Silent Majority: Social Anxiety (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by MortalSisyphus

Summary: Many people suffer under the weight of social anxiety, which can range from mild to severe. Such phobias can be overcome by committing to a system of progressive exposure and desensitization. If you put in the work, you can reach a point where social interaction stops feeling like work and starts feeling like fun.

Introduction: Lurking behind this and many other related communities is a "silent majority"... Men who watch and read the material, learn the techniques, but never leave their room or approach women. The greatest weakness holding these men back from success with women is not their physique, not their knowledge of theory, not their career... It is social anxiety.

I won't venture to guess a percentage, but there is no doubt in my mind that a significant portion of men here have some degree of social anxiety, which can range from mild to severe. Much of the advice given is little use to such individuals, since they are so lacking in basic social skills or confidence that they have little chance of successfully applying the theory. Most people simply don't know how deep and how crippling a severe case of social anxiety can actually get. They can't fathom that some people sit in their rooms every single day and are terrified to even go out in public or look someone in the eye.

Social anxiety only gets worse the longer you isolate yourself and hide from your fears, so the time to take action is now. Stop making excuses and thinking "I have to lift/read/work more first!" This is a guide to help anyone with social anxiety, from the mild to the most severe.

Body: Skip ahead to your personal point of resistance. Read the steps outlined below, and stop at the one which gives you a feeling of anxiety at the thought of enacting. This is a program of progressive desensitization, the most common strategy in cognitive psychology for dealing with phobias. The body cannot maintain a state of high-alert perpetually, you must expose yourself to anxiety and hold in that state until the fight-or-flight response begins to subside. Stay at any step as long as you need until you feel comfortable and your anxiety is at a manageable level, but be sure to push yourself continually to move forward and not sit in a comfort zone. You must make yourself uncomfortable to make progress. You have two choices: Cope, or Thrive.

1) Environmental Desensitization, or "GO OUTSIDE, BITCH!"

Leave the house. Go somewhere that people will frequent. Sit in that area. Just sit there. Try your best to relax and be at ease around people. Stay until your feelings of anxiety and self-consciousness subside. Go somewhere even more crowded and social, and repeat the process. Sit in a cafeteria, or a club, or a university gathering. Don't hide by staring at your cell phone, stay present to the environment. Try meditation if you wish. Most likely, everyone will ignore you. Stay until your anxiety level drops to a manageable level and you feel at ease. For some, this may take a long time. Repeat this daily until you feel prepared for the next step.

2) Encounter Desensitization, or "People really aren't that scary!"

Go into a public place where you can find people walking around, such as a university campus or downtown sidewalk. You are going to follow these three simple steps: Walk, hold eye contact, smile. As you walk and a woman is walking towards you, look at her eyes. DO NOT LOOK AWAY. You may feel intensely uncomfortable, but hold eye contact, and hold a smile. Once she passes you, continue walking and repeat the process. Again, and again, and again, until holding eye contact does not cause fear or anxiety.

Believe it or not, if you smile at most people, they will smile back. As you repeat this process, you will begin to feel that people aren't quite the scary monsters you made them out to be. Most are friendly if they are greeted in a friendly, non-aggressive way. You will also recognize that eye contact and smiling are normal for most people. It is not the awkward, uncomfortable imposition you may feel it to be.

As you grow more comfortable doing this, add a fourth step: Say a one-liner in passing such as "hi" or "nice day." You aren't looking for a response, just to get used to opening your mouth to strangers.

3) Rejection Desensitization, or "Safe Rejection"

Your goal in this step is to get rejected. Many guys enter an interaction with the feeling that the outcome is intensely important. They will consciously critique their own behavior, will constantly look for clues or validation from the woman, etc.. We are going to forget all of that for now. We are going to approach women with no investment at all, and we are going to get rejected. There are two fundamental lessons to be learned here: Outcome Independence, and Amused Mastery.

Go to a public place where you are anonymous. Find a woman, preferably alone, and walk up to her with a cocky or amused smirk. Look her right in the eyes, and say something absolutely bizarre, off-the-wall, perhaps even disgusting.

Her response is irrelevant. Chances are, she won't respond kindly. She may give you a disgusted look and turn away. She may insult you and leave. She may burst out laughing at the absurdity of it and the balls it took to say it. The point is, you are saying it purely to amuse yourself and to make progress, you don't give a fuck what she thinks, says or does in response. You WANT rejection, which is what makes the rejection "safe." Repeat this step as needed until your fear of safe rejection from women is manageable and you develop sufficient Outcome Independence and Amused Mastery.

4) Deep Interaction Desensitization.

Now the difficulty begins to ramp up, as you are finally starting to put your real ego on the line. You will approach women again, except this time you are aiming to hold a legitimate conversation with them. Do your best to hold court. Tell a story about something that happened to you, talk about your passion for music or nutrition, anything can work. Preferably the topic is deep and interesting enough that you can begin to have a two-way conversation. This is where you will begin to learn difficult skills such as social calibration and how to avoid awkward silences.

Be sure to maintain good eye-contact and to smile/smirk regularly. Make the conversation last as long as possible. Avoid falling into one-line traps such as talking about the weather. When you think you've pushed yourself sufficiently or established enough rapport, close up the interation and move on to someone else (or get her number if you feel confident enough). You aren't going for canned speeches here, but organic communication.

5) Rejection Desensitization, Part 2

When we sought rejection before, we did it with no ego investment at all. Now we are going for the opposite, by seeking success and avoiding rejection. Approach a woman, introduce yourself, and make small talk. Eventually you are going to ask her either to go with you somewhere, or for her number so you can contact her again. This is the part where most people with social anxiety will bail or give up. They intensely fear the humiliation of being rejected by a woman they are invested in. If necessary, go back and repeat steps 3 and 4 until you are in a "don't give a fuck" state, and try again.

This is a stage that even advanced PUA gurus may find themselves in. Even after years of experience, approach anxiety can creep back up again. The only way to defeat it is to face it again and again until you are hardened to it. Over time, you may find that the fear of rejection actually causes the approach to be the most thrilling aspect of game, the part that keeps you coming back for more.

When you've made enough progress, and crushed your anxiety sufficiently, you can reach a point where social interaction stops feeling like work, and starts feeling like fun. And from that point, success will naturally flow.

Lessons learned:

  • Absolute commitment to embracing the difficulty of change is necessary for you to break free from social anxiety and have a fulfilling life.

  • Progress is best made by focusing on small baby steps. Don't overwhelm yourself, ease into the water.

  • A repetitive process of exposure to fears will eventually rewire your brain and diminish the fight-or-flight response.

  • Stop making excuses such as "I need to lift/read more first!" Tackle your greatest weakness first and start approaching.

[–]whisky1111 214 points215 points  (29 children)

"Find a woman, preferably alone, and walk up to her with a cocky or amused smirk. Look her right in the eyes, and say something absolutely bizarre, off-the-wall, perhaps even disgusting. Try on this little gem: "Can I pee in your butt?"

Cut to next scene: you are being led away in hand cuffs and then the cop pushes your head down to get into the back of the car.

[–][deleted] 69 points70 points  (3 children)

If you're attractive enough, you can get away with nearly anything. I do agree that that doesn't make it good advice, however.

[–]WallstreetBateman 34 points35 points  (0 children)

If you're attractive enough, you can get away with nearly anything.

This is why I'm inclined to disagree with the all the anti- monk mode posts that have been going up recently. Monk mode gives you the opportunity to make yourself attractive enough to the point where saying stuff like "Can I pee in your butt?" will not land you in a cop car.

We can all make ourselves more attractive if we try. One of the best ways to do this is monk mode i believe.

[–]Luckyluke23 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I will bet you 10000000000000$ 99% of the guys here dont look at the good. Let alone have the balls to do it.

[–]wehadtosaydickety 45 points46 points  (9 children)

This advice is terrible (OP).

You remember that outcast in high school? The kid who smelled like shit, threw things in class, called the hottest girl in school a bitch to her face, and tattooed his face? He did all that shit to 'amuse himself.'

This reinforces the notion (imaginary before taking this advice) that you are an outcast, that your approach to other people will lead to grand and embarrassing rejection. Instead of seeking that out, you should see what a normal approach results in, which 99.9% of the time is either a) not rejection or b) subtle or quiet rejection.

Going around saying 'fuck the world' and being treated like a weirdo, because you're acting like one, is not the way to get over social anxiety.

My practical tip for some: if you drink too much alcohol this is likely giving you more anxiety problems.

[–]rtron36 9 points9 points [recovered]

My practical tip for some: if you drink too much alcohol this is likely giving you more anxiety problems.

Liquid courage comes at a price. Not to mention directly fucking up your game (I've lost out on countless opportunities by slurring my speech or being "that guy", while drinking to be more social in the first place), but I struggle with anxiety and alcohol addiction is without a doubt a contributing factor. Messes up your sleep, too, which further contributes, wash, rinse repeat.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

There's no such thing as a biological free lunch.

[–]rtron36 2 points2 points [recovered]

I've never heard it phrased this way . . . I'm putting this in my back pocket, thanks.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Bravo. One sane answer in this thread.

Masking anxiety with weirdness is like masking depression with alcohol or something similar. It's lying to yourself and others.

I strongly believe root of social anxiety is belief thay you're deep down fucked up, unworthy. This is possible to change by achievements and break throughs or simply by objectively analyzing your situation.

Lot of times situation is great, because feeling of inadequacy can push you forward even when you're good already. But obviously it's wrong or at least nonsense motivation.

Being weirdo won't help at all. It's gonna be like a hangover after you were drinking for wrong reasons. You borrow some positive energy and tomorrow it's just worse. Look in old school army dictionary for "borrowed brass".

I'm not educated for this, but I saw many guys getting rid of sociak anxiety by doing major breakthroughs in life under two conditions: you need some balls for it and it makes you so uncomfortable thay you stop giving a fuck for others ( in a sense that you stop seeking validations)

[–]Luckyluke23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Both are true.....though i think doing this for a little while can help of you arw an uber chode. But it should be a faze rather than an all the time thing.

[–]enjoyit7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I was 16 some guys I hung out with would walk up to girls and say things like can I pee in your but or can I eat skittles out of your pussy. I thought they were crazy girls usually laughed and ignored them. Occasionally a slut responded and became a plate. Not only their plate but pretty much a plate for any one in that social circle. I think the point of saying things like that isn't to become a creep but to fake your fear of rejection. You are going to be rejected if you say something like that and you will learn that rejection doesn't hurt.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I would just ask her phone wtf

[–]Interversity 6 points7 points  (4 children)

It's a reference to a post on social freedom wherein a guy told the story of his friend who banged a girl same night with that same opener.

[–]MortalSisyphus 18 points18 points [recovered]

I actually got that quote from Models by Mark Manson. It's a quite amusing story, and yes it is bad advice for picking up women, but for the purposes of embracing outcome independence it is a useful tool.

[–]Interversity 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ah, I knew I read it somewhere good. Demonstrates well that it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

[–]icecow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd love to listen to recordings of all the different ways people said that. ha

[–]BlackHeart89 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Lol Around her, the women will just curse you out. Things could escalate from there.

The cops barely even get called for assault. Even when its a woman that gets hit by a guy.

[–]SitupsPullups 35 points36 points  (15 children)

As someone with severe social anxiety, I want to thank you for this contribution.

I'm in my early 20's now and have been going through therapy for over a year. I've made a lot of progress already, but I'm still very far from where I want to be.

Reading this guide, I've acquired a better insight on where my therapy has been lacking: Setting goals. Setting goals is the most fundamental thing of any therapy, but it is also the hardest thing to get right. I have always been able to formulate what situations make me anxious, but not where I want to be in the end. Most psychologists will use exposure and cognitive behavioral therapy to help you overcome these fears.

Now, we all know the average female psychologist (all my psychologists were female, who would've guessed?) will not give you solid advice on how to overcome the fear of talking to women. As someone who is in need of therapy, it is almost impossible to think of this yourself, or even think of where you want to end up. Yes, I want to be able to talk to girls easily and have lots of hot sex with them, but the moment I can't even have a normal conversation with a stranger this seems out of my reach.

Now, I would definitely advise everyone in a similar situation to go to a psychologist, because they can give you the tools to help yourself out of the shithole you're in. Now that I have acquired these tools, this guide is exactly what I need to get going.

[–]dufresne90 20 points21 points  (2 children)

I suffered from social anxiety myself and I still do up to some point. I was really, really lucky with my (male) therapist, because each week we had new goals he would set for me. I told him I was scared of talking to women and feeling boring in conversations, so he invited one girl per week to come to our session and all I had to do was smalltalk with her - that's it. At the end they had to fill out a questionnaire and write down how fun the conversation was, if I was boring, exciting etc.

The first few conversations were brutal. I sweated through the whole session and stuttered. Only to find out that all these women thought I was fun to talk with and all of my concerns were unprofounded. That helped me a lot, I'm much more relaxed during conversations with women and feeling much more confident. After that he pushed me to go out on the weekend and talk to girls at bars and later on we analysed the situation together. He was really understanding and I can definitely say that without him I'd still have anxiety talking to girls.

[–]winterequinox007 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I joined the military 8 months ago. I had social anxiety before that, and did not manage myself well.

I've got some good news and bad news:

The good news is that social anxiety can be overcome, and social adeptivity learnt.

The bad news is that it will take time, and it will take trial and error.

There's no simple way through it. I suffered for 5 months in basic training, before finally figuring out how to interact with people properly. The only solution is what OP said: get out there and see the world as it is.

Edit: I live in a country where national service is mandatory.

[–]TheSubwoofer 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Basic training is not 5 months long

[–]zo34 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is if you fail a couple of times...

[–]Elodrian 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think mandatory military service is a great idea. If everyone in the country spends 15 weeks in basic training and a further 37 weeks on national service, it would have two main benefits. First, it would be 15 weeks of "how to be a good citizen in this culture" training for every person in the country. No one can claim severe ostracism as cause for extremist politics because the dominant culture will have spent close to four months working to integrate them into the body politic. Second, it would give every citizen of the country a common touchstone over which they can bond. We don't have many universally shared traditions anymore, things that everyone went through that provide a feeling of belonging to a culture. Every single Jewish man has done Bar Mitsvah classes and gone through the ceremony. It provides a common reference point. Those reference points are important for building solidarity amongst a people. If everyone in your community went through the same year of military service as you did, you know you have that in common. You would know that you have something in common with your bosses bosses boss, with the homeless guy begging for change, and with that jerk on the red team. It would build empathy for fellow citizens and provide social cohesion.

edit: oh, and it would also give young adults a guaranteed introduction into the world of getting up and going to a job every morning. This is a good habit to instill in people, and showing people the benefits of financial independance firsthand would hopefully instill a work ethic in the future, whether or not they remain with the military.

[–]winterequinox007 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well said. That's exactly the touchstone that many males need. Where I'm from, military service (2 years) helps us bond very thoroughly and helps form a common point between males. I can instantly walk up to almost any guy on the street, and ask him about his military experience.

The fact is that being in the service will force a person into many uncomfortable situations, thus causing them to interact with many (often difficult) people at the same time. You learn really quickly by trial and error, and by implementing the simple theories and anecdotes that TRP provides. There's a sense of accomplishment that comes with being in the military as well. Being commissioned as an Officer, a Sergeant, a Guardsman, Commando, Recon personnel, or a Ranger immediately elevates you to a high status of respect among many males here. The physical accomplishments and feats will only serve to boost one's confidence as well; graduating from ranger school, getting recognition as a marksman etc.

You would know that you have something in common with your bosses bosses boss, with the homeless guy begging for change, and with that jerk on the red team. It would build empathy for fellow citizens and provide social cohesion.

That's how exactly it is like in my country. And I'm proud of my fellow countrymen.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I've acquired a better insight on where my therapy has been lacking: Setting goals.

Thats because therapists have a vested interest in you coming back. If you set goals and achieved them, they would lose business. So, instead of trying to make things better, they just make you "TALK" about your feelings ad naseum.

Therapists = totally worthless IMHO.

[–]SitupsPullups 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I have to disagree with you.

Every therapist I've been helped by has done so by helping me identify the problem and help me face it through exposure. They are there to help me get insight in my problems, while they give me a way to fix my own problems in my own time. It is their job to help and support me where I need it, for the rest I have to do it on my own.

This structure is at the very core of every form of self development program. This is essentially what made me realise that people can only guide you but if you want to achieve anything in life you have to do the work on your own. Therapists work this way, so does TRP. TRP shows you a way you can develope yourself, but tells you you have to go through all the shit yourself.

According to most threads I read here, there are many people who's eyes will never be opened even though we consider them in the need of help. Almost every single human being tends to get stuck where we'd say they can still make a lot of progression. All they need is someone to guide them into the right direction, drag them to the gym and force them to talk to girls. If this is the case, then how can a therapist ever run out of work if 80% of the population is in need of guidance?

Therapists do wonderful work, but simply can't help you on all fields. I'm lurking around on TRP to find information that other people can't give me, but that doesn't mean that therapists are worthless.

[–]WillWorkForLTC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Psychiatrists doesn't hurt so long as they don't put you on the hard stuff.

[–]Primemale 17 points18 points  (1 child)

This guide is spot on, I used to struggle with social anxiety, I found myself doing the steps that you outlined above, intuitively, you have to be head on with your fears. I used to give all of the excuses, ''bad haircut'' ''tired'' ''wind not blowing the right way'' in order to not do something, but if your thinking about it, then it means you want to do it, so either do it, or at least get yourself back in the state neccessary to do it with something similar to that which OP suggests.

Great piece man

[–]rtron36 20 points20 points [recovered]

I needed to read this. I'm actually an attractive, lively, funny, amusing guy . . . with a paralyzing fear of rejection. In my comfort zone, you would think I'm the life of every party. If I'm out of my comfort zone, I typically lead with something that can be interpreted as an apology for existing, a sign of submission, or a complete lack of confidence. I have overcome this many times and have had (typically blue pill beta bux) success with attractive women, but paralyzing fear remains the default setting. Despite several successful attempts at working my way out of this (typically 6 months-ish post break-up from an LTR), once I find myself back in this bubble of fear, it feels like I never left. That's what's so frustrating . . . it feels like I've had nothing but an unfulfilling life of fear, which is simply not true. A re-calibration is needed . . . a shift of a few wires . . . and I should be doing very well for myself. I think these steps are going to help. Thanks for taking the time to write this out.

[–]unpluggedoasis 9 points10 points  (5 children)

I felt like I wrote that. I just got into a sales job to literally FORCE me to talk to people and get out of my comfortzone. My whole livelihood depends on it and it is getting better each day. I still need to transition this improvement to approaching women. It sounds insane to write it but I would rather cold call in person the president of a company than a cute girl I see on the street. It is insane.

[–]rtron36 13 points13 points [recovered]

Yes, we need our comfort zones to be VASTLY bigger. The only way to get there is to continuously push the boundaries, and once the zone is a little wider, step right back out and push it even further. It feels weird as a full grown 'successful' man to be sitting here talking about building the courage to simply talk to girls . . . the fear builds on itself and grows into something grotesque and inexcusable . . . embarrassing . . . self perpetuating. And all we're talking about is potentially facing non-physical 'pain' in the form of disapproval from strangers who don't matter. But apparently if you can face this fear and develop a degree of mastery over it, the world belongs to you, and that sounds a hellavu lot better than cowering in my bubble of fear.

[–]X_GUN_GIVE_IT_TO_YA 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I would rather cold call in person the president of a company than a cute girl I see on the street

Is this because you're not cool with your own sexuality? Like, being attracted to girls is a good thing and you should embrace it? Trust me, i'm in the same boat as you.

[–]unpluggedoasis 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I definitely am attracted to women and think it is a good thing. I know a lot of this anxiety has come from being rejected a lot in the past by being friendzoned etc. when I was blue pill to the core. Even though I am a much better person now (in shape, good job etc.) those rejections still sting. I am being a bitch about it, I know what I have to do which is put myself out there and meet more women it is just a matter of doing it and not delaying because of that initial fear. Just this morning I went an approached a random girl, I didn't get her number but I saw that she didnt start screaming out at my like some of the scenarios my mind conjures up.

[–]nicechallenge 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm exactly like you. I even take a shitty job as a door to door salesman to become more social and face my anxiety. I'm better at social interaction now but flirting with any girl feels like the most difficult thing to me as you said I'd rather call a ceo than doing a cold approach. To be honest alcohol had always been my savior in these kind of social situations also I've tried to quit several times because I know I just use it to get rid of my anxiety.

[–]hebola4lyfe 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Amazing thread ! Thank you for taking your time to write this .

This is a very serious issue for many men even though we pretend it's not . I was once a victim of social anxiety and I did most of the steps you mentioned above to overcome it .

[–]richardguy 86 points86 points [recovered]

Stop making excuses such as I need to lift/read more first!"

I'm going to get downvoted badly for this. Don't care since I've noticed the effects first hand.

For some guys this is perfectly valid- approaching is not going to go in your favor if you're 40 pounds overweight- (not me, just an example). You're setting guys up to get their balls crushed by some chick's herd of ugly friends.

Of course practice is important- unless you're Arnie in his 30s, all of the lifting in the world can't help you, you're going to need to practice approaching. But a dude who is overweight, bad hygiene, just started TRP, is not going to just "approach" every person they see on the street. Monk Mode is an actual thing.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 31 points32 points  (2 children)

This is a very important point to remember. Monk mode is there for a reason. If your base SMV is still too low then you're invisible to chicks anyway and there's no point approaching because the outcome isn't just weighted towards rejection... the rejection happened before you even made your approach.

That said, you can also get trapped in monk mode waiting to be that little bit better. Newbie gains come on fast and shoot your SMV up by a point or two straight off the bat within the first month. I'd say as a general rule of thumb, if you've been in monk mode for 2-3 months and working consistently then you should be ready to make those first approaches. Plan it as part of your natural progression.

[–]throwaway320_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If your base SMV is still too low then you're invisible to chicks anyway

I can tell you this is completely true. I'm overweight and most girls actively avoid me, not even granting eyecontact.

[–]X_GUN_GIVE_IT_TO_YA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Me and a friend started working out in February. Started my first cycle a few months ago and the gains have been amazing. That was phase 1. Anyway, we call approaching girls phase 2 lol. Besides Tinder, I haven't been doing my part of phase 2. At least I'm still lifting and raising my smv... But I really need to start approaching..

[–]cazzah123 20 points21 points  (3 children)

Kinda agree. I think in that situation the guy needs to go get a hair cut and a shave, a fresh set of cloths, a shower then do the program.

Remember, #1 is literally go outside to a busy area and just walk around or sit down. Just be in the presence of people. Get used to it. No approaching. Hell, #2 doesn't even involve actually talking to people either.

And I would add in somewhere that talking to cashiers is a killer way to get some experience under your belt. "busy today isnt it" "when does your shift end then?" "hows your shift been?". All questions that get them talking and let you practice with someone who is paid to be nice.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Kind of what I started out with. Walking around downtown and passing people at first I would just avert my eyes and keep walking past them. Trying not to appear like I'm shy or weird probably ended up making me look shy or weird.

I remember an entire week over the Summer where I would just try to say "hi" to people and keep walking. Trying to walk into a Night Club or a Bar at that point would have just wrecked my emotions.

[–]MortalSisyphus 20 points20 points [recovered]

I suspect the people who are terribly unattractive or have bad hygiene on TRP are the minority. There are probably far more people who are sufficiently attractive to interact with women, but who use "Monk Mode" as a crutch to avoid facing their social fears.

Typically such individuals will exaggerate just how attractive you need to be to pick up women, as an excuse to avoid trying. It doesn't take very long to take a shower, shave, put on deodorant, and get some decent clothes. Weight loss will take longer, but you don't need a six pack to pick up chicks.

I also suspect such individuals will exaggerate how terrifying rejection is, ie "get your balls crushed by a herd of girls." Most women will let a guy off easy if he's clearly awkward or nervous, and will save the shit tests for those more alpha.

In general I think "stop stalling and go out" will yield more benefits for the average red piller than "you aren't ready yet, keep working."

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You're right! I think that's me right now. 10 months ago I barelly had IOIs from girls and I told myself that my looks sucked and how I wished to be more attractive and everything would be easy.

Now, I'm better physically and have a couple of fuck buddies and I still think that I'm not attractive enough. For example in the other day there's this girl at the gym which is really hot. At first I tried steal some glances but she doesn't seemed interested. Later she passed by me and she locked eye contact with me for at least 3 seconds with a slighty smile. My heart start racing and my legs trembling. I told myself that when I'm ready I will talk to her, when my muscles are bigger, when my body fat is lower, when my confidence is higher, when my social skills are higher, etc, etc...

Now I see that's male rationalizing to protect my ego. I wonder why we try to protet our egos so much? What's the evolutionary reason behind this?

[–]eLZhi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i recommend you read "A New Earth, Create A Better Life" by Eckhart Tolle.

it explains everything about the ego, i'm not saying you should buy it, google the title and author and add .pdf or .epub (if you have a kindle) and you should easily find a place where you could download it for free, that being said i think i bought the book and i thought it was worth it.

it explains everything about the ego very well and imo its a must read, especially if you find yourself thinking those "i'm not good enough right now" type of thoughts.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

These external necessities (exercise, hygiene, fashion, etc) are useful for making someone feel internally justified to talk to the girl.

Red pill hates this concept, but there are plenty of sleezeballs out there who are grimy, fat, rude, slovenly, and still banging hot chicks, getting promotions, etc, because they feel like they deserve to on the inside.

[–]1whatsazipper 13 points14 points  (0 children)

These types of posts apply best to the attractive men with unattractive behavior. There are plenty of them, given the bluepill nature of our society, but it leads to a message with split effectiveness.

If you're in that group, then this is what to do. If you're not, then it might still be OK, or it might actually be terrible advice.

Unfortunately it's a rather complex issue.

At the end of the day, it's best to let the women decide whether or not you're rejected. Don't do their work for them. Calibrate from there.

[–]LuvBeer 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Meh. I saw some skinny weirdo approach two smoking 18 yos cold on the street and hold their attention for half an hour. Not saying it would be my approach, but a big personality will beat muscles any day. I work out because I don't have that great a personality.

[–]ItIsMyPrivilege 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would say that a good compromise is getting in the habit of small talk with everyone.

Okay so you're overweight. Learn to be outgoing. You don't have to be thinking in terms of approaching, just learn how to talk to people around you. You would be surprised how girls will start entering your frame when you get used to meeting people ugly, pretty, dudes, chicks, whoever.

This is a way to work on social skills while lifting. Getting used to talking to people you don't know and then transition that to talking to more girls you actually want to bang, versus just talking to people for the sake of making conversation. It turns into the same thing and all you learn to change is how hard you flirt or make yourself available in a sexual way.

[–]epixs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was on the opposite end and agree. Was muscular, tall, and good looking as fuck but had no social skills. What I did and this might help others, is just go cold turkey in to the deep end of the pool.

I got a job as a bouncer and just learned how people socalized and how charasmatic people acted. I then started reading books on being able to socalize well like how to win influential people and others. Used that and start practcing on every person I could find.

1 year later I can talk to anyone as long as I want. People hit me up for shit since I'm fun and I gotta say it was all because of practice. Practice, practice, practice. I even hit up on fat chicks, just to test how they reacted to certain things I would use on other chicks I actually wanted to fuck.

[–]truchisoft 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've started with the RP over a year ago now, and I have been doing some exercising since then, mind you, I couldn't get to gym, yet because I work+study from 07 to 23, but i did begin with the startbodyweight.com program my gains are great but I am not jacked yet.

Last month I have been noticing some extra IOIs from more and more girls, it seems the compound result from everything I am doing is starting to show, and I am seeing myself prettier in the mirror (flat tummy, not ripped, just flat, 23% bwf according to my wii fit) this also gives me more confidence and I am starting to be bolder (not that I wasn't just that... well you know)...

So I completely agree with both points of view, you need to go out there, but you also need to feel yourself good enough to fight it.

[–]McLarenX 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure. Maybe what he was suggesting was perhaps adding this in halfway through monk when your confidence begins to build and overall SMV is on the upward trend. I do believe it can be beneficial to take small steps to reduce your anxiety level during monk. Social anxiety can be very crippling and overcoming it is a journey in and of itself.

[–]NawtVolkishEnuf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For the majority of guys, Monk Mode is going to set you further back IMO.

Unless you are fat (BMI >28ish and don't lift), bad acne, don't take care of your hair/beard/appearance, and/or seriously deformed in the face, plenty of women find you attractive enough as it is.

Once you hit the baseline of attractiveness, your social skills and general connections matter a lot more than tweaking yourself to be perfect. Let's say you're an average looking, skinny-fat, shy/anti-social guy. If you go Monk Mode for 2-3 months to start lifting, you're just going to end up a stronger, anti-social guy.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, but remember that you need to be on the ice to even take a shot in the first place. And meeting people casually and then being introduced to friends and acquaintances of friends will ALWAYS be easier than approaching people on the street.

Getting comfortable and having social proof >>>>> doing StrongLifts for 2 months and getting an actor's haircut.

Meeting lots of women trumps any aspect of "game" that you could read about on the internet, and there is NO substitute for a solid social circle.

[–]anibustr 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I'm an attractive 19 year old guy that is too afraid to even sign up for gym membership. I've had zero game so far. During high school I had rejected so many girls' flirty approaches just because I was too afraid to start a conversation with them. I've only texted to girls, could never speak properly face to face. It was really hard for me to get a group of friends but least I've actually managed it.

I've realised that I have social anxiety a year ago. Since I'm not much of a talker, I make good observations about people. In time, this made me discover the TRP truths and made me think that I can't be the only one figuring this out. So with some search I've learned about TRP. This happened 2 months after I've learned what social anxiety is. Since then I read 1 or 2 TRP posts everyday and this has really changed my mentality.

Like a month ago I decided to put an end to this fear of interacting with people, and even going out. I checked the socialanxiety subreddit but wasn't really convinced or motivated. Seeing a post like this on TRP, which is full of people that I strongly share the view on life, has just done it for me. So I just wanted to thank you.

[–]PedroIsWatching 6 points7 points  (0 children)

[–]AtlasAtlasAtlas 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Being scared of hot girls comes form the fact that their beauty is what you don't see in your self.

[–]flyercomet 4 points5 points  (1 child)

"Can I pee in your butt?"

Can just asking this get you arrested? I know some types call the police for less. I'm amused and dig the theory as someone who has overcome many social anxiety hurdles but still has a ways to go. I can just see myself with a shiteating grin, "Yes officer I did ask that woman if I could pee in her butt. My therapist recommended it".

[–]Trpidation 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This is excellent, it gets at the very thing that's holding back my progress. I'd like to see a more in depth analysis of each step, but for now this is great. I'll be referring to this often. Thanks.

[–]Dustin_Bromain 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Rejection is to be expected. I even look forward to it. Why? Because it tells me that I need to keep improving myself. Lift more weights, come up with better openers; etc etc. I recently had a night out where I didn't get rejected at all. Every girl I approached gave up their number. And guess what, that night sucked. There was no challenge. Without challenge, we cannot strive to achieve and become better men. Rejection is a good thing. It desensitizes you and tells you that you have more work to do. Believe me, getting blown out of the water and then having the girl right after that absolutely love me feels a thousand times more satisfying than just getting two numbers in a row. This is just how I deal with it. Other approaches to dealing with rejection must be just as effective as mine.

[–]ColonelMitchell 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I had mild social anxiety all the way up until junior year of high school. I set my mind to it and overcame it, and now I'm way more confident and happy. I still feel it come up from that dark spot in my mind though. Irrational thoughts such as "Is she talking to me just because she pities me?". When I catch myself doing this I have to recalibrate and remember why I'm awesome and people like me.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Also try meditation. Working out your body is not going to change your brain. Meditation is literally working out your brain.

[–]rpscrote 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Jump from 2 to 3 is absurdly huge.

Add 2.1) Make normal small talk with someone who is obligated to small talk with you or who you have an acquaintance relationship with -- co-workers, teachers, cashier. "Crazy weather out there." "Pretty busy." to Cashier: "Have you ever tried this brand of pita chip, its super good"

2.2) Make normal small talk with someone who is not obligated to talk to you but easy to talk to. Approach old people for this. Old people love socializing and will almost never reject someone trying to talk to them. Go to Bingo night and ask the person sitting next to you stuff. If they're old ask them about when they were young. Listen. Prod for more. This is socializing. Ask old dudes about their favorite car when they were young.

2.3) Make normal small talk with girls, non sexual. Just talking to girls makes you realize theyre normal people. Beyond that, you figure out girls actually are 99% of the time boring people. You realize (if you're actually self actualizing and having a great life) that your life is more interesting and better than theirs. You realize, damn, I actually am the one bringing value here, not them...

THEN move to 3.

[–]DigitalMining 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This is absolute gold. I'm about to embark on a year long (or more) working holiday in Australia and part of the reason is to escape my comfort zone and develop myself further.

Will be sure to save this and more importantly, practice it.

[–]grngr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Excellent contribution. Thank you.

[–]Daisy_DukeNukem 1 point2 points  (0 children)

THere are many groups (through Meetup, Facebook, Skout, etc.) that you cna use to meet likeminded guys to be your wingman and practice game. GAMING ALONE IS INEFFECTIVE if you are a novice. Learn from those more experienced than you and go out of your comfort zone. Learn to wing your bro, jump a grenade while he talks to the hot friend, navigate logistics to pull a girl back to your place, and coordinate with your wing to even pull 2 sets. It's all about practice, but sometimes teachers are your best resource.

[–]FunkyMonkeyAssassin2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Red Pill is a group that aims to benefit men and tends to project the image that we are the top percentile of men when in reality, we are lost, broken and in need of guidance right from the baby steps.

[–]chkethley 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Working social jobs helps tremendously. Just work a job where you have to talk to many people each day. Work at the front desk in your gym. Work the cash register. You can develop your social skills and an extremely rapid rate.

[–]MyReddit4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You just need to get out there and do it.

When I was in high school and early college, I would get so nervous before going to a party I would almost puke. Even though I had a big social group, I only felt comfortable if I was the de-facto center of attention. Anything else felt like foreign territory and made me extremely anxious.

I realized I needed to change, and started saying yes to every social invite. Now, I can't believe I used to be a wreck before hopping in the car.

[–]jekosnejev 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a man, who is sort of midway on his RP journey, I've already been following a lot of your advice. Still, thank you for your quality post. I've been suffering from severe SA and depression since my early adolescence and, thankfully, it has subsided significantly, but not without tremendous effort and an iron will for change. Yes, men like me exist, and trust me, life with SA feels like raging hell. It's hard and it hurts, and it will hurt you more, the older you are, because your inability to attract women will destroy your ego. And no, you can't see a fucking therapist, those are for women and children - men are simply expected to be strong. I can't stress this enough though, DESENSITIZATION is key. So fucking do something, go out, get dressed, get a new haircut, force yourself to hold eyecontact with everyone, get shredded and worship at the iron temple. Ever since I've started squatting, EVERYTHING has become better. Anyway, sorry for the rant, it's just that this post hit a little closernto home than expected.

[–]haxurmind 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another means of garnering public exposure to people is to volunteer at a non-for-profit public place.

No pressure to deliver or meet KPI criteria like in your run of the mill customer service/sales position, volunteer hosts would generally appreciate the free labor while you work on your anxiety and it is a more controlled/scripted environment than approaching strangers out of the blue in other public areas.

I'd recommend the above as a better foundation than your number 1 point as it creates a positive feedback loop; making you less awkward when you work on your anxiety by expanding it to people you randomly meet to and fro the volunteer work place (step 1.5 to 2) before ultimately people in general in other public environments.

This also removes tension that someone will approach you and have you removed from a venue because your anxiety is making people in a public space uncomfortable.

Confidence building also occurs with a mix of skills building and pride when producing good results for the non for profit, and consider yourself as having aced at this step if you provide additional skills/services (in house IT Tech is an easy starting point) and generate a small amount of income beyond the scope of other volunteer duties/tasks.

Finally; having the right mentor will ensure you don't stray on your path of overcoming social anxiety, as it means your less likely to give up on the attempt by having the additional source of feedback and feeling valued/depended on by others (personal theory: the male drive to provide for others being a deep motivator).

TL/DR: Check out local non for profit small businesses for volunteer opportunities. Finding the right one with a co operative boss/mentor will yield greater returns than trying to change things on your own.

[–]OptiLaSeR 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just do Simple 30 .

Its a 30 day challenge , with each day a challenge . (and an extra challenge each day if you wanna go further ) . Each day will be getting hard , but whatever the OP described , its the same with a lot more details and what to be done , But It'll give you all the social interactions , pickups and advice needed to eliminate social anxiety completely .

For example , the day 1 challenge is just to call some coffee shop and tell them a joke . (Hard mode - ask them a joke in return) .

Day X - Go out and say hi five to 5 people . Day X - Go out and make eye contact with at least 5 people and smile . Day X - Do pushups in public and approach just after it .

Blah , blah , But it keeps on increasing the difficulty . Its a great way to desensitize . I'm planning to start this after my exams !

[–]Sebsebzen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Desensitization is not actually the same as unlearning phobias. You merely create new neural networks that repress the fear response. However, many people experience fear relapses after a while. Actually there is a more promising way to deal with social anxiety -- Expose yourself to a fear inducing situation and then disrupt memory reconsolidation. There are two known substances that are currently studied in this context: Propanolol (Beta blocker) and D-Cycloserine (antibiotic).


[–]WarmApfelPi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP, I just had an epiphany. Your method of dealing with this like sink or swim, but I just figured out my underlying issue with anxiety. I don't have a default way of treating people. When I'm around someone I know, I already know how to treat them, and things are smooth, but when I don't, I don't have a foundation to begin interacting. If there's a friend and a stranger, I treat the stranger as the friend does to a degree until I have a basis of my own to use. Beginning an interaction with a stranger without that base to start, it's like someone dropping me in front of a jet engine and saying rebuild it. I just look at it like a deer in the headlight because I don't know where to start. I have to choose how I'm going to treat all strangers to overcome my anxiety.

[–]augizzz999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Idk about the second one http://imgur.com/gFCGkrE

[–]ShounenEgo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Go into a public place where you can find people walking around, such as a university campus or downtown sidewalk. You are going to follow these three simple steps: Walk, hold eye contact, smile. As you walk and a woman is walking towards you, look at her eyes. DO NOT LOOK AWAY. You may feel intensely uncomfortable, but hold eye contact, and hold a smile.

No girls look back at me yet. Guess I need to work on myself more.

[–]Upvote_To_The_Left 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here's an incredibly interesting video of Phillip Zambardo doing a short but very insightful ted talk. The demise of guys.


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)


very relevant video I believe

[–]Moldy_Gecko 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I get social anxiety or approach anxiety I don't get laid. After not getting laid for a little while I go into IDGAF mode (because I'm already NOT getting laid). This pretty much triggers the "Fuck it, who cares" thing in my head and I start approaching again and getting laid again.

This is probably how Recovering Betas (Prior Alphas) will go through it. However, I could see someone with REAL social anxiety disorder or something having a very difficult time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP, is there some similar way to fight fear?

[–]trauma_gland 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP, I"m assuming you wrote this out of experience. I'm a dude who has pretty mild anxiety but my biggest issue with it is that it comes in waves. I'm in college and what I've noticed the last three years is that I'll start a semester off being a super chatty, confident dude with hardly any social anxiety. As the semester rolls on (all three years) I'll get involved with a woman, things go sour, and my confident goes way down and anxiety goes way up. Since finding TRP, I'm realizing I gave women way too much influence in my life and put way too much emphasis on those relationships. But it's just really frustrating that my confidence/anxiety goes on this roller coaster and each time I've had to start from scratch to build myself up again.

I'm looking for lasting confidence and to get rid of this anxiety for good. I know this starts with not putting the pussy on the pedestal and not giving girls such a large emotional investment. Have you gone through any similar experience like this?

I'm in the process right now of working myself back up again after stagnating and losing a girl I was way too invested in. I want this climb to the top to be different though, I want to stay on top of the mountain this time. Any advice?

[–]rocketace8 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thanks to all here for the posts - in a similar boat and am trying to self help

[–]TheMGhandi -1 points0 points  (3 children)

I prefer a more positive approach, instead of using a crippling label. Lacking in Psychopathy, renders one inable to execute his desirable task. By increasing this function, you can have all the perks of being a psychopath without actually being one.

[–]icecow 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That wasn't coherent enough. Readers could only get the gist.

[–]TheMGhandi 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Narcissism is the fuel, Machiavellianism is the strategy and Psychopathy is the execution. Many people lack stoicism (psychopathy), so their strategy (mach) and confidence (narc) is useless.

Parents and teachers strive to make children similar in their personalities because it's easier to deal with. Rarely will they encourage the development of those in their care. They want you to conform, simply out of laziness. Victims of this will never trust themselves and lack stoicism.

Now, where does this lead us? We have been brainwashed into thinking our intuition or thoughts are wrong, so we rationalise them. For example, pulling women. If a hb10 gives us multiple IOIs, we'll rationalise how she's just teasing and completely distrust our intuition or thoughts. That is the modus operandi of most people. Then you have a chick giving you IOIs that looks like someone you banged before (comfort-zone), so you trust your intuition or thoughts and act on it. Finally there's a low smv woman who indicates attraction but you reject her but completely trust your intuition or thoughts. There's no rationalizing because you're too good for her and she isn't worth thinking about. In the hb10 scenario you would say they lack confidence (narcissism) but really it's the inability to destroy limiting emotions (stoicism/psychopathy, she seems too hot for me, if I had abs I'd totally talk to her).

I'd highly recommend taking a [MBTI quiz](www.16personalities.com) to find out your dominant tool for processing information: Is it Introverted/Extroverted and is it Intuition/Thinking/Sensing/Feeling.

Trust yourself. Stop getting in the way and just do it.

[–]icecow 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That was thought out and well written. I'll be thinking about that.

[–]MrRexels -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Found an old woman sitting in a bench yesterday. I stood still and stared at her eyes deeply for 5 minutes straight while barely blinking.

She stood up and walked away holding tight on to her purse. Did I that social battle?

[–]MoneyStatusLooks 0 points0 points [recovered]

I am all for advocating drugs. Down vote me all you want. Drugs are technology and technology can be used for positive or negative purposes.

I have been using Phenibut, from once a month to twice a week for the last 6-months. I use it to take the edge off and perform well without feeling any anxiety. On top of that, situations that would have scared the shit out of me before, no longer scare me, even when I've not taken the drug.

It's worth researching if you have issues in this department. Don't touch it though if you are going to be irresponsible or have addiction issues. It can be abused, much in the same way Alcohol or any drug for that matter can be abused.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Don't touch it though if you are going to be irresponsible or have addiction issues.

The problem is that if you are an addictive personality, you won't know until it's too late.

Source: recovering addict

[–]MoneyStatusLooks -2 points-2 points [recovered]

Addictive personality is just another name for lack of willpower. Sorry, if that sounds offensive to you, but it's true.

Most people will know they lack willpower if they have got addicted to lesser substances like Alcohol, Nicotine or Caffeine and cannot stop. Or they have trouble with discipline, sticking to a diet, training routine etc. IMHO Phenibut is no more addictive than any of the substances listed above if you take them it in moderation, however some will disagree with me on that. That has been my personal experience though.

[–]larrythetomato 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay replace addictive personality with lack of discipline. That doesn't change the point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry, if that sounds offensive to you, but it's true.

No need to apologize friend. It is not offensive, but simply incorrect.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (2 children)

I don't know how to answer this. I noticed that the Red Pill Community is obsessed with giving advice. But what about some action?

I mean, real action, such as challenging openly the establishment.

I've been reading the Red Pill for a while, but to be honest, I am beginning to get tired. Too much talking but very little action.

[–]ARUKET 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What? Red Pill isn't revolutionaries, it's a community of likeminded people who share stories, advice, and commentary. Am I misinterpreting you?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"unionized" refusal to get married and force things to change for future generations is about as good as you can expect. you aren't going to challenge the status quo with how plugged in the world is right now