FinanceMoney Will Make You Happy (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

The single largest determinant of a stress-free, happy life is wealth. Anyone trying to convince you otherwise is the blue pill on your left shoulder. Women will not make you happy. New sneakers or a new jacket will not make you happy. That fourth sushi roll will not make you happy. A Mercedes in your driveway will only bring you happiness if you could've afforded the Ferrari.

It is important to distinguish between fiscal wealth and material wealth. When you hear that money can't buy happiness, you're not exactly being lied to. Money cannot buy you happiness. Money is happiness. Money is security. Money is comfort.

As a poster here once wrote, money is the life of the mind. Debt is slavery. For as long as you remain in debt, you remain detached. You cannot give and be your full self. Are you anxious? How's your money situation? Are you depressed? How's your money situation? Are you feeling lazy? How's your money situation?

Red pill theory is nothing without financial comfort. Nothing. You can lift your ass off. You can buy some cool shirts. You can read. Got no job? No money? 2 credit cards maxed out and student loans up the ass? No plan for the future? None of it matters.

Earn, budget, save, invest. It will red-pill you quicker than anything you can imagine.

[–]1Kite_Blight 187 points188 points  (8 children)

The way it was explained to me and resonated with me: Money can buy freedom and freedom buys happiness.

The ability to do what you want when you want is very powerful.

And money can aid in that, if used correctly.

[–]Slayerz2000 58 points59 points  (3 children)

It's the philosophy of fuck you money. Boss gives you trouble? Fuck you, I'm out. Bitch of a girlfriend has all your stuff hostage at her place? Fuck you, I'll buy more. Having that ability would be the most freeing thing in the material world that I can think of.

[–]InfiniteAscent 9 points10 points  (0 children)

fuck-you money is simply the ability to say IDGAF with full honesty.

[–]HesAGoodfella 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Well said.

Attaining peace of mind can be immensely challenging when you're stuck playing a specific role that conflicts with your nature (passions and inclinations) on a daily basis. While being forced to stick to a set job schedule and list of requirements often does wonders for cultivating discipline, true and lasting power is found only in possessing complete autonomy over your every decision.

Determining what is and is not important in your life opens results in the ability to find contentment with little (great test for one seeking to embrace a Stoic of outcome independent mindset) while amassing a fortune with the funds left over opens the door to almost limitless possibilities.

Embarking on the path to financial independence one of the most important things I've ever done and I attempt to share the benefits of it whenever someone is willing to make the change. There are diminishing returns to material items, but wealth brings with it time, and time is invaluable.

[–]br_21 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Correct. It's not just having money, it's the attitude towards having it and acquiring it. Wealth should be to act as an enabler, not a disabler. Warren Buffet's wealth allows him to do what he loves to do, which is invest. Someone who inherited great fortune may feel wealth bore from those that preceded them a burden which predetermines their identity and sets acquired expectation, in effect limiting them.

[–]RedNightOwl points points [recovered]

Money is happiness, its power as well. Everything in life, every action, motive revolves around two things, money and power. - 50th Law - Robert Greene.

[–]dustyh55 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Meh, I think of money and power like a boat, and you need to get to an island or whatever. You need the boat, and when you get the boat (through hard work or it's simply given to you), you're happy because you can now get to where you need to go, you're progressing. Problem is that when people finally get to the shore, they don't want to get off. They want to stick with the boat as it's a symbol of progress and they're scared of moving forward and leaving the safe and familiar. So they keep building their boat bigger and bigger, even though they can't get anywhere new they couldn't before. Then they see others building their boats bigger and think they must know something they don't, so they try and build their boat bigger, to no actual end but the means itself.

There was a study done that suggested money is a proponent of happiness, but only until ~70k a year, then it's just frivolous and we start to see diminishing returns.

Can money/power be a step towards happiness? Yes.

Can money/power buy happiness? If it can buy what you need to progress towards happiness and you know what to buy, then yes, indirectly.

Is money/power happiness? No, and that just seems silly, imo.

[–]kyledontcare 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, it won't buy happiness; but it sure as heck gives you options and things to do besides chasing women.

[–]HS-Thompson 40 points41 points  (17 children)

I've been literally flat broke as an adult, and I've had way too much money, more than I really knew what to do with at times. I can say with authority that having the money is a very key component to happiness and the general thrust of this post is correct.

I believe strongly that having way too much money and way too much pussy, for at least awhile, is something every TRP minded man should do in their life.

Yes, if you achieve that state and then decide the tradeoffs aren't for you and want to live a more minimalist life, then fantastic. If you have way more hot pussy at your disposal than you could have imagined, and then decide to raise a family, that's your choice too.

As long as those are informed choices, made from a position of abundance. If you've never experienced that kind of true abundance then you're going to die wondering.

[–]Returnofthemack3 12 points13 points  (1 child)

the thing is, being wealthy ALLOWS you to live a minimalist life that's comfortable. Knowing that you can live minimally without financial issues is comforting. If i'm forced to live minimally, i'm probably not comfortable and if something were to occur, i'd quickly slip into debt.

A lot of people fail to realize this. Being wealthy just allows you to live the way you want without anxiety. plenty of wealthy people that buy modest properties and try to save money via secondhand goods, sales etc. I know quite a few people like this. You can tell their contentment is in part due to the finacnial security they know they have

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly. That's why I want to be filthy rich. So that I can do whatever I want and god forbid some huge expense comes up, I don't have to stress about it.

Sure I would travel more, buy a few expensive clothing items and things like that, but I don't need to live in some crazy big mansion and have the most expensive cars. Money means freedom.

Look up Dan Bilzerian and how he talks about the fact that money has allowed him to set up his life in a way that allows him to do the things he wants.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I've been literally flat broke as an adult, and I've had way too much money, more than I really knew what to do with at times.

The problem with going from one to the other is people around you change and not for the better.

[–]HS-Thompson 12 points13 points  (0 children)

That's how I really came to TRP honestly. Losing literally everything including your own family teaches you a lot about human nature.

[–]Gervant_of_Lyria 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good, this way you can easily weed out the people who don't care about you and keep in your life only those who really matter.

[–]flyercomet 14 points15 points  (11 children)

I don't understand how you can have too much money. There are more investment opportunities than you or I can imagine.

[–]jt3611 4 points5 points  (10 children)

I think what he means is that he had enough money to do what he wanted and still had some left over.

[–]HS-Thompson 13 points14 points  (9 children)

Yes pretty much. When you get to a point where you can go to basically any restaurant that exists without looking up how much it costs, or fly to any place in the world and stay there for a week to join your friends whatever their plans are without even thinking about it, life feels a little different.

Obviously there is a lot of room to grow above that point, and for every person reading this their definition of "too much money" is going to be slightly different. For me I think I started feeling that way when I first started making more than a couple hundred grand a year. For someone else it could be more or less, it's the visceral experience of abundance that matters.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

What do you do for a living? How are you making that money?

[–]jt3611 5 points6 points  (5 children)

There's actually a specific amount, somewhere in the 70k range, that for the average American family they feel the increase of wealth less after earning x amount. Basics are covered, nice cars, nice house, etc. Now you just have more to invest and watch grow but your day to day doesn't really change much.

[–]HS-Thompson 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I've read about that too. That's not really what I'm talking about though. That's probably a decent definition of "enough" money. I'm talking about feeling like you have way too much money, where you do a bunch of stupid shit and spend a little recklessly for a few months and look at your bank balance and think wow that's like way higher than I expected. When your income well outpaces your lifestyle. When on a day to day basis it doesn't really matter what things cost.

Most people never really get there. I'd say earning more than twice as much as you "need" is a minimum in this context.

The comparison with pussy is a good example. The average person thinks a couple relationships then a life partner is normal. So like pushing that a little and having a few one night stands doesn't count as having way too much pussy. I'm talking about having fucked at least a dozen bonafide smoking hot model/actress level attractive women.

In both cases it's not normal at all, it's about being in the top 1% of your surroundings, at least for awhile. I do believe it's something every TRP aware man should aspire to.

Look at the average guy's physical fitness and then think about what our standard is here. Your standards for financial fitness and sexual experiences should be just as high.

[–]bteh 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm in that life situation, stumbled here blindly by pure luck, but I'll take it.

Single, no kids, no debt, 6 figure a year job, just turned 29, loved by friends and family. I love my life, I wish everyone was in my situation.

[–]yomo86 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Saturation and satisfaction is the peril of modern men.

As Trump once said: "Money was never a big motivation for me, except as a way to keep score."

[–]jt3611 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was thinking of Bernie Madoff the other day. What's the difference between a 500 million and 18 billion. His life couldn't have been THAT MUCH different, right? But he drew all this attention to himself due to his immense wealth and success. Was it "keeping score" that led him to his ultimate downfall?

This really has nothing to do with the overall conversation here, but it just popped back into my head.

[–]flyercomet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the focus on income is misleading. I'm more interested in wealth.

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (4 children)

Having money isn't everything; not having money, is.

[–]BreathOfDick 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Pretty much what I've learned over the past year. Money does not matter for shit when you have all you need and then some.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Most accurate response. Success buys time and freedom but if your life is empty from things like friendship and hobbies and activities you won't be happy.

[–]Rommel0502 17 points18 points  (5 children)

I've lost count how many times I've suggested this here. I've actually grown tired of trying to convince guys here that its infinitely better to be in the top 5% of wealth than it is the top 5% of looks. With the former you have control over every facet of your life. With the latter you have control over just one.

Im in my late 40s now. I've went through stages of my life when I had one or the other, and both and neither. I can say without fear of contradiction that having high wealth is leagues better than being jacked. The utility difference isn't even in the same stratosphere.

From a market perspective, there is a reason that being in the top 5% wealth is infinitely more difficult than being in the top 5% jacked. The latter can be achieved in a year with perhaps ten hours a week commitment. The former perhaps in twenty years with 100 hour a week commitment, and even then its far from guaranteed.

Edit - I can say in my case having money has only increased my desire to be jacked. Ive found great success in one area of your life gives confidence that spills over into others. If I was sweating to make ends meet the last thing Id be thinking about is getting to the gym. These days, its just part of my routine.

[–]KINGahRoo 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Thank you for this! Mid 20s here and have been saving a few years now. Reassuring to hear this from you

[–]Rommel0502 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Great, but dont only save - think about the market. One of the worst things we ask our children is "What do you want to do?" Guess what, the market doesn't pay you for doing what YOU want to do. I want to bang Colombian hookers all day but unfortunately no one will pay me to do that. The market pays you for adding value to others. Think about what others need and would be willing to pay you for. Then do it better than anyone else.

Good luck my friend.

[–]ChadThundercockII 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Colombian hookers

This the number one reason why I want to be rich

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is true. I'm not bragging, but I have been jacked pretty much since at least high school. It's not that hard, if you are consistent with you diet, stay active by working out or sports and constantly pushing yourself.

Money is a lot different and something I am making an effort to improve on. It takes a lot more effort to get a degree that allows you to make money, run a business or be really good at a sales-type of position.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Seinfeld, after he made his first couple hundred mill, was asked about money. He said: "The best part about having money is not having to think about it anymore." Totally agree.

[–]Rommel0502 13 points14 points  (4 children)

My former career was a long stint on Wall St, so I have many friends who are rather wealthy. I can tell you that I have never heard a single one of them ever imply that money does not lead straight to happiness. That said, whenever I have heard someone claim the opposite, they have ALWAYS been someone from the middle class or below.

Its just human nature - if you don't have something, you will rationalize why that thing isn't important globally so therefore it isn't important to you. Its why "the rich" are vilified so often just for being rich.

One more time, I grew up dirt poor. Neither one of my parents graduated high school. I put myself through college because of hard work and to Wall St through hustle. When I opened my own business, it started as me on the phone in a 10x10 windowless office. Now, at 48, I don't work day to day anymore and have more money than I will ever be able to spend. I've been very far on both sides of that fence. I can tell you without hesitation that few things suck more than having no money, and nothing is better than having it in excess. My life has turned out better than my wildest dreams, and I can say that largely (but not entirely) because of my monetary station.

Live in your dream house. Drive your dream car. Have the respect of all of those around you. Mingle in the ruling class social circles. Never worry about paying a bill ever again. Go out to eat wherever you want, whenever you want. Same for travel. On and on. I currently live this and I can tell you with complete honesty there is fucking NOTHING like it, and anyone who has really been there will tell you the same thing. Im not telling you this from a bullshit study done by some academic who is in the same boat. Im telling you this from a lifetime of experience on both sides. Do it, and you will fully agree. I guarantee it.

[–]WerewolfofWS 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Don't you think they're attracted more to the high of winning and making a solid deal/investment than just receiving cash?

Idk I know trust-fund baby friends that just stay in their mansions and are miserable even though they have literally enough money to buy whatever they want really.

[–]Rommel0502 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is definitely a component of winning vs losing, with dollars being the score.

[–]Isdogatree 12 points13 points  (2 children)

If you're young, its better to find your true passion, get good at it as only truly passionate people can get and then monetize it.

If you already have obligations, going for money is not a bad choice.

[–]InflatableRaft 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If you find something that you are truly passionate about, making it your job is the quickest way to kill any joy it brings.

[–]LittiJari 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Money DOES make you happy. I was broke one year ago, then inherited a fortune and now I feel completely different person!

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

And if you had worked long and hard for it, you'd feel like a God

[–]LittiJari 4 points5 points  (1 child)

True. Still, the sense of freedom that I've got right now is amazing compared to the frustration one year ago.

[–]FuckyouAvast 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think you may be confusing relief with happiness.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Nah, you'd probably be stressed and burned out.

[–]Rommel0502 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely not. My career and monetary success does nothing but fuel the fire more and increase my drive and confidence. There is really nothing in life like it.

[–]Senior Contributordeepthrill 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Many of my blue-pill friends use excuses like "to make more money would require more stress". Bullshit. Maybe for some types of jobs, but most high-performing jobs are going to be stressful to some degree if you're pushing yourself and giving something your all.

Money is one thing that links nearly every human on the planet. We've drilled down the value of every event, every situation, every location, every culinary item, every incentive over another human, to a simple dollar amount. And there's nothing wrong with that. Men don't complain; they look at the systems in front of them and optimize for that.

You can make people do things by paying them enough money. You can shape industries, you can purchase influence, you can never have to worry about the price tag of anything you desire. You can make women wet with enough money ("oh it's blue-pill to be a beta bux!" - you certainly don't need money to make women wet, but you could if you wanted to).

All the people who spout some bullshit often-debunked "fact" that "if you make more than $70k/year you do not get happier!" have never brushed shoulders with the truly wealthy. Many people secretly wish they could be happy and feel comfortable with their mediocrity because they are scared to leave their comfort zones.

I promise you that if you've interacted with enough multi-millionaires for enough time (even if you're not one yourself yet), and saw their lifestyle, you would never make such bullshit claims.

Rant over. Back to work go grow some financial wealth.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Most people have no clue of how to become a millionaire. It's an impossibility to them so they make such claims. All they know is go to college and find a job, in most cases you're not going to become some Bill Gates by doing that and they know that.

[–]Senior Contributordeepthrill 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'd recommend two things for such people:

  1. http://wallstreetplayboys.com/

  2. Read the book How to Get Rich by Felix Denis

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Invest a few hundred a month in a medium-risk, high-yield mutual fund and you'll have a million dollars in 20-25 years. Maybe more than a million.

[–]thatbrofoshow points points [recovered]

Without sounding like a cunt... I'm a 29, "self-made" millionaire, have looks and in good shape, health, great family and friends. I'm lucky. By all but the most ridiculous standards, I have it all. Am I happy? Meh, sorta. I'd say I'm a 6/10 on the happiness scale. There are people all over the world living in poverty that are happier than me.

It's been shown that a certain threshold of money or income will increase happiness but the correlation is minimal after a point (not THAT high either). I don't have the numbers but I wana say it's something like 100k/yr to a single man.

Reflecting back on my life I'd say my happiness has been overall fairly consistent but the peak was times during college when I was broke but partying and hanging with friends. It's never been a 9 or 10 happiness though. And I don't think it ever will be.

My opinion is that people are kinda wired in a way that keeps them in a certain range of happiness. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I'm obsessive when I get into things. In my career no achievement was ever good enough. It felt good for a brief time but there was always the drive to push it more and get to the next level. This carries over in day to day life type stuff too. I think a lot of high achievers have this in common. It's good in a sense to where it pushes you to reach high goals but in the end you're never really content. It's a catch 22.

For the point of the post I agree, guys should be striving to make enough $ to where they can within reason buy the things they want and don't ever have to worry about bills. It takes some stress away sure. But driving a Ferrari instead of an infiniti won't make you any happier tbh. At least non of that did for me.

I'd say one of the greatest gifts having a lot of $ gives you is the freedom. If I decide to work again the $ I'd make at a given job will have no influence on whether I choose to do it, and that's pretty cool I guess.

[–]yomo86 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your happiness lies in more ethereal or call it spiritual things like family, friends or finally mastering the F-chord, which is admirable.

There was a time I could give zero fucks about other people or non-monetary things simply by having to think about how the hell I should make this month's rent.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 0 points1 point  (3 children)

If you wish to return to your college lifestyle, feel free to wire me some of that cash.

By the way, how does a millionaire stumble across a sub like this?

[–]thatbrofoshow points points [recovered]

To be clear I'm not some tech guru multi millionaire. I hit a weird opportunity in its prime and became one of the best at it. Made 1<x<10 million at it, saved a bunch, x went to shit and I didn't like it anymore anyways so I retired, for now.

A friend and I were discussing what websites we visit often. He mentioned several manosphere ones. I checked them out and eventually found TRP. Maybe 6 mo ago. I haven't exactly struggled with girls but I def haven't realized my potential either.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I don't know how non-celebrity rich people find girls or if you have a social rep to protect, but this is what I'd do with your resources. Beyond basic frame, laws, and female nature, forget the rest. You don't need it. You've got money.

If you don't wanna go the escort route (you could afford 10's on a regular basis) or sugar daddy websites and wish to attract women organically: Get some gainz and have small (survielled) place specifically for hoes. Then make a tinder profile with a fake name. Flash gainz, flash the cash, be cocky as fuck. They will flock to you. Then take them to your Tinder whore house in groups with a limo (so they don't know your license plate). Afterwards, they leave, and you can resume your normal personality and life anonymously.

Total cost: ~1000/mo for the apartment. That's chump change for you. This requires no effort on your part.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 33 points34 points  (13 children)

The research is with you.

Increased annual income up to about $50-60k is correlated with happiness. After that it doesn't make much difference.

After that you are better off getting other things out of life than just more money.

If you have $60k coming in without debts or dependents, you can look pretty fucking wealthy. Great house, all the gadgets, good car and no financial worries.

Most importantly - no financial worries. 3-6 mths outgoings safely in the bank. You can go on holiday and indulge your favourite weird sport.

For men abundance is attraction, and abundance isn't having it all, abundance is having "more than enough".

[–]dopest_dope 13 points14 points  (5 children)

not in Los Angeles you can't

[–]The_Prince_of_LA 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah, in LA happiness starts at $500k-600k

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Sure, it does depend somewhat where you are, of course. Stats are for normal western cities.

[–]dopest_dope 5 points6 points  (0 children)

maybe if you are talking 60K after taxes.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 10 points11 points  (0 children)

A non-father with $60k after tax cash workin just 40/week is great. If you're not a status signaler or consumerist zombie, that's way more beyond your needs/wants.

[–]555553211 points points [recovered]

Having high income does not equate to wealth. If you're trading your time for money you're still a modern slave.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 11 points12 points  (0 children)

If you're trading your time for money you're still a modern slave

Not really.

Every creature pays its way in some way. Noone and nothing gets a free ride.

Slave = all your value is owned by someone else.

I don't buy this "wageslave" shit that everyone today uses as an excuse for being lazy.

Everyone wants to be free and have everything supplied by everyone else. Generating the wealth to do this is a great goal in life, but noone owes you this, and the alternatives is a long way from slavery.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Depends on priorities. I'm fine with being a modern slave from 25-45 so I can live it the fuck up for the last forty or fifty years of my life. Plus, if you can't find a way to work 40 or 50 hours a week and still enjoy your life, ouch.

[–]2chazthundergut 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Most of "making you happy" is achieved by cutting out the things that make you unhappy. Toxic relationships/people, compulsive behaviors and addictions, unhealthy lifestyle habits, shitty patterns of thought, mindless automated living, and major chronic stressors.

Once you have excised the tumors that are making you unhappy, you can add in the things that actually do make you happy: freedom (includes independence and self-sufficiency), optimal physical fitness, self-improvement, mindful living, meaningful experiences, helping OTHERS, connections and friendships.

$$$ MONEY is cheat codes for LIFE, in that virtually every one of those things in the second category are WAY easier to access when you are wealthy.

HOWEVER, there are plenty of wealthy people who have not yet mastered the first (and more important) part of being happy: they are overburdened by all those shitty parts of their lives that are dragging them down.

If you are not rich, you should definitely make that your number 1 priority. You have no idea what kind of amazing life you are missing out on. And it really isn't all that difficult; have discipline, use critical thinking, and build up a little momentum. If you keep a solid mindset, money will make your life sweet in ways you can barely imagine.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes! Part of what led to me to write this post was my 5 year journey from debt to abundance. One day I woke up and said fuck this. I'm done drinking 4 times a week. I'm done eating out because I'm lazy. I'm done buying a new winter coat every winter. I want to peace of mind more than I want all of these things. And that was the first thing I turned out to be 100% right about in a long time.

[–]blacwidonsfw points points [recovered]

Got my first real real job lately and just got my bonus and extra stock grants. Woke up 50k richer.

It's really nice not having to worry about money at all and frees up 80% of your mindspace when you don't have to worry about a stupid bill or debt. I remember how much it weighed on my psyche when I was struggling in school and working full time for 10 bucks an hour.

Also never have to worry about getting the 25 dollar steak versus the 18 dollar pasta which doesn't seem like a big deal but that is real freedom right there.

You don't need money to be happy but you need freedom. Freedom isn't cheap

[–]yomo86 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kudos man. I sure will be paranoid like Ozzy when in a couple of years the cheques roll in, I never could bear the thought of losing it or to be taken advantage of. Women - no humans in generals - took advantages of my workforce back in college now they could screw up your life.

[–]xXSoroxXx 4 points5 points  (2 children)

"Money can't buy happiness" is now a superficial cliche phrase. People think it means just material things but it's goes much deeper. My brain has a negative baseline for thoughts and i get really anxious, depressed, etc if I each shitty processed food. If I buy from the local farmers around me and stick to pasture raised and grass fed whole foods I feel better physically and mentally. The only downside is it's ALOT more expensive. That is one facet of money DOES buy you happiness.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

It's the gateway to ALL self-betterment. Better health, nutrition, exposure, charity, and so on.

[–]analyticaltoafault 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. All the claims of being able to be subjectively happy and poor and such forget that that is the exception. It certainly makes it easier to take time off and focus on mental/social well being when you have the money to affors that time off without a second thought.

Being poor and being able to focus on the here and now is a good coping mechanism, but once you're out of that hole, many discover they still have many demons to face that they've simply successfully ignored for an extended period of time.

[–]TheSlicemanCometh 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Money is the freedom and, for me, freedom is happiness.

For me money is the freedom to do what I want to do. Its having options. Having choices in life.

I want to drive a BMW and to dress nice with leather shoes, tailored suits, designer underwear and a Rolex. Go out to five star diners and eat and drink whatever you choose without thinking twice about the price.

There is science behind how these things make your T go up and high T is feeling good and sustained good feelings is happiness.

I want these things. Western men should not settle for less.

[–]Wadsworth21 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Something that I heard from a mentor of mine who is extremely wealthy but doesn't flaunt it was that it's not about how much money you can make but how much money you can keep. I had never thought about building wealth that way. Saving is key

[–]butter_coffee 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I remember Seneca encouraging us to take cold showers and wear cheap clothes to get ready in case we lose it all. I tried it out to see how spartan I could make my life. It's more fun to see how frugal you can be, knowing it's a choice, than when a friend I know had no choice BUT to live that way because of bad spending habits. Lack of money is a lack of self discipline (forcing yourself to work, plan ahead, budget appropriately)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Part of what led to me to write this post was my 5 year journey from debt to abundance. One day I woke up and said fuck this. I'm done drinking 4 times a week. I'm done eating out because I'm lazy. I'm done buying a new winter coat every winter. I want to peace of mind more than I want all of these things.

Being frugal is way more fun once you accept that it's OK. It is more than worth it. It's necessary.

[–]Andrew54321 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You know what's more comforting to know?

That you're all that you'll ever need.

[–]champagne_papdi points points [recovered]

I own 2 successful businesses (Restaurant/Banquet) on top of having respectable 9-5 Engineering job. My financial situation allows me the ability to treat girls I date extremely well as in- upscale restaurants, top shelf drinks, good seats at basketball/football games, hotels/travel for weekend getaways. Even the little things like bringing starcucks coffee/hot chocolate on a cold day or calling an uber black instead of an uberX etc.

At the end of the day every girl just goes "Oh wow I love the way you treat me! You're not like any other guy I've dated". Gee wonder why

[–]postreformedpua 10 points11 points  (23 children)

I'd love to be financially independent. Having to work a 9-7 job to pay for the CEOs and board members yachts is soul crushing. If anyone has any ideas where to start I'm all ears.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

If you work a job that's soul crushing maybe it's time to look into changing careers.

[–]dopest_dope 8 points9 points  (3 children)

its not the job its the working for CEOs and making them rich. Short of starting your own business you cannot really get away from that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Are you a victim? That's the attitude your getting upvoted for. Your pay as an employee is directly related to your value you bring to the company. Having a job is a huge opportunity. If you want better pay get a better job you're qualified for or more training. If you're upset you don't get 100% of your value start your own business and find out how much fun living on a variable income is. Oh by the way you have to pay an additional self employment tax along with paying for all your other benefits you enjoy out of your own pocket. You won't get anywhere blaming others for your position in life.

[–]TheSlicemanCometh 1 point2 points  (17 children)

Live literally as frugal as you can while getting a second job. Work 7 days a week. Two fulltime jobs. Save at least 50% of your income. Keep doing this.

Your life will suck, but if you stick with it, 5 to 7 years later, you will have 100K in savings.

Buy an apartment complex. Retire.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (9 children)

Buy an apartment complex for $100k? What? Where?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

?! Retire young with 100k in savings? What?

[–]TheSlicemanCometh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Read again, then do the math again. Your math is wrong.

Also I personally wouldn't ever retire young, just giving a way to become FI fast as he expressed interest.

[–]Subtletorious points points [recovered]

Where are you finding these two full-time jobs? Not only that, but two jobs that are time compatible?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Serve or bartend after you 9-5...how crazy is that?

I know some people that do m-f 9-5 and m-thurs at a bar. Or some do the m-f thing and f-sunday at a bar.

It is very doable.

[–]Banincoming 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Enough money is freedom from many worries.

[–]BuzzedNig 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I just need an idea for a business. I have 50k sitting in my bank accout, I can afford to invest in a business. I just don't know what to do. My trade requires millions to start a business so I can't just do what I'm doing on my own

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why do you need to invest in a business? You have 50k in what type of account?

[–]BinaryResult 0 points1 point  (0 children)

About to invest my second $50k into a business. The first business hasn't gone anywhere unfortunately but this one seems more promising if less exciting.

[–]grachuss 3 points4 points  (4 children)

This is so true. Once I started buying apartment buildings last year I added another $30k a year to my income, and that was after all deductions. Because of this my job's hold over my life disappeared. I only needed to work 8 hours per day, and I was still saving more money than the $25k minus taxes I making in OT.

It's a funny feeling to suddenly have the pendulum swing in your favor. When I told my boss I switched to no OT he looked shocked. I now get all the easy assignments to make sure I'm out in under 8 hours. I also became a union rep since I no longer have to worry about reprisals from management.

[–]usernamegoeshere111 points points [recovered]

How did you start buying apartment buildings? Where did you get the knowledge for that? Is there a book that you read that I could check out? I'm highly interested in this.

[–]grachuss 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Got a job with the Border Patrol. Started saving, since you get a pretty decent salary after the first year. Somehow ended up at biggerpockets.com and started reading. There are really no books. I just read the forum areas that interested me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice! Who's Gonna Pay For The Wall?!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ironically when you do buy something with the money, you now have less. And thus money actually buys anti-happiness (obviously except when youre meeting legit needs).

Save/invest your money. Only trade as little of your time as you need/can for as much money as you can. Be happy with your life/mission, not some advertisements guilt tripping definition of "the good life"

[–]use4356n 17 points18 points  (16 children)

The pursuit of money places yuo on the hedonic treadmill, the bible calls it "chasing after the wind" men with money never have enough money, meaning that it cannot and will never buy happiness. People who pursue it for happiness sake are soon consumed by it.

Money is a distraction that prevents men from asking the deeper questions of life.

Money can buy you comfort, but many a good men have destroyed by too much comfort. Trials and discomfort are good opportunities to build character -- there is no virtue without temptation -- and virtue is something that money cannot buy.

Like lifting, you cannot get anywhere without experiencing some discomfort and pain.

Money, and comfort are nice, but do NOT place it at the center of your life, money gets in the way of the deeper questions, and the deeper questions ultimately seek to find happiness, wherever it may be hiding.

[–]rockinhard130 13 points14 points  (15 children)

Oh no! Bible thumping!

Seriously, money isn't everything, but it can buy pretty much everything. Cars, lifestyle, pussy. I'd rather have an existential crisis where I can afford to fly to Tibet and spend months with a guru to work through my issues, then stop in Thailand to party.

[–]FuckyouAvast 7 points8 points  (14 children)

Warren Buffet lives in the same house he bought in 1958 for $31,500. He drives an Oldsmobile. His net worth is $65 billion. The linesman for the Baltimore Ravens, John Urschel, makes millions but lives off $25,000 per year. Kawhi Leonard of the San Antonio Spurs has a contract for $94 million but still drives a 1997 Chevy Tahoe he's has since he was a teenager.

It's not that these men are cheap, it's that the things they value in life are cheap. I may be wrong, but your comments give me the impression that you've recently acquired new wealth and are excited by it, and are telling TRP about the happiness it has brought you. Money is not happiness anymore than novelty is.

[–]The_Best_01 6 points7 points  (10 children)

And why are those people happy despite still living frugally? Because they have financial freedom. They have financial security no matter what happens. It's not the things you own, but the knowledge that they can do whatever the fuck they want with $billions is why they're happy. Money indeed buys happiness.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ahh, someone's keeping up with their Daily Stoic!

[–]LongEZE 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I think people confuse money with making money.

Money given won't make you happy, but earning lots of money will prove your worth in addition to being able to buy things. If you don't work, you won't be happy.

[–]Hirudin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The only time I ever experience true happiness is when I can do something today that I couldn't do yesterday. Money is both the cause of, and the result of this happening.

[–]gecko408 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sell out. Make as much money as you can. Don't chase women, chase money

[–]1SeemedGood 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Money is security. Money is comfort.

...and those things are both associated with happiness for women (or lead to it at any rate). Men are different.

Security and comfort do not make us happy, on the contrary, they tend to make us weak and that leads to unhappiness. Challenge, conflict, discomfort, and the thrill of overcoming them are more likely to make us happy. Those things improve us and make us stronger, which makes us happy.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of money (or rather the excess productivity that it stores), and in my lifetime I have had none of it at times and large amounts of it at times (including the Mercedes and Porsche when I could afford a Bentley and Ferrari). It has been my experience that my happiness is almost completely uncorrelated with the amount of money that I have at any given time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Fair enough. Maybe I haven't lived long enough. I just came into net-positive worth not too long ago and I can tell you it's made all the difference in the world to me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it is about level - after certain income you can have nice car good dinners dressing better.. then you need a challenge not more money for money itself

[–]1SeemedGood 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It does make a difference, but I think that maybe you haven't recognized exactly what that difference is yet.

For me it was the knowledge that I can earn large sums that made me happy. I had set a goal of reaching a certain figure annual income by 35. And when I reached it, the achievement was really the reward as opposed to the actual income. In other words, it was satisfaction in accomplishment that brought the happiness rather than the stock of the accomplishment itself.

The money can be lost. The realization that you can create significant wealth and the achievement of having done so are with you forever.

[–]Andrew54321 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yea and no. You're mistaking cause and effect. The attitude of experiencing ultimate freedom is what brings the necessary wealth to experience it.

Ever wonder why billionaires aren't busting a nut 24/7 from the extreme number of options and freedom they have? Would you? They do not because they had that attitude before the billions.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Red pill is starting to sound like some hip hop albums I used to listen to.

[–]TheStumblingWolf 2 points3 points  (1 child)

When I got my education psychology was a part of it. Money was the topic one day. We were taught that money can either make you miserable or content but not happy. True, money can remove worries from your life and a lot of it can make you able to do whatever the fuck you want but I personally find that without anyone to share the experiences you can buy with it it's useless. I love not having to worry about money, but the only thing that makes me truly happy are my friends and knowing I can rely on them.

[–]VTMSCHVSVCTRY points points [recovered]

"Money Is The Life of The Mind" was my post. This was a great post.

A Mercedes in your driveway will only bring you happiness if you could've afforded the Ferrari.

Had me rolling

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your post was probably my favorite I've read on here. Had me rolling for weeks. Get it.

[–]grngr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Money equates, essentially, to having things done for you. Freedom.

[–]andhakanoon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is so true. I have been a long time lurker here, and really wanted to implement a lot of what I read here in my life, but every time it just boiled down to "who's gonna pay for it?" Luckily, I've found a new job, and can soon start working on improving myself both physically and mentally.

[–]SouloftheVoid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hate the saying "Money can't buy happiness" because it's just a meaningless platitude meant to keep people without money content. Money buys everything. Hungry? Money buys food. Cold? Money buys shelter. Bored? Money buys entertainment. Lonely? There are plenty of women in and outside the US who will be your wife if you have the funds, just look at the president.

[–]Sethori points points [recovered]

Nah. Money can buy pleasure but pleasure isn't happiness. Happiness comes from within and is rooted in mature masculinity.

[–]TorboLeto 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Happiness is to be free; to do what you want, when you want. Money can buy more than pleasure. It buys you time, which is the single most important thing yoy could have. What do you have without it?

With time you can focus on anything you want. Even if you have mental issues, like anxiety and not being able to talk to people. It not only buys you the time and reaources to work on anything you please, therea a chance it would also boost your confidence. And confidence definitely increases happiness.

Money definitely buys more than pleasure. It buys you time which will lead to happiness if that's what you're after.

[–]TimeIsEverything points points [recovered]

Money can buy peace of mind, from which you can seek to better yourself and reach your goals.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yep, but not can... does

[–]TruthInArt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Granted there are no other external factors that money can't buy peace of mind from (crazy mom who wants you to pay your siblings' way).

[–]putsomecolourson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Everybody needs money...That's why they call it money

[–]Expectations1 1 point2 points  (2 children)

But lifting and being healthy cannot be bought.

Being healthy makes you happier.

Being fit and able to use the freedom that money buys is also big, and that takes hard work.

It is why fitness is so highly regarded these days, it cannot be bought, it is through sheer will and determination that a fit and ripped body is created.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can pay for a trainer at least.

[–]deeman010 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can understand how that is and I do mostly agree but we must also remember that money is just a form of power. This is relevant in countries like mine that have cities that emulate the 1st world but still contain "wilder" elements in the rural sections of the country.

Warlords operating their own private armies are still fairly common here (gov't supported in the past) and they tend to dictate the financial growth of a (rural) area. Money also, naturally, gravitates towards them. I just felt like expounding for some reason.

[–]RedShock1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Money can't buy everything, but everything needs money.

[–]PissedPajamas 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Money ain't happiness but it pays you out of unhappiness

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

And that, my friend, is why it is happiness. 1+1=2. Details do not matter. Save money. Every day.

[–]PissedPajamas 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Money keeps you from being unhappy, but "not being unhappy" doesn't mean you're happy, you're just stable. Happiness is hard to define because it's not palpable. I consider it a sense of self-fulfillment felt through your surroundings and experiences

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Happiness comes much more easily when money is not an issue. It's really that simple. People hate on money accumulation because of blue-pill propaganda. Because it "doesn't buy love", blah blah blah. And because crab mentality is strong these days. They're jealous. And they're misguided. They can't differentiate between longing for money and longing for the crap money can buy. Buying shit you don't need and can't afford is beta. Sitting on a bank is alpha.

[–]PissedPajamas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

money is money. It helps a lot but it won't change your mentality. Having a purpose gives you a reason and fulfillment gives you satisfaction. Rich or poor your outlook on life is what matters, we all end up in the same coffin at the end.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're doing a good job explaining your points throughout this thread, some people just refuse to see and understand what you're saying.

[–]BlackVale 2 points3 points  (21 children)

Thanks. Any advice on investing early on besides just saving?

[–]SpeakerToRedditors points points [recovered]

Have 1.5 years of expenses in liquid funds 80% invents in low risk long term DRIP stocks 20% invest in high risk short term investments.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children)

What's you situation? Age, job status, income, expenses?

[–]BlackVale 0 points1 point  (10 children)

23, I get 10.50/hr but I have a cs degree and having employment trouble, I pay about $100/ month for student loans and $600 in bills and car notes since I live with my parents and have to pay a few to stay there.

[–]TheSlicemanCometh 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Get another job. You will never have more energy in your life than you do at 23.

Work 7 days a week for the next several years and dont spend what you earn.

Do that and you will be thanking me in a few years looking back.

[–]LosingMoneyAllDay 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Get rid of the car note. Buy a cheap clunker for 2-3k. Save so much money over time. Find better employment, obviously.

[–]BlackVale 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Its for 2k and I can't find another job. I've put out over 100 applications so far and haven't got anything.

[–]LosingMoneyAllDay 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Than your resume is poor. Fix it. Go to networking conferences, talk to your friends. Don't just sit behind a computer screen because HR departments are the single biggest decider of future employment. Take them out of the equation if possible.

[–]BlackVale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you fix your resume? Whenever I show it to someone they say its good. Can I pm it to you? What networking conferences? Can you expound on that more? The people I graduated with are in the same spot and I come from a blue collar background, so everyone i know works somewhere like WalMart. I'm the only one who even went to college. You have anymore ways to bypass them? I've been getting contacts and sending resumes to hiring managers directly and nothings happened.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

So you're 23, college graduate with a Computer Science degree? Why are you making $10.50/hour?

[–]BlackVale 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I've been looking for a job in my field but I haven't had any luck so far. Aside from that I don't have any experience. I had the same problem when in was trying to get an internship.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Dice.com? Get something in the Financial Industry in Operations/Support making 40 grand/year. You'll move up.

[–]BlackVale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've tried them once before but not in finance. Anything for someone with.little experience or any tips?

[–]tempjewman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always thought that having lots of money was so important to happiness in life. It gives you freedom in your life to do the things you really want to do.

There's some statistic out there saying 60-70k is the ideal income for happiness before diminishing returns. I always felt like its a trap to ensure people don't get too ambitious.

For me, if I have a business I want it to grow. Meaning profit goes up in a somewhat linear trend over the year. The more profit I see, the more motivated I am to continue the trend. It becomes a conscious habit, much like going to the gym is. You get positive reinforcement from seeing yourself in the mirror after weeks of lifting, or watching the plate count go up, etc.

I can see the argument from the opposite side that basically says you're not free, but a slave to money. You can't stop working because you can't fathom the idea of not making money. I would MUCH rather have this problem than the inverse.

[–]1StoicCrane 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Lies, the pursuit of money is like a knife that stabs one with many pains in exchange for chump change. Money is a tool for promoting certain aspects of life. A lover of money will never be satisfied with money.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Nah, not lies. Of course you should not let the pursuit of money consume you... take away from other pleasures in life related to friendships, relationships, or other forms of self-betterment. But again, without financial security, there is nothing. The sun does not shine as brightly and the tits do not taste as good. It is the gateway to peace of mind. The things that do bring happiness cannot fall into place without financial security.

[–]1StoicCrane 5 points6 points  (4 children)

It's a necessity but no underlying source of happiness. Money can't buy meaningful relationships, it can't buy peace of mind, it can't buy unity. The most valuable currency in life is time. Money is of men and passing. Whoever makes it out to be an object of worship with the fleshy pleasures that it begets will ultimately wind up destroying themselves in meaningless sensual pursuits. It is indeed a lie.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

You're misunderstanding me.

it can't buy peace of mind

I didn't say it could. I said it is peace of mind. A Porsche in and of itself will not bring you happiness - at least after the honeymoon phase. Money will. Having money is having peace of mind. Period.

with the fleshy pleasures that it begets

What fleshy pleasures? Knowing that if you get in a massive car wreck you won't be strapped for cash, knowing you can give to others whenever you want to, knowing you can take a vacation with friends anytime you'd like and create wonderful memories? Those fleshy pleasures?

[–]1StoicCrane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Believe what you will. One who makes money their rock is building a shaky foundation.

What fleshy pleasures? Knowing that if you get in a massive car wreck you won't be strapped for cash, knowing you can give to others whenever you want to, knowing you can take a vacation with friends anytime you'd like and create wonderful memories? Those fleshy pleasures?

More often then not men become corrupted in the pursuit and use money to bring about twisted personal fantasies in some form or another. Money is merely a tool. Ascribe anymore value to it beyond that and you're looking for a world of hurt.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

A flip side exists...

I work in tech. I make 200k, 30 years old. I have no consumer debt, just a mortgage on a 900k house (that's cheap in my area).

I work a lot. A. Lot. Some weeks are 40, and some weeks are 80+. I also travel internationally for about two weeks every two months. There is no structure in my company, just chaos and firefighting, so I am always working on not being too stressed. Sometimes it is exciting and dynamic, sometimes I hate it with all my soul.

I lift at 5AM, listen to audiobooks during my commute, work all day, get home barely in time to see my son before he goes to bed, and then shove food down my throat, sleep, repeat. Weekends consist of childcare, chores, and house repair. It's work all weekend in that sense too.

Money is nice but I don't even have time to spend it.

[–]KINGahRoo 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Son and basically million-dollar mortgage will do that to ya. Imagine the possibilities that coulda been without the anchors :o

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I love both anchors, fortunately and chose both with my eyes wide open.

[–]KINGahRoo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What's the status with your other half?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thankfully she is a stay at home mom, so our son gets great childcare.

[–]KINGahRoo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LIVIN' the dream! Good man.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Do you have an option to cut out those 80-hour weeks? Why can't you find a job in IT that's 40 hours every week? They're everywhere. If you're making 200k you're obviously valuable.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not IT, I am a hardware engineer in consumer electronics.

[–]Snowiceolated points points [recovered]

Disagreed. While going from homeless and starving to middle class will certainly make anyone immensely happy, there's diminishing returns. It's a logarithmic growth. At a certain point, getting more money just doesn't make you happier anymore.

[–]juliusstreicher 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's because its already bought you enough happiness.

[–]blackedoutfast 2 points3 points  (4 children)

disagree completely. i know people who have more money than everyone reading this combined and they're just as depressed and unfulfilled and unhappy as anyone else.

[–]TheSlicemanCometh 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Probably because they didnt really earn it.

Ive yet to see a blood n sweat rags to riches story where the guy was still unhappy.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 1 point2 points  (1 child)

OP is taking for granted his social skills and life experience. My bro has money and has been miserable his whole life.

[–]analyticaltoafault 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok maybe the point of all this is that money is often banished to the backburner of shame in many peoples' minds, and that no one thing alone mentioned here is forever fulfilling, but that each have their place in achieving self actualization good health, both physically and mentally.

[–]LifeSupport2017 points points [recovered]

We live in the 21st Century. You can be broke poor and still live like a King.

In today's world, money does not buy comfort, it buys luxury.

And money is not happiness. Happiness is gained through positive life experiences, none of which require much to begin with.

[–]bloodypill 3 points4 points  (1 child)

We live in the 21st Century. You can be broke poor and still live like a King.

I don't know what country you live in, but this is certainly not the case where I live (US).

[–]CyberninjaZen 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Money can make you happy but there's no guarantee. There zre lots of depressed celebs that kill themselves.

[–]Dookiestain_LaFlair 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They should give me their money before they kill themselves.

[–]crash1082 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was depressed about a month ago and feeling lazy, and 2 months prior my salary went up 3x.

I'm not disagreeing with your statement...just saying that even though I'm very financially stable, it's not everything.

[–]CptDefB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the movie it was energy. In real life it's money.

[–]PlusGoody 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll say one under-appreciated thing about being quietly rich (or visibly on your way to quiet wealth). It attracts the BEST kind of women. Gold-diggers are diverted to the flashy d-bags. But smart, sane, future-oriented good-looking women who want to have the option to be stay-at-home moms in the magic circle suburbs, vacation first class and five star, and retire in comfort in Florida? Boy does that work.

[–]Katavasis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Money means different things for different people.

But if you have none,you care,if you have a lot you don't.It can mean the whole world when you don’t have it and nothing when you have a lot.

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