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Rant/VentingCorporateLand: A Rat Race Survival Guide For New Rats (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev

TL; DR: Survival guide for working in a corporate environment, i.e. “CorporateLand”, where a lot of you will spend at least some of your time. As a guy who has worked for three Fortune 500 companies and two Fortune Global 100 companies, here's some advice about playing the corporate game. N.B.: This is going to be fairly long. If you don't like reading long posts, there are other posts to read. [EDIT1: I still suck at formatting. EDIT2: Added 'Rant' flair. EDIT3: Added the bit about System Admins, and not flipping guys for no reason.]

Body: A Guide to the Rat Race for New Rats.

Make friends with HR.

HR is the Elephants' Graveyard for people with No Fucking Talent. There is, inevitably, one person (and usually only one) who does not have their head completely up their ass. Buddy up with her (and it's always a 'her') and make sure she handles all your HR needs, because otherwise whatever you need done will get fucked up by girls and/or AA hires who are just there for the numbers. The last thing they want to do is actual work. They want to enjoy their 9-to-5 coffin, collect their paychecks and go home. Sure, there are talented women and minorities...but not in HR.

Make friends With IT.

[Editing to add /u/redpillbanana's excellent suggestion.] IT sees you when you're sleeping and knows when you're awake, and the Eye in the Sky Doesn't Lie (as we used to say back in my football days). They know what sites you visit, etc., etc. Thus you need to be a believer in the Separation of Work and State. My work laptop history (and I mean that thing that can't be erased by 'private' browsing, or whatever) has entirely mundane shit on it. Sites that are for work or work-related (research, travel, etc.) I visit other sites (personal business, news, TRP, etc.) on my other devices and never the twain shall meet. I don't use company wifi for personal devices, either. I keep two mobile phones: work and personal. The joke around work has always been that it's my "bat phone".1

Where I work, now, I have a good relationship with the CIO (or whatever his title is), but also his underlings. The CIO is big into getting feed back abt how his dept performs, and I always send him an email to the effect that his guys did a great job for me, which they usually do. If I have a problem with a guy, I handle it with the guy. It costs me nothing and buys me some goodwill. You might need a friend in IT someday. IT is never going to land a $20M contract with a new customer. They're like the CIA; you only hear about their failures.

Don't Flip a Guy For No Reason

You're going to be working with some people that you don't like. Maybe someone's just having a bad day, or maybe he's an asshole. Equanimity should be the rule for noobs. Don't let yourself get pushed around, but realize you will not always have the whip hand.

Once, a guy stiffed me on a referral fee. It would have been two grand, maybe a bit more. Less than $2500 for sure. And he screwed me on it. I reached out to him and he didn't respond. Not only did he never got another referral from me again, and I also drove a few hundred thousand dollars away from his firm. I hope it was worth it.

Sometimes, it pays to acknowledge the elephant in the room. I worked with another guy who was a salesman. The problem was, he couldn't sell. What he could do was blame other people for his failures. Anyway, I came out of my office one day, and there he was coming down the hallway towards me. "Great", I thought, "This asshole." So I said to him, "Joe, the thing I like about you, and it's the ONLY thing I like about you, is that it pisses you off MORE to see me coming than it does me to see you coming." Inexplicably, we got a long a lot better after that.

Hide in Plain Sight

Sort of like being the "Gray Man". Do your job, get paid, and enjoy your life from 5pm to 9am. Nobody is working in CorporateLand because it's so fucking cool and awesome, not even the folks at Google (ok, maybe Google, but not 99% of the rest of everyone else). We're there for the paycheck.

But Can You Bang The Hotties at Work?

No.

Don't Mistake Your "Work Friends" for your "Real Friends"

Sure, there are some cool people at work, and some of them will cross over into the "real friends" category, but not as many as you think. You're there to do your job, and get paid.

But really, Why Can't I Bang the Hotties at Work?

It's work not a singles bar. And there likely won't be a ton of hotties. You're not in University any more. There will be the occasional hot secretary or secret slut over in accounting. Do.Not.Bang. If you do bang, try to bang someone with more to lose than you do, so you don't find yourself on an ice floe.

Sure, maybe it will work out fine. Or maybe you will have to explain how a rising star such as you got tossed out of ABC Widgets in your next interview. I used to fuck a 23 y.o. admin over lunch a couple of times a week. Until her fiance figured out that she was getting some strange. They have three kids now. I don't think any of them are mine. Anyway, do as I say, not as I did. I'm smarter now, and you should be, too.

Secure the Perimeter

Whether it was business or personal, I tried to make sure that nobody came to my boss with anything that was a surprise. If anyone asks your boss a question about you, it's better for him to know the answer because he heard it from you first.

Don't Get Overdrawn at the Favor Bank

There will be times when you will need a friend. It's ok to do favors for people, take on a project or two, because someday...you will need a friend. I covered another person's region after they moved on, and kept everything afloat. Since I work for a corporation, they didn't pay me commensurate with the work I did, but I regarded it as sweat equity. A good reputation is a powerful shield.

Containment

Contain your enemies, as George Kennan advised in The Long Telegram. Do not escalate into a hot war if at all possible, while not suffering any loss of prestige.

At a former job, I had an issue with a female co-worker. The issue was that I didn't want to do her work for her, and she needed me to, because she wasn't very good at it. She also complained that she "had kids" and couldn't stay late and do it.

I value my free time. Also, my name is not Rumple-fucking-Stiltskin, and it's not my job to stay late, for no extra pay, to do someone else's work for her because she got promoted into a job she lacked the talent for. Now, if someone needs my help and asks for it, and has been an ally in the past, etc., I will probably do it on a one-off basis. It can often be useful to have a positive balance in the "Favor Bank".

She started screaming at me one day that I 'had' to do thus and so for her, and I told her to get stuffed (not the exact words, but that was the subtext). She freaked and went to her boss, who went to my boss. What a cunt. That was my boss' assessment, after I had given him my side of the story. And he was right.

So what did I do? Having explained shit to my boss (and I had a story to tell, how she tries to dump her work on me because she can't do it, and how I solved a bunch of shit because it's easy for me, and I'm willing to take one for the team once in a while, but I'm not simply going to be her bitch because she has a vagina and feels entitled.) My boss handled it with the other guy. Then he brought it up again two days later. I was able to quell it (I think she was still yapping; I had dummied up about it).

So what to do now? Two things: First, I went to HR. I had cultivated the Powers That Be in HR, so I had a built in Firewall. The best part was that the HMFIC in HR loved me and HATED the chick who was giving me shit. So that was that.

The second thing I did was start looking for a new job. They can't fuck with you when you have options. So I found a better job and make 50% more than I would if I had stayed put. So fuck her. I also let other work she tried to dump on me stack up and then gave it all back to her on my way out the door. Muhahahahahahahahaha!

Make Yourself Indispensable, and Then Disappear

I basically work from wherever I want to and don't have to go into an office anymore--it is Fucking HEAVEN! I do go in, from time to time, but only to renew connections and to see if they've hired any new talent, by which I mean 22 y.o. girls with tight 22 y.o. asses. (N.B. Don’t shit where you eat, of course.)

Remember the 'sweat equity' part? That helped. Go read "The Four Hour Work Week" by Tim Ferriss and "How to Relax Without Getting the Axe" by Stanley Bing. Bing has a whole section on doing what I do, pretty much.

How do I get away with it? I perform at a high level, I am always reachable, I have a unique set of skills and my employer understands that he pays me for PERFORMANCE not for attendance.

Have a Plan For When Shit Goes Bad

Always have two escape routes. Eventually, you are going to want to move up or move on. If I didn't like what I do for a living, I could walk away and still make six figures doing what I do on the side, and by leveraging my contacts. Someday, I will do that, anyway.

Most people in CorporateLand are not curing cancer. That's fine. AFAIAC, my job exists to fund my lifestyle. Nobody on their death bed says, "I wish I'd spent more time at the office." As the Christians say, be in the world, but not of the world. Or something like that.

A word about lifestyle: The only reason to work in a corporation is to make a shit-ton of money. If you are not, then go do something else. And whatever you do, don’t outspend your paycheck. Save Crowns and Pounds and Farthings. You will need a war chest someday.

Look, I got over. Sure, the economy sucked ass when I got out and I fought back and found a way to prosperity. Kids today are getting factored to a fare thee well. Think long and hard before taking the CEO’s shilling.

1 This is exactly what Tiger Woods should have had. If he'd had a second phone that (a) was identical to whatever phone his caddy/major domo/little helper guy had and (b) HAD A FUCKING PASSWORD ON IT, he wouldn't have wound up being chased down his driveway by his golf club-wielding wife. Dumb, dumb, dumb. When his wife found it, he could have said, "Oh, that's [name of sidekick]'s phone. I'll take that and return it to him, thanks." I think that he gets busted eventually, anyway, b/c that guy was fucking half the women in America, but who knows.

LESSON 1: Be Loyal…To Yourself. The days of walking into IBM or GM or GE at 21 and walking out at 65 with a fat pension and a gold watch are Way Long Gone. It's every man for himself these days, BUT....it need not be "Lord of the Flies".

Every article you see titled "Gen X and Gen Y Have No Work Ethic" should be titled "Gen X and Gen Y refuse to be Treated Like Commodities; Boomers OUTRAGED!"

Why the Boomers expect loyalty when they offer none is beyond me. The RP Man in CorporateLand should have loyalty to (a) his paycheck and (b) those of his colleagues who have proven themselves worthy. That's it. The assholes in the C-Suite would just as happily fire you if it would make their stock go up a nickel as look at you.

LESSON 2: Have Options. Learn a trade. Be able to do something so you aren’t dependent on a CorporateLand paycheck. I think the modern trend is going to be away toward entrepreneurship. One of the difficulties we face as a society is, "where will the jobs come from?" That is why I recommend that men have a trade. If you have a trade, then you won't go hungry. Sure, technology is disruptive (yes, I am looking at you, Uber) but nobody in China or India or on the internet is going to fix your plumbing.

LESSON 3: Avoid Debt. The LAST fucking thing I would recommend is piling on educational debt to the tune of $500k to get a BA and JD or whatever. It's a disaster. The generation behind me can't buy houses because they're getting ass-raped on tuition and debt service thereon. It's fucking INSANE. And the degrees people get, now. Gender Studies? I'd rather my daughter was a hooker; at least she'd be giving VALUE for her pay. I sit on our hiring committee and I ding everyone who has a shitstain degree. Women's Studies? Best case she's merely a lazy cunt. Worst case, she's a lazy cunt who sues the firm. Fuck that. Same thing with anything else that's fucked up.

Good luck, now go forth and SLAY!


[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 86 points87 points  (37 children)

Good advice.

  • Be loyal to yourself: this is good advice, not only for corporate survival, but for life in general.
  • Have Options: I definitely recommend moving towards the antifragile career.
  • Avoid Debt: always good advice. Also keep your expenses down and save like crazy. If you're selling your soul to the corporate machine, you want to get to a point where you have fuck you money. There are many levels of fuck you money ranging from "fuck you, I'm not working overtime because I don't need the money" to "fuck you, I have a few months of savings, I can find another job" to "fuck you, I never have to work again".

Oh, and make friends with the system administrators as well. They can read your email and see which websites you are browsing.

Gender Studies? I'd rather my daughter was a hooker; at least she'd be giving VALUE for her pay. I sit on our hiring committee and I ding everyone who has a shitstain degree. Women's Studies? Best case she's merely a lazy cunt. Worst case, she's a lazy cunt who sues the firm. Fuck that. Same thing with anything else that's fucked up.

Degrees like gender/women's studies are going to become anti-degrees in that people with these degrees will be considered less educated than if they didn't have a degree at all. People with these degrees are going to have to go through years of deprogramming in order to become useful contributors.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 27 points28 points  (8 children)

Also keep your expenses down and save like crazy.

Yep. That was me. I was broke for most of my early 20s and that experience was a great teacher. And I had a second bank account that I would refer to as the "GTH" fund. I would say that I called it "GTH" because it was in case I ever had to tell my boss to "GO TO HELL!"

Oh, and make friends with the system administrators as well. They can read your email and see which websites you are browsing.

This is an excellent point that I should have included! I didn't think about it because I am super-extra-careful about the separation of "work" and "state". All my personal business is on my personal devices, and I never use the company wifi for them. The work laptop is for work, only. Good catch.

IME, SAs have approximately ZERO interest in being the 'morals' police, but if HR comes looking, they will roll over on you. So don't do anything weird from your work computer, and you won't have a problem.

Once I accidentally busted a guy looking at some sort of weird cartoon porn on his PC--I had come up to a ground level entryway and his monitor was viewable from the side I approached from and I guess things get lonely on the overnight desk. In that gig I had some tertiary responsibility for some or other "corporate ethics" bullshit1, which would have including busting him.

So I gave him a 'Code Red', without specifically mentioning what I had seen. He understood exactly what I meant, agreed with the general point and neither one of us ever mentioned it. This guy had a wife, and had just adopted two kids to go with the two kids they already had, and he definitely did NOT have 'fuck you' money. On the plus side, I had his marker in the Favor Bank after that. That should probably be another rule: "Don't flip a guy for no reason."

1 Which I HATED. One guy used to rag me out about it until I said "Look do you want ME to have this gig, or do you want someone who actually WANTS it to have it?" after which he mostly STFU.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Making friends with the sysadmins has all kinds of benefits. You can cut through a lot of red tape if you're in good standing with them. Need that VPN set up in 5 minutes? No problem.

"Don't flip a guy for no reason."

This is a great rule. You never know when you're going to be facing this guy again. You might hold all the cards this time, but one day he may be sitting on your hiring committee, and believe me, he'll remember you.

I am super-extra-careful about the separation of "work" and "state". All my personal business is on my personal devices, and I never use the company wifi for them. The work laptop is for work, only.

Another good rule. Keeping your work and your personal life separated may not seem important now, but when the shit hits the fan, you'll be glad you did.

[–]alanthemanofchicago 4 points5 points  (1 child)

IME, SAs have approximately ZERO interest in being the 'morals' police, but if HR comes looking, they will roll over on you. So don't do anything weird from your work computer, and you won't have a problem.

Bingo. I'm a sysadmin (the only one for a midsize office) - I don't like selling people out, I don't like ratting on people, but if the big boss needs something, I'll deliver. If you've been good to me, and the issue is a one-time thing (one porn e-mail in your work box, etc) I'll pass it up, but otherwise, nope. Unless you're my brother (not in the womanly "OMG she's totally my sister!" but in the "we spent 17 years growing up together" way) I'm covering me before I cover you. Sorry mate, that's the way it is.

Edit: If you work in a small office, befriend the IT guy. Being in my position (only IT guy, bosses are shit with tech) makes me the judge and jury (and occasionally executioner) - if you look out for me, I won't look out for you (if you get it)

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you work in a small office, befriend the IT guy. Being in my position (only IT guy, bosses are shit with tech) makes me the judge and jury (and occasionally executioner) - if you look out for me, I won't look out for you (if you get it)

Yep. You can never have too many friends.

As an aside, unrelated to IT, you never know when someone might be able to help you in the future. My very first gig starting out was working for a company that had a trucking division. I would handle tickets and such for the guys in the shop (the company's view was "It's your ticket") and maybe I'd charge them a 'nuisance' fee, but it was always a way better deal for them than if they took it to a guy who had office rent and a secretary to pay.

One day another office guy (as opposed to a 'shop' guy) popped into my office and told me that there was a flat tire on my car. I said 'thanks, I'll have a look at it later'. An hour later I went outside and the shop guys had my car up on a jack and wouldn't let me change my own tire, b/c, hey, that was something they could do for me. Was it a big deal? Not really, but I also didn't have to change a tire on a hot summer day. I used to trade up with the staff mechanic, the IT guy, etc., if one of us needed help in something that was within the expertise another one of us had, etc.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]TRPhd 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    Definitely stop. No reddit at all.

    News sites are fine, even sports sites should be avoided though.

    [–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    The fact that he deleted his comment reminds me of this:

    http://bash.org/?258908

    • <Ben174> : If they only realized 90% of the overtime they pay me is only cause i like staying here playing with Kazaa when the bandwidth picks up after hours.
    • <ChrisLMB> : If any of my employees did that they'd be fired instantly.
    • <Ben174> : Where u work?
    • <ChrisLMB> : I'm the CTO at LowerMyBills.com
    • *** Ben174 ([email protected]) Quit (Leaving)

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Reminds me a bit about having "Fuck You" money, or something to that tune. Allows you to have some abundance mentality, giving you the ability to walk away

    [–]1Jaereth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    IME, SAs have approximately ZERO interest in being the 'morals' police, but if HR comes looking, they will roll over on you. So don't do anything weird from your work computer, and you won't have a problem.

    This is exactly correct. I never want to sell anyone out but unfortunately, I do get asked to from time to time.

    [–]BradPill 18 points19 points  (0 children)

    In general, make friends (or at least be friendly) with non-office staff as well. People in catering, security. Not only can they help you out when you really need a favor, they are (your) eyes and ears on the ground. Gossip, the affairs, the real reason some guy had to leave.

    Also, no need to be some haughty asshole (or: BITCH - yes ladies, that is you!) to 'blue collars' just because you landed some junior job - you're lucky - but nothing special.

    Always realize that anyone is replaceable - including you. Just make sure others are more replaceable than you.

    [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (5 children)

    Good point on 'fuck you money'

    'Fuck you money' IS NOT necessarily millions of dollars where you can buy whatever you want and be a rich asshole (though it can be)

    'Fuck you money' is basically financial freedom. It is when you are in the situation where you can tell your employer, and basically anyone else, 'fuck you' and live independently for an extended period of time. Income and savings is a factor here, but expenses are just as important. That VP paying for 3 kids through college, 2 new cars every few years, nice vacations, and a house in the upper class neighborhood? Not a bad life, still someones bitch and still ball and chained to his job.

    Meanwhile, I have a family member who is a former vet, started his own carpentry company in a small town in a coastal state, owns his house in full on a lake (small house) with older but still usable boat and motorcycle, and spends his weeks riding along the country side, fishing, poker with friends, etc. he isn't rich, but owes no one anything

    Met both kinds of people numerous times in my life. Not demonizing the corporate Titan by any means, but you can decide for yourself who is truly happier

    [–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    That VP paying for 3 kids through college, 2 new cars every few years, nice vacations, and a house in the upper class neighborhood? Not a bad life, still someones bitch and still ball and chained to his job.

    Good point.

    The Bonfire of the Vanities is about a stockbroker who makes a million per year but lives paycheck-to-paycheck (hint: he has a high-maintenance wife AND girlfriend) - then he is let go from his position.

    Money can't always buy freedom, but when it can, it's money well-spent.

    [–]Kalidane 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    For a very long time I thought my 'fuck you' amount had many digits. After doing a lot of reading and thinking this year, I've concluded that being debt free and having a small amount of cash is sufficient. I'm something like 7500 from freedom which is pretty soon, unless I get sick of this shit and walk early. I'd still survive.

    Having debt results in you doing things you don't want to do. This is obviously a bad thing and should be resolved as aggressively as possible.

    [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Financial freedom is having your assets be greater than the sum of your expenses over a certain period of time. It's truly simple. Financial freedom = spend less, make more, or both. Know how long you are free based on the equation

    [–]Kalidane 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    That really is the best way to look at it.

    One huge consequence of choosing the 'spend less' approach, is stress. Knowing you need to earn $40k-$50k to be golden is just so chill compared to $150k. Vastly more freedom of choice too, in many ways.

    [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, there are definitely diminishing returns on both axes. For most people a good goal is cut my expenses some and increase my income some in the same time frame. Depends on how lean you're living and how much upward mobility you have in the short term, etc.

    [–]netherlanddwarf 6 points7 points  (7 children)

    I'm a little freaked out, I was terminated about a year ago and I'm nervous if HR or my manager was analyzing my productivity time (I freelance now and am way happier). I didn't look at anything NSFW, but a lot of business news sites & what not to pass the time. I left it open in my browser because I'm lazy with closing that kind of stuff. Who knows. They didn't bring it up why they terminated me that day... but I believe it was because my manager was pregnant and losing her mind. That's a TRP post for another day.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 12 points13 points  (3 children)

    If they terminated you for looking at business news sites, then they did you a favor, b/c they suck and you don't want to work there.

    [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    In my work experience you rarely get fired for looking at websites (porn, similar stuff the exception) but if a company is looking for a reason to fire you then they will hold browsing history against you.

    The decision is usually made regardless of reading ESPN every day. But once the decision is made they will bring that up on you

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Completely true. It's HR you have to watch for, not IT so much, but IT will follow orders, generally, b/c they have to.

    Different companies behave differently, of course. At one company we fired a guy for downloading porn. He even had a dialer hooked up to his work computer (that tells you how long a go it was). The dewd was total horndog and couldn't control it.

    At the same firm we fired a contractor for propositioning a woman over email (STOO-PID!) and she got twisted up over it and complained to HR. Don't put that shit in email and you have deniability, at least.

    All I'm saying is, be vigilant.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    If it's anything like the company i used to work for they monitor total internet time. So leaving the window open screwed you.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I can only imagine that place sucked to work at in multiple other ways, also. That's usually how that goes.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Chances are they'd been wanting to get rid of you for quite a while and just needed a "smoking gun", aka a convenient reason to fire you.

    Either that or they were just crazy.

    [–]MyReddit4 4 points5 points  (12 children)

    How much money would you recommend saving in the FU Fund for several months - year?

    What's a safe target goal?

    [–]TRPhd 13 points14 points  (5 children)

    First, you save $1000, before paying off any debt. (This is so that you won't need a credit card to pay for emergencies.)

    Next, you pay off all of your debts, starting with the highest interest first, or alternatively, with the one you can pay off the soonest. You pay the minimums on all but the "target" that you want to pay off. As you pay each off, then you move to the next.

    When all of the debts (including car & student loans, but not including house) are paid off, you are 66% of the way to F-U money.

    Like OP said, there are 3 levels of F-U: 1) I have the resources to quit today, 2) I have the resources to take a sabbatical for a year to figure things out, 3) I have the resources to retire.

    Quit today: three months expenses, minimum. Sabbatical: fifteen months expenses, minimum (one year plus three months). Retire: passive income (dividends, royalties, etc.) equal to 20x your annual salary, minimum. For the average American that's approximately $1M, but that doesn't go as far as you think...

    That's the plan and those are minimums; go forth and good luck.

    [–]MyReddit4 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    This is good insight. I've always been frugal and saved a lot, even though I don't make much.

    I live in a 3rd world country now, and refuse to compromise lifestyle, since I save 75% of my salary anyway and my only expense is food/entertainment.

    I day trade and swing trade in a US account and have enough to live for 10 years without working (in 3rd world country.) Problem is, I have student loan debt that is fairly large.

    I could write the check and pay the whole thing off, but most of my money would be gone. If Bernie wins and they change some laws, I'd hate to have paid it while others get a free ride. My plan was to stock trade the difference and pay off 10k/year for 5 years. Sounds like I have the FU part down, but the debt needs to be eliminated.

    By the time I'm 30, I want to be debt free and have minimum 6 figures in US investments, and a healthy amount in an international account (non USD) Totally attainable, I just didn't realize just how hard I'd need to focus on the interest on that fucking loan.

    [–]TRPhd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    The nice thing is that inflation works in your favor on debt (i.e., the money you are paying back is worth about 3% less than the money you borrowed, compounded, yearly). Of course if your debt is compounding at 8%, that means your debt is still increasing 5% yearly in constant dollars. (I know that's an oversimplification, just go with it.) If you can deduct the interest, that can be useful in limited tax situations, but it's not very often possible to do so.

    (People who waste money to get deductions are assholes; it's like buying shit you don't need with coupons and thinking you saved money -- you didn't need it, dummy, so you lost money.)

    So, if you can get more money with your money (say 10% returns) than you are paying in interest (say, 8% compounding), then keep your money working. That's why I don't encourage people to pay off their houses early -- the interest rates are usually pretty low. Even though car interest rates are also low, they have a limited useful life and should be paid off as soon as possible regardless of the interest rate.

    That's my input, there are lots of experts who can tell you more, but those are the basics.

    [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    it may be super basic but possibly overlooked, make sure you have refinanced that student loan to the lowest interest rate possible

    [–]MyReddit4 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Epic idea. That could be great for me. Thank you.

    In regards to insurance, medical, and car LOL I live in a 3rd world country. The cost is non-existent and my only expenses are food, student loan, and entertainment. I'm trying to make the most of this situation to knock out the debt before I'm 30.

    [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    its an awesome idea. How better to reduce expenses than to broaden your scope of thought to "where in the entire world can I pay the least and still have an enjoyable life?"

    IMO, the dream is NYC/Silicon Valley salary telecommute job while living in a third world country (well, developing. Far enough along to have reliable enough internet to do work). Boom, wealth.

    [–]AUAUA 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    The richest man in Babylon says to save the first ten percent that hits your hand

    [–]Osoto_Gari 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Check out "Early Retirement Extreme". If you're savvy you can find it as a PDF

    Crux of it is to reduce your expenses as much as you can (and then reduce them more), save hard. Because your living expenses are so low it doesn't take long for your savings / investments to fund your frugal lifestyle.

    [–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Depends on your living expenses, which, unless you have a huge FU fund already, you should be working to reduce. Track your expenses for 6 months with Quicken or Mint and you'll have your answer, or you can get a rough estimate by adding up all your major expenses and adding room for food/entertainment/misc.

    [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    FU Fund = (Income w/out Job minus Expenses) x number of months you want to not need a new job.

    Thus, spend less or make more and put the excess in the fund until you hit your goal. Build in safety money for if you get unexpected non-regular expenses (car repair needed, medical issue, etc.). You can reduce the safety money pad when you've insured more of your risk (good insurance with low deductibles = you can reduce safety cash reserved for medical expenses). Evaluate what your deductibles are for auto and medical insurance and make sure you could cover those for a while if you needed to. Be honest about how good your insurance really is and whether common medical issues will actually be covered as much as you think they will be.

    [–]netherlanddwarf 32 points33 points  (2 children)

    "Why the Boomers expect loyalty when they offer none is beyond me." Amen.

    [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 21 points22 points  (1 child)

    I refer to them as "The Locust Generation". Far too many of them think that the raison d'être of the Republic was to produce...them.

    [–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (9 children)

    Having sued corporations in telecommunications industry. I can tell you that I firmly believe most of the giants out there are full of incompetents claiming fat checks for third-party contractors and subcontractors doing all the work.

    It's why i like working with and in the Startup community. Lots of raw talent, lots of hard workers, and sadly lots of lazy self-entitled fucks that you have to avoid.

    I like working with illegal Mexicans because they are all hungry to succeed and won't whine and bitch about only making $28k a year while the construction company grows with forty percent of the net profits covering payroll incentives.

    When you rely on rich people to create jobs, don't be surprised when you get fucked.

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)

    [removed]

      [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

      Having sued corporations in telecommunications industry. I can tell you that I firmly believe most of the giants out there are full of incompetents claiming fat checks for third-party contractors and subcontractors doing all the work.

      IIRC, then general rule of thumb in M&A is that corporations are usually ~20% overstaffed, +/-.

      The bigger the corporation, almost assuredly the more fucked up it is. Lots of layers, lots of fiefdoms. One place I worked at would brag about how "flat" it was (i.e. not tons of management levels.) I don't think you could design a place less flat than that place was, outside of the government. /shrug

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]slcjosh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Been there. It wasn't cash that was the problem, it was unqualified workers hired in a rush to cover volume. I got the fuck out quick. I was in a pretty advanced roll and they hired a lot of people to do my job alongside me, expecting me to bring them up to speed, train, coach, and do a full work load of my own on top for no extra pay. Found a new gig within 30 days, put in my 2 weeks notice, went on vacation (paid) for 10 days (I had shit loads built up, they would either have to pay out or let me take) and finished my last 2 days playing games on my phone and snagging all the cute girls numbers I wanted to remain in contact with, since I was leaving.

        It's crucial to have options. Just like with women, if you don't, you get hung out to dry.

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

        Very few people who did something innovative are still at the company they created once it is blue chip big. Tech is kind of its own monster, but in every other industry, you have entrepreneurs that build a business to the 100M-500M revenue level. Then its sold. A private equity firm will then bring in suits and do one of two things: restructure and max the fuck out of EBITDA (earned income before intrest, taxes, depreciation...) so they can flip it to another private equity firm or they'll inject tons of capital for growth and then take it public once its revenue is ~1B.

        At which point, those suits are replaced by new suits. These are people who are ONLY exceptional at being a square, at being risk averse, at being politically connected, at being mundane, at being mediocre at every talent required for growth. At this point, you have a golden egg laying goose. It's all about protecting the goose.

        Maybe the guy you were responding to was making a political statement though. In which case, he's simply wrong. Each of those phrases require capital investment. Silicon Valley is the most capitalist place on earth and startups are powered by nothing more than greed. I took him to mean something else, more akin to "the larger a corporation becomes, the more it resembles government." i.e. miles of bureaucracy, endless nepotism, and ultimately, you're spending someone else's money, so who gives a fuck. All of the rational self-interest is removed. Innovation is replaced with legions of attorneys and lobbyists. It's now a task of maintaining market position and the easiest way is to lobby for MORE regulation in your sector, increase barriers to entry (patent trolling, regulation, etc).

        [–]rpscrote 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        "the larger a corporation becomes, the more it resembles government."

        And of course this is almost entirely because the government has so many hoops you have to jump through that there is no other way. Gotta keep those "evil" corporations honest, after all

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Correct. Government creates a problem, then by threat of violence takes from you to provide the solution.

        [–]Red-45 9 points10 points  (23 children)

        Great post, just a couple of questions. You say you recommend having a trade, are you speaking of taking four years to work through an apprenticeship as a plumber or an electrician? Also, if I did so instead of taking on the debt for a degree, how would I go about getting a corporate job without a degree? Isn't that a must? I ask because I have just finished high school and am working on a plan of action. Everyone is suggesting I start as an apprentice in a trade, but I'm more of a business man and a salesperson, I don't know if I could be happy doing that for four or more years, you know?

        [–]Glennus626 14 points15 points  (10 children)

        A business management degree is pretty middle-of-the-road and easy to obtain on the cheap. Never count out going to community college to knock out your core classes like english and math. Once you're in community college, DO NOT fuck around. Show up, take notes, and work hard.

        Once you get your first 12 credit hours out of the way, apply for or accept your invitation to the Phi Theta Kappa (or equivalent) community college honor society. When you're a member of that, keep your GPA up (a 3.8 is so easy in community college), and do your best to become an officer (preferably vp of scholarships) in PTK. Show up to their lame events, socialize with other working class kids who work hard for what they have in life.

        Pay attention to the private or state school's requirements: you don't need to get an associates from the community college, since it's like 3 or 4 more classes that won't transfer over to a university anyway. Start applying to nice universities, some of which will have a "bridge program" with your community college. Sort of their way of saying "aww, we want to help you poor kids get a leg up on life".

        You will be shocked and awed by a) the amount of the financial package the universities will offer you to come be a student and b) the amount PTK will give you in scholarships after showing up to all of their lame-o events...

        I paid something like 50 bux a credit hour at the community college, maintained a 3.8 gpa no sweat, joined PTK and ended up getting a 10k a year from a very nice university, 8k a year from PTK and several more k a year from other various scholarships and grants. I financed something like 17k to get a bachelor's degree from a really nice, private university in the midwest. Meanwhile, I know some schmucks who ended up financing 70k or more to get the "full college dorm experience" and end up with a poli sci degree from some shit state university and are making less than 30k a year...

        The amount of quality people you open yourself up to by getting a degree makes it well worth the investment, ESPECIALLY if you are not hung up on going away to school or living in a dorm. Be smart, and it's easily affordable and useful.

        [–]1Jaereth 3 points4 points  (7 children)

        and end up with a poli sci degree from some shit state university and are making less than 30k a year...

        Uh oh, one of my best friends is getting a political science degree right now. Is it really that bleak? He's a smart guy, probably at the top of that crowd, but still, 30k?

        [–]Glennus626 5 points6 points  (2 children)

        If he's getting it because he has some realistic plans to teach or consult or work as an aid to a campaign or work in government, more power to him. He may do very well. If he's getting one because he just "likes the classes" and had no idea what major he should go with because he doesn't know what he wants to do with his life? eh... not so much.

        [–]1Jaereth 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        He's very passionate about politics. He actually wants to work in the field.

        [–]TRPhd 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        Passionate about politics is a disqualifier for working in that field; it's renown for burn-out.

        As I was told about journalism, the best way to get a journalism job is to be an expert in something else, i.e., be an engineer first, and then an engineering journalist, and then a journalist. Politics is the same, as far as I can tell.

        [–]rurpe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        If he does not have significant connections (daddy owns a business, old world money, etc) he will likely struggle to land a high paying job with a political science degree.

        [–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yes, it is really that bleak. Political science is pretty much one of the shittiest degrees. Look at real high level politicians, they all have 2 things: Shitloads of connections and a law degree. The only worse degrees are the kind of degrees that are so bad they are actually negative value instead of no value (e.g. Gender Studies).

        The other people who actually do political shit are experts on real things with real experience. Military policy think tanks are going to prefer someone with high level military experience every single time over some asshole with an inflated sense of self and a poli sci degree.

        The problem with poli sci is it teaches no skills. At best, it teaches some soft skills which are better taught by doing sales.

        People only care what you can do for them, and soft skills are essentially the ability to show/convince others you can do things for them. You still have to be able to do the things. And what can someone do with a poli sci degree that they could not have done before? Pretty much nothing.

        [–]rpscrote 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Pay attention to the private or state school's requirements: you don't need to get an associates from the community college, since it's like 3 or 4 more classes that won't transfer over to a university anyway.

        Careful here. This is 100% dependent on the community college and the target state colleges. I've seen transferring classes over work great.

        At the same time, in another situation, a buddy of mine wanted to go to a school that didn't accept some of the community college credits, but it DOES accept an Associate's as fulfilling a specific list of classes (which included the equivalent classes he would have had to take if he just transferred the credits over). He ended up being much better off getting the AA than transferring the credits.

        Don't rely on assumptions here. Run the numbers and see which path is optimal for each community college - state college pairing.

        [–]Glennus626 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        well, naturally talk with your counsilor before just taking a random redditor's advice, especially if there's a specific university you want to apply to that has a bridge program. You may find out it's pointless to take statistics in community college, if you just have to retake it at the university, or like you said, if they accept an AA and it makes dollars and cents sense.

        [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

        You have to figure out what's best for you. I may have garbled up the 'trade' bit, b/c I have a buddy who basically flips houses (or he did, back in the day). His parents were professors and so he was FORCED to go to University (where I met him), but meanwhile he was learning how to do the type of stuff you do to flip houses (carpentry, plumbing, electrical, etc.)

        After you get your first gig, nobody really gives a shit what your degree is in. For sales you may or may not need a degree, but it also depends on where you start, etc.

        [–]coffee_and_lumber 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        After you get your first gig, nobody really gives a shit what your degree is in. For sales you may or may not need a degree, but it also depends on where you start, etc.

        I never got a degree at all, I just built a stellar portfolio of work and nobody has ever cared about my formal education. Others' mileage may vary however.

        [–]TRPhd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Places that scan resumes automatically note whether or not there is a degree. When you have what I call "stranger" or "cold" interviews, they also use it as a point of conversation.

        If your network located your job for you (Dad knows Fred), then it doesn't matter as much.

        My field is defined by obtaining education, of course, so YMMV.

        [–]slcjosh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Go into sales. Business to business, FUCK retail as a career. Dealing with the public will get you paycheck to paycheck. College is a blast but it's financially irresponsible unless you can avoid debt.

        A trade allows you to find a path that gives you solid and payed work out the gate.

        [–][deleted]  (7 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          This is another great idea. I think it's going to be the model for the future. I do some side stuff involving private placements, etc., and I used to worry about what if I stopped coming up with ideas? Then I realized I always seem to be able to, so I stopped worrying about it.

          [–]BradPill 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          I read/heard (20 (?) years ago....) a story people in Hollywood complaining they couldn't find reliable handy-people. Obviously money isn't their problem: it's finding a trust-worthy, discrete (!) and 'clean' plumber on Saturday-night to fix their faucet (which they could have done themselves with a Leatherman).

          It made me wonder who maintains those mansions... It could be good money, you're independent and you meet interesting people - but sure, you have to forego a private life, the first years, and provide impeccable service (which seems doable).

          [–]Red-45 2 points3 points  (4 children)

          That is what I'm doing now, I just have no idea what my buisiness could do. It seems like no matter what market you run to these days there is always an over saturation. I was looking into graphic design for a while but quickly found that there a million college kids who will do the same design jobs for literally less than minimum wage.

          [–]coffee_and_lumber 5 points6 points  (2 children)

          The lower level of design is crazy full of heavy competition. Everyone thinks they can be a designer just because they can make pretty pictures. They're wrong and they are likely going to end up on Guru or some site like that competing with Indians to make logos for $50 instead of making that amount per hour...and hell, 50 is a discount rate.

          [–]ShounenEgo 2 points3 points  (1 child)

          Same goes with web development and Wordpress where I live. Everyone who can install a theme and change a thing or 2 considers himself a web developer.

          [–]TRPhd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          If you are passionate about it, that will shine. It will take time to build a brand and loyalty, but if you are sincere, it will be apparent. You don't do a good job for this customer, but for all the other customers that this obnoxious whiner is going to send your way when you make him happy.

          [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

          I also let other work she tried to dump on me stack up and then gave it all back to her on my way out the door. Muhahahahahahahahaha!

          I know we're supposed to maintain frame and let go of the idea of revenge...but this is seriously hilarous!

          [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

          That bridge was in cinders already. I decided I wanted to see the cinders dance. The best part was, she was about to go on vacation a few days later. She fucking had it coming, and I do NOT regret it at all.

          [–]saibot83 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Always nuke an already burnt bridge. At least if they've wronged you.

          [–]RPcoyote 22 points23 points  (14 children)

          Also:

          1. if you have a desk keep it clean and tidy and organized. Not like no one works there but nice and cleaned up. I forgot where I read this: "imagine your desk is your body when you first meet a beautiful woman". Basically don't pile up shit and paperwork on it.

          2. Never ever eat lunch at your desk. Go out, chat with people, fucking go to Barnes and noble and eat while reading a book.

          3. Again if you have a desk and a family don't start decorating it with your kids photos or SO or shit like that. No one cares. You should keep shit like that for yourself not others too see. Maybe put a photo of you killing a lion or battling a shark.

          4. Never stop exploring how to get the fuck out of corporate land.

          [–]bluedrygrass 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          Maybe put a photo of you killing a lion or battling a shark.

          Nowadays it would get you fired faster than wanking in the centre of the room.

          I've just read a serious article about "animal behaviourists" calling people "unhuman" for placing cucumbers on the floor to scare their cats.

          [–]RPcoyote 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Ha makes me smile, and reminisce when I started my career my boss's boss had a sports illustrated gal on his desktop wallpaper plus we'd get a Penthouse subscription sent at the office. And no, I am not older than 40...

          [–]TRPhd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Picture of you sky-diving or scuba-diving, then.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Amazing the difference between TRP and BP with #4. Things like marriage, focusing on working extra hard in the office, buying frivolous items in an attempt to display your wealth are all ways to sink yourself further into the corporate trap.

          Focus on yourself, your skills, and independence are all ways for you to be able to tell corporate world to fuck off one day

          [–]RPcoyote 0 points1 point  (9 children)

          And that's not true as far as no one on their deathbed etc. the former investment banker Andre Meyer, head of boutique shop Lazard was a notorious hard worker who showed up for work before 6 am daily and before he died (old age) he reportedly said "I wish I could go back to work".

          [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 14 points15 points  (6 children)

          "I wish I could go back to work".

          I might say that, too, if my other option is "Death". But in terms of how we spend our time on Earth, it's pretty rare for someone to wish they'd worked more.

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

            Yep. My hobbies are collecting (and drinking!) craft wines, and playing music. Unhappily, the world has enough drunks and enough rock stars and enough drunk rock stars. So I've settled on working as little as possible for as much money as possible, so I can have as much free time as possible.

            I wish I was smarter, but I'm happy to have been able to do as much as I have with what I've had to work with.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Whoever said that never suffered cognitive burnout.

            [–]TRPhd 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Yes, and no. There are unpleasant aspects to every job, even a job you love.

            [–]Clackaroo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Ashkenazim spent a long time as an endogamous merchant caste. It gave them a high IQ and a strong tendency to be particularly hard-driving. Hence Andre Meyer's borderline-pathological obsession with his work.

            [–]interestedplayer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            yeah well no wonder, lazard is the worst sweatshop

            [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (4 children)

            Fucking great post. Bravo. Gems, gems gems. A couple thoughts:

            Don't Flip a Guy For No Reason

            I gave a talk to graduating seniors from my school, and I likened this point to the bachelor. You know the well-meaning chick every season who tattles on the crazy bitch, saying "she's not here for the right reasons?" She gets fucking tossed. It's not a good look, and you look defensive and petty.

            You will too. Follow the strategies in the OP.

            The second thing I did was start looking for a new job. They can't fuck with you when you have options.

            Two things:

            ALWAYS be interviewing. I have a buddy who finds out what he's worth once/quarter, and is relaxed all the time. If it ever gets to that point, just let them know what the offer is and see what happens.

            Once/year, ask yourself what you would have to do to break away and start consulting. For the vast majority, it won't make sense, which is fine. But ask yourself if you have 1-2 clients in the bag to start (hint: start with your own company). You don't ever have to go through with it, but most people never give it serious consideration. You can make 50% more working 50% less.

            be in the world, but not of the world.

            More RP'ers need to hear this. I'm Christian, and most don't follow this either. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's.

            I sit on our hiring committee and I ding everyone who has a shitstain degree. Women's Studies? Best case she's merely a lazy cunt. Worst case, she's a lazy cunt who sues the firm. Fuck that.

            I was putting on our 5th-year reunion for my school. The alumni person and I sat down, and she outlined the "top targets" for donations at our age (27).

            Guess what? They all had business degrees.

            Guess what? None of them fucking cared about the school, because they were in Frats that the school wanted nothing to do with, because all it cared about was Taking Back The Night and Women's and Gender Studies.

            Guess what? Calling those people was a fucking waste, because they had just gotten their first real job after the Peace Corps or working for Starbucks. At 27.

            I told it to her face, because she needed to hear how fucking retarded the school was, and how the real world worked.

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

            Guess what? None of them fucking cared about the school, because they were in Frats that the school wanted nothing to do with, because all it cared about was Taking Back The Night and Women's and Gender Studies.

            Big time. My undegrad uni and law school can suck my dick; my grad school, even though they were flaming libs, treated me like a future contributor and never hosed me for being right-of-center. So when I am in the mood to support anything uni-related it's my undergrad fraternity first, and my grad school second. Everyone else can fuck off.

            Also, I do sometimes give to a charity run by a friend of my dad's that helps guys get back on their feet. The difference, he's not some commie who wants to tax me death and guys in his program actually have to Walk The Talk. It's good to give back when you get ahead in life, but you don't have to be stupid about it.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            I give to charities all the time - it's just that the news is out that colleges are a business. Can't remember the last time that I donated to a business.

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            That is a perfectly rational position to hold. As I point out to my law school (one of my classmates who was/is a friend is in the administration now, so guess who I get the solicitations from), all the time I was there, they were jacking tuition at 3x the rate of inflation and telling me what a rat bastard I was b/c I wanted to make money instead of defending the little sisters of the poor undocumented immigrant abortion providers pro bono and living at the poverty level.

            When I buy a car, the dealer doesn't come back to me two years later with his hand out for a 'donation'.

            [–]arrayay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            When I buy a car, the dealer doesn't come back to me two years later with his hand out for a 'donation'.

            He does actually, he's just clever enough to call it a 'trade-in'.

            [–]venicerocco 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            Read "The Gervais Principle"

            [–]yummyluckycharms 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            Don't Get Overdrawn at the Favor Bank

            I rarely find that sweat equity is paid back. The minute a person leaves the unit, and definitely if a person transfers to another office, all favours are cancelled. As the old saying goes - out of sight - out of mind.

            The idea of reciprocity that is represented by sweat equity is very 1950'ish. It used to be that people would return favours as there was the expectation that both of you would be in the industry / company for a long time. After the jobless recoveries of the 1990s, dot.com, and the 2008 great recession, where low job stability is the norm - not the exception - people really dont care unless you are in a position to burn them.

            LESSON 1: Be Loyal…To Yourself.

            Agree 100%. Its critical that people realize that they are mercenaries - they do a task for money. Thats it. Goes with what I was saying above regarding the decline in the value of reciprocity - the idea that you will be staying with same company for more than 5 years is low. In fact, HR often looks at people that do that quite negatively.

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            I rarely find that sweat equity is paid back. The minute a person leaves the unit, and definitely if a person transfers to another office, all favours are cancelled. As the old saying goes - out of sight - out of mind.

            Often true. While in one case I was not paid commensurately with the work I did, they did bump my bonus an extra $10K that year, and since that new number becomes the base for bonuses moving forward, it was the gift that kept on giving.

            Also, I've been with the same company now for 9ish years. I've had the same boss and the same CEO and basically the same management team for that time. They operate on what is known as the "Michaels Model"1 which was Find Talent. Pay Above Market. Make Lots of Money. I can't do what I do for someone else for more money (I could make more, doing different work, with less freedom. No thanks.)

            If where I worked sucked and didn't reward people (specifically me) appropriately, I'd go find a place that did. They do exist, but are pretty few and far between.

            1 Named after the CEO of the company that owned the company I work for now, 8-10 years ago.

            [–]Mithra9009 5 points6 points  (2 children)

            Why the Boomers expect loyalty when they offer none is beyond me.

            I was of the opinion that they actually don't. They just say that for plausible deniablitiy. It gives them the excuse they need to bring in a fresh batch of cheap, indian H1B workers who'd be happy to work for peanuts. Eventually, those indians will clock on to how badly they're being fucked but that's okay, you can just bring in another fresh batch. That's my general idea of the situation, especially with regards to the so-called "STEM shortage".

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            I was of the opinion that they actually don't. They just say that for plausible deniability.

            Some of them are in fact realists, most are not. On the minus side, they have really fucked everything up. On the plus side, I'm going to get to watch them all die.

            [–]Sdom1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            Boomers aren't all psychopaths. The problem is that psychopathic Boomers are in charge, and have been since the early 90s. Again, you see this with the decline of civilizations. I think it's a part of the life cycle - there are enough unrestrained psychopaths in positions of power that they act like sand in the gears of a society. They fuck everything up for their personal gain. Short term thinking prevails, and fucks up the whole thing.

            You see that in the third world now - you just can't get anything of substance done because everybody in power just steals everything that's not nailed down. You also see it in the decline of civilizations. Read about the latter days of Rome and the crazy shit their elite class engaged in, things which would have led to their horrible and painful deaths in Rome's early days and prime. Read about any Communist country, and the shit that goes on there. Same thing.

            Example, off the top of my head - The backbone of Rome were its small, independent farmers who worked their own land and managed it in a sustainable way. Then, the elite class brought in massive amounts of slave labor and created huge plantation farms called latifundia. The latifundia squeezed out the small, independent farmers, driving them into the urban centers where they became the famous Roman Mob, who had to be bought off with free food and entertainment, lest they burn the city. Any of this sounding familiar?

            Also, the latifundia destroyed their topsoil in the name of increased production. They actually ruined a lot of southern Italy's farmland and it has never fully recovered. Again, eerily similar to things happening in our modern times.

            [–]HeinousFu_kery 5 points6 points  (5 children)

            Three comments:

            Favors:

            Benjamin Franklin observed that if you ask someone in a higher position for a favor then repay it, they will be more likely to establish a civil, ongoing working relationship than the other way around. YMMV of course.

            Find TPWKWGO ("The Person Who Knows What's Going On"):

            Most set-function offices (eg. HR as given here but it could be payroll, logistics etc.) will have one person - often only one - who really knows what's going on. They'll know what the accounting rules are, what the schedule is, who to talk to really get things fixed. Find them and keep them. They're gold.

            Burn Phones:

            Jesus H Fucking Christ on A Hockey Stick people...it's not that hard. You can get a no-contract, pay-as-you-go phone for less than $100, sometimes less than $20. Some employers will get twitchy about this, usually because of security issues, but overall you're spending more on condoms - show some common sense.

            [–]Sdom1 5 points6 points  (2 children)

            Benjamin Franklin observed that if you ask someone in a higher position for a favor then repay it, they will be more likely to establish a civil, ongoing working relationship than the other way around. YMMV of course.

            Franklin was also dealing with Bostin Brahmins, a special breed of people. They weren't psychopaths, far from it. If you're dealing with a malignant narcissist or psychopath, that strategy will not work as they have zero capacity for loyalty.

            [–]HeinousFu_kery 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            You are absolutely correct in that, though if you find yourself dealing with such people a lot you may want to think about either who you are or what the heck you're doing there.

            [–]Sdom1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            A lot of people in power are malignant narcissists. The Brahmins had their faults, but were something of an exception.

            [–]slcjosh 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            It's not hard to just stay off the Wi-Fi either.

            [–]HeinousFu_kery 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            WiFi, definitely - if you're going to watch midget tentacle porn, do it on your own platform/data.

            However, I've seen situations where the employee is either issued a phone or is required to have one accessible by the employer and the non-work stuff they do on it gets them in serious trouble. Also a "second line" on a given phone might not solve the problem - a separate device is better.

            [–]Arbitrage84 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            Have a flirtatious coworker that you aren't into? NEVER TALK TO HER ALONE. EVER.

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            God damn this is a beautiful post. At first glance I thought it was another "how to climb the ladder and do nothing else" type post and almost started a counter, but it's TRP through and through

            ESPECIALLY the second half. There is nothing masculine about relying 100% on your corporate job no matter what your salary or title is. Yes, investment banker sounds sexy at a bar, but make no mistake you are someone's bitch when they can call you up 8pm on a Saturday, tell you to skip that concert with friends, and to come into the office again for a 12 hour fire alarm. If you are trying to define yourself by your career you are falling into a seperate beta trap.

            Almost all of us have to work corporate jobs and there is nothing wrong with it on the surface. You get solid money, learn skills, make connections, etc. but the goal from day 1 should always be financial freedom.

            This means saving money outside of your 401k, even if it means driving a shitty car or not going out every night of the week. This means developing skills on the side that can make you employable should things go south. This means working on passive revenue streams or launching your own business. If you've never started a business before I can tell you right now it is 100x more rewarding than a corporate job, infinitely more interesting when talking to people, and ironically you work significantly harder when it is for yourself than if it is for someone else. Even if you make half as much as you did in the corporate world it is a decision I would make 10 out of 10 times.

            Last point is spot on as well. Grad school is for suckers who want to take their amateur status as an office drone to becoming a full time pro. Think your job is suffocating now? Add a $100k MBA shackle around your neck. The skills that stick with you after grad school can all be self taught with an Internet connection or library card. Grad school can be the right choice, but avoid debt as much as possible, especially early on in your life where you are still going through the motions

            To that last point this is also why I recommend avoiding marriage, engagement, signing a mortgage, until you actually fully enjoy what you do. Nearly everyone dislikes their office job to some degree, but having the freedom to walk out tomorrow and be ok holds more value than anything credit card debt could ever buy. I'm not against family and setting up that lifestyle, but just understand that once you have dependables on you your flexibility and freedom diminished significantly. Dependables can be human (kids, wife) and debt (home loan, car loan) that force you into selling your time for money with little negotiating power

            Always be learning, always have a backup plan. You'll do fine kid

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            God damn this is a beautiful post.

            Thx man.

            At first glance I thought it was another "how to climb the ladder and do nothing else" type post and almost started a counter, but it's TRP through and through

            I like to say I was RP back before there was a TRP. As I say to younger guys, "Any wisdom I have is the product of long and difficult experience...but to you, it's free."

            but the goal from day 1 should always be financial freedom.

            This x10,000.

            This means saving money outside of your 401k, even if it means driving a shitty car or not going out every night of the week.

            That was my 20s and early 30s.

            This means working on passive revenue streams or launching your own business.

            Really, I wish I was better at that when I was younger. I have some things going on now that pull six figures for me, but it's not all that scalable (for me) or replicatable (for other guys). Fuck, I wish I was better at it now. Anyway, my corporate gig is so easy, I keep doing, it, but eventually, I will get sick of it also. If I wasn't where I am in terms of the conditions I work under, I'd be way long gone, for sure.

            [–]TRPMaidenSlayer 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            I have a lot of strong opinions on corporate America. This post is one such strategy, but I choose not to play it at all.

            This is a must-read article if you do intend to play it:

            http://anonym.to/?http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees-that-stay-in-companies-longer-than-2-years-get-paid-50-less/

            Those I know who are "killin it" in corporate America are finding major raises every two-three years or so -- and it's not always with the same company.

            Do NOT get stuck with bullshit 3% raises all your life or you will end up 35 and fucking uselessly miserable (my friends who are in this boat are, unsurprisingly, also the ones who are miserably married with their second baby on the way and D-Day is only a matter of time)

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            I got my Professional in Human Resources because I want a bullshit do nothing job where I can stand head and shoulders literally and figuratively above my peers. I have a fairly good paying Govt contract job through grad school cleaning aircraft for the Air Force. The HR clerks are women, the HR director is a white male. I want to be that dude.

            For some reason the HR directors make more than the Fiance Directors (source: job postings on my state workforce development page).

            However I have a differing opinon on:

            Make Yourself Indispensable, and Then Disappear

            this may stop you from advancing. If they think you are indispensable they will leave you in place to have a better double talking psycho manage you. You have to let the psychos above you let you know that you can power talk and are willing to walk

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            this may stop you from advancing. If they think you are indispensable they will leave you in place to have a better double talking psycho manage you.

            It depends on what you want. Becoming "indispensable" does create the risk you describe. In my particular case, I don't want to advance beyond where I am. The real currency in life is TIME. I have a shit-ton of freedom and the only way for me to advance is for my boss to step off the wrong curb.

            He is actually a very fair-minded guy and I have also made it clear to him that I have zero interest in his job--I would have to show up at an office every day and that would suck, and not in the 'fun' way like with a lady.

            [–]IndyBrodaSolo 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            Make friends with HR.

            Flirt with them and bring them donuts every morning. This way you will make them even more fat and desperate for male attention. That way you can control them completely.

            [–]Sdom1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            Careful there. Some of them will be enamored, others will be jealous. You don't want to be on the radar that way. You just want them to think you're good people.

            [–]tallwheel 4 points5 points  (6 children)

            IT sees you when you're sleeping and knows when you're awake, and the Eye in the Sky Doesn't Lie (as we used to say back in my football days). They know what sites you visit, etc., etc. Thus you need to be a believer in the Separation of Work and State. My work laptop history (and I mean that thing that can't be erased by 'private' browsing, or whatever) has entirely mundane shit on it. Sites that are for work or work-related (research, travel, etc.) I visit other sites (personal business, news, TRP, etc.) on my other devices and never the twain shall meet. I don't use company wifi for personal devices, either. I keep two mobile phones: work and personal.

            As an IT guy, my personal opinion is that this might be slightly paranoid and overkill. While it's true that I can look at employee's browsing history if I want, I honestly have zero interest in doing so. I don't care who's checking Facebook or who's looking at porn or Neo Nazi propaganda. My bosses can also see my browsing history too, and nevertheless I still use my work PC for browsing places like TRP, and don't even bother clearing my browser history. I'm not deluded enough to think that anyone is interested enough to bother looking.

            There's a saying I hear from time to time in IT: The only thing really protecting the company is not antivirus and firewalls, it's the fact that nobody's out to get us. I think it's the same with things like browsing history, etc.

            Obviously, though, following your advice can't hurt if you have a reason to be extra protective of your ass and your job. Personally, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if I were to lose my current job, so keep that in mind when reading my (arguably horrible) advice. Obviously, though, don't do anything stupid like saving the login info for your bank account in your browser or anything.

            [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

            While it's true that I can look at employee's browsing history if I want, I honestly have zero interest in doing so.

            Yep. I have never met an IT guy who was--see my reply to /u/redpillbanana, above: IME, SAs have approximately ZERO interest in being the 'morals' police, but if HR comes looking, they will roll over on you. So don't do anything weird from your work computer, and you won't have a problem. It's a preventable negative consequence, so my advice is "prevent it".

            Bear in mind, some places are awesome to work and some places suck. Tech start-ups are super fun (or such is the word on the street) and Disney's nickname is "Mouse-witz". At least it was back in the Eisner days.

            [–]tallwheel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Maybe I should have written my reply to /u/redpillbanana instead of you, but again, your advice isn't bad and it definitely can't hurt. If you're in an important position or you know people are out to get you, then it's probably not a bad idea to protect yourself however you can. If you're just some grunt, though, don't fool yourself into thinking someone is looking at all your browsing history or E-mail. That's kind of paranoid.

            Speaking of E-mail, personally I no longer have access to see everybody's, though I did once. There are people above me who still do. There was one special case I can recall when we granted a manager access to the E-mail of one of the workers he managed, and that was because the employee was suspected of leaking info to competitors. So, yeah. If you're doing that kind of shit, don't do it on your company E-mail account, or be sure to cover your tracks.

            [–]slcjosh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Startups will be the only types of companies I work with for the foreseeable future. Your work matters, but no one is looking over your shoulder. It's the perfect job.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Yeah most people in IT are way to busy to sit there and review the average employee's habits. Overworked and understaffed, broken printer to troubleshoot and a new project starting up that was never planned for. But, the information is there in case anyone wants it. So if you are bopping the vp's secretary, and she wants commitment and you break it off, all those sites you were visiting, wasting company time, are now being looked at and data is being collected and compiled.

            [–]slcjosh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I have seen browsing history used as an excuse to fire employees who are asking for raises or applying for advanced positions.

            [–]verify_account 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            As an IT guy, my personal opinion is that this might be slightly paranoid and overkill. While it's true that I can look at employee's browsing history if I want, I honestly have zero interest in doing so.

            IT here and I feel the same. It's not our job to police and unless HR request something, we don't care.

            [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

            Corporateland: a more wretched hive of scum and villainy you will never find. But I appreciate your honesty in self identifying as a rat.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

              This.

              The place where I work now is basically awesome. Full of cool people. The place where I worked in the story with the woman who tried to give me her work was dysfunctional. I used to joke that you could go around the outer ring of the building (where the offices were, as opposed to the cube farm in the middle) and every 2nd office had a dysfunctional person in it.

              [–]Bhiim 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              My favorite moments while browsing TRP are when you find a post that clearly articulate exactly what you know/feel about a certain topic. Post well done.

              On a side note, how much do you know about debt in the big scheme of things? I am thinking of doing a post on this when my exams are over.

              [–]RPmatrix 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Great advice Uncle V but I'm with Mark on this one!

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I don't disagree, but realistically not everybody is going to go do that or what Tim Ferriss does. Those guys have to "sell the dream"--and to be clear, I do NOT fault them for that at all--but I'm giving practical advice for guys who are't going to go be ex-pats.

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              There's a lot of good advice here. I've turned down promotions to upper level management because I couldn't stand the evil you find so often, I would feel tainted by it just being in a meeting room with others. And if they smell you out to be a man with integrity, you will be viewed as weak and stupid. So don't go advertising your virtues, in the business world it's a double edged sword. Oddly enough, companies love to do business with other companies who are honest and have integrity. But when it comes to executives and employees within their company, it all comes down to who is CEO, and flows downhill. When they say "it's a jungle out there" its true. I've seen jobs lost for entire departments at a corporate executive's whim, listened to executives openly admit if they could loot pensions for $10,000 profit to the company they would do it in a heartbeat, and listened to executives tell other younger executives how they need to not care about people as much, to "distance" themselves from people when making decisions. Obviously hard decisions have to be made, but I always made them with the idea that someone's family is going to be affected. Of course not all companies are like this, but to succeed in the business world, you need to be either smart or ruthless, often both, and intelligence seems to be in shorter supply.

              [–]Sdom1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I think that this is more true of very established companies, and it's my personal theory that this is part of an organization's decline, like passing 35 and your test levels start to drop.

              I think it's even a part of the decline of civilizations. Psychopaths with no restraint take over and just tear everything down from the inside for their own profit.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              This is an "odd but true" fact.

              [–]bigmfkr 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              I'm surprised no one mentioned the Mafia Manager, the only book about corporate jobs you'll ever need.

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Mafia Manager.

              Not familiar with it. I'll look it up.

              [–]123_Meatsauce 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Hahhaha I love this shit, both for advice and comedic value. Great post

              [–]draketton 1 point2 points  (3 children)

              If there's someone who gives you shit constantly, what do you think of bugging your cubicle or office with something like a nest cam, so you win any he-said-she-said pissing contest that ensues?

              [–]TRPhd 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              I've found that the recording-level of paranoia is dysfunctional. That degree of stress leads to excess cortisol -- it ruins your sleep, your health and your appearance. It's just a shit life all around. Better for you to find a new situation.

              [–]arrayay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              At best you'd be terminated, at worst you'd also be prosecuted. "Your" cube/office is private property owned by the business and your suggestion would violate policy and likely law.

              [–]bored1243 1 point2 points  (5 children)

              I've got a quick question about training. Is your current value-adding potential the result of training that you received from all your corporate experience or is it the result of your own, not-through-work experiences (e.g. self-training)?

              I ask for this reason: I studied entrepreneurship in school, and as a recent graduate, I sometimes find it difficult to articulate my value proposition. I speak a bit of Chinese, but aside from that, I feel like I need training (whether it is in the corporate sphere or at a startup) to be able to add value in the future.

              If you could just briefly articulate on the role of training for a 20 something I'd greatly appreciate it.

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

              A combination. I am a natural extrovert. I can talk to anyone about anything at any time. I got out of school in a recession and went on a lot of interviews, so I got good at interviewing and 'directing' interviews from the candidate's chair (if an interviewer isn't prepared or sucks at interviewing, they will often be happy for it).

              Sometimes, it's the corporate training/work experience that gets you through the door--in my first 'real' gig (my second, overall), I had exactly the skill set my then-boss needed. He had a stack of work on the corner of his desk that he was procrastinating about doing, b/c he had no idea how to do it. The same stack was there during my call-back interview, only it was larger. I pointed to it and told him, "You know, if you hire me, I will make this entire stack disappear from your life on my first day, and you will never have to see another one of these deals, ever, while I'm here."

              I actually saw relief in his eyes.

              This is a killer thing to do in an interview: demonstrate immediate value to your future boss in a tangible way.

              In addition to taking that bit over (which was maybe 20%) of the company's business lines, I learned their other lines as well. When they got acquired, I volunteered to take the package and went back to my original field. After that, I got my current job.

              I know a guy who was a journalist. He has a degree from a top 5 school for that, but he told me that he didn't think that mattered b/c in every interview they always immediately asked him for his "clippings" (might have some other name, but that's what I remember; basically they wanted to see articles he had written). The reality is, his degree and gpa got him in the door, even though he may not have felt that way off the bat.

              For me, my experience is necessary for what I do, but makes me very good at what I do includes other factors as well. I mostly negotiate for a living, these days, so I spend a lot of time thinking about what other people are thinking about, and what their needs are (a surprising number of people in these situations think only about their own set of problems). So I can say, "So I understand your issues are [x], and her is how I propose to resolve them" (having spent the requisite amount of time understanding their needs.)

              Lee Iaccoca wrote in one of his books that the undergraduate classes that helped him most in business were in psychology not business. If you understand how people think and what motivates them, that is going to help you in nearly every environment. I try to take as many negotiation seminars as I can. And you should be comfortable with public speaking and speaking extemporaneously if you're going to run meetings.

              Sorry for the rambling reply; it's late here.

              [–]bored1243 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Don't worry about rambling. I appreciate the thoughtful reply.

              Negotiating/bartering is one area where I still need some work. Aside from real practice, do you recommend any books or national seminars that have helped you?

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              I have taken some CLE courses in negotiation (to keep my law license active), with mixed results. That would be one place to start. There is the Karrass (sp?) program, but I have never taken it, so can't render an opinion.

              When I do deals I have the other party redline our paper (we use our paper or 'industry' paper 99.99% of the time.) Generally I respond with accept/reject/explain. It locks the issues down.

              Before each negotiation, I spend 20-30 minutes going over the issues, and wargaming out how the discussions will go. A lot of this, for me, takes place on the subconscious level. I don't really think about 'process' anymore, I just do it.

              Also, I suggest avoiding situations where you are one person, negotiating with two or more people on the other side. If the other team has two or more folks, bring a "blocking back" or "3rd baseman". Sometimes our deal team guys bring me along for that exact purpose.

              [–]TRPhd 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              The best way to learn is to try and to fail. That was literally 80% of my PhD, with classes making up less than 10%.

              [–]Hennez 1 point2 points  (3 children)

              A great article.

              Any advice or tips on how to deal with legal issues at work? (the kind where employer goes batshit crazy and starts doing wrong shit with legal consequences to you?).

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

              Under the circumstances you describe, your best move (subject to whatever it is) is to GTFO. I would absolutely go see a lawyer and talk it over with him to see what, if any, obligations/liability you have. Your lawyer, retained and paid for by you, will have to keep whatever you tell him confidential, unless you release him from that obligation, which you might someday want to do, if you are ever a defendant.

              You can always get a new job, and you don't want it to be in the Prison Laundry.

              As an example, the US gov't is stepping up enforcement of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (likely not going to affect most folks here, but it is a recent example). They didn't used to go after individuals; now they are much more likely to. They love leveling fines for fun and profit. It helps fund the welfare state and lets pols flex and pose in front of the electorate and crow how they "got" so-and-so. "A.G." are the initials for "Attorney General" and they're also the initials for "Almost Governor". Also, under the FCPA, bad record-keeping has the potential for bigger penalties than the actual bribes. The cover-up is often worse than the crime.

              The Gov't LOVES prosecuting the "Great White Defendant", particularly if that person is a corporate chief and/or very wealthy. See Martha Stewart. (I don't particularly care one way or the other about her, and really, she had previously worked as a stock broker, but what they got her for was making false statements during the investigation, which is illegal under 18 USC § 1001. Most people aren't going to understand that they can get hosed for that, b/c it's not like they are under oath.

              Prosecutors usually want at least one scalp. In a lot of high profile investigations, nobody winds up being charged/convicted/pleading to a pre-investigation crime. From a justice perspective, I have some real issues with that.

              Must watch video: Never talk to police

              [–]Hennez 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Thank you for your reply.

              I agree, given the current situation it's a lot better to switch jobs.

              I also share your view on the current state of affairs. They love to go after those people (the "Great White Defendant" ones).

              Thanks a lot for your advice.

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              You may want to consult an attorney, anyway, to determine if you have any reporting obligations. IIRC, in NY (for example) to withdraw from a conspiracy, you not only have to say "I'm out", but you also have to report it. That's how I recollected it from bar exam study years and years ago. So it might be worth it to pay an atty for a half-hour of his time for peace of mind, depending on your particular situation.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              You may well have. It had its origins in a comment I posted some months ago on another Manosphere site. I have a different name there, but the comment (and this post) are my original work, except where noted.

              [–]1Jaereth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              IT sees you when you're sleeping and knows when you're awake, and the Eye in the Sky Doesn't Lie (as we used to say back in my football days). They know what sites you visit, etc., etc.

              They can but typically don't. We only typically look into a users history if that user or his device starts generating a problem on the network. But that's spot on about keeping work stuff separate. Like I said, if anyone ever wants to know - it can be found. In my department at least I don't ever go out of my way to burn a guy, even if I don't typically like him per say. On the other hand, when a department manager or HR comes and says "We need the history of what Employee X has been doing for the past few days" well I can't exactly tell them no.

              HR is the ones to watch out for in my experience. Keep your computer spotless like you suggested and you have nothing to worry about because there's no proof to dig up.

              [–]getRedPill 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              At last a possitive useful post for something you will use in life. Not another "Hey guys I spent 10hours daily scrolling facebook and at last I found this one post about how bad wymyn are. Let's collectively whine. Hur hur".

              Bravo

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Thx. When I was coming up, there were older guys who helped me out and so I try to turn around and help guys coming up after me. I don't know if anyone has seen that commercial with Brandon Marshal where he talks about coming into the NFL and how Rod Smith helped him become a better player, even though Marshall was basically there to take Smith's job.

              Anyway, as this post has been well received beyond my expectations, I think I will write another one about how to interview, when I can find the time to do it.

              [–]NutellaPancakeMan 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              OP, can you please tell me what your unique set of skills is concretely? My personal problem is direction.

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I am intentionally being cagey. The son of a friend of mine told me recently that I should post on TRP (I've known his dad, who was raised by a single mom and totally bluepill until fairly recently, since we were boys. The son figured out that Uncle Vasya was a better source of information on Life And How To Live It, yada-yada). I told him I already did and we had a chuckle about it. If he's reading this, he knows who I am. That's fine, but there are other people who I don't need hassling me. That said, I will say that I work in commodities, doing transactions. I make deals.

              [–]TRPhd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Just do something. Don't plan, don't wonder, don't stare at the fucking stars or sheep intestines -- just do something. http://markmanson.net/do-something

              [–]traversecity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I am super-extra-careful about the separation of "work" and "state". All my personal business is on my personal devices, and I never use the company wifi for them. The work laptop is for work, only.

              Sysadmin here. Can't stress this enough!

              When we sack you, I have to sort through your company laptop. Oops, left your cloud drive connected? ... work documents mingled with personal stuff, sorry, I'm copying everything and handing it to legal. Then wiping that cloud drive.

              Boss here, I am NOT paying you to surf reddit, IM your SO, or anything that is not work. Work for me, you earn my loyalty. Fuck off all day on social media, I'll show you the door.

              [–]1mojo_juju 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I don't log in much anymore these days (not that it matters)

              but when I do, it's to upvote good shit like this post.

              [–]TheLolomancer 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              As a young guy who's just entered CorporateLand from college a year ago, this is indspensable. Thank you.

              [–]TragicApostrophe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              You're a god. Keep them coming sir.

              [–]Squeezymypenisy 0 points1 point  (11 children)

              Does he mean learn a trade while at the corporate job?

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

              That was a little bit of a detour. It's different for kids getting out now than it was for me. I do recommend that guys learn a trade of some kind, although it doesn't have to be one involving a license and apprenticeship (e.g. plumbing, electrician). Maybe coding? I couldn't say b/c I don't know the first thing about coding. I had a teaching gig on the side when I was a younger guy just out of school b/c it paid (comparatively) well and was fun.

              [–]yaardi 1 point2 points  (5 children)

              Isn't coding just another office drone job?

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              I have no idea. I can barely divide by 3 without a calculator.

              What I do know is that modern workers need to be more nimble than ever, and having a marketable skill to fall back on should be goal for every guy.

              Kindly bear in mind that I'm not here selling anything, I don't have a book or a website, I'm just a (slightly) older guy, trying to help younger guys. If you think coding sucks, then try something else. /shrug.

              [–]BrunoOh 4 points5 points  (3 children)

              So it seems, but you're a lot less replaceable than in other cubicle jobs.

              [–]1Jaereth 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              No shit. There's a huge difference between someone who can code an application and the "I know how to use Word, Outlook and Excel" crowd.

              [–]BrunoOh 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              It's not just your level that make you hard to replace.

              You might be managing some legacy system, working on a project or be a sys admin. If you're one of few or the only person in charge of it, it will take quite some effort to bring someone up to speed. If you wonder about how replaceable you are, imagine in how much trouble your company would be if you got hit by a bus tomorrow.

              [–]Squeezymypenisy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              It would be awesome if you could switch careers during different parts of life. Like take new paths once you have satisfied one personally.

              [–]__ninja__ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              I did that and went back to my previous passion. Got called job hopper and disloyal and all, if only I actually gave a fuck.

              [–]TRPhd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              The saying is: two kinds of people will never starve -- farmers, and salesmen. My grandpa's farm was pretty small, but we never would have starved.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

              [deleted]

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              Depends on your skill-set. In my case, there have been some acquisitions, so not really 'job-hopping' on my part.

              If you have a unique skill set, that's going to trump everything. I know a guy who is super great at his gig. He's been a friend of mine for 25 years. It seems like he changes jobs every two years. He is getting to the point where he does have to walk potential employers through it, but he does have a story (not every move was his fault; in one case the plant he was at closed down, in another he fixed all their QC problems, and they decided to fire him and pay someone else 60% of his salary to run things, once he got them tuned up.)

              The the general rule is, for advancement you need to stay in place, but if you want something beyond some bullshit COLA that's dressed up as a 'raise', you need to switch companies, b/c it's very rare for a company to give you a big raise out of nowhere unless you have some kind of leverage.

              At this stage of the game, I don't give a shit about job titles. I want as much freedom as possible and (not too distant) second, money. If you work for a 'smart' company, they get it. The CEO was hosing me once about how much time I spend anywhere but the office and I got a bit defensive about it (basically that no one ever bitches that they can't get a hold of me, or that I suck, etc.), and he started laughing and said, "That's why I let you do it!" So that's why I've worked for that guy for 9 years.

              A word about CEOs. I have always treated them like regular guys. They get so little opportunity to be regular guys. A guy I used to work for (well, with about 3 layers in between) used to come by my office, close the door, and we'd talk about hockey (he was a huge fan) for 45 minutes. It raised my profile at the company, too.

              It was funny, some folks would be nervous and ask "What did you and John talk about for 45 minutes?"

              Me: "Hockey".

              Other person: "No, really, what did you talk about?"

              Me: "How you've been at the company too long."

              Other person: "Holy shit! Really?!"

              Me: "No, fuckhead, we were talking about hockey. I bet you want to believe me, now!" [Note: depending on the person, the "fuckhead" may have only been implied.]

              He also liked to spar with people during meetings, and so at one social meeting he was giving me the business and I was giving it right back. Afterwards, a number of people came up to me and basically told me it was nice working with me. Enough that I thought, "Fuck, maybe I did go too far?" He came upon me in the kitchen later in the day and commented that I'd been a good sport earlier in the day.

              Bottom Line: if the CEO is a tool or can't take a joke, you probably don't want to work for him, anyway.

              [–]coffee_and_lumber 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Experience is big, for sure. I work closely with my boss and sometimes help with the hiring. Something about junior-ish level people with several jobs just stands out as a red flag. I know someone like this and they are a mess. Software people working for startups are an exception...that's their normal.

              I've worked at least three years at every job I've had except for one where I put in 1.5 right around the recession and they laid off half the office. I've been at my current job for over three years and intend to put in another 3+. It's a huge national brand's headquarters and the money's decent. There is a ton to learn. Sometimes it's meh and sometimes I enjoy it. But simply working here at all puts me at the top of the pile for working other places in my city. Staying here and advancing and learning this job until it's very internalized will make me look molded out of solid gold. Almost everyone seems to leave here and upgrade their title at the next place they go, sometimes jumping two moves ahead. Ideally, every time you move to a new job, you should try to step up either in rank or salary or both, especially if you've put in a few years at each gig. These days, changing jobs is your best way to get an actual decent raise.

              This depends on your industry, but keep your LinkedIn profile updated and shit-hot. You might have some other company come and try to snag you. I've seen it happen plenty.

              No matter what your job is like, keep periodically looking for other jobs. Go on interviews. This both gives you options and lets you know the hiring climate. It might also put your current job into perspective.

              [–][deleted]  (4 children)

              [deleted]

              [–]Swoledinger 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Someone once tried to get me fired for sexual harassment.

              Here's where it gets fun. * Person leveling the accusations against me was... Another guy, Mike, that this girl had turned down. * She left the company about two weeks after I started. * Accusations against me were brought forth after she had not been with the company for almost a month. * The guy bringing the accusations had seen a note she left me on her last day. (It was all of 'We should hang out now that I don't work here anymore 555-5555 Cindy'). Prior to this Cindy and I had only talked once. * Because I'm not a blabber mouth no one in the company knew that Cindy and I had started a thing after she left. I also never facebook friended her. * Cindy clues me in that Mike had been creeping on her the whole time she worked there. * Mike leads a witch hunt against me, not knowing my relationship with Cindy * HR Tribunal sits me down to fire me. I informed them of the facts and offer to produce Cindy to corroborate my version.
              * HR Tribunal fires Mike instead.

              tl;dr Sometimes it not even the women you need to be careful around. Jealous dudes are more than happy to tear you down.

              [–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Wow, what an ass clown.

              Another thing to consider is jealous women (whether jealous of the relationship or merely that "Suzy is prettier than me and gets all the attention!"), or the person who overhears something and decides that they're offended by it.

              That can go the other way, too. I inherited a CA once who was a disaster. She was awful at her job, but trim and I suppose attractive if one favors the "Jersey Girl"/K-ROCK Slut Look. I don't. Blech. Anyway, she had her previous boss wrapped around her little finger. He let her take two hour lunches and basically did all her work for her; I slammed the door, hard, on that shit from day one. She tried to make trouble for me (not an overt harassment claim, but she would rattle HR's cage on me often enough), but the other women in the office Were.Not.Having.It. All the hens lined up behind me, b/c they hated that she had it so easy before, and loved I was actually making her to do her job. When her ex-boss was able to, he hired her, and for us it was definitely "addition by subtraction."

              I personally don't care who boffs who at work, as long as it doesn't interfere in my life. I only had trouble with it once, where the HR mini-me decided that I may have been resting my gaze overly long on the posterior of one of the admins (not coincidentally, the one I was fucking). Not that I could be blamed for that, as she pretty much had the Rear of the Year.

              So I get called in, and the mini-me starts in with "Sexual Harassment is unwelcome sexual adva..."

              Me: "Stop right there. There is NOTHING I do with Suzy that is 'unwelcome'. If you don't believe me, just ask her."

              Me [to Mini-Me's boss, who was a friend of mine]: "And we're done here."

              Mini-me: ". . ."

              A couple of notes: "Suzy" had my back and I had told her what to say if she got called in. Also, Mini-Me wasn't a cunt, she just thought she was doing her job.

              A couple of other thoughts:

              The problem isn't always "Well, Tom is more valuable than that slut from accounting, so we'll keep him and buy her off." First, there's the $ involved in litigation, etc., if Barbara doesn't want to go quietly. Second, the National Organization for Middle-Aged White Guys isn't going to show up and protest or mount a media campaign about how XYZ Widgets Corp are a bunch of evil sexists. Corporations like things nice, quiet and boring. They don't want "60 Minutes" showing up on their doorstep.

              Pussy is a commodity. It's not worth getting fired over. A lot of folks meet their future spouse at work these days, but it's just as easy to chat up Suzy Sugartits at the company next door than Samantha Sugartits that you work with.

              On the flip side, I know a woman who works at a Famous Wall Street Bank. If you name the first four of five big financial institutions you can think of, it will be one of those. So she's an admin and starts fucking a guy at work. And she's totally cool about it. The guy's wife finds out and raises Holy Hell. She basically forces the guy--who is, as it turns out, a total pussy--to make it a work issue (she also rats out my friend to her husband; they were amicably separated and in the process of divorcing and he couldn't have given a shit, but that's how vengeful this bitch was).

              So what happens? The guy was actually on track for big things. HR calls my friend in and asks "What do you want?" And pretty much what she wanted was going to happen. Think about that for a bit. She basically said that she wanted all the bullshit to go away, and to keep working there, and she wasn't going to complain and would basically be a good citizen.

              They transferred the guy from HQ to an office that was maybe 45 minutes away, but it might as well have been Alaska. Or the moon. He was going to make the $ he was making, but his fast track career ended the day he let his crazy ass wife start making work decisions for him.

              So yeah, there is a >99% chance that you can bonk a chick from work and nothing catastrophic will happen. But it's like a kidnapping; it's a low frequency/high impact event. And Bob MegaStar might survive it, but you, noob, are not yet Bob MegaStar.

              As the Italians say, "Don't shit where you eat" (only they say it in Italian.)

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              The only people who get fucked over by banging a workplace sloot are boderline beta career cucks who have ZERO value to their superiors.

              Even if you are valued you can be replaced and will be gotten rid of if the situation gets too hot or as soon as your performance only meets acceptable standards.

              If you are alpha enough to get the tingles and get away with it go for it. If you rock the boat and make it harder for the rest of us to do our jobs, we will burn you at the first opportunity because you fucking our money.