Red Pill TheoryWhat did you ever do to deserve being called a man? (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

My friend was talking to me recently about how it all feels completely surreal and somewhat out of place that he is now a father. I did the usual thing you would do for your BP friends and suggested he was just a new dad and this was likely normal. There was something in his eyes though at the back that were restless and possibly bordering scared. Was he scared that he was a dad and 'happily married'? No, he is content with the girl for all that matters and loves his Son. What else then was driving these little moments in our conversation where for all his "happiness" his face was clouded in self doubt and questioning...

I don't know man it's just... I did university and got a job and now... This is it? Right? It just happened very quickly...

At age 30 scrolling through facebook I see father after father sat on their sofas playing Call of Duty or some other videogame with their 4 year old Son with all the typical comment trains running underneath...

Where was their rite of passage? What trial or ordeal did they have to endure to begin to raise a family? Nothing. Nothing at all.

What are they going to tell their grandchildren when they are old?

I used to be good at cod and drinking beer.

Great story.

There is a oft quoted passage in Fight Club - you've all heard it.

“We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.”

It's true, there is no purpose for men in these days except the ones we make for ourselves and between the television telling us what to think and chasing women we have no space or time to address this most important of issues - generationally we're not very pissed off about having no cause, we're wholly apathetic instead.

Since swallowing the pill you've started to lift weights, dress better and approach women, you're concentrating on your career and have learned how to say no. The truth is:

  • You should have always been in shape

  • You should always have been well dressed and care about your appearance

  • You should have always been able to speak to the blonde in the coffee shop

Our generation feel they should be rewarded for just for tidying their room or leaving the house, turning off the video games or going for a walk... Achievement unlocked - go back to sleep.

The discordance I saw inside my friend was "Eating the bread of shame", he was just a taller, fatter version of himself at 9 years old with all the supposed luxury and privilege of a settled life. He had no rites of passage, no trial by ordeal, no cause greater than himself and professionally sat at a place earning a pension that looks increasingly like it won't matter by the time he comes to claim it.

We were warriors by birth, years of brutal exertion, bravery and commitment was the price of feeling entitled to old age in front of the fire and getting fat. Now we are a generation of spiritually and physically fat and old men at age 20 wondering what this nagging feeling at the back of our collective heads is.

You haven't done anything. We haven't done anything. Short of military service or a committed effort to travelling what could you tell your grandchildren that they'd care for? What have you done to deserve being a family elder, someone to listen to, what have you seen or done that was in anyway remarkable?

I ask myself this as much as the community here and find myself lacking. I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

What will I tell my grandchildren? I lifted weights day to day and earned money, I partied and fucked girls? I was a wealthy ladies man? Is that it? By my own standards I don't deserve to raise children and settle down if that's my story to date.

What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?

[–]kalstate 464 points465 points  (40 children)

These posts seem to be getting better lately. It's as if TRP is evolving. I love to see this, my brothers... These are the right questions we must be asking ourselves.

[–]Born2Ball 168 points169 points  (24 children)

Yes it really is evolving. It's directed more towards its original intention now more than ever, as the name would apply, of unplugging yourself from the bullshit that society is trying to feed you. It's a source of legit self improvement advice, empowerment, and being the man you deserve to be.

[–]kalstate 68 points69 points  (18 children)

Interesting. I was just looking over my past posts, and realized how cringe-worthy many of my comments were. I am definitely experiencing quantum leaps in my thinking (thanks to TRP, lifting, eating right, meditation, self-improvement, etc..), and it seems to be happening across the subreddit too. We're having fun, folks!

A side-note for people who thought this subreddit was turning to shit a few months ago..Perhaps it was from a wave of incoming freshmen, but we seem to be figuring it out pretty fast.. I recall one senior suggesting that some of the elders need to step up their game--it seems to be working. And as always--thanks to all of you..

[–]PowerfulHTX 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Interesting, I've noticed the same thing in my self-development process as well. From the blogs and books I've read, they all state that self-awareness and improvement is not a linear progression. The further down this path I go, the more I realize this to be true.

It seems every couple weeks or months I'm stumbling upon a new train of thought that opens a door to a whole new avenue of self-reflection and discovery. The problem I'm facing with this is that this process seems to be never-ending and that can sometimes make it exhausting.

[–]kalstate 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I am going through a major healing/repair process. While leaps are quantum, I find that if I'm exhausted, I need rest. It sounds ridiculously simple, but we need time to heal and build. Just be patient, and cut out things that are distracting (nagging people, extracurricular activities that no longer serve you, poisonous food, bad habits, etc..). I find removing those things and getting enough rest help a lot. Also, the time it takes to heal is essential to the process. Rome wasn't built in a day..

[–]1Snivellious 6 points7 points  (3 children)

It makes me wonder if the stages of development we talk about are taking hold. During the really rapid growth, it was tons of people in the anger phase ranting about women behaving badly. Now that some critical mass of users are past that point and on to self-improvement and understanding, we get posts like these.

[–]ShanksNes 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. I'm much less angry now, and life seems more zen despite the fact that reality is still the same. Time passes and you "grow up".

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Red Pill is entering the fifth stage of swallowing the red pill.

[–]laere 41 points42 points  (2 children)

Man OP hit the fucking nail on the head.

I have been having this nagging feeling in the back of my head for the past year of finding this sub.

I dress better, better shape, lift, eat better, but still I have that nagging feeling in the back of my head.

And I feel unless I can accomplish something universally great, that it will be there until the day I die.

Now I understand why we need to find our passion in life, and do great things. Because that's what that nagging feeling in the back of our minds is there for.

I almost feel angry that lifting weights, eating better, be over all more healthy, learning new things, fucking new women won't be enough. I need to turn that anger into desire, we need to turn that anger into desire. I want to accomplish great things, and I fucking will accomplish great things. Because the only person stopping me is myself.

[–]Primemale 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Now I understand why we need to find our passion in life, and do great things. Because that's what that nagging feeling in the back of our minds is there for.

This just means your still not fulfilling YOUR desires, try and find out what's lagging, Not everyone has to change the world, do what ever you want, it's your life.

[–]KilluaKanmuru 17 points18 points  (0 children)

The shade of red grows darker. Deeper.

[–]causeandcorrelation 7 points8 points  (4 children)

May be a result of the publishing of the handbook. Consolidated information to be consumed off line and reflected upon.

[–]Heizenbrg 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Where is this handbook that you speak of?

[–]xinhoj 3 points3 points [recovered]

"read the sidebar"

tldr: red pill hand book dot com

[–]TheFireMachine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is not immediately available in the side bar with the other selected readings and there is no website red pill hand book dot com.

edit. Website does exist. My mistake. Thanks for the information.

[–]qwertyleftme 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Evolution is not progress, it is change. I would like to say that posts have become more mature. more refined. They reflect the experience and trial and error learning.

[–]seenit3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The question of one's legacy creeps up about once or twice a month on here. I agree that this one is the most direct and complete in recent memory.

[–]kaspell 76 points77 points  (16 children)

I've often asked myself this question. I'm gonna be 36 in less than a month and I'm just now starting to feel like a man again. It's been a bit of a trip to tell the truth, and when I sit back and get out of my head and look at the things I've done and what I've experienced, I go wow... why do i not feel confident? 'Saving private Ryan, was the first time I remember really asking myself... what makes a life worth living? I remember asking my dad, who is by all measures a great man... he had no answer for me.


A bit of background. In my brief time on this earth, I've been on a nationally ranked wrestling team throughout high school in 4A, should have taken state at least twice but didn't. I've run a nuclear power plant on a naval submarine, I've worked as an operator in chemical plants, done ironwork in refineries, been on search and rescue teams (fire/rescue/hazmat). I managed to get an engineering degree from one of California's more prestigious public schools in my 30's and am now working as an engineer for the Gov in a role I really can't talk about. I've seen and been involved with the dark underbelly of society at times in my past, to the point which nothing really ever surprises me anymore, with the exception of people being stand up when I would have banked against it.


The thing is, after getting into some near life wrecking legal trouble in my twenties my self esteem got wrecked. I felt more like an adult at 24 than than I did until quite recently when I took stock of what I've actually been a part of as a contributing member of society.


As far as I can tell, the true test of a man, boils down to being able to walk away from the things that leave feelings of regret. It's a lot like how I see happiness. If you're happy/content, more than you aren't, you're winning at this life thing. If you go for something and fail, but left it all out on the line... you won. The only real regret is the lesson unlearned or the mistake repeated.


I guess the point I want to share is that, in my experience, We (I) can be our harshest critics. The self can be ruthless, we are not objective when it comes to our own place in the scheme of things. Do what feels right, avoid the things that feel like your getting away with something, own your mistakes, treat people with as much kindness as you can muster. These are the things I've found that have helped start to reclaim my own respect and begin feeling like a man again. Woman and relatioships are all secondary or tertiary issues to how you treat and deal with self.


Hopefully you got something from this, I'm out of practice soap-boxing, but wanted to share as this topic.... what qualifies the title 'Man' is one that I ponder often and is central to the things I care about.

[–]RPmatrix 10 points11 points  (5 children)

I remember asking my dad, who is by all measures a great man... he had no answer for me.

here's a recent one, a Man I (have always) admired greatly after I learned about him (in the late 80's)


and here's a slightly 'less recent' BUT NO less 'relevant' one ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller

[–]kaspell 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Will read later, thanks for the links.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

If you go for something and fail, but left it all out on the line... you won.

Yes. We can't guarantee outcomes. All we can guarantee is whether or not we give 100%. If you give 100% every day, anything good that was ever going to happen to you, will.

[–]kaspell 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It's glib, but "control is an illusion" is one of the mantras I love to throw at people, a lot of time i think people suspect I'm joking.

[–]trpmanforlife 164 points165 points  (15 children)

THIS is core TRP philosophy right here. TRP isn't about getting chicks, it's about improving yourself and making yourself the best man possible and going out there and experiencing new and unique things. The work that you produce and your legacy will be remembered after your death, not how many chicks you banged or how much beer you could hold.

[–]VayneWolf 47 points48 points  (1 child)

We'll said. I read TRP not to learn how to pick up women, but to become a real man who knows what he wants and how to get it. Women really are just another minor benefit to being able to take charge of your own life.

[–]darkstout 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Perhaps the sidebar mission statement should be updated since it says TRP is about getting chicks ("sexual strategy").

[–]holybad 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I always thought sexual strategy meant a strategy that is exclusive to a particular sex (TRP is a male only strategy) rather than a strategy for getting sex.

[–]darkstout 10 points11 points  (1 child)

In evolutionary psychology, sexual strategy refers to human mating strategies. e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8483982

[–]TheQuestion78 134 points135 points  (30 children)

I agree with the general sentiment but this is idolized view of history to me.

Most men of the Great Depression fucking died of starvation.

Most men in the World Wars died before they could even raise a family or if they were lucky went home a cripple.

Most of the chivalrous and brave knights of the Middle Ages typically didn't see more than one battle ever in the lives. Most of their time was spent playing nice with lords and oppressing serfs.

Most men throughout all of time simply went through the motions of life. They, like the typical man of today, grew up, learned a trade (got a job), raise a family, and eventually died.

What I am trying to say is our generation isn't at a much more disadvantage as you imply OP. Yes because of the internet and technology most of our days are spent glued to our computers or TVs, but I am sure the men of old spent most of their time on hobbies of little value as well.

All that being said we definitely ought to make the most out of ourselves and break the mold of the "average" male who does nothing but go through the motions.

[–]docbloodmoney 20 points21 points  (12 children)

I'm wondering if the world wars and all those children growing up without fathers was a strong contributor to the mess men find themselves in today. Boys need strong male role models. Has it just been getting worse every generation since then?

[–][deleted] 61 points62 points  (0 children)

I would imagine boys only need one of a few things to grow into genuine men.

Real Adversity.

Male leadership.

Masculine peers.

In a pinch any one will do, modern society/feminism saw to delete all three.

[–]RPmatrix 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Good query; In my country, Australia, due to WW1, we "lost" (killed) OVER 40% of the men under 25yo of that generation, (with many more wounded or had "shell shock" aka (now as) PTSD, legless, armless etc) and so many of the next generation grew up without fathers ...

She 'lost' 2 husbands, her first to WW1 and her second to WW2! I had no grandpa on my mums side for this reason!

[–]PedophilePriest 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Makes me think what effect the nearly constant wars the world has had until recently, played in controlling women's Hypergamy.

100 women for every 75 men makes a far more competitive environment.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm sure that was a strong contributor, but there were two greater factors, IMHO.

1) Men had driven the advancement of civilization for millennia to ever greater heights - and got to the point where we slaughtered each other on an industrial scale, and invented a weapon that could wipe us all out. I think there was a sense that masculinity had overreached itself, that it had a dark side, that was always known, but that dark side now threatened everything. Maybe there needed to be a 'balance' of more feminine values before we truly fucked up?

2) The nature of work changed. Whereas in previous centuries no woman in her right mind wanted her husband's or father's job, because it was physically hard, quite often dangerous, and she was offered the much better (relatively) and easier job of staying at home, looking after the children, and feeding the chickens. Suddenly, they could go to work in comfortable offices and still call it 'work'. They could be equal, do everything that men could do (cough).

The combination of these two, a drawing back from the brink of masculinity alongside an encouragement of women to think they could do 'anything' (so long as it was warm and safe) made feminism inevitable as a stage of our society.

Add to this the grip that Marxism held on so many minds, the debasement of this idea into feminism was too enticing. How were we to know it was doomed to fail miserably?

[–]burn_bobonga 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There was definitely a period of delinquency following WW2 due to dead fathers. Charities were founded to address this problem and provide strong male role models. I can't say whether it's gotten worse. Things are just changing. Wars aren't killing dads, policies are. Poverty still contributes the same it always has.

It's harder to inspire boys when you're competing with modern distractions. Try to pull them away from their cozy homes and technology and they go into withdrawals. The chemistry can't be too different from narcotic addiction.

The good news is that society is still very receptive to the need to intervene. People want to help boys without father figures and they want men to do the mentoring.

[–]RedditArgument 3 points4 points  (5 children)

A very curious question no doubt. One would expect the former Soviet Union to be a feminist hellhole due to the loss of almost an entire generation of men by that logic, however I guess the situations within the USSR naturally saw to that not happening.

Alternatively we see Germany and Japan having the two lowest birthrates in the world. Perhaps you're onto something.

[–]SMEGMA_CHEESE 11 points12 points  (4 children)

In Japan it's more like you can choose between living your entire life doing things you love in the most interesting and feature-packed cities in the world (Cafes where all the waitresses are naked prostitutes? Check. Cafes where you order sexual favors as a side-dish for your food? Double check. A sizeable community for every hobby you could ever imagine? YUP.)


You could give up your life to support a loveless marriage and a child you never get to see, having the only thing you look forward to every night being getting black-out drunk until eventually you can't take it anymore and kill yourself.

Don't get me wrong, they're so sexist in Japan that they view women as on the same level as children and give them very few responsibilities that they don't ask for, the men just have a crushingly strong sense of responsibility and they can't run away from stuff.

So... why get married? Why have children? They have 0 incentives.

[–]ShanksNes 2 points3 points  (3 children)

That's very interesting. Gotta visit sometime i guess.

[–]RedditArgument 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Yeah I live there and aside from the getting smashed every night it's really not like that at all. I imagine naked prostitute cafes would be a tad more common knowledge if they were actually available to anyone.

Also smegma is wrong in my opinion about the men treating women like children, they treat their wives like their mothers, many even getting a daily allowance (a fucking grown man getting an allowance of money he earned) from their wives.

It is a fascinating country but don't let anyone confuse you into thinking it's a RP society. Maybe MGTOW if you can call those herbivores men.

[–]DoesNotMatterAnymore 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Most men in the World Wars died before they could even raise a family or if they were lucky went home a cripple.

This is an interactive video about how many people died in WWII: http://www.fallen.io/ww2/

Watch it!

[–]5t3fan0 3 points4 points  (0 children)

i did watch it; gotta say, i've read a lot and studied history and such, when you read any numbers the mind really can't even barely grasp the size of it... but seeing these towers of small men stacking higher and higher, and each is 1000 people, everyone with her/his own dreams and fears and friends and family..... damn

also, unrelated, but when the graphic shows the deaths compared to world population, the earliest conflict are just insane, considering everything was done by "blade and arrow" (okay excluding famine and disease fo course, but still!)

[–]kinklianekoff 3 points4 points  (0 children)

exactly, our generations existential crisis is simply an abundance of resources. we got plenty of food and time and can dwell on our lack of greatness.

it's a common theme in literature, what do you do when you don't have to do anything?

[–]Hilarious_Haplogroup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes and amen to your comment! It drives me nuts when men that were fortunate enough to have been born into peace and prosperity pine away and long to have been born into the WWII generation. That's bullshit. Be fucking grateful that you live in a world that isn't drenched in the horror of bombing raids and large battlefields with thousands of dead strewn about for miles. You have the privelige to choose your own battles and fight with your mind and your labor instead of with bullets. Even in the arc of a mundane life, you can create greatness if and when you decide to act.

[–]PowerfulHTX 17 points18 points  (0 children)

The way our society is set-up now, a man has to choose the road less traveled, the harder route. With all these creature comforts we have available in our modern age, it seems very easy to slide into complacency. It's so easy to go to college, get drunk, take a shit job, eat shit food, sit on the couch everyday, get lost in sitcoms, and next thing you know 40 years have gone by. It's terrifying.

Unfortunately, I don't see many men choosing the tough route that was necessary in the past. My friends and I often joke about the "pussification" of America. It is all to real. It is something that has me greatly worried for the future.

[–]slippery_people 19 points20 points  (1 child)

What if a demon crept after you into your loneliest loneliness some day or night, and said to you: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence - even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence will ever be turned once more, and you with it, you speck of dust!" - Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth, and curse the demon that so spoke? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment in which you would answer him: "You are a God, and never did I hear anything so divine!" If that thought acquired power over you as you are, it would transform you, and perhaps crush you; the question with regard to all and everything: "Do you want this once more, and also for innumerable times?" would lie as the heaviest burden upon your activity! Or, how would you have to become favorably inclined to yourself and to life, so as to long for nothing more ardently than for this last eternal sanctioning and sealing?

[–]bustanutmeow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is ...... wow. That sets in my mind exactly what I need to do. I would never relive my life up til now for ever. Time to kick this shit into overdrive.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 40 points41 points  (3 children)

Those are good questions to ask yourself, what have you done? What accomplishments have you achieved in spite of apparently insurmountable obstacles and impossible odds? What can you do, as in what do you know you're capable of? You know because you've been tested.

Me? Easy. Two wars, a crazy amount of work punctuated by boredom and terror, which on it's own might be enough. The rest of my life outside those five years separated by a decade, has also been a challenge. I've fought my way back from barely being able to walk. Endured a decade of physical abuse. Achieved a rather hard earned career in wrestling both in high school and in the military. I build cars, not just slap parts on something, I take a rusted out bare shell and make it haul ass, handle well, and run like a practically new car. Full frame off restorations and street machine builds, doing 99% of the work required.

I'm a great dad to my daughters despite the shit the state and my ex did to prevent me from being part of their lives. Of everything this is my proudest part, even if there was 12 years I wasn't allowed to be there for them.

You don't have to be impressed, I simply did my jobs, and I have fun with engines rather than computers. If you want to have confidence, you must be tested. Without the tests, the stress, the dangerous opportunities to overcome what forces others to stop, you will not know just how much you can endure. Once you've endured a great hardship and have been tested, everything else seems insignificant and petty. Stress is easy to handle when you've had lots of it.

Heavy lifting builds you, mentally, physically, and emotionally. Hard men are built by hard lives. Soft men have soft lives. If you want to be hard, you have to earn it. So go earn it.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I've been familiar with your story for months, maybe bordering years and I actually thought of you specifically and a few others whilst typing this out.

The submissiion hinges not on the economic gains or lack thereof from military service, it's about knowing yourself, having your mettle tested and having your grandkids love talking to grandad cus "he's seen some shit!".

Without sucking you off too bad I know a beer with you would be more enlightening than a beer with a lot of other ECs, theorists, insightful as they are, do not hold a candle to real struggle and experience. Afterall, in theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice; they are not.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Money doesn't make a man, anyone can make money. It's a shallow measure to have money. I know wimps with soft hands who can't handle a little stress who have money. If it's what drives you, go get it just like anything else, but not having a big pile in the bank doesn't make you less of a man anymore than millions makes you a man.

My story isn't as rough as others, I'm here and talk about it is the difference. I'm not big on conjecture, hypothesis, and hopeful thoughts about how it should or could be. I live in reality, try to see things how they are without tinted glasses. Something feminists simply can't do.

If we sat around my firepit and talked, it'd probably be about cars...And how to kill more mosquitoes.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A sword must be forged in fire. Be the sword.

[–]nosesandsight 62 points63 points  (28 children)

There are thousands of things to do to have stories to tell...

  • Have a threesome
  • Participate in an amateur boxing match
  • Hike the Pacific Coast Trail
  • Do crazy awesome hallucinogens with a Shaman
  • Ride a motorcycle across asia
  • Open a bar or a restaurant
  • Learn to surf in nicouraga
  • Learn to do acrobatics or trapeeze
  • Live in a monastry for a month
  • Play music on the street for money
  • Live out of a truck and travel the country
  • Learn to repair motorcycles or cars or boats
  • Go to a Dance Party on drugs and let loose

There is a fucking awesome gorgeous world out there. With lots of crazy beautiful things to do and see and participate in. You don’t need a war or paramilitary training. You just need a sense of adventure and mischief.

(Thanks for the post... quality writing and thoughts)

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I guess I've always placed more value on experiences like the ones you've listed above for the better part of my twenties.

I didn't always make the right choice and may bank account won't impress anyone, but I've got a few stories to tell the grandkids.

[–]jx234 6 points7 points  (1 child)

These are great things to do.

However, why the emphasis in the comments on doing these in order to have stories to tell? Why not do them for the experiences themselves? Reminds me of sloots who can only enjoy things through a camera lens so as to post them on facebook.

[–]2wiseclockcounter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yea, after a childhood of well-intentioned emphasis from my father on collecting stories, the response eventually came to mind:

Some of the most beautiful moments in life would still make for terrible stories.

The meaning of life is to be alive. Stories aren't something you create by intentionally making risky choices, they're a product of attracting the company of interesting people and saying Yes to things fearlessly. In the temporary absence of these conditions, one must nevertheless strive to lead a beautiful existence. One where you can proudly relish as many moments as possible.

Riding to a cliff to have a beer with a friend at sunset is a horrible story, but serenity doesn't come with an opportunity cost.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]1Yakatonker 48 points49 points  (13 children)

We were warriors by birth, years of brutal exertion, bravery and commitment was the price of feeling entitled to old age in front of the fire and getting fat. Now we are a generation of spiritually and physically fat and old men at age 20 wondering what this nagging feeling at the back of our collective heads is.

You haven't done anything. We haven't done anything. Short of military service or a committed effort to traveling what could you tell your grandchildren that they'd care for? What have you done to deserve being a family elder, someone to listen to, what have you seen or done that was in anyway remarkable?

Military is a grinder for the economically poor and a hardcore incentivizer of slavery which draws in predatory women(military benefits/credits for married service men). Traveling is fun but over rated in a sense of necessity, really most people are incapable of actually analyzing and observing anything of note from such travels and or establishing and expanding their perspectives, at most its only a means to establish social credit in a local environment which lends more to gynocentric capitol.

The so called fat generation is limited by economical factors, women are not economical, Gynocentrism isn't as attractive or as effective as a dopamine dispenser as video games. Women are also not economical because the new distribution of wealth amongst women, but because the mass dive in male participation in the jobs market and the economy of hypergamy makes most men completely unattractive. Video games are a great redistribution of male time and effort, rather then the abuse of women for men who've fallen below the economic belt line for a majority of women. Most guys here are gynocentric and frankly don't give a shit about the macro, "blue pill men" so this often flies over them and they go into conspiracies about socialism, lazy ass millennials, which are all poor excuses(the alpha hampster) for their own information/perspective deficits.

Does it matter what your legacy is, should such a thing even matter? Frankly being realistic you're being what's termed as a romanticist, an idealist. What actually matters most to children is your investment of time in them, that's the most premium item by which a child, grandchild will ever remember you by if you're in a close familial relationship.

[–][deleted] 51 points52 points  (1 child)

Agree with this. My grandpa fought in WWII and Korean war (he apparently hated guns after Korean war, I think he saw some shit). Don't really give a shit about him doing all that stuff when he was young ; all I remember is that everyday before his cancer got bad he would pick me up from pre-k and ask me about my day and give me a lollipop or mint candy he got from the bank. 12 years or so after he died my grandma gave me his a-2 leather bomber jacket and in one of the pockets were two mint candies. He was a pretty solid guy in my books. RIP

[–]ChadThundercockII 4 points5 points  (0 children)

May he rest in peace. Grandpas are the coolest people ever.

[–]thedeathofgod 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I have to say I disagree. My most memorable moments with my grandfather is him telling me stories about working on the pipeline in Alaska. I loved hearing about the bar fights and the bears that would bust into the camp. It always made him seem larger than life.

[–]DarthRoach 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Military is not about travel or whatever. It's about experiencing hardship, having your ego broken down and rebuilt.

Haven't done any service but it keeps nagging me. My country doesn't have the meatgrinder of conscription so one has to make a conscious choice to enlist.

[–]Khan_Shisnis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you enlist, go Infantry (Special Operations/Airborne if you have it).

You'll thank yourself later.

[–]TheWaterTemple 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Traveling is fun but over rated in a sense of necessity, really most people are incapable of actually analyzing and observing anything of note from such travels and or establishing and expanding their perspectives

Traveling is essential to establishing perspectives. Given the odds, we don't live in one of the best places on the planet. The world is filled with great people and places and the most a person can learn from a place is to spend time experiencing the environment. I wouldn't want to waste my time buying a car before looking under the hood.

Most guys here are gynocentric and frankly don't give a shit about the macro, "blue pill men" so this often flies over them and they go into conspiracies about socialism, lazy ass millennials, which are all poor excuses(the alpha hampster) for their own information/perspective deficits.

Very white knight of you comrade. Go now, ride into the darkness on your high horse.

Edit: I agree with you on everything else.

PS fuck off, I don't give a shit.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 9 points10 points  (1 child)

What I did to deserve being called a man? I acted like a man when I was treated like a man by society.

I didn't give up in the moment I was laying in the gutter and was tempted to choose the easy way out and relief myself from the burden of having to stand myself. I fought my way back up. I grabbed myself by my hair and pulled myself out of the shithole I was in.

And I am still fighting every day and I will never give up again. Most other men at my age have given themselves up already. They are dead without knowing it. They are just waiting for their body to follow their mind and for when the time comes to close their eyes forever.

They are trying to lie to themselves, that they are living the life they always wanted, while getting fatter and fatter. They numb themselves with beer and weed to be able to ignore that nagging feeling, that they've built their own prison for themselves and are now unable to escape because of obligations they feel they have and the social pressure they cannot withstand.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 26 points27 points  (6 children)

Good post in general but I take issue with lines such as the following:

What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?

This is similar to the "Man up" and "Serve your country" sort of talk, which is a way to shame you into being accountable to someone else instead of yourself.

Personally, I don't care whether I'll be able to entertain my grandkids with my stories. I don't live my life just so I can have stories for my grandkids, I live it for myself, and if my grandkids happen to like who I am, then that's a small bonus. It's more likely they'll be playing their XBox 1000 or watching their version of Spongebob or Dragon Ball Z than it is for them to be chatting with their grandfather - it's an unfortunate fact of today's society, and I don't want their parents to force them to spend time with me.

However, if my grandkids happen to see their swole grandfather working out and they happen to get interested in me on their own, then yes, I'll give them all kinds of great RP advice and stories.

IMAO: Don't live life so your parents will be proud of you and brag about you to their friends. Don't live your life so you can impress your kids or grandkids. Don't live life so you'll have plenty of people weeping at your funeral. Don't live life so you'll have great stories to impress others. Live life so you can look in the mirror and be happy with what you see.

[–]enriquex 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Exactly. We have no purpose on this planet. 50-80 years after you die, no one will be alive who remembers you. Might as well be happy.

Then you have the ones who are remembered. They gave themselves a purpose and succeeded.

So, give yourself a purpose and succeed, or be happy. Nothing will be handed to you.

[–]1oldredder 4 points5 points  (2 children)

ya... a lot of the people remembered are Kings and killers like Stalin or Hitler. Very few are remembered who did good things, like Tesla. Generally if you're forgotten you've probably lived a good life and not been an asshole.

[–]1aguy01 7 points8 points  (1 child)

We celebrate tons of great men. Lincoln, Jefferson, Newton, Copernicus, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Einstein, Hawking.. the list goes on much longer the horrible men.

[–]redpillspeeddate 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Life sometimes gives you the trials that either destroy you or make you stronger. If they make you stronger, I consider that you can proudly call yourself a man.

My wife and my first cousin/best friend both died of sudden brain defects (Anuresym for her, undetected tumor cutting blood flow for him) within 4 weeks of each other. To add extra fuel, wife and I had separated 6 weeks before she died. So heavy shit.

Thankfully I had a great father and mother that gave me the tools to manage putting away both peoples lives and then making myself stronger from it.

I believe if you can handle extreme loss and still make it through the insurance, the legal and the family issues that crop up then you can do anything.

Since this happened I have visited 15 countries, been with 50+ girls from 10+ countries, had 3 different jobs increasing my salary 50% with work that I love and actually now have a proper RPW as an LTR (she's new but she checks all the boxes but I know AWALT) not bad for 3.5 years of hard work.

So my measure of a man is does he control his destiny or does someone else? And if his world crumbles can he rebuild it better?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (13 children)

I'd like to give you people a great example of this. I live in Israel, a military country, surrounded by enemies, years of war and years of unbelievable suffering and courage. My grandfather, killed during a war. My grandmother, ran from her home, joined the army. My great grandfather, escaped before the beginning of the Holocaust. Most of the grandfathers of this country came to a deserted, dry, horrible land and built a fucking country. What have we now? A generation obsessed with iPhones, obsessed with stupid shit. My little sister asked me once "What will we tell our grandchildren", "I don't know" I said. Men became men at the age of 13 and not at the age of 30. They weren't lost and confused, they new what they had to do and they did it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Do you think the Muslims are getting stronger while the Jews are getting weaker? I would have thought that a country such as yours with a strong sense of national identity and constant looming threat would be in a better position than other western countries...?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Our national identity has gone to shit honestly. The country is divided into a hundred small groups. Everyone cares only himself. If we don't take care of this now it will be our downfall.

[–]VayneWolf 21 points22 points  (15 children)

Excellent post. I'm in my early 20s, and I absolutely hate it when people call me a man.
We are not men just because we are male and reach a certain age, a real man is forged though years of hardship and effort to EARN the lifestyle he has worked to achieve.
There are very few real men left in these times, and it's communities like the Red Pill that give me hope that someday we adult males can become real men like our forefathers who lived, fought, and died to bring mankind as far as it's come.
Modern Feminism is an insult to their memory.

[–]interestedplayer 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Modern Feminism is an insult to their memory.

I like this quote. We like to say feminism is a giant shit test. It's much more than that, it's an insult to all the men who toiled and became great so that feminists could sit infront of the pcs and write a comment on huffpost about how the patriarchy is oppresing them.

[–]ThoughtOverFear 8 points9 points  (12 children)

Indeed. It's an insult to the men whose blood was shed on the land we live in, so that feminists can now get on the male-invented internet to post about male privilege. Ain't that some incredible shit.

[–]-The-Prestige- 3 points4 points  (6 children)

This is often what I've thought about when I think of getting married, having kids, and being a man. I like to call myself a young man because 1) Duh, I'm still very young (24) and 2) I'm not a grown man yet. I'm a legal adult for all intensive purposes. I go to school, I have a job, a house, and bills to pay, but that is hardly anything that should make me a "man."

It's true, we all have our own personal struggles. I have a pornography addiction I'm overcoming (no pun intended), and working on self-discipline. But everyone has their own vices that they must wrangle and fight with. Getting up and out of bed on time every day hardly makes someone a "man."

I have friends who are fathers, friends who are single, friends going into marriage, and some falling out of relationships. Not one of them I would say is a man, and, as a lot of you probably have friends like this, all of them have varying degrees of alpha/beta traits. But just being an alpha male is hardly being a "man."

I think a man is one who can accurately say how he feels on any matter, whether an expert or a novice. I think a man is someone who can keep himself in check, and if he knows he can't, he has people around him who can help with that. I think a man is someone who is not a respecter of persons*. We're all human, and we're all going to die one day anyway. I think a man is someone who will try to make the best out of any situation. A man keeps his emotions and feelings in check so he can accomplish any task he has committed himself too. But how to make oneself a man, that I don't know. But I do believe figuring it out is part of becoming a man.

Edit: grammar

*see comment below for explanation.

[–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Good post bro, but,

I think a man is someone who respects no person more than anyone else.

I respectfully disagree, as 'respect' is earned, not 'given away', do you see why I disagree?/

If not,, feel free to ask/pm me if you like

[–]-The-Prestige- 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I think you're misunderstand what I've said. I was trying to decide on whether or not to say "a man is someone who does not respect anyone more than someone else" or "a man is someone who is not a respecter of persons."

That phrase "respecter of persons" means everyone is equal; everyone is given a basic amount of respect, no matter what status, wealth, or anything else they may have. If someone has great skill in an area, big whoop. If they're an asshole or a cunt, they will be treated as such. Not given special privileges because of what they might be able to do for me.

This phrase is a biblical one. It is in reference to treating everyone with a basic amount of decency whether they be a king and a pauper; it is all the same. You are right, respect must be earned, but if you don't know who you are dealing with, you should treat them fairly before they show you how you should treat them.

Edit: Formating and added the below part for understanding.

A good way to think of the phrase "no respecter of persons" is that it is said that God is not a respecter of persons. To Him, everyone is equal; because He is God, no one can do anything more for Him that He Himself cannot already do.

[–]RPmatrix 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying

I think you're right! (Bro, hint: please, how about some formatting so I can read your posts more easily?)

Other than that, I agree, although I'd call it "not being judgemental"

Semantics can be important to get the right message across, esp when written

It's all good bro, I know you're trying, which is all that counts



edit: thanks for taking the formatting hint;

p.s I'm basically a buddhist, which is for all intents and purposes, an 'atheist" ... but each to their own, it's NP's with me that you're not

cheers RPM

[–]-The-Prestige- 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sure thing. I forget that Reddit formats different than what I was typing. I'll fix it now.

[–]antariusz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[–]6030747 4 points5 points  (1 child)

been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model

I don't consider these things to be manly.. but whatever.

[–]stevince 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been involved in two bar fights in Dublin and I don't consider it manly either, no pride to be gained from stupid alcohol fueled fights that occur for no reason, felt pretty stupid and childish the day after both

[–][deleted] 9 points9 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Tom_The_Human 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Whenever I want a little boost of motivation, I think of the millions of years of hardship my forefathers have had to endure to get me here, and realise I'm pissing on their graves by squandering my time when there's things to be done.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Exactly my Great Grandfather robbed Czarist banks to fund the Bolshevik revolution so I could live in a Communist utopia. Im not going to let him down.

[–]Tom_The_Human 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah my Grandma and her family are Ukrainian, and had to survive life in a Nazi concentration camp for me to piss away my life on Reddit.

[–]RPmatrix 5 points6 points  (0 children)

lmao! Ah GLO you're a man after my own heart!

My father was a Croation Partisan (who moved to Oz after the war and became a barrister!)

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 8 points9 points  (5 children)

This is a teaser for the origin story of GLO.

[–][deleted] 7 points7 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Thanks for the origin story. Damn, that’s a rough childhood. Folks who have had a tough life don’t have much tolerance for whiners.

Somehow I was expecting to hear that your father started shooting you up with tren when you hit puberty.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 10 points11 points  (2 children)

It really wasn't a tough childhood. My family wasn't ritch but I had everything I ever asked for. I had a pretty extensive transformer collection as a boy. Which is definitely a luxury. I had the megatron transformer that turned into a T Rex. Anyone who had that had a great childhood.

If you are raised on Soviet Values of competitivness, bluntness, and resolve it sets you up for opposition to liberal progressivism. "Cant we all just get along" isn't palletable for someone raised on "Victory at any price."

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Russians have had a rough history so I can see why they would be more pragmatic and competitive.

Now we know why Russians are the scariest white people.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Watch some dashcam videos lol

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Survived cancer, refused to submit to depression and enjoyed a fulfilling life despite lots of physical handicaps and a short life expectancy. Ah, I am about to marry, even if I cannot have kids and I am not supposed to live to 60. Life is short, but good

[–]sundaybrunch11 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Reminds me of the book "Assault on Lake Casitas" which is a book recommended here on TRP itself. It was a book about real men on a quest for Olympic glory. The author's mentor gave him a tape with words of wisdom to get him in the right mindset. It starts off like this and would always give me chills:

" Good day. We are privileged to live another day in this magnificent world. Today you will be tested."

How does this relate to your post? It is in being tested do we get our rites of passage. To be tested to our absolute limits. To be like warriors soldiering on towards a formidable foe.

Wake up everyday with the mindset that today, you will be tested.

[–]RebelWithoutANose 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's easy to romanticize this shit. Fight in a war. Fight in a pub. Do something that excludes caution. Yes, adversity is good, except when it breaks you. Ever heard of survivorship bias? A lot of those men died. A lot who didn't only came out with enough strength to just get by.

What you need to do depends on what your goal, I mean your philosophical ideal, really is.

You want to feel the greatest heights of emotion and adrenaline? Jump off cliffs, start doing drugs, and accept your truncated lifespan.

You want stable happiness? Fix your relationship with your parents, make enough money that you don't have to worry about it, and find something living to take care of, whether it's a family or just a potted plant.

You want to live the Christian good life? Marry a woman, raise some kids, and bend over backwards to make their lives good.

You want to aleviate suffering in the short term? Donate to a charity. Better yet, move to a developing country for a couple of years, do everything you can to help. Last I read, 10% of the world lacks disease-free water. That's a lot of people dying every day.

You want to perpetuate the human race in the long term? Start studying science. Biotech, artificial intelligence, life extension science -- pick one.

[–]TacoPacoPecoPaco 4 points4 points [recovered]

My RP'd buddy told me once that "we [modern men] are living lives of quiet desperation." We long for rites of passage and trials by fire, but they don't exist anymore for most of us.

We have to seek them out; anything meaningful that is so hard and taxing to the mind and body that the experience leaves us changed. It should involve attempting something impossible for your present self to accomplish and the end goal should only be reached after being forced to pick yourself up from the ground over and over. Failure must be an option and not every one of us will pass, but passing isn't the point.

I chose my ordeal three years ago and while its not over yet, I can barely recognize my past self. I've done things that I thought were 100% impossible for me accomplish and though the specifics may seem mundane to you, it was life-changing for me. I broke the laws of the universe in a way, by doing something I wasn't supposed to be able to do. Now, as far as I am concerned, I can do anything I want to do until I am PROVEN otherwise. I am not afraid of being shown my limitations or shortcomings, I welcome them.

Having been through a "trial by fire" of my own choosing, its hard to give a fuck about any of life's little stressors like public speaking, talking to women, confronting violence, etc.

There's no need to run off and join the french foreign legion just because military service is the closest thing we have to a rite of passage. Find your personal odyssey, but be honest about it...if the experience doesn't give you nightmares and anxiety once in a while, it might not be enough to do the job.


[–]Venkas 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Trial by fire of your own choosing. That right there is excellent advice. I chose something I thought was impossible for MYSELF to do, yet here I am in a tech school. Struggle against bad habits and learning more about who I am and what I am capable of. Do it for you and you alone.

[–]-Quotidian 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've experienced that discontent before. It happens whenever I have too much free time and catch up on all the things I let slip. Once I have nothing to do…I get the feeling that I should be out pillaging. If there are any stories I have--not that I plan to have children for a long time yet--they center around standing up for myself, overcoming certain obstacles, and pulling off some crazy shit by the skin of my teeth. But those stories are amusing or entertaining, not inspiring…and barely respectable, in a few cases.

You're right. We need to do more with ourselves. I think most of us need to build up to anything epic, like ice-climbing, but it can be done. Traveling somewhere alone is a great first step. Just like with lifting or approaching, you just need to keep moving forward.

[–]OilyB 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Our purpose imo, is not practical as much as it is more abstract. It has evolved into abstraction. We're not saving lives and killing mammals to protect our families, not building boats and houses with our own hands. Not fighting wars against intruders that endanger our villages. We can work and provide for our families, that's the same as building houses. We can develop peacetime, take it one step further. We can pursue nobility and all the virtues contained in it.

Ours is maybe a spiritual journey, a spiritual mission. Building or developing integrity, truthfulness, being helpful, strength, frustration tolerance, presence of mind, wisdom, insight, knowledge. These are enough to keep a man busy for a lifetime. And throwing our children as far into the future as we can by making them capable people; well rounded adults, is as good a mission as any. (as opposed to just having them survive into adulthood by feeding them and bathing them).

Any thoughts?

[–]jx234 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whilst I agree this is a great post, I struggle with the idea that men need hardship in order to become men.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression that many on this sub actually wish life was more difficult for the majority of the population, as it was during WW2 or the Great Depression.

I think there's a tendency to romanticize hardship here. It's true, a lot of veterans would say that their experiences helped them become the men they are, but that's kind of a truism. It's taking a "no point crying over spilt milk" view. They would have preferred for there to not have been a world war, because the reality of wars, depressions etc, is not stoic men sitting round a fire, being morally serious and talking about how they'll get through this together. It's children screaming because they're literally starving, it's young naive teenage boys being unceremoniously slaughtered, it's men facing the shame of being unable to provide for themselves because of circumstances out of their control.

So while it's true that maybe our lives are too easy these days (See Steven Pinker, 'Why Violence has Declined'), having a lot of beta men these days is a small price to pay. Sure, people should be encouraged to be ambitious, but if they choose to sit in front of the TV all day it's a shame, but better than being mindlessly slaughtered.

[–]1oldredder 10 points11 points  (0 children)

A life of peace is not a bad life. Your post, I say, is out of line. Choose adventure, choose improvement but don't act like only you know what it is.

You don't. A shit-ton of your comments are garbage and this post... is not so good.

We can't all be warrior adventurers. IF we were there'd be no society at all, no civilization, only mercenaries and bandits.

This man you criticize is in fact doing a good thing just not what you want to do. You see but a small shot of time vs a life-time not yet passed for this father to raise his son.

You need to learn humility and listen more, write less. You're out of line.

[–]narazz 2 points3 points  (1 child)

sadly just taking some night classes and getting anAS in art at 34 was an accomplishment for me. pretty much my life is a failure but i'm hoping maybe one day i can at least get good at art. :)

btw the military sucks. i couldnt last a month in it. thankfully my knee gave out on me haha.

[–]theHangedGod 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is beautifully written and the question you raise is one I've had to face throughout my life, so I'll say my piece.

The patriarchy of my family is filled with conquerers. Directly decendend from vikings, my great grandfather homesteaded, broke the land, and broke broncos. My grandfather rebuilt his father's land after 12 children inherited equal shares. My father rose to fame in football, and later, in business. But, me, I was born a wounded child in an tamed land.

Sports were always a struggle and all exploration is done. But all I ever wanted to be was greater than my father and a man who braves the unknown. I lack interest in anything else.

So here I sit, on a computer, exploring whatever's new on the Internet. Wishing there was more unknown to voyage into. Working on a farm I'm destined to be given. But wanting to earn my own existence. A middle child of history.

It's incredible how your eyes open when you find something that was hidden away from you.

I'd heard stories of my viking ancestors being shroom heads, I'd heard Joe Rogan talk about psychedelics on his podcast, I'd even heard a few first hand stories from my musically inclined friend. But, I had no idea what spirituality was until I did it.

For my generation, the war is spiritual. Religion is dying and I was in the wave that killed it. But, the reason religion started still exists, it only faded back into the unknown. I found my place to explore and it's entirely within my own perception.

The psychedelic experience is a tradition in nearly every single culture to ever exist, same with religious traditions. I could speak on this, but I'll direct you to Terence McKenna, there is much more.

It's what I was born to rediscover.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm an EMT in my early 20's. I'm earning my fuckin stripes

[–]causeandcorrelation 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great post. Thanks for your contribution.

[–]cuckingfunt99 3 points3 points [recovered]

Firstly, I REALLY LOVE your post. But I'd like to point out, we did suffer the 2008 crash. Tough times for millions of people across the world. I feel that should count for something. You?

[–]Opanion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Great War can't come soon enough.

[–]CptDefB 2 points3 points  (0 children)

TL;DR: Lifting weights and making money, according to the new Metric of Manliness™ should score higher as they are more relevant and useful to the landscape we deal with on a daily basis. The criteria posited by the OP is outdated, and while serves as great supplement to "Manliness", shouldn't eclipse the true definition in our present environment; money and status. Also, the idea of "deserve to be called a man" is about as silly as, "I want a REAL man.", despite them both alluding to similar, but not the same.

This will probably be an unpopular opinion based on the general level of agreement in this thread. I'm going to disagree with you. As usual, I'll try to explain so we can come to understandings.

So, your metric for Manliness is outdated. I get it, trial by fire/combat/ordeal/whatever. Struggle shapes us, we lose/learn and try to create positive feedback loops if we want to Halo effect our way to victory. No disagreements.

The things you used to describe "manliness", don't work any more. Military service? Anyone aware of geopolitics should be dubious of their own gov/military (and many things learned from can be learned outside of). Travelling? Also no. A cultured man, travel alone does not make. Millions of people spend time traveling and learn fuck all. They spend some money, take some photos, update Facebook then their 2-6 weeks are over... "Omg, it was amaaazing!" Right, sure.

As we came out of the caves of prehistory and built ourselves up to post industrialization, money and status are pretty much the top two, especially in Western societies where the threat of violence is minimal and most of all human knowledge/experience is a Google search away. Most great-grandparents wouldn't know what the fuck I'm talking about, the world has changed that much. They will still understand status and resources, that has never changed.

What's the point?

"Manliness" is a male construct? Something like that. "What did you ever do to deserve being called a man?" I have a dick, so do you. End of story. This question alone sounds a lot like, "I want a REAL man, not a boy." Everyone's all, "Yeah yeah, I want to be a REAL man. My great-grandkids will make old tough guy memes out of me!" No, my friends, do not let the goal posts be moved.

Money. Status.

Ask yourself this: Would you prefer your great-grandparents had "cool stories" and were very interesting, or would you prefer they had status and wealth, to make the lives of their descendants (including you) way easier, during which they could also pass on said stories via wealthy/powerful personalities they've actually met and introductions to said people (for your parents perhaps, who should do the same for you in turn)?

So yeah, go travel, put yourself in difficult situations so that your brain will form new points of reference for your experiences. However, I would say, don't move Money & Status away from their top positions on your list of priorities, even if spinning plates isn't your thing. Surrogacy and single parenthood for a wealthy and successful man would probably be a pretty good life for the child in question... again, probably better than, "let me tell you this story for the 50th time". Lifting weights and making money, according to the new Metric of Manliness™ should score higher as they are more relevant and useful to the landscape we deal with on a daily basis.

You could go be all kinds of interesting... money/status/frame... that's all that matters. Sell drugs, reshape Wall St., makes about 0 difference as long as the main 3 (I know, it was 2 a moment ago) are upheld.

Example: Littlefinger from Game of Thrones. Money. Status. Frame. Doesn't need to be King, doesn't need to conquer on a battlefield... sure, oneitis for Stark but no matter, he made a life for himself. You could sub Littlefinger for any real world, strong business minded person... even if they're not an overt alpha personality, so long as they have the 3, they're "manly enough" just fine. An even better example would be Varys, who can't even fuck and is fatter than most guys here. Fictional, sure. In all of human history, try to tell me a man like Varys didn't exist (especially when the practice was so common as little as 1000 years ago in our 3-5 million years as a species).

[–]charlesomimri 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“Hmm! Adventure. Hmmpf! Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things." Keep your commitments. That is the person who is always referred to as "the man". That is the person who shows up for war or adventure or dinner. You may find that what you consider "the truth" may change over time. Being consistent to your word will not.

[–]curiousdude 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That fight club quote is stupid. Having a great war or great depression to be in is not a good thing. Take risks and try to do something great, but the idea that war or externally imposed hardship makes life meaningful is pure b.s. Just because there's some fantasy out there of being a millionaire doesn't mean you can't have a meaningful life some other way.

[–]masturbator9000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great post. I keep asking myself the same question recently. Especially the "Is that it?" part.

Not gonna lie, it's really depressing. As much as am willing to form myself into a man that is worthy of that title, I don't have a single clue where to start.

How does one become such a man nowadays? The only true challenges we know are health financial success, more or less. Considering those are the only things you can take with you into old age. "I banged a thousand sluts" will be worthless fifty years down the line.

[–]vintagegirlgame 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I know one of the most enlightening and character building experiences my boyfriend had was taking 13 months to travel solo around the world at age 19. He busted his ear drum surfing in Hawaii, he rock climbed all over New Zealand, he made a didgeridoo in Australia, he rode a dirt bike across Zanzibar, he studied with the Bushmen in South Africa, he dug the safari bus out of the dirt when the guides were useless... I never get tired or hearing his travel stories and I know it's the kind of tradition he will want to pass down to his sons. Specifically, making the journey alone was life changing.

The next commitment he wants to make is learning to sail and making an ocean crossing.

[–]Masonjarteadrinker2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't ever save anything, but I couldn't help but to save this right here.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The answer is blowin' in the wind.

[–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I suddenly became an orphan at 17yo and literally moved from the house I'd grown up in onto the streets

I had NO choice but to "man up" or be fucked over.

that was the start, 30+yrs ago, and I'm still working on it

[–]monzzter221 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"That and a pair of testicles"

--the dude

[–]Autodidact-Sanchez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for posting. It reminds me of a section from Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations" that I wrote down in my diary (If you haven't read this book, HIGHLY recommended...I also highly recommend a diary):

At break of day, when you are reluctant to get up, have this thought ready in mind: 'I am getting up for a man's work. Do I still then resent it, if I am going out to do what I was born for, the purpose for which I was brought into the world? Or was I created to wrap myself in blankets and keep warm?' 'But this is more pleasant.' Were you then born for pleasure- all for feeling, not for action? Can you not see plants, birds, ants, spiders, bees all doing their own work, each helping in their own way to order the world? And then you do not want to do the work of a human being- you do not hurry to the demands of your own nature. 'But one needs rest too.' One does indeed: I agree. But nature has set limits to this too, just as it has to eating and drinking, and yet you go beyond these limits, beyond what you need. Not in your actions, though, not any longer: here you stay below your capability. The point is that you do not love yourself- otherwise you would love both your own nature and her purpose for you. Other men love their own pursuit and absorb themselves in its performance to the exclusion of bath and food: but you have less regard for your own nature than the smith has for his metal-work, the dancer for his dancing, the money-grubber for his money, the exhibitionist for his little moment of fame. Yet these people, when impassioned, give up food and sleep for the promotion of their pursuits: and you think social action less important, less worthy of effort?

[–]falafin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life. What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?

That's what I am thinking. I've never really liked the traditional script that society dictates people, go to college, get a job, start a family and live happily every after. At the age of 18 (I'm 22now) I decided that since I am already on this sorry world, might as well have an interesting life. After first year of university, I hitchhiked 2k kilometers to Paris, with only a couple of euro, slept under Eiffel Tower for a couple of days and then hitchhiked back. I was scared to death, anxious but deep inside I knew that I have to do this. I always think this was the rite of passage for me, that's the moment when I finally found my balls and started living.

Now, having found TRP and reading stuff here, I really think I'm on the right path. I want to spend my 20s traveling, backpacking, hitchhiking or whatever. Maybe in my 30s I'll settle down, maybe not. One thing I am sure, I'm gonna see the world and do something interesting.

[–]cmycorps 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is TRP at its core, and for me was the most empowering realization I had- getting women and doing something great with life aren't separate things, they are both byproducts of living a life with no disconnect from our true masculine desires.

[–]Jimmy_Big_Nuts 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry dude, speak for yourself on this one, you must have been lucky or had rich parents or something. Some of us can claim we achieved something against bad odds. Had a fight for life. It does make you a man, you're right. Men aren't born, they are made. Forged against adverse conditions. You aren't a man until you faced something alone so harrowing it removes your sense of innocence, and you have to find your balls to fight it and win.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been focusing on training myself to be able to Join the French foreign legion and do something with my life. Im tried of all this modern bullshit and IDGAF about trying to chase pussy, fuck em their nothing to me. TRP made me realize just how full of shit people are and now i have absolutely no doubts about leaving these people for good.

[–]LeGrandDiableBlanc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You have to earn the title every day by making the right choices over and over again.

[–]mkopec 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ive built things with my hands, like any real man does. I have thought myself that which I dont know, like a real man does.

And now Im passing these skills, knowledge, wisdom down to my two sons, like a real man does.

I dont think you have to fight in wars and face death to become a man. I think there is plenty of battles men go through in their lives to help shape them. And its how you deal with these battles and how you withstand the pain of life how you end up in the end.

[–]NidStyles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I served in the military. Not sure what you guys are bitching about...

[–]Nazrath2112 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What have I endured? (The Narn's in the video are in the anger phase, G'kar = GLO)

  • Abused as a child
  • Watched mother abused by step dad
  • Step dad committed suicide in our house
  • Finished HS
  • Joined the Army
  • Served and discharged with honor
  • Graduated from a trade school
  • Got a job at a video game company
  • Started as a temp, worked my way up to management
  • Never married, no kids
  • Promised my grandpa on his deathbed I would look after his wife after he passed away
  • Spend 2.5 years taking care of my grandma

In my life I have endured much more than the average person and It has given me a strength that not many others have. The rest has yet to be written.

[–]leemanfor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

fuck man...

I don't know what to say.

[–]Sir_Shitlord_focker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"You should always have been well dressed and care about your appearance"

I don't give two shits about my appearance, I have two styles, the suit (work) and the blue jeans (levis 501) with white t-shit, hoodie optional depending on weather.

In fact I find men who spend too much time on appearance to be distinctly effeminate and usually of weak character.

[–]UnkleTBag 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ramble alert, these thoughts are not organized. I went to a lecture featuring architect Bryan McKay Lyons (something like that). One of the things he showed was a picture of two brothers working, one was handing a wrench to the other, but the brothers' positions within the photo bore a resemblance to that renaissance painting where God is reaching down to touch Adam's finger. That image has stuck with me ever since, and is first in line if I ever decide to get a tattoo. We don't keep our identity alive just by replicating genes, we do it by teaching our offspring the various ways we have mastered making nature our bitch. I come from amateur airplane builders, so I developed a wide range of skills as a kid, but since my dad didn't master any particular area (welding, woodworking, etc) I have only basic experience in these areas. It is my job to develop these further so that my offspring has better genes and better software than me. That wrench being passed is the sum total of the electrical signals in my brain. THAT is earning manhood. That wrench gets better and better until I die. It will never be perfect, but the prioritization of developing that wrench is what I consider the prerequisite for earning manhood. There is no event that you go through that makes you a man, since then you could just coast and still be technically a man. You must earn manhood every day. Some days you don't, but you get to try again the next day.

I think this is where I differ from many redpillers. There is a lot on here that is basically glorified hedonism. That is not using the full human capacity. To me, red pill is becoming the God in that renaissance painting and becoming worthy of handing that wrench.

[–]bombilla42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What did I do? I pay my fucking bills - ON TIME, EVERY TIME!

[–]ogrethebuffoon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

These aren't what's missing. What's missing is a mission and a higher purpose that guides your daily actions and a set of values that you adhere to which brings fulfillment. It's progress towards a vision of the greatest version of yourself that brings happiness.

I will tell my grandchildren, if I have any, that I helped hundreds and thousands of people overcome their fears, create better lives for themselves faster than they thought possible, impact the world through awesome businesses, and transform into who they really wanted to be. That's what I do for people as a coach for entrepreneurs. I will have hundreds of great stories about the people's lives that changed as a result of working with me. These are better stories to tell than ones about when I climbed a mountain or whatever which I may do anyway.

If you don't have a career and a calling that fills you up like that, I suggest you get one. It doesn't have to be coaching, but it needs to have higher meaning and purpose for you. If you're just working for money and living for pussy, you've not really swallowed the pill that matters most.

It's not feats of physical prowess or number of hotties banged that makes a man, it's the willingness to do what's needed in the world and to act as though you had unlimited responsibility for the well-being of others.

In fact, stop thinking of yourself as a man so much. It's a limited identity. See yourself as a being with enormous value to create and incredible love to share.

[–]S74RK 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is why I am committed to the path of entrepreneurship in my professional life.

I've already failed a few times since finishing college, learning valuable lessons along the way: how to hold and align a team together, how to know if a technology is ready to be commercialized, how to prep for investor meetings on no sleep.

Yes, I've been flat broke a few times. In fact after failing at my last company, I'm now recovering financially at a job that definitely pays less than my colleagues who went into i-banking or goog/face/soft or consulting. They're busy posting their material possessions on facebook, or getting engaged. I'm busy planning my next mission. You just spent 5K on a new deck at your wife's insistence? That's like 6 months of runway to chase your dreams, man.

Truthfully, I do it for the journey itself. There's no feeling in the world like being "switched on" for 12+ hours a day because you're so motivated in what you do. And since nobody will tell you how to run a business, you're always forced to think about what to do next. Forced to respond in real-time to a changing marketplace. No being passive and waiting for direction from others, because that's a surefire way to fail.

In the same way that being fed bluepill lies leads man to act in unnatural ways, I believe that not having autonomy, control, and responsibility of one's future does the same. It certainly doesn't cause you to grow and gain wisdom worthy of passing down. Would you rather have the grandfather that taught you about corporate culture, playing office politics, pleasing the boss, or would you want the grandfather who was a serial entrepreneur, had to conduct business in multiple countries with an adventure on every trip, was homeless while simultaneously partying with millionaires, and learned how to lead people to glory? I know which one I had, and which one I intend to be.

You weren't meant to have a boss. And if you're in North America, you live in a society where homeless people are literally overweight. You're not going to die if you try something and fail. What are you missing out on? Promotions? Growing up, I never understood the difference between having a 50K salary, 100K, 150K, or even 200K from a job you don't truly want. It's just a bigger house and more stuff. How many adventures happen inside your house? Probably not a lot, unless you're Hugh Hefner. And I'm pretty sure he didn't get to where he is by letting others direct him. In fact:

Working as a copywriter for Esquire, he left in January 1952 after being denied a $5 raise. In 1953, he mortgaged his furniture, generating a bank loan of $600, and raised $8,000 from 45 investors, including $1,000 from his mother to launch Playboy, which was initially going to be called Stag Party. The undated first issue, published in December 1953, featured Marilyn Monroe from her 1949 nude calendar shoot and sold over 50,000 copies.

In closing, I would strongly urge Red Pill men to consider entrepreneurship as a path in life. The world needs more of them anyways. As an added bonus, chicks can't get enough hearing about my adventures so far (and I'm not even a success yet). As a final note, I know many of you are gainfully employed already, actually killing it in your jobs, and aren't desperately in need of jumping ship to do something more fulfilling. But I also know that many more of you are not. And I'd wager that after some time, you might not be either. So know that a more fulfilling path does exist, and it may be your greatest opportunity to share your value with the world.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

What makes you think you were meant to? Danger and difficulty is being eradicated by technology. On the battlefield, even with all the NATO restrictions & treaties and shit, less and less people dying from other people - they're dying to technology. The only difference between civilian "soul" death and death in war from technology is how fast it happens.

warriors by birth, years of brutal exertion, bravery and commitment was the price

You see, before, we've had no choice but to fight, to labor, to undertake danger. If we did not, our town, society or village would fall. Our hind-brains understood this and forced us to proceed after having seen what happens to those who didn't make the same choice (excommunicated, shamed or outright killed. Deserting wasn't kindly looked upon)

Now, we have a choice. For the first time, we don't really HAVE to do those things - this is the result. Technological marvels have ripped our hearts out of the cozy illusion of choice, into the horrors of really having them.

We seek to defend or to gain. In an increasingly complex culture with a dizzying amount of abstraction to stop most via analysis paralysis, what to defend or seek to gain is more abstracted than ever. The people you see today result from abundance complacency as much as the complexity of society exceeding the average individual's mental capacity.

[–]Hennez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What will I tell my grandchildren? I lifted weights day to day and earned money, I partied and fucked girls? I was a wealthy ladies man? Is that it? By my own standards I don't deserve to raise children and settle down if that's my story to date.

While I agree on the importance of asking oneself these questions I don't on the way they're phrased: "What would I tell my grandchildren?". The message is solid and I think the correct way to be asked should be "What would I tell MYSELF 30 years from now when I look back and critically analyze how MY LIFE was?".

Other than that I think you hit the point spot-on. This society now (from 50 or a bit more years back) is very different than what nature imposed on us. We no longer need to "survive" (facing great natural hardships), technology has made that almost irrelevant in day to day life and society has changed in order to account for that. The thing is: humans have not changed (or evolved) to account for that fact. Hence why a lot seems to be missing from our lives.

Nevertheless the fact you mention that there's no point of transition that has to be walked through in order to be considered a man is very real. Something is lacking in that sense. 2 of my 3 all-life-long best(male)friends have children now. One just a year after marrying and he cannot get by without help from his wife's family and the other just a year after reencountering a girl from our university (with a very misterious past) and he surely won't be able to provide for the three of them.

One (the latter) plays League of Legends like there's no tomorrow when he's not on his work schedule. The other doesn't really have almost time to play but when he can he does so.

I cannot but agree with the points made on this post.

[–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the upvoting fervor, remember "what have you done to deserve being called a man" is judged by your standards and no one else's. Hiking the Appalachian Trail may be one mans crowning achievement and another man's waste of a summer and they're both right

[–]old_man_tom3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A bar fight? mate, that's blue pill behaviour; means you can't control yourself however your general point has merit. Men are becoming Nietzche's last men, not for want of things to overcome and achieve but because of the inability to imagine what these things are.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Our generation feel they should be rewarded for just for tidying their room or leaving the house, turning off the video games or going for a walk... Achievement unlocked - go back to sleep."

That was deep. I notice many of my friends do not have hobbies, they don't really do anything. Even their careers (or lack thereof) are paltry and non-interesting. I'm not sure we should care so much about what we tell our grandchildren we have done, however. I think if partying and earning money is all some men want out of their lives then good on them but I think that's a life unfulfilled.

I'm not sure really where I'm going with this post, but maybe I'd like to point out that our generation is so sad with respect to what is mentioned in this post that being a top 10% man isn't difficult.

The truth is:

You should have always been in shape

You should always have been well dressed and care about your appearance

You should have always been able to speak to the blonde in the coffee shop

Just these things alone, most men do not accomplish. As sad as it is, many men have never been complimented by an attractive woman (that isn't a relative/friend of their mother's). Many men have never gotten a woman's number while grocery shopping. Many men have never been in shape after they finished high school football.

Gentlemen, I'm not trying to say that the bar is so low such that anybody can be Top 10%. I'm trying to say that many men will never have it in them to make even the slight improvements necessary to be Top 10%. If you follow what is preached here and make a good faith effort to improve, anyone* could become a Top 10% man, given the competition.

*unless you were born hideous/mentally or physically handicapped

[–]tyson2444 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This truly speaks to me, I've always wanted to enter the medical field for this reason. (not saying I plan to cure anything or become a neurosurgeon, but i'm sure whoever cured polio had something to say to his grandchildren)

[–]breakingmad1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You realise fight club is a parody of anarchy and is mocking that train of thought?

[–]red_gerb 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The question is Beta.

I don't have to DO anything to BE a man. I don't need validation.

I AM a man. therefore I-AM. it begins within, gents.

[–]BlindNowhereMan 1 point2 points  (4 children)

This post is idiotic. The OP has no idea what the joys of Fatherhood bring. Truth is of you done have kids the odds of anyone remembering you 5 years after you dead is close to nil. I generally agree with TRP but if there is one thing I hate about TRP is this notion of self gratification above all else. Because so many fathers choose to so nothing but play videos games doesn't make that the fatherhood gold standard.

There is so much you can do as a father, with you kid that has tremendous meaning..

So OP let me ask you, what was your great right of passage? You are a warrior you say, did you going the armed forced in an effort to better this world? If you are like most here, you talk of being a warior, but won't actually fight to defend anything, as that conflicts with your selfish values.

You are full of crap..

Ps: if you want to be selfish, that's fine, but don't go around flouting your supiriority.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 2 points3 points  (3 children)

One of the reasons why religion is so useful is because it provides a series of milestones complete with self-study, reflection (prayer, meditation), and public ritual. Some people today think they don't need any religion, and that they are so much smarter and better than people who believe in silly little fairy tales. You aren't better or smarter than anyone. People raised sans religion just make some other thing their god--usually money. Without ritualized milestones they don't appreciate growing older and wiser, and they don't receive the joy of helping younger people grow and pass through the same milestones.

Becoming a cynical disbeliever was supposed to be the last step, when you realize that it was more about the process, the story that you believed in. Everything is backward and flipped upside down today, with people starting out as cynical non-believers, and then clutching at straws in a blind search for meaning and a belief-system. It's all fucked.

[–]1oldredder 2 points3 points  (2 children)

No. Religion literally is the bluest of blue pills programming a system of lies into children to make them slaves. Those slaves will turn easily into an army, and have in the past, serving a top-level master.

Religion is poison.

Yes, the atheists are much smarter and provably so.

and then clutching at straws in a blind search for meaning and a belief-system.

Not at all for even one second.

[–]TheRealMouseRat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been chased by a bear, chased by a moose, done construction in the mountains, sailed >12 hours competitions in a tiny boat (while constantly hauling water out of the boat to avoid it sinking), benchpressed 220 punds (100kilos), saved people from suicide. I think I have done some "manly" things, and I keep learning and experiencing new things all the time.

But I can always be better. My experience is that when going trips with the guys is a good way of challenging yourself and seeing new things.

[–]OilyB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I took a detour from a safe banking job to pursue my dream and I'm living it, been living it for 10 years now.

[–]bowie747 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I've wondered through Berlin on acid from midnight to 9am in the snow with a girl I met at a bar, that's about my gnarliest story. On a serious note though, I completely agree that we have no cause. I'm fit, smart, mature, strong, successful enough with women and am financially stable so there's no problems there and yet I remain unsatisfied. There's a very real need to feel a part of something, but what? My current answer to that problem is to pour my soul into my work, I'm in medical research so by making that my life's ambition I'm hoping to be able to improve the lives of some people, and to impart some sort of purely positive impact on the world. I don't know if this will be enough but its what I'm going with for the foreseeable future.

[–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My current answer to that problem is to pour my soul into my work, I'm in medical research so by making that my life's ambition I'm hoping to be able to improve the lives of some people, and to impart some sort of purely positive impact on the world. I don't know if this will be enough but its what I'm going with for the foreseeable future.

Great stuff, I wish you all the best and much success

I get a LOT from helping people who need it, just becoz I can ... not "for something" in return, 'quid pro quo' style - In fact passionately I dislike people who play 'tit for tat' games!

[–]Reanimate_87 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Blaming is always easier and can postpone pain - I sympathize the word postpone, it's a form of giving away power by saying that circumstances are responsible. Environment is something that has a big impact, notice how successful people are way more in their own reality? That's a choice really, having boundries is like a country with borders; your are your own customs while trading/sharing ideas, emotions and recources.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd say even better, if someone else tells your story.

But apart from romantics, it is your shortcoming, your mistakes and failings not creating the life you wanted to lead. Sure we do not have a definitive goal or place, but who has? Life is meaningless, all is vanity.

This is why you should do whatever the fuck you want and not give a shit. Go forth and claim your victory over those dreams, and if not, fail with the force of a thousand comets colliding.

Realise you cannot have everything, and seek what you really wish for. What helped me, personally is making an "Achievement List", not for recognition, not for others, but for my own sake. These are goals, skills to achieve, things to do, stuff to get. Write them down, define them, fight for them. That is all.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want to dismantle common belief systems and receive death threats and honors.

[–]KurrKurr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hope a little lighthearted response is ok:

I work with data and use Wolfram|Alpha sometimes, so I thought I might ask the great Wolfram brain:

Well, I don't think it knows either...

[–]WolfofRainbows 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just always kept my word and didn't let people down. As great as that is, the way I knew I was becoming a man was when I would get constant firm hardshakes from war veterans and nods.

[–]JetteAuLoinTRP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now, what rite of passage would you set in place in our modern society ? Ideas ?

[–]TheJollySatan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4 years military service, it isn't enough either, have to keep pushing boundaries.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For me, its not about being called a man. I don't need anybody to validate me because I know who I am. I know I'm a man. I've overcome a lot of adversity - and I'm sure many of you have overcome a lot too. I didnt just have issues with women, I also had issues getting respect from other men. Now Ive fixed both. With time, I've become wiser and I have a better idea of what's really important. I wanted a career when I was younger. Then I just wanted a job. As long as I can pay for what I need, I'm good. That's less stress for me. And I don't feel the burden of having to impress women into sleeping with me - I can get it when I want. That's a peace of mind I'm glad I have.

[–]Polaris382 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude, this is something Ive thought about quite a bit myself. Im 31...and I still just dont really feel like an adult. The closest thing to a R'ites of passage" for me would have probably been the Navy...and while it sucked it was hardly a significant "rite of passage" type event.

[–]Merica911 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It doesn't make him more of a man because his wife forgot to take her birth control pills. She was probably off it from some time because they probably haven't been fucking. They're tons of warriors out there that doesn't have kids. Also, there's tons of spineless boys out there with kids. It really boils down, if everything was together to get a girl pregnant.

A male is what you are, a man is what you become. Not ever male is a man. Getting a chick pregnant is like breathing air, easy as Apple pie. Now it's what happens the 18 years after that's going to define him.

[–]Stythe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Accurate. Most of us coast through life with little trouble, surrounded by safety nets of family and friends telling us we're perfect and to never change.

I've spent almost a decade looking for what I was missing, only to come to the conclusion that it was lack of accomplishment. It's no wonder people turn to drugs, become elitist assholes in their cliques or sit in misery. Most people don't even appreciate a hard days work. They lack the understanding of accomplishment it brings.

I genuinely believe this culture of depression, or the therapy culture we live in in the west stems from this and, sadly, with no real comparison to force people to understand these deeper truths, we're hooking up with our ego's way too much.

I just hope neuroscience can show us what the brain needs and we can manufacture our own growthspurts in our lives and create a great world. Look unlikely right now, but maybe one day.

[–]ShanksNes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree with some parts and agree with others.

You are entitled to be a man, cause you have a dick and two balls below them. If we here at red pill start preaching others to look up to other people's standards and expectations, then what's the difference between us and the feminine imperative. Part of being a man is to make up your own mind. I don't need to be a good grandfather, a good father or anything. Let me make myself happy and content and then i'll start thinking about others. I make my own rules and have my own goals to achieve. Whether that is being a great grandfather of proud kids or a single conqueror of mountain peaks or a solitary mathematician trying to solve the Riemann's hypothesis is entirely my decision.

However asking questions like what our grandchildren will think of us, or even, what we would think about ourselves when we die is a great way of clearing all clutter and doing away with all bullshit in life. I highly recommend it. But make sure to ask your own question, for everybody is different.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what will you have done?

You should be asking yourself this every day. Self improvement is key.

[–]king-schultz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This, to me, is what TRP should be about. I believe in TRP, but I hate the constant focus on trying to get over on "bitches". Most of the time TRP seems to be targeted towards teenagers trying out PUA bullshit, or stupid FR's of how the OP is bragging about being so "Alpha".

[–]bobjoe177 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that this example applies moreso to urban centres than rural areas (I realize that most people live in some kind of urban sprawl). There are still pockets of masculinity alive and well in less densely populated areas. I'm gonna tell my kids how I planted over a million trees by hand over the course of a decade.

[–]mfigueiredo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Although nice pats on the back, the top comments don't answer the question.

[–]Philhelm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was deployed to Iraq in 2003. I don't think that makes one a man or an alpha, but I noticed that people seemed to view me differently afterward. One of my friends, a former history teacher, confided that he was kind of jealous that he wasn't a veteran. I've also had some guys come up to me and another friend with whom I was deployed and debase themselves by stating that they would be too scared to go over there. My wife is proud of my veteran status whereas I view it indifferently; it wasn't as though I did anything heroic.

I never fired a shot, and was transferred to a bridging company of all things (I was a combat engineer by MOS), but I guess I can say that I had experiences that most young men will never have, and perhaps that gives me an edge, or at the very least makes others think that I have an edge, which can be useful.

[–]the_red_scimitar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First off, a healthy contingency here (perhaps a majority, I don't know) are not interested in marriage, or having children, and won't. So the entire assumption is based first on that one will have grandchildren. This is a perfectly solid, red-pill choice.

There are many types of legacies one can have. As OP pointed out, progeny is one. But really, I think the better question than "what will you tell your grandchildren" is this: What reason will people have to talk about you when you are gone? That can be "good" or "bad" reasons, but where I agree with OP is that you should have accomplishments that are worthy to be told.

[–]themindiseverything0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wonderful points (and form).

IMO hardship does not equal manhood. As in, running from a bear or climbing mount everest only matters if it matters to you. IOWords, being a man is a matter of self-respect. We have no Agoge like the Spartans did nor do we have a collective religious ritualization (bahmitzvah) BUT we do have modern challenges of living in a society that seeks to repress us and encourage mediocrity. As long as we have the clarity to define our goals and pursue them with courage (not caring what others think), I think we all have our own rights of passage.

I don't think the goal should be to impress our kids but to impress ourselves. Who knows what the world will be like when they come into it and who knows if we will even be alive to raise them. The idea is to Not have kids until we feel like we are worthy enough, as personal as that may be. Again, great post.

[–]DJVendetta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm honest and I stick to my principles.

Don't even fuckin' try to bend me in half for anything, I'm made out of Dwayne Johnson.

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