Science"Partner Count Doesn't Matter" vs. Medical Reality (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by FreshlyWashedPillow

Before I begin, a little disclaimer: I'm just a young dumb cis shitlord MD who will be staff before 28 so take whatever I say here with a grain of salt.

It seems that any discussion about the divorce risk, emotional problems, or other "soft" social markers surrounding the debate about women who CC-rode in their 20s seems to devolve into accusations of insecurity, immaturity, misogyny, Other Standardized Buzzword to Enforce PC Thinking(tm). Nauseating counter quotes include inanities such as "Past is past!", "She chose you now, what does it matter who she fucked before?", "Stop being so insecure!", "It only matters in so far as sexual health is concerned, otherwise I don't give a shit".

Ok, fair enough. I can understand, from a purely rational standpoint, why gold digging CC riders and their cheerleaders have such a vested interest in preventing an epidemic of slut-averse beta bucks from occurring, for obvious reasons. God forbid those betas get standards and disqualify them from the gold rush, because that would totally suck for them.

But if you're a patient telling me that partner count or sexual practices doesn't matter when you're in my office asking about your vaginal discharge or swollen, painful labia, you get labelled Big Fucking Idiot in my head, and I thank you, because I look forward to seeing you again for another future 5 minute visit in a couple months that will net me another 60 bucks. Tack on another 20 for a sick note.

Let's get specific. Just what are some of the lovely medical sequelae that present CC riders are at increased risk for?

  1. Gonorrhea is the second most common disease (never mind STI) in the US; the highest incidence is in the sexually active female population 15-19, the second highest is males 20-24, but here's the kicker - the female rate is underestimated because infection is often asymptomatic in women. Risk factors? Multiple sexual partners, previous infection, being unmarried. Again, just a Dumb Cis Shitlord, just spouting agenda, not facts, oh wait - this was from the CDC and the American Journal of Epidemiology. But so what? What if I'm asymptomatic! Except gonorrhea can lead to, and accounts for, up to 40% of pelvic inflammatory disease, which is an upper genital tract infection that can cause chronic pelvic pain, infertility, or in severe cases, life threatening abdominal sepsis. Hur dur, we has antibiotics now, we is good to keep on slutting! Ok, fair enough, 90% of cases can resolve with first or second line agents, but past behaviour predicts future behaviour, and I've already had more than one tearful counselling session with an unfortunate who is now infertile "I never thought this would happen to MEEE!!". Repeat customer, beat it each time, until Mother Complications decided to show up and exert her dominance. But but but condoms! Routine barrier contraceptive use reduces gonorrhea transmission rate by up to 50%, not 100%. And yet an early 2000s CDC survey showed only 30% of early 20s women reported regular condom use. Oh well, there's always cats!

  2. HPV-related oropharyngeal cancer - AKA human papilloma virus, sub type 16 to be specific. Most common STI worldwide, infection spreads shortly after onset of sexual activity. In decades past the primary domain of smokers, but now thought to account for up to 50-80% of North American oropharynx cancers. Risk factors: early age of sexual activity onset, multiple partners. In graphic terms, if you had a choice between eating out a former slut wife vs. a low count/virgin and chose the former, you are literally at higher risk for throat and mouth cancer. Sure, you will probably beat the odds, unless you're one of the unlucky ones that ends up losing part of his tongue and a radiated wooden neck. Double sucks if you get divorced too.

  3. Herpes - an incurable, but non-fatal viral infection that causes intermittent painful open sores on genitalia. Same family as cold sore virus. Traditionally, your oral herpes are caused by HSV 1, genital herpes by HSV2. With the prevalence of oral sex, you are finding both subtypes on both areas. Still transmissible even if partner is not symptomatic with active sores. HSV 2 generally causes worse symptoms, so woe to you if you get it on your mouth from your dear "past doesn't matter" Special Snowflake. Bonus points if you somehow get it in your eye.

I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of why it's objectively, from a strictly medical and health standpoint, a worse decision to wife up or make a former slut your new monogamous partner. Cervical cancer risk, chlamydia, prolapse, rectovaginal fistulas (essentially, you go number 2 out the vagina), ectopic pregnancy risk, salpingitis, etc etc.

Student health clinics are a gong-show. I get students coming in treating "the clap" like a joke, like it's just a routine cold you're supposed to get like clockwork per year. I love prenatal visits where the husband comes in with the wife, I ask the mom about previous STIs or sexual history, she denies, and at future visits she spills the beans when alone. I actually had one obese diabetic who has poor insulin compliance because, I shit you not, it's a form of fat shaming. Well, if preventing blindness, rotting feet, and kidney failure is fat shaming, call me Dr. Fat-Hating Shitlord. Every week brings at least one Maury-like moment, and it's hilarious. Telling a hysterical patient in ER matter-of-factly and stone faced that she has genital herpes, while watching her faithful boyfriend's expression slowly change as I discuss the possible transmission routes makes the hours worth it.

The best part is getting paid well to get a front row seat to this daily dose of human stupidity. So, buy into the flow of PC bullshit about not being a judgey douche if you want, but don't worry, I'll be there with some antibiotics and antidepressants when it all goes to shit. Just pray the bacteria doesn't become resistant before you've had your fun.

Fuck I love my job.

[–]Redpillthriller 374 points375 points  (6 children)

Everyone knows the past matters. Especially women. This is why they go into hyperdrive when it's even hinted at.

[–]thrwawy_one 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Perfect instance of what Paul Graham describes in "What You Can't Say": things that are taboo and, furthermore, could be/are legitimately true, are the things you "can't say".

[–]krakosia 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That advice and the article applies to everything discussed here.

[–]ImBloodyAnnoyed 11 points11 points [recovered]

Wanna hear something funny?

I never ask about my gf's past. Never. When she brings it up, I change topics.

She's literally begging to tell me her past now and every now and then does so to see if there's a reaction. There isn't. The information is noted and processed, but to her it's like I'm not even listening. Drives her wild.

Told me way more this way than she ever would have if I had asked.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Reverse psychology works wonders when used correctly.

[–]bebestman 99 points100 points  (31 children)

This is for promiscuous women, what about heterosexual men? How strong is the tradeoff from a medical standpoint?

[–]Glenbert 24 points25 points  (29 children)

Obviously, it's higher, but the risk doesn't rise as dramatically with each new instance because we're not being penetrated.

That said, I'm way above the median partner count and I'm clean as a whistle. Fuck you, science.

[–]CornyHoosier 32 points33 points  (6 children)

I'm way above the median partner count and I'm clean as a whistle. Fuck you, science.

You're playing with fire son! Make sure you rubber-up on the next one just to be safe.

[–]Glenbert 59 points60 points  (3 children)

I might be done with that game now.

You see the past is the past; I'm a different man now!

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 17 points18 points  (0 children)

He's probably clean because he makes sure to wrap it before wrecking it.

[–]LeDispute 7 points8 points  (14 children)

What's considered the median?

[–][deleted] 12 points12 points

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[–]dandeezy 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Really? Twelve? as in lifetime? Man I'm 30 and already ahead. Nice! I know guys who are close to 200 but he's an HPV carrier. Figures. Fuck hood rats => get hood rat diseases. Lol

[–][deleted] 13 points13 points

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[–]MITHRIL_OR_NOT_MITHR 134 points135 points  (60 children)

I was in the partner count doesn't matter camp. LTR with a partner with over 30 partners. I had 2 before her. First unprotected sex partner. Boom soon after we begin dating she tests positive for HPV. We are older than Gardasil and it was one of the potential cancer causing ones for women. Years later I developed warts on the hands, big nasty ones that kept coming, and took a lot of nitrogen spray from the Dr. and dry ice applied by myself to finally resolve. Then came the genital warts. I was dry icing the base of my shaft. Then anal warts. The Dr. recommended I hold out and hope they go away on their own.

I did finally become immune to developing warts less than a year after the genital warts began. She's had several precancer scares at the Dr., and we're talking a decade after the time when she became infected. Promiscuity is hazardous to your health, but being a desperate nerd and going for an easy promiscuous girl to get laid is hazardous too.

Bonus: She didn't learn from contracting an STD not to have unprotected sex. Years into our relationship she cheated on me and had an unprotected threesome with a couple, and sex one on one with the man on one or more occasions. I was still having unprotected sex with her all throughout. I flipped my shit when I found out but went to counseling instead of breaking up, for another year. She actually held it against me for flipping out on her.

Final word of advice: Just because a girl has a high sex drive with multiple sex partners does not mean she will have a high sex drive for frequent sex with you in a monogamous relationship. I was going more than a month usually between.

[–]Endorsed ContributorStories_of_Red 53 points54 points  (18 children)

LOL post this at Two X Chromosomes sometime, telling them, yeah, past sexual history does matter, folks, as an indicator.

Watch the ban hammer come out...

[–]BlackHeart89 19 points20 points  (15 children)

I'm sure it won't change anything. Instead of refuting or accepting what has been presented, they'll just shift it to, "Well what about men and all the women they have sex with". Which, I admit, is a valid argument, but it doesn't address what was originally put forth (a woman's promiscuity).

[–]MITHRIL_OR_NOT_MITHR 13 points14 points  (7 children)

I did this on another account in a related subreddit to what he mentioned. I can't share it here due to rules, but bottom line was a lot of NAWALT replies and negative comment scores for everything I said in that thread.

[–]quelques_heures 12 points13 points  (5 children)

I've been on reddit a few months now and I'm amazed at the level of self-deception and irrational beliefs people are capable of, and then they get offended when you point it out to them.

It's like you're in the wrong for not validating their unique, unorthodox and wrongheaded opinion.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not only wrong, but offensive, shouted down for disagreeing, and pick a negative adjective like pedophile, rapist, or abuser to describe you. They will silence reason, logic, and facts if they don't fit the dogma they have faith in.

[–]quelques_heures 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Except the average guy doesn't even come close to having sex with more than 30 women in his life, unless he's paying for it. You'd have to be a real alpha to apprach those numbers. Whereas even an average woman could easily have had sex with that many people just in her early 20's.

[–]BlackHeart89 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Verrry good point. I knew an ugly chick who was quiet and didn't talk to anyone in high school.

Turned out a whole neighborhood of guys were fucking and getting head from her because she was so easy. And some of these guys were able to pull at least 8's.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah they would miss the fact that all of those risks apply to both men and women. It isn't like me. Don't get stds.

[–]krakosia 2 points3 points  (0 children)

don't bring around piece of data that don't fit into the broader narrative please, makes it harder to maintain the matrix

[–]WardlyHasted 12 points12 points [recovered]

This shit is fucking terrifying. It doesn't matter what you believe about past partner count and whether it matters or not. Believe what you want, but being indifferent or taking a woman's word that she's only slept with 3 people is blind optimism and you are only gambling with your personal health.

[–]MITHRIL_OR_NOT_MITHR 7 points8 points  (4 children)

That's true. But this one was honest about her count being 30+. At the time I simply was okay with that fact. I was the one who had only 2 prior sex partners.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I flipped my shit when I found out but went to counseling instead of breaking up, for another year. She actually held it against me for flipping out on her.

They're really good at those pressure flips. Never mind the bad thing she did that made you lose your shit, the betrayal, the disgust - no, her choice, her body - you're a cunt, HOW DARE YOU FLIP OUT ON HER? YOU NEVER FLIP OUT ON A WOMAN EVEN IF SHE FUCKS YOUR FATHER, YOUR BROTHER AND CLEANS OUT YOUR BANK ACCOUNT. YOU JUST DON'T DO IT. (fyi: That would make a great disagree and amplify.) Honestly, fuck modern women who do this shit. Fuck feminism. Fuck all the faggots enabling them. It's all bullshit. They twist everything. Massive red flags right there. I hope you're free of this cunt now.

[–]My_Dog_Jax 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If a woman gave me anal warts... How are there not more men shooting women on the news? Not that I would condone that, but Jesus Christ.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (4 children)

I flipped my shit when I found out but went to counseling instead of breaking up, for another year.

wow dude, you were a chump. I know you know, but damn.

[–]CornyHoosier 74 points75 points  (2 children)

Most of us here were. No need to rub it in ;)

[–]iReign_x 41 points41 points [recovered]

Nah, rub it in and add salt. We can't let each other go back to being pussies like that.

[–]weirdnamedindian 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damnit! I hate it when I agree with both CornyHoosier and you!!

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 8 points9 points  (10 children)

Finish the story! Did you eventually dump her ass?

[–]MITHRIL_OR_NOT_MITHR 24 points25 points  (9 children)

She told me to move out for some childish tantrum based reason which she then hamstered retroactively, by claiming she meant temporarily. This was completely made up to protect herself from the truth; she was the one who outwardly pushed me out, even though inwardly she didn't want to break up, just play mind games. I consider that it was she who dumped me by making me move out, while she considers that it was I who dumped her by obeying her demand to move out, and by declining to move back in.

[–]yumyumgivemesome 15 points16 points  (5 children)

I consider that it was she who dumped me by making me move out, while she considers that it was I who dumped her by obeying her demand that I move out, and by declining to move back in.

The use of present tense worries me because it implies that you still interact with this woman. Unless you have children together, you need to cut those ties to her ASAP. She is toxic.

[–]MITHRIL_OR_NOT_MITHR 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I had tried to be friendly acquaintances but she wanted more. She wanted me to be "invested" and "committed" to a "friendship". This sounds a lot like more relationship talk to me so I told her I can't offer any of that. She told me not to contact her then. She continued to contact me every few months by text, talk a little, then remind me not to contact her.

I explained to her that she had created a one-way dynamic of communication, and told her not to contact me, reminding her that she expects the same of me. She understood and so far that's that, for the last couple months.

[–]cptspiffy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Well that's fucked up, but you're here now. Stay strong.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Jesus christ man. That is impressively awful.

[–]MITHRIL_OR_NOT_MITHR 4 points5 points  (1 child)

One thing I didn't mention is that it really stung that it was a threesome. She knew I was interested in having one, and I've never done that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well why would she? You were the "stable" one. She'd never do something so filthy and nasty with you, right? She "respects" you too much.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 267 points268 points  (38 children)

And that's just the physical stuff.

What matters even more (because the odds are worse) is that past behaviour is a predictor of future behaviour.

The reason a woman has a high partner count is because guys didn't stick around after banging her. It doesn't matter how easily she gives it up, if she such a keeper that the first guy she gives it up easy to puts a ring on it six months later.

A slut is a woman whose only appeal to men is physical, so she has to substitute sexual availability for girl game. That means having a high partner count is the symptom, not the disease. The disease is whatever awful personality trait it is that made all those other men run for the hills.

If they did that, you should, too.

[–]disposable_pants 105 points106 points  (27 children)

The reason a woman has a high partner count is because guys didn't stick around after banging her.

This isn't necessarily the primary reason. Her partners may have wanted commitment and she may have turned them down because she was 24 and didn't want to think about marriage for another decade.

[–]Endorsed ContributorStories_of_Red 73 points74 points  (7 children)

she may have turned them down because she was 24

... and the man making the offer was not Jared Leto.

A woman is totally ready to settle down, at any age, if the man is deemed worthy. It is just that her scale of worthy is often really distorted. In this day and age, too many 19-24 year olds act as though they think, eventually, a gorgeous 29 year old billionaire thundercocker will wife them. But until such time, the gals are going to just play the field until that Man God appears.

[–]rcglinsk 49 points50 points  (1 child)

Check out China's propaganda on "leftover women"


I don't think it's on the wikipedia page, but one of their slogans is "yes, the perfect man may be out there, but why would he want you?"

[–]the_number_2 7 points8 points  (0 children)

a 1986 Newsweek article that said women who weren't married by 40 had a better chance of being killed by a terrorist than of finding a husband.

Hah, wow, ouch. And that was before all of this "global terror" stuff where everyone thinks they'll die from a terrorist, so that was REALLY driving home a point.

[–]blandboringusername 11 points11 points [recovered]


[–]Endorsed Contributorzyk0s 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Did anyone really think it could end any other way?

[–]quelques_heures 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Because only in America must a woman's reward for kinky sexual gratification be marriage, instead of just two adults physically enjoying each other.

[–]femmefatale1 6 points7 points  (2 children)

And that woman isn't by nature interested in marriage. She is just interested because her circumstances have changed and she is afraid of getting old alone.

[–]disposable_pants 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I don't think that's accurate. I've talked to plenty of women (and read about plenty more) who have every intention of getting married someday -- they just want to start a career/make it through grad school/travel more/fuck more first. As another commenter in this thread pointed out women are always interested in marriage; they simply start out with absurdly high standards. Those standards lower as they age and get more realistic, but they start somewhere.

[–]femmefatale1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've talked to plenty of women (and read about plenty more) who have every intention of getting married someday -- they just want to start a career/make it through grad school/travel more/fuck more first.

Right, but that demonstrates that marriage is maybe 4 or 5 on her priority list. She would rather be doing those other things instead. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean they will put less effort into it than someone who puts getting married as there number 1 priority.

[–]BlackHeart89 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Also to add on, she may have been seeking a committed relationship from those out of her league. Which will result in an alpha widow.

Or she may have been searching for someone who was in her league, but just did not want a commitment. Thats my situation. I'm dealing with women I wouldn't mind being in an LTR with. But I just refuse to commit right now. But each one is trying. I may break and do it. But I know it won't last long.

Either way. This also could lead to being an alpha widow. But this also goes back to women not giving it away so easily. If you get dropped by these guys, stop being so quick to fuck them. Honestly, young alphas typically aren't the type to commit. Thats something they need to learn.

[–]OneTouchHowMuch 13 points14 points  (0 children)

she may have turned them down because she was 24 and didn't want to think about marriage for another decade.

And the trait being observed in your example is "poor future planning" i.e. inability to delay instant gratification

[–]dontdrinkthekoolade 19 points19 points [recovered]

Don't be surprised if you get a barrage of downvotes; but yes of course, there is always exceptions. However, in the realm of AWALT high partner count is a good indicator that guys don't stick around after banging her.

You could also throw in that she traveled all through Europe and the pacific in her early twenties and so she never was around enough for a real LTR. You can make as many "exceptions" as you want, but AWALT is AWALT.

[–]disposable_pants 46 points47 points  (7 children)

I don't think this is an exception -- I think it's a natural conclusion from other TRP ideas:

  • Women know they have many options
  • In the vast majority of interactions men pursue women, not the other way around
  • Feminism has taught women to hold off on marriage until their 30s
  • Women may hold off on marriage despite having quality partners
  • Women may explore other options despite having quality partners

None of these are controversial, and together they paint a picture of a woman who remains single not (necessarily) because she has some undesirable flaw, but because she's desirable enough that she has near limitless options. Anyone who has unlimited sex thrown at them in their 20s will be reluctant to give that up.

[–]truchisoft 24 points25 points  (0 children)

And that's part of the problem, too.

Women with quality partner hold off marriage while on the peak of their attractiveness, fails to acquire a similar quality partner later in life.

Hello Alpha Widow.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

None of these are controversial, and together they paint a picture of a woman who remains single not (necessarily) because she has some undesirable flaw, but because she's desirable enough that she has near limitless options. Anyone who has unlimited sex thrown at them in their 20s will be reluctant to give that up.

I think the age of the internet and social media is currently playing a huge role in this phenomenon. Nowadays, not only are we competing with the coolest guy in the room at a party, we're competing with the coolest guy out of the 800 something rando's that added her on FB or instagram.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Landing an apex alpha is AWALT. No one on here is an apex alpha so it seems AWALT means anti monogamy.

[–]MyReddit4 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Just to tag onto that in regards to travel and partner count:

Even before RP, if I was on a date with a girl and she told me about how "well traveled" she was, I always felt some sort of inner repulsion. I couldn't help but imagine her vag being tossed around like a football. Well-travelled indeed...

I don't understand how betas can brag about how their girl has been all over the world like it's some sort of accomplishment. Is it just me or is travel indicative of both high partner count & that no man in the world will stick with her?

[–]bebestman 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It is the mirror of the female drive: They desire the men every other female wants too, which is the reason that men in relationships are more attractive ceteris paribus.

[–]1sailorJery 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A fun analogy I can think of, in the movies when there's a crowd of people running from some explosion or monster, going towards the monster that everyone is running from is probably not in your best interest.

[–]holzy444 35 points36 points  (1 child)

So you're telling me actions have consequences?

[–]BakerAtNMSU 12 points13 points  (0 children)

and that, somehow, those consequences actually result from those actions?

[–]bppg 158 points158 points [recovered]

Can we nominate this man as the resident trp doctor? I enjoy these medical facts.

[–]foldpak111 53 points54 points  (2 children)

He's like Dr. Hannibal Lector with his Machiavellian amused mastery, except he doesn't eat people. Well... I don't think does. Dude do you eat people?

[–]GuitarHero07 71 points72 points  (13 children)

Good stuff, OP. To add to your stories, I recently was working in the ER when I treated a 23 year soldier who had penile discharge. The guy had only ever been active with one woman. He had come back from a tour of duty. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together....

Of course she exhibited many of the carousel riding red flags. She was a little older than he was, had the slutty tattoos and piercings and a prickly/aggressive demeanor. She also had a very revealing outfit on a cold winter day in February.

[–]foldpak111 41 points42 points  (10 children)

These women are fucking jokes when I witness them. Lost beyond lost and due to all the brutal treatment they gave me in my adolescents, I love seeing their downfall and especially my uprising. Life is fucking amazing.

[–][deleted] 63 points63 points

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[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 27 points28 points  (1 child)

He's not really taking revenge, just observing how life has an element of karmic justice sometimes. He doesn't seem hateful (to me).

[–]foldpak111 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not getting revenge, I'm just living life as an alpha male. Revenge would be me going up to the girls that are trainwrecks now and saying https://youtu.be/pxlCfoZholo

I just laugh because I used to view these people as so much above me, yet they are so below me. Shows you how strong social conditioning ruins most men. It's biological to conform because 'safety in the herd'. Our primal brains haven't caught up to modern living so we have to train ourselves out of certain things.

My view is that ultimately, focusing on anger and hate is good for short term results, but bad for the long term. If I'm angry and mad, I'm gonna hammer it out in the gym and at work. But in the long term, you need to find that inner peace. NFL player Steve Smith went through the same thing. That anger he had in him propelled him to the big leagues, but once in, that anger led to suspensions and jail time. He's still intense, but you can tell he isn't angry anymore.

[–]CornyHoosier 2 points3 points  (0 children)

These women should be pitied. They never had proper mother and father figures who raised them to be a strong individuals or how to look inwardly and reflect on how they may be wrong. You and I have both taken the pill. We've admitted we had short comings and wish to improve ourselves.

Let go of the hate ... you'll feel much better in the long run

[–]spacebanana0 22 points23 points  (10 children)

How the hell do you guys not get paranoid with plates etc.? Even with condoms you can't be 100 percent sure you won't catch some shit.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (6 children)

A dick is safe in your pants, but that's not what dicks are for

You gotta live, man. The older you get the more you realize that someday you're gonna be an old man and someday you're gonna die. You can't live your life afraid of every little danger. So you make it to your grave without ever getting an STD. Congrats?

HSV is the only STD that's likely to be with you for life that you have any meaningful chance of contracting. If you do get it, the primary negative impact on your life will be that you have sex with fewer women... Wait a second here...

The conclusion that I come to, the balance that makes sense for me, is to use protection but otherwise don't let fear of STD's dictate my thoughts or actions.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

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[–]femmefatale1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It would depend on your life strategy. I mean, I wouldn't marry a woman who had an STD. Most quality women would not want to settle down with a guy who has an STD.

If you intend to be single your whole life, then yeah don't worry about STDs, but if you want to settle down some day, then know an STD will lower the quality of partner you can attract.

[–]Dimsml 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Hey, Doc, why didn't you mention that some strains of Gonorrhea are resistant to Ceftriaxone? It is the last line of treatment for G. if other antibiotics do not work.

I hope you guys do understand what does that mean, do you?

[–]UncleDisgusting 25 points26 points  (3 children)

10 years ago, I'd be mad as hell if a young or middle aged woman had too many miles and spouted one of those typical bullshit phrases such as 'Count/number doesn't matter' 'She chose you' and the ever-brilliant 'It's in the past.' Nowadays, it doesn't bother me unless they try to deny their nature. Now I just laugh when these little sluts try to gear-shift as the wall approaches and they try to pass themselves off as being worthy of being a wife/mother/girlfriend/LTR. Stop denying your true nature, ladies. Make your choice early and stick with it or shut the fuck up. I'd have more respect for them if they said: 'I've been the town's bicycle, and I'll probably keep going and wrack up hundreds of thousands more miles on the whoredometer....oh well, I can't change now. Today is my turn with my Alpha master, so I better go and not keep him waiting or he'll go to the next plate on his list.' as opposed to 'My number shouldn't matter.' 'But I ultimately chose you.' '[Insert scripted bullshit hamster rationalization here]' Edited for spelling and grammar.

[–]Kill_Your_Ego 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I choose you to pay for all my shit. That's what she's saying. I choose you to buy me a house and take care of me when I'm old. I'll have sex with you until we are married and then I'm going to develop some condition, a headache or possibly a new found asexuality, and stop having sex with you. At this point in time I will get "curious" about how my old "friends" are doing and contact them on facebook. Later I'll meet one guy just to "catch up" and somehow his penis will end up being rammed around in my body. But I still choose you to buy me stuff!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, it's about survival. Eventually, they're not going to be on that list so what do you expect?

[–]Locastor 30 points31 points  (8 children)

I actually had one obese diabetic who has poor insulin compliance because, I shit you not, it's a form of fat shaming.

Can you please come over to /r/fatlogic and share this sordid tale?

[–]CSMastermind 56 points57 points  (6 children)

There's a fat chick on my Facebook who posted the following:

Finally got my doctor to remove "obesity" from the diagnoses that my fat-obsessed former doctor put on my record. I'm back to being healthy ^_^

[–][deleted] 29 points29 points

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[–]rpscrote 12 points13 points  (0 children)

hoooooooooly shit that's hilarious

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh jesus that is actually sad.

[–]JovianTrainWreck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You should reward her breakthrough with cupcakes with giant tear drops iced on top.

[–]brianjamesxx 12 points13 points  (0 children)

/r/fatpeoplehate is waiting, too.

[–]santino314 13 points13 points [recovered]

Hey doc, I would really appreciate if you could answer some questions:

  1. I always go with a rubber for penetration, but I never wear one for blowjobs. Is it too risky? Any way of minizing the risk?

  2. Aside from REALLY obvious signs like fetid smell and discharge in her vagina, is there any sort of "quick assessment" you can make (discretely) to a girl you're about to fuck to find out if she might have some std? Any noticeable giveaways?

  3. Assuming you found out that a girl you fucked an hour ago was dirty with something, what can you do right there to minimize the damage?

Thanks a lot.

It's a great privilege to have a smart lad in our ranks. Keep these stories coming, they're pure gold.

[–]FreshlyWashedPillow[S] 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Genital-oral mucosal contact always carries the risk of HPV or HSV (herpes) transmission. Generally, if your partner's been previously active, there is always a chance she is a carrier, and there is no HPV screening test for males. Obviously, I would advise abstaining from a BJ from someone with obvious symptoms like open mouth sores, or signs of gonorrheal pharyngitis.

The issue with otherwise normal appearing partners is that the results won't be seen for many years. By the odds, even if you are infected, you probably won't get cancer from HPV. But my point all along is that there is a undisputable, and quantifiable medical difference between having sex with someone who is less promiscuous vs. someone who is. Risk of HPV/herpes is part of that calculation.

The safest way is to get tested prior to activity. Unless you have a lamp, speculum, and lab ready, there is no way you can 100% tell if a girl is clear of gonorrhea/trichomonas/chlamydia by physical exam alone because the culture swabs need to be taken from the cervix as well. Besides smell/discharge, things like warts (these are generally clustered, with a verrucous (rough) surface, as opposed to pimples from shaving), ulcers, visible masses (swollen Bartholin glands) are visible; however, if you're in the situation where you're trying to play impromptu doctor, you've already made the wrong choice. Stay as safe as possible and get tested. You've only yourself to blame if you let your lust control your health.

If you need STD screening after a sketch encounter, it depends on the elapsed time from exposure and your symptoms. There are slightly different protocols. Regardless, you need to see your doctor. At the end of the day, from your POV, I am just another guy on the Internet. I have nothing to prove here other than the fact that I want to both contribute and amuse subscribers here with my unique perspective.

[–]Black-Pill 26 points27 points  (5 children)

I started my escapades in the SMV before AIDS hit the 1st world population. Back then there was a lot of shame attached to STDs and the other consequences you have mentioned. The advent of HIV has sort of put the things you highlight into the category of the common cold. It boggles my mind.....

[–][deleted] 9 points9 points

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[–]colovick 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It still costs 10 grand per month which is out of reach for more than 99% of the population.

[–]deadally 29 points30 points  (23 children)

This is all true, but would it not also be an argument against men being promiscuous? They are at just as high a risk, especially with rising promiscuity in general.

The Red Pill's primary issues with women in particular being promiscuous relates to other factors, not primarily STIs.

[–]1kingofpoplives 14 points15 points  (1 child)

This is all true, but would it not also be an argument against men being promiscuous?

It is.

If you sleep with a lot of women, you're almost certainly gonna get something. Condoms help but are far from 100% effective.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Women are more susceptible. Thinner genital linings, reception of STI laced fluids, and a hospitable micro-organism environments make a one night stand a bigger risk for women. Uncircumsized men have also been shown to contract HIV more frequently during studies in Africa. Men, who don't get exposure through anal sex, are more resistant. But enough repeated exposure will have the same result.

[–][deleted] 12 points12 points

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[–]rpscrote 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That may be true, but it does not change the fact that a promiscuous man is more at risk for STIs than a non-promiscuous man.

Yes, obviously. We all know this already

[–]santino314 10 points11 points  (1 child)

A quick google search yielded this: http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/STDs-Women-042011.pdf

So women are indeed at higher risk.

You're right also in that promiscuous men are more at risk that non-promiscuous men.

I suppose that it's a matter of weighting the risks and returns. If you want to fuck around, you have to realize that you are at more risk. The thing is though, life is not about avoiding risk, but taking calculated risks.

The lesson here is DON'T LTR PROMISCUOUS WOMEN, it's just not profitable.

[–]1studyworkoutsleep 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Men are indeed per partner at lower risks. Love this post, as an MD I've had this conversation numerous times with dumbfounded friends. Its as if the agenda of embracing "wymyn's sexuality" ignores the facts that have been gathered by scientists, physicians, and researchers. Most women and men in their sexually active years are woefully unaware.

However, worth noting is TRP guy taking advantage of his top 20% station, racking up the HPV exposure with multiple partners. It's his due, and I'm all about it. But when he uses his alpha appeal to land a very low partner count/virgin LTR (or even if he plates a virgin/partner count <2 woman), he is likely carrying numerous HPV strains (HPV is transmitted by any skin to skin contact, and not entirely protected by condoms). He had better hope she is young and has had the HPV vaccine because upon initiation of sexual activity, she gets inoculated with a ton of viral strains, at an older age- a recipe for cervical cancer (the body reacts to HPV exposure better at a younger age. In older times, initiation of sexually activity at ages <21 with only one partner meant that the body had better chances of clearing the one inoculation of limited number of viral strains. Older women clear strains much slower/ more poorly, but thankfully in historical times they were settled down and no new innoculations occurred with a faithful partner. This can be canceled out in recent data with "younger age of sexual activity onset" because of CC riding and association with higher total partner count/HPV exposures). Rare case, only seen it once in a OBGyn clinic, but worth keeping in mind when selecting a LTR if you don't want to have to ditch her after she gets precancer (assuming TRP masters are the ones who can swing such a LTR partner).

[–]femmefatale1 5 points6 points  (2 children)

but would it not also be an argument against men being promiscuous?

Yes. Its less of an issue for men, but its still an issue. However, you will still see a lot of guys here trying to rationalize it away.

[–][deleted] 9 points9 points

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[–]femmefatale1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, normally I am a fan of the Red Pill but its odd watching these guys "hamster" around the issue.

By having sex with a bunch of women, you are also lowering your SMV.

[–]JihadDerp 10 points11 points  (9 children)

80% of women fuck 20% of men. Most women are promiscuous because it's easy for women to get laid. Most men are not because only 20% of them have the attractive qualities that allow them to be promiscuous.

[–]dimmy666 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Sure, but a large chunk of TRP belongs in this 20% of men. Therefore the risks involved in male promiscuity are indeed worthy of discussion.

[–]Subtletorious 27 points28 points  (2 children)

Very few of the 100,000 members are or ever will be in "the 20%". Knowing the rules does not make you a pro player.

[–]Glenwalk 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Good point. I think far too many guys here just hang around regurgitating sidebar material, thinking they're offering nuanced advice.

You don't become good at football by sitting around watching the NFL and repeating the commentary. And you don't learn much by saying what other people should have done in the situation, now that the consequences are clear.

You become a pro by going out there and practising, by failing, and by succimbing to your weaknesses and learning what your own personal shortcomings are.

While someone like Tony Kornheiser might have found a lucrative niche analysing sports in an entertaining way, he's still just the king of the spectators.

The posts of value come from coaches like Rollo, who have played the game and studied its rules, and synthesise that into new theories and models for behavior.

[–]dicklord_airplane 6 points7 points  (0 children)

it's really sad to read all the posts on reddit about people who end up with STD's. they never thought that it could happen to them. it amazes me how my peers, who are educated upper middle class, don't seem to realize the danger. I get myself tested for the usual STDs plus HSV every year or two because it's fucking irresponsible to NOT know if you're spreading diseases, but I've never met another person who's had HSV testing. it drives me crazy that there are so many irresponsible people out there, even among the top tiers of educated people.

[–]foldpak111 37 points38 points  (0 children)

You are one ruthless motherfucker. I love it.

[–]Doctor_Mayhem 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Reminds me of another reason I went MGTOW. Buddy called me gay for this, but I was like, "Well... I call it my own shit-test. If I'm about to bang a girl, I go to put on a condom. If she tells me it's unneeded, I somehow get turned off and don't want anything to do with her anymore. I walk out. If she'll let me go in raw, imagine all the other dudes that went in raw and got to bust in her. Yeah... Reeeeeeeal sexy, isn't it?"

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Take a look at a car or any vehicle, well maintained and serviced with few owners and it'll run well for a reasonable time. take a car that's poorly treated and maintained and goes through a number of owners and you'll get what we Australian's call a shitbox.

[–]atacms 4 points5 points  (8 children)

A little off topic how does having a rectovaginal fistula relate to promiscuous behavior?

Not that I don't believe you just I'm wondering if it's caused by the physical act of many dick taking that eventually causes it... and is that at all common? Lol.

[–]FreshlyWashedPillow[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Should have been more specific about that - fistulas and pelvic organ prolapse are more commonly associated with vaginal or anal trauma from complicated childbirth, and less commonly, but still possible, with foreign body insertion (whether toys or dicks).

[–]atacms 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Cool thanks for the info doc.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My wife is going through fistulectomy surgery recovery due to complications from a pilonidal cyst removal. Fistulas make me cringe, they're just an open wound that never closes sometimes. I'm all for standards but if a woman had a vagina-rectum fistula I'd do nothing but pity her condition and fight off the cringe every time I thought about it. She's in for a world of hurt.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points

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[–]FreshlyWashedPillow[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Almost beat me to it, but to add to what you said, severe PID, tubo-ovarian abscesses, and complex or emergent hysterectomies resulting from them are also risk factors for fistulas later in life.

However total hysts are becoming less common for TOAs, and fertility can usually be preserved.

[–]TempusRerumImperator 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didn't even know that, thank you for the tip. I was thinking more like HPV anal cancer in immuno-compromised patients, or perhaps Crohn's or UC induced bowel wall fistula, should've thought mechanical trauma, DUH.

[–]tuxidomasx 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Maybe in the future we can have a "Spit in a cup, know if they have an STI/STD in 5 minutes" app

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wish. These diseases stay out of the spit and even out of the blood much of the time. When they are not active they're easy for doctors to miss.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

First good on you for being a doctor.

Even in magic no stds exists land you DO NOT want to wife a hoe.

You get to a high partner count by cheating. My morality on cheating is whatever, no love lost as long as you didn't fiscally depend on the person and it wasn't to serious.

Large partner count women have at some point cheated off a man that provided for them. You will be the next beta if your stupid enough to provide!

[–]PandaMania3 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yup, we should totally forget what happened in the past but..... Not when they leave a permanent effect on us no?

[–]truthiesttruth 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hur dur, we has antibiotics now, we is good to keep on slutting! Ok, fair enough, 90% of cases can resolve with first or second line agents, but past behaviour predicts future behaviour, and I've already had more than one tearful counselling session with an unfortunate who is now infertile "I never thought this would happen to MEEE!!".

Good post but I feel like you are not 100% accurate with this. I am afraid your picture is a little too rosy, in reality we now have gonorrhea that is incurable: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/incurable-gonorrhea-hits-north-american-shores/

The cephalosporins-resistant strain has been going around globally. In June 2012, the World Health Organization warned doctors about the potential problem, and urged medical professionals to keep a closer eye on the disease. They felt that in a couple of years gonorrhea could potentially be resistant to all treatment currently available.

You might want to edit your post...

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This scientific shit. We need more of this. Great post

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Vaginas, which are designed to sustain sperm are literally bacteria factories. They have a much higher risk of contracting some diseases than men do due to weaker genital linings, reception of STI laced fluids, exposed mucuous membranes, and a hospitable micro-organism environment. Especially if that man is circumsized. Also, HPV is almost entirely a female problem as men cannot contract cervical cancer. (Men can have throat cancer develop later sometimes, but this is very rare.) The CDC reports that 47 percent of black women have contracted genital herpes, the not so friendly type 2 kind. Be careful out there fellas. Basically, the pill and abortions have exacerbated the CC nature of almost any girl. If you are going raw dog or long term, get her checked out. Then rechecked on regular intervals.

Fact sheet on female risk factors from the CDC. http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/STDs-Women-042011.pdf

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

But the reality is she can get an STD from any partner, no matter if he is her 1st or 50th, if she is not having protected sex. She could be a virgin and marry a RP plate spinning man and contract HIV.

[–]FrostyGoingHisOwnWay 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Honestly, this as well as the legal risk involved with psychotic women who like to file false legal claims is the number 2 reasons I don't consider spinning plates a good idea.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

STDs are way, way more common than false rape claims.

[–]JovianTrainWreck 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I'm glad you mentioned herpes!

Our friend /u/GayLubeOil had a little Google Hangouts debate with a bunch of BP schlubs about their "open relationship orgies" and near the end found out that they're all pretty much okay with getting herpes and all the shit that comes with it including childbirth complications and health. Straight from the herd's mouth, everybody.

[–]BallisticTherapy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like how they're totally oblivious to the carcinogenic consequences of HPV/HSV infections and they're nonchalant about passing it on to any kids they may have. If they gave birth to a kid and it got herpes, it could die or be permanently blinded from the infection.

I hope these people contract antibiotic resistant gonorrhea that damages their reproductive system so they can't ever reproduce

[–]welder550 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm actually more impressed by OP's attitude towards his job. To me, it borders amusement. As someone who has considered the MD route I hear a lot of Doc's becoming depressed over seeing these kind of things. Good write up.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (16 children)

In graphic terms, if you had a choice between eating out a former slut wife vs. a low count/virgin and chose the former, you are literally at higher risk for throat and mouth cancer.

Just ask Michael Douglas...

Catherine Zeta Jones had her fun on the CC, then gave her sugar daddy, beta bux, celebrity husband throat cancer.

[–]1kingofpoplives 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Catherine Zeta Jones had her fun on the CC

Dude, if you think Douglas hasn't banged hundreds of other women besides her you're crazy.

I'm sure CZJ rode the CC, but she is only one possible vector of infection.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Are you suggesting that we men of /r/theredpill practice sexual abstinence so as to avoid potentially giving our future wives HPV-related throat cancer?

HPV is everywhere, everyone gets it, most of the time it's cleared by the body without incident, and rarely, very rarely, it progresses into cancer. You're making a lot about a little. Unless people start practicing abstinence until marriage, this stuff happens.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Are you suggesting that we men of /r/theredpill practice sexual abstinence so as to avoid potentially giving our future wives HPV-related throat cancer?

Personally, before I got married, I didn't fuck outside of LTRs / potential LTRs for that reason... so yeah.

I'm personally not on board with the whole plate spinning thing... seems like it's for guys trying to overcome confidence issues, etc. To me spinning a plate that isn't going to go anywhere long-term is just boring as fuck. Once the potential for long-term was gone I wasn't into a girl anymore.

But I had a really alpha dad and I'm from a rich family in a poorer part of the country... and I'm 6'3 so it's not like getting laid has never really ever been an issue.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points

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[–]Ballosaurus 8 points8 points [recovered]

The fact is, you are at risk. You already have some form of HPV, whether or not it develops into cancer remains to be seen. Give us an update in 20 years.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

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[–]Ballosaurus 5 points5 points [recovered]

[–]SWABteam 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well if you read between the lines it basically says in theory there are pap tests that could work, just none are FDA approved because it is a male problem. There is no male cancer foundation giving money to research a test.

[–]T_H_E_T_R_U_T_H 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I had a bit of an argument with a friend of mine over this just recently. I told him I could only marry a girl with a low partner count and he thought I was being insecure. I gave him this analogy.

Say you have $18,000 cash to buy a car. There are two cars that you're choosing between; a brand new car, or a well used car. Both cars are nice cars.

The new car costs $21,000, $3,000 more than you have right now, but the used car is $14,000.

The brand new one has very low mileage, just from a few test drives. Full warranty. Everything is factory new. New car smell.

The used car has high mileage, a few dents, buggy radio but it's cheap and it isn't a terrible car.

If it's me, I'm going to save up the other $3,000 and get the new car. Taking the extra time to raise that little bit extra will pay off by getting me a car barely anyone has touched that, with regular care and maintenance, can last me possibly the rest of my life. There is a chance of it shitting out on me, but it's a small one.

I'm definitely not going to get the beater. It might be a great car now, and a killer value, but you're going to invest too much money in keeping it running and there's a high probability of it shitting out on you early on. On top of that, you'll have to get a CarFax report to see if it's been in any accidents the dealership may not have mentioned. It's just not worth it even if you can save the money.

I figure that's a decent enough analogy to explain my position on LTRing a high mileage woman. I'm good with plating them, but settling down? No way.

My friend didn't agree but said he understood where I was coming from

[–]Luckyluke23 2 points3 points  (0 children)

great post man. people need to be aware of this...

me. i glove 100% of the time.. and i'm talking 100%.

[–]Hilarious_Haplogroup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, /u/FreshlyWashedPillow/, as you already know, the vast majority of your patients will lie to you initially, and then give you the most exculpatory explanation of what they did do when they can no longer completely deny the evidence. I still hope you can continue to do your job well and help those small percentage of patients that take your advice to heart and mend their ways.

[–]Patranus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My only observation is that HSV was irrelevant in the medical community until drug companies stumbled upon anti-viral medication and started a massive media campaign to create a stigma. The identical thing happened right around the time the HPV vaccine was approved.

[–]iq8 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Pretty sure you can get herpes without ever having sexual contact.

[–]anonymoustrper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Man, I used to think, stumbling upon Textbooks of Gynaecology , when I was a horny 15 year old, had only cons, and no pros, but now I see I was wrong.

[–]WardlyHasted 3 points3 points [recovered]

rectovaginal fistulas

This is the scariest shit I've heard about a vagina since I heard about the movie Teeth. And Teeth is a fictional story about a toothed vagina.

[–]TempusRerumImperator 8 points9 points  (1 child)

PID is way more common than people think. It can be caused by both gonorrhea and chlamydial infections, often at the same time so usually we give medicine for both to cover it just in case. A cephalosporin and tetracycline, if im not mistaken. Don't want people going infertile, but also the risk of ectopic pregnancy goes up to like 50% once youve got them scarred fallopian tubes.

life threatening abdominal sepsis

Exactly, Most women dont realize their reproductive tract is an open system with communication to the abdominal cavity through the fallopian tubes. Once you go into septic shock, good luck.

rectovaginal fistulas

HPV Anal cancer?

Telling a hysterical patient in ER matter-of-factly and stone faced that she has genital herpes, while watching her faithful boyfriend's expression slowly change as I discuss the possible transmission routes makes the hours worth it.

You sir are my type of physician. You should've gone into orthopedic surgery with that attitude, you'd fit right in.

[–]Deresetese 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Can you explain how having many partners affects men?

[–]BMW1M 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Higher risk of STD contraction compared to men with very few partners.

[–]Deresetese 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Well, that's obvious. My question was related to effects specific to men only.

[–]TekkomanKingz 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Never fucked a high partner count slut, never had an STD in my life. Coincidence?

[–]whatever_your_path 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Now I don't feel so bad for being a 34 year old virgin.

Still sucks being alone though.

[–]Angry_Landwhale 5 points5 points [recovered]

Interesting perspective. I wonder how so many doctors decide to get married after witnessing this shit.

Hey I wanted to ask you about something here that seems to be a deliberately hazy topic. I've noticed a lot of wives and girlfriends turning up with hpv several years into a relationship. Only answers seem to be that it's possible the shit stayed around for a decade, so there's no real reason to doubt their word. Thing is, seems to happen quite a bit, how rare is it to test positive for this after being allegedly monotonous for years?

[–]FreshlyWashedPillow[S] 20 points21 points  (5 children)

Happy to answer - it's not so much that they "turn up" with HPV several years into a relationship, it's that the screening test women regularly do every 3 years between age 21-69 (the Pap) finally picked up some cervical cells showing signs of precancerous or cancerous changes. It is likely that they were exposed early on in life to HPV from past partners, with the changes finally showing up now.

At the onset of sexual activity, most women are exposed to the HPV virus, which is normally fought off in normal individuals. There are many subtypes of HPV, with varying oncogenic risks, and multiple sexual partners increases your potential exposure to different strains. Once infected, it can take years, even decades for the virus to start causing detectable cancerous changes, hence the regular screening.

Now, for those women who are monogamous with a male who has also never been exposed to HPV, they could theoretically have a lifetime of negative paps.

So to answer your question, it actually isn't rare, and you don't test "positive" so much as one of several possibilities, as the cytology ranges from normal to ASCUS (atypical cells of undetermined significance) to high grade neoplasia. The key point is that such a result is more often than not a result of past (years ago) sexual history, rather than recent cheating, given how long it takes for HPV to cause cancerous changes.

[–]althor2007 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I just wanted to clarify a few things regarding HPV testing and Pap smears. The current American Cancer Society guidelines (supported by the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology) recommend different screening programs depending on the age of the woman. For women under 21, no screening is recommended. Women ages 21-29 are recommended to have a screening Pap smear without HPV testing every 3 years (this changes if there is an abnormality). Women 30 to ~65-70 should have both a Pap smear AND HPV testing every 5 years (again, this changes if abnormal).

Basically, someone can find out that they have HPV several years into a relationship for several reasons. One, they just had their first screening test after turning 30 and got tested for HPV for the first time (and had normal Pap smears until then that did not require testing). Two, as FreshlyWashedPillow said, the cytology changed and led to HPV testing being done (so yes, you can actually test positive for HPV). Three, she is under 30, changed doctors, and is now going to someone who hasn't adopted the new (2012) guidelines and tests for HPV with every screening unnecessarily. Four, she went for STD/STI screening and this doctor happened to test for HPV where others hadn't in the past. And five, she cheated and contracted it from someone else.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Also, I keep remembering that post a little while back about how the DNA of sperm from past partners is incorporated in children that are conceived later on.

Pretty WTF worthy when coupled with these facts in this post.

[–]GarandTheftAvto 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Incredible post and great work in the comments. Thank you for responding to so many comments. Any further info on oropharyngeal cancer risk factors? I see you bolded multiple partners, but what about being a frequent customer of an infected (asymptomatic) individual?

[–]myshieldsforargus 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Traditionally, your oral herpes are caused by HSV 1, genital herpes by HSV2.

wait a second.. im pretty sure both HSV1 and 2 can occur at both genital and oral locations. it is dependent on where you get exposed to first.

[–]Kanyin 4 points4 points [recovered]

You quoted the word traditionally and then ignored it. That takes skill.

[–]Ehcadroj 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don't forget about syphilis - which is a time bomb if not treated. Up to 20-30 years later begins to demonstrate signs of neurodegeneration and mood swings. Hard to diagnose after the open sore period and can lead to infection establishments (gummas) in the brain/CNS, liver, and heart.

This one affects your children's lives because it can fuck with fetal development.

[–]FreshlyWashedPillow[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Damn. I made this post in a sleep deprived haze, had no idea it would blow up so big, I will go through and answer more questions in this thread since the response has been so enthusiastic.

[–]thenarrrowpath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Telling a hysterical patient in ER matter-of-factly and stone faced that she has genital herpes, while watching her faithful boyfriend's expression slowly change as I discuss the possible transmission routes makes the hours worth it.

I love prenatal visits where the husband comes in with the wife, I ask the mom about previous STIs or sexual history, she denies, and at future visits she spills the beans when alone.

Oh, do tell. Lets hear a story doc!

[–]GreenScreenLovin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Rectalvaginal fistulas are a thing. Screw sex dude, that's just sick.

[–]grachuss 1 point2 points  (3 children)

This is why I got the HPV vaccine.

[–]LadyLumen 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Very true. But by the logic you just stated, shouldn't men try to have a low partner count too, since they are just as vulnerable to STIs as women are?

[–]FreshlyWashedPillow[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

If the guy's goal is risk minimization and prioritizing their health over racking up an N count, then my answer is an unequivocal yes, they should strive for that. I want to be clear (and not that you implied it), but my original post made no endorsement of irresponsible male sexual behaviour whatsoever. My abrasive and blunt wording may be misconstrued by some as "slut-shaming" while simultaneously encouraging guys sleeping around to prove their alpha-ness. This is deliberate non-sense. What I specifically wished to address was that Partner Count Doesn't Matter for Women(tm) is, from a medical standpoint, farce, and to address the rationale for slut-revulsion from a different perspective than what is usually discussed here.

For the player types that I see for their STD checks, there will be some who take their health seriously and those who are laissez faire. There are always gradations of risk. I cannot tell them how they should pursue what makes them happy, I can only tell them that given their choices, this is what they SHOULD do to be as safe as POSSIBLE (but never 100%). It is up to them to follow or not.

At the end of the day, I took an oath to help and serve all patients, male and female, and sometimes that takes tough love. What I cannot stand is feel-good PC'ness causing people to make dumb decisions and justifying risky behaviour.

[–]killcat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Even more risky with the multidrug resistant Gono coming out of Asia.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It seems like nature itself devised STD's to curb promiscuous behavior. Especially, considering it is more prevalent in females.

Dr., is there any evidence to back up this assertion?

[–]ex_astris_sci 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're a bit of a sociopath but, like all sociopaths, you're entertaining.

[–]GoldBubble 1 point2 points  (2 children)

But with this information, doesn't it mean that men shouldn't be having excessive sex to avoid these risks?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Everybody knows about STDs. If someone needs to be told that their risk of contracting these diseases increases with number of sexual partners, they're a fucking idiot. Men don't care about partner count because they're afraid of contracting something, and if you don't realize this you're clueless. Pointless post.

[–]phoenix_md 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Doc here. Good post.

Let me highlight HPV-related cancer. Typically people under 50yo don't get cancer, but there is a rising epidemic of HPV related Head and neck cancer, cervical cancer, anal cancer, along with vulvar and vagina cancer. These are all caused by the HPV virus and take about 15-30 years of infection before causing the cancer, which means that these cancers are arising in 30-50year olds. These young patients ask me,"I don't smoke. How did I get cancer in my tonsil?" The answer is that you sucked someone's HPV infected dick or clit 20 years ago.

Sure, everyone doesn't get cancer when infected but it certainly sucks for those who do. Surgery, chemotherapy, and radiotherapy are not fun.

[–]Hatorader 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So as a guy who's eaten girls out I probably have HPV and will probably get cancer of this sort eventually? In other words I'm fucked.

[–]phoenix_md 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, the vast majority of people will defeat the virus with their immune system. But a few unlucky folks will get cancer.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"She chose you now, what does it matter who she fucked before?"

Implying that she didn't choose ALL the others then (maybe) changed her mind about them too?

[–]strps 1 point2 points  (0 children)

rectovaginal fistulas

That sounds bad..

(essentially, you go number 2 out the vagina)

Jesus! That's really bad!

[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

rectovaginal fistulas (essentially, you go number 2 out the vagina)

This post was worth reading just for that.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

  1. You're making these STD risks out to be a lot greater than they are. Yes, they exist. Yes, you have to apply the probabilities to make a risk assessment.

  2. Although it's easier for women to contract STD's than men, your entire premise, if we accept it, would lead to the conclusion that men as well as women should ideally remain celibate until marriage.

  3. Your point doesn't address "the past is the past". If a reformed slut with a 50+ body count doesn't have any STD's, then she doesn't have any STD's. "The past is in the past".

  4. The biggest problem with trying to housewife a whore isn't that you're going to get an STD. The chance of you getting antibiotic resistant gonorrhea or developing oropharyngeal cancer because your beloved carries STD's from her days of whoring it up in college is fairly small. If she doesn't have any STD's, it's zero. Herpes is harder to spread than you think, and at the end of the day it's a skin condition. The biggest risk is the increased risk of marital infidelity. This will destroy your world. This is by far the biggest problem with reformed sluts.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Not so fast there. You aren't considering the future sexual promiscuity potential of a girl with a dick addiction. That is rather generous of you to presume that Miss 50 cocks will forever be satisfied with one when her past history suggests otherwise. STI risk equals exposures times probability of transmission. Unless of course you are only talking ONS, then you are just rolling the dice regardless.

[–]juanqunt 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Good post overall... but I think you can't say that a woman is completely worthless after being a whore. There are certain criteria for her to redeem herself:

  • Confirmed no STDs

  • Confirmed cleanse + 6 months no sex

  • Then confirmed 5+ years no cheating and stable 1-year+ relationships, or no sex after that.

I think something like that is enough to show that she as truly changed her ways. Sure her SMV would decrease with age, but she has a chance to redeem herself. For a CC rider, this is probably harder than quitting heroin + nicotine + alcohol. So if a woman is dedicated enough to go through with this, I'm sold.

[–]FreshlyWashedPillow[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

All wise moves to lower risk as much as possible. I want to reiterate that screening tests are not foolproof (different tests have varying levels of something called sensitivity/specificity, which basically refers to the possibility of false negatives/positives), and that furthermore, for some diseases, depending on gender (for example, HPV in males), they do not exist. In females, they can lay dormant over many years before causing the cervical changes that make the Pap positive. Until they do, she will still get negative screening tests, but your partner is still infected and can still pass it on to you.

[–]cazzah123 0 points1 point  (9 children)

This shit scares me. I'm 24 and slept with like 16-18 different woman. I've worn a condom maybe 3 times my entire life.

[–][deleted] 12 points12 points

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[–]cazzah123 2 points3 points  (2 children)

What kind of stuff coukd I have that has no symptoms?

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

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[–]TheBadGod 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Take the porn star route;

Get yourself tested every 28 days.

It's what I did and I'm as clean as a large, hairy whistle.

It's like an oil change; A racecar needs them more frequently than a minivan.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points

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[–]TheBadGod 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I still call it a mark of responsibility as a sexually active man.

If I was worried about catching something from a woman, I'd stop fucking altogether.

My views on condoms are highly unpopular on Reddit, so I'll keep them to myself.

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