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FitnessThe Ultimate Diet Guide: From Bulking to Cutting (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by VinDecent

For the last few years, I have experimented with almost any diet you can think of. From paleo to intermittent fasting, I’ve tried them all. Below are my findings and suggestions. The way I view things, there are only three goals I can have when dieting: gaining muscle mass, maintaining body composition, and losing fat.

From my experience, you cannot gain muscle mass while cutting, but you can maintain muscle mass while cutting and stay at a stable level of fat while packing on mass. Please keep that in mind when reviewing these diets. If you’re training properly, all of these diets should have a place in your arsenal at some point.

The Slow Carb Diet

Popularized by Tim Ferriss, this diet is extremely simple. Each meal should consist of one protein source, one or more servings of vegetables, and a serving of legumes. The idea is to limit your intake of carbohydrates to sources with a low glycemic index (beans) in order to keep insulin levels stable throughout the day.

This diet is one of my favorites for maintenance and clean bulking because of its east. You can hit up any Chipotle or mexican joint and get a massive meal for ~$8 that aligns with your macros. It can also be used for cutting by slowly tapering off the servings of legumes per day.

With lean protein and fiber from the vegetables and legumes, your hunger is often kept in check. The foods you eat while on Slow Carb can also be really affordable and convenient. Head to the store and stock up on black beans, eggs, refried beans, spinach, and ground beef and you’re pretty much set for the week.

This diet also calls for a cheat day once a week where you can go crazy, pounding beers and eating donuts until you puke.

Good for: people just starting to diet, maintenance, bulking, fat loss (if you’re > 15% BF)

Bad for: losing the last few pounds of fat

CarbNite or Cyclical Ketogenic Diet

CarbNite (Cyclical Ketogenic) Diet is a diet that revolves around ultra-low levels of carbohydrates (<50 grams) on a daily basis with a cheat night incorporated once per week. By eliminating carbs from your diet, your body transitions from burning glucose as fuel to ketones. Ketones are produced by breaking down fat from food sources and your fat stores on your body.

This diet works wonders due to the fact that your body literally turns into a fat burning machine. Low carb diets are easily the best for cutting weight while sparing muscle; they’re what bodybuilders use to get in peak shape weeks before shows. On this diet, you completely cut out any direct carbohydrate sources and focus largely on eating tons of fat with protein around 1-1.5 grams per pound of body weight. Then, one night per week (preferably after a workout), you go hard as a mofo on sweets, potatoes, tortillas, you name it, all to reset your metabolism and catalyze muscle growth.

This diet will get you shredded in 8-10 weeks IF you follow it to a tee. Unlike the Slow Carb diet though, if you happen to cheat on this diet even in the slightest, your progress will be stalled fairly substantially.

Good for: rapid fat loss

Bad for: bulking

Carb Back Loading

Carb back loading is the perfect diet to follow after a cycle on CarbNite. Carb backloading is essentially the CarbNite diet, but way more fun. Instead of limiting yourself to one cheat night per week, you now can go crazy each night after an intense workout. The idea is that, with your improved insulin sensitivity, your body is in better shape to convert these excess calories into producing muscle, not storing fat.

On days you don’t hit the gym and in the mornings, you follow an ultra-low carb diet, similar to CarbNite. Though you may be tempted to eat entire pizzas or boxes of cookies at first, you’ll come to realize that the best postworkout meals are easily digestible carbs (rice, bread, potatoes, etc) with lean protein sources. Still, have a little fun with it at first though.

Good for: bulking

Bad for: cutting

Intermittent Fasting (IF)

While IF isn’t a diet in itself, it has garnered a significant amount of attention in recent years within the fitness community. IF lacks scientific results to back up any direct benefits however, there are significant conveniences it affords.

By definition, IF is a process in which you limit the time you eat each day into a window of anywhere from 8-4 hours. For instance, if you were doing a 16 hour IF, you likely only be able to eat from 2p - 10p. There would be absolutely no snacking before or after that window.

For me, IF was the single best way to measure my calorie intake and ensure I didn’t overeat. IF is also one of the most convenient ways for me to eat. Each day I would eat a massive lunch and dinner with small snacks and almost a gallon of water between them. Additionally, I felt extremely focused during my fasting state, as my insulin levels were steady and low.

Good for: everything

Conclusion

The above diets and techniques are what I have used to get into the best shape of my life over the last 3 years. Any combination of these will help you lose fat and gain muscle, if applied properly.

My advice for beginners: Slow Carb (4 weeks normal, 4 weeks IF) > CarbNite w/ IF (if cutting) or Carb BL (if bulking) (8 weeks) > The opposite of the previous (8 weeks)

My next post will detail the best lifting techniques coupled with each of these diets.


[–]BDX777 47 points48 points  (33 children)

How the fuck do you grow taller after 21?

[–]suske127 44 points45 points  (17 children)

Literally "growing taller" probably doesn't happen after 21 but if you fix shitty posture and loosen the joints in your spine (assuming they were compressed) you could gain 3 inches, in an extreme case. Most people could gain an inch or two by fixing their posture and loosening their spine

Edit: "Isn't Common" after 21

[–]TheRedStoic 21 points22 points  (0 children)

It is rare, but I grew an inch at 26. It's very uncommon. It wasn't posture because I've always had excellent posture.

I was 5'10 slouch 5'11 straight, now I'm 5'11 slouch 6'even straight. I also needed to buy new longer pants, the height was in the legs.

Very rare, but outliers can exist. My guess though, is this guy simply fixed his posture and wore better heavier soled shoes.

[–]rlaine 14 points15 points  (11 children)

How can I loosen the joints in my spine?

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]sigma272 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    >not using PB Blaster

    ABSOLUTE PLEB

    [–]Buchloe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Dude, PB blaster is a true miracle. Love that shit.

    [–]WhorehouseVet 9 points10 points  (1 child)

    One of those medieval stretch torture device.

    [–]mattizie 24 points25 points  (1 child)

    Where does it mention anything about height?

    [–]six-inch-valley 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    Most people stop growing around 20-22, but some keep growing until around 25 (or so I've heard).

    [–]rowan771 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    can confirm, at 21 I was 6ft4, 24 now and im 6ft5, still a fat fuck though...

    [–]515sofar 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    buy shoe lifts for a free 1 inch (not noticeable)

    [–]Pwn4you 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    For those looking to fix your posture, decompress your spine, and move better, this book True to Form has 7 exercises that'll do wonders.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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        [–]Dr_Villain 9 points10 points  (3 children)

        I disagree with the premise that going on a diet is necessary. Eat reasonably healthy meals and control your energy intake, keep it under your TDEE for cutting and above for bulking, make sure you get enough of the right kind of nutrients and you're good.

        Some diets like keto will make you extremely tired if you're an active guy and play a sport plus lift. The other downside to strict dieting is reduced quality of life. Cutting out whole food groups just isn't a sustainable way to live, so why not just make small, sustainable changes rather than go on a crazy diet that won't teach you anything in the long term?

        [–]VinDecent[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

        Eat reasonably healthy meals

        A diet is simply what you eat. You're always on a diet unless you're fasting (which also has benefits).

        You might be in the minority that has a great metabolism, good workout habits, and a good idea of what to eat. For the rest of people, a strict diet is a fantastic way to learn these principles and see results that will motivate them to really hit it hard.

        [–]Sighters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        for the majority of the population, eating a strict diet wouldn't be ideal. for a bodybuilder, sure. here's some research showing some advantages of flexible vs rigid dieting https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11883916

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Agreed. TDEE, then adjust for bulk and cut. Dont eat shit like candy and cake. For carbs, eat complex like sweet potatoes, oats, grits etc. Easy.

        [–][deleted]  (6 children)

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        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

        What diet do you do for triathlon? One of my long term life goals is to go to Kona for Ironman

        [–]prinzklaus 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        I'm training for a Half-Ironman and I'm doing the CarbNite diet at the moment. I feel pretty good with lifting and endurance. I'll test out how CarbNite makes me feel for Sprints and Olympics when the season gets going. I've read that some ultra marathon runners are switching to it because they don't hit a wall. If it's not for me with racing then I'll go back to Carb Back Loading.

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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          [–]prinzklaus 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Huh. Did not know this.

          I always thought when the track team or cross country team had those spaghetti dinners, that was carb loading. I always figured they ate carbs constantly.

          As a wrestler, I just ate/starved until I was on weight.

          Thanks.

          [–]TRIICT 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Keto and IF work. But Fat people have a fat mind. I lost a ton of weight on keto(we called it aktins back then I tell ya what) in highschool when I switched from TE to FB. But after I stopped playing sports and I went back to my high sugar,fried food life I became a fatty. So I did Keto again couple years back and If slimmed back down to my old weight.These meme diets work,but in the long run you have to change your mindset or you just return to your old fat state.

          Many people are straight up addicted to sugar and simple carbs.

          [–]Kevinfcb 40 points41 points  (96 children)

          There's 2 VERY important things for everyone to consider.

          1. You probably don't need to cut yet because you probably haven't added in enough mass yet. Don't cut unless you have a good amount of muscle underneath your fat.

          2. There's no magic diet. If you want to cut - make sure you eat at a deficit (400-500 cal deficit) and adjust your macros to ensure you get a gram of protein per pound of body weight. Reduce your carb intake to accommodate the protein.

          3. Bulking and cutting is for body builders. They do it in a extreme way and that's why it works. If you're a normal person - just slow bulk forever. I know you want that six pack - but trust me you ain't ready for the life that a six pack requires (feeling starved, fatigued, all day).

          [–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (68 children)

          You had me until the last point... For one, not every body builder does extreme bulks and cuts, although it is most time efficient. You can lean/slow bulk or do mini bulks/cuts instead. About the six pack, you don't need to feel starved and fatigued all day to be at a 500 calorie deficit if you eat clean food and you definitely don't need to feel starved and fatigued all day to maintain 9-10% body fat. Going back to #1 I would also point out that you don't really need as much muscle mass under your fat as you probably think, girls love physiques of guys who are really not much more muscular than someone who doesn't lift at all but are cut. Also a gram of protein per pound is overkill, if you look at studies the most you will ever need is 64-82% of a gram per pound

          [–]Kevinfcb 20 points21 points  (60 children)

          I guess my point is:

          • most people who think they're at 9-10% really aren't. That takes a serious lifestyle accommodation and sacrifice. Annnnd cutting DOES drain you. That's why your lifts drop when cutting and rise when bulking.

          • women will tell you they like dudes that look like they don't lift but are cut - but that's BS. That's a girl trying to limit you for her own benefit or a girl that knows she can't pull a "big" dude. Like guys that say "I don't like girls that have huge tits". Women are attracted to strong looking men - not dudes that have the frame of a women but have a six pack.

          • who cares though - if you're lifting to please women, you won't last long.

          Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone. I just get annoyed seeing bulk/cut threads with special diets being proposed to novice lifters, when the real advice should be "lift, eat a shitload, rest, repeat".

          Maybe it's my preference for strength training, but in my opinion - if you can't squat 315, dead 405, and bench 225 - you are not ready for a cut yet. You need to eat more, rest more, and keep progressing.

          [–]MatrixDream 15 points16 points  (12 children)

          You are so deluded if you don't think there are men who legitimately prefer women with smaller breasts. Now I don't know anyone who actually likes completely flat chested girls but you are making a classic fallacy of assuming everyone works the same way you do if you think every guy wants huge tits.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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            [–]laylowwww 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            You like young Vietnamese boys.

            [–]Kevinfcb 4 points5 points  (6 children)

            I guess my explanation should have been clearer. I believe when a girl tells a guy - "don't get too muscular - I don't like that". 8 times out of 10 it's because she's intimidated by the fact that you will get more attention. You're increasing your value while she is not.

            Or a girl who tells everyone that she doesn't like muscular guys - 8 times of 10 is because she perceives her value less and sees higher value women getting the muscular guys.

            It's not nice, but it's generally true.

            [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            I had a girl tell me she would swipe left on tinder if my picture was of me with a 6 pack and she admitted that it's cause she would be intimidated, or in other words she feels her value is too low to ever get that. I think you're spot on that girls saying they don't like muscular guys is just hamstering. They say that but then then they go on their computer and oo and ah over pictures of celebrities that are ripped. My point though was that being cut and not super muscular is still going to be considered very attractive by them, not that being bigger isn't even better cause you're right that's just the hamster when they say they don't like big dudes

            [–]antariusz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            She's telling you that to spare your feelings. Because she knows you don't currently have a six pack, and she likes you, and she likes you, and she doesn't want you to feel bad. Remember, women don't "lie" they communicate via emotion. And she doesn't want bad emotions and a fight.

            But women respond physiologically to what is directly in front of them. The guy with the six pack turns her on. She might even be smart enough to "know" that the guy is out of her league. But trust me. She still swipes right on him.

            [–]Kevinfcb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            Jeeeesus. It was just an example. Settle down.

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            I'm not saying being bigger and cut isn't better I'm just saying being not that big and cut is still great for the purpose of looking good. You can't honestly say girls aren't into this physique. Plenty of guys get into lifting because of girls and then find out how much they actually enjoy it for themselves and then keep at it. I get where you're coming from about getting to a certain level of strength before cutting, it's definitely most efficient but the bottom line is you'll still look good if you cut and you're not quite to those lifts yet. And you can stay pretty lean while progressing, it's just less efficient than doing a long term bulk. But yeah I think since you're into powerlifting cutting before reaching those lifts seems super retarded cause from a powerlifting perspective it totally is

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            most. gymbros who think they are 9 to 10 percent are 15+

            you gotta measure it and most people cant believe how much fat they are carrying and how hard it is to cut to abs

            [–]questionac 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            Nah, Chris Hemsworth's body in Thor is the "biggest" someone should get proportion wise, anything more than that is not more attractive.

            Keep lifting and do 400, 500, 300, Chris Hemsworth's body will still destroy yours and he'll be considered the most attractive even if you lift twice he does.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            The problem is that his physique is not sustainable for even the medium term. Hollywood stars train specifically for film roles and film the shirtless scenes right at the peak and usually after getting a good pump. Add in tailored steroids, professional supervision, makeup, lighting, and CGI and they have a huge advantage on screen.

            [–]questionac 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            And a bigger physique is?

            They need all those things to make it happen in a few months, you do it in 1-2 years.

            It's not hard to sustain that volume, and you don't lose flexibility and agility as much.

            My point is, bigger is not better after a point. You don't need to break any record in lifting, no need to push higher and higher and break personal records. Once you get your ideal target body it's over, sustain it and focus on other things. If you can have your ideal body by squating 200, then squat 200 even if you can 250.

            No need to take supplements, steroids, gain volume. You reach your target, go to sustain mode, relax and use the time saved for something else.

            [–]brunomarini13 3 points4 points  (18 children)

            Thanks, that hits home very hard. I am about 15~16% bf, 6'0 and 172lbs, and I was at a dillema if I should cut to get 6 pack or bulk, then realized I have nothing to show for, even after getting from 125lbs to current.

            [–]Kevinfcb 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            Keep eating, lifting, and resting my man! You got this. 172 from 125 is amazing. Keep going!

            [–]brunomarini13 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Thanks dude, that was my transformation from freshman to senior high school, so glad I found this earlier in my life!

            [–]joedevice 6 points7 points  (12 children)

            Body fat % is literally the most irrelevant stat. It's impossible to estimate accurately. Tthe only important thing that matters is what you see in the mirror. You can sit there and focus on some magic % number goal if you like, but fundamentally all you need to be doing is cutting at a healthy rate of weight loss until you're as ripped as you want to be in the mirror.

            [–][deleted]  (8 children)

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              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Watch this video and see if you still think you can get a perfectly accurate BF% test

              [–]joedevice 1 point2 points  (5 children)

              Why spend money on a BF scan, if you're looking for a quantifiable goal you can just step on the scale and measure progress like that.

              Yeah sure the 8% guy is going to look leagues better, but if you're there in front of him you'll look at him and think "Damn he looks good" not "I'm gunna confirm what body fat % he is so I can tell if he looks good or not". Body fat stats are pretty much only used for online dick swinging contests.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                [–]joedevice 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Then you'll be aware that as you've been in a calorie deficit but still have been gaining strength that you've lost fat and gained muscle. Not to mention the fact that you'd look better.

                The idea that you can only track progress with bf scans is simply wrong.

                [–]p00nbrigade 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                If your really serious about training and getting the results you want a dexa scan is definitely worth the money. Especially if your already spending lots of money meal prepping and eating clean.

                [–]joedevice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Weight lifting was around long before body fat scans were and they never seemed to have a problem. Sure body fat scans, when accurate, can tell you exactly what progress has been made, all I'm saying is to 99% of the people here they'll get on just as well with a set of scales.

                [–]p00nbrigade 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Body fat % is actually the most relevant stat along with your numbers on your lifts relevant to your body weight.

                [–]joedevice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Only for internet statting, apart from that it doesn't affect anything. Hitting some arbitrary number wont change the way you look or how much you can lift.

                [–]inmy325xi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Same numbers here and same dillema. Not sure where your from but for me, I normally chill in the winter because its cold on the East Coast and just continue to lift and maintain size and spring comes around bulk a bit to 183 (shows in my face and I hate it) and then cut to 17178 for the summer and maintain it.

                I hold a lot of weight in my upper body so for me, that weight looks like 190 to most guys (which means I never get challenged) and the girls compliment me.

                [–]brunomarini13 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I live in South America, and it's cold here as well, though now I'm constantly bulking (not very agressively) till I hit 185.

                [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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                  [–]nntaylor7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  If you can do it once is accepted. More is always welcome.

                  [–]tuzki 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  I think you're spot on. most people assume they're 7% bodyfat when they're 20%+

                  [–]wisty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  women will tell you they like dudes that look like they don't lift but are cut - but that's BS

                  It's also that women who don't know shit about lifting. I see a lot of guys in the gym who lift 2-3 plates, and still look a bit scrawny - serious bulk doesn't take lifting, it takes lifting, increadible nutrition, and usually steroids.

                  They seem to think that if you do a few curls every week, you'll accidentally turn into Ronnie Coleman (which is why so many refuse to do anything other than treadmill work).

                  They probably want "Hugh Jackman in Wolverine" (cut, but not insanely bulky), not "Arnie in his prime".

                  It's like how they say they want a guy who's 6'6", when they usually mean about 6'2".

                  [–]p00nbrigade 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  Many natural lifters, at least those that wish to obtain strength and mass gains will tell you that professional body builder style bulks and cuts aren't optimal. If your juicing its a different story.

                  [–]BindsThatTie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I see natural guys repeatedly run long cuts that wipe away months of muscle growth. Then they bulk till they can't stand the chunk again. And they're in this constant grow and shrink cycle that leads nowhere, always dissatisfied w/their look until they reach the harsh conclusion anyone on gear knows all too well:

                  You can be shredded. You can be big. You can be natural. Choose two.

                  [–]garrettruskamp 13 points14 points  (3 children)

                  Being skinny is more attractive than being fat and muscle gains are much more noticeable. This is why I advocate cutting first.

                  Edit: Seems many of you are lazy and fat dumbasses if you are able to delude yourself that being obese and soft is more attractive than being skinny.

                  [–]Lifting4Gainz 4 points5 points  (4 children)

                  Eh. I agree with only Pt. 2.

                  You probably don't need to cut yet because you probably haven't added in enough mass yet. Don't cut unless you have a good amount of muscle underneath your fat.

                  For beginners, the best thing you CAN do is to cut while doing strength training. Why? Because you'll make gainz regardless as a noob. It's the ONLY time in your life where you can kill two birds with one stone. Take advantage of it.

                  For a lot of people here, looking good is what really matters. Cutting first helps you look better in clothes than if you were overweight.

                  Bulking and cutting is for body builders. They do it in a extreme way and that's why it works.

                  Bulking/cutting is for everyone who wants to make changes to their weight. Diet controls your weight. Training controls your physique.

                  If you're a normal person - just slow bulk forever. I know you want that six pack - but trust me you ain't ready for the life that a six pack requires (feeling starved, fatigued, all day).

                  I've had a six pack for a while now and I don't feel starved. ???

                  [–]Kevinfcb 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                  This really depends on he individual. If you're fat - then yes by all means try cutting. But if you're like most novices I see (skinny fat) - I think you're better off bulking and progressing on your lifts. And I'm not talking dirty bulking.

                  [–]1Paid_Internet_Troll 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                  I'm a beginning weight lifter ( four months into SL 5x5), and cutting on a no-carb diet, while running ~20 miles/35 kilometers a week, and the flab is melting off while I get stronger.

                  Two or three 12-ounce steaks per day smothered in pans full of onions and mushrooms fills me up while on a 500 to 1000 daily calorie deficit.

                  Why would I bulk when I'm still at 28 bmi and chubby?

                  [–]rodcisal 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  what kind of cardio do you do? Im doing pretty much the same but biking on "rest" days HIIT style

                  [–]fellforthenattymeme 3 points4 points  (10 children)

                  This is the fucking cancer in the bodybuilding community, right here folks. People that look like shit and know NOTHING spouting advice LIKE AN EXPERT.

                  1000%.

                  1. Just lol.

                  An untrained person (You Kevin, looking at your DYEL retarded ass) can ADD muscle by eating a small deficit. When you are that fucking dyel and weak, your muscles respond very well to stimuli. So well, that you can actually gain minimal tiny bits of muscle mass while cutting.

                  Secondly,

                  Your hormone profile gets TOTALLY fucked up by being high bf %.

                  This means more estrogen less test in your system. This DESTROYS the quality of your gains while bulking. For every pound you add on, more FAT less MUSCLE.

                  For anyone OTHER THAN a hungry fucking skeleton, the IDEAL course of action is just cut slow, wait until you hit single digits bf %, then SLOW BULK once you are LEAN. Because you're lean and bulking, your gains will be MUCH better in quality, more muscle, less fat.

                  Two. Basically correct, whatever. At least your 25% bodyfat DYEL retarded ass knows SOMETHING.

                  Three. AHhahahahaha,

                  So you don't consider yourself a bodybuilder? Maybe it's because your garbage training methodology and garbage willpower and meme fucking 'Eat donuts and drink 1 day a week' 20% bodyfat nutrition is TRASH ADVICE?

                  Yet you wanna offer advice mister 'I'm not a bodybuilder' on how to look good?

                  slow bulk forever

                  You will end up obese. Obviously. Gaining fat forever.

                  but trust me you ain't ready for the life that a six pack requires (feeling starved, fatigued, all day).

                  Where is your willpower? Feeling starved and fatigued? Jesus christ.

                  If you want to feel full on a cut, just stuff your fucking face with brocolli. That shit has next to no calories and fills you up fast.

                  I NEVER feel hungry, "fatigued" or anything else cutting.

                  There is 0 reason for anyone that is training to not have a "6 pack".

                  You're literally been wasting all that time in the gym. Why show up?

                  Control your fucking nutrition and diet guys.

                  [–]questionac 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  adjust your macros to ensure you get a gram of protein per pound of body weight.

                  That seems a lot.

                  http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

                  There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle once you’re past the novice level as a natural trainee. This already includes a mark-up, since most research finds no more benefits after 0.64 g/lb.

                  Optimal protein intake decreases with training age, because your body becomes more efficient at preventing protein breakdown resulting from training and less protein is needed for the increasingly smaller amount of muscle that is built after each training session.

                  [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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                    [–]sneekeemonkee 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                    Never heard of this, but its better advice than the idiots pushing a cut when you have nothing to show under the fat.

                    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                        [–]Kevinfcb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        No. If you lift regulArly and eat 1-200 above maintenance you don't end up obese.

                        [–]InChargeMan 4 points5 points  (5 children)

                        my $0.02, a diy complete nutrition shake is a really great way for those lacking in self-control. Design your ideal macro and micro diet based on whatever your goals are, create a formulation to meet that, make it in bulk (all of the dry ingredients), then each day make a pitcher portioned to the exact calories you want for the day. Eat that and only that, and you are on your way to an easy end-product.

                        In addition to avoiding stalls in your progress, you will save a ton of time and money, giving you resources to do other stuff that makes you happy.

                        [–]Redundant_Bot 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                        deleted What is this?

                        [–]hoodbgoode 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        Hmm. Got any articles with a link to a strategy like this?

                        [–]InChargeMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        https://diy.soylent.com/recipes

                        Lots of formulations other people have made. For me the first step is figure out where you want to be with your macros, then build your food to match that. I like to keep carbs low, but not keto low, so around 100g. Same thing with protein, if you want 125g a day, do that with your favorite protein powder. Use olive oil, coconut oil, some PB or almond butter to make your fats.

                        If making your own is too much, there are a lot of soylent knockoffs with different characteristics so you can get what you want, keto, etc.

                        [–]TheRedWay 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                        I would like to point out there is an inaccuracy. This doesn't take away from the entire article, but one sentence needs correcting.

                        they’re what bodybuilders use to get in peak shape weeks before shows

                        Going into the show the Body Builders are at their weakest. They are at their leanest, but this isn't their peak of strength or conditioning. They are still athletes, and their body is conditioned to be in this state, but again, they are not at their peak performance level.

                        [–]VinDecent[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                        Sorry, I meant "ripped af", not "peak shape". Thanks for pointing this out.

                        [–]TheRedWay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        It's all good man. Thanks for summarizing these approaches, with New Years having just passed this is highly relevant. You broke it down well and I will be changing some things after reading this.

                        [–][deleted]  (10 children)

                        [deleted]

                        [–]VinDecent[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                        Agreed, at the most basic of levels. But I don't agree that 2,000 calories from a "balanced" diet is better than 2,000 calories from a ketogenic diet.

                        Perhaps it's anecdotal, but I certainly feel better, don't have "food comas", look better, and focus better on an ultra-low carb diet filled with moderate protein and essential fats.

                        Then again, I'm a bro, so take it with a grain of salt. Have you ever tried these diets? Would love your take on it.

                        [–]Kolbykilla 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                        I think the better way to put it is calories in vs calories out is how you lose weight period. How you divide up those calories between your macros is how you'll feel, and how your body will react. Not enough protein and you'll lose muscle along with fat during a deficit. Low Carbs, and your body will feel like shit and you'll have no energy. No fats and your hormones will be fucked and your dick will stop working ect. You might be losing weight all this time but if you get your macros right you can feel/function good while also dieting.

                        [–]testonator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        No matter wich of the diets that OP presented you need to focus on kcal in, vs out, that is true. But there are different ways to achieve that.

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        It is, but IF for instance makes it easy for you to accomplish that goal.

                        IF all the way.

                        [–]poopcasso 21 points22 points  (5 children)

                        If you don't show us your body, your words are worth much less.

                        [–]FeederPatrol 25 points26 points  (0 children)

                        What you say has some merit. However if you Take a look at the highest paid athletic coaches you can see that you don't have to be ripped to know a lot about conditioning or fitness

                        [–]Hayekr 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                        This statement makes little sense and is typical of bro-logic seen on bodybuilding.com forums.

                        It's akin to saying a Doctor treating cancer is less effective unless he himself has had cancer.

                        [–]godstriker8 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                        Not exactly, a doctor has proven credentials such as a degree. Here, it's akin to some random dude giving advice (independent of whether or not its good advice).

                        [–]greatslyfer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                        Yea, show us your body!

                        secretly takes out lotion and hanky :)

                        [–]GotTheSwagger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        I agree. However, all of those methods are proven to work elsewhere.

                        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                        Non sense diet. Nothing but broscience shit here.

                        how to LOSE or GAIN weight.

                        1) FIND YOUR TDEE
                        2) Eat .8g - 1.2g of protein to your body weight (LB)
                        3) Eat .4g - .6g of fat to your body weight (LB)
                        4) EAT below your TDEE to lose weight; eat ABOVE your TDEE to gain weight.

                        Its not that fking hard

                        of course, eat your greens and fruits.

                        [–]jimmysax99 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                        A lot of comments on here about what women like best. Like we men have different tastes in women, women also have different tastes in men, so you have to consider individual tastes in all of this.

                        Having said that though, if you look at studies that are done on what body type women prefer the most, it's a healthy toned man more than the muscled up type. Google it and you can find the studies, but I googled it and here was the first article on it that came up, and guess what, toned/fit was top choice.

                        http://www.diet-blog.com/07/are_muscular_men_more_attractive.php

                        Like someone else said, there is a reason most male models are not muscled up types. I've been around the block on this personally, as I have been anywhere from 165 all the way to 245 and everywhere in between over the years, and I am about 6'2".

                        I always got the best response from women when I was toned and 185 to 195 pounds. I am naturally muscular with broad shoulders and muscular thighs, but I can add and drop weight rather easily, but getting really cut/ripped is difficult for me. I rarely lift, because if I do, i bulk up too quickly and my appetite goes through the roof and I start putting on body fat with the muscle.

                        When I first started pushing for bulk in my muscles, I actually had several women comment that I was better looking when I was thinner. A few times women even asked me why I was trying to bulk and flat out told me I didn't look as good with the extra weight! Even at 165 I still had muscular legs and arms though, so my body type may look better toned and someone else's body may look better if bulked up, so find your happy medium.

                        The bottom line is that you want to have some muscle, but anyone that thinks you have to be hulking or that bigger is always better is wrong. If you like that look, nothing wrong with it and women do find it more attractive than too thin or over weight, but the preference is toned/athletic looking, followed by muscular bulk and actual experience tends to prove that fact out for me personally.

                        One other thing I think you need to consider, especially if 30+, which I am, is that most men these days that are over 30 are pear shaped, so women really respond if you are athletic and toned. I think cut is more in style now for the simple reason that there aren't many guys that are cut and toned any more.

                        I recently went from 230 to 210 and still dropping, and the difference in attracting women is already considerable. My goal is to get to 195 again, so I'm working on it. And I do it for me and to be healthy, but if I were to tell you I don't do it to attract women too, that would be a lie! Its a nice feeling to drop 20 pounds and suddenly having college age girls flirting with me and checking me out again. The older women though, say 35+, being my age and in shape brings them out of the woodwork! Seriously!

                        [–]Sketti-Os 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        Can someone further expand on this Carb-nite thing? Relatively new here. The link talks about your workout schedule while dieting on it, and the link is to a website that looks like a bad infomercial.

                        Low carb, or literally no carbs?

                        High protein and fat, is there a specific protein:fat ratio that is encouraged?

                        What are some good meal/snack ideas that don't leave you sick of them after 1-2 plates of the same thing?

                        [–]Gruyo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        I don't have much insight on keto, but isn't binging on carbs once a week defeating the purpose of keto, where you're just about to enter ketosis and the carb cravings die out, but you binge on carbs on sunday(for example) and you just reset things. Also I want to point out that you can gain muscle while on a cut, even if you're natty and not a novice. Also I don't see how the slow carb diet is any different from doing IFFYM and just counting the calories.

                        [–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        Veggies work only when raw. Cooked vegetables change chemically and the fiber you would get is largely lost from the heating process.

                        [–]pho33nix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        Sounds great! Please post the lifting techniques! I will give it a try. IF works and easy to follow and meal prep is kid's play.

                        [–]Arnoux 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                        It is a nice summary of your experiences.

                        Want do you think about the following? I make a smoothie 5 days a week. Each one contains around 0.8-1 kg of fruit (usually apple and orange). I drink it during the day whenever I am thirsty. (it is usually 2 litres, also I get water from other sources).

                        So what should be the effect of this on my body? You wrote about insulin. This smoothie probably gives a big boost to my insulin levels whenever I consume it.

                        [–]bleuge 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                        Too much sugar, no protein = bad. You must calc the macros of the smoothie, see yourself. For much better nutrition profile and good macros, check the smoothies in Precission Nutrition site.

                        [–]thor_away92 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                        Just add protein powder and peanut butter and now it's a super health food.

                        [–]RPwhitefrost 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                        Your findings pretty much back up my experience since Dec. 5th (when I started my diet). Been doing keto and IF since. Dropped from 188 lbs to 174 lbs. Haven't lost any strength either. Once my eight weeks of keto are up, probably gonna switch to something like the carb back loading diet you described.

                        [–]1TimmyTurnersNuts 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                        I've been on keto and IF since about Dec 26th. Lost 7 pounds so far. I also implemented HIIT into my workouts. This plus lifting is weight loss on easy mode.

                        [–]RPwhitefrost 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                        That's awesome! Good job dude; keep it up. Unfortunately, I've had a rough last two weeks. I've been forced into 3 cheat days by family because of the holidays (Christmas, NYE, and Russian Christmas), and I'm highly regretting it. I might have to add a couple weeks to the end of my initial diet plan.

                        [–]1TimmyTurnersNuts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Find what is comfortable and adapt. I can do IMF in 18 hour intervals and be fine. Just workout hard and find what's right for you honestly

                        [–]do_it_or_leave 0 points1 point  (10 children)

                        I am running a diet just like your carbnite. My goal is to lose weight, I am around 20%bf.

                        Will I cuck my gains if I drink beer on my cheat night?

                        [–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (5 children)

                        What the fuck. You people need to stop saying cuck so much. Yeah man if you drink beer on your cheat night your gains are gonna have to take care of some other dude's kid. Your gains' wife will probably be getting strange dick while your gains watch.

                        To answer your question, the more beer you drink the longer it will take to lose weight but it's not that big of a deal if you drink on your cheat night. Just don't make the mistake that a bunch of idiots do and think if you drink hard alcohol it doesn't have calories like beer does so you can get away with it often - even vodka has like 90-95% as many calories as beer and other liquor has more than vodka

                        [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                        A vodka with diet tonic is about 60 calories. The only beer close to that is mgd 64 or one of those other piss filled light beers. An ipa has 200+ calories. Either way, if you're serious about losing weight, stop drinking all together.

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        [–]sneekeemonkee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Or anyone serious about this stuff can give up drinking for a few months until they learn how their body responds to insulin spikes and dietary changes... Then you'll know what damage a beer or two does to your progress.

                        [–]Blaat1985 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                        The last thing you want to do when losing weight is drink beer.

                        [–]meh613 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                        IF doesn't involve not drinking water, or does it?

                        [–]SolidScorpion 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                        Drinking water is encouraged during IF

                        I did IF for more than a year. While it proved itself to be a superior choise for me when cutting it was very hard to bulk up (or i did a crappy job at it).

                        [–]stonerninja93 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        you can drink water, or anything without calories (in theory)...most people like to have coffee or bulletproof coffee (if you are on a keto diet) in the morning or till their fast breaks around midday.

                        [–]AwakeningLion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                        bulletproof coffee

                        Bulletproof coffee is defenitely not compatible with IF.

                        The limit to caloric intake during your fast is something like 20 calories, which is basically nothing. Take coffee, yes. Drink lots of water, yes. Add spices to your coffee if you want, for added benefits.

                        But don't add a bunch of butter or MCT oil to your coffee, that's not fasting. That's breaking your fast while not eating anything, i.e. completely useless torture.

                        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                        [deleted]

                        [–]Brewjo 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                        Those kinds of limits between 0-100 are the 'dead reckoning' for keto diets.

                        Unless you prick yourself 2-3 times a day for b-ketones and glucose evels you won't know your hard-line. And even then if you fuck-up for a day, you'll be back into ketosis the moment insulin has driven glucose levels back down to basal levels- which if your healthy is about 4 hours, even if you ate a whole pizza + bottle of coke and an ice cream.

                        Pancreas's don't fuck around. It should be the organ-mascot of the sub :)

                        [–]VinDecent[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        Sorry, you're probably right. I couldn't remember the right number. Just make sure it's low and experiment.

                        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                        [deleted]

                        [–]VinDecent[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        Cutting and high volume DO NOT go together. You will be tired as fuck and burning muscle. I recommend HIIT training (see dorian yate's training) when you're cutting. More on training in a later post.

                        [–]Kolbykilla 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        You can still do high volume just lower the volume. Listen to your body. Carb up and drink some caffeine (pre workout preferably) 20-30 minutes before your workout and you'll be feeling good even on a low cal diet.

                        [–]JohnnyGameGuy 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        Appreciate the post, I am experimenting on my diet and I hope you can take the time to answer a question I have.

                        My main lifts are really good and I am ready to start a cut.

                        I'm interested in trying the CarbNite, then Carb Back Load combo

                        If I were to do the CarbNite diet for say 8 weeks, should I keep the calorie count always at around 400 under?

                        Then when I start the Carb back load, I should keep calories above, but how long is it reasonable to do carb back load for the top insulin sensitivity benefit?

                        My normal diet has always been a slow bulk at 40% carbs 30% protein 30% fat. I suppose I'd go back to that after the insulin sensitivity normalizes.

                        Thank you so much!

                        [–]WerewolfofWS 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                        Jesus that is nothing! Is this the Auschwitz Bulk diet?

                        [–]JohnnyGameGuy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        That's hilarious! I inserted grams instead of percentage. I meant 40% carbs 30% protein 30% fat

                        [–]metallica11 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        with the IF diet, how MUCH room is there for veering off coursed? I love lifting, and I love looking cut, but I don't want refuse free drinks from people or food past 6pm, because it is outside my "fast window".

                        Here is an example - had an inlfamed joint in my wrist from playing guitar. I usually take a few ibuprofen and it helps immensely, however, I HAVE to take it with some food, or you can seriously damage your stomach (this has happened to me before). So I'm sitting here, wrist in pain, hard to dress myself, but I Can't take ibuprofen until noon becuase that is when my IF window starts and I need some sort of food along with it (not a lot - maybe halfa glass of milk or a granola bar).

                        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                        [deleted]

                        [–]VinDecent[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                        Butter and Avocado are key. Make sure you get some fibrous greens (spinach, asparagus, broccoli, etc) to fill you up. Also drink a good amount of water with some salt in it.

                        [–]Rommel0502 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Have done most of these at some point in my life.

                        The only thing I'll add is the hi-protein low-carb (CarbNite by the OP) works wonders for shedding fat, but as the OP correctly states you're burning fat/ketones rather than carbs. Hence, the energy is going to be far less efficiently available. That practically means you're going to be tired as shit. Stick with it for two weeks though and you'll see some serious results.

                        [–]GOATmar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        No anabolic diet mention?

                        op done fugged up smh

                        [–]isaiahexe 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        I'll be honest, I'm a picky eater (which is a big reason I don't try dieting) and am in high school. The biggest problem is probably that I don't like eggs or beans, and the slow carb diet looks interesting. Any tips about doing it without eating eggs or beans (maybe adjusting it to small amounts of grains or any foods to replace eggs and beans)?

                        [–]p00nbrigade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Learn to create a diet for yourself. Their are many databases online that will have macros for many different foods.

                        Calculate your required macros, pick foods that you like to eat that fit those macros and then eat that food.

                        Tell your parents that your trying to change your life for the better so they buy you the food you need. Or better yet get a Job and buy it yourself.

                        If your going to college, college interviews and admissions boards will also want to hear about you exercising discipline in that way as well.

                        [–]dudeguymanthesecond 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        From what I've seen regarding diet: one size does not fit all.

                        Personally I've only had good experiences with a CKD, but only with two full days of higher calories, predominantly carbs, for both bulking and cutting. One day load? Garbage, didn't work. Straight keto? Only worked well cutting. IF? Total garbage, low energy all the time, shitty workouts, no progress.

                        [–]Kevinfcb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Well. I'd bet 95% of the people reading this are novice.

                        [–]Kevinfcb 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        If the guy who is shredded never put on mass - he won't look good. He'll just look like a scrawny guy with a six pack (most scrawny guys who don't even workout have six packs anyway).

                        [–]fellforthenattymeme 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        Low bf + Very little muscle > Medium/High bf + very little muscle

                        At least you won't look like a pear, you'll have a vaguely masculine form.

                        Anyways, it's ideal to get lean, like single digit bf % lean, before attempting to bulk.

                        This improves your hormone profile and the quality of your gains bulking (more muscle, less fat).

                        Plus, if you try to bulk at 15% bf, well you're already too fat, so adding fat to your frame? Gl with that.

                        [–]Kevinfcb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        I was responding to the claim that girls prefer dudes that don't look like they lift but have a six pack comment made by another user. Im not trying to say an obese person is more attractive than a frail skinny dude.

                        [–]fellforthenattymeme 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        This diet also calls for a cheat day once a week where you can go crazy, pounding beers and eating donuts until you puke.

                        Totally disregarded.

                        Booze inhibits protien synthetics in general, and if you're cutting, you're going to destroy one week of your cut in one day of idiotically shoving donuts down your throat.

                        (if you’re > 15% BF)

                        Which you should never be... if you're just starting out, sure, I won't begrudge you, everyone starts somewhere.

                        But if you've been "training" for a while and your Bf % EVER gets above 15%, there's really no excuse.

                        Stay shredded YEAR ROUND NATTY. No DNP, No Clen, No NOTHING.

                        Cut down to single digit 8-9% SLOWLY (+250---+500) bulk up to 12% SLOWLY (-500) cut down to 8%-9%

                        EASY. NO NEED TO GET FAT. If you're ever sitting at 15% bodyfat, you FUCKED UP.

                        Just because Lee Priest makes HUGE gains on fucking Growth hormone and tren and god knows what eating 10,000 calories a day for months at a time DOESNT MEAN YOU NEED TO.

                        You're fucking up your hormone profile, big time, and your bulk is going to be all fucked up as a result.

                        hen, one night per week (preferably after a workout), you go hard as a mofo on sweets, potatoes, tortillas, you name it, all to reset your metabolism and catalyze muscle growth.

                        Research about leptin levels and refeeds. YOU DON'T REFEED BY SHOVING YOUR FAT FACE WITH CANDY ONCE A WEEK

                        The above diets and techniques are what I have used to get into the best shape of my life over the last 3 years.

                        Yeah Uh Huh I'm sure the guy """training """" for 3 years doing this shit tier fucking meme garbage and stuffing himself with cake and tequilla for 1/7th of the days is competition ready and a dry 8% bodyfat.

                        tl:dr:

                        Avoid meme tier diets, just hit proper macros and eat clean, don't IIFYM, research how to properly do a refeed (eat a small surplus of real food in calculated intervals based on your bf % to replenish your leptin levels...)

                        Research carb cycling, DONT fucking randomly stop eating carbs or eat 99% carbs...

                        DONT fucking stuff your fat face with tequilla shooters and donuts and tell yourself you're 'training'.

                        [–]p00nbrigade 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                        I was waiting for someone to come and clear this up.

                        Idk why people are so huge on these cheat meals. Its like no one wants to tell anyone that success in the gym is 99% discipline and consistency. Lifting weights isn't fucking hard people its the commitment and structured life style it requires for success that is.

                        Also if you lift. Edible marijuana and dabs are your friend. Grow out of drinking its not even that fun and you know it.

                        [–]fellforthenattymeme 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Idk why people are so huge on these cheat meals

                        Man, once you get to a certain body fat %, like, 9-10%, ACTUALLY 9-10%, not '15% visible 6pack but think I'm 10% because 6pack', you need to start learning about refeeds and shit if you want to cut down to 8% or so natty.

                        You need to refeed about once a week when you're that lean. Refeed is done by eating a SMALL surplus of CLEAN carbs like oats, rice, potatoes, and vegetables.

                        20% of your TDEE is perfect, so if your TDEE is 3000, eat 3600 for a day then keep cutting.

                        The reality of it is, your typical fucking guy, as well as the OP that made this thread, is like 20% bodyfat.

                        Their refeeds are them pigging out on tequila shooters and fucking taco bell and just eating 'whatever' many calories.

                        I mean, the fucking diet, and the guy who wrote it, has no knowlege of bodybuilding, or nothing, just randomly read 1 article on refeeds and decided to tell 20% bodyfat people that they should 'refeed' on fucking donuts.

                        Everbody ITT is acting like it's IMPOSSIBLE to get a visible 6 pack (like 12-15% bodyfat depending on how much ab devolpment you have).

                        In reality, it's IMPOSSIBLE if you fucking stuff yourself with tequila shooters and pancakes and have zero idea what the fuck you're doing.

                        I advise just your typical gym bro, to not bother with getting to below 10% and refeeds and shit.

                        I need to do it so I can take fucking pictures to share with homosexual men on "bodybuilding" websites (not kidding)

                        Your average dude just has zero need to get that lean, plus, your dick stops working at around 8.5% (enjoy) unless you roid

                        But there's no reason to be FAT AS FUCK. If you're gonna 'bulk', why the fuck DONT YOU GET LEAN FIRST?

                        Otherwise you will just end up looking like an amorphous blob.

                        On the topic of roids, I am seriously considering leaving humanity behind. I gained 1.5 lbs last YEAR of training, kek.

                        I wanna not even look human. I look around and humanity is fucking retarded and is refeeding at 20% bodyfat.

                        GET BIG CMON

                        [–][deleted]  (13 children)

                        [deleted]

                        [–]p00nbrigade 1 point2 points  (12 children)

                        Low carb diets work exceptionally well once you body is accustomed to it. It also will allow you to really reap the energy benefits of introducing carbs into your diet before a workout for energy.

                        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (11 children)

                        PhD Exercise Physiology, you are incorrect. Part of my career path is that I spend countless hours on Pubmed and the majority of the literature disagrees with you.

                        Carbs are your primary fuel source for resistance training. To promote hypertrophy, you must stress the muscle enough that you cause structural damage. This occurs in 3 minutes or less, hence why we must take breaks between sets. In times under 3 minutes, the glycogen system is the primary fuel source as it provides enough energy at a fast enough pace. For a typical hypertrophy centered workout, we expect 30-60 second rests between sets to volition all fatigue.

                        On a low carb or ketogenic diet, performance definitely suffers in terms of hypertrophy and resistance training. Oxidative pathways, while very heavy on energy supply, are very slow. You must back off on intensity, increase rest periods, decrease training volume, or a combination of those, to maintain any semblance of a proper program.

                        While you may think you can maintain the same training, I assure you it's in your head. If you were to keep a journal, you would likely notice no difference from carbs to keto, which doesn't sound bad, but also realize that you aren't seeing improvements but rather just maintenance.

                        [–]fellforthenattymeme 0 points1 point  (9 children)

                        but also realize that you aren't seeing improvements but rather just maintenance.

                        It depends. That's true in the context of a bodybuilder training for a while, of course, he's not gonna make zero fucking gains without carbs.

                        But if you have no muscle mass, muscles react so well to stimuli and heal so fast, you can add muscle doing whatever retarded shit.

                        You can literally add muscle eating -1000 calories diet of taco bell and doing farm work, because your FFMI is so low

                        Anyone stupid enough to consider keto falls in the 'zero muscle mass' category and they can probably make gains without carbs, honestly.

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

                        So from what I could actually understand of your poorly written response, you're saying a twig could add muscle mass no matter what?

                        Also, keto isn't stupid for everyone. I would never do it and I don't prescribe it to people UNLESS they have neurological disorders (ie. Migraines, seizures) as ketogenic diets have been shown to help. For those looking to increase performance or muscle mass, carbs still remain king.

                        [–]fellforthenattymeme 0 points1 point  (7 children)

                        So from what I could actually understand of your poorly written response, you're saying a twig could add muscle mass no matter what?

                        Yeah

                        poorly written

                        Your response was 50% correct and not applicable to the real world, so I'd say it was poorly written.

                        Your claims that it is "impossible" to add LBM without carbs simply is not correct, it is just less efficient for a beginner and impossible for a trained individual

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

                        I meant poorly written in terms of sentence structure and grammar. Also, the flow was jumping from one thought to another with some of the thoughts mingling together. I actually wasn't attacking, I was trying to give feedback while trying to understand what you were saying.

                        I know it's not "impossible" but it is very inefficient and adding LBM would be an exception to the rule. I recently did a BB show where I dropped from 215 to 175 while only losing 4 lbs of LBM. This was done on a 50/30/20 CHO/PRO/FAT diet. I dropped from 16% to 4% (DEXA) AND 3% (SF), so it was a huge change. I kept carbs high, and these results are fairly uniform for others who keep carbs in during the cut up until the last week.

                        Conversely, I have seen competitors do keto diets and, while some looked great, most came in looking soft and lost quite a bit of LBM. The literature also supports this.

                        So again, no it is not impossible to put on LBM with low carbs, it is just a very inefficient way of doing so. I would also like to say your response this time was greatly improved.

                        [–]fellforthenattymeme 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                        Oh alright, I didn't know you were competing, I am sort of growing frustrated with the level of people that are offering advice here (and the advice they offer) so I was putting in minimal effort in my replies and shitposting.

                        I hope the show went well for you, remember, if you don't win, you still get the photos, the experience, and everything else, as well as making new friends!

                        I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. I don't understand how people training long enough to start competing can be so silly to just abandon proper macros and think they can keto and then carb up for a competition. That never works, and you yourself said, the proof was in their physique.

                        Any reason for going up to 16% bf? I never like to or feel the need to exceed 12%. It hasn't really hurt me either.

                        I'm pretty vain and pretty insecure, so past 12% I start to feel gross and just start cutting until I hit 8% and the associated erectile dysfunction (lol) and then eat matienece for a week or two to normalize, followed by a lean bulk back to 12%.

                        Was it because you wanted to bulk as hard as you could on cycle (not accusing you of anything, just wondering, I know not everyone is a natty DYEL like me, and plus, 4% bf lol), to put on maximum gains?

                        That is the only logic I can understand for someone bulking that high. I don't see the point otherwise.

                        The only question your post gave me is why would you bulk to 16%, and I' simply curious why.

                        At that level, if you're roiding, you're going to have trouble managing your e2, have to pop extra AI, fuckign your lipid levels up, or if you're natty, worry about extra estrogen and lower test levels.

                        It in general seems disadvantageous

                        I think the real results are very apparent in people that compete and look good and what works for them, and it's never meme tier shit that you find in the OP. Funny how that works?

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                        Careful now, testosterone is probably my main research interest. I have been using it for close to a decade and have made it enough a part of my life that my career goal is to open up a research lab specifically geared towards AAS research. In short, they're safe and they work (when done properly). What you hear in the media is complete horseshit based on bad science done by biased researchers using poor methodology and sampling.

                        As far as the 16%, it was a dirty bulk. I knew I was doing a show and would be dieting for 16 weeks and kinda went overboard the month before with packing on size. Since July, I'm back to 205 and 10% so I've done well on that. I keep protein at body weight, fat at 20%, and the rest is carbs. This macro makeup has consistently results with athletes and performance.

                        I've never had a real issue with confidence. I'm a big guy and finishing up a PhD so I'm at the point where I do what I want and don't really care about any judgement others may have. That being said, I'm very Machiavellan and pragmatic. I do what the science shows.

                        [–]fellforthenattymeme 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                        Thoughts on a 250mg Test e cycle, followed by a 500 mg cycle, followed by perma blast and cruise + mast + tren

                        I am sick of being natty and gaining 1 lb a year.

                        I am aware perma B+C is bad for you. I am aware tren and mast aren't healthy.

                        But I'm thinking and thinking, do I really wanna be this size forever? I'd rather shave some years of my lifespan and be HYUGE for the remainder of it.

                        Wanna leave humanity the fuck behind, piano man mode here I come

                        [–]p00nbrigade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        This is good to know. I'm in the military and eat in a dining hall so of I ate all the carbs available to me I wouldn't be able to get enough protein within my proper TDEE. When I get out however i plan on meal prepping and eating an substantial amount of carbs for my bulk.

                        [–]Anonyresearcher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Just to mention: A recent study I can't find found the conditionals for which genetic groups should have which diets.

                        It requires knowing your genome, but if you do... could help

                        [–]Luckyluke23 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                        thanks so much for this post man! I've been going to the gym for a year and seeing little to no results ( it's from diet I have the strength gains not the " you like like a brute i want to fuck you" gains)

                        after reading the comments can someone give me some help on fixing posture?

                        edit: during IF can you drink water or have coffee if it's not in your " time to eat"

                        [–]justin987654321 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        Drink as much water as you want, it wont mess up your fast, but avoid anything with calories.

                        [–]plutorising92 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Thanks, good post for beginners. There's so much bullshit on diet out there, good to have this in one place.

                        [–]InSunlightWeBelong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Concise and good formatting. The Red Pill needs more quality posts like this. Recently I've been seeing shitposters make it onto the front page

                        [–]pillagerbot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Apparently I've been intermittent fasting most of my life already. I can attest that this is regime is easy to follow and maintain once you ween yourself off breakfast. I transitioned with granola bars at first until skipping it entirely.

                        I eat lunch at noon and dinner at 7pm and drink a ton of water between then. It took me a few weeks to eliminate breakfast, then a month or so to decrease my lunch portion size back to normal.

                        [–]WerewolfofWS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Anyone do a SKD Strict Ketogenic Diet? I love being in Ketosis

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