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MetaMisogyny is a blue pill ideology. TRP merely tolerates it as part of the transformation. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Summary:

Our detractors frame us as misogynistic pigs because many of those who post here express misogynistic ideas. We merely tolerate those ideas. We know that the outside world has bred many men who are angry for being lied to about the true nature of women, but now that they are here they can shed those ideas through self improvement and better understanding of women. Men come here and lose pre-existing misogynistic thoughts, not develop them.

Body:

Type "the red pill" into Google and you'll find article after article claiming we are a community of sexually unsuccessful men who hate women. They cherry pick the worst quotes from the angriest of the guys in the anger phase and write about how terrible and bitter we are. However, they're forgetting something important. These guys came in here from the outside world. This is like claiming that it must be raining under a pavilion because most of the people huddled under it are wet. Well, it's raining pretty hard outside, and we've got a lot of guys coming in to dry off.

The problem is already out there in the minds of millions and millions of men. They're bitter, angry, and depressed about how women relate to them, but in any other setting they are quiet because they know their true feelings will only get them shamed. Here, we give those angry men a place to shout. The existence of a "rant/venting" flair shows that we are aware of this dynamic. Sure, sometimes a group of anger phase newbies will upvote some insensitive comments, but hating women and wanting inequality is not red pill. Those are the ideas of a bitter, blue pill guy who can't get laid, or an early stage red piller who hasn't come to terms with what he's experiencing. When he comes here and follows the advice given in the top posts and the sidebar he'll regain his sense of masculinity and become a better, more confident man. A confident man has no reason to be angry at women. He'll throw away his idealistic views of women and come to appreciate them for the value they add to his life.

I am far from the perfect red pill man. I still have lingering anger towards feminists. I still feel as though women get a free pass on many aspects of life. However, I felt that way before I came here, and now I'm slowly letting it all go. I'm learning to see that men and women are simply different, and we have different struggles. The longer I stay here, the more I appreciate women. I can bond with a woman in many ways I cannot bond with a man. I can connect with her romantically or physically. I can have a deep, meaningful conversation with her after sex and connect in a way you can really only connect when you're lying naked with someone in the dark, or I can fuck her brains out and make sure both of us are having a fun night. I've internalized that women are human and fallible, and that I can't expect them to solve all my problems or to love me unconditionally.

The point is, the damage was done before they got here. Just because you didn't hear these thoughts doesn't mean millions of men weren't thinking them. Men are coming here armed with these misogynistic ideas, and this sub gives them an outlet to transform their anger into something productive. It will take months, years for a man to internalize red pill and realize that his anger was unnecessary. To all our critics I say be patient and recognize this place for what it is, a training grounds for dissatisfied men. Let the men train, let them grow. When you see the guys who've been around here for years, you'll realize that what comes out the other side is anything but misogynistic.

Lessons Learned

*Critics of TRP are criticizing the angry newbies, who are a product of society, not TRP

*Without TRP, guys are still thinking these thoughts, just not saying them out loud

*A man is more likely to hold misogynistic thoughts if he misunderstands women

*Men who have put in serious time improving themselves as per the advice given on TRP come to appreciate the value women provide to their lives without harboring unrealistic expectations


[–]BlackPhoenix01 160 points161 points  (42 children)

I read something Karen Straughan (an MRA, I know, but still...) wrote, that most members of TRP aren't angry at women as much as they are angry at being lied to this whole time, by the media, by Disney movies, and by their White Knight friends.

There's also the fact that men aren't allowed to be emotional. If a girl goes buckwild, cries her eyeballs out, and talks about how all men are evil, people will comfort her. Imagine a man in that role, and people are going to tell him to get a grip.

Thing is, we have to be true to our feelings as well, and the thing is, I came out of this respecting women more for who they truly are, as opposed to this overidealised angelic projection I've been spoonfed by feminised society.

If anything, the White Knights/Feminists are far more misogynistic than we are

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (25 children)

Some of the MRA's are misogynistic too because they tend to buy into gender differences being a social construct. That whole concept of the social construct being the root of our differences will burn you through and through.

The fact that our differences are biological means they are also immoveable. These are permanent and constant differences that you cannot change. MRA's make it sound as though a little "talk therapy" will undo the work of God. You have got to reach a level where you quit wishing for change and NAWALTs.

MGTOWs simultaneously opt-out of dating yet talk about women all the time because they say they seek to understand. If that's true, I believe there is a level of PUA that comes to a man post-MGTOW. Because if you really and truly understand, then you should have PUA available to you.

[–]Senior ContributorRedPope 43 points44 points  (18 children)

Pay attention, gentlemen! This is the entry point to the Acceptance stage:

The fact that our differences are biological means they are also immoveable. These are permanent and constant differences that you cannot change. [...] You have got to reach a level where you quit wishing for change

Biology is undeniable. Reality does not change to fit what we think is fair. Accepting that is not a defeat. It is liberation. All that time and energy wasted on anger is now free. Put it to good use!

[–]TRPShill 18 points19 points  (1 child)

You cannot talk a woman out of acting on her womanliness, just as you cannot convince a man ( a sane one anways) that a hambeast is sexually attractive

[–]ScoobyGang 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree, but I think the even more concise extrapolation is that you cannot move someone, regardless of gender from what they believe at the core. I'm going to simplify and not call I nature because I think that's a different branch to climb. It's not what they think or feel, those are more preliminary reactions, rather it's what they are convinced is true. Making someone sink for someone else far below their standards isn't necessarily easy, but it's a finesse of the framing of the unattractive party or a conjuration of the fears of the party that doesn't want to do it. Making a female or a male provider go against their nature is impossible, it simply doesn't work that way, persuasion and the effectiveness of the subsequent shift in reality is a game of tipping scales not launching boulders. Its why it's a big step to even be in the anger phase, and I mean truly, because the vast majority simply aren't ready or maybe never will be. It's why you don't show your full colours, remain careful even on mostly anonymous Internet forums. Initially, because it is detrimental to yourself and ineffectual. It's why you can't make someone who behaves beta change, you can only show them the way they can grow and evolve, and if you care that much, hope they walk the path.

[–]RPRedhead 5 points6 points  (14 children)

Perhaps I don't fit the mold, but I'm more bothered by society's differing attitudes towards women and men than actually angry at women. Why is there such a thing as pussy pass? Why do women get such an advantage in family court? Why does the cheerleader effect exist? (Retorical questions...pls don't try to answer).

If we are a free and just society things like this should not exist. We're ALL guilty of putting women on a pedestal and treating men like shit. I don't expect women to change, but I hope society gets a clue someday...wake the fuck up already!

[–]letsgetrandy 9 points10 points  (6 children)

I hope society gets a clue someday

The problem with this is that there will always be alphas, and by extension there must always be betas. If all of society unplugged, the stakes would simply be raised and the rules would get harder, resulting in a new red pill and a new group of people wishing society would get a clue.

[–]RPRedhead 3 points4 points  (5 children)

I think you're correct from a social dynamic perspective. My point is that we give lip service to equality in this country but allow our evolutionary biology to take priority over equality. Thus, female advantage in several areas that should be equal.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

My point is that we give lip service to equality in this country but allow our evolutionary biology to take priority over equality.

This has always bothered me. Even in something as simple as medical school admissions they tout equality and fairness, but I consistently see tall/attractive men and attractive women get more favorable reviews from interviewers. The halo effect is real. Biology takes priority. In the context of social dynamics, that does mean that women have significant advantages. I really don't mind. I'm successful and happy regardless, and it helps to be a good looking man (although I would say that was the result of significant effort on my part). I just wish we could be honest about it.

[–]RPRedhead 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It feels like Animal Farm to me. Some are just more equal than others, right?

[–]letsgetrandy 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I think you're correct from a social dynamic perspective.

It's not just a social dynamic, it's engrained in evolutionary biology/psychology. There will always be a lek, always be mate selection.

Female advantage isn't merely a cultural aberration, it's very much a function of our DNA. Fighting it will only frustrate you. We are all programmed to give, assist, and care for women, and disproportionately toward the most attractive (read fertile) of women. And this happens at a cellular level... it's not just your brain doing what society has conditioned it to do.

Why? Because there are survival advantages for the species in this equation. Women are programmed to care for children, and men are programmed to protect and care for women.

we give lip service to equality in this country

The "lip service" to equality is merely the hamster at work. As people become more enlightened and more "equal", strange mental gymnastics arise to justify the advantage that women instinctively know they are entitled to. Hence the "is chivalry dead" lament you see all the time, in spite of no shortage of men who still do all the textbook gentlemanly things that make up the word chivalry.

We can't fix the system. We need to understand that it isn't even broken. Evolution is much bigger than any society, bigger than any movement. These are the traits that allowed us to evolve successfully to where we are, and they're deeply engrained in our biology.

[–]RPRedhead 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I think I get the biology perspective. But we overcome biology/evolution every day. I do not run around like a beast eating squirrels raw and raping whoever (whatever?!?) I feel like fucking. There is little need in modern society for us to hunt and gather or band together in tribes for safety. We have evolved beyond these needs. Will we never evolve beyond over-protection of and unnatural advantage for women?

Apologies, I think I need to stop this discussion here because it's moving too far towards purple pill. I don't want to be banned.

Thanks for your thoughts, letsgetrandy.

[–]letsgetrandy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is little need in modern society for us to hunt and gather or band together in tribes for safety.

Little need to do this for food. But that doesn't negate the biological imperative to do this, which now results in hunting for the best sale price on a sexy new pair of jeans, or gathering every issue of the original Spiderman comics, or banding together in tribes of like-minded sports fans, or political parties.

Will we never evolve beyond over-protection of and unnatural advantage for women?

No. This behavior is seated deep in our DNA, lower even than the evolution of most cognitive brain functions. It's hard to imagine an evolutionary path that would wipe this out.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Why are those rhetorical questions? All those questions have a straightforward answer. I hope you stick around and accept the truth. You'll be happier. It'll be like putting on glasses for the first time.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I think he meant they were rhetorical for the purpose of his post, that he already knows the answers now but didn't in the past, and that he preferred to keep his point focused on the 'free society' topic and not the 'pussy pass' topic.

[–]RPRedhead 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks for hitting the nail on the head, abetterarsonist.

[–]ScoobyGang 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean, the logical answer to your questions derives from an evolutionary basis. Protecting women as more valuable; I think the majority of following reasons articulate from this. There's others too, some more and less saturated in things like ideology, predisposition, and mindset. But honestly, why does it matter that it's not fair? Why does it anger you? How are you going to save a society that doesn't want to be saved? And finally, most importantly, why does it affect you and can you make it less binding? If you can start to answer some of these questions for yourself I think you'll be less angry. A man doesn't stand in stasis because of his predicament, he acts to change it or bend it to his will, whichever is more gratifying.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I hope society gets a clue someday

Ever get what you wanted after an election? Sheeeeeeit.

[–]ilikeurbootyimnotgay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The day I accepted our biological differences is the day I stopped being angry at women, and started understanding them.

[–]mhornberger 0 points1 point  (1 child)

MGTOWs simultaneously opt-out of dating yet talk about women all the time because they say they seek to understand.

I think that depends on the guy's sex drive. I identify more as MGTOW than RP and I 'try to understand' women far less than I did when I was dating. The RP forum seems to have many more theory posts, touching on female behavior and evolutionary psychology. The MGTOW thing seems more focused on just dropping out, and not predicating it on hoping that women will change and appreciate us once we're gone.

Because if you really and truly understand, then you should have PUA available to you.

Many MGTOW guys are trying to make that less important in our lives. I agree that the PUA thing should be available, but many of us just want to sort of get over it. It's just recreation, but if the ride isn't worth the trouble to get it, it's a net loss. But I think this comes down to the sex drive you have, and if it's high then no amount of MGTOW arguments will change that.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]billythebeta 14 points15 points  (2 children)

If a girl goes buckwild, cries her eyeballs out, and talks about how all men are evil, people will comfort her.

This is because thirsty betas have been conditioned to do this by society as an "in" to have sex with a woman. Obviously doesn't work, but betas often don't learn this lesson til it's too late.

Things are expected of you as a man, like it or not. You will never get the same treatment that a young attractive woman will get-- the most you can do is better yourself

[–]3NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT 7 points8 points  (1 child)

This is because thirsty betas have been conditioned to do this by society as an "in" to have sex with a woman.

It's very interesting to go to Stoya's twitter page, click on her tweets about James Deen, and pay careful attention to the profile pictures of the men who are saying things like "I believe you", "I support you", "You're so brave", etc. You'll notice a trend.

[–]cucumber_vaccine 9 points9 points [recovered]

(an MRA, I know, but still...)

Why do you say that?

There's also the fact that men aren't allowed to be emotional.

This image did the rounds on KiA recently. As much as McIntosh disgusts me, I think it says everything that needs to be said.

[–]BlackPhoenix01 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I personally disagree, on a basis of principle, with the MRM. It's Feminism for men essentially. They have brought up some serious issues, but they do nothing but bitch about everything. That said, I can respect that some of them are former feminists (Warren Farrell) and people who have worked on domestic violence (Erin Pizzey)

Men are allowed to be emotional, but we can only be emotional over super serious things. Crying over the loss of a family member is A-OK. Crying because a girl ditched you. That's petty

[–]cucumber_vaccine 8 points8 points [recovered]

So your objection to the MRM is less about the issues and more about the bitching?

[–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yes. Impotence is objectionable in men.

[–]1Paid_Internet_Troll 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Women bitch and cry and moan about things, because then some man will come in and solve their problem for them.

If you're a man bitching and crying and moaning, what do you think you're going to accomplish?

Nobody gives a fuck about weak men.

The MRM is an attempt to explain logically why weak men are getting the shitty end of the stick. It's true. But nobody cares.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[deleted]

What is this?

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol, they probably wouldn't either.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Agreed on all of this. I first started reading this sub because I saw a lot of pretty valuable insights on how to interact with girls and realized some shit I was doing wrong in texting and early-on dating and so forth.

I have a pretty positive opinion of women because I'm a high value guy. I just don't relate to all that hypergamy nonsense, I've never been cheated on, etc. That may be true if you're a loser or dating out of your league a lot. From where I stand, I would generalize that women are really sincere and true in their intentions.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (2 children)

This is like claiming that it must be raining under a pavilion because most of the people huddled under it are wet. Well, it's raining pretty hard outside, and we've got a lot of guys coming in to dry off.

This is a fantastic analogy. It's not wet under the pavilion. What would a bunch of wet people do after running in from the rain? Are they going to magically dry off? No, they're going to wring out their clothes (dumping tons of water on the ground), and then gather around the fire.

TRP is a pavilion where guys can dry themselves off from their wet, uncomfortable misogynistic ideas. They gather around the fire (lifting, game, confidence) and the longer they stay there the drier they become.

[–]RunTheJewelsFast 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I wouldn't mind this becoming the new logo. "Come by the fire and dry off a while, son."

But the red pill/blue pill dynamic seems to work better.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a different expression. Anger phase is still red pill. It's just a transitioning phase before the real product. Dry off by the fire could be an expression for the transition from angry phase red pill to acceptance phase red pill.

[–]MisterMisogyny 23 points24 points  (9 children)

You're conflating anger with misogyny. They are not the same thing, and there can be more things underlying misogyny than anger.

Yes, there are many angry men here. Yes, they are a target for our detractors. Yes, anger can be a source of misogyny. But I would argue that anger at women is neither necessary nor sufficient for misogyny. They are not synonyms. Accepting that they are is falling victim to the feminist troupe of power-talk.

Here's some definitions straight from google:

A misogynist is a person who hates or doesn't trust women. (wikipedia)
Misogyny is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. (wikipedia)
Misogyny: dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. (www.oxforddictionaries.com)
Misogyny: hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women, or prejudice against women. (dictionary.reference.com)

Not that "anger" does not appear.

I am not angry with women. I do not have unrealistic expectations of them. I know women's nature very well.

Branch swinging. Hypergamy. Overvaluing status. Validation seeking. Childishness. Irrationality. Feels before reals. Pettiness. Shallowness. Privilege and entitlement -- in so many ways. Manipulation -- lying, cheating, actions not matching words. Lack of honour*. Regret rape. Conditional, transactional, opportunistic love. Briffault's Law. Divorce rape. Misandry, gender politics, the female and feminist imperatives. Powertalk (Machiavellian postmodernism).

Those are traits of women that are discussed here constantly (and most are in the sidebar). I think that they are perfectly valid reasons for disliking, mistrusting, and/or having a prejudice against women. Holding those views does not preclude one from appreciating other positive aspects of women, but that does not necessitate that one must like and trust women.

[* Note: Honour, duty, and the like are entirely male values, and I believe that they clearly demonstrate that men and women have a very different system of values. I also think that it is totally okay for someone to decide that they dislike women because of thier value system.]

Also:

A confident man has no reason to be angry at women. He'll throw away his idealistic views of women and come to appreciate them for the value they add to his life.
Men who have put in serious time improving themselves as per the advice given on TRP come to appreciate the value women provide to their lives without harboring unrealistic expectations

These are both are examples of "No True Scotsman."

[–]RealGucciSosa 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Here's some definitions straight from google:

  • A misogynist is a person who hates or doesn't trust women. (wikipedia)
  • Misogyny is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. (wikipedia)
  • Misogyny: dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. (www.oxforddictionaries.com)
  • Misogyny: hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women, or prejudice against women. (dictionary.reference.com)

Note that "anger" does not appear.

I am not angry with women. I do not have unrealistic expectations of them. I know women's nature very well.

Branch swinging. Hypergamy. Overvaluing status. Validation seeking. Childishness. Irrationality. Feels before reals... Briffault's Law...

I'm with you on this one. According to most sources, misogyny is any sort of hatred, prejudice or mistrust of women.

While not hatred, TRP absolutely promotes bias and wariness of women. That's the whole point. When we talk about AWALT, hypergamy, Cluster B types, etc, we are saying "be careful of women and women's nature". It doesn't have to be hate, but its certainly prejudice and mistrust, i.e., "misogyny".

This is my second account here but I remember up until a year ago (when I posted more), there was a lot of emphasis on evolutionary psychology in posts. Of course, some point we decided to have established those topics as dogma, and proceeded to make use of them instead of "figuring it out" and now its mostly sexual strategy discussions. But I remember clearly, and unless doctrine have revised, men and women are not equal, we are different (unequal). That was the entire foundation.

Contrary to what OP mentions when he states: "Sure, sometimes a group of anger phase newbies will upvote some insensitive comments, but hating women and wanting inequality is not red pill."

Men absolutely must be wary of women. And you can make the argument the other way as well. Pious women need to be wary of men, to maintain their piety. Slutty women need to be wary, to get away with their slutiness. Just how it is, that's sexual strategy in a nutshell.

I think OP made a lot of good analogies and points as far the media's selective reporting and disparagement, but I can't agree with his thesis.

[–]yeti_throwaway 0 points1 point  (2 children)

wanting inequality is not red pill."

TRP is accepting that there are differences between men and women. It is not an ethical system, religion, ... that wants inequal treatment.

[–]RealGucciSosa 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Nor does it specifically want equal treatment. Biology simply is what it is, and society is what it is. You just deal with it. Believing in organic hierarchies may be called "misogynistic", but it's what it is.

[–]yeti_throwaway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly. That's why his statement that "hating women and wanting inequality is not red pill" is correct. How to act on the informations we learn from TRP is totally up to every individual. Some still hate women for being how they are, most wake up and make peace with the world as it is.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think both affirmative action for women and divorce-rape really prove their lack of honor.

They don't want an equal playing field, en masse. And they will betray "loved ones" if given some incentive.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I completely agree.

And there is also the distinction between disliking certain groups of people because of their common traits, and harming them in some way.

Hence, although I share your views and am, by such definition, a misogynist, on the other hand, I believe in legal equality for women, for them to have all the rights that men do (when it makes sense).

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Please explain how a man who is truly confident and secure can also have tons of anger towards women in general. It's completely incompatible

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 64 points65 points  (5 children)

Our detractors frame us as misogynistic pigs because many of those who post here express misogynistic ideas

Oh no... we are framed as misogynistic pigs to silence dissent.

Women and white knights and feminist 3.0 types now use "sexist" and "misogynistic" to mean "said something that I don't like".

Men like to be seen to be fair, and women use this to get "equality". And then they use the same system to scream "inequality! sexist! misogynistic!" as a way to beta shame men into doing what they want men to do.

Even if you took the most mild truths from this sub and presented them to the world, they would still yell "you woman hating shitlord!" at us. Because TRP truths are bad for their reproductive best interests. They profit (literally as well as in terms of commitment, attention, etc) from the misinformation of the BP world. If men knew how the women they married regarded them, few would marry. This truth perhaps more than any other must be hidden from the world. The whole AF/BB is womankind's dirty little secret, and god damnit they want it to stay a secret.

Just accept that the criticism is going to happen because you are being disobedient in their eyes, and don't worry about trying to prove to yourself that you're not sexist. Once you realise that the criticism will happen regardless, you stop trying to conform to any definition at all of not being "misogynistic".

Free yourself from the chains of female approval seeking and you'll go far.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 26 points27 points  (0 children)

TRP truths offer significant psychological advantage and freedom from feminine grip.

Women want the end product of a masculine man, but they HATE the process required to get him there.

[–]kinklianekoff 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would go even further and claim that the whole concept of misogyny as it is used today is a construction that does not mesh with a red pill way of thinking.

Behaviour is logically the only way of producing outcomes. Misogyny has long been a weaker term not actually meaning mistreatment of women in the behavioural sense. It is the voodoo doll of rape.

[–]thefisherman1961 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They profit (literally as well as in terms of commitment, attention, etc) from the misinformation of the BP world.

That's exactly why the Blue Pill world exists and is so powerful, even though it is extremely disorganized. A group of disorganized individuals with disorganized thoughts have come up with a complex system of thoughts that work together to benefit a large group of people (women), both economically and sexually. That is how free market economics works!

And in all free markets, competition is inevitable. Enter Blue Pill competition: The Red Pill. Isn't the free market wonderful?

Isn't it any wonder that Feminist 3.0's wage war on the free market? Even if they aren't consciously aware of it, they despise it because it doesn't benefit their personal movement (government-enforced Feminism 3.0). The free market doesn't play favorites like government does. It is amoral. It does nothing to benefit the feminine imperative, and if it creates conditions that spawn movements to benefit the feminine imperative, it will also creates conditions that spawn movements keep the feminine imperative in check (the Red Pill). It's not surprising that this sub attracts many Anarcho-Capitalists, because Anarcho-Capitalism and The Red Pill go very well together.

[–]rpkarma 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's changing though. Take a look at Rollos "Open Hypergamy"

[–]old-path 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Meh, I still want full control in a relationship, you're either the hammer or the nail in this world, equality will always be without a mass philosophical basis and outside of reach. I demand the same from any other part of life, I want as much power as I need to ensure the most personal freedom, which isn't much, I don't need a country nor even a city.

This "hammer or the nail" dilemma is something I think both red-pill types and feminists need to kinda nod more too. You know who wins at the end? The one legitimately putting skin into their position and taking a personal risk to gain what they want.

[–]smthsmth 8 points8 points [recovered]

from the "schedules of mating" sidebar

I want to stress again that (most) women do not have some consciously constructed and recognized master plan to enact this cycle and deliberately trap men into it. Rather, the motivations for this behavior and the accompanying social rationales invented to justify it are an unconscious process. For the most part, women are unaware of this dynamic, but are nonetheless subject to its influence.

the same thing could generally be said about men too.

many "decisions" have already been made by the context we're put in, and most people don't understand how those contexts came to be, how they are socially recreated. of course, we're talking about general trends, and there's a lot of variation between different individuals.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Thoughtful post. Totally agree that TRP detractors cherry pick posts and comments by newbies going through the anger phase as evidence that we're all woman haters. It's actually absurd to believe that a sub largely dedicated to improving success with women hates them.

Critics of TRP are criticizing the angry newbies

I think it's deeper than that though. TRP is a place where guys get together and shoot the shit. A lot of the language will be coarse, profane and, yes, to the uninitiated ear, misogynistic. TRP is a virtual locker room where guys get to be guys and lot of what we do is talk openly about women, the way a lot of us did in real locker rooms, barracks and other masculine spaces.

My view on the detractors: fuck them. We shouldn't be seeking acceptance from them. They're not just reacting to rants of anger-phase newbies. They have a wider agenda to take down this sub like they did other masculine spaces.

[–]rpkarma 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The funniest part is that if you've ever heard how women talk amongst themselves about men you'd know that women are in many cases worse, heh.

[–]RedSugarPill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TRP is a virtual locker room where guys get to be guys and lot of what we do is talk openly about women, the way a lot of us did in real locker rooms, barracks and other masculine spaces.

Exactly! Everyone knows this is a locker room. It's ridiculous to think otherwise--then again, we live in a ridiculous world.

[–]xfLyFPS 3 points4 points  (1 child)

For me, this red pill wasn't just a red pill about women's behavior. After taking the pill, I started to explore what led to this whole mess we're in. I'm angry at history. Most people don't realize this, but the world has constantly been in a state of war since 1918. Not a conventional war, but an ideological war fought using the media and other things capable of influencing a person. I'm worried about subverters making their way into our subreddit and writing articles that slowly go against core TRP theory to make the majority of the 140 000 subscribers believe in lies.

Being angry at women is like being angry at your window for being broken. You're supposed to be angry at the criminal who threw a rock inside your house, not the glass.

[–]1Paid_Internet_Troll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most people don't realize this, but the world has constantly been in a state of war since 1918.

It's been going on a lot longer than that. This stuff is rooted in biology. The entire history of the human race, from the beginning, is about women and alphas feeding lies to betas to get them to be good little worker bees and good little warrior drones "for the glory of the hive/tribe/kingdom/nation/etc."

The entire history of the human race, from the stone age to now, is extremely similar from century to century, with minor details changing (like which particular pack-of-lies is currently in vogue).

[–]UsernameIWontRegret 4 points5 points  (4 children)

What kind of fucking shitpost is this?

A year ago a top TRP post would have said "Misogyny is treating women differently from men, so fuck yeah I'm misogynistic".

What kind of beta ass post is this trying to guise what we do as fair?

[–]katmf01 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It is just entropy, unless energy is spent stopping it, TRP will dilute into the blue pill ocean.

[–]UsernameIWontRegret 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seriously. How long until it's fashionable to be red pill? Makes me sick.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

A year ago more of us were in the anger phase. Sounds like you never got out of it. Also, misogyny is the act of treating women objectively worse than men. TRP isn't about saying women are worse than men, it's about spelling out the differences between us and positioning yourself so you can get your dick wet while also avoiding getting fucked by the feminist imperative.

[–]UsernameIWontRegret 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've never been in the anger phase, I always knew something was wrong I just couldn't put my finger on it.

There are way more people here than a year ago, logically there should be more in the anger phase now.

Misogyny isn't necessarily being contemptuous. It's treating women differently because we know what they are.

A year ago men here would have said that, as it is. Now this is trying to justify us as saying we aren't misogynists. Who gives a fuck? Why are we justifying ourselves to society? This is the most beta ass post guised as red pill truth I've seen on here in a long time.

[–]dirtydog413 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I don't accept the premise of the OP. Misogyny doesn't imply anger. You can be misogynistic and totally calm and rational at the same time. Misogyny means dislike or mistrust of women. Well when you understand women's true nature then surely it is natural to dislike it and be mistrustful, aka misogynistic. Unless I'm missing something. Perhaps it comes down to semantics.

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[–]dirtydog413 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Women are inherently untrustworthy, men are not, that's the difference. It isn't to say women are entirely bad and I 'hate' them, which is what some people probably think of when they think of misogyny. But you can't let your guard down with them and entirely trust them, ever. It's just the way they are, they can't help it, it's hard wired.

[–]8n0n 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women are inherently untrustworthy, men are not, that's the difference.

All guns are loaded. Look for that past submission if you have not seen it already. Linking it to others where needed would save you a bit of time when the topic reappears (gets more sidebar worthy with age IMO).

[–]krieggz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm not really an active user of TRP anymore because I've already had enough of my share of reading and made my own conclusions, but what you say is completely true.

I've had the pleasure to see several users of TRP give actually good avice that is by no means misogynistic, but rather helpful self-improvement tips that have actually been useful.

TRP is actually a great resource if you know which advice to pick.

[–]stolidfact 3 points4 points  (0 children)

When an outsider critiques a way of thinking, that critique is rooted in the underlying thoughts and ideas that the outsider believes. So approaching the world with the unexamined perspective that people have some kind of underlying goodness (instead of transactional utility), or that human rights apply in a universal unalienable way (with an ever-expanding idea of rights, often without corresponding responsibilities) creates a gross distortion of what red pill ideas advocate.

And as a result of judging the ideas of red pill piece by piece with a standard of primarily reactionary emotional well-being instead of the standard that the red pill advocates, of a collection of practices, the critics impose their moral and other standards on others. This imposition is necessary to preserve the frailty of the self, because when a mind turns inwardly, one self-preservation approach is to seek to make the world in that image through force, instead of accepting reality and people as they are.

Where red pill thought proves challenging is when newbies are in a kind of transition state, holding on to the emotional reliance on their past views, while accepting the prepositions that unplugging brings. It creates dissonance, often expressed as undirected anger and a kind of disdain for the former self that elevated women.

Some never really exit this phase. But it's a transitionary one for most, until that dissonance fades and the internal experience matches what red pill advocates.

[–]ironblacksmith 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Of course this post will never be mentioned by all of the TRP haters..

You're right, though, I feel that progression as well. I'm still very much angry (googling TRP was not fun) but it's not at women at all, it's mostly at the system in place and men for allowing all of this.

[–]RedHeimdall 4 points5 points  (1 child)

You have a point OP but I would say anger instead of misogyny. Misogyny is an attack word used by feminists, so we shouldn't be using that label at all -- if we do we have "surrendered the frame" to our enemy at the start. 99% of what people in the modern West would include under the heading of misogyny is simple common sense folk wisdom regarding the sexes and long-standing traditional values of successful societies.

Misogynist, sexist, bigot, xenophobe, homophobe, racist... all of these labels have been tailored by the radical Left to attack and smear anyone outside of the current orthodoxy. They have been bloated (and overused) to such a degree that even one of the most "progressive" members of society from 50 years ago would now fall under them. They're a joke and should be rejected outright.

But otherwise, I agree -- if you're angry and pissed off with a chip on your shoulder, you have not reached acceptance.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

if we do we have "surrendered the frame" to our enemy at the start

I wouldn't call feminists the enemy. We're not a movement, and while feminists stand for things against the general interests of men (e.g. divorce laws), we should be looking at individual issues and not squaring ourselves up with particular groups. I agree that those are terms tailored by the left (I wouldn't call them all "radical") to shame those outside of the current mindset/agenda. The left is every bit as controlling as the right, if not more, and they use tactics that are just as deceitful. Also, if you're going to make a point about your critics, being able to use their terminology can make for a stronger argument.

[–]Theophagist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Misogyny is a misnomre regardless.

[–]10xdada 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really like this post.

The perspective that, what people perceive TRP to be is actually just the external view of the reaction that occurs when guys come to the realization that they have been lied to and played by the people they cared about most - captures it very well.

When you find out a huge part of how you define yourself, what it means to be good, and the whole social contract for the rewards of being that version of good, is based on what were essentially lies from your mother, yeah, you freak the fuck out for a bit.

The anger phase is a healthy response to the feeling of total, comprehensive betrayal that occurs when the pieces start falling into place. A lot of men commit suicide or have psychotic breaks that cost them their remaining relationships when they feel they have been irreparably dishonored. TRP is a very healthy alternative.

SJW's don't matter and they become completely invisible when you focus on your own goals. I can't think of a situation I could find myself in where their opinions mattered.

[–]not_a_prophet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Type "the red pill" into Google and you'll find article after article claiming we are a community of sexually unsuccessful men who hate women.

Honestly I can't believe that shit... I'm sexually successful & love women. Also, I thank G-d for TRP every day... it improved my over all life & stopped me from having sex more than I can count.

[–]colordrops 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been post-misogyny for a while now, married with two kids after a stretch of harem management. But there is another phase I'm struggling with now, which is that I still long for the old days of passionate love instead of frame maintenance. I keep things on lock and don't ever get surprised, but sometimes think that it would be nice to be vulnerable again. But I know where that goes so I don't go there...

[–]Stoned_Duckie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These guys came in here from the outside world. This is like claiming that it must be raining under a pavilion because most of the people huddled under it are wet. Well, it's raining pretty hard outside, and we've got a lot of guys coming in to dry off.

Love it. Most of us were already angry when we got here. If you want to criticize this place you can't say this forum is the root of the problem. We're all just normal guys from the "outside world" and we would still be angry and think the same without this place. The only difference is that this forum actually helps a lot of people to be around women and be happy instead of taking out their anger on women, when it's not their fault actually, it's just in their nature.

[–]Uptonogood 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is sidebar worthy. A nice little response to the anti-TRP circlejerk.

[–]RedSugarPill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Type "the red pill" into Google and you'll find article after article claiming we are a community of sexually unsuccessful men who hate women. They cherry pick the worst quotes from the angriest of the guys in the anger phase and write about how terrible and bitter we are.

More proof that misinformation is ubiquitous.

[–]1mr_nate_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exceptional points made — I never thought about how we come here carrying misogynistic ideas and leave here as stoics.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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What is this?

[–]teamjkforawhile 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I needed this post. Sometimes It's easy to slip back to angry

[–]iopq 0 points1 point  (0 children)

+/u/dogetipbot 100 doge verify

[–]topapito 0 points1 point  (0 children)

*Without TRP, guys are still thinking these thoughts, just not saying them out loud

Really good post. I'd just like to add that most people would like to keep the truths of TRP just like they were until now. Unspeakable. You can think them all you want, just keep quiet about them lest everyone starts to recognize how it works.

This post hit the very center of the nail's head. Thanks OP.

[–]NiceTryDisaster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow. A+ post. Thanks for putting in the time to writing it so brilliantly and sharing it here.

[–]Evilence 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe, it is definitely the case for the most men coming here. Imagine it this way.

You are a grown up man but with false views of how the world works around you, these views for whatever reason were in your head for the entire life. Now because of this false ideas your mind generates unrealistic expectation of how the world around you would react to your own actions. When in fact the world reacts in another way, you are dissatisfied and more likely to claim that something is wrong with the world around you, you get angry, things dont work out the way they are supposed to.

But in reality getting angry at things around you is useless when the cause of the problem is false expectations in your mind. You should only be angry at those false ideas in your head. Here at TRP we try to get rid of these idealistic views of the world and replace them with realistic ones, those that generate realistic expectations of the reactions to your actions.

Once that happens you would have no reasons to be angry at the world (i.e. women or relationship dynamic or anything else for that matter) because now you know exactly what to do to get what you want. Instead of being angry you become confident.

[–]thefisherman1961 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still feel as though women get a free pass on many aspects of life. However, I felt that way before I came here, and now I'm slowly letting it all go.

Yep. Obviously the pussy pass is the result of beta white knights and women in positions of authority, but after digesting the pill you realize that it's an inevitable fact of reality that will never change. We need beta white knights in order to keep the sexual hierarchy stable, and as long as they exist, the pussy pass will exist. But there's no point in being pissed off about something that can't be changed. And even if it could be changed, I wouldn't want it to change.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The anger only comes about because you realize the Truth was being hidden from you when you allowed the Blue Pill reality to be unquestioned.

Once you "wake up" you realize that the same "tricks" that had been used on you in the past (those emotionally indoctrinated ideas came from an outside source) are now your Game to use on others.

Once the victim of the "big Game" (Blue Pill) you are now master of your own Game.

When you are at the level of defining your own reality you have forgetten the anger... from so long ago.

.

[–]syther23 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Maybe I'm just misreading this, maybe I'm still in the anger phase. But this post seems a little apologist in nature. Why does it matter what feminist or people on the outside think? Why do you use the word misogyny to describe TRP?

There are biological differences between men and women, that's the core of TRP, and if because of that the guys here don't see women as equals then I think that's just fine.

[–]1Paid_Internet_Troll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is an orange equal to an apple? Is a pineapple equal to a potato? Is a banana equal to a pomegranate? Is a radish equal to a cherry?

Men and women are more-or-less equal before the law, but they're certainly not identical.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a really valid comment. This post is definitely a bit apologist, but I think there's good reason to think about what our critics have to say about us. We're not a movement, but introspection is important, and you still have to justify that what you're doing is okay. It's also good to let the anger phase newbies know that believing men and women aren't equals is not the enlightened state we talk about on TRP.

My only problem with this comment is the implication that the differences between men and women make women inherently not equals. You have to define "not equal" to make the comparison. Women are worse at some things, better at others, and as a rule I personally think a human is a human when it comes to their "inherent value." In terms of "added value," it's useless to make a men vs. women comparison. Men are better in general at logical thinking, but I know women who would run circles around most guys in here, so make those comparisons on an individual basis. Where I think society gets it wrong is equating equal opportunity with equal outcomes. That's the message I would want to send. Women might be overall worse at the tasks involved in [insert job here], so a 60/40 men/women split in the workforce in that field should not be considered a slight to women, it just means that statistically there are fewer women who do that task well enough to get a job there. Same with men. We are not as empathetic and caring as women, so it's no surprise that there are fewer male nurses. Men are simply less qualified to do the job.

[–]J_AsapGem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Listen. if everyone was great, the meaning of the word would make no sense, some people are destined to be plugged in for life,just be greatful that we're different. As i always say greatness is in everyone but only free find it.

[–]HS-Thompson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The longer I stay here, the more I appreciate women. I can bond with a woman in many ways I cannot bond with a man. I can connect with her romantically or physically. I can have a deep, meaningful conversation with her after sex and connect in a way you can really only connect when you're lying naked with someone in the dark, or I can fuck her brains out and make sure both of us are having a fun night. I've internalized that women are human and fallible, and that I can't expect them to solve all my problems or to love me unconditionally.

This is an absolutely core concept, thank you so much for spelling it out so clearly and articulately.

I fucking love women, they are amazing, they make me feel great, I have had some of the most interesting and rewarding experiences of my life with a woman at my side or involved. I can't imagine wanting to live some kind of life that didn't involve women.

But I'll cut and paste this from your paragraph again for emphasis:

I can't expect them to solve all my problems or to love me unconditionally.

Yup. And basically all of the fuck ups and life mistakes I have made involving women involved me not wanting to get those two facts through my thick skull.

Which of course, is my fault.

[–]1Soarinc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great explanation -- the rain analogy is a good way to compare it.

[–]2rp_valiant 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Excellent post and very true. I was actually considering adding this particular post to my queue of topics to write about but you've covered it nicely here.

Misogynists are the angry niceguys like Elliot Rodger who hate women for not fulfilling his feelings of entitlement to a girlfriend. Or the angry niceguys who feel that the girl he's been orbiting should be in love with his platonic ass by now, and start to stew in resentment of the girl they have pedestalised because it didn't work out like the romcoms said it would. We take these guys, confront them with the inconsistencies of their beliefs and match up their experience with how dating really works, let them vent/rant while they start improving themselves, and as soon as they start to see results from following actually useful advice for one, they mellow out and become successful attractive guys. We're a factory, whose raw materials are niceguys and doormats and who output raw unadulterated alpha.

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Just curious, how does being a MGTOW make you a weirdo misfit? And who said they are bred in TRP?

[–]2rp_valiant -1 points0 points  (0 children)

well, it doesn't always go right. Not everyone can take the heat that TRP puts you under to self-improve and put yourself out there.

[–]merciless_smelliot 1 points1 points [recovered]

"but hating women and wanting inequality is not red pill."

Exactly. Bloopers hate women for being incapable of authentic equality. We accept women in all their fallible psychological and intellectual weakness and we don't insensitively try to hold them to the same standards as men. Women are so tired of trying to wrap their heads around the complex affairs of men and we relieve them from having to keep up the pretense that they're capable of the same depth and insight that we are. She wants so desperately to be led and we arrive to lead in all things. If that's not loving women I don't know what is.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm going to go as far as to say that even comments like this are stuck in the anger phase. I think this can all be said to be true of women, but only in the context of forming relationships and managing expectations within those relationships. Women do tend to think far more emotionally, which is why you can't expect them to have the same depth of insight into those matters only.

Many people will read this comment and believe we are here belittling women, but I would never claim that women are less capable in general. I would argue that they have deficits in the areas of logical thinking in regards to relationships, and that they are unreliable when it comes to loyalty because they are used to being led by the strongest available male, but I would not draw a line and say women are intellectual weak. I have a plate in my medical school class right now who, frankly, is intellectually superior to nearly all men I know. She can think logically, she can employ good judgement when it benefits her, but what she cannot do is apply this ability to her personal life. She wants to be led in her personal life and to lead in her professional life. Feminists make the mistake of thinking they want both, but are sorely disappointed when the man they date is a pansy who gives her the reins.

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[–]merciless_smelliot 2 points2 points [recovered]

Right cupcake. Look how strong and independent you are. Now run along and be a good girl.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel happy reading this. Thanks for putting it succinctly.

[–]Boovs4life 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I recently found a sub in which they make fun of white knights and, being new, i asked if it was linked to TRP. Just for asking that simple question i got down voted to -16. So one of them responds with "no we just make fun of white knights. We don't hate women like TRP." I then said that was a RP stereotype and got re downvoted to -14 So apparently, everyone thinks we hate women.

[–]letsgetrandy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be fair, a lot of people here do appear to hate women. They may be in the anger phase, but outsiders don't know about that... they only know the words they're reading.

[–]BlueFreedom420 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I would like to interject that there is another type of misogyny: Ontological/metaphysical/spiritual misogyny.

You are born a male, with an incredible sex drive. you then realize that the object of your drive is this being who doesn't like sex. A female Its like wandering a desert. Even if you find a female who has sex with you all the time, you know that its for some other purpose.

When you play football, you know that the other players share you passion for the sport. Not so with females.

So this misogyny is based on the fact that the universe has played a joke on you. No matter how much pussy you get, you are the only one who enjoys it. You are alone in your hunger, and often manipulated/punished because of your hunger.

You can never get the motherly love and erotic pleasure in one partner.

So to just call misogyny just an anger phase is wrong. Now one can channel their "hate" into a healthy way. Simply never letting women and the state control their hunger.

This Misogyny should not be considered just a irrational emotion. People hate terrorists People hate corporate monopolies. Why not women?

I know red pill never really touches upon the spiritual aspect, but many see a spiritual solution to this problem. Becoming one with their self -becoming independent of female sexuality at a fundamental level.

Many have also become sexual predators: sexuality without consent ( not just rape but all sex activity without consent) as strategy to actualize their hunger.

[–]CarLucSteeve -1 points0 points  (2 children)

you then realize that the object of your drive is this being who doesn't like sex.

This is the most untrue statement of all. Women only appreciate it differently, at a deeper cognitive level. You just don't know how to please women yet. Talk to them.

[–]BlueFreedom420 0 points1 point  (1 child)

"Deeper cognitive level"? are you kidding me? Women's "sexuality" is tied completely to wealth and power. "Please a woman" ? GTFO

[–]CarLucSteeve 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol. Im what youd call a manlet (5ft6, 150 lbs) with over 100 partner at 25 y/o. But whatever floats your boat. Stay angry and stubborm.

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

This is exactly the sort of comment that would be cherry picked for an article, but really, you're just letting out that anger, or "wringing out your wet clothes" as a poster stated above. Eventually thoughts like this will become tiresome. You'll get better with women as you improve, and you'll soften in your views. I think you'll find most people are supportive of people protecting their assets, and you'll learn to avoid and ignore, rather than resent, the women who are out there looking for "cash and prizes."

[–]Bartand 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Woman are liability, not asset.

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Thanks for the gold. Really though, no excuse for racism at any stage. Someone on here once said, "behind every racist there's a woman bouncing up and down on a [insert race here] dick." Any racism here is a product of insecurity. I personally ignore it.

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[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (4 children)

stop gilding things, these people hate you.

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[–]1rlh1271 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

GOOD FUCKING POST. God damn.

[–]1nzgs[🍰] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Personally I don't view TRP as being misogynist in the slightest. It seems that the word is most often used to shame anyone who dissents from the feminist narrative, rather than for sexist bigots.

I don't feel that women do not belong in the workplace - I think that they should be employed on blind merit and that companies can hire or fire anyone they like for any reason.

I don't think that sluts are immoral skanks who need beatings - I think that some women are just naturally slutty and their behaviour can be mutually beneficial for many men. The world needs whores.

I don't think that a wife should be kept locked inside and beaten into submission. I think that most women will happily and naturally gravitate towards household roles for a man with high enough SMV.

I'm sure there are a few conservative morons on here who use TRP as a platform to spew misogynist nonsense, but really those people haven't grasped TRP at all. I feel that TRP is just as enlightening and freeing for women as it is for men. The freedom for women to pursue whatever sexual strategy they want but in the knowledge of which behaviours affect their SMV so they can make the smartest decisions.