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Red Pill TheoryPlate Spinning: The other side of the coin (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Praecipuus

Even though I have previously read (thanks, Rollo) about the subject I am about to address, I find it not to be mentioned here nearly as often as I believe it would prove to be helpful for all of us.

My intent with this text is not to provide advice but to polish your RP glasses a bit more, so that you can base your own actions on a larger absence of blue fog. I will mention a fair amount of concepts we are all familiar with and tie them up together, to demonstrate how even though men and women are biologically different, some similarities can be observed when the broad theme of plate spinning is considered.

 

What brings me here today is my will to address what I believe to be a fair amount of symmetry in the male/female inter-gender behavioral dichotomy, and the implications of this.

 

Plate Spinning Symmetry: Sex-Plates VS Attention-Plates

It should be no news for you how men can plate woman for sex by making them try to get some attention, and eventually providing it in the right, scarce dosage. Men can use women as Sex-Plates, because they have something that women want: attention.

Well, woman do exactly the same with men, but in a reverse way: they plate men for attention by making them try to get some sexual intimacy, and eventually providing it in the right, scarce dosage (not even going further than a peck on the cheek will keep the BB hamster thinking progress is being made), also commonly known as the “Friend Zone”.

Women can use men as Attention-Plates, because they have something that men want: sex. This is how a woman “fucks” you the female way.

With this is mind, the next time you go out on a fourth date with a girl and you still end up going home alone to polish your own knob, I want you to understand that she’s already fucked you four times, and you’ve fucked her zero times.

It does not matter whether you paid for the dates or split the bill. What matters is that you gave her your attention at the cost of nothing.

 

Being a Slut: Sex Sluts VS Attention Sluts

No one respects a slut. A man might fuck a slut, but he won’t respect a slut. Why? Simply because she gives out what men value (sex) too easily. A man might plate her around for sex, but he won’t respect her.

The same goes for women. No woman likes a man who gives out what they value (attention) too easily. A woman might plate him around for attention, but she won’t respect him.

If you are a man who chases after women and gives them attention at the cost of nothing, they will see you as a male slut. You are an attention slut, and no one respects a slut.

 

Inequality and Women’s Leverage

Now that we have addressed the resemblance on both men and women’s way to interact with the opposite sex, let us to evaluate from here onwards how the feminine imperative is placing men in a disadvantageous situation from the get-go.

 

Plate-Spinning Social Acceptance

Attention-Plate Spinning is socially acceptable mostly because it falls into plausible deniability lands (“We are just friends”).

Sex-Plate Spinning is not socially acceptable. Fucking is fucking. There is no “But we are just friends” fucking.

Moreover, society is so biased towards women’s Attention-Plate Spinning that it reaches the point where women keeping their Attention-Plates even when entering an LTR is socially acceptable, unlike the possibility of a man keeping his Sex-Plates.

Contemporary monogamy is not more than sexual, and sexual only, monogamy, strongly biased towards the feminine imperative.

Attention-Plate Spinning is socially acceptable. Sex-Plate Spinning is not.

 

The Cost of Attention VS the Cost of Sex

Attention is a much more transactional and hence also more abundant product than sex. Once you compare both sides of the coin, you’ll realize their engines run on an abundant good, while ours run on a scarce commodity.

Moreover, most men believe the Sexual Market Place is a mercantile society and thus act on the premise that if we give them enough attention, they will give us sex. Not only is this wrong from the negotiating desire perspective, but also from the angle where you realize men are offering something that exists in abundance while expecting something scarce in return.

Attention is abundant. Sex is scarce.

 

Holding Out and Promoting

You know how a Plate of yours can eventually be upgraded to an LTR (should that be something you are up for) and start getting your emotional support, in case you find her to eventually meet your demands, and both of you can actually enjoy things that way? Yeah, it doesn't work the other way around. Sex with a woman who has “promoted you” is not worth it.

Sex-Plates can be upgraded. Attention-Plates can’t.

 

Your Leverage

It goes without saying that we can create leverage by understanding the game, since women usually don’t.

Unlike women, a man who spins plates is a man who consciously knows what he is doing, and follows the rules of the game, because he has to. So, even though women do it instinctively due to their acting in their own environment, the fact that they are successful most of the times makes them unable to effectively react to adversity when their game fails.

This one of the main keys for a man to obtaining power in the Sexual Market Place, so use it.

 

Final Note

In case this was the first time you have come across the concept of the female way to spin plates, I hope you understand from now onwards that, whenever a girl makes you compete with other men for her intimacy, “fight” for her or simply wait for her to be “ready” to spread her legs, you’re not competing, fighting or even waiting for shit.

You’re being spun.


[–]dumgum 39 points40 points  (2 children)

So this is the key to understanding chick books that I've been missing!

No matter what genre it is, fiction written by women for women invariably seems to contain at least two (usually more) men fighting for the protagonist girl, even if the guys are unrealistically attractive (they usually are) and the girl has the looks and social skills of a dried-up plum.

It was curious to me that this "fighting-for-the-protagonist" was such an essential trope in chick books, but rarely seen in men's fiction. But it makes sense from this perspective - these books are porn in more than one sense in that not only is there a sex scene every few episodes, the protagonist-girl gets to attention-fuck all of those guys every other page too! I consider this further proof of OP's theory, proof that attention is indeed intensely stimulating to the female mind - millions of dollars are made based on that fact.

[–]StManTiS 9 points10 points  (0 children)

They're also built on the main woman lounging in comfortable indecision because why the fuck should she pick? It's like when women go shopping and just debate two items for hours, then buy both and make up some reason why they deserve to avoid the decision.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Dude, penis heads are shaped like helmets to scoop out rivals' sperm from the vagina of the bitch you're fucking. The fact that all female-oriented media has warring males competing for her reflects this biological fact.

Look at Twilight. She attention-fucks the shit out of both Edward and Jacob but ultimately goes with Edward because Jacob gives her too much attention (lowering the value of his attention) and makes himself too available.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 100 points101 points  (15 children)

Very good overview. You've hit all the key points.

In summary...

The Attention Plate is skewed so that Power flows towards the female (at no cost to her) and the end result is always loss of Power and Beta failure of some sort for the male.

The Sex Plate is skewed towards the male and forces the female to develop traits that Charm the man to get his attention. If properly nurtured this Captain / Firstmate dynamic can progress towards LTR status.

One cannot proceed to a successful LTR from an Attention Plate.

The Beta Orbiter never sees improvement... things can only get more Beta once the Power losses begin.


No Charm, No Love applies here.

If the Plate does not Charm you then she is an Attention Plate and the relationship can never have a good outcome.

First comes Sex, then comes her Charm, then comes your Love.

Sex ---> Charm ---> Love

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (5 children)

If the Plate does not Charm you then she is an Attention Plate and the relationship can never have a good outcome.

Great insight.

[–]whatyearisthisagain 30 points31 points  (4 children)

she is an Attention Plate

Rather, you are her attention plate.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Attention Plate means she's the Captain and that spells doom for any LTR.

You never want to be a beta orbiter (Attention Plate) where the attention flows from you to her. Instead you want to be in a Sex Plate scenario where attention flows from her to you. The problem with this vocabulary is that Sex Plate is centered on the male perspective and Attention Plate is centered on the female perspective.

Any ideas of improving the terms?

You have to remember Attention Plate was just made up by the OP.

How would a male be described "referring to self" in an Attention Plate scenario?

An alteration / extension of "Beta Orbiter" seems logical... "Attention Orbiter"?

"Check out that guy over there... he's nothing but an Attention Orbiter to that girl."

Or more subtle... as an insult say:

"Check out that guy over there with that girl... she's the Captain of his Attention."

Makes the military instruction:

"Attention" ...hold a whole new meaning. (who is the powerful one?)

[–]mrmeyhemn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thank you for laying it out, your game is on point padawan. have you considered giving yourself to the dark side? (nohomo)

[–]TRPinvictus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly? I would just say that she's making him her bitch. Gets the message off clear enough.

[–]mrmeyhemn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this/ recognize status. ie: game recognize game.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 6 points7 points  (4 children)

The Attention Plate is skewed so that Power flows towards the female (at no cost to her) and the end result is always loss of Power and Beta failure of some sort for the male

One cannot proceed to a successful LTR from an Attention Plate [...] The Beta Orbiter never sees improvement... things can only get more Beta once the Power losses begin.

First comes Sex, then comes her Charm, then comes your Love.

Sex ---> Charm ---> Love

Fantastic yet so simple and continues to elude most men. LTR 101. Many guys get it completely backwards

His Love ---> Her Charm ---> hopefully sex.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Exactly.

He's giving his most important asset (his Love) away for free. He's not going to get any Charm from her and likely no Sex either.


I can't prove this concept, but Disney and the Prince Charming theme was really (in my opinion) a subversion of the old concept of Monarchy. The king ruled over men and the women all Charmed the king. The king often had affairs with multiple women while the women were not allowed to do the same.

Ludwig I is the textbook behavior of admired kings and the basis of Oktoberfest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_I_of_Bavaria

"Ludwig had several extramarital affairs and was one of the lovers of Lady Jane Digby, an aristocratic English adventuress. Another affair was the Italian noblewoman Marianna Marquesa Florenzi. Ludwig also became tainted with scandals associated with Lola Montez, another of his mistresses. It seems likely that his relationship with her contributed greatly to the fall from grace of the previously popular king."

His wife Therese of Saxe-Hildburghausen had nine children.

[–]mrmeyhemn 1 point2 points  (2 children)

observation +1 strong this one is.

thank you for being a literate male.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

HOW HAVE WE NOT ENDORSED THIS GUY YET? I have been learning more from /u/neoreactionsafe's comments than TRP as a whole in recent weeks.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shhhhhhhh.... I like being below the radar. Even here. They never see you coming.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This means if you ltr continues to maintain orbiters,it is emotional cheating and you are free to have side pussy.its the only way the relationship is fair and equal

[–]danielsan01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It IS the only way it's fair, and to be honest, I wish there was another way.

Maybe 'love is war' is fitting here. In most cases, they are not Your allies.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The way you phrased this brings about a notion that a girl being spun will work to provide value, in a proper form, for an LTR to flourish.

A guy being spun does not work on himself (perhaps the channel does not exist because of the attention-plate dynamic) to bring value; voiding any reason to enter into an LTR.

Although redundant perhaps, for being a beta orbiter in the first place.

[–][deleted] 69 points70 points  (10 children)

Very good post.

This is the reason that TRP shames sluts and values male promiscuity. The "advertised slut" is this cool, autonomous, edgy chick who finds a good looking guy and whoah ohh, she takes him home. She's got that cute friends and guess what, something's happened between them. Wooo, sexual conquest liberation. This chick's got shit under control. She's hardcore.

Doesn't work like that though. I've never ever ever met a slut who was that cool edgy chick. I've only ever met sluts who find a guy who's WAY too attractive for them, get plated, try to keep him around with sex, can't do it, and then cry. Worse, since sex works for a little while---sort of, they think that it can keep working. As result, they don't work on skills that actually do make them worth keeping around.

That's not good for society. You can't have half the population taught that their bodies can do the trick and they don't need to work on character. Sure, plate spinning is fun but it's not as valuable as an actual relationship but you can't have a valuable relationship with someone who's been taught to keep you around with her body. It takes two to tango and she's never learned. The overall quality of relationships is lowered, women are devalued to just their bodies because that's all they work on, and the family falls apart.

RP detractors don't consider the fact that male promiscuity doesn't do this. Very very very few men can keep women around just with their bodies. Doesn't usually work. Rather, to earn the right to be promiscuous we need to be absolutely indispensable badasses with tons to offer. The problem can't be solved by refusing to be promiscuous ourselves either. Men are thirsty enough that women will just find someone else to fuck. All we can do is take the small consolation prize of abundant sluts, enjoy the decline as much as we can, and move passed the fact that we can't enjoy a society that doesn't suck.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

On point. I like this post because it really illustrates WHY we promote the things we do here. This could almost be on the sidebar IMO with the link being something like, "For those of you who think we are all just trying to get a bunch of pussy and fuck over women." This is the true dynamic that we are getting in touch with, not some theory to trick the system.

It really separates the the reality of both genders and the reality of how we naturally interact from our currently fucked social state. The world would be a better place if more of men and women understood these concepts.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You are absolutely right. Women believe that all that is necessary is for them to show up with their vagina and entitlement and if he is a "real man", everything will work out.

The lack of sexual exclusivity; inability to be caring, considerate, appreciative, and respectful; and a lack of general femininity makes even the hottest girls not worth any long term sort of effort. They lack character and compatibility.

[–]X0QS3B2X6cui 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You, my good man, are a scholar and a saint. If I had gold I would give it to you!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Honestly you make some good points. I understand that on Reddit giving an opinion that contradicts popular forum opinion gets downvoted by the sheeps because of their lack of ability to have arguments which then causes a huge circlejerk. I agree with a lot of TRP but this is the one aspect I disagree with. I'm curious to see if this is a circlejerk or not because I have a different opinion.

It's so damn illogical for men to claim "women shouldn't be sluts and should have high standards and men can go fuck whoever they want"

You do realize that a decrease in sluts in society means a raise in standards which just means less pussy for us and in particular "the players"? Why is that so darn hard to understand. As you said it takes two to tango. You do make very good points about how women try to keep guys around just because they have vagina's and why that's harmful for society. Regardless, it's contradicting. In an ideal universe you want as many men to be RedPill and you want as many women to be RedPill which just means a decrease in sex for everyone because females should have all these standards. You believe men should try to bang a shit ton of females but you want the females you bang to have high standards as well. Do you not see the problem? It's like saying you want the girl you marry to be a virgin but want to bang all the girls you can during your teenage years and in your 20s. From a societal perspective, how is that in the slightest bit realistic? If we're going full Pakistan style here, that means no sex until marriage for ANYONE, male or female.

Or it's like me saying I want to eat a lot of mangoes every day but I strongly disagree with those idiots that grow these fruits every day and I believe they should be jailed. Hope you can understand my POV and I'm more than willing to admit I/you might be missing something here and am open to discuss/changing my opinion if convinced.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

You do realize that a decrease in sluts in society means a raise in standards which just means less pussy for us and in particular "the players"?

No, I don't realize this. The difference in caliber of a man that a woman can get plated/ONS'd by using only her body and the man she can attract via personality and merit for a LTR is a chasm. The difference is as large as the difference between the hottest chick you could go out and fuck and the hottest chick you could intentionally go get friendzoned by. It takes less effort for an attractive man to get any individual slut but it takes WAY more effort to be the kind of guy who can fuck sluts in a slutty society versus being the kind of guy who can get a LTR in a LTR society. Moreover, most men would prefer a LTR because it's less hollow, more secure against "accidental" pregnancies, false rape accusations, and more secure against STDs.

In an ideal universe you want as many men to be RedPill and you want as many women to be RedPill which just means a decrease in sex for everyone because females should have all these standards.

Which standards? Standards to require a man's commitment before fucking him? Have you been in an LTR with a woman who respects you? Women in LTRs give plenty of sex if they respect you.

You believe men should try to bang a shit ton of females but you want the females you bang to have high standards as well. Do you not see the problem?

It's the women, not the men, who control female promiscuity. In my comment above, I describe that a promiscuous society is not something be can change by opting out of sex. However, a promiscuous society is the one we have and I think men should adapt to the society we live in rather than the society we'd like to live in which means fucking a bunch of sluts, never getting married, and trying to enjoy the decline as much as we can.

It's like saying you want the girl you marry to be a virgin but want to bang all the girls you can during your teenage years and in your 20s. From a societal perspective, how is that in the slightest bit realistic?

A better analogy would be if someone said, "I would prefer to live in a society without premarital sex but since my society is such that that's very unrealistic, I'm going to adapt to the current culture and take place in premarital sex."

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

A better analogy would be if someone said, "I would prefer to live in a society without premarital sex but since my society is such that that's very unrealistic, I'm going to adapt to the current culture and take place in premarital sex."

I'm sorry this is a late reply but I'm happy you said this and it does make theredpill a lot more understandable.

You did a good job digging deep into the psychology of why it's still okay for guys to sleep around but not for women but regardless if you imagine the world being 20 males and 20 females and females having all these standards guys look for and be virgins when they marry them no one would get laid. Obviously it's not like that and from my understanding RedPill is not an idealistic idea, it's more a reactionary one in which case I wholeheartedly agree with you. There's no way you can argue that the whole "girls should have super high standards and guys can sleep around with as many girls as they want" works from an idealistic standpoint imo, not that an idealistic standpoint matters all that much.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

TRP says to fuck the sluts but don't commit. It'd be a feasible society with very little commitment.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It'd be a feasible society with very little commitment.

From my time here and study of it so far I do have to agree with this except I'd replace it'd with it is. If everyone was like that with no commitment you can already imagine how crappy our future generations would be. Again, I'm going into idealism, even if it's not idealistic what the heck is these days

[–]this_is_a_trp_alt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I do not claim to speak for TRP, but it is my understanding that the reason we want RP women (and our potential daughters) to be more selective of their partners and not be sluts is because while being a slut may be congruent with their base instincts, it is not a feasible strategy for the long term nor does it result in happiness (pleasure =/= happiness). TRP is reactionary, not idealistic i.e. It advocates what works in our current society as opposed to how society should be (MRM is idealistic).

Our society is set up so young women are encouraged to "experiment" while older women are expected to be LTR-worthy. However science suggests that women lose the ability to pair-bond if they ride the CC. Hence 'reformed sluts' don't exist.

You may be wondering why TRP advocates that less women slut-it-up? Well, as I understand, men here acknowledge the lack of LTR-worthy women and wish to increase that numbers to be more suitable to the number of RP men.

In line with the Pareto Principle, assume the top 20% of men are RP. If the top 20% of women are LTR-worthy, then those RP men who wish to engage in LTRs will be able to while there are lots of sluts to go around. Currently the consensus is that the number of LTR-worthy women is significantly less than 20% and is in decline. Men on TRP do not wish to abolish sluts (as in a traditional society) but to increase the number of LTR-worthy women.

Edit: This sounds a lot like I speak on behalf of TRP, but I would like to state that this is my understanding of what this sub advocates.

[–]ahurlly 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm a slut. I'm busy building a career and don't have time to answer texts 24/7 or be at anyone's beck and call. I just want to go out and have a good time and then never have to speak to the person again in the morning. I still keep that lifestyle but now I'm in a LTR. My SO is equally preoccupied with his career and hobbies so we see each other when we can (long distance) and talk a couple times a week but we don't get in the way of each other's careers. It's great. Variety gets boring after a while as strange as it sounds, you have to teach from square one every time. Teaching someone to hone their skills is much more enjoyable.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Some really good insights here. Sticked!

[–]AlphaJesus 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Dude, thank you for everything you do.

[–]Praecipuus[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Thanks for that. It's good to know I'm adding something to the table.

[–]PetrolFlavored 9 points10 points  (1 child)

[–]Praecipuus[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Gotta love that guy. It's amazing, how being fat and not wanting to fuck fat chicks can force a man to understand the SM.

[–]danielsan01 16 points17 points  (6 children)

"society is so biased towards women’s Attention-Plate Spinning that it reaches the point where women keeping their Attention-Plates even when entering an LTR is socially acceptable, unlike the possibility of a man keeping his Sex-Plates."

Oh my god someone finally said it!!

This is one of the biggest reasons I'm 'happily single'.

[–]RPGoon 3 points3 points [recovered]

A girl with attention plates is not LTR material. I personally find it to be the most unattractive trait in girls. I have always found it disgusting even before I learned about TRP.

If you want your relationship to be healthy you and your SO should not put yourselves in one on one situations with the opposite sex. Thankfully my LTR agrees with me on that issue.

[–]pavista 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Attention plate spinning is not just social acceptable, its encouraged. I'm sure many of you have been involved in situations we're you're the 'guy friend'. All the family loves you! The dad speaks of what a great young lad you are, but you're not getting laid.

The only time the family actually starts to be negative towards you is when you change from her spinning you as an attention plate to actually getting laid, all of a sudden then you become the bad guy in the eyes of her parents because now you're getting something for nothing.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]pavista 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The orbiters are all glad you're gone, they're hoping for their chance too.

The only guy friends a girl should have is gay friends. If they're straight they should be acquaintances at most.

[–]BrunoOh 38 points39 points  (2 children)

Women can use men as Attention-Plates, because they have something that men want: sex. This is how a woman “fucks” you the female way.

This is gold.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

That's why Princess wants her minions. That's female dildo.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Its true that men desire sex and women desire attention. To what extent do men desire attention, and women desire sex? If you are man of high value, then you don't need attention to boost your ego? Is it beta to want sex and attention as a man? How does this reconcile in the equation?

[–]Kid_Crimson 5 points6 points  (0 children)

True, a high value man may not need attention per se. In my view, the real tragedy of the feminist imperative that dominates the modern sexual marketplace is that it has destroyed personal intimacy - which is something most people do need.

A good woman compliments a man both physically and emotionally. Spinning plates gets you the former but not the latter, and a good healthy LTR candidate for the latter is approaching unicorn status these days!

The sad reality from a cultural perspective is that both good men and good women are in very short supply.

[–]kinklianekoff 2 points3 points  (0 children)

transforming into a better more alpha you is in many ways a quest of diminishing female traits, including the need for attention.

[–]RPmatrix -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How does this reconcile in the equation?

very simply, the 'ideal man' has a balance of both traits, but not 50/50 alpha/beta, more like 80/20 alpha/beta

unless you're a sigma, then all bets are off!

[–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 37 points38 points  (11 children)

Very well written. I wish I could print it on a baseball bat and send it back in time to smack my 20-something self upside the head with it!

I disagree that women who spin attention plates aren't consciously aware of what they're doing. They will openly laugh about their orbiters to their friends and Alpha Fuck.

Even being aware of the Sunk Costs Fallacy and intermittent reinforcement doesn't automatically immunize a man from being used as a chaste attention reservoir. You can never let your cynical guard down in this regard.

Once they're past the first wall at 30, they wonder why so few men are willing to commit, not realizing that THEY are the very ones who wore down mens' capacity and willingness to take monogamy seriously. Spinning multiple plates at once reduces the cycle time between relationships to zero!

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 64 points65 points  (7 children)

not realizing that THEY are the very ones who wore down mens' capacity and willingness to take monogamy seriously.

It looks all rosy to Sarah-20. She's got orbiters and options galore of all ages. Hot alpha Chad and beta bux Billy. She plays the field and enjoys it. It will always be like this because she's awesome and deserves it! "Will you wait for me Billy while I just get all this hot alpha Chad cum out of my system? I just need a little time to grow up..."

Then she hits 30. Now she's looking around for Beta Billy again but Billy has wised up, hit the gym, been round the block a few times and Sarah-30 is competing with Jenny-20. Jenny-20 has a decade of looks ahead of her, isn't looking for too much commitment, doesn't have the thousand cock stare, and fuck me she looks hot ...

If you didn't want me at 20 when you had all the options and I didn't, why should I commit to your sorry bitter ass now that I'm older and I've got all the options and you haven't ...

[–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 16 points17 points  (1 child)

I just love twisting that Marilyn Monroe quote around, it really gets the attention of women who repost it casually without thinking through all the way.

[–]Testiklease 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I love hearing a girl in her early twenties say something along the lines of "Jason is such a nice guy, We made a promise that if we were both unmarried by the time we are 30. We would shack up!"

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 9 points10 points  (0 children)

That's the insurance policy right there. Then Jason waits, and she's on her third divorce and hundredth Chad by 30 ....

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 8 points9 points  (0 children)

i actually fucking did this with a way fine "best friend" of mine. It was set for 30 too, haha unre how dumb I was.

Also, this chick called me up at 4 in the morning and asked to hangout. I don't have to tell you what I'm thinking. She comes over i escalate pretty quickly, and after 30 mins of swatting shittests and getting nowhere I straight told her "if you don't wanna do anything that's fine but I'm going to sleep"

The look on her face. Priceless. When she realized I was serious she said "if I break up with the guy I'm with I'll call you."

I just grinned and said maybe I'll answer. Not sure if she's a ticking time bomb or not and I couldn't care less. Her face, totally worth.

[–]1APookIsAPook 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, then she goes and marries beta Joe and is just fine. It's not true that most of these women can't find anyone. They'll find some poor beta who will be overjoyed to finally find some female company.

[–]RedHeimdall 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I disagree that women who spin attention plates aren't consciously aware of what they're doing. They will openly laugh about their orbiters to their friends

I think some are aware and some aren't. The more naive and/or younger ones I think can say to themselves "these guys are nice to me because of who I am as a person, and they don't want anything in return, and I like having them as pals." Once they get a bit more experienced and have been around the block a few times, then yeah they know the score and they know what they are doing.

[–]Kid_Crimson 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This. I was talking to a very inexperienced 21 year old, with her share of beta orbiters, and she told me quite sincerely that they gave her stuff because "guys like to provide" and that it was in their nature to do so. She truly thought it was about "friendship" and didn't believe me when I remarked that they all wanted to sleep with her.

[–]Praecipuus[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I disagree that women who spin attention plates aren't consciously aware of what they're doing. They will openly laugh about their orbiters to their friends and Alpha Fuck.

And would this not be the female version of Chad Thundercock, the natural plate spinner?

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I think this is a good reason why when you meet a girl you are attracted to that it's important to fuck her as early as you can. Because the longer you wait the more you are put in the attention zone than the guy who she fucks zone.

If you get her in bed quickly then the hamster thinks your the alpha she fucks rather than the beta who gives her the attention she craves. The alpha takes advantage of the sexual tension that is there between you two, while the beta thinks he needs to work for it.

This doesn't mean that a girl will always put you in the attention zone if you haven't fucked right away, but the longer you give her your attention and time freely the more you are potentially in the attention zone. Eventually you have to fuck her and make things clear. The sooner the better.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Having the terminology makes it easier to think clearly. I did come to realize the above many years ago, long before I encountered TRP, but it was more hazy. I did hang around with women friends, but eventually realized that a) I was hoping to turn them into sexual relationships, and b) it never worked that way. Eventually, I gave up the idea of having women as friends altogether, it just seemed dishonest to me. Frankly, I have never felt that I missed anything by doing that. Women can add to life, but as a 'friend' (someone you want sex with but can't), not so much. Men make far better friends, and the conversation is better, too. I don't actively avoid women that I don't have sex with, I just don't regard them as friends or seek them out.

[–]Areimanes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Women can add to life, but as a 'friend' (someone you want sex with but can't), not so much.

I urge every guy to really think about the relationships they have with their female (best) friends. I'm generalizing, but I'm sure that in 99% of the cases there is one giver (male) and one receiver (female).

I have a few friends I would help until my last breath and I know they'd do the same for me. Even with the closest thing I had to a really good female friend, I knew that if I ever needed real help, she wouldn't be there to assist me.

[–]bandaker 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Studying biology, you can see a general theme in many sexually reproducing species. The females (which dedicate vast resources per egg) seek out access to resources. This may or may not be achieved through the choice of mate. The males (which dedicate very little resources per sperm) seek to have as many sexual partners as possible. To successfully reproduce, females need their few offspring to have as many resources as possible. Males are limited in their reproductive success by the number of offspring they can produce, thus their evolutionary strategy is to maximize sexual partners.

Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap. Females need to be selective of partner, males do not.

This is the way evolution has shaped things to play out. However, humans are aware that having sex and reproducing are not the same. There is no evolutionary advantage to having sex without reproduction, but it's still what men desire. Now to understand women desiring attention. If their evolutionary drive is access to resources, what does attention serve?

Sex is the means by which to achieve reproductive success for males. Is attention the means by which to secure access to resources through men? Perhaps the attention is the men competing for the woman by offering their available resources. Thus the woman having a panel of men to select from is the means by which she achieves evolutionary success and is therefore pleasurable. Perhaps it is not even pleasurable, but has evolved as something women do because it is advantageous to them.

Another biology note: many "monogamous species practice various strategies of mate infidelity as a means to increase their reproductive success." (Norman L. Ford, Current Ornithology)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yes, that is the common theme. Although there is a big difference in resource allocation between an egg and a sperm, males produce many more sperm than eggs, along with other nutrients in an ejaculate. Where there is no parental investment, the choosiness can go either way. For example, male newts deposit a spermatophore loaded with essential nutrients, and there is competition amongst females for the best males. Similarly when there is sex-role reversal, eg phalaropes, and sea horses.

For humans it is a little more complicated, in that although the female incubates internally (like all mammals) and thus pays a higher initial cost, there is a very long period of care by both sexes needed for successfully raising a child. So it is true that you only need one man to fertilize many women, it is also true that you need many men to raise lots of children, hence the sex vs commitment dichotomy. [Edit: I ought to add that it is still the case that women can have few children, and men can have many, so that imbalance is still there, hence our sex-bias towards females. But because of the high cost of caring for children over many years, there is selection on females too, to provide that. Hence BB]

On your last point, about mate infidelity (Extra-Pair Copulations, EPCs) you might be interested in this study. Remembering that a woman always knows with certainty who her children are, but a father does not.

Abstract Despite the importance of extrapair copulation (EPC) in human evolution, almost nothing is known about the design features of EPC detection mechanisms. We tested for sex differences in EPC inference-making mechanisms in a sample of 203 young couples. Men made more accurate inferences (8men=0.66, 8women=0.46), and the ratio of positive errors to negative errors was higher for men than for women (1.22 vs. 0.18). Since some may have been reluctant to admit EPC behavior, we modeled how underreporting could have influenced these results. These analyses indicated that it would take highly sex-differentiated levels of underreporting by subjects with trusting partners for there to be no real sex difference. Further analyses indicated that men may be less willing to harbor unresolved suspicions about their partners’ EPC behavior, which may explain the sex difference in accuracy. Finally, we estimated that women underreported their own EPC behavior (10%) more than men (0%).

[Edit: where it say 8men/8women, the 8 is the greek letter phi]

Sex Differences in Detecting Sexual Infidelity P. W. Andrews and S. W. Gangestad and G. F. Miller and M. G. Haselton and R. Thornhill and M. C. Neale Human Nature (2008)

[–]bandaker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for filling in the blanks on this. A lot of the things you mention I had a vague idea about but lacked enough expertise to mention it myself.

[–]1nzgs[🍰] 30 points31 points  (14 children)

I don't see how splitting the bill and not getting sex is "getting fucked". I choose a restaurant I like usually for a second date, and always split the bill, and I pay for my own food which is always good shit. The girl is just a bonus, and sex is a lotto but honestly I'm mainly there to eat and feed my muscles. I've had some dates where I stuffed myself so full all I wanted to do was sleep afterwards. If dates are just pre-sex for you then maybe you need to learn how to enjoy yourself? It might improve your chances also if you're not coming across as desperate.

[–]Endorsed Contributornyrp 23 points24 points  (12 children)

I like what you're saying. I feel TRP has gone a little too far in the "women are for sex only" direction. There is certainly a difference between orbiting a girl waiting for your chance, and simply splitting a meal with a female friend, be she a prospect or not.

As you say, if dates are just pre-sex, your enjoyment is restricted. Being so hung up on having sex and gaming toward sex are putting women on a pedestal. Sharing a meal, date or not, is not pedestalizing. Only spending a minute with a woman if sex is on the table is more pedestalizing.

Feel free to tell me if I'm hamstering, but I just had a period of spinning 5 plates and it actually felt like a dry couple months because I was literally getting pussy and tuning out any other connection. Wow, my dick made it into a pussy. You do it with 3 girls in a week and very quickly, it's like, who cares?

[–]RedHeimdall 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I hear what you guys are saying and I agree, if you are going to the restaurant or doing whatever because you want to and she just happens to be along for the ride to make the experience a little more enjoyable or interesting, I wouldn't say you're necessarily getting attention-fucked.

I think the problem though is that most girls nowadays seem to be so boring that they kind of have made themselves into being only good for one thing: sex. I have of course met girls who were interesting and attractive for purposes other than fucking, but these kind of girls seem to be getting more and more rare.

[–]Endorsed Contributornyrp 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Can confirm. Hung out with a bunch of girls (and some guys) this evening. They were boring as fuck. Talked about fucking a professor who sucked in bed. Said "You go, girl!". Rinse, repeat.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I know what you mean. I've had 5 plates briefly, and recently had 4 at once. My 20-something blue self would not understand how undersatisfying it can actually be when you find yourself literally speeding from woman to woman.

[–]NikoMyshkin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The alpha takes advantage of the sexual tension that is there between you two, while the beta thinks he needs to work for it.

post-ejaculation our desires have a whole different set of priorities.

[–]Praecipuus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I used the "getting fucked by her" as a way to show you would be acting mostly on her territory when attention only is exchanged, yet there is nothing wrong with enjoying that... My point was that they would certainly be the ones getting the most of that due to their ever-drying validation gauge, since you most certainly wouldn't want to keep such "sharing a nice meal" scenario for 4 dates if it lead to nothing else.

TRP isn't about fucking girls. TRP is doing what you want and NGAF. If you enjoy sharing meals with girls, by all means, do it.

[–]RationalistFaith1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This post is so tasty I'm saving it and rereading it around a good meal!

I always keep telling my friends about this except I use the metaphor of her flag. Each time you give it attention, it goes up. If you give too much, it'll be unreachable. You have to lower it by starving it.

Explains the thirst in clubs/bars etc. Also the facebook thirst with all the free likes the attention hags enjoy.

[–]RiseAboveRuin 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Very good post. I wish you'd have gone on a little more on leverage. I liked the part about females spinning us for attention as a concept. I think we all know that females use us for attention but to conceptualize it as plate spinning really seems to fit well with the behavioral symmetries between man and women.

I would really like to see you add some more red pill marinated meat to the leverage section of the post though. I think it's a topic in and of itself that an article could be written about.

[–]Praecipuus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback. I will be writing further on leverage soon, as soon as I get some free time.

[–]thefisherman1961 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You know how a Plate of yours can eventually be upgraded to an LTR (should that be something you are up for) and start getting your emotional support, in case you find her to eventually meet your demands, and both of you can actually enjoy things that way? Yeah, it doesn't work the other way around. Sex with a woman who has “promoted you” is not worth it.

Sex-Plates can be upgraded. Attention-Plates can’t.

I think that's mostly true, but not always - namely, if she's never had sex outside of a relationship before. One girl I knew (20F, HB8) was a late bloomer and had never even seen a dick in her life, much less touched one until mine. I had just gotten out of a LTR and the second she found out, she aggressively began pursuing me. She got my number off one of her friends and texted me asking to hang out (most women would consider that "creepy" if a beta did that to them). So the first time we hung out, she told me straight up that she wanted to lose her virginity to me, but only if I committed to her first.

And it's not like she was holding out because I wasn't alpha enough, because the first time we met she told a mutual friend that I was the hottest guy she'd ever seen in her life. It's because she figured that I was alpha enough to spin plates and was worried that if she gave it up to me that she'd just be one of my plates (dread game, anti-slut defense).

So I am willing to be with a girl who wants to wait until after being in a relationship before having sex, provided that she's never had sex outside of a relationship before. But if she has, and puts the relationship demand on me, I just assume that she thinks I'm a beta. I would never want to start a LTR with someone who already views me as a beta.

[–]1gerwig 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Posts like this seem to ignore that women want sex too. The idea that men only want sex is inaccurate and blue pill. To make sex and attention symmetrical makes it seem like women strongly prefer attention to sex. Yes they use guys they never plan on having sex with, but they still want to have sex and have a lot of it.

[–]dr_warlock 4 points4 points [recovered]

Great post.

When a man spins a sex plate, both the man and woman benfit from oragasms because both desire one another. However, with attention plate spinning, no one is getting any decent sex (duty sex).

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Well.. Both parties aren't always benefiting from orgasms.. wink

Seriously though, yes women get pleasure from sex just like men but need it to a way lesser degree. Men also like getting attention just like women but need it to a much lesser degree.

The key is not to be used on either side.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great post op, probably my favorite in the last 30 Days for sure. Not that I had a crazy epiphany, but they say if you can explain something simply you understand it greatly. Your explanation is spot on and simple. Thanks again

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just read this and thank you so much! I am still on the path of trp and improving and this right here is the slap I needed on my face. Never realized I am a slut, yes thats how females view me. I take too much interest in listening to them and their problems and offer my advise. What an idiot I am, she fucks her boyfriend then complains to me about how is not treating her nice. Fuck! I disgust myself. I now understand the concept of transactions. I have time and attention to trade for sex. If she cant give me that, I cant give her anything either.

[–]NidStyles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The major fault in this post is that it assumes all attention and sex are equal in value. It ignores SMV.

[–]this_guy2001 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Do you guys let your plates know about other plates?

I used to be a player in my younger days, but I would never tell them about each other. I don't know if that is right or wrong.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

all things with women are best done covertly. Just as they will do with you. 'You have plans already'. 'Your going out with buds' 'you have an appointment' you simply don't answer her until your done doing what you are doing

[–]primatepicasso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this is the best post in this sub for the next half a year

[–]pill_pupil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great material, it helped me relate a great bit however the part where attention plates can't be upgraded is debatable.

I am 36, married and currently in a situation with 24 year old colleague in my office, I am responsible for 'scaling her' skillset. Over the period we became very good friends, she has a great ass which I've complimented her on and she liked it, but as I mentioned I'm married its a no-go for me, I am using her as a dread game in my marriage.

This girl is very social with most other people at office and has many attention-plates spinning, this is where she gathers internal office information and feeds me with office gossip and politics. in short I am also one of her attention-plate by virtue of listening and processing this office politics for her.

On a few occassions I asked her why she told me all this stuff and she replied something like because I dont involve myself in office politics she feels safe discussing this with me.

Recently she started acting pricey with me when asked to do some work at office, and I realised it and completely withdrew my attention from her by not paying any heed whenever she would talk to me, no phone calls from me etc. this went on for a few days and she messages me "why are you acting like this with me I think you have found a better looking ass". I just reply to her with a wink.

Now like I said that she being a social butterfly of the office there were other people she was plating, however to but not privileged information (insert BJ and anal sex in male plate terms), and because after my attention was gone she could not discuss and process this information by herself her hamster concluded that all office people are evil and starts dropping other attention-plates by distancing herself with them all, and there gentlemen you have female's version of oneitis, she starts feeding me with gossip on my other colleagues at office whom I'm close to.

I presume this was done with the intention to get me to see how they really were in an effort to cut my attention time with others whom I spoke to, I replied to most of her gossip with, something along the lines of well, nobody is perfect.

I figured she was feeling jealous that the time she was getting is now going to other people and she is now competing hard to get me to drop my attentions plates (in female terms) so that she can lap it all up.

  • edited grammar and formatting

[–]mrmeyhemn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3 words. "Plates, plates everywhere."

[–]Stonish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok I think I get it. At least the most part. So... Going the RP way - how do we spin our plates without spinning theirs? Seems like there must be a "golden middle" in which you do give a woman enough attention so she won't get bored but not enough so she'll want to stay? Im still learning this shit, damn good shit but it ain't as easy as it seems oO

[–]SirNemesis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually think plate spinning and even keeping plates after getting a relationship is becoming socially acceptable in liberal places. You just have to frame it under sexual empowerment terms.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Attention-Plate Spinning is socially acceptable. Sex-Plate Spinning is not.

I think you are incorrect here. There are many ridiculous things in the world that men's rights may need to address, but social stigma of being a promiscuous man is absolutely not one. Seriously, being a male 'slut' may get you called out by a few mid-range women who won't admit their tingles, but to think there is some real risk of being ostracized is just making up persecution that isn't there.

Attention is abundant. Sex is scarce.

BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT!!!

That is some hardcore BP thinking right there my friend. Sex is not scarce, if it is, then you are doing something wrong. Abundance mentality is not some trick, it is opening your eyes to the truth you make for yourself.

I would argue that for both sexes, attention is much scarcer than sex. Pump and dumps are abundant, someone who actually gives a fuck what you think is pretty uncommon. Albeit, women can obtain both attention and sex much more easily than men.

[–]MapleDialga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man, when you guys were talking about 'spinning plates', I thought you meant spinning records.

Then again, Red Pillers never made for good DJs.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Kill_Your_Ego 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Stop posting and go read the sidebar.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great post. Natural hierarchy, economics, the basics of game well explained.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Nobody respect sluts?

Hell, nobody should respect women. See the post : TheRedPill/comments/25oku1/i_dont_hate_women_i_just_dont_respect_them_and/