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Red Pill TheoryDooble's guide to taking women off of a pedestal. Part 1: being hot is not impressive. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by KingDooble

This is the first part in a several step series to teach men how to take women off a pedestal. I welcome any thoughts, suggestions, comments, criticisms, etc...

This post makes a very simple point: being hot is not impressive.

Our society feeds men and women several terrible lies, including:

1) A woman’s value is in her appearance. If she’s hot, she has high value and does not need anything else. If she’s ugly, she has no value and should just go die.

2) A man’s value consists in obtaining hot women. A man who fucks hot women is a high-value “alpha” while a man who fucks ugly women is a low-value “beta.”

3) Having sex or being in a relationship with a beautiful woman is the highest and most important pleasure in life.

Let’s start with lie #3.

It is true that sex is one of our strongest desires, and obviously sex with a beautiful woman is better than sex with an ugly woman, all else being equal. But sex is just one pleasure among many. A well-rounded life would include good friends, good food, good wine, fun hobbies, a fulfilling work life, a good family, intelligent conversation, etc...You should think of good sex as equivalent to watching a nice sunset while having a glass of wine.

Unfortunately, our society teaches us that sex is THE MOST IMPORTANT pleasure and we should sacrifice everything and anything to it, even our dignity. In movies, the “hot” woman is idolized and treated like this other-worldly angel and the hero’s “prize” for defeating the bad guy is often the woman. In these movies the hot woman is never a bitch or a scheming asshole but rather an angel who can do no wrong.

The repeated messages from pop culture idolizing hot women has created a cathexis in the minds of many men. “Cathexis” is a term in psychology that means “unhealthy obsession on a particular person or object.” Most men hit puberty at around 12 or 13 (they can recognize a beautiful woman even before then), but they can’t start getting laid on a regular basis until at least 19 or 20. So from ages 11 to 20, they pop culture depictions of beautiful women and build up a crazy desire for them. Some boys resort to things like porn, but that only builds up the cathexis more. By the time they get to the age where they can actually date and have sex, they have already built a mental image of women that is completely removed from reality.

You can see this pedestalization everywhere. A lot of men think that the pinnacle of “success” in life is being with a hot woman and they will respect other men more if they see them with hot women. In fact, many men date hot women who are complete pieces of shit and make them miserable just for the respect and admiration they get from other men (which if you really think about it, is pretty gay). It even leaks into our jokes. How many times have you heard men jokingly say things like “dude that girl is so hot, I would eat her poop for cereal if I could bang her.” Even though that’s a joke, it reveals an important truth about how men think: the goal of life is to bang hot women and one should sacrifice everything for that goal.

Moving on to lie #2, the worst part of this cathexis is that it associates a man’s own value with the women he bangs. So a man’s desire to bang hot women becomes intimately tied up with his ego – now his 2 strongest desires, sex and ego, are pointed at the same thing. This is worsened by women’s hypergamy: women will only bang men they see as “above” them, so many men are often rejected by women. The problem with hypergamy is that is irrational and based on appearances, so women will not bang the guy that is ACTUALLY above them or a winner, but whoever APPEARS to be above them or a winner. That’s why women often end up with losers like rappers or “bad boys” or guys with a lot of fake confidence rather than guys that are actually successful (think, like, a humble accountant).

It is natural for men, or anybody, to feel hurt when rejected. But instead of realizing that women’s hypergamy is irrational and based on appearances, a lot of men develop an inferiority complex and subconsciously make it their life’s mission to have beautiful women fuck them. I am in my 30s and it’s very interesting that the cool, confident “alpha” guys from my youth who got laid all the time are now mostly happily married with children. It’s the guys that were not “cool” in high school and got rejected by women that are now running around trying to bang hot girls in their 30s.

This is what young redpillers need to learn: your value as a man has nothing to do with whether hot girls like you. A lot of really awesome guys can’t get laid to save their life, and a lot of complete losers bang hot women on the regular. You see, banging hot women is a skill a man can develop like any other skill. All you need to do is to buy a nice, creative outfit, put yourself in the right situations, and listen to a few Patrice O’neal videos. And bam! You’re in. But that doesn’t mean that you’re actually a better guy any more than somebody who is good tennis isn’t necessarily “better” than anybody else.

Now there are some situations where women’s hypergamy is “correct.” For example, women like guys with jobs who make money. If you don’t have a job or make money, you should get a job, not because women like that, but because, as a man, you should have a good job so you can have a good life. Women don’t like fat slobs you never exercise. As a man you should exercise and not be a fat slob. Not to get women, but because a fat slob is unhealthy and makes you feel like shit. But women’s hypergamy is oftentimes wrong. A lot of hot women in their early 20s get addicted to the club scene and going out, doing coke or molly, and dancing all night. The club scene is also full of creepy older guys, dudes who were losers in high school, but now have jobs and money, and they buy tables and bottle services, and even sometimes take these women on vacations or boats or whatever. Some of these guys get laid occasionally from doing this stuff, but they’re still the same fucking losers they always were. They are basically buying higher class prostitutes and are super miserable.

I will admit that I was one of these losers. For a variety of reasons, I got rejected by girls when I was in high school and college. By my mid-20s I had gotten it together: I was more confident, dressed better, and most importantly, I had a nice job and I made money. I also was tapped into the PUA scene so I learned a lot of knowledge. And I went on a tear, banging girls that would have rejected me a few years earlier. Since then, I have conquered some pretty amazing creatures, but now the thrill is gone. I now realize that my motivation was not to bang hot girls, but to heal my wounded ego. And now it has been healed. I know I can get hot girls now, so they have lost their “magic” for me. Mind you, I will look at a hot girl’s ass if she walks by and I would still enjoy banging her, but I don’t have that obsession or need to do it anymore. I would much rather have a 7 that was fun to hang out with and gave me less problems, than a 9 that was a flaky bitch. For a while I was stuck on 7s and couldn’t make it to 8-9s, and I idolized 8-9s like they were my entrance into manhood. But once I broke through I realized that there is nothing special about being an 8 or a 9. It’s all in guy’s minds. Once you free yourself from that mental block, you now realize 8-9s for what they are: slightly better looking versions of 7. And you can take that power away from them.

Moving onto lie #1. This is the most important part of the essay. Being hot is NOT IMPRESSIVE.

Part of the reason hot girls are “magic” to men is that we are biologically wired to be attracted to certain things: big tits, symmetric faces, good skin, etc... So our brains place an “aura” around hot women that doesn’t actually exist to attract us to them. Because we don’t understand that this aura is a biological trick, our brain starts to think crazy things like this is our “soulmate” or this girl is “perfect” or she is an “angel” or any of that bullshit. We even overlook her shitty personality or other weird traits because she is hot. But the reality is that this aura is completely irrational and like I said, a 7 is just as good, and even better, because a 7 will coexist alongside your other pleasures and not consume your life like many 8s or 9s will.

There are a few reasons why being hot is not impressive.

1) It doesn’t take very much work. Most hot girls are hot because of genetics and because they came from families that valued eating well and exercise. Staying hot requires some maintenance (exercise, eating well, etc...), but that maintenance is pretty easy when you compare it to other challenges in life (for example, passing the bar exam). The average amount of work a lawyer, accountant, or construction worker puts into their job is much, much more than a woman staying pretty. The reason some women aren’t hot is because their early upbringing (genetics and family) fucked them over and now they have a complex where they feel like they can never be hot. Just like you wouldn’t give a guy a prize for not getting fat, you shouldn’t give women a prize for the same thing.

2) Most of being “hot” is a temporary illusion created by make-up, clothes, hair, etc... You see that hot girl at the club with amazing tits? Well, the reason you are probably noticing her amazing tits is because she knows she has nice tits and she is wearing an outfit to emphasize them. You aren’t noticing her flat ass because she knows that is a weakness and she is wearing an outfit to de-emphasize that. You see, women know exactly what their strengths and weaknesses are, and they choose an outfit and stuff to emphasize those things. Part of the reason hot women don’t respect men who put them on a pedestal is because they know that what they are selling is largely fake. Being hot is also incredibly temporary. That hot girl you are admiring could look like a complete piece of shit in 6 months if she catches a bout of depression and gets fat and/or sick. And of course, once a woman hits about 35 its all over, period.

3) Hot girls just do not have high market value. There are too many of them and not enough guys. You may not think so because you rarely see hot girls, but if you go somewhere hot girls congregate (Miami, LA, etc...) you will see that the market is flooded with pussy with not enough buyers. Now obviously the ratio of men to women is about 50-50 in the world, and there are tons of men that would love to fuck these hot girls, but the reality is that all women are hypergamous so their market preference is basically limited to men that are “better” than them. If they are with a man who is lower than them it is basically a stepping stone or waiting period until they find a man they REALLY like. And the reality is that there are just enough men that are “better” than these hordes of hot women.

Why is that? It’s a long, complicated answer, but the short answer is that because of feminism and a lot of other things men are falling behind women in terms of education, income, and social development. Because boys are naturally conquerors they need intense discipline to become productive in society, and most parents do not know how to do that anymore. Girls are more submissive naturally and are more likely to succeed in school and get good jobs. Even in the underclass, women are less likely to be violent, crazy, etc... Colleges are about 57% women now and these women go onto get better jobs than the men who never went to college. Those men are also more likely to have criminal records, be socially stunted in some way, etc... These educated women simply cannot find men that are better than them.

The same issue exists for uneducated, hot women. Men in the lowerclass world are much more likely to be violent, crazy, undisciplined, and unemployable than women in that world. In addition, most men lose their minds and become beta when they get in the presence of hot women, immediately disqualifying them. So the end result is that there are simply not enough men for women. There are tons of men in basements and MGOTW forums, but these men are not even an option for these women.


[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 59 points60 points  (0 children)

I now realize that my motivation was not to bang hot girls, but to heal my wounded ego.

You found the layer below. Hard to see when you're young and pussy crazy. And filling holes can't quench the thirst that stems from lacking a worthy mission that channels a masculine drive.

[–]Exogyra_Ponderosa 148 points149 points  (9 children)

For every hot girl out there, there's a man tired of fucking her.

[–]KingDooble[S] 121 points122 points  (5 children)

Here is a corollary to that:

Every hot girl has had a moment when she was in the hottest woman in the room, and then a hotter woman walked in, and she saw everybody's attention quickly shift. And that's when she realized that being hot ain't shit.

[–]Endorsed ContributorObio1 14 points15 points  (2 children)

And every guy over the age of 30 knows exactly how long that beauty lasts. The older you get the more ridiculous beauty is: It lasts for a few years, tops. Any girl who thinks she's hot shit simply doesn't understand the math. Let her have her moment. You'll still be tapping girls that hot 10 years from now -- probably hotter, if your career is on the right path. She, on the other hand won't be getting anywhere near the same attention.

[–]pavista 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You'd think women would rush to take advantage of this. But I do think when they're hot at a young age they just assume there is something inherently special about them that will never go away.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

girls aren't introspective that way, she just sees a bitch that has to go down.

[–]1lurkingtacopiller 9 points10 points  (1 child)

And that man who is tired of fucking her has the attention of every other girl if he wants it, because of the social proof of being seen with said hot girl. Once it hits you that getting one hot girl leads very easily to getting another, they quickly lose their luster.

[–]Wish_I_Was_Savvy 65 points66 points  (32 children)

How many guys do you think are able to repair there wounded ego from there youth? I feel like most guys are never able to accomplish this. I struggle with this my self being 25, I see no end in sight.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (1 child)

plenty do, 25 is super young mate. Look to present/future and don't waste any more time fretting about the past you cannot change. The best part about moving into the future as your better self is that people you meet know NOTHING about your past. In the end, it's just you holding yourself back mentally. Just hang in there

[–]pavista 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think plenty of men repair it, but when they transcend do they really self actualize that part about themselves? I'm not so sure, I never did. Because once you've seen both sides its very hard to 'unsee' how the relatively unattractive man is treated. Thats quite fine, I think it gives you perspective.

[–]Date_Rate 29 points30 points  (18 children)

At 24 it got better. A lot. It's been almost a year since TRP, and although I didn't achieve really any fitness goals in that year, my confidence, social skills and general happiness skyrocketed. Mind you I'm still an introvert, but happy with it and I make some effort to be outgoing when I want to.

As to my sexual history, my number of partners at age 22 was a grand total of 1. At 23 I managed to double it to 2. Aged 24 now, I'm in double digits (although barely).

A lot of talk around here is that having sex with girls shouldn't matter and there are more respectable things to do like lifting and work and travel or whatever. But the truth is it does matter. It matters a lot. When I started to get laid more often and - for the first time in my life - started getting partners who came back just for sex, it did wonders for my self esteem. What I have I wouldn't call abundance, but I am comfortable with both FWB and the occasional ONS.

What it did is free me. It feels like some important part is secure, and I can truly focus on other things without pretending they are more important. Saying sex doesn't matter when you get at least a decent amount of it is like saying money doesn't matter if you manage to pay all your bills comfortability.

So yes, I feel like my ego has healed by increasing my partner count. TRP became a framework for other aspects of my life as well, but this was the most important aspect without a doubt.

[–]ScarletFever82 36 points37 points  (9 children)

There is nothing less attractive than an introvert with low self confidence, but on the bright side, there is nothing more attractive than a introvert with high self confidence.

Women worth a shit are highly drawn to deeply intellectual men, free thinking males that don't give a fuck about social norms. Guys that don't follow trends, don't seek attention, and process their own thoughts. Being a leader has nothing to do with extroversion, and Introverts don't follow, period. Introverts that can break through the small talk and get to the heart and minds of the people they socialize with fucking own, because they can capture your heart in a few minutes, without showing any attachment, and walk away careless if they ever see you again. Women go home wet from that shit.

[–]avatarrangg 7 points7 points [recovered]

Wonderfully stated! This reminds me of how many introverted and introspective officers in the military often A. Don't do very well as leaders 1-2/10, or B: are amongst the top-tier of leaders 8-10/10. Extraverts account for the majority of military leadership 3-7/10, but often times, extroverts simply do not have the inner will and analysis to become top-tier.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

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[–]ScarletFever82 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Eisenhower, Patton, Lincoln, dare I say Hitler.

[–]cashmoney_x 5 points6 points  (1 child)

You obviously never played beer pong with Hitler.

[–]T0000009 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well... Uhh... Last time I did we started a fucking fire in the Reichstag and it burned to the ground.

[–]avatarrangg 1 points1 points [recovered]

My good buddy is a midshipman, and they had them take a personality test their plebe year to classify them. He scored the rarest personality for a midshipman, which consists of deep introspection and introversion, while most midshipmen score as extraverts with high charisma.

The personality that my buddy scored, has historically been the personalities that drop most often from the Naval Academy. However, those with his personalities that do make it to become officers, almost always usually wind up being an O-8 and above. While very rarely, do the personalities with extraversion make it past the O-7 rank in the Navy.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

It feels like some important part is secure, and I can truly focus on other things without pretending they are more important. Saying sex doesn't matter when you get at least a decent amount of it is like saying money doesn't matter if you manage to pay all your bills comfortability. so much this. I cant get women (23yo virgin) so i just try to focus on obtaining things i can get, but lack of sex is always somewhere back in my head filling up space that could be used much better.

[–]Date_Rate 2 points3 points  (2 children)

any reason you can think of as to why you haven't managed to have sex yet?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

i discovered TRP some 3 weeks ago so before that i was a basket case "BP nice guy raised by single mother". Moreover im introvert af which doesnt help at all. Before trp i had found some PUA shit so i wasnt entirely clueless but even though theoretically i know what to do, im "repulsed" by it because it seems to me "having game"=="being a fucking clown". Im not willing to do that or only when drunk. Im graduating a college in summer so when i get a job i will just go to hookers. I even found TRP when searching if i should lose virginity with hooker :)

[–]allekskennith 3 points3 points [recovered]

Sex is fun but it lasts 5 min to an hour of flopping around and getting sweaty and then when it's over you have all of these feelings you have to shut off or you'll become attached and the woman will likely use that opportunity to try and get you attached. It's not all fun and magical like a lot of people make it out to be. Most of the time the woman can't even do sex well and she'll just bore you because your hand is so much better. As far as an accomplishment goes sex does give you a feeling of accomplishment but courting them is a serious investment of time and energy and you can get better feelings of accomplishment from your own hobbies and interests because all sex leaves you with is memories and wanting to do it again and your brain will play terrible tricks to get you to do it again (becoming emotionally attached, doing favors for the women, etc). This can quickly lead to you being rejected by the woman for acting clingy so just stop giving a fuck as soon as it's over. Sex is a dangerous and limited reward activity. It's really not as awesome as we've been made to believe, it goes along the point of this post that having sex with hot women is theoat important thing, it's not.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

The problem is you guys don't eat enough girls' poop for breakfast and thus have low thresholds of pain tolerance / willpower.

[–]Troll_Name 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The book 1984 explains this concept:

By creating eternal war, the government created eternal shortages. Through shortages, they created a society where even the tiniest scrap of food will be fought over - that's how sex works in modern society. By making sex seem impossible to get unless you were BORN to get it, sex becomes that much more valuable.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

[–]denart4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Part of taking the red pill is letting go of your ego.

[–]JMCastillo86 0 points1 point  (1 child)

i struggle with my broken ego everyday. I too see no end in sight.

[–]jaimewarlock 1 points1 points [recovered]

My wounded ego wasn't healed until I started going to 3rd world countries to meet girls. This is why I push foreign travel so much for the younger guys.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How many guys do you think are able to repair there wounded ego from there youth?

If you're not a shit tier man, then you won't be repairing anything, but too busy building a better life moving forward

[–]Themooseconnection 82 points83 points  (14 children)

I'm unimpressed by women's looks. Giving a women compliments on their looks is the same as complimenting a guy being born tall. Yeah sure it's better but what did they do to accomplish it? Nothing and they know it.

I always reward my plates/ltr for doing things within their control. Exercising, cooking, wearing nice clothes, having interesting hobbies etc

[–]psyEDk 37 points38 points  (5 children)

I always reward my plates/ltr for doing things within their control. Exercising, cooking, wearing nice clothes, having interesting hobbies etc

That's a really clever approach man. Reward effort.

[–]1v1mebruh 21 points22 points  (1 child)

honestly just think of training women as training dogs; reward good behavior, dont allow bad behavior, and dont reward unnecessarily. a lot of people have trouble with this analogy because they're like "oh you're so awful, women aren't dogs!" well no shit they aren't, but training any person or animal's habits is pretty much the same exact process, even other men and children. just think about it.

[–]1lurkingtacopiller 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"Aww honey, that was the best blowjob you've given me all month!" Then you reward her with some cuddling. Nothing works better to get her happy, and in a mood to do more shit for you (cooking, cleaning, fucking, etc.).

[–]ShounenEgo 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Also a good approach to raise a child, if you think about it. It's the separation between "wow, you're smart" and "wow, you sure studied hard".

[–]Alkura -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You don't wanna go with me to the mall? Would you do it for scooby snackis woman?

[–]JollyO 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I ate my vegetables to get tall, mate. That was a trial of strength when i was 6

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate a nice ass more than a nice set of tits.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree with the reward system. If a women behaves well I reward her with attention if she behaves poorly then I walk away.

[–]letigre21 28 points28 points [recovered]

I think one of the reasons men see banging hot women as one of the most important things in life is because they know that their desire for sex and intimacy is one of their most basic. By not fulfilling this desire to a high degree, they feel like failures as men, which I think ultimately is every man's biggest fear.

[–]silent_protector 13 points13 points [recovered]

This is a good post, as a beginner I find myself treating hot girls differently than other girls sometimes and wonder why only the 6s and below (who i obviously don't want to get with) like me

[–]psyEDk 14 points15 points  (2 children)

To quote op:

women are hypergamous so their market preference is basically limited to men that are “better” than them.

Might consider some personal development to up your SMV bro.

[–]silent_protector 9 points9 points [recovered]

yea i've been working on that, but I know i am high enough SMV to get at least decent girls because well, I do sometimes when I don't act stupid

[–]psyEDk 14 points15 points  (0 children)

We're all gonna make it brah 😊

[–]Fetish_Goth 12 points12 points [recovered]

Conventionally hot chicks are usually pretty boring in bed. They have never had to try. I'll take the weird looking girls with a huge pile of fetishes and enthusiasm to match.

[–]T0000009 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Same here..... Same experience too, really fine chicks just fucking lay there and are barely present.

[–]Endorsed Contributoralways-be-closing 35 points36 points  (2 children)

The instinct people have to treat attractive women well comes from nothing but the fact that their physical attractiveness is an indication and material result of them being good reproductive material; the slim waist, wide hips, firm butt, large breasts, etc. all scream "can bear and nourish children" and that's why we want to fuck it.

Daddy will treat her nice because she's his little girl to protect from the world and find a good husband for.

Mommy will treat her nice because she's the little angel that makes Mommy look so much better by reminding Daddy how lucky he was, and is basically a little version of her.

Brothers will treat her nice because they don't want just any schlub getting into the family.

Men will treat her nice because they want to fuck her or be validated by her.

Women, as it happens, will treat her like shit behind her back or be catty because they're envious of her looks and jealous of their own reproductive options.

etc.

Anything beyond common courtesy and decency that above average women get is being given to them for free by supplicative people who haven't put two and two together and realized that they don't merit it:

They're not reproducing in their prime and raising strong children or anything. The social celebrity status is unmerited.

A core part of abundance mentality is realizing that you don't have to do anything to coddle, praise, and otherwise provide for a girl who isn't even simulating the reproductive process with you.

[–]the_Milkweed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The answer to this problem is self-awareness. To know and apply this knowledge means you treat them as more than humans, rather than just animals.

If somehow we all were taught at a young age how animal we are, we could actually take steps moving away from treating others like this. You're validation/judgement would need to come from actions, rather than our feelz. Logic is the answer, just good luck getting there.

[–]jaynort 22 points23 points  (1 child)

This is a beautiful post and I would like to frame it. None of the angry name calling bullshit and none of the seething undercurrent of insecurity hiding behind a lot of the shit that gets posted. This post is pure gold and should be fully understood by anyone attempting to climb out of the hole they've dug for themselves by elevating attractive women to an undeserved status in their own head. Myself included.

[–]JohnnyFriendzone 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It lacks that exaggerated self praise that reveals lack of emotional independence, it's difficult to understand because as OP said, you never really get over hot girls until you get some and realize they are not the holy grail you thought they would be.

[–]lnTheRearWithTheGear 7 points7 points [recovered]

Hmmm... this is interesting read and makes me feel a little more self-assured about the woman I'm dating. She is post wall and probably a 5. Part of me hates it because TRP says I'm doing things wrong. The other part of me loves the fact that I'm with a woman who feeds my ego, is submissive, has no boundaries in bed, shares a lot of common interests, isn't codependent, and encourages me to develop my masculinity.

I have fucked hotter women, but compared to the low maintenance, sex crazed, sensible woman I'm with now... I dunno man. I'm learning that looks are less important than personality.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You do you. Everyone has their own goals for in life.

[–]mensafloyd 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Excellent Post!

The one thing that is a annoying about blue/purple pill guys is how they think "hawt" women have superior genes. They do not! They have superior hair styling and makeup application skills and maybe an above average diet/work-out regiment. These same guys are willing to put a premium on these women that invest in bolt-ons! This far from superior genes. Realizing this is step #1 of taking pussy off of the pedestal!

When you confuse use of eye shadow and mascara as a foundation for good genes, you're probably going to have an autistic child! <wink>

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_HOTWIFE 11 points11 points [recovered]

You misunderstand multiple things, including

hypergamy is irrational and based on appearances

and

For example, women like guys with jobs who make money.

No, women like guys who have drive, ambition, passion. Sometimes that shows up in the form of being a broke-ass musician who is "working on his music." Sometimes it shows up in the form of a broke-ass entrepreneur chasing his dream. Sometimes it shows up in the form of a guy who makes money because he works hard due to that drive.

It is about the masculine energy, not the money.

As for the other point, no, hypergamy is not irrational. You saying that just shows you fail to understand women's true motivations.

Everything has a rationale behind it, even things like smoking, doing drugs, gambling one's money away, smoking crack, etc. That rationale may come at a heavy price but there is a very strong rationale behind it.

When women are attracted to a guy that you, OP, think they shouldn't be, you call it irrational because you fail to understand what it is about that guy that the woman or women are attracted to.

Once you understand what it is they are actually attracted to, then you will understand women, at least in the way you're talking about.

[–]KingDooble[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

No, women like guys who have drive, ambition, passion. Sometimes that shows up in the form of being a broke-ass musician who is "working on his music." Sometimes it shows up in the form of a broke-ass entrepreneur chasing his dream. Sometimes it shows up in the form of a guy who makes money because he works hard due to that drive.

I don't disagree with that. The point I was making, that you missed, is that you can't judge your own value by the things women like, because sometimes women like stupid things.

As for the other point, no, hypergamy is not irrational. You saying that just shows you fail to understand women's true motivations.

Hypergamy is by definition irrational because it is an emotion and emotions are often shitty guides to good things. For example, a stupid "hypergamous" woman would pick an NBA player over an investment banker, but the reality is that the investment banker is a better long term investment.

Everything has a rationale behind it, even things like smoking, doing drugs, gambling one's money away, smoking crack, etc. That rationale may come at a heavy price but there is a very strong rationale behind it.

You don't seem to mixing up the words "rationale" and "rational." Rationale means "reason" whereas "rational", at least in the way I am using it, means "logical and based in reality." Of course everything women want is for a reason, sometimes that reason is stupid.

When women are attracted to a guy that you, OP, think they shouldn't be, you call it irrational because you fail to understand what it is about that guy that the woman or women are attracted to.

Do you realize how stupid your argument is? You're basically arguing that women never like guys for stupid reasons. That's just empirically false.

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_HOTWIFE 2 points2 points [recovered]

The point I was making, that you missed, is that you can't judge your own value by the things women like, because sometimes women like stupid things.

I didn't miss your point. Your point was wrong. The things they like are not stupid. In YOUR view they are stupid and this is why you miss the need that women are trying to get met by using the various ways you view as "stupid."

Hypergamy is by definition irrational because it is an emotion

Wrong again. Hypergamy is not an emotion; it is a practice. Get your shit together.

You don't seem to mixing up the words "rationale" and "rational."

  1. Your words are mixed up. What the fuck are you trying to say?

  2. You're right; I didn't mix them up. As I said, there is a RATIONALE behind something. That reason is never, as you mistakenly think, "stupid." (You: "Of course everything women want is for a reason, sometimes that reason is stupid. ") Again, wrong. See above.

Do you realize how stupid your argument is? You're basically arguing that women never like guys for stupid reasons.

Again, you're quadruply wrong. The facts aren't "stupid," nor are they "my argument." I'm not arguing that women never like guys for stupid reasons. I stated very plainly that women go for guys in order get certain needs met. That may not meet other needs, but it certainly isn't "stupid" or "illogical."

Son, you need to open your mind and not your mouth, or you will learn nothing and stay stuck where you are.

[–]KingDooble[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didn't miss your point. Your point was wrong. The things they like are not stupid. In YOUR view they are stupid and this is why you miss the need that women are trying to get met by using the various ways you view as "stupid."

I disagree.

Some women like tough "gangster" like guys because they look and sound tough. But those guys are pieces of shit and losers in the grand scheme of society. Sometimes men like stupid things too. I'm sorry but I'm not a moral relatavist. I think some qualities are shitty and you're stupid if you're turned on by them. Period.

Wrong again. Hypergamy is not an emotion; it is a practice. Get your shit together.

What are you even saying? Where do you think hypergamy comes from?

That reason is never, as you mistakenly think, "stupid." (You: "Of course everything women want is for a reason, sometimes that reason is stupid. ") Again, wrong. See above.

Sometimes reasons are stupid. "I robbed a bank to look cool." That's a stupid reason.

I stated very plainly that women go for guys in order get certain needs met.

Yeah, and sometimes they go for guys that don't actually meet those needs, but rather LOOK like they would meet those needs. And those aren't really "needs" either, they are more like emotional wants.

And yes, it is stupid. Sometimes things are stupid in this world.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

no one is really that hot anyways. I mean, look at a woman without makeup, or genuinely look for flaws. -40% was the post?

They are the same average looking schlubs that most men are... Guys are just really good at ignoring things.

[–]Rasalom72 3 points4 points  (5 children)

This post reminds me of all those lotto winners who have suddenly gotten millions of dollars from winning, and then go on TV claiming that money doesn't by happiness, etc..

You can only make the claim about banging hot girls not being so special once you've done it, and then, yea... for you it would be nothing special. That doesn't mean that it's still not something that others would want to do.

I'm not rich.. but I would love to be, because even if money can't buy happiness, it can sure as hell rent it.

[–]KingDooble[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

You can only make the claim about banging hot girls not being so special once you've done it, and then, yea... for you it would be nothing special. That doesn't mean that it's still not something that others would want to do.

Look. Nobody denies that being rich is better than being poor, or that banging hot chicks is fun. It is fun. But as a human being you need to decide how to live your life and how to prioritize your time and energy.

Anybody can become rich - anybody. All you have to do is make that your sole goal in life and eliminate everything else (hobbies, relationships, health, etc...). Now, there have been people in life that have done that and become rich and when they become rich they realize that being rich isn't that awesome, and it's definitely not worth sacrificing your health, relationships, etc...

Same with banging hot chicks. If you can live an awesome life and occasionally bang hot chicks, great. But if you make the sole goal of your life banging hot chicks and forget everything else (deep relationships with women that deserve it, hobbies, your dignity, etc...), you may achieve your goal of banging hot chicks and realize that it wasn't that awesome of a thing in the first place.

[–]Rasalom72 1 point2 points  (3 children)

True, but then you will also find those guys who's lives are amazing because they got rich.... they gave up everything else, and now that they are rich, they can get everything else they "gave up" before.

So, the guy who makes it his goal to bang hot chicks might get there, start banging models, and then finds that everything else just falls into place because of preselection, increased ego/ mental wellbeing, opportunities, etc.

Everyone needs to determine what their priorities are, and how much effort each item on their list to devote their energies towards.... for some guys, item one is banging hot chicks... and it always will be... for others it's only banging hot chicks for now, and then once they climbed that mountain, they will move on to another one...

[–]KingDooble[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

True, but then you will also find those guys who's lives are amazing because they got rich.... they gave up everything else, and now that they are rich, they can get everything else they "gave up" before.

The point I am making, which you are totally missing, is that being rich, or banging hot chicks, is a shitty goal to have as one's life. If you can somehow become rich and have the other stuff too (good relationships, health, hobbies, etc...) then more power to you. But if you sacrifice that other shit for wealth then you're dumb.

Same with hot chicks. The reality of our world is that there are a lot of super-hot chicks that are super-entitled and are basically bloodsuckers of men. Dealing with them is a full time job and they ruin other parts of your life. If you can find a hot babe that allows you keep the other parts of your life, great. IF not, it is stupid to sacrifice everything else for a hot babe.

So, the guy who makes it his goal to bang hot chicks might get there, start banging models, and then finds that everything else just falls into place because of preselection, increased ego/ mental wellbeing, opportunities, etc.

That's just dumb. Find me one example of a guy that was a loser, started banging models, and then became successful.

[–]Rasalom72 0 points1 point  (0 children)

is a shitty goal to have as one's life.

For you. For some guys, it might be the only goal. I'm not missing your point, I'm just saying that what works for you, or me, doesn't mean it works for everyone... I'm letting everyone determine what the point of their life is....

That's just dumb. Find me one example of a guy that was a loser, started banging models, and then became successful.

So because you've personally never seen it, it's can't happen? I guarantee it's happened...

[–]nicechallenge 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree life is completely neutral, you and every single person on this planet has the right to decide what is their purpose in this life, yeah maybe you are right we have to find a balance but at the same time don't expect to get above average results without making some sacrifices (health, relationships,etc). Sometimes you gotta make sacrifices in order to succeed. "That's just dumb. Find me one example of a guy that was a loser, started banging models, and then became successful." Tyler from RSD

[–]Marr0w1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look at guys in their 40's/50's. Then look at women the same age. If you stay on top of your game, then no matter whether you date/LTR a 7 or a 9, you're going to end up (subjectively) better looking than them. Not really sure what my point was, apart from the fact that picking your LTR based on looks for status is a short-game, and the only real reason to do it is for the challenge, or if it really makes you happy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

isn't high value, if only determined by and when it comes to the aspect of sex-acquiring skill, measured by the objectively beautiful/attractive appearance value of the girls he gets it on with

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/07/17/the-measure-of-a-man-by-the-women-he-keeps/

[–]KingDooble[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

See, I disagree with that article. A lot of guys have hot wives that aren't that awesome, and a lot of awesome guys have boring-looking wives.

[–]T0000009 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What you missed is the "money" aspect....

When you walk into a store and "money is no object" it does not matter what you want to buy, you can afford it, no calculations no wondering if there is room on the credit card... you have endless cash on hand for that Ferrari, yacht, plane, or jewels.

Now, for the next guy... Money IS an object, and he checks his bank balance, calculates interest, knows he will need a loan to afford the same extravagance with some creative financing.

Both men can buy anything they want, but one needs to think about it while the other just drops the cash without a second thought. So the hot chick that is boring is easily "purchased" by the first guy, while the same chick needs to be "financed" by the second. Both can have her, or pick her up, but it's the "true cost" calculation the men make which you missed.

[–]JillyPolla 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How can you say that being hot doesn't take work yet right after say that being hot is all temporary illusion through makeup etc?

I mean I agree with the general gist of not putting hot girl on a pedestal because ultimately they provide little value, but they do spend a lot of efforts on being hot.

[–]KingDooble[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How can you say that being hot doesn't take work yet right after say that being hot is all temporary illusion through makeup etc?

It clearly takes "work" but the amount of work to become hot pales in comparison to the work required to do real things (become a successful businessman, etc...)

[–]sodainthewatercup6 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd like to add pretty much all Disney movies correlate "beautiful" and "handsome" with "good" and "successful". We are raised on this horseshit.

This is why I secretly approve of the message in Frozen. It shows that beautiful people CAN have bad intent, and also highlights the importance of family.

[–]skoobled 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it's amazing how many guys think their desire for really hot women is idiosyncratic

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We're not told by society that sex is the best thing ever. We're programmed to feel this way.

It's absolutely not the equivalent to watching sunset.

Sex releases many hormones in the brain that work to make you feel satisfied and relaxed and happy. I suspect it also works on your subconscious wiring (deep within that iceberg) to make you know that you are getting what you desire.

[–]bleed-red 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lesson Learned: We truly are the prize. Act like it. Work like it. Live like it. Be The Prize.

[–]gaburt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This post is beautiful. BTW I would never believe a hot woman wrote this. I am hot, but an attractive 7 rather than 9. I've been told by my X I'm a 7 at best lol But having spent until 6 years ago as an ugly duckling, has had a way of calming me down, and giving more respect.

[–]verify_account -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I am in my 30s and it’s very interesting that the cool, confident “alpha” guys from my youth who got laid all the time are now mostly happily married with children.

Stop pushing marriage. Your morals have no place here bud.

[–]KingDooble[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Can't tell if serious or not.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It even leaks into our jokes. How many times have you heard men jokingly say things like “dude that girl is so hot, I would eat her poop for cereal if I could bang her.

zero man gesus. But I find myself repeating your line- 'your value as a man has nothing to do with whether hot girls like you'

[–]Traz_Onmale -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

The problem with hypergamy is that is irrational and based on appearances, so women will not bang the guy that is ACTUALLY above them or a winner, but whoever APPEARS to be above them or a winner. That’s why women often end up with losers like rappers or “bad boys” or guys with a lot of fake confidence rather than guys that are actually successful (think, like, a humble accountant).

It's not irrational if you want your genes to spread like mad. If you do, you want your sons to be successful at procreating, meaning they better inherit some of that interesting bad-boy aggression instead of that boring accountant beta-ness.

[–]KingDooble[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

If you think "bad boys" have better genes then you are a moron.

[–]andlime -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

"Better" seems like the wrong word here. It doesn't matter whether they are or not, only whether they are perceived to be

[–]Traz_Onmale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Define better. Better to spread? Absolutely.