FinanceEnough About Women. Let's talks money... the TRP way. If you have alternative revenue streams, are in an unconventional occupation, or live an unconventional life style... SHARE IT! [Discussion] (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Senior Contributordr_warlock

edit: Good thread developing below just as I predicted. If you have questions, don't be afraid to ask these guys. They're taking time out of their day to contribute FOR FREE. Take advantage of it.


Title. I will not be posting any advice or information about myself in the OP.

  • Relevance

  • The types of questions that would be helpful to answer.

  • The general formatting you should construct your answers

IMPORTANT: This discussion shall remain amoral. If your strategy is immoral by conventional standards, it doesn't matter. Share it, then the readers will decide whether or not it fits within their values to replicate it. You have a strategy, it works for you, that's all.

If any of you don't like another's strategy, keep scrolling. If you must, downvote and move on. TRP is a buffet. Take what you like and leave the rest.

However, if you think someone's full of shit, by all means say it. If you think someone could go about their strategy more efficiently, let them know. If you want to know more information, ask or send them a PM.


The red pill extends far beyond sexual strategy and female nature. You've been lied to about every facet of life, this includes making money and supporting yourself. Financial freedom is key to independence. Having mobile/transferable skill set and living in abundance is powerful. And if you must know, will effect your sexual strategy. Why not ask this in a finance sub you ask? Because I, along with many others, want to know the real shit. I want information uncluttered with blue pill nonsense that will hold me back or have me exploited by others along the way.

The conventional path is to go to university, get a degree, get a 9-5, get married, have children, buy a house & minivan, work until retirement, the end. Community college (or no school at all), not getting married, not having children, and alternative paths are stigmatized to the max (even if you're successful).

We want to hear how there exists many avenues of approach to success. By sharing, you would be helping a lot of people, and I guarantee you'll learn something. I know we have a few millionaires that lurk here.

Through out my ~2 years here, I've seen many high quality comments about this subject, but they're scattered. It's helpful to have a compilation people can read through. Who knows, you may even get some contacts.

Potential Questions to Answer

The purpose of many of these questions is to reveal that you're not limited to one path in life, to give someone a starting point. Much of men's ignorance today is not their fault, the mental prison they've been conditioned to live in makes them not even know what questions to ask. Help them out. Help expand their thinking. You don't need to spell out your life, just give us a rundown and if possible, provide a few links to help those interested conduct further research and get started.

Most importantly, point out any harsh realities that the mainstream doesn't like to cover. Discuss sacrifices, the stress, the failures, etc. Give us the real deal. Destroy the fantasy and delusion. We've had more than enough of that, that's why most of us are here.

Obviously, you're going to answer with what you're comfortable telling. I should remind you to keep it as anonymous as possible because SJWs lurk here all the time.

What is your alternative revenue stream/unconventional occupation/unconventional lifestyle?

  • Are you an independent contractor?
  • Are you a garbage man?
  • Do you work from home?
  • Are you a blogger?
  • Do you work a trade?
  • You in a local band?
  • Are you an inventor?
  • Are you an online retailer?
  • You do buy in bulk and sell on Ebay?
  • Do you freelance?
  • Do you own a physical business?
  • Do you couch surf?
  • Are you a political shill designed to derail conversation?
  • Do you live off passive income?
  • Do you live a modest lifestyle using unique ways to get by?
  • Are you an investor?
  • Are you a landlord?
  • Are you a pimp or drug dealer?
  • Did you expatriate, denounce your citizenship, or just bailed out the country?
  • Are you a male stripper or prostitute?

How did you start out?

  • Are you from a rich family?
  • Were you dirt poor?
  • Were you kicked out of the house? (especially from a young age)
  • Was your home environment terrible?
    • Did you leave early? If so, how did you manage to leave at an early age and get by?
  • Are you a high school drop out?
  • Did you go to community college, university or receive graduate or doctoral education?
    • Was the education helpful/needed for your success? Was it a complete waste of time and money?
    • Are you a community college, or university drop-out?
  • Did you find everything you needed on the internet?
  • Did you have a 9-5 already?
    • Did start your alternative revenue streaming on the side of you 9-5? Did you just quit and go for it?
    • Did your 9-5 aid you in your alternative endeavors?
  • Did you get a bank loan, capital investments, or receive money from family and friends? (even steal)
  • Did you have to work multiple jobs to save up?
  • Did you work a job(s) while attending school?
  • Did you have to sell many of your belongings to make money?

Where did you acquire the information you needed to get started and become successful?

  • Family? Friend? Mentor? Colleague? Classmate? Acquaintance? Lawyer and other professionals?
    • Was anything special needed to encounter this individual?
  • What books? (Readers can find free pdfs online)
  • Which websites? (or subreddits)
  • What videos? (Who would you recommend following?)
  • What groups or events?

Note: If you can find a compilation, even better. Information is often scattered across the net, deep in forums.

What were the struggles/obstacles? What is the reality that most get wrong or need to prepare for?

  • Social obstacles to expect?
  • An unexpected change in mindset?
  • Did people shame you or not believe you?
  • Does the government get in the way? (Assuming it's legal)
  • Taxation realities?

What strategy did you implement?

  • Tax reduction methods most people don't know about?
    • Do you have ways to prevent Uncle Sam from taking your money?
  • Was any Machiavellian tactics/48 Laws of Power used?
  • Did you use any pre-selection?
  • Do you prey on beta males? (i.e. make fake female profiles to get sent free things)
  • Do you play both sides against each other?

Where do you look for customers? (Such as when you're a freelancer)

  • Did you start door-to-door?
  • Did you make a big scene for attention to your product?
  • What websites?
  • Social media?
    • Which ones?
    • Did you try and find out it wasn't useful?

How long have you been at it? Do you enjoy it?

If you feel anything else is important to discuss, feel free to discuss it. Rant if necessary. It's the comments section; go nuts.

Formatting of your response

All responses should begin with your alternative revenue stream/unconventional occupation/unconventional lifestyle and should be in bold as follows...


Occupation: Freelance Webdesigner

Occupation: Revenue generating, harem managerial agent

Occupation: Big Data


[–]MoneyStatusLooks 75 points75 points [recovered]

What is your alternative revenue stream/unconventional occupation/unconventional lifestyle?

I work as an affiliate marketer in the online gambling industry. Specifically, I work with online slots and online casinos. My income last year was £300k GBP, my projected income this year is £360k GBP with two months left in my company tax year.

Basically, I make websites, that get high rankings in the Google search engine. The visitors to my website, I then use sales to get them to join online casinos, the casino then pays me either a percentage of the revenue generated, or a CPA (A one time fee when someone makes a deposit on the casino), I have CPA's up to £200. My average earnings per person who makes a deposit at an online casino is approximately £120.

I primarily make my money from 3 things:

  • Making very large "authority" websites with lots of content.
  • Getting such websites to rank highly in Google using SEO.
  • Converting visitors in to customers using sales (Basically getting from point A - my website to point B, the casino website)

Do you work from home?


Are you a blogger?

Definitely not. I sometimes write content and in the beginning I wrote hundreds of pieces. Now I pay others to write on my behalf, I have outsourced 90% of this part of my business.

Do you work a trade?

My trade is 3 fold:

  • Understanding the web. I know enough about web design, coding and marketing. But I don't do it now, I hire great people to do it for me. Now I just manage and build more projects.
  • Sales sales sales.
  • SEO.

Do you live off passive income?

This is an interesting question. At this point my income averages £30k a month. If I don't work for 30 days, I will still earn £30k next month. So in a sense it's passive. However my assets are definitely not 0 maintaince. So if I do nothing, the £30k a month average will definitely start to lower. I have enough momentum now though, that if I don't work for 6 months, I may be earning more. Eventually though it would get less.

My overall strategy is to get enough money out of my business and in to passive income/cash flow assets, so that I can retire, but thats another story.

Do you live a modest lifestyle using unique ways to get by?

I used to. My expenses are now approx £4k a month, which is still not very much compared to my income. I used to live on £1500 a month for many years though.

Are you an investor? Are you a landlord?

I am both. I have only one real estate investment. I have personal portfolio of stocks/shares/assets and a self managed pension.

How did you start out?

I started making websites when I was about 11. My first "career" was when I was still in high school and I started going round trying to make websites for local businesses. Over time my skillsets and ambitions evolved.

Are you from a rich family?

No, they are lower middle class.

Are you a high school drop out?

I never went to college. I am super thankful I didnt because what you can learn in online marketing can be learnt online or from books, often pretty cheaply and is constantly evolving. A college course in making websites and online marketing would suck because by the time you finish the material would be out of date. You need to self learn to stay on the cutting edge.

Was the education helpful/needed for your success? Was it a complete waste of time and money? Did you find everything you needed on the internet?

Self-education was paramount. I learned through books, online tutorials, self experimentation and online forums.

Did you just quit and go for it?

By the time I was out of high school, I was earning the same amount as teachers. This was starting business in my own time. My parents wanted me to go to college, I said let me try business for a few years and if it doesn't work ill go college. I had good enough grades.

Did you get a bank loan, capital investments, or receive money from family and friends? (even steal)

100% self funded. I got starting capital through providing services (making websites) for other companies. Then my skillset evolved and my business grew organically.

Where did you acquire the information you needed to get started and become successful?

Specifically, Amazon with business books, books on sales and marketing etc. Also forums and just generally learning websites through trial and error. I am skilled, but I still use Wordpress and purchase premium themes, which are then modified. We don't waste our time or energy making websites from scratch, its simply not worth it nowadays.

What books? (Readers can find free pdfs online) Which websites? (or subreddits)

There are so many books and websites. I will try and make a list and edit this post at some point.

What were the struggles/obstacles? What is the reality that most get wrong or need to prepare for?

Biggest obstacle was understanding how Google works on a high level, and being able to do SEO better than 95% of people.

Also that websites typically, take months to get high position rankings, so you have to put in a lot of effort before you reap a penny back.

Did people shame you or not believe you?

No one believed in me or gave me any encouragement. But I was typically not shamed. Now they are all very supportive.

Taxation realities?

Don't make me cry. Yes I pay a lot of taxes.

Was any Machiavellian tactics/48 Laws of Power used?

Yes, with negotiating suppliers for higher revenue share or CPA (playing them against each other). Also in sales/conversion in general.

Do you prey on beta males? (i.e. make fake female profiles to get sent free things)

I guess online gambling is a dumb/beta thing.

Are you married? Do you have a family?

I am in a LTR. No marriage, no kids.

How do you balance the lifestyle with them? (Assuming it can be a challenge)

No need. My GF loves my lifestyle, I go on about 5-6 foreign vacations a year. Some on my own, some with her, she loves coming along for the ride (BB?).

How long have you been at it? Do you enjoy it?

16 years now (I'm 28). I still enjoy it, at times I don't.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

i probably know you haha, feel free to pm me to talk about am stuff

[–]1IamGale 4 points5 points  (3 children)

What drives you to work so hard?

[–]MoneyStatusLooks 8 points8 points [recovered]

I want to freedom. I want to retire. Success does wonders for your self esteem too.

I want to build a legacy at some point and create a project that adds a lot of value to humanity. But I wouldn't even dream of starting it until I have my financial future solved, and my future kids financial future solved. I come first.

[–]1htbf 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Congrats man. I kinda envy you.

I just have one question, do you like your current job ? It's obvious you liked creating websites when still a teenager but do are you still as passionate ? Do you think you're gonna be doing this for years to come or are you thinking about trying other things ?

[–]1dongpal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i envy people like you who manage to already earn money in young years. im 23 and i havent done shit. i was good at gambling and pc gaming but these are useless skills

[–]1IamGale 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Amazing Story! Thank you for sharing. I'm trying to get a good handle on SEO, and I would love your opinion on it. Do you think the best way to rank, from a high level point of view, is to become a content hub? Do you follow a content marketing strategy to rank?

[–]LifeForceHoe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Am very interested in this. I try to rank in Google to no avail. Hope I find what's lacking in my formula. Good job on the revenue stream, hoping I can tread the path you took.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what you do sounds exactly like what i do full time.

[–]animalpoo 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Inspirational !

I would love a suggestion of books if you have the time. I'm making the transition from in-person sales to writing web-copy/SEO, the books I'm reading appear a few years outdated.

[–]MoneyStatusLooks 3 points3 points [recovered]

Sales and copy is more or less timeless. In theory they translate well, but I know I am a great web salesman, less so in real life. Some people have a flair for copy, some people are natural sales people. Both skills can be learnt though.

I like Influence by Cialdini, Words That Sell and Write To Sell.

With respect to my websites. Sales and copywriting helps, specifically with my email list and I am sending email offers. However, conversion, which is more to do with the overall look and feel of the website, as well as element placement is even more important in my eyes. I would say I am an expert at that as well.

[–]unleashedhero 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You are my hero. Reading this just motivated the shit out of me. Can I pm you I want to pick at your brain

[–][deleted] 60 points61 points  (23 children)

Occupation: Founder/CEO

Age: Mid-20's

I started making websites at age 13 and by age 16 I was making money designing websites and from affiliate income. I kept learning and learning about making money online. All the information needed is on the web for free. You don't have to purchase anything.

I always had pretty good grades and got a decent SAT score, but I never liked school too much. Got my AA at a local community college and went to a couple of junior level classes for mechanical engineering, then dropped out.

When I turned 18, I started working at my father's TV production company. Some of the biggest red pill lessons in my life came from that job. I went from barely being able to get laid to constant dates and sex with very attractive young model girls. It raised my standards of beauty dramatically and helped me achieve the abundance mentality needed to not give a fuck.

I found a "girl" that I "fell in love". You guys know how that turns out. Bear with me because there is a point to all this story. I found an "incredible" 18 year old woman who was still a virgin. I turned her from a virgin and had her having threesomes with me after about a year. The relationship lasted 4 years and I had to cut her off, after exhibiting too many red flags. It was the hardest thing I had to do. A good chunk of my sites had just been wiped out and my income dropped close to 0 within a month. It fucked with my head and started a downward spiral in all areas of my life.

You ever sit down and calculate just how much money is fucking wasted on pussy? It's fucking ridiculous. I had spent 4 fucking years with bitches, burning money on good times and going to college for something that deep-down I know wouldn't be worth it. ( I did really enjoy it, but the opportunity cost for sitting down another year or two was too high for my blood).

I was still running my passive income websites and making websites for clients through my personal agency. I was making 3k on a bad month and 5 or 6k on a good month. I kept studying in college and went through odd life experiences and trips that enlightened me.

I decided one faithful December to cut out absolutely everything in my life that wasn't directly related to achieving my life's goals. I cut woman out. I cut 95% of my friends out. I dropped out of college. I cleaned my room and it looked like a jail cell.

I worked like a motherfucker day and night developing countless of business models and schemes. I must have ran 1000's of scenarios/business plans that I could work with the money I had.

I went with an eCommerce site that filled a void on a product that people were searching constantly on the internet. I built everything myself and used my skills acquired from my agency to rank the site across google combined with paid advertising through a wide range of sources and a strong social media presences in the hundreds of thousands of followers.

I started this company a little under 2 year ago and today I am making somewhere around 350k in profits in month. The good chunk of that income comes from that eCommerce site. My business caters 80% to women. I find feminists and "independent" women to be very profitable. Women are less skeptical customers and are moved through the motions much more easily then men. The product is more then likely being paid by some beta.

I acquired every skill I needed to do this purely through the internet and 99.9% of it was completely free. These days I will some times purchase a product that seems exceptional because I don't have time to search the internet where it's probably posted somewhere for free anyways.

I am still in the process of diversifying more. Where my money is coming from or where it is invested.

  • Car Dealership
  • International Cargo company focuses on a particular region
  • Modeling agency
  • Dozens of high quality affiliate sites I purchased
  • Rental real estate
  • Real Estate Brokerage
  • Digital Marketing Agency
  • 3 more different eCommerce sites

Tax structures:

My online-based companies are based in the British Virgin Islands and the bank accounts are in Hong Kong. I recommend you register off-shores for any online companies because you gain the ability to defer corporate taxes indefinitely. The compound interest of investing the money kept from paying taxes and later paying the taxes once that money is multiplied is astonishing to say the least.

Future Ventures ( I want to bump up my income higher to enter in some of these and the market timing has to be there:

  • Real Estate Development firm
  • Independent Film Production Studio
  • Purchase a bank in a certain country ( It ties into a grand goal I have)
  • Angel back my own start-up ventures

Advice that helped me achieve the mentioned:

  • I read every single day. I go through 2 books a week on average
  • Learning to learn is paramount. Everything I needed to built this came from the internet.
  • When you aren't where you want to be in life. Cut the bullshit out. I had the skills and the knowledge to do this many years before I actually did it. You wanna know why I didn't? Because I wasn't focused, disciplined and distracted by shit that didn't matter.
  • If you wake up later then 6 am, you're already losing.
  • Women suck the life out of you if you let them or like an idiot think one is "special."
  • Always keep a rainy day fund to keep you afloat for at least a year without doing shit.

Things I am still working on:

  • I am relatively skinny. I weight around 168 at 6'1'. I used to weigh 155. I am growing and my goal is to reach 180 with 10% body-fat. I am at 12% right now. Still pretty good. This relates to money because my presence has to be optimal based on how young I am and the people I am starting to deal with. I didn't command any respect until I started talking. Now I am starting to command respect just by walking in a room.
  • I am going to move more and more of my assets into various international trusts to start separate all my companies from me. This will protect me from divorce rape ( In the event I marry) and most frivolous lawsuits that could happen.
  • Running various online companies that make money is great, but they are not my end goal. Everything I have done until this point is to be able to start playing the game with the right amount of resources.
  • I am still acquiring more and more skills needed to advance to the next level. I finished an intensive web development bootcamp a couple of months ago and have gotten proficient enough to manage people in this industry. There are still many more I need to acquire, particularly on better management.
  • My organizational skills have gotten way better these last two years, but they still need to be improved.

The final and biggest piece of advice I can give anyone.

Never have a plan B

For years, I always had a plan B,C,D,E. It looked something like this.

  • Plan A: Make it as an entrepreneur
  • Plan B: Graduate as an Engineer, work and try Plan A
  • Plan C: I hated engineering, so go to Law school.
  • Plan D: I graduated Law school, work as a lawyer and start a practice
  • Plan E: Hated being a lawyer, drop out and start trafficking drugs across borders.

Obviously, you can pivot a little if something isn't working, but nothing like I mentioned above. This is how most people run their lives and how I did for most of it.

[–]MoneyStatusLooks 8 points8 points [recovered]

If this is true I really congratulate you on your MASSIVE $350k a month profit success.

However, something about this just seems off. I only read through it once but can't put my finger on it.

[–]nurse_cameltoe 2 points2 points [recovered]

I started this company a little under 2 year ago and today I am making somewhere around 350k in profits in month

Just curious: how long did it take to become even slightly profitable? I'm thinking maybe $1k/mo? Because that ramp up from nothing to six-figures monthly is incredible.

We all know how it starts(nothing) but few of us know the progression from nothing to mediocre, then to "hey this might work" to "hey it's working" to "holy shit"

[–]zardfizzlebeef 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This was the most inspirational post in this thread for me. As a person about to try my hand at ecommerce (I've been reselling on Amazon/Ebay for about a year now. Saved up enough to import my own products now) this is hella influential.

[–]Nergaal 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I have a serious question. What do you plan to get out of sharing this story? You seem to be extremely goal oriented, so spending time to post something like this has to achieve something.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Smart question here.

I have a life coach/therapist I see to help keep me on track with everything. It serves as a form of accountability for me.

I typically write long winded stream of consciousness that are latter used to examen my subconscious thoughts. I will share this with her anyways and thought it might inspire someone to take massive action. Some might be skeptical, but I have managed to rewrite several self-limiting beliefs that were unconsciously plaguing me. It has helped me and I have been better everyday. That's all I can really tell you.

I also contribute to TRP because it's teaching have been helpful in my life and I feel like giving back.

[–]masterco 21 points21 points [recovered]

Occupation: Designer/Programmer/SEO Consultant.

What is your alternative revenue stream/unconventional occupation/unconventional lifestyle?

Grew up poor. I taught myself how to code and design when I was 12. I had to learn SEO to be noticed my customers when I launched my products at 18.

I started freelancing, now I code and design Wordpress templates and sell them online, I also made stupid games for iOS/Android that have ~25K users per month, the games are free, I get money from advertising. Games are passive income and the templates too, if I choose to give zero support to the buyers.

I travel the world full time, I use couchsurfing to meet people in every city I go to, meetup and tinder work really well too.

Couldn't afford college and with programming, even without a degree finding jobs is really easy.

I learned HTML first, then CSS, then Javascript and finally PHP for wordpress. I hate PHP code but Wordpress works on top of it, now I'm designing a template for Ghost. (Javascript powered 'Wordpress)

Codecademy is a good resource to start learning, also codeschool but if you're broke as i was once, there are a lot of free tutorials in youtube.

What were the struggles/obstacles?

Programming will always be a lonely job if you travel a lot like me. A lot of relationships between people are made at the workplace and in my case I work at starbucks, as I do everything I have no coworkers. I'd say the hardest part for me is being social, because I'm not forced to be (like most 9 to 5 jobs) I could go a week without talking to anybody focused on my code.

What I do to mitigate this is using couchsurfing the first few days when I'm in a new city, those people become my friends and I hang out with them for as long as I'm in the city, also really useful to get laid, being an expat gives a huge amount of perceived value

I suck at taxes, I pay a guy to do that.

Where do you look for customers?

I sell stuff on themeforest, ghost marketplace, creative market, and for the games the apple appstore and google play store.

Are you married? Do you have a family?

No wife, I miss my mom sometimes (I'm 20)

How long have you been at it? Do you enjoy it?

Father was an asshole, mom was left alone with me and my sister and brother when I was 12, programming was the only job I could do without people asking for my age or wanting to see a degree. I don't love it, per se, but I love the freedom it gives me (live in any country, not having to go to meetings, living in hotels, etc.)


To be honest I think my life is cool, but I wonder what's next, more notch count? Better body? More countries? Sometimes everything just feels so unappealing.

If you have any questions I'd love to answer them, I've been a mentor for two guys that are now traveling the world with the products they built with my mentorship. I like to help people so if you want to be mentored by me it would be my pleasure but I can only do 3 at the same time, I'm helping one guy from philippines right now so there are two spots left.

let me know.

[–]ChairBorneMGTOW 56 points57 points  (9 children)

I have a 9-5 job, plus a part time job a couple nights a week. But I also have passive income.

I own multiple parking spots in my condo building. I live close to the local university campus, as well as office buildings downtown. I rent these out to non residents to cover both property tax and the extra condo fees I pay for additional spots. I make a small profit on each spot every month.

The great thing about being a parking spot landlord is that it's easy to get into. Investment property can be had for relatively cheap. I just buy another spot whenever one comes up for sale in my building. Advantageous side effect is that I create false scarcity for spots in my building, increasing my property resale value.

It's a lower effort way to rent property too. I don't care if my renters own pets, make noise, are filthy hoarders, or smoke crack. It's just a fucking parking spot. It's not like they are living there.

Also, there is no legal protection for them in the sense of tenant rights, etc. Eviction is as easy as calling a tow truck (though I have never had to evict anybody).

Of course I have to keep this on the down low from my condo board. They could pass a corporate bylaw saying renting to non residents is forbidden, or raise the condo fees for parking spots for additional spaces.

Ultimately, I would like to own about twenty spots (it's in a high rise building). Because it's right downtown, urban professionals who walk to work don't need the spots that come with their condos, so occasionally they get listed for sale.

Also, this plan won't work for you if you don't live in an area where parking is scarce. It also may not work if you have to borrow and pay interest to buy a parking spot, or if it's too expensive.

Do your own research, do your own math.

[–]ChairBorneMGTOW 16 points17 points  (0 children)

An addenda... If you live in Canada, and do the smart thing and declare your parking income to Revenue Canada, your condo fees, property tax, insurance and interest paid for those spots are all tax deductible.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

How much did you pay for your first spot?

What fees do you have to pay to maintain your ownership? ]

How much do you charge?

[–]ChairBorneMGTOW 18 points19 points  (4 children)

First one came with my condo. Second one was $27,500 bought it for my girlfriend at the time. When that relationship ended, I started renting it out and was surprised I was profiting about forty bucks a month.

Rent is about 180 / month, condo fees are 110 / month, tax about 30 / month.

Insurance is dicey, I have owners insurance and my property title covers all my spots and there is no limit in the policy to parking spots. When I got my policy, I made sure that I'm covered for renting or subletting. But they may have a problem with the scale of my operation even is not specifically forbidden in the policy.

Don't want to say how many I own now, but as I buy spots their value goes up due to increasing scarcity in the building. They are going for $30k - $35k now, so I've potentially got a decent return on capital if I decide to liquidate one or more. Problem is, they are getting more expensive, and I would start having to take out loans to buy more, so further investment might become a diminishing return.

[–]steelerfaninperu 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Fuck having a car and move to Peru

Ok, so I come from absolutely nothing. Like my parents declared bankruptcy after a foreclosed house kind of nothing.

I've made it a point to avoid debt. Best way to do that is not having a car. A car just guzzles money. You gotta live somewhere where you won't need a car. I live in Lima, Peru. Note, I didn't go to Peru to avoid having a car, that just happened and I discovered how great it is.

My monthly expenses are less than $1,000. My income is closer to $2,000. I may not make 100k a year, but I can save more than you probably do on that salary. Mind you I only have 800 square feet, though it is in a great neighborhood and I walk to work.

America requires you to get into debt and keep buying shit in order to compete with your neighbors and satisfy your needs. If you're not tied down, just leave. It's not a sustainable lifestyle. Everybody you know is weighed down in debt, and that just cripples your freedom.

[–]Intel81994 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hey do you live in miraflores? How do you like Lima? Age? How are the women and the casual dating scene? Hookers hot and cheap? Is there a scene for jobs for teaching English?

[–]steelerfaninperu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't live in Miraflores, because I find it overpriced and full of gringos that I can't stand. It's also far from my work, so there's that. Lima's alright, I mean it's a cool city and it has everything you could possibly want. Still, it's a bit of a shithole because of the people. People don't take care of shit and keep things looking nice in most parts.

I'm in my 20s, but it doesn't really matter if you're a white foreigner. Girls latch on pretty much instantly since they see you as a real catch (whether you are or not). As a result it's pretty easy to get laid. Like, almost to the point where your dick gets kind of spoiled and you start getting lazy.

Hookers surprisingly not so cheap, and not that great. I've never paid for it here cause I don't see the point.

English is a big industry here. You can get a job in a day if you know where to look. Walk in, present yourself, and if you know a thing or two about ESL you'll be snatched up instantly.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (5 children)

I work on Oil rigs.

I work ~ 180 days a year, and have the rest off. Occasionally I have to do maintenance or meetings at our shop. I make about ~120k. I've gotten to travel and spend time in some cool places--norway, Scotland, Croatia, Trinidad, and all over US, often on the company dollar. Prior to this, I was in the military, that's where I got my experience. I performed a very technical job, and worked my ass off to make rank, and then get leadership experience. My leadership experience has been more valuable than anything else. Engineering degrees definitely help to get you in, but I also work with guys who have had no experience, or came from other trades...cable companies, mechanics, plumbers. Right now it's hard to get into though.

Most of my free time has been spent traveling, going to school online, or fucking off. Been at it for two years now. The job is physically dancing--but the time gives you plenty of room for your own pursuits.

Currently I'm exploring things like welding and programming to add supplemental income in my free time where I can be my own boss. Since I eventually want to get out of the oilfield, definitely leaning towards programming.

48 laws of power has been huge to my success.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

What kind of work do you do for the oil rigs?

What are the hours like?

What are some examples where you used one of the 48 laws of power?

What kind of programming are you leaning towards?

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I do technical and engineering work on the drilling side-- a lot of it is it data analysis, equipment operation, maintenance, and repairs. It doesn't require a degree to work here, but you definitely need a meat eating personality.

In the field its 12 hours a day, usually a few weeks at a time. Don't be surprised if you work a 24 hour shift powered by coffee.

48 laws...it's hard to name specific instances. I used them often while in the military, and more in the office. Ultimately it's a process, and continual application. Never out shining the master, and playing the perfect courtesan seem to be most repeated. I'm not an engineer, but often have to use these laws to handle big, fragile egos of people. People often think power is about being a knuckle dragging chest beater. It might work in college, but in the professional world it requires tact, subtlety, and most importantly self control. Think Kevin Spacey in House of Cards.

As far as learning programming, I'm looking into database analysis and coding. I'm pretty green though and still learning what all there is out there.

[–]IKickHorses 15 points15 points [recovered]


Direct report to the GM of a division of a worldwide critical supplier in the automotive industry. I call bullshit on shit in our processes, shit that goes to shit becomes my shit, and I un-fuck that shit a/r.

LTR with a better income. Keeping it in line saves me a chunk of dough, and what falls off the tree has a lot of utility.

Never sold a house, I only buy them. That is only three, but cashed out of one by assumption. I also moved the LTR into renting out their old home, and it has made them happier enough to make them easier to manage.

Bought a home on enough land with the right zoning and government (I am in the government state) to minimize costs and maximize opportunity. I call it the 4 L's Location, location, location, Legal.

Farming. Not "herbs" like so many other /u/'s, but seasonal produce and eggs. I sell the produce to restaurants and the eggs to anybody who knows I have them for sale. Most importantly, it is a business that turns a lot of my expenses for increasing the value of my property into tax deductions.

Trash into treasure. Every byproduct is a product waiting to be discovered. I don't clear brush and dead trees on my property, I cut firewood to sell. My chickens and horses don't shit, they make fertilizer that I don't have to buy.

Going forward: Agritourism. It takes time to create the attraction, which is what is going on now This is the launch into "active retirement" and working from home and having more or "The Life"


WWI, Wiemar Republic, Great Depression, WWII, Bavaria, Bohemia, Mormons, flea markets, The Amish and The Mennonites, Texas, Arizona, The Chicago Machine, Northern Italy, Spanish and Italian languages, Catholic schools, travel, corporal punishment, Vonnegut, Rand, Heller, horses, ex-cons, cats, roosters, motorcycles, bicycles, and Gypsies/Tinkers.

Over all, you may be dead, incapacitated or incarcerated tomorrow. The goal is to live as free and happily as possible doing things of value to others and yourself. Personally, I am one of the thriftiest bastard out there(so is the LTR). I know what my needs are and keep calm about my wants, this lets me keep more money to do work for me. Sure, sometimes you are not good enough and don't win, sometimes others are really out to get you, but it doesn't matter if you hold frame and and keep a strong grip on the reins.


I'm coming up on 50. A week with a fitbit told me I do over 15000 steps per day. I ride horses five days a week. I eat like a king every day with fresh food I produce or get from similar producers. I weigh what I did when I graduated from high school. I have a flock of under 40's that grool to take direction from me that keeps my dread game strong at home. Everything I can not afford to lose fits in a backpack. I have the time to post on Reddit!

[–]1IamGale 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I have a flock of under 40's that grool to take direction from me

This gave me the funniest image. I'm imagining a mixed flock of women and sheep that you're shepparding in a big field in Scotland somewhere.

But seriously I don't quite understand what you're saying.

LTR with a better income. Keeping it in line saves me a chunk of dough, and what falls off the tree has a lot of utility.

Do you have a bunch of plates in LTRs? You only buy houses and rent them to plates? Are you a sultan with a thousand concubines in your houses?

[–][deleted] 91 points91 points

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[–]AmkSk 18 points19 points  (19 children)

Why is Zen important for the programmers and designers?

[–]zue3 33 points34 points  (18 children)

Because you have to sit in place and concentrate for hours on end. Can't do that if you're hyperactive and have a short attention span.

Edit: I'm working on improving my attention span and discipline personally, if anyone has any advice or relevant story I would appreciate you sharing.

[–]Fuck_shadow_bans 18 points19 points  (7 children)

Try having ADD and working on interesting stuff. I can barely sit still, but if I find the problem challenging, I can work for 14 hours straight, to the point where I have to remind myself to eat, sleep, and shit before I die. It sucks not being able to control your focus, but it can be super beneficial in the right contexts.

[–]newpua_bie 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Do you have specific recommendations for books?

[–]zue3 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Do you want to read up on Buddhism, etc? Zen is a kind of Buddhism that focuses on meditation and yoga. You can read various religious texts on the subject but I don't consider them particularly helpful.

If you're interested in learning how to focus your mind I'd recommend starting some simple meditation. You can find various guides online on different methods. Experiment with it till you find something that suits your needs. Practice regularly.

[–]SigmundFloyd76 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shambala meditation is basically all the good of the Buddhist practice, but without all of the religious ideology.

It's a very pure and basic form of meditation. It enabled me to discover TRP 20 years ago before there was TRP. We called it "enlightenment" back then lol.

But seriously, it forces you into reality. The more you practice sitting, you more you realize how much bullshit in your mind is running the show.


[–]aDrunkenWhaler 13 points14 points  (15 children)

Saying 20 $100 jobs is better than one $2000 job is poor advice and has many disadvantages.

  1. Small task jobs don't make a portfolio. You will only have small nothings to show.

  2. Most of your time will be spend on running after customers instead of working. If you'll use sites like odesk or elance, you'll have to bid on 10 projects or more to get one. This will require you to read 10+ briefs and give custom relplies to better your chances. A lot of time wasred without any pay.

  3. Small tasks won't help build a relationship with a client. He'll give you a task now, then hire someone else, and you're back to the drawing board.

  4. Joggling beteween tens of projects is time wasting. Humans are not build to multi-task. You will burn yourself out in no time.

  5. It's hard to market quality work and ask a higher price for small taks since you're running after quantity in the first place.

  6. You'll stress yourself out knowing that each day you don't hustle (low energy, sickness, days off, problems to take care off etc.) your income will stop completely.

  7. Deadlines are for yesterday.

  8. No time to think of the future since the present is too unpredictable and drains all your energy.

  9. Huge competition.

My advice, aim for one or two big clients that give you work constantly. You'll have a constant flow on money that make it easier to add routine and discipline in your life, and you can make plans for investments. Your sanity will thank you for it.

[–][deleted] 11 points11 points

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[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Create an offering ladder, so those entry point clients can evolve into premium ones. Similar to plates, investing more time only in those who have proven worthy. And similarly, you want to position yourself as the prize.

[–]1ToSeeAndToHear 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think a lot of what you're talking about can be abstracted well to other fields. Do good work through an efficient and repeatable process, build skills and accumulate templates to save time on tasks you're doing over and over, and lots of general business/dealing with clients suggestions.

Thanks much.

[–]Essexal 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Worked in various aspects of finance until 2013, discovered Bitcoin.

Now work my own hours trading what I mine.

[–]sexmachine9000 4 points4 points [recovered]


How is it better than freelancer.com? When I was in college, I coded for a few people in freelancer.com

[–][deleted]  (2 children)


[–]1IamGale 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Interesting write up. What industry is your business in? Software?

[–]1Entropy-7 16 points17 points  (4 children)

I design board games. One of those was made into a video game and now I have a hundred bucks a month in passive cash. So now I want to add a few more titles to my library. . If any of you here are talented artists or the like, then PM me.

[–]twy3440 14 points15 points  (7 children)

Day Occupation: Litigation Attorney. Unlike a lot of attorneys who are miserable Fs, I love my job. But it's not anywhere near as lucrative as non-attorneys think. Of course, I could land the "big case" and wind up a millionaire but so far that's not happened.

Side Job Money-Maker: I day trade and longer-term trade commodities and financial futures. This is a pretty amazing way to make money. You use a brokerage account, you analyze specific commodities and you buy or sell depending on the direction.

The financial "experts" tell everyone to buy stocks. When stocks tank, they say "hold" stocks. They never say "sell and sell fast." Stocks can go to zero.

The laws of supply and demand do not apply to stocks. They do apply to futures on commodities as these represent tangible, real goods, raw materials, grain, currency, etc.

Where Did I Acquire the Knowledge: I've read a lot of books with perhaps the best one to start is "Trading Commodities and Financial Futures."

Also, read up on the so-called "Turtle Traders." Michael Covel's book "The Complete Turtle Trader" is a great read with good information.

You can read the original Turtle Trading Rules online, here:

Last but not least, I learned the most from this website, which tells you how to trade, what to buy, when, how to sell and there's a free 30-day trial: http://takeatradeonline.com/

[–]scorned 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Been looking to get into commodities for quite a while, thanks for the info.

[–]Trucks_N_Chainsaws 13 points14 points  (15 children)

Occupation: Electric utility stuff.
I pull about $170k a year. All my bills and savings are collected from one check. The second check is for whatever I want. Managed to save up ~$200k in my 401k. Took a loan from it in early December, before everything started shitting the bed, and went after two (low end) rental buildings.
Total units: 13.
Gross revenue: $5200/month
Net revenue: $2000/month
I'm still in the process of making the purchase but it should all be complete in <30 days. I found a property management company willing to handle my units for 6%, which is more than reasonable.
But that's it really - rental property. Am I slumlord? Yeah. Poor people need to live somewhere too. The goal here is to build enough monthly income to stop working for my employer.
But wait - there's more!
Once I have a few buildings under my belt, and get a feel for what's required, I plan on branching out with investors. Right now I'm projected to make ~60% cash-on-cash. Shouldn't be too hard to wrangle up $50k for additional buildings with numbers like that.
The 5-year plan is to have 100 units under management that generate a solid $100 net revenue each.
I came from almost nothing. Even if this real estate venture fails, I'm still making more than I ever thought I would. I regret nothing.

[–][deleted]  (98 children)


[–]PabloEscoba 42 points43 points  (17 children)

Work on your bad boy image. Start with reading No more Mr nice guy. Use your wealth to create status/social proof/pre selection. Use Tinder to start spinning some plates. Learn game. Move on to cold approaches via day game to get a better quality woman once your confidence levels are up.

[–][deleted]  (15 children)


    [–]gosu_link0 37 points38 points  (2 children)

    Donate to/sponsor causes promoted by celebrities. You will be invited to their parties as honored guests. Every man at those parties will be of extremely high social value just by virtue of being there. All the women will be hot.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]PabloEscoba 18 points19 points  (2 children)

      Watch the mannerisms of Collin Farell, Don Draper & George Clooney. Pay attention to the leadership and confidence of Clooney in From Dusk till Dawn.Get a leather jacket. Speak less. Learn amused mastery. Be unpredictable. Stop caring.

      [–]ArtTheRussian 12 points13 points  (1 child)

      Please god don't get a leather jacket, unless your a greaser in the 80s, that isn't apart of the style right now.

      [–]TRPhd 3 points4 points  (0 children)


      200-lb-vibrator. If you're near the coastal highway (is it Highway 1 to Monterey?) then all the better... make it a day trip to Big Sur.

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Hey man,

      I read often stuff from TRP but i don't like how they phrase everything as if everyone on this subreddit is alpha male or whatever.

      To be honest this is what works for me, all you gotta be is a guy who seems fun to hangout with. Post pictures in social media of stuff you do, skiing, basketball, cars, clothes, whatever.

      Basically, just be the kind of guy that when you imagine yourself from a 3rd person view, you'd be like " Damn, that guy is super cool, i wanna hangout with him"

      I'll edit my reply and add a bit more soon since i am busy.

      Btw this is coming from a 19 year old who gets laid quiet often and i don't have a bad boy image because that's not me and i won't fake it. Just genuine, fun and interesting.

      [–]charlesbukowksi 4 points5 points  (15 children)

      Question, how many years would you say CS mastery took you? I'm teaching myself through MIT OCW. How necessary would you say CS mastery is for the startup scene - I'm more of a generalist and my inclination is to learn enough to make a prototype then hire/partner with the right guy to flesh it out. Is that a recipe for disaster?

      Re: TRP
      You can become a master of social acuity and fast. Check out Owen Cook's Blueprint Decoded. Owen is an analytical guy and he dissects social dynamics in a way an engineer will understand. His videos are routinely posted here so I'm sure you'll recognize him. BPD is his magnum opus and before the seduction subreddit imploded it was the number one recommendation there.

      [–][deleted]  (9 children)


        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        If you have the right idea and the right charisma, you don't need the tech skills at all. But that's a much, much tougher path.

        Come on Steve, everyone knows you worked Wozniak into the ground

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

        What made you choose MIT ocw vs a programming language directly, Microsoft certs, or other online venue? How do you like it?

        [–]charlesbukowksi 3 points4 points  (3 children)

        Not sure what you mean here. Certifications of all kinds are a joke to me, from college degrees to accreditation. I'm in the game to learn. Sure in some industries you rely on accrediting boards, those also tend not to be the ones in which you can make a lot of money quickly.

        I read books too. I'd say a good book is usually the best resource for anything (exceptions include those things that you can't learn from a book like singing). Even better than a good book is a good series of lectures/videos, which MIT has in spades. Usually the guy who wrote the textbook is teaching the course, you can't beat that.

        I sometimes use EDX, Coursera, Stanford, Harvard, etc. when they have what I need. MIT is just the most thorough for CS so that's why I mentioned it.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Thanks for the reply. Haven't looked much at MIT's stuff yet but I'm going to check it out.

        I was referring to learning a language or IT skill directly vs a comp sci degree plan. Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle all have certifications for various skills. There's so many options for learning, def makes sense why you'd choose MIT.

        [–]charlesbukowksi 10 points11 points  (1 child)

        Learning languages becomes trivial past a certain point, it's something you'd learn just by taking a course on a subject you're interested in e.g. you might learn R while taking a course on statistics. Early on you're going for a strong conceptual framework. If you're serious the two courses I'd recommend to start are Harvard's CS50 and MIT's Intro to CS w/ Python. If you want to understand how computers work from first principles the book everyone recommends is CODE, it's conversational and simple enough for a middle school student.

        [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

        Fucking awesome.

        What kinds of problems did your businesses solve?

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)


          [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

          Dont fall into the pressure of proving your identity to anybody here, not even the mods. You provided your story, that's all you need.

          [–]sharp7 4 points5 points  (4 children)

          If I was you I would literally just hire a wingman. Some attractive commanding guy who obeys your every wish. Someone who knows how to be attractive and also how to be submissive to you to give you massive social proof. The hotter the guy who's obeying you, the hotter you are.

          It's probably not that expensive since you can hire them per-hour for whenever your going out although I don't know how you would find them. All I know is that I've done this for my guy friends before, and it works.

          [–][deleted]  (3 children)


            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            Can you reccomend some ways for someone new to learn and get into programming? There's so much information available, where do you think is a good place to begin?

            [–]Rougepellet 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            For complete beginners check out solo learn apps in the app store such as learn Java. They have a couple

            [–]1dongpal 5 points6 points  (5 children)

            isnt learning programming as a beginner nowadays dumb because of all the cheap india/asia workers and because there are many coders out there already?

            [–]masterco 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            Depends, if you want to be a freelancer then those guys are gonna be a competition for you. But if you want to build your own ideas without spending money on programmers then I'd say it is a really good thing to know.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)


              [–]1dongpal 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              do you have to be good in math?

              [–]ampwyo 36 points37 points  (10 children)

              Occupation : ESL/Kindergarten Teacher in Asia

              TLDR: I teach kids, travel, and enjoy an interesting social life. Came for the experience, stayed for the life style, but now what?

              I'm basically just an expat doing what most expats do to pay the bills. I've lived in Taiwan almost 4 years and was in Korea for 3 before that. My salary is roughly 2000 usd per month which isn't much back home, but in Taiwan it affords me a pretty good life style. My rent is about 300 bucks for an apartment in a central location in pretty big city. Food and services are cheap- if I really wanted too I could save more than half my pay. I like having a social life so that would be a rare month.

              I only really work 5 hours a day (9 - 4 with 2 hours for lunch - I leave when the the kids have lunch and nap). I also pick up some side work. I can get 20 to 25 bucks an hour for private lessons or subbing esl in the evening. I've pulled an extra 600 - 700 bucks some months. I actually like teaching the 4 - 6 year old age group, back in the states I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so, as someone would probably call the police if they saw me watching them on the playground. Which is unfortunate because kids need more male authority figures and role models.

              Taiwan is a good home base for travel in East and south east Asia. Tickets to the Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam etc can be had for 100 to 200 bucks if you travel smart.

              My friends come from all over the world; Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Saffers etc. are usually doing what I'm doing, other Europeans tend to be engineers or restaurant owners. I enjoy the mix of nationalities in the expat community here. I also like asian women, its a win win.

              On the otherhand, I'm 33 and I should be looking for ways to make my financial future more secure. Its a deceptively easy lifestyle. Real easy to stay right where I am with everything I need, harder to get ahead. There's probably opportunities to source parts or merchandise from factories in Taiwan and China for businesses in other parts of the world, for example, but it will definitely take some work, and connections, to get there.

              [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

              How did this all begin? How did you start?

              Do you speak the native language? Have you had issues if not?

              [–]ampwyo 12 points13 points  (2 children)

              A buddy of mine from university went to Korea, suggested I try it out. He helped me find my first job, but its easy enough to find teaching work without any connections.

              Basically you need to have a 4 year degree in any discipline from an accredited college or university and that's about it (There are better jobs for licenced teachers). Other visa requirements vary from country to country.

              You don't need to know local languages to teach, as there is often a local co-teacher making half your pay for twice as much work either helping you in the classroom or teaching their own classes while you rotate through. Learning the local language opens a lot of doors socially and professionally though.

              Its easy enough to get around and survive without knowing the language, English is everywhere. Plates will always help you translate, and locals like making foreign friends. It can definitely be frustrating, but the rise of the smartphone has definitely helped as well. When I first got out here I had to point and grunt at the menus, sometimes didn't even know what I was ordering, now i can take a picture and run it through Google translate If i don't understand.

              [–]nuferasgurd 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I would love to teach overseas somewhere. Can you recommend any companies that connect teachers with schools?

              [–]ampwyo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              The best place to look at job listings to get an idea of what's out there is probably http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/

              However, Facebook may be the way to go these days. Research countries or cities you might like to live in and there will probably be an english teachers group where schools post their openings directly and expats exchange information.

              In most cases I'd recommend not using a recruitment or placement agency unless you absolutely have to. It's always better to deal with schools directly. There are a lot of shady employers in the industry and when a school gets a bad reputation they'll hide behind recruiters to find teachers. The recruiters are paid by schools so they don't really care about the reputation of the schools.

              There are definitely some good placement agencies out there, I've heard Teach Away isn't bad, but I've never used them.

              If you do use an agency never give them money, they get paid by the school, and also make sure you get paid your salary by the school directly. Some recruiters will get your pay from the school and take a cut before paying you.

              You can find pros and cons for different countries on your own, but I will say if I wasn't so close to permanent residence in Taiwan I'd seriously be considering Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh is my favorite city in Asia and the salary vs the cost of living is quite decent. I'd also be looking at Myanmar, as it's just opening up more to foreigners in the last few years so there's probably going to be some interesting opportunities, and stories, to be had there in the next few years.

              [–]RPRedhead 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              I could/could have done this. I could have gone to China right out of college, an opportunity was waiting for me.

              I decided not to do that. Let me explain my thinking about this, and how I think something like this could be leveraged.

              After college, I looked at what I saw as 2 options:go teach ESL or get a "real" job and pay off my student debt and get on with life. Teaching seemed like a chance to travel and have fun (getting laid), the "real" job seemed like the responsible path forward.

              What I should have done was to go to China, learn Chineese and look for business/trade opportunities. Seeing as this was well before China's economic rise, I might have become filthy stinking rich if I had played my cards right.

              I sense that you see things in a similar light. I suggest re-evaluating what you can do in Taiwan. Opportunities abound, I'm sure. Perhaps you can start your own ESL school, or look to source parts as you mention.

              My point is that every endeavor can be a chance to do more than is presented. That job in Asia can be a springboard to success in trade. That vacation to see your relative can be a chance to check out opportunities in your industry. And so on. Similar to ABC. (Always Be Closing), always be looking for opportunity.

              [–]Moldy_Gecko 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              Haha, I was right there with you man. I'm just a hop to your east (Hint: We typically share the same typhoons). I'll be 33 this year and I can agree with a lot of what you say. I did the ESL thing as my first job here, but have moved on. Decent money, hot women, and easy to travel around. Highly recommend for younger guys.

              Also, I want to give you a suggestion as it's what I do here. My ex wife and I decided to start our own business teaching Japanese to Americans. I just run the business side while she does the HR and curriculum side. We are "tutors", so we avoid those licenses and what not. Thing is, you can hire part time people (working 1-6 hrs a week) and just take a cut. I pay my teachers about ¥1200/hr and I charge about $20-25/hr. Perhaps there is a way you could do this with someone you trust in Taiwan. Once my company is bigger, I'll be able to do group classes and rapidly expand.

              [–]Mgtowredpillonroids 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Been there. Taiwanese food is so fucking cheap. I ate like a motherfucker over there haha. 我觉得台北菜都很好吃啊。

              [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (12 children)

              I work as a programmer in finance in London.

              Positives: I earn a lot for my age. And probably will for the rest of my life. My risk is very low - I can fail in so many ways and still end up in a good corporate job earning amazing money (the only exception is, you can't work in finance with a criminal record).

              Negatives: No risk, no gain. My downsides are extremely limited, but so are my upsides. I don't have a lot of insight into salaries and bonuses for people years ahead of me, but I'm guessing they probably earn at most 3x what I'm earning, 20 years down the line. Combine that with London property prices, and it basically means you can't raise a family in Central London.

              To earn more, I'll need to take on more risk. Trading / sales (i.e. bring in money for your employer) or start my own business.

              [–]1IamGale 2 points3 points  (6 children)

              What kind of programming do you do?

              How did you get the position?

              What kind of risks would you need to take on to earn more?

              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

              Backend. I program mainly in Python, some Java, but learning a new language wouldn't be a problem for me (also I'm very interested programming, languages and software in general). I know about Linux and bash, SQL and different databases, a bit of networking, concurrency... I'd say pretty standard CS knowledge. The specific work I do is pretty business-specific, like most programming work.

              I had "good" education (a reputable university - although I learned programming on my own), and was contacted by recruiters soon after serring up my LinkedIn profile. In general, I would suggest adding some programming skills to your profile and setting your location to London, and maybe add some recruiters yourself... It's an incestuous industry, so once one recruiter adds you, many others will. To get a job, interview well, Know the standard interviewing techniques (you can PM me for example questions).

              As I wrote above. As a programmer, you're a cost center. You can jump up by switching jobs, but it's still just incremental progress. Ideally, I'll find a business idea where I can create the same amount of value I do every day for my employer, but capture all the profit myself.

              [–]Easih 1 point2 points  (4 children)

              I also work in finance(bank) and its true for the back office jobs that you are a cost center, its much less true for people closer to the money(Front office) and the dev working making the trading algorithmn/implementation; other type of job in programming pay pitance in comparaison.

              [–]Comeonyouidiots 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              Great post. How is it possible that youre making a lot of money for your age but yet 3x that can't support a family in central London? I would imagine youre clearing 100k pounds, so you're saying you can't live in London on 300k pounds ($500k USD ish)? I know London is expensive but it's it really that bad?

              [–]1mrust 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Not OP, but I am in the same industry with a bit more experience. With that skill set, I'd put the OP at 60k.. He sounds young and has likely been at it for less than 3 years. Your numbers are not that far off though. London real estate is still crazy. Keep in mind above 100k or so you start getting into the 50% tax bracket. So yeah, slash your numbers in half.

              No one with a family lives in London long in this industry. It just doesn't make sense. You can get double or triple the space while only adding about 10 minutes to your commute if you live outside of London (fast trains into the city centre). Keep in mind nice properties go for about £1000/ sq ft

              [–]considerthis215 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Are you a quant? I've got degrees in engineering and mathematics. Starting to learn program on my own and revising all my old coursework.

              Any tips on how to contact people in the industry?

              [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

              Occupation: Senior Data Engineer. Job responsibilities include using Oracle-stack applications (Informatica, Toad, versioning and change management softwares) to ensure proper data flow for a large financial firm.

              How did you start out? I grew up in rural Colorado with lazy and poor parents. They divorced when I was 8, and my mom spent the next 10 years between crappy jobs and cancer treatments. My dad was in and out, mostly because he wanted to spend time with me but couldn't stand my mother. We lived in Government Assistance housing for ~12 years, and received Food Stamps, AFDC (TANF of the '90s), and a few other government benefits. We went to food banks once a week, got vouchers for things like eyeglasses and car gas, and just generally mooched off of society for most of my pre-teen years. Of course, my mom and dad both smoked 1-2 packs a day, and there were always donuts for breakfast and Pepsi's in the fridge. Later on in my childhood, my mother was one of the "working moms" Bill Clinton worked so hard to create - she was a professional student for 2 years, with the end game being an Associate's Degree in Accounting and a subsequent $10 an hour job. She got vaccinated to take the job, and claimed allergic reaction to the immunization, absorbing more money from Disability and later settling a lawsuit against the medical insurance company of her employer for her "pain" due to Fibromyalgia.

              I worked a part-time job pushing carts and a full-time job answering phones at a call center at the same time I was a senior in High School, and I graduated High School shortly after all of the immunization lawsuit stuff (2.7 GPA at a charter school), I took about a year off from college, and then kept working a full-time job as a cell phone salesman while I plugged away at Junior Colleges for the better part of three years to finish my first two years of Undergrad.

              Where did you acquire the information you needed to get started and become successful? I began my career as a Workforce Analyst for a major flight retailer, then transitioned into Business Analysis and, later, Database Development. I took Robert Kiyosaki's "find the one skill you need to double your income" advice to heart, and for the better part of 6 years, I bought every single book I ever needed on Amazon.com. Using books and spare time, I taught myself Microsoft Office (Excel and Access particularly), ANSI SQL, and all of the necessary organizational knowledge (Kimball DW methodology, Agile / Waterfall SDLC concepts, etc). I also made good use of student discounts to pick up cheap, legal versions of Microsoft Office, Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio, and a few other components that helped me hone my skills. I built a database with baseball data and used my knowledge of advanced baseball statistics to teach myself everything at a conceptual level.

              What were the struggles/obstacles? What is the reality that most get wrong or need to prepare for? The most important takeaway from my life is that FORTY HOURS A WEEK IS NOT ENOUGH IN 2016 AMERICA. I grew up poor, and had to work 60, 70, 80 hours a week at a full-time job, night school or online classes, and self-taught software / coding / scripting skills. While my friends were goofing off in college, wasting their 80k on worthless degrees and generally being dumb, I was in my homemade lab learning how to query. While my buddies were out at bars hitting on chicks, I was studying for certifications. While my buddies were getting married to the first pretty girl that winked at them, I was learning Python. If you come from wealth or means, your parents can probably float you the money you need to only have to work 40 hours a week. If not, you'll have to do what I did: work 40 hours a week to support yourself and then find another 40 hours a week to do the same amount of learning as everyone else.

              What strategy did you implement? To offer a baseball metaphor, there are two strategies towards building a World Series-caliber team. You can either tank for a few years and start to build a dominant farm system that you can then use to get talented players at the Major League level (think about the Cubs this year), or you can take a roster, and just start replacing your worst player over and over until your team is really good (think about the Detroit Tigers of the early 2010's). Both strategies work, but some teams don't have the luxury of tanking for a few years, so they just need to fix their biggest weakness and then move on to addressing their next biggest. To me, this is very similar to how you get a $100k+ career - either you go completely into the tank for 4-6 years, borrow a shit ton of money for college, intern for a good company and get into a good job when you get out, or you take what you already know, add a skill, add another skill, add a third skill, and move up the ladder every time you learn something else. Both paths work if you do them right, but my strategy was definitely the latter and not the former.

              Where do you look for customers? I live in a major market with less than 3% unemployment in the tech center. I haven't posted a resume online in 4 months and I still get 5-10 calls a week offering me jobs. When you're good enough, they come to you.

              Are you married? Do you have a family? I got married a little more than a year ago to a TRP woman 6 years younger than me. She knows that the most important thing in my life is my career, so she willingly takes a backseat and doesn't give me any shit. She currently works as a nanny and does all the cooking and cleaning while I finish my Master's Degree and take the next step in my career (likely to be Machine Learning). We don't have kids yet, and we'll likely wait a few more years until the house is paid off and I've doubled my income twice more before we consider children.

              How long have you been at it? Do you enjoy it? I've been on this career path for a little more than 6 years. I enjoy the quick upward mobility and the daily focus on learning how to do new things. The pay is also quite good, and it sure as hell beats dealing with idiot customers or social justice coworkers like I've done at other jobs.

              Comments 95% of people in this country live two paychecks in advance. Be the 1 in 20 who doesn't. Either completely tank for a few years to turn your life around, or fix your holes one at a time until you're worth 100k+. Don't rely on worthless idiot politicians to fix things for you, and don't wait for the right opportunities to find you - identify what you need to work on and do it on your own time.

              Side note: I am legally required to disclose that, although I am employed by a large financial institution, I am not a Professional Financial Advisor, and that all of the following advice is generalized and descriptive of a simple overall investment strategy, rather than being an advocacy for any particular type or form of investment. ALWAYS PAY YOURSELF FIRST. Learn to save 10% of your income in a bank account that you don't even consider touching. Take all possible free 401k match from any employer who offers it. Once you've got enough money saved to cover all of your bills for 6 months, begin moving money into less liquid, higher-yielding investments. DO NOT SPEND MONEY AS FAST AS YOU EARN IT. Establish a standard of living and do not change it, no matter what happens to your income. Read Robert Kiyosaki's writings and learn the difference between assets and liabilities, and only invest your money into assets. A HOUSE THAT YOU LIVE IN IS NOT AN ASSET. I fully and whole-heartedly recommend meeting with a Professional Financial Advisor who can give you much more specific and detailed information that is tailored to your individual situation.

              [–]abdada 33 points34 points  (22 children)

              Occupation Business consultant

              I've been working on a fluctuating real time pricing rate for almost 10 years.

              My clients book me on my calendar and see the rate for any time frame, which fluctuates based on demand.

              Last week I worked for $280/hour emergency rate one morning and later that day took a $12/hour rate for the last 3 hours because I was nearby and the client said he didn't care what day I came in.

              Works great.

              I also don't take weekends or holidays -- instead of 140 days off a year in 2-3 day runs every week, I take 20-28 vacations a year totalling 140 days in 5-7 day runs.

              [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 7 points8 points  (7 children)

              How does one become a business consultant? What kind of things do you consult on?

              [–]abdada 9 points10 points  (6 children)

              One and two man startups are my pride and joy but my main income for the past 20 years was/is B2B integration on new hospital projects.

              Starting next year I hope to double the first category and halve the latter, if this go well this year. I want out of the medical market before I'm 50, and the future of this economy is more small businesses again.

              edit How does one become one? Intern under one. I had two mentors from 16-19 and I came into my own by 21. Busted my ass for 4 years for shit pay absorbing everything I could because I had the opportunity.

              [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

              What makes a 16 year old seek mentorship in business consultancy? What topics did you cover? (ie marketing strategy? customer acquisition? price models?)

              [–]abdada 14 points15 points  (4 children)

              I hated being in high school and college looked like monotony. I started my first successful business at 13 and sold it successfully by 18. They say my race has entrepreneurship in our blood but dad was an immigrant grunt working for the man so maybe it's true.

              My primary role as a consultant is to mediate lies, deceit and trickery between two contract companies. I look for bullshit and then arbitrate before the toxicity turns deadly to the job. You can't have a soft or shy demeanor when working with trades who are used to yelling and screaming on the top.

              In helping small startups my guidance falls towards finding a profitable niche in a sea of options. Everyone thinks that life is above the waves and forgets to look in the books and crannies under water. I help small businesses find niche markets to target. Profitably.

              I think all young men/boys need more time interning during high school. Shadow a mechanic. Help an accountant during tax season. Unload supplies at a production company. Whatever you can do to watch a pro at work. Right now they hire Mexican day laborers for so many jobs that young guys can be doing before or after school or even on weekends.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I help small businesses find niche markets to target. Profitably.

              If you're good at finding business opportunities, why don't you start a business yourself? I'm not trying to criticize, I'm genuinely curious as to what your reasons are. I would imagine that having a business is much more scalable (more money for less time) than being a consultant - unless e.g. your compensation is also based on the subsequent profits your ideas bring in.

              [–]abdada 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              I do, sometimes a few times a year. This week I am helping start a Serengeti safari business in Tanzania I have been thinking about for years (I go once every year or two). I own a few print shops and have had money in bars and restaurants.

              The thing is, I'm not rich. Not by any means. You don't need to be rich to succeed in business.

              Consulting is more fun and much more exciting as I get to work the riskiest part many times a year versus once or twice a year.

              When a business I own and startup succeeds, it gets boring. Accountants and lawyers and Yelp and shit. I like the bootstrapping, the risk of failure, etc.

              [–]wakocid 6 points7 points  (1 child)

              Did anyone in the US catch the 140 days off, a year....?

              [–]abdada 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              Everyone world wide gets around that much time off a year.

              • Saturdays off: 52
              • Sundays off: 52
              • Paid holidays: 4-8
              • Vacation days: 10-20

              I take anywhere from 110 to 140 days a year off depending on income. I just don't take the same days off that you do.

              I work Sundays because 75% of America is out spending money today. So I'm making money when the market is ripe, my competitors are all closed.

              If you were considering quitting your job and starting a business, would you more likely be free Wednesday at 2pm or Sunday at 11am?

              [–]KurrKurr 1 point2 points  (11 children)

              How does your pricing scheme work? Do you have a tool, a website? How are you calculating your "fluctuating hourly rate" AND make it stay "fair" all the time? (i.e. customers don't begin to say "But last time it wasn't urgent either and now you charge more. We'd like the price from last time, because nothing is different now...")

              [–]abdada 5 points6 points  (10 children)

              The calendar code looks at my income trends and if I'm overworking myself or overearning it sets my rate higher.

              I love working so this has the advantage of forcing me to rest as my rate trickles up.

              [–]LolBrah123 34 points35 points  (15 children)

              FTSE100 Index Trader. A year out of high school, studying as well.

              At the moment, you'd need about 400 USD to get in on a share. With one share, you could safely make up to 80 USD of profit a day. I live in Central/Eastern Europe, and if you do this 5 days a week, you'll have a great part-time salary allowing you to study or do your 'main' job.

              The initial investment can be easily made doing part-time work. Took me about 12 shifts at a warehouse to get the sum needed.


              • Actively trade only in the morning, during Asian/European hours. Once the US gets in, the index becomes a little more chaotic.

              • Set a very low loss and profit ceiling. About 10 points of loss is acceptable (~$12) from one share, and 25 points of profit (just under $30). As soon as the index starts moving towards your goal, set the loss back to the price you bought/sold it for, so you don't lose any money if it drives back before it hits your profit target.

              • Only trade at 'round levels', e.g. 6000, 6050, 6100. People like round numbers, each 'level' will have many buy/sell orders by the big players which will shake the index up.

              • Get in on a share at round levels if there has been a build-up movement before. A fall/rise of the price will have inertia, just enough to get to your small profit ceiling, after which you wait once again for the price to approach the next round level, rinse and repeat.

              (To explain why we set the profit low (midway through our round level - e.g. if you bought at 6100, you will sell at 6125), is because once the index starts moving, the big players begin to set up 'traps'. They will attempt to throw off us (the peasants) at certain stop-loss and target levels from the movement. Sometimes it's better to set up your profit at 15 points, or even lower, depending on how much the index had already fallen/risen over the course of the day, and previous working days.)

              • Set goals for the night - once the European market closes, you set up a purchase/sell (short) order according to the above strategy, and go out and do your thing, and check your account the next morning.

              • Set a profit goal (e.g. get 50 points net profit a day) and a loss goal and shut off the PC and go outside once you reach either. It's easy to get carried away, especially when you've lost a few deals in a row and are feeling bitter.

              This isn't a fool-proof strategy, of course. For example, quarterly reports (especially in countries like the USA) will shake up the index, so it'd be best not to trade on those days. Events like a terrorist attack, a controversial statement by a politician, scandals etc. will also make everything a little hectic.

              But overall, it's a great low-risk investment, especially for a poor student. You could even make this a full-time job, devoting a few hours a day and only looking at the index once it approaches our round levels (in the meantime, reading, listening to music, watching a movie, working out... you name it).

              [–]twy3440 6 points7 points  (2 children)

              Are you using technical analysis or just watching price movement? Have you looked at the Turtle Trading methods and so-called trend trading?

              I think what you're saying is really interesting. Try to make a little bit on trades. Could you make larger amounts seeking longer movements backed by fundamental or trend analysis? You might have to seek other markets as well. I've learned a lot from this website:


              And this one has good information and webinars:


              Both have free trials.

              [–]hb8only 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              At the moment, you'd need about 400 USD to get in on a share. With one share, you could safely make up to 80 USD of profit a day.

              well.. the word "could" is very important here :)

              [–]Darkone06 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              I just got started in the forex markets this year. I had a bit of experience with the terminology and concept from trading bitcoins in btc-e.

              I'm still in the hole right now but in the last two weeks I have had a $200 day on my live account.

              I go back and forward between demo and live. I feel confident that if I keep at it I could easily make $1000 a day by the end of the year.

              It's just about getting online and learning it.

              If you want to get started go to babypips.com and tradersway.com and just start a demo account.

              There are lots of different strategies on YouTube. Experiment with different ones and find one that is realistic to your time frames and realistic staying point. Do $500 or $1k demo instead on $100k unless you can really put that money on your account don't demo with it. It will set really unobtainable goals and expectations in your head.

              [–]jeezydasnowman 58 points59 points  (43 children)

              I work for minimum wage and sell weed only.

              I have found a niche delivering to the wealthy since I have a nice car and can get good quality for my area (bible belt). I am very lucky that I have quickly learned from mistakes and is been a huge strengthening of frame + outcome independence.

              [–]sir_wankalot_here 48 points49 points  (1 child)

              Not sure if this guy is serious or not. But he has a good marketing model. Since he only has elite clientele that minimizes his chances of being prosecuted drastically.

              He hints that some of his clentele are pillars of the community and he lives in the Bible belt. If he goes down he will bring a lot of other people down with him.

              Not advocating illegal activity, but his method has a lot of merit to it.

              [–]jeezydasnowman 22 points23 points  (0 children)

              It's huge social proof too I could get a real cushy job based off who I know once I get there.

              [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 10 points11 points  (19 children)

              How do you manage to stay under the IRS radar?

              Minimum wage job + nice car = alarm.

              [–]VectorVictorious 24 points25 points  (14 children)

              IRS doesn't care how you earned your money, only that you pay them their share.

              [–]forgetful_storytellr 7 points8 points  (13 children)

              So how do you file "weed salesman" on your I-9?

              [–]VectorVictorious 26 points27 points  (0 children)

              You tell them you are self employed or recycle cans or whatever. They are accountants not law enforcement.

              [–]michael_wilkins 19 points20 points  (4 children)

              There is a line to declare income obtained through illegal means.

              [–]1htbf 6 points7 points  (2 children)

              Seriously ? And people just fill that ?

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Probably not, but maybe. The law states they can't use it as grounds to investigate you. It also doesn't protect you from being arrested/charged for your activity. However it does protect you from being arrested/charged for tax fraud. That's what Al Capone was convicted on.

              Not a lawyer, but it might make it significantly harder for the government to seize your assets.

              It should protect against, "He's got piles of money but we can't link him to the crime. Good thing we can take all these assets/$ and take him to court for tax fraud."

              Let's say you did a drug deal that made you more than enough to retire on, and you did retire on it. It's unlikely you'll ever be connected/convicted for that drug trade. The drugs are long gone. But you do have a boatload of cash. If you use that cash, the government can come after you for why you didn't pay tax, x, y, z.

              If you're now completely legitimate, your options are to launder that cash (doing more illegal shit), or maybe, your accountant/lawyer would have a good reason for convincing you to declare it. Especially if they think an investigation is in the pipeline.

              [–]IKickHorses 3 points4 points  (1 child)

              Nice enough car to not offend the clients' neighbors, low key enough to not trip alarms at the IRS. Having lived near a prestige university, no real income and a nice car is not incongruent.

              [–]1Str8_Pillin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Buy all your small stuff in cash (appliances, clothes, food), and throw all of your "real" income at the stuff you finance so it looks legitimate.

              They explain it in The Seven Five. It's a pretty cool documentary about NY cops that became corrupt drug dealers back in the 80's

              [–]jdot21 2 points3 points  (4 children)

              How did you go about getting wealthy customers?

              [–]jeezydasnowman 14 points15 points  (0 children)

              Being even a decent plug word gets around quick especially if you are good at building trust quickly. It's all networking - meeting potential customers face to face, effectively communicating my value, then doing the same thing with their friends.

              I find people through word of mouth.

              [–]warjesus420 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              I sold weed among many many other things from the age of 15 to 24, it's really not as hard as they make it out to be. Not recommending getting into it btw.

              [–]DaphneDK 7 points8 points  (0 children)

              I’m partner in two IT startup companies. So far they haven’t made me filthy rich, but I do get to work when I want, travel to and live where I want. And there’s a pretty good chance I will become filthy rich in a few years, and in the meantime even a modest salary will give you a pretty good life in Asia. Daily commute to a 9-5 cubicle job would kill me.

              [–]whatwhatinthebutt19 8 points9 points  (4 children)

              I sell cars for a living and at times it can be very slow. I have an investor line account up on my computer. I trade stocks on my downtime. I track my my progress an have made 18 percent since I started. Started in the November with $20000 and now I have $23600. So in 3 months I have made $1200 a month sitting at my desk instead of twiddling my thumbs.

              [–]TRPsn 9 points10 points  (3 children)

              TIL I should've learned how to program and build websites in high school instead of joining the Marines.

              [–]1IamGale 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              Yea that's this moral of the story. Learn a skill that can scale online. Then invest it wisely.

              [–][deleted]  (3 children)


              [–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table 26 points27 points  (3 children)

              Recommended reading: The Richest Man In Babylon Simple, straightforward advice to get you on the road to financial independence.

              [–]sharp7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Yep. I listened to the audible audio version. Its great, the voice and writing used makes it seem so simple that it really infects your brain.

              [–]ChristopherBurr 7 points8 points  (1 child)

              Occupation: Infrastructure Engineer - Investment Banks and Hedge Funds

              What is your alternative revenue stream/unconventional : A - I have a small apartment that I rent out B- I teach classes at a local University part-time

              How did you start out:
              I'm from a lower middle class family -

              My parents didn't have money to send me to college, so I worked the night shift at a local hospital, and did weekends at local bars and clubs as security. I used the money to put myself through community college (part-time) and continued on to a 4 year university (also part-time). As I went through school I was able to pick up a very entry level job in IT, so quit working at the hospital in favor of getting industry experience. As I went through school, I increased my responsibility at work .. and graduated without any student loans.

              When I finished my undergrad coursework, I was offered a part-time position teaching UNIX for an adult education course, so I used my income from that to invest in my Masters degree. Again, no student loans.

              College is invaluable in my job. There are a lot of IT guys who would say otherwise, but you really can't get a gig in the investment banking industry without one.

              What were the struggles/obstacles?
              time management ... otherwise, just put your head down and get it done.

              What strategy did you implement? Just hard work. As technical as my job is, I view it as more of a customer service gig. The people that work at the banks, like dealing with me, because I provide a service. If you have a problem, you come to me and it gets fixed. Other people do only what they have to do - nothing more or less. You won't get a head with that attitude.

              On taxes - I have a good accountant that is always looking for deductions. on Investments, I have a financial advisor, that manages some of my money, and I use Charles Schwab Intelligent portfolios for other things .. I like Charles Schwab because it's no-fee, and a really good ETF. I contribute the max to my 401K (18,500) and get a 9% company match at my current job. And i look for other investments from time to time. I keep thinking real estate, but I don't want to do the leg work. I recently invested in a few real estate funds, but it's too early to tell how they are doing yet.

              Are you married? Do you have a family? Married with two very young kids (6 months and 2) - I'm 45 now so I started with the kids a little late, but I'm established in my career so a lot of the leg work was put in when I was in my 20's and 30's. I have money and time now so the family thing is working out well for me. My wife normally works, but got laid off a few months ago. She's able to sped some time with the kids, but is itching to get back to work. The marriage works well for me. My wife is completely supportive (as I am with her career options). And it's good when two people are working/saving for retirement.and a comfortable life - I wouldn't recommend getting married unless you definitely find the right person. Be careful.

              [–][deleted]  (11 children)


              [–]chances_are_ur_a_fag 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              i have more than one question actually. i don't even get what exactly you're doing. what agents do you have? do you invent products?

              [–]War2kali 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              My two cents on this topic has nothing to do with me or specific professions. When thinking about your lifetime earnings and eventual retirement, never lose sight of the fact that our economic system is called "capitalism." One of the ways to "win" is to accumulate capital. One way to do this is to spend less than you earn and invest the difference.

              If you don't know what to invest in, just put money in the stock market in a low risk way: large index funds with low expenses. Vanguard is king for this. You could simply do half in the largest companies in the world outside the US and half in the largest companies in the US. Done.

              No matter what your career choice, the above applies. You could be a plumber earning 100k/year+ (plumbers and other skilled trades can make great money, by the way, if they are self-employed and work hard), starting work at 18, investing $30k/year, and you will retire much sooner than someone who makes $250k a year and spends $240k a year starting at age 22 after college. I'm not recommending skipping college, it depends on your field. The point is to invest early, invest heavily, and you will accumulate capital and retire far sooner than your average person who spends as much as they earn. It's funny how 99% of people's spending scales directly with their earnings. Live beneath your means and invest, invest, invest.

              [–]awe_some_x 7 points8 points  (11 children)

              Occupation: Cover band musician

              While it's not amazing pay(typically $100-200 a night), once you get your branding and become recognized you can start playing anywhere from 1-5 nights a week. I still maintain a day job(IT consultant), because the money is just too good, and rely on the health insurance and 401k which are things you can't get from playing music unless you get signed by a major label.

              Playing music is much more than just the easy $100 and free drinks though, it's a pretty decent SMV boost as well. "Oh you play in a band?", especially if you're the guitarist, this becomes like shooting fish in a barrel, and can also be an easy way to get females to go out without any money. I've had them come out to a show, buy their own drinks(because I'm too busy on stage), then go home with me that night with literally zero monetary or time investment other than me just doing what I would have done without them at my gig.

              Now this does take some amount of talent, so if you already play an instrument or two, just scour Craigslist for a group looking for one more member. Get yourself a website and Facebook page, and get to work. If you don't already play, you'd be surprised just what you can learn from a couple months of lessons and YouTube tutorials. I'm lucky in that I play several instruments(been playing since I was 8), so I occasionally fill in on guitar/bass for other groups that I know. It really comes down to who you know, just like every other profession.

              The pay is typically cash under the table, but once you get more recognized and play nicer venues, they will start paying with a check and/or getting you with a 1099. In this case, keep a detailed log of all your shows, and how far you drove. In my situation, I play on vintage amps that require semi-annual maintenance, so I keep those receipts as well for deductions come tax time. I claimed an additional $10,000 on this year's taxes, and thanks to all my repairs and travel, was only very minimally penalized on my return for 2015.

              tl;dr: play music, get a benjamin and drink for free every night, instant SMV augmentation. Keep records if you play more than once a week.

              [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              Occupation: High paid salary man who lives like a college student.

              I have a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering, did 6 years in the Navy, and probably going to take a job as a maintenance manager at a pharmaceutical company, or a sales engineer for a boiler company.

              I am going to work no matter what, and I am not against working for the man. They only get out of me what I am willing to put in. The thing that has allowed me to stay financially free, is just living like a poor piece of shit. I had fun in college living off very little, so I keep doing it. All the while I am making more and more money.

              [–]dons90 5 points6 points  (7 children)

              I swear I'm going to take all the advice I read here and become successful within the next 5 years. Thank you TRP in advance. Wish me luck.

              [–]sunderfrost 6 points7 points  (0 children)

              I work as an information security engineer in one of the top 5 fastest growing markets. Only been in the industry for ~2 years, and achieving certifications right now. Underpaid ($57k/yr) atm for market value, but company does have a great work life balance, so while I'm not complaining, I will seek to change this mid-year due to me also doing penetration testing, vulnerability assessments and social engineering. Basically playing the hacker. That's $$$ experience.

              Since the market is severely in demand but understaffed link for proof I've been brainstorming an idea that applies to the specific industry I'm in, that I could work up on the side.

              In the past I owned an eCommerce store that sold candles that smelled like high octane gas and burnt rubber, inspired from a Yankee Candle photoshop. It was doing alright, I didn't put forth a lot of effort once my main job shifted me to days and demanded more of time and attention. A competitor offered me $250k + 10% of all sales, so I sold it.

              Not married, no family. At this point, burned out from dating, so about to go monk mode, focus on myself and my career, since I'm 28 now, I can make six figures by 30 just by working 40 hours a week at my main job. Leaves me the time and money to work on passive income.

              [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

              On my way to building my construction company to the point where I can step back and simply manage projects without the need to always be on site. All trades sub-contracted out i.e Tiling, plastering, electrical, plumbing. And eventually find a trustworthy foreman who can manage the framing and apprentices/labourers.

              My end goal is the ability to take 3 to 4 months off each year to go surfing in indonesia, training in thailand or similar. And when I am back home all I will be doing is tendering for work, meeting clients and working on systems to make the business as efficient as possible.

              A huge bonus that comes with working in a trade, especially in domestic construction, is the ability to do cash work. Almost any client will pay cash when you give them the offer of a lower price for paying cash. we recently did a deck and some outdoor seating and the client paid 25k cash. 25k that won't be subject to tax, and can be used to pay other trades for their services -also at a cheaper rate as they avoid tax too. We all win.

              [–]TheRedChemist 11 points12 points  (4 children)

              I'm going to have to be pretty vague here but hopefully it will still be some use. I live in an industrial warehouse.

              I work as a CAD engineer in the automotive sector. I recently switched from permanent staff to working on a contract basis - it's more lucrative. In my industry contract roles have basically the same job security as permanent but none of the benefits. However, they are paid more to compensate, and enjoy some financial perks because they pay themselves through their own small company, and thus have a number of (perfectly legal) options how to get money out of the company and into their own personal account, meaning you can do it in a more tax efficient way than a permanent employee. I hopped from my permanent role to an entry-level contract role because I wasn't trained in the software the new company uses (still a pay increase), then after 6 months in that role hopped to a better paying role with the same company. I'm now looking at branch swinging back to the company I used to be permanent with (including a higher contract rate of course). I'm not in the US but I'm currently paid approx $36/hr for 40hrs a week and this is about the average in the field, with very experienced guys able to command $45, maybe $50 if they are unusually valuable. For context, the rent on my last place - a small 2 bedroom house - was $970/mo.

              The warehouse came about because I want to develop and sell my own products, and I can now do so through my company that I had to start for the contract work. Although I'm proficient in design using CAD, it's expensive to produce things that way, so I thought I'd try to do it by hand first. I need a large dry space to work for that, and in my country it's rare to find a house with garage at all unless you're paying top end rent - even then, it'll be too small for me to work in. I couldn't afford a place of my own AND a separate workshop property, and I don't like housesharing.

              I took the plunge and signed a lease on this warehouse through the company. It's well located, a decent size, clean and light etc.Using it as sleeping accommodation is strictly forbidden in that contract, but my research suggests that the worst that could happen is forfeiting my deposit and being kicked out. Hopefully, even if the landlord finds out, he will turn a blind eye as long as he keeps getting his rent. It's a calculated risk that I decided is worth taking. I immediately built a walled off bedroom area so a cursory inspection doesn't see anything unusual.

              In terms of products, I mainly want to develop this stuff for my own use, and if I can sell a few and have the hobby pay for itself then that's great. If I can one day give up the day job that would be incredible, but I'm not holding my breath. Basically all the money I earn from the day job gets funnelled back into the project. Since I now don't personally need money for rent, as the company rents the warehouse making it tax deductible, I end up only needing enough personal money for food and my previous debts etc. Everything eise stays in the business and is used for development, making it tax deductible. I'd be doing this stuff as a hobby anyway, but back in the day I'd get taxed on the money I earned and then have to pay tax on the stuff I bought with what was left. Now I bypass most of that.

              I'm halfway through developing my first product and have discovered I definitely do not have the skills or patience required to do it by hand in future. I'll still finish this project, but future projects I will do exactly as I do in my day job - CAD design parts and then farm them out to external suppliers to do the production work, receiving completed finished parts in the mail a few months later. It's also wound up not being much cheaper doing it myself anyway; I've spent 60-70% of the cost of paying someone else to do it all BUT I'm not even finished yet. I was expecting total spend to be around 30%. Lesson learned.

              Arguably farming the entire production out to external suppliers makes the warehouse redundant, but it's still useful for other stages of the developement process - and if nothing else, I could use it for pure storage. To be honest the lifestyle kinda suits me. And yes, I do have women back here. It's now seen as much action as my last actual house.

              I have a game plan for at least 2 more products after this first one is complete, one of which has quite a broad potential customer base and may make for a nice income. Ideally I'd totally detach myself from the actual physical products side of things and work purely on design, but I want to build a recognised brand, I don't want to just license out my designs. Call it vain I guess but I want that respect and "fame". Totally detaching from production but maintaining the brand requires trusting a partner to handle sales and distribution on my behalf, and I'm not sure about that yet - I could draw up all the legal contracts I like but the nature of the market means the kind of businesses I'd be dealing with are pretty small operations that could very easily rip me off, and the only way to get the money they owe would be lengthy and expensive court proceedings. So for now I think I have to do it myself.

              [–]chaserjacer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              This is actually amazing! I've been playing around with some CAD Software for a few months now and really enjoy it a lot. I've been looking to find a way to actually monetize it in a significant way, aside from small side projects. How did you get into this, was this all post-degree? And if you could give me some pointers or resources to read up on, on how to be able to work those tax deductions, I'd greatly appreciate it!

              [–]Lord_shitmeister 14 points15 points  (12 children)

              Occupation weed wholesale grower: so I grow some plants in a box, don't forget to use odor neutralizing ONA gel, carbon filter. Then I dry them, package them and sell them wholesale (less risky). They grow in 2 months, Use autos it's much faster, they sell for about 5000. I'm growing in 3 m2. Grey legality where I live making it perfect risk/reward ratio.


              Occupation website local seller: I get guys on freelancer that are dirt cheap, get them to work for me on a basis that they get paid only if we have a contract then I advertise a CHEAP website design business locally in my town and sell apps and sites that I don't even make, I'm just the middle man. People want someone close by. Income from that about 3000 per month for 5 sites. Sometimes more.


              Cialis pill vendor on small ads: Go to a doctor, get a prescription for limpdickitis, buy a box of the cheapest ones (5 mg) then sell them pill by pill on a web site like craigslist. Narcs don't give 2 shits about dick pills. Income: about 500 per month. 1 sells for 30.

              [–]1IamGale 3 points4 points  (4 children)


              1. How much do you charge to create a website on average?

              2. Is it annoying to meet up with random people on craigslist or do you just have them come to you?

              3. Where do you advertise cheap website design?

              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

              And with Cialis your customer base is probably all dudes which is good.

              [–]r3dast3rik09 3 points4 points  (6 children)

              Private tutor/college consultant.

              Finished undergrad, needed to start making money the summer before grad school. Started teaching math and science prep courses and 1:1 at a private tutoring academy by my house and HS (I live in a city in the Bay Area where competitive high schools and Asians/Indians in STEM/business are the majority residents). I went to the high school where my company gets 90% of its students from and I aced these subjects in college and HS.

              Continued this on my summers off during my MS. Took the past year off to apply for med school and began working more. Realized in September how much of a cut the company was actually taking (70%) considering I was doing all the actual work and they were simply matching me with students. The parents, while they have the money, are paying way too much tbh, it's outrageous (mid-$100s). I write all my class and tutoring materials from scratch and my record with students has been raising their grade an entire letter grade at least, consistently. I know the teachers at my alma mater and their styles, so I model my teaching and prep to be tougher than what they will be expected in the classroom so that they know their shit well. Internal changes in the company too were starting to be annoying to deal with and too much extra bullshit. Plus while I didn't have any issues with parents, many other of my coworkers were getting fucked over by ingrate parents and their children complaining about dumb shit without basis. Sadly, my company bends over backwards for parents while nailing staff.

              Our new manager started in August, a man replacing the woman who ran the place. She wasn't bad, but there's finally a system of order and accountability where teachers/college consultants are protected. In the event of a complaint rather than censuring the staff member without actually thinking (how the woman did it), our new male manager actually speaks with us to figure it out. According to him 80-90% of the time, it's an incorrect assumption made by parents or a ploy to get either a refund or something we contractually cannot do. She was hot for sure but trash at the finer aspects of management. The head of our company doesn't like that our new manager is firm and impartial claiming "we're pushing away clients and families" but our branch is the top performing one ever since our management changed.

              Once I got into med school in October, I decided to privately tutor freelance. Made a website, ordered business cards, began working with family friends as my client base. As well as referrals, also began advertising in my neighborhood via social media apps. I charge 1/3 of what my company does but I get all the cut. Make my own schedule, don't got to deal with any management bullshit. I still work for my company but I'm not poaching any clients. It took off a bit slowly but I wanted to established a solid baseline. Also began college consulting on the side as well so applications, planning out HS activities and summer programs, the works.

              Having gone to a top 25 undergrad with a half-ride on merit, being a success in a way with getting into med school, and having gone to the same HS as most of my students are probably my greatest selling points and parents . And my work. I have always made sure from day 1 I'm great at what I do.

              Right now I still work for my company and independently, probably a 50:50 split. Got 10 regular students from each. It's hectic some days, working in last minute sessions and shit of that nature. It's hard learning to keep these two jobs separate. But I love it bc I get to be my own boss, it keeps me engaged and busy, I feel like I'm actually making somewhat of a difference, and the money is superb, much better since I started going independent. I live at home with my parents so I'm essentially saving 70% of my income and the remaining 30% on repaying student loans and socialization/personal expenses.

              I'm about 2/3 of the way to my personal goal of $25K in my savings account and by the time I leave in July/August I'm on track to get there.

              [–]powderhound100 3 points4 points  (2 children)

              Honestly from reading this I sounds like thre is no need to charge 1/3 of what your company does, no need to undervalue yourself. You took the time to make a website, business cards etc, you write your own lesson plans, increase people's grades and are great at what you do. You offer as much value as the company, parents are clearly willing to pay a premium price when their kids are tutored by this company, they would be willing to pay that for you.

              [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              What /u/powerhound100 said. It's proven that these customers are willing to pay a premium. Match your company to increase profits.

              [–]ShekelBanker 5 points6 points  (3 children)


              I work selling options to people, essentially cold calling anything between 200 to 400 people a day around the planet in order to assist potential clients who have shown an interest in starting to trade to open up an account. The company I work for is legitimate and regulated, so there is nothing of the Boiler Room sort going on. Aside from that, when said clients open accounts, there is a department essentially holding their hands through the entire trading process, so with them it's easy money to be made. There have been cases when customers decided to take the entire thing by themselves and absolutely annihilated their own account and tried to pin their fault on us. There are certain limitations present, like no more than 20% of the account's total can be used for a single trade, there is no leverage to talk about and so on and so forth, so from the company's end a lot had been done to reduce risks.


              Still have to look into that, since I just started last week. While the initial pay can just cover average rent where I live, there is some reliance on commissions, and the commissions scheme is nothing obscene (again, this isn't Boiler Room) but if you close a minimum of, say, 10 deposits a month, depending on the sum of money clients deposited you could be making anywhere from 50% more to 125% more over the average salary of the average person.

              Other details

              The catch is, and the main thing I'm struggling with is that, since the company isn't big nor well-known, you can't act or sell in a professional or serious way, since 99.5% of people you're calling are Average Joes. People who do best here are those who talk in a clever/funny way on the phone, and that is something I'm struggling with because, as much as I don't like appealing to stereotypes, I'm German and Germans are not known for their sense of humour or lack of seriousness, and it's not only me who has spotted this affecting my performance. Other people who are way higher than me on the totem pole but who I trust, most importantly, told me exactly the same thing. Issue is that, for better or worse, that's who I am and changing that is a bit like pissing against the wind: you risk getting wet.

              Plans for the future

              Well, saying "plans" is a bit of a longshot since I realised that things are not set in stone. Originally my background is in trading securities (stocks mostly) and anything to do with finance: accounting (not yet certified nor intending to get certified, not my kind of thing to crunch numbers all day long), marketing and economics. I picked this job because it allowed me to develop my sales expertise, as in having a practical way to learn and apply as well as form a style of selling things. In the longer span on time, I want to own a set of cars, have the ability to work on car projects and own a house to, well, house all these things in. Family-wise I'd like to have at least 2 kids, but that in particular will remain to be seen.

              [–]Marr0w1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

              Occupation - 9-5 low paying public sector However it's usually pretty relaxed which means I can spend a lot of time working out and focusing on 'side game'. This generally means investing in stocks, studying uni papers, and other projects. Due to public sector, my living costs are very low. Currently I just sold my house and I'm spending most my time at work organising a cafe/bar I'm opening this year. Even then I'll continue with my 9-5 because I enjoy it and the perks are good.

              TlDr: not super unusual, but work a shit paying job I enjoy while trying to make extra on the side. Sorry for formatting.

              [–]get-a-way 4 points5 points  (7 children)

              This looks interesting. Bit late to the party but what the hell:

              What is your alternative revenue stream/unconventional occupation/unconventional lifestyle?

              I am a cadet, i 'work' about an hour a day plus one weekend a month, and two weeks in the summer. From this I get paid around 36k a year. About 12k of that goes to pay for my tuition leaving me with about 22k a year tax free.

              As for passive income i have about 3k in a website called prosper.com, which nets me about 14% return a year. Its basically a peer to peer lending site where you pool your money with other investors and loan it out to people who pay it back like a regular bank loan. You may have heard of its competitor lendingclub, basically the same thing.

              The prosper is my savings, the cadet thing pays the bills and gives me enough money to hit the bars on weekends without having to worry. I feel pretty independent, just have to give up a small amount of free time and i get to live the college life

              [–]Gelu_sf 8 points9 points  (2 children)

              Occupation: self-employed developer

              Been programming since the 80s, currently on my own.

              Right now I'm working on a mix of my own projects. On top of that I'm consulting/freelancing which allows me increase my monetary safety net with about 2-3 months per worked month. Also have a stake in companies that bring some revenue each year.

              The pluses of this field is that you never do the same thing twice. Even if you make a clone you still have to work on something new and think about new solutions. Keeps the mind sharp. Also, from the money point of view there's a chance of getting a huge burst of cash if you do something good.

              The minuses are the incredible competition and luck with discovery for your projects. Everyone and their dog makes games and apps, so having something special to stand out from the crowd is critical.

              [–][deleted]  (3 children)


              [–]chances_are_ur_a_fag 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              you mean you sell weed on the beach?

              [–]Moneyley 3 points4 points  (4 children)

              I work full time as a csr however had previously passed a test to become a licensed insurance agent. So I get my hourly pay close to $20 an hour but if sales calls come in, I close them and get lifetime commissions off the sale. I probably make an extra $1000k a month just from accumulated commissions.

              [–]ShekelBanker 1 point2 points  (3 children)

              CSR being Corporate Social Responsibility, or something else? Sorry, you've been a little vague there.

              Also is the $1000k figure real or did you add another zero by mistake? How can you make $1mil out of commissions alone?

              [–]Hamilton950B 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Customer Service Representative

              [–]DopamineDripz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              I work a physically demanding factory job that pays 18 an hour and has great benefits, decent for Midwest . We walk 10-12 miles and work is fast paced daily but I enjoy it. On the side I do massage therapy for 1-3 clients weekly.

              [–]GodDamnManlyMan 3 points4 points  (4 children)

              I make $400 a day tree planting for 5 months and spend the rest of the year living in Thailand

              [–]Mihawk01 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              How on earth do you make 400 a day tree planting? Is that a normal rate for planting trees in US?

              [–]GodDamnManlyMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Its a rate that comes with experience.. and a love for the job. it's piece work and done in Western Canada.

              [–]minneapolisbiker 9 points10 points  (6 children)

              i make 300k a year. i'm a consultant in the healthcare space, i try to streamline workflows and maximize the revenue in client hospitals.

              about me. pretty smart i guess (1550 SAT, top 10 uni), but pretty lazy. tried banking, didn't like it much, mostly because of the hours, but it was in the healthcare vertical and i made some contacts there which i managed to leverage into what im doing now.

              the hours are nice (work 4 days a week, probably about 35 hours), the work is pretty good/low pressure, and it affords me time to pursue my hobbies and interests (weightlifting, learning coding, traveling).

              [–]1IamGale 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              Where does your interest of coding come from?

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Please talk more about this. How did you get this job? What qualified you for the job? How did you outcompete others?

              [–]_J_J_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              Occupation: Online Entrepeneur

              I'm a Computer Science student and have a few online income streams.

              • I run a semi successful website with an Android app + iOS app, averaging €30/day profit with income from ads and affiliate links

              • I sell cheap automation software, averaging €20/day profit

              • I also develop custom software from people ranging from scripts to websites to apps.

              The great thing about online income streams is that you earn money every day. Once the product is online and you establish customers the money keeps flowing in. I earn €50/day for every day of the month, roughly €1500/month. Updating and improving the software only costs me 5-10 hours a week. I earn more than people working 40 hour/week entry jobs.

              How I started out: I started programming four years ago and I got hooked. Turns out I can learn things very quick and remember it forever. This is also when I decided to study Computer Science. I used the knowledge I gained during lectures and classes on my sideprojects.

              How I got users: word of mouth really and rising in the charts. People know I'm a good programmer and deliver updates on a solid bases. I'm a very honest and blunt guy. Customers know exactly what they can expect.

              Anyways, I should graduate this year and hope to get accepted into a Master programme with a focus on entrepeneurship and software engineering, with no tuition. My website has the potential to grow even bigger and I want to start selling my own products instead of linking to others with affiliate links. I'm working on a new paid app which might earn me some extra money as well.

              All in all I'm strongly considering to work full time on my own range of software. All of this has been developed in my spare time, roughly 10 hours a week. Imagine what I can do if I spend 40-60 hours a week..!

              [–][deleted]  (4 children)


              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              What is your alternative revenue stream/unconventional occupation/unconventional lifestyle?

              Technical College Student at the moment but on leave I shall become an Automation Controls Systems Engineer.

              How did you start out?

              I have been programming and doing Electronics for a long time (Since I was 10). While I was still at High School, I went on a School Trip to a STEM Event for Robotics. Now, robotics was an industry I had a big interest in but nothing big but I thought for the trip I would bring along some of my projects that I had done in the past.

              An Engineer who was volunteering at the event came over to the table I was sitting at, I introduced myself and we began a small chat about robotics and I found out he was in PLC Programming/Robotics so I showed him my work. He offered me work experience which is something that Year 10 Students in the UK have to do and usually it is at a shitty corner shop but I managed to snag a multinational engineering company!

              The work experience was fantastic as I was around people with similar interests, similar values (No PC BS), and knowlege. In contrast, when I got back to school I found myself counting down the days until I left school becuase it became a culture shock and I had enough of Education.

              Did you go to community college, university or receive graduate or doctoral education?

              I am currently attending a Technical College for Engineering. In the UK, Higher Education is set up into:

              A) Sixth Form's offering A Levels


              B) Technical Colleges offering BTEC's. The general consensus for Sixth Form was that they were for the more academically able while Technical Colleges were more practical in delivery.

              This factor caused me a lot of grief with my School as I had to deal with Careers Advisors who had no idea what they were talking about and insisted that I did A Levels purely for the reason that "It gives me more options if I change my mind". I was pretty adamant that I was going to go into the Engineering Profession so I didn't listen. This was because if I did the BTEC, I would gain practical skills in Lathe operation, Milling, Welding, Soldering and theoretical skills in Mechanical and Electronic Engineering which would have put me in better stead for a Job than some A Level Student who had to do BS such as General Studies and Critical Thinking.

              Once I finish, I want to go down the self employed contractor route asap and possibly do a Part Time HNC/HND in Electrical Engineering to supplement it. There is lot of highly paid work in the UK ATM in this field and I dont know how long it'll last so I plan to gather all the money up in the next couple of years.

              Where did you acquire the information you needed to get started and become successful?

              There were some resources for PLC, but a lot of it is hard to understand due to thick Indian accents but the best way I found was to buy a second hand PLC from ebay and experiment with it and the help files that come with the software.

              Another reason why PLC work is highly paid is because it is not for the faint hearted, lots of software hasnt been updated since in the Windows 95/DOS days and most of it is crap to use.

              What were the struggles/obstacles? What is the reality that most get wrong or need to prepare for?

              Social obstacles to expect? Lots of people wanted me to go through and do my Degree via A Levels. I just ignored them.

              [–]eccentricrealist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Right now I'm a student but I give tutoring when I get the time. I get paid 250-300 pesos per hour, which is more or less the minimum wage of a week around here. Still ain't much, but it's all right. If you're a good tutor the kids will start recommending you and you don't have to go through the hassle that real teachers go through of having to register with the school and getting permission and blah blah blah. I was also employed by a tutoring company for a while but they pay less, it was more for a little curriculum.

              [–]_Madison_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Occupation: Automotive Designer (Freelance usually on 6 month contracts atm)

              Trained to Masters level in Automotive exterior design so I'm doing sketching, Photoshop rendering etc for the majority of projects I'm on. However work can get a bit slow sometimes so I got trained in A Class surfacing on Autodesk Alias (CAD software, NURBS based) and also do clay modelling for smaller clients. Clay modelling is a very very niche job, as a result I can charge £65 an hour for that and pick up a contract pretty easily.

              I got into the industry in a slightly unconventional way, I did go through the usual university route to get an Ma however I also finished some personal projects. The biggest one was designing and building my own car which I finished when I was 21, turning up in that is what really helped me get internships and my first job.

              How did you start out?

              -Private school in Singapore where I grew up as an expat -Came back to UK for University, crucially whilst at uni i did internship design for no pay. Some will say this is a bad idea but quite frankly it gave me a huge advantage. -Worked on and finished the aforementioned car project over the summers during university. -Did another unpaid internship before finally getting a paid graduate position. -Once you have two years of studio work experience getting contracts is easy so I hop from multiple Automotive manufacturers.

              Where did you acquire the information you needed to get started and become successful?

              -The unpaid internships I did. You learn far more from a real workplace than university lectures, this is why i think unpaid internships are extremely valuable for anyone looking to enter a skills based industry. Plus you will have industry contacts ready to go upon graduation when my peers were starting from scratch. -Youtube is also a really great resource for tutorials, I became much better with things like Photoshop just from spending a couple of days watching everything I could find. -University lecturers were not the best, the industry pays very well so nobody who is any good will bother lecturing.

              What were the struggles/obstacles? What is the reality that most get wrong or need to prepare for?

              -At uni I was VERY boring. I ignored women and drinking and concentrated on building my skills. Too be fair I grown 'slightly' bored of the club scene in Singapore anyway so I made my return to the UK a fresh start where I would actually focus on something productive.

              -Jobs are EXTREMELY hard to get as a graduate. I am from a wealthy family, if you don't have money to cover living costs whilst you do internships you have no chance of getting your foot in.

              -You have to be very good. It's a skills based job, you can read all the books you want and know all the lingo but if you can't sketch well you have no chance you can't bullshit your way in. It's also a very tight knit industry so you cannot afford to ever burn bridges, this means you just have to accept getting spoken down to by design chiefs. Take it on the chin and shut up.

              How long have you been at it? Do you enjoy it?

              -Just turning 27 now only been working professionally for 3 years already know I love it. I've worked on the cars for the new Bond film which was great and you end up at some pretty spectacular launch parties.

              [–]jakeinmn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              In my spare time in college, I dove into mobile phone apps. I decided that these things are in the hands of nearly everyone in western society. I took some classes in uni and made a few and published them.

              Four years later, I have 13 published apps and 300k total installs. I didn't add ad screens for revenue until I hit 200k. I have 120+ apps ready to be published as well... But I keep making new ones.

              App development for android is mostly a gamble. There are thousands of new ones getting published every hour and what the difference in profitability between a subquality app that took a weekend to make and a project that took a year... But never will take off because everyone's already using Instagram/tinder/etc.

              The two most searched webbars in the internet is Google.com's and YouTube's. Now Google play is getting a lot of searches for seemingly random things like a specific song lyrics or a video game character bio.

              In the past year, I've made a cookie cutter design that when cloned and given a new "look" will allow me to publish a new app and generate income. I made 120 that way, each a soundboard/background setter app... I don't expect for it to take off, but an ad will show at least a few times. On launch. On choosing a background. On setting a background. It generates a few cents per user that session. It ads up.

              I've spent a few weekends on much more quality apps, but it doesn't generate as much as the spammy ones. Some have 10-20 downloads that took 40 hours to make that improve your life hella, but doesn't show up on the search... And one has 250k+ and it took me literally 30 min from scratch to publishing.

              If 30 minutes of work generates 30 dollars passively every month, then I just need to spray and pray.

              [–]dabrah1 2 points3 points  (5 children)

              Occupation- Train drivers for Lyft (Ubers competitor). I'm one of their mentors, aka the guy who interviews you and inspects your car before you can start driving. It pays better than most people would expect- 35 a person, and i average 3-7 people a day. I made 1200 this week. Best part- only worked 20 hours max, maybe less.

              This gives me time for other ventures- either driving for Lyft/Uber on the weekends when its crazy busy, or working on building my Real Estate Clientele (just got my license). I am also a "Handy" professional which is essentially Uber for cleaning houses (you take jobs that work for your schedule, and have no mandatory minimum amount of jobs you need to complete). I do that more for fun than income- my primary income is mentoring and real estate.

              Best part about all of these income streams? I make my own schedule with all of them, and the amount of money I make is directly correlated to the amount of work I put in. I also just bought an investment duplex, so add landlord to this mix. My plan is to buy 5-10 properties and then live off the cashflow. So yea.. I def live an unconventional life. I also have a bachelor's degree that as of now, I plan to never use.

              [–]TRPhd 2 points3 points  (3 children)

              Occupation: scientist

              Income: salary based on grant funding. If you can get grants, or works for someone who does, you will always have a job. Basically as a scientist you are a profit center for your university; they take half of your grants for "expenses". The next largest part goes to "salary", so you pay yourself, but fucking believe your department will have something to say about what you pay yourself. The National Institutes of Health has a salary maximum of about $180K per year, but PhD scientists rarely get that high. MD scientists tend to make that much, though they can always work in the hospital to cover extra expenses.

              Unconventional income: you might get named on a patent... but that's pretty rare as an academic, and in industry you don't get extra pay for it. In a start-up is the only way to get a decent piece of patent money, and even that's a longshot.

              Start Out: You have to get into grad school, so you need a science undergrad. Then you take an entrance exam (usually the GRE). How well you do on that determines if you can get directly into a PhD program, and how prestigious of a program you can get into. Masters degrees are pay-your-own-way, science PhDs are usually paid for by your professor and you get a small stipend (~$1.8K/mo). PhDs in science take 3-7 years, and it's full-time work ~50 hours a week or so, with irregular hours and some academic responsibilities. But mostly you are a lab rat (who experiments on lab rats).

              After your PhD, you do a post-doctoral (postdoc) or two for about $40-50K/year. Hopefully you generate enough interesting data to get your own grant and a job. If you're unlucky or if your boss doesn't have/use their connections on your behalf, you're stuck doing another postdoc basically indefinitely. You can go work for industry sometimes for about $60-80K, or go back and get a teaching degree like Walter White for about $40K a year. If you want to get into a start-up your best chance is if your boss is starting one, otherwise, good fuckin' luck.

              As a principal investigator (PI) running your own lab, your life sucks. You get students and postdocs of variable quality and your career depends on their data, because you are so swamped with writing and other responsibilities that you can't ever set foot in your own lab. You make about $80K to start, but once you get that sweet-sweet NIH money you can bump your pay to the low $100's. Don't get too big for your britches, though; if your salary money comes up short the Uni will cut your "extravagant" pay and farm you out as a "mere" instructor for their overpriced classes (teaching the masters' students).

              Academia is shitty, no one has vision, everyone backstabs each other -- crab bucket to the extreme. Fuck academia. Industry is no paradise either -- science in cubicles. Puke. Your only hope is a startup, but science is so speculative you are going to have to work your ass off to even get any meetings with funding sources, and good luck if you don't have a track record to show them... oh, and who are the "experts" they consult about the feasibility of your projects? The aca-fucking-demics. Hah. The system is fucked.

              Just go to med school. It's a shitty gig, too, but at least you're pretty much guaranteed a $150K salary on the other side (and a $250K debt, but that's another diatribe)...

              [–]tekn0_ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              Hey thanks for the reply. I just finished my PhD in Engineering myself. I was wondering what your field was? Since you mentioned NIH, I suppose it is biology or biochemistry or medical science. Also, I wasn't really happy with the academic system in place. But it is what it is. Have you only looked for funding through grants? What do you think are other means to earn income stream with a research background?

              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

              Occupation: Entrepreneur

              I am from a poor family. Dad did not work due to serious injury. My mum and dad were great, a loving and supportive family but we grew up in a poor working class/ welfare neighborhood. I started work at 17 and put myself through law school while working full time in the legal industry. I earned good salaries during my working career and I have taken months and years off to travel to Europe and enjoy a holiday lifestyle while not working.

              At 30 I left employment and started a private investigation company. With the profits from that I set up a marketing company and later opened my own law firm. Since I commenced self employment I have not worked long hours. I prefer to rely on outsourcing and delegation and use strict quality control with employees. My charge out rates are between $250-500 per hour depending on which employee does the work. We settle large cases, the legal bills are regularly over $50,000.00 per case.

              I enjoy a leisurely lifestyle. I was married and I have two kids. I get to spend as much time as I like with my kids. The divorce has been relatively pain free for me (it helps being a lawyer plus my ex has been remarkably reasonable). Money is not really an issue as I own two properties, my three businesses and my annual turnover is above $1 million.

              If I could give any advice it would be to try and beome an employer. It does not matter what you do, anything from a guy who mows lawns, to a doctor. If you want to make more money becoming an employer is a good way. Just hire more people to do the work that you would be doing. Better to be the boss of ten plumbers or ten doctors then do everything yourself.

              I love my lifestyle. Noone tells me where to be or what I have to do. It feels like I am in a position in life where I make the rules rather than follow them. Happy to answer any questions.

              [–]sir_wankalot_here 4 points5 points  (6 children)

              I started from a middle class family, conservative. Basically the attitude become a corporate slave.

              I do online consultancy gigs. Since they are in other countries and I get paid in US dollars I don't pay any tax.

              [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

              How does one become a business consultant? What kind of things do you consult on?

              [–]sir_wankalot_here 4 points5 points  (4 children)

              I have some programming skills, I then made a website and then look for gigs on freelance sites. You can do the same thing with copywriting skills (I don't have this skill), design etc.

              I live in a developing nation so my monetary needs are quite small. I also dabble with selling rubbish online as I call it.

              Any venture, invest small to start. If the venture does not appear to be prospering, either try something new or bail out. Don't throw good money after bad. A few times I didn't follow my own advice and that is when I lost big dollars.

              Also remember cater to your audience. Just because you might think the product is rubbish who cares. Your audience is the one buying it.

              Doing business is a lot like picking up chicks. And it is a numbers game. Like chicks don't be pushy. So if the potential client shows interest but hasn't made up his mind, then wait a month contact him again. Keep on doing that.

              Also don't waste your time on clients or potential clients that waste yours. So if the guy keeps on saying he wants feature X for the same price and he keeps on raising the bar. Stop wasting time with him.

              Keep in trying new shit no matter how stupid it might seem to you. If it doesn't work out then try something new. The key is an initial small investment.

              Be prepared for lots of failure/rejection when that happens try a new angle and learn from your mistakes.

              Everytime I screwed up I didn't follow my own advice. We have a tendency to fall in love with our project (or I do sometimes). So someone on my Trump language analysis post said he doesn't like Trump because he speaks at a grade 4 level and uses words like "great" and "tremendous". A large percentage of Americans like these type of words.

              [–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              When did you start doing this? What languages did you learn? Where did you acquire these skills?

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                [–]jerryandjerrysizzler 5 points6 points  (3 children)

                Occupation: Enlisted Military (Air Force) - Intelligence

                I can't talk say much about it; the military will provide for you but the pay is never really great. You'll get by, you won't need much revenue due to the low cost of living (housing, insurance, all that is covered.) I'll say this - if you are going to go into the military go Airforce especially if you're enlisted. Trust me, the army treats its enlisted like shit.

                Supplemental income I play mid-stakes (500nl) live and online poker to supplement my income. I'm certainly not a pro but it can bring in a few extra grand a month (live, not online - online is tougher.) I can't understate how important it is to not let your job fully control your total income stream because thats in effect total control of your lifestyle and budget. You become dependent on the system which makes it easier to "drink the blue kool aid" and invest large amounts of time going through the bullshit and chasing pitiful promotions/raises (hundreds of hours of study and volunteering for a few extra hundred a month.) I'm not saying it's bad, it's just not something I could do.

                On to poker - you need a stomach. Some days the cards will just say "fuck you" and that's that. But at least to me there's nothing like being on a run and raking in people's stacks. I can't teach you it here - there's too much to it, but I'll say this - No limit hold'em is a game of image. It's kind of like game - to be a good hold'em player means being able to hide or push past your insecurities (you'll often have a weak hand, it's hard to make strong hands in this game!) and just kind of getting by bravado, image, and bluster. It means picking your spots - being able to pick out an opponent's weakness and smell opportunity which again often means ignoring your actual cards and just going for it. It's also about getting paid off and cashing off when you're strong. You make yourself an image at that table and people do take notice.

                [–]Moldy_Gecko 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                if you are going to go into the military go Airforce especially if you're enlisted.

                Or better yet, don't join the military and get your life started straight away. However, yes... if you're looking for the "easy" life, AF all the way.

                [–]Fuck_shadow_bans 5 points6 points  (6 children)

                Occupation: Economist

                Side gig: Freelance Salesforce Admin/Developer

                Essentially I do the initial setup of new Salesforce instances. It requires very little knowledge of programming. Mostly just how relational databases work and some basic HTML. SQL helps a little bit but only if they want to get fancy. Otherwise the Salesforce software takes care of everything. I make between $500 and $1k per setup on average and it takes me about 8-10 hours of work.

                If you have basic level programming skills, you can easy get into this. I haven't updated my resume on LinkedIn in over three years but I still get 4-5 messages a month from headhunters looking for Salesforce Admins.

                [–]1IamGale 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Interesting side gig. Do you get all your clients from headhunters on Linkedin?

                [–]Fuck_shadow_bans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Nope. Mostly non-profits. They get 10 free licenses for Salesforce, so it's an easy sell to get them started because all they are paying is my fee + any basic training, but they avoid the big yearly subscription fee.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)


                  [–]Fuck_shadow_bans 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  Salesforce will give you a free developer account. Then just work through their workbooks, and mock up your test environment to different businesses. I've actually sold some of those mock ups to clients after the fact. They had interesting demands/needs and I did a much more complete version than I would have normally. A few of them saw what their contact and donor management system could actually function like and jumped on board immediately.

                  Also join the Community site. There are a lot of great groups like Button Click Admins that are great for beginners and intermediate admins and developers. Finally, if you want to get paid, take the certification tests. They aren't that hard if you study and it only costs $200.

                  [–]Squeezymypenisy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                  Occupation: Work for criminal appeallate defense attorney.

                  I have 3 job offers from him and another firm. The market I am in is healthy for my field and I met them through LTR family and other connections. Grades helped as well. Wanted to be an attorney for some time. I had no illusions about what life was like and did my homework to make sure I could succeed. I did not go to law school for idealism or the idea that money will just be handed to me. I do not live in LA or the Northeast. Am curious to hear about other dudes occupations.

                  [–]Blackierobinsin 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  Can someone get me into porn

                  [–]Luckyluke23 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  What is your alternative revenue stream/unconventional occupation/unconventional lifestyle?

                  I sell vinyl records on a facebook page.

                  How did you start out?

                  when i bought my first record: I went into a shop with my girl at the time, Just a kid, 15. saw bob Dylan the greatest hits II. his big face on the cover with whispy hair, the deep dark blue cover just looking back at me. I had to have it.

                  I set up my vinyl store last year since i was broke and had no job. It's not going that well, only because I'm in school now and don't have time / money to put into it.

                  Where did you acquire the information you needed to get started and become successful?

                  I didn't, I've been in sales before so i know how to hock shit.

                  What were the struggles/obstacles? What is the reality that most get wrong or need to prepare for?

                  vinyl is hard because mostly hipsters and oldies buy them, so you need the indie shitty pop rock, or some metal like black sabbath. which i don't have either.

                  though, another challenge is no sales coming in. make sure you have some money behind you when starting a business i did not.

                  What strategy did you implement?

                  hey I'm broke, I like vinyl... hmmm... I KNOW! let's sell vinyl!

                  Where do you look for customers?

                  online mostly through facebook and local sites such as gumtree.

                  Are you married? Do you have a family?

                  I'm broke and I live with my folks.

                  How long have you been at it? Do you enjoy it?

                  all day wigga!

                  I do love it, once i get a job and a house i will be able to set things up more properly and then i can have people start flooding in.

                  [–]riverfish7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Occupation: Doctor turned online entrepreneur

                  Graduated from a top medical school in the UK in 2012. After finishing my Foundation training as a junior doctor (equivalent of internship in the US), I decided medicine wasn't for me and looked towards other career alternatives.

                  Currently I work as a locum doctor. What that means is I go through an agency and fill up shifts whenever a hospital is in desperate need of doctors (and often they are).

                  I get to work whenever I want to and make £7000-9000 per month.

                  This lifestyle has allowed me to take time off and travel extensively, sometimes for a few weeks at a time. Last year I travelled to 10 different countries. It has also allowed me to save up a chunk of money to start my own business (more on that below).

                  Tax reduction methods most people don't know about?

                  The best part is, I get paid through my own limited company. Last year I was due to pay circa £15,000 in corporation tax. Instead, I managed to exploit a loophole in the system to legally avoid paying for it. Accountants will definitely not be willing to do this for you so PM if you want more details about this.

                  After a summer of travels through Eastern Europe, I came back refreshed and decided I wanted to start my own business, despite having no experience whatsoever.

                  I stumbled upon the world of Amazon FBA Private Labelling. I started in October and my first PL product just launched 2 weeks ago.

                  Initially I gave myself a target of 2 months to reach a goal of 10 units sold per day. I've reached that target in 2 weeks. So far haven't made a profit yet, but I'm very optimistic with how the figures are running at the moment and am getting prepared to make a 2nd order and launch a 2nd product at the same time.

                  My goal is to have 5 different products under my brand, each selling 10 units a day.

                  The Amazon FBA PL business is a very popular business because of the amazing growth rates. For example, I have a friend who launched his first product in November and last month he made $30k in sales.

                  Are you from a rich family?

                  From an upper middle class family. Not obscenely rich. My parents always taught me the value of money. They are both self made entrepreneurs. But I've never had to struggle in my life.

                  Was your home environment terrible?

                  No. Growing up I thought most people's families functioned the same as mine. Boy was I wrong. I'm extremely fortunate to have a strong-knit family. I use to be somewhat embarassed about my dad because he always seemed temperamental, stubborn, unreasonable and at times, rude. Only in the past year or two after reading about TRP have I grown more respect for my dad. I've slowly come to the realisation that my dad is in fact, a very red-pilled and alpha business man, who personifies the attitude of not giving a fuck.

                  Did you go to community college, university or receive graduate or doctoral education?

                  I went to a top medical school in the UK. I was a diabolically shit student however. It was clear from very early on that I was not that interested in medicine. I did the absolute minimum to pass and it's a miracle that I did.

                  Despite the fact that I didn't like medicine, I'm extremely glad that I didn't quit. All too often, people quit their majors/careers because they don't like it, which is the wrong way of looking at it. My brother told me only to quit my profession because I have something better waiting for me. Spot on advice I'd say.

                  Staying on in medical school has allowed me a lifestyle where I get to make great money whilst funding my travels and my online business. If all else fails, I can always fall back on continuing my training as a doctor (I don't believe in backup plans though).

                  More importantly however, when you are a lazy and unmotivated student like I was, medical school really kicks you up the ass and forces discipline down your throat. In many ways because of its hierarchical and conservative culture, training to become a doctor is very much the same as training in the army.

                  Did people shame you or not believe you?

                  Big time. My RP journey started about 1.5 years ago after I broke up with my ex, who looking back, probably had BPD. I wasn't entirely BP back then, but I was a guy who was seemingly content with letting life float by.

                  Back in high school, I was part of the popular crowd and even had a gf. But after going to medical school, I became very detached from society and life in general. I gained 20kg in my 2nd year. Smoked 20 cigarettes a day. Spent all my days playing computer games and poker instead of studying. Pretty much made zero friends during the entire time. And girls were completely out of the question.

                  After graduating, I managed to lose the 20kg. Gave up on computer games and poker completely. There were a few girls here and there. But the problem is, I constantly felt trapped being a doctor.

                  It wasn't until after I broke up with my ex that I really started taking serious action with my life:

                  • I started lifting weights more seriously. A few years ago, I could barely do even 1 pull up. Now I can comfortably do 3x10.

                  • Gave up smoking completely (18 months and counting). More recently, I have just given up caffeine, which was even harder but something that I highly recommend to everyone. Once I got through all the awful headaches, I've noticed that I have more focus and energy throughout the entire day.

                  • Day game. This was huge for me. I'm not a daygame nut and I know I will never be, but in the first few months of daygame I had done a few hundred approaches. I'm a firm believer that daygame improves all aspects of your life, not just with women. Even if I didn't live up to the expectations of getting laid by 9s and 10s every week, just the very fact of knowing that there were some seriously hot women who were attracted to me did wonderful things for my confidence and sense of entitlement. And confidence begets confidence. Even though I haven't approached in months, the IOIs I get when I walk around the city with my gf has quickly gotten rid of the scarcity mindset I was plagued with before.

                  • Actively applied for jobs outside of medicine. Worked a few months at a top digital health startup. Even worked in a favourite restaurant of mine because I thought I wanted to become a chef at one point.

                  The downside of this all is that once you start improving all aspects of my life, you start to see who really are your true friends. I've had friends make seemingly innocent comments veiled over jealousy and contempt. I've had to distance myself away from these friends simply because I realised they added no value to my life. It's sad but on the whole I'm better for it.

                  [–]probpoopin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                  I grow weed. I work too. But it basically pays all my bills and a nice vacation every year. Which allows me to save more.

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