Red Pill Theory"Don't Talk to Women Like Men" (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Senior ContributorOmLaLa

TL;DR- Men and women communicate differently.

“Don’t Talk to Women Like Men”

Do NOT talk to women like you'd talk to men. Do NOT talk to them like you've previously talked to women. Talk to them in their language.

I'll explain.

Women communicate through actions and body language. What she says isn't inherently important. It's what she does that matters.

That being said, she's watching your body language and actions moreso than she's listening to your words.

Act like you don't want her and the rest'll follow. Let her rationalize things on her own. Don't try to think or conclude for her. It'll come off as pleading or compensating.

You must maintain this, even after you've met in person. DO NOT pay attention to the words she says. Watch how she acts. Watch her body language.

Is she positioning herself closer to you than normal?

Is her body pointed towards you more oft than not?

Does she keep eye contact?

Does she smile more oft than usual?

Does she touch you occasionally?


Women communicate this way i.e. covertly. They "talk" with actions and body language and read yours for responses.

If YOU'RE the one constantly keeping eye contact, sitting too close for no reason, randomly touching her, etc. she'll read you as too interested. Too invested. Too desperate.

Watch her and dial your body language two notches behind hers. Let her touch you more than you touch her. Touch her once to establish you're physically interested. This is required for some women so they know to proceed. Do it early so she has enough time to consider it.

If you're not juggling plates, let her believe you are. Look at your phone from time to time and smirk. Look at other women with her around and let her know you're looking. Let her know she's not the only women you're considering WITHOUT OUTRIGHT SAYING IT.

And all of this should be communicated without having to be said aloud.

Remember (please remember because this is literally the most important point here), women do not –I repeat- DO NOT communicate through words. Men do that. Women communicate through ACTIONS, BODY LANGUAGE AND INTENTIONS.

Meaning that if you say you just want to be friends but your actions and body language show that you actually want to bend her over the railings, she'll read into that and consider you a liar.

Just like if she acts disinterested, turns away from you, checks her phone every 2 seconds instead of talking to you and yet says she “loves you”, most men would take those words at face value because men weigh words heavily.

Break eye contact more oft than her. Let conversations die. Feel comfortable keeping silence between the two of you and don't worry about what she thinks about it or if she'll leave.

Trust me. She won't.

Make her start conversations more oft than you. Be blunt but not too forward. Don't smile often, only when it's deserved (i.e. when you actually think something's funny).

These are ALL strong frame indicators. THESE ARE WHAT SHE'S LOOKING FOR. This is why most girls'll say they "want to be friends first" on dating sites; they have to see signs like this before they can be sexual.

It's kind of like if you were dating in Saudi Arabia and every woman you came across wore one of those sheets covering their entire body. You wouldn't know what you were dealing with until you got to the bedroom.

Heck, some could even be guys!

So you might meet for coffee first to get a chance to check for curves under the sheet or a casual slip revealing some details of what's underneath.


Attractiveness is only half of it. You'll need strong frame as well, which isn't inherently apparent like physicality is for men.

The more she likes from what she sees underneath that sheet, the more likely she is to fuck you.

[–]rabbit_hunter 105 points106 points  (18 children)

Touch her once to establish you're physically interested.

This is so important. I've done it a few times without even realizing and before I knew it, they were touching my hand, holding my arm, pushing and joking.

I think women do not want to be shut down when they make the first move so they need some real sign from the man.

[–]199639 30 points31 points  (3 children)

I think women do not want to be shut down when they make the first move so they need some real sign from the man.

We talk all the time about how men have trouble getting confidence to approach, or how they fear rejection. Imagine how much more heavily this weighs on a woman's mind. OP was right that you have to play this "disinterested" game to seem that you're a catch, that you're better than her, but it's also important to still approach and escalate. If you leave that to the woman, you'll be leaving unhappy.

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

OP was right that you have to play this "disinterested" game to seem that you're a catch

Women oft encounter feelings of sexual cognitive dissonance.

You might have heard a would describe a guy by saying:

"I ____ with Johnny because I thought Johnny was ___, but...."

It's not that Johnny wasn't ____.

Johnny simply failed to remove the cognitive dissonance of their interaction.

He may have changed his frame to some extent or he may have done or acted in a way that was counter to her depiction of him.

Women do not like being wrong about something, and as such, will want and support any evidence that proves they were right about it, sex and men included.

That said, so long as there is clear evidence that you're actually the man she perceived you to be, she'll likely move past any shit tests or ASD she may have had.

[–]Kalidane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All I had written and deleted was rephrasing of the above.

It's very true and very important. Perhaps best understood after fucking it up once or twice and looking back at it.

You don't have to be some Chad guy of your imagining. Just be consistent in behavior and demeanor. Which I suppose simply refers to frame.

[–]redestofthereds 2 points3 points  (13 children)

So you do the touching first then?

[–]Turkerthelurker 9 points10 points  (1 child)

As u/OmLaLa stated:

Watch her and dial your body language two notches behind hers. Let her touch you more than you touch her. Touch her once to establish you're physically interested. This is required for some women so they know to proceed. Do it early so she has enough time to consider it.

Some girls may touch you first (especially if you are fit), but many won't be that forward. They will touch their hair, their neck, expose their neck, give you googly eyes, "randomly" keep looking your way - shit you recognize more with experience.

Either way, touching to signal interest is vital.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

OK What about the silence part?

This sounds so contrary to every instinct I have (which is probably while I always fail at dating).

When do you let a conversation die? When it's going towards topic that's not helpful to your goals?

Like if we are talking about if we have brothers and sisters, and the conversation starts degenerating to a story about how her sister was engaged to a guy she was living with for 6 years but then he left her at the altar, etc.

I'm guessing that's a good conversation to let die on a first meet or first date.

But now what about body language, do I stare off out the window or look down at her tits or what, lol. This problem probably has an obvious answer to you guys but I'm socially retarded.

EDIT: Bookmarked this post, thanks a million /u/OmLaLa!

[–]michael_wilkins 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Touch everyone when you speak to them, Men included.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 16 points17 points  (1 child)

This cannot be emphasized enough.

Touching people is a display of status and also dominance.

It shows that you are "allowed" and not afraid to do so and - depending on where, with whom and how - it even communicates something like "ownership" (lacking of a better word here) of a person to non-members of your group.

You should not overdo it and become all touchy though.

The next time you are with a very dominant man, carefully observe him and watch how and when he is touching people, including you. You'll see that he'll start right at the beginning, when greeting you and will keep doing so.

At some point try to counter it by just mirroring his gesture. You'll see that he will immedietaly "top" it. Like let's say his is touching your underarm and you reciprocrate by touching his. If he really is dominant, he will touch your upper arm then. You will also find, that he tries to always have "the last word" in this game.

There is also much to be found on the internet on that topic.

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

The next time you are with a very dominant man, carefully observe him and watch how and when he is touching people, including you.

I met a very famous and influencial politician a few months back.

From the second he introduced himself to me, he firmly gripped my shoulder, looked me square in the eyes, smiled, shook my hand hard and spoke in a booming, deep tone.

That moment really stuck with me. It made a very strong impression. And not just on me, but also on the people around me.

He commanded the attention of the room just by greeting one person. There was no question who was the dominant man in the room, all with a single handshake.

This is the type of impression I aim to leave on others and how RPers should aim to interact with women. Leaving the impression of Dominance. Unquestionably, swiftly, powerfully.

[–]1Mr_Badass 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Hugging them as a way to say hi when you meet them works quite well as first touch.

[–]CuntyMcFagNuts69 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Hugging is too casual, hand on the upper arm is the way to go. Works great in a loud setting and you need to get closer to talk

[–]SpeakerToRedditors 5 points5 points [recovered]

it really depends on how you hug them. I always huge below the tramp stamp mark.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I take it you are not very tall?

[–]SpeakerToRedditors 1 points1 points [recovered]

I'm 5'10"

I just like to huge on their ass

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trying to picture the motion in my head is hard, i would have to separate my hands while giving the hug

[–]rabbit_hunter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If your initial hug or handshake is simply friendly, it will be overlooked as 'contact' because it is a social norm. You should go back in with a light touch during conversation. Timing it well with a concerned remark or joke is very good signalling.

[–]momomotorboat 39 points40 points  (19 children)

It was hard for me to understand why talking with women, the gender that talks so much more, was counter-productive. It seemed like a rational conclusion that using what appeared to be their chosen medium was the best way to go.

I have come to realize that it's not the words that matter to women, it's the action of talking about their preferred topic, themselves, that they love so much. Venture into a topic a woman doesn't give a shit about and watch how quickly she shuts the fuck up, as opposed to men, who can entertain topics outside of what gives them feelz.

For women, talking is a way for them to let pour some of that pent up narcissism that flows like an overflowing dam from their souls. It's one of many ways they share themselves with the world. It's why they can talk for so long yet say so little, and why talking with them can be such a waste of time.

It was hard for me, but thanks to posts from folks like you, /u/OmLaLa, it's getting clearer.

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 27 points28 points  (17 children)

It was hard for me to understand why talking with women, the gender that talks so much more, was counter-productive. It seemed like a rational conclusion that using what appeared to be their chosen medium was the best way to go.

The next time you get a chance, sit back and listen to an average conversation between women.

They'll talk and talk, but the conversation will never go anywhere.

Women generally use conversation for a different purpose than men: to invoke feeling and empathy.

More oft than not, if a woman is telling you about a problem, she wants your empathy/sympathy and not a solution.

This is where men get confused.

Men don't speak as frequently as women because men speak for the purpose of factual communication.

They have a fact they are trying to convey for the betterment of themselves, the listener, etc.

Listen to two men speaking.

Usually, even if they're telling a story, it'll go something like this:

On ___ day, I did __, did _, __ happened and then I did __. Man, I now I know never to __.

They established a setting, a list of events, the ultimate conclusion of said events and a summary. Their speech is organized like an essay.

Why? To convey a message. Here's another one:

You'll never guess what I just did! I just __. It was _! I _, _, and even __. You've got to try it!

Same thing. You've got an introduction, a list of events and a conclusion relative to the listener.

Men hear a woman say "I've got a problem with __" and begin to formulate the best solution in response to her problem, while the woman was simply looking for solace and sympathy in response.

Hence the miscommunication amongst them.

Addendum: A perfect example, thanks to u/ZeroQuota.

[–]NotUpToAnythingGood 21 points22 points  (8 children)

This very reason is why I have trained my wife & four daughters to make it clear when they want sympathy/empathy or a solution.

They initially fought me on that but after some failed attempts to clear communications, they got on-board fairly quick.

[–]JanLul 11 points12 points  (0 children)

How do they approach you when they want sympathy/empathy?

[–]ChadThundercockII 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Can you expand on this please ?

[–]NotUpToAnythingGood 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Sure thing.

A few things to consider:

  1. I am that asshole who does know the answer more often than not.

  2. I also know how to find the answers I don't know

  3. Both of the above were demonstrated from the beginning

  4. I've only started going down the RP path during the last couple of years though I've demonstrated quite a few RP aspects over the last twenty years.

So what I did may not work for you (or anyone else) without adjusting it for your personality/demeanor/preferences.

What did I do?

The short answer is Pavlonian training. Pavlov taught a dog it was food time when he'd ring a bell. The dog would come and salivate for food even when there wasn't any if the bell was rung. Wife & kids were taught that comfort or solutions would be given when it was clear what they needed.

The long answer: I made it clear to them, absent any indications otherwise, that I am a provider of solutions and solver of problems. So I tried to fix everything they brought to me. Things like giving them the solution, showing them how to get the solution, teaching them etc...

Every single time. Whether they wanted a solution or not. This would occasionally make them angry at me. "You just don't get it" was heard a lot. So was "You're not helping!" What they didn't know was I did understand. As in poker, you never show your entire hand.

When I got them to that point, I typically said something inflammatory. Doing this has the benefit of breaking their frame so they will slide into yours. Some of the things I've said include:

  1. "I get it fine. I'm just not acknowledging it."

  2. "You aren't asking me for what you really want. You are angry because you aren't being honest with me and you know it."

  3. "Fine then, enlighten me"

  4. "What I am hearing is X. I think you want Y. Why aren't you asking me for that?"

Regardless of what was said, they'd enter into a discussion/conversation with me about what they wanted. Sometimes these were heated but the point was they were using words instead of thoughts & body language. Once there, it was me explaining to them that I am a guy. Fixing things is part of who I am. If they want sympathy/empathy from me, they have to be a bit more obvious about it otherwise I'll miss the subtle signals they love to send. With my kids, that turned into a nice discussion about body language and communication. With my wife, she expressed disbelief that it would be that easy.

On the flipside, any time I feel something is amiss, I will ask if there is something going on that I need to be aware of.

Nowadays, if they want comfort for a problem, they'll tell me straight up they are working on a problem and could use some reassurance (from me) that they can handle it. I'll offer my assistance but I won't force it upon them. That's BETA behavior. If they want my input for a problem/concern, they'll ask me for it.

My wife did eventually figure out what I did. She was not amused, lol. She called me out on it; said I took advantage of her. I shrugged my shoulders and pointed out that it neatly solved several issues for our family. Likewise, that method of training has been used for generations on people and pets. She told me I was an asshole (I saw the smirk on her face). I agreed. Then she told me it was one of the reasons why she loved me.

TLDR: I set communication parameters for my family so they could more easily / accurately get problem solving or comfort from me when needed. In return, I have a quiet, peaceful house.

[–]ChadThundercockII 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Very nice approach. This so obvious yet nobody figures it out. This needs its own post in married TRP.

[–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i find it a lot less hassle to just realize women are women and figure they want empathy more often than not than to try and train them to think like a man when it comes to this.

[–]throwaway320_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Flesh it out with some extra examples and it would make a fantastic post.

[–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i take the opposite approach, I always default to thinking they are seeking sympathy/empathy and I tell them if they want my help they have to ask specifically for it. in my experience, they want empathy and sympathy more often than they want you to actually give them useful advice on anything

[–]ZeroQuota 9 points10 points  (1 child)

[–]rockumsockumrobots 5 points6 points  (3 children)

THIS! Story of my fucking life. I used to listen to the women or feminized/emasculated men I know, who would tell me their endless tale of woe, or life story. I would dutifully listen and then either summarize with a conclusion (which their story was sorely lacking) or offer a reasonable solution and then wonder why they didn't have the mental faculties to realize the same. Obviously there is no reason for a summary or conclusion when you're looking for empathy.

Now I clearly understand that they're looking for empathy and don't indulge them. I could be fucking lifting or learning something, not sitting around and listening to your fruitless verbal vomit. Which leads to my principle that if you're not offering anything of value in what you say, then I will not indulge you with my attention, as that is cucking out my progress and is a beta characteristic.

[–]rpscrote 2 points3 points  (2 children)

In LTR game I have found that indulging their sympathy/empathy seeking is a great way to get the small portion of comfort necessary in LTR. It requires very little investment of time (since you shouldn't be LTRing a drama queen...) and makes you seem like their "rock" since you weather their emotional storm, then tell them "it'll be alright."

But I agree with you that I dont waste my valuable time on people who havent earned it. I won't listen to people I dont care about complain or throw pity parties.

[–]rockumsockumrobots 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That's a very good strategy, I'll employ this because I am seeking an LTR. You make this work where I failed because you understood that they are seeking empathy and treat it accordingly. Thus, you are being what all women want, a man who is fully in control of the situation, even in the midst of her emotional maelstrom.

You're not telling her how to "fix it," you are the fix. Which puts you in the frame you seek.

Thanks for the post.

[–]Jani1157 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This is my question, how the hell do you nip that in the bud. Just listening to her pissed me off, "just take the fucking nail out of your head."

Clearly we don't have anything invested I this girl, but what of one you do care about? Is it a comfort test to listen about her pain that's so easy to fix, or do we tell her "if you need to complain talk to your girlfriends about it?"

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is it a comfort test to listen about her pain that's so easy to fix

No, as this is an entrance into her frame or into "her world".

do we tell her "if you need to complain talk to your girlfriends about it?"

No, as this is a drop of resolve caused by her and as such, a weakness of frame.

Clearly we don't have anything invested I this girl, but what of one you do care about?

I may not be the one to ask, as all "attachment" I portray to women is artificial, but if you want to keep her around, you simply ignore th entire situation.

The male in the video should have gotten up and done something better with his time.

In doing that, he covertly shows his time is better spent doing __, and listening to her problems is valued lower than __. No argument, no fuss.

She may act upset in retaliation, but this is a shit test. Let her settle and, while still needing a source of emotional ventilation, she'll seek out her girlfriends on her own. All of this done without the need of confrontation.

[–]Rosenmyah 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh my fucking god, this paragraph is a goldmine that you just wrote here my friend. You just described 100% of the conversations that I hear at work between my female coworkers. You summed it up in such a perfect way.

[–]CuntyMcFagNuts69 160 points161 points  (6 children)

From a very young age, I always got extremely bored talking to women. Now that I watch their body language, holy fuck it's funny watching them try to justify their words

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_SQUAT 22 points22 points [recovered]

Could you give an instance where a woman tried to justify her words?

[–]loknarash 14 points14 points [recovered]

A RP woman doesn't give a fuck if you judge her past. A woman does, and she will avoid the topic as best she can, for if she opens her big mouth about it without thinking (which all women do 99% of the time), and more importantly, she is wondering what it feels like for your dick to push her guts around, she will try to justify everything she says for your approval.

In other words, any woman that wants to fuck you will justify her past, her idiotic nuances, her political viewpoints, her religion, and so on, while playing with her hair, giving strong eye contact, squeezing her inner thighs together, adjusting her seating position, facing you and/or closing the distance, playful pokes and touches, and so on.

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

In other words, any woman that wants to fuck you will justify her past, her idiotic nuances, her political viewpoints, her religion, and so on, while playing with her hair, giving strong eye contact, squeezing her inner thighs together, adjusting her seating position, facing you and/or closing the distance, playful pokes and touches, and so on.

In short, this is a woman's way of conveying interest, of getting her message across. Be open and aware of covert actions like these and you'll find the notion of understanding women in the heat of the moment a much less daunting task.

Women talk through an interpretive dance, a meaning behind each movement.

[–]AdonisHera 43 points44 points  (8 children)

Aloofness is key. I've learned to genuinely not give a fuck honestly. That's usually what works for a girl who is decently hot. It's all a game, don't be too serious, play to win

[–]Zaorish9 21 points22 points  (1 child)

The best RP advice I've read was "Play for the love of the game." Applies to so many things.

[–]RiouxDeJaneiro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rule #76: No excuses, play like a champion

[–]coffee_and_lumber 31 points32 points  (3 children)

Not giving a fuck simplifies and improves your life in other areas as well.

[–]billcosbyeatsbabies 32 points33 points  (1 child)

I find that not caring casts a huge net out into the world and reels in possibilities that you had never considered, simply because you didn't care to consider them. Girls, business opportunities, money, etc. Moneys a big one for me, I used to stress out about it and dream about what I'd spent it on. I look back at myself as the circus trainer looks at a monkey. Now instead of mentally masturbating about cash, I've learned about consumerism and how it fuels depression, so I just stopped buying things. Now I've got money stacking, essential things are paid and I don't feel the want to buy those things I used to fantasize about. In other words I stopped caring about money and it came running back to me.

[–]coffee_and_lumber 18 points19 points  (0 children)

With money, I think it's important to know who you are and what you actually want...or what is most important to you. Then you'll see money as a tool to make those things happen. Once I got going down the savings road, it became kind of addictive to stack that pile higher. It increases my potential opportunities in life.

[–]Donuteater780 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As well as that, simply seeming (or being) oblivious to a women seems to get them to try to escalate things, if only to receive a reaction. It's a great way for a wingman to move a womans focus on to the other guy as well.

[–]Assassin1476 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Watching women try and talk about something that usually ends up being a whole lot of nothing or them trying to rationalize their fucked up behavior with words and constant hamstering but observing their body language as it does the complete opposite is like watching a old, lagging chinese flick with horrible english dub with the subtitles written by a flustered 11 year old.

[–]varsitymack 54 points55 points  (13 children)

This describes the "too cool for school" approach, custom built for a dude that lacks the verbal or mental skill to wow the f out of a woman's brain. And it is her brain that you want to possess, the rest flows from there.

You CAN speak to a woman, and you should. You should listen very carefully to every word out of her mouth because it does matter. Women send clues physically and verbally. They use all the tools in their arsenal and you should too.

You can act disinterested and interested simultaneously, through your own words and body language. Ignore her words? Bitch says them for a reason. Listen, then reply by glossing over, changing subject or driving the conversation wherever you want it to go.

After 10 minutes of conversation, you should know everything about her, and she knows nothing about you. Get to know her, what motivates her, what she needs, what she wants, get in her brain, own that shit. Own her brain, you will own that pussy.

She exposed herself, you maintain mystery. You now know what makes her tick and where to take things from there.

Don't maintain eye contact? Ha. Stare the bitch down, not like a desperate creep, but as if you could take her or leave her and she's the lucky one to have you. Make her look away because you gaze into her soul... as if you had your way with her a million times and you already own that pussy.

That's game.

[–]trauma_gland 5 points6 points  (5 children)

It almost sounds like you go into interview mode on a girl.... How exactly do you go about "owning her brain."

[–]varsitymack 6 points7 points  (4 children)

In as sense it is an interview, but to just incrementally find out enough information to move the conversation forward, to get deeper, gather the coordinates and steer the ship. Informal and conversational, rattling off 20 questions would of course be a turn off.

Women love to talk, get them talking. Most people’s favorite subject is themselves, so not the most difficult of things. She wants to get things off her chest, she wants to confide in someone, whatever, she wants someone that truly understands her (don’t we all?)… be that guy. Not in a sissy way, your frame is boss, the benevolent dictator, you can take her or leave her, but you are genuinely interested in the moment and you are interesting.

A penis is easy to find… a dominant, intelligent and engaging guy that actually is interested in what makes her tick is rare. You become the unicorn, not just some trick that wants to get in her pants.

You own her brain by seeing into her, seeing through her, understanding her, caring and not giving a f at the same time. Go ahead and throw innuendo into the convo, should be fun, suggestive too (again, steer the ship). Use some featured parlor tricks on this forum in the process, take a piece of fake lint off her shirt, move the hair out of her face, etc, break all barriers.

Think engaging, interested, intelligent, empathetic and detached, simultaneously, with nothing to prove. Like the daddy she always wish she had.

[–]trauma_gland 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I like the way you explained that and it makes perfect sense. I've always been really good at getting a woman engaged and opening up. I feel that I have no problem getting her to talk because I usually do take an active, genuine interest. I think the problem is, I can come off as too interested and too eager sometimes.

So I'm wondering how exactly do you be simultaneously engaging, interested, but also detached and NGAF?

[–]GIFtoGasm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've always held this quote close to home to ground me....

'choose your battles that are worth fighting'

Same goes with interest.

Family member dies (much interest)

Co-worker called her fat (mild interest)

15 minute story about the clerk who was rude to her while she bought Starbucks (0 interest)

[–]Sephar 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Exactly. Eye-contact is extremely important during a conversation. What you want to communicate is that you're very comfortable with the situation and that she is nothing special. The trick is to be interested at some times and aloof at others. Make her think about it when she's in bed at night.

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Since breaking eye-contact is commonly being brought up (u/-jlrp, u/Acaicus, u/Red_Stranger, u/LukeMooney), I'll address it here.

When I say "break eye contact", it is under the scrutiny of context.

Once SMV has been firmly established, breaking eye contact to peer off at other quote "more important things" unquote signals a fleeting interest in her.

And yet, until you SMV is firm or in the context of preliminary gaming, strong eye-contact is important.


You're with a woman. You've been sleeping together for a week. At this point, your SMV is firmly in place. She holds eye contact with you, but you want to increase dread to avoid portraying over-investment in a covert way.

Breaking eye contact to watch the game or watch another woman walk by or to greet someone in cases lie these is warranted.

It covertly signals to her that she's not the most important thing in your life right now without saying a word.

Now if you're cold approaching or passive gaming, soul-piercing eye contact is the way to go.

The woman in question has little context of your SMV outside of your physique, and you're trying to convey a message of dominance by establishing your frame.

It's covertly saying, "I am leading this conversation" or "What I am saying/doing is important, so listen/watch."

That said, back to the established SMV example, another reason why fleeting eye-contact is useful is that it gives more weight to the messages you convey while holding strong, soul-piercing eye-contact.

If you held affirmative eye-contact with a woman every time you said spoke with her, it's impact on her would slowly decline.

Example being, I'll reserve soul-piercing eye-contact with plates for messages that need to be clearly conveyed and understood.

The messages I convey with strong eye-contact are the messages that stick with them weeks after.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You the man right now omlala - everything you say is pure gold. I hope this sweet spot you're in with your writing continues for a long time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

fter 10 minutes of conversation, you should know everything about her, and she knows nothing about you.

bitches love to talk about themselves. This is not a good idea. it just sounds like a one-sided interview.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I've had a few girls complain "you never laugh at my jokes". "Be funnier then" I tell them.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

A succinct and well written guide to body language. Such an easy rule to follow as well for the dudes starting out approaching or going on first dates with no clue.


[–]musicvita25 61 points62 points  (16 children)

From experience I want little to do with women outside of fucking them as possible.

I do not under any stretch of the imagination enjoy their company. This is female friends, cousins, even my mum. There I said it. I don't like socializing with my mum. She annoys me. FYI my mum is a massive feminist, and my dads an overweight beta. EDIT: She openly hates me. She calls me an arsehole constantly. But I don't take her shit. Nor do I like her.

Work wise my female staff have pretty much little responsibility. I interact with them daily, but very very minimally. They are all outsourced too. So no female distractions in the office.

I don't watch shows/movies where the female is the lead. I don't even listen to many female artists in terms of music.

The reason why? When I did the opposite, I was miserable and under the spell of the BP way.

Since doing that, my life has been far more logical, less stressful and a lot more fun.

[–]coffee_and_lumber 30 points31 points  (9 children)

The company of other men is far more valuable and educational. It's where you are supposed to be anyway. That or alone. It's why coming here to interact on Reddit is so much more different and...directly honest than other places on the site.

[–]mrdexie 9 points10 points  (8 children)

The company of other men is far more valuable and educational

Yeah I get the hype with being RP and all, but isn't this stretched too far? I know a great deal of women who are wise beyond their years and I know time spent with them would be very valuable. Women aren't inferior to men intellectually, but I feel like this is being suggested in this subreddit.

[–]tailspike 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Not so much intellectually inferior as they are misguided. Bigger Amygdalas with greater blood flow in the female brain tends to make them inherently emotional about <i> everything </i>. Every single thing they do has some feeling attached to it.

While this isn't evil, or even negative in a few cases, it's still radically different from how we think, and, given enough female company, will drive us up the fucking wall. No, we do not want to hear how they feel about gum stuck to their shoes. We want the gum scraped off, and the bitching done with.

[–]Enjoyitbeforeitsover 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It greatly varies, it's simply what you want to take out of that experience. I honestly don't know if I should be ok with the fact that I don't really have any chick friends. I mean I know women and some are coworkers but I don't like hangout occasionally with like a high school female friend. I do know a friend who does hang out with one but I doubt he's using her to go for other chicks. I doubt he's RP.

[–]1aguy01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are outliers of course. Humans have to have a degree of diversity to be adaptable as a apecies, but the bell curves for men and women are centered in different places.

[–]rztzz 0 points1 point  (1 child)

women aren't inferior intellectually, but they are less likely to be able to to articulate what led to a decision, ability to talk about concepts or trends rather than their own experiences, etc.

[–]1aguy01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They clearly are inferior on the whole, but individuals vary greatly.

[–]coffee_and_lumber -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No this is totally correct.

[–]CuntyMcFagNuts69 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Couldn't agree more. I love my female family members and always will, but my mom is the poster girl for Hamster/CC rider. It makes me sad but hey AWALT

[–]foldpak111 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I come from a petty family as well. My uncle and a couple of other guys in my family would undermine me. Then I took off for a couple of years and underwent extreme self-development. Came back in a perfectly tailored suit and 90# heavier. The females in the family endlessly shit-tested me. So yeah, I don't fraternize with them much.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Just like if she acts disinterested, turns away from you, checks her phone every 2 seconds instead of talking to you and yet says she “loves you”, most men would take those words at face value because men weigh words heavily.

Just as a note, the way to dial back from this is to exit the date and not call again because that shit is rude at best and nobody worth a damn has time for it.

[–]nia_kills 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DO NOT communicate through words. Men do that. Women communicate through ACTIONS, BODY LANGUAGE AND INTENTIONS

Indeed one of rp lessons: see what she does-not what she says.

[–]fingerthemoon 12 points13 points  (4 children)

This is why it's hard to fake alpha abundance and confidence, your body language will give you away. It's much easier to just become the alpha man you want to be, then you don't need to worry about trying to remember all that PUA stuff, it will just come naturally.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Almost the same amount of work in learning to pretend as in learning to be.

Fake it till you become it.

[–]Hoodwink 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Actually, I disagree.

I'm squirmy by nature from an entire childhood of emotional abuse, chronic shyness, and other shit. Even when I was confident about my answers and the topic - something my friends said really effected me. They said:

"No matter what I said, I looked like I was lying or making things up."

Sometimes, it's not about being a 'natural'. I'm sure there are a lot of others out there like I was who needed to learn these behaviors because they don't actually come to them when I'm in my zone.

[–]fingerthemoon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess we're all different when it comes to game and I was really just speaking for myself. We all have our own unique strengths and weaknesses to work on. I'm not a good faker but when I'm in the zone I've always been a natural with women. I have my blind spots though.

[–]evileddy 32 points33 points  (29 children)

I have a trick I always use when I can't read a woman's body language.

Offer a high five and keep your hand there a little longer.. if she gives you a high five and keeps her hand there.. she's attracted.

If she gives you a quick slap to your palm and instantly removes her hand.... ABORT ABORT

[–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (7 children)

These kind of "tricks" don't mean shit.

High fives are awkward enough as it is.

[–]LukeMcFuckStick 13 points14 points  (2 children)

There's literally nothing that's awkward if you're capable of bringing her into your frame and playing it off.

[–]Enjoyitbeforeitsover 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Might as well go for a thumbwar. high fives are awkard, and I hope I stop myself from doing then unless I'm at a baseball game with my younger brothers and their friends.

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points

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[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

The dexterous aspect of high fives isn't what makes them awkward.

Also handshakes are hard because it's common courtesy to look each other in the eyes when shaking hands, not to look at the hands.

[–]lono12 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

But you don't know the trick bro...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tricks are something whores do for money.

[–]icecow 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If she gives you a quick slap to your palm and instantly removes her hand.... ABORT

I abort after this sort of thing because I don't want to spend the energy and want to make sure I'm not deluding myself. Though I never was clear if this type of unconscience negative response resoundingly means it's done, or if it's on level with high level a shit test.

[–]foldpak111 5 points6 points  (10 children)

It's hilarious when you can tell a woman doesn't like you. At the first sign you simply just walk away.

[–]BaconEggsAndSleaze 18 points18 points [recovered]

It's hilarious when you can tell a woman doesn't like you.

It's not even a matter of you. Never take it personal.

[–]reigorius 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Always try not to take it personal even thougg women blame you in any shape or form.

[–]BlvckGod666 2 points3 points  (0 children)


It's not you as a person she doesn't like, it's your approach/bad game.

[–]foldpak111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I saw your response to icecow below. Couldn't agree with you more.

[–]icecow 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Not sure exactly what you meant there.

[–][deleted] 9 points9 points

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[–]icecow 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I thought you were saying that plus some kind of mystical icing.

Adding to what you said, if someone (male or female) manages to say something that makes me feel like shit (say they are irritated with me) I make it a point to watch them interacting with other people. Four out of five times they can quickly be observed being irritated by others.

[–]Enjoyitbeforeitsover 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you elaborate a bit? I don't get it.

[–]NaturalAlpha69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seems like a fool proof test m8.

[–]nicememeboss 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah this works if youre with a gay bro or something. High five will dry her pussy out faster than opening her legs in sahara desert.

[–]reigorius 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do the good old 'are your hands cold?' question and offer my open and warm hands see what they do. Works like a charm as girls hands are always colder than mine.

[–]Chinzon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm curious about this, how effective has this been for you?

[–]TrapDour 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like this, makes perfect sense.

[–]envious1986 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The high five is vey clever

[–]lagerea -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I get more intimate, holding hands. Take it or leave it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Very Nice post, but as someone currently living in Saudi Arabia trust it's not what you think. even with those sheets as you said (they're called Abayas btw) it's still very easy to judge her body language and actions.

[–]buddboy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you're not juggling plates, let her believe you are. Look at your phone from time to time and smirk. Look at other women with her around and let her know you're looking

This wont work. This is trying too hard to impress a woman, which you should never do. Even if she doesn't figure it out, on some level she will sense you trying to impress her, she will smell your desperation. Women are very perceptive and even if they believe your lie they'll sense your desperation.

Impress women. Never try to impress them

[–]Momo_dollar 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is probably very good for dating and seduction. Also don't forget the benefits of just being physically playful, emotionally piss them off at times, in a way treat them with banter and as if they're one of your lads, minus farting and really dumb shit.

I don't have FR's but from memory the most excited look I've seen in a girls eyes, outside of sex, is when they tell me "your crazy" but their face is ecstatic , or when they call me a "dick/asshole" but I know its all good still.

[–]Chinzon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is exactly the kick in the ass I needed. There was one girl I've been interacting with, and I forgot to place more weight on action over words. She likes my attention, but doesn't provide much in conversation. I'll distance myself for a bit, and if that doesn't help then I know it's time to next her.

[–]azevedro 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Cheers for the post, it's informative.

Sometimes I have trouble reconciling the idea that women signal intention non-verbally rather than verbally. It's baffling, sometimes, to see a woman say nothing but signal interest. It's just weird, given that what they say doesn't hold weight but it's how they behave towards you.

It's also very interesting to see how every woman uses this style of non-verbal communication, it seems practically hardwired into their brain.

Also, reciprocating touch is extremely effective, that's a given, but how much touch is just the right amount? If a woman touches you, should you immediately respond back with your own touch, and more importantly how much physical contact do you return her after that?

[–]Upvote_To_The_Left 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Some guys can naturally communicate with women in "their language" other guys like myself spend years figuring it out.

One of the best skills you can learn is now to

a) stop being nervous around women

b) learn how to speak their language

c) use A and B to get laid!

[–]redarkane 10 points11 points  (9 children)

is this really all worth it? jumping and putting ourselves through hoops constantly adapting just to get some tail?

idk man. this just seems like just another added layer of stress. I wish I could just be myself around a woman and have her want me. But nah, I need 6 figures, be able to mind-read, and be 6 foot plus with a girth-endowed dick.

I'm so done with western women.

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 14 points15 points  (2 children)

is this really all worth it? jumping and putting ourselves through hoops constantly adapting just to get some tail?

Worth it? All the time and energy it'll takes just for some sex? No. But if sex is really something you want, due in part to the feminist-biased society we live in and the nature of women, it's what's required.

[–]reigorius 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Bullshit. Just be realistic and accept your current value. If beer-bellied 35 year old John Wankalot desires models, yeah, your advice is appropriate. But a nice girl with okay tits, body and personality will do just fine for sex. You don't have to be Mr. Perfect to attract these girls and have plenty of sex. Perfection is unobtainable as it is non-existent.

Before someone goes off, this doesn't mean to strive and work hard to obtain that ridiculous masculine perfection and corresponding life. In the long meantime, pluck the lower hanging fruits.

[–]maadkekz 14 points15 points  (3 children)

I wish I could just be myself around a woman and have her want me

Let me be the first to say, in a direct male way you will come to appreciate, that you need to drop this pussy Beta attitude.

You are the prize and these bitches have to earn the god damn privilege of your dick, not the other way around with you trying to chase them. They have to earn every inch.

The world isn't a Disney or some cheap Hillary Duff movie, you will get left behind unless you fully unplug yourself. Hit the gym, get a hobby, learn a skill valuable skill like coding - improve yourself.

Build it and they will come.

[–]TrapDour 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Well put! I was telling my flat mate this recently and the brought up the point that in most mating scenarios in nature, the male is trying to court the female, not the other way around. What would your response be to said statement?

[–]elevul 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In most scenarios in nature the male doesn't have to provide for the female to be successful at reproduction.

[–]maadkekz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's true, but we don't live in a (literal) jungle do we? We live in a more subtle one that is rarely spoken of; a sexual jungle where women hold all the aces.

I'm firmly in favour of reclaiming men's rights and breaking down these feminized, preconceived ideas of what a man 'should' and 'shouldn't' to do get pussy.

Time and time again stories on here suggest these don't work anyway. What women say they want a man to do (in courting her) is completely different to what they actually want - they react positively to negging, being made to split bills, etc.

[–]Zaorish9 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Everyone has to decide for themselves if it's worth the effort. God knows 24.7 potato chips and video games feels great. But just think of the arabs and mexicans beating their women and multiplying like rabbits while europeans, japanese, and americans die childless.

[–]reigorius 27 points28 points  (0 children)

You went off into a weird fucking tangent.

[–]iSnORtcHuNkz69 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Everything you say but bitches DO remember every word you say AND misinterpret them in their own comprehension. Say nice sweet assertive commands and youll do fine.

[–]NowBecoming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Perfectly stated. Sidebar material imo.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn. This is a solid post. I agree with everything you just typed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is beautiful stuff, /u/OmLaLa.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good post. This is what 'Senior Endorsed' should stand for.

[–]uxl 2 points3 points  (2 children)

In a way, this actually seems backwards to the RP tactics I've been (successfully) using...I mean, I thought kino was all about getting as much physical contact in as possible? My game has been acting 25% bored, 25% annoyed, and 50% amused, with an abundance mentality and lots of overt sarcasm and teasing. But I maximize contact and touch through it all. This post seems to suggest I should back off on the touch?

Then again, I'm just reading and responding quickly at a drive through, maybe I missed something, heh

[–]563967325 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It may be that you can touch back if she continues with good body language.

[–]Organicdancemonkey- -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This post is focused more on relationship game than pick up, with obvious shades of grey to both sides.

[–]-jlrp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some important points in this post.

I'm not sure if I agree with the part about eye contact. I always thought you want to build up the sexual tension between you and her. Eye contact seems like the best way to do that.

[–]trinitys_dildo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really like the overall message thanks for another great post OmLaLa.

However I struggle with some of the advice:

...dial your body language two notches behind hers ... Break eye contact more oft than her. Let conversations die. Feel comfortable keeping silence between the two of you and don't worry about what she thinks about it or if she'll leave

At least in my case I think doing things like this make me behave unnaturally. As we keep telling each other girls are very good at reading people and body language, better at it than us. They can pick up the slightest hint of incongruence.

Lately I've been trying to speak more slowly and calmly and pause between sentences. I think it's stopping me from being in the moment and making me too robotic/calculating and I think the girls pick up on this.

Instead I'm now focussing on having a calmer state of mind and self generally which should also affect how I speak and interact.

[–]reigorius 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could you explain 'Intentions' with an example. The only way for me to gauge a girls intentions is to listen to what see says.

[–]Acaicus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In one of the earlier guides I read that you should always keep eye contact and never ever be the one who breaks it first because that's how you assert your dominance. Here it's the exact opposite. Neither one works for me anyway, but I am still curious.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think everybody should read "What Every BODY is saying" by FBI agent Joe Navarro.

It's just a straightforward primer in reading body language from the feet, to the torso, to the arms, to the face. It provides differences between men and women.

It's served me quite well in my relationship, business and personal interactions. It's spooky how accurate it is, and the ammo that reading a person can provide you with.

[–]PyjamaTime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh my god, REALLY? I hope there's mutual attraction and compatability, not just manipulation. See here's the thing - if this strategy gets you the girl, is the girl mature enough to be a strong and wise partner for you?

[–]Red_Stranger 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Some of the advice contradicts the usual of holding strong eye contact or kino.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was thinking that - I make them breAk eye contact first nearly all the time

[–]NaturalAlpha69 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's solid advice to the guys here who take this too extremes and come off as desperate.

[–]akjoltoy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Attractiveness is a lot more than half of it.

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's actually only a third of what determines one's SMV.

[–]NaturalAlpha69 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You plagiarized the sheet analogy from Pook, but apart from that, not bad.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (16 children)

A tinder girl stopped half way thru sex and left my blue balled. What does that mean in terms of her actions? Is it ground for dismissal?

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 4 points5 points  (15 children)

Why did she stop? We need more information. At the very least some context.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (14 children)

I stopped to change positions and she said she was tired. Nothing more was said. When I ask her to finish me off she refused politely. It's weird. It's like sex for me was not important to her. I don't get it. If a girl doesn't care if you finish then I guess she doesn't care period. Right?

[–]HS-Thompson 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It means you're not good at fucking. Or you weren't that night.

You failed. Try again on the next one.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Sounds like she got bored right there. Probable alpha widow.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I think you are right. She told me she was head cheerleader in highschool so I know she fucked the QB of the football team at least.

Yeah Alpha Widow sucks. They can't get their head out of their asses.

[–]icecow 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It sounds like a flat blowout. However, I've had a relationship where she didn't care about sex, and besides the dwindling to nearly non-existent sex it was a good relationship. If that works for you it's totally possible. It doesn't work for me. It's not like you can start fucking other girls on the side to pick up the slack and expect a typical relationship to hold up it. So, it's simple, just don't go there, or stay only long enough to know how that side of a relationship works (learn to live among 101).

[–]cBIGONE 1 points1 points [recovered]

I would have said "that's lazy, I'm not a fan of laziness". I'm pretty damn blunt though. Either that, or said okay, then banged her in mission pos. Lol

[–]NaturalAlpha69 -3 points-2 points  (7 children)

So you would have raped her?

[–]cBIGONE 1 points1 points [recovered]

That's not what I said at all. You communicate first. If she doesn't want it, I would have left. Typically when women say stuff like this, you can still can them hot and bothered again

[–]maadkekz 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Typically when women say stuff like this, you can still can them hot and bothered again.

...until the next morning when they call the cops on your for raping them?

99.9% of women will wake up and re-do the previous night in their head. They will start hamstering. They will rationalise that because they didn't feel that morning like they had wanted it, it must have been rape.

They will experience cognitive dissonance - "I'm a good girl and wouldn't do that! I must have been raped!". Women can't accept that who they, and society, think they are (a princess) completely contradicts what they really are (licentious, bound to Hypergamy on a deep biological level).

I sincerely hope you've been around here long enough to know this is never a good idea and will get you locked up. The minute she shows indifference, you're on the threshold of rape in the eyes of the law. Zip up and move on. You're playing with fire if this is you..

[–]cBIGONE -1 points-1 points [recovered]

I'm not sure what to think if this. I do know in the past I never slept with drunk women, which I'm sure is most of the problem with this happening.

[–]maadkekz 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You don't have to be drunk to be raped. You won't know you've stuck your dick in crazy until you're in a cell. What does crazy look like? Well, how many attention whores or women with family issues do you know? College girls? How many women with anger problems? Single mothers? Your ass wouldn't even hit the back seat of the police car on the way in they'll drop you in it so fast.

[–]obama_lurves_nsa 0 points1 point  (1 child)

TIL switching positions mid sex to missionary position is rape

[–][deleted] -14 points-14 points

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[–]RageLife 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If you all want to find a wife

Pretty sure the standard advice around here is don't get married.

[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

You didn't read the rules before posting, and now you're banned. So obviously you're not THAT smart.

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The irony of this situation made me laugh. I know you're just doing your job, but still...

[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Women do not give advice for the purpose of giving advice. They do it to bask in the momentary spotlight. It is attention-seeking - nothing more.

Just one more reason why we banish all vaginas with a noticeable odor.

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We're not implying women can't speak or hold a conversation. The point is women generally, inherently communicate moreso on a covert level.

A guy hits on a girl. Girl doesn't like guy.

Instead of responding through words i.e. blatantly saying forthright "I'm not interested", most women adjust their body language to convey their disinterest or -at the very least- make an excuse to end the interaction without having to be overt.

These are covert communicatory methods.

She's physically conveying the message or physically separating herself from the situation. Communication through action.

What's more, women invoke feeling into speech while most men do not.

"I don't feel the same about you."

A man will look for the logical cause of her disinterest. Something he did or said that caused her to say that. Women will feel content that the message has been conveyed, even though the feeling she felt were subjective to her and her alone. To her, there's nothing else to it.

More to the point, what're you doing on TRP in the first place? You're a loong way from home, little one.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Almost changed my nickname to needNoWife before replying. Anyway, this is probably the worst place you could choose to say things like that. Nobody here said women are not intelligent beings, we're discussing communication.

[–]LetsGoAllTheWhey 3 points4 points  (0 children)

From my experience, mostly in the business world, women analyze the shit out of a conversation. Why did he use this word instead of that? What does it mean? I had no idea there were so many ways to study language and it's nuanced meaning until I started working with these two particular women, many years ago. I learned so much from them in that sense.

[–]pedler -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I don't think the point is to talk to them differently than men. Your response is difference because the input is different. If a man started talking to me as unintelligibly as a woman does, I will respond in the same unimpressed, and disinterested way. The only difference is the I might like the sight of a girl drowning in her own self-talk a little more, so if I feel like it I'll add a few more logs to her fire from time to time to keep the irrationality burning.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So what you are saying is a no doesnt have to be a no? Jackpot.