Red Pill Theory4 passive game rules that save time meeting women, with examples (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by beachbloke

Short: While men are sexually aware (radar turned on) about 10-50% of the time, women are sexually aware 100% of the time. Every single room a woman enters she scans for attractive men. When a woman is attracted to a man, she will 100% of the time try to make that man aware of her so she can begin testing him. Doesn't matter if she has aspergers, is married, or a freaking nun. All women do this all the time. Identifying when women are running their passive game on you helps sort out which women are worth your time.

Below I have 4 simple rules for sorting which women are definitely attracted to you while spending zero time with women who aren't.

Long: We at TRP all know women aren't innocent, and that women are in fact incredibly sophisticated social manipulators. I get to spend a lot of time watching people in coffee shops and have come to appreciate some very predictable patterns women have. Having spent years noticing these patterns and testing their meaning, I have some simple rules I've come to rely on that help me meet women who are interested in me.

Rule 1 - Be present around women but do not pay extra attention to them.

Explanation: Women are extremely persistent when it comes to men they are attracted to and are used to attractive men being "in the zone" and not caring about anything except what they are doing at that moment. Doing what you're doing makes women have to tip their hand slightly and reveal their intentions to those who know what to look for.

Example: Go to the bar and talk with everyone, don't spend extra time with the women. Just have fun with everyone and do whatever you want. This shows confidence and not paying attention to women is important for the steps below.

Rule 2 - Create presence

Explanation: Presence is being noticeable by existing. There are a variety of ways to create presence, but none of them are easy to explain with text.

Example: I think the easiest type of presence to explain is "ownership presence". Ownership presence is my name for when a man owns everything around him. I have ownership presence, and the distinguishing thing in my thought process is I take responsibility for everything around me. If someone is hurt, it is my responsibility to make sure they are cared for. If the chair isn't pushed in, it is my responsibility to push it in. It is my responsibility because I own it. I own the person who was hurt. I own the chair. No matter where I am, I own the things around me and I'm responsible for them. People notice this and know my ownership means I am powerful. I attract the hottest women in the room passively because they are curious about my power.

Rule 3 - For women there are no coincidences

Explanation: Women are 100% of the time aware of all of the men around them. They are hyper-vigilant and every detail of their choices is chosen based on purpose. I have tested this considerably and have come to the conclusion that if a woman is attracted to you, she will be near you. Likewise, if a woman is not attracted to you, she will purposefully distance herself from you. This applies both physically and socially. A woman who is attracted to you will purposefully stand near you or sit near you. Likewise a woman who is repulsed by you will be invisible -- you will never see her and it will be like she doesn't exist.

Example: Say you sit down at a coffee shop to do some work. If there are plenty of free seats and a woman sits down in your proximity, she is attracted to you 100% of the time. She will always sit across the room if she can if she is not attracted to you. It is worth noting that this attraction is nothing to get excited about. At this stage it is more like curiosity. She believes you have potential and wants to explore if you are what she wants. However this attraction means you will 100% of the time do well if you have some confidence and speak to her.

Rule 4 - 5 minutes or bust

Explanation: Women like clockwork give men they choose to be in proximity of between 1 an 5 minutes after the man notices her to make his move before she moves on. This is the first test of a man's confidence.

Example: A woman and her friend sit next to you at the bar and you spend a few minutes speaking to your friend. You turn to the woman and check her out. Her friend notices and stutters in her speech. The woman you are looking at notices that and the fact you aren't speaking to your friend and knows you are checking her out. The clock has started. You have between 1 and 5 minutes to make your move before the woman will go away. Same applies if she is across the room and in less casual contexts. If you don't introduce yourself you have failed her first shit test and you are done: she assumes you lack confidence. She is probably not worth approaching for the rest of the day or night. This is why acting immediately is so important. Your confidence to speak is the first shit test.

Takeaways: I use these rules because they are socially acceptable everywhere and they work. I meet on average 3 women a day, and I can count on my hand how many immediate shut downs I've had. Not all are closes but I have to put in zero work so its a good investment/reward ratio. Remember: 1) Be around women 2) create presence 3) there are no coincidences 4) 5 minutes or bust.

[–]nice_and_friendly 184 points185 points  (39 children)

it feels great to actually see this stuff. the woman at the bar who moves 1 seat closer to you when you look away, trying to get talked to.. the woman in the grocery store who comes down the same isle 3 times while you are there, trying to get talked to.. the cashier who pretends to fumble with her screen and drawer mumbling about how she is such a ditz, trying to get talked to... etc etc etc. their game is subtle, yet obvious at the same time if you are aware of it and see right through it. when you do, rest assured you are doing something right. by the way OP, thanks for taking the time to post. we are all here to learn from each other. be good man

[–]SYL3NZR 60 points61 points  (28 children)

reading the OP and your little comment really makes me sad sometimes, cos you realise how literally every woman ever did the "negative" stuff to me and only the people i wouldnt touch with a stick even if i was paid tried to get my attention, seems like i only attract weirdos


[–]nice_and_friendly 39 points40 points  (17 children)

the good news for you is that i first noticed this stuff mostly during my anger phase. the less i gave a shit about women or whether or not they noticed me, the more i noticed them noticing me. it actually is all about the energy that you carry. thats the truth. so check your attitude homie, its in the wrong place and a lot of your issues surely stem from it. nobody here feels pity for you, so go hit the gym and then grab a beer alone at a bar on the way home. pay for it with a $100 bill and let the change sit on the counter while you sip it and watch TV. watch the women move closer, or even straight up come up and try to take napkins from the dispenser infront of you and other dumb bullshit like that... just trying to get talked to. care infinitely less. you'll see

[–]MoneyStatusLooks 50 points50 points [recovered]

hit the gym and then grab a beer alone at a bar on the way home

Terrible post workout nutrition ;) LOL.

[–]neo9960 15 points16 points  (14 children)

lol....You guys know what's strange? I actually have a drinking strategy so that I can still get fucked up and stay lean. First, what is of the utmost importance is that you give up BEER. Give. It. Up. Beer isn't that great anyways and fuck those carbs. What you want is liquor, primarily Vodka or Gin because they are the most calorie friendly (I believe somewhere under 80 calories for either one). Learn to drink Vodka and water or Gin and Tonic

NOW before you go getting sloshed and slurring your speech here's a scenario: Let's say that you want to have Sunday Funday and your homies are all meeting up around noon to start getting fucked up. What you need to do is eat around 2-3 eggs and about 4 pieces of bacon. The eggs keep you from the hunger feeling and the bacon coats your stomach lining (It is very important that you coat your stomach. This is key to being able to digest properly the next day).

"Well what about the rest of the day frat boy? You still have to eat." Yes gentlemen; you do have to eat. What you have to do is make Sunday Funday or the day of your binge drinking all about protein. You can eat more bacon and eggs if you'd like to but you're no longer at home so that choice is likely not available. Find somewhere close and buy 1-2 pieces of chicken (chicken breast is the obvious choice or something in the realm of lean protein). Also, COUNT YOUR CALORIES. Don't put it on me if you go ape shit and gorge yourself. I'm only giving you a guide so feel free to make adjustments as you please. I should also note that the initial bacon and eggs will keep you feeling full a LOT longer than you think.

[–]manslutalt 4 points5 points  (7 children)

You think tonic has less carbs than beer?

[–]Nikelu 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It does. You can go full bodybuilding mode and drink carbonated water with lemon slice. But I still drink beers and I am totally in shape. It just depends on the macros. Did I eat bread or rice today? If no grab a beer. If yes, I do not. You have to take in factor a lot of things.

[–]losectrl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah I think that needs checking. In the UK though, there is slimline tonic, basically diet tonic. It has a lot less carbs than normal tonic. It was my drink of choice whilst on keto.

I'm not sure if it's available outside of UK

[–]omnicidial 1 point2 points  (4 children)

It does in fact, so they are correct in thinking it.

[–]manslutalt 0 points1 point  (3 children)

When I google tonic water it shows as 9% carbs. Beer shows as 3.6% carbs.

[–]omnicidial 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Standard tonic has no sweetener not sure what you're looking at.

[–]manslutalt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What do you consider standard?

I'm looking at Schweppes Tonic Water.

[–]TrueMetal 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Learn to drink Vodka and water or Gin...

Clear liquors are for children and pregnant women.

[–]neo9960 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Damn guys my bad. Do the bacon and eggs though that works. I'll switch out the tonic but diet tonic fucking sucks.

[–]Endorsed ContributorClint_Redwood 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Gonna second this. I can hold 8% BF at 200 and still get hammered every weekend if i want. Beer is definitely a killer, stay the hell away from it. My personal go too is a Johnny walker Double Black old fashion but jack and coke works just the same.

Second is having a strict diet. Lots of dudes fuck up when they drink because they get hungry and eat a shit ton more food than they should or eat food they wouldn't sober. I prefer a strict keto diet which is very similar to your recommendation, high fats, medium protein and low to no carbs. Studying ketogensis I learn how terrible carbs and glucose really is for you and the best thing of keto is your body processes and prioritizes the break down of fats and lipids over glucose and muscle. On average you will retain more muscle mass on a keto diet vs a traditional western diet. It also allows your body to handle typically 'bad' food like bacon way better. Your body actually starts breaking down LDL cholesterol(the bad shit that clogs arteries) for energy and ups HDL production. Just switching my diet and starting intermediate fasting has dropped my BF from 10%ish to 7-9% depending on the day. And I haven't worked out in 2 weeks due to an injury and it's still holding sub 10%.

It's all about having discipline and proper diet.

[–]truthyego 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lining stomach with saturated fat. Solid advice. Makes the difference between day after drinking diarrhea and normal function.

[–]Quatr0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hell yeah bro thanks for that write up

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really depends on your goals. I'm not afraid of a few hundred more calories of carbs.

[–]drawingroomgentleman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Your look and manner advertise something definite. They're making a statement, which has a text, context, and subtext. (Like the man said, 50% of my advertising budget is wasted--if only I knew which half.)

The good news is that advertising is only about presentation--appearance--seeming. It's one of the things that has the most potential to improve (in terms of attracting attention you want) in the shortest amount of time in your life. So that's a hopeful thought to hold onto.

It's relatively cheap to test a new look or to try on a new personality characteristic or way of relating to others, and you can have as much feedback as quickly as you can stand. It's a serious thing to not want to be rejected, bro, so don't overload yourself. Same as not injuring yourself/overtraining in your workouts. The body needs exercise, nutrition, and rest. The soul needs activity, acceptance/signifigance, and reflection.

The problem with attracting attention is that you don't get to choose whose attention you get until after the other party has indicated interest. At that point you filter aggressively for whatever grinds your organ. Be ruthless--I think it's better to say no as default then find a way to yes. Later you can try different options in presentation that ideally save you some of the bother of filtering while preserving the interest of whom you desire.

[–]TheRedStoic 3 points4 points  (4 children)

You'll be okay man. The nice part about being male is our ability to improve vastly outstrips women. There's only a window for women to be desirable, men can add money, connections, social proof, lift, and power, all well into their 60s if you really try, older if you really crush. You'll get there!

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Bam! I am 57 and am spinning HB6,7,8,9s in their 20's. Women are guaranteed attention from 15-30. Men earn attention from 25-65. We have it harder but better. Too bad about the romantic fantasies (I am a died in the wool romantic and it's a painful and bitter pill) but better to know than to be played like a fool your whole life.

[–]TheRedStoic 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Dude, you need to write a fr. Sorry that I missed this for so long.

[–]spurdosparade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I find it pretty strange, because I can only remember times when they did the "positive" stuff, and I consider myself a really low smv dude. I mean, I was 21 yo kissless virgin when I entered TRP.

IMO you just did not noticed or forget the "positive" stuff.

[–]JohnnyHammerstickz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Start juicing and get fucking swole. If you're that ugly you might as well get massive to try to turn the tide back in your favor a little

[–]beachbloke[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Yeah its a great feeling. Its kind of cute how transparent and predictable women are once you know these sort of things. One of the vanguards once said something along the lines of "Women are like kittens to me, I know how to rub their belly and spin them around and they have the same predictable response every time". So true.

Men definitely have the same kind of instinctual responses, but I'd say it is also more common for men to transcend their instincts, such as a lot of guys on TRP.

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points

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[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It is very subtle. We men are not engineered to notice and usually do not. I can't tell you how many times I've heard from a friend, male or female but especially female, "Didn't you see her? She wants you! Go talk to her!" Nope, I didn't notice at all...derp. I call it presenting and it's exactly like a cat in heat. They will pass by and lift their tail, wafting that female allure in your face.

[–]tridtrid 2 points2 points [recovered]

Girls never do this stuff to me. What should I work on first?

[–]nice_and_friendly 8 points9 points  (1 child)

appearance, posture, body language, eye contact. step 1 is be attractive, this is a combination of building your body at the gym and good grooming/wearing clothes that fit you. step 2 is body language. i grew up in detroit where you have to let other men know by the way you walk that if they fuck with you theyre gonna have a problem, so this comes naturally to me. i realize thats not the case for everyone, but its something that can definitely be learned and honed with practice. study men you admire and watch the way they carry themselves, and mimic it.

also, id entertain the possibility that women do do this stuff to you, but you just dont notice it yet. they are intentionally subtle. the only difference between a woman bending over infront of me at the store to grab eggs, and a woman bending over infront of me at the store to give me a good look at her ass, is the fact that i know i am hot shit and that i could have her if i wanted her. she didnt do that shit by accident, i am 100% sure. when you assume this frame and truly believe it in your bones, you start seeing this stuff left and right.

[–]stawek 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Lift. The effects will take a few months to show, years to really show.

Get a haircut and proper clothes. Get rid of all the gray, black and dark blue tops you have now, start wearing interesting clothes. If you don't know what you should be wearing - pay somebody who does. Same with hair - go to a good hairdresser and ask him for advice.

Improve your posture: chin up, sternum up, tighten abs, tighten glutes, straighten knees.

[–]AspotMadness 2 points3 points  (1 child)

wait, what's wrong with black and dark blue shirts man? I mean if they are nice and fit well.

White guys look horrible in pastel , but black and dark latino guys look really good in bright colors...It all depends.

[–]stawek 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, there is nothing wrong as such.

It's just that most of what people with no style wear is in those colours. You simply disappear in the crowd of people looking like you.

[–]NietzscheExplosion 72 points73 points  (23 children)

Frankly I find young women are clueless and have ZERO game.

Zoned into their phone and hardly ever look up.

[–]bornredd 68 points69 points  (2 children)

They are trying to garner attention on social media.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (1 child)

Where they would normally get attention from men in the real world, the phone and social media gives them a bigger and better dose of validation and attention.

Just as porn drains men's desire to go out and meet women, so too does social media drain women's drive to actually pay attention in the real world.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (19 children)

Trying to talk to some of the chicks at my highschool is fucking impossible. If it isn't about social media or getting fucked up, they aren't interested. Can't even talk in their interests either because they don't fucking have any.

[–]prettyflamazing 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Narcissism is running rampant in Gen Z. Whenever I get up to turn in a paper, I look to see what my classmates are doing on their phone. For every female, 9 times out of 10 it's Snapchat or Instagram.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It's an addiction, and not only that but it's an addiction that they hinge their self esteem on.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You can't state that strongly enough. FB, Snap, and Gram, not to mention Tinder and OKC, provide all the validation a girl needs for her addled psyche. It's tragic and hard to compete with so I don't. Now if I'm on a date or overnight, I tell them "turn that shit off when you're with me or I'm outta here. Later in the evening or after sex, I'll say "Do you need to check in with anybody? Go ahead, and then turn it off again. When we're together, it's you and me, not me and your phone." So far so good. They get it. It will be quite interesting to see where all of this goes in 20 years or more. Social engineering at it's worst/finest.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I try and do the same thing. The conversations I've had with people and that go on at lunch and during class are so much better because of it.

I imagine that you'll see a rise in both marriage and divorce rates in the following 20 years. Women who have been told since the time they were 13 that they were pretty and special will seek it out from anyone they can get it from. You'll see the betas get married more, but you'll also see a higher divorce rate from women who are unhappy in these marriages and with life in general.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (9 children)

They do when theyre attracted to you lol . Trust me a women whos into you never stfu

[–]RedPillFreedom 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If you are "hot" she will drop her shit for you.

For example, say you don't use social media and you'll be mysterious and interesting. You would be weird and abnormal if low smv but since you are higher than her it lets her hamster get the best of her. Even if you're just in school, play it off as you are busy and your main goal in life is your mission. Stay committed to it and as you rise in SMV. You'll notice girls just begin to show up.

Obligatory, Bill Burr skit

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children)

I'm mostly referring to the chicks who have no game like the ones mentioned above. They expect the guy to put in 100% of the effort in the conversation, even if they're attracted to him. I've seen it with myself and with my friends rather frequently. Like when you talk to them you get some of the signs like playing with hair and laughing/smiling over the top.

Shit, one of my friends is fucking a chick in one of our classes and she literally never talks to him. Never. I've seen them have maybe 3 20 second long conversations. That's why "sliding into DMs" is so popular.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 3 points4 points  (6 children)

3 20 second long conversations

Lucky him...lol

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Dude gets an astronomical amount of women and yet I've never ever seen him talk or flirt with chicks at school with any sort of regularity. He says he just hits them up on social media or they hit him up.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 0 points1 point  (4 children)

He may also be getting lots of girls because of his tight lips. Half the reason chicks of that age don't fuck is because they are afraid the guy will blab it all over.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

He's shown and sent me almost all of the nudes he has on his phone, which is well over 1000. He's also shown me videos chicks send him and talks in detail about chicks he fucks to me and his friends. Literally the least tight lipped person I've ever met in my life. Its actually awe inspiring just how little he cares about these chicks. And they absolutely love it. I always wondered how something like this could happen, and then I found this sub. And it all made sense lol.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It's indeed the strangest paradox, and one where the beta version that's inculcated in us men from birth seems to negate this reality, and yet, there it is, in all it's glistening glory. Who knows? Perhaps he is just an anomaly, has amazing natural charisma, good looks, and just doesn't care. When I "just don't care" in other words "outcome independent", I am a magnet for women, things, relationships and all the rest. By my own nature, I want to work for things. I want to care. I want to earn things. Gahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Perhaps this is the lesson of life. Let go and it will come.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It really does make absolutely no sense. I remember one time I was pursuing two different women (this was Wayy back in 9th grade) and one of them I acted like the typical nice guy and the other I had absolutely no filter and said whatever the fuck I wanted whenever I wanted. Guess which girl friend zoned me and guess which one pronounced her love for me? I literally couldn't have cared less about girl 2 and she would've let me do absolutely anything I wanted. I tried super hard with girl one and I got nowhere.

[–]stawek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be brutal about it, they aren't interested in you.

[–][deleted] 73 points73 points

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[–]RedPillFreedom 16 points17 points  (4 children)

LoL before TRP when girls asked to hangout or something along those lines. I would say no. Now, I know what they meant when let's go to the mall. It was just something to get us to meetup. But, I was so focused on me that I would decline and say I was busy. Now, I find it funny just declining their advances.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Sounds to me like they just wanted to use you for attention and company. If they wanted to date you, they'd be more subtle/flirty, and let you make the first move.

[–]RedPillFreedom 6 points7 points  (2 children)

That makes sense. After TRP, I assumed the ones that reached the kino stage were interested.

For example, the trigger is always eye contact and holding a gaze. After becoming familiar. She would always hug me upon saying farewell and when I headed for my car. Then, it progressed to arm rubbing on me, touching my feet, unnecessary touching and getting too close. Regardless, I just continued on with my work. Eventually, she called and tried getting together when not in school. I blew it because the whole time I was focused on improving me. Once, I decided I liked her I switched from RP to BP.

TLDR: Girl showed interest and after deciding to "like" her and pursue her. I became BP. The whole reason she liked me was because I was mysterious and she had to chase me.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Yes, if it gets to kino, it's on for sure. We learn from our mistakes, so don't sweat it. When I was young I slept in a girl's bed once, next to her, without making a move, and she invited me to sleep over. It can't get worse than that. But that episode was a defining moment for me with lots of lessons, so I'm grateful I was an idiot.

[–]Thaweed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Been there, done that.

But i feel like i have grown a lot since then.

[–]sorceryofthetesticle 29 points30 points  (12 children)

Too much ownership presence is beta. Be careful and deliberate with that one.

[–]FrankieTAE 11 points12 points  (8 children)

This was my one sticking point as well, glad I'm not the only one who caught it.

Being very deliberate in your attempts to be alpha often come across as extremely beta. Assuming ownership over everything has the potential to be too over the top if not done intelligently.

[–]beachbloke[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

This is what I meant with how it is difficult to explain with text. A guy can mimic the symptoms of power but it is like putting bandaids on a leper. You have to be it not just act it

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I totally get it. I owned my own restaurants, in a tourist town for years. When you walk out from the back during dinner time, and casually stroll through the tables asking diners if they're happy with their service and food...heh heh, every female in the place notices. I can't tell you how many hotties I pulled those years, and they were there on vacay with boyfriends.

[–]sorceryofthetesticle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I see what you mean... Too deliberate is unnatural. Maybe deliberate was too ambiguous. I mean something more like discerning; you want to be able to decide what warrants your 'ownership.' That ability is what sets you apart from busybodies like in op's example.

[–]SteezDeezl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm sure that he i lilies naturl ownership. Being "in the zone" as he put it. I call it being strong with the force. I'm sure every guy has at least felt the internal power when younhave natural self confidence and you feel like a fucking super sayian

[–]TheThingsIThink 1 points1 points [recovered]

It seems obsessive compulsive to be walking around pushing chairs is. maybe passive aggressive.

[–]beachbloke[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The chair is just an example. The idea is what is important. Say you are in an office. Most people don't give a fuck if the printer paper is empty. If you notice its empty and put paper in not to be nice, but just because you want your space to be right, people will notice that and assume you are the boss because that's what a boss might do. For another example, I go to sponsored black tie events and almost every time people assume I am one of the sponsors because its obvious I "own" everything. They think I have the authority, and I do, just not the authority they assume.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I used to be the guy that fixed the printer when it was jammed. so I got called for every damn printer problems . once your showing comptentence and willingness to work outside your job then you will be expected to... to the point that the job your graded on will suffer

[–]beachbloke[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is because you fixed it to be nice and continued fixing it to be nice. If someone tells me to fix the printer, I will say "No, you need to learn how to fix the printer. Come here. You're going to fix it this time and I'm going to tell you how."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What do you mean by "ownership presence?"

[–]Disposable_TRP 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think an intelligent application of this concept would constitute insisting on things like pushing one's own chair in.

[–]zephyrprime 23 points24 points  (2 children)

I'm glad someone is posting some practical field advice on game and not just talking about high smv.

[–]JihadDerp 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Well, don't forget to lift or else these things will never happen.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's funny because when I was first unplugging however long ago, I was balls deep in theory and looked down on these game posts. But on the other side, they're the only ones I read now. And they're rare because a lot of that user base has moved on.

[–]nevva_Again 35 points36 points  (6 children)

Rule 4 - 5 minutes or bust

If you stand no chance after 5 minutes, then it's either she wasn't attracted to you in the first place, or she has a very low smv (or low self esteem) and thinks you don't find her attractive.

If she's attracted to you, she'll make it very easy for you. The longer you take to approach her, the easier she'll make it for you. But you must have a higher smv than hers.

She'll give you more IOIs, find a way to stand closer to you, intentionally cross your path, look for an excuse to ask you an unnecesary question, feign interest in whatever you are doing, etc.

This works especially well on hot girls. They are so used to male attention and validation that they cannot understand why a guy(with high smv) can just ignore them. They reason, ''maybe he hasn't noticed me, I'll try harder''. Its very interesting to observe them.

I experience this all the time in my social circle. Girls with low smv(or low self esteem) will disappear if you don't talk to them. But with hot girls, the more you ignore them, the more they make themselves available.

Because I don't want to give them any hope that they have a chance with me, I go out of my way to avoid them (don't shit where you eat), yet they keep doubling their effort. It's ridiculous.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (1 child)

The thing here, she noticed you checking her out. You can't play the "I am not interested in you" card anymore. If you "ignore" her, that'll mean you don't have the balls to approach her, since she already knows you're interested in her.

[–]dareealmvp 4 points5 points  (0 children)

From what I've inferred, you have to continue playing hard-to-get after you've started talking to her, rather than not talking to her at all.

A perfect analogy for this in terms of penises would be you shouldn't suppress your boner (aka shouldn't avoid talking to the woman). You should have a raging boner (aka talking to her and seducing her full-on) but be able to hold it there without being affected by it (aka continue to play hard-to-get) because you're so used to being hard and getting sex (aka so used to being around hot chicks).

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

true, I lost so many fun average chicks because i treated them the same way i treat super hot girls.

Especially as your smv gets higher they need even more attention to prove you actually care about them.

Its really something you notice as you get more experience, you start knowing when or not you should give more attention

[–]beachbloke[S] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

The 5 minute rule starts after you look at a woman, and you are right that a woman may stick around longer if she is especially interested or there is some outside reason. For instance I was playing pool yesterday and a woman I wasnt interested in spent about an hour 'practicing' alone at the next table when there were a dozen other tables she could have picked. However I didn't let her know I was paying attention to her so she eventually left because some friends dragged her away. However if I turned around and obviously checked her out, she would have left within 5 minutes if I didn't introduce myself. I've experimented with it so many times it is very predictable.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Agreed. After 5 she has to protect her ego.

[–]vorverk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a window of oppurtunity that women gives you. If you miss it, you're done. Higher the SMV you have, more options she will give you. But once you miss them all, you are over.

[–]vorverk 11 points12 points  (0 children)

This is what I want more on TRP. Sexual strategies and action, and less circlejerking meta philosophy theories and angry mgtows.

[–]Monkey_Jerk 7 points8 points  (21 children)

Another contradiction in the PUA/TRP community.

We're told to approach even without IOI's because it's the "masculine thing to do" and "you miss every shot you don't take".

But now we have

Women are extremely persistent when it comes to men they are attracted

Women are 100% of the time aware of all of the men around them.

if a woman is attracted to you, she will be near you. Likewise, if a woman is not attracted to you, she will purposefully distance herself from you.

And I agree with OP. Why bother if there is no indication at all that she's interested. I'd really like to hear from those that promote the former statements.

[–]manslutalt 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Some guys don't pick up subtle IOIs or don't usually get any at all. Those guys really should approach as much as they can. Physically attractive/high SMV guys with good awareness can pick and choose. There is no contradiction because the advice is aimed at different audiences.

[–]Monkey_Jerk 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Let's leave out the guys who don't pick up on IOIs. What's the purpose of approaching without IOIs if the most likely outcome is rejection? Don't say to get used to rejection because if you only go after women who are interested, rejection rate will be low.

[–]manslutalt 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Leaving out the oblivious guys leaves us with the low SMV guys. If they only approached when they got IOIs they would almost never approach. They wouldn't improve their game much, they would hardly ever get laid, and they would never get abundance mentality.

[–]Monkey_Jerk 0 points1 point  (2 children)

They wouldn't improve their game much

When a girl is into you, you don't need much game. The interactions just flow. Basic social skills, not agreeing with everything she says and not being clingy is all you need really.

they would hardly ever get laid

Approaching women who have no interest in them won't remedy this.

would never get abundance mentality.

Getting rejected over and over won't help that.

Low smv guys need to improve their smv first. Oblivious guys need to learn IOIs.

[–]manslutalt 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You're not wrong, but it's clear you've never been in my shoes. It feels like no women are interested. Improving SMV isn't done overnight and approaching women is a necessary ingredient in that.

[–]Monkey_Jerk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It feels like no women are interested.

If these are your shoes then I'm wearing them. I get maybe one woman a month giving me eye contact.

[–]bonerfleximus 4 points5 points  (4 children)

By approaching and being bold (assume attraction) you can generate interest where there previously was none. This is where PUA differs greatly from TRP community when it comes to sexual strategy. PUA focuses on the actions you can take (external) to get sex. TRP promotes internalizing principles to get sex (internal). Neither is wrong, and the optimal strategy is somewhere between the two. I actually think PUA takes a more active approach and is more effective at making you into the man TRP communities prescribe us to be. TRP says "you should be like this" but doesn't say that the way to becoming that man is by risking getting rejected over and over until it no longer affects you and learning that boldness is rewarded. TRP can describe the ideal man and tell you when you are not that man, but it doesn't tell you how to become him.

[–]Monkey_Jerk 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Bar the first sentence which I don't completely agree with, I agree with everything else but this sub upvotes posts that advocate blindly cold approaching and posts like the OP.

[–]bonerfleximus 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Cold approaching is good but not blindly unless you have a lot of time to waste. IOIs help you pick ideal targets and give you a sense of when to make certain moves but a lot of guys won't do shit without an IOI and that's a mistake too. You can create interest where there previously was none is my point.

You can do this indirectly by demonstrating social proof/prowess in their proximity without giving them direct attention. You can also do it directly by being bold and approaching with the right energy level and angle. The direct approach is much more ballsy and requires more practice, but is ultimately more time efficient. By direct approaching you demonstrate you have no fear of them, giving yourself a higher perceived social value in their mind. The key is knowing the correct angle and energy level which takes social awareness gained through practice.

Your energy level will be much higher at a club vs a grocery store. Your angle at a club also requires more thought, because everyone is hyperaware of these things in that atmosphere. Hit on a nice girl in front of her friends with a douchey line? Get shot down. Hit on a nice girl alone with "can I buy you a drink?" Get used and discarded by the first chad that comes along. At the grocery store it's much simpler because they aren't in that mindset there. "What did you plan to make with those ingredients? Sounds amazing...I've tried cooking xxx before and it turned out like shit"

[–]Monkey_Jerk 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You can create interest where there previously was none is my point.

I know but I don't completely agree with that. My take on it is that that's only possible if she finds you physically attractive but just didn't notice you right away. Social proof (unless it's by models or celebs) and approaching directly won't make you attractive enough if a woman thinks you're ugly/average/not good looking enough.

[–]bonerfleximus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

100% not true. That's your insecurities talking and there's a sea of evidence to back this up. Watch Owen from RSD if you need something easily consumable, otherwise go outside

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points

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[–]Monkey_Jerk 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I don't agree. Women might not be as visually oriented but they aren't too far behind men. In the video example she probably liked him already but put on a front either consciously or subconsciously. I think if a guy was high value with abundance, why would he bother chasing a woman who, even if it's a front, doesn't show IOIs immediately? He'd move onto women who actually want to be around him. And a woman like in the video would too high maintenance anyway.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

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[–]Monkey_Jerk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Each to their own. I personally wouldn't bother with a woman who's a bitch from the start.

[–]RedPimpin 1 point2 points  (1 child)

-she thinks she's not good enough


-doesn't know how to show interest

-doesn't even know that she likes you

[–]Monkey_Jerk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

First three are possible but number four contradicts Rule 3 of the OP.

[–]BehrGris 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Some women won't realize they're attracted to you until you open your mouth. Women aren't as visual as men

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

keep on telling yourself that lol

[–]BehrGris 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sometimes you just gotta man an up & say hi. Regardless of if she gives you a special look or not smh

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I just failed all 4 of these rules during an approach. If I'd read this beforehand, I wouldn't have felt like shit when I saw the girl get out of the pool laughing to her self and then get on her phone to probably text one of her hoes about me.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's why we're all here, to learn and share the knowledge.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Bingo. I too have noticed/learned the same. Women present themselves for you to approach. They may look like they are ignoring you but if they're within 20 feet, it's because they placed themselves there and are waiting for you to approach. It's almost comical. You can count the seconds and watch them do their dance if you know it's coming. Also very true, they give you an opportunity. If you don't take it, the door slams shut.

[–]AcedtheTuringTest 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I could be naive about this, but regarding rule 3, I remember I was sitting at a roulette table at the Bellagio in Vegas, playing a few rounds and chit-chatting with the dealer.

I am the only one there, the other players have since moved on to other tables. This stunning Italian woman, dressed very smartly, knows how gorgeous she is, plops down in the seat right next to me. There must be at least 8 other empty seats around us, yet she chose that one.

This was during a time when my mental fortitude wasn't up to par (I missed a golden opportunity later that weekend on a pretty older woman traveling here for a teacher's convention) and I wasn't very confident so of course I was too scared to say anything.

She gave it a couple of rounds and then got up and disappeared. Now, she could have either seen me as an easy target (man sitting by himself with a stack of chips in front of him) or there was genuine attraction, I don't know.

Point is, it happened, I didn't do anything about it, but a lesson learned.

[–]beachbloke[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I have found women often mix their motives, but if they give you proximity, sexual attraction is at least one of their motives. So I strongly think in your case she was curious about you and you failed. She may have also thought she could get money out of you, but the attraction was there also. I have been approached by women in this way who I thought were out of my league and to my surprise they were quite open and continued giving other IOIs while we talked. If a woman is within arms reach of you, it is 100% game on, always.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Sidebar material right here

[–]ChickenBalotelli 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Simple and super applicable. Good post. Thankyou for sharing the knowledge

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

FYI, in bar and club settings you only have about one 60 seconds to approach when women give you proximity. You'll know it because like the OP stated above they have the entire venue to situate themselves, but park themselves within a 10-15 bubble around you. You can quite seriously time them on a stopwatch. Right about the 60 second mark, give or take, they'll leave if you don't approach. It's quite fascinating in the sense of how reliable/recurring this phenomenon is.

[–]corsega 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Short: While men are sexually aware (radar turned on) about 10-50% of the time, women are sexually aware 100% of the time.

Citation needed. I personally believe these numbers should be reversed.

[–]beachbloke[S] 21 points22 points  (2 children)

This is what I thought as well but I now believe the opposite. If you notice what teenage girls like to do the most, it is going to places where there are boys and watching them. Compare that to what teenage boys like to do, which is play sports and do anything else that is competitive. Men are focused on action and women are focused on men.

[–]sorceryofthetesticle 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Lines up with reproductive strategy. They seek quality, and how else do you discern quality but through lengthy study?

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They need to find the leaders...leaders of other males. They are looking for a male that will build, protect, and succeed. Men just want to find healthy and fit mothers for their offspring. You can tell that in a moment and it has little to do with the female's social standing. I'm speaking on a biological level.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Get a motorcycle. Great for gaming and screening women. Women who ask for a ride want to ride more than just your bike.

[–]antwonedw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a good quality post.

Going to put it in practice.

[–]1introvertp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The 'ownership presence' starts when you enter the room. You must first SMILE. Get in the habit of smiling when you've enter a venue, pass through a door or just go into the next room, smile like you have good news for everyone, smile like you own the place!


Proximity is real. I think most of us are aware of it on a gut level but we're too scared to make the approach. You wonder whether to go direct or indirect then you get into your head and rationalize that maybe it's just by coincidence she's there and your 5 minutes are up.

Try approaching neutral. For example if she's on the bar then you order your drink, turn to the girl in proximity and use a neutral opener like "Hi, how are you?" (smile). If she responds poorly then there was no rejection you just continue doing what you're doing, or barrel through. If there is a positive reaction you continue and meet her.

[–]Locogooner 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good post.

However, I think we should all stop touting figures without citing where you got them from. If they are in fact anecdotal, that does render them useless.

[–]DrGaiynz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice to read the 5 minutes or bust rule, it's something I learned with time but first time I see someone else talk about it; it's ridiculous how systematic it is in a club for example: girl comes out of nowhere, dances clearly intentionally close to you, if you don't speak to her in the following minutes, you don't get to ever see her again. I even thought in my more naive years that if they were really interested they would be the ones making the first move. Needless to say I've grown up ever since

[–]cynicalsimon -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Pursuing women is not logical in today's day and age unless you'd like to be a used tampon