Red Pill ExampleGrandfather dropping some RP truths (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

The other night at dinner, when my grandmother walked away for a minute to check on the laundry, we were talking about marriage when he dropped this on me:

I have a theory. My theory is that when a woman is secured in her marriage, I think there's this chemical that drips and drips and drips when you both are dating that makes her want to suck and fuck your brains out all the time. But, however, when she becomes secured and settled, has some kids and is living the "marriage life" that chemical slowly stops dripping and becomes more of an exchange of goods. She knows you want sex and he knows she wants a commitment. And that's marriage my boy, an exchange in goods and services. I then ask "why did you get married?" He then replied Because we know how this game works. She makes sure our sex life is good and makes sure I have food in my stomach and she knows that I am a good provider and will care and love her for the rest of her days. We take care of each other and out of that comes love and a successful marriage. (They have been married for 22 years btw)

Not really a long post boys. Just some grandfatherly advise.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 393 points394 points  (62 children)

We take care of each other and out of that comes love and a successful marriage.

Welp, good thing modern feminism put two bullets in that concept's head. We wouldn't want a woman thinking she might have, gasp, an obligation in a relationship, while freely taking the benefits of the man's obligations. That would be nigh slavery!


[–]NickCiufi 119 points120 points  (32 children)

Although it's not relevant now, 32 years ago it was a pretty sweet arrangement. Can't fault the guy for getting in while the getting was good, but the market is a lot different these days.

[–]bowie747 24 points25 points  (11 children)

What can a man offer long-term to a high powered career woman? Emotional support, sex, "life accomplishment"...I doubt these alone can sustain a marriage for 20+ years. As GP mentioned, once the heat dies down the relationship becomes an exchange of services. Eventually one party is going to get the shits and bail. Not that women shouldn't pursue careers, they most certainly should if they want to. However they must realise they've taken away a mans primary value, setting the bar extremely high for her potential partners.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children)

setting the bar extremely high for her potential partners

The only solution is women marrying at 23 years of age men who are 10 years older and are already established in their careers. That means shortening the length of the cock carousel ride to only between 16 and 20.

Women who insist on dating men only slightly older and postpone finding a husband till their late 20s will be genetic dead-ends.

[–]aang1818 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Buddy, I hate to say it, but you are deluded if you think the CC starts at 16. I have met 1 (maybe 2, cant remember exactly what the 2nd said) women who said they lost their virginity after 15. And both were hideous hamplanets who had trouble getting cock altogether prior to OKC and Tinder.

Literally every other woman I asked who was willing to answer said they took their first cock between 13 and 15. Even the 19 year old I just met has had 7 partners prior to me, and her 15 year old sister is even worse.

[–]billythebeta 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Not that women shouldn't pursue careers, they most certainly should if they want to. However they must realise they've taken away a mans primary value, setting the bar extremely high for her potential partners.

This is important-- women with careers can work, but it adds to the "risk" portion of a risk analysis when a man plans to marry a woman.

Why? Well, she will lack domesticity when she comes home (fewer hours of the day at home), is tired, doesn't want to cook/clean/watch kid-- things that are traditionally a woman's task.

Also the things you mentioned-- a man's commodities become less of a factor, and what's left-- her "tingles" for you, and we all know how susceptible the hamster is to turn to another man when her "feels" wear out.

[–]2rp_valiant 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Women like to marry up in status too, and if a woman has a high-powered career as a lawyer, banker, whatever, then the number of men who are "above" her will be much smaller. Women never ever marry down, given the choice. It's why there's a lot of strong independent black wymyn struggling to find a partner, crying "where have all the good men gone?" - they're still there, but they're no longer good enough for her and have become invisible.

[–]billythebeta 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What's funny is that I distinctly recall one of my feminist English professors in high school shoveling this brand of horseshit to the class. She said something along the lines of "if you want to have a happy marriage, marry someone that is more successful or happy than you"-- obviously directed to the girls in the class.

[–]NickCiufi 3 points4 points  (2 children)

However they must realise they've taken away a mans primary value, setting the bar extremely high for her potential partners.

I don't believe a man's primary value is as a provider. I also don't believe that there would be a lot of agreement with that statement in terms of Red Pill theory, given the slippery slope from "good provider" to "beta bucks".

In my opinion, the primary value provided by a man is leadership.

[–]bowie747 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair point. Well let's instead say she's taken away a major component of a man's perceived value

[–]2rp_valiant 0 points1 point  (0 children)

but why would she accept the leadership of a man she perceived as less successful than her?

[–]scamper_22 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well it depends on your view of marriage. A long time ago men had lots of wives and concubines. Marriage was mainly about status.

A long time ago, it was common for men and teen age boys to have an odd sexual mentor style relationship.

Traditional marriage as we know it was more egalitarian. Every man gets one woman. And every woman gets more attention. Men provide. Women take care of the home, kids, husbands comfort.

In each of those cases, your takeaway is different.

You can't get the same things from a traditional marriage anymore than a traditional marriage could expect the same from the old days of harems and concubines.

If your takeaway from a modern marriage is combining income and raising kids, that's what you can get out of it. Women won't get the attention and loving they wanted in a traditional marriage. Men won't get the respect, and comfort they wanted in a traditional marriage.

As long as both sides are aware of the 'social contract' things will change, but they can work. The problem today of course is people are not really aware of the social contract.

I got married before I found TRP, so take it for what it is. But, I was aware of the change in the social contract. My wife had to be earning and have a job, so that if we divorced, she can take care of herself and the splitting of our assets won't ruin me.

And I'm reasonably comfortable in that situation. I was in a more traditional LTR at one point where I highly out earned her. I got more respect and comfort, but if we were to divorce, I might get fucked. So where I am now is definitely better in that respect.

Where it goes, only time can tell. Maybe NEVER GET MARRIED is good advice.

But I think things will evolve. Unless the human race is heading for extinction. Kids will still be born. Families will still be there. Single people (men and women) can have kids on their own, but that's very stressful.

People will adapt and find value in the new kinds of relationships available to them.

You can't get stuck in thinking 'traditional' marriage is all there is and ever will be. Yeah, a high powered career woman won't need your income. In the end, they don't want to be alone. In the end, they know most of their 'friend' relationships are show. In the end, many want a family and comfort and company and status that marriage provides.

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

That was pretty much his take on third-wave feminism well in his own words usless bullshit

[–]RevMick 3 points4 points  (2 children)

When I go places (home included) and look at the door after entering, I often ask myself "Do you have the emotional, financial and physical ability to silently walk out that door, start a new life and never explain that decision to another human soul."

The peace an honest "yes" gives me is worth more than anything else that comes to mind.

I call this test the "Silent Goodby".

The old school couple in this story never questioned the man's ability to do this. So the women made sure he'd choose to come back every time he left. The chemical "drip" may have dried, but she knew he had that option and planned accordingly.

The moment a woman realizes you don't have that option, your last BJ from her is well behind you.

Plan accordingly.

[–]1eight7 1 points1 points [recovered]

Now that the government acts as a provider and enforcer of alimony/child support, I don't think any man can have that effect anymore.

[–]RevMick 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The only winning move is not to play, so get snipped early and don't marry.

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[–]Kingoffistycuffs 11 points12 points  (2 children)

So 95-98%? Gotcha, I'll keep my ear to the ground for women with ltr potential. It's most definitely something worth looking for.

[–]1Snivellious 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They exist, if it's what you're looking for. Sure, there are no unicorns, but not every woman today grows up with the full female entitlement message.

I've certainly heard women say the actual words "I'm in a relationship with him, so sex is part of my obligation". Transaction/obligation sex isn't enough, but it matters like crazy to find a woman who accepts that she has actual duties in her relationship. (And, who reliably carries out her duties in other settings. No use in finding someone who knows what they need to do but blows it off.)

[–]CQC3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Water. That's water you're hearing my boy. It takes every single form except that of a marriageable woman.

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[–]aang1818 -1 points0 points  (7 children)

I guess if you are into women over half a century old, finding someone with traditional values wont be a problem? For the rest of us it certainly is.

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[–]aang1818 -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

I dont think you really get what AWALT means. It means what it says.... AWALT. I dont know how to make it clearer.

Everybody wants to take home a unicorn, but it just aint gonna happen.. Isnt one of the first rules of this sub "Never get married"? If AWALT wasnt 99.999% true then marriage wouldnt be the problem it is.

LTR game is mostly for men who married after finding TRP and dont want to be cuckolded or divorce raped.

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[–]aang1818 -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

Me? Oh, thats rich. You are the one trying to redefine AWALT into Some or Few WALT

Really wish we IQ tested people before letting them comment :/

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[–]CQC3 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I don't agree with Aang, but AWALT is AWALT. It doesn't mean you can't be in an LTR, and it doesn't mean you can't find a woman you like more than a plate. It does mean that you're not in the BP paradigm, and that you realize that no matter how she presents herself, what you've seen or heard, and what you feel, know that she is capable of what all women are capable of. Swinging to another branch. Men are romantic, women are opportunistic. Their love is not your love. That's what TRP is useful for outlining.

Sure, there's women out there that you can LTR, but you're probably going to have to find somebody with potential and vet them. There's also slim chances you can find a babe that was raised by an alpha father and knows how to behave, but that's few and far between. Most women are not LTR worthy and overall women are getting fatter, more entitled and are easily taught by society female game, meanwhile men are taught jack shit on how to game women.

AWALT means exactly that, every woman has the potential to be that way--especially if you aren't putting out good game, and even more important, sometimes the best game won't make a difference in a woman leaving you. That's why people say stuff like, she's not yours, it was only your turn.

TRP generally advises against LTR's, but there is LTR game because people are going to get into them, not everyone wants to plate up necessarily. Better to understand what you're getting into and provide information on it than just say "no LTR BAD!"

Overall, the deck is stacked against you in an LTR, and most of the LTR guys here consider the relationship as a prerequisite, disposable. LTR game in a nutshell is you enjoy a womans company, she puts out well, doesn't disrespect you much and follows your lead, and she gets LTR'd. The condition is also that you put up with zero shit and make that clear you can walk anytime. LTR's are manageable because of this, marriage...is not.

[–]verify_account -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Maybe never marry a woman who feels entitled to everything and obligated to nothing?

Yeah totally, remember NAWALT! Find your unicorn today!

[–]billythebeta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"But muh freedom!"

Until men grow a sack and learn to enforce these social norms, fat feminists will keep trying to pursue against it by taking benefits without obligations.

Luckily even the most blue pill betas/omegas are wisening up with time, after they see failure after failure because their society has failed them. It's only a matter of time-- what's the term again? Something bubble.

[–]HeatseekingLogicBomb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Clearly you are washing your Red Pills down with SJW tears.

[–]fromdario 80 points81 points  (6 children)

At the age of 13, I asked my grandfather for an (admittedly stupid) bday gift.

He told me, “you are a man, go get a job and buy it yourself if you really want it.”

So I went and got a job and have been gainfully employed every since and relying on only myself to survive.

At the age of 15, he asked if I had a girlfriend. I started to complain about difficult girls (which was really me being a pussy) at my school.

He told me, “I should focus on my own happiness and go after the girls I want without apology and without compromise now that I was young.”

Took the advice and put myself and my family and friends above every woman. Was confident and direct with women, approached often. Watched as I got what I wanted in relationships again and again.

In my 20’s, my grandmother told me I should settle down and get married. My grandfather told me privately, “don’t get married until you find a woman who makes you a better person and improves your life…. and one you can’t stop wanting to fuck.” he chuckled.

In my 30s and still single, but with great friends/family, great career and several quality plates.

Context: Grandfather immigrated to the US as a teenager with nothing and built a very successful medium size business on no education.

(for transparency, this was paraphrased because this was all years ago but I remember the spirit of the advice.)

Thanks Grandpa.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Men who grew up outside of the West often still have their heads screwed on right. Without the poison of feminism men aren't as deluded.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I disagree with this.

There's too many other delusions. Get rid of one problem, face another.

[–]dj10show 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes and no. My family grew up outside of the West but are hardcore religious, which I can't even take seriously anymore.

[–][deleted] 124 points125 points  (4 children)

I like it. Most of our grandfather's were probably old school redpill guys. I know my grandad picked up my grandmother while he was at the drive in movies with another girl. haha He tells me "before you get married you need to double everything negative about the girl. If you still can handle that, then marry her."

[–]Toolazy2work 46 points47 points  (0 children)

Except it wasn't called red pill, it was called being a man.

[–]slay_it_forward 52 points53 points  (0 children)

Yep. Mine is from the WW2 era. 89 years old. Didn't realize what an alpha he was until after swallowing trp. Used to think he could be a bit of a dick. Had 13 kids. Ran a big farm. Got elected as a member of parliament for 8 years with a grade 8 education. High level baseball player. Built like a tank. Always imposing his frame and everyone always falls into his frame. Tells my grandma and mom what to do all the time. Never lifts a finger around the house.

Other alpha traits he had people don't talk about much, very well liked, great storyteller, dedicated worker.

[–]sippindrank 18 points19 points  (1 child)

My grandfather was a baptist preacher who had two families going at once. They're just now getting to the point where they'll talk to each other.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's pretty ballsy right there. Dubious, considering the whole baptist preacher part, but ballsy.

[–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (3 children)

If I could go back in time and tell EITHER of my Grandfathers that most American men today are overweight, afraid of their wives, and believed in gender equality then both of them would explode in fits of laughter.

[–]RPmatrix 32 points33 points  (2 children)

well, it is pretty funny .... sob

[–]1PrinceofSpades 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Nothing to sob about. It's hilarious.

[–]RPmatrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah! I didn't want to spoil the 'flow' of the post with an /s ... but how could I avoid saying it! :D

[–]scarletspider3 77 points78 points  (14 children)

You're lucky to have a grandpa that knows the deal and guides you. I think if more guys had guidance like that the world wouldn't be diseased as much by feminism.

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (9 children)

It's a shame however, that's there's a slim chance of finding a woman like that in this generation. It's not impossible but extremely unlikely.

[–]thenemaxofredpill 72 points73 points  (6 children)

You gotta train your woman. You are the captain and should set the standard and expect no less. You are looking for a business partner. If your business partner is not handling her side of the deal, then you stop doing business with her. Plain and simple. I constantly tell my LTR that this is just business when she give me shit about not telling her that I love her. I tell her it is just business and I like doing business with her and if she wants all that lovey dovey shit, then she needs to date a woman.

Started dating her when she was 22 and just won a big miss black pageant so she was all in the whole "I don't need a man but I will SETTLE for a guy who is rich and owns homes and travels and blah blah" stage. I pulled great game and then left her hanging for a month. Chick tracked me down through my friends and we dated ever since. Told her that she is more than welcome to go and wait for Mr. Prince Charming if she wants or she can get a grip and see what she has in front of her. You gotta keep these entitled bitches in check else they will run all over you and think you inferior.

[–]2renzy77 28 points29 points  (2 children)

You are looking for a business partner. If your business partner is not handling her side of the deal, then you stop doing business with her. Plain and simple.

The problem is with the "contract" that this kind of business partner comes with: if you sign a contract with this business partner, your "partner" can then renege on her end of the contract at any time and take your house, your kids, a significant portion of your assets and force you to send her monthly checks for the next 18 years of your life or face jail time if you fail to pay.

Nobody would legally bind themselves to such terms with a contract like that in the business world, but if you put the word "marriage" in front of it suddenly men are like lemmings off a cliff.

[–]thenemaxofredpill 16 points17 points  (1 child)

I agree. I do not advocate marriage contracts. I do advocate free will business partnership. Meaning, LTR at the max.

[–]pmmedenver 4 points5 points  (0 children)


I think he's 100% correct. The culture today isn't what it used to be, women aren't willing to follow anything more than basic emotions, and emotions will always lead you to cheating. Our society is too open and sex is too everywhere. That being said, good! Monogamy is so much more work than polyamory and such less satisfying, we aren't swans.

[–]alcathiax 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You gotta train your woman. You are the captain and should set the standard and expect no less.

Exactly. In fact, I saw this video about a self-proclaimed and proud "chauvinist" who apparently understands women all too well. He looks like he lifts and he is to the point. Video on YouTube

[–]thenemaxofredpill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice video. Dude was a boss and held frame well. Check out Dick Masterson on Youtube. Dude is also a boss.

[–]scarletspider3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or we could try to condition her to be like that.

[–]ANUS_CONE 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I will be this grandfather. Don't worry.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (2 children)

I wouldn't even mind this deal if she would hold up her end of the bargain reliably.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 51 points52 points  (1 child)

Why should she, when his side of the deal is legally enforced.

[–]Il128 44 points44 points [recovered]

Thanks to feminism she can divorce him and he'll still have to provide for her for the rest of his life.

Never get married.

[–]mutageno 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, and cooking isn't exactly rocket science. Plus if you are lifting you are quite on a diet and a woman will more often than not sabotage it.

[–]1cover20 1 point2 points  (19 children)

I don't think alimony works that way.

As for child support, it's supposed to be a separate deal if everyone is playing fair. Granted they don't always. Hire the most expensive lawyer you can find and fight even dirtier if it comes to that.

[–]Date_Rate 35 points36 points  (10 children)

Child support is a joke and is commonly used as bonus alimony, because it's based on the income not on the child's needs. Watch the documentary Divorce Corp.

Never marry, ever.

[–]2renzy77 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Child support is a joke and is commonly used as bonus alimony, because it's based on the income not on the child's needs.

And guess what, nowhere is it written that she has to prove that the money you're sending her is being spent on the kids.

For all you know, those monthly checks you're sending are financing the vacations she's taking with the guy she left you for.

[–]Date_Rate 2 points3 points  (0 children)

True. Another bonus is that where alimony is tax deductible, child support isn't, and the amount you need to pay her is after taxes.

[–]voomer53 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My ex used to cash the child support checks at the liquor store - true story.

[–]soulure 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Divorce Corp

Checking this out now, thanks for the recommendation.

[–]Date_Rate 4 points5 points  (1 child)

It's very good. I read somewhere the guy who made it said he tried to display rather than the gender bias mostly the corruption by the law and how powerless people in the mill are.

[–]RedDeadlift 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That was the right angle and he did an excellent job.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

This has really been bugging me lately. I really want to continue my family and my traditions someday, but I do see that marriage is a trap.

[–]Date_Rate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why does it bug you? I know what you feel because I felt it myself. When I really thought about it I was only hamstering, there is no benefit for me in marriage.

Or are you wondering about child support? I've seen many couples have kids and not get married, and it works out fine. Yes you would still be on the hook for CS, but I believe by being red pilled your chances of picking the wrong woman and making grave mistakes on your part are already 10 times slimmer. Not to mention that by refusing marriage, you will get a woman who wants you and not the ring/status/wedding.

Personally I'm still divided on getting kids, but there's still time so we'll see.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's two ways of still achieving it man. One way is to have children out of wedlock and pay CS as date_rate says. This will take a bit of financial planning but it's viable. The other is to use a surrogate (after making sure all the paperwork is looked over by a lawyer) and raise the child(ren) yourself or with the help of a quality lady. Finding one who's sterile will help here

[–]zincH20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Get a Dominican chick. Young like 18-23 with no kids try to find one at a Catholic Church.

[–]floppymammarygland 16 points16 points [recovered]

I love when you hear a guy talk about getting 50% custody yet he stills pay child support.

Say what, motherfucker?

[–]Il128 6 points7 points  (6 children)

I have full custody of three of my four children. I pay 60% of my take home in child support. Think about that.

[–]floppymammarygland 2 points2 points [recovered]

Wtf?!?!?!? How does that even work?

[–]Il128 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Money. Her Aunt and Uncle are wealthy and financed her divorce. I spent 30k and was done. No more money for the divorce. They'd create paper storms week after week, dispositions of everybody including my boss and my employees at work. It just went on and on. They got the judge to believe I had hidden money, assets, the usual. So even thought the state only allows for 22% of your gross by law she got 46% of my gross or 60% of my net. Judges can do that.

[–]Appleseed12333 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I have to assume your BSing until a court case number is given or something. I just cant comprehend it.

[–]Il128 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You're asking me to dox myself? Dude...

[–]NeoreactionSafe 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Don't forget that grandma at 75 years old (or so) doesn't exactly have a lot of options.

Divorce Rape is most critical when a young couple marries and the woman still has some SMV left.

By the time a woman reaches 45 her sexual value is essentially zero as she has lost all of her fertility. No one wants old ladies.

The highly critical period when marriage would ideally be optimized with dread (Marriage 1.0) is when the woman is under 27 years old.

The worst case scenario is a 28 year old guy marrying a 24 year old girl and her having a child then divorce raping him just as the guy enters his prime a few years later.

When you get up into the 50's, 60's and 70's if a woman is still "in the game" to be a wife she already has built in dread because she is fully aware how low her SMV has fallen.

Most guys past 50 start to lose interest entirely in old ladies, but will still desire youth and fertility if only for sex. The 50 year old guy flirts with 30 year old women.

Marriage 1.0 protected men in their prime.

Marriage 2.0 is dangerous for young men, but okay if you are very old.

...at any age above 45 for women there cannot be child support (she's infertile) in a divorce, so unless there was a very wealthy lifestyle in the marriage you pretty much part ways and that's it.

Social Security becomes an issue too, so old people might choose to not marry for that reason.


[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 34 points35 points  (3 children)

We take care of each other and out of that comes love and a successful marriage. (They have been married for 32 years btw)

Yeah, that was two generations ago. Now she gets all the benefits legally enforced against you, and is still free to leave.

Your grandfather is still pretending that she loves him, even while agreeing that she's exploiting him (dripfeeding sex in exchange for provisioning).

While the observations are basically true, it's the beta life. And it's out of date. Marriage today is a fucked up deal for men, don't do it.

Don't think that the exchange of her sex for your provisioning results in a happy marriage, it doesn't. Marriage is her security (at your expense), your sex life is still your problem (and noone lets you cheat once they know you're married). It degenerates into "I know you've not had any for a month, and I'd just love to have sex with you but I'm so tired having to do the dishes all the time... if only there was a solution to that..."

Go across to the other reddit subs to see all this in action... "he thinks just because he married me and pays for everything he's entitled to monthly sex, the greedy shitlord!"

Don't think that TRP truths mean that you get a happy marriage based on exchange of value. It doesn't work like that.

[–]1cover20 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Now women mostly work too. So that makes it a better deal for the guy. Life may not be better, but that's because we're poorer overall, and his single life would be worse than for someone 30 years ago too.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And she did. They both are retired and both have a pension. He's pretty much the financial adviser of both of them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women spend something like double what men do of the money available to them.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

She makes sure our sex life is good

I'm sorry, but I hear about relationships failing all the time despite a guy pledging his commitment. Women don't feel obligated to give her provider sex. He has to earn it and her love on a daily basis, because she forgets about it on a daily basis. As soon as she starts feeling bad, whatever that specific bad feeling may be, she looks outward and blames it on the person closest. And as soon as someone else earns her love, she gets a free social pass because Chad was a better dude on day 534, despite the 533 days Roger was a great, nice guy. I don't doubt your grandpa is an awesome guy, but I think he's doing a lot of other things right, more than confirming the "contract" you talk about. Practically every guy does this and we still have a ridiculous feminized culture and rights-stripped manosphere. This idea of justice and balance and accountability in a relationship as a foundation of love is overwhelmingly absent in women.

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I never specified how a man earns a woman's love in a LTR, so yes, it has to been done correctly, obviously, which is counter intuitive to most guys. But to be clear, it means constantly improving your value as a human being, providing consistent leadership in the relationship, and keeping yourself and your mate accountable for all of her actions, which means her mistakes and betrayals have consequences. The idea of a business contract is a good way to think of it, but you have to avoid making covert contracts with yourself and crying when the terms are violated. I think we can agree it all comes down to being punished for injustice and actually treating a woman as an accountable human being.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Not sure if your grandfather was aware, but that's exactly what oxytocin does (along with vasopressin). They're the love chemicals responsible for pair-bonding. After a few years they diminish to almost nothing -- the median age in which the effects of this were documented was around 4 years. Unsurprisingly divorce rates start heavily climbing after this duration.

Your grandfather may not have been a learned man, but you can tell he was a wise one.

[–]Dustin_Bromain 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Do you have any sources on "pair-bonding"? I find it incredibly interesting.

[–]itsbooming 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The pair bonding effects of oxytocin are widely published but I'm interested in the 4 year thing. Deserves a post.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Pubmed article.

Divorce rate peaks at 5-9 years post-marriage.

I can't find the specific article that documents the declining trend of oxytocin, I'll update if I can locate it.

[–]red_gerb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I Concur. Darlrock had something on it. 10 years in, and here is the probabilities. perhaps the older your are, the wiser?


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Where I live is pretty common for young people to get in LTR's in their 18-20 years. However I noticed a very interesting pattern - most of these LTR end around the 6 year mark. Is almost always the woman who initiates the break up. I know about 25 couples who break up this way and only two of these break ups were initiated by the man.

I live in the southern europe so feminism is not a big thing here. Slut shaming is still strong especially in small cities so I guess this makes girls gravitate torwards LTR than riding the CC.

Anyway, I think oxytocin plays a role in these scenarios. Maybe it's a way of nature to force women get new genes?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's exactly what it is. Women are pair-bonded for a few years because the first few years of a child's life were historically the most vulnerable, for both child and mother. Evolution worked out such that cheating at around 5 years was a more optimal reproductive strategy for women than simply remaining pair-bonded to the same mate.

[–]tallwheel 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Lessons learned: Only spend time with women who still have the chemical dripping. Change women often, and do not, for the love of Jebus, get married. The exchange of goods isn't worth it, and the law only enforces your end of the deal.

[–]oldredpillhardmode -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Why does everyone keep blaming the law, women, etc... I thought part of TPR was taking responsibility for your own situation. You need to do a much better job of choosing a wife, and providing boundaries and control once married. I personally think guys who go through life without finding a great wife are the losers. There also seems to be a lot of unwillingness to take responsibility for having children. There are a lot of posts along the lines of, "Im getting screwed because I have kids". One word for you guys, CONDOM. Just because the women might try to talk me into bareback, I have morals and they are strong enough to not let a little pussy compromise them. I don't drop my seed unless I'm fully prepared to take care of the child for the next 18 yrs, all on my own. If you aren't willing to do that, put on a condom. If you are, quit complaining.

[–]tallwheel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I fail to see how your reply is at all relevant to what I wrote above. No where did I blame women, the law, or try to get out of responsibility. I am advocating taking control of one's life by choosing only to partake in the most fun stage of relationships - the infatuation/lust stage. Everyone has a right to choose who they want to associate with and when. No one owes anyone a relationship, marriage, or kids.

Your reply amounts to 'You guys need to man up, find a good woman to marry, and perform your genetic responsibility to procreate.' What a bunch of bullshit.

[–]its-iceman 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Grandpa coming through with some wisdom. You should go camping with that old fuck and take a notebook. Report back.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (1 child)

We didn't go camping but he did take me to Vegas for my 21st birthday and took me to my first strip club.

[–]Penguin327 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Lucky to have a grandpa like that.. I could count on one hand the amount of times I've met mine before

[–]anooblol 4 points5 points  (10 children)

Wait... grandfather ... 22 years ... My grandparents got married and had kids at 19. My parents had me at 26. I'm 20 now, and my parents have been married for 24 years. Something's not adding up.

[–]dickcomments 4 points5 points  (9 children)

Could be second wife, could have had children outside of the marriage before getting married.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (8 children)

That's correct. She is his second wife.

[–]L_T_R_P_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thought you were an infant

[–]sunfistkid 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's maybe why he knows that stuff, because he didn't the first go around?

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what I assumed when I read

I then ask "why did you get married?" He then replied Because we know how this game works.

They both knew the deal before they sealed it.

[–]Planner_Hammish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My dad calls his second wife his finishing wife.

[–]oldredpillhardmode 0 points1 point  (3 children)

He wasn't all that TRP if his first marriage failed and he remarried. Glad it worked out the second time but I wouldn't say he's all alpha. More likely his second wife is more RPW.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

He actually cheated on his first wife with his current wife lol

[–]oldredpillhardmode 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Maybe that has something to do with the need for a second wife. Didn't he break a commitment to his first wife by cheating?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He did but his ex was a complete bitch. Telling him what he needed to do to make her happy, made him buy her things to prove his love etc. the circumstances were justified

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children)

But, however, when she becomes secured and settled ... that chemical slowly stops dripping

And this is why dread game is so important in any LTR, especially marriage. A little relationship insecurity will get that chemical dripping again.

[–]Date_Rate 17 points18 points  (3 children)

There's no dread in marriage. You're not just up against her. You're up against the law, police forces and a penal system.

[–]DanG3 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Unless (she thinks) you are Captain Jack Sparrow crazy. In which case she will either spread her legs and fuck your brains out, or "let you go" until your next plate "helps" her see the error in her thinking.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

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[–]oldredpillhardmode 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Does it matter as long as both of you are happy? It's probably a combination of the two. I know my wife is crazy about me and she also thinks Im a little unpredictable and "crazy" which is good because it keeps her from becoming bored with the security and comfort I provide. I always keep things exciting for her. For instance I call her from work on Friday and tell her to "pack for a 3 day weekend and be ready for the limo to pick her up at 5:00pm, we are going to Vegas for the weekend." Keeps her from getting bored and looking for some excitement outside of the marriage. Bottom line is she is so damn busy keeping up with my excitement she has 0 time to think about anything else.

[–]1cover20 2 points3 points  (5 children)

32 years and he's your grandfather? They had one of your parents right at the beginning of that (if not earlier!) and your parents had you very young, and you must be at least 14 to be posting here like this.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Shit, meant to type 22 years

[–]RPmatrix 9 points10 points  (3 children)

even worse!? How can he have been married for 22yrs AND have 'adult children WITH Adult children?'

[–]jerkMEthenMERKme 2 points3 points  (0 children)

At least your grandfather understands that he's fucked

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have a theory.

Men: Fed, Fucked and Appreciated Women: Attention, Validation and Resources

When both sides needs are meet by the other you tend to have a good thing.

[–]1cover20 7 points8 points  (12 children)

Married 20 years here. That's about right. Women are more aggressive now and act out more on their narcissism, because I guess that's the culture. But a guy can still get a deal like that.

It's the deal that has created western civilization.

[–]Date_Rate 23 points24 points  (11 children)

No it's not lol. Agriculture, democracy, the industrial revolution and capitalism created western civilization.

Marriage was intended to stabilize stuff because in a free polygamous society, 16/17 men (as evidenced by historical DNA analysis) will end up without any sex and will either start waging war or stop working all together. The reason we have marriage is so men's productivity can be maximized.

[–]JeffsRP 5 points6 points  (2 children)

in a free polygamous society, 16/17 men (as evidenced by historical DNA analysis)

This interests me. Got a source please?

[–]Date_Rate 9 points10 points  (1 child)

[–]Dustin_Bromain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

17 to 1? Holy shit. That is depressing.

[–]DanG3 -2 points-1 points  (7 children)

'Marriage was intended to stabilize stuff because in a free polygamous society [best Alpha gets all the vagina?], 16 of 17 men (as evidenced by historical DNA analysis) will end up without ANY sex and will either start waging war [fights among the lesser Alphas?) or stop working all together [depressed betas wishing for death?]. The reason we have marriage is so men's productivity can be maximized." [providing for comfort and CHOICES (of Alphas vs betas) for women - at various time of their life/month?]

Marriage is a ill-conceived feminine institution designed to give women what they (think) they "want" - at a particular time in their life / month. If we took away marriage, women would be HAPPLY trying to please WORTHY men to lock/keep them down - AND making themselves "happy" in the process.

[–]Joseph_the_Carpenter 1 point2 points  (5 children)

If we took away marriage, women would be HAPPLY trying to please WORTHY men to lock/keep them down - AND making themselves "happy" in the process.

This is true for M2.0 but wasn't always the case. Women don't need marriage to keep a man around; they have sex for that. Marriage was intended to keep the woman in line. Now that it doesn't do that it serves no purpose.

[–]BradPill 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Marriage serves both: the man gets regular sex (at least, that was the premise/promise), doesn't kill other men for pussy and focuses on advancing his family - and society. The woman gets off-spring in a secure setting and doesn't have to offer herself to different Alpha's (I suppose that is what happened in the cave-days), raising kids, advancing society.
It was a very clever, mutually beneficial construct.

[–]stawek 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It was mutually beneficial in environment of poverty. Woman needed a man to get her food.

Nowadays woman needs no food from man, so marriage is her giving up Chads in exchange for nothing.

Remove taxes and wealth redistribution and women will get back in line instantly, when they no longer get free stuff from Daddy Sam.

[–]BradPill 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Working women/single mothers pay for their own food. The problems start when HS-girls get financially supported and motivated/stimulated to have/keep the child - not graduating, severely limiting their options for getting a job. Birth-control and abortion should be mandatory, no kids before age 25. I'm sure only Trump agrees.

[–]stawek 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Working women usually work in useless jobs that only exist as a result of big government. Accounts, HR, hugely overstaffed healthcare, education and such are worthless jobs that bring nothing to the economy.

[–]HS-Thompson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women don't need marriage to keep a man around; they have sex for that.

In the era before birth control, sex was very very expensive for women.

[–]RPmatrix -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Marriage is a ill-conceived feminine institution

no it's not! Marriage is a Patriarchal construct designed to manage and control people

If we took away marriage, women would be HAPPLY trying to please WORTHY men to lock/keep them down

and you figure this how?

[–]Pastelitomaracucho 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I guess I will never marry again. I love that "chemical that drips" way too much.

Having been married, I 100% concur with the OP's grandpa. Except for the sex part. My ex did not give a fuck if our sex life was good or not, but she was happy with the stability.

I have another theory, brought with one of my dad's friends, a kind of post-modern Quagmire:

"Marriage and long term relationships should be like leasing: renting a car leaves little strings that attach you, but is also expensive. You can always have the nicest sports car for a few days, but in the end you don't need it. When you buy a car you look for something reliable, maybe not as exciting, with a few years of driving your sober sedan you will look upon the others driving the fun sports cars. A lease its the perfect balance: not as expensive, allows you to enjoy the ride and as soon as you are bored with the car in a few years, you can upgrade to the next one".

He is clear that passion and romantic love last only a few years. This is something scientifically proven. He is also clear that once passion has worn out, its just better to move the fuck on and find someone new again.

I live by his example.

[–]oldredpillhardmode 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He is clear that passion and romantic love last only a few years. This is something scientifically proven.

Do you have a reference for that? I completely disagree with your post. Since Im living proof that passion and romance can last much longer that a few years. Marriage takes work. PAssion and romance don't just happen. You have to put effort into the relationship to get something out of it. You can't be a passive participant and expect to get a positive return on any relationship, especially marriage. Im beginning to feel like many of the TRP guys on this sub don't expect to put any effort into their relationships, they should just happen and everything should be wonderful. I see it much like a job. the vast majority of people go to work, do the minimum level of work and then complain that they don't get raises or satisfaction from their job. Duh... You have to put effort into the job before the job returns satisfaction. You have to put effort into a relationship if you expect to get something good out of it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, my grandfather has been married over 50 years I think, albeit that's his second marriage. He probably married a party girl early on but then found one that knew the game too later on.

[–]Gawernator 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Nice. I wish I talked to my grandfather more before he passed a couple years ago. They were married for 50+ years.

[–]Easih 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it is mistake to even think that long marriage =happiness ; lot people stay in Unhappy marriage; specially the older generation where long marriage were common.

[–]Capt-n 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So trick is to not give a damn about sex.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Hi, I'm new here, I want to ask a question without implying anything. OP seems to suggest that women don't care about sex? Is this a belief generally shared in this community?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Women do care about sex but when it comes to their sexuality, it becomes more of a bargaining chip to the relationship. The man wants sex and the women wants commitment. However, this does not apply to all relationships and marriages, it's just what the majority have observed. Women enjoy sex as much as men do but they have the power to sleep with whom ever they want or choose. I believe it's more of an ego stroke for the woman when it comes to sex. But yes, women love/care about sex.

[–]1mr_nate_ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

God damn dude, old people always know their shit. They look past the bullshit that they've been fed and expected all of their life and tell it how it really is.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–]SwagYoloJesus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She knows you want sex and he knows she wants a commitment. And that's marriage my boy, an exchange in goods and services.

He has shit figured out down to the exact terminology we, too, use. Cool guy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is known as a "type 1 marriage."

[–]EmDeeEx14 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Though I think this has been appearant for a while, it's good to have the idea fortified in mind. The problem today however, is that many women want their cake as well as to eat it. Usually culminated in cucking their husband in exchange for a new shiny cock.

Sad but true

[–]CuntyMcFagNuts69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's crazy, I've seen my grandfather go from red pill to blue pill over the years. Growing up he always had a beer in his hand, tobacco in his pipe, glass always full, food on his plate. My grandma loved that man and made sure the house was spotless.

Fast forward 20 years, she tells him no all the time, he caters to all her wants, she calls him stupid. No one is safe

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Marriage means you found a hooker that you like, and she's willing to settle down with one client. A wife is a just a one-client hooker.

That's how God himself intended it to be.

[–]garlicextract[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because we know how this game works. She makes sure our sex life is good and makes sure I have food in my stomach and she knows that I am a good provider and will care and love her for the rest of her days.

good luck finding that in 2015 (or the foreseeable future)

[–]pedre123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's just mind blowing how things have changed for the average American man from even the 1900s compared to the 2000s.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this is gold, both people have to have some value, can't just leech off each other. But I read some comments and realized marriage these days are highly favored for women, one on the count that the court and the laws established may be gender biased, second knowing that a woman can go sane and insane at a moments notice.

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