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Red Pill TheoryThe ABC stages of independence – Make her wonder if you care (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by TRP VanguardArchwinger

Like most of us, before I started this wild ride, I was what we shorthand as “beta” around here. There’s nothing inherently wrong with being that kind of person. Most betas are decent guys. You’re not really a loser or an idiot. Being beta makes a lot of logical sense. You try to please others, avoid conflict, help others be happy, and assume other people will like you, like being around you, be nice to you, and do nice things for you. That makes sense. You’re not even doing this as some kind of entitled nice-guy™ covert contract thing. You’re just being nice to people to avoid making waves or hurting others, and because you like it when other people are happy. And it makes sense to assume that most other people are pretty much like you -- generally nice folks that would do the same for you, right?

The end goal of most "beta" guys who come here is power over women. Independence. Success. Most of us go through a series of stages, outlined below. Some of you might see yourself in me, some of you might have done things a little differently.

Appeasing: As a "beta" guy, when I dealt with my wife, I dealt with her from the position of a people-pleaser. She would say something, usually a complaint, and I would assume that her complaint was legitimate, serious, and warranted addressing. Essentially, I assumed that she was saying what she meant, which is not really an idiot assumption. Most people say what they mean, right? So I would verbally respond to her complaint at face value, that response usually being an apology or some form of defending myself if the complaint was about me. My specific response depended on whether I agreed with her complaint or not. Being “beta” doesn’t mean you’re necessarily a total pushover and concede to every remark a woman makes, just that you elevate each of her remarks to something worthy of serious consideration and response. If the complaint wasn’t about me, I’d usually respond with some form of proposed solution, advice, or an offer or promise to help address the source of the complaint. Because if she said something, then it was worthy of my consideration and response. She wanted me to consider it and respond. Otherwise, she wouldn’t have said it.

I don’t need to tell any of you guys how those years went. Constantly in the dog house. Infrequent sex. Publicly and privately disrespected, shamed, emasculated. Never good enough. Always wondering what the hell was wrong with me, with her, with our marriage. How I could do so much all the time, yet all that I did went completely unnoticed, or wasn’t appreciated, or was actively minimized and brushed off as trivial and unimportant during the bitching and emasculation sessions. Why somebody I loved, who supposedly loved me, who I did so much for, could treat me that way, and not see how she treated me.

Bargaining: Continuing with the “beta” assumption that most people are nice and most people appreciate others who are nice to them, it was obvious that the way my wife was making me feel must have been completely unintentional. So all I had to do was tell her how I saw things, and we could have a discussion about that. Good communication is the key to every marriage, right? She needed to know how she was making me feel.

I don’t need to tell any of you guys how those months went. Each time we spoke, she did a good job of not laughing at me, but took great care to explain, quite loudly, why everything she said and did was justified due to some action, behavior, or character trait of mine. And how she definitely wasn’t feeling very attracted or in the mood for sex when she had to deal with a husband who was like that. I would promise to improve in some way if she would work on the way she interacted with me. Compromise is the heart of marriage, right? And she explained, quite loudly, why the way she was acting was my fault and was based solely on what I did to cause it, so of course if I wasn’t such a loser/idiot/slob/selfish/etc, her responsive behavior wouldn’t have ever happened and wouldn’t be an issue.

Being “beta” doesn’t mean you’re stupid. I knew damn well that when somebody does something you dislike, there are respectful ways and disrespectful ways to address that person about it. I’d been doing the first for quite some time. I knew it was perfectly possible to respectfully address issues with people, and my wife had a master’s degree and was able to hold a steady job working with idiots, maintain friendships, and speak respectfully to a lot of people – I’d seen her do it. No, she was deliberately choosing to be a disrespectful bitch to me when it was fully in her power not to. But I figured there was no sense pressing the issue. She’d heard what I had to say and would probably be a little nicer in the future, because no wife wants or deliberately tries to make her husband feel that way.

Confronting: So I stumble upon this Red Pill thing, read about 15 minutes worth of material, and realize that I’m not supposed to tolerate disrespect. Of course bargaining and negotiation didn’t work – the Red Pill said so. And I got mad. Decided I wouldn’t put up with her disrespect any more. I started calling her out every time she was passive-aggressive, just plain aggressive, or downright mean. I yelled, fumed, said mean things back, argued that her response was disproportional to whatever she was unhappy about. I even got pissy and angry in front of her friends, who tended to get uncomfortable and leave, further pissing my wife off.

I don’t need to tell any of you guys how that went. Even if you’re shooting down a woman’s shit and getting into screaming matches with her, you are still elevating every word she says into something worthy of the full force of your response. Arguing, defending yourself, yelling, getting angry, saying mean shit back – that’s just as “beta” as being a people-pleaser. You’re still making what she says the focus of your existence and responding to it. You’ve just changed the words you use to respond.

Dodging: So I keep reading this Red Pill thing for another 15 minutes or so, and realize that I’m not supposed to pay attention to stupid shit women say, so I start ignoring her when she’s a bitch. I walk away. I blow her off with 1-2 word responses and go do something else. But come on. When you walk away from a woman every time she does something mean to go hide in another room, it’s not like that isn’t obvious. You’re a butt-hurt little baby. And my wife called me on it. Stomping off, giving her the silent treatment – that was just a different kind of whining. That’s just as “beta” as yelling at her. I’ve just changed the color of my response. But I’m still responding to her. Making her words the focus of my life.

Enlightenment: I get a new job and we change cities. I started work at a small office. The boss is old, a lot of younger kids work there, and the only people kind of close to my age and my place in life are these two 30-something single moms. I’m a 30-something married dad, so it makes sense that we kind of hang out, have things to talk about, grab lunch together, get drinks after work. And when I come home and talk about my day, these are the people I talk about.

I don’t need to tell you guys how that went. My wife starts bitching me out about spending too much time with these women and how I’m always talking about one of them. She accuses me of cheating. I’d been reading The Red Pill for awhile now, so instead of profusely denying it, I simply responded that if she really thought I was cheating, we wouldn’t be talking about it. She’d be handing me divorce papers. I chuckled that she was just trying to get a rise out of me and that it was cute, but I needed my voice tomorrow, so no yelling for me.

Then I did what any logical married man who doesn’t care what his wife thinks would do. I set up a play-date with my daughter and both of my co-workers’ kids. At the pool. Because unlike my wife, these 30-something single moms are actually skinny and look awesome in bikinis. And I’d been working out like a fiend and my chest looked badass. And we sat around looking hot and drinking beers and talking about work and inside jokes and shit that didn’t involve my wife and playing with each other’s kids, and these moms, for all of the crazy drama in their lives, are good at mothering and my daughter loved them. My wife cares about her social appearance, so even though she had next to nothing to contribute to the gathering, didn't want to be there, and especially didn't want me to be there, she was polite as could be.

That not caring part is key. Every bit as important as the other women in bikinis part. When your woman is seriously out of line and has been for a long time, she needs to wonder if you love her.

Fucking: So my wife is acting all quiet and brooding and pissy that evening, and I’d usually have taken some kind of action when she’s being passive-aggressive like that, but I just have another beer and keep playing with our kid, give her a bath, read books, put her to bed. I get back to the bedroom, and my wife asks, “Did you have fun today?” fully intending to start an argument. I push her ass on to the bed and we have sex.

Gaslighting: Afterward, she asks if I’ll stop being an ass now. I ask what the heck she’s talking about. She asks if I’ll please spend less time with my co-workers. I act like that’s a silly request and remind her about my 12-hour work days, but assure her that they don’t wear swimsuits to the office. She calls me an asshole. I pretend not to notice and remark on the short dress one of them wore last Thursday. Instead of crying or getting pissy, she giggles.

From that point on, a good three quarters of the time, when she complains about something, I act like she didn’t even talk and just continue with whatever it is we were discussing, or whatever other thing is on my mind. And she acts like I didn’t just ignore her. The other quarter of the time, it’s straight up agreement and amplification.

This shit’s long. I’d better write a conclusion or something:

We all go through Red Pill stages. We start off beta, we try to negotiate, we try to argue, we try to ignore. Only when you reach the point of true uncaring does anything work. In fact, once you reach the point of true uncaring, everything works.

The key is not caring. Being aloof. Saying and doing things you’d never do if you were worried how a woman might respond. Because the very act of doing those things indicates that you don’t care how (or if) she responds. You want a woman to wonder if you care about her. If she knows that you do, or knows that you don’t, there’s no point in her remaining invested in a situation. You want her investment? Make her wonder if you care.


[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 111 points112 points  (19 children)

What's interesting is every stage you describe is really an attempt to gain power, some modicum of control over the situation, just in different ways.

The real tragedy of a blue pill mindset is the lack of understanding that all human interaction involves some power dynamic. And funny enough, Beta game as Rollo calls it, is still a play for power. Even "playing the victim", as so many Feminists and SJWs like to do, is a play for power. Turning their "position of weakness" into strength, into control. A corrupted form of power. But power nonetheless.

The real insight of TRP is that a man's only real power lies in his willingness to walk away. An IDGAF mindset. Any other approach only leads to frustration. To powerlessness. A blue pill approach is an abdication of our responsibilities as men. And such abdication deserves no respect. Respect is earned.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 69 points70 points  (18 children)

Power's really the core of The Red Pill. Men show up here because they feel powerless. They either can't successfully find relationships, or are in shitty ones, or have just lost one, and it feels like there's nothing they can do. Like they're helpless before the power and choice and whims of women. Women either choose them or they don't. It's the way they want things, or the highway. And they leave when they want.

Amazingly, taking power away from the women in your life, and all future women you will ever meet, translates into more power in all of your other relationships as well. We're building powerful men here, without shooting up schools, without raping anybody, without even raising our voices.

[–]Skrittext 50 points50 points [recovered]

Too bad people don't have moms like mine. The first girl advice she ever gave me was "don't give her anything she asks for, women don't know what they want, it's just a test, as soon as she gets what she 'wants' she will push for more until she loses interest in you." I may have taken this a little too literally back in high school but it made way more sense than being a girl's bitch and not getting laid.

[–]1htbf 11 points12 points  (8 children)

If I may be so curious, how did you end up here with a mother like that ?

[–]Skrittext 17 points17 points [recovered]

I was giving my friend some advice and he said that's exactly what they say on RedPill. I had no idea what it was at the time, but decided to check it out. I enjoy reading the stuff on here because it is all in line with my pre-rp mind-set but more refined, organized, and vast. Also, I was losing my touch and couldn't figure out what was wrong. RP helped me determine the main key to my success was actually just being muscular and fit, the rest comes second. Didn't even put it together that because I stopped working out for a couple years, woman found me less attractive. Now I'm back in the gym again. Thank trp

[–]Joseph_the_Carpenter 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Although it makes your game piss easy it's not just about being muscular and fit. You still have to have some game if you want a decent girl on your arm; zero times shredded is still zero.

I know I'm repeating what you said, but I'll add staying fit isn't just to get women or be a better man, it's what everyone should do to feel normal. It's the state we should rest in all the time. If you aren't getting stronger or staying in shape you're not being what nature made you to be. Women are attracted to fit guys but every guy should be fit. I imagine every woman in the world being overweight must be how women feel about most modern men.

[–]AlphaMortal 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Well said. Recently, a lot of men in this subreddit keep referring to the gym as the game-changer and unturn somewhat loosing touch with reality.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Going to the gym and becoming fit is absolutely a game-changer, for multiple reasons. First, looking in shape definitely increases your chances for positive interaction with women AND men. I know this, because I've experienced it first hand. It doesn't even take much, either. If you go to the gym, and look better than you did three months ago, you'll see the change in respect, especially when interacting with strangers. Second, going to the gym has definite positive mental effects. It's like it helps remove bad energy, or negative thinking. If you think otherwise, it's because you're too lazy, and don't want to put in the effort into turning your own body into something beautiful. There's no loss of reality; you just don't understand the reality those of us have experienced from our efforts at the gym. It is absolutely fundamental.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

signalling.

same as wearing a suit makes it more likely to be treated with respect.

they don't know you from Adam, so seeing you in shape means you put in effort, sexually healthy, and that probably means you're also a good person, and valuable to them

[–]Hoodwink 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Our culture has a way of giving boys the wrong idea even if TheRedPill is staring them right in the face. By culture, I mean feminist propaganda.

We have a whole academic field committed to it (and it usually infects all the other soft majors in Universities like English, Literature, Psychology, Sociology, etc.). A majority of teachers who spout feminism covertly or overtly. We have Presidents who ape easily disproved lies (rape statistics).

It really is the modern day perfection of a 'soviet/nazi propaganda' machine when you truly understand how pervasive it is in infecting everyone's ideas. And how much money and effort goes into it. It's propaganda that isn't easily identified as propaganda because it masquerades itself as truth and victim-hood.

It really shouldn't surprise anybody that 'one redpill teacher' isn't enough.

[–]popori 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's important to see it as not a propaganda but self-serving agenda given the rise of women in the social circle since the previous generation. While I get the point you're making, I think it really is the case that younger women don't really understanding what they want out of a man and society in general than women wanting everything, if you will.

As an example, I don't think Obama would tolerate being treated like a bitch at home just because he treats his wife with respect. The key point would be that his wife would respect him enough not to cross the natural boundaries between men and women. It really just comes down to respect. Your woman respects you; she'll respect you more for treating her with respect but only if she recognizes the lee-way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

mine told me to learn how to take care of myself, because bitches don't do shit anymore.

If they don't know, why would you assume what they are saying has any merit? Makes perfect sense, once you actually empathize, and not assume it's just your thought process with tits

[–]Skrittext 2 points2 points [recovered]

You are in charge of what they want, they don't know, therefore simply tell them what they want to do for you. The reason 'bitches don't do shit no more' is because there aren't enough men telling bitches what they should be doing. If you leave it up to bitches to do what they want, nothing good will happen. You'll be left taking care of yourself and if you're beta enough, you'll be taking care of them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

pretty much. it's kind of freeing when you internalize it.

Master of your own domain. You can be a kramer, or you can be a George. I'd rather be a George

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That needs to be a fucking tee shirt.

"We build powerful men"

Or something.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Yea I agree. I don't think it's about getting power over women as much as it is gaining power over yourself. Again I think it goes back to having much more focus on yourself than it is with women or anybody. You can do this without having to be a total duchbag.

  • There is nothing selfish about being conscious of your health and body by eating right and going to the gym.

  • There is nothing selfish about being conscious of how others treat you and knowing where the fucking line is and whether or not you even need to give it an ounce of attention.

  • There is nothing selfish about choosing women who have respect for themselves and aren't whoring their bodies away to anybody.

  • there is nothing selfish about choosing to walk away from a women who is being a total disrespectful bitch. Your teaching her a lesson too.

I keep seeing people say to be selfish. It's not about being selfish. It's about doing what's right. The world has gotten out of hand with it's own selfishness and I think here at the red pill were not going to adopt societies rules for how they think things should be. In fact it's humanly unnatural. Men are made to be independent thinkers and doers. We are not here to kiss every bodies ass and tell them they are right. We are on our own journey and that is one of evolving our own strength and personal respect for ourselves. I believe that makes the world a better place than a man who is doing what everybody is telling him to do. And I don't think it's selfish either.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Late to the party, but yeah, coming back to this one after a week.

Really hits home, 3 weeks after I left the military, and why there so many servicemen in rp.

Basically as a lifestyle, having to embrace formally having no power, and then working on keeping that from affecting your relationship. Almost makes it tolerable, which is horrible.

Since leaving, was really my time to hit your last stage, and its such a great thing. Walking away is now the GAFF 0, and happier for it.

[–]1RPAlternate42 49 points50 points  (5 children)

Long story short: if she's acting like a man who acts like a woman, treat her like a man.

If a man came took you screaming and bitching about nonsense, you'd just ignore him... Because he's acting like a woman.

Vaginas don't make them special; femininity makes them special. If they espouse that, then they deserve recognition for it.

[–]1RXRob 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Feminists need to read that last paragraph.

[–]Tatersalad99[🍰] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They need it tattooed on their hands

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think theres space left on many of them

[–]1Kolbath 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Brilliantly discovered and just as well-written up. I am only disappointed that you stopped before you got to "X". I was kinda curious to see what that was gonna be.

I think a good continuation is:

Happiness You're obviously in a better place. Your wife is treating you with more respect and deference, and your physical appearance has improved. You've got a better job, and your coworkers are pleasant to interact with. While happiness comes from within, the without can make a huge impact on it.

Independence At some point we realize that we don't need the validation of women. We casually refer to that as IDGAF, or "outcome independence", and it is a real and important stage of growing into The Red Pill.

Why are people afraid to bungee jump? Because the risk (death or serious injury) and outweighs the reward (a few moment's thrill) for them. But by divorcing the potential negative outcome from our thoughts and seeing only the reward of a potential act, we allow ourselves to push beyond our boundaries.

Shit... Who has something for J?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jurisdiction: You fill the rest (lets build our own legal and civil structure ,i.e patriarchy of the home and country)

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (3 children)

The paradox of women chasing selfish douchebags and despising kind men never ceases to amaze me.

You cant make this shit up.

Great post

[–]SPICY_BUTT_MILK 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Correct.

I'd amend that slightly however. There's nothing wrong with kind men...it's the nice men who are clueless. "Niceness" comes from weakness. It's a bid to please others and not rock the boat. Niceness comes from social conditioning and fear. Kindness can only come from a place of abundance and strength. In other words, you can't be truly kind unless you also have the power to be truly unkind.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

If the kindness comes from a magnanimous place with zero expectation of anything in return then you are 100 percent correct

[–]SPICY_BUTT_MILK 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. Part of what we're doing here is eliminating covert contracts from our behavior.

[–]Endorsed Contributorcholomite 11 points12 points  (6 children)

Great post. Reaching that stage of truly giving zero fucks was my matrix moment when the bullets just drop out of the air and you don't even need to dodge them anymore. The only thing I would add is that while you shouldn't give a fuck about your wife, gf, or whatever, you should absolutely care about YOU. If I didn't truly give a fuck about anyone or anything I would sit around playing GTA V, drinking mountain dew and getting high all day. I care very much about myself and want to experience all the great things that life has to offer.

[–]reigorius -1 points0 points  (5 children)

I'm confused a bit here. Don't we all get some form of attachment to the person we share our lives with?

Perhaps it is my Blue pill ideal, but I would want to love my partner. Especially if we live under the same roof and we'd form a team that function well.

And then walking away suddenly isn't so easy anymore.

[–]gouom 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Who says you can't absolutely love them without putting them on a pedestal. Just acting like you don't care changes the game. LTRs are not about being 100% Chad, just a nice balance.

[–]reigorius 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm talking about walking away. You live with your partner, you love your partner and you get attached to your partner. Of course willing to walk away is in the back of your head. But easier said than done, me thinks.

[–]Endorsed Contributorcholomite 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Of course it's easier said than done, and it definitely gets more difficult as time goes on, but there's really only two choices. Maintain your power to walk away and your woman will put in more effort to stay with you, or surrender that power to walk away and enjoy being walked on and getting miserable duty sexy twice a month. I love my gf and I believe she loves me back in her own way, but I've seen it my self. When I give myself completely to her (100% guranteed commitment) her perception of me changes and she loses a little bit of respect. Women want to be with a man they have to chase, otherwise she's just stuck with one of her beta orbiters. I have no plans of leaving my gf of 10 years, but letting her chase me, instead of me chasing her has led to a much more fulfilling relationship for the both of us. I definitely had to put in work to become them prize first though. Basically, by displaying that you have the power to walk away, your relationship is much more likely to stay stronger for longer. Giving that up turns it into a blue pill relationship where neither party is truly happy. Then hard part is finding them right balance in your LTR.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would want to love my partner.

What you want is the Blue Pill fantasy and what actually happens is something quite different. Want to love your woman? DNGAF about whether she leaves you because you could line up better/tighter/younger in short order. Only then will she act in a way that a man can love her- and only so long as she thinks you might exercise your options.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Not caring is really where all of our power comes from. This is why I consider psychopathy to be probably the most important trait in the dark triad traits. My LTR knows I'm capable and willing to walk away from it all at the drop of a hat and not feel anything. And it keeps her in line pretty damn well. She acts up, I give her a little taste of what that feels like. Things are back to normal immediately.

[–]reigorius 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Could you describe her behavior and how you handle it? I learn best from examples.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Jesus Christ this is beautiful.

[–]Vigilo_Infinite 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Dread game 101. Good write up Archwinger.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

ZOMG IT'S LIKE YOU'RE NARRATING MY LIFE

This is exactly how things have gone in my marriage. Exactly. It's uncanny.

I think I'm Dodging right now, knowing Enlightenment is there and aspiring to it daily.

Stupendous post. This belongs on the MRP sidebar at least.

[–]wattwatty 4 points5 points  (0 children)

How much money do investment bankers want to make? The amount might vary when measured in $$ between people, but the fundamental unit is always the same: They want to make exactly 1 unit of "fuck you money." I.e. enough money that you can respond to any question/request/comment from anyone with one simple answer: fuck you. I have come to understand that some dread game in the context of a marriage is like having fuck-you money.

Great post.

[–]alpha_n3rd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The key is not caring

this this this

I always said most evil in the world is caused by too much caring

[–]1RBuddDwyer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Dear wife:

Fuck you. Chase me.

Sincerely:

R. Budd Dwyer

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

you steal that one from 'fuck you pay me?'

great speech BTW

[–]1RBuddDwyer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Fuck you... War." - Andrew Breitbart

[–]Rasalom72 1 point2 points  (6 children)

This is a good story that reinforces the "Whoever cares LESS about the relationship has all the power". If you want more control over your relationships, you have to care less about them then the other people involved.

[–]itsgavinc 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Yes, whoever cares less and whoever needs the other person less holds the power. Above all we must remember that the only power card the woman holds is her vagina. If you take that away there is nothing left. That is outcome independence and freedom.

[–]reigorius 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Good point. But when I think about it, don't we all strive to mold a partner so that the two of you form a functional and effective team. A team that has more benefits besides a wet pussy?

I'm currently dating, but if I would commit, I certainly want to have more than pussy. And shaping a woman into a good wife doesn't happen overnight. It is an investment. And since I know I would get at least a bit attached, simply walking away sounds more difficult than it is prescribed here.

Any thoughts?

[–]ClockhandLuke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The displayed willingness to walk is the key. You have to show that you would do just fine without her.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Any thoughts?

Sure! Google Sunken Cost Fallacy.

[–]RealEstateRockstar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But wait, are you sure it's okay to walk away when I invested all this time into my unicorn!? /sarcasm

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Iron rule #7 comes to mind.

Beyond that, the better you are, the more someone has to work to keep up, and the better selection you have to choose from.

[–]SunshineBlotters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This post is fucking beautiful. It mirrors a lot of things I have learned over the years but I couldnt put it into words. As a black man I can tell you for sure dread game is the best way to attract black women and keep em in line.

[–]princenotsocharming 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I am not concern trolling here, but the number of comments and up votes, or the lack of, for this amazing article show that the newbies are reluctant to read solid, logic backed articles and prefer one paragraph attention grabbers.

[–]reigorius 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Give it some time. Also, I believe Archwinger is respected in the MRP sub. So I'm sure he is reaching the right people.

[–]SPICY_BUTT_MILK 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When detractors come here to find examples of how we are a cult or full of shit, they always do a great job of skipping over quality posts like this.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is absolute gold, and describes how my transformation went. I think the anger is the big driver to change, for me without the angry stage nothing would have changed. Well done.

[–]1PantsonFire1234 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You raised two excellent points.

In fact, once you reach the point of true uncaring, everything works.

This one is key and should be discussed more on TRP in my opinion. Far to much attention has been given to theory and proper behavior/responds. That we tend to forget how normal everyday social interactions happen- unplanned.

Whatever your response was, if it appeared beta or alpha won't weigh as much as your own personal aloofness.

If she knows that you do, or knows that you don’t, there’s no point in her remaining invested in a situation.

This one is just funny and sums up women perfectly. It's never enough and they have no clue about anything most of all themselves. I think there's a whole untapped market of comedy shows that portray how stupid women are down to their very core.

They aren't evil or uncaring- just fucking stupid. Think about it, what kind of creature would set-up such insanely contradictory conditions? I can guarantee you that giving a woman power in ANY situation will bring forth the destruction of that which she controls.

Be it a relationship, company or a nation. A woman who holds all the strings is a disaster waiting to happen.

[–]redarkane 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Dude you sound miserable. Why did you even marry her?

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 16 points17 points  (1 child)

It's not all bad. But the weeks upon weeks of normal days that happen in between the eventful ones don't make for very interesting Red Pill posts. And it's gotten a lot better. I just had to stop caring and do more shit I wanted to do and less that she wanted to do, which seems like it ought to end in divorce instead of a stronger marriage, but women are stupid like that.

[–]Nycredpilldad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Either that or they'll start fucking someone else behind your back.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for writing this post. I went through many of these stages with my ex. It was, however, too little, too late. I learned a lot from it though, and as we know, it's an ongoing process.

I used to crap my pants mentally on those rare occasions that I spontaneously spat out some semi-offensive line to people, and afterwards realized what I "had done". Oftentimes, nothing bad happened. Well, at least not something majorly bad. I never saw it for what it was, until I found TRP.

When I grew up I was an outspoken, loud and socially courageous boy. Somewhere in my late teens, that boy fell under the weight of his disillusioned world, never to unearth again. I'm digging myself up now.

IDGAF, being aloof, uncaring. That's precisely what I used to be. My boyhood is filled with stories where I would open random people when out and about with my parents. Shit's hilarious to this day. I'm proud of having been like that. It's also a reminder that that is who I can be, or even am. I just need some retraining.

Which gets me to my point of all this. This last week and a half I've been working on a project with a girl a few years my junior, so perfect to practice being all those things. We were talking about what we did this past weekend. She's learning to play poker, which she played with a guy from school. Told me she won and she thinks maybe she's a natural. I tell her you're probably the better of two bad players, don't get cocky. She goes on asking if I think she'd have a good poker face. Far from it I tell her. How dare you say that, she asks. She giggles and I smirk. We continue our chit-chat while working.

My uncensored speech can be quite taunting I've noticed. But for some reason I get away with it.

[–]JumpXVI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didn't even notice the headings were literally in alphabetical order till I came back to the tab and read "ABC" again in the title—marvelous work.

The key is not caring. Being aloof. Saying and doing things you’d never do if you were worried how a woman might respond. Because the very act of doing those things indicates that you don’t care how (or if) she responds.

Your entire concluding paragraph is gold, of course, but something specifically about these first few sentences gave me a light bulb idea. A man can tie leadership, and how a women wants and needs a man to lead her, directly to the sort of outcome independent, "my way or the highway" attitude that corresponds to not caring what she will think.

Leadership has always been something I've needed to work on in my life, even though I am successful and not at all lacking for confidence. There've been times in my life with women, or in grad school, or with friends where I haven't led, and it's been because I know I can thrive no matter the situation or setting.

While this mindset may work with peers, the old "women are children" comes to mind when thinking of how women need to be led in romantic relationships. This post allowed me to view this necessity from a different perspective.

[–]PappaFirefly[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a really useful post, nice one.

[–]DoesNotMatterAnymore 0 points1 point  (3 children)

A year ago I did a questionable move, I bought No more Mr Nice Guy for my dad. I know for a fact that he read most of it. He is just like Arch in the first half of his story. The sad part is that he is still a people pleaser, and he will suffer for his weakness til the end of times.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Dude how did this go? Ive had Nmmng in my car to give to him for months, and have been hesitant. Also, how did you approach it?

[–]britime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I too have been considering, yet hesitant in gifting it to my father.

[–]DoesNotMatterAnymore 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The sad part is that he is still a people pleaser

Well the old man eventually stopped reading NMMNG around the sex part of the book, and few months ago had an affair with a 40something woman. My obese mother figured this out (my dad didn't even tried to hide it), and kicked him out of the bedroom. Not a big loss for him. At least he pulled some dread, and it worked.

My mom was 100% sure that my dad would never do that, ohhh well... fatty :D She is a dumb, fat, disrespectful, lazy, passive aggressive, shit test factory. Dad was failing every single one in they 30 years long marriage.

Conclusion: You just can't push down the pill on anyone's throat, we know that, i knew that, but i had to do something. I have no right to interfere they marriage, but i had to try it. My dad suffered enough in the past 30 years and he deserves a better life. Somehow i feel that he sees no hope for a better life, or just simply tired and tries to avoid any more drama.

how did you approach it?

I called him over, and told him that i found a book that might help him. Also if he wants to talk about it, i'm here. We never spoke about it since. But that's not a big surprise judging by our non-existent emotional connection.

[–]TheAureate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your time and your wisdom Archwinger.

I had just written up a post about why nice guys always lose, but I wish I had had the insight you wrote about in your introduction before I made it. What an eloquent way to describe nice guy-ness.

[–]Melvin_butters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This really hit me as a reminder of my previous relationship. Glad you could work yours out, I just decided to end mine.

I suppose that's not a bad thing though?

[–]ComplainyGuy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just want to say op iv, out of pure lack of interest and fed-up-ness, acted in your final stage with a tantrum throwing girlfriend.

After a year of struggling to deal with her tantrums these wrre the only times positive outcomes were had for me. But i never knew the context or reasoning behind what is/was happening because it's always in the heat of emotions and stress.

Thank you op this came at the perfect time you explained it all so perfectly! I can now work on it instead of feeling lost and used and manipulated.

[–]Sirtriplenipple 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was so well put forward, and hit home much more than anything I've read here in a long while. It almost makes me wonder if I could have saved my marriage, as each step felt like it completely pertained to me. Thanks man, good read!

[–]js27195 0 points1 point  (2 children)

My question to the rp community is this though, if you don't want to lose your wife, but when you start hanging out with other girls or generally not caring, she also doesn't care and just starts growing more and more distant, what do you do then? I'm nervous to let it go too far, because I don't want to lose my kids and half my assets but when I generally quit caring or making an effort, she simply drifts off and becomes uncaring and distant, not angry, just distant. How do you get them to the point they care enough that they actually would care if you left or liked someone else?

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

There are two steps:

First, raise your SMV. You've got to be buff, professionally successful, good with your kid(s), liked by your neighbors, socially active and socially adept, taking care of shit around the house, and leading your family.

THEN, you start to withdraw from your wife if she's not getting in line sexually and behavior-wise. If you're not super-awesome first, she's not going to care that you walk off and don't want to fuck. She doesn't want to fuck either. And she won't care if she loses you. What's she losing if you suck? She's probably thinking about divorce, too.

But if you're awesome AND she's not getting in line, she's probably beyond repair. Done and been done for awhile, just going through the motions since no better opportunity's come along and you pay the bills. Maybe not actively looking to leave or cheat, but just going through the motions.

At that point, you escalate until you're ready to leave, and either she gets in line, leaves, or lets you leave. By then, you're in the best shape of your life, well-off professionally, and quite a catch for any of the other ladies you've been flirting with. By then, you're better off without her.

[–]js27195 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's good advice. I'd say I'm pretty okay SMV wise, high income (200k), good father etc. I'd say you're probably spot on with saying she's probably been done a long time... she doesn't withhold sex at all though she just doesn't care. I would like to make her care, but I don't know how to do that. Ignoring her doesn't seem to work, it just makes it worse. She's VERY good looking herself so she is not insecure about finding someone. She also has a pretty decent job. I'll take your advice and really try to get even more fit, probably need to start getting into more independent activities away from the kids and mutual family friends too. Thanks for your advice! It's appreciated.

[–]TheSupr3m3Justic3 2 points2 points [recovered]

Honest question: Since you DGAF, what keeps you from walking away?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

It's what you DGAF about. Obviously you care enough to be in a relationship, but you have shown that you DGAF if your wife gets pissy, or makes some stupid demand. You've realized that giving in to her miss behavior only encourages it so you DGAF when she misbehaves.

There really is nothing wrong with you kid having a play date with other co-workers kids. The fact that it's 3 people adds credibility to the fact that it's just a bunch of parents letting their kids play. So when she pops off treat it will all the respect it deserve- none

Women have two competing desires - they don't want to loose their man so they want to control him and they will nag, deny sex, etc to gain control; on the other hand they want to be with a man they respect - such a man does not give into petty manipulation, nor is he frustrated by it

[–]reigorius 0 points1 point  (3 children)

But those desires do not mix, so it sounds odd for a woman to have both innate desires from a biological point of view.

[–]Familial_adenomatous 1 point2 points  (2 children)

odd or unlogical? stop your brain from applying aristotelian logic to things related to women. Go read some fucking Hegel!

[–]reigorius 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well, maybe nature wants something else than what we have culturally applied.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Reading this was cringe worthy man. Your wife reminds me of my roommate female dog. She sighs whenever she is not entertained, super clingy. Living with a chick is not for me.