Blue Pill ExampleWoman thinks her guy friend is being an 'asshole' because he's no longer doing nice things for her after she rejected him. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by cassandrita

Link: https://archive.is/DIpeh

I think it's partly this guy's fault for being a doormat. A list of all the things he did for her:

He would always offer a helping hand, or would listen. We'd have conversations on skype, and he'd always be supportive and offer friendly advice. At work, he was really flexible with his shifts and would always rearrange to cover mine. For example, if I couldn't make a shift on a certain day, and would prefer another day, he would always gladly swap with me. He was always friendly about it. When I was moving apartments a couple months ago, he helped me move my stuff. When I didn't have my car for about two weeks, he drove me to work and home every day. He was an incredibly good friend and I was really thankful to have someone like him around.

And he was also incredibly emotionally supportive, whenever I'd talk about my issues with friends or family, he'd listen. I've had depression and anxiety in the past, I take meds for it, and it comes back every now and again. I have a lot of personal worries, fears and issues, and he's always ready to listen and be supportive.

He asks her out and of course she says no. Surprisingly he doesn't just become an orbiter and keep doing nice things for her, instead he moves on which annoys her:

Then over the next few days I noticed things were a bit different. He would still talk to me, chit chat occasionally, smile, say Hi. But he wasn't as receptive to conversations with me any more. On skype when we'd talk, he'd take longer to respond, and seems always uninterested and giving one word responses. With work, he's no longer swapping any shifts with me. He says he can't manage the time, and he's also on a busy work and life schedule that he can't always move things around.

I'm moving apartments again in a months time, and I asked if he'd be ready to help me move again like last time, he said probably not and that he's too busy.

He's not giving her undivided attention and doing her favors all the time so what's her reaction?

Now suddenly, its almost like he's an asshole.

Did I make friends with a "nice guy"? Was he really just an asshole all along only pretending to be nice to get in my pants?

Lesson: So if a guy doesn't give you undivided attention and time, he's an asshole.

Best comment:

Yeah, you knew him for 8 months OP. He was never really your "friend" as he viewed you as a potential love interest. You shut him now, now he's protecting himself by creating distance and finding other girls to prioritize for dating.

You are not entitled to preferential treatment. You are not dating him. You are not sleeping with him. He's just a dude and now he has other priorities. You don't get the benefit of boyfriend-like behavior from someone you will only accept platonic friendship with.

So, no he isn't an asshole. He's just a dude with healthy boundaries.

[–]BaconEggsAndSleaze 576 points576 points [recovered]

Her entitlement is absurd.

Typical case of victim mentality; IS HE ONE OF THOSE "NICE GUY"?

Here is the current top comment, for good reason:

It sounds like he was a good friend to you. What kinds of things did you do for him? Did you return all of those favors? Maybe, now that you've outright rejected him, he's realized that he can't afford to be giving so much of himself away anymore. Unless your friendship is balanced, it's not really a friendship. Real friends don't just take, they give too. Remember that the next time you think someone is "one of your best friends".

[–]Cypher211 254 points255 points  (33 children)

It's a fucking great comment. I was extremely pleasantly surprised to see it had been up voted to the top.

[–]EquestrianWrangler26 92 points93 points  (12 children)

It seems feminists pushed the envelope too far and the tide is now turning.

[–][deleted] 91 points92 points  (7 children)

The thing is men are slow to react as a group. But when they do it can be extreme and pick up momentum very quickly. You can poke the bear for hours, but when he finally wakes up you are fucked.

[–]choomguy 9 points10 points  (4 children)

That's because men aren't a group. Not in the sense that we care about other men's welfare, how well off they are, how much pussy they get etc. you may be fortunate enough to have a few buds that have your back in some regard, but that's about it. The lessons here are part of an individual journey. Only the weak can rise up as a group. That's all you see today.

The bear analogy is a good one, but we as men are all "the bear", individually, not collectively.

[–]BlackHeart89 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I actually see shit like this a lot in real life. Its mostly on redditt that I see the shitty advice and comments.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It's typical for NG's to bottle up their emotions. As a culture it's the same thing happening, just en masse. Things aren't going to be pretty when the collective NG lid pops.

[–]BattleDrillOneAlpha 84 points85 points  (19 children)

I was extremely pleasantly surprised to see it had been up voted to the top

Honestly, it is because a lot of guys that actually read Relationships are, for the most part, the types of dudes that this describes. They pine over a girl for an extended period of time and think that all of their good deeds and emotional talks will get her to like them. They resonate with what the guy did and his line of thinking.

[–]choicemeats 61 points61 points [recovered]

Another case of normal treatment turning into being treated horribly because they were recipients of preferential treatment for so long.

What he did is literally how i talk to everyone.

[–][deleted] 101 points102 points  (0 children)

When preferential treatment is all you know, normal treatment feels like "oppression"

[–]Di-onysos 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Another case of normal treatment turning into being treated horribly because they were recipients of preferential treatment for so long.

Amen. Be altruistic for a while and your beneficiaries start taking it for granted. Withdraw your help and you're suddenly a horrible person.

[–]Modredpillschool 20 points21 points  (2 children)

Not just "is he one of those nice guys!?"

but rather:

Was he really just an asshole all along only pretending to be nice to get in my pants?

In a woman's world, current circumstances and emotions define objective reality. If he's not nice now, then he must have always been an asshole. He was always this way, she just didn't see it.

Notice women talk like this all the time. Especially after breakups.

"He was always an asshole, I just didn't see it."

Sure, toots, that's why you fucked him for three years.

[–]rpdoomed 700 points700 points [recovered]

I feel so used, like I can't even say "no" to a date without a guy completely turning on me, and now I've lost what I thought was a really good friend.

That sentence was amazing to read. Her hamster is in such a fucking sprint that I fear the wheel's speed will open a rift to another dimension. This guy helps this girl for 8 months, driving her to and from work, helping her move, and covering her shifts. She turns him down, and he moves on. All of a sudden, she feels used. Yes, used. All that shit he did for you over 8 months was using you.

God damn, I have to make fun of it, because I can't form any rationale as to how she came to that conclusion

[–]JimHarding 249 points250 points  (18 children)

8 months of him doing one way favors for her. He finally gets the balls to ask her out and she says no, he's smart and moves on. She probably actually does feel used because in her mind she had to associate with and hang out with a guy that probably doesn't even register as more than an errand boy. When errand boy stops doing errands for seemingly no reason, because you certainly don't go on dates with errand boys, she gets frustrated.

[–]1Snivellious 165 points166 points  (12 children)

Her reaction is actually pretty understandable - she had the most useful friend imaginable for eight months, and now she doesn't. It's only "entitled" once you view the guy as a person rather than a convenience, and she doesn't.

[–]Senior Contributorveggie_girl 97 points98 points  (11 children)

He should bill her for all of his time. If she feels used already, might as well give her a reason to feel that way.

It's a golden rule: nothing makes people appreciate you like charging them money for your time. I'll do something pro bono for someone and they will sometimes thank me. But when I charge someone thousands of dollars? They always thank me, because they feel the value.

Pro Life Tip: If you do something for someone for free in your personal time, be sure to let them know ahead of time that you normally charge x-amount of dollars for the service but you're doing this for them as a favor. Makes them much more appreciative, even if you don't plan to cash in on that favor, lets them know your time is valuable.

Edit: Clarification that the tip at the bottom is not for businesses/customers, but rather personal friends, etc.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (7 children)

I run an internet marketing company, and "free consulting" is something that always has to be in the back of my mind. Giving away something is very, very, very dicey.

To the average person, if you tell them how much it usually costs and then you do it for free they don't appreciate it the way you're describing. It cost them nothing. I would only do this if we're completely on the same page or I trust them. (if they're currently a client - you're good here).

What's better is to charge a cut-rate (or do something smaller) and agree on what the normal rates are thereafter. Then you've got the foot in the door, and they understand that you can give them stuff for money so What'sTheBigDeal.

[–]Senior Contributorveggie_girl 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Totally agree. I'd even go out and say that I will never give deals to new customers unless I absolutely have to. Which, I have a certain quota of charity work I do have to fulfill yearly so that happens regularly enough, but it's out of necessity. Rewarding loyal clients is always a good idea however.

I was talking more along the lines of when you do things for personal friends and acquaintances who aren't potential clients/customers. Added in your personal time above to clarify.

[–]_CHURDT_ 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Totally. I run a small recording studio business and I charge a pretty standard rate. The only times I offer my services for free are if it's a very small thing (like a slight fix to the mix of a song) for a regular client or if I know someone can't afford studio time but I want to record a song of theirs just because I like the song. On several occasions, this has also helped some of those artists get paying gigs and they then returned to do more work, for which they paid me. It's definitely important to not make a habit of working for free, but in the right situation, it can be beneficial.

[–]1Snivellious 3 points4 points  (2 children)

This is fantastic life advice, thank you.

The simplest argument I've seen for the value of behavioral economics is "you can sell more units by raising your prices". In a world of rational decision makers and perfect information, that's an absurd result. In reality, it works wonders, and increasing the theoretical value of a service trips the same levels - hence the phenomenon of always-on-sale products. "I would have charged X" follows the same rules.

This makes me more inclined to try to focus the favors I do on my area of expertise. If I help you move I can demand a six pack, but I can't say "this is worth $X00" because I'm not a qualified mover. If I do would-be-professional work, I can convincingly state it's value.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 51 points52 points  (2 children)

Yeah, she got confused alright. She thought he was a platonic beta orbiter, turns out he was a non-platonic beta orbiter. Easy mistake to make when a guy lacks balls. Entitled bitch.

[–]tekneexx 9 points10 points  (0 children)

He presented himself as errand boy. Calling her a bitch is silly. Good for him that he wised up a little.

[–]Zerwas 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'd like to chime in that she probably has not encountered this kind of behavior previously (since it is pretty rare), and does not know how to react.

This does not excuse her self-centered rationalization but is is an explanation. I had a similar experience with a girl but only knew her for about one month due to same college-courses.

I really liked reading the comments to this btw. Made me feel warm and comfy.

[–]ChairBorneMGTOW 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Her tool broke and doesn't work anymore, so she got mad at it.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 135 points136 points  (5 children)

I feel so used, like I can't even say "no" to a date without a guy completely turning on me

Withdrawing priveleges is "turning on" someone??? holy crap these entitled women today...

No bitch... turning on you is lying to all your friends, calling the police on you, assaulting you, destroying your life and your possessions, and then making out to be the victim. Should know this, it's how women behave when a relationship ends or their feelz are hurt by rejection.

[–]Hoodwink 82 points82 points [recovered]

It's protecting her self conception. She doesn't want to be honest about her noticing (the girl always notices the guy is into her), leading the guy on, and gathering favors. She's protecting her idea of herself by blaming the guy.

[–]FiveLions 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is the only answer. I used to think it was women would 'lie' to themselves...but they really don't...It's other people's perception of them they are trying to preserve, no their own integrity.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yea, women in these situations know. It's their job to know. Women treat men like men treat a job/career.

[–]rpdoomed 24 points24 points [recovered]

I think that the hamster had already it made it through the rift and into the other dimension by the time she wrote that.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (0 children)

The hamster now transcends time, and can appear to rationalize any entitlement: past, present, and future. In any location, any universe.

[–]marty2k 51 points52 points  (2 children)

I wonder how much of a "friend" she was to him. I wonder if she would have switched shifts for him. I wonder if she would have helped him move. I wonder if she would just listen to him without wanting anything if he was depressed. I bet she couldn't even name some really basic questions about his interests, dreams, or anything beyond her uses for him.

[–]throwaway-aa2 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Whoa whoa. As long as he does things for ME, we're friends! All those times I talked about my problems... I mean really that was conversation! If anything I was more interesting and just had more to talk about, and he was always quiet and listening but... that's just because I always had more to say! That's not my fault! And I did PLENTY! I called him, I talked to him... It's not my fault he wanted more from me like some creep!

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 120 points121 points  (6 children)

If you give a man something, he feels like he owes you. If you give a woman something, she feels like you owe her.

Never give a woman anything without telling her what you expect in return.

[–]throwaway-aa2 39 points40 points  (5 children)

Never give a woman anything without telling her what you expect in return.

Holy shit. You just codified something in the back of my mind... an experience, into a perfect statement.

I gave a woman my time, sacrificed my path in life, sacrificed my time, did things I said I wouldn't do, just to stay together and spend more time together. When it came time for her to make a similar choice to sacrifice what she wanted to be with me... she wouldn't even give it a SHOT. She didn't even CONSIDER IT.

[–]PlanB_pedofile 14 points15 points  (1 child)

This is true with all female friendships. Women live in the now. All that stuff you did for them in the past means nothing. There isn't a bank account of loyalty. There's no savings of favors. It's a running faucet that goes right into the drain and once the faucet is off, it's over.

Expect zero return on your investment.

[–]gqtrees 35 points36 points  (3 children)

lolll so true. If the guy continues to do stuff and help like that, then she will consider him clingy or creepy after he has been turned down.

For anyone new to this shit, if you want to know the right answer or the right thing to do when you get turned down. Cut the contact, move on with your life.

Girls just don't understand when a guy is doing all of these things prior to expressing his feelings, he is going through the age old process of wooing the opposite sex. Showing he can provide and be there for her. Which in turn if he is lucky leads to sex, relationship all that jazz. Girls assume guys just do this for the fun of it or some shit.

[–][deleted] 61 points62 points  (1 child)

Dont forget "without a guy completely turning on me". Him not doing everything for her anymore suddenly became he is now against her.

Dat entitlement.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Her world has been rocked though...

One guy stopped being a Time Ho. Now she's worried all her other Time Ho's are going to get wise and stop doing shit for her. Just imagine how a woman would feel if all her beta orbiters bailed on her at the same time.

[–]Endorsed Contributorthelandofdreams 25 points26 points  (1 child)

You have to realize that in her mind, her mere presence is a gift and a favor. She's had this idea reinforced for her her whole life by supplicants and sycophants.

[–]1Snivellious 43 points44 points  (0 children)

"Turning on" now means "merely being a polite friend, not a slave". If he's called her a worthless cunt and cut ties, she'd have a point. Instead, he devotes more of his resources to potential romantic partners than to random women who abuse his friendship for their convenience.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Briffaults law. She doesn't care or recognize any past benefits. Only present and future benefits. That's all it was ever about. There is no male friend to a woman.

[–]jkeegan123 8 points9 points  (0 children)

the worst part is... some guy is going to come along, Fuck her like he owns her and treat here like DOG SHIT, she's going to turn into this doormat and do everything she can to get her new abusive "boyfriend" to appreciate her, and she'll still complain about the ASSHOLE that stopped being nice when she rejected him.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Just imagine if he had sex with her and she regretted it...

[–]rossiFan 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I fear the wheel's speed will open a rift to another dimension.

See, this is why I fucking love this sub.

[–]thewrightstuff88 17 points18 points  (3 children)

I can't form any rationale as to how she came to that conclusion

You can't rationalize it because you are a man. Any man will never truly be able to get 100% of the rationale of a woman's decisions because it is so complex however, the underlying theme is that it is selfish thoughts. A woman thinks solely for herself. She wants to put herself in the best position. If a man wants to be helpful and allow her to make her life that much easier, she will let him. Men will also do this as well however to a much lesser degree because we actually have a conscious and some of us may be gratuitous enough to let the guy know to sack up.

Her orbiter ex-friend is a huge beta because he never stated his intentions from the get go. Had he been rejected he could've just nexted her and moved on but he wasted 8 months of his own time THINKING that it would cause her to at the very least be somewhat interested in him on a non-platonic level however he made the deadly mistake of assuming that his thought process is in line with a woman's.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 57 points58 points  (1 child)

The explanation is actually kind of basic. Maybe it even warrants a post:

Women do not make friends. Everybody in the world is either a source of validation (includes being a useful tool to her) or a source of entertainment.

Even her female "friends" are just social nodes. They give her drama, entertainment, they validate her, and when the prettiest one isn't there, she and all of the other girls badmouth her. And when the ugliest one isn't here, she and all of the other girls badmouth her instead. These girls don't take bullets for each other. They validate and entertain each other. They like each other's facebook photos and go out clubbing together and secretly hate it if a hot guy picks their friend instead of them.

Her male "friends" are the same way. A source of entertainment or a source of validation. She knows you can fuck guys, she knows guys want to fuck, and she knows that any man who helps her move boxes is into her. But she and her male "friend" had an unspoken understanding that while he was into her, he'd shut up about it and be a useful tool to her, thereby validating her. This was a covert contract on her part. She thought that if she gave him time and attention but only minimally led him on, things would stay the same and he'd keep being useful to her, without broaching the romance thing since she never gave a strong signal. And it's how she views every single guy she's not fucking in her mind. A source of validation or a source of entertainment.

It's not the guy who was a shitty friend by secretly wanting sex/relation. It's the girl who's always a shitty friend because girls don't make friends. Girls treat every guy as either a guy they're fucking or a guy they're trying to avoid fucking (Hell, they think every man is a potential rapist.) It's girls who don't differentiate between friends and potential lovers.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Men will also do this as well however to a much lesser degree

So many things taught here go by this but is unecessary to state because male nature is obvious, not covered with smoke and mirrors, shrouded in darkness with indoctrination and shaming, and humans lack the instinctive mechanisms (read: women are wonderful & whiteknight) that hamster away his behavior.

[–]proROKexpat 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I'd of fucked off a lot sooner then that.

I have a rule

If by the 3rd date no sex...then I dump it.

Dated a girl, 3rd date no sex I said fuck it lets give it one more go. She turned down my advances. I finished up the date the next day I told her I was no longer interested in seeing her anymore.

[–]NineInchPitchfork 123 points124 points  (6 children)

I (almost) cannot believe that she had the audacity to ask him to help her move (for what would be the second time) AFTER she rejected him.

It's gratifying to see that she is getting no support (from either men or women) on relationships for her narcissism.

[–]pmMeYourBoxOfCables 14 points15 points  (5 children)

This is the part of the story that had me wondering if this was a joke. Because certainly no one could be this delusional.

[–]hrm0894 24 points25 points  (2 children)

My ex gf broke up with me and a month later she contacted me asking why I didn't wish her a happy birthday.

Fucking mind-boggling, I know.

[–]Pantek51 8 points9 points  (1 child)

What??? You didn't got her a gift? But it's her birthday!

[–]Nebulose11 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You OWE her for all the times she had to put up with you...

[–]dennislang 99 points100 points  (11 children)

The top responses to that thread are incredibly... reasonable.

Is this a shift in r/relationships hivemind or is this an issue so clear cut even they got it right? Either way, I'm pleasantly surprised.

[–]eREKTi0n 52 points53 points  (4 children)

I suspected it simply hasn't been brigaded yet. If it keeps up with a consistent level of reasonableness, the thread will probably get locked down.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children)

That's literally what they do. I think they do that a lot when they find pro-female shit so no reasonable shit can come in.

[–]eREKTi0n 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Haven't you noticed a ton more comment graveyards lately? There really is no more contrast in perspective anymore.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

no they don't even hide it, if you think there's a ridiculous fucking opinion, the thread is locked. Yes I've noticed, it's a joke. Pure fucking joke.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Relationships can be reasonable when the case is pretty unambiguous. In this case here, we have a clearly self-centered cunt and an inoffensive nice guy who just revoked her "prospective girlfriend"-privileges without much drama.

Last week there was a case of a cheater saying that her husband walked in on her and that he was now giving her the silent treatment, and they didn't gang up on him but on her. A few weeks ago there was also the case of the rape victim who set her bf on a sexual diet for a year where everyone told her that he should have left long ago.

Disregarding which gender is more likely to get a slap on the wrist, relationships is a pretty bluepill place - but this also means that when a case is ultra-obviously fishy, they'll side with the person taken advantage of.

[–]Reddthrown 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That sub is populated by "nice guys". Of course they'll relate and defend Greg.

[–]chubby_prince 323 points323 points [recovered]

A guy I know, Greg, met me about 8 months ago.

Wow, transparently self-centered from the very first sentence. Any normal person would phrase it "I met Greg about 8 months ago" or something similar.

[–]deville05 60 points61 points  (1 child)

Excellent observation. N its great that 99% of the responses say that op is self-centered. I wish this thread was likr a real converation in a room

[–]Upvote_To_The_Left 111 points112 points  (0 children)

Good point, its subtle very speaks volumes.

[–]pmMeYourBoxOfCables 20 points21 points  (0 children)

That's a great observation. I just glossed over that.

[–]FloatyFloat 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I think it's the opposite. The focus of the sentence tends to be on the subject.

Consider these 2 Q&As:

Q: When did you meet Greg? A: I met him yesterday. <--- focus on you/I

Q: When did Greg meet you? A: Greg met me yesterday. <--- focus on Greg/Greg

It's either her speech idiosyncrasy, or she's focused on Greg. In this context, I find it more likely that a self-centered person like would focus on Greg. Self-centered people have the two beliefs "I'm the victim" and "Everyone else is at fault." This post is about how everyone else (Greg) is at fault. Since she is complaining about how bad Greg is, she wouldn't insert herself as the focus.

[–]MyPaynis 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Anyone else think this story is bullshit trolling? It's just too perfect. I don't believe it. This is the only post that OP has ever made and I'm guessing they made up the story to start a shitstorm. It worked since so many people are commenting and arguing about it.

[–]throwaway-aa2 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I mean there have been similar stories before... how long have you been around? A lot of women are like this dude.. the thing is, is that you don't so often get stories from the horses mouth that incriminate themselves so bad.

[–]RideTheWingsOfDeath 61 points61 points [recovered]

The slave escaped and now the princess has to wipe her own ass. Oh the humanity.

[–]EvrythingISayIsRight 8 points9 points  (0 children)

And to top it all off she is the victim. Sheesh, every friend she makes is just a 'nice guy' secretly trying to fuck her. They even go as far as the 'long con', where they'll pretend to be nice to her for months while she leads them on.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 320 points321 points  (91 children)

Women need to take note:

If a guy helps a girl move, he wants to fuck her. Period. Hands down. No exceptions.

Helping somebody move is the most annoying, long, tedious, aggravating, stupid shit on the planet. When bros help me move or vice versa, everyone is well compensated with food and beer. Because we all understand that moving sucks ass. It takes a real friend to help you move.

Most women don't lift furniture at awkward angles up three flights of stairs to get to an overpriced apartment, so they don't understand. They think their happy dopey guy friends just move shit because they're all friends with her. Not that she would ever carry beds and couches for them. The best she might do is actually bother to empty her drawers before asking the guys to carry her dresser upstairs.

[–][deleted] 68 points69 points  (14 children)

Why the fuck don't girls ever have pizza and beer when they need help moving? It's fucking bro code that ladies know

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 103 points104 points  (6 children)

They're happy to let you buy pizza and beer and eat it at their house after you help them move. What are you talking about?

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (5 children)

if your in my contact list I will help you move if I am free (guy or girl). But I expect the same as I give. i give food, booze, or gas money. i must be some terrible nice guy asshole

[–]finitely_eclectic 17 points18 points  (3 children)

everyone guy I have ever helped moved has gone something like this:

"hey bro, I need help moving in a few weeks, can you help? i'll have beer and meat during/after"

why is this so hard for women to understand?

[–]enkae7317 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Shit, we hired total strangers. As in, we paid them to help us move. At the end of the day we still cooked a giant fucking meal for them.

Women, I swear.

[–]3NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Because the're born and raised in a world where people things for them because they're pretty and/or have a vagina

[–]sundaybrunch11 33 points34 points  (1 child)

from /u/Whisper If you give a man something, he feels like he owes you. If you give a woman something, she feels like you owe her.

[–]dwcmwa 3 points4 points  (0 children)

She feels like you're not giving enough.

[–]2niczar 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I helped a really good female friend move. She had wine, cheese, ham and pies. When I help her with her computer problems, she always returns the favor one way or the other, usually expending more effort than I did. She also invites me to parties and introduces me to her single friends.

She's a real friend, a "bro" you'd call her.

Thing is, I've been pathetically friendzoned on occasions when I was younger, and one thing was clear: they never returned the favor, and in particular never introduced me to their single friends. (So I cut them off, faster and faster as I understood what went on better).

When feminist cunts complain about friendzoned nice guys feeling entitled, they're projecting as usual. They feel much more entitled to their orbiters' service than the betas feel to sex with them. The betas are usually ashamed of their desire, whereas those cunts are proudly using them.

[–]Captain_Australia 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Even when we had paid paid movers moving our shit for us, my mum would always end up spending ~$100 on beer and subway for the movers.

[–]1Snivellious 31 points32 points  (0 children)

This nails it. Even when I ask my best friends to help me move, I get them dinner and booze (I think a case of beer or a very nice six pack is the going rate for a day of moving?)

It's an infinitely tiresome job that only serves one person's interests. It deserves to be compensated, especially by someone (a woman) who won't ever offer you equal help when you move.

[–]skoobled 21 points22 points  (0 children)

They know this, though: it's cognitive dissonance and extremely disingenuous. The butthurt when they lose their little servants, though, that's unforgivable

[–]myrpaccount 12 points12 points [recovered]

My ex wife actually asked me to help load the truck she was taking to the guy she met online in another state. She was actually surprised that I turned her down. I couldn't believe she wanted me to help her take half of the shit I bought away from me.

[–]skeetch_a_leak 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I used to get asked to help people move about once a month a couple years ago. My response every time was, "You're a grown ass [wo]man. Hire movers."

I said it enough that the last time I got asked, someone else answered for me.

[–]1kick6 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Finally had to resort to this. How in the fuck I became "the guy with the truck" in texas is a mystery for the ages.

[–]Crotch_Snorkel 109 points110 points  (21 children)

I don't help women move anymore unless they are already fucking me. Just a couple of months ago, I met a HB8 on tinder with all sorts of red flags. I really wanted to bang her, so I kept ignoring the flags and carried on. She asked if I could help her move out of her ex husbands house and into her new house (1st red flag, shes only 24 and divorced), once I showed up to the house there were 2 other chads there helping her move... So I said "Looks like you got this covered" and noped the fuck out of there.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 125 points126 points  (7 children)

You see: tinder babe that just happens to need to move house before you can start fucking her.

The reality: she goes on tinder to get guys to help her move house. And it works.

[–]Brave_Horatius 28 points29 points  (6 children)

Pretty sure there was ab article posted a while back where a journo did exactly this to see if it'd work.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 43 points44 points  (4 children)

... article posted a while back where a journo did exactly this to see if it'd work.

There was, and that version was "help me shovel snow, no strings attached". She still had men offering to help. She considers using the term "no strings attached" on a Tinder listing to be making her terms "crystal clear".

The subtext that this was listed on Tinder was hamstered away as not relevent. The subtext that women looking to hookup always say they're not looking to hookup was hamstered away. The subtext of the phrase "no strings attached" meaning sex but in this case meaning no sex was hamstered away. The fact that this was on valentine's day and lonely men will do anything for female company was hamstered away.

It worked well for her on V Day.

Later, she tries it again with less success... and I kid you not, she writes this gem: "Heartbroken, with more snow on the way and a renewed sense of urgency, I started swiping right with abandon. "

Yes gentlemen, she is heartbroken that strangers will not shovel her drive for free. After just one free shovelling of her drive, she is so entitled that subsequent lack of free offers is heartbreaking to her.

She eventually finds someone to do it, and she ends the article with "But so long as he kept digging, at least it wasn’t a total waste of my time."


[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Briffaults Law is a mean bitch when the endless supply of men cease

[–]Endorsed ContributorRed_August 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Generally, this is why women are often greater supporters of hand-in-hand helping communities or other hippie ideas which are not necessarily inherently bad in terms of fostering a greater community but the real bottom line is that women cannot exist without men and they would in these schemes always be the net receivers of services, and men, the net providers of services in the long run. Community work-share or what-not is simply a structure that provides for a greater volume of availability for services for the ill, aged, and ultimately, and they subconsciously know it, ...women.

[–]Philhelm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The one I remember like that was this woman who had guys come over to shovel snow from her car. Pathetic.

[–]generic_name 54 points54 points [recovered]

She asked if I could help her move out of her ex husbands house and into her new house (1st red flag, shes only 24 and divorced),

Bro that's not a red flag. That's like a highway barricade with giant flashing lights on top telling you there's a cliff up ahead.

[–][deleted] 99 points99 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Crotch_Snorkel 12 points13 points  (5 children)

This wasn't the first time meeting her. We had hung out all week leading up... but then when I showed up I was like... who the fuck are these guys?

[–]tehwankingwalruses 31 points32 points  (4 children)

All week and you hadn't fucked her? Then you were going to help her move? Bruh...

[–]sundaybrunch11 29 points30 points  (0 children)

sucky sucky before lifty lifty

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If anyone helps ANYONE move and the person asking for help doesn't offer anything in return; not even a 12 pack, they're a fucking scumbag. Moving sucks!

[–]gqtrees 19 points20 points  (15 children)

only three types of women i would offer to help move EVER without having any secret motive. My mom, My sister, and any female who is family and close to our family.

[–]mrp3anut 21 points22 points  (4 children)

Even then there is an expectation of some sort of "thank you". While with mom/sis/other family it is definitely not sex my mother never asks me to come over and fix something at her house, help her move, mow her yard etc without providing a home cooked meal or something similar. Also, i do enjoy spending time with my mother so it isnt a direct transaction but rather she needs help, wants to spend time with me, and genuinely cares about me and wants me to be happy so she does nice shit for me rather than just expecting me to bow before her all the time because female.

[–]through_a_ways 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Even then there is an expectation of some sort of "thank you".

When children grow up, they're obligated to thank their parents, not vice versa.

[–]Philhelm 56 points57 points  (8 children)

Screw that. My mom better suck my dick if she wants help.

[–]doritoesNcoffee 39 points40 points  (5 children)

Bruh i think you've taken one too many of dem red pills

[–]colinKaepernicksHat 22 points23 points  (3 children)

It's the most alpha thing you can do. You cuck your father and become the man of the house. If his old ass tries to start shit then beat his ass to get your dick liked. 2015 and still on the redpill? Take the black pill.

[–]A419a 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Dude, don't take the infrared pill; stick to the red ones.

[–]SteelChicken 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No way. When mom wants to move, I just give some money for the movers. Too old for that shit.

[–]2niczar 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If a guy helps a girl move, he wants to fuck her. Period. Hands down. No exceptions.

And guys need to take note. If you want to fuck a girl and haven't yet, helping her move is the best way to make sure you never will.

[–]beginner_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If a guy helps a girl move, he wants to fuck her. Period. Hands down. No exceptions.

Had to laugh at that. I shared my first rental apartment with a female friend. Anyway all I had to do was do buy some furniture online. Her ex owned a truck and they went to pick up all the stuff and he carried all the stuff up to the 3rd floor. No elevator. He was actually a very fit, above average strong guy.

He would visit often, she had her share of fun and now they are back together.

[–]throwaway-aa2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Women need to take note:

They don't need to note shit. I've had this theory for a while but I think a woman's complete obliviousness past herself is some sort of evolutionary mechanism. This was explained by someone in the manosphere but the idea that if a man died, a woman had to move on.

Think about it... what downside is there of being completely oblivious in this case? You get tons of men to help you, and then push the blame on them when it eventually surfaces... then you just keep doing it to more men and you always have a stable of men on hand to help you. What's the downside for her? In this society a man can't attack you or extract any kind of revenge. The only time she gets a taste of her own medicine is if a Chad gives her tingles, fucks her and dismisses her moves for commitment, and then it reverses: "I thought you liked me & wanted to possibly commit, but you just wanted me for sex?" the same way she goes to the beta "I thought we were friends but you just wanted me for sex"?

If you were a woman and had ZERO moral compass, this is what you'd do. This is what I would do. Either feign ignorance, or not give a fuck about educating myself so that I'm not ignorant.

[–]temerarious 11 points12 points  (7 children)

If a guy helps a girl move, he wants to fuck her. Period. Hands down. No exceptions.

Not true. This sub treats interactions between the genders way too black and white. There are a lot of grey areas.

There's a ham planet I work with who I would never hook up with, but I joke around with her and enjoy her company generally. I'd help her move if she asked. She'd also be the type to bring pizza and beer. I'd never help a woman who had a sense of entitlement.

There are plenty of girls I've known over the years with the same dynamic.

[–]rowlanry 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Haven't seen the term Ham Planet used since FPH went down. Brought back some good times on that sub. Thank you.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 32 points33 points  (1 child)

If a guy other than temerarious helps a girl other than that ham planet temerarious knows move, he wants to fuck her. Period. Hands down. No exceptions.

Fair enough. I fixed everything. Thanks.

[–]1edwardhwhite 51 points52 points  (2 children)

Last night I was caught out by "Mary" a woman who flirts with me and then wants me to help her with her legal case because it is "nice" and because that's what "friends" do. Rather than continue to avoid her I just told it like it is: we are not friends, this is the 4th time we've met, it would be stupid of you to half-ass your way through this with a friend doing any legal work, I get paid to do this, would you give me $10k worth of investment services? and she makes well north of 6 figures so she can afford a lawyer.

The look on her drunk-ass face! The Russian guy who could barely speak English who was trying to pick her up was very confused. He wanted in her pants and there I was saying "no thanks."

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would have given you a high five and paid the next drink for you.

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points  (4 children)

Not once does she talk about what she offers to him, other than of course denying him a date or sexual relationship. She is 100% focused completely on what she is getting out of the relationship and has absolutely no concern for the other side.

Here at TRP, we may be only concerned with what we are getting out of relationships and women, but the difference is that we realize that we have to offer some value in exchange for what we want.

[–]SPICY_BUTT_MILK 20 points21 points  (0 children)

She's a woman, so he's sooooo lucky just to be there.

[–]throwaway-aa2 13 points14 points  (1 child)

we may be only concerned with what we are getting out of relationships and women

I'm sooo past trying to justify TRP to ANYONE. The amount of women I've met and talked with who don't get simple fucking concepts about very common sense things is STAGGERING. I've had to explain to women why online dating doesn't work as easily for men. She argued with me for 20 minutes, before finally telling me (she's a hard 7) that she doesn't ever send the first message. She gets 20 messages a day and picks the best guys. In her 30's. HUH?! How can I logically take you seriously when you can't even think logically to begin with?

I'm sold on this idea: women are ignorant in the areas that benefit them to be ignorant. The same concept that a woman can completely take advantage of a beta, and in the same breathe cry and wail when an alpha does the same to them, and they don't even GET the similarity!

I've accepted that TRP will never be accepted by women, because it's just not beneficial. Girls will continue to be ignorant because they CAN. Anytime I hear one of these stories... it just really makes me confident that I'm on the right path, and I lift even harder the next session, I eat even more then next session, I treat women with more callousness & disrespect... and it works. I really didn't want to become this way but at the end of the day we're animals and we have to learn to survive in our environment. I can't give a fuck what people think about this shit anymore.

So yeah... so what if we're concerned with what we are getting out of relationships and women.

[–]nuc22 24 points25 points  (3 children)

This guy was me some 3 years back.

[–]symko 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Men need a hobby and a woman isn't a hobby. If she's into you, you'll know it without lifting a finger. Otherwise ignore and enjoy your hobby.

[–]1Snivellious 37 points38 points  (6 children)

Jesus. I have female friends, and that's not what this was. They're relationships based on mutual romantic disinterest, where we support each other.

Sure, I'll help you move, if you pay me back in beer, food, and favors. I'll listen to your problems, because I know you'll listen to mine. I'll drive you to work, or loan you my car, because you would do the same for me. There's no hint of friendship here, just an abuse of loyalty.

If she actually wanted to be friends, she'd compensate him for his time and money with hers. She'd also wingman for him, or set him up.

It probably isn't even too late for her to do those things and become a friend - except that it's 22 years of learned entitlement too late for her to become a decent person.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

She'd also wingman for him, or set him up.

I've never seen women do this. If anything, they tend to make it harder for you to meet anyone else.

[–]ChairBorneMGTOW 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Absolutely true. Bitches are protective of their beta orbiters. If she introduces him to Jenny our Susan, all his attention will go to her instead, she can't have that!

I had once hit on a broad who ran in sort of similar social circles. she wasn't interested, no prob. We met through colleagues a few more times after that, and I made a move again. She actually used "LJBF" on me. "You are a great catch Chairborne, but I don't date men in this social circle."

...Ok I'm cool with that.

I said to her outright "hey, you know a ton of single women, introduce me some time." She agreed.

Go out with a group a week later and there are a few hotties. The one she introduces me to is a fucking ditch pig, overweight late 30s, a 3 at best.

She was communicating to me that she was not going to grant access to her clutch of chicks, but wanted me to orbit her regardless.

Noped the fuck out of there.

[–]d6x1 18 points19 points  (1 child)

She believes that she also brings something to their 'relationship'. She has no clue.

[–]RPthrowaway123 55 points56 points  (7 children)

Whenever a girl talks about shit like this I always make a simple analogy: the dog died, can we keep it?

[–]2Overkillengine 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Good use of emotive significance. Implicitly equating sticking around after failed physical relationship attempt with keeping a dead and potentially rotting animal carcass would be arguably more successful at conveying the sensation of visceral disgust that leads her to understanding far more than dry logic would.

[–]garlicextract 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I feel pretty dumb but... what?

[–]mrmeyhemn 42 points43 points  (4 children)

you can spot the entitled cunts and whiteknights with comments like "he was never your friend just wanted pussy" and "just because you rejected him does not mean he should stop helping you!"

was he a nice guy? probably not, he didn't lash out or get angry. i think its more likely that the "friendshit" (being friends with a selfish cunt) was one sided, he developed feelings because his desire to help her/be around her made him feel more manly, got rejected, then started to move on. nothing wrong with that.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 53 points54 points  (3 children)

"Nice guy" is social blackmail to make men do things for women for free.

The exchange is that men do things for women, and women approve of those men with phrases like "nice guy" and "good man".

Yes, men will enslave themselves and fight and die for female approval. The Great Lie is that female approval is worthless, and actually makes sex less likely.

[–]SPICY_BUTT_MILK 8 points9 points  (2 children)

The exchange is that men do things for women, and women approve of those men with phrases like "nice guy" and "good man".

Most women don't have a fucking clue what a good man actually is.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Most women don't have a fucking clue what a good man actually is.

They know all about "having stuff done for me" and the power of female approval or disapproval though.

"Good man" = "man I approve of for now because he does shit for me"

[–]SPICY_BUTT_MILK 8 points9 points  (0 children)

In this society, "good man" means he shuts the fuck up, keeps going to work, and lets her feels run rampant over everything.

[–]sodainthewatercup6 31 points32 points  (1 child)

I'd also put a healthy amount of cash on a bet that this "friendship" was completely one-sided the entire time. Men aren't the only ones that need to wake up.

[–]RuthlessMaxima 12 points13 points  (1 child)

This guy knows how to handle the fucking friend zone.

[–]mygodimpathetic 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Bravo. I'm proud of this guy. Cut his loses and moved on.

I've been there. I met this girl in one of my CS classes. We started hanging out, going on mini dates, and we'd often do homework together... read: I'd often help her with homework. She was basically passing the class thanks to me.

Halfway thru the semester, I ask her out officially. Get shut down, she says she just got out of a LTR, blah blah, that she needs more time. Ok, fine. It'll give you time. Went on spring break to another country, and come back to the fact that she's hooked up and now dating an acquaintance. I confront her about it and she spins the hamster. I go on complete radio silence and even sit on opposite ends of the class, instead of next to her. Class was so easy I stopped attending, and only showed up for tests/quizzes.

Fast forward next semester, I run into her and she's struggling with her data structures class, and dares to ask for my help. All I reply is "I don't have time. Good luck with that" and walk away. I think she dropped out of CS. Never saw her again.

Little by little you notice it. It's like something is wrong and you can't quite tell what it is. Until the day comes when the red pill is staring you right in the face, and then it all makes sense.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

This is the kind of shit that sparks anger in men when dealing with women.

People wonder why we sometimes call women the most responsible teenager in the house?

Only a person with the mind of a child would be this one-dimensionally self absorbed. The fact that she feels outraged that a guy courted her for 8 months (because that's what he did) like a gentleman and then decided to turn his attentions elsewhere when she rejected him just shows how stupid, selfish and infantile she is.

We know here on TRP the modern archetypal woman sees zero value in the archaic method of courtship. Unfortunately, some men foolishly still try to use the practice. This story is just further proof that its an outdated practice turned into a fool's errand in contemporary dating life.

Women in the contemporary dating scene are too dumb and selfish to recognize when a young man enters into a courtship period with them. Courtship ritual and methodology is a sign of respect and affection towards the woman and she should be flattered by the gesture. If she knows she'll never be interested, then she should have enough class to let that be known up front, setting the boundaries for any potential mutual friendship.

This is the way women (mostly) used to behave before 3rd wave feminism.

Now everything is framed as either a right or an indignity for women. Men's role in society is purposefully devalued. They are labeled as lesser and undeserving. Women on the other hand are told they are infallible. The result is any man who wants respect and dignified treatment from women fights an uphill battle. By default the modern archetypal female believes it is OK to shit on you and any resistance displayed in an indictment to your character. Match that with rapidly declining utility women naturally feel as a result of the man's capitulation and that's why you have 120k+ subs here on TRP.

If you want a woman's attention and respect you have to demand it immediately out of the gate. Like I've said many times before you have to be something they want and that has to be your leverage for attaining the attention and treatment you want. Women are selfish - they just are - they are that way because they can be. All the thirst out there affords them that privilege. They really don't start to face real consequences until they approach 30 (when thirst begins to fade). If you're just another thirsty chump lining up to give away the store without any payment being exchanged (courtship as defined in the contemporary mindset) then expect to be fully exploited and ultimately excoriated.

One has to have realistic understanding of the depths of selfish depravity the average young women commonly descends to. They have a different view of the world. Most of them are genuinely incapable of comprehending what actual social fairness is, as they're used to having the world cater to their whims.

[–]1raceAround126 10 points11 points  (1 child)

The less attention I pay to women, the more I get. The shift swapping thing is funny. One of my plate's beta orbiters ferries her around everywhere. Despite being rejected three times after he professed his undying love, he still does shit for her.

In every word, there is an ethos to stick to. "Never suggest they don't have to pay you. What they get for free, they will take for granted and later demand as a right". Same in everything. Never just do shit for people. Because when you stop for whatever reason, it will be demanded lest you be an asshole.

[–]bat_mayn 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Wow, women go through so much. They have to deal with the opposite sex being extremely and unconditionally "nice" to them for months or years. Then these monsters, who were being "nice" to them.. well they want to get intimate after a set amount of time? Can you believe that?

What a dog eat dog world out there. War, war never changes.

Fucking incredible.

[–]f3yleaf 7 points8 points  (0 children)

For a guy who is still plugged in he handled it okay imo, guys have been fed this "Friends" bullshit forever, some women may whine about dishonest nice guys, but if that gravy train stopped there would be a cascade of tears, and a windfall for moving companies, tech support, therapists and emotional support groups lol.

Fact is most guys dont know any better, they think the matrix is real, lets not buy into the feminist shaming narrative, these guys are just doing what those same feminists taught them(dont be direct and sexual, thats toxic masculinity, making a girl feel uncomfortable is practically rape etc.)

Yes its pathetic, but still.

[–]1NV0K3R 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I find it amusing that the OP never responds to anything in these kind of posts when the rabble doesn't defend her.

I know he's an asshole so all of you are wrong.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I was in this situation, I took it a step farther, I knew her for almost 8 years and in the last year of our friendship we got a lot closer, we talked for about an hour EVERY night and we'd spend weekends together about once or twice a month which included sleeping in the same bed and cuddling (nothing more).

So, old blue pill me eventually catches feelings because she was honestly a pretty interesting girl, one of the few that I've met who was genuinely intelligent and interesting to talk with. She comes back around and says "You don't even know me scubar!" and "I'm not ready for a relationship right now!". Two weeks later she's dating some other guy she just met.

I guess that ended recently because now she's trying to pull me back into orbit again.

[–]1drtigerface 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Did one of you red bastards write this? Nobody is as willfully clueless as this bitch.

[–]SureImShore 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Pretty telling that there isn't even the thought of reciprocation of this 'friendship'. Nothing along the lines of, "I'm there for him, as well, if he has any issues." "I would/do cover for him, when he needs it." etc.

"I asked if he'd be ready to help me move again like last time."

Classic! A rational adult request would be, "I know you helped me move recently, which was very much appreciated, and is there any way you could help out again? I'll buy food, beer, etc. its a really big help and I appreciate it." However, the default has already become, "When I need something, he is supposed to be there to provide it to me."

Good on this guy for setting boundaries and not putting up with bullshit. I love how he's 'an asshole' when she admits he is nice to her, smiles, and continues to speak with her on skype. When she requests his time and help (for a second time, without any thought of reciprocation - and I'm only talking about money, food, etc.), he replies that he was happy to help the first time, but he has other priorities and probably won't be available to help. Omg what an asshole!

[–]RPthrowaway123 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Good to see the comments having some actual sane responses for once. This girl is an idiot. She lost her gravy train because she crashed her orbiter, and now she's come to reddit for hamster reinforcement.

[–]slothsenpai 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Holy fuck. Whenever the term "nice guy tm" is thrown about, I thought it was used to vilify butthurt betas who go on about "teh evil, friendzoning bitches". The guy was not rude or condescending to her whatsoever, he just decided to treat her like a normal person instead, simply not cheaply doing favours for them.

[–]garlicextract 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Then over the next few days I noticed things were a bit different. He would still talk to me, chit chat occasionally, smile, say Hi.

what the fuck? He's still cordial to her and professional and she's upset? Disgusting level of entitlement

[–]SwissPablo 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The guy must have been interested in her from the get go, but made the major mistake of trying to friend his way to being her lover when he should have let her know right away he was interested.

So she's an asshole for letting it go on that long (can't believe she wouldn't see he was interested in her romantically) and taking advantage, and he's an asshole for not letting her know sooner and trying to buy affection, although he gets some credit for shutting it down when she rejected him.

He really needs to read No More Mr Nice Guy. It'll change his life.

[–][deleted] 12 points12 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]RichardPalma 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I'm not nearly as big a guy as you, but I just don't mind helping people move. I'd rather do some lifting that actually has a purpose, so many times I've been working it thinking "There is no point to this." Also it can be very social, but even that's not all I like about it. One time I was in New York and side guy was moving into a 5 story walk up and a was waiting for a table. I just jumped in and started to help him. The guys dad was with him and he came in and paid for my and my wife's meal after. Didn't need to do it, but I've always gotten good dividends from helping people move.

[–]1sardinemanR 10 points11 points  (1 child)

In my lifetime I learned there are no such things as female friends. They never DO anything for you at all. They don't even initiate anything themselves either.

For women, I do not believe they are in fact capable of friendship. I believe they only see other people, and this includes other women, as tools for social ends. What I mean by that is as long as you have high social status, and this is different than SMV, they then want to be known as your "friend" because it gains them a part of that status.

So while you have high status, they will make a big show of being your friend, maybe even hook you up with other women and talk you up.

The second that goes however, whether through loss of a job or something else, they are themselves gone. Now their own marriages may not end that, unless their husbands put their fut down, but eventually if you don't get married the trajectory generally gets too far off in terms of social status (certain social circles which women aim for require all men to be married).

Anyway, women are a waste of time for friendship or any long term relationships.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

No one seems to see that this is a great example of psychological projection.

She's projecting her bad behavior onto him while looking for social validation from other entitled cunts and white knights.

"I feel used", who used whom ? I mean seriously she's too stupid to breathe at this point if she didn't notice that he was into her.

[–]redditplsss 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Are all women that clueless? There is no way she could not reflect on her own damn post while typing it.

[–]UgUgImDyingYouIdiot 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I usually do this to a woman if she doesn't reciprocate any kind of attention I give her. I work up a good rapport and flirt etc but if she doesn't want to hang out or attempt to seek positive attention from me I just cut her off 100%. It's like hitting them in the feels with a bat, kind of an emotional rejection they feel when someone who would talk to them on a regular basis just cuts them off.

[–]CuntyMcFagNuts69 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Come on. Where are the marriage counseling comments.


[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So, I see a lot of the responses say something along the lines of

Had he just approached her and been upfront with her from the get-go

I don't get this. I mean, if the guy is looking for a LTR with her and thinks he may like her, why wouldn't he want to get to know her first before deciding to ask her out. Maybe it took him that long to build up the courage to ask her out. They work together, so maybe he didn't want to come off as a creepy guy and ask her out right when they first met.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This EXACT thing happened with me and a girl I was "friends" with. As soon as I started distancing myself because she didn't want anything from me except being an orbiter after getting rejected, I was suddenly "an asshole". All the way until I stopped talking to her completely I'd see her bitching about "another nice guy who turned out to be an asshole" on Facebook almost weekly. No bitch, you:

don't get the benefit of boyfriend-like behavior from someone you will only accept platonic friendship with.

[–]4StreamsLightAndLife 26 points27 points  (29 children)

He was operating on a covert contract like a typical nice guy and she sees it for what it is.

Yes, he's an asshole. All Nice Guy™ are bluepill self-deluding assholes.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I'm telling you the same I told some other guy above:

You're buying into the malicious spin feminists have put on that story.

Consider the following:

  • the stereotypical nice guy is afraid of rejection
  • he treats his love interest like he would treat a girlfriend - on purpose, to demonstrate her what an awesome boyfriend he'd make (by displaying all those qualities women ostensibly love sooooo much - being generous, attentive, a good listener, communicating, always there for her yadda yadda yadda); and the woman accepts this treatment without hestitation
  • usually, he never says that they're "just friends" or behaves like a platonic friend would behave - and if the women wanted to, she could easily realize that her guy friend sees her as more than a friend. He doesn't explicitly voice his romantic interest, but he communicates it quite clearly.

NMMNG is right insofar as the nice guy sets up "covert contracts", in that case the "I treat you like I would treat my girlfriend, and by accepting that treatment, you're signaling me that you would be receptive to my advances". However, as this contract implies, the girl is de facto entering it as well out of her own free will, because, as I said, it's usually blindingly obvious when a nice guy is into you - so one can hardly talk about the guy being the asshole here. Hypothetical scenario: if a girl drove 2 hours each evening to give you blowjobs for free and cook you dinner afterwards, would you be surprised if she finally confessed her feelings to you? And would you call her an asshole if she cut contact after you rejected her?

If anything, I'd argue that the love interest in that equation is the asshole (unless she's truly clueless... yes, some girls are actually that dense and not just manipulative) since she's willing to milk the guy's attention for what it's worth while always hiding the "plausible deniability"-ace up her sleeve should the guy decide to finally come forward. And then run to reddit to create a "woe is me"-post.

Here is a post of a woman who is aware of these covert contracts and how to deal with them.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (2 children)

"I helped her move, so she will in return fall in love with me."

Can't believe I was doing the same.

[–]PaulAJK 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Can't believe I was doing the same.

I'm sure 95% of us have done similar.

[–]Porter_West 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Unintentional assholes, but assholes nonetheless.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Don't tell me she didn't know that he was into her and that she wasn't willfully using him.

[–]Porter_West 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh not saying that at all. I was talking about how Nice Guys don't understand how covert contracts (among other things) make them seem like assholes.

[–]scrantonic1ty 10 points11 points  (9 children)

I smell a troll. I know things like this do happen but this is just too perfect in conforming to the stereotype.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 23 points24 points  (1 child)

The stereotypes exist for a reason.

We've all done similar enough to this, I know I have. I can iterate exactly the same story with a girl who I was crazy about and helping for a while. Did lots of stuff for her in the hope it would get us closer, asked her out, got told no, withdrew support. She probably complained to her friends about it.

The covert-contract is "here is how amazing I would be to date, not like those other sexy assholes who just fuck you till you orgasm screaming fireworks, but instead I'll help you with a lift and show you how to do your homework".

It's totally understandable that men do this, given how much women scream that it's what they want, and gender is a social construct and therefore she's telling the truth just like I would. (Heavy sarcasm).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did just about the same as this guy at one stage, also politely cut ties when I saw it wasn't going anywhere, also had all manner of shit generated by her (to mutual friends) when she figured out her little helper and emotional tampon wasn't there anymore. In her mind she just couldn't why I would be so mean to her. In my mind, I just stopped investing in a losing bet.

The textbook is often exactly right.

[–]dreckmal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hate to agree, but I do.

I suppose it could just be a throwaway from some basic bitch.

I know a lot of guys on this sub could easily have been 'Greg', so it is certainly plausible, but something seems strange about it for sure.

Maybe I'm just a cynical asshole though... lol

[–]Moneyley 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Her "asshole" definition- No longer does favors for me Also see: lives a normal life without considering helping me

[–]Emiel000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm actually quite positively surprised at the reactions in r/relationships. Though I feel this is because 90% or more of the ppl writing the reactions have been in the situation of the guy and really can't take sides with the girl in this particular case because they can relate.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow.. So the guy actually has a life and can't help her move or chat on Skype as often; so he's an asshole?

It's absurd how so many women think they're entitled to boyfriend/husband privileges without wanting to actually date the dude. I find it hilarious that she has the nerve to label him a "nice guy" because he has a common understanding of human relationships and boundaries.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I feel like a proud parent when my sock puppet r/relationships posts make it to the front page of trp

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He finally wised up and quit being an emotional tampon. He learned the more you do for women the less you get back. This is why I don't have relationships with women. If I'm not hitting it, I don't know you. Have a nice day.

[–]FoundRed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That was a refreshing top comment. A sigh of relief, maybe the world is coming to it's senses about these self-cenetered arrogant cunts.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She's entitled but he also should've just made a move initially. There is absolutely no point of not making a move, being really nice to a girl and thinking she'll take a hint. She won't and even if she does, she probably won't make a move. Waiting 8 months to make a move just eats up your time and makes you look weird. It's also a lot easier to move on from it if you actually want to be friends with the girl if you make a move early on. I'm not at all blaming him or her here. I'm just saying girls generally don't make moves and not being upfront won't give her mixed signals.

[–]changshuaidiao 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Guys aren't niceness machines that you put nothing into and nicest falls out.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I feel like this is a troll post. I think every girl (especially if she's 22) knows about this stuff, she knows what and why happened.

Second reason why I think this is troll, is because this account only made this post and has no comment whatsoever.

[–]Brave_Horatius 5 points6 points  (0 children)

People make throwaway accounts for rel and db the whole time. Probably hasn't replied because her personal narrative just gid assraped when she was expecting nothing but support.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I feel like this is a troll post. I think every girl (especially if she's 22) knows about this stuff

Do not underestimate The Power Of Hamster.

Why is she even pretending to be confused with a post on the internet? To justify her position of course. She knows what's happened, she knows in her post what has happened, why is she even talking about it? To exonerate herself. To be told that he is in the wrong, not her. It's female self-talk and groupthink. All to make her feelz better.

Troll or not, this kind of thing happens a million times a day in the Western world.

[–]RichardBelmont 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think she was probably seeking validation of her bad behavior too.

I'm a fan of The Biggest Problem in the Universe, and they just covered helping friends move recently: http://thebiggestproblemintheuniverse.com/episode-63/

[–]Aspiring_Hobo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You gotta understand, women have the memory of goldfish. They don't remember what you did for them 2 weeks ago. They develop a sense of entitlement. This broad expected to be treated like his girlfriend yet she wasn't his girlfriend. Women need to understand that we (men) value our time, space and attention like they value their bodies. Why is she entitled to his time? Hell, even if she were his girlfriend she wouldn't be entitled to anything.

[–]ThePermanentGuest 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Predicted cycle:

Guy becomes asshole to her, ignores her --> Girl becomes attracted to guy --> Guy sees he has another chance, reverts to simp behavior --> Girl loses attraction, eases him back into friendzone

I'm moving apartments again in a months time, and I asked if he'd be ready to help me move again like last time, he said probably not and that he's too busy.

I can't blame her that people fall for this. But come on.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I blame poor (or no) parenting by fathers for shit like this. Obviously her dad never taught her the value of a man's time and labor.

[–]1favours_of_the_moon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not about what she genuinely thinks or feels.

She didn't get her way, which is to say, didn't get to have her cake and eat it too. Didn't get to reject him and still have him serve her. She wanted to FEEL THE POWER.

So she's just lashing out at him, that's all. It's not the content that is being communicated, per se.

[–]blackberryx 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Female friends are just girls you haven't fucked yet.

[–]AlfaGTV6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The comments were very surprising. I thought for sure Greg was gonna be called the devil.

[–]Upvote_To_The_Left 1 point2 points  (0 children)

that post has to be a troll because nobody could be that stupid. Pretty sure that post is just flamebait.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol what the hell does she do for him? Nothing. Guy decides he doesn't want to be a doormat anymore and he is the asshole. Make sense! /s

[–]redmeatball 1 point2 points  (1 child)

why is the tag blue? I thought the guy was pretty red?

[–]Sdom1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Her definition of friendship is pretty awesome, probably because she's never really had a friend. You gotta love that she feels used when the gravy train stops.

[–]Lonny_zone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Never seen a hamster wheel spin this fast. Looks like its frozen in time.

[–]throwaway-aa2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's like... why don't you understand that you don't deserve for someone to do nice things for you when you bring nothing to the table. If someone starts being nice to me out of nowhere, I immediately know that they want something. So when a girl let's a guy be nice to her, do all this shit for her like listen to her... that's not him being a friend, because if you were friends, you'd do so for him too. So when he asks you out and you turn him down but still want to be friends, my only reaction is that you're either completely heartless or a complete idiot. How do I not look at that and think you are a being that I need to completely dominate?

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