if it will work out, but I can always get divorced.

[–]anjkh 17 points18 points  (5 children)

Recently a FWB and I were getting into it, and she suddenly dropped a "I can't do this anymore without a compromise". She's approaching the wall, so I understood the message, chuckled at her and got off her. "Compromise? I hear that's a boring town. I'm going to (my town)". Put on shirt, giggle on the way out and hear hamster yelling at my back. Laugh off shit test, call another plate, life goes on.

[–]Frankly_George 2 points2 points [recovered]

Recently a FWB and I were getting into it, and she suddenly dropped a "I can't do this anymore without a compromise". She's approaching the wall, so I understood the message, chuckled at her and got off her. "Compromise? I hear that's a boring town. I'm going to (my town)". Put on shirt, giggle on the way out and hear hamster yelling at my back. Laugh off shit test, call another plate, life goes on.

Quoting this in full because the typo is hilarious considering the context this is in. I assume you actually meant commitment--but for a man commitment so openly one-sided is definitely compromise. I'm glad you noped right the fuck out of there. Compromise is definitely the most boring town there is!

[–]anjkh 1 point2 points  (1 child)

She actually said "compromise" in our native language (spanish), so I guess the word sounds a lot heavier on english speakers. Anyway, same warning sign!

[–]1DRMMR76 155 points156 points  (49 children)

Note that she knew exactly how unhappy he was with the lack of sex and yet she refused to change until he passed her test.

This is another reason to never get married. Forget the divorce rape, lawyers, alimony, child support, etc.

Her vows are a lie. Whoever you already married, are thinking about marrying, or that "unicorn" you haven't even met yet who you'll end up thinking is different. Her vows were or will be lies. She will knowingly and deliberately subject you to anguish, misery, and stress in order to achieve some made up goal in her head. It doesn't matter what that goal is, how important it really is, or even how easily you can pass the test. The only fact you really need to concern yourself with is that she did or will pledge to not do that and yet does or will do it anyways. Because her vows are a lie.

If they have no moral problem constantly putting a man through pain in some never ending quest to ask "how can I depend on you to be there for me?" I have no moral problem with answering "I won't be. You don't deserve it.". Some of you might think that because they are genetically disposed to seek out the strongest mate, that shit testing is just fine and dandy and that our only issue with it should be passing. That we're all just apes following our ape brains and that things like ethics, morals, right and wrong are all pointless contrivances. Well I disagree. Shit testing, especially in the context of marriage, can very often be downright unethical, cruel, and even evil. The shit testing described in OP's post falls into this category. What if the husband would have fallen into depression and killed himself? What of her vows? What of all the so-called love she claimed she had for him? She tortured him. Plain and simple. She knowingly induced pain with callous and wanton disregard for him in any way, in complete opposition to her vows and her own so-called humanity. That's wrong. There is a such thing as right and wrong, and what she did was wrong. Period.

The woman who deserves marriage is the woman who can match your ethics with ethics of her own. Meaning the woman who deserves marriage is the woman who doesn't shit test. And as we all know, that woman is a make believe creature known as a unicorn. Don't get married.

[–]RPSigmaStigma 77 points78 points  (4 children)

So much this. Shit testing is an important thing early in a relationship, but a quality woman will cut back on it as you continue to prove yourself. A woman who constantly shit tests you no matter how long you've been together or how many you pass, is a broken woman with a short term emotional memory. A woman like that is a validation black hole. And the unfortunate reality for us in the modern western world is that the vast majority of women are like that. We've created whole generations of narcissistic women who have no conscience or empathy.

[–]couchpotatocarl 17 points18 points  (3 children)

Most experienced girls shit test you throughout but will settle for what they think is a beta. Inexperienced girls shit tests die down pretty quick if you passed the others but if they settle for a beta, they completely destroy the guy if they are stuck with him. This is a rule from what I've noticed.

Experienced girls learn they can't tie down #1 with sex and settle for #2+ with resignation. If they actually tie down an alpha, the shit test throughout the entire relationship because of relationship disasters with previous alphas.

Inexperienced girls still think they have a shot with #1 offering their sex, and resent their beta partner. All inexperienced girls I've known have one guy they've been pining over for yeeears and if she's settling for beta the running joke in her social circle is her crush on Mr. Alpha. If an inexperienced girl ties down an alpha however, barely any shit tests. They are not as insecure (pretty sure the cc takes a lot out of a girls soul), don't have previous baggage, and don't need to shit test constantly for alpha affirmation.

Inexperienced girls do mistake beta for alpha a lot more frequently though. Or maybe they don't have as jaded of standards.

tldr: CCrider marries alpha= shit tests, marries beta=shit tests (higher standards for alpha)

Virgin marries alpha=less shit tests, marries beta=more shit tests

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 15 points16 points  (2 children)

if they settle for a beta, they completely destroy the guy if they are stuck with him.

It is even worse than that. They take a mostly Alpha guy and commit to one thing- doing everything in their power to make the guy Beta. THEN they destroy them.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

a guy who is actually alpha won't get destroyed by something that trivial. What they do is take guys who are fronting, and then break them down and let their inner bitchassness come out.

but if they find a guy who is actually alpha, they usually just commit to following him. everything they want to do is to please him and make him happy with her, and she actually will monitor what she does to not upset him and get herself rejected.

if they do try to just 'break down' a guy who is actually alpha, not only will it not really work, but she'll start to lose his attraction to her, and thereby lowering her perceived self-worth, which will stop her behavior

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This doesn't happen overnight. The betafication process of marriage takes years and women will patiently wait it out in order to strike at your weakest moment. Very few men are "Alpha" enough to withstand the drip-drip-drip of betafication. She will strike at the lowest moments. When your mother dies. When the first and the second baby comes. Each moment she will probe and search for weakness and without moral support, almost no man is strong enough.

[–]zulhadm 18 points19 points  (26 children)

But what if I want kids? Should I just adopt?

[–]TomSachs 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Live your own life and come to your own conclusions about marriage. Don't decide against or for something based off of some guys on the internets opinion. Educate yourself about the realities of marriage and then see if that is something you believe you can deal with. It isn't as black and white as it is made out to be on this.

[–]jdoe5 7 points7 points [recovered]

This will be an unpopular opinion but I think there's a lot of fear mongering on here about marriage. If things like having kids, being able to file jointly, etc. etc. are worth the potential risks of marriage to you, then it could work great for you.

[–]buttholette 4 points5 points  (1 child)

There may also be more than a handful of religious guys reading this... and as we all probably are aware, marriage is an arrangement thumbsed-up by God when done properly

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you find a girl who you could see yourself having kids with, then you're already set. Marriage would only complicate things.

[–]magus678 31 points32 points  (2 children)

I suspect this wiIl be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's a great idea.

There are a lot of kids already out there who could use a good man in their life.

I will also say though, it will probably be tough to adopt as a single man.

[–]kranos33 8 points9 points  (1 child)

You become a genetic dead end though.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 15 points16 points  (12 children)

You don't actually have to marry a woman to get her pregnant.

[–]HardBounce 5 points5 points [recovered]

I really need to move away from California. I can't even live with a women with out establishing a common law marriage

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

As far as I know, CA doesn't recognize common law marriage unless it was formed under the laws while IN another state. To become married in CA, you have to go through the formal legal process.

[–]RealRational 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree with Tom. But that advice is given in this sub because it's a GREAT rule of thumb. If you can't figure out how and exactly why marriage is dangerous you should never attempt it. But if nothing else, let that constant reminder of "don't get married" be a flashing warning light reminding you to take it so slow it feels like you aren't moving at all.

Frankly, if you can't establish a frame with a woman that shit tests will not be tolerated, she should never be anything more than a plate. It needs to be understood, ONE shit test, and you're gone bitch. You can't accomplish this with words, and so it cannot be taught with words.

Which is why the words we give you are "Do not get married".

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana[S] 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Well said.

This is another reason to never get married. Forget the divorce rape, lawyers, alimony, child support, etc.

It's all part of the big equation. The legal punishments for divorce remove any sort of recourse that a man might have when his wife breaks her vows - while at the same time rewarding women for divorcing their husbands (with "cash and prizes" as Dalrock always put it).

This leads to a situation where, if you're legally married, you suddenly have a woman in your house that can do almost anything she feels like, and if you disagree, you lose half your salary and/or go to prison.

[–]1DRMMR76 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I was simply saying one can forget about those things for a moment, put them on the proverbial shelf so to speak. We tend to get caught up in those practical issues regarding marriage and divorce (for good reason. They can destroy your life) but I was pointing out that there are some more cerebral reasons to avoid marriage that are wholly separate from divorce rape and the like and wanted to point out that even totally ignoring those practical reasons, one still has plenty of philosophical reasons to avoid marriage.

[–]buttholette 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sad but true. Our culture has destroyed marriage... No accountability for women

[–][deleted] 18 points18 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Shit testing, especially in the context of marriage, can very often be downright unethical, cruel, and even evil.

Yes. This. It's one thing to shit test a guy you don't know in a bar... but shit testing your so-called one-true-love? It's just a power trip at someone else's expense. I've been on the receiving end of this shit (mercifully not married) and ended the relationship soon after because I just couldn't get my head around doing this to someone you say you care about.

Women wilfully do not understand they are not the only vagina in town. This needs to be spelled out to them on a regular basis in a way that they feel.

Don't get married

Marriage is immoral. The nature of women is unsuitable for marriage.

[–]RealRational 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This exactly! Very well said!

I was thinking, if OP had posted here, I would hope to see this as the top comment. Except targeted specifically at that guy telling him to start preparing for divorce, shielded bank accounts, moving assets into friends names, spinning plates. What she did broke the vows, and therefore ended the marriage. Now it's just a matter of making it official.

[–]Steve_Wiener 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great comment.

I think many people on TRP or the manosphere in general go a little too far with the evo psychology and use it as an excuse for bullshit.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 8 points9 points  (2 children)

She will knowingly and deliberately subject you to anguish, misery, and stress in order to achieve some made up goal in her head.

Regarding the bolded claim, I think you assume and assign more introspection to women than the evidence warrants.

Shit testing, especially in the context of marriage, can very often be downright unethical, cruel, and even evil.

I agree with this qualifier. Very often for sure.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 18 points19 points  (1 child)

I think you assume and assign more introspection to women than the evidence warrants.

She knows she does it.

She does it knowing what she is doing.

She does it knowing the effect it has.

I've talked to women after passing and failing their shit tests about what they said or did. They always know exactly what they are doing, and they know exactly the effect it has.

Do not credit them with a lack of introspection. They know all the facts. They know what they do. They don't know why they do it, but they sure as hell know what they are doing.

[–]buttholette 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They don't know why they do it, but they sure as hell know what they are doing.

This is true. As hard as it is for me to admit it, I know from personal experience. Don't believe the hamster! It's just the front a woman puts up.

[–]612magxl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great post, unfortunately I only have 1 unvote to give.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She can shit test me by witholding sex,it'll just get my back up and ill just get it somewhere else.best way to drive a maj into the arms of another woman.plenty willing to put out :)

[–]Linrraba 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Do you have any follow up to this dude's story? If I were him,after hearing that from her, not only i'd not enjoy sex with her anymore but i'd divorce the shit out of her.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

It’s a pretty recent post in /r/deadbedrooms so I assume the story is ongoing. He said in the discussion that he was heavily leaning towards divorce.

[–]OneTouchHowMuch 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I've insta-nexted 1 or 2 girls the second they did that to me. Something about that attitude repulses me

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 30 points31 points  (12 children)

I personally dont belive in being a victim. If she wants to play little games withholding sex thats fine. Im going to start playing my own little games. Guess what ill win every time. You know why? Because women have a far lower stress threshold then men, thats why they cry at work.

So if your wife isnt fucking you disapear on a couple of Saturday nights. Maybe meetup with some ladies. Its really your choice how far you go with this. And when shes stressed the fuck out from the game, tell her that she's the one who made you start playing.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 7 points8 points  (3 children)

thats why they cry at work.

Those are not real tears. They can be screaming and crying one second and happy as a lark the next.

[–]1ubiety 6 points7 points  (1 child)

To give credence to your statement, a female friend of mine did this exact thing. She was crying and pouty with her boyfriend trying to manipulate him into getting what she wants (diamond earrings). She worked herself up so fast I was amazed at her acting ability (this happened over the phone).

When we left to get food together, she looked perfectly fine. I called her out on it, but she completely denied it, said I "didn't know how she was feeling." Right. If she was actually upset, she wouldn't have pulled so much of a fuss and recover just as quickly.

Illustrates her manipulative nature, complete denial of that nature, and the extent she would go to cover her actions to "save face" and get what she wants. Helped me separate what she says from what she does real quickly.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I saw this once with an ex... screaming and crying at me for all the world as if she was genuinely upset. Her friend rang the bell and she laughed and hopped and skipped away like the world was full of rainbows and icecream.

Not only can you not trust their words, you can't trust that their feelings are real either.

And on a nicer but similar note: a more rational ex explained how she had to be with a strong man because she just didn't like who she turned into when she was with a weak one. ie she just couldn't help being a horrible person when given the opportunity, and it's her man's fault for letting that happen. very honest but also staggering when you think about it.

[–]Moldy_Gecko 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was an Trainer at an extremely busy restaurant for many years. One thing I can say is some of thoae tears are more real than others. Perhaps it was a built in defense mechanism to soften us males in charge, but I completely believe most of them were real.

[–]Tarnsman4Life 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Never stay with a woman who refuses you sex; unless you just split her cunt in two the previous night she had better be willing to meet your needs if she wants to maintain an LTR. My main plate is going through some "Hormonal" issues; she doesn't like taking the D when shes spotting or bleeding. But you know what? She's never even questioned sucking me off when things like that come up.

A woman who withholds sex from you because she can is not worth your time. A woman who uses denial sex as some kind of a punishment should be kicked out of your bed. I make it very clear; I am a man, a sexual being and I expect sexual release in a relationship. If your not willing to fulfill that as your part of the relationship bargain your not worth my time.

[–]chivalry_augustus 25 points25 points [recovered]

Women don't want a man for whom things are scarce, this applies to wealth, to options, to sexual access. Why are people so surprised? Can you honestly tell me that you were the guy who wanted to hang with the fat, useless slobs at school, or the guy who wants to associate with the timid, weak losers of the world, whose primary achievement in life is winning the sperm race? No disrespect intended if any of those things apply to you, I'm just saying that people are attracted to attractiveness. Ultimately, a lot of what is said here amazes me because a) it's very simple and b) despite it being simple, I was utterly blind to it before.

Be attractive, don't be unattractive really used to piss me off when people said it on here. I was like "OMG WTF" how the hell do I do that, etc. But, eventually, attractive behaviour becomes something you understand even if you don't always portray it. I tend to look at it now as - what's the worst thing that could happen to me in this situation? How would I feel if that girl started begging me for money, then tried to trick me into giving her money, then tried to seduce me into giving her money. Of course, I'd despise her weakness and want her to get the hell away from me. So, you see, not being a beggar isn't revolution, it's common sense. In fact, the whole of this sub tends to focus on common sense that I have simply ignored, or else failed to internalise, before. The question is, how did I fail to see it before?

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana[S] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Women don't want a man for whom things are scarce, this applies to wealth, to options, to sexual access.

This is a key concept in sexual selection, both in the animal kingdom and in humans.

I wrote this in another reply:

Conspicuous wealth and conspicuous muscles are both forms of excess resources that signal sexual fitness.


The main characteristic of sexually selected features is that they are expensive to maintain. Since, whether competing or attracting, only the best will do, resources get piled into them, almost regardless of the consequences. In a study just published in Evolution and Human Behavior, Dr Lassek and Dr Gaulin show that this crucial characteristic is true for men's muscles.

[–]1oldredder 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Excessive fitness is the best peacocking there is, though hat-tip to Mystery for exploiting other peacocking when it was new. Now it's much less novel its effect is a little diluted.

[–]1DRMMR76 9 points10 points  (0 children)

You were trained not to see it by movies, TV, teachers, and likely with an absence of parental teaching to steer you in the right direction.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Women don't want a man for whom things are scarce, this applies to wealth, to options, to sexual access. Why are people so surprised?

The surprise is that men expect women to behave differently after they are married. The agreement is "foresaking all others" and "be there for each other". Men honour that. Women see his scarcity mindset and are turned off by it and/or use it to their advantage.

It's a classic bait-and-switch. I don't get why men fall for it so often.

[–]absolucion 8 points9 points  (2 children)

One of my favorite double-standards in LTRs: you have to respect a woman's wish not to have sex with you but she doesn't have to respect your need to find sexual satisfaction.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 7 points8 points  (1 child)

she doesn't have to respect your need to find sexual satisfaction.

What amazes me is how many women try to pretend that a sexless relationship is a relationship. Never allow this pretense to exist even for a day.

[–]2Overkillengine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A good analogy I read once here is that one should treat sex in the context of a relationship in a manner like unto a woman writing her name on a test paper- she can have all the answers on the test itself right, but without a name on the paper...no credit.

[–]Jamtastic1 5 points5 points [recovered]

Lack of sex is actually one of the reasons I am divorcing my wife. There are other factors at play, but I just couldn't figure out how to beat her shit test (if this is actually what it is).

[–]kevkos 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Congratulations on your divorce!

[–]NeoreactionSafe 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Here's a tip...

If you are by default a person who has things that capture your interest then you are mostly busy doing what you want to do anyway.

Women Charm to gain sex access and emotional access (Love) from a man they see as above her.

In pretty much every relationship I was ever in the women were always wanting sex because they wanted access. (they felt lonely)

The Beta mistake is in wanting sex as a type of "approval".

Sex is a reward given to a woman who demonstrates Charm.

No Charm, No Sex.

Don't reward bad behaviors.

Sex validates a woman as being desirable. If she isn't Charming you shouldn't even be thinking about having sex with her. It should actually turn you off.

Betas seem to get erotic excitement by upside down situations.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

It should actually turn you off.

  So much this. Before unplugging, I was so hard up to bang my wife and when she denied, I would pout. Since RP, One of the tips of a sexless marriage was to initiate every night. Well she was such a raging cunthammer that I was just mentally turned off to having sex.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Men need Game to get that Charm out of women.

Gotta be a Player if you want women eager for sex.

(and I'm a white guy saying this)

The Love / Charm dynamic is the ideal and most will not attain it, so I'm not trying to create unrealistic expectations. We live in a world of low quality women that make no attempt to have Game and be Charming. The Feminists are telling women to act like men and have no Charm.

/r/RedPillWomen is our "opposite / complimentary" sub where women learn Game. (Charm)

Game gives benefits to either side, but ironically the best relationships are with two people with high levels of Game. It's natures version of "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."

Patriarchy actually makes Game integrated into the culture. So in a Patriarchy things are easier because correct behavior is the default. We literally must "reinvent the wheel" to have successful relationships today. Conforming to Feminism is a kind of death sentence. Red Pill represents life.

[–]southpawshuffle 3 points3 points [recovered]

Needing clarification: an accepted tactic in a sexless relationship is to initiate every now night? Totally have not heard that before.

[–]wisdom_is 12 points13 points  (1 child)

That is so harsh to know that women will intentionally make a man suffer in that way while proclaiming they love em. Makes me view men that also manipulate women in a positive light.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Men who go through this sort of misery eventually start to come to TRP conclusions after they've suffered enough abuse.

Or they blow their brains out. Or they become emotionally neutered like my father and nothing bothers them. Or they live lives of pain and desperation. Sometimes all three.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (9 children)

I think my wife is currently doing this to me, withholding sex. Background: We had a blow out two months ago and the sex dried up which led me to here and MRP. Prior to TRP, she told me to my face that she isn't withholding sex from me as punishment, she just doesn't feel like it. It made sense, she's still reeling from our fight and oh BTW, pregnant and, then, in her first trimester. Understandable-- morning sickness, soreness, etc.

  Now, she's well into her second trimester (horny phase for most women) and I was practicing some amused mastery, "So now that you're in your second trimester, are you more horny?"
The look on her face was like the cat that ate the canary. She sheepishly said, "Nope, not at all." My wife hasn't ever lied to me that I knew of before this point (she probably does, yeah, yeah, AWALT) but I could tell she was full of shit. I didn't press it, I found out her "tell" (think poker, movie Rounders) when she lies and thought that was more important.

  What I had suspected is she started masterbating again. I was out of town for a bit and her mother stayed with her. When her mother comes in town she hides her sex toy that's stored in her nightstand. When I came back her mother left had left a day prior to me arriving, so I looked and it was still there. My hamster just said, "maybe she forgot to hide it." I needed some hard evidence, so I took it upon myself to position it so if she did use it, I would know.

  So since I'm always around at night, she doesn't have the opportunity to jerk off but Saturday I was away all day. When I got back I checked the drawer. It was so obvious she used it. Like it was almost thrown haphhazardly back in from a fit of passion.

  Yep, she's withholding sex. My hamster says maybe she's getting more tingles now that I've started implementing RP/MRP. I'm still new and I have much to learn and think I'm just getting out of the anger phase of unplugging. Let's hope so, this might be a step in the right direction.

[–]1DRMMR76 22 points23 points  (5 children)

she isn't withholding sex from me as punishment, she just doesn't feel like it

This fails the Brad Pitt test. It's an obvious lie. What she meant was "I don't feel like it...with you".

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (4 children)

Yeah, I realize this now. That was pre-RP and I was pretty much the Stevie Wonder of the Matrix back then.

[–]1DRMMR76 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Gotcha, didn't mean to lecture you.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am impressed but why not take charge? Tell her we are putting the past behind us. Our baby deserves better. Blah, Blah. Then initiate hard and fuck her good. The time for words is already passed.

BTW: I encourage my wife to use the Hitachi wand. Female physiology is not the release and sudden return to not being horny that men experience. If she buzzed off, she should be even easier to arouse later.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What the fuck. Take the sex toy and throw it out, I don't care how much it cost. MRP is sometimes too soft on pregnant women. Fuck bullshit like this, your wife is outright lying/disrespecting you. Also, get a paternity test.

And stop asking your wife if she's horny. JUST FUCK HER.

[–]bigcitytruth[🍰] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

You can stop the withholding from spiraling out of control by containing it early.

When it first happens, she says for example, "I'm really tired tonight, let's just go to sleep," do NOT whine or respond like it affected you, and especially do NOT cuddle, kiss or give her any affection at all. Just say, almost cheerfully, "No problem! I'll get myself off here next to you if ya don't mind" and openly fap it while she attempts to sleep. Get really into it. Hell, even bring out a laptop and watch porn while doing it, right next to her in bed. Don't give her any attention, don't look at her or touch her while doing it. 90% of of women will get horny and "jealous" of you not giving her attention and she'll either help you finish or jump on top of you. If you do this EVERY time she denies sex, the behavior will eventually subside and she'll rarely do try it again. If she falls into the 10% camp and actually falls asleep, that's your cue to leave her place in the middle of the night. She's nexted.

[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Simple, yet brilliant. Love it. I actually wish I'd done this to my plate when I went round to hers and she told me we couldn't have sex because she had cystitis. 'Alright cool, you don't mind if I help myself out do you?' and unzip immediately without waiting for a reply.

If she falls into the 10% camp and actually falls asleep, that's your cue to leave her place in the middle of the night

...and go to a bar with your best pair of shoes and a wallet full of rubbers.

[–]bigcitytruth[🍰] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

In a medical situation like that, she'll usually give you head if you ramp up the sexual atmosphere. Put on the porn loud.

[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got a handjob so it wasn't a complete fail but I wish I'd used a comeback I later read on this sub.

  • Her: We can't have sex because period / medical reason
  • Me: Do you also have a throat infection and the shits?
  • Her: ...No, why..?

There really is no excuse for the female mindset of 'my vagina is out of action therefore no sexual acts whatsoever will occur.'

[–]foldpak111 21 points22 points  (11 children)

You don't want to have sex with me? I can walk out the door and approach the first 20 attractive women I see, ONE OF THEM WILL.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Phrase it more carefree and less effort.

"No problem... someone else will"

[–]brotherjustincrowe 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If she's pulling shit like this, it's her who's failed. Hard next. No man should have to put up with this kind of manipulative bullshit.

Unless you married her, in which case you already failed a major shit test as it is.

[–]demetrios3 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If she's withholding sex there's a good chance she's getting somewhere else.

[–]www777com 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If your woman ever offers sex as an alternative to something that she should be doing, or offers sex to get you to do something, or to manipulate you, YOU HAVE TO TURN IT DOWN.

Example: she says, "How about I just give you sex instead of buying you a present?" The correct answer is, "Fuck that, I want a present."

If you ever get the, "If you do this, I'll have sex with you." You have to turn it down.

Don't ever beg for sex. She should be begging you.

Edit: you should do this from the very beginning of your LTR. She should never think that she can control you with sex.

[–]itwasntme19 3 points4 points  (0 children)

this is why marriage and serious relationships suck. we are meant to have variety. we're only obligated to be the best version of us, and enjoy doing it. women today are very different and it's rare to find a good one to be honest. so if a girl withholds, punish her,replace her. they have to be good enough for you, not the other way around. be demanding of them and they will never try to pull something as retarded like that.

[–]Roughknot 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I was in a similar place as the poster from /r/deadbedrooms

After lurking deadbedrooms for a long time I was going to end the marriage and was sifting through deadbedrooms putting together an exit plan when I found TRP. The turnaround was 180.

By being that close to the brink made it very easy to take the pill. To this day I still have my exit plan and keep working on it because I think I'll need it. However this abundance mentality of walking at a time that suits me is probably the only thing generating desire. For clarification I've told her if I'm not happy end the marriage but I have told her that I have an exit plan.

She has the Sword of Damocles hanging over her head now after I had it hanging it over mine for so long living in fear of her emotions.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Your life as a man can become really miserable without basic knowledge such as passing shit tests and dread game.

This. Once you become a Dread/Shit test master, you're life become simpler.

[–]Endorsed Contributor30303030303030 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Her explanation made me feel cold and empty inside: She wanted to test how far she could go.

women and children have that in common

In an exclusive LTR, withholding sex is a very serious shit test.

If it's only an ltr then it's not a problem, you drop her like a bad habit and that's that. Unless you are beta, then you suffer. In marriage however, different story. I don't remember when it changed, but back in the day, in marriage, there was no possibility to say no to a husband, you couldn't rape your wife. Nobody here is willing to rape women but when women knew that was not an option, they weren't using it as a leverage.

That changed though and they know they can control us withholding sex. Women, on average, don't need sex as much as we do.

[–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (2 children)

If that were true women wouldn't be fucking other men behind the husband's back but they are.

[–]Endorsed Contributor30303030303030 1 point2 points  (1 child)

"on average"

Are you really claiming that women and men have the same libidos?

[–]bitches_be_crazy86 0 points1 point  (3 children)

There's much for you to learn. Learn shit, go out there and use them as cumbuckets. That will teach you a thing or two. An average woman is way kinkier and hornier than an average guy.

[–]BrunoOh 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Difference is that the guy is horny for the average woman, but the woman is only horny for the alpha.

[–]Endorsed Contributor30303030303030 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Learn what?

An average woman is way kinkier and hornier than an average guy.

Hornier? No. Why men start majority of sexual encounters? And by majority I mean 90%+.

Kinkier. Yeah, kind of. There are more things you can do to a woman so spectrum is bigger. They give it only to the right man though.

[–]bitches_be_crazy86 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hornier, but not for average guys. Just the top 10%.

Women start encounters just as eagerly. You'll get there

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

It's so funny to me how people on this dumb ass site think OH MY GOD RED PILL SO LAME! Meanwhile everything we say is true. But that's what happens in a feminized society, being a goddamn, unfiltered man is a demonized thing, without being understood. It's like being a fucking Jew in Nazi Germany. No critical thought, just pure hatred without understanding. The masses are fucking retarded. They think they're so smart and advanced, too. It's laughable.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Alternative medicine that works is still medicine.

[–]theDarkAngle 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I think its different than simple hate. It is an intense loathing for any attempts by men to decode female behavior and share the findings with other men. Women have always exploited the fact that men worship them despite not understanding why they do and say the things they do.

Because men don't worship women if they understand how they really are. With the flaws revealed, women are not magical creatures. They are just people with vaginas, every bit as flawed as men, though in strikingly different ways.

[–]havelbrandybuck 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Silence and withholding attention is a greater tool than withholded sex.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So true. So man blue men are afraid to pull back because they fear angering the woman.

Nothing turns her on like a man she cant control

[–]1beerthroway 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My assertiveness, to see how much shit I can put up with before I take measures?

This is an important lesson to learn as a man, specifically when leading others.

If you're willing to put up with a lot, you're actually seen as weaker than a man who calmly knows his boundaries and has consequences already in place for when those boundaries are pushed. You have to decide beforehand what the consequence is going to be when those around you push on a certain boundary. These boundaries don't have to be context specific. It can be as simple as understanding how you're going to react to a feeling.

A non-context specific example: if you catch yourself feeling like those around aren't pulling their weight, have a consequence. Are you going to tell them what they need to do? Are you just going to stop and let them see you stop so they react and compensate? You don't have to know exactly what you're going to do, but I'd you have a clear boundary set beforehand (the boundary here is that you refuse to let others take advantage of you) then you can see it coming and have plenty of time to rationally decide the best course of action without getting emotional like the guy in the post.

Another boundary is determining how others are allowed to talk to you. There are plenty of boundaries a man/leader should have. They are effective. It may sound idealistic to discuss boundaries, but realistically, having boundaries is effective, and a leader wants results.

Having a long fuse does not make you seem like a better man. Putting up with disrespect makes you less respectable. Having a short tolerance for others pushing against your boundaries and not reacting emotionally but instead having clear consequences is what makes a good leader.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What men don't seem to understand in the haze of infatuation is when a women says "I do", it means, "I do... right now". Any moment after that is subject to Briffault's Law. You cannot negotiate desire, and you cannot contract biological impulses.

[–]2akurate 2 points3 points  (1 child)

That test wouldn't work at all with me. Even when I love a girl deeply I remain on some level disconnected, I'm not jealous because I have supreme confidence in her attraction to me. I had this girl that would sometimes dance with other guys in a club when we had a small fight and I would see in her mannerisms that she was only doing it to get back at me. When she saw I was laughing and wholy unaffected she would come back like a kitten. I could see through her psychology as an adult can see through an 8 year old child's mind.

Men have to be older than their partners because they need those extra years of emotional game experience, we arn't used to the craftyness of woman and the games they play. But if you are 4 years older than your girl you will feel in control as you are wiser and more mature than her.

[–]Philhelm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The shit test I hate the most is the threats of paying child support.

Me: "I'm displeased with _____." Her: "Well why don't you divorce me and pay child support?"

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I think one of the best things for a man is to have control over his sex drive. Its our biggest weakness and can get us into a lot of trouble. Learn to say no once in a while. When that sloot at the bar wants to fuck, and your dick is saying yes but your better judgment says not to, then listen to your better judgment. If your wife turns you down once in a while, act like its no big deal and learn to say no to her if you're not in the mood. Just learn to have some control over your sex drive and get the upper hand with the women you're with. If you go without for a little while, big deal, your dignity and self control and your future is worth more than a nut.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I kind of agree with you, but I think you're talking theoretically rather than from real life experience.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope, I am speaking from real life experience. My horniness has gotten me into trouble before.

[–]BlaiseDB 1 point2 points  (2 children)

For a woman, this is the nuclear option.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I believe that /u/IllimitableMan also calls it the nuclear shit test.

[–]SQQQ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

well in my case she was withholding sex and i insisted that sex is inseparable part of the relationship. she continued to holdout and we broke up.

happened 2x with 2 diff girls. i wouldn't call em "winning scenarios" but sometimes u need to take a stand n b prepared to next em.

they later regretted their own stupidity, but by then its too little too late.

[–]BlackHeart89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm dealing with this chick who is aiming strongly for an LTR. Well fell out 3 weeks ago and recently started back talking.

We hung out once and didn't fuck... What? The shit tests have begun and they are flying in furiously. I fucked up with holding frame when she hit me back. I thought everything was good. You really can't give this bitches an inch. They'll try and take a mile.

After typing this out, I see I'll have to begin soft nexting her. Damn. What a waste.

EDIT: After reading through the comments and thinking back on my successes and failures, once she starts witholding sex, go ahead and consider it a lost. At that point, whatever you say can't hurt you. You'll be better off telling her that you'll just have to fuck her sister than to suck up to her. The moment you give her an inch, she'll take a mile. You'll be having sex "up to" twice a month as opposed to every other day in no time. And as a bonus, she'll become more of a bitch.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I've dealt with shit test like this in years past. It was during a time when I had let myself go. Getting chunky, or not being as socially active, or just not being as good of a provider. I'm TRP all the way, but I think that this type of shit test is the females way of waking you up before she has to finally walk out. It's like a final grace period before the end.

Because God knows that since I got my physique together, engaged socially, and moved my career forward, I have never dealt with these type of shit tests again.

[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Because God knows that since I got my physique together, engaged socially, and moved my career forward, I have never dealt with these type of shit tests again

Because you inadvertently initiated dread game.

[–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am thankful this has never happened to me. Only 1 woman ever "withheld sex" as LMR and I won't hold it against her. I cut all contact, no need to waste my time, but I get her situation. Her ASD is super-strong in a way normal women won't have. She literally was schizophrenic and would hear voices all day every day telling her she's bad and wrong and about everything, not just sex. Oh well. Fucked her once but it wasn't so good. Was hoping for a good time for 2nds but it wasn't to be.

[–]JovianTrainWreck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"I do think that she was actually withholding sex as a test. Testing what? How strong my love was to not leave her anyway? My assertiveness, to see how much shit I can put up with before I take measures? I don't know"

Haha! Oh you silly rascals, trolling those poor subs like that, how naughty of you

There's no fuckin way that the concept of a shit test was just dangling on the tip of his tongue like that, the motherfucker was this close! Somebody unplug this motherfucker already if this is legit!

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