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Red Pill ExampleMike Rowe Responds to the NYT Modern Man article (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by arcaneadam

LINK: https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/posts/1071145119562297

Mike Rowe is a natural RP. Someone asked him for his take on the NYT article, 27 Ways to Be a Modern Man

His responses are pretty good. (Some are a little placating towards women, but honestly I think MR turns down some of his opinions because he makes a good amount of $$$ of the ladies)

Here are a few gems:

NYT: The modern man is considerate. At the movie theater, he won’t munch down a mouthful of popcorn during a quiet moment. He waits for some ruckus.

MR: A Man’s Man is also considerate. But he would never consciously time his chewing to coincide with the noisy parts of the film. He does not walk on eggshells.


NYT: Before the modern man heads off to bed, he makes sure his spouse’s phone and his kids’ electronic devices are charging for the night.

MR: A Man’s Man knows that self-reliance is born of experience. He encourages his kids to look after their own stuff, and suffer the consequences when they do not. The wife is another matter.

(The portion regarding the wife is a bit BP but the sentiment of the rest of it is great)


NYT: Having a daughter makes the modern man more of a complete person. He learns new stuff every day.

MR: A Man’s Man is already a complete person. His identity does not depend upon sons, daughters, spouses, friends, or pets. He is not a loner, and he cherishes the relationships he has. But he knows that his “completion” is nothing but a reflection of knowing who he is.


NYT: The modern man still jots down his grocery list on a piece of scratch paper. The market is no place for his face to be buried in the phone.

MR: A Man’s Man does not make lists. He knows what he likes, what he needs, and what he wants. If he has to write it down, he understands it was not worth having in the first place.


NYT: The modern man still ambles half-naked down his driveway each morning to scoop up a crisp newspaper.

MR: A Man’s Man does not amble. Moreover, he would have already impressed upon the paper boy the importance of getting the morning paper all the way up on the porch. Where it belongs.


NYT: The modern man has no use for a gun. He doesn’t own one, and he never will.

MR: A Man’s Man owns at least one firearm. He knows how to use it, clean it, and store it properly. He understands it’s importance, and sees it for what it is - a tool that can protect him and his family.

Anyways. I love most of the stuff that MR talks about. I could watch that guys shows all day if I wanted to waste my time in front of a TV. His responses to the NYT article are great and for the most part a great example of RP thinking.


[–]1nzgs[🍰] 281 points282 points  (192 children)

Normally bluepill journalism is easy to ignore but that last quote about a real man not owning a gun is very politically revealng. A real man doesn't own a gun? Real men defer protection of their families to the government?

Could the connection between emasculation and statism be any more apparent?

[–][deleted] 118 points118 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Deep_Fried_Twinkies 67 points68 points  (18 children)

"Excuse me, sir, but you're intruding on my personal space by entering my house! If you do not leave, I will have no choice but to ask you stand here and wait 10 - 15 minutes for the police to arrive!"

[–]1nzgs[🍰] 31 points32 points  (5 children)

I'm British and pro-guns (which puts me in a very small minority) and this is essentially the stance of the government. We're allowed to use deadly force to repel a home invader, but we are not allowed to own any tool specific to that purpose, presumably to give the criminal a fair chance. So we are a nation of people armed with golf clubs and toy baseball bats while criminals are going around with machetes and handguns. And if an invader does have a gun we are supposed to just hide out until a few overweight police women arrive, hoping no family members are shot or raped.

[–]DaphneDK 17 points18 points  (3 children)

The police in Denmark have given up on going after burglars in private homes and small shops and such. They are not going to come round if you call in. In frustration some shop keepers have posted the camara footage of burglars on the Internet. This however is strictly prohibited on account of privacy laws and the police do seem to have the time to go after those shop owners breaking that law. #burglarprivacymatters

They may have given up on policing and the pretence of protecting private citizens, but private vigilance is always the last thing they'll give up on combatting.

Orwell always was my favorite writer. Here's his take on private gun ownership: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

[–]teet2greedy 2 points2 points [recovered]

I'd be really interested to hear your synopsis on Denmark. Currently Bernie Sanders is trying to package his campaign with the message that we need to be more like countries like Denmark.

[–]DaphneDK 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah. I read that. Clinton too apparently. What they seem to fail to understand is that you can’t have Denmark even if you wanted to, because Denmark and the USA are not the same kind of nations. Denmark is more like a tribe, whereas the USA is more like a nation state after the French model. Each have their particular strengths and weaknesses. The model in Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia allows for high level of social services (because it’s all family to some extend anyway – going back thousands of years, and the level of trust is extremely high), but at the same time it makes it very hard for immigrants to ever really become equally accepted members. On the other hand a nation like the USA makes it very easy for immigrants to become Americans. You can’t have it both ways.

In any case, the high level of migration to Scandinavia have made it a necessity to dismantle many of the social services people like Sanders are praising. More will have to go in the coming years.

[–]33a5t 10 points11 points  (0 children)

wait 10 - 15 minutes for the police to arrive!"

That's a pretty optimistic estimate

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 24 points25 points  (8 children)

In that time an inducer can have his way with your wife, some a cigarette, then go back in for seconds.

[–]anangryterrorist 17 points18 points  (1 child)

I like to give my intruder's the benefit of the doubt and would like to believe he'd be in the middle of his cigarette when the cops get him. He's already going to jail, no need to attack the man's pride.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Perhaps he only wanted a quickie, smokes fast, and the cops take the usual 35 minutes to four hours to respond... If at all.

[–]Ali_s1987 1 point2 points  (1 child)

"In that time an inducer can have his way with your wife, some a cigarette, then go back in for seconds." Be honest........did u take that shit from the san andreas talk radio station? :P

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Finally, someone gets an Ammunation reference. Yes, yes I did.

[–]pantsoffire 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The inducer? As in home or rape inducer? Does he induce orgasms or drama- perhaps both?

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Autocorrect results in done cunt some funny shit from time to time, especially when using the sewerpipeswipe feature.

[–]Philhelm 19 points20 points  (1 child)

A modern man should check his privilege. Perhaps the intruder doesn't have his own house because of white patriarchy.

[–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (0 children)

So how the fuck does this liberal idiot expect me to defend my wife and family if an intruder enters my house?

A gun-free zone sign, obviously.

[–]toaster10 8 points9 points  (18 children)

Serious question about how this becomes practical in the case of an intruder: you need to have the gun locked up to prevent your kids from accidentally shooting themselves, so where does one get the time to unlock the drawer/safe and grab said gun when someone enters your room?

I have no strong opinions about guns but do doubt their usefulness in some of these scenarios.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

http://gph.is/1bu4Y0Z But seriously, there exists small gun safes that use your fingerprint to open that can sit in your nightstand. Takes less than a minute to get it out. Faster if you practice.

[–]Philhelm 12 points13 points  (0 children)

That's why you need a couple of big dogs in order to buy some time.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I disagree about not-kidproofing guns. Young kids are irrational beings. You can (and should) teach your children to respect firearms, but that is a process that takes time. You don't get to fuck that one up.

All of my guns are in the gunsafe, except a handgun in the following: http://www.gunvault.com/minivault-gv1000s.html

Biometric safes are very expensive, and were (at least when I was in the market for one) somewhat slow. I can get into this safe, in the dark, in two seconds. The gun is ready to fire...one in the chamber, safety off. No one is getting in the safe except me or my wife.

I could also place it on the table and enter the combo in front of you a half dozen times and you still wouldn't know it. It's very, very effective and rather simple. I highly recommend one.

[–]surfjihad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wonder how many people who own this use "the shocker " as a password

[–]Senior ContributorDemonspawn 24 points25 points  (4 children)

you need to have the gun locked up to prevent your kids from accidentally shooting themselves

No. The classic mistake is to attempt to kidproof guns.

You can't do that. Your kid will find a way to find the firearm.

You have to gunproof kids. By the time I was 5 (old enough to find a hiding place) I knew not to touch my dad's guns. By 8, my dad showed me why I should never touch his guns (personal moment for me). At 16, knowing how to handle guns likely saved my life.

I've got a gun on my computer desk right now, loaded and chambered. I have no fear of any of my nieces/nephews touching it because I've trained them all (at my brother's and sister's request).

[–]Philhelm 18 points19 points  (0 children)

My mother complained about the fact that I own an M-4 since I have two small children. I asked how she survived since her father had several rifles since he liked to hunt. She responded that she wouldn't have dared to touch his guns, but she couldn't seem to connect the dots.

[–]1pluvoaz 5 points6 points  (2 children)

You have to gunproof kids

You're goddamn right!

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I just realized, as kids, we would go camping in a place that had a rock quarry, and we'd unload about 3-400 rounds into it.

Sorry kids these days, but life used to be fun!

[–]natman2939 8 points9 points  (4 children)

This shit has always driven me crazy. People talk about the responsible way of owning guns is to lock them in a gunbox which itself is usually in a safe

How the fuck does someone use that for protection?

Does the bad guy give a 15 minute heads up?

My personal solution: as a single male, I'll put my guns wherever I want to.

When I have kids, I probably won't have guns other than hunting stuff which will be in a safe

I've heard too many stories about kids getting their hands on guns and that's just too tragic (accidently shooting themselves or someone else)

When a friend had guns in his house around his daughter and they weren't locked up I was not very happy, and all this "train them" bullshit and all this "believe me, they'll learn good and well never to touch my guns (cause I'll turn their asses red as a firetruck)" doesn't cut it

You're assuming that tragedy moment won't happen before you manage to teach them.

You're also obviously also just not familiar with kids. They don't do reason and logic worth a shit, and the stuff they're not supposed to touch always becomes the stuff they want to touch the most at some point

That's my opinion on the subject, I'm sure the red pill won't like it but a man's man doesn't hide his thoughts or change his thoughts because he's worried about what others will say

So we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one

But that friend I mentioned (a little closer than a friend but specifics arn't necessary) was a wigger, living in a nice area that really had no need of that shit and was only doing it cause he had a serious problem with himself not feeling like a man (apparently guns and jewelry helped at the time---luckily his drug addiction lead to pawning or selling that stuff so the little girl is not at risk anymore)

And maybe my thoughts would be different if circumstances were different (tougher neighborhood, more disciplined man)

But some people don't need guns. Period.

[–]Senior ContributorDemonspawn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're also obviously also just not familiar with kids. They don't do reason and logic worth a shit, and the stuff they're not supposed to touch always becomes the stuff they want to touch the most at some point

The secret behind solving that is you let them touch it: under your direct supervision when they ask first. That changes it away from "forbidden object" to "tool that needs supervision" like my dad's power saws.

[–]Shotgun_Sentinel 1 point2 points  (2 children)

How the fuck does someone use that for protection?

Not every safe is like some giant cartoon monstrosity you see on TV. They make small quick access safes that are secure from kids, but quick enough to be useful. V-line and Fort Knox make these.

I've heard too many stories about kids getting their hands on guns and that's just too tragic (accidently shooting themselves or someone else)

Those stories are still in the minority of incidences. You are also more likely to be assaulted in a home invasion than be the victim of an accident.

When a friend had guns in his house around his daughter and they weren't locked up I was not very happy, and all this "train them" bullshit and all this "believe me, they'll learn good and well never to touch my guns (cause I'll turn their asses red as a firetruck)" doesn't cut it

Accept it has for years, my Popsi kept a double barrel behind the door. I never touched, and I assume it was loaded too. I knew what would happen if I messed with it, and it kept me away from it and safe. Millions of gun owners have this experience.

You're also obviously also just not familiar with kids. They don't do reason and logic worth a shit, and the stuff they're not supposed to touch always becomes the stuff they want to touch the most at some point

Which is why you address it with controlled exposure.

But some people don't need guns. Period.

Thats not for you to say.

[–]natman2939 0 points1 point  (1 child)

that's not for you to say

Then who? Some morons really don't need guns, the type of people who might pull it out just cause someone flipped them the bird in traffic

Who should say these people don't deserve a gun (assuming evidence hasn't properly been compiled against them yet)

Don't say "the government" and make me puke. They can't get shit done. The motherfucker could've shot up half a city before they agreed to anything

[–]Shotgun_Sentinel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who should say these people don't deserve a gun (assuming evidence hasn't properly been compiled against them yet)

The courts after they have proven themselves dangerous.

The danger of one lone gun man is quite small and not worth fretting about.

[–]Whirly315 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My dad has a badass night stand that conceals a gun in the side of it. It's completely locked and safe... But with a handy hidden magnet and a bump of the fist, it pops open with a loaded berreta ready to go. It stays locked unless the magnet is put in a particular place that only the men of my house know

[–]Shotgun_Sentinel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They make quick access safes that take seconds to open. If you secure your house properly it should take no less than half a minute to break in, giving you plenty of time.

[–]Entrefut 5 points6 points  (0 children)

As soon as NYT funds lightsabers, I'll get rid of my gun.

[–]SabaBoBaba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I prefer my reproduction Winchester Model 1897 at the bedside. I keep it cruiser ready for safety so if the sound of racking a shell does not send an intruder immediately running the hail of 00 buck will solve the problem.

[–]C0wb0yTr0y 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This article was written by a giant pussy.

[–]moose_war 37 points38 points  (13 children)

"Ha you have all those guns, YOU MUST HAVE A SMALL PENIS!!!!!"

That about sums up the blue pill reaction to gun owners.

Funny thing is, many gay and "queer" people carry guns and so do several feminists I have seen.

[–]natman2939 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I actually chuckled aloud when I came to that part

It's one thing for media to show a little bias and libs are always trying to manipulate but Ha Ha Ha... Seriously? A man has no need of a gun, doesn't own one and never will.

Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

Leave your personal agenda at the door, for once in your stupid life.

It almost seems the whole article was leading to that nonsense

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Leave your personal agenda at the door, for once in your stupid life.

They literally can't. They're literally, physically incapable of doing that.

[–]1seenoeval 32 points33 points  (1 child)

A Man's Man, doesn't write for the New York Times, because real journalism in the mainstream media has been dead for decades.

All writers should be required to post a picture, my guess: http://i40.tinypic.com/5a40i1.jpg

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (2 children)

Yep. Indoctrination as it's finest. When the guns are out the Gov. can start it's cleansing project.

[–]crestingwave 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"Cleansing project". Shit, do we need to build a bunker now to be a real man. Should I fill it with canned food and a laminated copy of The Constitution?

[–]getfuckingreal 16 points17 points  (0 children)

[–]malignantbacon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is an acid-trip-level peak. Excellent insight.

[–]HighVoltLowWatt 2 points3 points  (4 children)

The fuck does a gun have to do with masculinity anyway? If anything the obsession with firearms is a compensation. Own it, master it, and use it wisely, but don't connect masculinity to owning or not owning a gun.

[–]Philhelm 20 points21 points  (0 children)

The masculinity comes from the idea that a man is responsible for his own safety, as opposed to being reliant on government protection.

[–]Shotgun_Sentinel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is masculine to have knowledge of how a tool works, and how to apply it to its purpose. Just like not knowing how to use power tools or how to fix things around the house is seen as the opposite of masculine.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–]HighVoltLowWatt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

so you: Own it, master it, and use it wisely, but do not connect it to your masculinity.

Some people do, like the author of the article. He thinks its MORE masculine to not own one.

[–]anything2x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't own a gun because I live in NYC and it's just a pain in the ass. However, I have shot and can operate many types of firearms with proficiency. Now if I lived in an area that was more open to owning firearms would I have an arsenal? No, because I'd rather spend my money on other things but more power to the people who want to own guns. What the fuck does owning or not owning a gun have to do with being a man?

[–]scrantonic1ty -1 points0 points  (8 children)

As a non-American (yep, they exist), I'll refer you to Jim Jefferies who puts the whole issue much better than I can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

[–]1nzgs[🍰] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Gun crime is caused by social degeneracy, not guns. For some reason I don't find fat left-wing comedians funny. This guy needs to explain why Switzerland has equal gun crime to France and Germany, despite having high gun ownership, since apparently guns cause gun crimes. He also needs to explain why gun crime has only gotten worse in the UK since guns were banned, and he needs to explain why gun-control Mexico has more gun crime than American states that allow gun ownership. Someone with half a brain would put 2 and 2 together and come to the conclusion that maybe gun crime is a result of general degeneracy (family breakdown, unemployment, poverty, lack of opportunities), and people don't just start shooting each other when they have guns just as we don't all stab each other when we all have knives.

Unfortunately all those examples are inconvenient to the leftist narrative.

[–]scrantonic1ty 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You obviously don't know much of Jim Jefferies if you think he's left-wing.

people don't just start shooting each other when they have guns just as we don't all stab each other when we all have knives.

Some people, like crazy people, do. The difference is here in the UK it's very difficult to channel that crazy into murdering a dozen people in a public place. We have a lot of knife crime, but an incident of a crazy guy with a knife is easier to contain and minimise casualties. One in recent memory was when a disabled ex-serviceman was decapitated by a Muslim extremist on the streets in broad daylight, it shook the nation, and there was only one death. It seems like every month in America a dozen people are slaughtered in some massacre or another. Cops are killing people in their droves every year. It's getting to the point that reports of a bunch of kids getting slaughtered at school or a black guy getting shot in the back provokes little more than a sigh and roll of the eyes from the rest of the world.

There's no need for any of it. Social degeneracy isn't significantly worse in the US than the UK.

[–]Shotgun_Sentinel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We don't care about anomalous tragedies here because they are just that anomalous. There are still massacres in the UK and Australia at the same rate as you had before your gun control. Hell in the UK you just had a near miss with a mass shooting, but he got caught before he could carry it out. He still got his guns though.

[–]Shotgun_Sentinel 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Jim Jeffries bit is filled with ignorance and logical fallacies. Its people like you that make comedy something that has to be analyzed.

[–][deleted] 98 points99 points  (11 children)

That article is seriously sickening. Its so over the top that I'm almost positive its an intentional bit of "trolling journalism" that's designed to illicit a negative reaction. The NYT knows how their bread is buttered these days. Its not from selling subscriptions, its from social media shares and viral buzz.

Mike's responses are top notch but you might as well be replying to a bottom-shelf tabloid at the grocery store checkout. Why give this tripe more exposure?

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (6 children)

It's not trolling, it's just written tongue and cheek, but even regular bits of humor are now all thrown under the umbrella of "trolling". It isn't meant to be analyzed and taken that seriously. It's a bit of fun, is all.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Nah, there will be a commercial motive behind this.

A lot of websites use any publicity to get clicks and attention these days. And, as CGPGrey says, stuff that pisses people off gets a lot of attention. Gamergate was another example of this.

[–]LuvBeer 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Yes, but a bit of fun these days is always confined to certain topics. Imagine the NYT or BBC poking a bit of fun at inept blacks, lazy Mexicans or mentally ill transgendered people.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, those topics are definitely taboo, and there may be a double standard, but I can imagine a female writer penning the same piece about the absurdities of the modern female as well.

[–]Joseph_the_Carpenter 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think it's a statement that it can be taken seriously instead of with humor but I don't think they were going for that level of meta-humor. Good humor is humor that you know is funny.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Considering it is the NYT, I think the author definitely was going for humor with a little touch of truth, and the title, The Modern Man was meant to ironic, or even a little insulting to their audience. They write for their audience, big-city yuppies, not some redneck in Alabama.

  1. The modern man listens to Wu-Tang at least once a week.

It is just the musings of some 65 year old limp dick man. I mean, c'mon. It isn't a serious article.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just a liberal hipster pussy trying to justify his life by claiming to be the archetypical modern man, no different really than Hal the posts here about what an alpha is.... Well except the guy in the article probably fully lives the liberal hipster life that he expouses, lol.

[–]drfinnn 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This is so true. Honestly that article just seemed ridiculous when reading it. Half the stuff barely makes sense. Plug in your kid's phones? There are outlets everywhere and as a college student I can confirm that the younger generations are definitely obsessed with their phones anyways. Amble half naked to a crisp newspaper? Sheer confusion robbed me of words on that one.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Amble half naked to a crisp newspaper? Sheer confusion robbed me of words on that one.

Same but that one just clicked for me: "Newspapers are still a relevant form of media to the modern man!!" - NYT, newspaper

[–]ISODAK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The NYT as a whole is practically bottom-shelf tabloid these days.

[–]_TheRP 317 points318 points  (36 children)

Real men do X, Y or Z is always a bunch of bullshit.

Real men do whatever the fuck they want.

[–]LuvBeer 12 points13 points  (0 children)

True, but sometimes you don't particularly want to go to the gym, make that sales call, do that approach, or look after your kids but you do it because you know it's what needs to be done.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 21 points22 points  (3 children)

[–]BlueChilli 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I gotta say. I agree that 'a real man never tumblr'.

[–]gg_s 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Improper use of Google autocomplete.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 98 points99 points  (14 children)

Pithy, but not inherently true. Marrying a single mother of 4 children from 4 different fathers, while being 200 lbs overweight doesn't make you a man by anyone's measure. Even if you stand by the fact that it's what you really want.

Real men are masculine. Masculinity isn't wholly subjective.

[–]Baldr209 6 points7 points  (0 children)

the the guy is coming from a place of strength and abundance (he he has value and knows it, has options and knows them isn't afraid of what will happen if he says no. etc.) he can do and be all those things and still be alpha. odds are slim it would ever happen but it's not impossible.

[–]_TheRP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Even if you stand by the fact that it's what you really want.

The way you phrase this makes it clear that in this fictional world that it isn't what this fictional version of me really wanted, I'm just telling myself it is because I'm a +200 pound loser. That's a fair enough assumption in your over-the-top example, but say it was what I really wanted - in that case I wouldn't give a shit what you thought.

Edit -

I've thought a little more about this and I think I can articulate better. You used an example of something no reasonable person really wants to make your point. In your fictional world +200 lb me isn't doing what I want, I'm coping out because I'm a giant pussy. People in the real world want fame, fortune, sex, money, success and so forth - they don't want a shit-hole life. Alpha men go about getting those things regardless of what other people think, Beta men cop out because of laziness, judgement, self pity, or a whole host of other bullshit reasons.

A better way to say it would be Alphas do whatever they want in order achieve their goals. That was the point I was trying to make initially, my wording might not have been perfect.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A better way to say it would be Alphas do whatever they want in order achieve their goals.

That is the nuance that distinguishes it from the poor advice given earlier. Most people "do whatever they want" by sitting on the couch getting high and watching Netflix. Doing what you want while without impeding your personal goals is the Alpha (re: attractive) behaviour.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That guy doesn't go where he wants because his whale of a wife doesn't let him.

[–]Senior Contributorveggie_girl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just like AWALT. All men are similar in what they don't desire. Nobody wants a landwhale gf, nobody wants to be a fat piece of human excrement, nobody wants to get shit on by everyone else... Of course, men settle all the time and end up where they don't want to be all the time.

"Real Men"™ is a funny thing. I think we can easily define what a Real Woman would be, but when it comes to men there is so much bullshit propaganda out there (Such as the NYT article, and even Mike Rowe) that people are just left in confusion.

[–]ItsCold_ItsCold 6 points7 points  (1 child)

People the point of this comment is that even a fat gamer is better than a fat white knight who lives to kiss women's feet. Don't read everything in such exaggerated contexts.

[–]moose_war 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Real men do whatever the fuck they want.

Yeah but at the same time I am not going to give a thumbs up to a chubby nerd who has no desire to lift weights.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

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[–]Redasshole 0 points1 point  (6 children)

part of being a man is doing what you have to do and not what you want to do. doing whatever you want is by no mean the measure of a man but the one of a child. alpha males do whatever they want precisely because their willigness to do what they have to do instead of what they feel like doing frees them. don't mistake the freedom of doing whatever for the real freedom.

[–]_TheRP 0 points1 point  (5 children)

doing whatever you want is by no mean the measure of a man but the one of a child.

Bullshit. Using the right to do whatever you want to be a lazy piece of shit is what lazy pieces of shit do, but it's still a right that all Real MenTM utilize to meet their own goals.

We're all different, what works for some doesn't work for others, so the only trait that can be ascribed to the successful is that they do whatever the fuck they want so long as it works for them.

[–]Redasshole 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I don't know man, women does whatever they feel like doing and they are not "real men"..

[–]_TheRP 0 points1 point  (3 children)

You're not getting it.

The idea of Real MenTM is fucking stupid, there is no such thing. There are dominant, successful men, and there are pussies. Alpha and Beta. There is not such thing as a Real ManTM (That was the point of the " TM ").

Alphas control their own world and don't give a shit what other people say they should do, although they do what is required to meet their goals. Betas give a shit. Alphas do whatever the fuck they want, Betas look for validation from other men, women, children, or websites.

[–]Redasshole 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Ok I get it, you're talking about validation. They do whatever they want without caring what other people thinks -> they do not base their actions or choices on what other people thinks. We weren't talking about the same thing. But I also disagree with that. What you say is "if I want to go talk to that girl, I will", "if I want to not get married I won't". I'm ok with that. However, it's foolish to say there is someone who doesn't take into account what other people thinks. Think about the game of power.

[–]_TheRP 0 points1 point  (1 child)

However, it's foolish to say there is someone who doesn't take into account what other people thinks.

I agree with that. Like I said, you still have to do what is required.

I think the better way to say what I was trying to get at is real men (Alphas) do whatever they want in order achieve their goals.

[–]Redasshole 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Allright! Your last sentence was a delight to read.

[–]yaardi 18 points19 points  (3 children)

A Man’s Man does not make lists. He knows what he likes, what he needs, and what he wants. If he has to write it down, he understands it was not worth having in the first place.

What? I always make shopping lists when I'm going to be buying more than a couple of things. Guess I'm not a real man.

[–]joekrozak 26 points27 points  (0 children)

You worthless piece of slime. Mike Rowe always remembers the eggs. Always.

[–]tallwheel 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah. Exactly. The man's man is gonna feel like the fool's man when he gets home and realizes he forgot to buy a necessary ingredient for something he or his woman was planning to make that night. The man's man realizes human memory is not perfect, and is humble enough to utilize necessary tools like lists.

[–]ItsCold_ItsCold 35 points36 points  (1 child)

They just had to add their gun control crap.

[–]Endorsed ContributorSarcasticus 63 points64 points  (10 children)

Meh. The NYT article was written purposely to sell copy. The idea that "every man" follows some arbitrary list of rules is asinine. It's more so that women can have something to argue over and demand that their beta boyfriends start behaving this way.

So Mike Rowe's response? May be red pill, but it doesn't matter. You've failed the shit test by responding to the article as if it carried any weight.

[–]TheRealMewt 21 points22 points  (2 children)

You may think it's failing a shit test, but Mike Rowe is essentially doing what TRP did when this article first came out for the exact same purpose the last time it was posted - there are men out there who would model themselves after the NYT's concept of Modern Manhood if other modern men hadn't stepped up and protested that there are better ways to be men in this day and age.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 3 points4 points  (1 child)

there are men out there who would model themselves after the NYT's concept of Modern Manhood

Boys. Boys are the target audience to be stripped of their budding masculinity, steered toward feminine behavior and attitudes.

In the mid to late 1990s there were tons of media propaganda glorifying the metrosexual. Piggybacking a 5 year long Latin-craze (Ricky Martin) was a huge amount of articles, news stories, and op-eds telling men to wax their eye brows, shave their chest hair, color their hair, learn to salsa, and get in touch with their feminine side. None of this had any effect on grown men of course. But it did have an effect on boys. The mixed messages from the propaganda could arguably be tied to the rise of the emo subculture, which enjoyed a style of music that first appeared in the 1980s while seeking an androgynous aesthetic completely in tune with the times.

There is a time lag between when the Cathedral pushes new propaganda and when they reach a tipping point and become mainstream in the youngest generation, in sometimes unexpected ways. The propaganda demanded feminized men, boys capitulated and grew to fit that mold.

[–]pantsoffire 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And all the girls boys knew said "That's so cool." "He's so hot." "You should totally try that." So the boys feminized themselves and recieved temporary attention and validation. The masculine boys got a different kind of validation. The girls felt the egotistical throb of control. The boys felt lacking after their quick fix and went back for more. The masculines reached abundance reality.

I swear the majority of women want males to be in Black and White. After all, it would really make selection so much easier, thus offering them more time to focus on them selves.

[–]vezokpiraka 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I think having a celebrity respond to this is not failing a shit test. There are too many beta and white knights. Maybe some of them will read the responses and think about it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorSarcasticus 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I would argue that Mike Rowe also failed the shit test. Except he's a brand unto himself, and I think it's likely he's responding in the interest of promoting his brand.

Regardless, his response is equally as useless as the original article. "All" men don't follow some arbitrary list of pithy sayings, no matter who wrote it.

[–]vezokpiraka 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think we need more people that don't unplug forcefully after a divorce or break-up. We need more people that read stuff like this and start thinking for themselves.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

demand that they're beta boyfriends start behaving this way.

they're

You're the first person I've seen to use "they're" instead of "their". Usually it's the other way around when people get the wrong word.

I swear you did it deliberately.

[–]kragshot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read the article as satire. There was too much that just came off as snarky or tongue in cheek to be taken seriously.

[–]94redstealth 13 points14 points  (0 children)

MR: A Man’s Man is already a complete person. His identity does not depend upon sons, daughters, spouses, friends, or pets. He is not a loner, and he cherishes the relationships he has. But he knows that his “completion” is nothing but a reflection of knowing who he is.

This is a profound quote and the basis of TRP if you ask me. It exemplifies exactly what most BP betas struggle with when they first get here. As a father to a daughter it was hard to accept this train of thought, but it is the truth. My daughter does not complete me. I complete myself. Does my daughter add value to my life? Yes, more than any other person I know. Would I be sadden if she was no longer in my life? Yes. Would my life end if she was gone? No, I would continue on, as life tends to do.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You need to become a man but you're born a woman, because you're born a thing that will eventually reproduce. Because there's no implicit challenge to womanhood, they can get away with being called wonderful no matter what. There was no bad, so obviously they've hopped over.

Being a man is a real challenge though and so telling a man that they've already succeeded doesn't work. Doing that has the same fallacy as trying to respect a marine by claiming that everyone is already worthy of being called one. If you apply that concept of respect to men, it just dishonors the title.

Feminists write shit like this and genuinely believe that they're being nice, because they've never been challenged and don't know what it means to have and overcome one. The respectful message to a man isn't something generic like to make sure your daughter is tucked in. It's something hard like saying you need to learn to manage your family.

Making your own decisions is one of those challenges. A feminist male won't do that, which is part of why I respect him. Mike is damn right about what a man must choose, know, and how a man cannot bend to some feminist article's bullshit.

The attitude of calling everyone a male is a political ploy at best. It lets you hire Michael Kimmel and act like we've got male representation in gender politics. Articles like this reinforce the myth that Michael kimmel is a man.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 5 points6 points  (1 child)

A real man does not need a list of rules to tell him how to be Real ManTM . He learns the principles of masculinity when he is young, from older men, and then adapts them to his life and his mission. Then, when he is old, he teaches them to other, younger men.

That is all.

[–]Endorsed ContributorLastRevision 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A real man does not need a list of rules to tell him how to be Real ManTM . He learns the principles of masculinity when he is young, from older men, and then adapts them to his life and his mission. Then, when he is old, he teaches them to other, younger men.

Only that doesn't happen, which is ultimately why we're here.

How about this: a real man develops a deep confidence which allows him to rely on his own judgment in any situation, and handle whatever the fallout of that situation may be.

I feel that is the real endgame of The Red Pill, in regards to the self-development end of it.

The whole supermarket list/no list, or not plugging in your wife's cell at night is fucking retarded.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (4 children)

The modern man listens to Wu-Tang at least once a week.

This is the point where I realized that this article is probably a satire of "men do this" articles. I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Also, this bit of Mike Rowe's advice:

A Man’s Man does not make lists. He knows what he likes, what he needs, and what he wants. If he has to write it down, he understands it was not worth having in the first place.

You could just as easily say something like

A man's man doesn't bother filling his head with useless information. He organizes the things that aren't immediately important so he can focus completely on the present task.

All of this is just posturing.

[–]Flash_Bandicoot 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I don't know man. Wu Tang ain't nothin' to fuck with.

[–]NemoOfNowhere 3 points4 points  (0 children)

A real man makes niggas go bo bo like they're supercat

[–]haxurmind 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You mean a mans man does not use a shopping list?

The hidden agenda there is that by not using a shopping list, you end up forgetting stuff so have to go back and spend twice as long in supermarket aisles.

The incentive for supermarkets (and shops, etc.) is that you are more invested from time spent going to the supermarket, from which you then waste money on junk you don't need trying to 'make up' for the time wasted (or just because your hungry and in a rush to get some grub, never shop when you are hungry) on that second trip back into them.

/u/FRedington had an excellent point also IMO.

A Man's Man knows the limitations of the human condition and uses appropriate tools to achieve what he needs to accomplish.

I agree the articles are click-bait but the comments on them in this sub have made their existence tolerable.

[–]Raiden2 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Saw this on my newsfeed yesterday and shared it on Facebook.

My wife saw it this morning and could not stop laughing, got her to say she would never fuck a guy who did any of these things. Said she'd die if I ever tried to buy shoes for her and that she would jump in and help if someone broke in and was trying to kill us.

Mike Rowe is a man I look up to for sure. He's one of the last legitimate male role models who hasn't sold out to feminism and when challenged by them he is quick to dismiss. They want no part in the shit that he does (aside from reaping the benefits and getting to be above the blue collar workers who keep their lights on and their lululemon shipments on time) so he's pretty well in the clear.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ok, the grocery list is fucking stupid. "if you can't remember everything you need without writing it down, your not a man!"

Ridiculous.

[–]OnTheSpotKarma 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I guess Mike Rowe could start a software company and call it Mike Rowe Soft.

[–]FeeFeeFeaster 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Already happened.

MikeRoweSoft vs Microsoft

[–]OnTheSpotKarma 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, was that the same Mike Rowe?

[–]tquotient 2 points3 points  (0 children)

NYT: The modern man still jots down his grocery list on a piece of scratch paper. The market is no place for his face to be buried in the phone.

MR: A Man’s Man does not make lists. He knows what he likes, what he needs, and what he wants. If he has to write it down, he understands it was not worth having in the first place.

I make lists because I have a lot of shit to remember. I use either my phone or some paper, because either of those will record just fine. I know my memory's not perfect.

Why can't a "modern man" read a grocery list from his cell phone? I feel like using a cellphone would actually make a man more modern than that ol' pen and paper stuff.

[–]iamnotfromtexas90 16 points17 points  (1 child)

"(The portion regarding the wife is a bit BP but the sentiment of the rest of it is great)" I disagree, a man should take care of his wife in such ways--take care of her car, make sure house works properly (fix the leaky faucet), make sure her tech is up to snuff--while a woman should take care of her man--make him the food he likes, give him the space, but also the attention, he needs, and ... have sex with him.

But the rest of your post is gold. Perhaps even sticky worthy.

[–]yumyumgivemesome 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Not only that, but the part about teaching his kids to look after their belongings and plan ahead is beautifully juxtaposed with the terse reference to the wife. It very subtly makes the point that if she really needs that kind of help on a daily basis, then she has the foresight of a child but maybe be too set in her ways to learn better.

[–]TRP Vanguardnicethingyoucanthave 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Here's something I would like to say to the modern man: it's sort of like the inside of your cheek. Feels pretty good actually.

...I just assume he'd like to know what a vagina feels like.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You're being patronizing. I'm sure he knows what his own body feels like.

[–]gordjose91 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yo I have to write up a list for the grocery store though

[–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi 3 points4 points  (1 child)

And I got run up the Flagpole for posting a response to this?

le sigh

http://therationalmale.com/2015/10/04/27-shades-of-the-modern-man/

[–]arcaneadam[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly half the comments here are just chest pounding about how men don't even respond to crap like this. Whatever, right.

If we, men, don't speak out loudly and respond to bs then we risk a further declination in the overall manliness of society. That why it's important that guys like you, and mine Rowe, speak out when shit like this it's behind broadcast.

If doing so opens one guys eyes then it's worth it.

Keep fighting the good fight.

[–]piethon3 13 points14 points  (9 children)

They are steady trying to rid us of our guns. Fucking no

[–]3652 4 points5 points  (2 children)

If they ever pass a law banning guns completely... Who has to physically confiscate them?

Underwater welding would not be the most dangerous job anymore.

[–]piethon3 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They would probably just make it a crime to possess one and then it becomes tricky. I guess that's where the shit may hit the fan. I'd prob go out in a blaze of glory. I got them armor piercing rounds so if you are going to deny me my ability to protect my family I would consider you equivalent to someone attacking my family

[–]ThrowingMyslfOutther 2 points3 points  (0 children)

NYT: The modern man still jots down his grocery list on a piece of scratch paper. The market is no place for his face to be buried in the phone.

MR: A Man’s Man does not make lists.

Both wrong, a man's man has his main girl shop for him.

[–]7yphoid 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I appreciate this subreddit for preserving masculinity in an increasingly effeminate society, but I feel like every opinion is being categorized into the false dichotomy of "BP vs RP". It's a little simplistic to say, " Oh, this is a little too BP", and, "this is so RP, I love it!"

A Man's Man thinks for himself, and does not subscribe to any one way of thinking. He is not a democrat nor a republican. He is himself, and no one else. The only labels he gives himself are his name and his gender. He weighs and evaluates every new piece of information and every opinion carefully and impartially, and makes his Man's decision from there. He would never agree with something because it is the "Red Pill" way, he agrees with it because based on facts and evidence he knows (not believes, knows) it is right.

This is because a Man's Man never stops learning, and would never hesitate to change his mind when presented with new (and better) information. He is, after all, a beacon of truth in a vast sea of ignorance.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is modern supposed to be a euphemism for beta?

[–]berryfarmer 1 point2 points  (2 children)

A Man’s Man does not make lists. He knows what he likes, what he needs, and what he wants. If he has to write it down, he understands it was not worth having in the first place.

Opinions on this? I make lists all the time. Am I doing it wrong? Should I keep it in my head?

[–]Trail_of_Jeers 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I too make lists all the time.

[–]crestingwave 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, he backed himself into a corner by trying to counter all the items. People make fucking lists. Deal with it.

[–]tempusers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

|2. The modern man never lets other people know when his confidence has sunk. He acts as if everything is going swimmingly until it is.

Yet we have the some truth in there. Always maintain a frame of confidence. Anything less will be ripped apart by both women and other men.

[–]Ali_s1987 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That is by far the most pussy list I have every fucking seen..........that journalist needs to grow some balls. But if he had balls he wouldn't be writing for NYT! :P

[–]Ehcadroj 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The modern man is a total and complete pussified bitch. Reading that list made me grow a vagina; thankfully, I was able to cut it off in time.

[–]TheEnglishman28 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fuck the NYT. Owning a gun is something everyone should do where legal.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I make lists. Lists are helpful. What's with the hating on lists?

Best part is "self-reliance is born of experience".

There are few absolute truths in this world; that is one of them.

[–]some1onredditsaidit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey you don't say that about Dr Pepper.

[–]Skiffbug 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the part about the wife was meant to be a bit cheeky, as in the kids can learn from their mistakes, but with the wife, that's hopeless...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

New york times men seem like beta beeeeyatchez

[–]1Snivellious 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think casting "The wife is another matter" as BP might be unduly harsh. The alternative reading of that line is something like "She's too old to give her basic lessons in responsibility. Do it or don't."

He doesn't say "You totally ought to plug in your wife's phone", just says that you're not teaching her self-reliance. It's ambiguous enough that it could equally well be (quietly) RP.

[–]getfuckingreal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I prefer the Goldman Sachs version

[–]samzplourde 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sort of unrelated, but I absolutely fucking love Mike Rowe's position on and how he speaks about blue collar jobs.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A real man doesn't read or reply to any of this because he is too busy living life, fucking women, and building his career to waste time reading either article, let alone analyzing it on reddit.

[–]natman2939 0 points1 point  (0 children)

About Lists

"Men don't need list, they know they want"

That old cliche may be true about most types of shopping where men get in and get out while women tend to browse and overthink

But grocery shopping is an exception. For one because there's ingredients involved and fuck you if I have to go back to the store because I forgot one of the six items it takes to make this dish. And two because grocery shopping can often involve a lot of stuff If you've got a fantastic memory for little shit , good for you. Have a cookie I don't and I don't have time to memorize an entire grocery list because I don't want people to see me looking at a list (what the hell's wrong with looking at a list?)

But don't think I agree with you either New York Times, because fuck you and your "the grocery store is no place to be looking down at your phone, so modern men use paper" bullshit.

What kind of backwards ass thinking is that? I'm sure libs have a word that would be perfect for this like "technophobe" or something. (Or recently I've even heard some idiots saying its "ageist" to talk bad about modern tech and in this one case, maybe they're right)

Never say it's better to use lower grade technology just because. That is stupid, clinging to the past, "I'm afraid of change" nonsense.

If you have a valid reason why a lower tech should be used in certain situations, fine, but in this case you're argument doesn't exist. You're argument amounts to "because I said so" Or "because I don't like it"

A list is a list whether it's on paper or on my phone (which literally has an app just for taking notes---plus it's got this amazing new feature called texting which makes it to where people can literally just send me the list through the air like magic...isn't life swell?)

So you wanting to give people some extra attaboy for using paper instead of their phone is literally just hipster garbage

[–]herewegoaga1n 0 points1 point  (0 children)

God, I see this neutering of the male gender and I can't help but laugh. That shit don't fly in my house.

[–]thisornothing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hah. I love the point about not ambling to get the paper, but also - making sure the paper boy is crystal-fucking-clear that he has to go up the drive and drop it off outside my front door.

You're a boy, I'm a man. There's a fucking pecking order.

[–]1nrokchi 0 points1 point  (2 children)

NYT: The modern man still jots down his grocery list on a piece of scratch paper. The market is no place for his face to be buried in the phone.

MR: A Man’s Man does not make lists. He knows what he likes, what he needs, and what he wants. If he has to write it down, he understands it was not worth having in the first place.

A man should be is organized and disciplined. Preparation is vital to success, which includes having a shopping list before wandering around a store. Not only do you get what you need, but you save time--the most vital of all a man's resources.

[–]atlantic698 0 points1 point  (1 child)

making a list is a time investment wasted on those with a working memory. if you buy for yourself and you make a list your kinda a bp pussy

[–]1nrokchi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Life isn't as neat now as it will be when you're older with more responsibilities. Disciplined approaches early reap great benefits later.

Also, life isn't the distinct separation between what is Redpill and what is bluepill.

[–]garlicextract[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

MR: A Man’s Man does not make lists. He knows what he likes, what he needs, and what he wants. If he has to write it down, he understands it was not worth having in the first place.

Shit Mike Rowe, I'm not blessed with your godlike memory. I need to write shit down or save it in my phone to remember to pick up at the store sometimes.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mike Rowe spoke the truth about everything but the Oxfords, Good brogues like Allen Edmonds McAllister's are a piece of footwear every man should own. It goes great with chinos for being casual, or that suit that screams "I fucked your wife before she hit the wall and married you"

[–]Ikari_Shinji_kun_01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So if I have a shitty memory I'm not a real man?

[–]slcjosh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rowe is a good kind of dude to look up too. Charming, intelligent, willing to call bullshit, and emphasizes hard work and taking pride in yourself as a man. I'm glad he responded to that insanely horseshit article. Rowe is a rational voice in a sea of insanity.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah it's refreshing to see the guy's common sense in response to the NYT's vomit-inducing nonsense. god they're insufferable.

[–]1Jaereth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rowe shouldn't have gratified this thing with a response. Like he said about a man's man not giving a shit what the "latest" technology is. As a man yourself, you shouldn't give a shit what the "modern" hip sophisticated image of a man is or try to achieve it.

This article was like "Guide to posers 101". Next week's issue: Growing a beard that makes you look like a moron.

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