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Red Pill ExampleAWALT as I found out three times in seven days (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Over the past week I have had a total AWALT experience with one women (and one set of parents). Firstly I don’t consider myself a typical red pill’er - I’m 54 married for 26 years and everything I want mainly by being the man and taking care of me first.

My eldest has what I thought was a great GF, quite like my wife, and he had plans to to get married. He is 24 and been in a relationship for 2 years but who's to judge I got married after 16 weeks. This is his choice and I think he knew what he was doing until this week. The arrangements are being put in place for autumn this year and his GF was not acting like a bridezilla at all. Well until she asked my son to ask me to write her into his trust fund.

Now I’ve always been very careful with money made my first €m by 25 and have excelled since….so I put a reasonable amount into trusts from each of my children removing it from my total estate and ensuring that should anything untoward happen then they were protected but in a controlled way. So son and GF approach our family lawyer about a prenup which they jointly agreed on and were happy with and of course the lawyer discloses the trust fund’s existence. Her reaction is that of course she will be written into it.

Umm no, I set it up to protect my family and its money NOT to provide a open cheque book to whoever my children sleep with. The trust has a “legitimate offspring” clause which only allows for proven descendants of mine to benefit. The draw down by my children can only be for reasonable expenses and a moderate lifestyle. I drive a 10 year old car and live in a modest house so why should I fund extravagant children.

She has gone totally ape shit over this … calling off the wedding unless my son gets me to change my mind and rewrite his trust fund. Apparently I am disrespecting her and she should not have to deal with such a pig of a man. Over the weekend her parents had dinner with us and the only topic of conversation was how unreasonable I was being. I’m just not looking after my family the way I should.

My son bless him has just said to his GF deal with it, dads not going to change his mind so either marry me and live a good life or fuck off. She just won't leave him or it though and he’s getting fed up so had a half hearted attempt to change my mind yesterday but we agreed over one to many beers that if she was in it for the long haul then it would not matter….

Not sure what will happen, son is pissed at me a little but at her an awful lot more, I think she'll accept his alpha status and go with it but am not sure.

TL;DR - AWALT no matter how you look at it.

Update: My wife had lunch with the (now probably ex)-GF today to see how things are.

Son went off on planned skiing trip with the boys and hasn't spoken to his GF since Friday when she refused to come to dinner with us. He's back tonight but hasn't invited her over to us for dinner. She is is beside herself that she has fucked up totally and fished for an invite to dinner from my wife; GF thinks she has lost the "best thing in her life" and doesn't want to be like her mother. Son, in her words, told her to "grow up" and "get over it", as they left the lawyers office. In her words it wasn't that he said that it was the way he did not take her feelings into account. The way it is now I'm pretty sure that he's moved on and the shit test failed big time for her. I can't help but say I won't be glad if it is.


[–]DarthRoach 501 points502 points  (83 children)

I am pretty sure this situation makes it 100% clear that the girl only sees your son as a meal ticket.

[–][deleted] 52 points52 points

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[–]Endorsed Contributorbalalasaurus 130 points131 points  (12 children)

So she wanted to protect her inheritance yet expected to be written into your son's trust? Haha the cognitive dissonance is unbelievable.

[–]DreamBoatGuy25 38 points39 points  (2 children)

Seriously this.

It would not be strange at all if women literally walked around with cartoon dollar signs over their eyes.

[–]beginner_ 6 points7 points  (1 child)

When I told my LTR few days ago I got a raise, these $$$ signs where jumping around like crazy in her eyes. She was way more excited than i was and behaved like a little kid. It was pretty weird...

[–]thisiskindofmessedup 19 points20 points  (8 children)

I would LOVE to hear how she rationalizes this. How does she make this make sense in her head?

[–]Niketi 56 points57 points  (1 child)

"What's mine is mine, what's yours is ours."

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The only "sense" it has to make to her is "I WANT!!! GIMME! GIMME!"

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Women are savages from the stone age and you know it

[–]GC0W30 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Was the tipping point perhaps when she realized the scale of your wealth?

[–]_eskimo_brothers_ 113 points114 points  (33 children)

Thankfully OP is RP and is part of the .05% who has protected their assets, even down to his children's children. Nobody is entitled to shit in this world, OP is fortunate enough to offer his children a good life, but more importantly good values.

Hopefully your son sits her down and tells her how it's going to be or perhaps she isn't worthy of being HIS wife. I don't like how many women today feel like a man leading the family or being the captain automatically makes them think, "Oh god, it's not the 1950's! Things are different now!" Yeah, there are hell of a lot more divorces or shitty marriages. I'm not saying the 1950's are the gold standard by any means, but the sense of entitlement in current generations is sickening.

[–][deleted] 93 points93 points

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[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 22 points23 points  (3 children)

You're a proper patriarch. If I had any desire at all to have a family, I'd likely run mine the same way you run yours.

This is what people don't understand. Order breeds prosperity - order as dictated by a benevolent patriarch. That prosperity, in turn, creates the opportunity for people to pursue self-actualization and self-fulfillment. You can't be truly happy when your home is falling apart around you.

Nowadays, most women just want to pursue self-fulfillment (always to the detriment of people around them as well as themselves) without first creating order in their environment.

[–][deleted] 13 points13 points

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[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Absolutely true. ♂

The only thing women are equipped to preserve is their own feelings. It is the Prime Imperative.

The preservation of anything else involves effort, conflict, and/or hardship, which feels bad and therefore conflicts with the Prime Imperative.

This is why women compulsively quit early, complain, and demand help the moment things start getting tough.

If you ask my wife she has all the freedom she could ever need she has been free to pursue her successful career because of the discipline we have in the home, free to to dress how she wants because of the choices we've made about where we live, free to devote time to charities and good causes because of the choices we've made, and most importantly of all for me free to have as much sex as she wants because I never say no (then neither does she).

And that's the funny thing. Feminists don't realize that, from the moment of their movement's inception until now, they have benefited from the order that men toil thanklessly to create. The only reason a woman can stand on a soap box and burn her bra screaming is because of the men who made the soap box, the bra, the lighter, and the breakfast she ate that morning.

Women need our order. The smart women are the ones who have the good sense to admit it, and who show their appreciation so that we feel rewarded enough to continue providing it.

[–]bebestman 23 points24 points  (7 children)

Can you talk some more about what your intentions are with the trust fund? I am a subscriber to /r/financialindependence where the topic of inheritance came up with mixed responses. Personally, I'd like to leave my descendants the possibility but not the incentive not to work, that is they should never starve for not working or be dependent on the state, but they shouldn't live a great life on grandpas money either.

[–][deleted] 93 points93 points

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[–]mryddlin 76 points77 points  (0 children)

This is literally how western society has made great stides and progress.

You've given your offspring the chance to realize their full potential and that is a rare and precious gift.

You are a credit to our entire way of life, thank you for thinking of the future.

[–]bebestman 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Thank you for your answer. Reading through biographies of great scientists, philosophers, artists, a disproportionate amount came from well off parents that have provided their offspring with the gift of not having to worry about financial security. However in modernity quite a sizeable population looks down upon this kind of thing - dare I say it is financial alpha versus beta?

Reading your motivation and situation inspires me and gives me some more motivation to set up something like a trust fund if I decide to have children.

[–]colovick 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If you have the kind of money needed to do a trust, you can afford the $10k to have a tax lawyer setup the fund for you as you decided. Providing something like $15k + cost of living increases and exceptions for major life crisis's (medical emergencies and the like), and you'll have a framework where they can live comfortably while working, but not be living a great life if they refuse to.

You'd need % based maximums to ensure the fund continues to grow and provide better for future generations, but again, those are things that'll be easily done by a competent professional.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (12 children)

Yeah people find it really strange here in Sweden for really checking in with my parents for every "small thing" like not telling them I will be home later than 10 but ASKING them if I can be home later than 10. I was raised this way, we have standards and manners in my family. My father is Armenian and not trying to generalize or stereotype or anything but those fuckers are as alpha and redpill as a human can come. I really do make sure to thank my parents for everything and for the awesome life they have given me so far and also when you are mad etc it doesn't matter you just don't raise your voice over your parents.

EDIT: Being born in Russia you also really get true values drilled deep into your brain and it's not often someone will be an entitled princess cunt there. And when you take this mentality from a shithole to a high class western country you get the best of both worlds.

Yeah small rant, but the point is: you are raising your children right, we are a small percentage and I hope your children will raise their children the way you are.

[–]whyalwaysm3 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Same here bro, I'm bosnian and my dad was the same, very alpha. Most kids in the USA in my opinion aren't raised properly, if youre out in public it's very obvious to see.

[–]UgUgImDyingYouIdiot 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Bosnian? Did you come over in the 90s? I have many Bosnian friends who were refugees they are very traditionalist and I admire their familial convictions.

[–][deleted] 9 points9 points

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[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And like it or not, it's the best way to raise a man. Tough love. Instead of raising him to be a little edgy sjw entitled cunt..

[–]chinawinsworlds 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Agreed, Eastern Europeans and Asians, actually anyone other than Americans and Westerners, are much less likely to be entitled princesses.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Come to Japan mate, you will change your mind instantly. Literally every women is massively out for beta bucks, and goes at it SO hard it is not even funny. Well, it is funny to me, as I have been RP since day one. Watching my mates here get married and then the predictable no sex frumpiness kick in is hilarious.

[–]whyalwaysm3 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sounds like to me you've been a good parent, kinda reminds me of my dad, he demanded respect but also gave it out and he raised us the proper way. Back to you, I think you're absolutely correct in not allowing your sons GF that, and to be honest even if she is finally okay with it and ends up marrying him I don't think this will last or end well for your son. She seems to have shown her true side and your son should take a few days off and rethink his idea of marrying her.

[–]1Dev_on 1 point2 points  (0 children)

sounded like he didn't even sit her down. Just gave her a drive by 'deal with it'

[–]denmaur 54 points55 points  (2 children)

Apparently so do her parents.

[–][deleted] 35 points35 points

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[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 130 points131 points  (27 children)

If a girl has any intentions of marrying anyone, that person is likely to be their meal ticket.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 115 points116 points  (11 children)

Some are more subtle than others...

In all honesty her behavior and the behavior of her parents is pretty much spot on with that of gold diggers. Kudos to OP for being a true alpha male and denying her request and shining a light on her true nature.

I'm glad his son is far more pissed at his fiance than the OP though. Shows that OP raised his son right.

[–]Dev_on 5 points5 points [recovered]

Not sure of the country, with the euro though, I can assume that OP is either of new money? He talks as if he's not though...

She literally had no idea of his financial status until the lawers? Want to see if it's possible planning (get me a rich one) or more opportunism?

[–]666Evo 6 points7 points  (9 children)

Now I’ve always been very careful with money made my first €m by 25

Sounds like new money to me. Doesn't mean prospective daughter in law doesn't know what's up and wants in.

[–]1Dev_on 2 points3 points  (6 children)

I dunno. A lot of the lords and such aren't neccisarily rich, but have the higher class. the more I hear about it, the more I realize I don't understand it

[–]666Evo 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Good point. I still think, based on evidence in the OP, he's simply a man who worked his shit out early and made some serious cash.
Maybe his old man worked hard and saved well, but wasn't necessarily paid well? Instilled the value of the dollar in OP who then used that, plus business savvy to make himself a small fortune.

At this point, it's all speculation.

[–]drqxx 9 points10 points  (0 children)

My Solution: never get married (again)

[–]Heizenbrg 3 points4 points  (7 children)

It depends though, my gf studies her ass off in grad school for tech and management positions, she's more likely to be my meal ticket.

[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 31 points32 points  (1 child)

If she senses you are using her as a meal ticket and you have nothing else to offer, expect her to swing branches.

[–]Heizenbrg 4 points5 points  (0 children)

of course always be aware of that and improve everyday. also, lifting does wonders.

[–]1kick6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

her parents too, apparently.

[–]1jb_trp 75 points76 points  (0 children)

Red flag! Red flag! Hopefully your son turns around and runs before it's too late...

[–][deleted] 146 points147 points  (13 children)

Amazing how much effort women put into NOT having to put in effort to make their own money.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 55 points56 points  (12 children)

Must be why so many business grants are for 'women run businesses'... because women just like to get paid they dont like to work.

[–][deleted] 89 points90 points  (11 children)

I used to work for the federal government, and have seen the "woman-owned business" phenomenon more times than I can count...goes something like this:

  1. Work your ass off setting up a business
  2. Put it in your wife's name, then beat out your competitors for government contracts because you're a "woman-owned business"
  3. Your wife gets a divorce, taking the business and the lucrative contracts with her
  4. Business goes to shit, and the contract never gets renewed

Welcome to the federal government

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 24 points25 points  (4 children)

Hehe... yeah. If I went that route I'd put the business in my mother's name. She's at least she's a smart enough woman to know not to screw up a good thing.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Wow. I've never even considered this.

I have a client whose official name for their business is "A Woman Owned _______" but I've dealt with the husband 100% of the time. Wow. You just blew my mind.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

That's what I'm here for. In truth, there are a number of minority categories a business owner can try to go for, but "woman-owned" is often the only one that's readily accessible. Toss in a little BP programming about marriage, teamwork, and NAWALT, and it looks like a perfect course of action.

I seldom saw a business owner who's black or a veteran do this, because they have their own status. But white dudes? Every damn time, seemingly.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Did they ever think of putting their mothers as owner?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm sure it's happened, but I've never seen it personally. On a practical note though, there are several factors working against that arrangement.

  • Judging by these guys' age, most of their mothers were already long since retired or dead.
  • A mother and son are not the same unit as a husband and wife, from a legal perspective. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it would likely be more complicated

And frankly, most men are not RP enough to see the forest for the trees...even if they know it's happened elsewhere, most men are still thinking NAWALT when it comes to their wife.

[–]fastball21 46 points47 points  (7 children)

This story comes way from a friend of my father's, which I'd heard years ago. I wasn't privy to all the details, but this is what I understood. My father's friend had a son getting married, and the father offered his son a house to live in which he would provide. He told his son to pick the neighbourhood he wanted. The son chose X neighbourhood, the father found a very nice house, big enough to raise a family, nice yard, good schools. When the bride found out she pouted that it wasn't Y neighbourhood, an area of multi-million dollar homes. The kind of place you end up in your 40s or 50s, not when you're 25.

They get married, two and a half years later she throws her husband out and initiates divorce proceedings. She didn't put the house up for sale but did have it assessed. That's when she found out it was in the name of her husband's father. He didn't buy his son a house, he provided a house for him to live in until he'd saved enough money to do what he wanted.

To top it off the son worked with the father in his family business, a multi-generational, multi-million dollar company. Like any business where the father grooms the son to take over, he had his son start near the bottom and work his way up, so that the son understood the business at all levels. She divorced her husband too soon, before he'd worked his way up to making astronomical money. She didn't know that he was earning less than her at the time. For his first decade after school, his bonuses never came in the form of money, it went into the company he was going to inherit.

End story, divorce goes through, she received no alimony, no child support (no kids). She had to move out of the house, the son moved back in and stayed another few years until he bought a place for himself.

She went all in and showed her cards before the dealing was finished.

[–][deleted] 17 points17 points

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[–]Dev_on 6 points6 points [recovered]

I never knew about LLPs and trust for holding personal wealth. I'm starting to think my education really has done a disservice..

[–][deleted] 9 points9 points

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[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 40 points41 points  (3 children)

They way I understand your comments this is just typical hamstering.

Women cannot stand not getting the maximum out of just anything. If I got you right, she didn't know about that cake nor how big it was before the prenup.

She thought she had maxed out on your son and gotten everything there is to get. She was completely happy with that. Now that she has seen that precious treasure chest your son is sitting on, her hamster is going apeshit about the fact that she desperatly needs to get a hand on it.

I don't necessarily think that this is a huge red flag, a big drama or something. It's just business as usual.

You've handled it decently up to now in my opinion, but I also think that it's time for you to have a talk to your son about his responsibilities, which include teaching his soon-to-be wife that there are options, options for her in this relationship and future marriage.

He needs to stand his ground there and he needs to get rid of his strawman: you. He cannot try to come off as that nice guy who wants his girl to get a grap on that money, but you are the one preventing it.

What he is doing now is trying to stay out of the line of fire and avoiding to take a position. He's got too much respect for you to take her side and he is too much affected by her to take yours. He will inevitably have to make a choice here between teaching his fiance her place or becoming her 1st mate.

I regard this situation as a major shit test which might even set the future course for the marriage.

I respect and share your opinion on "a man must make his own mistakes", however I also believe that a loving patriarch should step in and give genuine advice if a matter threatens family peace and I think you might have such a situation here.

[–]whatyearisthisagain 116 points117 points  (11 children)

Of course she is pissed. She has worked hard for that money, and now you are denying it to her.

And by working hard I mean she could have spent her time elsewhere, successfully luring unfortunate men into divorce rape.

[–]1mojo_juju 54 points55 points  (10 children)

And what shitwad parents of hers... I cant believe they went to dinner to ask for money.

rats deserve rat poison.

[–][deleted] 22 points22 points

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[–]newls 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I just don't believe the disrespect one can show to a future father-in-law. I'd never dream of going to my ex's dad and expecting him to give me money just because I was boning his daughter. It's just out of the question and completely inappropriate, I had way too much respect for the guy. He helped me in loads of other ways and that was from his own generosity.

Young men have been taught so regularly to fall at the knees whenever females shame them that the whole world seems to have turned itself on its head.

[–]Sunshinelorrypop 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I would have paid to have been there. The sheer audacity of it.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Unless they have atrial fibrillation, in which case they don't deserve any rat poison.

[–]longshot1710 5 points6 points  (2 children)

No one else enjoyed this quality medical joke?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'm glad at least someone enjoyed it!

[–]Trenstate 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Very true. It's one thing to be poor, but to go asking for money is just having no self respect or decency, and despite the popular beleif on on this sub not all poor people are lazy, stupid, or both.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (10 children)

She wants not just a piece, but the whole pie. Does she bring anything to the table at least?

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[–]the_red_scimitar 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If she is indeed that spoiled, you are not only right in bringing that to light, but also in holding your position.

[–]Trenstate 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I think that underneath it all she is just a spoil child who has been conditioned that its her way or nothing else.

You just described the modern woman, and I'd wager it is worse here in the good ol' USA than in the UK.

[–]newls 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nah it's still pretty bad, but I haven't met enough American women to compare them.

Mainstream media is extremely feminised. Women are significantly over-represented at universities even though there are still government-funded groups and charities set up specifically to get women into university. Scotland's closing down women's prisons because apparently women are incapable of evil.

So pretty similar to the USA. AWALT after all. On the plus side there's no such thing as common law marriage nor alimony.

[–]occupythekitchen 8 points9 points  (0 children)

you should tell your son the trust in his name is yours and is a gift to him and his kids not a marriage gift. He can spend his stipend anyway he wants including his wife but that is all shell, get the allowance the trust gives your son.

[–][deleted] 47 points47 points

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[–]csehszlovakze 10 points10 points [recovered]

Having kids kinda invalidates any prenups, too.

[–][deleted] 23 points23 points

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[–]autographplease 21 points21 points [recovered]

Please talk to your son, and tell him what you think. He needs you more than ever right now. Please show him how she truly views him.

[–][deleted] 28 points28 points

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[–]Sunshinelorrypop 9 points10 points  (10 children)

Just don't let him learn with your money. Make sure that prenup is watertight.

[–][deleted] 18 points18 points

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[–]imnotsupersure 2 points2 points [recovered]

Sorry I'm not entirely familiar with trust funds, but can I set up my own trust fund and keep my wife off of it and use it as a safety in a divorce?

[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus 2 points3 points  (3 children)

The essence of a trust is that you cannot be both the Settlor (the guy giving away the money) and the Beneficiary (the guy entitled to the money) yourself. So technically you cannot set up a trust of your own money for your own benefit. But in theory it is possible if you set up a trust with a beneficiary whom you trust absolutely.

But it's very risky because the nature of a trust is such that once you set it up, the money is no longer yours. You have no right to it, only the beneficiary does. So you would have to absolutely 100% trust the person you chose as beneficiary to return the money to you. Hope that makes sense

Source: legal education.

[–]1beerthroway 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree with the strict perspective you've given on your parenthood up to this point. Maybe he is in need of learning through experience and I'm not going to act like I know more than you. Having been there myself, looking at marriage, talking with my parents, I wish they had been clear on what their decision and opinion would have been, even if I didn't go through with it.

As a young man in today's society, everything appears wishy washy. It's nice to see a clear concept and have someone in your life who has clear and consistent decisions. My parents didn't ever flat out day they disagreed with me getting married, so I did. And then I got divorced. Later they told me, "we knew it was a bad idea all along but you wouldn't have listen to us anyways." Fuck that! Pissed me off. I saw it as a pussy move that they were afraid of confrontation.

Again, you know your family and situation better than any of us. In my experience, if rather hear "son, if a woman is that upset about money now when things are good, imagine how much more worse it'll be when things are bad. This situation shows clearly what her intentions are in the marriage and you'd be wise to keep that in mind."

Not all learning requires failure and not all failures lead to learning. Teaching effectively leads to learning.

You do sound like a great dad. Do what your judgement thinks is best, the world isn't going to end because of it.

[–]RojoEscarlata 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I can respect that, and seeing as how you are and how you raised your son he most likely will take the right decision.

That being said there's somethings that are better not let to chance and giving him ALL the knowledge possible is a must.

Have you showed him this place? (TRP I mean)

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–]RojoEscarlata 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well you don't have to link him to this particular thread or give him your ID, hell you could delete this thread after it served its porpoise.

But consider sharing this site with him, it will help him in the long run.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 18 points19 points  (2 children)

DO NOT YIELD. This is all just one giant shit test, and quite frankly from the sound of it she's just betrayed her true intentions: she sees your boy as a walking wallet, at least in part.

edit: I just had a thought...

If you really want to see what she's made of (temporarily) wipe out the trust and make all of this a moot point.

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (6 children)

I’m 54 married for 26 years

made my first €m by 25

My eldest has what I thought was a great GF, quite like my wife

I got married after 16 weeks.

You and your son have more in common than you think.

[–][deleted] 8 points8 points

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I posted my comment when the post was new and you hadn't had a chance to answer any questions, etc.

It seems that you were able to lead very well in your relationship with your wife and to keep a happy and healthy marriage.

Good work with your boys as well, your son will be alright.

[–]UltraMittens 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Yeah the timing is just too coincidental

[–]Praecipuus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I also did the math and this immediately crossed my mind as well...

[–]DreamBoatGuy25 13 points14 points  (8 children)

It shouldn't even be a matter of her accepting that you're not going to change your mind. As soon as she even asked to be written into it, your son should have punted her. And she even made a big deal of not being written into it and had the gall to call off the wedding? Good, this chick is so far from marriage material it's laughable.

OP, do your kid a favor and clue him in. This is a woman he's about to commit the entire rest of his life to. They haven't even gotten married yet and she's already causing problems and revealing her ugly true self. It's only going to be downhill from here. There are plenty of women out there who can at the very least do a better job of covering up their slavish worship of money.

[–]thisiskindofmessedup 11 points12 points  (10 children)

Over the weekend her parents had dinner with us and the only topic of conversation was how unreasonable I was being. I’m just not looking after my family the way I should.

WTF?? I can't see a man saying something like this. What has her dad been saying?

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[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I can't even imagine their private discussions on it. "Damn him for not entitling us to the money he set aside for his children"? How could one not feel greedy just thinking about the reality of what they're doing? I guess they don't care much.

It's a bit ridiculous. I honestly can't believe it even still.

[–]Squeezymypenisy 7 points8 points  (7 children)

You laughed in his face right? I would have been on the floor laughing during the dinner.

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[–]Squeezymypenisy 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I consider laughter to be maintaining frame. You can laugh and smile with frame. Its when you lose your temper and become emotional that you lose frame.

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[–]1Dev_on 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I like OP...

he stands his ground, but isn't self richeous over it.

Wish more people took lessons from him, especailly in here

[–]iLLprincipLeS 9 points10 points  (1 child)

In 1968, the new coalition of minorities and white ethnic minorities overthrew the old WASP order and replaced it with a Leftist social and political order. Since much of the founding story of our country involves individualism and individual freedom which requires equality, it was easy to graft this neo-Communist outlook into what we considered our identity.

That was fifty years ago. Since that time, everything has gotten worse in every way possible; in fact, we see enough things going wrong that we recognize misrule, or that our leaders are incompetent. Furthermore, we see that they became our leaders because they said things which seemed to fit with the new identity we had chosen.

Consequently, and not just in the USA, people are throwing out the 1968-era changes. They are removing Leftists from power because among us all there is some kind of inkling of recognition that Leftists are just bad, an old WASP term which implies that they are somehow genetically flawed or otherwise broken in terms of their immutable traits of character.

The magnitude of this shake-up has yet to be fully felt. Although technically a “conservative” politician, Merkel embraced the Leftist agenda in full, promising great social benefits and more diversity in order to fund those. When voters saw the consequences of her actions, as with Obama, they fled the other way.

The Left got to power by promising armchair solutions. If we just became tolerant, diverse, and pacifistic, we could eliminate social problems by giving people what they want instead of, as those fusty old conservatives argued, setting standards and rewarding those who attain them. The hippie revolution was powered by civil rights and diversity.

We were seduced by equality because it promised a lovely dream: we could stop fighting and just co-exist, with each person living on his little plot of land while being tolerant of all the different people around him. It turns out that this vision misses what we share, which is a civilization and its standards, and so that vision collapses in a pile of failure whenever it is tried.

People who endorse chronically failed dreams are pathological. We recognize that there is something broken about them: an inability to attach to reality, a dishonesty that allows them to adjust expectations to fit results, or some other fundamental separation from responsibility for their own actions. This mentality is dangerous in unexciting ways.

People have turned their back on it because now that diversity is here, we see that it results in identity politics, or every country being composed of lots of little special interest ethnic groups who are warring it out. Each group acts in its own self-interest alone. This means that groups inevitably clash, and ordinary people hide away.

Even worse, we see that we are going to be taxed to death to pay for these new underclasses, limiting our ability to have children at a reproduction rate that ensures that we will continue to exist. Robin Hood policies of taking from the successful to give to the unsuccessful penalize success. Diversity accelerates this process.

In Europe, diversity was sold to the population as a way to pay for the benefits which are going to the 1968 generation. The bovine voters, generally cowed by anything that might destabilize the fragile workings of tenuous societies, went along with it, until it became clear that the policy was not working, and the migrants were going to drain and not fund the benefits state.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Rock on. What fun.

I like your son's response. A great line in the sand dread game.

Now- I DO understand her desire in this. She wants to be an "equal partner" which means having shared bank accounts etc etc etc. 10-20 years ago the advice I would have given the engaged couple is "What's mine is yours and yours is mine".

Now? Fuck that. Divorce is so dang common and YOUR money would then get split AT LEAST 50-50 if not 100-0.

Of course, this little deal could potentially put a wedge between all involved. Not the quality of your son, his ability as a provider, his character, ambition, future prospects, how he cares for her... nope... money.

[–]-Universe- 7 points8 points  (0 children)

She's not marriage material. She should be happy that they are getting married, not angry because she isn't getting money. She was threatening to call off the wedding because she isn't getting money? GOLD DIGGER.

Talk to your son. Don't let him ruin his life by marrying this girl even if she agrees to the term. If this is how she behaves, she will be threaten with a divorce in the future in case things don't go her way after the wedding.

[–]tropicalfire 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You are a good father really. I just wanted to contribute by saying this. I admire you.

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[–]beginner_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just make sure you lock your door when taking a shit from now on...

[–]BlatantTRPThrowaway 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Oh wow, you're like the big good of The Red Pill: "Legitimate offspring" clauses, millions by age 25, a stable marriage...You're probably the best example of someone who only benefits from TRP so much as "needs" it to change his viewpoint -- you've already got the viewpoint in spades.

Time to open up the TRP trust fund and let your spoiled heir enjoy the wealth of knowledge you can bring him.

[–]doublereignbeau 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Legitimate Offspring clause. Words do not describe how much I want to buy OP a beer.

[–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 6 points7 points  (1 child)

On the bright side... Bitches are simply hilarious!

[–]Endorsed Contributorbalalasaurus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People say that the joy of children ends once they leave the home. But with a woman in the house the joy never really ends does it?

[–]1kick6 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’m just not looking after my family the way I should.

  • Trust fund for the son
  • proven descendants clause for the grandkids

Check and check. Nope, I think you're fully looking out for your family, and it's utterly fucking disgusting that two generations of your son's fiance's family are looking for a meal ticket from you using that statement. Fuck them all.

[–]thinktankman 9 points10 points  (7 children)

You're a good man but now might be the time to give your son the pill. Filter it by starting with

Son do you know why your mother and I have a good marriage?

Teach him abundance mentality?

Teach him frame?

Give him books to read like no more Mr nice guy and book of pook.

The fact that he tried to convince you to change your mind shows he needs some insight.

If my gf did some shjit like this, one look would disgusting serious look from me would change her.

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[–]NotQuiteRedPill 4 points5 points  (1 child)

No pussy is worth a trust fund. LOL.

And I completely agree with PROVEN descendants. I have DNA tested my two children. They're Mine. Had I not done that, I would have put PROVEN on the will.

[–]Soriq 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not budging in your decision. Legitimate offspring clause.

http://i.imgur.com/A7GYkGr.gif

A beta father would do it because he "wants his son to be happy". Nice work man, seriously.

[–]SexySadie216 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I lurk like hell on this sub, and while there's some shit on here that just makes me feel sorry for certain individuals and the ultimate disrespect they've received by certain female individuals that turned them into very disgruntled men... I agree with I'd safely say 85% of TRP observations as a whole.

This post has brought me out of the shadows to let you know... This will never, ever end for you. There's a very good chance the inklings of money have been revealed to her over the last 2 years, the trust "revelation" was just the catalyst to have her go full blown "entitled princess." Sir, this is not right. I would encourage your son to think long and hard, perhaps even receive some pre-marriage counseling with the intended topic being her behavior about this subject. The aspect of her parents' reaction... That made my skin crawl. Stick to your guns, whatever you do... But I'm sorry to say I don't foresee a happy outcome.

Your legitimate offspring clause shows your intentions. To provide for your family and take care of them for as long as you can. If she is a respectful, loving wife and mother, of course she will be provided for. It doesn't require a pen, paper, and lawyer. It disturbs me she's holding a marriage over your son's head, even having her parents involved with it, over what YOU worked your entire life for. It's disgusting, and I'm truly ashamed of her.

I feel sorry for your son to have been revealed such a nasty, true nature. Good on him for sticking to his guns, too. That's a strong, capable man that is willing to take care of her and hold his place in the relationship, whether or not she sees that. I'm glad to see his balls will never end up in a purse, an unfortunate reality of what I see in plenty of close, male friends and their relationships.

Good luck. Stand your ground. If she walks, thank god more time, money, effort, and emotional investment wasn't wasted on such a frightful human being.

Edit: Corrected to omit dirty, dirty rule breaking. Thank you both for pointing it out.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The "tits of GTFO" rule exists for a reason. You are not an exception to it.

It's okay if someone can infer from context that you have a vagina, but don't wave it about unless you brought enough for everyone.

It earns you no extra points here.

I am deleting your comment. I will reinstate it if you edit it and delete the first sentence.

[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Your post is well-thought out, so I'll leave it be this time.

However, if you lurk as much as you say you do, then you should already be aware of the Tits or GTFO rule (see the sidebar link Posting and Commenting Rules).

DO NOT mention your sex in your post. It is not relevant.

This is a warning. Please observe the posting rules in the future.

[–]wanderer779 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I think I'd tell my son if he's dumb enough to marry her then he's out of the trust.

[–]NickCiufi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It actually might be a good idea to give them the choice. Either he can be in it, or neither of them can be in it.

[–]Niketi 4 points5 points  (11 children)

As an objective observer, do not ever crack on this no matter what kind of pressure the rest of your family puts on you. You're being reasonable (and smart) here. She's quite clearly in it for your money. She feels entitled to the option of divorcing him and living on your hard earned money when she gets bored of the marriage. She's so furious because women really do feel entitled to it. You're denying her her birthright. The price of the vagina.

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

TL:DR Woman see Men as a resource and become angered when others do not cooperate with their sense of entitlement.

[–]1Dev_on 1 point2 points  (0 children)

TBH, theres a second lesson on here, a little more subtle.

Everyone keeps suggesting he uses the trust fund to enforce some kind of expected behaviour, effectively turning the son into his BB...

He holds his ground there. Let the boy rise and fall by his merits, he just sets his limits, and lets things happen

[–]WarmApfelPi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Once again reminded of my favorite quote from beige philip. "You know what women want most? MORE"

[–]reddiforlove 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The notion that you would write her into your trust fund is laughable.

I would feel insulted that she would even demand such a thing, but relieved that she let you know what a shrew she was before you were legally family. Your son shouldn't be waiting for her to leave, he should've already dumped her. Her parents sound like nightmares too.

[–]LukesLikeIt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Threatening to call it off this early? Guarantee she'll be pulling the "I will divorce you if you don't do 'x'" card multiple times within a year.

[–]juliusstreicher 14 points15 points  (4 children)

You need to jerk a knot into Sonnyboy's tail. WTF do you mean that he 'made a 1/2 hearted attempt to change your mind'...After the first request from her, he should have kicked her ass out the door. This bitch's ass should be last viewed through a 787's window. Are you still speaking to her or her family? If so, you shouldn't.

And then, your son comes back and makes a second try? You should have kicked your son's ass out with that 1/2 hearted attempt. Or, at least, told him to grow some balls. Instead, you two go out and get drunk...and talk about it? Bro, it seems to me that you are not seeing the essential component in this vignette.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

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    [–]1Dev_on 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    where they can talk about the things that bother them without it spilling out into their wider world.

    you patriarch commonwealthers, always have that strong sense of under emphasis on things. :)

    [–]Riddick_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    May as well. Pick the best shovel in the hardware store, paint it gold and silver and hand it to her. Through her car window. Now, of course we are civilized right. Who would do such a thing? This whole thing is not about love, is about money, otherwise she wouldn't be throwing a fit. And she would agree with her man, and let him lead the way as it should be. You did the right thing from the beginning, don't change it now.

    and regarding this:

    Over the weekend her parents had dinner with us and the only topic of conversation was how unreasonable I was being. I’m just not looking after my family the way I should.

    They disrespected you in front of everyone. You know they tried to shame you into changing your mind, or at least try to soften you, and "give you a chance" to prove yourself by changing the deal. Fuck that noise. An apology would have been in order, immediately, right there - so everyone can hear it. And then make them repeat it. Louder. You did what a real gentleman would do, you kept quiet. Whatever you do, don't go change it.

    [–]bhormaci 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I wonder where your son is at in terms of his short term and long term goals with respect to this situation? If he wants to marry her (specifically marriage and not just enjoy the benefits without it) but doesn't care about the timeline perhaps he could easily take control of the situation by explaining "ok well obviously we're not ready to marry" and then insist that he be the one to broach the subject in future.

    It sounds like your family is pretty old fashioned...anyone in my family would just say "ok well I guess we're not going to get married then" and that would be the end of it...it is generally women who want marriage since they gain more from it with the current legal system...a woman who says "I won't marry you unless <x> is fulfilled" would seem to me to have no power whatsoever...

    Edit: It occurred to me that this is actually a really fortunate problem to have...a true test of wills and the dynamic to come in the relationship for your son and it happened BEFORE the marriage-to-be has started.

    [–]the_red_scimitar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Stand absolutely firm. Her true intentions are quite obvious, and in the end, you will be doing your son a truly enormous favor.

    [–]C00l_Guy 2 points3 points  (8 children)

    Take your boy on a camping trip and during the trip educate him about this succubus. He needs to know some chick disrespecting the head of the family is unacceptable.

    [–]1Dev_on 1 point2 points  (7 children)

    he's from the UK, they don't camp.

    Better to take them small game hunting in wales or something

    [–]aazav 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    Amazing how she feels entitled to the results of your hard work, isn't it?

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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      [–]wanderingfun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      ...the younger ones still don't and I want to keep it that way for a while.

      I've first-hand seen the results when children are made aware of family wealth too soon, and it is ugly. It stunts and atrophies any spark of self-motivation to achieve.

      If you have to wife up a woman for children, make absolutely sure she is on board with TRP-informed stoicism and the general proclivity to conceal power/money as advocated by 48 Laws. Most women are not appropriate child-rearing wife material, as they too readily use their children's activities as proxies in vying for attention amongst their friends, and if that attention-seeking and activity too often involves flashy, copious spending for short-term feels, you're in trouble. She's then not focused upon rearing the children, and instead feeding her hamster.

      The vast majority of the money spent on rearing children should be of the boring, unseen variety, supporting the acquisition of knowledge and perfection of skills that will be used throughout their lives. That money spent includes opportunity costs you willingly give up to exchange for more time to spend with them one-on-one. The feels should mostly come from realizing long-term achievements and goals, and not from the exchange of money for some goods or services.

      Social networks today make it really easy to detect this red flag in women who use them (and nearly all of them in the First World nations do); watch how any potential LTRs use them, and map to how she would present your children to her friends on those networks.

      [–]thedude122487 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      If I were your son I would be seriously reconsidering my relationship with her. She is massively disrespecting both of you over money that, for all intents and purposes, isn't even supposed to "exist".

      And yes, if she was in it for the long haul it would not matter one bit. The fact that she's making a big deal out of it makes it look like she wants a piece of the action in case if they divorce. Not only that, but she is sabotaging her relationship with your entire family by disrespecting you AND sabotaging herself by pushing your son to consider not marrying her. Then she wouldn't get shit no matter what. That's some hardcore hamstering female logic right there!

      If she were rational, she would have dropped it by now. Greed knows no bounds.

      [–]hibloodstevia 2 points3 points  (7 children)

      Tell you'll do it she sucks your dick. Then either way you're covered. Of course under no circumstances write her into the trust.

      On a more serious note, it seems to me that this can be resolved with a simple question put to her: why? Just keep asking why no matter what she says. Eventually she'll say something that will reveal her greed.

      [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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        [–]the_red_scimitar 2 points3 points  (4 children)

        So, you're okay with her working over your son constantly, to get him to get to you? I believe you won't cave in at all, but this woman is undermining YOUR relationship with your son. I'd take that personally, and perhaps is one of the "failure lessons" he needs to learn.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [–]the_red_scimitar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Well, I didn't actually say you should DO anything - just was wondering if your are aware that that is about her only avenue, and with her parents pushing her, she'll be working over your son.

          And definitely - you actually have to do nothing, as you've already established a perfectly valid framework that you simply don't have to change (nor would you, obviously).

          [–]thenarrrowpath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I hope you don't give in. It just like you said if she's in it for the long haul then she will see some of that money regardless. Her name doesn't need to be on shit, way to stick to your guns.

          [–]garlicextract[🍰] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          The trust has a “legitimate offspring” clause which only allows for proven descendants of mine to benefit.

          Brilliant! The son is entitled to the money, but not the daughter-in-law; however, if she sticks around, her child will be entitled to the money. But not her. Beautiful.

          [–]pez_d_spencer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Your son should count his blessings she showed her true colors prior to the marriage. Bullet dodged.

          [–]ReddishTablet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          You should update if possible when the dust settles and what the outcome is.

          [–]TheDNote 1 point2 points  (3 children)

          How did you make your million?

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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            [–]LUClEN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            So she's mad that she's not getting something she only just found out existed?

            Sounds like a recipe for unhappy marriage

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            she has destroyed all trust. she will forever be in both your eyes a fuckin WHORE

            [–]paynehouse 1 point2 points  (6 children)

            Does AWALT mean something different than what I think it means? "All women are like that" right? How could this be AWALT when A, not every woman would do this and B, her family feels the same way and that includes a man?

            AWALT is the only Red Pill theory I don't agree with. Anyone want to clear this up for me?

            [–]I_AMA_Naughty_Boy 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            AWALT is not really intended literally. Surely most nuns are not money grubbing CC riders. It's more a point of emphasis that in most every gender based debate a white knight will charge in with a NAWALT comment. As though it exonerates the 99.9% that in fact Are Like That to one degree or another.

            Think of it more as the exception that proves the rule.

            [–]newls 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            It's testament to how homogeneous and predictable women are as a group when we can make sweeping generalisations about them and their behaviour and be correct 99% of the time.

            [–]Rougepellet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Your son should nuke the relationship. This is a massive red flag in my book. Fuck that shit, plenty of other women out there.

            [–]sundaybrunch11 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            The way I see it, it's your money, it's yours to decide on your own. Not even your son has a say, not that much anyway. So for someone outside the family to feel entitled enough to go ape shit when YOU decide to not include them is THE one who is doing the disrespecting. They don't respect your decision and your boundaries; and your son should see it that way.

            IMHO, get her out of your son's life and find a better girl than a gold digger.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            find a better girl than a gold digger

            I guess the right term here is "find a girl that is less of a gold digger than his current one".

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            You must convince your son to not marry; that woman will only leave him miserable and senile in his youth.

            [–]Year3030 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            OP you know it in your gut. Just tell your son he knows what's right because it sounds like he does. Otherwise I would advise you to tell him she's not worth it. But you both seem to know that already. Either way don't budge.

            [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            ur a cool dad. don't give in to her

            [–]abdada 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Awesome study.

            Try Rhodiola Rosea for 3-4 days before flying.

            [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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              [–]apackofwankers 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              You should tell her "As long as you are a loving wife to my son, you will benefit from his trust. The moment you cease to be a loving wife, so too will the benefits end"

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                [–]LeGrandDiableBlanc 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                I know on some level you want your son to be his own man and make his own mistakes. That's awesome, actually.

                There are some mistakes with HUGE consequences, though. You wouldn't be as nonchalant if your son was doing something that, say, might cause him to loose a limb for the rest of his life. A divorce isn't as bad as losing a limb, but it can affect you for the rest of your life.

                Does he really not see how big of a red flag this is? Does he really not understand that if he lets her have this, she will feel entitled to everything he will ever have again?

                You have to at least tell him, "This girl obviously cares more about possessions than relationships. She is demonstrating her character to you right now. Unless you want to deal with the type of person who will throw the nuclear option around whenever she doesn't get her way, you need to find another fiance."

                Also, remind him that the more familiar two people are with each other, the more comfortable they feel treating each other poorly. If this is how she feels comfortable treating him after 2 years of dating, image how comfortable she will feel after 10 years of marriage!

                [–]bhormaci 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I don't think the situation alone means he needs to cut and run...but the result of the situation and how he handles it...where it lands...that does matter.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                OP, I hope your son next's this woman, you know that as soon as they get married she's going to start shitting out kids, gain 50 lbs and make your son's life miserable.

                [–]bourbonhipster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Well until she asked my son to ask me to write her into his trust fund.

                run. run run run. that isnt love. love doesn ask for trust(funds)

                [–]Ball_shan_glow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Didn't anyone see that Chris Rock stand-up? He made a really good point: regardless of how much money you make, every person who wants to get married needs to get a prenup. If the other person goes crazy over it, you know they want your money. I would think this would be a RP standard.

                [–]1R_E_D_1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I so SO hope your son dumbs her. She's a problem waiting to happen.

                [–]InformalCriticism 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Obviously, you respect your son's ability to make decisions in his life, but I see an opportunity here to explain to him that marriage is not necessarily the best way to live anymore. You might be evidence to the contrary, but I don't think it's a stretch to assume he could use some direct advice from you about how to let her go. I am a little biased being a divorcee, but even asking him if he has ever considered a future without marriage might steer him in the right direction.

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