LTRThe ideal Red Pill lifestyle includes a long term relationship. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

After having more or less spun plates for the last 18 months, I've come to the conclusion that a healthy LTR situation is more conducive to the stable happiness of a man than having multiple sex partners or engaging in regular one night stands.

That said, it is better to spin plates than to be involuntarily celibate.

Involuntary celibacy < bad LTR < one night stands < spinning plates < good LTR

The reason why long term relationships are preferable to spinning plates and one night stands is based on the price and quality of sex in them. With a one night stand, the quality of sex can't be guaranteed, while the price can often be high: My average one night stand consisted of a tinder match, some witty banter, some more banter over text, maybe a phone call, meeting them in person in public, circling back to my house, often dealing with some LMR and ASD, and finally getting to it. Sometimes I got very lucky and there was a low investment night with a hot girl, but these happen months apart.

The quality of the sex, too, was nothing in a ONS compared to the quality of the sex I have with my girlfriend because of the lack of sexual familiarity that you have in a long term relationship.

The investment required to get sex in a good relationship is laughably lower than it is via a one night stand or even a plate: “Still on for tonight at 7?” Done.

There are a handful of rules that are important to follow to cultivate a healthy long term relationship. These are not meant as absolutes but as general guidelines which mitigate the major pitfalls in relationships.

  1. Do not cohabitate. (I will assume I don't have to tell you to not marry) There isn't any way that cohabitating with a woman will increase the attraction between you two. It will make it much more difficult for you to use constant dread game to keep your woman in line, and will altogether erode the psychological autonomy you have when you have your own space and time away from your girl.

  2. Spend money on her proportional to the value she adds to your life. Does she bend over backwards to make you happy? Take her out to dinner. Does she scramble at the opportunity to fix your clothes or rub your back? Buy her a flower. Never invest in her financially prior to her providing value. Under $5 doesn't count, i.e., ice cream / coffee.

  3. Do not ask for or promise sexual exclusivity. You are always free to bang other girls (ideally you won't want to, though) and she is technically free to bang other guys (ideally she wont want to). If your relationship is strong, you will tell her “I am not seeing other girls right now.” If she eventually demands exclusivity or else she'll leave, that's when you make a calculated decision whether to bail or to commit. The primary reason for not committing is the constant dread game that it integrates into the relationship. When she knows at any moment you could be out banging another girl, without guilt, it prompts her to 1. Be very sexually generous with you while you're together, 2. Be on her best behavior so as to keep you emotionally invested and less likely to sleep with someone else.

  4. Never give her negativity or toxicity. If you always treat her with respect (teasing and farting on her is not disrespect), you will always have the upper hand in any future disagreements. If she becomes toxic, she will realize she started it and should eventually recognize that and apologize. Never giving a girl negativity avoids a massive world of drama that negative people have to live in. If you are always positive, and she is still negative towards you, without apologizing afterwards and making amends, go no-contact or simply say “Don't contact me again, we're done.”

  5. Do not see her every day. My personal preference is to see the girl I am dating twice a week. Each time, she stays the night at my place and we spend approximately 12 to 18 hours together. Seeing a girlfriend every single day is an attraction killer and shouldn't be done really at any point of the relationship. You need time to miss her, and you need her to miss you. This is why I don't travel with girls. Day 3 and I will already hate them.

  6. Text game is strictly logistics and jokes. Never discuss emotions or the nature of the relationship over text. Ideally, avoid discussing the nature of the relationship at any time. Occasionally it must be done, but this should occur very rarely. You should be banging her 75 times for every time there is a conversation about “where we stand” or “where things are going.”

Feedback is appreciated as these are not convictions but hunches.

LT;DR: A good relationship is the system of female interaction which is most conducive to your well-being as a redpilled man. This is based on the quality and price of sex in a relationship versus ONS and plates.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian 95 points96 points  (16 children)

Different people want different things and people change.

There is something exciting about the hunt when you are single and it can lead to more risk taking behavior and more adventure. For some that is more valuable than the frequency or quality of sex.

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (10 children)

Agreed. There's a time for conquest, and your conquest phase more than probably anything will prepare you for a good relationship.

[–]Eastuss 37 points37 points [recovered]

As someone in a 10 year long relationship that recently went really healthier, I can tell you my wife is not sexually attractive to me anymore... The sex is perfect, but I'm not craving for it, because I got it more than 1000 time, I want some fucking partner diversity and I'm not getting any in that LTR.

And her body hasn't changed at all, it even got better.

[–]Heathcliff-- 16 points16 points [recovered]


What is this?

[–]samenrofringslikeLBJ 19 points19 points [recovered]

Overhyped IMO, I was with a model for 4 years and during that time, you could put on me on 2 hours sleep for weeks with bad food where nothing in my body worked, but i'd still get rock hard for her.

Mediocrity is boring in the long run, a 9/10 ass in doggystyle will retain its wonder.

[–]Eastuss 2 points3 points  (0 children)

From experience that depends from men to men.

No matter how hot a woman is, if I know her body by heart I won't be interested that much. Whenever I was fapping a lot to porn, I would sometimes find "the" perfect girl with that astronomical body that I would never get bored of, I always got bored of those. Same for crushes during teenage years.

It's not like I don't have sex anymore with my 10 year long partner, it's just that seeing her naked or the thought of having sex with her isn't that much appealing. Her ass is a 8/10 to me. Meanwhile I can have a boner by thinking of sex with a less good looking woman.

I prefer a LTR lifestyle, and functioning like that is kind of a curse. If you're not like that then enjoy.

[–]VTMSCHVSVCTRY 10 points10 points [recovered]

Thanks for your input, as it was the most valuable comment I've read in a while. You've perfectly illustrated the pros and cons of any choice. In economics, it's commonly referred to as "opportunity cost". You can't have it all, but you can have all the lessons if you pay close attention to your situation in comparison with someone that is similar to you on the opposite side of the fence. In an LTR, you lose novelty. That is the core of the problem of LTR's for both the woman and the man. The core of the problem in bachelorhood is consistency. So you have places like this sub or cultures like PUA try to address these contrasts by selling an ideal: consistent novelty. In actuality, what we're really trying to do is mitigate risk and secure larger returns. That in essence is the name of the game.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorBlacklabellogics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I recently wrote an article on opportunity and replacement costs in relationships (http://wp.me/p78k8O-tF) and this post is exactly right. However, with relationships you also get a sunk cost aspect, as the time dedicated to the relationship only has value as long as you are in that relationship.

Once you leave the relationship not only have you had quite substantial sunk cost losses, and opportunity costs, you then have to take on replacement costs as well.

From a risk management perspective, there are certain risks a man faces when in a LTR but there are also risks a man faces outside of an LTR when spinning plates. I covered them in depth here (http://wp.me/p78k8O-om) but I'll do a quick rundown:

  • Risk of STD/Accidental pregnancy are higher outside of an LTR.
  • Risk of dry spells are higher outside of an LTR

  • Risk of drama is higher in an LTR

  • Risk of the woman acting up is higher in an LTR

  • The amount of resources you have to divert from yourself to "us" is higher in an LTR. (affects long-term investment)

From an investment perspective, spinning plates is an attempt to diversify away risk through portfolio theory. Namely, that the total risk of all your plates is lower than each plate individually.

An LTR on the other hand (unless OLTR where you have multiple plates) is a case of putting all your eggs in one basket, and thus face higher levels of risk.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I've just recently learned this first hand chasing European girls. You must "conquistare" them, and it's one hell of a hunt. At first I thought, "wtf, I miss New York girls where having sex meant taking them out for a night in the city and being just slightly charming." As time went on however, I began to hunt and conquistare a Belgian girl. Enjoying your prey after a good, long hunt is much more satisfying than having everything come easy. Plus, you know your girl is classy, cultured, and one intimidating woman to other guys looking her way.

[–]KINGahRoo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Can confirm. Dated a Bulgarian women straight from the source and 'twas amazing! The looks she got from being an exotic European was insane!! It's an insane power trip most men couldn't even begin to imagine. 10/10 recommended, try European!!

[–]TheReformist94 5 points6 points  (0 children)

the only people who want relationships are the top 20% of men and women who decide THEY WANT A RELATIONSHIP(read: want, not need and can ditch the LTR when it doesnt suit them).

For the remaining BOTTOM 80% MALES and BOTTOM 20% FEMALES, they will NEED RELATIONSHIPS as the return on investment of pursuing casual sex is not worth it, so they need the LTR for emotional stability/sex/resources whatever.

[–]2IVIaskerade 15 points16 points  (2 children)

There's something exciting about the hunt when you're single, but nothing is better than the hunt when you're allegedly in a relationship.

[–]VTMSCHVSVCTRY 1 points1 points [recovered]

Would you say "guilt" is an aphrodisiac?

[–]2IVIaskerade 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, because there's no guilt there.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (4 children)

Never give her negativity or toxicity. you will always have the upper hand in any future disagreements

feels over reals brah, women can create totally different versions of the past and reality in their mind

[–]cleftscout 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Mine does this frequently. She's bonkers and I just ignore her telling me I did something different and stick with my story and a pinch of dread until she cries and accepts it.

[–]Wumpus1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That sounds like a pain in the ass. Why not find someone who is actually enjoyable to hang out with?

Pussy is definitely an acceptable answer but really you're only making your life worse by dealing with mediocrity instead of what you really want!

[–]cleftscout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still like her, she's a fun bonkers more than she is bad. On her worst day, friends are still a little jealous of me, if for nothing more than her looks.

[–]Returnofthemack3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah seriously. It's honestly quite shocking. I know a girl that looks favorably on our past when it was completely TERRIBLE. They literally invent their own realities at points

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 144 points145 points  (51 children)

Feedback is appreciated as these are not convictions but hunches.

I like that disclaimer. Very honest of you.

I like your post. It seems to me that it all agrees pretty well with red pill theory. Particularly, it seems very compatible with HSP's Holy Scripture guide to managing your bitches. I'm going to bookmark it for when I decide it's time for LTR.

Just a comment about point 4 ("Never give her negativity or toxicity"). Women don't want to feel good, they want to feel. So while having a negative attitude is always a bad idea, giving her some negative feelings is not necessarily a bad one. Women feed on drama so feed her some a bit.

Also, I realize the title is strongly opinionated, but I am asking fellow TRPers not to downvote this post simply because you disagree with the title. Judge it on the content.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 24 points25 points  (10 children)

That piece was from my earlier days, just a wee lad in the manosphere. Solid points, but needs a rewrite.

Women feed on drama so feed her some a bit.

Cause drama without being 'dramaful'

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (5 children)

Easiest drama-without-dramaful trick: radio silence. So underrated.

[–]Atticus_Crowley 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Depends on the girl. My last ex decided we should split after I went 2 days radio silent after an incident with her. I was gonna split with her regardless (and she probably picked up on that) but she took the silent treatment really personally.

[–]sfstexan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If you were going to split with her regardless she probably split with you because of this. Not because of the radio silence.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That piece ...

I remember reading that piece and having that moment of realization oh, that's why that happened

One of the pillars of my personal RP education, so thank you for that.

[–]saladon 3 points3 points [recovered]

I would love to hear just a few points that you feel needs updating or adding.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

and /u/Auvergnat

More about style and adding practicality.

Stay tuned for next time on Dragon Ball Z...

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To me it's such a good fundational redpill post, that I would be very interested to know from its author what needs to be amended.

Women feed on drama so feed her some a bit.

Cause drama without being 'dramaful'

That goes without saying. And actually, women are designed to create drama out of thin air so you don't quite need to create any. It's enough to just wait for it to happen & not be so quick to de-escalate the situation (aka "being appeasing", aka "what I have been doing all my blue pill life and was fucking proud of it despite it fucking up my relationships but was too blind to see the connection")

[–][deleted] 81 points82 points  (39 children)

Yes. As shallow and trivial as it sounds, a good way to get a girl to feel something negative without actually being negative is to read her text message without responding. Occasionally not reciprocating an "I love you" can stir her emotions as well.

Every once and a while, cancel on her and give a reason like "I'm gonna take it easy tonight."

Being a bit physically distant for an hour. Walking out of the room suddenly. Buying candy and not sharing it with her. Totally random stuff like that keeps a girl guessing and avoids letting yourself "settle" into her mind as predictable and boring.

While not toxic or negative, these communicate to her in that moment: You are NOT that important to me. You're not my princess.

[–][deleted] 143 points144 points  (31 children)

Lol at buying candy and not sharing - fucking genius mr machiavelli

[–]Ozymanberg 93 points94 points  (10 children)

This is why feminists have us in such a bad light. How ruthless can you get?

[–]Nay2003 3 points4 points  (0 children)

buying food and not sharing man get on my level

[–]Entrefut 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"Sorry babe, these skittles fit perfectly into my macros."

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Trp isnt a goal, its a strategy

[–]103342 63 points64 points  (7 children)

My personal opinion on this, and the way I have lived my life for many years now: NEVER be sexually exclusive with just one woman. Be constantly fucking other women or alone.

Being sexually exclusive with just one girl is a surefire way to frustration. The power gravitates to her by default (she can replace at any time she wants, you can't).

THIS is the real "redpill" (if it even exists one) to have relationships.

In case you guys haven't noticed the "sexual market" is still good for men, but the "relationship market" is fucked up beyond repair in the short-term. This sort of stuff goes way beyond things you can control yourself, your little list there, besides being too "ideal", it can backfire on you on each one of these items. This means that her behaviour is outside of your control, not worth the try.

Don't think for a second that the problem is just that men are too "beta" to handle women. There are A LOT of masculine men getting busted out there and I also believe that there are a lot of men in this sub that were masculine even before coming here and realized that something was very wrong.

[–]squidracer -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

she can replace you at any time, you can't

I don't really agree. I was more or less faithful for several years, because that's just how I am.. When I announced my breakup on Facebook I had two messages within an hour and a girl over that weekend

[–]CanuckinFL 27 points28 points  (3 children)

squid, no hell way you can compete with women in terms of sexual availability, man. Props to you on your Facebook recovery, but really, if a woman wants to get laid inside of an hour after breaking off with you, it's done. And that assumes she's waited until the end of the relationship to act, which itself is a crazy assumption.

[–]squidracer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Who cares?? As long as I got laid

[–]Your_Coke_Dealer -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Who said it was a competition? If I and a woman each have the goal of getting laid one night (yeah, bite me, I know it's a proper mentality that women aren't a goal), and she has 3 acceptable prospects and I have one, each of us gets the same thing. I say acceptable prospects as an other-things-equal in terms of physical attractiveness standards. It doesn't matter she has more availability; she still has only one vagina to fill, and I have one dick to get wet. So why compare? So long as I have ready options for sex, though the more the merrier, abundance exists in the grand scheme of things for me as much as her.

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (9 children)

This post has a lot of upvotes, but in the end what are you really saying?

Since you're saying "don't be exclusive", what you're talking about isn't really a LTR as anybody else would define it. You're talking about a fuckbuddy and the advantages of having a long term fuckbuddy versus one night stands. Well no shit...

If you insist on calling what you're describing a LTR, let me ask you this: Why not have two girls in a relationship like this? Or 3, 4...

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (5 children)

I think a fuck buddy becomes a relationship when you do things other than have sex, when you go climbing and to galleries and events and you introduce them to your friends and do things together socially, not in order to get sex but because you enjoy her company in a variety of environments.

[–]Your_Coke_Dealer 2 points3 points  (1 child)

In my opinion that's half right. For instance, I have one fuck buddy I'll do plenty of other stuff with. Go exploring abandoned buildings or out clubbing, or any kind of adventurous activity. Is it a relationship of sorts? Yeah, not denying that, since it's more than just sex. But it's also not a dating kind of relationship, because I'm not about anything romantic, and I'm also not exclusive with her. I guess "friends with benefits" applies best, since I'm doing things I'd do with a friend, and also fucking her.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are grey zones. The terminology is not terribly important as long as the basic pitfalls are avoided.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I wouldn't introduce a girl to my friends who is fucking other guys. And you should also respect your friends more than that. When introducing a girl to your friends it comes with the expectation that they treat her with respect as an extension of their respect to you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wouldn't introduce a girl to my friends who is fucking other guys.

Valid point. If I knew she was fucking other guys, no. If it was a mere possibility, then maybe, but at something informal like a party. If I was confident she wasn't sleeping with other guys, I'd be willing to introduce her to actual close friends of mine if I feel like that'd be fun.

[–]Orig_analUse_rname 1 points1 points [recovered]

Yup. THIS is the real ideal. We gotta come up with a name for them. Not quite LTR but a little more than FWB. Some kind of...super plate.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 53 points54 points  (33 children)

You did not mention a huge consideration: BIRTH CONTROL. As in BE IN CONTROL. Get in a LTR and be tempted to just use the pill or whatever, good luck with that.

Also, I have to add, from an older generation where shit was better in every way, you young guys are FUCKED. The fact that you have to resort to a list of rules and tactics, shit is bad out there right now, and will be for how long?

[–]BreathOfDick 26 points27 points  (27 children)

Internet has made moving on too easy for them. So many orbiters. So many legit attractive guys readily available.

[–]BoyWhoreWithASword 12 points13 points  (26 children)

Yes the scales have tipped completely out of balance. The situation in the western world is a violation of natural law.

I can't imagine anything tipping the scales significantly other than male birth control or war on the scale that 15-20% of the male population is wiped out.

That's how bad shit has gotten.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 22 points23 points  (23 children)

you young guys are FUCKED.

The situation in the western world is a violation of natural law.

Let's work this out, because you have the history and the RP theory wrong. Natural law is women get their choice and only 20% of males mate. Those are the true alphas.

Then comes the advent of agriculture and the accumulation of resources. More alphas getting all the women. This is when only 1 man reproduced for every 17 women.

But then the men who had all the resources could only maintain that by enlisting massive amounts of workers, we know them as betas. Those guys weren't going to work for nothing! So marriage was invented, and then reinforced by society to placate betas into having something to work for.

All religion and social structures of the last 10,000 years has been OPPRESSION OF WOMEN'S SEXUALITY. For the benefit of the 80% of men who do not have alpha qualities. Until mid-20th century feminism.

So the situation in the western world is a return to a more natural state of affairs, not a violation of natural laws.

[–]mcpaulus 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Wait, are you saying that 10.000 years ago in the Stone age, only 1 of 10 guys produced children? Do you have any credible sources for this?

Or am I misreading this horribly?

[–]idgaf- 0 points1 point  (2 children)

There was research pointed out in a thread a short while ago, https://archive.is/YVTbz

[–]mcpaulus 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I read that article, and even though I would not call it a credible source, it does have some amazing findings.

[–]BreathOfDick 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Legal prostitution would be nice

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorBlacklabellogics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Prostitution is already legal, but just like calls to a drug dealer, you cannot be overt about it.

[–]Entrefut 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I don't think guys in your generation had access to this much pussy though. Takes a little time to get good, but once you get going the polygamy is insane. It's more of a game than it used to be, but it's not like it's really that bad. I'm enjoying the hell out of the dating scene right now.

[–]3whatsthisgarg 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I don't think guys in your generation had access to this much pussy though.

Not what I meant; I was talking about LTRs, which are extremely satisfying, if you aren't 99% certain you're going to be cheated on.

Back to your point, you have no idea what you're talking about. There has ALWAYS been abundant pussy for the top dudes, which I count myself very lucky to be among. I remember ONCE I went 30 days without getting laid. And, THREE TIMES, I had to settle for drunken ONS with chicks below my standards. Other than that, it was high quality and often, with almost every "type" of woman I wanted.

It was also ALL no condoms. I didn't even see a condom out of the wrapper until I was 22. Even with AIDS in the area, the 1980s was a great time for fucking and for everything else.

By the way, all you have to do is go back to your comments while you're logged in and click delete to the duplicates. That way you won't look like such a dingus, my friend. Have a great day.

[–]LosingMoneyAllDay 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I came to this conclusion myself approximately two years ago. The rules set out by OP are necessary. In my place of residence, cohabitation after 1 year means common law marriage too. DO NOT MOVE IN TOGETHER.

If you have trouble selling it, try "we both are adults who need our own space, if we constantly see each other we will grow tired of one another".

That will buy you more time, but sooner or later they all end in either marriage (you bent) or a breakup (you wouldn't bend).

[–]yaardi 99 points100 points  (15 children)

Involuntary celibacy < bad LT

Having been through shitty LT relationships and being alone, I'd definitely choose the loneliness.

[–][deleted] 88 points89 points  (12 children)

That's called voluntarily celibacy. Involuntary celibacy is when you can't get a woman with an acceptable SMV to fuck you

[–]Thizzlebot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm in that boat now. If it's not actively adding or neutral in my life it's making me worse and I'm better/healthier without. This is why abundance mentality is important.

[–]innominating 11 points12 points  (11 children)

So you only fuck twice a week?

[–]homelessWOOKIE9 17 points18 points  (8 children)

2-4 is optimal for me. Anything more and i'm just going through the motions. Prolactin is a real buzzkill

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I practice karezza--sex without orgasm--all but every 7 to 10 days.

Keeps the prolactin problem at bay.

[–]returnofthemackX 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I honestly don't see the point in that.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Semen retention, testosterone increase, prolactin reduction. Focus, superpowers, happiness, etc.

[–]badDayAtBerchdsgaden 0 points1 point  (0 children)


Well that list took off at the end more than expected

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Usually 2 or 3 times each time we hang out.

[–]Rufferto_n_Groo 16 points17 points  (0 children)

These were my best relationships. Always have your own life, and she better have her own.

[–]TheOneTrueMagnet 12 points12 points [recovered]

TRP is here to give you tools that you can use to create the life you want. Some may go be monks somewhere. Some may spin plates their whole lives. Some may have a series of LTRs. Some will get married. TRP does not and should not endorse any lifestyle. It is your job to decide what you want to do and then go do it. We are not here to sell fantasies of utopia and game theory optimal solutions to anything. We are here to discover and share tools and techniques that work. What you do with them is up to you.

[–]10211799107 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Couldn't have said it any better. 100% this

[–]BoobToArmRatio 19 points20 points  (1 child)

It depends on how you define an "ideal" RP lifestyle. From a TRP subreddit perspective, TRP is about male sexual strategy and spinning plates is an optimal strategy. However, I personally agree with OP and believe that living a Red Pill lifestyle should be more than just being socially RP and spinning plates.

While OP went into more detail on specifics, in a broad sense I feel like any guy who has had experience spinning plates and truly understands the Red Pill dynamic between men and women would have no trouble managing a LTR with a higher quality girl. I also think that if you 100% know that you could leave the girl and be perfectly fine as a single man then you'll always be in control. You only lose control once you start doubting yourself or if you start relying on the girl for validation, happiness, etc.

So if you are capable of and want to be in a LTR, and you have a good candidate, then by all means let her "convince you". Just make sure you use the time and energy saved from not spinning plates on something productive. Personally I recommend working on financial RP, but do whatever you think will improve yourself as a man!

[–]godiebiel 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Red Pill is not about misogyny. It's about self-respect as a man and human being.

[–]enkae7317 18 points19 points  (1 child)

One big thing you've missed is that she and you should be having sex, a LOT. And sex shouldn't be a commodity that is thrown around--it should be an act of love a fun you two do together as a couple. The moment she starts limiting you in any way or form (ultimatums) is a clear indicator that you're doing something wrong. In fact, she should be all up on you, almost every time you guys meet up.

[–]interestedplayer 0 points1 point  (0 children)


What is this?

[–]1SeemedGood 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I feel like the YMMV rule applies here, but solid post nonetheless.

[–]Surfincloud9 16 points17 points  (6 children)

I follow all of this but number 6. I have really damaged the attraction because of texting way too much and definitely about the relationship. If I text her less, she feels like I am distancing myself and will do the same herself. I don't like these games and recently, I have been a lot better at it. We won't talk about the relationship anymore, she questions if I really want this with her and I comfort her. My SMV is definitely quite a bit more than hers but sometimes I slip back to being a beta. Practice practice, it's like riding a bike. This is my last chance though, if I fuck up and act like a bitch or complain to her again, then I will end it myself. Not gonna try to dig myself out of a hole too deep

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 8 points9 points  (5 children)

If I text her less, she feels like I am distancing myself and will do the same herself.

Attraction will go up, and her distancing is a bluff.

I comfort her.

this sounds like a very beta relationship you got going on.

My SMV is definitely quite a bit more than hers

but does she know that? does she FEEL that?

[–]Surfincloud9 6 points7 points  (3 children)

I've had my beta moments. It started out alpha but I slipped quite a bit. First relationship since I've been off heroin. I'm trying to revert back to that. Maybe too late but I know people who started relationships beta, found TRP and really flipped it

[–]kruxofthemimed 2 points3 points  (2 children)

in the process here as well. Had a very very bad relationship, lots of mistrust and I was a huge beta. We lived together at the age of 17 for two years and that really fucked things up.

[–]Surfincloud9 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It's all a process of learning. We are too young not to be learning from relationships

[–]kruxofthemimed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yup. Biggest things I've taken from TRP is that instead of making the relationship my end goal, it should be a complement to the goals of my life and nothing more. Also distance/not being needy are huge.

[–]Hakametal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Attraction will go up, and her distancing is a bluff.

THIS right here is one of the biggest shit-tests that men fail. The real question is, would you really want to spend time with a woman who holds back on her feelings?

I had this big time 9 months ago, when I dated HB10 who was very insecure and had a lot of narc traits. I always used the phone for logistics only and short banter and never over texted her, yet it drove her fucking mad. The thing I didn't realise was that when mind games are being played, she is seeing if you're a needy beta.

Personally though, women like this are drama... and I honestly get tired very quickly from drama.

[–]drew967 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Isnt it possible to instill dread game into a relationship though?

[–]MilleniumForce 14 points15 points  (1 child)

This can be a deceptive post for those new to TRP. In my experience, dudes can have a hard time letting go of their old mindset, and the nuance of this post will blow past them.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I had the same thought while writing it, so I decided to put in bold some phrases that make it more clear we're talking about an alpha LTR.

[–]Bigcasanova 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Pretty good post overall. In my ltr, I am conditionally exclusive. I have a traditional woman that cleans and bends over backwards to please me and be the archetypal good woman . BecAuse of this she is actively earning my exclusivity . She knows if she starts to become a naggy bitch or doesn't take care of herself or doesn't make every effort to satisfy my sexual needs , that'd be the end of it .

I enjoy the ltr thoroughly , it adds a lot of value to my life , however I'd probably jump at the chance to start banging some strange , which she knows I'd have no problem getting . I believe this is the proper dynamic for a successful ltr . Because she knows I'd just keep on being me and improving myself if she left or did any of the former , it motivates her to always be better . True outcome independence in this case . Ltr continues = great . Easy sex , other benefits with very minor negatives ( not fucking tons of different chicks ). Ltr ends = I just spin plates

[–]Hakametal 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Dread. Your comment can be summed up with one word: Dread.

You are obviously high SMV compared to her... and you are instilling natural Dread into your relationship.

[–]Bigcasanova 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1-2 points favoring the Man is optimal , and other factors help . This woman comes from a very traditional background with strong father figure and feminine mother . Still no such thing as unicorns, just ideal conditions

[–]2IVIaskerade 18 points19 points  (1 child)

No, the ideal RP relationship involves as many women as possible in a harem, kept in a stand-alone building in your palace grounds, and tended by eunuchs (or nu-males, it's the same thing).

[–]ihateyouguys 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I don't quite see the distinction between what you described and spinning plates

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My understanding is that spinning plates is essentially having multiple fuckbuddies, whereas a LTR involves spending the majority of your time with one person, who you do things with other than have sex.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Actually, the ideal RP lifestyle would include multiple open (on the man's side) LTRs. I pretty much have that with two of my girls, as well as a couple others in the stable. When it works is tres cool.

[–]2IVIaskerade 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Pledging yourself to one woman is stupid because at the end of the day, no matter how NAWALT she is, AWALT and familiarity breeds laziness. With multiple relationships the women never lose that competitive edge.

[–]Hakametal 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Surely though, there are ways to implement Dread within a committed relationship?

[–]2IVIaskerade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never said there weren't.

[–]PabloEscoba 7 points8 points  (4 children)

LTR with todays cunts? Pathetic. I actually see why I spend more and more of my time in the MGTOW sub. AWALT dude AWALT

[–]Dubalicious 1 point2 points  (2 children)

How is 'giving up' any less pathetic than enjoying TRP lifestyle while keeping an eye open for high/higher value women?

[–]Hakametal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You've literally hit the nail on the head.

[–]PabloEscoba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

MGTOW can still maintain relations with women, we just dint obsess about pussy like TRP. Read about MGTOW level 3

[–]bumbuff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He's not wrong, in a theoretical sense. Alpha males of yesteryear didn't live to be 80. They took on the burdens of the world and died a 'hero' at a younger age.

There's no glory in western civilizations currently, beyond having a high salary.

[–]Mildly_Sociopathic 2 points3 points  (3 children)

lack of sexual familiarity you have in a long term relationship

Erm, what? Pretty sure you have it mixed up.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

In a ONS, you don't have the kind of sexual familiarity that you have in a relationship.

[–]Gunnilingus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

He meant your phrasing. The way you wrote it could be interpreted as implying that there is a lack of sexual familiarity in long term relationships. I understood what you meant but your grammar is jacked up in that sentence.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You understood it because you can think.

The quality of the sex, too, was nothing in a ONS compared to the quality of the sex I have with my girlfriend because of the lack of sexual familiarity that you have in a long term relationship.

The grammar here is perfect. "..the lack of sexual familiarity" is describing the subject of the sentence, which is "the quality of sex in a ONS."


Actually the sentence can be interpreted:

[lack of sexual familiarity] [that you have in a long term relationship.] (incorrect)


[lack of] [sexual familiarity that you have in a long term relationship.] (correct)

The ambiguity is admittedly something I'd fix if I cared more.

[–]2kez88 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Good points. Cohabitating actually makes it easier to dread IMO. When you're not living together and you go do your own thing for 5-6 hours, she has no idea you're doing your own thing. If she's sitting at home and you're out doing your own thing and she hasn't heard from you, you better believe she's going to be more worried and wonder where you are.

I don't think cohabitating is a good thing though, as you're right that it kills attraction. When I was in a LTR I rarely saw my ex 2 days in a row, as it definitely does kill the attraction.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Do not ask for or promise sexual exclusivity. You are always free to bang other girls (ideally you won't want to, though) and she is technically free to bang other guys (ideally she wont want to). If your relationship is strong, you will tell her “I am not seeing other girls right now.” If she eventually demands exclusivity or else she'll leave, that's when you make a calculated decision whether to bail or to commit. The primary reason for not committing is the constant dread game that it integrates into the relationship. When she knows at any moment you could be out banging another girl, without guilt, it prompts her to 1. Be very sexually generous with you while you're together, 2. Be on her best behavior so as to keep you emotionally invested and less likely to sleep with someone else.

"LTR" implies exclusivity. That's an open relationship, not an LTR. It's definitely possible to continue to employ dread while you're in an LTR, but you need to be more tactful about it. Simply going to the gym isn't enough. She's needs to be aware that you won't hesitate to drop her if she has a streak of misbehaving.

I flirt with other women in front of my LTR because it shows her that she's not my only option. The pre-selection, coupled with the fact that "I still choose her at the end of the night", turns her on. It turns me into the prize rather than the other way around.

Being her prize is how you employ dread in an LTR, because no woman wants to lose her prize.

[–]BreathOfDick 1 point2 points  (1 child)

LTR doesn't necessarily mean exclusive, depending on who you ask. Look up blackdragon MLTR and OLTR.

[–]squidracer 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I do get tired of spinning plates.. This whole year I've went back and forth from spinning to mgtow, back to spinning.. I'll get fed up so I'll go mgtow, but then I'll get bored so I'll line up dates again (usually online or bars).. Hook up a few times then back to mgtow.

Honestly I just want someone to watch TV with at the end of the day

[–]PragmaticRedTruth 4 points4 points [recovered]

Gotta stand the fuck up and push this out of your mind. If you've been spinning plates less than 24 months, you just aren't in the swing of it yet.

There is nothing better than killing shit and your personal life, calling up a plate, crushing her vagina, and sleeping alone for the night.

If I remember nothing else as long as I live it's this:

"The only times I've ever caught myself really longing for a relationship... it's been when I was tired, lazy, or doubting myself.

Overcome that shit, you're capable. You just need to get stronger.

Or... if you really want a relationship (because that's what TRP is, a toolbox to provide the tools any one man may need.) then go get one. But don't be surprised when you realize it's not all it's cracked up to be and it is you that needs to work on and transform yourself and it's not that you need a relationship or to cuddle up and watch TV.

[–]squidracer 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Spun plates for over a decade.. It's lost its appeal

[–]PragmaticRedTruth 2 points2 points [recovered]

What's missing from your life right now that wasn't a decade ago?

[–]JacquesNicoleSonne 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate you honesty. In the end of the day, that's all we just want

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I'm gonna disagree. I'm in my early 40s and have been multi-dating since I was in college. I've had many MLTRs and have two right now. But I always spin plates and always will.

A single LTR is a bad idea. And why would you want to bang only one broad anyway?

[–]BoyWhoreWithASword 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Having an LTR doesn't mean you can't spin plates or have side pussy.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

And why would you want to bang only one broad anyway?

Time constraints. Other projects and interests. To me, a relationship is like a toilet. It serves to manage a bodily function so that I can be in a good mindset to do other things.

[–]N3sh108 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I don't know man. I found your post mostly solid but I can't agree to this.

Being in a relationship with someone you have good synergy is definitely more than just a toilet.

[–]Corndog_Enthusiast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Day 3 and I already hate them

That's not really a healthy LTR. I understand cabin fever, but 3 days is nothing.

[–]samenrofringslikeLBJ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Cohabitation is cancer. The only benefit is a small increase in the difficulty to cheat, which she will anyway. Cheating is the major problem for LTR's, so the only way to make LTR's attractive is to solve cheating which you can't unless you move out to a lonely island or some extreme shit like that. And even then, a woman will likely fuck a cocunut tree on that island because of the incessant need to have bigger better things in her vagina.

[–]joh2141 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Title is a bit too absolute in what is a discussion/opinion post though I don't disagree with a lot of the points you mention. I find myself agreeing with many of them except the ones like regarding if in an ideal relationship you won't want to bang another person. This I feel like is just your biased interpretation at the situation. If you walk by a really hot chick that is irresistible, you're going to want to bang her no matter how good the relationship between you and your gf is. The only way you're not is if you have an unhealthy obsession with her in which case you guys are both either codependent on each other or you're into her more than she's into you. A perfect marriage/LTR/sex partner doesn't stop you from lusting after other people too.

If life ever taught me anything, it's not always about how much hotter is the girl but rather newer pussy (I don't mean young or anything pedos do. I mean like new to YOU reinforcing the 'many fish in the sea.') is always more appealing.

[–]Antibuddy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Again, what's missing from this is acknowledgement that things change as we age, and a discussion on how they change. This advice is going to be completely different for a 22 year old vs a 3 year old. Completely. I would never advocate a 22 year old do anything BUT spin plates.

[–]FrameWalker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Every man has to decide for himself. LTR should not be attempted before the man is ready. I highly reccomend at minimum 24 months of spinning plates. You need to fully embrace abundance and get experience with shit tests.

If you are not ready you will be a shitty boyfriend because your frame is weak. Dont drag yourself through the mud because you arent ready.

[–]deeeeekay 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Ideally is a good one LTR, and one or two plates. I've been seeing a girl, and shes completely fine, even open with me sleeping other women while being exclusive to me. Unfortunately, I had to drop one plate who was getting too familiar (too much shit testing) so I'm at just the LTR now.

I've been alone, I've spun plates, I've had sparse sex, and I've done the exclusive LTR. Where I am is by faaar the ideal situation, my LTR knows I've got girls that are in queue if I decide to dip at any point.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I used to spin a plate or two in addition to my LTR. Maybe it's winter, but my desire is lower now. Come summer I'd imagine my mood will shift and I'll be on tinder again.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think at this point you are redefining LTR to make your point. Seeing her twice a week? Keeping other women around??? If you are engaging with other women, you are simply spinning one plate for longer than the other plates if you know what I am saying.

Basically you have only made it more clear how traditional LTRs aren't worth it for the unplugged high value male.

[–]Tokyogaikoku44 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Some good points, but I think this may not be possible.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Be attractive and confident unto savagery and it just sort of happens.

[–]Tokyogaikoku44 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Yeah, the confident part needs a lot of work. It's okay.

[–]Tokyogaikoku44 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm attractive, but I don't like all the psychotic games. I prefer loneliness.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Go on Facebook now and message the prettiest girl you know "You are an ugly cunt hahaha." Don't respond to her afterwards. Start practicing not caring. Breaking through the "am I doing this right" mindset, the "how can I be cool?" mindset and adopt the "The world is my video game and I do whatever the fuck seems fun" mindset.

Edit: I overstated my point but I'll leave it up anyway.

[–]Tokyogaikoku44 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think I'll get away with that one and I don't feel comfortable with that-- long story. The approach makes sense. Red pill theory is new in some respects to me and in others it's in line with my own observations about females. Will see how much of it I can implement. Will use what suits me. My default is not letting a woman dominate me socially at all. I'm willing to not have a girlfriend for that to happen... . Most my buddies who have been married have been destroyed.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Solid shit, dude. See also BlackDragon's blog. That's how it is, have an upvote. Aspies gonna hate.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He's a stud. I love his podcasts.

[–]lickmenow 1 points1 points [recovered]

For number 5, what if I want to have sex everyday?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

See your gf that much or spin some plates.

[–]Gunnilingus 0 points1 point  (1 child)

seeing girl twice a week both free to bang other people

This isn't really an LTR...its just a long term plate situation. That's really what you're advocating here.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If that's what I'm advocating then that's what I'm advocating. Plates don't really meet parents and friends, though. And I don't spend money on plates.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

To me, TRP is essentially the process of learning that everything is temporary. So therefore one is always developing a mindset and lifestyle to make the most out of that fact. Its depressing and relieving at the same time for someone new.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sounds more like the concept of impermanence in Buddhism than anything to do with sexual strategy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Think about it a little harder man. I think its pretty easy to see anyway.

When a beta comes here he learns: True love is fake. Unconditional love is fake. Friends with the opposite sex is a joke. No one likes you for anything but what you can give them. Your value is all that people care about you, not who you are or your 'personality'.

It may be similar to that but it seems like if someone realizes nothing is permanent in this world and really takes it to heart, all of the principles in trp manifest. No oneitis, abundance mentality, outcome independency, etc. You realize its only ever 'your turn' with a woman and nothing more. Any buddies you have you can drop at the flip aof a coin if need be and it wont bother you. Eventually you completely understand a woman's motives and thoughts, and you surpass every other bluebell who still thinks he can do abc to get women. Everything is crystal clear. You dgaf what people think because they are fleeting anyway.

This is how I interpret trp into one ideal a little better than: Don't give more than 0 fucks for anything in life other than yourself.

[–]hugaddiction 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All well said, and I had not heard the term "dread game", but I have been a fan of this shit since I figured it out at some point in my youth. No doubt from suffering on the wrong side of it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)


What is this?

[–]brinkleybuzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that LTRs can be great if done right. I also like most of your relationship tips. Disagree with this though:

Do not ask for or promise sexual exclusivity

Bad idea because (1) you should never offer any kind of commitment without the explicit promise of sexual exclusivity and (2) a relationship like this is based on a covert contract. Women need firm boundaries otherwise they'll take advantage of the situation.

[–]Juan-San 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Monogamy is not a goal, is a biproduct of actually applying TRP concepts into your relationship. If you dread her right, she'll give you her best, so you won't feel like you need any other woman.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points

[permanently deleted]

[–]nightmancommeth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am in an LTR (3 years) where I live with the woman and Dread works like a charm still. Anytime she does something I disagree with I withdraw and ghost her for the most part while at work and just dont say anything at home.

[–]3rt41 1 points1 points [recovered]

I do not agree with the fact that involuntary celibacy is worst than a bad ltr with a woman. I would mostly cut my dick entirely that let myself live in a bad ltr. Only possible scenario for being in a bad ltr is being a blue pill desperate fuck to the point that you do not step out of it for the fear of losing some little pussy smell, and no reasonable human being wants that to happen.

[–]Jorxcle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Going on the first vacation for 9 days with my LTR in a few weeks. Acording to you, not a good idea... Regardless, any tips on how to handle it, keep attraction at a high level?

[–]interestedplayer 0 points1 point  (1 child)


What is this?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you only have sex with a girl once every time you see her, you might have low T levels.

Trying to control whether a girl you're dating is seeing other guys on the side is a complete waste of time and emotional energy. I have been with many girls who weren't single. I have better things to worry about than making sure a girl I see is "loyal" to me. We're not talking about marriage we're talking about an open relationship, stupid ass.

[–]Tre_Walker 0 points1 point  (5 children)

.... farting on her is not disrespect

WTF? Is this a thing now? I read the sidebar but...?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I should write a post sometime about farting on girls. It's the best.

[–]1Entropy-7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you go for the "Dutch Oven"?

[–]saladon 1 points1 points [recovered]

I remember when Chateau Heartiste would write about the importance and symbolism of farting in front of your girl.

Me, personally? I am a stickler for cleanliness so I hate to do it even in front of male buddies. But when it happens, I make sure both of us can laugh it off.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I must have missed that entry of this. Heartiste is pure brilliance.

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