Field ReportKnow your value. If your employer doesn't give you your worth then it's time to leave for someone who will. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by TheDarkTriad

Summary: My bosses didn't want to give me a promotion that I've been going after for over 2 years. They kept giving me the run around about it every time I discussed it with them. I searched for a new job and found one paying nearly double my current salary working in a corporate environment instead of the hard labor I was doing at my old job. Now I make more than both of my bosses.

Body: I've been with the company for a little over 4 years. The company itself is actually not bad. My bosses on the other hand took advantage of me because they knew of my skill sets and that I wanted a promotion. It's known among the workplace that my assistant manager is incompetent (I taught him a lot of what he knows) and my head manager is just a manipulative, disrespectful prick.

Eventually I finally got sick of it. I decided I no longer wanted a promotion because it would be easier/quicker to find a company willing to pay me more. Since I knew I'd be leaving when I found another job I started calling my bosses on their bullshit. As you could imagine, they didn't like that. I made sure not to cross the line that would get me fired though. In the meantime while I searched for another company I started creating boundaries. I started telling them "No" if they asked me to do something I didn't technically have to and calling them out when they were being manipulative or taking advantage of myself or another employee. Creating these boundaries resulted in them taking advantage of me a lot less.

After a month of job searching I got a call from a hiring agency for a company I applied to. They wanted to do a phone interview which led to a face to face interview, which led to a face to face interview with the CEO's partner of the company, which led to an interview with the CEO himself. And you know what? I got the fucking job. Peace of cake. Because I knew my value and made sure I showed that I knew my value. It also helped that I recently read "How to Win Friends and Influence People". Man was that book immensely helpful during my interviews. Seriously, go read it if you haven't already. Not only did I get the job but they offered me double what I was making with my previous employer.

I went from blue collar to white collar. I'm now working in a corporate office environment. I get to dress like a professional, I have my own office, and I'm getting paid well. Full benefits package with paid holidays and paid vacations. I work in the mornings Monday-Friday with a set schedule. My previous employer I would work anywhere from 12am-8pm to 6am-2pm to 2pm-10pm. I would have a schedule like this 5 days a week and it would be completely random. Fuck that noise.

I start my new job soon and I can't wait to tell my bosses. The look on their faces will be priceless. They'll have to find somebody else to take advantage of and they know it will be really hard to find someone like me who was willing to go above and beyond for their job.

My assistant manager told me it would be years before I make the salary I wanted. Now I make more than him after a month of searching.

Lessons Learned: Know your value and set boundaries with people from the get-go. If you know your undervalued find someone who is willing to pay you your worth. Be a go-getter because it sure as hell won't just come to you.

[–]scrantonic1ty 136 points137 points  (52 children)

People who overperform are almost universally taken advantage of. They'll be promoted only up to the point where they can be taken advantage of the most - middle-management, aka senior management's bitch.

At the lower levels your job performance doesn't matter anywhere near as much as your skill as a politician. Making friends and influencing people is paramount.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (6 children)

"Prove you're a good digger, and they'll just give you a bigger shovel," or something like that. The worst people with this mentality are older women. They fucking hate being shown up. They're babies in the workplace.

[–]ColdEiric 3 points4 points  (4 children)

"Prove you're a good digger, and they'll just give you a bigger shovel," or something like that.

I love this. I'm keeping this. Thank you for this.

Older women? Hate being shown up? Babies in the workplace?

Care to explain?

[–]1aguy01 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I take it you've never had a female boss?

[–]MyRedAccount 1 point2 points  (2 children)

He's talking about the chip on their shoulder I bet. I doubt you'd see it everywhere(traditionally female roles probably don't have a lot of it), but in production you sure as shit do. They know what they do is pretty easy, that they're not able to physically perform on the level of the men, and suspect they only have the position as a token. They're positively venomous if you try and help them and they think it might make them look bad. It's like short guy syndrome(by this I mean the insecure short guy, it doesn't really have to do with height, could be cock, weight, whatever), but worse.

[–]1NV0K3R 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is pretty much why I do the absolutely minimum amount of work at my development job. Been here two years, pay is shit, raises are shit, benefits are shit etc. One guy busts his ass and works a fuck load of hours and everyone else just makes fun of him. Found out the other day I made more than him as a new hire.

Not sure where I saw it but vertical promotions are almost non-existent now a days and many professionals are doing the whole "horizontal promotion" ie telling their current job to fuck off and getting a new one with way better pay.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 31 points32 points  (5 children)

That's pretty much what happened to me. I took on so much extra responsibility and was able to perform well. So they kept me there because it helped them further their own agenda and made them look good.

[–]Complecs 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Make no mistake, that isn't want happened to you. That is what you did to yourself. You'd do well to learn that lesson for the future. I've been there before aswell.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Welcome to corporate America where everything bad you described is the norm. The culture of corporate America is very sick.

[–]slappinbass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's worse elsewhere. There's a nasty underbelly to it everywhere.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Good on you bro. As others say, this shit is norm. I've had about 6 full time jobs and done freelance for a decent spread. You'll find the same stuff but in a more evolved form at your new job. And you nailed it, rule 0 is set boundaries from the get go. Then you're congruent when you continue to hold them, and we love us some frame.

I'm fairly unpopular with a lot of people at my job in my department (engineering) because I set hard boundaries and sometimes passively resist my [manipulative as fuck] middle manager... but I've not been fired and all the officers and sales/creative/marketing departments love me, so it would be very unpopular to can me. This has lead to at least one situation that I think was engineered to put me between a rock and a hard spot with my VP. I am pretty sure I slayed that conversation (VP and my manager in the room, I don't think the VP reacted as my manager anticipated--I think I got respect out of it).

Point is, keep watching your back and congrats on moving the fuck up in the world.

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar 10 points11 points  (3 children)

This cuts directly to the core of the Ricky Gervais Principle, which I would recommend everyone google and read up on.

[–]scrantonic1ty 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yep, it's brilliant. One of those pieces that gives you regular 'aha' moments as it completely shifts your perspective on real-world scenarios.

[–]Osoto_Gari 2 points2 points [recovered]

Thank you for that - it's blowing me away.

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Once a year or so, I encounter a paradigm-shattering article. This (combined with PowerTalk) was it for two years ago.

[–]mdadm 16 points17 points  (2 children)

At the lower levels your job performance doesn't matter anywhere near as much as your skill as a politician. Making friends and influencing people is paramount.

At EVERY level influencing people is what will win you the contract / job. The quality of your work / product / service almost never matters. Its 90% people skill, 9% everything else.

I started a business in my early twenties founded on "If I provide better services than my competitors at fair price, I will succeed".

Then reality bitch slapped me so hard I got a nose AND ear bleed.

My competitors did whatever it took to get ahead, including slandering me. They won contracts for services even with prices 2-300% higher than mine. So now I do the same. Fuck em.

I overprice the shit out of my service so people think they're getting something premium and shit on all my competitors at every turn (professionally).

Everyone is out to get theirs. I'm happy as long as I get mine. Everyone else can go to hell. I tried the honest route.

You know what they say, nice guys finish last in their hand.

[–]Easih 3 points4 points  (0 children)

reminds me of a developer contractor I know who went from like 50$ an hour to 100$+ rate (remote contract work) and his clientele did not decline; some company wont deal with contractor when they charge too low.

[–]BlackHeart89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love this post, man. I feel exactly where you're coming from.

[–]laere 5 points6 points  (8 children)

What is overperforming?

What is the right amount of work to do to not seem like someone to take advantage of?

We really need more posts like this, because when it comes to careers and finances, idk what the fuck I am doing.

I always thought that you wanted to avoid becoming friends with co-workers and socializing with them other than work-related issues?

Example: Everyone at my small workplace are facebook friends and hang out together after work. I don't have facebook, nor do I like going out to bars.

[–]MarvelousWhale 11 points12 points  (4 children)

From the little experience that I have;

You should be looking for a friendship with your coworkers. I hang out with coworkers at bars, have lunch with them, etc.

The people you surround yourself with eventually define you. I went to my CEOs birthday. I went kickboxing with my company's CFO once, showed up to work over an HOUR late MORE than once, and she whispers to me I shouldn't do that cuz the CEO might notice.

Quiet guy in the corner who doesn't know your last name? He's fired for showing up fifteen minutes late.

The secret = treating your coworkers like you did with other kids at summer camp when you were a kid, having a fun time with an IDGAF attitude, and viewing your work like fun little projects where you say "how far can I take this..."

[–]laere 5 points6 points  (2 children)

See this is sort of what I thought at first, however, I've seen other advice here where people say don't be-friend co-workers, keep to yourself, keep things work-related etc.

You know what I mean? It's like well this guy said this, that guy said that.

Now that I think about it though, if I look at it objectively, you can have fun at work, be friends with co-workers, yet not make it personal and avoid gossip. I guess I overthink shit too much still.

[–]MarvelousWhale 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't say your over thinking it, but I'm an overthinker myself and I pride myself in thinking that if people thought about things more often they wouldn't be pieces of shit they usually turn out to be. But maybe I'm just over thinking things.

Anyways, to what you said, find what makes you feel comfortable. And then push the boundaries of that comfort zone a little bit each day. You're not going to walk into work one day like Bradley Cooper in limitless because you read a fucking post on Reddit that blew sunshine up your ass.

Always excel. Oh and don't fucking gossip. Jesus Christ, I think I read a post somewhere on TRP that went something like "there's 3 levels of intellectual conversation, people, events and ideas. Girls mostly talk about level 1, people. Gossip, flirt, argue, etc. Rarely reach into level 2 and when they do they always drop back down to level 1 by interjecting their own reality into why said event must have happened. Mens conversation usually stick to level 3."

Don't gossip, that is reserved for the dregs of the barrel of intellect.

[–]the99percent1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

corporate environment is just another form of high school cliches.

only difference is that instead of clicking with the popular studs, you should be clicking with the people who bring in the money to the company.

CFOs, CEOs, managers, directors etc. The advice of not befriending the guys at work applies to guys on your level and below you. Your job is to make those guys your work bitches. Make them do your work whilst you work to please the CEO/directors/management.

That is the game.. how do you click with managers? Offer them your full loyalty and support. Be hardworking, stay back and do those hours. Complete the assignments, go above and beyond the call of duty and dont bitch about work to anyone. Those are the guys who will give you the promotion and retain you during redundancies. Understand the stresses of your managers, have empathy for them. Their job isn't easy at all..

Note: I never mentioned anything about doing your job fantastically well.. You don't have to be the best coder, a walking dictionary, an Einstein at your job.. no.. seldom does your performance have to do with your work, but how you manage the expectations of your bosses. If you want to keep your job and get promotions then get on your knees and please your motherfucking bosses.

[–]paleowannabe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My opinion (it may be biased, since I'm a subcontractor on 6 months worth of working arrangements at a time) : when I'm working, I'm working. When the prolongation time comes around, you have to keep your priorities straight, and your loyalty is then to be with you and your family, not your customer, colleagues, boss or whoever. They almost certainly can manage without you, and you can't afford being a pussy. So preparation is everything. Don't be irreplaceable - be the best man to do your job, but not the only man to do it. Get your options sorted out beforehand, and have one another as good or better almost signing. Be ready to quit, and realize, that your personal relationship with people at work is not the same as your professional relationship with them. Be sure that they would drop you in the instant it becomes unnecessary or risky for them to keep supporting you. And then start negotiating.

[–]voatiscool 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is the right amount of work to do to not seem like someone to take advantage of?

However much work everyone else doing.

I always thought that you wanted to avoid becoming friends with co-workers and socializing with them other than work-related issues?

You should generally avoid being friends, but you should socialize. If someone is trustworthy, then you can be more open with them.

[–]scrantonic1ty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't have to socialise with your equals, just make sure you get on good personal terms with superiors. Do enough work to a sufficient quality to avoid standing out or being considered a poor worker, just blend in somewhere in the middle.

What is important is being seen as a good "team player". Do what is asked of you and don't definitely don't do anything that makes your superior look bad.

[–]unassumingusername7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Become friends with them, but don't become bffs. You want them to like you, but you wouldn't want it to be weird if you became their boss.

[–]epistemic_humility 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Can confirm. I over performed like mad in a support tech role and watched my coworkers get promoted for almost two years because they could do the whole winning friends and influencing people bit.

I expressed many concerns and tried to get my actions recognized to no avail. Two months on the job market and I'm bouncing into a new company with a 60% raise!

I failed at socializing and that's why I didn't get a nice promotion at the old place. See my post history for the details about that train wreck.

I can't agree with you more OP.

Edit- 60% not 160%

[–]akjoltoy 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That's awesome dude.. if you don't mind my asking, at least ballpark, what were you making at the first job?

Making 2.6 times what you were before is insane. I've heard of it before but it's rare and your quality of life must have gone through the roof!

[–]epistemic_humility 0 points1 point  (1 child)

My bad, 60% raise not 160%!

Still quite a quality of life increase.

I was floating in the mid 40's.


[–]akjoltoy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's awesome dude. Love to hear those stories

[–]Magnum256[🍰] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This is absolutely true. Overperformers are actually less likely to be promoted than underperformers. You'll often see people that appear inept or lazy getting promoted to middle-management positions because the company can't justify terminating the person, but at the same time the middle-management position isolates that person from doing any serious immediate damage to the operation, whereas in a lower position (laborer or customer-rep) you have more direct hands-on involvement in the process and in upper-management you have direct decision making involvement.

Overperformers are seen as valuable but only within their immediate impact area and the first thought when it comes to promotion opportunities is often, "but who will replace this overperformer if we move him up???" and when they can't think of anyone they realize that it's better to just leave the overperformer exactly where he is.

If you're ambitious the best approach is to generally do just enough to appear competent (not inept/stupid) but not an overperformer, and instead spend time building relationships with management so you're a consideration in their mind for promotions based on your character/personality and not due to your overperforming work abilities.

[–]Easih 0 points1 point  (0 children)

or make sure you are not irreplaceable by training other people who can also do your work.

[–]ChairBorneMGTOW 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep. Even in the military. In the Canadian Army. Through accelerated promotion, I rocketed up to E7 (WO) in 9 years, practically unheard of. Didn't get promoted again for another 9 years... Even doing the CSM's job for him (he's the E8 above me).

For years I got promoted on competence, but at a certain level politics becomes more important. I'm (belatedly) learning that lesson now...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

its the curse of competence. You can more in professional managers (who are generalists, and not able to do any work down) if the supervisors are competent (can work one level up, and one level down).

[–]voatiscool 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You do still need to meet a minimum level of competency though.

[–]Merwebb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I work with 2 other engineers that are good doing everything but their actual job, they get along with anybody, happy overall.

Im on the other side of the spectrum. Im fucked.

[–]BlackHeart89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is something I took note of while working at entry level positions and corporate. Hell even at walmart, I had a few friends who literally did about 80% of the work in their departments. Because of this, all the supervisors would bypass us and go straight to them with any complaints or demand about the work. Then someone else gets promoted. It sucks.

Now at my current job, I went from being an assistant to somehow during ALL of the work. Yet my pay and title is still the same. Maybe they plan on fixing this soon as its really been getting hectic for the last 4 months and I've only been there a little over a year.

Regardless. I'm resigning to start back school full-time and keeping my other job. Fuck that noise.

[–]godiebiel -1 points0 points  (1 child)

This couldn't be further from the truth. And adding insult to the injury:

Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to accurately evaluate their own ability level. Conversely, highly skilled individuals may underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks that are easy for them are also easy for others


[–]scrantonic1ty 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Care to expand? Asserting that I'm wrong without explaining why is pointless...

[–]solbrothers 0 points1 point  (9 children)

This is where im at right now. I am the general manager's bitch. It pays decent and it is a very relaxed job, but i do the work of 3 people. It can be very tiring.

[–]throwawaymatthew 8 points9 points  (8 children)


[–]solbrothers 1 point2 points  (7 children)

I should. I have looked online and similar jobs pay 25% more than what im making.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Then what are you waiting for? Employer loyalty is a defunct concept. They don't give a shit about you; return the favor.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 6 points7 points  (4 children)

The only way to get a raise these days is to give your two weeks notice and shake your boss's hand as you move on to the next job.

[–]solbrothers 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I was just talking to a manager at work about this. That's really the truth, unfortunately. The only way to make more money is to leave.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 5 points6 points  (2 children)


Also remember never actively burn any bridges. They may want to hire you back a couple years down the line and pay you what you're really worth.

[–]greencrack 2 points2 points [recovered]

I"m in this same boat doing a 3 man job for a company that can't stop buying more companies and cutting staff. When I leave soon I need to hold frame and not bark at them all the things they need to do to in order for Their company to grow. I should charge them for that with a smile.

[–]Kyuzo_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This. Going to keep it in mind for the exit interview I've got coming up this week. So damned tempting to point out what a bunch of asshats they are, but gotta remember to stay cool and professional about it.

[–]1sardinemanR 18 points19 points  (24 children)

That's how to do it.

And I agree on Dale Carnegie's book. It was also recommended to me. Every white collar worker with any responsibility should have read it at least once, probably more.

In this world, especially in the West as a man, you MUST look out for yourself because nobody else will. Employers preferentially hire females and treat them better. For young people (those under 35) women earn significantly more than men, and this gap will get larger as these women then move into higher level positions.

Your salary history and career trajectory are everything. For a man to get anywhere, he MUST drive a hard line and quickly jump from employer to employer until he's made up the significant gap he starts out at for being male. And even then you can't rest easy.

Now honestly, the absolute best thing is to own your own business, and then control your income. Real estate is the way to go these days, own several properties and you are set. Tie rent to CPI and add in a little extra for yourself. Maintain your properties, be an excellent landlord and build your rep, with the city and the communities you are in.

But you can't just do that right away, so you have to work first, as you are doing. Good to see it.

[–]WerewolfofWS 5 points6 points  (15 children)

So you agree that job-hopping is a good strategy for the average RP-er? I'm only 27 and am now on job 5 thinking of job 6. I make six figures but I still feel underutilized and under paid compared to a lot of my peers.

[–]1sardinemanR 4 points5 points  (8 children)

Keep job hopping until they put you in charge. That is how the upper class works too. Either that or start your own business. And if you're going to start your own business, you want the most connections you can have, and when you've worked for several companies in the industry you have that in.

Even Bill Gates and Steve Jobs job hopped around and worked for their competitors first.

[–]foldpak111 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I recently made a ton of connections and I'll tell you, association is everything. If you can't find any mentors (which you should as it's ridiculously easy, just get a customer service job and be extroverted as hell), you can read tons and tons of books and YouTube videos. Did you guys know they put MIT computer science and Yale business courses on YouTube for free? Something to think about...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are a lot more courses available online and not only videos, but also quizzes, homework and so on.

coursera.org , for example

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

How soon after a position should I jump?

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Common consensus would say 1-2 years.

After 1 year you should start looking for other opportunities. However, if at the 6 month mark your dream job lands in your lap don't be afraid to bail early. Likewise, if you are still getting promoted, getting raises, etc... feel free to stick around longer. The problem comes when your career stagnates and there's no more room for advancement which is what many people here describe... waiting years for promotions that never come, asking for raises but not getting them, etc...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thank you. I'm exactly at the 6 month mark from employment, which I got after one year of devastating job search while unemployed. I had been aiming for this specific job, and while my current position is not exactly that dream job, I'm still in the same industry doing somewhat relevant functions. I'm actually quite satisfied with the office atmosphere, people I work with, etc., but it's just that it's not exactly what I had been preparing for. I have some qualification which is geared specifically for that job, otherwise somewhat irrelevant. Nowadays, a friend working for that dream job in one of the biggest companies in nation keeps referring me to openings, and I have been wondering if this would be too early and that I should wait for about 6 months till asking him again.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dude... Just go for it! Worst case scenario is your resume ends up being run through the shredder. Best case scenario is you get an interview and possibly a job offer with a potential raise for having 6+ months of experience. At that point the ball is in your court and you're holding all the cards.

Remember... the best time to look for a job is when you still have a job.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A year or two is probably the average.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

If you're only 27 and making 6 figures then you're doing it right. That's solid money right there. Serious.

[–]voatiscool 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just keep job hopping until you stop getting paid more or are really happy with your job.

[–]mzackler 0 points0 points [recovered]

Depends what your skill set is and what industry you are in. Also that seems to be excessive job hopping. Switching every year is a huge red flag no matter what people here tell you.

[–]WerewolfofWS 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Understood, I am in the tech industry though where that is a little more accepted compared to more conservative industries like Accountancy or Finance.

[–]foldpak111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was JUST reading this blog "how to make a million dollars from real estate" from the website biggerpockets.com. I know very little about real estate so it'd be nice for my fellow RP'ers to check out the 7 year plan (which seems totally realistic). I don't want to make a million off of it, but the 57,000.00 in cash flow looks real good.

I'm sure everyone is interested that works a job wants you to delve deeper, because working a job is a losing game for men. We get treated like we're less than zero... thanks for your time if you decide to reply, I really appreciate it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Wait wtd? Women get paid more??? This is literally the first time i heard this...It's usually the other way around

[–]1sardinemanR 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They want you to think it's the other way around so that they can continue their victimhood complex and whine more.

But everyone that knows these things has realized it the past 10 years now. Washingtonexaminer did a recent article blowing the lid, but I doubt it will be mentioned much, since feminism and the media have a vested interest in people thinking otherwise. Same way TRP would never go mainstream either.

[–]voatiscool 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Single women in their 20s make more than single men in their 20s.

What happens is that as they age, women start placing a lower priority on their career. They prioritize family and low stress work, while men keep placing a high priority on money and keep going up.

[–]1whatsazipper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At Last, Women On Top

according to a new analysis of 2,000 communities by a market research company, in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., the median full-time salaries of young women are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group.

[–]buffalo_slim 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Employers preferentially hire females and treat them better. For young people (those under 35) women earn significantly more than men, and this gap will get larger as these women then move into higher level positions.

Do you have a source for this? It jives with a lot of what I'm seeing as someone in my mid-20's entering the workforce, but I would love to be able to throw some stats in someone's face.

[–]1sardinemanR 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well the lamestream media is loathe to admit it, but try this first: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ny-fed-women-grads-out-earn-men-right-out-of-college/article/2569592

Also use NY Federal Reserve data where you can get it. You can pick through public budgets for federal and city data sometimes too. Most bankers know and might admit in hushed whispers if you have good relationships with them (I do through work and connections).

[–]newls 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Funny how they will simultaneously praise this news as positive and then 5 seconds later with a completely straight face say "we need to tackle pay inequality."

They always follow up any praise of 'good' news with "but there's still a problem with [topic]." That should tell you something about their capacity for hamstering.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (17 children)

Fuckin- A. I'm in a similar position. Fuck it - I have a meeting on the 14th of this month with managers about salary. If I don't get what I want, I'll start looking. This is the kick up the arse I needed in regard to this.

[–]Cookiest 81 points82 points  (12 children)

Start looking now. Knowing your worth before you go into salary raise negotiation will give you abundance mentality and give you more confidence helping you win more at he table.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (8 children)

Also, how awesome would it be to just immediately whip our your two week notice after they deny your request?

Oh, so I CAN'T have the raise I deserve? Okay, see you later then.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Did exactly this. Felt good.

[–]Cookiest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But yes. It would be awesome.

[–]Cookiest 0 points1 point  (5 children)

If they denied my request I would use the offer as a last gambit. "Oh no raise? I have an offer for 8k and a promo. Can you match?" If they don't want you they won't match. If you're that important they'll try or counter.

I wouldn't just immediately walk away.

[–]backbayguy 11 points12 points  (1 child)

This is terrible advice. As soon as you decide to leave, you leave. Never Accept a Counteroffer!

[–]Cookiest 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is one very persuasive article. I don't agree with everything but I I'll agree with the overall message.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Nah, if you show your cards they know you've been looking and can/will leave. They will give you the raise for the month it takes to replace you and then fire you. If it comes to that point, just quit.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

^ This.

Even if they do keep you they will resent that you went in to the negotiation and played hard ball. You're better off basically nexting your current boss and moving on to the next job. Abundance mentality... there are plenty of jobs out there waiting to be filled.

[–]epistemic_humility -1 points0 points  (0 children)

you read my mind. I was going to say ALWAYS be looking for new gigs just to feel them out and see what you're actually worth.

[–]voatiscool 3 points4 points  (1 child)

There is no reason not to look for a job. It costs you nothing but time.

Worst that happens is you say no to the job offer.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're right. I've been telling myself I'll work to end of this project then move on, just giving myself excuses not to look. Time to pull finger out of anus

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good for you. Keep in mind I got lucky finding a new company in a month. It can take a year or two to find a new, good paying company. Good luck in your search if you end up having to.

[–]MGTOW_player 23 points24 points  (4 children)

What I don't get about companies these days, especially in STEM, is they often are unwilling to offer any significant raises or bonuses. This despite getting additional certifications, training, and/or consistently delivering results significantly above quarterly targets. Then they act like "it's just so hard to find/retain talent." These companies would retain more value in the long term if they actually raised salaries to even keep up with inflation/cost-of-living, not to mention actual progress in skill. But the way executives structure their compensation to be based more off stock price rather than salary, due to taxation reasons, seems to have trickled-down this short-term mentality into smaller businesses as well.

It seriously pisses me off that I'll probably have to job hop every year or two for the foreseeable future if I want any significant pay bump. I'd love to stay or would have stayed at companies in the past had they even been somewhat competitive with what other firms were offering to jump ship.

Pack light, gentlemen. Employers, like women, are increasingly urging us to pump and dump them. Give them what they are really asking for. They'll respect you more for it, and you'll be better for it.

[–]trp_s 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Don't think of a company as a singular entity.

Every department has people with different KPIs and individuals who have their own incentives. Every one is trying to get ahead of everyone else (except for the ambitionless who are happy just to draw a wage). A company with a truly exceptional executive team will line up incentives to grow and retain people.

However, executives are only people as well. As has been noted, sometimes they're not even particularly skilled or intelligent. Sometimes a person with leverage but no leadership skills obtains a leadership position because of the revenue they control. The fact of the matter is, it takes truly exceptional people to organize large groups of people into functional teams while keeping everyone happy. It takes unusual perceptiveness and a deep understanding of social metaphysics to be able to keep egos in check and political backstabbing to a relative minimum. However, this requires the person on top to possess a high degree of political and social acuity.

I see a lot of angst in this thread over how company's operate and how people feel they get shafted if they don't switch jobs once every few years. From my perspective, these people are learning practically nothing and will only face the same problem over and over again. You want to scale the corporate ladder? You need to understand why teams, managers or executives are what they are. It is always important to understand where the power lies and what the powers that be are trying to optimize for. If you catch on to their game and align with their interests, in general, they appreciate it. It's sort of an "heh, we're all in this together" sort of thing.

The training, the certs, whatever, those are all signalling mechanisms. You might get a promotion out of those things alone at a lower level. But moving higher faster is a different skillset altogether than simply being good in your existing role.

[–]tuzki 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I agree with you, and I similarly can't explain it except to offer this insight: the middle managers can't actually do the work that their subordinates are doing. Thus, they have no idea what is hard, and what is not, what takes time and what does not. They assume competent engineers grow on trees, despite their own lack of skill.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face 12 points13 points  (3 children)

I did this at a company for two years, always getting promised a raise soon.

In the end, they never offered me one, and I got a job nearly making double. With the job skills from this job, I'm getting offers nearly making double -that-. So my current offers are 3x-4x what I was making 2 years ago.

From what I can tell, companies rarely offer a raise. It seems dumb, and I feel it has to be incredibly expensive to continually have to employ new workers rather than just giving raises.

[–]nillotampoco 2 points3 points  (2 children)

What proffession do you work in? I work a blue collar job and it just blows me away that you can double your salary by taking new positions.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am a software developer, self-taught.

The first job (not my first job) was at a company that wasn't legit with the technology we were using. They tried to pay for the least amount they could for developers. I was making about $36,000 a year, which is ridiculously below average developer salaries.

The current job I'm at is about 50,000, which isn't quite double, but is not crazy far from it. It's also far lower than most people make in software dev. I didn't really negotiate that much at this position.

The last offer, the salary mentioned was $80,000, but that was the starting offer, and they seemed willing to potentially offer about $100,000 if I could show I had skills.

So while it was less than half in each case, it wasn't too far.

[–]Easih 1 point2 points  (0 children)

haha me too; im a programmer and doubling my salary would be going from junior to senior with 10 years of experience at most company except high end finance.

[–]SpatulaThrower 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Kudos I was in a similar situation. Regularly put in 60ish hours a week, chasing aggressive "goals" every quarter and during the yearly reviews, bosses hemmed and hawwed over giving a 2.3% raise. I spent 6 years in my previous company with a very BP attitude. During my 6th year, there was a company wide pay freeze.

I started searching for jobs and since I hadn't interviewed for a job in 6 years, boy I was unprepared. I got a job offer after 5th interview that was (marginally) 10% higher than what I was making then. But now I had another job offer and IDGF attitude followed naturally.

I wanted to see how far could I push the raise. I took 4 weeks off and started lining up job interviews. At end of 4 weeks I had an offer with a 50% hike (I took this job). I got better at interviews along the way and discovered secret to IDGF attitude.

Now I write down technical accomplishments every 2 weeks and just give job interview every 6 months (I have set calendar alerts)

Lessons Learned: Interviewing is a skill that can be honed.
Regularly give interviews to find your worth and keep practicing
Options = IDGF attitude

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]SpatulaThrower 4 points5 points  (1 child)

IDGF attitude comes from having multiple available options that you can exercise.

Opposite of which is - Not having options often which leads to Oneititis because you cognitively assign much higher value to that single option.

[–]GuitarHero07 8 points9 points  (2 children)

This is sound advice. In this day and age you can't count on a steady job with good career progression a pension. It's similar to the situation with dating/relationships. You always need to have options and be ready to walk. In the same way you have multiple plates spinning, you should have a few opportunities lined up in case things go south.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Ha, what a profound thought actually. Dating and careers have gone in the same direction: no solid retirement plan and no long term loyalty. Either work for yourself, consult, or check out of the game.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep and ironically it's for the same reason.

Women have no reason to be loyal to their man. Businesses have no reason to be loyal to their employees.

As men wake up to this reality loyalty is removed from the equation causing men to be more mercenary. If I work then I get paid. If I date then I get laid.

[–]UnluckyPenguin 9 points9 points [recovered]

I searched for a new job and found one paying nearly double my current salary

Congrats. I did the same thing. Found a job that doubled my salary, but before I received the job offer the hiring company kept trying to get me to tell them how much I made at my last job.

I wouldn't tell the new company what I was previously making so they actually had to pay me what I was worth.

[–]wildchild11 0 points1 point  (2 children)

as someone who should have done this last week - i'll keep this in mind from here on out. that being said, a lot of companies have online applications in which its mandatory to list your former pay history

[–]Ovadox 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Take what you actually make and tack on 50%.

[–]life036 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Peace of Cake

The definitive Marie Antoinette documentary, coming this fall.

[–]mehnster 6 points6 points [recovered]

I worked at an engineering company for about 9 years. All was well at first, then a new manager started. Real friendly guy. Except raises went down to the point that they would just keep up with inflation. No promotions. "But it's a great company to work for!". Negative encouragement was a norm because management knew I would take everything as constructive criticism, and not defend myself. I grow a pair of nuts. I realize I'm surrounded by a bunch of twats and I've undersold myself for too long. I ask for a promotion and raise. I'm promised this. I know better and look for another job. Receive offers. One is for 3X what I was making. Decide on one that would pay me ~40% more. Understand that this is what I should have been making for the past couple years. I'm offered a shit raise and no promotion when the time comes for yearly reviews. I'm told I'm not worth what I think I'm worth. I show the manager one of several offer letters, the one for 3X the money. I swear him out, calling him a liar. I walk out. He's stunned.

I'm still not happy, knowing I can make more. I'll be shopping around when the time is right for a pay-bump-jump.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Why did you decide to go for the +40% job instead of the +300% one?

[–]mehnster 1 points1 points [recovered]

Location, really. My previous job had me traveling all over and I was tired of it. It was great at first but really wore on me. I decided to stay in my home state. Plus the higher pay would have had me living. Out of hotels and working in the northeast, outside. Brr.. Do I regret it? Yeah, because that work would have given me the work I feel I excel at, working with people and making systems work instead of on paper and dealing with office politics. But that kind of work I've just now found is available in the area. I'm just gonna get my licensing and then bolt for more money

[–]aDrunkenWhaler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My advice would be to go for the highest paying job, save money and invest. Be your own boss. Make a goal out of this. A career as an employee will very very rarely get you in the 1%, even if you reach top management. Cool projects, better work environment, job satisfaction, benefits, promotions yada yada are smoke in the eyes that only keep you away from financial freedom.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well when comparing offers you need to also consider the non-monetary compensation offered as well as those perks and benefits tend to save you money in the long run... Like say being given a company car saves a huge amount of money for you on insurance, gas and vehicular upkeep.

[–]1Rumble_in_the_Jungle 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I start my new job soon and I can't wait to tell my bosses. The look on their faces will be priceless.

Just like with women, pumping and dumping a company should be done in a way that benefits you in the long-term. You can enjoy the "look on their faces" or you can tell them "with deep regret" that you have to move on and "find yourself," but that you'll be happy to help them transition to someone "with better fit" and collect a contractor fee to train that new person since neither of your bosses is competent enough to do so.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And give them even more of my time? No thanks. I will be resigning in an appropriate way though so that I don't burn any bridges.

[–]I_have_secrets 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Great post. I am actually in the processes of making this transition now. If you don't know your value, then you must create your value. It is never too late to learn some valuable skills that will make you a competitive candidate.

And honestly? Fuck company loyalty. It's all about that paper.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Exactly. No company is loyal to you so why be loyal to them? Always do what's best for yourself first.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

This is true. Many people are held back by the comfort of staying in a company they're familiar with although they don't realise that this need for comfort and routine is what's holding them back.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very well said. I was in that situation. Now I realize that if I didn't take action I'd be losing out on so many opportunities.

[–]Easih 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yep also true for people who are unwilling to move geographically for better job/opportunity.

[–]life036 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Did the same thing recently, doubled my salary by switching companies. Who knew that was even possible? Life is so much better now.

[–]epistemic_humility 3 points4 points  (0 children)

After working my damn ass off for the last two years for nothing I just landed a gig with a 60% raise. Happiness feels so unfamiliar. Cheers man.

[–]whenfoom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"If your man won't give you what you're worth, find one who will." The title reinforces my thesis that the psychologies of the employee and the woman are very similar.

[–]Elodrian 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I start my new job soon and I can't wait to tell my bosses. The look on their faces will be priceless. They'll have to find somebody else to take advantage of and they know it will be really hard to find someone like me who was willing to go above and beyond for their job.

Don't bother with this. Just ghost. If you run into them at a function or something, that's fine, but going back to rub your new job in their faces is unprofessional.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Never said I would rub it in their face. I'm going to hand them a resignation letter like your supposed to. Then enjoy the look on their face.

[–]Fulp_Piction 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Fair play, you've made the right decision and you're getting compensated appropriately for your value.

But tell me what you get from giving two shits about your boss's reaction? It's nothing personal, you had no spine so they fucked you about, they did it to the guy before you and they'll do it to the your replacement.

This isn't a movie script where shitty boss gets told cause the beta bitch did what he should have been doing his whole life anyway. Shake the man's hand, pack up your shit and forget about the place forever.

This is an over reaction, perhaps I'm slipping in and out of anger phase, but fuck me pink if this isn't what annoys me the most about people half swallowing the pill, then posting because look I've just become the alpha but I'm still emotionally invested in shit that doesn't matter. Stop doing stupid shit over pride, revenge or snowflakism. Don't be so fucking beta if you want to be alpha so bad.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I do sense a subtle amount of anger phase but on to your point...

You're exactly right. I couldn't stand up for myself. The reason being my bosses knew I wanted a promotion and I had better make them happy if I were to get it. Do you think if someone butts in front of me in line at a super market I wouldn't say anything? Of course I would. The difference is my bosses had me by the balls. I didn't have much of a choice but to try and make them happy. I had no leverage. They had it all.

When I realized I would never get that promotion (or it would be forever until they finally gave in) I said "fuck it" and started acting towards them how I would anyone else who is being a fucking prick (hence me beginning to stand up to them when they're wrong and calling them out).

How often do you hear bosses giving an employee who doesn't make them happy a promotion? Never. They had all of the leverage and I had no choice but to play along until I realized I could make the better move of changing companies and not have to deal with their bullshit.

And yes, it will be a hard blow to them when I tell them I'm leaving. The amount of things they rely on me for will make their job incredibly difficult. I'm not just saying that, it's factual. I take on a ton of their responsibilities in addition to my own. They'll be scrambling until they find a replacement to screw over (like you said, they'll do it to the next guy).

[–]69Cobalt 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Hop off the high horse buddy, whether you were acting well or not it is always going to feel satisfying to fuck someone over that hurt you. That's how we evolved the emotion of anger,something to overpower pain so you can do what you need to provide eliminate the threat.

Nothing wrong with enjoying the sight of your enemies bleeding as long as you're not controlled by it.

[–]AcrossHallowedGround 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This. To deny your humanity in any way is generally not a good idea. Being aware of these things and allowing yourself to enjoy what you enjoy is a better idea IMO; like you said assuming you're not controlled by it.

A life without emotion is no life at all, but a life ruled by emotion is to be consumed by it.

[–]Nogaz 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Men should treat jobs like women treat men. As soon as you can get something better you go for it

[–]newls 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Funnily enough that was one of the top ever posts on TRP.

[–]Bottled_Void 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I never stop looking for work. If I can get a better deal somewhere else, I'm gone. Don't lie to yourself, as soon as you're surplus to requirements at your company, you'll be gone. The reverse should be true too.

[–]Easih 1 point2 points  (0 children)

shh dont tell everyone the secret.

[–]LaPiluleRouge 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Finally a post about work related TRP, no it's not just sex/relationship!

The only important I remember from my HR class at Uni. Only YOU can plan your career, never put it in your company hands.

And always remember the best position you have for your boss is your current one. If you move up, they now have to train you and your replacement. Easier to hire someone straight to that promotion job.

[–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Finally a post about work related TRP, no it's not just sex/relationship!

Every single post like this has a guy like you saying this shit. There are plenty of job posts.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I got a $3 raise today. I was getting fed up just like you. I felt used. I decided I could go on complaining or do something about it. I did something about it. You'd be surprised what you get when you ask directly sometimes. If you are really worth what you think you are, then you have nothing to lose.

[–]bobjoe177 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I work on a production-based wage, from contract to contract. Some contracts have a smaller per unit payout but lower quality standards, and vice versa. The median wage stays the same, and going from high payout high quality to low payout low quality (with higher production) is always a breeze. Going the other way though, I've always found that people changing from a lower quality expectation greatly overestimate their own value.

[–]bigmikevegas 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm having the same problem right now, I work for a horrible human being who is self made and expects everyone to cater to his ego, my fucking brother-in-law. I've made him quite a chunk of money in the past 4 years, he is an absentee owner and doesn't help for shit, shows up when it's time to pay the bills, grabs his cash and books it. It is my fault for putting myself thru the bullshit, the guy doesn't give a shit about anything, offers 0 help, 0 guidance, and has unrelenting expectations, he is in fact an alpha, probably the only man i've ever looked up to my whole life being without a father, and the guy just contradicts his entire work ethic and life the way he is now. Too much stress, too much bullshit, why am I doing this to myself?

[–]manwhowouldbeking 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why cant you make his business yours.

[–]narazz 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Sadly for me im past 30 and it's really tough for me to find anything past min wage. It's my own fault. i spent the last 3 years trying to put my life back together after bad depression. for a while i took a job were it was nothing but negativity. that's how i like being treated. i realize now even though i get maybe 25 hours it's just something i need to get out of as i been there 6+ years and havnt moved up.

Speaking of that i recently actually got some interviews for other min wage places and lost that shit to teenagers. (i know i can work 10x harder than them too). big thing that comes up is you been there for 6 years havn't moved up. i bullshit that answer but i know from there they think im a deadbet. which i am. im just trying to over come that.

think the only thing that even gets me the interview is my cool looking resume that i learned to make from my recent graphic design classes.(which im not good enough to get a real job in. still working on my skills past community college but no where close to hirable yet. especially with my work history)

anyways i look at my sis who is much younger than me. she has no college education but is probably is 10x more hirable than me because she job hops all the time. you'd think most places would look down on that but it seems they like that better than someone that's just going to stick there a while. for now on after 6 months im going to starlooking for soemthing different. well unless my skills improve to get a real design job. When i was in school my teach was talking about that too. says you're better off getting raises by getting a new job. he probably never had ajob past 2 years. i guess he was right. :)

[–]Easih 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it is indeed true that you are better off getting a new job to get raises; most people aren't willing to do that or make sacrifices to do so; so they are losing alot of money over the years.It is also much easier for a manager to hire someone at the new higher salary then raising a currently employer wage to level of how much they will pay for the new employee.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's never too late. Do what you gotta do.

[–]mej71 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also be sure you aren't overestimating your value at work before you make moves like that. Dunning-Kruger effect is real guys.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What if you live in an area where there is no job that will pay you what you think you're worth?

What if you are truly worthless and you're lucky anyone hired you to begin with?

[–]eltmatt 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Good post! I am always applying for jobs, even when I'm happy in my current position, because it's vital to know what I'm worth at any given time.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

That's very smart. You never know how many better opportunities are out there unless you look.

[–]tuzki -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I read it once like this: "Your perfect job opportunity isn't waiting for you to be between jobs. ALWAYS be looking for that perfect job."

[–]breakingmad1 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Congrats man, but brush up on your spelling and grammar before you start. Confusing piece and peace is a huge signal your "an outside worker".

[–]ImTheBanker 10 points11 points  (3 children)

And you misused "your" in your post telling him to brush up on grammar. I still agree with you, I just got a laugh from that.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It can't be that bad. I've read some posts on here that aren't even readable. I did type all of that on a phone after all.

[–]borsodas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If everyone did this it would be a better world

[–]Scottal 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm in a similar situation and just started looking for a new job. I know my value and I won't be settling for less than I deserve.

Congrats on the new job.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. And good for you. Don't stop looking no matter how long it takes. Don't lose motivation. You're worth more than what you're getting.

[–]Trail_of_Jeers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll probably stick it out another 6 months at my current job. The training isn't great, but it's a new field and I can earn experience.

[–]iwish4zombies 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This entire bullshit of grab-assery is why I'm self-employed. Granted, every customer is a potential boss but is this what you wanted to grow up to be when you were younger?

[–]freddymerckx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same thing happened to me, and I am always looking for an opportunity to jump up to the next level. It's the only way

[–]Osama_bin_Lefty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please give us an update when you quit :)

[–]DogInTheBath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is also important to note is that you must not overestimate your worth. Don't get above your station. Learn what you can from the people working around you and take mental notes of what makes them good at what they do, and take notes of what not to do.

[–]aa223 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Don't you just love it when you work yourself to the point where you are the foundation of the company and they treat you like shit but then you find something better and now you know how lost that company will be without you?

Like the old saying goes: "The best form of revenge is to be more successful than the person who wronged you."

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"The best form of revenge is to be more successful than the person who wronged you."

I love that.

[–]Anarox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The best form of revenge is letting go of the hate and try doing things for yourself.

From the bhagavad gita

“Let a man lift himself by his own self alone, let him not lower himself; for this self alone is the friend of oneself and this self alone is the enemy of oneself. The Bhagavad Gita (B.1490)

[–]slothsenpai 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having to work in retail as a simple CA, I tend to be quite proficient with my job (thanks to the gym) so they've given me the main responsibilities of dealing with the waste (it's a big deal in my store). Because I work faster each month, they decide to give me more tasks, more responsibilities and set out bullshit high expectations where I always stay an hour behind everyday unpaid (I work late evening mind you) all so that the people at the top can pocket some extra bonuses from higher profits.

I've confronted my managers a few times that I'm unhappy with this, that I don't give a shit about progressing at this store (I wanna fucking leave eventually) but I just stick to being a normal team player so that they'll do me favours if I ever need one at some point in the future (one of them actually covered my shift so I could fuck this girl on a Tinder date).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad to see a business post like this around. One thing you should consider is negotiating. I've found that when I negotiate for a higher price I'm more greatly valued and respected by my peers, and that typically what you're offered is not your value.

There's almost a blue pill about corporate America, which is "Work hard, stay late, devote yourself and my boy you'll be movin' up!" And of course that is complete bullshit.

[–]TheBeardedMarxist 0 points1 point  (2 children)

So what kind of job did you get? Did you go from blue collar work at 35k to white collar work paying 70k? I'm curious to how you did this. I'm in a similar blue collar boat.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I was in high 20 thousands and doubled that.

[–]TheBeardedMarxist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well that's awesome. What kind of job did you get? I'm in a production job and though it is decent money I feel I'm being taken advantage of and hit a ceiling. I'm also just tired of it.

[–]watersign 0 points1 point  (0 children)

being articulate = winning

[–]AquanautST 0 points1 point  (0 children)

IF we lived in a meritocracy maybe, but to feel entitled to a promotion based on merit is sadly blue pill, I learned this the hard way. Looking to be "chosen"is blue pill, choose yourself . And like Miike C Author of Gorilla Mindset said on his last YT video, why quit make them fire you. Exploit the F out of them in the process!!!

[–]OrionSC2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

love stories like this. good job mate!

[–]Sephar 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Heya; could you give me some context on your skillset and what line of work you're in? I'd be interested to know for perspective.

[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Don't want to give out anymore info. Too many people have been doxed.

[–]rupturedprostate 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Honest question: Did you work at a hotel?

[–]ComplementaryColour 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure overpreformer vs underpreformer and promotion could be true. But this doesnt mean that anyone should slack more at work. You as a man should allways strive towards making the best you can. Overpreform as fuck!!! And dont expect anything less from your enviroment!!! Be sure to lead your coworkers in to overpreform aswell. This is what makes a true leader of men.

And if your not noticed just keep moving. Stay at that place for a year and go on to add value to the next place. Just make sure the employer doesnt take it for granted.

Dont play this game. Its decreasing your honor and respect further. Respect is your social currency in being a valuble man! Not shady games through performance quality...

But for you op, a simpel: well done!

[–]yummyluckycharms 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People asking for more info are missing the point - who cares where he lives and what he does. The key takeaway is that he wanted to change his life for the better and took steps to make it happen by seeing through the bs that his current employers were giving him

[–]ECoast_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To everyone out there, heed my advice.

The key to this is to have a BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement). Look it up.

I had the opposite result where I wasn't exactly head hunted but a colleague was leaving business IOIs. My job was okay, but I felt I wanted more. So after meeting with the alternative, who offered me a a 30% salary raise, I went back to my employer and laid it out, and basically asked, 'why should I stay here?'

My employer then exceeded that offer to keep me.

Men of the corporate world, if you're doing this, make sure you have leverage, and do not be afraid to use it. Statistics show men are much better able at negotiating their own salaries than women. Be one of those men.

[–]SupALupRT 0 points1 point  (1 child)

great example: recently my company created new positions with substantially higher pay. I applied but had knew I was probably hosed cuz i habitually clock in 1-5 minutes late or (used to). but a fellow coworker who has been there 20+ years and one of the best workers Ive met in any jib got fucked over. Companies dont promote based on merit but on whats best for them. Companies are as redpill as we are. Dont break your back for a place if you dont see rewards quickly and you see any instance of either inept / blatantly non merit rewarding atmosphere and find a new place.

[–]Newbosterone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you want a raise, you don't ask for a raise. You explain why you're worth a raise.

If you want a job, you don't say why you want the job, you explain how you'll benefit the company.

[–]adidas558492 0 points1 point  (0 children)

may i ask, what hiring agency did you use?

it seems like i need to use a similar service to get out of my current job and onto something better

[–]Air4ce1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now I run into this regularly. I've been passed up for promotion in three separate organizations because I was the best. My question is, how do I dumb it down a bit, but still have the mentality of doing my best?

[–]RedDeadlift 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's great to see info on employment in here. I went through something similar a year ago. Let's just say I had "oneitis" for my precious employer and was afraid to venture out. I did the same thing and while I don't make double, I make close to it.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–]TheDarkTriad[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No one in this thread takes you seriously. How does it feel to know that?

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