A while back, I was asked by Stephen Marche to do an interview for the Guardian regarding TRP.
It's probably one of the more pleasant takes I've seen in mainstream directed towards us. In place of out-right vitriol is instead pity, which I think is a bit of an upgrade from articles past. I wouldn't be surprised if his thoughts aligned more with ours than he lets on in his writing.
He does seem to outline at a glance that there's an issue and that TRP is addressing it- perhaps harmlessly so. But since he's part of the mainstream media, the narrative must continue. That narrative is that there is a never ending hatred of women ingrained in our culture- and we can't expect our "boys" to deviate from the course when role models like pop stars are also misogynists.
We can't expect much depth from a tabloid (heh) so it should come as no surprise that his final suggestion is that the latent, underlying misogyny is everywhere simply because nobody told us what we needed was a little love and to just stop hating. He suggests that rather than being angry we can't find "love" we should try finding "love." You shouldn't dig too deep.
Here's the unabridged Interview for anybody interested:
So just to confirm you are the redditt moderator for the red pill yes? How many do you moderate?
yes, I am the head moderator for /r/TheRedPill
I moderate about 15 subreddits
but really only a handful are active, TheRedPill, asktrp, redpillwomen, are the big ones.
How long have you been moderating them all?
I've been moderating since the red pill's inception, about 3 years
How much of your time would you say is devoted to TRP?
I mean, it must be close to a full time job, right?
Probably too much time. During busy weeks there's probably close to 20 hours of moderator duties. During development of TRP.RED, I was spending about 8 hours an evening working on development.
Were you in any way involved in, like, publishing books about the material?
Or was it just the subreddit?
I hadn't published anything before. I got started when I stumbled upon a few manosphere blogs and realized there wasn't really a good forum for discussion on masculine topics.
Was there an event that led you to start TRP. Personal or otherwise?
Well, the events in my life did lead me to it. Having spent my twenties as many guys did looking for relationships or female companionship, I noticed that the dating game just wasn't what I was taught.
Like, what my parents prepared me for, and what I learned from television and movies.
It was stacked against guys, and it was a very unpleasant experience. I noticed the attitude of women in the dating market was very negative, it was a terrible experience
So that lead me to researching others' experiences
which lead me to the mansophere, and eventually theredpill
Can you give me an example of one of those terrible experiences?
Well, an experience I had repeatedly were flakes. It hadn't always been this bad, but over the past ten years, the flakiness of women has gotten worse in my experience. You'd meet a girl, hit it off, have a drink together, chat, really connect. Get her number and agree to a date. And either she'd no-show, or cancel right before (or after) she was supposed to meet you. It's rude, it's not good people skills. But in the dating market, it's the new normal.
So for a guy trying to connect with women like myself, I found myself putting in all this effort, to meet women, put myself out there, chat with them, really advertise myself. And to have all that work go to nothing when women flaked, it was very defeating.
It's not the way courting worked when my parents met. There was value to your word when you agreed to a date.
But not our culture now, that's just not what it is any more.
I noticed that flirting became a blood sport
Fun and friendly conversations became more combative at bars, women would regularly use put downs and insults to knock me off my game. I didn't understand why meeting people had to be such a poor experience.
I later learned that this was women's way of "testing" me. And there was a way to respond to these tests, that a lot of these women were actually interested in me, I just never learned how to deal with this testing.
I later learned not to get emotionally invested in these little games, but rather turn them around and get women to laugh. I would never had known that with what my dad taught me as a kid.
The manosphere fundamentally became a surrogate father for the life lessons I never got.
What did your dad teach you about dating?
I mean what was wrong and the trp corrected it?
My dad taught me to take words at their surface value. Like, people say what they mean. And maybe they did when he was a kid. Or maybe he was clueless and meeting my mom was a fluke.
So I was clueless when I met women. I just knew what he told me about meeting my mom. And what I saw in movies
where having a good heart and being yourself is all you need to meet the right girl, and she'll appreciate you for it.
but that's not what happens now. You can't be good, or nice. You have to be attractive. Good and nice aren't attractive any more.
I think my parents had marriage on the mind, my mom looked for good and nice because her parents taught her that. They told her "find a good and nice guy because you need that in a good husband." But girls these days aren't looking for a husband. They might want good and nice when they're 40 and looking to settle. But at 25, girls are looking for a bad boy. And I wasn't bad at all.
Any specific movies that come to mind that were particularly wrong?
I can't think of a specific movie at the moment, but I do know a popular television show that my generation grew up with: boy meets girl.
Movies do a similar thing though, you find the common mantra is: just tell her how you feel and she'll return the feelings if she likes you.
But it turns out, that's terrible game. You don't pour your heart out. You'll look too invested and scare her away.
Saying it now feels a little silly, like, how was I ever that stupid?
But back then, I thought, this is how you get girls. And they wouldn't respond well to it. They'd say "you're a good friend, but"
and then they'd date guys they call jerks, and complain to me how they're such jerks!
Talk about confusing! Jerks are bad, you hate how he's a jerk, why not date a nice guy like me, then?
I later learned one of the most important lessons: You cannot negotiate attraction.
OK. Now that is true enough. But here's the thing: Why would you want to be with women who don't want to be with good men?
Well, you know, because eventually you start wondering why stick to being good when it's never rewarded?
It's not that there were women who liked nice guys- nice guys never got it. It wasn't like there were a bunch of girls looking for good guys and I just needed to go to the library to find them. They didn't exist at all.
So I thought, maybe it's not them who are broken, maybe I gotta change me?
And sure enough, adapting to the market, now girls like me.
But here's my point. Do you like women more? I mean, the "reward" of using the game seems to be with women you have contempt for. You see what I mean.
Yes, I see what you mean.
I mean if these girls see you as a commodity, why bother?
MAybe that's my naviete. Not having been dating for a long time.
I think the problem is that my old view of women, when I was unsuccessful and "nice," I did build resentment for women.
so learning that everybody else was playing by different rules actually helped dissolve that resentment
I don't resent them for playing the game. The mating "dance" has always been a back-and-forth between men and women to select their optimal partner
I did resent them, but now I appreciate them quite a bit.
So you think trp actually made you more repsectful of women?
Yes, it helped me understand human nature. It was like me getting angry with myself for getting hungry, instead of taking the logical step to feed myself.
So once I understood why and how things happened, it put me at peace with it.
And that's a good thing. I'm in a long term relationship now with a girl that I love, and it works, she's very attracted to me. She compliments me on improvements I've made. And I know without the advice of TRP, I would've been clueless and getting caught up on her "tests" rather than beating them.
Does she know you're the moderator of TRP?
And how does she feel about it?
She's a smart lady, so she agrees with the philosophy we discuss on the forum. None of it was terribly surprising to her.
She trusts me, and knows that she's attracted to me. And I think in her mind is that it's probably silly, since, as a woman, she didn't have to put the same amount of effort into attracting a mate. But, if it works, don't fix it.
You think women don't have to work to find a mate?
I think women can find a mate with far less effort.
I mean, man, I once saw my wife putting on "anti-feathering agent" which makes lipstick look better and I thought "Jesus Christ."
Haha, yes, there's a lot of effort that goes into presenting themselves.
I think the comparison I use is that for guys, if they don't put in effort, they simply won't meet anybody. For women, even if they don't put in effort, their default position is having to reject potential suitors.
Now, finding a mate that they are head over heels in love with, that might not be easy for them.
But for a guy, simply meeting somebody willing to talk them can be such an impossible task that they'll go years without hope
Do you think TRP helped you find love? Or do you think that was mostly chance?
Yes, TRP was instrumental in my finding love - not only finding it, but understanding how to find it and what to look for.
Well, first of all, there are qualities that you might look for in a mate. In my twenties it was basically a crapshoot of whoever would talk to me was a potential mate.
That's not very effective
Now that I have options with TRP, I can be more selective. And TRP helps me know what girls would make good long term partners.
So finding my current girlfriend, I now have the skills to attract her, to keep her attracted, and the knowledge to know she was worth a long term relationship with
So can you tell me--I don't want to blow your anonymity--but can you just give me a general demographic on yourself.
You're an American, yes?
Sure, ~30 +/- 3 years, USA
white, atheist, conservative? Like those polls say the bulk of TRP is?
though there are a lot of religious people in the community, so atheist isn't a good marker for red pill members
Trump conservative? Or like Rand Paul conservative?
I would've preferred Rand, But since he fell out, I'm on board with trump in a very watch-it-burn kind of way
So I guess the question is why are you starting the new site off Reddit?
Well there are a few reasons for the new site.
First, we wanted to have a safe backup for our forums if reddit admin kicked us off. We're a very unpopular subject matter and we know the admin have removed other subreddits for being unpopular in subject.
We're accused of misogyny almost daily, so it would make sense if they wanted us gone.
I won't deny that the language is colorful and there's a lot of emotion expressed by the men on the forum.
But there wasn't really a way for guys to express these feelings. It's politically incorrect, but that doesn't mean the feelings just disappear. Guys needed a place for straight-talk with other guys. Like a locker room.
A lot of these guys didn't have dads, or a positive male role model to discuss these things with, so they lack male companionship and comradery
But it's risky, because the gender wars are heated, and feminists are quick on the trigger to try to take down anything they consider wrong. So TheRedPill on reddit is not a safe long-term bet.
We made backup forums, but they're only in case we get moved off reddit. They're locked right now.
Now, the main site that is open now is trp.red, I'm sure you saw
We wanted a place where men could discuss masculine topics with each other without facing the same public shaming outcry that happens on other social media sites.
There are examples of Milo Yiannopoulos getting reported and losing his verified status on twitter because of his views on masculinity
and nobody can talk about these subjects on facebook because that's career and family suicide.
it's a big topic that has become taboo in our culture. We just can't talk like men to other men about things that affect men.
So we decided this was a niche that needed to be filled. A place for men to discuss masculine interests without the social backlash of being politically incorrect.
But surely there's a line somewhere. I mean, to me, the site is 90% locker room talk, then like 10% misogyny. Does that sound fair to you?
Haha, well I would argue that the definition of misogyny isn't really very concrete, that much is labelled as such because it's inconvenient.
So, let's say there's a guy who just says "well I hate women"
I think that's textbook misogyny
and, in fact, we let them say that. Because there's nowhere else for a man to blow off steam. And sometimes you have an experience that makes you think, "women, right?"
but they stay, they learn, they vent, they get advice, they get back on the horse.
The endgame of our advice isn't to hate women. It's to understand them so you can stop being so darn frustrated by them.
So TRP is a way to work through misogny and escape it?
In a way, yes.
But I do take exception to the word. Because I think it's used unfairly to stifle men from venting very real feelings.
But those real feelings are hostility to women
I think, a guy gets cheated on by his girlfriend and he swears off women altogether, yeah, you can call it misogyny, obviously all women didn't break his heart.
But he's not really thinking in his head, "all women just hurt me"
what he's thinking is "my insatiable desire for women in my life is hurting me "
the dark secret is, men need woman, and I think sometimes resent that their happiness is inextricably linked to satiate their biological imperative.
Do you talk often with Redditt admin about the site or its future?
Reddit admin do very little to communicate with mods,
so there has been no open dialog with them. Though I have contacted them regarding this.
Sorry. regarding the new site?
Regarding the subreddit.
So you didn't start it because of something an admin communicated to you?
No, there has been no evidence that we're being removed that I know of.
We started this project about a year ago to make sure we were ready if it did happen, because about a year ago they started removing other politically incorrect subreddits. We just wanted to be prepared.
TRP.RED as a social media site was borne out of the original plan for a backup forum. It sort of evolved from our original plans.
Surely you must find SOME stuff posted on TRP offensive.
I think it's about the perspective that you approach the content. I have been very dedicated to ensuring that the space allows for male anger and male venting. Because of this, I understand it and embrace it.
If a guy came on and talked about actually hurting women or plotting to harm them, we'd remove them and possibly contact authorities if there was any risk of an immediate threat.
But this is the one place where men have the freedom to throw around ideas, vent, and discuss openly with other men.
I do, however, see why it is offensive to some people.
For instance, there are people who want to believe that every person is entirely unique and different.
It's a comforting thought that we are all individuals
Some of what we say tries to predict behaviors based on knowledge of the group.
Essentially, a stereotype.
it's offensive to people to think, "well, just because I'm a woman, doesn't mean I will do what these guys are saying, so this is offensive to me."
but I think that lacks an understanding of how generalizations are applied. Of course it's impossible to truly predict behaviors of an individual. We try to capitalize on behavioral trends because we know enough women will behave a certain way.
For instance, enough girls like tall guys, that we can reasonably surmise that being tall will net you better results than being short
But some women date short guys.
It's just a generalization
That's not really the stuff I'm talking about. It's more the "if women come home with them you can rape them," material.
I mean, I know what a tiny fragment of TRP that is, but it is shocking when you come across it.
That's the sensationalized version of the red pill that gets bandied around.
Lets talk about that. The media response to this stuff, because it does seem pretty distorted to me.
There's no discussion of rape strategies. It's antithetical to our entire purpose, which is to find a way to become attractive enough that women will want to be with us.
If the group was seriously pro-rape, there simply wouldn't be a discussion on building attraction. We'd just take 'em all by force.
There have been probably a handful of comments I've removed over the past three years, and they're usually one-offs by trolls who want to make the group look pro-rape. They're banned and removed, since that is strictly forbidden in our forum rules.
You been following the Jian Ghomeshi case at all?
No I haven't
What do you think of what happened with Roosh V?
with the roosh v day meetups that were cancelled?
He knew he was infamous and would cause a stir. I think he planned it out that way.
No coverage is bad coverage
his message is targeted at guys that cut through the crap, so the news says "pro rape group getting together" and the guys look him up to see what the hubbub is, turns out he's a masculine blogger
How long do you think you're going to keep running TRP?
As long as I can
It's changed so many lives
including my own
Can you think of anybody whose life it has changed for the worse?
Not in particular. There are some guys who got the information but didn't really digest it, and they claim it didn't work.
Do you think TRP is mostly misrepresented or do you think it kind of courts that shock value?
I didn't ask for it to be misrepresented, but it is a great advertising scheme when people see shocking headlines and come read what we have, and end up staying.
The truth is, some of these topics are just outside the overton window, no matter how true or false they may be
and so there will be outrage
Does it bother you?
Not really. I didn't expect mainstream acceptance, nor do I work towards that goal.