Red Pill TheoryHOW TO GET LAID LIKE A WARLORD: 37 Rules of Approaching Model-Tier Girls (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by 2MikeHainesx2

A complete guide to picking up 9s and 10s
Today I want to tell you everything I know about getting the highest calibre girls from cold approach.
This guide will cover: frame control, inner game, and passing tests — which I consider to be the holy trinity of “9 and 10 game”.
This guide will NOT cover: body language, pulling, or handling logistics. Obviously, the latter are extremely important, but they’ve been adequately covered elsewhere, and there just isn’t space to include them here.


My background
Picked on in school, small and sickly, didn’t have a girlfriend until 18. Was dumped by her and spent the first 2 years of college pretty much celibate.
Got into redpill ideas through the old “Citizen Renegade” blog (which is now Heartiste). From there stumbled on RSD’s infield videos.
Started going out and approaching regularly. Approach anxiety and ceaseless rejection for months, but I kept at it. The odd success here and there.
After about 2 years I was fucking a new girl every fortnight or so, mostly 7s and 8s with the occasional turbo when fortune smiled on me. My current girlfriend is a 9, has done modelling etc.


Below is everything I know about getting the hottest women from cold approach pickup. This is specially engineered for getting 9s and 10s and dealing with the kind of bullshit these girls will inevitably give you.
If you’re more into sleeping with tons of 7s (and there’s nothing wrong with that), this might be overkill.
When I was single I personally was one of those guys who would rather fuck half a dozen 9s/10s in a year than 50 mid range girls, so my whole approach to game is based on optimizing for that.
Take it for what it is — I’m not saying my approach is better, this is just how I roll based on my preferences.
This is a long post. You may want to bookmark it and return to it later if you’re particularly concerned with getting the hottest girls. There’s a lot of subtle points in here that won’t be immediately clear on a first reading.





1. Women are attracted to you because you have a stronger frame than they do.
That’s all.
There’s nothing else to it.
Attraction is purely a function of the fact that:
1. you’re a man
2. you have a stronger frame than the girl
As a man, you naturally have a strong frame of reality whereas women don’t. Therefore they value that. (Having a strong frame is a result of high testosterone levels.)


2. Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame than a handsome guy with a weak one
Evolution has designed women to be very flexible in terms of who they’ll become attracted to.
Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame (i.e. a natural leader) than a handsome guy with a weak frame (cowardice, uncertainty).
That’s because women who chose to fuck the latter ultimately had their genes rooted out of existence by the brutal conditions of ancestral life.
In consequence, women now are very adaptable. They have the capacity to be attracted to almost ANY man so long as his frame is stronger than hers.


3. A girl can ONLY get horny for you if you have a stronger frame than her.
Think of this like a mathematical equation. There’s no getting around it, no cheating it, no short-circuiting it. It is an immutable law.
Women want to submit to you. They want to submit to a strong man. But she can’t submit to you if your frame is weaker than hers.
Physiologically, girls can’t even become wet for a guy who has a weaker frame than they do. It’s literally impossible.


4. “Be a man. Act like you have answers.” (Bill Burr)
What is a strong frame? Fundamentally, it’s a sense of certainty in everything you do. This certainty manifests itself as calmness in the face of social pressure.
Simply put, in a cold approach pickup, the woman becomes attracted to you because you’re more relaxed than she is.
That’s all.
That might seem strange, but it’s actually not.
The very fact that you approached the girl at all demonstrates a massive amount of confidence and social value (either real or potential).
So once you’ve approached the girl and gotten her into a conversation, the game is yours to lose. She’ll inevitably become attracted to you because you’re a man, and because you have a stronger frame than she does.


5. Relax
You will approach women, and you will make mistakes. That’s fine. Women don’t want you to be perfect. They only want you to be a man.
You are not physically perfect. Neither am I. Neither is anyone.
Women are not looking for perfection. They’re only looking for a man who has a stronger psychological frame than they do.
And fortunately for you, you already have a naturally stronger frame than women.
An example of this is how women will freak out over spiders or mice, jump up and down, scream, and so on, whereas a man will calmly deal with the situation without it breaking his frame.


6. She tests your frame to test your masculinity. The two are the exact same thing.
Women are attracted to masculinity. And masculinity can be defined as a measure of how much pressure a man can endure without it breaking his frame.
When you approach a hot woman, she immediately starts trying to break down your frame.
She’s testing it for strength.
If your frame crumbles in the face of her frame, she knows you’re not a man — because men have a stronger frame than women.
Fortunately, your frame will not crumble. A girl’s frame will always “buckle” under yours after you pass several of her tests. It’s instinctual. Women want to be with the strong man. When she sees you have a strong frame she starts getting wet.


7. “Listen, smile, nod, agree — then do what the fuck you were gonna do anyway.” (Robert Downey Jr.)
Women test me all the time. Women have said things to me that are totally brutal — called me ugly, too short, a loser, etc.
Most of the women I approach will make a weird face or pretend to ignore me for the first 10-20 seconds.
It doesn’t penetrate. It doesn’t cause any emotional reaction whatsoever inside me. I smile, nod, agree and then keep talking to her as if she’s being nice to me.
Eventually, she starts responding. Then she starts laughing. And then we have sex.
A woman’s frame will ALWAYS buckle under yours. It’s not a question of “if”, but “when”.


8. Chasing hot girls gives you a “charge”
When you’re first getting into game, it’s fine to only approach 5s and 6s.
Many of these girls will be super nice to you, and that’s cool. A lot of them are fantastic in bed.
But once you start to get some experience, you’re naturally going to want to move up the ladder and start laying 8s, 9s and 10s.
This is a natural instinct, and it’s good. It’s okay to chase girls just because they’re hot. These girls want you to chase them. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t make themselves hot.
Part of being a man is that you can appreciate a woman’s beauty and femininity. It gives you a charge. And pursuing women who are “out of your league” (by society’s false standards) also gives you a charge.


9. Seducing a 9 is no different from seducing a 5
The process of attraction is exactly the same. The only difference is that the hot girl’s frame is stronger than the chubby girl’s.
But ultimately, no matter how strong a hottie’s frame is, your frame will always be stronger, because you’re a man.


10. Women will test you brutally when they want to sleep with you
When you approach any hot girl, she’ll test your frame HARD to see if it’s strong.
She’ll act like a bitch. She’ll pretend to ignore you. She’ll tell you outright to go away.
She wants to see if you’ll buckle to social pressure, or if your frame will remain calm and consistent regardless of external feedback.
She actually WANTS to sleep with you — but she needs to test your strength first.
Don’t be fooled by the bitch persona for a second. It’s a carefully cultivated TEST.
Most men fail the test because they don’t even realize they’re being tested.


11. Fight Club analogy
Getting a hot woman into bed is like the hazing scene in Fight Club where the new recruits are lined up outside the door.
Tyler berates the recruits with personal insults. “Too old, go away.” “Too fat, go away.”
He forces them to stand outside for days. He tells them there’s no possibility they’re getting in. Most give up. But the few who stay are ultimately invited inside.
Seducing the hottest women is the same. It’s a WAR OF ATTRITION.
Women will fuck pretty much any guy who’s around at the end of the night so long as he has a stronger frame than she does.
But you have to stick around. You can’t leave when she insults you or acts like she doesn’t want to talk to you. If you do, you’re failing her tests.
We’ll get into the mechanics of passing these tests in a moment. First we need to talk about inner game, which is the basis of out-framing anyone.





12. The battle is won or lost inside you before it’s ever fought
We’ve said that the only way to AROUSE a woman to the point that she wants to sleep with you off cold approach is to pass her tests.
How do you pass these tests?
The first principle is to understand is that all tests are FRAME tests. The entire purpose of tests is to see if you have a strong frame that won’t buckle under pressure.
Therefore, it’s useless begin with talking about “how to pass tests”. The real value is in having a strong frame to begin with. As Sun Tzu says in the Art of War, “every battle is won or lost before it’s ever fought.”


13. The “I am enough” frame = the gold dust that gets you 9s and 10s
The basis of your inner game is the idea that “you are enough”. In other words, you have value to women simply because you’re a man.
Everything else is built upon that foundation.
You don’t have to “do” anything to attract a girl. She’s attracted to you simply because you’re more relaxed than she is.
You don’t have to change anything. You don’t have to improve your “game” beyond what it’s at now. You don’t need to become better looking.
You CAN do all these things if you want and they will help you. But you don’t have to.
You’re already “good enough” simply because you’re a man — because you’ve got testosterone and a dick. Women value that.


14. Men and women are meant to get together
We fit together like a key and a lock.
There have been studies done in which women smell men’s sweaty t-shirts, and it changes the chemistry of their brain — making them more relaxed and calm.
Your “male-ness” is inherently attractive to women. Same way as their femininity is inherently attractive to you.


15. Standards are a myth — everyone is a horny scoundrel
We have been brainwashed in our culture into believing that people (women) have something called “standards”.
Women don’t have any standards — not really. Neither do men.
Imagine you’re naked in bed with a “4”. She’s kinda chubby, plain face, you probably wouldn’t be proud of the lay, whatever. But her skin’s soft, she smells good, and she’s naked and wet.
Are you going to say no?
Probably not, if we’re being honest with each other. You’d almost definitely fuck her if you could be CERTAIN that (a) she’d leave afterwards, and (b) no one would find out.
There’s a natural magnetism between men and women. We have no willpower around each other.
Women are the same way. Take it from someone who’s “shot out of his league” too many times to count.


16. Be her cheat meal
You can be a “4” and she can be a “9”. If the circumstances are right, she’ll fuck you so long as there’s no downside. Why? Because sex feels good.
Even the hottest, slimmest yoga bunny pigs out on pizza every once in a while. It’s human nature. We’re not strong. We’re weak.
We pretend to have “standards” to the outside world. But down deep inside, no one has any standards, and we know it. We have no will, no self-control.
Hot women are the same.
If you can hold frame, pass a woman’s test, and lead her to somewhere sex can happen while creating plausible deniability, she WILL fuck you.
You’d be amazed how easy it is when you get it down.


17. Stop thinking you need to be an “alpha” to get hot girls — helpful at first but it will ultimately stress you out
Your frame is: “I am enough.”
Your frame is NOT “I’m a badass alpha who’s better than everyone”.
That’s hard to uphold in the face of conflicting evidence, and will cause cognitive dissonance and stress.
It’s simply: “Women and men are meant to get together. I’m a man. Therefore, women are already attracted to me on some baseline level.”
That’s not a hard frame to maintain. It doesn’t stretch the truth. It doesn’t cause cognitive dissonance.
And therefore it’s MUCH MORE RESILIENT in the face of tests and resistance — which is the most CRITICAL element to getting the hottest girls.


18. Cultivate a “reality distortion field”
In order to do this, you must fully INTERNALIZE the “I am enough” belief system.
Understanding it in theory isn’t enough. You have to feel it with your whole “mass”. You have to believe it with total, unquestioning, brainwashed conviction.
The more you think about the idea that there’s no reason you’re not enough, the more it will feel “true”. (Things become true to us through repetition, not through logic.)
Use self-hypnosis if necessary. Find every reason you can to support the belief that you’re enough, while cultivating “deliberate blindness” to anything that contradicts it.
Don’t be a slave to logic. Make logic a slave to you. This is how you cultivate a “reality distortion field”.





19. Enduring tests = building attraction
When you approach a woman, she immediately starts testing you. By passing her tests, you demonstrate that your frame is stronger than hers. This makes her horny for you.
Women are wired in such a way that they can’t become wet for a man unless he’s overcome some kind of resistance to get her. Hence, tests actually help you to seduce her. You want her to test you. The more tests you endure, the faster she’ll sleep with you.
When a girl is so into you that she doesn’t test you, this is how you end up on a 3rd date with a woman who still won’t put out.
Tests are your friend.


20. Passing tests is where ALL attraction is ultimately generated.
Attraction is NOT generated by pickup lines and witty comebacks.
Attraction is NOT generated by manipulation techniques.
Attraction is NOT generated by looks or money.
All of these things WILL increase your probabilities of getting laid, and make your game smoother and more streamlined.
But they’re NOT what builds ATTRACTION.
The one and ONLY thing that builds attraction is ENDURING A WOMAN’S TESTS.
The reason for this is obvious when you think about it:


21. Enduring her tests = ability to overcome adversity = GOOD GENES
Women have to see you have a strong frame, because otherwise they have no confidence that you’ll be able to protect them and remain calm in the face of danger.
And the ONLY way they can figure out if you have strong frame is by testing you, being bitchy, insulting you, brushing you off, ignoring you, etc.
That might seem “unfair” to you.
But if you can’t handle the abuse from some blonde chick in a bar, how the fuck are you going to handle beating a 7ft tall man to death with your bare hands when he and his tribe invade your village and try to gang-rape your girl?
Think about it.


22. Women aren’t built for Starbucks. They’re built for the African savannah.
Women aren’t built for the modern world. They’re built for nature, red in tooth and claw.
If you understand that, you’ll do things differently. You won’t take it so personally when you approach a girl and she tries to destroy you.
It’s necessary.
Hot women aren’t acting bitchy to you because of feminism. They’re acting bitchy to you because they WANT to fuck you — but they can only do so after they’ve proved that you have a stronger frame than they do.
This is instinctual. It’s part of the natural order.
Innate female bitchiness existed long before feminism. Testing men who approach them is encoded into female DNA.
When you get bitter at hot women for testing you, you’re being just as anti-nature as feminists themselves.


23. Eliminate self-destructive beliefs
There’s a common myth in the seduction community that a girl who acts “bitchy” to your approach is fundamentally flawed and therefore “not worth pursuing”.
This is totally ludicrous.
In fact, it’s just an incidence of “sour grapes” — cognitive games we play with ourselves to rationalize that the grapes we can’t reach are sour.
The reality is that if a girl has ANY VALUE WHATSOEVER, then she will test you hard during your first approach.


24. Embrace tests
Do you want a woman who says yes to every cock who comes along without putting up the slightest resistance?
Or do you want a woman who actually DISCRIMINATES among men based on their value — and who CHOSE YOU over hundreds of other suitors because you had the highest value?
If you’re a normal, healthy man, you want the second woman — and that means you must LOGICALLY EXPECT her to test you hard, and to test you with everything she’s got.
And you must not only expect tests, but APPRECIATE them.
You LIKE it when a girl acts bitchy on your approach. It means that if you settle down with her, she’s likely to act bitchy to OTHER GUYS who approach her, scaring them away.
The higher a woman’s value (in looks and character), the harder she will test you by ACTING “boring” and “bitchy”. This is the way it is and will be. This way and not some other way.
Luckily, passing tests is the fastest way to create arousal and horniness. This means that, paradoxically, the hottest women are often the easiest to seduce if you know how to pass their tests.


Women will give you two types of tests — active tests and passive tests.


25. Active tests
Active tests are covered frequently in PUA literature.
When a woman insults you, belittles you, mocks you, or says something provocative to get a reaction — these are all examples of active tests.
Common “brush-off” lines like telling you she has a boyfriend, saying you’re a nice guy, telling you LJBF — these are also active tests.
I won’t talk much about passing active tests as this material has already been done to death in the redpill/PUA world. (Just look up anything on “shit tests”.)
Suffice to say, the best way to pass active tests is to either:
a. Agree and amplify.
b. Ignore the test and continue as if you didn’t even hear it.
Generally speaking, getting active tests is VERY GOOD. If the girl’s actively testing you, it means she’s definitely interested. It’s also a very easy way to demonstrate your strength of frame by being a charming asshole in response.


26. How to get past her “bitch shield” persona and into her knickers: recognize and endure passive tests
But there is another type of test, which is MUCH more important to understand.
This is the PASSIVE TEST. This is almost NEVER covered by PUA/redpill literature — yet these tests are actually the most COMMON you’ll encounter, particularly when dealing with 9s and 10s.
Passive testing happens when you approach a girl and she appears to be INDIFFERENT, BORED, or ALOOF.
“Resting bitch face” is a passive test. Giving you only one word answers is a passive test.
And — my favorite — when you go to approach a hot girl and she looks at you with a face of half-disgust, half-horror, and runs away.
Utterly BRUTAL as it seems — yes, even THAT is a test.


27. Don’t confuse passive tests with “rejection”
99% of guys interpret passive tests as REJECTION. Even natural alphas do.
And that’s totally understandable.
I mean, it makes sense right?
If you approach a stunner and she takes one look at you before making a “creeped out” face to her friend, and then they run away — that’s obviously a rejection, right?
Well, what if I told you that at least half the women I’ve slept with in my life reacted like that (or similarly badly) when I approached them?
Here’s a particularly good example:


28. “Rejection” is not rejection
There was this girl I went to college with. Brunette, hot, did modeling work in her spare time, socially was one step down from a “minor celebrity” in my city.
Probably one of the 10 or 15 hottest girls in my college.
I always wanted to fuck this girl, because she seemed smart and interesting as well as just hot. But I rarely saw her around.
One day she passed me in the stairwell, and I thought “this is probably the only chance I’m ever going to get”.
So I approached her and blurted. “Hi, I’m Mike”. Good eye contact. Held my hand out to shake hers. Whatever.
She looked at me like I had leprosy.
I mean, she literally RECOILED. Her eyes went wide in horror, as if I was trying to infect her with AIDS.
She shook my hand limply and muttered some social nicety back, then ran away swiftly.
WOW… Now THAT’S a rejection, right?
Well, the story has an addendum. That woman is now my girlfriend. Has been for three years. She’ll probably be the mother of my children.
So what’s going on here?
If she was attracted to me (which she later told me she was), why did she appear to “reject” me?
Answering this question is the THE KEY to mastering all of game and social dynamics. You ready?
Ok, here we go:


29. You are TOO HIGH VALUE
Yes, you read that correctly.
When you’re getting “rejected” by girls, it’s because YOU’RE TOO HIGH VALUE FOR THEM, and it makes them nervous and self-conscious.
Stay with me here. I know this sounds paradoxical, but try to grasp it.


30. Women are nervous around you
When you approach a woman out of the blue, it demonstrates a LOT of value. More than you probably realize.
This is because 97% of guys DON’T APPROACH AT ALL. (Those who do are usually drunk and sloppy.)
This means that if you’re an average to fair looking guy, and you cold approach a girl, you’ve just put yourself in the top 3% of men in terms of confidence.
In other words, she is going to naturally ASSUME that you are an alpha male (whether this is true or not).
This makes her NERVOUS and SELF-CONSCIOUS. She’s ill at ease around you because she wants to make a good impression.
So she tries to act “cool”, “aloof”, and “standoffish”… because she feels awkward.
She says bitchy things… because she can’t think of anything else to say.
She run aways… because she feels anxious around you and doesn’t know what to do next.
In other words: you’re coming across as TOO HIGH VALUE.
Women are nervous around you. Be patient with them!
Dumb yourself down. Hold frame, tease them, keep smiling warmly.
Eventually they’ll open up and start laughing, flirting back, and ultimately get turned on by the fact that you out-framed them in a way no other man ever has.





#1. You approach her, say hi, and she makes a weird face, or pretends to ignore you.
Simply keep talking as if you expect her to talk back. She’s nervous and self-conscious and doesn’t know what to say. That’s why she’s acting “bitchy” — you’re too high value for her and she feels anxious, causing her to try to act cool.
Don’t react to her. Keep your body language open and relaxed. Warm smile, unwavering eye contact. Keep talking. Eventually she’ll start talking back and responding positively.


#2. You’re talking to a girl and she acts indifferent or aloof, only gives you one word answers, or keeps looking off into the distance
Again, you simply have to ENDURE IT. Keep talking, keep being playful. Teasing her a little bit never hurts either. “Are you this charming with all the guys?” “This bitchy cheerleader persona you’re putting on is really turning me on, please keep it going ;-)”
When she sees you’re not going to go away so easily, her frame will crack. She’ll start to smile. Attraction.


#3. You’re talking to a girl and she leaves to go to the bathroom, says “I have to go find my friends”, or runs away for no apparent reason.
Let her go. Then re-approach her later. I can’t tell you how many girls have run off on me, then I approach them half an hour later and they’re like “Oh it’s you!” and then we hook up.
Why do women leave? Again, they’re NERVOUS.
Have you ever approached a hot girl and things were going TOO WELL? The girl is smiling and laughing…. she’s responding well… and…. you freak out! You don’t know what else to do, but you don’t want to fuck it up, so you leave set!
GIRLS DO THIS TOO. Women will “run out of things to say” and run away because they’re nervous and overwhelmed by being in a high value person’s presence, same as guys will.
Let her go, then re-approach her next time you see her.
She will respond extremely well 90% of the time in my experience. She’ll literally be GRATEFUL to you that you gave her another chance. Women have told me this explicitly.


#4. If you’re talking to a girl and she tells you outright that you should leave, or says “well, you should go back to your friends”, “it was nice meeting you”, etc.
Smile, nod, agree, and then continue talking to her as if she said nothing. Never leave set because a girl tells you to.
SHE can walk away if she wants. She has that right.
But in a public space like a bar or nightclub, you’re well within your rights to talk to whoever you want.
It’s Saturday night. It’s a social environment. You’re mixing with people.
You’re free to talk to whoever you want, and she’s free to walk away at any time.
But if she tells YOU to leave, it’s simply a test of your frame. She wants to see that you won’t buckle under social pressure.
Pass the test by ignoring it. If she tells you to leave again, look her in the eye with a sly smile and say “You’re free to go if you want to.”
Her eyes will light up and she’ll punch you in the arm. Pussy dampening commences.


#5. You’re talking to a woman and there’s an uncomfortably long lull in the conversation.
Stare into her left pupil while saying nothing. Instant sexual tension.


#6. You approach a woman, or a group of women, and they attempt to mock or belittle you.
They’re nervous around you because you’re the alpha male in the environment. (As demonstrated by the fact that you approached.)
They feel uncomfortable in your presence because you’re high value, and so they’re trying to maintain frame by making nervous jokes.
Smile, nod, agree, and keep talking to them AS IF they were being perfectly nice to you. If you act like they’re being civil, eventually their frame will buckle to yours and they actually WILL begin to act civil.
That’s the nature of having a stronger frame: you create reality. Other people adjust themselves to it.





1. Women value you because you have a STRONGER FRAME than them. That’s all.
2. To figure out if you’ve got a strong frame, women test you. These tests come in the form of indifference, bitchiness, aloofness, personal insults, etc.
3. You don’t have to do much to pass these tests. You just have to ENDURE them, keep talking to her, teasing her a little and being normal. Over time, her frame will buckle and she’ll become aroused by you because she sees you have a strong frame that can’t be pushed around.
4. Attraction is a passive, not an active process. You attract hot girls by outframing them. You outframe them by enduring their tests without it breaking your frame. Eventually they “buckle” to you and become wet, laugh at your jokes, ask you what you’re doing later, etc. Then you can take her hand and lead her to the sex location and she’ll be compliant.
5. The hotter the woman, the harsher will be her tests. Paradoxically, this can actually make hotter women easier to attract, because if you can endure her tests you stand out massively from other guys. Compare to an average girl: her tests won’t be as hard, so you have to pass more of them and spend more time with her before she can see you’re strong



If you’ve found this guide helpful, you might like my blog. Start with my most popular post: The Ultimate Guide To "Same Day Sex"

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (46 children)

2. Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame than a handsome guy with a weak one

For those stuck in the rut of, "I'll start approaching women after I do xyz self-improvement", this one is for you. I'm guilty of it as well.

Go approach today, don't wait. Still keep going to the gym and try to lose that gut or undo being skinny fat, but you absolutely have got to put yourself out there as you are today and take action!

[–]hetakesit 258 points258 points [recovered]

One thing to expand on slightly - enjoying the tests. The tests mean she's already into you. She's just trying to figure out if you're the real thing.

If she's not throwing shit your way then you might as well not even exist.

[–][deleted] 153 points154 points  (23 children)

tests=investment. you wouldn't invest in something you find valueless.

[–]185poundsofhatredWIP 66 points67 points  (21 children)

When you approach a chick and she just glares at you disgusted before walking away, there's no real investment on her side, yet it's supposedly just a test.

It's either not about investnent or the post is a bit off.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 81 points82 points  (19 children)

Active tests / "shit tests" = investment.

Passive tests (like the girl giving you a weird look) are not about investment. It's the girl feeling anxious and socially uncomfortable and not knowing how to act. When you remain calm and don't react to her negative reaction, she often becomes more attracted to you as a result.

Many of the hottest girls I've been with gave me a disgusted look initially, but when I saw them later and re-approached they reacted well. Mere exposure effect plays a role. The more familiar we become with a stimulus, the more we like it.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 140 points141 points  (10 children)

Many of the hottest girls I've been with gave me a disgusted look initially, but when I saw them later and re-approached they reacted well.

There's a joke that goes like this: Women have powerful emotions, but they don't control them very well. So to get a woman to love you, you have to get her to love you, hate you, or feel really sorry for you. Then she will think, "I'm thinking about this guy all the time. I must love him."

The though itself is not red pill, but it does capture something which is the worst thing you can inspire in a woman is apathy.

[–]RedPillFusion 32 points33 points  (5 children)

It might not be red pill, but running hate fuck game is really easy, efficient, and fun. This is an especially useful approach for self-aware anger phasers that might like to channel some of that piss and vinegar into something productive.

[–]mnicsy 19 points20 points  (3 children)

How do you know they are literally not interested if running away and dirty looks are "tests"?

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 39 points40 points  (2 children)

Let me put it this way.

You approach a girl and she gives you a dirty look. You approach her later that night again, and 2 hours later you're fucking on her couch.

Now imagine that situations has happened to you nearly a dozen times.

That's been my experience. Caused me to change my perspective on shit. Now I simply can't go back to looking at in in the conventional way, because it no longer adequately explains my own experiences.

[–]slay_it_forward 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Mike Haines, aka the only guy in the universe that fucks women that give him purely IODs with zero IOIs. LOL

[–]slay_it_forward 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You ever think a girl just might not be into you? Jesus the hamster is strong with you.

[–]xddm2653 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Think about it this way: Men never give "nasty looks" or glares, we simply don't react. Giving a nasty look is actually a conscious reaction, the girl knows she's doing it ("and he kept staring at me so I gave him this look like"), but you can override her frame and later she'll remember a more positive version ("I was confused that's why I looked at you that way!").

[–]CRAIBaby 23 points24 points  (4 children)

See, that's the thing I cant agree with. If youre a god tier hot male model, youre not getting thrown shit at. So no, the tests don't mean shes already into you.

Though it is true that owning the tests increases attraction

[–]RobotAntidote 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Beeing attractive is just playing the game on an easier difficulty however the game mechanics are the same.

[–]p3n1x 15 points16 points  (1 child)

If youre a god tier hot male model, youre not getting thrown shit at

This isn't entirely true. I have met many women who have shut down the "hot guy" because of his mouth.

[–]Sweedie 116 points117 points  (3 children)

TRP logic seems to be:

Bitch gives positive response = SHE'S INTO YOU!!

Bitch gives negative response = SHE'S INTO YOU!!

Bitch files a restraining order and reports you for sexual harassment = SHIT TEST ALERT, GUYZ!!

[–]slay_it_forward 24 points25 points  (2 children)

Yeah I know this post was ridiculous. Essentially what he's saying is that IODs are all shit tests. Wrong. Big difference between a shit test and an IOD. Shit tests are accompanied with IOIs. IODs are not.

This guy is an idiot and going against all game advice accrued over the past 15 years.

[–]Sweedie 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's probably good for the ego though. ;)

[–]CRAIBaby 102 points103 points  (16 children)

Can we get the likes of /u/Rollo-Tomassi /u/GayLubeOil /u/Archwinger and/or /u/IllimitableMan to state their opinions on this post?

I can't put my mind around whether this post states the truth or whether it just represents what most of us, especially newcomers, would like to believe and really just represents an extremely ignorant and overly simplified view on things...

Of course it sounds great and easy to believe that frame is essentially the only thing that matters and every act we considered a rejection previously is now redefined as a shit-test. But really I feel like behaving that way might just make us look like autistic socially inept retards.

[–]Rhythmic 58 points59 points  (6 children)

This is how you become attractive - for real.

I can't put my mind around whether this post states the truth or whether it just represents what most of us, especially newcomers, would like to believe and really just represents an extremely ignorant and overly simplified view on things...

Here's the technicality of how this works:

When faced with the appearance of a 'rejection,' you either 'know for sure' that you're being 'rejected,' or 'know for sure' ... whatever your belief is. Depending on what you believe (AKA 'know for sure'), you'll respond in a certain way. We're talking about subtle shifts in you body language, vocal tone, facial microexpressions and the like. For the most part, the woman isn't consciously aware of these subtleties, but she does get a powerful gut-level reaction from them.

You don't even have to approach for this mechanism to kick in. The moment you sense a woman in your vicinity, based on your beliefs, you either reject yourself or feel awesome. You body responds accordingly. The woman responds to your body's response.

Of course it sounds great and easy

Don't confuse 'simple' with 'easy.' Turning you body's response around takes work.

To make an analogy, if you play an instrument, you don't practice your scales in front of a huge crowd. Instead, you practice scales in the privacy of your dojo. That's what monk mode is about. Then you go out and practice not giving a fuck about screwing up in front of the crowd. These are two very different kinds of practice, and both are important.

To complicate things, people (including women) are horrified at the prospect of 'being fooled by a fake.' That's why you'll be getting the harshest tests while working at turning yourself around. There's an uncanny abyss you'll have to cross.

Use tests to practice regaining your balance. Each time a woman gives you the appearance of a 'rejection,' this is a weight for you to lift, strengthening your frame in the process. Each time you lose your frame is an opportunity to re-gain it. Each time you fall is an opportunity to practice getting back up.

Staying rock-solid in the face of challenge makes you attractive.

Caveat: Just like men, women are humans, and all humans have some (limited) capacity for self-control. There are women in committed relationships who do want to stay loyal to their partners. This conscious choice does not turn off biology - just like men in committed relationships are still attracted to boobs. Expecting this to be otherwise is a reality disconnect.

AWALT = biology. AMALT = biology too.

That's why as you get more attractive, you can expect loyal women to start avoiding you: because they are actively resisting the temptation you've become. This is something I'm dealing with right now. It's a bit of a bummer.

As you gain security about you own attractiveness, you realize how much power you have to screw up the lives of the people around you, while at the same time you lose the need for 'proof' that you are attractive. Respecting other people's arrangements becomes the self-evident way to go.

When you really get this, it will become clear to you that you can't ever 'fake' anything. It's all about becoming attractive - for real.

Edit: Caveat 2: This should be self-evident, but if you are reeking of insecurity, this will turn women off. If you keep pushing you can get yourself into trouble. There may be some serious stuff you need to clear up before going full out. Monk mode.

Edit 2: uncanny

[–]CRAIBaby 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Cheers for the response. I do agree with it in essence and I will be paying attention to these aspects in the next couple of days to raise my awareness.

One thing I'm a bit confused about though: what about really good-looking guys? If shit-testing to the extent that OP mentioned was the standard to sense a partners viability for women, then why are those not getting the same amount of shit as worse looking guys? How does the above relate to them?

If I understand correctly: when women give you shit upon approaching, it still is an indicator of disinterest (which is why extremely good looking blokes don't have this as much), but overcoming these hurdles makes you more attractive?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Good looking guys don't receive as much shit, because the average girl expects them to hold themselves in higher regard and therefore have frame which represents that higher regard. Generally, if a guy grew up always being good looking, he'll never have a need for this subreddit. If his looks came later in life, his frame has to catch up to the way people treat him.

[–]freeupboats4every1 10 points10 points [recovered]

Nope, it's clown shit from a dude who has oneities and still overthinks everything.

Well, the story has an addendum. That woman is now my girlfriend. Has been for three years. She’ll probably be the mother of my children.

A rejection is a rejection. Don't take it any other way. If a girl recoils from your approach, you did something wrong. It doesn't necessarily mean it can't be salvaged and you certainly shouldn't cry if you fail, but this fake "IDGAF" bullshit is transparent as hell especially when you're the type who writes long posts about how to maintain frame so you can net some dumb chick. Not adapting based on others' responses is the definition of social ineptness. Go ahead, take risks, but god damn don't just turn off your brain.

[–]tiptopalphagod 15 points16 points  (2 children)

You're a noob or beta. Not everyone is ALWAYS in the mood to be hit on or approached. Life isn't some Disney movie where you're the prince and she's the princess you fucking moron. Nobody expects someone named 'upboats' to have ANY game at all though. Beta4life.

[–]NiteCyper 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Uh, I see a lot of ad hominem but not much substance. I'll summarize the meat.

Rejection is because they're not in the mood.

  • When one is not in the mood but being hit on, one does not recoil.
  • If you're not putting them in the mood, "you did something wrong", fundamental attribution error aside.
  • Taking the blame is the most productive move, rather than thinking, "Oh, I was rejected because they're not in the mood, not because I deserve rejection." That's u/freeupboats4every1's point.

I'm making some strong points. I seek counterpoints.

[–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang 15 points16 points  (1 child)

The post states the truth.

Many commenters are unfortunately stuck in their feminine-primary world view, so they're trying to make things easier for women, protect the poor innocent women from awkwards, snarking away with the self-conscious "but isn't that rapey" jokes etc. etc. This is the behaviour of dogs who've been beaten since they were puppies, so now they habitually imagine nasty sticks everywhere coming at them, and whine anxiously amongst themselves.

Why would I make anything easier for a woman? Especially rejecting me. Why would you care what she wants to happen, in the first place? It's the good old blue pill brainwashing, robbing you of your natural masculine qualities, as usual. Think about that for a moment, then you can re-read the brilliant post OP contributed with a clearer head.

Cupid's arrows always strike women's hearts against their will, without asking their permission first. Think of these tactics as positioning yourself so the buttnaked curlyhaired bastard can take better aim, then staying there so he can keep on shooting.

OP was explaining the essence of rock solid masculine frame. That means, a mental frame that is focused on YOU, not on her. Notice how at no point does OP apologize for anything or pepper any "but always make sure she is comfortable, don't be an autistic social retard" disclaimers. That's very telling! It's like you're seeing Neo flex in the Matrix. Of course it makes no fucking sense, how is this even possible.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbalalasaurus 13 points14 points  (0 children)

It does.

But what's wrong with that?

Never underestimate what can be brought about by a change of perspective. In fact that's exactly what TRP is about.

To use the Matrix analogy, Neo becomes able to stop bullets simply because he believes he can.

[–]BeardThatsFeared 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Make-believe stuff, I stopped reading less than halfway. A 9 has no reason to go for a 4-5 guy when she could have an 8-9 guy. I'm actually worried about OP getting his arse kicked :D

[–]TheChosen1Xod 195 points196 points  (142 children)

Very good and insightful post. Two questions though:

What does a real rejection look like? The post seems to suggest that most all rejections are a test.

And with the boyfriend excuse, is it best to just abandon set after that or keep trying? How can you tell if it's true or not while not wasting time?

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 95 points96 points  (4 children)

Real rejection is them either telling you to fuck off or them walking away. Sometimes both. That being said, seeing either one is exceedingly rare and even when you do it often has less to do with anything you did and says more about their own situation.

Anything else can generally be treated as ambivalence at worst and them waiting for you to make a move at best.

edit: and keep in mind that if you get rejected, they're not rejecting you as a person. They don't even know you. All they're doing is rejecting your approach methodology or the logistics of their situation which may have no thing to do with you. Could very well just be she's there to meet up with Chad she's been looking forward to all week because he keeps flaking and she's afraid you'll cock block her. Stuff like that. Or she's married and her husband beats her if she talks to other guys, so you're talking to her will get her smacked around later if the husband finds out. Point being, do not take any of this shit personally.

Being rejected isn't her rejecting who you are as a person, but the situation at hand. Sure, she might just not like what she sees, but an iron-clad frame and rock solid game can overcome those personal preferences in many cases because women get turned on by more than just hard abs and height, which is the ultimate point of this thread.

[–]fritzthekids 168 points169 points  (23 children)

Rejection is her leaving and not coming back.

[–]___Jamie___ 341 points342 points  (5 children)

Nah that's a test too. She wants to see if you have the balls to break into her appartment at night :))

[–]slay_it_forward 90 points91 points  (4 children)

Then when you break into her room and she resists your advances it's a test to see if you're man enough to rape her. After the rape you win.

[–]___Jamie___ 80 points81 points  (1 child)

Most people stop there. Most people are wrong! That's the final test. She wants to know that you know that most women(people really) will stab you in the back given the chance. She will most likely call the police on you after you leave. You pass the test by murdering her and hiding her body in a nearby river. Every night she will appear to you in your dreams, giving you a sort of spiritual hug that emphasises adoration for the only real man she ever knew- the man who passed all the tests :)

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is actually how many females in the animal kingdom act. They deliberately throw themselves in a pile of males, after the most dominant male bashes through them, he goes for the female, then the female runs all over the place and attempts to fight him off. After forcing himself on her and a few thrusts, she calms down and lets him finish. "If you could force it, it was yours all along" is the mantra. How much this applies to human females, I'm not sure.

[–]ManliestManAmongMen 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Eventually, she starts responding. Then she starts laughing. And then we have sex.

When i read that, all i could think of was "So Bro.. You basically drugged her, then she started responding to the drugs and laughing uncontrollably till she passed out and you had sex with her while she was unconscious"

[–]Porridgebrah 18 points18 points [recovered]

Rejection is her calling 911.

[–]cosine88 92 points93 points  (2 children)

If you fight off the police and approach her a third time, are you finally alpha?

[–]justameremortal 43 points44 points  (6 children)

If you read the post he points out that could be the chick getting nervous.

Honestly I've brought so much into shit tests that I couldn't imagine a hot chick getting nervous until now. Jesus

[–]cuntweiner 94 points95 points  (5 children)

The real answer is women don't reject. They throw shade until you reject yourself. Some guys reject themselves before even approaching, some guys never give up, which leads to either banging the girl or a restraining order (edit: or relegation to beta orbiter).

[–]justameremortal 54 points55 points  (3 children)

Well if she runs away yelling multiple times she probably is not interested hoss

[–]cuntweiner 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Yea surely, but that kinda falls under restraining order. If a girl has to raise her voice and physically flee you to the point of making a scene, she is trying to get others involved to separate you. Most guys will reject themselves before this point though, and it's really only an issue with creepy guys that make women feel threatened.

[–]justameremortal 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yeah I was exaggerating. I'd stop after she leaves twice

[–]trp_dude 49 points50 points  (0 children)

She smiles, and tells you warmly, "I'm sorry, you look like a nice guy but I'm afraid I have a boyfriend."

That's a true rejection, my friend, when she lets you down gently.

[–]Lopelipo 42 points42 points [recovered]

How about "you're not attractive, looks like you have a small dick and are boring in bed " then goes away?

[–]RPM4 82 points83 points  (22 children)

Try again later in the night. Act as if that didn't happen.

[–]185poundsofhatredWIP 157 points157 points [recovered]

On a second thought, behaving like the OP advises might make you come off kinda autistic.

[–]Epicureanist 17 points17 points [recovered]

the potential benefits are amazing though.

[–]185poundsofhatredWIP 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Have you ever been in that kind of a situation?

[–]Epicureanist 16 points16 points [recovered]

Everyone's got to change the OP to suit their situation. Been in what kind of situation? I'm sure many of the women I've approached have thought I had a few screws lose or something.

I'm a short bald man. My success really comes from consistency and confidence. I'm at the point where I view life as a game and I genuinely believe anything can happen.

I've essentially mentally deluded. If a girl says "I have a boyfriend or I'm not dating right now," I'll still assume she's interested and is just testing me. Am I wrong? It (truth) doesn't matter. What matters to me are the effects of this kind of "delusional" mindset.

I approach any and every kind of women and I'm never put off by rejection.

However your results may vary. I live in a large city, I don't go into bars or clubs, and I just day game. I would not run this type of game in the suburbs or in a small town.

the potential benefits

By potential benefits I meant losing AA.

[–]BreathOfDick 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Irrational self confidence. 'Too dumb to fail' as RSD says.

[–]RedDeadCred 48 points49 points  (0 children)

If she brings up sex it means she's thinking about it. That statement is a green light.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 37 points38 points  (49 children)

If she says something like that and you are truly non-reactive (calm gaze and continuing to talk to her normally), she'll become more attracted to you than if she'd never said anything bad at all. Meditation helps with cultivating non-reactivity.

[–]candyman420 134 points135 points  (47 children)

You know, it actually is reasonable to assume that not all women want to be picked up at all times. Your post is good, but leaves no accounting for the fact that some people just want to be left alone.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 136 points137 points  (45 children)

No one "wants" to be sold something by a door to door salesman, yet billions of dollars of goods are sold by door to door salesmen every year.

Use common sense. Don't harass women or be aggressive.

[–]candyman420 55 points56 points  (40 children)

Unless you're the type of person that slams the door without a word.

Give me a break. Not everyone is the same.

[–]TryHardDaily 80 points81 points  (34 children)

That isn't the point of this post, the point is that you are the salesman, going out and making a shitload of money. You really think that you are going to remember that douchebag at 617 Saints Street who slammed the door on you? No, because Steve down the block just spent $1200 on a vacuum.

[–]Banincoming 22 points23 points  (2 children)

So, in this analogy, did Steve suck his dick like a pro?

[–]el_Technico 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Don't be glib buddy, we're all friends here.

[–]candyman420 12 points13 points  (30 children)

Yes yes, the point of the post is persistence, that is obvious.

But it should be acknowledged that no amount of persistence is going to work on a person that doesn't want to be sold.

[–]TryHardDaily 9 points10 points  (4 children)

That is only part of the way true though. Sure, there will be times where a broad is totally turned off, but there are also times where a chick that was 100% turned off can be turned around simply by your "IDGAF what you think or say I am going to have a good time" attitude and conversation. There was a post a little while ago about being self amusing, and if you are there is a good chance that you can get any dumb hoe you want.

[–]myInnerMars 9 points10 points  (1 child)

what if I'm empathetic to their not wanting to be picked up for whatever reason and just don't want to be a dick? The post puts you in a situation that forces the woman to leave where she is or continue being harassed. I can't get behind that. I don't want to be that person.

you can be open to conversation, approach woman, not give a shit if they say no, not lose frame, still get numbers, and not sacrifice the part of you that cares about not being a dick.

in my case, it's not about identity. it would cause me actual pain to make someone feel like they had to run away from me in order to reject me. 2 chances. "don't be shy, im a great time" 2 no's is all I'm willing. I understand this means I miss out on pussy. peace of mind is worth much more.

[–]candyman420 14 points15 points  (1 child)

it's not about being turned off at all, that's what i'm saying. maybe her father died and she's out for a walk, and being seduced is the furthest thing from her mind. I could certainly understand this kind of burden they face from pushy people, at times.

[–]CQC3 12 points13 points  (21 children)

I get what you're saying, but it's up to you to fill in the blanks in terms of nuance and context. Nobody has time to delineate every single contingency. Use your head.

I do agree, not everyone can be sold. Some people WILL not be sold for reasons outside of your control. The most important point OP is making is that the MARGIN to which people are actually available to you is FAR greater than what most men believe.

Persistency is important because much like consumer oriented business, people don't really know what they want until you give it to them. People were probably skeptical about smart phones until somebody made one in the right way that MADE people want them. Same deal with MP3 players.

If there's a 100 girls, and most guys will assume say...30-40 are completely unavailable. But OP's posts suggests that in reality, it is more like only 1-5 are truly unavailable. Obviously those numbers are bullshit.

Context is most important, your examples don't hold up to gaming girls in social environments. The amount of persistence you use on a girl in a cafe or in the park is not the same as what you would use in the bar/club scene. They wouldn't be there if they weren't open to being gamed. You don't show up to the court and complain that some guys keep asking you to play a pick up game.

[–]whodeannny 26 points27 points  (0 children)

My response to 'I have a boyfriend' is 'don't worry, I'm not the jealous type'.

[–]thewritingtexan 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Or firmly and strongly telling you "no" or the countless other things she could say which infer she doesnt want to talk to you.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 70 points71 points  (24 children)

"What does a real rejection look like?"

No one can reject anyone. The reality of the world is that we're atoms and particles colliding with each other in empty space. Rejection is a mental concept which you're imposing onto that. Eliminate any mental concept that doesn't serve you. Delusional? Maybe, but it's worked out well for me.

"The boyfriend excuse, is it best to just abandon set after that or keep trying?"

Not intending to spam the comments here but I coincidentally just wrote a post on that which you can check out: http://insurgentmedia.tv/what-to-say-if-she-tells-you-she-has-a-boyfriend/

Bottom line: Don't take it seriously. Girls without boyfriends will say IHABF as a test. Girls with boyfriends will often hook up with you anyway due to natural selection positively selecting for women who are successful at paternity fraud. Not saying that you SHOULD fuck girls with boyfriends -- just that it's possible.

[–]1ozaku7 28 points29 points  (3 children)

That IHABF is not a test, but a filter to seperate the boys from the men. A man knows that talking to a girl isn't sexual, and her having a BF or not is irrelevant. I usually laugh the IHABF test off with "My buddy over there has a BF too, so what's your name?"

[–]zxcsd 71 points72 points  (2 children)

I would lay off the physics because your not doing yourself any favors with your ignorance.

I think you're crossing a line to a dangerous frame of mind, people have free will, moods and emotions, it's not all about you and not everyone wants to get it on all the time.

And even if you could maybe change their mind, it's still not ok to harass 9 to get the 1.

[–]189203973 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Holy fuck some actual sanity in this thread. Thank you.

[–]iLLprincipLeS 4 points4 points [recovered]

It's true, there is no such thing as a rejection, there is no thing as a NO.

Excellent post OP. First points are basics, but the last ones are GOLD, something to be read each week. What I would add to it are a few little Last Minute Resistance points in case the bitch will hamster it before putting your cock in her mouth. It happens sometimes with uglier girls than 9&10s but it's something worth knowing just in case.

In the end, watch what she does, not what she says. AWALT.

[–]TheMrYourMother 37 points38 points  (11 children)

Are you autistic? There's no such thing as no? Really? If someone tells you no and you say "eh, they really mean yes" you're gonna end up in jail. If you approach a girl and kiss her and she says "no", and you keep going you're fucked.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I... I don't think just saying "I'll get you pretnant" will work as well as you wrote.. seriously smells like bullshit to me

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Read the Selfish Gene. Women have an instinctive urge to be impregnated. It's not something I like to play with much because by putting the idea in her head you're almost inviting her to get herself pregnant with you. But it is powerful. Tell a girl you're going to shoot a load into her and put a baby in her belly during sex -- feel how wet she instantly gets. It's instinctual.

[–]kimposibl 9 points9 points [recovered]

This might sound crazy but, I'm pretty sure "No" means rejection.

[–]PenisPeddler 137 points138 points  (4 children)

Stare into her left pupil while saying nothing. Instant sexual tension.

Lol this sub is a fucking trip.

[–]angryguy4444 19 points20 points  (0 children)

It's sexuel tension if she holds your stare.

If you want an even more effective technique do this : talk, and then start talking more slowly, in a deeper voice, very gradually, until you make pauses between words. And look in her eyes when you do so. THIS creates sexual tension

[–]stawek 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Nah, it's just eye contact. Looking into one eye just makes it more intense.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Try focusing in one pupil while chatting to a girl. Thank me later.

[–]poolords 43 points44 points  (3 children)

This is post is pissing off a bunch of angry betas at the blue pill as well as a few dudes in the anger phase here, which must mean it's a good post. The greatest truth always hurts, so of course you've got a bunch of faggots who don't want to accept it. Keep doing what you're doing man.

[–]slay_it_forward 8 points9 points  (1 child)

No it's epic hamstering. Frame matters, but so does your looks, your voice, your charisma, whether she had that deep instinctual feeling your dna matches well with her. It all matters and makes up the overall package.

I think Sluthate LMS omegas are idiots but looks matter and does your status. Ask Beiber how many shit tests he gets. None. He shit tests them.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (4 children)

"5. The hotter the woman, the harsher will be her tests. Paradoxically, this can actually make hotter women easier to attract, because if you can endure her tests you stand out massively from other guys. Compare to an average girl: her tests won’t be as hard, so you have to pass more of them and spend more time with her before she can see you’re strong"

Reading through the OP post again, I wonder how many of you guys are overthinking everything because of these PUA guys.

The thing about attractive women, is they're just women. They act like other women do, mostly, and there's not a whole lot different in how they behave when they like you, vs average looking women. A lot of average women get hit on a lot, and with social media and stuff, they basically have inflated ideas on what their SMV probably is. Its been my experience that a lot of very attractive women slightly underestimate themselves, so they behave much the same as your average girl.

This is why I think a lot of this stuff is bullshit, just made up by guys who want to prey on the weak. Snake Oil, if you will.

I don't particularly respect Snake Oil salesmen. I'm here because I want to help the younger guys in particular, perhaps, since I think someone should. No one else is looking after them. After being lied to, and blue pilled, they come in here looking for help, and I want them to get that help. This is why posts like this actually make me a little angry.

Looks at some of these lies objectively, guys. We're talking frame, hold your damn frame and look at some of these claims honestly. He's telling "ugly" guys that they're being rejected because they're "Too high value." Does that sound like a legit thing?

Lets get back to reality here. If you're a 5 and you hit on a 9, she's going to make a face at you and move on with her day, and it has nothing to do with you being too high value. Don't try to neg her, you're a goddamn 5, so fix that.

I've approached women when I was a 130 pound skinny kid, and after working to improve my own SMV for years. I know what it feels like to try to hit on women without any real SMV, and what it's like when you are legitimately attractive. When I say "Drop the delusions, and get to work", I am saying so from a place of love, my friends. I have no incentive to lead you astray, I don't need you to come to my blog and buy any of my shit. I say this from a place where I'm passing on knowledge to a little brother, to pass on things I've learned in life, and to bring more value on those experiences.

Ignore these "Frame" posts. I think they're made by liars who want to take advantage of you. Instead improve upon yourself. Work on doing things you like doing in life, and enjoy your stay. There might not be anything waiting for you after this, after all. Women are people, not absurdly different from yourself in a lot of ways. Try to understand that there's not a lot that's actually about you, people just want what's best for them. If you improve yourself and you get to a place where you have very real value, you're going to find your confidence. You will notice that others want to be around you, both men and women, if you have real value. You won't have to go out there and put on a false face, and make believe that you are good enough. You'll just BE good enough. Understand?

Part of actually being the Warlord, vs playing make believe, is you will have earned Frame, and not irrational Frame. I don't know if that's a thing we discuss here.

Hypothetical situation. A chihuahua vs Pit Bull. The chihuahua has superdog "Frame" and really believes in himself. The Pit Bull is a Pit Bull.

You know the answer guys. Come on. DO NOT DRINK THE COOL-AIDE.

[–]johnnielittleshoes 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I would say that chihuahuas CAN scare off pitbulls, solely based on their self image. Or cats vs. pitbulls. Or parakeets.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Can, sure. But 9 times out of ten, that'd be a dead chihuahua. You know the point I'm making here, stop being stupid.

[–]Dreamer994 143 points143 points [recovered]

This shit works, I banged my 11/10 sister. I grabbed her by knee in normal conversation and said "I want to fuck you right now". She replied "but we are family". I said to myself "haha, its shit test" I smiled, nodded and agreed and then fucked her right in the pussy. Thanks man :)

[–]gjs628 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I do think it's important to mention that while the advice is "Every woman wants to fuck your ugly ass, she just doesn't know it yet" is great to psych someone up to trying to pull for the first time, in reality, the truth is that some women just aren't attracted to you. Some really do have boyfriends and won't fuck you because you're nowhere near their boyfriends in SMV. Sometimes it just isn't meant to happen. And that's okay. You wouldn't want to waste your time with a girl who has nothing in common with you and who you will hate by the end of the week. Save your energy for the women you do "connect" with.

Obviously, it can take some time to establish that connection, so don't just assume after she ignores you once that she's Satan, but be on the lookout not for signs that she's not interested in you, but for signs that make you disinterested in her.

Case in point: I was younger, and my girlfriend was "the one". I was alone with a female friend of mine who was a literal 9/10 and for some weird reason was SO into me (it hadn't happened before) but because I was so naive, I kept rejecting her advances... while my girlfriend at the time was off fucking another guy across the road.

Next instance: I was really into a girl who kept playfully rejecting me. She ended up dating some douche at work, BUT, what I saw of their relationship made me realise I was the lucky one and dodged a bullet - she just wasn't the kind of girl I'd have gotten along with after sex.

Point being: sometimes, opportunities slap you in the face and you're too busy ignoring them, and other times something you think is an opportunity turns out to be a bullet with your name on it. Learn to gauge each situation as it developes before assuming it's one or the other.

And yes, I realllllly regret not fucking that 9/10. But that was 10 years ago in my beta teens. I've made up for it since.

[–]185poundsofhatredWIP 58 points59 points  (18 children)

Very good writing, however I can't help but feel that it's bullshit. If you didn't have to get fit and well groomed to bang models, most guys here wouldn't even lift.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 24 points25 points  (9 children)

Thanks for reading.

It helps to lift weights and maintain your appearance, and I do, but I've just seen too many counterexamples in my life to subscribe to the belief system that it's always necessary without exception.

There's a deeper level to reality than that which is visible. And in male-to-woman dynamics, that deeper level is the power of FRAME.

[–]kankouillotte 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yep, having a fat friend (>130 kg) who regularly scores hot girls out of the blue really opened my eyes.

[–]Mike66219 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This. Is frame extremely important? Of course. But maybe the reason she's recoiling from your cold approach is your 5'5", 240lbs of blubber, shitily dressed, unshowered, neckbearded self? If you have reasonably high SMV, her attitude may be a test. But if you're just this side of a retarded troll, her attitude can likely be taken at face value.

[–]thatnorwegiantroll 143 points144 points  (14 children)

One of the best posts I've ever read on this site. Clear, concise, and simple explanations for near every situation that I can recount with hot women. Thumbs up!

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 54 points55 points  (10 children)

Wow thanks man, that means a lot.

[–]blue_dover 16 points16 points [recovered]

You never finished the story of how you got together with your model girlfriend :OO Don't leave us hanging man

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 27 points28 points  (6 children)

Haha good point. Long story short I added her on FB a couple months later, we got to talking, I sent her some light flirty banter, asked her to come get a drink with me, she flaked on me, I asked her again and she met me. We hooked up that night and have been together ever since

[–]BreathOfDick 12 points13 points  (2 children)

How many times have you had success after a flake? If that's common as well might be worth a post on its own

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 95 points96 points  (2 children)

Meh. I liked this better when it was called Uncle Vasya’s Guide On Dating Models but then again, I'm biased. /grin

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 45 points46 points  (0 children)

I'm gonna be honest with you, that's pretty dope. "Possession of the Ass is 9/10th of the Law." I love it

[–]CRAIBaby 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Vasiliy, much respect to your contributions.

Could you checkout my comment above and tell me what you think?

[–]Imarobot2 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Great post but one question. Why persist so much with one woman who puts on such a strong front? Why not just cut your loss (time and opportunity) and find another girl who might be more interested?

[–]no_face 16 points17 points  (1 child)


  1. Strong Frame attracts
  2. You're Good enough
  3. Dont break on tests

[–]i-am-the-meme-now 124 points125 points  (10 children)

"Physiologically, girls can’t even become wet for a guy who has a weaker frame than they do. It’s literally impossible."

That's some delusional shit right there.

[–]no_face 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Yes, this bit is traveling into the religious territory, but the rest of the post is good

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points [recovered]

Why are most of the people dismissing this post not providing evidence or any theories of their own?

[–]i-am-the-meme-now 65 points66 points  (6 children)

I didn't make the claim. OP did, he showed no evidence and also "Physiologically, girls can’t even become wet for a guy who has a weaker frame than they do. It’s literally impossible." <-- That's fucking retarded. and my theory is women are fucking people you mongaloid. They are all different, no group of people fall so perfectly into a mold that you can have rules that will "work" everytime you talk to any of it's members. If you people didn't try to just get into the pants of every attractive woman you meet your life wouldn't suck so bad, and you could actually have meaningful relationships with people. I mean, god damn is it so hard to realize that treating women like people is the right thing to do??

[–]Dittestark 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Thank you for being one of the few guys in this sub, who doesn't sound like a retard. The biggest turn on for me isn't looks or "frame" or what ever, but just being genuinely good at some ting or interested in something. I don't really care if it's football, chess, drums or the anatomy of a river dolphin. I just find it really attractive when someone tells me about something they're really passionate about. If it's not themselves, that is.

Source: am girl, former model.

[–]1htbf 8 points9 points  (0 children)

What is a former model doing on this sub?

[–]graffix13 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Some good points, especially #29 and #30, which I feel don't get talked about a lot. Here at TRP, 'YOU' being the prize is always preached and that is 100% true. Deep down, women know this too....you, as the man, are the prize. Almost every woman on this planet has low self esteem, regardless of their looks. This is a hard concept for us men to grasp sometimes because we think "how can this beautiful woman have such a negative view of herself? Just doesn't make sense." But there we go again...thinking logically.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I totally agree. I plan to write a lot more on those points in future.

[–]AmazingMalice 32 points33 points  (2 children)

This is brilliant, it is the epitome of taking women off of a pedestal. Approaching girls with the mindset of you yourself being the HVI (High Value Individual) is key to embodying a strong frame. I'm looking forward to future posts!

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Thanks man, yeah I plan on expanding on that concept a lot in future, because I only touched on it briefly in this post. Looking forward to posting more here in future!

[–]iamthedaymanahhah 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I asked a dude if he wanted to fuck and he said "no man I'm not gay" but ever since I read this post I understand that was only a test. I now fuck dudes on the regular. I pass all of their tests. I am the true alpha

[–]One_friendship_plz 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Don't let the confirmation bias kick in when you come to this subreddit guys.

If you are doing overwhelmingly well in at least 2 quality areas you can still get laid.

Having frame just happens to be the easiest things to accomplish.
In other words, being overwhelmingly rich and not insane could get you laid, regardless of if you're a beta or not.

There are women who openly call their boyfriends beta cowards, which makes me believe that a woman can fuck a man even if she thinks he's a beta, if you're doing overwhelmingly well in the other areas.

If she's broke as shit and is about to get evicted, then walks in MR moneybags, she's going to get wet.
It's just not the most optimal path.

You can get laid, it just won't be like the movies.
Being beta doesn't mean you'll die a virgin. It means you don't have the right to pick & choose who you want, what your type is, and how often you'll have sex.

[–]asa93 86 points87 points  (26 children)

Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame than a handsome guy with a weak one

sorry but this is simply not true. It depends on the situation and you cannot affirm such things.

[–]MisterOrigon 58 points59 points  (5 children)

I can. I have a friend who is 6'3, has a great face, and is naturally in great shape. Never hit the gym until a month ago, but has always been naturally muscular.

He's almost 19, and since he has no idea how to talk to girls, he hasn't ever kissed one.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of my female friends is infatuated with the guy, but once he starts talking to them...

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (1 child)

social awkwardness on a pretty girl can be cute, but on handsome guy its an instant turn off.

[–]Nattheking1 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Lol I'm 6'6 and 19 and am similar to that friend of yours. Only difference is I realized how bad I am with woman and now I'm on my way to fucking them.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 37 points38 points  (16 children)

You're in the jungle. You're a female. You have two choices:

(a) the leader of the tribe, who has authority and power over other men because he has charisma and personal magnetism. This man is "ugly"

(b) a young guy who looks like Justin Bieber but who has no authority, no charisma, and who is therefore low in the dominance hierarchy

Over history, women have chosen (a) more than they've chosen (b). That's why "ugly" men make up the vast majority of the male population, while "beautiful" men are rare.

[–]BreathOfDick 36 points37 points  (3 children)

Cmon man that last sentence is completely absurd. I agree with the rest, though.

[–]WalrusJockeyll 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Yeah, but we no longer live in the jungle... girls like hygiene and symmetry

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Read about evolutionary psychology. We're still wired for the ancestral environment.

[–]Duchenne4089 2 points3 points  (7 children)

Do women honestly consider Bieber attractive?

[–]MyFriendKnew 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Yea but funnily enough it has to do with him being charismatic and talented

[–]BestSC86 21 points22 points  (13 children)

Only addendum, I would add is that:

One man's 10 is another man's 6....I would add the frame that girls are girls irregardless of their being blessed by physical attractiveness.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 31 points32 points  (1 child)

Yeah for sure. Other thing I realized after being with a few "9s and 10s" is that EVER GIRL IS A 7 when she's in her natural state (no makeup, sweat pants, greasy hair, acne, glasses, etc). This applies even to the hottest of the hot.

[–]fromdario 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Ehh, you are overlooking a banging body, which is always banging if she keeps in shape, which most 9/10s do.

[–]nicetimeisback 19 points19 points [recovered]

Wow, this must be put in the sidebar, great article.

Thank you

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Thanks! That's a hell of a compliment for my first ever post on this sub

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 21 points22 points  (5 children)

I am ashamed to admit that this is exactly what I needed to read in this very moment.

Very comprehensive, on point, well written and

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Thanks mate, I appreciate you taking the time to comment.

[–][deleted] 49 points49 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]gowatchanimefgt 14 points15 points  (5 children)

When you say stare into her left eye, do you mean her left eye facing me or her actual left eye

[–]donkey_democrat 8 points9 points  (2 children)

That's not the point, it doesn't matter which eye. The point is so you focus on staring at her eyeball and not on the anxiety of eye contact.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Exactly. And I would further add: stare calmly into the blacks of her eyes. It creates a smoldering sexual vibe.

[–]Falkner1992 29 points29 points [recovered]

  1. Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame than a handsome guy with a weak one

Stopped reading after this.

[–]Conceited-Monkey 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I should have bailed at this point too. Went further into fantasy island as things continued. It is basically a summary of a lot of the RSD crap.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 11 points12 points  (8 children)

If women would rather fuck weak handsome men than dominant ugly ones, ugly men would have been bred out of existence by the remorseless logic of natural selection.

Instead, we see the opposite. "Ugly" men outnumber "beautiful" men by 100 to 1. This indicates that throughout our evolution, the female humans who chose to mate with men based on preferences which superseded facial symmetry out-survived those who cared about looks alone.

Maybe it turns out that in the jungle, having Ghenghis Khan as a husband is a lot more likely to keep you safe than shacking up with Justin Bieber. And maybe... just maybe... that's why there are more men alive today who look like Ghenghis Khan than who look like Justin Bieber.

But it's just a theory ;-)

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

While your OP had a lot of ways of thinking that were good for self esteem (or frame or whatever), like just being enough, this is BS imo.

Firstly, bad looks don't always come from parents. They are affected by age of conception, environment in the womb, environment up until puberty, and sometimes just freak mistakes of genetics.

Secondly, women act towards good looking men in exactly the same way as men act towards good looking women. Character, 'frame', wealth, status, etc all become secondary. Good looks make all of us 'weak at the knees', reason goes out of the window and instinct takes over. There are countless examples of this, either with people catfishing on tinder with a good looking profile acting like complete prats and still getting a number, or twattish, narcissistic youtubers taking their shirt off for 'a prank' and still getting adoring looks. Even in my own, and I suspect most people's experience, we all remember the ease in which good looking mates could simply ask and get with a minimum of effort. It sucks, but it's true.

[–]Falkner1992 31 points32 points  (5 children)

If women would rather fuck weak handsome men than dominant ugly ones, ugly men would have been bred out of existence by the remorseless logic of natural selection.

No, because in the past women needed men in their lives in order to survive. And even today, ugly women can still have sons, and they don't get bred out (the ugly women, not their sons).

Instead, we see the opposite. "Ugly" men outnumber "beautiful" men by 100 to 1.

A bit of an exaggeration imo, although it might interest you to know that 60% of all men who have ever lived throughout History DID NOT reproduce.

Maybe it turns out that in the jungle, having Ghenghis Khan as a husband is a lot more likely to keep you safe than shacking up with Justin Bieber. And maybe... just maybe... that's why there are more men alive today who look like Ghenghis Khan than who look like Justin Bieber.

Highlighted the important bit there. We don't live in the jungle anymore, in case you didn't notice.

[–]2virusofthemind 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Your limbic brain is still programmed to the challenges of the ancestral environment environment (the jungle) whether you like it or not.

As an example: phobias of snakes and spiders are extremely common in modern society yet less than a handful of people are killed by them in modern times. On the other side motor vehicles kill more than 10,000 times more people than their arachnid and reptilian rivals. How many people have you heard of with a phobia of cars?

The modern mind just hasn't caught up.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

How many people have you heard of with a phobia of cars?

Cars are useful though. A phobia of cars would be an evolutionary disadvantage, even though they're dangerous. Most people don't have a phobia of fire either, because it's more useful than it is dangerous.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (8 children)

I think a crucial element is missing from how to build this frame. You must have a reliable "pack" of comrades who will have your back when times get rough. I really think this is the essence of frame: justified belief in your own physical strength and ability, and belief that you belong to a team of men who you trust to have physical strength and ability.

If you don't have that, you can't really hold any frame.

You can't defy biology. If you're not strong, your mind will know it, and it will deliberately force you to defer to stronger men and act submissive to avoid conflicts.

Someone mentioned it recently in another post: the fear you experience in approaching a girl is not fear of the girl herself, but an instinctual fear of stronger men who will not like seeing you hitting on this girl because they see her as their girl. The only way to really overcome this fear is to get strong.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 6 points7 points  (7 children)

As for the "team of men", I dunno, I can see how that would help your frame but 99% of my friends are super bluepill and not into pickup so it's never really been a thing with me.

But yes, you are 100% right that you need to be STRONG. More specifically, you need high testosterone levels as well as strength. That is the biological basis of having a stronger frame.

[–]no_face 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I've read most of the posts here and have also authored some of the top ones and routinely answer questions PM'd to me.

I can say without reservation that this is probably the most usable and therefore valuable post ever on TRP and OP has written down my belief and experience word for word.

This also should help move TRP away from the "new way to approach" and "top 10 game tricks" style posts to "change yourself" type posts.

The only tidbit I would add is: The opposite of confidence is anxiety and if you are more relaxed than the girl, that will look like super-confidence to her.

[–]DumpsterBaby00 17 points18 points  (4 children)

I actually liked this a lot. It's very logical when you think about it. It's super easy for me to talk to any girl when i'm drunk but that doesn't happen when i'm sober unfortunately. Can you give us some examples of what to say to them when you/we approach them? Besides the ones you've already mentioned.. Like certain topics

[–]TheGillos 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It doesn't matter what you say. It's how you say it. Talk about a Burger King wrapper someone littered. Anything. Just do it with fun confidence.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks man.

A solid opener I saw recently on the seduction subreddit is "Are you as interesting as you look?"

That's good because it's challenging and flirtatious at the same time.

Personally, I tend to just walk up to the girl with relaxed dominant body language and good posture, make solid eye contact (as in: unwavering, pupil to pupil connection), then shake her hand and say "I'm Mike, who are you."

In terms of topics to talk about, I'll mainly alternate between a mixture of fluff talk and push/pull.

FLUFF TALK: This is standard boring "getting to know you" type conversation. What do you do, where do you go to college, etc. Friends in common, hobbies, interests. Finding commonalities.

PUSH/PULL: Challenge the girl by teasing her about something. Demonstrate sexual intent by complimenting her about something. Repeat. Push, pull. Hot, cold. Flirt, neg. Repeated endlessly. Girls never get bored of it.

Other than that, just wing it. What you say isn't all that important. Learn to "vibe" with people in a natural way -- letting the conversation spontaneously emerge, rather than needing to go in there with something prepared.

[–]Graceful_Ballsack 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The alcohol helps you relax. Be relaxed and buzzed!

[–]Melanjoly 9 points10 points  (2 children)

1) be attractive.

Not even banter, you aren't pulling a 10/10 with a face like Steve Buscemi.

[–]drty_pr 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Ill be Steve Buscemi has hit 10's

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Text game is a different animal. Personally I would focus on gaming her properly in real life. Women aren't evolved to choose mates on the basis of text conversations, so if a girl isn't standing directly in front of you there's about a zero percent chance of moving things forward.

Tease her in real life with push/pull, misinterpretation, negging, etc. When she's at an emotional high, lead her to come get a drink with you (after college or whatever). Venue change. Escalate. Pull.

"At what point does persistence become clinginess/neediness."

If you don't have a needy vibe, then never. The way this was once explained to me is as follows:

Imagine that you're at college studying engineering. Suddenly, you get a call from Jeff Bezos, asking you personally to come work for him at the highest levels at Amazon. You're floored. You freak out. You stutter down the phone that you'll have to think about it. Obviously, you want the job but don't want to appear desperate, and you're overwhelmed by how much responsibility you would have. He says that's fine. He proceeds to call you every few days over the coming weeks, asking if you've made your decision and continuing to highlight the ways he thinks the job will be a great fit for you.

Is Bezos being "needy" or "clingy"?

No. He clearly is the higher value person in the situation. But he's being PATIENTLY PERSISTENT with you, because he understands that such a great offer is totally unexpected and overwhelming for you, and that he needs to persist in letting you get comfortable with the idea.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 12 points13 points  (10 children)

Theres a girl im trying to plate from uni, and shes always giggly and happy around me, responds well, even texts, but everytime I try to set something up she becomes really flakey.

Most Likely Translation: "Please orbit me. I think you're a funny guy and I like all the attention you pay me, but kindly walk back into the Friendzone that you just tried to walk out of."

Secondary Possibility: She is now free to pursue a relationship, er, "plate-ship" with you.

Most Likely Outcome: "CRAIBaby, you're so sweet, but I'm just not ready for a relationship now, because I just broke up with my boyfriend" - and within the week, she will be paired up with some d-bag who...isn't you.

At what point does persistence become clinginess/neediness.

Depends on your level of Frame and Amused Mastery.

Fact is if a really handsome guy approaches a woman, this whole "shit-testing to the max" does not really apply, as they are more compliant. Whats your take on that?

Depends, actually. If she's in his league, then sure, she'll plow the road for him, but if he's too far above her, she will often reject him as a preemptive strike, because she realizes she's just a pump-n-dump. Most women "know" (subconsciously) how attractive a man her beauty can hold, whereas men will swing for the fences, because that's what we do.

[–]JDiculous 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Excellent post. Honestly I think this is the best guide in this genre I've ever read, at least in recent memory. The buttery slide analogy in your blog post was fantastic as well. Keep up the great work.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Typical pre-2014 era PUA bullshit; it's no surprise to me you mentioned you read and were influenced by RSD. So a strong frame is all it takes, huh? Listen, it's true the hottest women date all types. Sometimes they date hot male models. Sometimes they date low-life gangstas or drug dealers. Sometimes they date rich old men. But they're never going to date an average guy because of his "strong frame."

This is not what I see in real life. This is what exists in the theoretical bubble you've created in your mind an in attempt to boil pickup down to one easy thing. Let's deal in reality.

Looks-Height-Finances-Social Status. That's what women look for. You need to be perfect in one of those categories or above average in all of them to have a chance with the hottest women. Even the average women these days.

A strong frame... What a magic fucking wand this is, if only I had known!

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

"Let's deal in reality."

Ok, here's the reality. Our minds are wired in such a way that we will find confirming evidence everywhere to support what we already believe. This is called confirmation bias.

If you believe (like I once did), that women are ONLY attracted to looks-height-money-status, you'll see confirming evidence for that everywhere, while unconsciously blocking out any evidence that contradicts it. This is how normal brains work.

I have found that viewing attraction as if it is purely about frame gets me better results than viewing attraction as if it's purely about status.

Which one is true? I don't know. I don't care.

I only care about results.

And if one lens through which to view of the world gives me happiness and sex and pleasure, and the other one doesn't, then I'll choose to see reality through the first lens.

This post explains what worked for me. But you don't have to adopt my lens of viewing the world if you don't want to. It's a free country.

[–]mehdreamer 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame than a handsome guy with a weak one

I don't think so

[–]akakidude 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This blew my mind, quite literally.

[–]themiddlestclass 33 points33 points [recovered]

I just had to respond because this is so douchey. This reads like you've never spoken with a woman before. You are likely making this list because you want Internet idiots to think you're hot shit even though you and everyone else who says "sidebar this" will never get laid unless you date rape someone. You make it seem like women are just objects waiting for your tiny little dick. You're actually the worst kind of person.

[–]rocacu 35 points36 points  (1 child)

This right here folks, It's what we call Male Hamstering at it's finest.

[–]Braaaaaapp 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I was just about to say the same thing

[–]TissueDealer 12 points12 points [recovered]


This here, people. When a man calls another man a douche, he's recognizing superior frame. Always. "Asshole" and similar words can mean other things - douche and douchebag always mean "I'm intimidated by your frame".

[–]kellykebab 26 points27 points  (5 children)

This is maybe the most blue pill comment I have read on this sub in months. What's your amazing seduction method, whiner?

[–]Chungpels 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Seduction method, lol. Anyone who has a seduction method obviously are not getting laid. People, not just women, can tell an organic personality vs a guy who has obviously researched pick up tricks. This particular article reads as a little rapey with the whole rejection isn't really rejection bullshit.

[–]circlhat 16 points17 points  (3 children)

wow this is very well written and puts me in a good mindset

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Thanks, that's the primary goal!

[–]yallapapi 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Great post. I signed up.

Your site is unreadable on mobile, FYI.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoy the content!

I'll have to look into that mobile thing, it reads fine on my iphone, are you on android?

[–]cashmoney_x 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Oooorrrrrrr.......not jump through hoops like a fucking slaveboy and #mgtow this motherfucker. Haven't had sex in 4 years and my life has never been better (I'm dead serious on both counts). I did a pro/con list and dealing with women just ain't worth the physical pleasure/ego boost sex provides. What I lose there I make up for in a myriad of ways. Mentally and physically I have never been better.

[–]paksat 3 points4 points  (1 child)


basically all of it

I'm 7 for 7 on chicks over at my place so far for anyone wondering. First time over, all of them with clothes off within the first 2-3 hours

This advice is trash i'm sorry but I gotta say it. Especially 14 lol, "oh you gotta a d*ck so she wants you"

bruh every dude has a fuking d*ck and every girl does not want you

The best quick real advice I've ever seen for you guys to read would be the 16 commandments of poon ( google it )

[–]AttackOnKvothe 5 points6 points  (0 children)


No offense, but this looks more like "Abussive women are ok because it's all TRP in the end, you are just a cuck libtard who doesn't get it" self-delussion than actual advice.

yeah, I get it. Women shit-test men and all that. Ok, I agree with you.

But there not only should be, there IS a limit on "shit-tests"

If she says "Oh, you are such a player, I bet you say the same to all the girls" she is shit-testing you.

If she sets you on fire, she is a crazy psycho. No shit test, no bullshit. Its her fault, it's not yours for not being "manly enough"

I belive your post doesn't convey that, it just focuses on "over-frame the woman"

They are very good and valid advices, but if taken in it's entirety, this can be read as an "always be alert because life is a total chaotic war".

Nah man, sometimes I wanna relax with a girl. If she shit-test me, I will go with another who actually prefers to talk about random shit before fucking wildly.

[–]johnnnyrs 4 points5 points  (0 children)

5. You’re talking to a woman and there’s an uncomfortably long lull in the conversation.

Stare into her left pupil while saying nothing. Instant sexual tension.

hahahah... is this supposed to be a joke?

[–]ttstte 2 points2 points [recovered]

This is the saddest collection of words over ever read.

[–]SovereignSoul76 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Wow, this was actually very helpful. Interesting insight/well put regarding the "Women value you because you have a STRONGER FRAME than them. That's all." bit.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thanks for reading. Yeah, that was personally the big insight for me that took me years of approaching to finally get. Glad you got the main message I was trying to drive.

[–]thehugejackedman 7 points7 points [recovered]

You know what's ironic? You're the biggest BETA I know. By spending all this time fabricating theories about how to attract women you illustrate that you either don't have an SO or you have constantly failed at attracting / keeping a valuable mate.

For the young kids reading this - Just be yourself. If you find that isn't working, spend time with yourself and do what's realistic to improve. If you need advice from an actual adult who has had multiple very successful relationships feel free to message me. I am happy to help.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I'm building a red pill media company. That requires that I build an audience. Building an audience requires that I offer value to people. So right now, I do that by writing about my experience with game.

"you either don't have an SO or you have constantly failed at attracting / keeping a valuable mate."

No offense but I think you might be projecting, mate.

[–]thehugejackedman 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I'm starting to see reading comprehension suffers on this sub. Like the previous commenter, I have had one successful relationship after another since I was 17 and I am in my most fulfilling one yet.

'Experience with game'. Dude, get over yourself. That is laughably douchey. And if we are to talk about projection... The whole time I was reading this I couldn't help imagine you as the pre-experiment Captain America. But you know what was great about pre-experiment Captain America? He already had a woman who loved him for who he was because he was a kind and funny person. Not because of his 'strong frame'.

[–]L1amas 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Just be yourself.

Do you know what sub you're in? Literally that's the exact opposite of the mantra. Read the sidebar, and quit spewing idiocy. Another suggestion: Search for "Just be yourself" in this sub and see the results, then see yourself out.

[–]IIlllIllIIIllIl 12 points13 points  (3 children)

"Just be yourself" is literally the in the feminist manifesto for how to pick up women. If "just being myself" got me women, I would never have had the need to come here.

[–]thehugejackedman 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I'll break it down so it's easy for you.

Want a long lasting, successful relationship? Be you, and be you2 because that's how you find compatible women. Women who like you for who you are when you are the most you. If it hasn't worked, you haven't found others compatible, it takes time and patience. Not everyone can be with anyone.

Want to fuck girls at a college bar for the rest of your life? Lift weights and develop your inch thick 'strong' frame. Enjoy paying for her shoes the rest of your life.

[–]IIlllIllIIIllIl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Right, but you're missing the context of TRP. There are plenty of blue pill betas out there who are "just being themselves," and they're getting eaten alive left and right by the women they love.

Fundamentally, women love different than men. There is no good/bad judgment in that, it's simply reality. But I needed to be taught how to be a man, in our 21st century feminized society that's not something that comes natural. I'm proud that you popped out like that, but you're overlooking the realistic struggles that cause many men to come here.

[–][deleted] 9 points9 points

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[–]2MikeHaines[S] 16 points17 points  (2 children)

My advice is don't be too overt when closing the deal.

Give the girl plausible deniability. Make up a silly excuse for her to come home with you. "Let's go to my place quickly, you have to meet my cat, you're gonna love him, blah blah blah. You can't stay more than 30 minutes though, cos I have an early morning tomorrow so don't think anything's happening between us tonight because as soon as I let you pet my cat I'm kicking you out." Etc.

The girl KNOWS she's coming back to your place for sex. But by giving her a dumb excuse, she can PRETEND to herself/her friends that she's not "slutty". It's all about plausible deniability.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 5 points6 points  (3 children)

it goes a little into harassment territory

That's because women (through their desire to be ambiguous in order to further their sexual strategy) have made "getting laid" and "harassing her" exactly the same.

It need not be like this. A girl could simply say "sure, let's fuck" or "no thanks", in which case seduction and harassment would look completely different.

But they intentionally make seduction look like harassment to absolve themselves of all responsibility.

Women are rude to get rid of guys they don't like, and rude to guys they adore to test them. The behaviour is the same. That's why seduction and harassment look the same.

In short: tough shit... we didn't make the game this way, they did.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

great post. i've noticed the tests will get more intense after a while if you dont escalate, then they'll eventually stop as she loses interest. i've learned that if i don't escalate before she increases the level of her tests, i've lost and need to strike quicker. it happens pretty quickly, so you really have to just keep at it like you say

[–]1SeemedGood 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This post is pure gold - so many lessons many of us have experienced but never been able to understand in this complete a context - and so well distilled.

Mods should sticky this.

[–]B055AN0VA 4 points4 points [recovered]

A stong frame isn't everything. If your value is low you will get socially annihilated.

If you're willing to take shit and being ignored just to "be persistent and still try to fuck this 10" you have no self respect.

Your post is basically old-schooll PUA advice.

  1. You are TOO HIGH VALUE Yes, you read that correctly. When you’re getting “rejected” by girls, it’s because YOU’RE TOO HIGH VALUE FOR THEM, and it makes them nervous and self-conscious. Stay with me here. I know this sounds paradoxical, but try to grasp it.

Oh God please tell me you're not serious.

[–]FrameWalker 3 points4 points  (1 child)

  1. Women will test you brutally when they want to sleep with you

Bingo! I'd like to add some key points based on reading and experience 9s. You covered most of the points quite well.

A) While in public and at bars direct and forward is a major demonstration of value, at small parties I've always done well playing coy. I focus on the high status males (because they're great company) Sooner or later the HB8s and HB9s will begin compliance testing "hey get me a drink", "tell me your name", "how do you know John and Cindy?" Either ignore their questions/commands or joke around and never give a straight answer. At some point they'll be very curious and there'll be a 5-15 minute period where you get peppered with shit tests. If you make it through, soon the girls pretty much start grabbing you and you pick one. However if you're smart you'll know that HB8s and HB9s are highly fueled by preselection.

B) Which brings me to point 2: If you're interacting with HB8s and HB9s you would do well to play off 2-3 girls against each other. I've even had gay guys flirt with me at the bar while I'm picking up a girl. The girl will usually respond by rubbing my crotch or similar. For most of the hottest girls I've been with, there have been 2 or 3 in the running on that same night. Also when your out with HB8s and HB9s if another one crosses your path, flirt, sneak in a kiss and grab a number. Girls love "poaching."

C) What is the essence of an HB8/HB9? Extreme femininity. Expect Hb8s and HB9s to be emotional rollercoasters - it's the estrogen. Be a rock. From day 1 to the end. These women can seem crazy! Be ready. You absolutely must be masculine back or they will misbehave. Put them in their place, be firm.

[–]matrixpush 4 points5 points  (0 children)

All that's missing is style's C's vs U's routine. Basically a call to early PUA, built on the premise that any lardass can impress women with his personality.

The reality of America:


[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

bluepill nonesense, especially your second point

looks are literally the only thing that matter

you're delusional af if you think a konfident 5'2'' ugly ethnic would slay more (or at all tbh) than O'pry or Barrett even if they acted like complete beta cuckolds. the only time uglycels are ever going to get laid is when they meet tryone after the girls they try initiating contact with call the cops on them.

[–]Junior_YoloMiner 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I like the post. I think a lot of it is actually very true. However if you assume all girls will bang you you're in for a rough time. Especially if you lead with "Wow your bitchy cheerleader act turns me on" that's how you get a drink or a punch in the face.

There's a line people need to realize between being "Alpha" or "frame" or whatever else you want to call it and fucking weird. You leaving with your head up high is not a defeat. It's just a redirection.

[–]1kevin32 6 points7 points  (18 children)

I wish this sub would make up its mind about what really attracts women and stick with it.

I get that several factors are at play in terms of attraction: Looks, Money, Status, confidence, dominance, body language, social skills. But since the subject is on getting laid with bombshells, there is a minimum threshold that must be met for such women to want casual sex, and that threshold is Looks.

Height, muscles, mass, symmetrical face structure. These are the very first things women notice when a man approaches, and the primary measure by which she determines whether she will sleep with him (www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ4dIz5q648&t=15s). If he at least looks good, then he can play conversational gymnastics.

I can't believe this is being stickied and upvoted as if short, fat, skinny men are finally going to be banging 10s just by "being more confident" and passing tests. I guarantee OP is 6ft with decent looks and some muscular build.

[–]2MikeHaines[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Notice that I said in the post looking good WILL help your game, WILL make getting laid smoother, and WILL increase your probabilities of pulling hotties. Nowhere did I deny that.

And yeah, I lift and take care of myself like anyone else here. That's MANDATORY for a man, for more reasons than just looking good.

My experience is this: I've been ugly (skinny, small, bad acne). I've been semi-"handsome" (some muscles, decent face, nice clothes). The reactions from women are not all that different.

I spent a long time trying to work on my looks, but I was still basically celibate. It's when I first started to approach, and then mastered the art of enduring tests, that my game exploded. This leads me to think that while looks are important, they're not necessarily the highest LEVERAGE point in terms of results.

Just my experience, mate. You're free to have your own opinion.

[–][deleted] 44 points44 points

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