Field ReportFR: Married Guy and The Family Vacation to Disney (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

If you ever want to know if you can hang longterm with an LTR go on vacation together. Nothing beats the dreaded whiny woman when you are trying your best to relax and enjoy some time away from the rat race.

Us married guys get the thrill of not only taking the whiny woman but also taking our kids! And this time, My parents as well.

So how do you survive a family vacation/work trip/wedding weekend/whatever as a redpill Alpha male.

First- MOST families I know- the wife takes control of the vacation. She plans it, maps it out, and does all the prep work. Well sad sack dad works some OT to pay for it. Is this a good idea? NO. If you want a vacation that is stress free and drives your SO into the sack with you- you need to plan that shit.

Sure, get her input. Have an idea of what she wants. She will hate you if you decide that you want a paint balling vacation in an Alaskan winter. But you get the idea.

Want to know the secret to planning a great disney vacation? Get someone else to do it for you. There are a million different sites/people/organizations that will do it for you. With about 10 minutes of emailing back and forth, I had a great Disney vacation planned. You can do the same thing for ANY vacation/day trip/whatever. Spend 20 minutes with google and get a plan together. People love spending all day online talking about how great they are at taking vacations while they eat cheetos and hit the wall. Take their endless online dribble and make a plan. Women LOVE it when a man has a plan.

Second- Kill the "what do you want to do? Where do you want to eat? Do you think this is a good idea?" Conversations. I have three kids. And was dragging my mom and my dad (who is competent enough). There was no way I was going to spend one second discussing what everyone wanted with two women who never know what they want. So I took 5 minutes every morning to plan out the day and they just followed me around.

I told them when and where we would eat. What rides to go on. Made decisions about ride length and when to wait. Simple.

Third- bat those shit tests/dumb women stuff. My mom loves to get really anxious for no reason. What are we doing next? Cant we make it? OH MY GOD IS THAT (I stopped listening).

The key- become the type of man that can say "I got this, just follow me" and watch as the women just soak up this idea. They shut their mouths and enjoy themselves. BUT you do need to be the type of man that can illicit this response.

Fourth- don't let your guard down. Maintain that frame. There were times when I was tired of making all the decision. Resented my wife for not being able to make a simple decision. But I sucked it up and kept going. Because I knew what was best for the vacation and the family.

After a few days at Disney, we went to the beach. Same thing. I dictated the daily schedule, told everyone what we were going to do, and we did it.

The effect? First- my mother. Normally she is a pain to be around because she doesn't stop talking, whining, and worrying. Typical Womanly Behavior. This time around? She was almost fun to be around. Amazing. Because the anxiety of decision making was taken from her hands. She could just sit back and have fun.

The kids? Well, we were at disney for three days and we had zero meltdowns. The kids were on point all day long. Which is a fucking miracle. But that's because I made sure they had adequate sleep, plenty of water, rests, suntan lotion, and decent food.

The wife? Couldn't keep her hands off me all week. Did not stop complimenting me. She raves about how great of a job I did. Versus the pre-red pill days when we would have argued all week, stone cold physically, and she would have resented me for at least a year about the quality of the vacation. She was so fucking at ease all week she could stop the crazy and have fun.

Did I have a good time? Hell yeah. Mainly because it was a test of my development. We as MEN need to test ourselves. This isn't exactly climbing everest or defeating the mongol hordes but the idea is the same. Place yourself in difficult positions so you can test where you have weaknesses. Where you have strengths. And what you can do to grow and achieve greatness.

[–][deleted] 65 points66 points  (21 children)

One of the best things I've learned from his sub is to have a plan. Meaning, for dates, I should pick a place, pick entertainment, decide a schedule, and do it. Makes perfect sense in light of showing masculine initiative and decisiveness, maintaining focus and frame, and leaving out times of indecision or vacillation. One of the more subtle or counter intuitive TRP concepts I've picked up is that even if I decide on a restaurant or entertainment that my date doesn't think she considers ideal, she kind of likes that I have my own taste, don't care too much whether she thinks it's what she wants to do, and go through with it anyway.

Dates and outings have been much smoother and more pleasant since I learned this. I can see why - in my passive days I would have loved to jump along with someone who had cool shit going on and was going to take me for a fun ride.

[–]1jb_trp 58 points59 points  (11 children)

My last girlfriend before TRP told me when we were breaking up that she "didn't feel like I loved her" because I "didn't initiate enough things." Well, I tried and I tried. My mistake was by "initiating" I would ask her, "Hey, do you want to go hiking today? Do you want to do XYZ this afternoon?"

I didn't realize that "initiating" meant "tell her what we were doing that day."

[–]WillWorkForLTC 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Exactly. If she is sure of herself and wants to do something else she will say so, but until then it's up to you to figure it out. Most often they are not sure and need help deciding.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

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[–]SleepNowMyThrowaway 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Well, I kept my upcoming vacation time a secret and planned a week trip to Fla to hit the beach and visit the wife's sister and husband.

On launch day I told her, "I'm taking the dogs to the kennel, and stopping off to buy some supplies; we leave for Florida (a 1000 mile drive) in 4 hours. Be ready when I get back."

This zeroed her usual jitters as they didn't have time to develop, and put the kibosh on her usual 'take 3 weeks to pack for a simple weekend trip.'

My course was kennel>WalMart>bar>home>launch.

No drama, and she was fucking ecstatic the entire trip.

[–]1beerthroway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Extra bonus points for appearing to be "spontaneous". Which you pulled off wonderfully if I may say. Bravo.

[–]1jb_trp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Girls are like liquid. They'll often fit whatever container you give them. I'll often say, "I'm planning on going hiking at XYZ tomorrow. Do you want to come?" Or, "I've been wanting to check out XYZ restaurant. You want to go with me?"

You're the one planning (really with little input by them), but you are "asking" (sort of, they always say yes). The trick is you show decisiveness and confidence. That's what most girls like.

[–]qiang_shi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Context. If you are a dick, then this comes across as such...


Stop worrying about "triggering" people. If they're getting upset on a simple phrase... Then you don't reward that behavior.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

, ever, lol. Like,

Stop with this and read the sidebar about powertalk.

When have you ever heard a woman say that she left a man because he was too bossy? Always error on the side of aggression.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

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[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

You ask for advice and then disagree with me about it. I'm not the one who has relationship problems so go figure it out on your own and stop wasting other people's time if you are not going to listen or have constructive things to say about it.

[–]netgrey 45 points45 points [recovered]

One tip I learned when I was in my PUA phase was to develop a prototype date with several venue changes in one area, and just take every girl through the same date, tweaking it as you go.

If allowed me to relax, I was in control, and I knew everything that could go wrong in each area from experience. It was also fun for the staff to see me with so many different women. I ended up with better service and knowing smiles, which helped my frame immensely.

[–]BourneRedPill 4 points5 points  (2 children)

God damn that is good. It's like a system you design that funnels all the girls and their experience through as you tweak and iterate. That's brilliant. Can't believe I never thought of that.

[–]Dark_Shroud 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Let me jump in because I do sort of this with my family.

Have the places phone numbers and menu's saved in your phone. Even better if you know what you like at those places.

When the waiter comes up you can order drinks and an appetizer ahead of time.

Movies, set the Fandango app to your local theater so only a few swift clicks get you all the info you need.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

to be fair, its a pretty well established pua technique that's been around a while. Well before TRP existed. Very effective.

[–]redpillspeeddate 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I always had a three location date set. 1. Bar or lounge - 1 drink if things go well, 2 drinks. If she is good then we move to spot 2. Make sure you offer your arm as you relocate as you get a ton of info. If it's going well she will snuggle in. 2. Dessert place. Chocolate fondue is perfect but creme brûlée works too. The whole idea is that you share the dessert. Oh we are feeding each other, not to hard to move to a kiss here. Things are well, you of course are sitting beside her never across from each other at both places. Spot 3. Piers, parks, or even better the roof of your apartment building some where with an amazing view that is secluded to. Be just the two of you. This is where you make out, then you can end the date leaving her wanting more or relocate to your place to warm up....

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Meaning, for dates, I should pick a place, pick entertainment, decide a schedule, and do it.

100%. You organize everything. You tell the girl what time you will pick her up and what the dress code is. That's is. If she asks if you want her input, tell her, "I'm the man, and you're the girl. I will handle everything. Your job is to be ready when I pick you up, and to look pretty."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

"I'm the man, and you're the girl. I will handle everything. Your job is to be ready when I pick you up, and to look pretty."

I used to say things like this but I don't anymore because it sets the scene that you are a couple- but she has to earn that right to be your girl, this is just a meeting so keep it lighthearted and don't enforce gender roles incase she takes umbrage to it. It's better to show your intentions with action.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 2 points3 points  (0 children)

don't enforce gender roles in case she takes umbrage to it.

If she's going to be a PITA, I want to know that sooner rather than later.

[–]1Snivellious 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You suggest a pretty key point at the end there - blue pill guys and women desire a lot of the same things in a partner. The whole 'manic pixie dream girl' thing boils down to 'directionless guy wants spontaneous, take-charge girl'. That idea is just so inconsistent with our culture that she comes off as crazy to make the story convincing.

From a practical viewpoint, I've actually had pretty good luck asking myself "What would I have wanted a girl to do for me?" and then doing it.

[–]abdada 180 points181 points  (60 children)

This is how I date and how I interact with the kids of friends.

Women hate decision making. Just make it for them.

I will never ask a woman a question about what she wants or if she likes it. She follows me and it lets her be her best.

Great post.

[–]ErnaForPresident 34 points35 points  (56 children)

What do you do if you are in a situation where you say "We are gonna eat at (Resturant name)" and she answers "No, we went there last week or something similar?

[–]abdada 140 points141 points  (31 children)

"You'll try something new tonight. I love the cheesecake."

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (7 children)

Holy shit that is pro. I don't think I could say that with a straight face tho.

[–]Ryanami 46 points47 points  (2 children)

Exception: this doesn't work at Taco Bell.

[–]ChanManIIX 72 points73 points  (1 child)

Because they don't have cheesecake right?

[–]tuxedoburrito 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Good grief I'm laughing so hard

[–]abdada 30 points31 points  (0 children)

You don't have to. The cocky smile works as well.

[–]qiang_shi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why not... It's totally within the congruent frame of a dude comfortable with assuming the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (21 children)

Yeah that's good, however sometimes you'll get a girl that just refuses to enjoy anything.

[–]BlackHeart89 12 points13 points  (2 children)

I feel you. This isn't always the best approach. Your options are to next her or see what she wants. Some women aren't so indecisive. I've ran into quite a few who offer up what they want, then I say, "cool. Well like xyz too, so thats where we're going". Then everything operates smoothly. If she wants to pick, she'll pick. Otherwise, you make the decisions.

[–]1Snivellious 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This is a good call. You don't have to try to override every decision - people really do have preferences. At the same time, you can cut through a lot of the agonizing by taking an inclination ("Do you think indian place looks good?") and turning it into a decision ("It does, let's go.")

[–]Squeezymypenisy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know my woman hates asian food, so I avoid picking those places when I am going out with her. Forcing her to come there and watch me eat would be stupid and juvenile. For everything else she defers to me.

[–]1xwm 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's a red flag. Don't date those girls.

[–]abdada 7 points8 points  (12 children)

however sometimes you'll get a girl that just refuses to enjoy anything.

No, no I won't.

I don't date outside of my own home and the surrounding parks until a woman passes my vetting of her. She won't taste dinner out unless she's cooked for me a few times.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 38 points39 points  (11 children)

How old are you / how old are the women you date. Because millennial cooking is on par witb Guantanamo Bay cooking.

[–]abdada 24 points25 points  (9 children)

  1. Have dated coeds and taught them to cook.

I don't date women who party or go to bars. Athletic gals who are more bookish than whorish.

Yes, they do exist, aplenty. Just not at the bar on a Friday.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Where do you find them?

[–]rockumsockumrobots 5 points6 points  (0 children)

[Silence intensifies]

Nobody knows because they don't exist.

[–]the_code_always_wins 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Athletic groups, like intermural sports.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I don't think I can do intramural sports since I already graduated.

[–]pl231 1 points1 points [recovered]

they might exist but not sure I'd call it aplenty.

sounds semi-unicorn to me

[–]abdada 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Not semi-unicorn at all as the low energy girls definitely come with flaws.

The place where I've met the most LTR-worthy non-party types (even coeds) is at Whole Foods on Saturday or Sunday morning. Usually they're in their jogging outfits. They're quiet, approachable, don't look hung over.

I have a lot of vetting I do with women in general. Tattoos? Out. Weird piercings? Out. Photos on social media holding a cup or glass of alcohol? Generally out (wedding permitted kinda thing).

My best LTRs all had or have solid jobs with actual important titles. If they were 24+, they owned (mortgage) their homes or flats. They had decent cars that weren't lavish (unless daddy bought it for them). They didn't have more than 1-2 credit cards in their purse wallets. They didn't have $150,000 in school loans for basketweaving. They had actual female friends who were either married or also in LTRs on a marriage track.

Finding them means doing what they are doing, not just going where they are going. Why do you go to a bar (generally)? Women go to bars for (generally) the same reason, at least subconsciously. I hate bars unless I own the place.

I remember going with a buddy of mine not that many years ago to a Whole Foods Friday night cooking class. It was at 7pm. The women in that class were 100% low energy type women. Him and I were really pleased since the ratio of women to guys was 13:3. Can't beat those odds.

[–]pl231 1 points1 points [recovered]

nice dude

the cooking class probably eliminates the hipster crowd too so that's essentially ideal

[–]the_code_always_wins 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TRP is not a strategy to win over any woman. If a woman is a total bitch, nothing you can do. Leave her.

[–][deleted] 21 points21 points

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[–]1Snivellious 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Bullets two and four had some great new insights for me.

Most people know the "Restaurant X or Y?" approach, but it's pretty easy for her to push back against both of them. Proposing two types of food and already having options in mind for them seems like a more solid approach - she can't veto the whole choice because you know she likes both of those types of food. After she picks, you turn that into a restaurant with no hassle.

The new restaurant thing has never failed me, but I never consciously recognized it. There's basically never a fight over a novel place if it looks at least passable, and there's much less room for backlash if it's not good. If it's bad, you both tried a new place and the place was bad. If it's good, you brought her to a new place and she liked what you picked.

As an aside, it can also work wonders to scope out new places without her. If you're eating with friends or grabbing lunch at work, try somewhere new. If you find a place you know she'll like then you can book it and take her no questions asked (and even suggest that she order what you liked). Confidence, preplanning, and novelty all in one, and you learn about a new restaurant.

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points

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[–]1Snivellious 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's a really fun idea actually, I'll have to give it a try. We get into ruts with the same restaurants, so it should be very surprising.

[–]BrunoOh 66 points67 points  (9 children)

"feel free to make a suggestion"


"Restaurant X it is, then"

[–]ont_anon 50 points51 points  (2 children)

A buddy of mine has been practicing the following for years: he gives his wife two options to choose from (and only semi-jokingly says to her "Don't fuck this up!"). She loves it, because she feels like he values her opinion, when in reality he would have been happy to go to either place.

The bonus is that if they get there (whether it's a restaurant, or anything) and she doesn't really like it, she can't complain. He just says, "Well you're the one who picked this place!" and if she continues he just gives her the "Well, you'll know better for next time." Has worked like a charm for well over a decade.

[–]LoudOwl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is straight psychological gold.

[–]ErnaForPresident 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I need to spend more time on this sub. This is genius

[–]shhRP[🍰] 15 points16 points  (3 children)

In my experience, that's a bad idea usually. They generally won't come up with something immediately but generally won't be caught with their pants down, so to speak. A more likely reaction is:

"I don't care, just not there. Italian (or whatever) just doesn't sound great."

Then you're back to square one while you let her question your decision. If she offers something instead that's a good idea, then by all means, but in the scenario where she doesn't immediately offer up a better idea, just be hard-headed about it. It's better to appear stubborn than (appear to be) second-guessing yourself.

[–]rygar_the_red 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I get good results out of, "If you have a place you want to eat, we can do that, otherwise we will go to place X."

It doesn't leave room for that kind of negotiation.

She can either name a place, in which case we will go there, or any other response = we are going to place X.

Doesn't matter either way to me, but usually she goes with the path of least resistance, which is X.

[–]1Snivellious 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep. That set script isn't a great approach - unless you're already handling things right there's no fallback for "I just don't want X".

If you think that forcing the matter and picking X anyway isn't going to go well, then it pays to start with either a binary choice or a second option. You can ask how she feels about X, and if she isn't into it (not just hesitating, actually doesn't want to) then you fall back to Y. No need for her to look dumb or your to look indecisive, just "Then let's go to Y instead, I've been wanting to try that." Alternatively, ask her "Would you rather go to X or Y?" and push back if she tries to shoot them both down and doesn't give a solid Z.

Basically, give her a choice in a well-defined setting of two or three things. Nothing wrong with letting her veto something, but make that part of the plan. No letting her reject every idea and leave you looking clueless.

[–]kommissar_chaR 0 points1 point  (0 children)

but in the scenario where she doesn't immediately offer up a better idea, just be hard-headed about it.

exactly, just say: "well, i'm going there, see you there (or not)"

[–]BlackHeart89 1 point2 points  (0 children)


I've had to do this quite a few times. I usually start with what I want, then if they oppose it, I ask for suggestions. "Nothing? Guess we're going to xyz".

[–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (2 children)

"Fair enough. What are you cooking?"

[–]thefisherman1961 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Usually I respond with, "You have 2 minutes to come up with something better, or that's where we're going."

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Women hate decision making. Just make it for them.

No they don't. Maybe like Decisions with a capital D but they have all kinds of ideas about any small stuff I just couldn't give a fuck, let them have their way. Nothing is more sad than some dude trying to be top dog by micro managing all kinds of little shit. Hold firm on the stuff you give a fuck about and let her have the rest, you don't need to plan every meal and activity in advance, I couldn't think of anything less manly

[–]gg_s 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Have you ever sat in a parked car and waited for a girl to make up her damn mind about her preference? Her "ideas" are nothing more than verbal indecisiveness. She doesn't want to make a decision because she doesn't want to be responsible for making a bad decision. That is why women indeed hate decision making.

Being decisive eliminates the hassle and gives her one less thing to worry about. It is done simply in the interest of getting on with your evening. Women appreciate that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

she doesn't want to be responsible

I think you have just summed up the entire feminist movement, right there. In another post, where we are talking about Bear Gryll's island, there was a point in the first few days where the advance party kept going in circles. They were all bitching at each other and sniping at the leader, especially one woman. So they made her take the lead, which she wasn't keen on. After a while, I think it came to her that she had gone in circles too, so she was desperate to give up the lead before they actually reach that same damn beach again. Just didn't want to be responsible.

[–]Endorsed Contributortepper2 78 points79 points  (8 children)

Ctrl + F "space mountain"

Zero results. You failed miserably. Worst father/husband/son ever.

Taking control of a situation, even a family vacation, is the mark of a strong male figure. Good job. The most important point:

We as MEN need to test ourselves. This isn't exactly climbing everest or defeating the mongol hordes but the idea is the same. Place yourself in difficult positions so you can test where you have weaknesses. Where you have strengths. And what you can do to grow and achieve greatness.

Nobody grows within their comfort zone.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I did not tell them about space mountain. hah. they are still young so next time. But yes, failure!

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Nobody grows within their comfort zone.

Yeah man Disney World pushin the limits

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hah. I know I would get shit for saying that.

[–]laere 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I remember my first family vacation with my Dad, step-mom, and sister, back in '97, I was 9. He planned that shit out like a pro.

Not only that, but when we got to Space Mountain, my sister, who was 7 at the time, kept nagging him. "Is this ride scary is this ride scary??" and he kept reassuring her, "yes, don't worry everything will be fine, it's a kids ride."

Once we hit the drop after the first climb, all you could hear was my sister just balls to the walls screaming. Fucking laughed my ass off after the ride. Funny thing is the same thing happened before at Splash Mountain, her face in the picture was fucking priceless.

[–]1beerthroway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And your sister probably loves telling that story to this day right? Getting all the validation, "aww your dad was so mean!" She's happy that she got shoved on it, isn't she?

[–]LukesLikeIt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no comfort in the growth zone, but there is no growth in the comfort zone.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 19 points20 points  (0 children)

It can seem like a lot of work to plan every last minute detail of a big undertaking, whether it's a family vacation or a team-task.

But planning the details ahead of time will save you a lot of effort later - effort in trying to bring people's sudden dramas to heel.

Do yourself a favour and be the pre-emptive leader that your tribe needs.

[–]mykonos_rm 17 points18 points  (1 child)

we need more posts like this.

[–]1R_E_D_1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Then go make them.

[–]oldbluebox 14 points15 points  (2 children)

I can't stress enough the whole "telling" vs "asking" what to do.

I just got back from vacation with my girlfriend and so much time and stress was saved by just making decisions for us rather than the 15 minute back and forth of "what do you wanna do?"

[–][deleted] 9 points9 points

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[–]1Snivellious 5 points6 points  (0 children)

A thing that I think people underestimate here is the power of spinning this as a win-win. It's decisive to say "I don't want to do that, we're going to do this instead", but it's also demeaning. If it happens every time, she'll be (rightfully) unhappy.

If, on the other hand, you come back with some version of "That sounds nice, but I think we could do it like this!", then everyone's happy. Her idea was considered and approved, but you took charge and showed her a good time by being decisive.

As you say, consulting people is good. It doesn't mean you have to surrender the choice.

[–]BlatantTRPThrowaway 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Wow. A genuinely informative field report as opposed to the "banged a chick with pink eye and hepatitis C in a McDonald's bathroom"-type garbage we usually hear.

Glad it's all working out for you so well. You're leader of the pack and it's unquestioned.

[–]psyflux 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Want to know the secret to planning a great disney vacation? Get someone else to do it for you.

I go through AAA for anything travel related. It's the closest thing you'll find to a PA these days.

[–]RedVillain 32 points33 points  (4 children)

I had a father like you thankfully. Everything from vacation to family dinner was planned by him. He kept a tight schedule and if you weren't in the car by 6 to go to dinner, you could help yourself to leftovers. He wasn't a harsh disciplinarian either. He often asked my mother or my siblings what they'd prefer on a particular outing or vacation, but ultimately he was in charge. Women and children WANT to be lead. They need to be or it throws everything into chaos. It shouldn't be so fascinating.

How did men become so lazy in society? Cool report.

[–]skermy 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Rise of office jobs last century, possibly. Jobs that require more brains than brawn/instincts might have softened a lot of us into the BP realm. Just one theory among many.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

my father was also like this, and so too is my SO.

there is nothing more comforting and pleasant to a woman than to be cared for and led by a strong, capable man.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the path i strive to go down.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Everything you said in this post is also true in running a business, or in just being a manager. You take suggestions, and make a plan with the end goal in mind. Then go for it. You may have to encourage people along the way, but never stop heading for that goal. When you take the lead it makes life easier for everyone else, and they are happy. There's no stress at all. It is high pressure, but the payoff is worth it. Great post!

[–]robo23 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Regardless, a vacation to fucking Disney with a wife, children, AND my parents sounds like a personal hell on earth.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Great writeup and great example of how taking command and control of the situation makes everyone happy. Oddly, most people like being led and will love you for it, especially kids. Kindergarten Cop was pretty accurate in that respect - when the teacher let the kids do what they wanted, they walked all over him and were miserable. When he established boundaries and discipline, they loved him.


I've found that even my male friends like being led. One time we met up in NYC for a few days and I pretty much took control and led the whole way. At one point I said, "Hey guys, I've been calling all the shots but we don't have to follow my plan," and they just replied, "It's all good - you're hitting nothing but net so far."

[–]tedted8888 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People fear / hate responsibility. Theres a reason alpha is at the top.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It really depends on the woman. My ex bitched and moaned at every decision I ever made. Her favorite thing to say was "we should compromise" which I have come to understand is just woman speak for "i'll get my way eventually". No matter how confident and decisive you are, some women will just poke, poke, poke until you cave just so you can have a few moments of silence. I am no stranger to this behavior myself. I did it to my parents when I wanted that Nintendo 64 when I was 8 years old. The difference is that I had to grow out of that behavior.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 11 points12 points  (1 child)

At the begining of the post you said you had three kids, but as I understand it you have five once your mother and wife are included. Great post.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Hit the nail on the fucking head

[–]einexile 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When I was much younger I had these cool in-laws who would come to visit, and they would take my ex & me around to various awesome places; and even though none of them were douchebags and the destinations were always fun, the experience was almost always aggravating as hell because every half hour or so it was "What should we do next? Where should we eat?" And so on. I'm sad to say I behaved like a bit of an ungrateful twat on these trips, and I never quite understood why.

You don't have to be a woman to see the life sucked out of an otherwise enjoyable time by slipshod planning and wishy-washy leadership. You just have to be in the back seat of the car.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don't get me wrong I'm glad you and the family had a good time but I gotta say that sounds like a lot of work for what's supposed to be a vacation for you too.

[–]cortisolsucks 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Question/Devils advocate - it seems like you are doing all of the work while the wife relaxes. Is that what's going on? Is that ideal? I like relaxing.

[–]true_detective_sf 3 points3 points [recovered]

I find that it's good to have my girlfriend do work that cannot be fucked up by careless decision making.

  1. Spending an hour on hold with comcast
  2. Cooking dinner (using specific ingredients that she knows I require)
  3. Managing the property we rent out on airbnb: she does an ok job at this, but I really need to spec out the work carefully or we don't get 5 star reviews. (our guests are mostly women, so you need to do a lot preemptive ass kissing / texting them perfect directions / etc)
  4. Paying the housekeeper / grocery shopping / making appointments for me.

On the other hand, I only take a couple vacations every year. These need to be perfect. I let her plan our trip to Italy, and it was a borderline disaster. She changed our entire trip to meet up with her cousin, which caused us to downgraded from business class to coach, and lose the non-refundable tickets. She failed to have a rental car ready, not realizing that all of the cars in Italy are stick shift, which neither of us can drive. Her plan also caused us to drive an extra 400-500 miles. I'm not sure how the relationship survived that. She did manage to book us at terrific hotels, so perhaps that is a good task for a woman.

[–]cortisolsucks 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I dont know if i would have survived the italy trip. [email protected] everything to see a cousin. Ridiculous.

Mine is great at cooking and grocery shopping but would complain a ton about Comcast (rightfully so). Also good at finding rooms. Good ideas.

[–]true_detective_sf 2 points2 points [recovered]

I should have noted that the cousin lives 20 minutes from us here in SF!

[–]cortisolsucks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

O m g. That's insane. I would have went crazy

[–]VirgoRooster 9 points9 points [recovered]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but what a fucking horror story. Why put yourself through this?

This post does more to dissuade me from ever getting married and having kids than it encourages me to plan my trips ahead of time. Not to say I oppose of the way in which you handled things, but fuck that.

[–]Tiberius133 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Some us were already married when these ideas came to us.

[–]WillWorkForLTC 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Definitely not everyone's cup of tea. It's all about what you get out of it. If you love wife, kids make you happy and you want to build a tribe and be the leader, building a family is a great option. Many men do not want this innately (such as yourself) and there is nothing abnormal or "wrong" about both choices. As long as it's a choice made by oneself in the interest of one's own values, then all the more power to all of you!

[–]VirgoRooster 4 points4 points [recovered]

I get that. I just can't, for the life of me, understand why someone would like this life--much as I try to understand it. Bitchy wife. Shit kids. Your entire life is relegated to keeping them entertained? There's no winning there.

[–]WillWorkForLTC 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well when you put it like that, divorce rape sounds like a favour.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't forget working all day everyday so they can have everything. Even if you get nothing.. Hah

[–]NightGod 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Not to beat a dead horse here

goes on to beat a dead horse

[–]VirgoRooster 5 points5 points [recovered]

Lol. I guess I just don't understand this outcome as being a positive one. "I have a shitty wife and shitty kids but I successfully treated them to a vacation by exerting myself to ensure they didn't have any tantrums. Rate my alphaness."

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You have a great point. A year or so ago I would have been miserable. Let the wife do everythig while being treated like shit. I actually had a good time. Got to show my kids a great time. And demonstrated to myself all this redpill stuff does work. This is my current reality so I am making the most of it. Trying to master it and steer it in a way that benefits me. But yeah, marriage and kids is not everyone's cup of tea. Most have no idea what they are getting into.

[–]Endorsed Contributorcholomite 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Good post. planning and decision making is definitely important, but something I think you missed in your post is the importance of flexibility. Women will be happy when their man can make and follow a plan, but they get even more excited seeing their man turn an unexpected negative event into something positive. I used to want to have everything planned out down to the minute, but having to stick wth my plan would take me out of the moment and kill any fun I was having. Now I prefer to have a few options in my mind at any time that I can freely go to if I feel like it, or if something is closed...etc

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Great point- flexibility is key as well. What is nice is you can fake that so well too "Oh this idea didn't work- here is my backup plan" even if you had no backup plan. Shoot, one day it hit 90 degrees, it was super crowded, and the kids weren't going to make it. Time to head back to the hotel to swim and have a real nice dinner. And the hotel already has something tonight I was planning on taking the kids too. Shows mastery of your surroundings.

[–]1ThumpNuts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely! Adapt or die. This is why it's important to be flexible and helpful to be creative.

Women and children are the ones who have meltdowns when a plan experiences a hiccup, men problem solve - adapt - make it right.

My favorite part of your post was:

...we were at disney for three days and we had zero meltdowns. The kids were on point all day long. Which is a fucking miracle. But that's because I made sure they had adequate sleep, plenty of water, rests, suntan lotion, and decent food.

Luck plays a role, of course, but you can increase your odds of "good luck" by ensuring "...they had adequate sleep, plenty of water, rests, suntan lotion, and decent food."

I do Disney all the time - the fam has annual passes and we live just outside of Orlando - and this is what happens when I plan it. I've let her plan it before, and we've been "lucky" but it's hit and miss. A plan will help [even if she plans it] but if you want to be sure it's on point and you're having fun - be the man with the plan and take charge.

[–]cinyx[🍰] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Wouldn't some women feel like you're not taking their input if you just say that this is the plan. Wondering if this only works on indecisive women.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In my experience women are indecisive.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

it works on all women, and men.

women dont want to decide, beta men dont want to decide, other guys dont want to be the nagging bitch who complains about something irrelevant

most of the time they wont even ask where you're going.

"be ready at 630 we'll go out for dinner" "oo yay =)"

the end

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Took at LTR on vacation with me. Planned everything but it wasn't the spend the week on a yacht sailing to remote islands and eating at rooftop Spanish 5 start restaurants that she wanted. Was the most horrible time I have ever had. I guess a vacation on a Mexican beach eating authentic Mexican food and drinking Coronas wasn't good enough for her. Recently got in touch with my real dad. You know the guy that my mom was alpha widowed by. His response...."Why the hell did you take a woman to Mexico with you?" First time that I ever told my real dad to "kiss my ass and laugh with him". Then, he told me about his trips to Mexico and the fine hookers he fucked after doing lines off their asses.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]4nn1h1l4tor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If your wife planned a trip to DC and neither the white house nor the Pentagon was on her list and your family was "fed up" before you took charge, your wife is retarded. You might just be as well for being her husband. Glad you found each other.

Now stop pretending to be the greatest person ever.

[–]momomotorboat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is one of those "posted at just the right time" posts. I'm going out of town in a couple weeks with my LTR. Luckily just us two. But this was the perfect primer for me.

[–]B00TYMASTER 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great post. This is something I've especially been working on as of lately.

[–]alphabeta49 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn right. I am so fulfilled when I plan a vacation out, and the validation comes from within, not from my wife. Its so much more enjoyable when I do the planning beforehand and can just sit back and watch it all unfold.


[–]coffee_and_lumber 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My wife used to do all the planning when we were dating and it made me feel like a bystander. So I simply took over, starting with our honeymoon to England and Switzerland. I plan all our vacations now, from the Lyft ride to the airport to various train connections to strategically selected hotel locations so we have the best chance of being able to walk to interesting places. I find out what she wants out of the trip and insert that into the master plan and allow for deviations and spontaneity.

We generally travel internationally for vacations and make very intricate plans. I keep the entire itinerary written in my notebook and learn it backwards and forwards. All email confirmations for reservations go into a single folder in my Gmail for reference. So when she asks a question about when or where or what, I can rattle off any part of the day's plan without hesitation. I never had interest in this stuff before, but now I take a sort of pleasure in mastering it, getting all the pieces to fit together with minimal wasted time. We tend to have a fantastic time on our trips.

"Trust me, I got this."

[–]MrAlester 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been on vacations with 2 different girlfriends, both horrible experiences, I did everything you wrote, but as soon as something doesnt come out right shit hits the fan, specially when you are visiting a country that's not reliable as Bolivia, anything can go wrong there.

My last vacations i took my brother kayaking the Fjords of the Patagonia, awesome experience, I didnt hear a single complain on the whole 10 days we spent there, even though we were in one of the most hostile environments in the planet.

I'm glad im not married nor have kids, I wouldn't survive taking them on vacations.

Just to be clear, in both cases i planned everything, i took the lead and decided what we'd do, eat or sleep. The GFs complained about every little detail when my decision resulted on something undesirable (ie the bus running late, not my fault, but still my fault), I felt like i was a tourguide rather than the BF. My brother never complained even though we were in the middle of nowhere under a heavy thunderstorm with just my tent to shelter us, he enjoyed being tested by mother nature.

[–]iagovar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Read Talcott Parsons and his analisys of the family. Pre feminist BS sociological theory.

[–]DaPhanthom 3 points4 points  (0 children)


What is this?

[–]red_gerb 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This is me in several weeks.
You have to be one or two steps ahead ALL. THE. TIME.
Adaptability is also required. Why? kids are full of surprises. last year? something in their eye. insatiable itch. quick, where is the closest pharmacy? And the year before? I was sick. Let's say I visited every toilet in Legoland! No mercy from the spouse. Man plans, God laughs.

Sadly, there is no time to relax.
It's not a vacation for me. (driver, planner, security, bell hop, counselor, water boy, time keeper, tour guide)

It's an endurance test.

ps. If you get bored in line, do a visual count status of the crowd. Beta, beta, beta, Alpha, beta, beta, omega, beta..

[–]WillWorkForLTC 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Bahahaha the crowd count is a hilariously good idea! Good call on noting that you have to be two steps ahead all the time. No other option for the pack leader.

[–]Linoran 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That...doesn't sound like a relaxing vacation for you. But you handled it well. Next time ditch DW, ditch parents and ditch the kids.

[–]NightGod 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I know it may be shocking, but some people actually enjoy being around their family and seeing them have a good time. Relaxation can come from more places than a beach and umbrella drinks.

[–]1Snivellious 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That, and it looks like OP probably got a bunch of relaxation during events he decided on (especially since things were going well). Once you've picked to wait in a line and get on the ride, you've got a bunch of down time. If everyone's happy and on the same page, then you'll enjoy that way more than if someone's whining the whole time.

[–]1aguy01 3 points4 points  (1 child)

You decide what to do, she does the booking. She should be ordering the flights, the passes, all that shit after you tell her what you want.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It doesn't need to apply to vacations with the family or LTR.

My first trip overseas with a bunch of guys, ended up being less than satisfying than it should be, because there was no lead planner and everyone was indecisive.

Deciding where to go and what to do, took too damn long to make, and usually ended up with a fallback activity, which is practically the same shit for the last week of the trip.

I realised, "Fuck this, never again." and took charge on subsequent trips.

Admittedly, it's tiresome to plan everything yourself for 30+ day trips for the crew, but if I'm going to spend a lot of money overseas and end up doing nothing, I'd rather stay at home.

I don't even have to ask, or make considerations for anyone.

"You follow my plan, or you don't. I don't care. However, if you don't follow me, you're going to miss out."

The last trip was good. I got more T&A on some single days, than my first entire trip.

[–]Sir_Shitlord_focker 0 points1 point  (2 children)

1) way to go on the decision making

2) Oh my God that vacation sounds like a lot of work... my (singles) vacation is like this: get to hotel, bang maid (I go to thailand), empty luggage, go beach, do whatever you want for 2 weeks. Come back, ice cock.

[–]1cover20 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Pay the maid? How much? Didn't know this was done.

[–]Sir_Shitlord_focker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't even have to pay, you can game pretty much any girl in these thai beach resorts... I do give them some money at the end of the stay for cleaning the room anyway, if I banged her I'll give much more cuz I feel like it. Look at it from her point of view, you're this ultra rich guy who can afford a Marriot... little does she know you're just a wage slave with a good exchange rate ;)

[–]StarkAtheist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With my company, I work some events on Disney property.

I watch beta-husbands and EVERY family member in their group is miserable.

Can confirm OP's battle plan works brilliantly when YOU lead... THEY follow... with NO negotiation.

Maintain frame, my brothers, and joy ensues.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just got back from a Disney Cruise - banged the shit out of my wife in our stateroom mid afternoon while my kid was at the Oceaneer Club.

Wife and I emerged from the room to see a few of the housekeepers giggling down the hall. My wife has trouble being quiet during sex.

Good times.

Oh and BTW... Disney cruise is top shelf. Castaway Cay especially was amazingly beautiful. First class all the way. Can't wait to go again.

[–]MeatCurtainRod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The reason why women want to organize things like this is because they only want to make sure they are able to "nest". They actually don't really want to organize it, and don't really care about all the details. They would prefer if the husband did it.

Besides, if you let 1 person in the pair do the vast majority of work, no one will be happy.

[–]Darkone06 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another tip I would add for any social setting that involves lage crowds is to set a rally point.

I always walk to a light pole or other large structure and state to everyone if we get seperated, you meet me here.

Here on this pole with your back touching it, not in sight of the pole.

It sets the tone that you are in charge and if anyones gets seperated they will seek you out following your instructions.

[–]1cover20 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I planned out a vacation last summer. One of the sights to see, out of 5 or 6, wasn't good.

Wife wouldn't stop bitching about it. I told her to plan a vacation if she wants one. And if she isn't wet, fine.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Disney is blue pill propaganda. Alphas don't go there... fake rationalizing ones do.

[–]Philhelm -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

I think it would be a better idea to simply not go. I'm fortunate that my father-in-law lives in Tampa, so not long ago, my wife took the kids to Florida and went to Disney World without me, and I had ten days to myself.

[–]WilliamTurdsworth 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Ah yes, avoiding adversity. That's exactly what this post was about.

[–]Philhelm 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I don't think that going to Disney World qualifies as adversity; it's simply something that I didn't care to do, so I didn't do it.

[–]ShibaHook 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You missed out on creating some great memories for your kids. Hope they took it okay.

[–]Philhelm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My children are only one and two years of age, so I doubt they'll have any memories of the trip. If they were a few years older, it would make more sense to take them to Disney World. Furthermore, my wife had just been laid off, so had some free time and wanted to visit her father with the kids, so I said, "Have fun!"

I'm not in a chain gang, so it's okay for my wife to do something without me, you know.