Red Pill TheoryLMR from your LTR: Never let a women decide when you DON'T have sex. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Senior Contributordr_warlock

Blog Article: http://www.redpilldoctor.com/lmr-from-your-ltr-never-let-a-girl-decide-when-you-dont-get-to-have-sex/


A guy on askTRP posted the following...

So I was celebrating NYE with my friends and we all brought our women. I was teasing my LTR the whole night.

Somewhere around 4 am I tell her to come with me and told her that I'm taking her where we can be alone. I grabbed her as she was saying he Oh yes , take me there .

We enter my buddy's bedroom and we hit it off. I start removing her dress and she spurts the shit test we all know , also stopping me.

Is that all I am to you?

I like your sandwiches too!

What? Be serious. You've been looking at me all night like all you want to do is sex.

Sure , but you should learn how to do lasagna.

Wow. Ass.

And she makes the bed, because no sex is happening. So I withheld intimacy.

She started shit testing me again.

Hey. Why are you not speaking.

Silence with a grin

Why are you so cold.

Told her she should start calling me frosty and I fell asleep.

I honestly don't know what happened. She was looking all horny and then this. All shit test passed but ended up sleeping in a bed where my LTR did not stop trying to cuddle me and kiss me? What is your take? What did I not do? What did I do wrong? All feedback appreciated.

Don't worry, you're not alone. I've been there along with millions of other guys. Let me lay it out for you.

What you experienced was LMR or (L)ast (M)inute (R)esistance. Usually, this is a specific kind of ASD or (A)nti-(S)lut (D)efense, but this time it's of a different breed because it has nothing to do with her image...

Why is She Doing This? What did You Do Wrong?

1) She lost attraction

For whatever reason, you no longer arouse her, but you're useful in other ways: comfort, security, and provisioning. Your SMV currency has loss its value and you must compensate for that with beta bucks. Or your SMV lost all its value and there's nothing you can do to compensate at all.

2) Powerplay

I listed this second because this could happen to anyone of any SMV. You didn't have to do anything wrong. All women eventually weaponize their vaginal gatekeeper position to pressure men into doing something for them. ALL women DO that.

Have you noticed that when women want you to act a certain way, they shame you with "you'll never get a girlfriend acting like that", or "not if you wanna have sex tonight" ? (Read: Glossary of Shaming Tactics on the sidebar). They never say you'll never get a good job, you'll get fat, they'll hurt you, or you'll never have fun in life. No, that's because a woman's sexuality is the only power she has. She will attempt to use your desire for sex as leverage for her own personal gain.

What Not to Do

1) Communicate

If you were like me (pre-TRP), you would have attempted to communicate and discuss her needs so you can come to a solution and implement it. But that would logical and efficient; women are neither. Remember: Communication is beta. It's also blue pill thinking because a woman will never tell you how to get into her pants. Most women also have no idea and can't pinpoint the root cause of their feelings and will give you superficial gibberish to rationalize her emotions and the actions that manifest from it.

"Never ask fish how to catch fish, ask the fishermen" - Patrice O'Neal

Attempting to solve the problem directly is an attempt at negotiation. Women's sexuality reacts to action and vibe, not words. Thus, you cannot negotiate desire.

  • Sidenote: Those two links are mandatory. You will discontinue reading this post, read them, then come back if you have not already done so.

2) Apologize

The first time I encountered this was over text. My girlfriend and I went to different colleges and tried to make the LDR thing work with Skype, text, and phone calls. I would send her long erotic messages of what I was gonna do to her when I see her again. My goal was to maintain the sexual attraction as much as I could from 4,792.10 miles away according to an online distance calculator. Initially she loved them and sent sexual banter back. But eventually, she popped the question:

Her: "Is sex all you think about? Is that all our relationship means to you?".

I immediately caved and apologized. I attempted to comfort her feelings. I wanted to be on her good side. I admitted I was wrong and promised not to do it again (barf).

  • edit: I encountered this a second time when she came back from college. One day she just wanted to "cuddle". Instead this time, I went to the other side of my room and worked on a project. She stared at me waiting for me to "stop my act", then got bored and played with her phone. I don't remember what happened after.

NEVER apologize for your maleness, your masculinity. NEVER apologize for your sexuality. You didn't do anything wrong by initiating sex when you wanted it. Apologizing for that is fucking beta. She WILL lose major attraction to you if you do this. Mind you that you could be completely in the wrong with women, deny all wrong doing, blame her for everything, and have her wanting you in the end. Women react more to the emotional vibes of your speech as opposed to the actual words themselves. Holding frame is key. Always hold frame.

If you cave and tell her what she supposedly wants to hear, you will be viewed as beta and she will just cuddle and give a kiss or two. Maybe even some duty sex. The very thing that allows her to extract resources is the very thing that turns her off when successful.

The Biggest Enemy is Thyself

When guys encounter this LMR, they become alarmed because...

1) Self-imposed Scarcity

You have no other sexual alternatives at the moment. You have this urge to fuck, but the only girl available isn't putting out. You didn't cultivate back-up options. You should always be flirting with other women on the side and have their numbers in your phone just in case (pursuit not necessary, just have them). You didn't do this and now you've become desperate. You will more than likely resort to 'communicating', negotiating desire, and apologizing in hopes of her changing her mind.

2) Blue Pill Mythology

Even if you had options (intentionally or unintentionally), you wouldn't even think to pursue other women because you''re stuck in a mental prison instilled in you by society. You have a subconscious door blocking you from considering it.

"Wouldn't that be cheeeating? Isn't that wroooong?"

So you're in a relationship where the unspoken rules are that you get pussy in exchange for some commitment, but she isn't putting out and the first thing that comes to mind is how can you work within the system that's not working to your benefit?

Let's put it another way. Let's say you did your 40, then upon payday, your employer decides to withhold your paycheck until your put in some overtime, and then maaaybe you'll get your money. You'd be like: "fuck you; pay me". If this became a problem and they didn't shape up, you'd look elsewhere for employment (along with a lawsuit).

"Oh b-b-but a relationship is different! It's about love, caring and understanding! It would hurt her feelings. That's wrong!"

Pussy. The girl that supposedly loves and cares about you is intentionally withholding your needs to screw you over and the first thing you think about is not hurting her feelings. Pussy.

What To Do

"How will you act when the girl takes the pussy hostage and puts a gun to it's head?"

  • Patrice O'Neal

The OP of the askTRP thread posted in the beginning attempted to bypass the LMR with humor. If the reason she's putting up resistance is because she lost attraction to you, no amount comedy will get you inside her. If she's just doing the normal power play, humor may work. If it does work, cool. However, if your humor or A&A doesn't work, or if it's based on insecurity, this issue will come up again, again, and again. There is no way around it. There is no magic PUA potion spell that will spread her legs. If you fail, tell her you've got to take care of some things and that you'll call her later. No explanation. She may get dramatic and may even outright say "is it because I wont have sex with you?" Don't take that direct speech bait. Just repeat the idk line, give her a kiss on the head and leave. Don't reply to texts or answer calls for the rest of the day. Then start pursuing other women (but don't tell her).

If you keep hanging out while removing your focus from her, she's probably gonna say "you've changed", "what's wrong?", blah blah blah. Translation: "why are you not giving me attention?" Never explain yourself, you cannot negotiate desire. Just say: "i dont know what you're talking about. DO NOT vent out your feelings so that you feel heard, she doesn't give a fuck. I repeat, she doesn't give a fuck. Actions not words.

Pursue other women. When a new woman does not allow escalation or a girl you've had sex with is not giving up the ass, the interaction has zero purpose. Sex is the foundation of all male-female interaction, everything else just builds off that. The second she starts playing these games, disengage in a non-butthurt manner, then start pursuing other women on the side.

Warlock's Law 7: Never let a woman have a monopoly on your sex life. Never let a woman get to decide when don't get to have sex (Warlock's Laws).

This is why marriage (economic/sex contract) today is a complete fraud. She is no longer obligated to put out, while you're still obligated to provide and retain fidelity. She can never have sex with you, have a full-time job, cheat, have another man's baby, initiate the divorce, and still take your shit and acquire alimony and backdoor alimony child support.

Dread game, although effective, is not good enough. 'Fidelity dread' while experiencing a sexual drought is still playing within her frame. You need to exit it entirely. She is entitled to choose who she fucks and when he fucks. She is entitled to her sexuality, but not yours. I'm not joking, this is not some internet alpha posturing: have sex with some other girl. A girl cannot expect exclusivity while not have having sex with you.

One thing you can do is take her out (which will uplift her spirit and think everything is back to normal), then use her as a pre-selection prop and subtly hit on other girls right in front of her. Deny all accusations of such actions: "You're being paranoid we were just talking." Yes, lie in the face of all evidence to the contrary. That's how the game is played. She may give an ultimatum or make a scene when this happens, in which case, [the relationship is most likely already over. If you placate to her whims or cave-in, los tingles are gone forever and you'll be beta in her eyes. She'll hold your hand and give quick kisses and hugs, but no sex, maybe duty sex (linked above). If you'd rather not deal with her, you can always soft-next her.

Bang other girls. There is no other option. You cannot negotiate desire. You cannot use logic and reason. She's playing games and she knows it. Look out for numero uno and don't care about her feelings. When women know that you care, they will eventually use it against you while not caring themselves. When women know you have values and stick to reason, they'll uphold you to that standard while not following it themselves.

I repeat, pursue other women. 'Cheating' doesn't matter. Don't dump her so you can bang strange 'guilt free'. You shouldn't feel any guilt because she has tried to screw you over. No mercy. No "take the higher road". That's blue pill thinking. It's part of the mental prison society attempts to instill in you. You are out for thyself. Anyone who doesn't contribute to that shall be ignored.

Will this tactic end things between you two? Possibly. But it doesn't matter because only the present matters. Presently, you aren't getting anything out of it (sex). Longevity doesn't matter because "Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association" (Briffault's Law). You're not losing anything except a burden at this stage. You'd be surprised how many women stay with a man despite 'indiscretions' when he does it with conviction and doesn't apologize.

Did I forget to mention pursue other women?


Never feel guilt or be deterred by shame for looking after your best interests.

Never be afraid to walk away from a situation that doesn't benefit you.

Never be a slave to the pussy.

Never feel immoral to succeed at the expense of someone else who wishes to screw you over.

Never let a woman have a monopoly on your sex life.

Never forget the game.

Being single is better than being a deadbedroom/duty sex beta bux, every time. The fact a relationship ends does not mean you did anything wrong. Even if you did, it's most certainly not the end of the world even though it may feel that way. Emotions are in constant flux, especially women's. This is not within your control. This is often just a natural progression in the sea of life. Women are fickle and difficult by design. It forces males to fight, clown, and provide against each other for the right to inseminate females, thus ensuring genetic diversity and only the most adapted reproduce. It's a win for her regardless of the victor. Do yourself a favor and be a higher-level being: don't be a slave to your genetic programming. She's not yours, it's just your turn.

Realize most relationships in life are temporary. They bud, bloom, then decay. Then another buds and the process repeats itself. They take their course, serve their purpose, then they dismantle. You can do textbook RP, and it will still happen. Don't attempt to retard this process. Delaying the inevitable will only result in prolonged dissatisfaction. This applies to friends, family, relationships, allies, plates... everything.

Nothing gold can stay.

The End

Recommended Reading

edit 1: Is Refusing Sex Grounds For A Soft Next?

edit 2: The ultimate shittest: witholding sex

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[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c 109 points110 points  (13 children)

I find it amusing that women think they can unilaterally re-negotiate the terms of the relationship deal ... and even more amusing that many men go along with it.

Nothing in this world is unilateral. Everything is transactional. If you are not playing the game, then you are getting played by it.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 59 points60 points  (6 children)

Women do this because the population is saturated with betas. Women are playing the numbers game because it works most of the time.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table 42 points43 points  (4 children)

When 9 out of 10 of the population will let you get away with it, it's not hard to imagine why women act this way.

[–]thawayred 36 points37 points  (3 children)

"we're not having sex tonight"

no honey, YOU are not having sex tonight. Dress up, take the keys, put a cologne and go out into night. There is 50% chance to salvage the situation when she will stop you in the doors.

But it still feels like negotiated desire. Isn't it?

[–]BrackOBoyO 23 points24 points  (0 children)

If you want to avoid all negotiated desire then don't let her stop you at the door

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 7 points8 points  (1 child)

But it still feels like negotiated desire. Isn't it?

The difference is between negotiated desire (having a talk to her about it, asking her to find you attractive) vs behaving in a way that is attractive.

It's like a fat girl saying "you should find me attractive otherwise you are sexist" (doesn't work) vs a girl getting in shape and behaving in an attractive way.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And yet they don't understand why they are all so fucking miserable all the time now. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. They have been feminizing men so they can control them, but then they can't stand anyone that won't control the world around them.

[–]interestedplayer 24 points25 points  (0 children)

deleted What is this?

[–]TheReformist94 12 points13 points  (0 children)

When a woman refuses sex,you just fuck another woman until she gets back in line again.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Nothing in this world is unilateral.

Oh, they are working very hard to make marriage that, aren't they. This is why it is so very, very important for all our young fellows understand--DO NEVER MARRY. She could be the most unicorny of unicorns, DO NOT MARRY her. It isn't about her. You. The goat next door. They are turning the entire system of marriage into something that gives them unilateral control over you, enforced by people with guns.

[–]BENDERisGRREAT 1 point2 points  (0 children)

theyre pushing for living together to count as well for alimony purposes I hear

[–]TheRedStoic 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Amusing yes, to those who have their shit in order.

The fact that it's so rampant in the 1st and Western world, that's a symptom of a massive failure.

It doesn't depress me, but it does make me happy to help in the exact right context. (Normally, 80% of the time, law 38 obviously)

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 67 points68 points  (21 children)

I don't understand the need for this cheating. If you're in an LTR, you should have picked a woman with high RMV. Using sex as a powerplay is a demonstration of low RMV... just next the bitch. What's the point in an LTR with a worthless bitch? You can spin plates instead. If you're a high quality man then you deserve better and won't tolerate such crap.

Weaponisation of sex is a massive red flag in my book... it'd get her demoted down my plate order at the very least.It certainly disqualifies her from being an LTR.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (2 children)

What's the point in an LTR with a worthless bitch? You can spin plates instead. If you're a high quality man then you deserve better and won't tolerate such crap.

Thing is, 80% of guys are not high quality men and can't spin plates. And since they can't spin plates, they just cling to any women who shows some interest in them. A man without options remains committed even when his girlfriend cheats on him, disrespects him and denies sex. A man without options is prone to developing oneitis, and then fails to see red flags, or ignores them. There's an extremely good submission called The Art of Whore: Why Betas Marry Leftovers that I keep in my bookmarks and read from time to time.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I am not talking about any man though. I am talking about a (supposedly) Red Pill man. Regardless of whether you have actually become top 20%, the theory dictates that you behave like you are top 20% in order to run effective game.

Your entire comment is a disengagement.

[–]harsha_hs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you are not top 20% of men, and continue to behave like rest 80% then you will never become top 20%.

I have seen girls who are 5/10 behave like they are prize and get away with it. If you stop by and clearly look they don't look any good. But they build some kind of charm with way they speak, dress etc.

Learn game and always try to maximize your value. Always be prize.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Weaponisation of sex is a massive red flag in my book

The issue is that every woman will try this, so if you hard next her for this you'll hard next every woman you date.

I'd suggest that she'll test this boundary (shit test), her bluff will fail, and she won't feel the need to try it again too often.

In which case stick with her. If it happens a lot or you can't get round it easily, it's hard-next time.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The issue is that every woman will try this,

I disagree. I think you've conflated LMR and weaponisation. All women will perform LMR at one point or another. That's a regular shit test. It's checking the mate is alpha rather than beta. Weaponising sex in order to try and force alteration to a man's behaviour is not a shit test. It's open rebellion to the dynamic that you've established. (Assuming it has actually been established.)

If she's got an alpha and believes he is alpha and holds his commitment... there's no need to reduce sex because she wants to have sex with said alpha to have offspring. The weaponising of sex has to be triggered by doubts about his alpha status. Then there's a difference between "are you alpha?" and "stop it. be a good beta or you won't get sex."

The difference is subtle. I reckon she's only still with him because whatever else she thought she might have on the cards didn't materialise. I'm not convinced that a woman would do these things for absolutely no reason... we just don't necessarily have all the facts on this one as to what started the shit testing. Everything we've created as theory on TRP fits together with cause and effect in all the different bits of game. I am not convinced that this one just comes from nowhere when we have reasons for shit tests, comfort tests, why dread works etc etc. I can look back and reflect on why I'm getting more shit tests from a girl and less from another. It's usually down to how tight my game has been and how strictly I've enforced the dom/sub dynamic.

As for this particular case: Did a more attractive man show interest? Did the boyfriend do something a bit beta? Has he been overusing A&A for some time and she's feeling like he might not be a natural? Perhaps something has been off with the dom/sub relationship dynamic and he hasn't been leading properly? I don't know the specifics, but an open rebellion doesn't just fall out of the sky for no reason. We're just analysing one small equation on the blackboard. I do not believe you can generalise it out that this particular part of game has no reason for happening and that all women will do it just because.

In all honesty I read his piece and just think that he fucked up his attempt to push past the LMR by using too much A&A and demonstrating he's only got one social tool in his box when she's demanding he show more. That's just my interpretation of the subtextual discussion. I could be wrong and it doesn't really matter all that much since my point was really more of an ask of the good Doctor's guide. I wanted to understand why the nuclear cheating option was there when my view was you should never have ended up in such a scenario in the first place and you certainly shouldn't be making any attempt to maintain it. But that's just me. Maybe my standards are too high and I will come back to this comment in 3-6 months and change my mind. For now though, I'm satisfied with my position.

[–]p3n1x 3 points4 points  (1 child)

To me, OP was trying to define a type of "male hypergamy". Go ahead and branch out instead of letting the conditioned term of "cheating" effect you emotionally.

I can see the part of keeping her around for some social proof (if you really, really needed that?), but I agree, you can't cheat if you have moved on.

Women know when they have lost position. They know when you are fucking or giving your attention to another. Some chicks alter their behavior, go back to the "crazy fun times" , but I have found the change to only be temporary and not really worth the investment.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Go ahead and branch out instead of letting the conditioned term of "cheating" effect you emotionally.

I don't have an issue with that. It just does not all logically follow for me. From my own reading I am convinced that cheating is a potential nuclear option for the married red pill guys.

This is because they have a legally binding commitment to that woman. An LTR is not legally binding. So just leave her. If she is a plate, then it's not cheating anyway.

None of this really fits together for me and seems like LTR game and plate spinning game have been conflated in some way.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (5 children)

If you're in an LTR, you should have picked a woman with high RMV.

But they change, don't they. The hamster whispers in her ear every night. You can't stop that fucker. The first night it says, "holy fuck, that was hot, I hope he rips me open again tomorrow night." A week later it says, "still hot, but I wonder if he knows any good hotels in Paris." A month later it says, "I think his arms are getting bigger. Woo. But where the hell did he get that shirt. My friends might see it." A year later it says, "ok, enough with the ass already, right. Maybe we should spend christmas with my parents." Three years later it says, "Fuck, ok, no more blowjobs until I get a ring..."

No matter how hot you are they will always move the goalposts of a relationship. They are born to try and lock down an AB.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Your argument is essentially that no woman has acceptable RMV? If we follow your logic that all women have the hamster whispering in their ear, reducing their RMV all the time... no relationship would ever be successful. I do not believe this holds to reality.

Some relationships are and many more are not. We need to focus on telling the difference between the two. So far, the best interpretation of the differences is our understanding of RMV.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 1 point2 points  (3 children)

no relationship would ever be successful.

Arbitrary criteria is arbitrary. If you expect to have the same relationship with a woman seven years in it simply will not happen.

You have kids? There is something that happens right about seven years old, though some kids are delayed and some are advanced. They will start showing interest in taking care of themselves, as in obtaining skills to survive on their own. I always found it fascinating that it pretty much lines up with "seven year itch" myth.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If you expect to have the same relationship with a woman seven years in it simply will not happen.

That wasn't my point. We know SMV changes over time and I wouldn't say that RMV doesn't alter. I do believe that it is probably more resistant to alteration than SMV, but the point is that it is an indicator of the long term chance of success of a relationship.

I've never really been a fan of the whole "arbitrary thing happens because it's arbitrary." I think that in these scenarios it is simply that we don't know the reason. Why do kids start trying to be independent at 7 years old? You could theorise I suppose, but I'm more convinced that there'll be a reason for it and we simply don't know the specifics rather than "it's just that way."

That's also not to say that any arbitrary observations are not useful either. They certainly are. However I think if we want to look at LTRs and the game used to be successful, we should probably work from the differences between successful and unsuccessful ones, prioritise this information and try to put as little down to random chance or arbitrary "this happens" as we can. It just makes more sense from a pragmatic perspective.

As a sidenote, are you in the depression stage by any chance? Was just flicking through your comment history.

[–]ModeratorPaperStreetVilla 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Life doesn't get easier, you simply get better.

It should either be improving, or go by the wayside, in place of something better

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We know SMV changes over time and I wouldn't say that RMV doesn't alter.

We know very well that over the course of our lives, SMV between men and women make different charts. Sometimes I wonder if evolution itself makes it so we break up like we do and it has only been socialization that keeps some people together as long as they are. It's a noodler. Nevertheless, relationships are inherently doomed, using an overly dramatic word. The only reason people stay together is because they force it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that; let's face it, our blue-pill forefathers had far more serene lives than we do.

Why do kids start trying to be independent at 7 years old?

Well we know why--children go through three distinct periods where their brains reorganize themselves. This is one of them. The question is why we evolved this way.

As a sidenote, are you in the depression stage by any chance?

Quite the opposite. We have a lot of young bucks here looking to deal with a painful breakup or figure out how to get sex. Those years are in my past. TRP has been where I finally understand why my life has been the way it is. A lot of people look at how humans act and calling horrid, ugly, disgusting and depraved. I see it as just how it is. It is neither good nor evil. It is neither hopeful nor hopeless. That is the awakening I think we all hope people have when they come here.

Go reread my comments an imagine me laughing while typing--it'll make more sense to you.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Having a regular attractive woman on your arm is one of the best ways to get other women (pre-selection). They come to you instead of the other way around. Trying to replicate this with a string of strange is very difficult and could cause a lot of drama.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You have LTRs for the purpose of preselection? From my perspective, this approach is more complicated. So are you suggesting that this guy's LTR is actually just his main plate? If that's the case then why didn't he just let her smash?

I'm really struggling to grasp the logic you guys are employing here. LTR game and plate spinning are two different things in my book, with different goals, different positives and negatives and different approaches needed to achieve success.

When I read his report, I thought he was just overusing A&A and maybe looked a bit gormless when he used silence because the subtextual conversation didn't match. This kept her pushing her shit tests... seemed like the occams razor for this one. Time passes, bitch comes back because she hasn't got anything better going.

So perhaps we are viewing this from different vantage points. I still don't see the point in having an LTR without wanting an actual LTR. I can use a plate for social proof if need be.

[–]BENDERisGRREAT 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe hes saying turn your LTR into your plate and use her to get several others spinning when she pulls this shit

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Also, why has the post been removed? You're SE. That should surely give you a pass?

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it was a blue pill report brigade.

[–]INTJokes 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What's RMV? I don't see it in the glossary.

[–]Senior ContributorNightwingTRP 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Relationship Market Value.

Sexual value and relationship value are two different things because a man will happily sleep with a woman who he'd never even remotely consider relationship material. We are primarily concerned with SMV because that's where the exchange of sex occurs. The exchange of commitment occurs in the RMP, or Relationship Marketplace.

[–]saladon points points [recovered]

Never negotiate with terrorists.

[–]interestedplayer 18 points19 points  (43 children)

deleted What is this?

[–]jameygates 4 points5 points  (42 children)

Why do you say that women have less worth than men? I don't get how that is redpill?

[–]1Paid_Internet_Troll 5 points6 points  (31 children)

Where exactly did he say that in his post? (Hint: He didn't).

[–]jameygates 10 points11 points  (30 children)

Um here:

"Negotiating gives our monkey brains the idea that we are equal on the ladder and therefore discussing as equals"

[–]genesisofman 2 points3 points  (29 children)

So you're saying he never said that and you emotionally reacted to his post? Sounds about right

[–]jameygates 13 points14 points  (28 children)

It's right there in the quote, dude. Put your head in the sand if you want.

I didn't 'react emotionally' to his post. I just found it a stupid ass thing to say.

I swear sometimes it's like a cult in here, you criticize one thing people start going "oh you're just a blue pill beta cuck and the problem is really with YOU"

Men and women are fundamentally different, yes. But why does that mean that's it's 'cool' to just constantly shit on women in this sub? It makes you all sound like bitter pussies.

[–]Gawernator 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Men and women aren't equal. We are different for better and for worse. You changed that statement to mean "women are worth less" which is entirely different. GTFO with your manipulation. You are a fool and nothing more.

[–]jameygates 4 points5 points  (5 children)

In certain regards men are better and worse in certain things, but men are not somehow 'all around better' and a women is still a person and is able to negotiate. The idea that it's impossible to negotiate with women because they are inferior is so so fucking stupid.

[–]1Paid_Internet_Troll 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It's not "impossible to negotiate with women because they are inferior."

It's impossible to negotiate with women because they see attempts to negotiate as an admission of inferiority, so any attempt at negotiation will leave a man wirse off than before.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Equality is not being better or worse. I laugh at people who preach equality. We aren't equal, no matter what your brainwashed narrative says that society has given you.

[–]genesisofman 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Men and women are fundamentally different, yes.

ah so you do get it. nice to see you're not a white knight

[–]jameygates 1 point2 points  (7 children)

No, I'm not a 'white knight' whatever the hell that stupid phrase means. However, anybody that hates women and is in a real sense misogynistic, like it seems like many here are, are fucking idiots.

[–]genesisofman 1 point2 points  (6 children)

he was just low key mocking feminism and fighting for equality and shit like that. no one is equal to anyone else. you aren't equal to me even though we both have cocks. for example: i could beat your ass, maybe you live in a better house than me. who knows

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Concern trolls will trolllolololol

[–]jameygates 3 points4 points  (2 children)

What are you even saying? As if 'concern' was a bad thing..? It seems like a real alpha dude would have some sort of substantive reply and not some douchy smart-ass comment. Everyone who has a criticism is by definition a 'troll'? Yeah, great way to reinforce your echo chamber.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

We actually have rules that you either ignored or are willfully disobeying.

See ya champ.

[–]1Paid_Internet_Troll 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Men and women aren't the same. They are different.

Is an orange "equal" to a tv remote? Is an avocado "equal" to a brick? Is an antellope "equal" to a 1989 toyota tercel?

No. They are different. Not the same. Not equal. Unless a Rhinoceros is "equal" to the engine block of a semi truck. Sounds fucking ridiculous, doesn't it?

As for "constantly shitting on women in this sub", do you not fucking realize that this sub instantly dismisses 80% to 90% of men as basically being worthless beta schlubs?

When discussing the TOP 10% to 20% of men who aren't worthless betas, then, of course they are viewed as not equal to the average woman.

How tge fuvk could the TOP 20% of men be equal to an average woman?

Turn on your fucking brain.

[–]jameygates 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The way you are using the word 'equal' is very misleading. Under that definition, technically nothing at all is ever equal unless two things are exactly the same. It's a mathematical use of the word. But you know as well as I do we are using the word equality to talk about social and political equality.

e·qual·i·ty noun the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.

I'm talking about this definition of equality, not the way you're using it.

So under this definition of equality, would you still maintain that men and women are not equal in worth?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Another issue with this community is cherry picking one piece of a post to discredit or dismiss the whole message. You are doing the quintessential "putting words I his mouth".

Not being equals has nothing to do with worth. I wouldn't say you're a beta cuck for not understanding that, I'd say your reading comprehension is poor.

[–]pehsxten 2 points3 points  (3 children)

IMO true alpha male red pillers lift, read, pursue goals and career and doesn't care if the world caters to him or not. But an average woman just has a nice looking face with nice boobs and expect everything from everyone. They also play the game to lose because winning is boring to them.

[–]jameygates 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Thats just not true at all. Men and women have had different evolutionary roles. They were predominately the "gatherers" in hunters and gatherers, took care of children and more domestic duties. Any anthropologist would tell you the role of women throughout history has been much more complex than just "having a nice pair of tits and a pretty face."

Men and women have fundamental different natures. (That in my opinion is red pill truth) but that does not mean women are not as valuable as men. Hell everyone has a mom, we need women.

[–]pehsxten 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Nowadays men do all those things by themselves. The only thing women provide is being able to have the child.

[–]BENDERisGRREAT 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He didnt, he said approaching a negotiation as equals in a bipartisan discussion leads to you asking for something, which is an inferior position. Hes talking about frame not worldly worth. This applies to negotiation among men as well, which is why we dont usually do it, and its high stress when we do.

[–]interestedplayer -1 points0 points  (3 children)

deleted What is this?

[–]jameygates 7 points8 points  (2 children)

"Negotiating gives our monkey brains the idea that we are equal on the ladder and therefore discussing as equals"

I'm not "offended" I just think what you said was stupid.

[–]MrExpress 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You're missing the point that a healthy red pill relationship is a leader/follower relationship. The follower is not "lesser" but she is not "equal."

[–]jameygates 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can still have a leader and a follower and still both have equal worth. I can't even make sense of what you said. If she isn't equal in worth as the man, doesn't that just logically mean she is either of greater or lesser worth?

[–]1RXRob 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You can negotiate with terrorists. You can't negotiate with a woman

[–]blastdoub1e 27 points28 points  (8 children)

Excellent post. Some great advice littered throughout.

I will say though that I disagree with communication being considered beta. Rather I believe over-communicating to be beta. You can be concise and direct with your communication to correct behaviors (eg. this is how it's going to be, or else next time <insert punishment here>) using operant conditioning. Especially for behaviors that the girl legitimately doesn't know would upset you.

Punishing a girl (via dread or otherwise) when she has no idea why she's being punished forces a girl to make assumptions about her behavior and can lead to her behavior being incorrectly conditioned.

Over communicating here would be continuing to negotiate with her after she continues to behave badly before even doling out the punishment.

This article from girlschase talks about operant conditioning in detail.


This is the type of thing that requires some effort and because of this I only do it for girls who I consider relationship material. If they're not then don't even bother, I just next them.

[–]Terdmuffin 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I've felt this same way but haven't seen it verbalized much here. There has to be a balance between letting them know they are out of line and not over communicating.

[–]Bulk_king11 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Glad someone said this. My LTR was wonderful to everyone else's eyes including her own. She thought she was being the perfect girlfriend and didn't understand why I would leave and go with other women.

It wasn't till I realized she was giving me things I didn't want or need. Instead of blowjobs and cooked meals etc. As soon as I told her this she does all those things for me and my relationship has been better than ever.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That site has some good material though it doesn't seem like it base on the the clickbait titles and images. Softer tone than TRP (expected), but still solid.

[–]Ripred019 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This strikes a good balance between communicating verbally and through action. The only part that is verbal communication is the initial (brief) explanation of the problem so that there is no confusion. In the case of positive behavior it's likely that an explanation isn't even needed, you could simply reward it or briefly express your happiness at the behavior and then reward. The rest of it is all action based communication. It's not a negotiation, it's not a discussion, it's an action taken after the intention to take the action is expressed.

[–]VigilantRedRooster 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Great work, Doctor! I'll definitely curate this in the sidebar of AskTRP.

I'll never forget the bitchy GF I had in my mid-20s; one night I reached out to caress her and she went, "Mmm-mmm!" like scolding a child reaching into the cookie jar. Attempting to communicate, negotiate, explain etc clearly consolidated power to her, and one guess as to whether you think young Blue Pill me managed to negotiate it back? Dread game, or in the case of her, letting her walk the next morning, would have saved me a wasted year with that broken person.

[–]plutorising92 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Great post. I'm a beginner but I thought I'd begun seeing posts where bluepill stuff was coming through. This post is what beginners like me need. I've read the sidebar and RM, going through IM now.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I thought I'd begun seeing posts where bluepill stuff was coming through

You did. It's been absolute shit since Christmas.

[–]Rufferto_n_Groo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even examples of that in these comments too.

[–]Joseph_the_Carpenter 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Good post, and I like the finality in it that says you must cultivate backup options. Like Blackdragon has decided I would not give advice to monogamous men. The first mistake most men make is they stop fucking other women, and then wonder when the beta behaviors come out why the sex starts to dry up. You either continue fucking other women or you put up with the eventual drama and pushback on sex. If you are monogamous then there is no advice to give: you want to have sex, she doesn't/won't, you cant fuck other women, she has your balls in a vice.

If a woman refuses me sex and she isn't sick or has other medical issues, that is an immediate soft next. I took up Blackdragon's advice and found that it works, to the letter. I've only had to do it once in the past year, and it's been all the sex I could possibly want (actually more than I could want, as the women want sex more than I want to).

Imagine that you could have more than all the sex you want and you're the one having to turn down sex because you're sexually drained or something's too sore. Most men wouldn't believe me if I told them they could have that, and here I'm reading other posts on TRP some bullshit about how to handle the sex in an LTR when she won't have sex.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's a good link. I'm adding it to the post.

[–]tifuwatchingnetflix 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I disagree that you cannot hold frame without fucking other women. As long as you remain in the mindset that you know that you can leave and find another at anytime, you can remain Alpha in an LTR and keep the tension indefinitely.

Long time lurker here... entered an LTR 3 months ago. If beta behaviors come out, that is the fault of the man. As long as you build the relationship on a strong foundation (never let her say no to sex, keep it clear that you can leave her at anytime) and continue to lay that foundation, she will remain attracted to you.

In fact, I think it makes you more attractive if you can hold frame for so long. 3 months in and she says I'm too tired at 4 o'clock in the morning, you say "I am going to take you right now, because you are my girlfriend, and if you don't satisfy my needs, I will find somebody else" and fuck her anyway, this sets you apart from her other LTR's that lose frame a week in.

Would love to hear feedback though.

[–]Joseph_the_Carpenter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"I am going to take you right now, because you are my girlfriend, and if you don't satisfy my needs, I will find somebody else" and fuck her anyway, this sets you apart from her other LTR's that lose frame a week in.

This is the right call.

I agree you can keep the tension there indefinitely, provided that 1) you don't move in with her, 2) continue spending time with her her sparingly (no more than 2 days/week, although Blackdragon says 1-2 days/week maximum). However,

Long time lurker here... entered an LTR 3 months ago

The frame you think you have at a whopping 90 days in will deteriorate somewhat, and even if it doesn't you will have drama issues.

That is not an LTR, unless you have been seeing (read: fucking) this girl longer and only decided 3 months ago she would be an LTR. You aren't even getting started on an LTR until at least 6-12 months. Anyone, even the bitchest and most awful women, can be a sex-positive well behaved kitten for a few months. It takes a while for the real person to come out. In fact, you are right around the due date for your first round of girlfriend drama. I'd bet money that within two weeks you're gonna have something happen.

Monogamy and it's issues are summed up better than me in (surprise!) a BD post on de facto monogamy:

If it makes you feel any better, many years ago I made this mistake myself. When I was first mastering these concepts, I was dating three different women, all of whom I liked. My least favorite floated away, then my second favorite floated away, leaving me with my favorite. I didn’t go get any new women because I didn’t feel like it, and I figured it would be fine. I could always go get some more later if I needed them, right? (Oh BD, you dumbass.)

After about three months of my de facto monogamy, guess what started to happen? Drama. She started getting snippy in ways no other woman had been before (when I wasn’t monogamous). Fortunately, I understood what was going on, so I nexted her ass (which was painful, because I really liked her) and quickly got three more women. That was early 2008 and I’ve never had that problem since, because I’ve never been monogamous since, de facto or otherwise. I learn from my mistakes and I don’t repeat them. The last time I’ve had to soft next a woman, for any reason, was almost two years ago.

(By the way, that woman came back to me, many times, including just last year. As usual, nothing was truly lost by nexting. This is why nexting is so much better than breakups.)

Always remember that if you ever get down to just one woman, and keep it at one woman because you’re being a lazy little bitch, you are monogamous. You are going to start getting monogamy drama and problems even if you’re doing everything else correctly, because you’re not following the most important rule of them all: never get sexually monogamous.

[–]throw17453 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Great post, I would add that if you have your shit together - you do not even need to lie about seeing other girls. Although neither should you overtly state it. Suggestivity, indirect communication and boundary setting can go a long way.

Liked the Robert Frost reference, all is transient...

[–]TyrannyVengeance 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Here is how I have handled it in the past. Smiled, and left the room, no contact when they then text me at some point knowing what they did. The convo goes something like this.

Her: I'm sorry I was tired the other night (name excuse it doesn't matter) I didn't mean to hurt your feelings (or whatever)

Me: Sorry?

Her: You know about the not wanting to have sex.

Me: Oh, I wasn't mad about that, that's why God invented porn.

I don't even bother re escalating, I either leave, and fuck another woman, or do something more interesting than pouting or barking up some snowflakes tree 50 times.

The game of life really is fuck or walk. IMO.

[–]stonepimpletilists points points [recovered]

Tis funny, you say dread isn't enough, then proceed to go past level passive dread.

Because that's all it is, deliberately and methodically removing yourself from a losing relationship, and into another one (or many) allowing enough time for the current girl to get her shit together and get back on board

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 9 points10 points  (7 children)

'(Fidelity) Dread' isn't enough. Using dread game while remaining loyal, isn't enough.

[–]interestedplayer 10 points11 points  (6 children)

deleted What is this?

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

The SMP was never meant to be fair. It's ruthless, unforgiving. Our sexual strategies are in direct conflict. One has to forgo theirs for the other's to thrive. It won't be me. I've never cheated (can't cheat if you're not in a relationship). But I would definitely do so if given the chance because I want variety.

[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I've found what works for me is just being straight up direct and honest with my partners. I tell them something along the lines of, "I'm in a relationship with you, but I want to bang other women, and I want you to participate with me."

It's had a surprisingly high success rate, but I suspect that it's primarily because I say it with such poise and confidence, that she can't really find a good reason to find fault with it. On top of that, it allows her to buy into the idea that she agreed to it.

[–]TheReformist94 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Women are fine being cheated on. They naturally form harems. they are taught to be upset when they get cheated on. Its more of a humiliation/spoilt child angry another kid is playing with their toy dynamic. Their actions show they're fine with cheating. I.e. knowingly sharing

[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree, and while I've observed that there is no real tendency for women to leave their cheating partners, I've found that it's more of a hassle to be caught than anything. When my partners know that I want to have sex with other women AND that I want them to participate with me, it polarizes them and it firmly establishes them in the (1) 'I'll go along with it' camp or the (2) 'no, I'm not down with it' camp.

An added bonus is that other girls that may not be firmly into me, are often well persuaded by my partner, and that helps me seal the deal on a lot of threesomes.

[–]TheReformist94 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Problem is this sub has an obsession with not condoning men cheating,because apparently men are meant to keep their world,have integrity and don't want to lower their behaviour to woman's level.

I cant tell you how many times I've been down voted for advocating cheating and not being upfront even tho women do it at the drop of a hat

[–]interestedplayer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

deleted What is this?

[–]beginner_ 8 points9 points  (1 child)

For me dread is the implication you could fuck other girls easily but not actually doing it.

Doing isn't dread anymore, it's actually "cheating" and I write it as "cheating" because if she withholds, what else can you really do? She lost attraction and it's over anyway or she actually is attracted, will look over you cheating and adjust her behavior.

[–]helgisson 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That link you posted to the communication piece is gold. I would add the caveat that certain types of communication are beneficial, but not in the typical bluepill way of thinking.

For example, one time I hooked up with a girl from Tinder and she slept over. The morning after, I was horny again so I started initiating when she woke up. At the last second, when I was on top of her ready to go, she got a weird look on her face and wouldn't let me go further - so I stopped, rolled off of her, and simply asked, "you alright? what's up?"

She said she felt bad about moving things too quickly, didn't want to be easy and just hook up so casually, blah blah blah. I heard her out and reassured her that it was totally fine. Within 10 minutes she was pulling my pants down to give me head, then we fucked more afterwards. However, if I had said something like "can we pleeease have sex??" I imagine it would not have gone as well.

The point being: when girls aren't in the mood, it's not always your fault. Hear out what's on their mind, don't beg or plead or negotiate, just ride her emotions out and she'll probably come around. If not, next!

[–]Daddie0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have dealt with hearing "All You Want Me For Is Sex" from my wife for years, until this last year when I started to stop my BP behavior. IDGAF if we have sex or not now and it has thrown her for a loop, and ironically she wants it more. I really don't think it's because she desires me, it's more like it was her control over me, but she is realizing it's not working anymore.

Found the following on a web site a while back.

“All You Want Me For Is Sex”

There are so many good comebacks to this one, but the best one I’ve ever heard came from a marriage counselor. One woman made that accusation against her husband in couple’s counseling: “All he wants me for is sex. To him, that’s all I’m good for.” The counselor shut that down with a simple question: “If that’s true, why would he even stay married to you, since you don’t have sex?”

This is one accusation that, when you look at it, actually has no force behind it; it’s merely an attempt to push away the spouse who is being refused and make them the guilty party. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with your husband or wife. It’s natural, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with your spouse.

Do you know what is not natural? Not wanting to have sex with your spouse. As I sit here, thinking and writing, it seems that it is only right to return the question: “Just why do you want me? Why do you want to be married to me?”

Father to our kids? Okay, but what about when they’re grown and gone? You love me? Funny, but I don’t feel loved. I feel ignored, unloved and undesired. So, just why do you want me? You accuse me of wanting you only for sex, but why do you even want me?


The other two things I heard from my wife:

"We just had sex..." “You’re a sex addict!” “All you ever think about is sex!” Haven't heard this one in quite a while, but it has been said to me in the past.

When I read that article, I was struck by how all three of the tactics that are used by adulterous spouses that make up the term DARVO are used by refusing spouses when defending/denying sex in marriage.

Denial? Yeah, how ‘bout “What do you mean we don’t have sex? We just had sex last week?” (This was reported by a husband whose calendar showed that it had been a couple of months.) Attack? “You’re a sex addict!” “All you ever think about is sex!” Reverse Victim Order? “All you want me for is sex!” “All the things I have to do (kids, work, laundry), and you want to make me do you too, Mr. Insatiable?”

Got this advice from another married guy who went through this shit.

"All you want is sex." I sat there a moment silent, then looked straight in her eyes and said, "No, I want a whole lot more than that. I want intimacy, closeness, affection, and connection...but all I can seem to get is sex."

That was a pivotal moment. I explained that I can take care of sex by myself, but I can't take care of the other things myself. I also explained that if all I wanted was sex I would have married someone who wanted it as much as I did and I certainly wouldn't have hung around this long with a person who didn't. So no, sex is not all I want. Not at all. But it's all I can seem to get from her. Without that, I might as well be living with my sister. And I'm not going to accept that either. Get all in, or get all out. But stop wasting my time.

The last couple of sentences are gold, you have to say it and mean it, line in the sand / scorched fucking earth and no going back.

My advice to single guys going through this shit? Don't put a ring on it, and dump her and find someone who wants to fuck you.

[–]shnblaze points points [recovered]

You didn't cultivate back-up options. You should always be flirting with other women on the side and have their numbers in your phone just in case (pursuit not necessary, just have them). This is a point I've been struggling with and can't figure out. Can you elaborate more on having back-up options in LTR? How do you keep someone attracted without pursuing them?

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

1) When you get a girlfriend after having flirted with other girls, some of those girls that you flirted with but never had success with will suddenly show more obvious interest and pursue you. Get their number and text/call them every now and then. Preferably just answer her calls, not you call her. Don't be afraid to tease her, touch her, and make it subtly sexual.

edit: Girls with boyfriends do this with other guys in staggering numbers.

2) When a girl asks if you have a girlfriend, the answer is always yes.

[–]p3n1x 3 points4 points  (0 children)

2) When a girl asks if you have a girlfriend, the answer is always yes.

Also, the more arrogant the "yes" , the better.

[–]Moneyley 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You should always be flirting with other women on the side and have their numbers in your phone just in case (pursuit not necessary, just have them).

You said it perfectly right here. There's a lot of powerful subject matter in the post, but THIS right here is a MUST DO if you're in a LTR. I used to believe "gotta keep complete loyalty". I would try not to flirt with other women, be disengaging with some and probably rude to others. All because I wanted to be a perfect gentleman to my LTR. We ended up going our separate ways and a few years later I ended up in another LTR and immersed myself in trp. By then I had amassed at least 4 steady solid plates. By stead or solid, I mean that they were ready to put out for me in as soon as an evening to no more than 2-3 days. One evening we got in an argument, probably didnt wanna pass her shit tests (seriously I no longer even waste my time trying to pass them) I just left. Didnt say a word.

FF to next day: she texts "what are you doing?" At this point I had already text another regular plate and was flirting with her, she was flirting back and the possibility was open to me having her. IMO (i think this is OUR version of the FEELS) I didnt necessarily need to fuck the plate but it was the feeling of power that I could if I wanted, that really got me to thinking. I got back to my LTR later that evening, nothing big, just replied. I didnt engage in anything conversation (you no longer feel the need too, you can get sex elsewhere) but I text a few other plates.. some light conversation, some light sexting. Again, just to reaffirm that I can do this. Total powertrip! After 3 days my LTR caves in and decides to "talk" . Bro's! I gotta tell you that your essence changes....you literally DGAF about what her feelings are at this point. All your looking for is for her to say she misses you and then show you why shes not just a plate for you. Once you amass your plates, you can even be brazen enough to flirt with other women in front of her. If you get a giggle from them or a smile; you just made your LTR either forget what she wanted to be mad at you for or want to straight take you home for sex. Personally, I dont go out and actively try to cheat but its knowing that I have back up plans in case any woman wants to go on a "feeling" tirade.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Best post on TRP in quite a few months. Feels fucking bad when you recognize yourself in these situations. Especially the "you've changed bullshit", "not today, we just had sex last week". I used to be able to massage, foreplay my way through that but the resitance grows. Allways, even when relations are rosy and great, allways have options. The minimum ammount of women in your life should allways be 2, even if you are only involved with 1 for a long time.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

"not today, we just had sex last week"


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They are amazing manipulators unless you are privy to TRP truths! It starts out at "oh no we cant do it again, i'm sore from this morning" and a year later she has increased the time penalty to weeks.

[–]homelessWOOKIE9 2 points3 points  (1 child)


What is this?

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 2 points3 points  (1 child)

[–]Cartz1209 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I know I will be rowing against the tide here, but what about:

We enter my buddy's bedroom and we hit it off. I start removing >her dress and she spurts the shit test we all know , also stopping >me. Is that all I am to you? I like your sandwiches too! What? Be serious. You've been looking at me all night like all you >want to do is sex.

Reply: No, I really like you babe otherwise I wouldn't feel so attracted to you.

Wouldn't a line like this be enough to put a smile on her face and proceed to happy land?

Now some of you may say "No, she would continue with her shit tests", to which I would simply reply with just one more line:

Reply: You know you are special, or I wouldn't be with you. Where is all this coming from now?

Rhetorical question. It really doesn't matter what she replies back. From here if things didn't evolve then I would do as OP did. But sometimes girls do think they are just being used for sex, which is true in a lot of cases, also true is that a little lie to comfort them keeps things going smoothly.

[–]GoonerGrande 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I never comment on any red pill post ever but Christ this was so well written. 10/10

[–]SlyAM 4 points5 points  (15 children)

I no longer feel bad about cheating, Thanks Doc! Good post though, keep it red.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 14 points15 points  (13 children)

If you do cheat, do it with conviction. Don't go through that bullshit emotional consideration process so that you can tell yourself that you attempted to be moral and feel good about yourself. Just do it. You're doing it because your a man that likes having sex with new women and you're horny. No apologies, no excuses, no confessions.

[–]theredpill1000 10 points11 points  (11 children)

Your reading to much red pill, brother. I ´m all the way by your side on your article about not giving fucks anymore of she withholds sex. But your statemant above, reads like a fucking Huffington-Post-Article (You go girl, cheat if you want! He has no right over your body blablabla).

If you do agree not to cheat, don´t cheat!

[–]Funghoulo points points [recovered]

I agree with you brother. If you want to sleep with lots of women, you shouldn't get into a LTR. That's why we always recommend staying out of LTRs and balancing plates.

When you enter a LTR, you and your partner agree to be faithful to each other. There's nothing manly or alpha about violating an agreement you made; in fact, it will just burn bridges and show others that you don't keep your word.

[–]p3n1x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or simply have the balls to tell her you are not monogamous. She can stay on the ride or get off. LTR your ass off.

Some of you guys need to remove the correlation between "Relationship" and "Monogamous" .

you and your partner agree to be faithful to each other

Don't do this. You have no need to. It is oneitis and is for her benefit, not yours. Hypergamy will fuck you hard because your dumb ass believes there is an actual "agreement".

[–]1sailorJery 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If you agree not to cheat, you're in a relationship, and relationships have expectations, like regularly available sex. If she withholds that, she's violated the agreement.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Still new to this whole girl thing.... Aren't you.

Thanks for the comedy.

[–]Geleemann 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's crap. If you're in a LTR - no cheating. Period. Otherwise demote and call it off

[–]BlackJ1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not "cheating" if the other party does not comply to the terms/conditions of the relationship.

It's your commitment for her sex. If she withholds sex the contract has been broken and there is no such thing as cheating.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My girlfriend and I went to different colleges and tried to make the LDR thing work with Skype, text, and phone calls. I would send her long erotic messages of what I was gonna do to her when I see her again. My goal was to maintain the sexual attraction as much as I could from 4,792.10 miles away according to an online distance calculator.

My first roommate at college went through this as well. After a few months, his girlfriend would start replying to his messages less and less frequently. He started panicking that he's "losing her", and started calling her and messaging her like crazy. She eventually went radio silence. Later he found out though mutual friends that she branch swinged. Break phase exists, but it usually doesn't take long before they start riding CC.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Dread game, although effective, is not good enough.

100% agree Dread game is not enough justification to get married. It is just enough to STAY married if you already made that mistake. At least some of the time anyway.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can't dread or out-alpha the law.

Once you buy the cow and perform your obligations, you shouldn't have to put up with any nonsense. Exclusive, regular access to the pussy are the terms of the agreement.

[–]MadeSomewhereElse 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Any reason this got deleted? I was going to come back and read this when I had some time.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

and /u/Appleseed12333

It was report brigaded by the bluepill sub. Automod then removed it. I messaged the mods but it seems they're not active at the moment. You can view the thread on my blog...


It's missing two recommended links and a minor edit included in the TRP version, but is good for now. I'll update it later.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The guy in the example was just being a flippant idiot. Communication is not beta. You can't command without communication, and cowards don't speak up when they should.

[–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Commanding and Whining are the same thing to you?

Never complain to a woman about your "feelings". Do you want to fuck your mommy? Cuz thats how you turn a chick into your mommy.

[–]hvdesisagod points points [recovered]

Although I agree with this, sometimes women withhold sex for different reasons, that actually make sense, so you should probably be more attentive.

As an example, my actual girl wont easily let me touch her if she didn't shave.

One of my exes wouldn't let me get anywhere close to her vagina if her period was on it's way, and then 3 days after, mainly because of the putrid smell.

You get the idea.. insecurity also has a play in this.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMeat-on-the-table 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I want you to re-evaluate your statement and ask yourself what underlying convictions led you to believe it needed putting down. The answer may surprise you.

[–]interestedplayer 14 points15 points  (0 children)

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

man, don't buy this. she's not attracted and found an excuse. whether it's not shaving or being on her period, you still fuck. you make that shit work.

also, if she smells when she's on her period, either she's manufacturing an excuse that isn't real, or she has something seriously wrong. it's just blood... not a dead skunk. i've fucked many chicks on their period, especially because many girls get crazy horny on their period. you just wrap it up, turn the lights off, and put down a dark towel.

[–]p3n1x 2 points3 points  (1 child)

my actual girl wont easily let me touch her if she didn't shave.

Get your shit together. Why isn't she prepared? Why? Because she is complacent with you and knows you won't do shit about her laziness. She is lazy because you are too.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (42 children)

I grab women by the face and throat early when sex isnt yet routine and Fem-weaponized and I tell her that her pussy now belongs to me and she has no right or option to ever say no to me again

[–]D33M1NU5 93 points94 points  (1 child)

wow you guys are really fucking pathetic

[–]greenkingwashere 24 points25 points  (2 children)

I find solace in the fact that virgins like you will never reproduce

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Wrong! I fucked a cactus and it bloomed

[–]BushyDio 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah you're never gonna get laid lmfao

[–]SureAsSteel 31 points32 points  (2 children)

Yeah, this is incredibly sexist and kind of scary....most of the guys on this sub are probably virgins anyway.

[–]BushyDio 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Probably is giving them too much credit

[–]Jake314159265359 4 points5 points  (1 child)

In this sub: Horny virgins trying to be edgy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

or soft weaklings using satire to feel good about their low t lives

[–]lodro points points [recovered]

Yeah...that really wasn't the point of this post man. You should read the whole thing.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (17 children)

you are so conditioned to see dominace as evil you are equating it with rape

[–]lodro points points [recovered]

That isn't the case. You're too committed to winning ego points to have a constructive dialogue.

[–]jameygates 9 points10 points  (9 children)

And what is the difference?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (6 children)

Jesus, what the hell are you doing here? You are as blue pill as fuck. What is the difference between being dominant and rape? Just go and read the side-bar before commenting again, because at the moment you are completely out of it. If you are not dominant (= masculine) with your women, then you are her bitch and she will play you all the way down. Rape is non-consensual sex. Being dominant, rough even, is not non-consensual, it is what causes the tingles in the first place. You aren't being dominant to your women, then they see you as a pussy. They want you to be in control, to be dominant, not their little lapdog eager to please. Jesus, fucking clueless.

[–]jameygates 23 points24 points  (4 children)

Here is what he claims he said:

I tell her that her pussy now belongs to me and she has no right or option to ever say no to me again

If you're taking away the option of her to say no, then there is by definition not any consent.

If so funny how fast you automatically scream "blue pill!" whenever your opinion is even criticized, like jeeze can you argue without throwing a tantrum?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

There has been an awful lot of blue pill thinking recently, and you are full of it. Yes, you tell her that her pussy belongs to you, I did exactly the same and she loved it, feeling that she 'belongs' to you. Does that make it rape? Of course not, if she says no, then as OP says you just go out and find someone that doesn't, because she can say no for herself but not for you. That is the exact opposite of rape, you are respecting her decision but not allowing her to decide for you. You play rough, but if she really wants to leave or not have sex you aren't forcing her. Have you seriously never dominated a woman? Then you are by definition a pussy and not a man in her eyes, don't fool yourself otherwise. Yes Means Yes was meant for you.

[–]jameygates 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I agree with everything you said there, but saying 'you aren't allowed to say no' is too far in my opinion. Call me a 'blue pill cuck' all you want, I don't give a fuck.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OK, but 'you aren't allowed to say no' is an ambiguous statement, I'm not sure what you mean (and I don't see that statement in this thread or in OP's post). She is allowed to say no, but she can only say no for herself, she can't say no for you. If she doesn't want sex that is fair enough, her choice, but you should never put yourself into a situation where she can just deny a man's basic biological need whenever she wants to. We all know that there are times when this is both genuine and reasonable, eg if she is ill and in pain. I don't think anyone here would say in that situation that you just walk out on her, if she has otherwise been well behaved and held up her end of the relationship. But if you are in a relationship then sooner or later she will start denying you, either because she has lost attraction for you or because she is playing a power game. Either way, I agree with OP and you need to keep options open. Obviously, being married means nowadays that she can do that but you don't have the option, which is why marriage is no longer a contract that any man should sign. But in other relationships, handing over the power over your biological needs is stupid, because she will abuse that power, it is in women's nature.

As for dominance, you are not acting against her by being dominant rather than her 'equal' as feminists like to pretend you should be. That is part of the blue pill misinformation campaign and to be ignored if you want good relationships.

[–]RedMoonAscendant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You fail at simple logic. She can walk away and never see him again.

[–]RedMoonAscendant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Rape is when a beta tries to be dominant.

Dominance is when an alpha acts alpha and the woman recognizes it.

[–]Catsic 1 point2 points  (3 children)

No it's just creepy. That sort of conversation happening before sex is creepy, regardless of the fact that you're grabbing women you hardly know by the throat whilst doing it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

generally I grab em during sex and tell em this so you are right.....before sex isnt ideal. dont know if Id call it creepy and I bet it still works

[–]stonepimpletilists points points [recovered]

On any of this stuff, if you watch, you can actively see tingles applied in real time.

Did that this morning, while waiting for the elevator at home, works like a charm!

[–]Slidinginsocks 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You have an elevator at home?

[–]interestedplayer 6 points7 points  (6 children)

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

any downvoters never tried anything like it out of fear

[–]manakiii 2 points3 points  (3 children)

maybe there are people in this world that don't have the same tastes as you? maybe?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

see my last comment to the No T crybaby

Ill continue using RP tactics whether you approve or not. It works and I dont care how you feel about it and I don't need your permission

[–]manakiii 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don't care about what you do. you're just wrong to think that everyone likes that

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

maybe I dont care who doesnt like it. more do than dont so Ill play the odds and if some dont like it and leave ...they are easily replaced

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (8 children)

This post is fucking retarded.

Your 2 years girlfriend you love with all your heart doesn't feel it tonight? Fucking cheat on that whore! YOU deserve pussy!

Women aren't sex objects, they have feelings too and it's okay for her to not feel it a few nights. Of course, if she doesn't not want to have sex anymore and you have a problem with it and communication won't solve the problem, then break up... But what is that retarded "communication is beta" bullshit?

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Your 2 years girlfriend

Glad you brought this up. This is directly related to the "1) She lost attraction". Longevity (anything past the honeymoon phase) is often the cause of loss of attraction (specifically women). People get comfortable, you become in tune with their life patterns. Things get predictable. You've done every sex position in every place. You know each other's bodies inside and out. The spark is diminished and boredom sets in. Unlike women, men's value is mostly from attributes other than his physical appearance, thus more heavily (negatively) affected by longevity. In other words, women's SMV does not diminish much from longevity (excluding old age and fatness).

doesn't feel it tonight? Fucking cheat on that whore! YOU deserve pussy!

There's a clear difference between "i don't feel it tonight" and what I'm talking about. I know bullshit when I see it. If it's being used as a 'weapon' or because she lost attraction, I'm out, regardless of the longevity. Regardless of how it makes her feel. This isn't an act of hate. Cursing, calling her a whore, and other insults are ridiculous and would be beta. I'm just redirecting my attention elsewhere.

Women aren't sex objects, they have feelings too and it's okay for her to not feel it a few nights.

False. True. True.

Women's primary function is sex, babies, child care, busy work and menial/repetitive tasks. This isn't an insult either. She's not their for confidence, leadership, strength, or emotional stability. That's what the man's for and she desires it. Women just don't like it blatantly stated. We in TRP speak directly to get the message through the people who aren't naturals. As far as the relationship goes, if she's not putting out regularly, none of those other functions listed matters, they're only compliments.

But what is that retarded "communication is beta" bullshit?

Did you read the link?

1) The reason this communication is taking place is because you are trying negotiate desire. Not possible and isn't sexy. To negotiate desire is to blatantly show that you didn't have what it takes to invoke arousal in her (Relationship counseling is the ultimate beta move). You're saying, "why won't you have sex with me? Let's discuss this so we can solve the problem and get you turned on again." Arousal and a healthy dose of insecurity solves most relationship problems because turned on women who don't feel completely secure love serving their man and go to great lengths to keep him happy.

2) Attempting to communicate problems assumes she didn't know what she was doing. Women disrespect, withdraw attention, and instigate on purpose knowing it will cause problems because they like drama and for tingles and giggles. Often times women do shit just to hear a man put her in her place. For this reason trying to 'communicate' and solve these actions doesn't make sense. You use your actions, not your words (i.e. commands and operant conditioning)

[–]Rhoic 5 points6 points  (5 children)

"Women's primary function is sex, babies, child care, busy work and menial/repetitive tasks."

Unless of course they're unable to have kids, don't want to have kids, are educated and or have a real job.

Seriously dude, get some perspective before you try to bring someone into your life. You shouldn't expect women in a developed nation to fit into your autistic 'mammalian' model because it's only holding you back. You may not agree because this frame is getting you laid, but it's only a crutch if you have to view women as inferior to you in order to feel dominant in a relationship.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I have a perspective, you just don't like it. They can fit into my model, just gotta cut out the excess fluff (stuff I don't care about). If she's hot, education and work is a waste. Her efforts are better focused on sex and babies. My sex and babies to be specific. Whether or not they are educated or financially successful doesn't factor who I want to be with. I don't want her money, or her brains (got my own). Intellectual conversation forces a woman to use her cerebrum faculties, way away from the primitive sexual regions of her brain. It's counterproductive to my goals. Anytime not spent in a physically intimate manner bores me out of my mind. She isn't useful to me outside that capacity. I can do everything except sex by myself.

You may not agree because this frame is getting you laid

It's the only frame that matters.

I don't view women as inferior just to feel dominant, I truly believe it. That is not just internet posturing. They are inferior, but complimentary. And they like it that way. Uniforms, adult clothing, shaming, and propaganda try to trick to think otherwise, but it doesn't fool me. It doesn't change with age either. Most people take the word inferior to mean abuse and gendercide, nah. I'll give you an example...

[–]Rhoic 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You call that a perspective as though it was cultivated. You were born with that frame. It's called Aspergers.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Most certainly not born with it. I used to be a beta virtue signaling SJW: LGBT, women's rights, treat your girl like a princess, fight the corporations, you name it.

[–]2kez88 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right with all your points on dread game, dead bedroom, women weaponizing sex etc, however I think you were wrong to use the example from AskTRP which prompted this post. Personally I think the guy example in the AskTRP either failed a comfort test or something similar and messed up with his LTR which is why she didn't fuck him.

Your post is however, correct, if your current LTR is constantly doing this to you. once every few months etc is fine imo

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow, you got it all wrong, because, understandably, since one is talked about way more often than the other, you mixed up shit test with COMFORT TEST. What you suggest is the POLAR OPPOSITE of what the situation asks for, this was the one instance where you were supposed to take care and actually be nice.

Of course, if a girl just refuses sex, all that applies, and you laid it out well, but in this instance, all he had to do was say sth sweet.

[–]Ozymanberg 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nice post. Agree 100%. I used to make the awful mistake of looking butthurt when she wouldn't put out and then got surprised as to why she wasn't into me.

I have one question, though: How do you deal with a woman who sets the precedent of "we can't fuck" from the beginning without me seeming butthurt? I guess the go-to would be to go on the date anyways, escalate and if she seems into it, go for it. Any insight on this? Thanks.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You assume ASD and keep escalating until you can't anymore. "You don't have to do anything you don't wanna do." There were some recent field reports on how to bypass it with an "emergency condom".

[–]Fedor_Gavnyukov 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that scenario is some immature high school shit. either that guy is still in high school with his "girlfriend" or he needs to sit back and really ponder on who the fuck he's dating.

[–]noobonyoutube_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holy shit that story about the guy who was depressed and then pulled himself out of it, he is the chosen one! And he even did it without fucking other girls

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I found that communication works well, actually. If she's honest, and you're not a beta bucks, she'll actually tell you what she wants and what she likes, instead of you playing the guessing the game. You know you're being played for a fool if she just says, 'Everything is fine, baby. Now let's go watch Teen Wolf together and cuddle.' In a woman's world, nothing is ever that simple. For instance, I was getting used to just grabbing her and ripping off her clothing when I wanted sex. This worked for a while, but then even this approach got old for her; after years of being in a relationship, she starts to feel used, even by an alpha. We weren't having as much sex as I wanted. Rather than play dread (which does work by the way, but you can also use other strategies; this isn't either or - ) I simply told her I'm not completely happy with our sex life at the moment, and let's talk about how we can improve it. I didn't approach her with tears in my eyes or with anger in my heart, I approached her calmly and confidently. She basically told me she wants me to warm her up more instead of just sticking my hand between her legs and carrying her off to bed. Ok. Fair point. You have to adapt sometimes. I listened, and the next time we were together, I initiated with a make-out session which led to oral sex and then sex.

Don't discount communication, but don't let it be your only tool in your tool chest. You should have seen how wet she got and what lengths she went to in order to lock me down after I told her a girl was interested in me at the gym.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

'Everything is fine, baby. Now let's go watch Teen Wolf together and cuddle.'

Any communication from this scenario isn't good because it 100% means she lost attraction. To 'communicate' with this means negotiating desire ==> 'beta communication', what I referred to in the post.

She basically told me she wants me to warm her up more instead of just sticking my hand between her legs and carrying her off to bed.

I'm differentiating 'communication' (former) from communication (latter). Society conflates the two.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm differentiating 'communication' (former) from communication (latter). Society conflates the two.

Unless you have experience, it's very hard to differentiate the two. For a young guy in his teens, it's almost impossible, and you just have to trust your gut. If you're not getting the poon, and instead she's texting her "guy friend" behind your back, you gotta go with your gut and dump her.

[–]Appleseed12333 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where did the post go? I saw nothing wrong about it. What's up?

[–]otis257 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Blue Pill Mythology" love that term made me LOL so hard. XD

[–]purpleflyingmonkeys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea, she just wanted you to say "I also love your personality". She needs the emotional component to get off. You should just say what she wanted to hear so you could have sex and move on. Don't you get tired of overthinking simple human interactions because you're scared people are undermining your dominance?

[–]juliusstreicher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd like to offer up a different interpretation: I'm thinking that our hero fucked up. The way I read the scenario, the girl was either offering another shit test (he only had two before he dropped his bomb) , or she was teasing him, waiting for him to pick her up and toss her onto the bed, and fuck her silly. I mean,

a. It was fucking new years ,

b. She let him waltz her into a fucking bedroom,

c. She was bending over the bed, ostensibly to arrange it,

d. She is his LTR, after all,

e. "You've been looking at me all night..." sounds to me like an invite to some dirty talk.

I am all for Dread, Soft Nexting, Hard Nexting, etc...if even remotely appropriate, but, to me it's just too, too obvious that the lad fucked himself.

Could be wrong, tho.

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