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Red Pill TheoryPractice somewhere else. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by 1abadplayonwords

If you read the sidebar, as well as some brilliant posts, and start implementing what you've learnt, you'll be well on your way to a successful life as a man. However, a lot of men find it difficult to break away from their computer screen and actually start working towards their future as a better man. I have read, and agree, that a large reason for this comes from the fact that humans used to live in small communities, and that our brains evolved to worry about what others thought so we wouldn't be outcasted from the group.

If you find it difficult to randomly approach women on the street or in clubs/bars, or if you find it difficult to be rejected by people or to voice your opinion then it could be because somewhere in your mind, either consciously or subconsciously, you are worried that other people will find out and that it will get back to you or your group of friends and you'll be outcasted from the group. While we know this is a load of shit because of the pure size of the population these days, the thoughts still remain.

A solution which helped me is to drive, get a bus, get a train, whatever and just go. Go as far away as you can until you remove any uncertainty about whether or not this will get back to you. Go somewhere that you will never have to go again in your life if you don't want to. You won't have to go far, maybe 10-20 miles max, until you find a community in which you can feel confident that you can approach women and practice what you have learnt and it won't get back to you.

Once you get there, start approaching, start getting rejected, start voicing your opinion, it doesn't matter because no one you care about will know. Do this as many times as you like, and as often as you like. Once you feel more confident and see results, you can start implementing what you have learnt in your home town.


[–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 108 points109 points  (4 children)

This is also why women get so slutty on vacation. They don't worry about being judged by anyone and do whatever the hell they want.

[–]vaginatron2014 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I think it may also be the fact that they are more relax in general and want to have a good time. Also they drink more while they're on vacation.

[–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Nah. Women have a massive purity shield that you have to break through to get anywhere with them. They care a lot more about what other people think about them than men do and all of that goes out the window when they are in a new place and don't fear a long term judgement.

[–]Redrog1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That does not explain why they also go sex crazy when they go for half a year to a college in a different country.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 350 points351 points  (8 children)

This is what we want to see in TRP. Not Taylor Swift lyrics, not whining about how tough it is to pick up blondes when you're Indian, not debating about whether some non-contributing asshole should be banned for calling someone else a "misogynist".

Actual. Helpful. Fucking. Advice.

To succeed, you must free yourself of the fear of failure. Because when you are trying to succeed at anything worth your time, you will fail over and over again before you succeed. Why?

Because if you don't fail most of the time, you aren't trying difficult enough things.

Any tip that helps any man free himself from the fear of failure is gold.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba 14 points15 points  (6 children)

if you don't fail most of the time, you aren't trying difficult enough things.

Learned this over 30 years ago, but the psychologists have found that a success rate of around 80% is optimal to keep a subject motivated as well as continuing to learn. If you're failing most of the time, you aren't training your subconscious to have familiarity with success. If you're succeeding much more than 80% of the time, you're right - you're not pushing yourself enough.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (4 children)

Depends what is defined as success. For example in sports is every attempt at scoring a goal that doesn't result in a goal, a failure?

If that is the case I disagree. The success rate can be as low as 10% in that case and I'd be happy for most sports. However only winning 10% of the games would be very demoralising after a short while.

I think what matters is the penalty for each failure and relative success rate. If the penalty is very small, much higher failure rate can be tolerated. And if the success rate is higher than those around you for a similar task, that is also very encouraging even if it is low in absolute terms.

This thread gives a nice tool to lower the penalty for a failure.

[–]Red_SoloCup 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Risk/reward definitely has an impact. If you bat .300 in baseball, you're considered a successful hitter. Thats a 30% success rate, which isn't even close to 80%, but you still feel good about it. However, if you win 30% of your games, you're on a shitty team.

[–]Ovadox 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Maybe it isn't 80% success, it's being in the 80th percentile with respect to your level of success at a given task. In other words, how do you stack up against those around you?

[–]Red_SoloCup 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd like to see a study on that. Thats a good point. Maybe its considering yourself successful 80% of the time?

[–]john1443 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are right. When taking to women, it might be a success to approach 8 women in one night without hesitating. With one you hesitate but approach and another one you see but don't approach. This might be a sincere success.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't have a problem with someone quoting this with "a lot" instead of "most".

However, the most successful people are the ones who try the hardest things again and again until they succeed at something spectacularly difficult.

20% may be the failure rate that the average person can absorb, but the more we can handle, the more difficult the obstacles we can throw ourselves at.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Awarded.

[–]zxsteven 50 points51 points  (3 children)

This is one of my favorite things to do on days off. Take a ride to a new town and explore. It's like being in a live action book.

What kind of people live here?

Where do they work?

What are their lives like?

Stuff like that.

[–]1abadplayonwords[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Yeah me too, it's always fun exploring new places!

[–]zxsteven 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Plus, it's like building something. Say, you like 1 or 2 things from this place, something from over here, a few things in that town. Now you can use that knowledge to help other people, thus strengthening relationships.

[–]hugeveinycock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do this too. I love driving by myself to new places and observing.

[–]AlphaAsFAQ 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Just be a "tourist".

  • Find out the closest international travel destination near you where people from overseas would be coming to visit
  • Book a couple of nights in a popular hostel (private room) in the middle of town
  • Check in early and hang out in the hostel common areas all afternoon
  • Befriend as many people as you can. This is so easy in hostels as everyone wants to create and share experiences when they travel.
  • Go out with said people at night and have a great time

This is cost effective, risk free and almost guaranteed to get you laid as most of the girls you meet are going to be from overseas who would love to land a guy from the country she is travelling through.

If anyone asks what you are doing at the hostel, just say that you always wanted to travel around your own country more and don't want to sleep in your car. What?! You have a car?! Can me and my girlfriends please get a lift in a couple of days to where ever you are going as we don't have a car and buses are shit. Yeah sure, let's go to the next tourist hotspot together, get a shared dorm at the next hostel and party more.

Are you getting more pussy? Sweet. Are they only using you for your car? Just bail and drive home.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 22 points23 points  (9 children)

That's an excellent idea. Even living in the urban sprawl of Los Angeles, where there are contiguous cities 100 miles in every direction and anonymity is a virtual given, it's easy to get stuck in a rut of fear of breaking out of your established character.

[–]1abadplayonwords[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Exactly! This is your chance to be the man you want to be without any repercussions

[–]SparkyTemper 4 points5 points  (3 children)

This is a great idea. I just got my motorcycle license so I was thinking about riding to another town to do this.

[–]_eskimo_brothers_ 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Not only that, but IMO riding alone is meditation.

Man... I need to get another bike.

[–]Ek70R 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and riding an awesome bike, leather jacket, aviator sun shades is a great attractive trait to women, and a great conversation starter IMO

[–]HeinousFu_kery 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A jeep with the top down ain't bad either...

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]JovianTrainWreck 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    You're in a slightly worse boat than I am, but the solution is the same for the both of us regardless: prioritize your finances and move the fuck out. That's one of my long term goals is to live closer to any sprawling city than I do now, and I'm finally making some headway.

    [–]circlhat 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Before you do this please read some simple PUA on how the flow of conversations should go with a random women. Its not hard, but it helps to get a starting point.

    [–]Seishuu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Would you mind giving a starting point for this? A link or something.

    [–]Black-Pill 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    I think this is excellent advice just on its own but there is also it has a very important added bonus that you should consider as well. The women you are approaching are also thinking about their actions being spread around their immediate circle of friends and community. If you are an "out of area/towner" then she can and will be more willing to do things with you than with someone who she might have to see again in her neighborhood. This tactic really plays well into a woman's ASD. Just being "from somewhere else" can actually bump your SMV significantly

    [–]1oldredder 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    That's because all the cheaters that don't want to get caught now know they won't get caught. Most women want to cheat.

    [–]Ek70R 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    man... thank you so much, lately I ve been struggling and wondering about WTF to do when I see I really beautiful chick down te street when Im riding my bike, or driving my car... how should I approach her? what do I say? how do I say it? etc etc. Im gonna start reading the side bar and going to some remote place to find girls and start talking away, testing, failing, improving, learning from my mistakes, appart from /r/seduction and the sidebar of this subreddit, any other source to learn how to get confident and eliminate anxiety?. thank you again bro

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Most of the time though, the answer lies in realizing that no one in your community gives a fuck about you either. This is a good fix, but as a man you need to be stepping up and taking risks WITHIN the areas of life that make you uncomfortable.

    You want to get away from this mentality of "I go into PU mode when X and Y conditions are met." No, you're always in the mode, you go through life and attractive women appear and you go for it regardless of the circumstance. Go force yourself to run game in the places where you feel nervous and self-conscious. When you do it there and make it happen, that's when you'll make the real gains.

    [–]1oldredder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    in a small enough community a man like that will either be rejected and ostracized, for real, or will be the top dog man-whore and the women will love it and the married men / men who are long-term boyfriends will be pissed because you're fucking all the women. Seen that, made my alpha friend who's like that very happy but he didn't give a shit what anyone else thought.

    [–]night-addict 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Thanks for this, you don't know how much this means.

    Four months ago, I was in Korea. I absolutely stopped caring about people's opinion of me, and started acting like the nutsy motherfucker I actually am, as opposed to the ordinary citizen I am usually back in Australia. I was no longer afraid, and it led me to some amazing lays.

    My only remaining question is this: how to apply that fearlessness I found overseas to my home community.

    [–]A_Becker 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I love the RP movement. There are so many truths behind its philosophy. But sadly, this is the first post I've seen that hasn't been aggressive or fake-macho "Look at me, I'm alpha!" posts.

    Thanks for your post. ~Noah

    [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children)

    This makes sense, but I live in a small town, where everyone somehow knows each other. So the chances of it getting back to my friends is real. What should I do in this case?

    [–]1abadplayonwords[S] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

    Then this is perfect for you! If you live in a small town it is easy to get out of and there is likely more towns within 20 miles. Go to one of these towns where you don't know anyone and where you don't have any business and practice there.

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Oh, haha right. Good point. Not sure how I missed that. I'll give it a shot!

    [–]MKG24 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Farmersonly.com - god speed, brotha.

    [–]HeinousFu_kery 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    SOP is "100 miles from the flagpole" for various indiscretions and misdemeanors. I live in a rural area and have found that 40 - 50 will do for the central Midwest. If you're in the Missouri Breaks (or the Outback of Oz) somewhere, it may be a good deal farther.

    [–]aakksshhaayy -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    Take a drive to the city or a neighbouring town... that's exactly the point of this post.

    [–]BPtoRP 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    While this is a perfectly valid solution, the root of the cause is feeling awkward with someone rejecting you. This is perfectly normal, to associate sexual rejection that are dependent on a thousand other factors than you with social rejection. But you need to internalize how illogical this is as much as possible and experience the laughs that come with meeting a cold approach again on the same subway. As long as you end interactions on a good note even if she rejected you, it won't be awkward at all, you'll just be catching up.

    Think of it like a salesman in a shop. Does he get offended when a customer checks out his shop and leaves?

    [–]krustytheclown2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    But it is hard sometimes to look it that from that lens when you are thinking about going for an approach. Your rights tho....but its always a little tough for me.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Fail your way to success.

    Failure, way to success.

    [–]Apanthropos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This is not just a trip you go somewhere and come back. This is a way of life. You have to constantly push yourself to break your confort zone. That is how confidence works. If you stop doing it, you will loose it.

    [–]SOwED 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    If anyone doubts this works, just think back to a time you went to summer camp. I have always called this the Summer Camp Effect, and it occurs whenever you're in a situation where you are temporarily far from home. You know that your reputation in this situation can't really come back to bite you, so you're much more willing to take risks.

    This effect also arises during study abroad programs, which is why people fuck like rabbits while away.

    [–]Dyalibya 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I have had a mentality of not giving any fucks in my own local community, I got shot down many times, but never regretted it

    [–]tropicalfire 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Can you give some examples of some stuff you read/learn from the sidebar that you can apply concretely?

    Such advice is given everywhere on this sub, but I find that it always stays very abstract.

    PS. I did read the sidebar

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    absolutely great advice. it's kind of like sandbox mode for approach.

    the main anxiety i deal with when approaching is that I will become "that guy". I live in a fairly small city so the possibility exists. However there's a metropole within an hour train ride so i go there to practice.

    [–]abcd_z 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Alternate suggestion: Start small. Like, ridiculously small. Maybe you could ask an attractive woman for the time, and that would be the only thing you would expect from yourself for the day.

    If you try to take on too much, you run the very real risk of expecting too much from yourself, getting overwhelmed, and doing nothing. It's far better to take it one small step at a time, and allow your change to occur gradually, naturally over time.

    You'd be surprised how effective it can be.

    [–]thisjibberjabber 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    After reading the title I thought the advice was going to be to not come on this sub and try to AMOG anonymous people on the internet.

    The actual advice is probably more useful. Trying new ways of being does risk awkwardness.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Also, if your having a good convo with a girl just ask.

    If your in the beta stage of giving a shit when she says no then get over it

    [–]peeweekid 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Yeah, During spring break I got like 3 girls' numbers in like two days. The confidence over there was like 100x more than at home because I live in a small town.

    [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    If I had the money to go on a spring break sex vacation I'd get zero numbers. It's f-close every time, sex or bust.

    [–]peeweekid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yeah I was with family so not exactly prime for that kind of thing. I was more interested in planting a seed for when I come back next time.

    [–]1Soarinc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Is there any set of youtube videos that show mixed results when approaching women?

    i.e. one way I found works to lessen rejection anxiety and fear of rejection was an old show on VH1 where I was able to see other guys go up to women and see them fail as well as succeed

    [–][deleted]  (12 children)

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        [–]GC0W30 5 points6 points  (4 children)

        How old are you?

        Once you are a certain age, clubs are NOT a fun place.

        [–]widec 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        I remember going to the club when I turned 19 and had my advances rejected by pretty much every girl there. Turned me off from that scene for sure, it's one where a minority of guys can be successful.

        [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        a guy at 19 has years to go before he develops the looks women want most of the time. You should try again at age 25, it's a world of difference the attraction women have. They want older guys.

        [–]Fearltself 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I'm 22 and I agree, clubs are not fun for everyone. But it's not like the only option is to pick up girls on the street or clubs. There's lounges, live music bars, sports clubs etc all of which are much better for meeting girls than randomly on the street.

        [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        what, 50? I'm 38 and I'm still fine in clubs to dance with hot girls. I never pulled one there, always elsewhere I find the women to fuck, but I will one day. Normally the girls act bitchy or are attached so I'm so/so on bar girls but they dress really skimpy. Normally I hook up from social contacts, sex first always and in the past only ever girlfriends after lots of sex.

        [–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This is scary for most guys for a reason, and shows why comfort zones exist. Approaching random girls on the street is creepy/pua behavior and should be avoided. Pestering girls who are just going about their day is not how you should be trying to pick up.

        Time to lurk more, son. I'll give you two weeks to do that.

        [–]stilllearningsed 1 point2 points  (3 children)

        Holy shit. You are living SO FAR inside your own comfort zone its cringe-worthy.

        Approaching random girls on the street is creepy/pua behavior and should be avoided. Pestering girls who are just going about their day is not how you should be trying to pick up.

        Kowtowing to feminist male-shaming. There is absolutely nothing wrong with engaging other people in public. The idea that people 'just want to be left alone' is projecting your own insecurity.

        Yes, this is where it's socially acceptable to approach random strangers.

        Fuck socially acceptable, current social norms are largely gynocentric pandering to the 'I don't want to FEEL uncomfortable' as if never being uncomfortable is actually normal.

        Don't handicap yourself by trying to pickup girls in non-social setting.

        You mean where the bitch-shields are up and gynocenterism is at its peak with plenty of white-knights ready to jump you the moment some dramawhore decides to sic them on you? Pass.

        No. Just No. Repeat after me, rejection DOES NOT breed confidence.

        W T F. Rejection breeds thicker skin, which breeds DGAF, which eventually breeds confidence. This is so contrary to TRP I don't even know what to do with it. Being rejected is part of being male, you HAVE to get used to it or you're forever controlled by your fear of it.

        If you are good at reading social cues and body language then you should never be getting rejected.

        Bullshit. A girl can give you all the right cues and STILL reject you for reasons completely outside your control. The illusion that you CAN control every variable so you'll never experience rejection is a fantasy sold by the very PUA community you just denigrated.

        You should never act in a way that you would be worried about your friends or social circle finding out.

        Again, good god that comfort zone. Nodding heads are BORING. If you're not producing friction in your social circle you're a doormat. You can never please everyone and you shouldn't try. Not to mention, unless you've massaged your social circle into a rare bastion of rational thinkers that don't depend on media-fed social norms, then what many of your friends think is unacceptable is exactly what you SHOULD be doing.

        Go ahead and live your life in fear, keeping yourself in your comfort zone so you never offend anyone and don't get ostracized from your boring, media-regurgitating social circle that is exactly the same as 90% of the other boring sheep out there.

        Don't damage your reputation by doing silly things you wouldn't do around your social circle.

        I find this the most laughable. You have to be noteworthy to even have a reputation, your whole post advocates being forgettable.

        [–]Fearltself 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        Kowtowing to feminist male-shaming. There is absolutely nothing wrong with engaging other people in public. The idea that people 'just want to be left alone' is projecting your own insecurity.

        I never said you couldn't engage anyone. We're social creatures, there's nothing wrong with striking up a conversation in a line at the grocers. I do have a problem with stopping someone who is clearly walking somewhere - you don't know their situation, they could be in a rush. Hot girls are a dime a dozen so I have no idea why you would prefer to attempt to pick them up on a street as preferred to a bar.

        You mean where the bitch-shields are up and gynocenterism is at its peak with plenty of white-knights ready to jump you the moment some dramawhore decides to sic them on you? Pass.

        I'm really not sure what to make of this statement. Getting laid in a bar is not hard if you have your shit together. Why are you making it out to be some Hurculean feat? Bars are fantastic for socializing, socializing leads to adult activities, do the math. Why shoot from the free-throw line (day game) when you can do a layup (bar scene)?

        W T F. Rejection breeds thicker skin, which breeds DGAF

        I've been on TRP for a few months, I'm not sure where it's written that rejection breeds thicker skin. In any case, that's not true, that's just bullshit people feed themselves to make them feel better about being rejected. You read my post right? We are using the same definition of rejection? So if you ask a girl to go home with you and she says no, this breeds confidence? That's laughable. A girl would rather go home and masturbate with a plastic toy than have sex with you...and THIS breeds confidence? Girls WANT sex...they are a motivated buyer, getting rejected means you can't even sell somebody something they already want. I look forward to you explaining how this transaction, or non-transaction breeds confidence. Having sex with an attractive girl breeds confidence....and getting shot down by an attractive girl breeds confidence??? You can't have it both ways. There is success and failure, and it's important to own your failures and not treat them like successes.

        Bullshit. A girl can give you all the right cues and STILL reject you for reasons completely outside your control.

        I've never experienced this. The only thing I can gain from this statement is that maybe you are not as good at reading cues as you think you are. Reply honestly please, how many times a week do you frequent bars/clubs?

        Again, good god that comfort zone. Nodding heads are BORING. If you're not producing friction in your social circle you're a doormat. You can never please everyone and you shouldn't try. Not to mention, unless you've massaged your social circle into a rare bastion of rational thinkers that don't depend on media-fed social norms, then what many of your friends think is unacceptable is exactly what you SHOULD be doing.

        You are totally put words in my mouth. I've never said to be a nodding head or a boring person, of course leading an interesting life will improve your status within a group and improve success with girls. I've also never said you should try to please everyone.

        I find this the most laughable. You have to be noteworthy to even have a reputation, your whole post advocates being forgettable.

        No, my whole post puts emphasis on not being a beta/creep. Being labeled as a pathetic loser who "daygames" is much worse than being forgettable. My post emphasizes self improvement, improving your financial status, clothes, appearance - tangible things. If you excel in this areas you will not be forgettable since people who excel in these areas are few and far between.

        Thank you for actually responding and having a conversation instead of just downvoting.

        [–]1oldredder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        In any case, that's not true, that's just bullshit people feed themselves to make them feel better about being rejected.

        It really works. Most men are afraid of rejection emotionally. I'm not but most are. I actually am more afraid I'll get a crazy bitch I can't get rid of later.

        Having sex with an attractive girl breeds confidence....and getting shot down by an attractive girl breeds confidence??? You can't have it both ways.

        nope.

        It's a numbers game: unless you're ugly you'll get a girl, just do this with 50 and you'll get 1 to 10 of them. Not every girl wants the first guy that comes up for her so she'll take the 3rd or 5th that does regardless, as long as he's not ugly or obviously beta and can't convince her he's not.

        [–]stilllearningsed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Thank you for actually responding and having a conversation instead of just downvoting.

        I actually assumed you were a TBP/PPD troll and didn't want the few half-right bits in your post confusing someone into thinking you were giving good info. Since it appears you are sincere I'll pull back the snark and try and point you in a better direction. You'll notice the mods have already spoken on this, you have some sidebar reading to do.

        I do have a problem with stopping someone who is clearly walking somewhere - you don't know their situation, they could be in a rush.

        This is a blue-pill mentality that results in pre-rejecting yourself by building a stack of assumptions on someone else's state of mind and thus assuming they are toobusy/outofyourleague/haveaboyfriend and will reject you so why try. You seem really stuck on this idea that day-game is obnoxiously intrusive and thus creepy. This is another blue-pill mentality. There is nothing stopping that girl that is actually in a hurry from saying 'Sorry, I'm in a rush, can't talk' and just walking away from you, which is what she will do if she is immediately uninterested. The girls that ARE interested stick around and love the 'randomness' of how your connection started, these are the 'it just happened' moments of their dreams.

        Hot girls are a dime a dozen so I have no idea why you would prefer to attempt to pick them up on a street as preferred to a bar.

        Because bars appeal to a certain demographic, one which I've found I don't largely enjoy, particularly away from the bar setting. I've been MUCH happier with the quality of women I pull from day-game. I'm not saying I've never met a quality girl in a bar, its just a skewed ratio. Which leads to ...

        I'm really not sure what to make of this statement. Getting laid in a bar is not hard if you have your shit together. Why are you making it out to be some Hurculean feat? Bars are fantastic for socializing, socializing leads to adult activities, do the math.

        Certainly, getting laid in a bar is ridiculously easy. What I was listing was not hurdles that make it harder, its an environmental setting where the possible negatives are amplified because the women feel more comfortable being shitty to people in general. I get rejected all the time doing day-game but, I experience massively less bitchy rejection and I attribute this to the poison of the gynocentric bar setting. In any bar where people meet to hook up WOMEN ARE THE PRODUCT and they know it.

        Why shoot from the free-throw line (day game) when you can do a layup (bar scene)?

        Because taking the easy way out is always the best choice. /sigh

        Having sex with an attractive girl breeds confidence....and getting shot down by an attractive girl breeds confidence???

        The whole paragraph this is from is a trainwreck but, I pulled this one out because it shows your core problem. You're still basing your confidence externally. Being rejected by or taking home a girl does really nothing to my confidence because I don't base my view of myself on what some random girl thinks of me in a specific moment. My confidence is internal and based on what I think of myself. This also speaks to why you only take 'sure bets' which you reframe as always being successful.

        I've never experienced this. The only thing I can gain from this statement is that maybe you are not as good at reading cues as you think you are. Reply honestly please, how many times a week do you frequent bars/clubs?

        This in particular amused me given your previous denigration of PUA. This sounds very PUA. You still seem to believe success/failure with a girl is entirely up to you. This is delirious. You can only control, at best, 40% of someone's response to you, the other 60% is up to them and their current situation and state of mind. The idea that you HAVE to be out at bars/clubs X times a week is a massively PUA thing to say. As I've mentioned above, I'm not a huge fan of bars for bars sake, its not an environment that leads me to women whose company I actually enjoy most of the time. I go to billiards halls with my guys or to venues for the music and I pull girls from these outings no problem but, its incidental to my actual reason for being there. I never go to a bar just to drink as I'm not a heavy drinker and I certainly don't go to bars just to pick up girls.

        No, my whole post puts emphasis on not being a beta/creep. Being labeled as a pathetic loser who "daygames" is much worse than being forgettable.

        I remember this mindset and fear from my early days getting back out there. You know who makes you a creep? Your insecurity. The fear of being called a creep is like an exponential modifier for actually being called a creep. When I was pulling PUA shit and running lines, being non-genuine I did get called creepy. You know what changed? I stopped being afraid of being creepy and stopped using all the insecure fake shit. I started being an unapologetic genuine version of myself, its been a long time since I've been called creepy.

        My post emphasizes self improvement, improving your financial status, clothes, appearance - tangible things. If you excel in this areas you will not be forgettable since people who excel in these areas are few and far between.

        You are still afraid of being rejected. You're focusing solely on tangible things that reduce the chance of rejection because you haven't gotten your headspace right. There is absolutely no question all of those things are important and should be worked on by every man. What they shouldn't be, however, is an excuse to wait until you're 'perfect' so that you never have to experience rejection.