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How 'not giving a fuck' helps in attracting women. (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

The hardcore Blue Pill beta guy that I was, I always thought being polite and sweet and caring and treating women like princesses would help me attract 10s. Surprise surprise, I always ended up in their friendzone whenever I tried too hard.

Then there are these ugly-average girls who are good friends to just talk to. I feel no attraction towards them at all. So I know I can just sit back and be myself and not think twice before saying anything.

Funny thing is, these ugly-average girls are the ones who are all over me. One of them asks me to go for a movie with her. One of them tells me that she's jealous of the other girls I talk to. Constant good mornings and good nights with the '��' emojis. One of them is convinced that I am her soulmate and that we are destined to be together (I find this fucking creepy and I try to keep her at a distance but the more I run away, the more she feels attracted).

Now that I look 5 years back, I realise I got my first (and only) girlfriend in this exact same fashion. I was focussed on working out, playing football for a club and studying. Girls didn't matter. Also, I was on a NoFap streak of 2 months or so. Never really got the time to sit and wank my wonga because of the busy schedule.

During that period when I was happy with my life without girls and without porn, this girl (who would later become my girlfriend) developed a crush on me. I never even tried to make her fall for me. She was just a friend for me but I knew she was proper wife material so I gave it a shot and we dated for more than a year. (Why we broke up is a different story related to me going back to my blue pill ways)

So I urge you guys not to put beautiful women on a pedestal. The more you do that, the more you're digging your grave called the friendzone. You should KNOW that your life is wonderful regardless of a woman being in it. That's how you develop an abundance mentality and not give a fuck about whether or not you'll get laid. This is how you become attractive to all kinds of women. ALL KINDZZZZZZ.

Conclusion/TL;DR:

The harder you try, you'll stink of desperation and neediness. The moment you start living your life realising that happiness comes from your hobbies and goals and not from a vagina, women will swarm around you like fleas on a turd.


[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 216 points217 points  (9 children)

The DGAF attitude is interrelated with many TRP concepts.

When something is scarce, you tend to care much more about it. Imagine if food were scarce; you would obsess over obtaining it, and once you had it, you would guard it fiercely. When food is plentiful, you might think about it occasionally but it won't occupy your thoughts constantly. You'll have a much more DGAF attitude towards food. This is where the abundance mentality is relevant; when you feel that women are abundant, you'll stop obsessing over them and naturally have a DGAF attitude.

Another related concept is focusing on yourself and living an interesting life. If you've got something interesting going on 24/7, you'll have less time to obsess over women or one particular woman, also naturally leading to a DGAF attitude.

Now this all ties back to how women perceive you. Do you think a woman will prefer to be with a guy who does nothing but obsess over women, or a guy who seems to effortlessly attract women wherever he goes and is also living an interesting life with limited time to think about women? A DGAF attitude signals a man with abundance and a man who values his time.

[–]srkjfone 22 points23 points  (4 children)

As TRP always emphasizes Never make woman your goal.

[–]Dont-Complain 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Oh cool perspective. I thought this subreddit was about people entirely dedicated on manipulating other people. But I like this better.

[–]Krissam 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I rarely come here, I check it sometimes when I see it mentioned on other subs.

To me the essence of TRP seems to be something along the lines of

Don't chase happiness, become the best version of yourself and happiness will come to you.

[–]NikhilHalbe 48 points49 points  (0 children)

Absolutely spot on! Make yourself your priority, not women.

[–]detachedbymarriage 5 points6 points  (0 children)

When something is scarce, you tend to care much more about it. Imagine if food were scarce; you would obsess over obtaining it, and once you had it, you would guard it fiercely. When food is plentiful, you might think about it occasionally but it won't occupy your thoughts constantly. You'll have a much more DGAF attitude towards food. This is where the abundance mentality is relevant; when you feel that women are abundant, you'll stop obsessing over them and naturally have a DGAF attitude.

I want to bounce on this to really drive it home.

This is an inherent human trait that is built into our DNA. We were evolved to purposely seek more of or for what we dont have. Human focus will never drift from this, regardless what happens in society.

In terms of TRP. A woman will always crave the attractive man who she can't get; just like a man will always crave to spread his seed far and wide.

Civilization as a whole is really just one huge struggle over scarcity and abundance.

[–]IMGRINDIN_IPROMISE points points [recovered]

Then would it be beneficial to have a scarce mindset about money, to help not spending it and working hard to get more?

[–]thewrightstuff88 95 points96 points  (9 children)

Underneath all of this is how you perceive your self.

Theres YOU, and under you are girls you perceive to be "ugly/average" and above you are the girls you want to "attract." Subconsciously, you'll always be sweet and polite to the attractive girls because deep down you may perceive yourself to be below them or out of your league.

You have to believe deep down that you are better than them all. That you don't need any of them, regardless of how hot they are. This is just a way to thinking to get around any nerves you may get in front of them. The more you think it, the more you will believe it, and the more they will believe it too.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You have to believe deep down that you are better than them all.

Actually you just need to fake it. It may not be quite as good as true DNGAF but it get's pretty close when you have some practice. I don't think the moment it becomes true in your mind that everything changes and I don't think girls are very good at distinguishing between a guy faking (the RIGHT behaviors and attitudes) and a true Natural.

[–]NikhilHalbe 9 points10 points  (5 children)

That's a very interesting trick to reduce nervousness! Most of the TRP'ers here have low self esteem. That makes them freeze in front of a hot woman. I hope they read your comment.

[–]boyifyoudontiswear 13 points14 points  (4 children)

You're delusional if you think most TRPers have low self esteem and are nervous in front of women, quite the opposite. Newbies maybe, folks who have actually swallowed the pill, no.

[–]Schroef 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Not OP, but I think he's right. Most TRPers I see on here have their self esteem tightly coupled to how many (hot) girls they can get. That's a sign of low self esteem.

Many cultivated it into faking they're confident and don't give a fuck. But secretly, they do. They learned how to perform a bunch of tricks succesfully so they can score girls, and resent those girls for falling for those tricks ánd having to apply those tricks to get laid.

[–]lagerea 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I agree, I think a large portion of what brings guys here is stemming from low self esteem and as a result poor interactions with girls, incidentally that's what this group is good for building. It is a long road to being honest with yourself though.

[–]NikhilHalbe 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Sorry for generalizing. I meant newbies.

[–]Shieldless_One 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"You have to believe deep down that you are better than them all. That you don't need any of them, regardless of how hot they are. This is just a way to thinking to get around any nerves you may get in front of them. The more you think it, the more you will believe it, and the more they will believe it too."

Exactly why we say around here to think of women as little girls. They aren't much different.

[–][deleted] 54 points55 points  (3 children)

It's a double-edged sword. You give a fuck about women, they don't care, you stop giving a fuck about women, they suddenly care, and now that you have their attention, you give a fuck about women, but then they don't care etc

[–]NikhilHalbe 45 points46 points  (2 children)

When you have their attention, don't overdo it. Be involved, but aloof.

For eg: Take your time to reply to her texts, don't always be available, show her that you have other things to do, DO NOT send good mornings and good nights, etc.

It is only when you make her the center of your attention that she gets turned off.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Mine goes in extremes. I don't need other human beings to entertain myself, so if I'm giving you my attention, get to the point already. Doesn't really go over well because they like playing dumb games instead, so I kind of just ended up not giving a fuck because you're wasting my time.

[–]UnderTheShills 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Be involved, but aloof.

That is pretty much my motto for life.

[–]VoiceActorForHire points points [recovered]

Also a Law of Power. Work super hard but don't show it. People will think it comes easy to you, and they will adore you!

[–]BreathOfDick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aa much as I like that one, I often have to emphasize to my boss that what I do is not quick and easy. Reason being is that fucking American work ethic means I am supposed to be constantly busy and working my ass off. So when I write a program that takes 8 hours but can summarize what it does in like two sentences, I need to explain that it's complicated work.

[–]Daddie0 20 points21 points  (37 children)

"One of them is convinced that I am her soulmate and that we are destined to be together (I find this fucking creepy and I try to keep her at a distance but the more I run away, the more she feels attracted). "

This goes both ways. And now you know exactly how the girls / women feel when a BP / "nice guy" tries so hard.

When I look back at my life with girls / women, this is always how it went. Payed no attention to them / DGAF, they couldn't get enough of me, and got to the point it annoyed me. Payed all my attention to them, they typically went out with someone else who didn't treat them as well and would even tell me. I hated women for that behavior, but the answer was right in front of me all the time, I was the one being stupid.

[–]NikhilHalbe 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Same here, man! Whenever I actively chased a girl, I always got shot down. Really glad I finally realised how it works.

[–]LegendaryAdjacent 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Would you say asking a girl out counts as chasing? It's not as if you are investing time into them, just as asking them a simple question?

[–]NikhilHalbe 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Asking her out having already established a position of power won't be called chasing.

But if you go about it by constantly being nice, listening to her whining about her problems, going shopping with her, showering her with gifts and stuff she isn't gonna respect you at all. It becomes obvious that you're chasing her and you either look needy or she treats you like a bff.

If you happen to meet a girl for the first time, ask her out within the first 10 mins of your meeting. If you keep pretending to be nice to get in her pants, she'll only think you want to be just a friend and you'll be in the friendzone.

[–]new_alpha 5 points6 points  (26 children)

I feel bad, like, aren't there any girls that value being treated well? I mean, not being treated like a princess and put on a pedestal, but like when you are hoinest to her and show what you feel (but not by being clingy).

[–]Manwith1name 10 points11 points  (14 children)

Treated well? Yes. Just make sure you do a little less for them than they do for you. It sounds dickish, but they actually keep a running score of whose done what, (think of any argument you've had with a woman who brings up some shit from forever ago that you never paid a second thought.) Women are attracted to men who are less invested in them than they are in the man. Simultaneously they will attempt to increase your level of investment in them (which makes sense) but paridoxically if you do become more invested in her than she is in you she will no longer be physically attracted to you (sounds stupid, but is born out in the evidence). You can (and should) treat them well, but you must not give in to their demands often. Women are some complex shit.

[–]NotYourNoodles 2 points3 points  (5 children)

As a woman, I can confirm this. I naturally keep a "running score" of who's done what, just how my brain works. Also I prefer when the guy isn't quite as invested in me as I am him. But this doesn't mean guys should treat their girlfriends like shit, because then the guy will get dumped if the chick has any self-worth or self-respect.

[–]Manwith1name 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You should treat everyone well. Being occasionally catered to by a person who values their time and is thus (more likely to be) high value, brings much more value than constantly being treated well in every way by a person who is the opposite and thus a doormat. Would you rather be payed 100£ or five thousand Iraqi Dinars? I know which one I would chose.

[–]TangoZulu 0 points1 point  (3 children)

"Also I prefer when the guy isn't quite as invested in me as I am him."

Have you ever given thought as to WHY you tend to prefer this? From a logical standpoint, isn't the safer position the one with less invested, therefore having less to lose? Just curious.

[–]NotYourNoodles 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yes, I've thought about it. I still don't really know why but I want him to have his own life and not be dependent on me. If we are equally invested in each other, that would be ideal.

Yes, logically the safer position would be to be the one less invested. But attraction isn't based on logic, at least most of the time.

Edit: After writing that comment I thought about it more and I think dependence may be the biggest part of it. Perhaps evolutionarily, men like women to be dependent on them because it helps to ensure that the man benefits from certain resources/services (the woman cares for the children, maintains the home, etc), whereas the woman already has children dependent upon her (of course children are also dependent on the father but the woman traditionally spends more time with the children). So I dunno, I'm just talking out of my butt. Feel free to correct me or add to what I've said.

[–]TangoZulu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for taking the time to think about it and reply. I certainly wouldn't presume to "correct you"; as a man, I have my theories but that's all they are, theories. :)

I do agree with your thoughts. TRP often points to evolutionary biology when it comes to attraction, but it's often misconstrued and vilified by women that feel that the concept somehow removes their personal agency from the equation. Yet at the same time, they will point to dependency as an attraction killer and list "successful", "confident" and "independent" as traits they find attractive. Of course, this doesn't mean that women today NEED a man to provide for them, but it does lend credence to the idea that on some level what we find attractive in a mate was passed forward from our distant ancestors.

Anyway, thanks again for being willing to have an open-minded discussion here. I was trying not to lead you towards any specific conclusions and appreciate the thought you put into replying.

[–]king_of_red_alphas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow! ... A self-aware woman ventured into TRP! That's a rare sighting actually.

[–]new_alpha 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Thank you for your well-thought response, I needed to read this. I don't want to turn this into another subreddit but I have a question: if a girl has already shown interest in you and we are dating. She has low self steem and had a depressed past but she really shows interest in you (of course I can't hide that this is my current situation, and I really like her as a person nonetheless). How should one act, keep this score game through the entire date/relationship?

[–]Manwith1name 3 points4 points  (5 children)

I don't think you have to keep score, just be aware of the times she is trying to get you to do something for her that involves you NOT doing something for yourself (blowing off the gym, breaking plans with friends, driving for an hour to get her coffee.) This will make her angry, (be prepared to fight about it, keep your cool and let her vent) but she will respect you for not giving into her demands. If your girl has low self esteem be prepared for her to use that as a reason for you to give into her (stop dressing nice, being fit, improving yourself because she feels badly about herself and is worried she could lose you. She should worry that she could lose you, the minute she stops worrying she will dump you) encourage her to do shit that will raise her self esteem, eat better, lift, improve herself in general but don't be surprised if she refuses or doesn't follow through. If she has a legit reason for you to break plans to help her do it but be mindful if after that she starts having constant emergencies to control your behavior. Last but not least, always be prepared to bounce never stop flirting with other women and understand that her attraction to you is based on your investment in yourself but that her psychological desire for comfort will drive her to try to get you to destroy the part of you that she finds attractive.

[–]TangoZulu 3 points4 points  (4 children)

"her psychological desire for comfort will drive her to try to get you to destroy the part of you that she finds attractive."

Brilliant insight here.

[–]Manwith1name 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Best part is: because they drive you to destroy that part of you yourself, they will blame YOU for changing when they dump your ass.

[–]TangoZulu 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Absolutely, all because she is driven by her feelings at moment. When your SMV is higher than hers, she feels insecure. So she works to lower your SMV so she feels safer without realizing it will kill her attraction. When it does, it is YOUR fault for not being a man and standing up to her. So actually, she isn't wrong. And we come full circle into a lesson about being too nice and how it kills attraction.

[–]Manwith1name 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very true. Is it fair? No, but that's fucking life. You cannot change the rules of the game, but you can master them.

[–]king_of_red_alphas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another one to add to the TRP fortune cookies.

[–]TangoZulu 12 points13 points  (6 children)

All girls want to be treated well. They will all tell you as much, and they all absolutely believe this to be true. But there is an inherent paradox with this, and to truly understand it, you have to be able to look at life from their point of view. Girls (especially attractive girls) all grow up with everybody going out of their way to be nice to them, to treat them well. So this is their base line; it is the norm for them. And then when they hit their teen years, sex comes into play, and they very quickly learn that all of these nice boys have ulterior motives behind their niceness. This puts girls on the defensive, and even subconsciously they begin to equate niceness with creeps that just want to get in their pants.

Think about how you feel when you're approached by a salesman. They can act like the nicest person in the world, but deep down YOU KNOW that it's fake and all they care about is getting your money. It's an awkward and painful experience. You just want to get away from them. Now imagine that half of the population is a sleazy salesman, always working you, day-in and day-out. All of a sudden, it's easy to see how girls can be attracted to an IDGAF attitude. If you DGAF, you aren't just another sleazy salesman trying to sell your way into sex. So yes, they want to be valued and treated well, but they want it to GENUINE, and in their life experience 99.99% of these interactions turn out to be sleazy salesmen in disguise.

[–]new_alpha 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Thank you for your well-thought response, I needed to read this. I don't want to turn this into another subreddit but I have a question: if a girl has already shown interest in you and we are dating. She has low self steem and had a depressed past but she really shows interest in you (of course I can't hide that this is my current situation, and I really like her as a person nonetheless). How should one act, keep this score game through the entire date/relationship?

[–]TangoZulu 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Don't "keep score". That's what women do. You're a man, and as such you have more important things to worry about than a petty score card. In the end, if you are letting some imaginary score dictate your actions, you aren't being true to your convictions in the moment and is inherently a BP/Nice Guy tactic.

Have you ever heard women give a man dating advice and say "Just be yourself."? We all know that this is horrible advice because most men interpret this to mean they should expose their emotions and vulnerabilities to women, which is ultimately unattractive. So why do women say this? The answer isn't a global woman conspiracy to expose men's weakness. The true answer is because they want men to be genuine with them. They spend their lives weeding out all the Nice Guys with ulterior motives, trying to figure out who genuinely likes them and who is just trying to fuck them. So "just be yourself" is them telling men to drop the act and be real.

So my advice in how to act is NOT "just be yourself", but rather "BE TRUE TO YOURSELF". It's OK to be nice to a girl if you genuinely like her and feel like being nice to her. If she asks you to do something that you don't want to do, say NO. If you can't say "no" to her, you're in salesman mode (the customer is always right), which is a sign that you have ulterior motives and are not being true to yourself. And even though she gets her way, she'll sense that it's not genuine on your part. This is why the typical advice here is don't be too nice. Not because you should treat girls like shit, but because being too nice all the time is never genuine and girls will pick up on it (maybe only subconsciously). Then you're nothing more than the sleazy salesman.

[–]Geckobird 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I wish I had seen this post and these comments a year ago when I first discovered trp. I've pushed away potential LTR's and fuckbuddies I really liked due to believing being nice and honest was bad. Spent a year being a complete asshole. Had some success with girls, but I felt horrible about it and nothing real or long term came of it and I ended up pushing away people that were good for me and losing friends. Only recently have I learned to balance things better. Now I'm fighting to keep the few friends I still have, and I'm back to where I was before I discovered trp. With 0 women in my life.

Balance is everything. The red pill is good, but you can't go too red.

[–]new_alpha 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I feel you, good luck man. If you need somebody to talk I'm here. We gonna make it.

Life is a constant evolution. Keep evolving, don't be ashamed to learn from your mistakes

[–]Daddie0 6 points7 points  (3 children)

You will see it time and time again. Girls / women will go after guys who are bad for them. You know why? Because most likely those guys are being honest / they DGAF.

Usually when you put them on a pedestal, you are not being honest with her. You are doing all that nice stuff for her because you want to get in her pants, not because you really want to. It shows in your post, you feel you are not getting what you deserve. You aren't as nice as you think you are.

I got to the point in my marriage where the more I kept my mouth shut, not to rock the boat, and just went along with everything she wanted, kept all my feelings / thoughts to myself, guess what happened? I went to having sex with my wife less than 20 times last year. She didn't respect me, and I didn't have respect for myself either. I look back and don't even blame her, I rewarded her bad behavior. I was getting pissed for doing everything for her and not getting what I thought I deserved / sex.

  1. I just recently disagreed with my wife and her sister about "There is never a reason for a man to hit a women, even if she hits him."

  2. IDGAF if she rejects me for sex any more, and she knows it. No expectation to outcome.

  3. I speak my mind without worrying about if I'm going to upset her with my opinion as opposed to hers.

  4. Don't let her mood / emotions effect mine.

To be honest I haven't been perfect, never will be, but a lot better than my BP self over a year ago. Guess what happened?

No lie, I got laid 6 times in the past two weeks, and she was upset because I turned her down a few times in between.

[–]Geckobird 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I was "in love" with a girl once and I did all the blue pill beta stuff because I genuinely wanted to. Not because I was trying to get laid. It obviously didn't work out, but can you not do nice stuff genuinely wanting to without her thinking you're fake?

[–]Daddie0 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yes, you can still do nice stuff for her, but do with without a covert contract, example being, "Oh if I buy her this, or do this for her she will want to fuck me."

If she asks you to do something for her, and you feel like you are being taken advantage of then don't be afraid to politely tell her no. Example being, you are already busy doing something, and she is too lazy to go get something herself, but fully capable at the moment. It's OK to tell her No, I'm busy / in the middle of something.

I'm not saying be a dick and never do anything for her, but you will start to notice where she will ask you to do things to see how / what she can get away with.

A few months ago I brought a bunch of beers up to the refrigerator in the kitchen. I was going in for a beer later, my SIL was there so I asked if she wanted one, and gave her one. A little later my wife comes down notices we are drinking beers and just tells me to go get her one, didn't ask. I told her that there is a bunch in the fridge, I just brought them up. My wife got all pissy about it and then didn't get one, my SIL was even like WTF?. My wife was closer to the fridge than I was when she told me to get her a beer.

Years ago the BP me would have ran to the fridge and got her the beer even though she was closer. Then later she would say "Oh, my <fill in the black> is all the way upstairs, can you go get it for me?" I would probably be already doing something, but old BP me would have stopped what I was doing to go get it for her while she just sat on her ass. I actually thought doing all of this shit for her, making her life easier would make things easier on me, she would be nicer to me and I would get laid more.

As we all know here it was the complete opposite.

I remember two things that happened in my marriage.

One night my wife and I had a fight, this was early in our marriage, we went to bed and I thought I had a snowballs chance in hell of getting laid. I turned over to go to sleep, after a few minutes, she says "I want you to know that I'm still really mad at you, but I really want to have sex with you right now."

Then later when I was at my BP worse. "I could tell you to light yourself on fire and then I'll have sex with you, and you would do it."

You need to respect yourself, do things for yourself. If you are going to do something for someone else, don't expect anything in return. You are doing it because you want to, not because you feel you have to.

And NEVER, NEVER have sex based on conditions.

[–]Geckobird 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If a girl tells me to do something, rather than ask, there's absolutely no way I'm going to do it unless it's an emergency or something of that sort. Even if she asks I probably won't do it, depending on the situation. Only if I genuinely feel like it. And I always teach my girls that if they even want a chance of me doing something for them, they have to learn how to ask nicely. In the moment they get mad or upset, but I can always tell by the look in their eye that it turns them on.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is also a great lesson to destroy the soulmate illusion. Once you realize that someone you have no interest in sees you as their soulmate, it cures you of allowing yourself to see women that way.

[–]Jim_E_Hat 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would say misled, not stupid.

[–]d0lphinsex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

According to the book 'Models' you should have an IDGAF attitude and be truthful to the girl. Tell her you're attracted to her. The more balls you show, the faster you'll get into her pants.

[–]Returnofthemack3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah, the issue is that society hammers home an entirely different message. You're essentially lied to by people you know and the media, so you're in this constant state of mental conflict when it comes to dating and how it 'should be'. If we didn't bullshit the youth, they'd likely grow up and act accordingly, and there woudln't be as much a need for places like TRP.

[–]esirnus18 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wow this hits home or rather high school me. I had huge oneitis on this hottest girl in class, while at the same time completely ignored her less hotter friend. When I look it back now, I see that friend girl wasn't as bad as I thought and she was totally into me I was just blinded buy the hot bitch.

[–]AlerioX 14 points15 points  (1 child)

The first thing I said to my first girlfriend (we were both 17 at that point) was "Fuck off."
She asked me if I could show her where the schools toilets were (we both were new at this school).
From that moment on she was pretty much my sex slave for many months.
Then she started dressing me (yeah, sounds cucked and it is cucked. I let her choose my clothes) and I gave her a lot of presents.
A few weeks after those changes she fucked another guy and ditched me.
AWALT
If you treat women like shit they will treat you like a king.
Of course that's a problem in the workplace where you have to be polite and females will hate you for that type of behaviour.

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Preach it, brother! Been there.

[–]evilkenevil 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Not giving a fuck is my key. But for NGAF to work you must truly NGAF. You must be ready to walk, to not call or text, and to never explain yourself or beg. Women know when you're faking.

Also, top tip, it seems to work A LOT better with very attractive women. I really like HUGE breasts. I can easily walk away from a 10 with a C cup. I truly don't care and it shows. A very attractive woman will get very bothered by the lack of attention I'm giving and my frivolous attitude that just begs to be elsewhere, anywhere, away from her. She degrades herself all on her own without you doing a thing. Now she is ready.

Does it work every time? Heck no. I'm at a wonderful spot in life where I'm happy to go home alone, go for a drive, anything on my own by myself. If it happens it happens. Fuck it.

Also--there's an art to dressing like you don't care. I lived in Newport Beach for awhile and there are some insanely wealthy people that live there part time. I copied their look-always some sort of jeans, high end dress shirt, summer weight blazer, leather loafers. It's expensive but really throws out that "I care enough so I just threw this on from whatever was there" look even though it is quite planned out. I'm comfortable, it really does look good, and it works.

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (3 children)

You, sir, are a true Red Piller. Thank you for your advice!

[–]evilkenevil 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I have to admit it wasn't something I just invented to solve a problem. It came after a huge breakup, so big in fact that I sworn off women for the foreseeable future. No girlfriends, no fuck buddies, no prostitutes, no girls as friends (unless there was simply no way I'd ever sleep with them) no old flings, nothing. Simply nothing.

What came over me was absolute clarity and focus. Everything about my life improved. I liked where I was. Seemingly out of nowhere things started to occur like girls buying me drinks at bars, sending friends over at clubs, etc... I hung out with my male friends exclusively and simply had the time of my life. I traveled the world and did this wherever I went.

Well at some point I needed to get laid. Living in a wealthy community I got to see what perfect 10's were chasing after. I copied that and added my "I don't give a fuck attitude" and now have a life where I have control. It's so great to give off that "NO, NOT YOU" vibe and mean it.

Much of TRP doctrines have to come into play with this to work so I highly recommend going through any RP links. Read all you can. The day is yours.

[–]NikhilHalbe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ah man, I know how it feels to hit rockbottom and lose all faith in relationships. That is the main reason I'm grateful to have found this sub. People like you put invaluable advice which helps the rest of us improve our lives. Thanks a lot and keep up the good work!

[–]Expectations1 23 points24 points  (2 children)

My manager is about a 7/10, fit and slim. I got her to say she dreamt about me not coming back to work after the holidays. Simply by treating her like a person and not some unicorn.

Probably would never have done this pre - redpill, so thanks trp for making my work life pretty easy, she even protects me and fights for me not to get shitty work, little does she know im functioning at about 50%. Now, if only we could do this with the girls we really like and All. The . Time.

[–]NikhilHalbe 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Brilliant! That's exactly how it should be. Women, no matter how beautiful, aren't 'above' you. If you start worshipping her, she'll never feel any attraction. It is only when you unconsciously show her that her beauty does not intimidate/faze you that she knows you're special and above the average men.

[–]WillyWonka321 8 points9 points  (3 children)

I think you are overselling the concept.Sure the IDGAF theory works but I would argue not at the level of which you present it.You say "women will swarm around you like fleas on a turd."..Really?Cumon?Its the guys who are the flies....

[–]NikhilHalbe 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Nah, my man, don't think of yourself as the fly!

The IDGAF theory by itself won't get the job done. When you focus on your career and hobbies and work on improving yourself physically, mentally and socially, you start feeling better about yourself. You radiate that good feeling into the world. Girls pick up on that. That's how you become attractive to women.

You simply need to develop a mentality of abundance. There will always be plenty of women. That's when the IDGAF theory comes into play. You don't care about pleasing some broad. You simply do what you love doing.

[–]king_of_red_alphas 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's totally correct that abundance is needed to truly NGAF. You can't fake it. I think we've all seen guys try to fake not being phased / effected by things and it's almost always cringy.

The chicken and egg problem here, is that abundance "mentality" isn't even enough. You have to have ACTUAL abundance (I.e. Options) not just some philosophical notion that there are "plenty of fish in the sea". That doesn't mean shit if you know that your life circumstances, skills and smv only allow you to cast your reel once or twice a year in polluted waters.

No, you need to know if choice A doesn't want to fuck you, choice B (or C) is a text away.

If you are horny and hard up and talking to a hot ass girl you want to fuck, try all you want - if you don't truly have the option to walk away and be sexually satisfied THAT MOMENT she will know.

[–]Shieldless_One 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly. IDGAF should go hand in hand with game. IDGAF without game has no focus, and game without enough of the IDGAF attitude is creepy.

[–]tanksnshortsman 24 points25 points  (4 children)

Not to burst your bubble but it's also INCREDIBLY likely that the reason you're seeing so much attention from the ugly-average girls is because unlike the 10s you spoke of, they have lower confidence and thus lower standards and thus find you more attractive.

[–]WerewolfofWS 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I disagree with this analysis. This may have been the case ages ago, but now the ugly-average girls are showered with blue pill beta bitch men through tinder, POF, OKCupid etc. that they believe their value to be much higher than it really is.

[–]Mostass 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Truth.

Average girls are harder to pull than hot ones.

Hot girls are showered with compliments and gifts by weak men, constantly having their ass kissed, but when they meet a guy that doesn't do that they will fall hard for him.

Average girls also think they are hot shit while actually hot girls will have the most insecurities.

[–]tanksnshortsman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think the two arguments go hand in hand.

[–]NikhilHalbe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Haha, I can't blame you for thinking that way. But to be honest with you, my ex was atleast an 8. And when I was dating her, there were a lot of 9s who wanted to be with me but couldn't because I was in a committed relationship.

I'd rate myself an 8 in the looks department. Also, I used to be ripped and big. So girls with a good self esteem used to find me desirable as well.

When you have a girlfriend, you tend to pay less attention to other girls even if they are 10s. That's what used to trigger attraction in them. So again, an abundance mindset coupled with an IDGAF attitude towards 10s.

[–]circlhat 6 points7 points  (1 child)

women will swarm around you like fleas on a turd.

It's a bit more than that, I don't know why all the advice lately is forget about girls and they will magically flock to you.

The hardcore Blue Pill beta guy that I was, I always thought being polite and sweet and caring and treating women like princesses would help me attract 10s.

Yes, being overly desperate or overly kind and nice will make you seem like a loser, but this doesn't mean you can't talk to girls or make a move.

That's how you develop an abundance mentality and not give a fuck about whether or not you'll get laid.

But you do give a fuck, and it's perfectly ok to let them know you give a fuck, What I mean is you don't give a fuck if they don't have sex with you, because you will simply find someone else

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When you forget about impressing girls, they notice that you're living for yourself. You don't care about anyone else's approval. Many girls find that sexy.

In my blue pill days, I did confess my feelings to girls. But due to my overly gentlemanly nature, I ended up becoming that close friend who has no chance of becoming a boyfriend.

I agree with your last para though. Show them that you'll be happy regardless of getting laid.

[–]BestSC86 4 points5 points  (1 child)

One additional thought...

Many guys don't realize just how far they actually have to go to do this.

Remember one girl before I got better who I actually thought I was being a complete indifferent ass toward on every occasion. Turns out after we got together and talking, she actually told me that she was over the hill crazy for me because she knew I was a recovering asshole who was at least trying to be nice...when I was actually going the other way, a nicer guy trying my hardest to be an asshole.

Holy cow, I thought, my naive asshole level was still miles inside girl's total jerkasshole threshold. It made me wonder just how far I could push until I crossed over that line....it was ALOT.

[–]NikhilHalbe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I guess girls are used to having guys bending over backwards for them these days (all credit to feminism). So when they see someone behaving like an asshole with them, it subconsciously tells them that the guy has an abundance mindset and that he is not like the other betas.

Thanks for sharing your experience. 👍🏻

[–]UpTheSuit 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Look, I get this idea. But I have not fully understood this.

When your reply always takes longer than hers or just reply with one word, girls just loose interest as well. The same goes with real world interaction at work or school. How do you become the one they try to get attention from, and not, oh he is just not interested in me.

In my opinion the playing-hard-to-get works only if you are that over the top cool guy, who has the best body and fashion style and so on. Otherwise you are just a that-random-guy-who-doesn't-care-about me.

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't overdo the DGAF theory. Sometimes it's good to be a little invested in them.

Sometimes, not always.

The guys who are ALWAYS and FULLY invested in a girl are the ones who end up in the friendzone. It shows the girl that he probably doesn't have better things to do with his life.

I'm not telling you to completely ignore women. Approach them if you feel like. But don't attach yourself to the outcome. Develop a mindset where you'll be absolutely okay even if she rejects you because you have tons of girls waiting.

By ALWAYS replying to her immediately, by ALWAYS being available, you're only showing her that she's your priority. That reduces attraction no matter what Tumblr tells you.

Be involved, but aloof.

[–]rednecknobody 2 points3 points  (1 child)

treat them like shit and you will be a king to them .,works like 99.9%of the time otherwise just date junkies.

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, 'shit' is a strong word but yes, I get your point brother. 👍🏻

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I struggle with showing women attention while not giving a fuck.

For instance, there was this cute chick with a killer ass at the gym walking by me over and over and kind of glancing my was as I was using a machine/resting between sets.

I just sat their and looked off in a neutral direction, fully aware of what she was doing. I haven't recalibrated yet to where I can show interest while not caring much about them. It's partly because I was very blue pill in the past and this chick would've made me nervous and I would've gotten goofy. It feels better right now to just ignore bitches.

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha, I struggled with it too, my man.

Next time you see her (or any other hot girl who seems like she is showing interest) in the gym, just give her a casual smile the moment you lock eyes and then carry on with your workout.

This way, she'll know that you acknowledged her and at the same time your workout is more important to you than chitchatting with her.

[–]Schhwing 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Truth in here.

Also upvoted for the phrase "wank my wonga". You have to be an Aussie.

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hahaha nah man. Just a little brown guy from Mumbai.

[–]Schhwing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well with your sense of humour you'd fit right in. Much luck brother.

[–]TheYoungOwl_ 5 points6 points  (4 children)

There's this virgin who just turned 18 I used to work with, (restaurant) even when she wasn't 18 I would flirt and say nasty shit to her. Still does t give a fuck and still gives me attention.

Women don't care if you're attractive enough.

[–]electricqueer points points [recovered]

How nasty though? How old are you?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

You know what used to work for me without even trying to pick up women? Just insult/shit talk their competition.There have been many occasions where women didnt talk to me until I started talking shit to or about their rival.Then, bam!!! Somehow I became the hottest shit around. I wasn't even trying to impress them or pick any of those sluts up.It got to the point where i'd have to talk shit to them to get rid of them..

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn. That's new. Will surely try it out someday.

[–]The_M0rning_Star 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Somehow I became the hottest shit around

Good shit talking requires intelligence and poise. You've got to remain calm, and not let their attacks hit you personally. Then you have to be witty enough to keep the shit talking going. You engaged her goddamned mind with wit, charm, and poise. That's what they liked. Not the actual shit talking, that's stupid. That's why they leave when you talk actual shit to them.

[–]bowie747 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This post doesn't actually explain psychologically or economically how NGAF works. It just explains that it does work, which we already know.

We need to go deeper

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I apologise for that. It's my first post here. I know I should have explained how it works but that would make the post too long.

I thought most people wouldn't be bothered about the details of how it works as long as it works. I mean, when you feel hot, you just press the switch of the fan. You don't bother to worry about how the electricity flows from the flip of the switch to the fan.

As for the explanation, check out some of the top comments. They explained it perfectly!

[–]Fnaut3187 4 points5 points  (13 children)

Good post! You forgot to mention an obligatory AWALT!

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (12 children)

I'm sorry I'm new here. What does AWALT stand for? Also, I don't understand many of the abbreviations used here. Could you please give me a link regarding that? Thanks.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

All Women Are Like That = AWALT

[–]Trumpler157 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm reasonably new here as well. The sidebar is the best place to start and has a list of abbreviations.

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'm using Reddit on my phone. Can't see any sidebar here. :(

[–]The_M0rning_Star -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

Don't listen to this one. All women are not the same, and that's really childish to assume, to be honest. Before you jump down my throat for daring to say that answer me this question:

If they're all exactly the same, why the fuck shit do you need to screw different ones?

[–]Geckobird 1 point2 points  (0 children)

AWALT = All women are CAPABLE of being like that

[–]NikhilHalbe 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Ofcourse, all women aren't the same. No sane person would think so.

I guess what he was trying to say is that all women behave the same way under a certain circumstance.

[–]Scroph 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Here's my take on AWALT : Saying "all women are the same" is like a hardcore feminist saying "all men are rapists", and yet, many TRP subscribers embrace one saying while outright rejecting the other. What they really mean is that all men are potential rapists. Generally speaking, all humans have potential for evil (men and women just differ in how they inflict it upon others, the former being more aggressive and the latter more manipulative according to Louis CK), but we don't necessarily act on it. We're beasts of instinct after all, but what differentiates us from animals is we're also governed by reason and morality, and sometimes that overrides our instinctive programming.

When you're interacting with someone, it's up to you to gauge how likely that person is to display evil. TRP preaches a defensive approach (like it does with texting), that of assuming all women will act on their instincts and hurt you as a consequence. In making such an assumption, you will find yourself to be both mentally and physically prepared should a situation like that arise. Your GF cheats on you or your wife elopes with someone else ? No problem, she was never yours to start with. The glass is already broken, and whatever other cliché quote you can think of. The problem with this mental model is that while effective, it will also distance you from your significant other, keep you on your toes and make it difficult for you to trust others. Ironically, this constitutes a decent short-term sexual strategy. Long term relationships will require you to periodically open up to her in order to fuel the relationship. It's a delicate balance, if you're too open then she'll get bored and if you're too distant, she'll realize that you aren't relationship material and leave you (but probably keep you as a booty call).

Whether or not this philosophy is fair to women is not the question since TRP is, after all, amoral (not to be confused with immoral). It provides you with a tool set and lets you choose whether or not to use it. Many TRP scholars (LOL) believe that you either accept it all (swallow the pill whole) or you're just fooling yourself, while others think that it's a buffet from which you pick whatever you like and discard the rest. I'm more of an in-between guy but if pressed, I would go for the latter. I recommend you read the sidebar and form your own opinion on the matter.

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks man. I'd upvote this a 100 times if I could. You should make a post about this. Many people here need to see this!

[–]Jtr334 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Automatic upvote for using Hodgetwins lingo ;)

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Haha I was hoping atleast ONE person would notice. 😂

[–]hamstercide 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's simple. You're in their league.

[–]Walaishy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The nice-guys-finish-last mentality is a little misleading. At the heart of the problem is assumption. We use assumptions all the time as part of our life in order to simplify things but we must be aware of them or they can ruin our lives.

The first assumption is the crush. This is not always present but when it is, it generally comes up first. When we develop a crush we start convincing ourselves of absolutes such as "she's the only girl for me" or "I can't live without her" etc. Of course this isn't true but because it feels so real it alters our perception of her before we even interact.

Next, is value. We need to justify our value to meet this high standard we've given to her. We've likely already found a scale of value and a way to demonstrate it at this point. We then use our ranking on this scale to convince ourselves of our own worth to support an argument to approach her.

Value in this context can mean different things to different people. For some, it's having a fast car. For others it's working out or having money. Whatever was prioritized during childhood usually wins as most valuable.

This is followed by the approach. Now that we've determined that our value meets the standard, we approach and engage. We use a lot of dressy language in order to ask a very simple question: Do you value me as a person?

When rejected, it creates a problem that someone that we hold in high regard has questioned our value. This means we must either question our own value or lower the standard of the person giving the opinion. The second one is a lot easier to accept and so the insults start.

The thing is though, none of this is real. It is all an elaborate plan we construct to make our lives more predictable. When part of the plan doesn't meet with our expectations we lose control. That can have severe consequences.

The assumptions we made here involve the standard we have held her to, the value that we place on ourselves, our rank on that metric, expectation of response, and asking her to rate our value. In reality this is just two human beings interacting to see if their lifestyles are compatible enough to engage in a mutually beneficial arrangement. As soon as we set up expectations we are preparing to disappoint ourselves. That is the problem with assumptions.

The nice-guys-finish-last perspective assumes that what they are doing is nice. They are also the ones that are making the determination about what makes something nice. So really all they are doing is following their own agenda and labeling that agenda Nice. Meanwhile, women suffering from their own insecurities, see someone that they can control and mistakenly believe that it will give them control over their life and the friend-zone is born. The problem isn't being nice. The problem is understanding what being nice means.

[–]firegod97 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I liked because of the hodgetwin reference. W

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Go balls deep inside those walls and start bustin' all kinds of nuts. ALL KINDZZZZZ.

[–]redgrin_grumble 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like a screen door on a battleship

[–]greenjaden 1 point2 points  (1 child)

There is a deeper truth to all of this. DGAF relates to the Buddhist concept of non-attachment. You have an intention of what you want, like wanting to sleep with a girl. But there's no attachment to the end result, so there's no pressure. If it doesn't work out, so what, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

[–]TheNoncaringMurse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is why I say stay off the dating websites as well. If you are going to not watch porn then don't go on fantasy relationship porn aka dating sites as well. Women are heavily favored in the dating site world and men are expected to conform to the wishlists of women who aren't worth their wishlists.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Yup, be yourself. You're not an actor.

[–]Flynn-Lives 1 point2 points  (0 children)

*Be the best version of yourself

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True. Be the best you can be!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Noticed this whenever I've not been attracted to someone so you kinda play off and ignore their advances and it drives them crazy so they try even harder

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. Be a challenge for em!

[–]aazav 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They want part of that perceived advantage that you have.

[–]thechaosz 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Great post, it has worked miracles for me.

I'm afraid I still go back sometimes to BP ways as well in relationships, arguing with woman etc.

Just for our educating what did you do to "screw it up"?

[–]NikhilHalbe 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Thanks mate. And yes, it happens to most of us. We tend to go back to the BP ways because it feels like the 'safer' option. We'll get past that though.

I screwed up big time, man. 1 year into the relationship I was not the same person I was when she fell for me. I used to be awesome and had a winner's mentality. Gradually, it all went away and I became a beta BP guy.

I did what all mainstream magazines and tumblr tell you to do. I put her on a pedestal. Treated her like a Queen. My world used to revolve around her. I always put her needs before mine. Whenever I had some extra savings from my pocket money, I used to take her shopping to buy clothes and shoes for her instead of buying PS3 games for myself. I thought that if I do all this, she'll love me more. Boy, was I wrong.

All it did was put an obligation on her. The respect kinda disappeared. She used to get hit on by other guys which used to make me insecure. For some reason, my abundance mindset disappeared. I thought I'll never get a girl half as good as her. So I became needy and insecure. It used to reflect in my behaviour.

Now that I even think about it, I feel ashamed of what I had become. No wonder why she left me.

I made this post so that others don't make the same mistakes I made. If I had the abundance mentality back then while dating her, I would have completed almost 5 years with her now.

Sorry for the rant.

[–]Sam571 points points [recovered]

kinda late, just now ran across this thread, but can you answer a quick question?

After you left your BP ways (because you seem to be doing fine now) did she ever come back? have you talked to her since then?

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She's my FWB now. She dated 3 guys after me. She cheated on all of them with me. I did feel a little guilty but hey, I don't owe them anything. I'm horny, she's horny, we fuck.

She never asked me explicitly if I want to get back together. She knows my answer will be a resounding NO and that I have other plates. But she does feel attracted to me a lot now that I have things going for me.

[–]En-Zu 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Statements like "these ugly girls i didn't care about were all over me" makes me think it's more about just being more attractive than the other people than the idgaf attitude sometimes.

I'm more convinced by the posts that demonstrate that that approach works on women that are objectively more attractive than the OP.

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We subconsciously treat those women better who we think are attractive and 'above' us. We don't do that with girls who are average or below average looking because we don't want anything from them and thus, we tend to just be ourselves without holding anything back.

What I was trying to say is that we must first be happy and satisfied with our lives regardless of getting laid with hot girl. When you do that, even the hottest of girls won't faze you. You'll subconsciously know that YOU are above them and there are many hot girls who would love to be with you. This reflects in your behaviour/actions.

When they realise that you don't really care much about getting in their pants, they'll crave for your attention. Your mindset should be "I want you, but I don't need you."

[–]Mckallidon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The more fucks I give, the more I feel cheated in life.

[–]personanongrata45 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If you want to be respected by men, respect them first. If you want to be respected by women, do not respect them. It's the simple truth.

My moral code is very strict and this only hurts me. I tried to change myself before, but my life was very very chaotic. The long story short: I don't have any energy to change. I'm red pill aware blue pill guy. And as you guess, i never get laid.

So it's my advice. If you want to get laid with girls do not "love" and "respect" them. Nice guys finish last. If your moral standards are too high, forget about women.

[–]Sherlock--Holmes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get laid a lot, and I love and respect them. I don't put up with bullshit though, and haven't married one yet (age 49). Been with hundreds of women. Red pill before it was a thing, just having my cake and eating it too.

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yessir. Learnt that the hard way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Confirmed dirt bag Chad here: I constantly make fun of women and have poor hygiene. Just put an add on Craigslist for sex, had lots.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Read the book "subtle art of not giving a fuck" by mark Manson. Reading it now and so far it's a complete 10/10

[–]bowlin_forsalad 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I have the kind of problem where I just generally don't give a fuck about people, which extends to women. As a result nothing ends up happening and I'm left alone. Somehow I still don't give a fuck but it would be nice to have a girlfriend right now. I'm apathetically lonely

[–]Sherlock--Holmes 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You have to actually not give AF, not play the role. You have to still want it, just not need it.

[–]NikhilHalbe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wanting, not needing. Spot on.

[–]psychonauticusURSUS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Been doing that IDGAF attitude since I was like 14. Has always worked wonders for me. Almost all of the girlfriends and lays I've had in life came from the woman approaching me and being forward with me. They get turned on by that detached aloofness and want to find out more about you. It also helps that I'm 6'4.

[–]dissentforall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think I've ever slept with a woman who hasn't called me jackass, asshole or jokingly told me to fuck off beforehand. Not giving a fuck works so well and they know it, in fact most of them hate the fact that they can't control being attracted to men who DGAF.

[–]g4casting 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Totally, the time where I got with the most girls in my life were the times where I was the busiest and happiest with myself.

Also, I found out about this with texting. Couple times I was texting with a girl, some random banter, and then I thought of something extremely aggressive (sexually) and bold to text. Before I had the idgaf mentality I would never have sent those texts, but then I was like "bah, so what if she doesn't like it". Those texts instantly triggered sexual attraction and eventually fucking.

[–]Arie_R 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The friendzone is a myth. Your problem is that you apparently were not behaving in your natural manner with women you were trying to impress so you probably came across as awkward/creepy/anxious (or you were aiming way out of your league) whereas with women you are not attracted to, you relax, speak your mind and are able to interact in your natural disposition. The latter is the best way to interact with people because eventually that's how you will act. If you would attract someone while acting like someone else, any relationship you'll have will very likely fail.

[–]Amon_Amarth_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find its as simple as leaving girls on ice for a couple days no matter what if you want em. Just text em then get a text back and ignore for a couple days. Usually come back with something unrelated start a new convo. Then eventually just ask her out when I FEEL LIKE IT AND NOT HER. (Want to emphasize that dont wait for her to be ready)

[–]XanderS311 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's fine to NGAF about what women think of you, and I completely agree that men being far too concerned with pleasing a woman and desperately trying to avoid upsetting them really turns women off. However, it is very important to remember that passion is very attractive to women- having opinions and actually thinking about things differentiate you from being "just another guy". If there's one thing you must avoid, it's being seen as JAG. Too many guys are boring, banal and have nothing interesting going on in their lives, which is why being your own point of origin is so important.

[–]just_waitforit 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm going to finish reading, but had to stop when I read "no fap for two months."

I don't want to sound immature, but my nuts would kill me.

I hope you mean no fap with porn, and not just all together.

Carry on brother.

[–]NikhilHalbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can understand where you're coming from. It would seem impossible for me too.

Back then, I had a very tight schedule. 6 hrs of classes, 2 hrs of football practice, and whenever I was at home, 1.5 hrs of working out, and studying and doing homework.

I used to be exhausted. Hardly got any time to sit idle. As they say, an empty mind is a devil's workshop. Since my mind was always occupied with one thing or another, I actually FORGOT about fapping and watching porn for 2 months.

Also, in the book 'Think and Grow Rich', Napoleon Hill talks about sexual transmutation. Transmuting your sexual energy to your work and hobbies works wonders.