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Interesting post on Male vs Female Suicide Rates (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by RedPharaohRising

Edit: Adding archive link https://archive.is/dBoaL

The ELI5 sub has a post on why the rate of male suicides is much higher than that of females. Some interesting points in the discussion below:

There are fewer support resources for men than there are for women. This, coupled with: the fact that men often work more stressful and/or dangerous jobs than women the fact that custody hearings favor women the fact that men are rarely awarded alimony the fact that prostate cancer gets far less attention than breast cancer the fact that some countries do not consider sexual assault against a man to be rape the general societal sentiment that men should "suck it up" and "man up" about any of their issues And now they're being told that they have "male privilege" and their problems are literally less important than a woman's... Well, I certainly don't wonder why suicide is the second leading cause of death for white men ages 10 to 35[1] , second only to accidental death. And suicide ranks in the top ten causes of death for men of all ethnicities in the US, across all age groups[2] . Conversely, suicide doesn't even make the list for women[3] . It seems pretty clear that there is an unaddressed crisis in men's health when it comes to mental health care, in addition to other societal factors which put men at a severe disadvantage in terms of support and fair treatment.

This guy has citations as well, and he makes some very solid points.

Men's issues and masculinity are definitely important. What everyone should understand is that men's issues and women's issues are tied together. Both men's and women's issues are tied to the masculinity and the gender roles that persist in Society. Why do custody hearings favor women? Because women are expected to be the nurturing person in the family who doesn't have a career. And men pay the alimony and child support because they are seen as the bread winners. When the issue of equal pay gets resolved, men will no longer be seen as the bread winner in Society. Problem solved for both sexes. And this issue isn't just resolved through laws for equal pay. It's also resolved through encouraging young girls into maths and Sciences and not playing up the importance of having children. And letting young boys see it's ok to be a stay at home dad, or even just simply not being the sole provider for a family. We set boys up to be stressed their entire lives if women make more money than them.

Unfortunately, this isn't going to work. This isn't merely a social problem, it is hardwired into our biology. Women who become the alpha of their household don't become happy, they just need an even STRONGER male to handle them.

If you're a stay-at-home dad who's not the primary provider, you better be some top tier alpha in terms of inner game, and someone who can lead a household in every other aspect.

Look at this comment, from a high schooler:

get what you're saying, but I have to respectfully disagree. I'll explain why: I'm still pretty young, I'm 17 and going through American high school. Ever since I was little, I would notice teachers taking a liking to the female students and make comments talking about men and women. Even recently (within the past two weeks) one of my male teachers talked about how women are smarter. I've attempted to talk to my student councilor about issues I've had with some other guys in my grade and she responded with a statement that was pretty much "boys will be boys". Yet I've seen the same councilor help a girl deal with "mean comments" on an Instagram post. I used to attend these weekly Jewish events/classes at my temple. In 9th grade these two college students took over as our grade's teachers. The whole class became a liberal arts campus. We were told how women are oppressed by men in 1st world countries and things of the like. I respectfully disagreed saying that's a massive generalization and such. Disagreeing with the class made me an outcast, even more so than before (I'm not American). I was constantly harassed on social media and in school, labeled names and such. I'm a pretty liberal guy, but this whole experience made me almost take a 180 just because these are the people that I "agree" with. My friend is constantly physically and mentally abused by his mother, she divorced his father and won the rights to them. He has gone to several levels of higher authority seeking help and guidance. Many of them were little to no help, some made claims that the father would be worse (he's not, he's a great guy). I'm not gonna bullshit you and say my fried killed himself or something but he's really not doing well, his grades are falling and he is starting to kinda lose it.
I'm not in this whole debacle but as someone who's looking in as an outsider and someone directly affected by it: Helping women will not help men.

This is probably the best comment in the thread ->

I think the top answer here is almost completely wrong. I think the answer is that there is NO support for men out there. ZERO. ZIP. nobody cares about a man's emotional issues. People tell me to man the fuck up when I feel hurt. There is no correct response to pain when you are a man in America. If you cry, you are weak, if you do not, you are a brute. There are less than 10 men's shelters in North America. Less than 10 places for men to go if they have nowhere else. Women don't face these problems. They simply don't. Society gives plenty and more resources to help homeless women and thier families stay off the streets, even though the vast majority of homeless people are male. There are even homeless and battered women's shelters in my area that take women and girls in, but not boys over the age of 12. Because they are a potential threat to the other little girls and women.

This is the beginning of a fantastic comment by user aeqvitas33.

This is the truth, the hard reality echoed by so many of our endorsed contributors and vanguard members.
Men are starkly alone. With the onslaught of feminism, the decline will quickly turn into a free-for-all and if you are not STRONG, you will be food for the wolves. Or the whales, as the case may be.

This is an absolutely ridiculous state of affairs, and until society wakes up, we will not have a good place to admit when we are indeed down. Until that day arrives, keep getting tougher. Hopefully, the system changes before you break.


[–]ImXtraSalty 386 points387 points  (26 children)

All the comments say, "Open up about your issues and problems, We'll listen!!!" A few minutes later the post is locked and all the comments deleted.

[–]RedPharaohRising[S] 95 points96 points  (0 children)

I forgot to mention that. Good catch.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 46 points47 points  (1 child)

The fact that the post was shut down is a good example of this comment:

I think the answer is that there is NO support for men out there. ZERO. ZIP. nobody cares about a man's emotional issues.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Wasn't regarding suicide or anything but just wanting an ear to talk some things through. And yup, I can confirm nobody wants any part of that shit.

[–][deleted] 65 points66 points  (8 children)

Had to come here to get the scoop. As always. Reddit is such a joke these days. It's never been this bad.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Banned for insulting the reddit hivemind.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (6 children)

I don't remember who it was, but on a podcast I listened to recently they talked about the massive change in pc culture, and they called it a pendulum. Their explanation was something along the lines of the extremely liberal/pc culture out there now is kind of a counter to "back in the day" like when 30 years ago there was no "pc" you could freely use the word nigger and unless there were black people around it wouldn't really matter. I talked to my grandpa somewhat recently about his neighbor (his neighbor came out as gay and left his wife/child) and he was telling me about how when he was my age (20) it was normal, and even kind of encouraged to beat up the gay kid. But back to my original point, the guy in the podcast was talking about how the pendulum has swung all the way in the other direction, and eventually it will settle somewhere in the middle.

[–]trprich 7 points8 points  (1 child)

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It settles wherever you want it to within your bubble as long as you always hold frame. Acquiescence will only be met with further intensity.

[–]anecdotal 1 point2 points  (2 children)

If the pendulum ever stops, it's probably because a nuclear holocaust or super virus wiped out 99% of everyone.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It won't ever stop, but it also won't go to the extremes of either side ever again. Back in the days of slavery it was all the way to the right, now it's all the way to the left. It will go back to the right, but not as far, then bounce back, but not as far. I believe with every bounce it will bring us closer to the middle, and eventually it will be more consistent.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If humans were all rational and logical, weren't people to brain failures like wanting so desperately to fit in that they fuck themselves over just to be accepted, and believing in mythical bullshit because it comes from a supposed authority figure, then it might find a ballance.

As it is, people hardly ever go half way with ideology, and that's exactly what feminism is. So called moderates view the zealots as the most pious and they want to fit in so much they don't call bullshit on the crap the radicals do. That results in the radicals leading the charge to absolute crazy. The Salem Witch Trials are a perfect example. Yes we modified or laws to hopefully prevent such idiocy in the future, but there are still racial nut jobs who want exactly that type of government.

The pendulum will swing crazily for some things, barely at all for others. The herd mentality and desperately needing acceptance will never allow us to find equilibrium. Individuals can jump off the ride if they realize what's happening, but most don't recognize the fact they're blindly following along.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian 21 points22 points  (10 children)

I think the fundemantal problem is that these people think that opening up and emotional support is the solution.

I don't agree. The solution is a positive masculine influence. Masculine role models and a place to express their masculinity in a positive way and improve/excel.

Where it goes wrong is in societies vilification of masculinity and encouraging boys to act like girls.

"Just man up!" Is the correct solution but we have to show these boys how to man up. Now society tells them to become girls but then doesn't provide the emotional support a girl needs. We need to turn boys into men through positive role models and masculine activities. This will get them into groups/tribes/fraternaties where they can share emotions in a masculine way where they are understood.

[–]mhornberger 16 points17 points  (4 children)

"Just man up!" Is the correct solution but we have to show these boys how to man up. Now society tells them to become girls but then doesn't provide

I'm not sure. The higher male suicide rate seems to predate the efforts to make boys more like girls. I think men killed themselves a lot even back in the John Wayne days. Men were even more disposable when TradCon was the unquestioned norm.

I'm very torn about this. I don't like everyone going all Oprah and talking about their feelings. I don't really want men talking about their feelings more, rather I want women talking about theirs less. I really don't think our feelings matter when it comes to the world. Within relationships, yes, they matter, but that's about it. But I'm probably just too thick-skinned.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Taking about it might help, but doing something to change the situation that is causing the stress will achieve far more.

The main reasons men off themselves are, financial, failed relationships, trauma, desperation, and seeing life and fighting against the current as futile.

I've had a very shit life, I've struggled, fought, and raged against the events that drive me to the brink of ending it multiple times. The main reason I'm here is I believed it could get better, and I fought hard to make it better, over and over and over again. Every time I've rebuilt and gotten to where I could breathe a little, someone else would destroy everything I did.

Most men are not like me, some will give up and quit rather than get started from zero and do it all over again. I'm not special, I have big fucking dreams I want to accomplish before I die, and I'll do anything to see them come to fruition. That's what motivates me to get up, keep moving, push harder, ignore the pain, and achieve.

Most men don't have that, they can't see the possibility of ever attaining it, so they end it instead. Too much work, too hard to do it again, and nobody really cares about us so why bother.

[–]Turn_Coat_2 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, standard protocol: Listen and Believe

[–]1jb_trp 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"Open up about your issues and problems, We'll listen!!!"

But as soon as you do... They call you weak, or a misogynist, or tell you to shut up and that the world would be fixed is we just helped women reach "equality" (whatever that means).

I've learned to control my emotions and hide my tears, but back when I was younger I was much more sensitive. I would cry openly. And I never had one of my guy friends look down on me for opening up or being emotional. They provided strength, courage, and support when I needed it. It was always women who looked down upon my tears. Especially women I was attracted to.

[–]CaptainGloom 126 points127 points  (22 children)

I kind of doubt that anything will change. Gynocentrism is the mandate. So I offer an alternative solution. Take good care of your male friends, make sure you know what's up with them. Society has mandated that men will have nothing, but we still have our strength of numbers in our little groups. I'm sure none of you need reminding of the cruelties men face simply for having something between their legs and nothing on their chests. Unfortunately, we are the shelters, we are the psychiatrists. We must stand up because society never will.

So look after your buddies.

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–]CaptainGloom 22 points23 points  (6 children)

    What I worry about is the men and boys who get outcast, even (and especially) by other males due partly to their own behavior, partly to their labels of 'creepy' as imposed by zee weemen. I'd wager many such boys and men make up a large portion of the huge male suicide rate. Because though my ethos might help, what about them? They have no one. And that's the ultimate tragedy, isn't it? Men in general have no one who will help them, and then there are some men who have no one, not even other men.

    [–]Whirly315 13 points14 points  (4 children)

    You are correct... But there are many people in the world you will never be able to help. Trust me, I work in medicine and an important lesson I have had to learn is "do what you can, with what you have, where you are right then".
    I believe it is important to recognize the difference here between honor and duty. It's perfectly fine to pay yourself with honor when you help those you care about because that's consistent with who you are as a person. In contrast, it is unhealthy to allow a false sense of duty towards people you have no ability to help to poison your thoughts with unwarranted guilt.

    [–]Enjoyitbeforeitsover 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    I tried helping a redditor who would just not listen. I spent a whole month on this guy and had to just slowly depart. Its as if all my positive guidance was not received. Trust me when I say I did what I felt was the right approach. There's that old cliche weird saying, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, and that shit was real. No matter what I did, the whole victim mentality never changed, even after him always saying he would kill himself constantly. After one month I said fuck this I'm done, I have a ton of positive energy to give but if I am not getting a response, there's nothing I can do. I left that person some incredible fucking red pill wisdom and a lot of resources to get his shit together but sometimes people's brains are just a mind fuck, and even suggesting a psychologist numerous times doesn't matter. I don't even know if this reply makes sense in regard to your comment but ehh.

    [–]Whirly315 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    It does man. I've been in similar places with people sitting in front of me. I know it's hard to believe that people can't see the world the way we do but they each find their own reasons to persist with their delusions. There is a reason men like us gravitate towards finding Truth, no matter how ugly or uncomfortable it may be. I feel like it bothers me most because I don't feel rewarded for my effort, but sunken cost fallacy can be true in many forms. I believe walking away was the right decision. He has the ability and direction to find answers if he ever decides that is what he wants.

    [–]Enjoyitbeforeitsover 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I never intended to get anything out of helping him, but I actually learned quite a bit just out of that whole process. What's sad is that there might be worse cases where they may get angry and take that shit out on "society" and harm others. That's what's fucking sketchy. I'm just going to say this, seeing as this is "the red pill", and some of you might say oh here's this fucking hippie ranting some bullshit, but what about mdma or ayahuasca treatment for these people? Isn't that what M.A.P.S is researching, how to help these people with these subtances, maybe align their mind and their brains chemistry? This is "taboo" in medicine but what do I know, in fact since you're in that environment maybe you can shed some light on this issue. It may not be a cure all but maybe some might benefit from these "illegal" and "lazy hippie" substances. Get them to think beyon and find deeper meaning. The guy I was tyring to help all he wanted was to get laid, money and power. I was like geez, there's some motherfuckers who are dealing with some brutal shit, people in wars, people who are really poor and can't eat, people who are deformed, unhealthy, yet If I "generalize" and say "man up", that makes me a bad person because I don't "understand them" and I'm generalizing depression. I understand that side and it's really complicated all around. I like helping people but sometimes like we said, it might take something beyond us, hence why I mentioned these substances. There's that whole parenting and the environment and social influences that really play a lot to how people grow. Maybe in the future technology can help provide a basic but peaceful way of life for many. idk

    [–]DarkuSchneider 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    A man with nothing to lose is the most potentially dangerous man in the world. Some will just languish in escapism waiting for death, some simply skip the wait and kill themselves, while others in increasing alarming numbers will go out like Elliot Rodgers or ISIS. Some may be too damaged to save but that does not mean they all should be abandoned. At least show them a way to reclaim their dignity and salvage what they can if they will.

    Men are caught in a conflicting state that breaks them down from a constant state of dysfunction. We are told to man up but vilified for expressing masculinity at the same time leaving many unable to fulfill their biological imperatives which adds stress via a hormone called Cortisol. When living in a state contrary to the way nature built us dysfunction eventually becomes a systemic downward spiral. Forget gender issues and look at the world as a whole for example; the more unnatural lifestyles civilization leads the higher the cancer/mortality rate goes. We did not need a juggernaut healthcare system to keep people from dying in the tens of millions in the past and yet with all this technology they still die en mass more and more. I have always been a proponent of finding balance because when I succeed at it I feel happier and motivated to do more good things.

    [–]LazyMagus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I have yet to find buddies in real life who think they have a problem with women. They have fixed blue pill ideas about women and life, and will murder me if I piss them off too much. Not literally of course.

    [–]Whirly315 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Fuck yes dude. That's the message I want to spread

    [–][deleted]  (50 children)

    [deleted]

    [–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (12 children)

    From the patient's perspective, they often don't realize that they're not completely intent on killing themselves. That's why females often choose softer methods of suicide; ones that provide more outs. Men are more likely to choose definitive and more violent methods of suicide generally because we're more likely to come down on a decision. Its speaks to intrinsically masculine and feminine traits.

    Source: Degree in psych.

    [–]tio1w 45 points46 points  (9 children)

    Also let's just be blunt and call it what it is.

    Attention whoring.

    [–]natman2939 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Or a plea for help

    Either way

    [–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (7 children)

    I just can't reduce suicide to attention grabbing. It's a complex behavior nor matter how you slice it.

    [–]tio1w 19 points20 points  (4 children)

    I just can't reduce suicide to attention grabbing.

    Suicide attempts that clearly lack planning and intent.

    You have to be really incompetent or unlucky to fail a suicide. (exceptions for people in prison, incapacitated, etc)

    [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    Male mentality: Do it, but do it well. vs Female mentality: Do it now because you want it now.

    If both a male and female are going to kill themselves, the male will make it quick and painless, because they don't want a way out. Female is more likely to be impulsive about the decision and swallow some pills (she may also decide she wants to live once the pills are in her body and call a friend).

    Understand that the conscious intent on both parts is to off themselves (if it wasn't, they wouldn't attempt suicide). Men are more likely to know what they want, whereas women are flaky and emotional. We see women do this all the time, where they make a 'decision,' then hamster out of it. The ideas of I want to live and I need attention/help are unconscious intents in this case.

    [–]reddymcwoody 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    Perhaps people whom are planning to commit suicide aren't in the best frame of mind for planning.

    [–]tio1w 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    The data strongly suggest that men are.

    [–]Elodrian 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Down the block, not across the street.

    [–]qiang_shi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    doesn't the degree of shit pilling up contribute? piles and piles and piles... then snap! the only way out is a bullet.

    [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 97 points98 points  (26 children)

    This is true. Women take a few sleeping tablets and call a friend. They want to be rescued. Men blow their brains out.

    Female suicide attempt rate is about 4x higher than men's.

    Men's actual suicide rate is about 4x higher than women's.

    If you want to troll women, tell them they are incompetent at killing themselves, and men finish the fucking job.

    Those stats are fairly universal in the West. Point this out next time some woman is telling you that the female suicide attempt rate is so much higher than men's.

    [–]25russianbear25 29 points30 points  (4 children)

    incompetent at killing themselves

    They're not incompetent, they just dont want to die but get attention. They can kill themselves if they really wanted to. I dont see how people cant understand that

    [–]HoScience 33 points34 points  (1 child)

    That's why he said "if you want to troll women".

    [–]B_uckets 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    That's easy to explain: The grim reaper is a misogynist.

    [–][deleted]  (15 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Rougepellet 44 points45 points  (5 children)

      DO NOT be discussing this shit at your feminism class. PLEASE. HOLY FUCKING SHIT PLEASE! If you're a dude you will definitely be shunned and called misogynist. Lay low. Don't try to use logic against feminists. If logic worked against them they wouldn't be feminists in the first place.

      Edit: I'm assuming you're taking the class because you had limited options. Just keep your mouth shut, regurgitate what the professor wants to hear (women are superior men are misogynistic pigs, down with masculinity). Get your A and fuck off from the class, DO NOT ENGAGE IN A DEBATE WITH THE ENTIRE CLASS.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Endorsed ContributoriBrokeRSA 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        This.

        Also, register for electives early next time so you can take something interesting like Russian Literature instead of having to bite your tongue 3 times a week in a "feminism class"

        [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 5 points6 points  (1 child)

        The 4:1 completed suicide ratio is easy to pin down:

        https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide (don't quote wp as a primary reference, follow the links instead)

        Suicide attempts is harder to track down - the US compiles self harm (eg cutting) with self harm (eg suicide attention ploy). There is some question over the female attempt rate vs men, because of the different methods used and increased likelihood of it being reported for women.

        From reading about this stuff, it's glaring that men are blamed for "not seeking help with depression as they view it as a weakness" and at no point is society blamed for putting too much pressure on men to do god damned fucking everything, nor is there any attention given to the vastly better female support networks out there, nor the impact of the difficulties men face as a result of the prejudice against them at every step of life.

        [–]1v1mebruh 4 points5 points  (6 children)

        Law 38: think as you like but behave like others.

        Who the fuck in your class are you trying/going to win over by making these remarks? Real friends know how each other feel already and keep quiet in front of others, and if these are the people you are hoping to attract, being a philosophical hotboy might not get the job done. what battle are you trying to win, man? the world fucking blows in a lot of ways, accept it and make the most out of your life. It's really not that hard of a mental step to take at the end of the day. I could not care less how the general populace feels; they're mentally week and will live their whole lives being unhappy. You shouldn't care either. Worry about yourself and those friends of yours that have proven themselves to be driven, intelligent, and loyal.

        [–]TruePill85 2 points3 points  (4 children)

        You really need to set this bullshit book down, this so called law is beta to the bone! nothing but herd mentality dressed up to appease pseudo intellectuals with a false sense of clandestine superiority

        Cringe worthy book it is.

        Action in the face of adversity and popular opinion is the language of Men that creates real change.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I agree. Its a useless battle, people need to focus on winning their own fights and improving themselves making themselves happy. No one gives a shit if a guy kills himself except maybe his immediate family.

        Exposing your problems to anyone other than a trained psychologist or a very close family member or very close friend is exposing a weakness to be taken advantage of. Humans are nasty hierarchical monkeys.

        Fighting useless battles over exposes you to "attack"

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Sickeningly true, my buddie's girlfriend did this multiple times and every night she would message him and he'd spend hours stroking her ego, pretty disgusting how far people can go for attention

        [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

        The doc is gonna cover his ass and say suicide attempt, but he is thinking cry for attention.

        The docs, both male and female, recognize that most female "attempted suicides" are really cries for attention. I've been spending some nights in the ER recently (as a med student), and I've seen a number of attempts, mostly women. When we get back to the center station where the docs hang out and fill out the paper work they'll usually give me their opinion. After a particularly weak attempt (girl said she took 10 tylenol or something), the doc literally said, "It's a shame she's taking a bed from someone who's actually sick." She was referred to outpatient psyche and sent home with her parents. Docs say similar things about most attempted suicides. Most are women, most aren't actual medical problems.

        [–]RedPharaohRising[S] 23 points24 points  (4 children)

        I know. There was an interesting stat below in the comments: more women attempt suicide, but more men succeed (speaking using percentages) for the second case. Men actually mean it and want it, most women just want attention.

        [–]tio1w 7 points8 points  (1 child)

        The difference is quite big.

        It's like 4 times the attempts, 1/4 the deaths.

        With one exception, China.

        [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

        you see on those ask reddit threads, some girl will say "and i took, like, 20 pills!" (probably like fucking 6 of them)

        [–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

        She could've just taken 2 Alleve

        [–]Eenjoy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        This was my mom a few times before my step-dad didn't come home bc he had to work late. Bye bye. I have been much better off with my real dad anyways who she cheated on and took me and my brother from.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Tylenol is extremely dangerous in OD. If you take a whole bottle of it, you will probably die of liver failure.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Honestly, this. I've personally experienced this from a female in my family. Killing themselves is never on a woman's agenda. There is too much for them to live for in this female-centric world. It's a cry for attention. Suicide attempts by women are just another tool in their "focus on me" handbag.

        [–]Stagsdale 80 points81 points  (17 children)

        I am a highschooler and I am 16. I was told by my Art teacher (which is a feminist) that I am privileged and will have everything handed to me on a silver platter. Funny because my family is relatively poor.

        [–]RedPharaohRising[S] 90 points91 points  (1 child)

        Art teacher - feminist. Why am i not surprised

        [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 68 points69 points  (2 children)

        Women do actually believe that this is true. Most are oblivious to men having any problems at all, and believe that men's lives are simple and perfect and easy.

        Why? Because Chad presents himself like this, and she ignores everything that Billy Beta says. And years of feminism and women's mags making everything out to be the fault of priveleged patriarchs living the highlife.

        The dumb fucks believe every word of it, that's how much they love being the victim.

        I've had this conversation with otherwise intelligent and relatively caring women, who before me were unaware that men had any problems whatsoever. (Importantly - if you say this to women you wanna fuck, you have to laugh about it and distance yourself from the poor men with problems)

        Attractive men follow the 48 laws of power - make your achievements seem easy. I work fucking hard, and then laugh and chuckle with my feet up when anyone is watching. Generally I laugh off my achievements and claim anyone could do it, it's not that hard. I make everything I can look as easy as possible, even if it took me months of private practice to learn it. I shrug off most compliments and swan around like I am blessed and that it's all a breeze.

        In reality I've got significant hidden disabilities and problems with myself and how I relate to the world (even beyond the prejudice that owning a penis confers). It's been a long and painful road to get where I am. And do I share this with anyone? Oh hell no unless it will help them and it's with a small group of men who will not negatively impact my life by showing any weakness. And absolutely never with women. Never, ever with women. For women only respect power.

        [–]SW9876 10 points11 points  (1 child)

        It's unfortunate how a woman that you are close friends with, and whom you have no interest in banging, is completely incapable of having a conversation at that level.

        [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (2 children)

        It's the exact opposite. She's projecting her position in society onto you. She's a woman and a sjw feminist so she's the one priviliged.

        She doesent know it but she told you about her position in society. What is the context behind your talk with her it seems pointless to me.

        [–]Way_Of_Man 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Lower-mid class white male checking in. Still waiting to find out where I can use my privilege card to cash in.

        [–]ubercoolhipsterguy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        You gotta know a brother. Call me sometime and I'll hook you up.

        [–]Abadoobie 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        It's because they are fucking blind. Men and women face very different challenges in life. Women only see the ways men seem to handle, or not have to endure, the shit THEY find challenging. If it's easy for him and hard for her, that means he's some how privileged.

        But they ignore the challenges men face because they don't consider those things challenges. Most of men's challenges are either not challenges for women, they didn't experience them so they can't conceive of the issue as a challenge, or they are easily dealt with by women, conveniently ignoring any privileges they enjoy in dealing with that challenge.

        The result is that only challenges women face are worth discussion. If women don't experience it, it doesn't matter. If women experience it but it's easily handled for women, it doesn't matter. If both men and women face it, women are granted privileges, special treatment and extra assistance in dealing with it. Men are not. If it's a challenge that is significant and ONLY faced by women? Well, those are some of the biggest "social" issues of today, the most important and most deserving of attention. One-way gender equality, pay-equality, high-value employment opportunity(female affirmative action), bodily autonomy, abortion rights, workplace harassment, sexual assault, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, domestic violence, all the topics at the top of the liberal list of social concerns.

        Male suicide? Not important. Prostate cancer? Not important. Widespread, culturally accepted male genital mutilation? Not important. Workplace injuries? Not Important. Workplace deaths? Not important. Significant male underachievement in academics? Not important. Mass male unemployment and underemployment? Not important. Male incarceration rates? Not important. Violence and sexual assault of the incarcerated? Not important. Incarceration work-slavery programs? Not Important.

        Never mind the smaller issues equivalent to slut shaming, man spreading, sexist jokes, or being called fat. All of which get more attention, more resources and more importance than even most of the major issues that face men.

        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Even issues that you would assume effect both sexes are only considered for women. My last job I worked with mainly women. One girl made a joke about touching my ass when she put something in my pocket. There were at least 4 other coworkers, probably all women, I can't remember. None of them cared in the slightest. If anything they were probably jealous. Two other women I worked with outright grabbed my ass on multiple ocassions in front of other female coworkers and they all thought it was funny and exciting. I'm not complaining, I actually enjoyed it. The thing is, reverse the genders in these scenarios and see what happens. The hypocrisy is so obvious. I even pointed it out to them at one point and they just laughed and shrugged and admitted I was right.

        [–]ThunderHeavyIndustry 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        So often privilege arguments completely ignore the overall issue of class.

        [–][deleted] 71 points72 points  (42 children)

        Men's issues and masculinity are definitely important. What everyone should understand is that men's issues and women's issues are tied together. Both men's and women's issues are tied to the masculinity and the gender roles that persist in Society. Why do custody hearings favor women? Because women are expected to be the nurturing person in the family who doesn't have a career. And men pay the alimony and child support because they are seen as the bread winners. When the issue of equal pay gets resolved, men will no longer be seen as the bread winner in Society. Problem solved for both sexes. And this issue isn't just resolved through laws for equal pay. It's also resolved through encouraging young girls into maths and Sciences and not playing up the importance of having children. And letting young boys see it's ok to be a stay at home dad, or even just simply not being the sole provider for a family. We set boys up to be stressed their entire lives if women make more money than them.

        This comment's a heaping pile of bullshit. The solution to men's issues isn't more feminism and more women's rights. Women need fewer rights, meaning less affirmative action, less preferential treatment, less narrative control, fewer safety nets, etc., and that should be mixed with more accountability. Low earning women ought to be shamed, victim women ought to be shamed, hypergamy and whorishness cannot be celebrated, etc. Doing that will even shit out and fix issues.

        However, that's not something worth thinking about. Female sexual strategy is feminism and privileges. They're successful at it because most men are pathetic manginas who'd rather sell themselves to death for sex they'll never get than stand up for themselves. Unfortunately, they're considered the same gender as real men and so the media will continue to use them to represent us. As long as Menslib is the primary voice of men, our issues will never be solved. That's why men need to lift, learn game, and learn how women work. Power and respect will never be given to them. Men must earn it and act optimally because the 'ethical' or 'righteous' thing will never get done. Even bothering to think about it is a waste of time that could have been spent at the gym.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [removed]

          [–]Hoodwink 11 points12 points  (3 children)

          It's amazing the pay disparity only comes around to 97% when you consider the majority of women take up jobs that are next to useless or should already be gone (a good portion of service workers should be shrinking with technology, not increasing - I think this is mostly cause of Baby boomers being inept and scared of technology).

          That and they have had preferential hiring for few decades. Honestly, we seem to do more or at least as much for women as we did for blacks. And as much for hispanics (who were never enslaved). The entire concept of preferential hiring for women is just weird as fuck when you actually understand how women are treated in current society. It's absolutely crazy to think about.

          [–]Abadoobie 6 points7 points  (2 children)

          Service sector jobs are increasing because the value of labor has, and continues to, drop steadily. We have an excess of labor in America but a high demand for employment. The result is that the excess labor gets put to use in jobs that are low quality and low pay and only exist because we have so much labor.

          Most of these jobs wouldn't exist if there was a labor shortage as they wouldn't be financially viable at higher wage levels. It's because they can pay eager workers so little that service worker jobs continue to grow and will continue to do so.

          Affirmative action and preferential hiring policies are inadequate to achieve the goals they were implemented for. The goals themselves are simplistic and incapable of solving the issues they are intended to resolve.

          You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. In this case, the horse won't even follow you to the damn water. Yet it still demands it gets water! So what have we done? We decided to have men move whole damn lake!

          [–]Hoodwink 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          The result is that the excess labor gets put to use in jobs that are low quality and low pay and only exist because we have so much labor.

          This is true. But it also doesn't represent the fact that even these service sector jobs can be further replaced by technology. It's not hard to devise a system to replace the guy taking your order with a touchscreen (that can be replaced easily when broken/worn) or a smartphone app. There's already companies trying to replace fast food workers with robots.

          There's going to be a complete lack of entry-level jobs in the future. It'll probably spark some political unrest if it happens too quickly without any real replacement.

          [–]RedPharaohRising[S] 26 points27 points  (1 child)

          The comment by the high schooler was strong in response to this. And well written, too.

          [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

          Agreed. The comment he replied to is just an unheard level of idiocy and he handled it gracefully and logically.

          [–]cariboo_j 21 points22 points  (2 children)

          Why do custody hearings favor women? Because women are expected to be the nurturing person in the family who doesn't have a career

          "OMG my husband is out all day working to earn money which I spend. And I get to spend the majority of the time with our children."

          Much oppression, much suffering.

          Why did you have children in the first place if you didn't want to spend time raising them? I'm sure lots of working fathers would love to spend more time with their kids. Sheesh.

          [–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (1 child)

          I'm sure lots of working fathers would love to spend more time with their kids

          Right? When the fuck did it become oppression to spend time with your kids? That must be hell for kids to hear from their mother.

          [–]CaptainGloom 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          Men's lib isn't the prime voice. Look how many subs the MRA reddit has compared to MensLib, and then there's us and MGTOW. MensLib died literally decades ago, it's a weak feminist puppet that not even most feminists know about

          [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 9 points10 points  (1 child)

          When the issue of equal pay gets resolved 
          

          The issue of equal pay has been resolved. It's only the feminists who won't let it lie, even though they now make more money than men per hour worked, and find it easier to get jobs because of positive discrimination.

          How do they spin this? They now quote total lifetime earnings, and conveniently miss out all the income they get from men while raising children. So of course their earned incomes are lower - they spent 5 years being supported.

          As well as not adding the male contribution to their lifestyle as income, they don't subtract from male earnings what is paid to women (either indirectly as income to the family, or directly as child support and alimony).

          And even so, to completely prove your point about it being a heaping pile of bullshit, men are still expected to provide for women in divorce court.

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          Men just need to stop worshipping pussy. It does nothing for men to do so. Doesn't matter what your goal is with women. Getting laid or respect. All pussy worshipping does is pussify men. When men get married they do whatever their wife tells him to just so he can hopefully get his dick wet. Same with LTR. If men would stop worshipping pussy and were willing to walk away then women would have no power. Problem is men care way too much about what women think about them.

          [–]stawek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          All the men problems will vanish if only they stop being men.

          [–][deleted]  (21 children)

          [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (11 children)

            Equal opportunity for women is fewer rights.

            [–]RedPharaohRising[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            Good point. The definition of equality should be equal opportunity, equal reward. Nothing more, nothing less.

            [–][deleted]  (8 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (7 children)

              I don't see a difference but if you do then i'll go with it.

              [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              Rights are codified; trial by jury, voting, etc. Privilege is more subjective; women shut up when a man speaks, but women can drown in free drinks if they wanted. Women and children first, vs men and women prefer men as leaders. Women negotiate for time off and men negotiate for more pay.... if the gender is swapped then the same request is penalized

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]MuleJuiceMcQuaid 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                Feminists want equality of outcome, not of opportunity. They think pure meritocracy is sexist.

                [–]2popthatpill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Feminists want equality of outcome

                No they don't. They just want free money.

                [–]through_a_ways 7 points8 points  (5 children)

                I think women should get equal OPPORTUNITY

                I'll probably get downvoted for this, but I don't see why sentiments like these are lauded.

                There's nothing inherently good about forcing private entities to engage in "equal opportunity" hiring. There's also nothing inherently desirable in a media company being politically neutral.

                If I own a company, I maintain the right to hire whomever I want, regardless of their objective qualifications. If I only want to hire Native American quadriplegic men with asperger's, that's my right.

                And if a media outlet wants to paint certain political candidates in a bad light, that's their right.

                I mention the media example because I see conservatives bitching about this issue just as much as liberals.

                [–][deleted]  (4 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]ProfessorScribbles 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                  Would decreasing the value of female employees actually lower the birth rate, though? If women can't get jobs, they have three main options: marry off and start having kids, leech off mommy and daddy until her 30s chasing Chad, or (attempt to) kill herself. Hardly any different from now, really, but now there's more free time for craving cock and looking after Junior.

                  I don't support the notion of forcing women not to work, but I also think a business has a right to hire whoever they please, and if female employees are that much of a detriment...

                  [–]stawek 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                  If you didn't have to pay her for getting pregnant you wouldn't have this problem.

                  The feminist idea that employer should take responsibility for his female employee's decision to have a baby created the whole problem. If she just said "boss, i'm off for next 3 years, i will re-apply when the babe is bigger" everyone would be happy.

                  [–]joshhdan 19 points20 points  (10 children)

                  I wrote a research paper on this subject in college. It was an Econometric analysis of suicide rates (in men vs women) as a function of divorce rates and other factors.

                  [–]RedPharaohRising[S] 17 points18 points  (7 children)

                  Interesting. What did you come up with, as far as findings go?

                  [–]ShounenEgo 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                  I think he realized that providing any evidence will make his reddit account directly linked to his real identity.

                  [–]joshhdan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                  Haha no. You wouldn't be able to find it I never submitted it to be published. Only a handful of people read that paper.

                  [–]joshhdan 7 points8 points  (4 children)

                  Well in the gender pooled population there is obviously a positive correlation. I ran the regression again with separate male and female suicide rates. The male was still positively correlated and the female was negatively correlated.

                  [–]riverraider69 7 points8 points  (3 children)

                  So men kill themselves more after divorce and women less? We don't mind reading research papers btw.

                  [–]Whirly315 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  I too would be interested in a brief conclusion

                  [–][deleted]  (8 children)

                  [removed]

                  [–]timebeast69 36 points37 points  (23 children)

                  Never argue with feminists, there is nothing you can say that will change their mind. Also there is an army of white knights ready to beat your ass if they think it will gain them any amount of favor with a woman.

                  Never talk about anything in favor of men in public or you will be quickly ostracized.

                  Smile and nod guys, smile and nod.

                  [–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (2 children)

                  I disagree. this topic is a great gateway issue to engage people with provided you don't try to extrapolate what it means for them. that's the confrontational part. the real suicide statistics alone won't challenge their identity because everyone thinks suicide is tragic. (and of course I only talk politics with friends and when it's appropriate.)

                  if you care about teens offing themselves then they can be made to care as much. I guess it helps that i'm not a partisan firebrand to start with, but like, people do in fact care about dead kids.

                  [–]Rougepellet 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  I still would strongly advise NEVER arguing with anyone identifying as a feminist. If they had an ounce of logic or rationality in them, they wouldn't be feminists. Only discuss such topics with normal people (not feminists, white knights or social justice warriors but not necessarily enlightened).

                  [–]EvanDeadlySins 14 points15 points  (6 children)

                  Unless things will magically change on their own as the situation gets worse (that is, men eventually become so disenfranchised that they just revolt to this new cultural paradigm en masse), some men are going to have to make personal sacrifices to spread this message.

                  Edit: Many of us encourage each other to follow Law 38: think as you like but behave like others. On paper, this is a relatively sound solution, for it allows us to avoid the inconveniences of publicly going against the tide of popular opinion. It is inherently a selfish action, especially when there is a large problem that needs solving, and for those who are Dark Triad, it's perfectly fine. As long as I'm doing alright, why does it matter to me how many men are being subjugated because nobody wants to stand up and fight the power?

                  It's like when there's a horrible accident on a street, somebody is hurt. A person yells "Somebody call 911!" But nobody does, because they feel like they won't have to because somebody else will do it. As a collective, as men, someone ought to be the first man to say "I am willing to sacrifice my own welfare for the fellow men who are counting on me." And, whether he succeeds or fails, that man and his comrades will be lauded as heroes.

                  [–]timebeast69 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                  Unfortunately, men don't help other men. If you want to be a man, you're on your own for everything.

                  I'm not willing to be a martyr on this subject and I doubt anyone else here is either.

                  [–]Veqq 13 points14 points  (1 child)

                  What's the point of this sub then?

                  [–]spectrum_92 14 points15 points  (2 children)

                  Terrible advice. I happily debate feminists whenever the opportunity arises. As long as you have tact and aren't autistic you're not going to offend any sensible people, in fact most decent people appreciate candour and well reasoned, honestly held beliefs.

                  [–][deleted]  (8 children)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]timebeast69 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                    Just about every single guy you see in public is a white knight.

                    Try returning a slap to a woman after she slaps you infront of strangers.

                    [–]tallwheel 4 points5 points  (5 children)

                    A single white knight may not be able to kick your ass, but are you ready to take on an army of them?

                    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]tb87670 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                      Been in a few stupid fights myself, you grab the nearest object and use it as a force multiplier.

                      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]tb87670 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                        Since I was a teen my goal was not to win but to never lose. Trying to win puts pressure on you, trying not to lose kicks in the fight or flight instinct which enables no-thrills survival at any cost.

                        [–]MadChestHairYuKnight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        If you smile and nod, nothing changes EVER.

                        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                        [deleted]

                        [–]RedPharaohRising[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

                        Nope, women are the most responsible children/teenagers, and the teen years are feared for a reason. Rebellion for its sake, disagreement in some fool's notion of freedom, etc. All women behave like children.
                        Men I suppose are more susceptible to survivor's guilt as well(see Rollo Tomassi's War Brides article); women are capable of compartmentalising to maintain their mental state. That is possibly WHY honor was so successful with men, because women evolved to be able to deal with the consequences of their pasts while men didn't.

                        [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                        this is an interesting response.

                        Freakonomics had an episode exploring this. There were two things I remember them suggesting. Among middle class, there is a "nothing left to blame it on" mentality. If you have always been poor, you can blame unhappiness on your situation. If you are better off and unhappy, you are more likely to blame yourself and internalize it.

                        it almost makes the connection about a lack of positive identity given to a group. but skews more towards 'people killing themselves' means 'they're doing it because of privilege.' I was almost part of these statistics and no, it wasn't because I had it so good as a white boy that I couldn't justify being glum.

                        [–]pilledwillingly 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                        Not to mention men have legitimate reasons to feel worthless: When a court tells you to sign over everything that you consider a life achievement to someone that you hate, and continue to pay them for years to come, you kinda don't really see the point in investing in yourself further when your worst enemy owns shares in your labor.

                        [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

                        That thread makes me depressed. Seriously. I haven't read anything that echoes the complete lack of support for men in such a long time. Yes, some good comments were upvoted, but the top comment? Women actually attempt it more often, so obviously women are still suffering more.

                        As a medical student I spend a lot of nights in the ER. I see a lot of these attempts. I'm not pretending that what I see is definitely indicative of the population, but I do see a lot more "suicide attempts" from women. The thing is, they're mostly cries for help. You know why? Because those cries are answered. I've seen 7 attempted suicides this year and 6 were girls. The response for the girls was universal: comfort from the nursing staff until hysterical parents, family, and friends surround her and take her home to check her into outpatient psych. The guy who attempted suicide had cuts all over his body and a severe gash across both wrists. It was a serious attempt, and had he not gotten to the hospital he would've died. No one came to pick him up. He was eventually transferred to inpatient psyche. He'll probably be met with some insane medical bill for his extended stay. Fucking unbelievable.

                        The truth is, male suicide attempts aren't coming through the emergency room at the same rate as women because they're going directly to the morgue. There are somewhere about 15 attempted suicides for every successful suicide. With so many nearly guaranteed methods of killing yourself out there, why is it that so many people are failing? Because most aren't an attempt at taking your life, they're an attempt at improving it by drawing attention to your mental pain. Drawing attention to your mental pain as a male only aggravates the problem.

                        I think the existence of TRP is a really interesting look into men's mental health and psyche. Look at this place. We absolutely encourage the "suck it up" philosophy. We've been so affected by constant rejection that we felt the need to come here, but rather than support each other and tell each other that we're not worthless, we focused our efforts on helping each other improve. We focused our efforts on "sucking it up." We observed the world and developed a strategy for succeeding in it. Why? Because no one is coming to our rescue if we fail. Women can cry out for help and a either a man or society will come to their aid. She will not lose her intrinsic value. When a man cries out for help he's told why he doesn't deserve it, and he digs himself deeper into he hole he was already in by further lowering his already low value.

                        [–]like_a_ghost 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                        Damn, that part about no one coming to pick up that guy who attempted it made me feel for him. I can imagine if I were in his shoes I'd go home and try again as soon as I was released.

                        [–]weiry6922 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        I completely agree. I've also seen a large amount of these 'suicide attempts' from women that are obviously just a call for attention with no real desire to kill themself so your post really doesn't surprise me.

                        I can't remember where I heard this quote, but I've always remembered it. It was something like:

                        'People that actually want to kill themseves are already dead. There's no two ways about it, if you truly want to kill yourself you wont fail.'

                        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                        THIS is a big reason why we should lift on a regular schedule. When nobody gives a fuck about your problems, taking out your frustrations on some iron is great therapy.

                        [–]axxxman 7 points8 points  (4 children)

                        This why it's so important to build strong friendships and never let your lover also be your "best friend". It's crucial to have an loyal and trustworthy friend when going gets rough and friends are for life

                        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                        [deleted]

                          [–]MadChestHairYuKnight 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                          You've had some really bad friends then. I have some real good friends, and I'd kill for them and they'd for me.

                          [–]InAStateTRP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                          There is a chance those friends are petty fake friends.

                          There is also a chance that your personality attracts shitty friends.

                          [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

                          The devaluation of males is common among many other species. Due to relative scarcity, eggs are more valuable than sperm. That's largely where the lack of care about men comes from.
                          It's a bit disturbing how many people are ignorant of the fact that we're animals when we display exactly the same behaviors (not to mention bodies) as other primates.

                          [–]Abadoobie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          It isn't eggs so much as the means of production of offspring requires immense investment of resources for women and little for men. Further to that, male disposability is fundamentally linked to the male role in protecting those baby makers from harm as they become more vulnerable during pregnancy. Women are more valuable over their lives than men simply from their role in reproduction. In order for a culture in which men face the risks and dangers of protection to exist, the society MUST be able to endure their loss. Part of accomplishing that is caring less for men than for women.

                          [–]drallcom3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          It's very beneficial for a species survival if only the best males can reproduce.

                          In our civilized society it leads to all kinds of crazy behavior, since nature can't take it's natural path.

                          [–]jefecaminador1 7 points8 points  (4 children)

                          Women bend, men break. That's just nature.

                          [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

                          eh they both break, women just get 400 people jumping in to help every single time they make a peep for help

                          [–]Abadoobie 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                          And that's it. Women break more often than men do, but they have all kinds of socially created coping mechanisms to help them mend.

                          [–]B_uckets 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          No, it's because women are treated like delicate little flowers and men are treated like disposable rocks. And if the rocks start thinking they're flowers, we call them faggots and pussies until they start acting like rocks again.

                          [–]sorceryofthetesticle 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                          Some background: I'm a ~30 year old who's had an extremely privileged life. Middle class upbringing, never been hungry, prestigious education mostly paid for by my generous/loving family. I'm intelligent (mild aspy, but raised well), charming, and good looking. My woes are unrelated to struggle or want.

                          I've also discreetly self harmed (mostly beating myself on the head with tools, utensils, rulers...) since I was 6 and have contemplated suicide probably 1/10th of my waking life starting at age 16.

                          Here's the deal with "talking:" I've talked to my siblings about it, I've talked to 3 therapists about it (I currently live with one, she's very RP and has done everything besides 51/50 to help me), I've talked to my mentors about it, I've talked to (unicorn-level-supportive) ex-girlfriends about it. I've got so much training in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy that I could be a therapist myself. None of that has brought lasting relief. It always comes back, and very quickly, when I use those options. (Honorable mention to the drug use, video games, masturbation... they only worsen the problem)

                          The one thing that has actually helped make a decent baseline is hard fucking labor. My mentor constantly told me "work will set you free," (he's a gnarly old sarcastic german dude) so I've worked my ass off whenever I get the chance. Not just lifting. I mean giving up my shitty white-collar masturbation job and instead digging ditches for 60 hours a week. Carrying roofing tiles up a 40 foot ladder and laying them in the summer heat. Chopping chord after chord of firewood.

                          Whatever it is, the only thing that has helped curb the suicidal thoughts is to beat my body up day after day, so that when I go home the only thing I can think about is how my body is buzzing from endorphins. When I'm in one of my frequent bad spots, that is my only goal in life: to work hard enough to stop thinking about killing myself. Very often this doesn't help, but what the fuck else am I going to do? I'm convinced that most men who commit suicide require this level of activity. There is no amount of thinking, talking, meditation, drug use, diet change etc. that will truly help most men. Even community is hit or miss (mostly miss, for me).

                          Unfortunately, working your ass off is the antithesis of the American Dream. We are told that you shouldn't have to work to be happy. Men try that path out and realize it isn't going to help them. They never learned about hard labor, so the only solution in their mind is to fucking die. Nobody realizes this and it is the greatest travesty. Men have outsourced their main source of happiness (physicality, labor in the hot sun) to fucking machines and immigrants. (A corollary: have you ever seen a seriously depressed day laborer? Those dude might have shitty, difficult lives, but they sure as fuck don't wan't to die. I know an old Ecuadorian whose entire family was murdered by Sandinistas and he's grateful as hell to wake up every day to work like a madman, even at 60 years old).

                          That's my 2 cents, and I know I'm right. If you're suicidal, maybe tell a buddy or your mom, but immediately afterward go BEAT THE FUCK out of your body, over and over and over. That is the only thing that will help.

                          [–]MadChestHairYuKnight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          Good luck with battling the Devils in your mind, my friend. I'll pray for you.

                          [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          his is an absolutely ridiculous state of affairs

                          It is. I help every man as much as I can. Hopefully I help people on here. I am permanently cognizant of how men are treated, and I level with them and their problems. And without laying out anything to do with TRP, I hit them with red pill truths where feasible. And tell them what to do about them too. Eg "Yeah... women do that... the best solution is to ignore them until they come around... and if she doesn't come around, the bars are still open..."

                          I'm also open about the problems I've had in the past too, and what I do about them. I'm not trying to prove I'm better, just that chances are I'm older and have been through it already and come out the other side.

                          [–]monzzter221 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          Someone commented something in there also, that he/she suspects that male suicide attempts are as common as female ones, but since men choose more immediately lethal methods then unsuccessful or backed out attempts don't go reported. Like if a guy puts a gun in his mouth but doesn't pull the trigger no ambulance ride, whereas a girl takes the pills or whatever she goes to the hospital regardless. So its likely that male suicide attempts go unreported a lot more often than female ones.

                          [–]Nature_Made 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          "With the onslaught of feminism, the decline will quickly turn into a free-for-all..."

                          Yeah, no, it won't. Thanks to the unpatriotic tax a percentage of your paycheck will be deducted in advance to support any women & minorities who choose not to work. The more they choose not to work, the more of your paycheck will be deducted. It will be a free-for-them, & they'll use all of that leisure time to talk even more shit about men & white privilege.

                          [–]ThereAndBlackAgain 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                          Man, fuck that "men get told to suck it up" thing. Men should be sucking it up, we don't benefit from whining the way women do. Women look at how they solve problems, by building vast social networks and belting their shit out to everyone who'll listen, and think that's the only way to be emotionally stable. Men don't need that, we have the ability to find that strength almost totally within ourselves. A small, private group of extremely close friends you can talk to about the really serious shit is all you need as a man. Men are doers, problem solvers, the more we bitch about a problem the more our failure to solve it reverberates around in our brains. If you want a case in point, look at the difference between TRP and /r9k/. Both "supportive male spaces" but only one of them is about "venting your feelings" like a little bitch and coincidentally it's the same one that school shooters are starting to come out of.

                          [–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                          A small, private group of extremely close friends you can talk to about the really serious shit is all you need as a man.

                          Not all men have this, usually women have managed to stop this happening. The wife has total control over the man "Stay home or I'll divorcerape you!" is a real and constant threat faced by most married men, limiting their contact with other men.

                          Very few men have other good men to be ourselves with. Such patriarchal priveleges are just about banned now.

                          [–]Abadoobie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                          Women practice emotional abuse through isolation. They make immense demands on time, attempt to cull their partner's social circle and demand to be their partners main source of emotional and psychological coping. And they often succeed, It's no wonder so many mend break when their relationships end. The woman has become their entire support system it's completely removed at the very time it's needed most.

                          In addition, women shame, ridicule and nag men to change how they cope as to be more dependent on them. Taking away their previous coping mechanism and sometimes creating new ones that are, again, dependent on them. A man's mental health becomes dependent on the women in his life. Then she leaves and he has nothing, not even the coping mechanisms he once relied on.

                          [–]mate96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          I don't know about that, perhaps it's the fact that discussing your feelings "like a bitch" on r9k will be met with trolls pretending to be women, calling you a cuck, telling you to kill yourself and more. It's not a supportive male space at all.

                          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (11 children)

                          Women attempt suicide more than men do, but men have a higher rate of success than women.

                          [–]CuntyMcFagNuts69 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                          Women could be saying "I attempted suicide" for attention. In other words, I took the curling iron and thought about dropping it in the bath

                          [–]Acksiom 7 points8 points  (8 children)

                          Women attempt suicide more than men do,

                          You don't actually know that. It's commonly repeated, but I study this issue, and I've looked for the evidence for that, and it's not there. Every reference cited just leads back to more recursive citations, or doesn't support the proposition. The last one I saw even stated the exact opposite -- that women's greater prevalence for reporting Self-Harm could not be accurately characterized as suicidalism -- yet it was cited as supporting the claim that women make more attempts.

                          [–]tio1w 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                          The last one I saw even stated the exact opposite

                          Very interested in the source for this.

                          [–]Acksiom 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                          http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/177/6/484

                          "The excess rate of DSH in females, plus the stronger association between DSH and suicide in males (Hawton & Fagg, 1988; Hawton et al, 1998), suggest that acts of DSH by females are more often based on non-suicidal motivation. In females, the appeal function of DSH, whereby DSH is used to communicate distress or to modify the behaviour and reactions of other people, seems more common. In males, DSH is more often associated with greater suicidal intent. It is interesting that in community samples, suicidal ideation is reported far more often by females than males (e.g. Paykel et al, 1974).

                          It is well recognised that males tend to use violent means of both suicide and DSH more often than do females. Greater suicidal intent, aggression, knowledge regarding violent means and less concern about bodily disfigurement, are all likely explanations for the excess of violent suicide in males."

                          The citation that stated the opposite: http://www.bcmj.org/articles/silent-epidemic-male-suicide --

                          "We also need to look at suicide attempts to understand the gender difference in suicidal behavior. Al­though men die by suicide at a higher rate, women have a higher rate of attempting suicide.16"

                          I note also that this is the only footnote I've seen on the page in two readings now that isn't properly formatted, and furthermore the statement is almost directly contradicted elsewhere in that article.

                          [–]tio1w 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          What I find very interesting is that the difference fades to almost nothing in China.

                          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          It should be called the rate of honest suicide attempts and the bitching for attention rate.

                          [–]ztsmart 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                          I feel that society does not really value men, at least on an individual level. Why should I care about society when society doesn't give a shit about me? It is depressing to know that the rest of the world sees me as disposable, but that is the truth. I matter to no one but myself, but that is enough. It will have to be.

                          [–]RedPharaohRising[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                          And that's one of the most difficult parts of the red pill itself, "it will have to be".

                          [–]j0hnan0n 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                          Any way we could get a link to the ELI5 post, or even just the cited sources?

                          [–]RedPharaohRising[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                          Not allowed to cross link within TRP. Edited archive into original post.

                          [–]RacialRealism 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Man I would so be a stay at home dad if I could be. Easiest job on the planet. It simply wouldn't work, unless you where gay.

                          [–]Gravityflexo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Less than ten men's shelters in north America, as if everything else this kid said want bullshit, this one tips the scales. There are 5 men's shelters in my county alone and its a medium size US city. I'm sure there are more than 5 others on the continent

                          [–]nugelz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          The reason mens suicide rates are so much higher, is because men are far more likely to use violent methods to commit suicide (shooting yourself or hanging) whereas woman are more likely to attempt suicide via overdosing on painkillers (paracetamol) or slitting their wrists. Doctors are far more likely to save a woman's life as a result of their less violent methods. All these stats are skewed. Im not saying that men aren't more likely to commit suicide, BUT they are far more likely to commit suicide successfully. Please do some research before you post things like this. I work part time for a well known charity that operates a suicide helpline. Ive never noticed whether one sex or the other makes more calls than the other. I would argue that a study into it is a waste of time. In issues like this i wouldn't say gender bias is an issue. Its an epidemic that needs to be addressed...thats it.

                          [–]Rasalom72 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          What nobody realizes about women and suicide is that, like most things, women just can't do it right. They screw up killing themselves, where a man makes sure to get the job done right the first time....

                          [–]youdonotnome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          It fucking infuriates me that some of the comments you quoted have been deleted

                          Fuck Reddit and its delusional mods

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