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Men's RightsFemale Head of Diversity and Inclusion disregards International Mens Day because it is for men (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by clumhoho

Summary

I get forwarded an email from the female Head of Diversity and Inclusion where she basically mocks my asking if we are celebrating International Men's Day. What is my best course of action?

Body

Im going to preface this post with the acknowledgment that this technically should be posted in askTRP but we all know that page is not as active as this one and this is quite urgent. Also, I would like to update this thread as the saga continues. Im looking for serious advice and opinions here guys. Its a tricky situation that I'm in and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Some background: I work in HR for a large finance company in Sydney, Australia. In March of this year, I remember there was a big hooplah made about International Women's Day around the office. This was, of course, headed by our female head of Diversity and Inclusion(D&I).These celebrations involved everything from bake sales to morning teas and awareness events, including talks from influential women in the finance sector. The global budget for these events was a staggering $25,000 AUD. A drop in a pond for a company as large as this. Seeing as International Men's Day(IMD) is on Thusday 19th November, I raised the question with a friend and senior manager(also female) in D&I if we are celebrating IMD and if not, why not? She escalated this to the head(actually there are only 2 members in the D&I team, both female, hows that for feminism diversity) of D&I and she made the mistake of sending me on her response in a private chat. Here is the exact correspondance, word for word:

[Head of D&I] - this may seem like a silly question but do you know why we dont recognise/acknowledge IMD? [OP] has asked me about this a number of times and all I said to him is that we consider IWD a more significant international celebration aligned to our Diversity goals and that IMD is generally not celebrated. Just wondered if you have any other commentary on this.

She also said linked the site at the bottom stating how IMD is focused on men and boys health.

The response received is nothing short of disgraceful

Possibly because at [Company Name] they are not under represented at senior levels and hold most positions of power, nationally they earn more than women for equal work, internationally they have better access to education, etc etc

Now, if this woman had even had the courtesy to open the link sent to her regarding IMD, she would have seen that the main goals are: * More focus on men and boys health * Improving gender relations * Promoting gender equality * Highlighting positive male role models.

Unfortunately, I think its pretty obvious what happened here. She opened the email, saw that it was for men and totally disregarded the idea using arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with the core tenets of IMD. Not the behaviour one would expect from the head of D&I now, is it?

My question is how best should I tackle this situation. Short of posting on Yammer(basically work facebook) about my disappointment of us not celebrating IMD and raising awareness myself, Im struggling to see what the next best move is. So I ask again for all serious advice on this matter. I cant post the private conversation, or even my knowledge of it, for fear of getting my mate(the senior manager who raised it) in trouble also. I would also like to not damage my future prospects within this company.

Help me TRP, you're my only hope.

EDIT

So its pretty clear that there is one common theme to 99% of the responses below. I've decided to keep my mouth shut and say nothing as realistically, its a lose/lose situation. I am undecided as of yet whether or not to completely delete this sub to further protect myself and my career. Unfortunately, they win this round.

I want to thank you all for your insights and opinion. They were all read and most were appreciated.

C


[–]Endorsed ContributoriBrokeRSA 265 points266 points  (26 children)

I would also like to not damage my future prospects within this company.

Don't continue this line of discussion any further, then. You shouldn't be making a show of any MRA-style activism agitation. You have very little to gain here except for possibly marking yourself as a political target and earning yourself some powerful enemies. It's also pointless, in my eyes. How will "raising awareness" improve your station at that company in any tangible way? If anything, your involvement will make the top brass think you're a bit of a whiner with no tact, even if they secretly agree with you. The only reason these diversity initiatives exist in the first place is to function as "lawsuit insurance". Class action lawsuits are expensive.

Law 38.

[–]clumhoho[S] 43 points44 points  (17 children)

This was my fear. Im not trying to piss anyone off as Im quite junior in the company.

Cheers for the input.

[–]Dr_Killpatient 53 points54 points  (6 children)

What you're going to do, is you're going to thank her for her response and forget all about it.

Once you become the head of Diversity and Inclusion, you will fire every woman in the department for only promoting female gender under the false banner of equality, while disregarding male - in another words, you'll fire them for their incompetence.

As long as that hasn't happened, keep your mouth shut and fall in line.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (5 children)

What you're going to do, is you're going to thank her for her response and forget all about it.

That's right. Write a simple email like,

"[Head of D & I]

Thank you for your prompt response and clear explanation.

Best regards,

[OP]"

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child)

In addition to what thethirdcoast said, don't pander to her in the email and say something like, "I'm glad you have helped me understand why IWD is more important then IMD" or some bullshit like that.

Don't let her view you as weak, just thank her and move it along. His skeleton is exactly what you should say verbatim, maybe slightly altered to your personal taste.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agreed. Think of it like when in text game she disagrees with you or says no to a date etc. Just reply with Okay. Nothing more. Same logic here

[–]Purecorrupt 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Very short and concise or another option is to not respond at all.

Another option is to not bring the subject up again unless they bring it up to you. Even with the word "op has pestered me" if it's brought up act like it was no big deal, forgotten, etc. If they truly don't care they won't bring it up again.

[–]trpalternate 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think in this case a brief but courteous reply is the better option. Not responding can make it look like the original email was just him stirring up trouble. Replying with a thank you reframes it as an honest inquiry and that both parties consider the matter closed.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (0 children)

yeah you just cannot win tbh. You'll just destroy your own life. Such is the times we live in

[–]reddymcwoody 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Just as a tip, if you haven't read the 48 laws of power I highly recommend that you do. If you have, read it again as you wouldn't be in this situation if you had.

[–]1Claude_Reborn 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Let it go, and don't make an issue of it at work because that's the fastest way to get sacked and blacklisted.

[–]ztsmart 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It is difficult to follow rule 38, but the above poster is correct. Although we sometimes come across issues like this that are absolutely infuriating we gain nothing by pressing the issue. It is better to just remain incognito with our beliefs especially in situations where they are socially unpalatable

[–]RacialRealism 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't play the women's game, you will lose.

Work hard, be successful.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (4 children)

The only thing I would do is use dumb concern asking for citations to these gender wage gap statistics. Watch them scramble.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

If dude didn't care about his future with this company that would be one way to play it, mayhaps the best way.

However if he did that he would be labeled a misogynist, shit lord, subversive, backwards, etc. You know the terms.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You're missing the point.

You act like you're on her side and request sources in the name of spreading the message.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I doubt thats the way it would be received.

Remember all men are rapers and abusers and oppressors.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This. Especially if she is reading an email rather than in person. She can infer hostility because she can't hear tone of voice or see body language.

[–]Its_All_Been_Done 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Good advice. Learned this quickly only out of luck when I got in "trouble" with HR.

I used to be a soldier for the company before they started this same shit. No more. Bare minimum effort and a carefully crafted image of compliance from now on.

[–]ProductivityMonster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

when it comes to HR, never say more than necessary (and get a lawyer if it comes to that). Think of them as a bunch of screeners for possible threats to the company, including from its own employees.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

There was nothing I could over 10 years ago during the medical school process when women were let in with significantly lower MCAT scores than myself (who got waitlisted).

Fortunately, one school let me in with a partial scholarship just due to dumb luck. The "diversity dean" did away with the academic scholarship the next year and made it "need based" for minorities.

Until enough men AS A GROUP get together, nothing will be accomplished. If I complained about it too much, I would've been failed out.

[–]scamper_22 5 points6 points  (4 children)

And we wonder why feminists have so much power.

If someone brings a gun to a fight, you have to get a gun too. They have the courts, lawd, hr depts...

You have to use those. Now do it smartly. No hate. Youre a victim...

It took women decades of fighting. It wont be instantaneous. Ideally more powerful take up this fight, but thats the irony. They dont care. Whereas powerful women do care.

[–]kinklianekoff 9 points10 points  (2 children)

the victim card is not the way of men. It wouldn't work anyway. What is needed for this kind of shit to disappear is that men in power need to shut them down. Unfortunately, the justice system and the political climate needs to realign itself to reality to make it feasible to ignore SJW HR bullshit.

[–]scamper_22 2 points3 points  (1 child)

When youre at work and theres corporate politics, you have to play that game. You dont get to opt out like a knight and say you will only work with honest honorable people.

A lot of men would say playing women is not the way of men. But if the sexual market place is what it is.

Thats the game. Play it

[–]ProductivityMonster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Learn to operate successfully within corrupt systems and maybe one day you'll amass enough power to make a positive change.

[–]Subtletorious 62 points63 points  (6 children)

Don't bother, mate. You are probably already red flagged in HR files.

As an Australian in the finance sector do you recall ANZ bank giving their low paid female workers a bonus just for being women? (Men on the same payscale got nothing). And that same female only bonus was endorsed by the Equal Opportunity Commission.

Given that environment, there is nothing your calls for "equality" can do.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (5 children)

Fuck that pussy country man, unbelievable.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

It is, I'm in sydney ATM deciding what to study / career choice to make (hoping /looking at stem) and the guys here especially the office workers are panzies. Women are on pedastals.

Even got in a debate with a feminist, with the pay scale /equality, when asked why doesent xyz just employ women? "Uhh because uhh there not dicks!".

Wtf. This bitch serious?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Like bitch either women dont work as hard, or they're not paid less. You really think companies care about hiring men more than profits? Lol dumb cunts.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly.

If you want to black knight it you can always say 'well if women were paid less then why hasn't anyone tried making a company of all women because that'd reduce labor costs by 10-30%' and watch their heads explode.

[–]haxurmind 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Fuck that pussy country man, unbelievable.

Things are good in the bush, women and the like don't enjoy the lack of creature comforts so I can say all kinds of things not for polite society (things are bad in that regard: you can get fined for swearing in public in the state of Victoria) at my leisure as I do things no amount of talking could accomplish.

Among the comforts of modern society yes things are bad, I just didn't notice how badly some women vocally despised my male self before I did a search with Google Australia about articles on International Women's Day earlier this year (oh my, so much wrath and pettiness from the 'mature' sex).

As for the OP, best learn to put up and shut up very quickly before you get roasted by the females in that toxic workplace of yours. The rule is equally true in Australia as it is from my readings of things in the US viewed through TRP.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Australia strikes me as extremely pussy ass feminist. I hope that shithole country goes down the drain.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 98 points99 points  (21 children)

Forget it. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose from this.

nationally they earn more than women for equal work

Not sure about Australia, but this is a myth nowadays, that is not statistically backed up.

If you battle HR, you'll lose. The company wants to be seen to be doing its bit to help victims women, and the women in D&I have their own sexist anti-male agenda. Neither of them care about a trouble maker.

You cannot use "but that's sexist" against these people. They don't care that it's sexist. Feminism is a sexual strategy, and it's a strategy that is obviously pro-female and anti-male. "But equality!" is their fallback position after being criticised for being anti-male (mott and bailey attack).

In other words - it's fucking pointless to kick up a fuss on this. You won't win much, and if you win anything you'll just be a target. Been there, done that.

Black knighting and other mockery is more productive and more fun, but again - be careful about your job, especially if you need their reference to get another.

[–]bowie747 58 points59 points  (9 children)

If women earn less money for equal work and equal output. Then why aren't all companies filled with women?

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 44 points45 points  (7 children)

Because.... hamster hamster hamster.... patriarchy, obviously! :)

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Having come to the red pill only semi-recently, the word hamster is one of my favorites. It perfectly describes all the times I've logically won an argument but still lost because of some precious fee-fees.

[–]Enjoyitbeforeitsover 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I dont think ive looked hard enough but can you clarify this term for someone quite new to TRP. Thanks.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Here you go: https://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/the-rationalization-hamster-is-now-immortal/

A nice blog post with poignant examples. The main idea is that it's the certain type of rationalization one commonly sees from people who put their emotions before logic.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

how many times do I have to FUCKING tell you... PATRIARCH hurts MEN TOOOOOOO!!!!! -big red

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because you get what you pay for. ;)

[–]BradPill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Companies are filling more and more with women - especially now that the majority of college-graduates are women. Not that they studied anything business-related, but they will be hired just because of that piece of paper - by the women in HR. Makes you wonder how much easier the Chinese are going to get it, taking over global economy....

[–]clumhoho[S] 21 points22 points  (6 children)

Well said.

Its basic risk vs reward. High risk. Low reward. Bad move. I dont fancy painting a giant target on my back.

Appreciate all the input.

[–]glottony 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Perhaps you already have, friend. Lay low for awhile

[–]FatGirlsInPartyHats 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I completely agree. I think he's already gotten on the radar in a very negative way.

[–]Ewing_Sarcoma 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Especially how many are keen on holding a pretty grudge for years... Multiply that by one thousand and debilitating insanity you'll have an idea if the revenge craze if those feminists...

[–]Ewing_Sarcoma 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You already made yourself a target by merely asking about men's day and suggesting it has any value. See how your next meeting with HR will roll out...

[–]trpalternate 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seriously, take /u/thethirdcoast's advice and write an email saying, "thank you for the explanation" and leave it at that. Don't pander, but make it seem like you accept her explanation as valid. Then keep your head down.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Too late, you're already on their radar.

Keep your head down and focus on fulfilling or exceeding your key results/objectives expected. Document everything as much as possible to protect yourself. Make sure to point out your latest achievements to your direct supervisor at least once a week.

[–]tio1w 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Not sure about Australia, but this is a myth nowadays, that is not statistically backed up.

It's also a lie in Australia.

[–]cariboo_j 2 points3 points  (1 child)

nationally they earn more than women for equal work

OP should reply "Is that going on in this company?! We're paying women lower salaries for the same positions?! I should inform you that is illegal and we may face trouble from the Australian Labor Commission if this information gets out..."

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good point.

And they'll answer that they're raising awareness of other women in other companies and other countries.

Oppression of men and men's interests is of course totally fine and to be expected and not worth mentioning, no matter where it happens... eg "Do you know there are millions of men in this country who have been tricked into raising someone else's children!?" Watch that hamster take this and run with it.

Seriously though, don't. Women have defined themselves as the Universal Victim and men as the Universal Oppressor. Everything that happens must be hamstered until it follows this narrative.

[–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (3 children)

I'm honestly pissed that we live in a world where

"Head of Diversity and Inclusion" is an actual job title

[–]cheeky_throwaway101 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Gotta fill the female quota somehow. I bet the bods at the top piss themselves handing out these non existent jobs to people who believe they have power.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbalalasaurus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's even more aggravating when you look at it from an economic point of view. So much deadweight for nothing other than placating them feelz.

[–]clint_bronson 43 points44 points  (1 child)

There's a men day? The fuck are we? women?

[–]Limekill 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Its a good, on the job, drinking opportunity.

Just take a case to work and throw your tinnies over your shoulder. Anyone asks - "celebrating men's day"

[–]sir_wankalot_here 73 points74 points  (14 children)

I am a Jew in Nazi Germany and for some reason they don't want to release funds to celebrate Jew day. I don't understand, last week they released 150,000 Riechmarks to the Nazis where they had a celebration blaming every single one of Germany's problems on Jews.

You would probably tell me I am pretty stupid, meanwhile ....

She opened the email, saw that it was for men and totally disregarded the idea using arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with the core tenets of IMD. Not the behaviour one would expect from the head of D&I now, is it?

This is exactly the behaviour I would expect from a psychpath. Why do I say she is a psychopath ? Because people who are in charge of these special interest groups are only concerned about the interests of their own group and no one else. They will lie, manipulate and make up false accusations to advance their cause.

The modern male is equivalent to a Jew in 1935 Nazi Germany. Just wanting to have a men's day means you are aggressive, hate women and want to rape them. That is the reality of things now days.

If you want to be really stupid, you could send her more emails but I am pretty sure that your requests would be deemed as sexual advances on her. In fact on a subconscious level you probably want to rape her. She ofcourse would put potential rapists like you on a sex offender list.

Advise, shut the fuck up, you can't win this one, you will dig a hole for yourself.

[–]clumhoho[S] 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Advise, shut the fuck up, you can't win this one, you will dig a hole for yourself.

Sometimes you've just got to admit defeat. It pisses me off but as you so rightly showed, in the times we live in I will be labelled a misogynist or worse.

[–]sir_wankalot_here 22 points23 points  (1 child)

You want to play the game using their rules, you can't win that way. Times like these require that one works in covert ways. So things like the 4Chan campaign with feminists pissing their pants are actually quite effect.

Whether or not any feminists fell for it doesn't matter. That they where forced to write statements saying they didn't fall for it shows that it worked on some level.

http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/piss-for-equality-4chan/

[–]destraht 7 points8 points  (0 children)

When I was 17 when I was drunk I fell down on a beer bottle and cut myself and then I thought that someone had attacked me when I saw the blood. I'm a guy so I moved on from my delusion.

[–]Ewing_Sarcoma 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Send her a thank you email, acknowledging her answer and letting her know this matter is now closed. Then move on, and grind some numbers.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Damn. Playing the Hitler card is usually the worst form of straw man argument, but I got no objection to the analogy here - names on lists and all. This shit is truly out of hand.

[–]2comment 2 points3 points  (4 children)

The problem with the Hitler card is that it's tossed around too much. This being no exception. It's just like the perpetual 9/11 card during the 00s.

[–]antariusz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

How dare you say 9/11 was just a card.

Do you support terrorists?

(all joking aside, I thought the OP's analogy was a great example of WHY pushing the issue doesn't work, it's not socially approved right now to be supportive of any "male agendas", until the social climate changes, it's best to just stick with people you can personally vouch to be decent human beings and not genocidal, and chances are, the people in power at the top are going to be the LEAST sympathetic, that's what makes a story like Schindler's List so powerful, he was actually in a position to help, generally the people who CAN help, are in that position because they are so zealous in their support of the popular position)

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[removed]

    [–]Ochreata 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    We shouldn't ignore one of the best case-studies of authoritarianism in history.

    We already do. We ignore the 20 million murdered in Russia by the Jewish Bolsheviks, pre WWII, and we ignore the fact that the Jews declared war on Germany in 1934 in favour of some very dubious stories that uphold our actions as being virtuous.

    Having taken the time to actually study the world wars these Hitler analogies do my head in. Historic blue pill....

    [–]ChadThundercockII 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Then the Jews started a killing spree from 1948 to this day. Imagine that. Just three years after WWII.

    [–]daedius 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Minor correction. Sociopath is the correct word for someone who only has empathy for a narrow group. Psychopaths have no empathy for anyone except themselves.

    [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    I thought sociopath = self empathy only, while psychopath = general term for maliciously insane person.

    [–]daedius 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Common mistake. They are gradations of empathy. There's actually like an official test you can take which you score on various levels. Sociopaths are lower middle (racists, elitists, femanist, coaches, etc), psychopaths are low (serial killers, generals, ceos).

    Psychopaths don't necessarily have to be malicious or insane, they simply lack a sense of feeling that creates very sometimes messed up world views. I know a guy who suffers a brain condition that affects his empathical ability, he basically survives by mimicing what important people in society have told him to do. It's a more analytical way of living not really based on feelings, but rather statistics of what society finds normal.

    [–]causeandcorrelation 21 points22 points  (0 children)

    Stop. Immediately. Young gun in a large financial firm in Sydney and you're already doing your best to make CLM's (career limiting moves). You should be focusing on getting noticed for excellence.

    Here is the reality. The world doesn't care for men. You cannot weaponise victimhood, so stop associating publicly with men's rights. No one cares.

    Start focusing on your personal brand in a way that is meaningful to the firm you work for.

    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

    [deleted]

    [–]clumhoho[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    I hear you mate. Im liking your male role models idea. But as you said, not sticking my neck out too far would be wise.

    I never show my red pill views in public. Thats some all TRP'ers should be very conscious of.

    [–]2Archterus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Fellow Australian here. Pretty grim situation. Last year there were reports that a university in South Australia was going to commence a men's studies program. You can guess the rest. Shut down by the feminists. I agree with the above advice, until you have some power, adopt a low profile. Good luck

    [–]greatsalteedude -1 points0 points  (3 children)

    Summary: Why do such politics exist in workplaces?

    Body:

    I'm sorry if this is irrelevant, but why do such 'politics' in a workplace exist? As a 16 year old, it baffles me that such things do actually happen in big companies. I've overheard my dad, who did tell some of his stories in the past- 'how employees exploit company money' and so on. Shouldn't the objective be a collective well being and growth of everyone, instead of it being people getting things done for themselves?

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    When I was your age I used to think like you did, that the adult world was the magical place that operated on logic and rational decision making.

    What a fool I was!

    [–]FEMIMARXIST 10 points11 points  (1 child)

    You're dealing with sociopathic man-haters. As others have said you have little to gain and much to lose. So don't play their Corporate P.C. rigged game and make yourself a target for nothing.

    If you want to do anything you have to work outside the system and continue to read. Bide your time because nothing is going to change until enough men wake up.

    Take solace in the fact that many of these careerist harpies are secretly miserable and have killed the golden goose for many a woman in the younger generation(s).

    [–]hebola4lyfe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    these careerist harpies are secretly miserable and have killed the golden goose for many a woman in the younger generation(s).

    There are enough whiteknights and manginas to rescue the younger generations.

    Our aim should be to destroy these men who were responsible for all this shit we have to deal with .

    The problem is not the women. The problem is the cuck whiteknight manginas who gave everything for FREE to women.

    [–]Billee_Boyee 17 points18 points  (6 children)

    Step one: Document everything. Date and timestamp it if possible.

    Step two: Send out resumes.

    Step Three: Get new job.

    Step four: Send a nice letter to the owner of the company saying his HR department drove you out.

    Step five: Post owners response to Reddit.

    [–]BradPill 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    Finance is a small world - the owner couldn't care less some junior muppet quits over femi-nazis in his company (if he did, they wouldn't be in that position in the first place) - but might talk to the owner of that new company at the golf course...

    [–]Billee_Boyee 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    It's not the quitting that matters. It's the possible poopstorm that could ensue if the Reddit posting of his reaction happens to catch. Maybe the local news will run the story on the local company that doesn't care about discrimination.

    In any case, OP needs a new job. That's a toxic environment. Get a better job and let the women wonder why all the opportunities seem to go to the bold.

    [–]jcrpta 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Maybe the local news will run the story on the local company that doesn't care about discrimination.

    Tell me, when was the last time you saw a news story about a company discriminating against men?

    [–]BradPill -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    Well, you say to document it all, then telling the owner - who doesn't want to be bothered with this (in a private letter), so he jokes about it to his golf-buddies. Posting it on Reddit, which then might be picked up in the media would create a shit-storm, yes. And probably end OP's career in finance, even if he works at another company.

    [–]Ewing_Sarcoma -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

    I like that. Does OP, who's whining to the two feminists of bogus diversity and inclusion department (this is so FUNNY to write) will have the balls to do this?

    [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

    Women should not be in positions of power because they think men exist for women.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    and a multitude of other Reasoner.

    [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    Sure, but solipsism is the easiest sell for the general public.

    [–]savedarticles 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    HR is the enemy. HR doesn't give a shit about you. They are overpaid shills for the company. Your well being matters 0 to them. Your problems and concerns are liabilities to them. They cover their asses and will only suck the dick of the very top top executives. Stay away from them entirely. Only engage them on technical things about pay, health care, 401k and so forth and even then, keep it short, strictly professional, and sweet. Preferably over email so there is a paper trail. If they don't know who the fuck you are, you are doing a good job.

    [–]JollyO 9 points10 points  (2 children)

    Approach it less from a Men's Day perspective and frame it more of a health awareness sort of thing.

    Like, "every year 50,000 brothers, fathers and sons die of prostate cancer. Funding for this research is sorely lacking. Every November son's around the world participate in No Shave November, raising awareness and donating what they don't spend on shave supplies on cancer research. This November help Australia's sons, father's and brothers raise in the fight against cancer. "

    I believe the word 'men' is 'triggering' but familial words like son, father and brother invoke emotion.

    That's my 2 cents if you feel like tackling this next year

    [–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    A more apropos way of getting their attention is framing it from a women's perspective. "Every year 50,000 brothers, fathers, and sons die of prostate cancer leaving bereaved mothers, wives, sisters, and daughters...." You get the idea.

    [–]_raisin 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    The company I work at has a model that doesn't have an HR dept. I love the design.
    Basically, you give all of the respective HR roles to different parts of the company. Payroll becomes part of the Finance dept, Recruiting becomes part of a recruiting team, special events are planned by a creative team, etc.
    And if you have problems at work, you talk to your team lead or higher-up like a man instead of crying to mommy. Its awesome.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    You don't shit where you eat. That not only involves sex, but avoiding anything that could compromise you as an employee, basically if there's a shit storm coming, run the fuck away.

    On a side note, when the pill is on your side, every day is fucking men day.

    [–]B0u1dA 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    HR is a predator posing as a house pet. Do not engage. Remember 'think as you like but behave like others'

    [–]FeeFeeFeaster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    This is correct. HR & Employee Advocate resources exist as a buffer between the employee & the company. Their job is to protect the company, not the employee.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    leave it alone like everyone said

    but seriously fuck all these "days" they have now. Sandwich day, womens day, mens day, kids day, pancake day, etc

    wtf?

    [–]sodainthewatercup6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Devil's advocate...

    Most posts and replies here are rants. Rants about how fucked up society is, and how much more fucked up it will be if things continue the way they have been going. And the popular opinion here is to do nothing?

    More and more men are donning their red-tinted lenses every day since the manosphere has been growing over the past decade or more. And as men, we are sacrificial creatures. If not for sex, then for those that come after us. A quote comes to mind:

    The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The second best time is now. --Anonymous

    If not now, I believe men like us need to start making moves to better our world's future. I don't trust MRA to do this for us, judging by the type of men I've been hearing about within the group, as well as their actions.

    Of course I agree with inaction when it comes to a lack of personal gain. This is a situation where there may not be a personal gain, but societal gain has to start somewhere. Men of value, such as ourselves have a more powerful voice than others. We need to start using it for those that follow us. If not now, very soon.

    Otherwise, we have no right to continue whining in this forum. When you see whining about a problem that can't be fixed, you gotta ask yourself "Is that what men do?". That's what women and children do.

    The message is normally positive here, but with so many males stuck in the anger phase ranting about bullshit it makes it difficult to find the real message/moral intended more often than not.

    [–]thenemaxofredpill 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Great thing about being a man.....we have the ability to "not give a fuck". Who gives a fuck if this bitter cat lady leaves out a man day. Every day is "man day". Why? Because we are men and make it so. These cat ladies will do anything to get attention for us. Don't give it to them. Just stop caring. It is all one big shit test. If she leaves it out, print out some flyers for your office/cubicle and hang them up. When people ask you why you are wearing a party hat; just say it's international man day. My company doesn't recognize veterans day. My boss, myself, and my co-worker are all vets. Did we give a fuck if they recognized it? Nope. We just left at noon and told everyone we were vets and are going to get a drink. Told them that we would see them tomorrow. The end. Who cares.

    [–]Stythe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    There's the smart move which is don't say anything and keep your job secure. There's also the smartass move, which is respond to the email in sarcasm about how unimportant an event like this us with your own reasons it actually IS significant, followed by you humorously setting up a banner in your workplace, getting some party whistles and generally being a dick. The latter won't go over well, but it would be satisfying.

    [–]unseen1unknown 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I was hoping this kind of shit wouldnt become a thing in Aus. After that bonus for women bullshit with ANZ i saw that we will follow suit with usa and the UK. Thank god im in a trade. Hopefully when the economic crash hits Aus wont be hit as hard

    [–]BlueFreedom420 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This woman was trained to push liberalism and marxism in the company. Basically she is like a Russian political officer, making sure that the company toes the politically correct line.

    I know you worry about your job but if you decided to e mail her response to everyone in the company, maybe you would awaken a few people.

    [–]iliketreeslikereally 1 point2 points  (9 children)

    God, I could never live in the U.S.

    Edit: my bad, dude is from down under

    [–]clumhoho[S] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

    This is in Australia! Is that worse?

    [–]iliketreeslikereally 1 point2 points  (6 children)

    Apparently it's just the same in some regards. Scandinavian and UK universities are no better either.

    [–]_raisin 1 point2 points  (5 children)

    Not true. I'm in a very conservative Utah and i don't see as much liberal chaos. it depends on the city or state.

    [–]antariusz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yea, if there is anything I've learned over a lifetime on the internet. Europeans tend to underestimate just how big and diverse the U.S. is and Australia is similar, there is no "australian culture" just like there is no true "american culture"

    Sure, some things are true countrywide, like vegemite or pb+j, but it would be like meeting a New Yorker and asking why isn't he wearing a cowboy hat.

    [–]MightyTaint -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

    Ah yes, the bliss that is government in bed with a wacky religion instead of in bed with wacky liberal ideals.

    [–]_raisin 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    Religion > liberals every day of the week. Mormons actually believe in gender roles. Way better than tie-dye hair and feminism you get in san francisco.

    [–]MightyTaint 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    You claim that, but most Mormon men are completely hen-pecked by their wives. But they get to claim they are the conduit for god's power, so I guess they have that going for them.

    There are more options than an Orem lifestyle or San Francisco.

    [–]_raisin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    I'm from northern Cal, but I've lived in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Arkansas, and now Utah. I don't see it as a long term plan (maybe 5 years max) but I don't hate it. I'm at a big tech company here, so the mormons I see are more dominant Harvard MBA types.

    I've definitely seen what you said though.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Head of Diversity and Inclusion

    ???

    are you telling me that I can make up fake positions and make bank doing nothing at multinational corporations?

    [–]1nzgs[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    We don't need an international man day or whatever, because these special days are for weak people to feel sorry for themselves, just another part of the left-wing victim-industry.

    [–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    If you must pursue this, then the next logical argument is that the Head of D&I is unnecessarily turning it into a zero-sum game. There is no reason you can't recognize IMD without shitting on women or IWD. Promoting the health of male employees and improving gender relations sound like positive things for the company, and don't put down or reduce the struggles of women in any way.

    [–]SheriffBart42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    GTFO of Australia. I've only heard horrid things about it. Every woman I've met from there has been awful.

    [–]Cyclo_Hexanol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I think that approaching them about this was a mistake.

    I don't know exactly what their job title is but I would expect that they are looking to promote DIVERSITY and not HEALTH.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    We live in scary times man.

    [–]Kalidane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Didn't read.

    Don't play their game. Your goal is the opposite of theirs and there is no positive outcome for you.

    [–]nantucketghost -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    deleted What is this?

    [–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    We all know that "diversity" is code for anti-male or anti-white (whichever applies in context, if not both). This is just another data point.

    Being you're a cog in a corporate machine, I would let this one go as feminists have completely dominated the "gender equality" talk to the point that just speaking up against them (especially on record via private message) would get you fired.

    [–]Ewing_Sarcoma 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Drop it. And do not participate to future women's day in any way. Ideally, switch for a job in a company that do not encourage that kind of nonsense.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Doing this will not help your position at this company. Focus on how you can be a more important employee at the firm. As of now all of TRP needs to be done in the shadows and in a place where you will not endanger yourself. Let these ideas come from an outside source.

    When some International Men's Day contacts your company asking if they would like to participate in their diversity program that is a different matter. Especially when International Men's Day gets some other corporations backing it.

    [–]long-lostfriend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    In addition to the comments rightly telling you to protect your job, what would be your motivation to press it further? Days like IWD or IMD seem to be more about the feels than anything else. Why give a fuck if your company recognizes you for your Y-chromosome or not?

    [–]Rasalom72 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You can put the bug in someone farther up the food chain about it and let HIM fight for it. Just make sure its a SJW type and spin it to him about how the company needs to handle this issue, because it's important to women.... these men are someone (read some woman's) fathers/ sons/ husbands/ etc..

    [–]RPcoyote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Not a fight worth having bro. You've raised awareness already so now you're done. Move on.

    And what are you doing working in HR anyway?

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

    [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    [deleted]

    What is this?

    [–]tio1w 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Just shut up.

    If you want do something anonymously. Being public will not help you nor the people you want to help.

    [–]anjkh -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    This is bullshit. Utter bullshit. If I were you, and conmfortable enough to look for other jobs ASAP, I would cause a shitstorm just to get an even level. I wouldn't care about the damn "celebration". I would go to ends to expose their shit and ruin every sign of superiority of that mock of department. And let them fire me, and sue them back. Fuck them and their politically correct company behaviour. This is why feminism came to this level of power; because men let it be.

    [–]muddynips -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    This isn't redpill so much as MRA. Stop taking on un-winnable fights for attention.

    [–]rpwunder -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    The appropriate celebration of IMD = not saying a word to anyone about it then keeping your gym appointment. Lift.

    [–]wittymore -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    Hindsight is 20/20, yeah.

    You made a mistake by asking this question in the first place. There was virtually NO way this would have ever been accepted. Asking and being told "No" has undermined your credibility and accentuated your lack of power in the company.

    Pushing it further will be an exercise in futility and, should you by some miracle succeed, it will be a favor granted to you by a female 'superior' Another way to accentuate your low status within the company. The more likely result however would be a target on your back, which is obviously undesireable.

    Best to not make requests like this, period. Work up to the position where you can demand in stead of request...and indulge in what you find important in your spare time.

    [–]CaptainObivous -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    "Celebrate" International Men's Day?

    Really?

    Holidays are for feebs and children.

    [–]rockstarr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    The HR lady at my job is mid 40s, unattractive, and a self-described "witch."

    We also have an elderly accountant that doesn't quite understand computers who almost certainly would have been fired for incompetence if she were a man.

    The two of them called me into a "meeting" that I could tell was an excuse to waste time/steal my energy.

    Before they could talk, I told them up front that I was working on an important project (true) and that I only had a couple minutes.

    The old one heard this, realized I wasn't going to entertain their bullshit, asked me one question ("Do you work with X process?") and when I said no, she said OK, I could leave.

    The old lady and the HR witch both wrote an email to my manager to complain about me.

    Luckily, my manager doesn't give a fuck about office politics or entertaining unproductive employees.

    Anyway, the bullshit of female politics in the workplace/Western thought programming is mindless, and I support your sentiment in wishing to erase the nonsense.

    [–]GnarlyBellyButton87 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    If they don't want an international Men's day because it's for men, then shouldn't they also get rid of an International Women's Day because it's for women?

    [–][deleted]  (12 children)

    [deleted]

    [–]1Claude_Reborn 14 points15 points  (2 children)

    NO.

    THAT IS A FUCKING STUPID IDEA.

    HR.

    IS.

    NOT.

    YOUR.

    FRIEND.

    HR is never your friend if you are a man.

    HR is almost always staffed with feminists / SJW types, and they WILL fuck up your life. They are there to protect the company, not help you.

    They are there to protect the company FROM you.

    If you're a junior, and you rock the boat, the quickest, easiest, least expensive, path with the lowest risk, is to fire you.

    [–]FatGirlsInPartyHats 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Can confirm, HR is purely there to figure out ways to prevent lawsuits and how to fire people if need-be.

    [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    I have the best HR ever. A metal head, cussing, misogynist. Idk how he pulled it off, but he makes it work.

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    take it up with HR.

    Fuck no. never ever do that. you never win HR.

    [–]clumhoho[S] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

    They are HR. The only people that it could possibly be raised with ie Employee Relations.

    Perhaps leaving this one might be the best course of action.

    [–]RPcoyote -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    Dude grow up. HR is the department that does the dirty work. Used to be called Personnel. You must get out of there. Your best bet career wise is to get into executive comp. I know a guy who makes a lot of money, works with boards, comp committees, high level stuff. Is a consultant, travels, nice lifestyle and high paid. Doesn't handle dirty work and crap like "employee engagement" and lgbt days etc.

    [–]Devereux_Lyminster -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

    Remember that the HR department is there to protect the company, not you.

    Women in Australian do not get equal pay for equal work. Those stats should not be in dispute and are easy to find.

    As everyone else has said, this is NOT the way to address the issue. It will take a while for the "target" you painted on yourself to fade. Take care to avoid the issue, even at the pub after work.

    [–]tio1w -1 points0 points  (4 children)

    Women in Australian do not get equal pay for equal work. Those stats should not be in dispute and are easy to find.

    I'd like to see those stats. All the ones I've seen clearly indicate same pay for same work.

    [–]Devereux_Lyminster 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Seriously? A cursory internet search seems to provides ample:

    For pure statistics, start with The Australian Bureau of Statistics here and here. Internationally, start with the OECD.

    For a comprehensive analysis in Australia, read this independent report of 2013 commissioned by Fair Work Commission.

    There are plenty of scholarly articles too. Try Google Scholar. Eg. Wage compression and the gender pay gap.

    If OP were to take your argument forward then I'm sure he'd be shot down before he started (see the sidebar note on "Acknowledging Reality").

    I would love to see evidence to the contrary. Can you please provide links?

    [–]tio1w 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    The Australian Bureau of Statistic

    these sources do not support what you wrote in any way.

    They are hourly wage ratios without being conditional on equal work. The usual tactic almost everywhere.

    In fact the plot in the second source shows that Australia has the second lowest disparity of the countries listed, Switzerland having the highest.

    Given that in many of the countries in the middle there isn't any different pay for different work (when controlled for profession, years of experience and time actually worked) I find your claim very dubious. In the Netherlands for example the large difference comes from the fact that women overwhelmingly work part-time low demanding jobs.

    As for sources:

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/03/07/get-fact-do-men-make-much-more-than-women-for-the-same-job/

    States the usual:

    “The large $5000 pay gap favouring males observed at the overall level can be attributed, at least in part, to the fact that males tend to be overrepresented in higher-paying fields such as engineering. In addition, some of the larger wage gaps are observed in fields with relatively low response numbers (e.g. dentistry, optometry) which could make them unreliable.”

    In that article there's a link to http://www.graduatecareers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Graduate%20Salaries%202012%20%5Bsecured%5D.pdf

    Which shows that the "gap" arises due to different choices. Men choose fields that pay more. See table 1.

    Again, you claimed different pay for equal work, please provide data conditional of equal work and not meaningless global averages.

    your Fair Work Commission report has this pearl:

    Burden of proof An important influence on EU member states is the burden of proof provision set out in Article 19(1) of the Recast Directive, which states that: Member States shall take such measures as are necessary, in accordance with their national judicial systems, to ensure that, when persons who consider themselves wronged because the principle of equal treatment has not been applied to them establish, before a court or other competent authority, facts from which it may be presumed that there has been direct or indirect discrimination, it shall be for the respondent to prove that there has been no breach of the principle of equal treatment.

    So if someone is butthurt, others are guilty until proven innocent.

    PS: Never mind, I just checked your account. It's probably a throaway and these are your only posts in here. You're probably just trolling. Nice try though but you just used the same bullshit recycled and debunked arguments that have been used ad nauseam.

    [–]Devereux_Lyminster 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I just read some of your comment history. You are an appalling person. You are also wrong and are cherry picking (even within the references you provide).

    I will not engage with you again. Goodbye.

    [–]tio1w 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Coming from a dishonest individual such as yourself I'll take that as compliment.

    No sources or reason refutation from your part? Color me surprised!

    Did you really think your bullshit would fly in this sub?

    Like, really?!

    [–]dicklord_airplane -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

    you'll never win that battle, in my opinion. this is a fundmental aspect of human nature. men are expendable and we, as intelligent great apes, instinctually feel much more concern and sympathy for women than we do men. psych studies show this time and time again.

    if you want to help disadvantaged men, do it on your own time. i think this will only make you a pariah in your career. they've probably already labeled you as a "problematic" employee for asking those questions.