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Blue Pill ExampleNeil Strauss, author of "The Game", prostrates himself before womankind and begs for forgiveness. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Summary

Neil Strauss, author of "The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists" has decided that he needs to absolve himself of the "sins" he committed against womankind by conducting an interview with The Guardian and advertising his Beta Bux status, throwing other would-be PUAs under the bus, and trying to write off natural attraction as "sex addiction".

Body

Neil's interview with The Guardian confirms what many of us knew about him and pick-up artists for the longest time - the man, despite being able to bed women, is firmly ensconced within a blue-pill point of view. He needs their approval, and without it, is unable to value himself.

The story starts off with how he has tried to distance himself from the days of his book which sold 2.5m copies, and pseudo-glorifies how before writing it he was a kissless virgin ("he’s a husband, and a father, and stupidly in love on both fronts").

We then shift to how he doesn't hit on an attractive young woman in her 20s and how reformed he is because now only "interesting" people grab his attention.

The Guardian's next step is to emasculate him and imply that he was mentally ill for being a Beta attracted to women presumably out of his league as he is "no switchboard-illuminating beauty himself. 'Shorter than I’d like to be,' he wrote in The Game. 'My eyes are small and beady... To say my hair is thinning would be an understatement.'" and also that "ten years on, it is difficult to read this without anxiety. In an age of consent lessons on campus and school education on the harmful effects of pornography, the conversation has changed. So has Strauss. He tells me that, without knowing it at the time, he was a pretty troubled man when he wrote The Game"

Strauss now begins his apology in earnest by claiming that he feels "a healthy sort of shame" at publishing his book a decade ago and admitting that he "would sometimes browse mail-order-bride catalogues" (See how much of a loser I am?! See?! See?!). Next, he admits to banging his girlfriend's best friend in a parking lot and thereby allowing his bitch to bully him into treatment for "sex addiction". He goes into rehab and "discovers" that he has "anxiety syndrome, depressive disorder, two forms of sexual disorder and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder" (cough bullshit). How was it decided that he has sex addiction? Well he masturbates and looks at porn you see....

Strauss and the girlfriend who forced him into rehab are now married. He's her Beta Bux as she's well past her expiration date, and needed to get him nailed down. He spends most of his time apologizing apparently. To whit - "I think that a lot of guys who read The Game, they think that they’re fooling or tricking women. But most women are smart enough to know exactly what you’re doing. They just might like you enough to go along with it. I think one of the misconceptions is that someone else can be tricked into doing something they don’t want to." We here at TRP know that that's the salve he applies to his sense of Beta Pride in order to convince himself that NAWALT.

Conclusion

  • Neil Strauss never swallowed The Red Pill, but instead did what Betas do and developed a "formula". In this case, his simulates Alpha-ness. Women flocked to him, and, disgusted and unable to deal with the true nature of "woman", he retreated into apology and prostration. Now he is married and has a kid and presumably expects not to be fed into the grinder when his usefulness expires.

  • Pick-up artistry is fundamentally Blue Pill, because you are staking your self-worth on female approval. Strauss never moved past that mindset and now feels like men discovering how to be attractive for women are horrible people for "tricking women".

  • Take the Red Pill and you won't spend your life apologizing for wanting to have sex.


[–][deleted] 330 points331 points  (67 children)

Strauss never fixed himself. Sex with women is not a panacea. If you have fundamental issues within your self image, and you do not take steps to address them, no amount of sex will fix you. You'll just be a neurotic sexual machine full of shame. To be a man, you have to embrace and understand the totality of your loneliness. You must become intimate with your fears and failures. You must uninvest your perception of self from your sexual conquests. Guys have been well trained to be shamed by their sexual failures, it keeps them timid and afraid. It keeps the shame alive. A man needs to be able to prosper in famine to find abundance. Strauss seems like a man who could never suffer famine shamelessly. Better to carry your scars with you and cry about them than embrace your entire masculinity.

[–][deleted] 101 points102 points  (41 children)

That's the difference between PUA and TRP.

[–][deleted] 60 points61 points  (27 children)

too true. that other dude "mystery" was just as bad of a beta, got oneitis, and then went superbeta when she (obviously) eventually left him.

and while strauss is a beta, i cant help but think that he got on his knees to suck "modern feminism"s dick in pursuit of the almighty $, i mean that book sale money must be drying up by now. i wouldnt be surprised to see him write an equivalent book for women about how they can "play men" or some shit.

[–]50-cal 36 points37 points  (15 children)

How many paragraphs can you really write on having a pussy?

I mean I'd read it to find out, but seriously, how many paragraphs?

[–]inu51kza 48 points49 points  (6 children)

it's not just about getting laid.

if you're a girl that's a 6 you want male orbiter friends no lower than a 7 because why would you spend time with ugly people, you want atleast 8s as fuckbuddies theyre stupI'd pis but hung and hot. you want to date 9s. a bunch of them with emotion and stories and heart break to give your love life and history a rich hbo tv show level tapestry. eventually you want to find a 10. unicorn.

that's the dream this generation of girls has been sold.

complete independence financial and emotional and sexual.

with no consequences because this is just the path fate is leading you towards. then you get to your early 30s settle on a 7 beta who's sweet and put in the time. you emasculated him and berate him and gossip with your friends about hunky fuckbuddies and exes in the past but how they were too unstable to be husbands and fathers with their cheating and selfish independence.

a book on how to bag the perfect man who is hot, hung, rich, does something thats cool not just something that makes money, is popular and has a great personality, is smart and wise, intimidates you with perfection but is perfectly understanding and secretly would throw it all away to be a slob with you so you feel good and never have to improve, gets you completely emotionally and sexually without having any weird kinks you don't like or any serious emotional frailty or vulnerability that shatters the image.

and doesn't judge your whoreish past, emotional hangups amd baggage from many failed relationships, lack of value, lack of homemaking or maternal instinct etc.

that could and would sell very well. I'm certain there are about 30 well selling books like that written every year.

[–]Helmut_Newton 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You've just described every "romance" novel ever written.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Step 1 be hot

Step 2 let yourself be picked up by the hottest/richest guy that you choose

Can i have a best seller yet?

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Now add 400 pages of useless fluff that includes words like "empowering" and "modern".

[–]2comment 8 points9 points  (0 children)

How many paragraphs can you write on having a pussy?

Tracy Clark-Flory and Aurora Snow have made entire journalistic careers on just that.

[–]1Paid_Internet_Troll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How many paragraphs can you really write on having a pussy?

Depends. How much you paying per word? ;)

[–]SwoLean 14 points14 points [recovered]

The majority of dudes who get into PUA suffer from mental issues, this isn't a big surprise. If you've ever taken the time to hang out with "lair" types you'd know it rather quickly.

A lot of the guys I know who were running PUA companies changed over to making better men, albeit not nessecarily the TRP way, or more interesting men. A lot of them caught on to the creepy mental factor and felt their money was tainted and they didn't want to be associated with it.

At the end of the day, its a starting point for a lot of men. Not everyone can find the TRP or other....alternative....resources. Don't be so quick to judge. A real man will hold judgement and choose to lead or mentor.

[–]inu51kza 40 points41 points  (6 children)

pua is like lifting.

it teaches you social skills and how to get laid. the gym teaches you how to get muscly and fit.

if you have body dysmorphia lifting will not fix the fundamental underlying mental issues. pua will not fix your insecurities and anxieties and need for validation and feelings of inadequacy if you're not self aware of these problems.

pick up is a supremely useful tool. when like mystery you think it's the ultimate solution in life you can be very dissapointmented by the end game.

just look at how miserable women and gays are. two groups who can have sex at the click of an app.

it's a fix to a problem. not to life.

[–]SwoLean 4 points4 points [recovered]

Up vote.

I agree. I was much more succinct in my response, and you've given a decent allegory to the issue. We are most def on the same page.

Sadly, most who get into PUA have mental illness. If they have strong mentors, they will figure this out and correct. I've seen about a 50-50% turn out this far among people I know. Personally I encourage it as much as I can. However, it takes tact and skill (which I'm still fine tuning) to bring someone into that realm.

[–]inu51kza 10 points11 points  (4 children)

yes and no. in all honesty who doesn't suffer from mental illness. who hasn't been crippled with depression curled up in a corner numb. who hasn't dealt with anxiety that cripples them. grief that destroys all sense of purpose.

I appreciate recognising mental illness and recognising chemical imbalances (I appreciate it's not terribly scientific nomenclature but you get my point)

but people in their strive to recognise mental illness have gone overboard with it and turned it into a bogeyman.

quite frankly you don't have time to be depressed or have an existential crisis or a need for validation in the trenches or the slums.

there are sustainable cures to it and there are easy patch jobs to distract while it fixes itself.

I bet pickup fixes a lot more people who enter with mental illnesses than it hurts. or atleast makes them cognisant of the nature of the problem so they atleast have a diagnosis to find a cure for.

[–]chaseemall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you remember the post on confessing your beta sins? I think that's what he's talking about. Rooting out the shit that causes you problems and finding ways to fix yourself.

Self diagnosis of DSMV disorders has been a crutch to many and has ironically resulted in these self-diagnosers crippling themselves psychologically.

Edit: a word

[–]Abreseyes 1 points1 points [recovered]

That first paragraph, are you being serious? It seems like I look around and everyone has their shit together or at least seem satisfied with their lot.

Am I being naive?

[–]inu51kza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

you're being naive. everyone suffers.

the fact that you're on here means you're more contemplative than most. which is good for your soul but this extra time spent thinking instead of doing like a lot of people means unlike most you dwell on your problems longer than them.

the consequences of these long spells of being in that state of depression etc compound and spiral out of control.

it's an inadvertent side affect of being an over thinker. most people can't sustain a mood for more than a few hours good or bad. most people on here can't shake off stuff and let it go for days weeks months longer.

which has its benefits when used right. it means we have vision ambition and greater perspective. you just have to fight against the clear problems of your mindset too of dithering and introversion

[–]kinklianekoff 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Good call. It seems his image need fixing before the book launch. And seeing as his angle is repentant sinner nibbling on The Guardian's tit, the book will likely pander to liberal feminists.

[–]1seenoeval 25 points26 points  (2 children)

When I was in an internet advertising industry, I would meet those PUA guys at conferences all the time, including some asshole Mehoe? or some shit like that who did nothing but make us all embarrassed for him all night as a large group of us went club to club in NYC.

They were all the most beta, insecure losers I had ever met, dressed like fucking retards, constantly trying to prove their worth not only to women but the men, doing stupid fucking magic tricks, being obnoxious, it was cringetastic.

TRP teaches the only true and best form of PUA, being a fucking high value man that doesn't need to do magic tricks or waste his time trying to amuse a woman.

I did however like one Strauss's other books, "Emergency"

[–]howard333 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Went out with a local lair this year. Friend of mine knew them at them at a festival where I number-kiss-closed a used-up Netflix-and-wine HB6 yuppie (different story). They observed me doing this, said they liked my "hustle" and gave tactical suggestions after (very weird encounter, but I'm used to stranger things in this city). Invited me to their FB lair, fairly active, couple hundred members. I'd dabbled on rare occasions like that evening, read a lot of the mid-2000's stuff, was excited to see a group dedicated to it in action. I know the ideas here came out of that scene and I was just starting to read TRP then.

In short, they were mostly out of shape stoned weirdo faggots. Not approaching frequently and just talking to each other, trying to AMOG each other with verbatim RSDTyler (popular guru) lines, the fake alpha stuff that people describe with them, also cult-like behavior regarding the local gurus or wannabe gurus. Zero reason to roll with those people, even if want to get good at being a carousel clown for some ONS.

[–]Uptonogood 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That's what PUA resumes itself a lot of times: How to be the best court jester.

[–]Redasshole 7 points8 points  (1 child)

To me the difference between PUA and TRP is that PUA focuses on creating the illusion of a value which is not there while TRP focuses on developing real value.

But you know, people would rather buy 500$ e-books than going to the gym because, you know, on the short term they have to make the choice between 1) reading and mental masturbating or 2) get up and bust their ass off.

[–]Cmon_Just_The_Tip 3 points4 points  (5 children)

I have a very funny anecdote about this.

A few years ago when I was in the Amazon jungle drinking ayahuasca (Google it if you don't know what it is) I actually came across these 2 PUAs. I had seen their videos before. One of them was Sacha something, funny dude. Does all these silly wacky approaches but rocked it. The other guy was this aussie fella James something. Sort of more refined elegant type, very stylish, put lots of work in his appearance, more of an ice cold too-cool-for you attitude.

Well back then I was relatively naive and thought wow man these guys are boss, they really know what they're doing, they travel the world teaching this shit.

I never expected to run into them in the fucking Amazon jungle doing extreme psychedelics but when I did I was stoked. I was sure that being so 'brave' and confident on video meant they really were like that in real life. Fucking grade A troopers that would crush ayahuasca sessions for breakfast.

But again, ayahuasca is nothing to fuck with or take lightly. It's not a magic potion that turns you into superman while you speak with butterflies. While that might happen too, you will more likely experience potentially lethal amounts of emotional pressure and confusion and sickness. You will go in the basement alone with your darkest fears, and battle with everything your soul has. Maybe you'll come out victorious.

I have met some of the bravest people I can recall, some of which I was HONORED of having shared sessions with and will remember them and their stories forever.

The 2 PUAs were none of that. One session was enough to absolutely shatter them and rob them of all the confidence they thought they had. Biggest pussies. After a week I ran into them in town, shells of their former video personas, thousand yard stared weak boys. Welcome to reality bitch! Ha.

In all seriousness I sincerely hope that experience taught them a lesson and they rebuilt themselves stronger going back to square one.

Amongst the things I understood that month is that there are no shortcuts. True confidence and strength is built with grit and humbleness. Never watched/read anything pua related since then

[–]QueuePLS 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I think PUA has changed a lot, especially after The Game came out. They changed their style so that they are now doing natural game, which is pretty much just showing up as yourself, but still owning, because you are comfortable with who you are. That's gotta be RP right? Those two you met probably went with the same old shit that is being portrayed in The Game.

Also, cool that you did ayahuasca. Would you say you came out as a better person?

[–]Cmon_Just_The_Tip 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Well then there's no point in the whole PUA thing, you go back to square one be yourself be confident. Which has a lot of merit in some ways, but does not sell seminars or generate $.

People want an easy fix so they're sold weird party tricks by smarter people, giving them the illusion they're owning. It's a market that needs to be catered for.

Personally I don't care at all wether something is rp, pua, nba nfl or whatever. It either makes sense or it doesn't. I could find great insights in a colouring playbook like in an ancient proverb or hitler's gazette or a random internet blog. I don't care for the messenger at all. Content.

( Even though when something like this Neil Strauss debacle happens I have a hard time giving his material credibility. But again, cunts probably just mentally ill, and a broken clock is still right twice a day)

Ayahuasca certainly helped me in coming out as a better person. There was years of ground work behind it though, and the right mindset for it. It helped in putting everything together in one picture.

I think it's possible to get the same results without it. It might just take a little longer, and feel more bland as a consequence. A bit less memorable and crazy. But I know some people that are on the same wavelength if not wiser, that never even smoked pot.

Ayahuasca comes with a lot of risks though. The environment you're in is quite lawless. LOTS of guns, real risk of getting robbed/killed, no phone reception obviously, closest police station 220km of swampy jungle away. And you're a cashed up gringo. You really are at the mercy of other people's kindness so BE NICE to them (which you should be regardless :) )

Greedy shamans that are somehow able to put you into a permanently psychotic mindset or make you sick, and blackmail you ("heal you" with extra sessions $$$$) are out there. I've seen and heard some very, very spooky shit. TRUST your gut feelings, stay alert, calmly but firmly stand up in front of abuse or shady practices, be prepared to walk away if shit feels off. The risks are all part of the experience though. Just know what you're getting into. It might be a very stupid choice according to where you're at in life.

Also, I speak good Spanish. I would have never fucking dreamt of putting myself in that situation if I could not understand what was said around me and communicate effectively

[–]philovivero 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"Just be yourself" never works. PUA is fake-it-til-you-make-it. You gotta start somewhere.

[–]1OneRedYear 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have a friend who does that once a year. From the stories he told me ayahuasca is no joke. It did help him kick heroin and deal with his inner demons, so for him it was worth it.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (4 children)

To be a man, you have to embrace and understand the totality of your loneliness. You must become intimate with your fears and failures. You must uninvest your perception of self from your sexual conquests. Guys have been well trained to be shamed by their sexual failures, it keeps them timid and afraid.

There's been a lot of crap on this sub recently, but this more than makes up for it.

[–]inu51kza 22 points23 points  (3 children)

sexual failure keeping men timid and afraid is so incisive.

such a huge reason why we invest so much effort into learning to get women. it's one of those things that gives you a pass in life. yes I'm stupid/broke/fat/depressed and unstable but did you see those 10s I've pulled this month?

god forbid you're a sexual failure and chime up with any sort of arrogance. when I've had a dry spell for a couple of months I often do find myself self censoring and dialing back the swagger.

the importance of compartmentalising sex is so important to being a man. getting consistent, high quality ass is not a fix to your basic existential and psychological problems. it just fixes your most basic animal urges - like hunger and thirst trivial but feel like the most pressing needs by sone margin when you're deprived.

once you fuck and have a snack you still have to deal with your ambitions skills shortage lack of purpose and motivation blahblahblah.

tying so much into such a basic tthing as sex is a fucking disaster to achieving a good life.

[–]LukeMcFuckStick 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Bro. That makes so much fucking sense what you just said.

Edit: I'm being serious.

[–]rllngstn818 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Sex with women is not a panacea. If you have fundamental issues within your self image, and you do not take steps to address them, no amount of sex will fix you. You'll just be a neurotic sexual machine full of shame. To be a man, you have to embrace and understand the totality of your loneliness. You must become intimate with your fears and failures. You must uninvest your perception of self from your sexual conquests. Guys have been well trained to be shamed by their sexual failures, it keeps them timid and afraid. It keeps the shame alive. A man needs to be able to prosper in famine to find abundance.

So perfectly stated. But would you elaborate a bit more on "A man needs to be able to prosper in famine to find abundance."

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Regardless of whether you're getting pussy vs not, you should be mentally and physically sound.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yeah, clarification needed.

[–]inu51kza 7 points8 points  (0 children)

regardless of how much you're getting laid (feast or famine) your life goes on. you shouldn't need to be getting laid to give you the confidence to kill it in other areas of life.

some men can do this but do it in secret keeping alive the shame. at some point the fear of being caught out becomes unbearable.

to suffer famine shamelessly is to be able to put it out there that you've been having no luck sexually for a while but it hasn't affected the rest of your life one bit.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's merely a reminder of reality, especially for most men. We, as the disposable sex, are much more likely to experience social isolation or, failing that, some degree of social ostracism, especially in terms of intersexual relations(hips). The determinant factor in success or failure is not your circumstances, it's whether you are able to nurture the mind set of a winner. Lottery winners go bankrupt. Pseudo alpha males get married and whipped back to beta. You can't succeed by the fluctuating social circles you fall into. You cannot fix yourself at the bottom of 1000 vaginas. Everything is in your head. Change your mind and you can be the change you need. You can penetrate every facet of your life and prevail, irrespective of your starting point. But you can always fall back into the barrel if you feel that you belong to it.

[–]skoobled 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Right on brother. Define yourself by your sexual conquests and you still belong to women

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (5 children)

That's why Mystery almost killed himself over a girl. All they learned were tips and tricks to bed the ladies.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (4 children)

to be fair, they didn't learn, they developed.

I give it it's due, it was the foundation that RP was built on. If they didn't figure out how to get laid, and generations down find out it wasn't enough, we wouldn't be here today.

Same as the first cars used a crank, and were largely shit... but because of them ferraris exist today

[–]TheDialecticParadox 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I've always found PU to be a temporary red-pill. It teaches you about displaying social value, abundance mentality, and dread, but at the end of the day, it's all pretend. Betas don't have any of those things in their arsenal because they haven't worked on themselves enough to internalize the mentality and confidence that attracts women in the first place. It's why PUA doesn't really work. Becoming an alpha prepares you for any situation with a woman, because you know that you have plenty of other women to choose from if you fuck up. Pretending to be an alpha will ultimately backfire when something unexpected that isn't covered in your PU DVD's gets thrown your way, like a barrage of shit tests, with a side comfort testing and a sprinkle of dread game.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Inner game was a thing in the 90s, it just wasn't as fun, so no one talked about it.

Like I said, incremental improvement.. There was no rp in the 90s, and gamesmanship wasn't batshit yet

[–]inu51kza 3 points4 points  (1 child)

it's not even that basic. as far as a manual for actual game goes a lot of it is still pretty good even if the product as a whole is dated. easily the best outer game guide available.

it's marketed as a starter system. you know when you're learning a skill you emulate first copying the greats to learn fundamentals.

then you try to be creative - you aren't meant to run those routines or live that lifestyle or have those thought patterns forever. you take the foundational skillset and build on it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I worry that if I get single, and try running a fine on a girl that she's going to laugh...

I might as well just talky about stuff I read on-the-line.

[–]Daily_Dosage_3 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Spot on. Strauss seems like a nerd who learned how to hack the programming of women, and, yes, he changed himself somewhat in the process. But the changes were parlor tricks of image and sleight of hand.

The best parts of this sub are way beyond getting laid or imagery. We seek growth and lasting change that moves us toward self-actualization.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cover a shit in gold, still a shit. That s what he became.

And to think the guy was my hero before rp...

[–]tedted8888 43 points44 points  (8 children)

If it wasn't for PUA I wouldn't have found the red pill. Theres shitty PUA and shitty red pill posts. David D. started my path. He subsequently went beta, but that doesn't mean some of his ideas aren't complete shit. I'd still recommend his original book (most of his other products were teasers for the next). RSD is still high quality IMO though. Both David D and RSD focus on inner game (psychology) and outer game (techniques). If you ignore the inner game part, you end up like Strauss.

[–][deleted] 6 points6 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]tedted8888 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Mystery method isn't horrible. He did focus on some inner game. I think hes right that most men go friend -> seduce; where he recommends attraction->friendship->seduce. However, his nonsence about constant negging etc can easily be misinterpreted for "tricks".

[–]PedroIsWatching 33 points34 points  (2 children)

One of the most illuminating aspects of his autobiography "The Rules of the Game" was how dysfunctional all the figureheads of PUA were. Mystery (the man initially portrayed as being the most in control and the most alpha) had multiple nervous breakdowns over the course of the book and got terminal oneitis several times. RSD Tyler is portrayed as a borderline psychopath (this one might be embellished by Strauss, he thought Tyler was sabotaging his work) and the older first gen proto-PUAs they all took inspiration from are all broken individuals.

Even the ending of the book has Strauss trying to LTR a rock star chick with red flags aplenty. Honestly after reading it he didn't seem to have any sort of growth or revelation on the nature of women or our roles, it just sort of fizzled out when he realized he had no arc.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That doesn't mean I can't admire them as much as I do. A lot of those PUA's came from ravaged backgrounds and on their own accord from next to no social abilities dedicated themselves to being good with women and making money off of it. All the people who really change this world are a little nuts.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (20 children)

Is it possible that he just wants to sell more copies of the book, or is he just that beta?

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (18 children)

I was kinda thinking the same thing. It's like the EMSK post that sent a shit load of subscribers our way except he's writing it himself. He probably is very beta and PUAs in general are honestly pretty lame with that gynocentric regard but I doubt he's speaking without an agenda here.

[–]notevenatthestart 15 points16 points  (11 children)

Exactly.

Give it a year and he'll have a new book out called The Game II: The Rematch or The Away Game or something stuffed with lots of delicious new controversy for internet feminists and angry PUAs to argue over. There will be blog posts everywhere, sales will soar and yet nothing at all will have been achieved at any point.

Let's be honest: The Game isn't all that interesting anyway, exactly because of what you and some of the other posters have identified. It's not about a way of life like TRP, it's just a long-winded sketch of an algorithm to follow that works some percentage of the time. It's action without understanding.

It's like programming a robot arm to boil an egg. Faintly interesting, but not to be compared with the skill set of a Michelin starred chef.

[–]ChadThundercockII 2 points3 points  (3 children)

He actually does have a new book. It's called The Truth. This whole thing is a marketing strategy.

His new book

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah I mean any publicity is good publicity.

Basically what the sex starved aspiring PUA reads is, "This book allowed me to fuck SO MUCH that I was able to call myself a SEX ADDICT! Plus I fucked my girlfriends best friend. Woe is me."

[–]putinbush10 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Have you got a link to the EMSK post? I wouldnt mind having a look at it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's their top post of all time so easy to find.

[–]cariboo_j 22 points23 points  (5 children)

Not surprised.

The end of the book was him telling his new girlfriend "you are my oneitis" and riding off into the sunset.

[–]Uptonogood 14 points15 points  (3 children)

That book was very entertaining, but really, that ending let a lot to be desired.

[–]this_guy2001 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Hell yes. I was thinking: this is the supposed bible? Garbage.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The success of the book wasn't that it was the panacea to all of your dating and pickup questions, but that it opened up the world of PUA to the reader. It is an easy read and very entertainingly written, and allows your average AFC who always had problems with women to identify with the plight of the writer and the other guys in the book - it's less about its informational value regarding PUA strategies.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's a lot of bullshit in that book. I never undrstood the whole craze about it. I'm never going to bring a bag of tricks to a club just to get with a chick. I was into the book when reading it, but then heard an interview and i heard his voice and the way he talked. -> beta fgt

[–]the99percent1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And she dumped him for that rocker

[–]Asoka11111 57 points57 points [recovered]

tl;dr: read the caps

I... I don't even know what to say to this. Neil Strauss is the reason I even made it this far. When I saw his book somehow made its way onto my computer, I was compelled to read it. I was weak, unsuccessful, anxious. PUA had always been discussed in a derogatory tone, so I took the plunge and prepared to take everything in there with a grain of salt.

Reading his book is what lead me into the rabbit hole that is the manosphere. Reading this book is what prompted me to discover I want more for myself and society was feeding me lie after delicious lie on how to get it. I WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN THE STEPS NECESSARY TO IMPROVE MYSELF IF I HADN'T SEEN AND READ WHAT LIES OUT THERE FOR THE MEN WHO DO.

He dismisses his work because it was written during a troubling time because he is successful now. He forgets that the work he and Mystery did set the stage for Owen and RSD. I'm still not the biggest fan of PUA arm, but I think it was a necessary stepping stone for myself and a lot of struggling young males who needed to make it to supportive communities like this where men can convene and troubleshoot their issues with women, fitness, careers, and other aspects of our lives.

It truly saddens me to see that even the trailblazers and the greatest in the game can fold. I feel heartbroken and disillusioned, like my favorite role model growing up turned out to be a rapist or a heroin addict. Keep you wits about you gentlemen, for we truly have no rock to rest our heads on.

[–][deleted] 40 points40 points

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[–]Asoka11111 7 points7 points [recovered]

I agree, which is why it's so important that Owen broke off from him and Mystery to do RSD. He realized what you are saying; the other two did not, and now they are still broken men on the inside.

[–]TheDialecticParadox 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I've never met Tyler in person but from what I've seen of his RSD vlogs, he seems utterly content with his life. He definitely made the right choice.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]dewbiestep 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, and the blueprint is pretty interesting. Almost no techniques at all; it's all about being yourself, not giving a fuck, going for what you want, and even a bit of spiritual development. "Game" is just a byproduct.

[–]destraht 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I feel heartbroken and disillusioned, like my favorite role model growing up turned out to be a rapist or a heroin addict.

That sort of thing already happened to me and its just how life is now. I was a major pest because my parents divorced when I was 3 and I had a 13 year old brother who roughed me up like I was 8. So I treated the other kids in school like this and it got me in serious trouble and kicked out of a school and two day-cares. So one day care owner took extra care of me and put up with me shit when I was taking full on swings at his balls (and I was a strong and tough 7 year old) and instead of simply booting me he would instead place me in a closed room or his office for timeout space. The super fucked thing is that I know that he treated me in the best possible way but ten years later he was convicted of molesting a girl under his care. He went above and beyond what was necessary.

Anyways, this sort of thing has been the normal for me and I would be less than myself today without other men who took a fall but I know how it goes and I'm just not willing to make the sacrifice. So I left the country because I see how it all plays out and I'm not willing to live in fear. Ironically, I live in Ukraine now.

[–]Knightofthewest 13 points14 points  (2 children)

What you thought Strauss was was something you imagined. You made him an ideal, put him on a pedestal and held him in awe.

The Red Pill teaches never to put anything on a pedestal. Everything can be better, yourself included. Think of it like this: you've lived in a grotto your entire life, until you someday by chance spy a thin sliver of light. You're awestruck, drawn to the light, admire it, it's something you've never seen before, it's the most amazing thing ever... Until you discover the sun.

So don't be sad. Be happy that you know better now than Strauss, that you've actually eclipsed your "childhood" idol and are bettering yourself now in ways Strauss is unable to comprehend.

[–]Asoka11111 4 points4 points [recovered]

I don't necessarily pedestalize him, but I do give him due respect for laying the groundwork. It just shocks me to see someone who was there from nearly the beginning, who saw the need for what he did and innovated to satiate it, turn his back on his own work.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You have to remember that Strauss was, and is, just a journalist. All the knowledge, advice, and philosophy he wrote in his book was given to him by Mystery. The whole reason he wrote The Game was because he was so amazed by Mystery's seminar.

Mystery is the reason you made it this far, not Neil Strauss.

[–]RidleySmith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hold your horses. just because the article implies a great many things... Doesn't mean they're true. Neil mightn't have actually changed THAT much

[–]CalvinHobb3s 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You hit the nail on the head. He's successful now and hasn't remembered his roots. Where he started and why. That hunger is satisfied now and he's left with this abundance of time for introspection mixed fed by feminist propaganda. Complacency is a cultivator of influence.

[–]antidoxdevice 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Goddamn dude try to remember how Machiavellian Neil is then see it from his point of view. Pandering to your audience and all that.

[–]Asoka11111 1 points1 points [recovered]

I thought that at first, but he's doing a little too much prostration for me to think it's for PR reasons. Here's the thing: I never thought of him as a man fixed through PUA. I thought of the outrageous stories in his book as a glimpse into a more interesting life I could have for myself if I got my shit together.

It just sucks to see anyone spill there guys like they're at gunpoint or facing jail time.

[–]antidoxdevice 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was pretty into the pus scene and the drama ( pathetic I know) one of the characters in the book called 26 or Barry kirkey was an rsd instructor who then had a semi successful podcast talked about that while a lot of the stories in the game were exaggerated, Neil also made himself look better then he was by playing up how he had low self esteem and pretending to play the victim when really he knew what was going on the entire time.

Neil is smart, more so then you or I . You also have to spam pr to as many outlets as possible for it to take hold

[–]Lord_NShYH 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I... I don't even know what to say to this. Neil Strauss is the reason I even made it this far.

You idiot. You're the reason you made it this far, not that asshole Strauss.

[–]tio1w 34 points35 points  (11 children)

By opening up his psyche to trained therapists for the first time, Strauss learned he had quite an assortment of mental and emotional conditions. In short order, he was diagnosed with anxiety syndrome, depressive disorder, two forms of sexual disorder and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. “It was like a hammer hitting me on the head,” he says. “I really thought I was normal.”

Psychiatry is currently the most dangerous institution for males and it's going to get worse. A lot worse.

The trend is considering maleness a mental illness and using it to involuntarily commit men.

This will be done under the guise of prevention of killing sprees.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

The Soviet Union used mental health against dissidents.

"If you disagree with us, you must be crazy".

[–]Cum_on_doorknob 3 points4 points  (9 children)

I will say though, I'm in Med school, and med school psychiatry is actually pretty decent. We actually look at Freud and Maslow, and pretty much the point is that sex and power are everything.

[–]2rp_valiant 15 points16 points  (6 children)

I'm sure the theory is sound. However, the practice seems to be labelling male energy as ADHD and medicating young boys, treating being a player as sex addiction, treating aggression/angst as ASPD, so on. Men are being held to a female standard and it's killing us because men and women are so fundamentally different.

[–]tio1w 7 points8 points  (5 children)

I'm sure the theory is sound.

Actually I disagree, but regardless the practice is really bad and in that we agree.

Men are being held to a female standard

It's more than that. Men are being held to a very restrictive standard while women are being held to close to NONE. That's why mothers that kill their children for instance get away with no serious consequences whereas men that are merely attracted to pubescent girls are in for a whole lot of trouble.

Also why female sexual abuse is for the most part considered to be an absurd concept.

[–]2rp_valiant 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Well, in terms of "the theory is sound" I was just getting that side out of the discussion. I actually largely disagree with a lot of psychology and psychoanalysis theory, but I'm not interested in discussing it at this juncture.

What I mean by a female standard is that men are being seen as dysfunctional women. And women are being seen as oppressed no matter how freely they act, so any further acts of outrageous boundary-pushing are just empowerment. I've even read stories about women aborting their babies because they were discovered to be a boy. It's a scary, fucked up world we live in - I don't know how all this has managed to come about in the last 5 years without wider society creating a major backlash.

[–]tio1w 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm not interested in discussing it at this juncture.

Me neither. This post is not the right context.

I don't know how all this has managed to come about in the last 5 years without wider society creating a major backlash.

I suspect it's going to get worse. A lot worse. I hope I'm wrong...

[–]2rp_valiant 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The misandry bubble is still inflating. Washington Post writing an article suggesting we stop putting women in prison, full stop. Buzzfeed and Jezebel are mainstream and are proudly and openly misandrist. The guardian constantly talks about how the patriarchy keeps women down and pushes to imbalance the scale even more in response. News agencies use cases like Elliot Rodger as reasons to crack down on men even more.

It's going to get much worse before it gets better. I do worry that at some point violence might be necessary to reset the balance, but I really hope it doesn't come to that.

[–]tio1w 5 points6 points  (1 child)

If you're in med school then you know that psychiatry is unlike any other specialty.

Almost no lab work and diagnosis is far more subjective than other specialty.

On top of that, with the exception of infectious diseases (quite objective criteria), I can tell any doctor to fuck off and refuse treatment. Not so with psychiatrists.

[–]Cum_on_doorknob 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh yea, the collective student body pretty much rolls their eyes at the behavioral sciences.

[–]Jax-T 21 points21 points [recovered]

This guy demonstrates his last girlfriend as a unicorn in that book. I don't even know what to say next to this.

[–]larrythetomato 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I think that was a very obvious ploy so women could read it. Just like how women can read Atlas Shrugged and think it is a love story, they can read The Game and think the same.

[–]inu51kza 13 points14 points  (1 child)

it's the ultimate fantasy.

the stud could trick every woman but me. I'm special. I played hard to get. he couldn't get me out of his head. I threw him off with my magical personality and looks.

I got him to open up when no other woman could.

it's female sexual narcissism in action.

[–]TheDialecticParadox 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I liked Atlas Shrugged but you can definitely tell a woman wrote it when some of the manliest, richest and most influential men in the world got oneitis for a rail-road tomboy. Typical case of women thinking what's attractive to them is also attractive to men.

[–]TaylorWolf 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Once i found out his big secret was preforming fucking card tricks for women at bars I knew he was a joke

[–]Uptonogood 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep, it was pretty cringey and tacked on.

It was like he really didn't learn shit, and just tacked on that in there to provide some idiotic "lesson learned" to appeal to women and BP's.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children)

I think TRP and PUA are two seperate things. PUA is more of a skillset while TRP is more of a moral philosophy.

Strauss, and even Mystery were never TRP. I don't even think they wanted to be. They were both just lonely nerdy guys that found a 'cheat code' to getting laid at clubs. The end goal more or less WAS to find the unicorn and keep her.

Both of the guys had many exploded relationships. I mean mystery would always say when you get a girlfriend, your social circle explodes so when she leaves you, you've gotta basically start from scratch in the social scene.

I don't think it's neccisarily a bad thing. It's not red pill, but this kinda thing is what red pill evolved from.

[–]EtchyTWA 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Modern PUA began with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction, the following mASF forums that built up around his early works and PUA was founded on the idea that men who were not alpha and could never become alpha also wanted to get laid.

TRP is the distillation of observations from thousands if not tens of thousands of men down into a consistent philsophy, but its also inherently accepting of the default female sexual strategy.

PUA was always about hacking the mainstream, TRP is about becoming high enough within the mainstream that you don't need hacks.

As for the OP -

Theres a truly superb takedown of Strauss on the rawness, if you've got time to read it, as well as some great advice to not need PUA by focusing on self improvement. (Warning, long as fuck.)

http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-1/

A major problem with the PUA stuff is that it attacks the symptoms of one’s disease and not the actual disease itself. Most of the solutions are surface solutions. So you feel better in the short run and get some quick results, but ultimately you do worse in the long run. Here’s an analogy: say you have a pneumonia. It makes you cough, feel tired, you sneeze, your nose is stuffed. Say your solution is to just attack the symptoms.

You take a medicine that makes you stop coughing and sneezing, you take caffeine and energy drinks and ginseng to stop feeling tired, and you use a nasal spray to unstuff your nose. Even though you can’t feel the symptoms anymore, that doesn’t mean you’re not sick anymore and that the sickness isn’t tearing you apart and killing you anymore. The sickness is still working on you underneath the surface.

[–]Lashlarue123 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Even if you cultivate masculinity, you still need to know how to talk to women or you are a loser. PUA accomplishes this.

[–]EtchyTWA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It really does all depend on how high up the totem pole you are.

Stephen hawkings wife would pick him up and smash him into her so she could shag him. Fucker can't even move or talk and drools on himself but his SMV is still high enough to get some.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is why we take our red pills daily. Don't stop once you see success.

Like Dr. Dre said, "Anyone can get it, it's keeping it that's the hard part."

Change your thoughts, actions, and beliefs. Don't fake it.

[–]B0u1dA 20 points21 points  (6 children)

Yet he's still happily running Stylelife Academy so he's happy to take their money but not to publicly acknowledge them.

What a sorry sorry manlet

[–]Rathadin 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Don't worry, once that article is widespread, he won't have to worry about running Stylelife Academy...

[–]B0u1dA 5 points6 points  (2 children)

It was cringeworthy. Appropriate for The Guardian though.

[–]Uptonogood 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Seriously. The Guardian used to be this super journalistic beacon. They were standing up for tyranny and releasing state secrets and what not to the point of persecution.

Then suddenly it was taken over by cucks and SJW's and there's article after article on feminazi horseshit. What the fuck happened?

[–]antidoxdevice 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Think harder man, try to understand people's motivations and why they might be dishonest

[–]B0u1dA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Money. Sales. Stopping his wife from cutting off his penis and tossing it from a moving car. Keeping the keys to the clubhouse in his back pocket for when it all crashes.
I can understand why but it's transparent and the hypocrisy is clear after a short google search.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 6 points7 points  (0 children)

By opening up his psyche to trained therapists for the first time, Strauss learned he had quite an assortment of mental and emotional conditions.”

I see where he went wrong...

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The irony is that his wife most likely lives off of money earned from "The Game".

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah until he starts to run out of steam with new income and she cashes out in divorce. She will tell him to go back to PUA after the divorce HAHA.

[–]abdada 10 points11 points  (1 child)

A lot of Libertarians and anarchists started out by reading Ayn Rand. She was a statist in many ways towards the end, but her book(s) captured a lot of minds.

Neil is very much the same way. For a lot of you, "it all started with Neil."

But it never ends where it starts.

Never.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn, with this book I started with everything.

Clueless about anything, I just felt bad, without knowing why. I entered a book store in Germany aimlessly wondering. Saw this book, the game. First thoughts were "I don't need a book on how to get laid. I would never fall so low."

Bought it a week later. I was probably searching Internet about that book, when I found manosphere and trp. Looking few years back, that's what changed my life. I would never thought that I'll say how Internet community helped changed my life..but there it is.

And it started with that book.

[–]pushuptonofap 5 points6 points  (0 children)

PUA is faking value(performing) to hack through a woman's value tests. TRP is building true value and expressing it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

For a group of people who respect the Machiavellian, you guys sure are shit at recognizing it in action. Even the ladies at Slate.com called it better:

Strauss, by contrast, charms us with confessions of his screwed-up childhood and the many idiotic beliefs and mistakes that have plagued him, then upsells us on the notion that we can be masters of the universe—and he can teach us how.

This guy is a Machiavellian snake-in-the-grass. He's a brilliant, BRILLIANT writer, and I'm not talking about his prose. I mean as a professional, he executes himself brilliantly. He adapts to the market and he rakes in the cash.

Look at that car. Look at that house. Look at that knockout wife who, by his own account, is in the perfect position to divorce rape him and take all that stuff but isn't. How many betas do you think survive their wife catching them cheating? Its the perfect chance to take him to the cleaners.

He's making this shit up.

And there's no way some frumpy post-wall psychologist is molding this man's mind anew. Keep in mind he used to go on tour with some of the biggest rockstars in the world as a writer for the Rolling Stone. He's seen EXACTLY what women really are.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

She wasn't his wife when she caught him cheating. And they haven't been married that long - only 2 years. Depending on jurisdiction she might have to put in a certain number of years before she pulls that move.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I think one of the misconceptions is that someone else can be tricked into doing something they don’t want to.

They can't. That's why we don't trick them into doing things they don't want to do, we make them want to do them by telling them what they want to hear, showing them what they want to see - and that works. Is there anything different from "tricking people" and "telling people what they want to hear" not really, you see I said the same shit twice there if you're perceptive, but if you're not, you think I just made a totally cool and profound point that undermines what he said. And it did. Because I just rephrased what he said in a less negative and thus more rhetorically pleasing way. That my friends is the art of spin.

And you know what? "reframing things" and "tricking people into doing what you want" are things women do innately without any need for an online community. Know why? Because women are innately entire fucking magnitudes more Machiavellian then men are; their natural instinct for cunning dwarfs man's.

For every naturally cunning man out there, there are 100 equally cunning women. Women may be idiots in that they are easily fooled, but that is only because they allow themselves to be - because they want to be - because their emotionalism makes them wilfully blind to reality. It is not because they are insufficiently manipulating and innocent as society would have you believe. And yes, it is always easier to believe someone is innocent and sweet when they are immensely fuckable. The halo effect is a bitch.

Women don't need to be taught charm or manipulation, for both are the natural purview of women. But men, men are not so naturally cunning. They need help with that. Men have to study just to recognise manipulation. Women have it in their very blood to behave manipulatively, something that takes an order of magnitude more ability than mere recognition.

The funny thing is for every idiotic man out there who doesn't even know about communities such as this one, you have a woman who is completely competent in wrapping men around her finger getting advice from woman's magazines and girl friends on how to "play the game" with a man.

The double standards are sickening. Truth be told, "the oppressed class" ain't all that oppressed, being physically fragile and fuckable does not negate women's innate capacity for great mental violence. Something they are all too apt in. As is alluded to with AWALT, caveat emptor.

[–]Chrience 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is there anything different from "tricking people" and "telling people what they want to hear" not really.

It's only tricking people if its a disadvantage to female sexual strategy. :-)

[–]steelerfaninperu 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Eh, I think it's bullshit. I think Strauss is backpedaling now to satisfy the SJW crowd given that his bread and butter still comes from a mostly liberal audience who (as of recent years) opposes the very gold that he spewed in his book.

If you've read his book Emergency, you'd see that he dedicated himself to going full Ron Swanson for a while, living off the land and learning self-defense/survivalist skills. I find it hard to believe that a guy who mastered the art of the pick up AND could survive a zombie apocalypse learned all of that without any sort of personal transformation.

If what he was saying now was really true, he would have said it shortly after his books' publication. But no, it's just appearing now. Now, when the system is stacked against what he did. I think he's doing damage control, nothing more, nothing less.

[–]1runnerrun2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What I think also. He's as a writer good at and susceptible to knowing what others will like. He's made his choice now to appeal to the SJW crowd.

[–]Thizzlebot 14 points15 points  (6 children)

You pretty much nailed it in the conclusion. He was always a bluepill bitch and honestly I feel like half the shit he said was made up but whatever.

[–]Endorsed ContributorLastRevision 34 points35 points  (4 children)

I feel like half the shit he said was made up but whatever.

On one hand, I hate being "that guy" but on the other... if you've heard Strauss speak, he does NOT come off as a sexy Alpha male at all, and frankly, combined with his appearance, I cannot see the level of woman he describes as pulling going for him. Maybe a HB6-7, but he goes on and on about how he's pulling "10s."

To contrast, I see someone like RSD Tyler's appeal. His charisma comes right through the screen... Strauss just seems like an effeminate beta nerd.

[–]Uptonogood 16 points17 points  (3 children)

I remember he disses Tyler really heavily in his book. Goes just short of calling him a con artist cult leader or something.

[–]Endorsed ContributorLastRevision 17 points18 points  (2 children)

I don't know Tyler personally, but I've gotten a lot out of his YouTube videos without paying him a dime and just through watching him speak you can tell he has a great energy and is highly charismatic.

[–]Uptonogood 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It all goes to the time they were together in the mansion they all rented. He accused Tyler of doing shitty "brainwashing" with his clients during his bootcamps to make them give positive reviews or something like that.

[–]squeadle 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Tyler, Mystery, Jeffries, everyone gets "Stylemogged" in the book.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you kindly. I enjoyed writing this one after reading the godawful self-flagellation Neil engages in during the interview.

[–]thefisherman1961 14 points15 points  (3 children)

I find it amusing that TRP is grouped under the label "manosphere" with Pick-up Artists and Men's Rights Activists, despite the fact that we constantly talk shit on the rest of the manosphere because PUAs are blue pill and MRAs are no better than feminists with their victim mentality.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

They're grouped under the "manosphere" because they're almost entirely men, not because of some vague mission statement.

[–]MyLittleAtomBomb 8 points9 points  (9 children)

He's not the first PUA guy to be exposed as a spineless bitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWb9H9Fbx8

That's Julian Blanc of RSD who is backing down in the face of a surprisingly alpha interviewer.

Either you own what you are, or you're a fucking coward. He couldn't stand for his own goddamn principals when they were under attack. He's a fake alpha.

[–]Letters567 23 points23 points [recovered]

Business maneuver, plain and simple. If you want to lose your income for "standing up for you opinions" and think that is worth it, fine by me. Believe what you want, but behave like others.

[–]Ferguson_Curly 5 points6 points  (1 child)

If he doubled down and defended his actions and never backed down he would be fine. He would be a beacon for guys to flock to.

Can you imagine guys like Mike (D&P) or Victor (BoldandDetermined) backing down for a 'scandal' like this? Cmon

[–]RPmatrix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Business maneuver, plain and simple.

Yep, when was the last time Strauss had such publicity? There's no such thing as 'bad publicity' (unless it's illegal)

The only thing worse than being talked about is Not being talked about!

This thread makes this point but how many guys have never heard of this guy, are NOW going to check his old stuff out? Heaps!

[–]Momo_dollar 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Putting your hands around a consenting woman's neck as part of play, flirtation, sex is a major crime according to the interviewer. I wonder if he, and everyone who agrees with him, would give the writer of " 50 Shades of Grey " a hard time, call for the book and movie to be banned, is it likely that they will condemn the millions of women who bought the book? Its not their belief, its the hypocrisy and selective condemnation that pisses me off.

I think the guy who came under attack was OK in his replies, the interviewer was showing out of context pictures that portrayed him a certain way and then asking questions to try and piss him off. He was being shit tested, the objective of the shit test was to show people he is a "bad" guy. But he stayed cool and calm. Possibly he apologized a bit too much, but its easy to criticize when you're not the one being interviewed on TV and its not your life / career that is on the line.

Alsl he cleverly used the interview as an advert opportunity to talk to his target audience- insecure and socially ackward men and mentioned that he could bring them success. All under the interviewer's nose. I'm pretty sure on the day the interview was shown his name was googled by lots of guys wanting to join or buy whatever he was offering/selling.

Tbh, the interviewer seems very feminine in his way of judgemental questioning.

[–]CalvinHobb3s 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not at all. He needed to do that interview and say what he did for legal reasons. If you think he's "being a spineless bitch", then you need to reevaluate deceit and manipulation tactics. This was strategic.

[–]throwaway-aa2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

that's a stupid conclusion. Julien & Tyler are very RedPill esque PUA artists. They are also businessmen... if they hold their ground, they will suffer consequences... or did you not hear about what happened to Julien when he went to Australia? It's easy to do what you want when you're just with bitches who don't know where you work (and even if they do, don't have a big affect just because they have an opinion of you. To your business they're just a stranger). When you have a business, perception is everything, you don't want to get on the bad side of groups that victimize themselves (black people / fat people / females) or they will go out of their way to destroy you.

He actually got RSD in some hot water and Tyler called him an idiot and probably made him lay down a little bit in the face of opposition. The thing is, is RSD doesn't want to be known in the public eye. You apologize and you move on and everyone forgets who you are. In this situation there's literally no reason from a business side to stand up to him. It's not going to dissuade any PUA people to not go to RSD, and it'll dissuade more feminists and victims from trying to sabotage the company.

[–]cdtCPTret 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn that interviewer is a hardass

[–]NakedAndBehindYou 11 points12 points  (19 children)

Pick-up artistry is fundamentally Blue Pill

I disagree. PUA was the starting point of TRP and has a lot in common. In some respects, there is not much difference between the two, depending on what exactly you are defining the terms as.

Neil sounds like he was an early TRP'er but never conquered one-itis, and let it get the best of him. This doesn't invalidate all of PUA.

because you are staking your self-worth on female approval.

That's a broad statement to make. PUA exists because men want to get laid. TRP also exists because men want to get laid. Getting laid without being an actual rapist always requires female "approval" or at least consent to some degree.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

pua is treating the symptoms, trp gets to the core of the problem.

[–]2insickness 1 point2 points  (0 children)

TRP is about improving the product. PUA is about marketing that product.

[–]2rp_valiant 3 points4 points  (16 children)

PUA is imitating alpha characteristics. In early PUA days they had literal scripts they would follow, and the difficulty was in making it sound legit; see for example "opinion openers". That was PUA. Nowadays with RSD it's becoming more about "inner game" or developing an abundancy/DGAF mentality, which is a small fraction of TRP. TRP is about becoming an actual boss, PUA is about pretending to be boss and RSD PUA is about getting the swagger without the groundwork, meaning that they have to spend ages "warming up" every time they go out and that they just play a numbers game. Following TRP correctly to its end result, you should look like sex on fire and should have the swagger and personality to match - you shouldn't need a warmup because you're always on point because it comes naturally - you are alpha.

[–]slay_it_forward 7 points8 points  (9 children)

This is all horseshit. TRP and PUA both contain guys who have spent their lives as betas and want to improve themselves to have better relationships and sex lives.

I don't get this holier-than-though TRP mentality. Picking up women is a skill just like any other. I don't care how alpha you think you've made yourself by lifting and reading Rollo posts, if you haven't approached women before it's going to be difficult. There is merit in 'fake it till you make it'. Eventually you become the guy you were initially imitating.

What makes you more alpha than Neil Strauss? Because you don't 'fake alpha' you just are alpha by way of mindset, lifting and reading TRP? Give me a break.

There's a myth in this forum when you become this alpha (whatever that means) girls will be lining up to suck your dick. No they won't. You will have to go pick them up.

[–]2rp_valiant 4 points5 points  (8 children)

If all you care about is picking up women then by all means focus purely on PUA. My interest in TRP goes far beyond (and doesn't even intersect with) trying to get sex from sluts. TRP has introduced me to lifting, mindfulness, stoicism, a better understanding of masculinity, and even obscure but awesome stuff like the Wim Hof Method and cold morning showers. PUA is exclusively about getting your dick wet, and it's good for that, but it's not good for anything else.

Just because I can, more stuff that TRP has introduced me to:

  • Dark triad (for use in business, helped me embrace my Mach nature)
  • Tracks the misandry bubble so I don't have to
  • Ketogenic diet
  • Power poses
  • Time management
  • WallStreetPlayboys (seriously, check them out)
  • Male fashion

I could go on. None of this shit is part of PUA.

[–]648262 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Nowadays with RSD it's becoming more about "inner game" or developing an abundancy/DGAF mentality, which is a small fraction of TRP.

They did this towards the end of The Game, so about 10 years ago. It's not becoming that. The Blueprint DVDs talks immensely about it as well.

The TRP things we speak of here is inner game to a tee. To be alpha you'll need congruency of your inside and outside. And where the Neil Strauss seduction-style was about focusing mostly on the inside, TRP-style takes a more full-on-approach by changing inside and outside much more. It's still the same concept though.

Anyone who doesn't see TRP as a natural development of PUA* is a blind man in an echo chamber. You could see the beginning of what is TRP today at the end of The Game. We didn't reinvent the wheel - we followed a natural development. I do believe TRP has a bigger foundation and has a more holistic approach to sexual strategy than what The Game/PUA was, so it is probably not a need for a new "phase" as we saw between The Game/PUA and TRP.

edit: * PUS to PUA

[–]2rp_valiant 6 points7 points  (4 children)

of course TRP is an extension of PUA, but it is from a different perspective. PUA is about "what outwards signals can I exhibit to get girls?" - TRP is "forget the signals, how do I become the type of man that exudes these signals without even thinking about it?"

TRP is about becoming like the natural alpha. PUA is copying how he acts. Inner game acts like it's about becoming that guy but if you've seen RSD Tyler have a sucky night, or doing his warmup, you can see it's not his natural state. He gets himself ready to perform, like a dancing monkey. By following TRP you don't need to get ready because it's how you are anyway.

[–]BlackPhoenix01 6 points7 points  (2 children)

If my life was the King's Speech and I was George VI (aka: 'Bertie'), PUA theory was the guy telling him that smoking was good for him and that speaking with marbles in his mouth would help him.

TRP, or at least, the material that it espouses, is Lionel Logue, the guy who realised that the at the heart of the King's stammering was tons of psychological trauma, and that all he needed was a friend who would listen to him.

In other words, I was sort of introduced to PUA was a way to make myself more interesting to girls. The gains were extremely short-term, and I later became so obsessed with the technique and strategy that I became so outcome dependent.

It was just a band-aid over a much larger issue. It did not address dealing with girls on a mental level, as I was still very much worried about what girls would think of me if I did a certain action. In fact, I would go as far as to say that PUA technique kind of amplifies those fears. It fuels, in Mark Manson's terms, 'false confidence.'

The Game is a good introduction for AFCs, but I would wholeheartedly join the rest of the community in recommending Robert Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy and Mark Manson's Models. The latter is a PUA, but he also sees the flaws in the theory and addresses many of them.

Also, as an aside, I realise that girls, and the mainstream community, really freakin' hate PUAs, but they really, really love Alpha Males. Should we not aspire to be the latter?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I studied a lot of PUA stuff back in the day, including his intensive course to whom he called his last "chosen" group of students to learn from "the master," right before he got married. I was never really sure about him. Maybe he's scared of what happened to the RSD guy in Australia. Anyway, I sure learned a lot from PUA, but nothing comes even close to what RP made me realize. It goes from being a show to being real.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I bet Strauss' marriage won't last even 5 years with that apology-ridden regretful attitude.

[–]getRedPill 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I bet this is a new selling strategy, he is coming with a new book or getting big amounts of money from a SJW foundation or feminist NGO. Anyway, usually PUA's are clowns and that's what they teach.

[–]IronMeltsinmyHands 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ingrid De La O was a fucking bombshell. Really goes to show you, bitches will fuck anything if it's interesting.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If anyone lives in California, can they get their water tested for estrogen levels?

A lot of SJW/male-feminist/beta debauchery comes out of California, which also happens to be where a lot of tech companies are.

I know it sounds like paranoia, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a hormonal imbalance that contributes towards this kind of behaviour. High testosterone men don't act this way.

[–]kk3l 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This post brought back some fun memories. When I decided to start paying attention to my outer appearance I bought myself some sick clothes. I checked out myself in the mirror, thinking it looked perfect on me. Then I felt ashamed, since I knew that it was just the clothes that looked good, and I felt like I would be deceiving others if I wore them. That made me feel so bad that I brought back the clothes I bought. Fast-forward some years, after spending some time on TRP, now I'm fully aware that women are doing exactly the same, just more proficiently then men.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Strauss was, is and always will be a little pussy. He was born that way. He is a follower and a bitch. His skil as a writer and his background as a Rolling Stone journalist bought pick up to the attention of the mainstream.

Remember that Rollo Tomassi states that game is more important than looks or status. I think that people in here make the mistake of thinking that TRP is different from game. Game is an important part of TRP. They are not separate topics. TRP teaches us to lift, have a mission in life, act alpha and the women will come.

TRP is sexual strategy mixed with observations as to why women behave the way they do. Early pick up only focussed on how to imitate being alpha without ever becoming alpha. TRP also embraces mens rights and mgtow. Let us not forget that if "The game" was never published this site would not exist. It is a shame that Strauss is such a beta pussy that he cannot see how much good the book did. That book introduced me and many others into a new world of sexual freedom. Without game I would never have slept with as many stunning women as I have. Strauss, you are a pussy and a traitor. You should be ashamed of yourself. Look in the mirror you little coward. File through your memories and tell me that you did not enjoy every woman you slept with. Sleeping with beautiful women is a genetic imperative and any man who claims not to want that is a pussy liar who cant get laid.

[–]EpicureanZombie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He is selling a new book... I'm in no way defending him, but he's smart enough to know the TRP truths he learnt actually work and are the way things are. I think he's just fallen back on his beta side because of laziness. I have a feeling in the back of his mind he knows full well that he has chosen to ignore the truth for the sake of comfort. Must be quite an internal struggle.

[–]SComm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This (like most Politically Correct apologies/admissions) reminds me of 1984 when you were convicted of thought crime you had to proclaim your love of Big Brother before being executed.

[–]andeanballs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can almost picture feminists feeding off his carcass. I wonder what Mystery says about his friend now, he also married and had a child but still made money out of PUA.

[–]Yop333 1 point2 points  (1 child)

“It used to be that, if I wasn’t OK with myself, she was going to make me OK with myself – because she’s beautiful, because she likes me. But if she doesn’t like me or respond to me, then I’m not OK, I’m a failure. The goal now is really to be OK with yourself, to not need anything else. And maybe once you’re OK with yourself, you can see people as they are, without them having to give commentary on who you are or what your status is.”

Is that statement really blue pill?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, but look at the whole picture. He's not saying that because he's taken The Red Pill, but because he's bought into the notion that he was somehow sick or wrong for smashing copious amounts of pussy. He's basically bought into the female notion of "finding yourself".

[–]cR3dd1t 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The way I see it, I am sure a book for women is coming up, either written by him or by his wife. This guy is master of publicity. MMW : A book by Strauss coming soon...

[–]Lashlarue123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great point, spitting good game is completely useless b/c one dude who sucks wrote a book (golf clap)

[–]ChadThundercockII 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Owen Cook aka Tyler Durden is very Red Pill. The guy and his company took pick up to another level. I have a lot of respect for him.

[–]DarkisKnight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fuck. I just lost a lot of the respect I had for Neil Strauss...

[–]mugatucrazypills 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also, isn't there sort of an "Atheism Defeated" ring to all this ? Like fuck it ... if being a pussy is what's selling now, I'm a pussy . He's settling down and changing the product mix. He was as always more of a writer than a PUA.

I can only see the wife's head in the bathtub ... face looks fuckable anyways.

Being massively successful with women didn't fit with his residual self image in the long term even if he had the technical skills.

[–]ChadThundercockII 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This shit is a marketing stunt for his new book called The Truth. Strauss is sell out. He is using the hate the mainstream has for PUAs to sell his new book.

His new book

[–]AdonisHera 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I read the game In my BP days and something about the book seemed so, disillusioned. Somehow these guys were still putting women on a pedestal. Luckily finding the RP in July fulfilled what I was searching for. Neil disappointed me with this interview, but looking back on it through RP lens, I'm not too surprised.

[–]TheSliceman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cant lie a part of me still wants to read his new book. The Game was such a fun read.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What number rule is it to say what others say but do as you do?

His Pickup website is still open for business

He's either happy to keep taking money from people like he used to be or is just doing this to drum up publicity for this book. And lets face it he's selling what everyone wants to hear.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]bobapop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unfortunate, but not totally unexpected. I read and enjoyed his book, as it provided an introduction to concepts that would be further elaborated on in TRP. However, throughout the book it seemed that Strauss never became more than an imitation of an Alpha, so it's not surprising that he's gone full Beta now.

BTW, the comment section of the article is packed to the brim with betas/white knights. Some good entertainment there lol.

[–]bobby8u 0 points1 point  (0 children)

pua to feminist? business strategy to stack more chedda. kudos.

[–]the99percent1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tyler durden is probably the only pua who successfully transitioned into full blown trp.

[–]Stythe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even reading the book I thought it was understood that the formula isn't the point. The idea with game is the same idea between a healthy diet. It's something you learn to be successful in a certain area of your life. It's the the end goal. If you miss the bigger picture you just get caught up in whatever fad/ movement catches your egos attention.

[–]TrevWest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A wolf has donned the cloak of a sheep, his true nature will only be a second life now. It seem's to me he understands the next stage of the game and is preparing himself to succeed,however, his time has come as far as a figurehead for men, "you either die the hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain".

It pains me to see us so condemning of a man, so desperately in need of us.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's pretty common trend with these big name pickup artists who are supposed to be great with women buckling under pressure when dealing with the media. A couple of RSD guys did so, Roosh did so, and now Strauss as well. He was one of the exceptions and did great on talk shows back when he was doing the press tour promoting his book The Game, to the point actually getting other guests' phone numbers IIRC.

Bottom line, this is what bad inner game and lack of frame control looks like.

[–]falafin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh well. So what is his new book 'The Truth' about?

I kinda hoped it would be an interesting read that would spill some redpill truths but I guess that's not happening.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But I agree with him that you can't trick anybody into doing something they don't want.

I guess this is just a semantic misunderstanding, maybe, but I strongly believe that regardless of who you are, women choose. We can master the game, looks, status, money, still, they choose us. You won't do nothing with her unless she wants it.

[–]craigsproof 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fact that can't talk to women without the crutch of routines still to this day show's that he's still broken inside. When push comes to shove, he doesn't believe that the real him is enough.

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