Red Pill ExampleMillennials are 48% more likely to have sex before a first date (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by Lsegundo


One of my favorite things about TRP is you will see the world differently afterwards. This is from a match.com survey as reported in USA Today.

34% of singles have had sex before a first date, and Millennials are 48% more likely to have sex before a first date than all other generations of singles

Are you still wasting money on dates? LOL. This doesn't say if it's an equal number of males/females or if Chad gets the pussy without wasting his money. Since you're at TRP you probably know the answer. You can fuck women without even bothering with the date, or an hour into the first date, when your SMV is high enough. I have experienced this repeatedly since going red.

We used to think of sex as you crossed the line now you are in an intimate zone, but now sex is almost a given and it’s not the intimate part...

sloots gonna sloot

Sixty-five percent of men reported that they thought a woman offered to split in order to be polite, while 78% of women surveyed said they offered to pay because they don’t want to feel obligated for anything

cafeteria feminism = strong, empowered, and still expects you to pay for shit... unless she never wants to see you again.

for those who believe men are the ones dragging their feet when it comes to relationships, that's not the case. The survey found that men are 43% more likely than women to believe that having sex helps to builds an emotional connection with a partner.

After spreading her legs for dozens of men the magic of pair bonding is gone for her. The next Chad is a right swipe and a 5 minute conversation away.

The majority of men believe that feminism has changed dating for the better, with only 35% saying that the rise of gender equality has made dating worse

Said another way the vast majority of men in the top 20% want a feminine woman instead of a shrieking combative harpy.

Men reported that they want women to take charge, with a little over 90% of men are in favor of a woman making the first move when it comes to kissing and sex... the message is lost in translation, with only 29% of women reporting that they would initiate a first kiss, and only 13% asking for a phone number.

Many men have been socially castrated. Women still want a man that takes the lead.

Three in four single men and 64% of single women reported that they want more adventure in the bedroom.

Go for the blowjob in her car lot 50' from the restaurant door, instruct her not to wear panties when you are hanging out, sneak off the hiking trail and bend her over. Give her stories to tell on sloots night out and she will keep coming back for more.

Most of all arm yourself with knowledge and enjoy the decline.

[–]Casanova-Quinn 265 points266 points  (103 children)

a little over 90% of men are in favor of a woman making the first move

I'd say there are 2 big reasons for this.

  1. The laws. The system has turned into "guilty until proven innocent" when a male allegedly commits a crime against a female. The whole "consent culture" has made men overly cautious.

  2. Social programing. The beta/nice guys think that cold approaching a woman is creepy or too aggressive. They would rather live a sexless life than potentially be labeled a "creep" or "jerk". They'd prefer to "let it happen naturally", which is the feminine mentality they have adopted as a result of being raised in the current pro-feminine culture.

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

When I was in high school and early college I was HOPELESSLY fucking feminized and believed women when they complained about the "pushy, rude" guys that they kept fucking....

"Poor women, once they realize I'm such a sweet gentle man, they will certainly learn what good treatment looks like".

[–]Utterberetacht 159 points160 points  (18 children)

I cringe at the fact that I used to think this way.

[–]ServinBitterMedicine points points [recovered]

There's thousands of us bro, maybe millions

[–]354999556 points points [recovered]

Maybe? If there are only blue or red pillers, you have the answer in this sub only having 200K subs.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 37 points38 points  (11 children)

And most of these 200k actually thought like that.

[–]thebrandedman 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Hell, a good chunk are still trying to crawl out of the quicksand.

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (9 children)

Can confirm, you have a kernel of something deep down inside of you that knows it's wrong and that doing what society tells you is wrong.

You try and fill the hole in you life with other shit like consumerism or you strive for a form of manhood that girls want, I joined the military, some guys get a super good college degree, or become enterpuniers. Not all this is done for the end goal of getting pussy or finding a women to "love and marry" but there is part of you that is still thinking if I do this girls will come and like me for who I am.

But quite a few guys will sit in mom and dad's basement and jerk off until they are 30 waiting on a girl and for it to happen naturally

I've said before that alot of guys are on the red pill journey or finding a new path because some girl destroyed his illusion of reality....

Like me, home from the military with my bestest best Girlfriend ( that was supposedly gay but she flirted with me all the time and gave me attention which was enough to fuel my bataness into overdrive) while on boot leave i find out that she got drunk and had some older guy ( he was 24 her being 19 and a " virgin" ) fuck her while she was "drunk and high" and "couldn't remember what happend" and he took "advantage" of her. And * I believed her * at the beginning but the story didn't stack up and I did some digging over about three months just keeping my ears open and creeping on her face book and snapchat story( i know i know creepy and a loser and overly invested in a chick) and low and behold she was still fucking him, spending all her money on drugs and booze and asking me for help with her medical bills, and when I need a friend she was never there for me....

To all the guys out there that read this so like 6 of you

  1. Follow your gut if it says something is off it is.

  2. Become the best version of yourself for yourself. ( Lift, financial security, lift, martial arts , lift, find a passion, get healthy, lift)

  3. Never pay for a chicks anything (or anyone's for that matter) unless they are giving you something in return

  4. If you want love and respect get a dog

  5. You need to talk about your problems (Your dad, your close male friends or best case talk to your dog) it helps to say the words sometimes.

  6. Use the women for what they are good for fucking, if you desperately want to find "the one" good luck with that.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 20 points21 points  (3 children)

7 Stay the fuck away from anyone into hard drugs or heavy drinking

[–]throwaway_life12345 4 points5 points  (1 child)

This sounds reasonable, but could you explain specifically why one should avoid heavy drinkers, of the female variety or otherwise?

I only ask because I'm a Brit, and if you avoid heavy drinkers in this country you are going to find yourself very lonely.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

What is your definition of heavy drinkers?

I despise drama and BS. I have had an acquaintances who partied hard, but held down a good job and never lost themselves in it. Their other circle of friends was filled with fuck ups, burn outs, thieves, and the type of people who will drag your life into the shitter with theirs.

[–]askmrcia 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Love your comment and couldn't agree more. Also my closest male friends and older brother are the ones who saved me from suicide.

A guy's best male friends are who you should talk to about your problems. Never ever do it with a woman. It's sad that women think of you weak just because you have some issues, but a guy will actually understand.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My friends from the marines that are males we talk ever month or so.... friends for life

My female "friends" from the marines, the second I couldn't do shit for them any more thwey went radio silent, not surprised

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To be fair, some just wont subscribe but still read. Did thay for a while.

[–]nofapthrowaway134 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Me too. I'm grateful that during my college freshman year I was paired with some alpha dorm mates who knocked the beta nonsense out of my head. With their training I went on to my lose my virginity and get two more notches in my first semester. I'm not sure what I would have done without that positive exposure. It's as if men are born betas and it takes a strong alpha role model to mold them into an alpha, and if you don't have that, you're fucked to a life of betadom.

[–]Atticus_Crowley 29 points30 points  (5 children)

Yep. Same here. Though I partially blame my mother for this. Right when I was around that middle school age where I suddenly became very interested in my female classmates, my mom sat me down and told me to never touch them. In fact, wasn't allowed to ever have them in the house. Why? Because she said, these women will scream assault and rape, they will sue us, and then we'll lose our home and be homeless. Honest to god, that's what she told me. So I was TERRIFIED of ever making the first move, or being pushy, or anything of the sort. Wasn't until after high school (and the help of alcohol) was I able to move past this mental hurdle.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Well, at least she didn't say "don't touch women without their consent because women are wonderful, strong and independent and will be into you on their own without you having to prompt them".

[–]askmrcia 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Dude that same exact thing happened to me. Mom sat me down in middle school and told me that exact same thing.

Here's the worse part. By the time I got to high school all of a sudden her, my sister and other female family members started questioning if I was gay because I was not dating anyone in high school.

To this day at age 26 I hold that against my mother. Yup never have and never will get over that. Up until two years ago she questioned if I was going to get married, can't remember exactly what I told her, but I know she has never brought that up again and any family member that asked that while my mother was around she shoots them down and tell them not to ask me.

[–]AttackOnKvothe 16 points17 points  (0 children)

At least she told you the real truth.

She couldn't risk a girl dragging your whole family into shit. maybe she also saw you as the kind of guy who COULD potentially create that situation, so she had to make sure.

Move on, learn from the past and prepare for the future, make sure you are the best version of yourself.

[–]aanarchist 9 points10 points  (1 child)

a woman spots what she wants instantly, and guards it with her black heart until it is gone. if a woman wants you and what you offer, she'll jump through hoops to get you.

[–]cuntrolbot 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I would say this applies to women seeking BB as much as AF.

[–]JaracRassen77 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Same here. But that died after I started ingesting the red pill last year. The greatest lie ever told to men was the BP dream. I'm just focused on my hobbies, working out and building my career, right now. It's not worth the hassle.

[–]1StoicCrane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seems like the way to go for a while.

[–]Penguin327 26 points27 points  (9 children)

Not to mention the countless movies where a man hesitates to even kiss a woman as he drops her off at her door after a date. Rewind back a couple decades ago men in films were so much more assertive and alpha.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

After I decide I like a woman I go for the first kiss by the middle of the first date. It works out more often than not.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

And songs these days. Examples from just one current popular singer:

She got a bad reputation

She takes the long way home

And all of my friends seen her naked

Or so the story goes

Mistakes we all make them

But they won't let it go, no

She's got a bad reputation

But I know what they don't

And I don't care what they say about you baby

They don't know what you've been through

Trust me, I could be the one to treat you like a lady

Let me see what's underneath, all I need is you

I know I can treat you better than he can

And any girl like you deserves a gentleman

Tell me why are we wasting time

On all your wasted crying

When you should be with me instead

I know I can treat you better

Better than he can

I'll stop time for you

The second you say you'd like me to

I just wanna give you the loving that you're missing

Baby, just to wake up with you

Would be everything I need and this could be so different

Tell me what you want to do

You watch me bleed until I can't breathe

I'm shaking falling onto my knees

And now that I'm without your kisses

I'll be needing stitches

I'm tripping over myself

I'm aching begging you to come help

And now that I'm without your kisses

I'll be needing stitches

The level of blue pill in white male singers these days is insane. Meanwhile, women are singing about being irresponsible sluts and black guys rap about fucking them without attachment.

[–]improvising1 3 points4 points  (1 child)

This song makes me cringe so hard every time it comes on.

These high SMV singers are misleading for average guys - the singer can get away with singing these cringy lyrics and women will still fuck them because they're rich and famous. Bloopers see this and think "See? Some women are into respectful guys" not realising that if the singer expressed the same thing as an average guy he'd be out on his ass.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

True, but also keep in mind these singers don't actually write their songs by themselves. They're co-written (or entirely written) and produced by guys no one's ever heard of. The same few guys are writing all the hits you hear.

[–]CQC3 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The only reason that works nowadays in movies is because the romcoms (for women, not the ones secretly for men where the main character is a fucking nerd loser) involve a male love interest who is by all accounts typically successful and good looking, but becomes rather subservient or attentive to the womans interests by merit of her being "special" in some way (usually for no reason, because if there actually was a reason then you couldn't fantasize it was you...hence bland ass Kristin Stewart/Bella in Twilight).

The fantasy is always an alpha that is for some reason able to be controlled by a certain female by virtue of her specialnessnessness and he becomes more beta like around her which makes him seem like an attainable alpha that is able to be kept, but just barely. If a man is too high SMV and knows it, then the woman will be worn down eventually by the indirect dread game, if he is too easily able to be kept, then she will feel she can do better because of narcissism and entitlement.

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

[–]geo_gan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Amazing. That video was posted by a woman and her no. 1 scene is him attempting to rape the main actress.

Then read the comments from bluepill:

"I find it a little disturbing how the #1 scene of your "Top Ten Favorite Stanley Scenes" was him about to rape a helpess woman"

and then from woman:

"LOL, that's because most women would luv to be raped by a guy who looked like HIM! The epitome of male virility. And that sexy smile on his face too. What a dream."

[–]goldaxis 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I agree with the first point. We live in an age where it's j'acuse and your life is either changed forever or simply over. What girls in our generation are worth the risk? So guys just don't take that risk.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children)

I would be fucking stoked if Chicks made the first move as it would theoretically increase the rate, plus your still free to approach on your own, which will always be a better option.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Sometimes they do... have had girls approach me in bars (very rarely) and make the first moves on me (slightly less rarely).

It's cute because they're usually hilariously bad at it (because they're not doing "see if this works", they're doing oh-my-god-I-really-like-him-try-and-get-a-result"). I can see why girls flip straight into screening mode - there's no investment for me, no rejection possible (worst case: she tried and gave up and walked away) and it all becomes a fun game that you can't lose.


You'll always get hotter girls by doing the moves yourself.

[–]CQC3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I can see why girls flip straight into screening mode - there's no investment for me, no rejection possible (worst case: she tried and gave up and walked away) and it all becomes a fun game that you can't lose.

Absolutely true.

I remember I was once in a super market and some guy (couldn't tell if gay or was trying to lead me into some sort of pitch, usually one of those recruitment scams) cold approached me and started chatting me up, and I instantly went into screening mode, it was quite insightful to be honest.

Regardless of sexual interest, I got to see the flip side. From then on I understood that it is important to make your intent clear as fast as possible in most scenarios and that most people are ready to reject you to get out of the situation ASAP because they're nervous or uncomfortable.

In my case, I stone walled his ass because I'm not gay nor do I like getting pitched by those recruitment scams because it's happened so many times. I wasn't rude, but I curtly answered his questions and gave little expansion on my replies which forced him to cycle through his topics faster. I understood a bit more about approaching from that, I'm a good example of a tougher sell and I could see that if I was in his shoes I would have to somehow break through my heightened guard HOWEVER, all that is POINTLESS if my interest isn't even remotely piqued on the main intent.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Chicks always make the first move. You don't see it. They lift their tail in front of you and hope you select them. (Assuming you are attractive.) Often, that is quite literal. However, you have to be the first to initiate the next step in the mating process.

Now, in highly competitive environments where they are lots of available and eager females, they will outright initiate. It becomes their only competitive edge.

[–]aanarchist 9 points10 points  (0 children)

if she wants a man, she's gonna have to earn him more than ever now. i don't bother approaching or escalating her unless she's shown me what i've needed to see. i'm not 6'4 chad but am more than capable if the woman has the brain to see it. the man is the prize, and the woman has to earn it. most guys take that red pill and are stuck in blue pill pussy pandering mode where her validation is his life and death.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 18 points19 points  (25 children)

Bullshit. You make it sound like awesome guys who would otherwise be successful with girls are choosing not to try for fear of rape accusations or being labeled a non-feminist creep.

The men who aren't approaching girls are refraining from this because they suck ass and would fail anyway. They just use feminism and modern anti male culture is as an excuse for sucking.

"Oh yeah. I could totally score with lots of ladies. I just choose not to... You know... False rape accusations and stuff."

"Oh yeah. I can totally score with lots of women. But... I choose not to because... You know... I don't want my friends thinking I'm creepy for walking up and talking to girls. Yep that's it. Definitely no fear of rejection or sucking at life here."

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 26 points27 points  (8 children)

You make it sound like awesome guys who would otherwise be successful with girls are choosing not to try for fear of rape accusations or being labeled a non-feminist creep.

Actually I think this is a genuine fear that men have of even getting started with women, and when they do start causes them to be overly "considerate" of her feelings.

The first time I asked a girl out I told her it was ok for her to say no so that she wouldn't feel pressured.

In other words: society puts men hesitant and on the back foot before they even start, which means they never get the results and reference points needed to get good.

Not necessarily with fear of false rape convictions, but definitely with the societal power that women have. Men fear that she'll react badly and then he will both feel bad, and other men and women will react badly towards him.

Women don't help this by incessantly prizing in the form of a relentless criticism of men. Men literally cannot win and cannot escape criticism (which they hate) so they end up doing nothing because everything they do is going to get criticised by the most powerful social group: females.

Too pushy? Not pushy enough? Committed to her? Won't commit? Tried to have sex? Didn't try to have sex? All of it attracts constant female criticism. As soon as a man cares about a woman's opinion, he feels a fear of literally everything he might do. Or not do. Because he's heard before a woman complaining about exactly the thing he's planning. Or not planning.

The male solution to this is "take signals from her" or "let her lead" - hence avoiding criticism. (Hence 90% of men in the survey wanting women to lead more). This is of course submission and makes the problem worse.

What's missed is that women just relentlessly blameshift to avoid personal responsibility and criticise to deflect their own agency, that the criticisms are not valid and should just be ignored in favour of selfish male primacy. Not for female respect, although that's a happy byproduct.

[–]CQC3 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I agree with you here, the TLDR is that men have NO leeway in learning how to be men in regards to approaching women.

The cost of fucking up is too high and so men try to approach without approaching. Approaching without intent to escalate is why men have funded the PUA and self help industry, they treat women like Rubik's cubes because they think there is some trick, some INPUT and order, some combination to magically change reality--akin to entering the right password.

I don't believe they fear false rape convictions, but they fear being viewed as a creep or socially inept which will further make them unattractive in the eyes of women. The creep shaming is a function of hypergamy as men who try anyways will likely garner more interest as it is something of a dominant behavior to boldly resist convention.

So the guys never get more experience out of fear, and the guys who already were getting attention get compounded experience with little effort.

Go out and get it boys.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Wolves do not concern themselves with the opinions of sheep.

[–]CQC3 3 points4 points  (2 children)

And sometimes wolves are unaware that they're actually sheep. If the sheep are the ones who can put you in jail or severely set you back, then who is really the wolf?

Simple analogies don't cut it.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Too pushy? Not pushy enough? Committed to her? Won't commit? Tried to have sex? Didn't try to have sex? All of it attracts constant female criticism.

If everything brings criticism the only solution is DGAF. I thought the wolves/sheep analogy sums that up nicely. You can't prepare for every possible situation.

The false accusations TRP warns about are a very real, but unlikely threat if you conduct yourself properly. The vast majority of us will never face jail time because of a crazy, vindictive bitch.

I am not saying some guys here weren't completed blindsided, that they deserved it, or that it isn't a travesty of justice. I don't let it keep me awake at night or isolate myself from women because of it though.

Another thing the wolf/sheep thing alludes to is do not take advice from women on how to pick up women.

[–]blue_dover points points [recovered]

Is there no secret other than just going and approaching girls? Fail the first few hundred times and eventually it will get better?

[–]Lsegundo[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

You can probably learn some stuff from game.

[–]blue_dover points points [recovered]

Yeah - but that's the problem - Too much reading. Too much theory. Not enough action

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are right that action is the more important part. Read a little then practice. For me game was like a study guide to quickly review before the test.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (10 children)

If you fail 100 times in a row you have a problem. You either look like shit (clothes, ugly, unfit), are punching way out your league, or can't learn to talk to women

[–]blue_dover points points [recovered]

punching way out your league

Isn't that the whole point? I don't want the 6s

[–]Lsegundo[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

No. If you don't want the 6s you need to improve yourself until you can get women you are satisfied with. Make sure you are improving for yourself though. Women are a side effect.

[–]blue_dover points points [recovered]

Kind of but not really. My roommate is a 4 at best. Apart from being 6'2 he brings nothing to the table. He sits at home with no friends and codes all day. He doesn't have any hobbies or lifts. He is in his room right now with a stunner

[–]Lsegundo[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Are you 6'2"? Many woman find height an attractive quality. A very small % of the population is that tall. So he has that going for him.

and if your room mate slays why arent you asking him how?

[–]TWYW 1 point2 points  (2 children)

By the way is that height so uncommon in the US?

I'm in Europe and being 6' or over is given so much importance in TRP, while in real life is fucking nothing. I don't know the stats but by looking around me I'd say at least half of the young male population is over 6', so that adds literally nothing to your SMV. Sure, some girls may find it a necessary quality but no girl will ever think that "you have that going for you".

[–]vagbutters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The men who aren't approaching girls are refraining from this because they suck ass and would fail anyway.

It depends. No matter how much I want to get laid on a particular day, I have a rule that I won't approach a woman who is drunk or high. Forget the fact that she's more likely to be an STD infested whore. She can always cry rape, but if she's inebriated the chances of that happening shoot way up. Not worth it.

Now if you're trying to hamster away the lack of self confidence to just be social and cold approach women you want to sleep with, then yes, you suck ass and probably need to improve yourself.

[–]MadeSomewhereElse 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I honestly can't get past number 1. I have let my caution prevent me from getting laid many times. To me it's not worth the risk. I won't sleep with a woman who has any alcohol in her system.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

problem or abundance mentality? If that is how you feel tell women before you go out with them. "No drinking or I won't fuck you." When she orders a glass of water at the bar you know youre already on third base ;)

[–]MadeSomewhereElse 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's actually pretty slick. I'd give it a try. Might only work if there's a reason to be at a bar other than booze though.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think it's more of 2 than 1.

The whole sex offender paranoia isn't nearly as pronounced in Europe; but guys are still timid and too chicken to make a move - and the more feminist a country is, the worse that behavior becomes.

[–]gunner7517 2 points3 points  (0 children)

18 senior year of high school. The social programming is definitely what I would say is a major problem is for me. I'm still a blue pilled bitch.

[–]Buchloe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good guy at my work got fired for inviting a coworker girl to his pool party. All he said was yeah you should come, throw on a bikini and head over. She told HR without ever telling him it had made her uncomfortable. Then a week later was on the work message board pissed about people "going behind other people's backs instead of fist addressing them face to face of there's an issue". I avoid this woman if at all possible. She's technically a superior. The sad part is, she seems so down and un-self confident. 99% sure dad wasn't around but strong mom was, and she's miserable for it but totally deluded thinking feminism is her champion. Shame

[–]TheGatesOfValhalla 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While it definitely doesn't seem like a bad thing for a woman to approach you, would that then put you into her frame initially? At that point, you are starting down, so to speak. Now, I would have no problem reasserting my frame on the conversation. But wouldn't this basically turn the woman into the aggressor for most guys. Seems like it'd be a problem.

[–]bigman1090[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hahaha my past 26 years. Never made those moves, I mean how could I sleep at night after being labeled a desperate creep? Not anymore though. Swallowed the pill, went out and Got a bunch of dates lined up for the first time ever. Expecting lots of escalation! Heading over to thanktrp

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt 4 points5 points  (19 children)

I'd summarize it as "most guys are pussies now." Whether that's because they're scared of being hit with fake rape claims or otherwise socially castrated is debatable.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (17 children)

I'd take being called a pussy over fake rape charge anytime.

[–]AttackOnKvothe 8 points9 points  (0 children)

everyone would.

One affects you sligthly in your reputation, and you can retort.

The other ruins and nullifies your life.

[–]CollaterLDamage 2 points3 points  (8 children)

the issue is theyre too pussy to even start a conversation. youre not going to get a rape charge talking to a stranger

[–]1StoicCrane 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Dude. If I have no interest sticking it in a boring, predictable HB5 why bother opening my mouth? The real issue is that the quality of average women in the SMV pool is so subpar there's no incentive to have conversations in the first place.

[–]CollaterLDamage 2 points3 points  (5 children)

this is a very common bullshit excuse. if your gay or dont have any sexual interest, thats fine, but this excuse 90% of the time is just someone logicalizing being a pussy.They'll say anything to themselves to avoid talking to a women.They'll look like a fat ass neckbeard, dress like shit, have no friends and then call anything below an 8 ugly.when they do see the 8's and 9's they logicalize there bullshit with "shes probably a slut,bitch,whore" "shes not my type"

i'll be honest, when my anxiety was deepseeded, i used to do this.I was making bullshit assumptions with no proof. Then for the fuck of it, i went for an approach and thats when i felt the anxiety.After that i had to except that all that time, i was just being a pussy. i had no practice and left myself socially retarded.

those HB5's are practice in a limited market.your skills will rust and texting doesnt translate over to real life.If you are not going to make the effort to hunt for HB 8-9's and wont practice with 5's, then just call it what it is. your being an incel pussy. worse so, it give off the impression your looking for "the one".

[–]1StoicCrane 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Funny because this is coming from someone who's the precise opposite of a Fat Neckbeard. You see, after a certain point of working on SMV by means of lifting, fashion, learning and applying game, etc the market of women available seem that much less appealing. Why should someone who busts their ass to raise their SMV to the max waste time with chicks who feel entitled to the best while putting in next to no work into themselves?

[–]CollaterLDamage 1 point2 points  (3 children)

In that case, I agree with you. Nonetheless, you will need practice for the good one. Don't neglect your social muscles.

[–]goldaxis 64 points65 points  (33 children)

I've always been one of those guys who only rarely went on dates. Had lots of financial problems and had to keep moving with work for a lot of years. I'd think that even though I wanted real companionship, seriously dating a woman would probably make things even worse.

Fast forward a decade, and I've raised myself up considerably. Very high salary earner, been bodybuilding for two years and finally looking the part, still pretty young at 31. I'm as kind and considerate as a man can be, but I also know how to be tough. I've got a lot going for me.

But I still don't date. And by "don't date" I don't mean "I just fuck girls and skip the dating process". I mean that I don't engage in sex.

I just can't get over my disappointment in women. I've worked so hard and struggled so much to become, at least in my opinion, an exceptional man, that I have absolutely zero interest in an easy fuck with some "average" (read: 20lbs overweight) bitch with barely half a brain in her body. The pettiness, the childlike lack of discipline, the outright stupidity and selfishness. It's so fucking revolting. I want to make a full topic about this one day, but for now I'll just say that I've always held out hope for my unicorn. That somewhere out there, there is a real woman, with the right kind of strength and wisdom that a real man craves. And I have still never met one, much less dated one. I couldn't understand why for the longest time. How could the seeming entirety of women be so mediocre? How could they always be so shallow and vapid? I knew our rotting culture played a role, but it wasn't until I found TRP that I started connecting the dots about their psychology and how all this shit about hyper sexuality ties together.

When I saw this article on Drudge today, the first thing I thought of was TRP, because every one of those statistics supports the ideas I've been reading here. Everything about men being legally beaten into submission (90% want women to make the first move) to women being sluts that treat sex as an on-demand service via the internet (men are 43% more likely to think sex helps build a connection).

My question is: what do you do when you refuse to play along with this degenerative bullshit? How do you beat the odds and form a relationship worth having?

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

Was there a time where you did date and you just kept not being satisfied with what you found?

Personally, I had an LTR that went on for a long time. I started figuring out game during the decline of that relationship and when it really ended, met a lot of different women but was never satisfied. Many of them saw my value and wanted more from me and that's when I'd cut them out. It felt bad to my inner "nice guy" but I couldn't be bothered, they wanted more than I wanted to give. Last year was the busiest I've ever been and was one of the biggest years for me in terms of financial growth but I actually cut women out all together since last summer and only recently put myself out there again last month:

Had the same disgust you have with what I found with online dating and IRL (vain, childish, temperamental low quality women) but still got some hookups (I also am not very satisfied with that kind of purely physical encounter, I like being around healthy feminine energy and secretly harbor hopes for those unicorns to appear). Last week had an encounter with a psychopath and made a post about it on here. Decided I needed to participate in the TRP community more to keep my mindset sharp and give back to those who haven't come as far yet and help ease the bitterness that comes with such awareness of the profound bullshit that is woven into our culture.

I haven't answered your question for myself but my hunch (and what I'm trying to go forward with), is based on what Rollo Tomassi says (therationalmale.com), him being married for a couple decades now, that he never gets comfortable with the idea that she might not just up and leave him for no reason and that he never can back pedal on his awareness. It makes me think of corollaries in the world of business and self-defense: You really can never not be vigilant. My brother was talking to me about this last night -- the girl he is seeing is totally into him but he feels sad that "he can't ever really have her"...he knows he can't just rest and she will be his forever. Rollo would also say that "men are the romantic sex". https://therationalmale.com/2012/09/10/men-in-love/ I think you just have to accept an abundance mentality (you're obviously doing great by any objective external measure) and apply that to women... You WILL find some great women, you will just have to be willing to enjoy them for what they are...sort of like seasons...they have to pass but others will come. https://therationalmale.com/2011/12/27/women-in-love/

If you haven't perused his stuff, I recommend starting with the "YEAR ONE" anthology (https://therationalmale.com/the-best-of-rational-male-year-one/)

I'm not trying to be the higher man than you here (we're having a little sub thread flame war bs going on above). We're on the same team.

[–]The_M0rning_Star 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Well, but that fear is the trade off. That kind of emotional exchange doesn't just come along for free; you don't get to just have it. Remember, physics applies to everything, conservation of energy and all that. You have to become to a degree vulnerable to make a connection like that. That means that yes, they can hurt you now. Yea, she can leave at any moment and break that dude's heart. That fear is worth being able to come home from a shit day, and she's on the couch wearin' no pants and you can bury your face in her boobs until you forget there's a world outside that room. It's...totally worth it. Being scared of losing that sucks, yea. But it also is the very thing that makes you strive to be better so you can keep it. Trade off. We don't create energy, just move it around a bit sometimes.

[–]goldaxis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't notice that you're the same guy, but it doesn't matter. I can see your sincerity. I'll give those a read.

[–]The_M0rning_Star 18 points19 points  (3 children)

You've got high standards and refuse to compromise them. If more men did that, the pool of good women to choose from would vastly increase because they would have to become better or they wouldn't get laid. That's why the world is filled with vapid hoes...when men will fuck anything, being a vapid hoe works. Why try and be educated, poised, or have a good career?

That being said, you have to be careful that those standards don't get in your way. There's one woman out there that has those exact stats, sure. There's dozens, though, that have similar stats. Say you meet the perfect girl, but turn her away because she's 20lbs overweight. No, no. Inefficient. You're already not dating, just take her to the gym with you and see if she's willing to lose that 20lbs.* No, don't do a whole bunch of extra stuff to get her to do it- she has to do it all on her own. But don't dismiss someone out of hand because they aren't perfect for you yet. Relax, then go explore, and encourage what you find to be better. See who responds. But seriously, relax, you're doing it. Nothing says alpha like calm and relaxed. Because only something very sure of its ability to dominate doesn't need to be scary.

Girl: Gym?! Are you calling me fat?? Boy: I'm calling you fun to be around *suggestive smile

^ that is how you avoid that argument

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The point is men want to fuck. I don't have to have a bodybuilders bod to fuck. If you want an emotional connection, get a dog.

[–]goldaxis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well said. I agree that it's much easier to find someone who is willing to build herself up with you. I've met some girls who talk the talk about self-improvement and ambition, but haven't found any with the discipline to actually follow through yet. Like you said, it's just a matter of staying cool and patient. Thanks for your input.

[–]TheReformist94 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Spot on man.what this sub is slowly coming to terms with is that women don't want commitment,are very cut out of casual sex,don't want to pair bond. Its men who want that special deep connection. Every time I've fucked a girl its been within a matter of hours there's no lmr,the pants come off.this idea that women get clingy is all bullshit.its men getting cheated on who get wrecked,not women.

[–]goldaxis 0 points1 point  (4 children)

The question in my mind is: if women can't provide the connection that men desire, why do we have that desire in the first place? Was there a time when they did provide that connection, or is it that platonic bonds between males once had that kind of connection, and we are projecting that expectation onto women? Respect, inspiration, support. Where did men find it in the past?

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

From being interested in primate behavior you notice a spectrum of male sexual strategy from "Alpha" to "Beta". In chimps, females use promiscuity to confuse paternality and avoid infanticide (what happens in many species when an outsider male comes in and finds offspring? He kills them). Some male primates will use gift-giving, grooming behavior and kindness towards offspring to get sex (its beneficial to the female too). But not every male has this strategy and it varies widely between species (Baboons/Geladas species are often the most hardcore patriarchal; aggressively defending harems of females from the violent onslaught of competitor males...its a stressful life and does not ensure genetic survival). Baboons are more "Alpha". They also live shorter lives and are in constant violence. Chimps and our more closely related ape relatives have more tolerance for "beta" behavior because it benefits the groups survivability to not have lone alphas trying to out-do each other, steal the women, and kill off the babies. But there is always a spectrum. Not every man dreams of "the one" or naturally puts women on these special disney princess pedestals like many of us have.

Another source of wisdom comes from comparing Chimpanzees with Bonobos -- almost the same species except bonobos were physically isolated by waterways from competitors and have wider food access than chimps; chimps have to share territory with Gorillas, which are herbivorous and dominate the ground foliage, confining chimps to finding food in the trees; bonobos have no such competitor and have access to both ground, and tree-based forage. They have been able to evolve a more gentle "free love" society in comparison to their Chimp cousins.

Chimps are far more aggressive, territorial and temperamental while Bonobos keep the peace with massive orgies. They both are our closest living genetic relatives. The hypothesis is humans exhibit strong features from both groups. Even amongst the most ancient, peaceful cultures (the Kalihari Bushman like the !Kung and San), fights do break out occasionally and are triggered by jealousy between sexual partners. Yet we are definitely tribal and have a need to be around other people.

My hypothesis is the modern beta male/bluepill has a strong inclination towards romance/"the one"/caregiving instincts because A) we're strongly domesticated and B) we don't have a tribe anymore...We are isolated and often find it hard to get female attention when we attempt to apply this bluepill strategy to our larger social environment.

From my own experience and my own social circle, I have some strong male friends with girlfriends that are flirtatious and friendly with me; we tease each other openly yet I don't have any desire to encourage them to cheat on their boyfriends; I'm firmly bros before hoes -- Yet, I can still get some enjoyment from the female energy. An anecdote: There are stories of fighter pilots in wartime who were very, very close to their male comrades (they trained together, they knew what was expected of each other, they killed together) and they swapped wives with each other... The idea was that any one of them could die any day and they would not want their mates going into the world with just anyone, might as well establish a bond with a man they trust to take care of their woman and their kids if shit went wrong.. This is interesting to me.

Ultimately, what I'm trying to get at is our individualistic culture isolates us and makes the beta/caregiving strategy grossly inflamed. The "nuclear family" is a thing, but the way it exists in these little isolated boxes causes a lot of dysfunction in all involved. My belief is the nuclear family should be "plugged in" to a more tribal subculture and we should be closer to other people. I think that might alleviate the pain that comes from not being able to express that biological drive to pair bond in the idealistic way we are led to believe.

TL;DR: Abundance mentality vs. Scarcity mentality. Alpha sexual strategies vs. Beta sexual strategies. Both have a biological purpose. Culture is capable of aggravating and antagonizing either drive.

[–]goldaxis 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That doesn't really answer my question, but you raise a lot of interesting points. Where did you hear all this? What do you think would be a better alternative to the "isolated boxes" of the nuclear family? How do you think the breakdown of the family is affecting all this?

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

Its from years of reading and watching stuff (studied some anthropology in college and always been a evolutionary psych/ecology/biology nerd)-- I'll try to pull together a handful of a links as a starting point:

https://evolutionaryanthropology.duke.edu/research/3chimps/chimps-bonobos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_izpq0Ar-Y the "promiscuous bonobo" thing is often exaggerated based on observations in zoos. In the wild they have much less frequent sex but it still is rather promiscuous by comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWZAL64E0DI This is a lecture from Robert Sapolsky, primatologist, neurologist and researcher of stress. He has a famous episode involving a baboon troop he studied over the years. Botulism wiped out the Alpha males who hogged the food resource from a human trash dump, leaving the Betas and females. They basically changed their culture and when new outsider males came and tried to run the old aggression script, they were ignored and with grooming and other pacifying behavior, changed the culture to this day (happened decades ago).

My interest is in the panoply of intentional communities -- they have a wide variety of arrangements politically, socially, religiously and economically and are not to be confused with the term "commune" where people share everything. I'm not interested in communism. Intentional communities are simply communities of people leaving near each other with agreed upon systems for social cohesion. Communes are a subtype of intentional community however.

My loose hypothesis is that human beings in scarcity mentalities allow many of the plagues of civilization to occur. We're more susceptible to exploitation and being reactive/passive to the problems in the world. Humans in abundance are capable of designing solutions and helping out their fellows. Scarcity creates victims, hoarding, and stronger tendencies for addiction, violence, narrow-mindededness etc. I think that communities (of whatever design) offer a resiliency to the human psyche and allow us to realize that when shit hits the fan, we have others that can help tighten the slack.

In my ideal view, an intentional community wouldn't look a hell of a lot different than what we have now, except people in proximity would have agreed upon standards and events that foster a closeness and generosity. I personally want complete command of my private home and private land, but I'm open to shared resources that involve a group effort to maintain. Kids can sort of "free range" in the community (like they used to here, and still do elsewhere) vs. the "latch key" syndrome that many of us grew up with. They get social skills and figure out how to resolve conflicts. This topic could be expanded indefinitely so I'll cut myself off here.

In our system, the breakdown of the family places an abnormal amount of stress on individuals (not to mention the artificial hell we've created with the divorce court). In a community (or simply a good, extended family), that kind of separation wouldn't be such a traumatic blow. Family can step in and ease the fallout with the resources of food, attention, shelter if needed, etc.

Again, I gotta cut myself off, this is a drop in the bucket of what we could talk about. My hunch though is if we alleviated social isolation to some degree many of us would have a much more abundant view of sex and partnership (as good game and arriving at "amused mastery" at the end of the Red Pill journey offers) and could find what we're looking for better (and be less devastated when we lose it).

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Much like football or basketball, society is a team game. Having 5-10% of your teammates be competent when 90% of your team are idiots who'll grovel, beg, and buy dinners for the fat dumb sluts still completely fucks it up for everyone

[–]Lsegundo[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

fucks it up or makes it easier? One ex continually mentioned the fact that I didn't pay for the first date. It set me apart and above the weak men that need to "buy" time with her.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Fucks it up because the overall quality of women is factors of magnitude lower.

Easier because it's easier to bang the sluts not even really worth dicking down.

Perspective, I suppose.

[–]Eckus points points [recovered]

So you do not socialize, you've never dated, you do not even attempt to engage, but you're utterly confident in your conclusions about amorphous generalizations of women and society?

Try engaging and see if it changes your mind. The places you occupy on the internet are probably fountains of negativity.

[–]goldaxis 2 points3 points  (1 child)

No doubt the internet has a lot of that, but I'm not surrounded by bitter bachelors either. Most of my friends are either in relationships or married (with kids even). It's not that I never date - I do, and it seems easy enough to form a relationship similar to what they have, but I want something different. I'm not willing to lower myself to the "netflix n chill" level that a lot relationships are at.

[–]idgaf- 4 points5 points  (3 children)

  • Try nofap, you'll get over your disappointment in women quickly.
  • Get off the internet & negative spaces
  • Get out of bars & clubs. Plenty of normal women out there, try college activities, daytime events & hobbies.
  • Only 1% of women worthy? Approach 100.

How do you beat the odds and form a relationship worth having?

The only relationship truly worth having is with yourself, the present moment, and peace of mind. Meditate. You really do not need anything external for unlimited happiness.

[–]goldaxis 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I am a huge proponent of mediation, spiritual development, and self-awareness, but it's just as wrong to suggest that nothing external is required for self-fulfillment as it is to say that self-fulfillment can only be achieved through external things. Everyone needs something to reach their potential. Certain assets, inspiration, information, or experiences that enable you to do more.

[–]Mr-Euffreducci 1 point2 points  (1 child)

My question is: what do you do when you refuse to play along with this degenerative bullshit? How do you beat the odds and form a relationship worth having?

Leave the western world for Eastern Europe or South East Asia?

[–]Docbear64 0 points1 point  (2 children)

So My cousin and I had a chat this weekend and he dropped some knowledge on me that might help you ? " You'll never find the perfect woman but you will find one that you can tolerate" . Bleak statement , yes but I think it illustrates the point that Unicorns don't exist. You may never find a woman who has worked on herself as much as you have worked on yourself . I don't think it's impossible to find one that at least doesn't suck .

Again it's not the Rainbow in the sky message riddled with hope and if you're looking for your equal in a womans body I think you're doomed for disappointment . But maybe it doesn't have to be all bad right ?

[–]goldaxis 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I accept the possibility that I may not find someone, but I still think it is better to try than to lower my standards. Better to be unhappy and alone, than unhappy in a relationship.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child)

instruct her not to wear panties when you are hanging out

this one works wonders. first girl i ever f-closed on the first date, it was drinks only, she only had half a beer before we left, and the whole time after she's asking "wtf, where did you learn all that?" just act like a fucking man. women are so unused to men acting like men that it gives them hardcore tingles. tell a girl "wear a skirt" and tell a girl "go to the bathroom, take your panties off, come back, and put them inside my jacket pocket." do not ask. real men do not ask.

[–]The_M0rning_Star 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Well you ask with your tone. There's a huge difference in demanding a girl's panties, and hinting that she will be well rewarded if she hands them over voluntarily. Second one is what gives 'em tingles.

[–]Docbear64 98 points99 points  (62 children)

Men reported that they want women to take charge, with a little over 90% of men are in favor of a woman making the first move when it comes to kissing and sex... the message is lost in translation, with only 29% of women reporting that they would initiate a first kiss, and only 13% asking for a phone number. Many men have been socially castrated. Women still want a man that takes the lead.

This is the thing that bothers me most about my millennial peers and partially because I used to be just like them . The timid Equality-focused need for a womans immediate and direct approval before you fucking make a move . I can recall a few situations before this sub when Women were giving me fucking smoke signals to do SOMETHING ANYTHING to indicate sexual interest because she had it for me and I fucked it up .

So when I see friend making the same mistake who doesn't want to " bother" a woman who looks like she is showing him signs she's interested it drives me up the fucking wall .

I just want to let every man know that showing women attention is only " bothering " them if they aren't interested in you and you won't know if she's interested in you if you don't say or try SOMETHING . Rejection sucks absolutely but the sting of that is infinitely better then the lingering " What if's " .

I can't stand most millennial bashing but fuck if it's not true that a lot of us don't have balls .

[–]1Goomich 39 points40 points  (9 children)

Pornhub won't accuse you of rape.

[–]t12totalxyzb00 points points [recovered]

And even if you watch rape roleplay, it's perfectly okay.

Women on the other hand: autistic screeching

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 18 points19 points  (5 children)

Coming soon: men are oppressing women by being taller and stronger.

Solutions involve testosterone injections for women, stilts for women, and chopping men off at the knees ...

[–]Schhwing 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Lol. This comment perfectly gives the lie to all of the modern feminist "oppression" crapola. Men are just naturally better than women at certain things. And we need to realise this to have a healthy society.

I strongly dislike modern feminism's complaints about male dominated careers. That they are oppressed out of certain roles etc. could it be that most men make better CEOs, leaders and engineers? Many people would call me "sexist" for having that view, but look back at history and you'll see it makes sense.

This is something I often think about, and you hilariously summed it up.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 3 points4 points  (2 children)

could it be that most men make better CEOs, leaders and engineers?

To even say that women are different is to invite relentless "sexist misogynistic shitlord!" comments, a form of shaming that is only applied to men of course.

Only once "women are different and actually worse at some things" reenters the mainstream will we be able to openly have this discussion.

  • Women are not as good at some things

  • Women show less deviation from the norm, more men are the outliers (geniuses and retards). This skews the wage stats in the male favour (the genius CEO more than counters the non-earnings of the retard).

  • Men HAVE to work harder - no soft comfortable beta-provided safety net awaits us

  • Men negotiate promotion and pay raises better (women often simply fail to do it).

  • Women often take time out to have children (or do other personal projects). During this time they receive support that is NOT counted as income, and men provide support that is NOT deducted from their income, thereby hugely distorting the "total lifetime money earned" to make men's income appear higher and women's lower than it really is.

  • Because women are spending less time in the workplace, they do not reach as many of the higher and better paid positions.

  • Women hate facts, because factually they get equality with special treatment. Therefore "fuck the facts" is more effective than admitting (and hence losing) their privilege.

[–]Schhwing 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Spot on man. I can't believe that these arguments get accusations of misogyny when they are clearly the only logical truths on the matter.

When we reach a society run by feminist emotional demands we are doomed.

[–]1StoicCrane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh. Already been to this feature. It's a good movie. Ends up with no one truly happy and the societal fabric being destroyed on account of mass androgyny. Must see film.

[–]WillMatte points points [recovered]

No one should have to deal with all that. Men want women to take change because they instinctively know that this would be a more efficient system.

No man WANTS this, we just recognize that the way things are set up makes this objectively better.

[–]Docbear64 42 points43 points  (30 children)

I will agree it's not the mens fault entirely because we are programmed that it's not consent unless it's EXPLICIT consent .....women rarely explicitly consent to anything . Not to where there want to go out to eat , not whether they want to go out , not even to what movies to watch . It will absolutely get worse though I don't doubt it . Essentially we need a RedPill woman to get popular in the mainstream media because I think it will take one popular Susie Home maker to right the ship . Not gonna happen in an era where Amy Schumer is a representation of the " average" woman

[–]WillMatte points points [recovered]

There will be no great female savior, lol. WTF.. you need to realize that 99.9% of women DO NOT empathize with males whatsoever. The only way for this to change is for it to start hurting women.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 20 points21 points  (2 children)

And stop calling everything 'programming'. It's not programming; it's a rational decision men are making due to the current sexual dynamic.

Disagree. When I was too timid, insecure or indecisive around women, my problem wasn't that I was making a rational decision to protect myself against any sort of legal fallout - this never really crossed my mind. It was because I was indoctrinated to think that women

  • are into thoughtful and smart guys
  • hate it when guys are pestering them
  • are strong and decisive and have no problem making the first step
  • need "friendship" first and therefore hate it when you are overly sexual in their dealings with them

i.e. I thought that making the first step would only contribute to me fucking things up, while waiting for a woman to do it was a valid course of action. Don't know about you, but I am calling this "programming".

[–]1Entropy-7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I could count on one hand the times when the "sexual dynamic" influenced my dealings with women. Even during and after law school, it was only a subtle change in approach. But back in the day, ya it was programming and I only got re-programmed by making changes in my life and realizing for myself what women actually are like - starting a hell of a long time before there was such a thing as TRP.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The point of being a man is to make risky but rational decisions. We push boundaries. We charge hills. We work in fucking coal mines.

A "woman's" power is she cares only for herself and her progeny. Now consider how that instinct and thinking expands to a movement. You get women wearing pussy hats with no idea why they're doing it.

We need women. They push us not to be pussy faggot fucks on both the individual level and societal level. Men have to be reminded what our place is in the order. War is generally the maker of men.

Be discontent. Every man has the making of a king in his genes. Women are a symptom not the problem. We deserve to be incarcerated and beat down.

The redpill says to enjoy the decline. That's horseshit. Everything we experience is built by men.

[–]Docbear64 19 points20 points  (14 children)

Hence exactly why I said there need to be a female Savior . Women won't become better women because men want them to they will become better women because a Happy woman they look up to tells them to . If they are herd creatures they need a leader to influence them . Women influencing women is what got us to where we are so perhaps that can be the solution as well .

It is programming in the sense that you are told to believe , behave, and act a certain way . What else shall I call it indoctrination ? Brainwashing ? It's creating a paradigm you want an individual to embrace the world through . Lots of men behave how they're "supposed" to not how they want to, again something I can attest to from a prior point within my own life.

If you want to go MGTOW I can respect that decision that's not for me though and It's not pushing through bullshit it's embracing what the average modern woman is and understanding how to operate in a way that benefits myself . If you don't want to play the game more power to you , I'd rather take the rules and bend them to my will .

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

Docbear64, IMO: its going to take a groundswell of highschoolers going into college and confronting professors of these departments with the HARD SCIENCE that refutes this gender-equity blank slate nonsense. For any readers here, check out the sideboard link to the Norwegian documentary from that comedian that showed all these gender studies idiots HAVE NO SCIENTIFIC GROUNDS TO THEIR OPINIONS. The science (supported by male and female scientists and evolutionary psych researchers around the world) refutes these claims.

[–]goldaxis 9 points10 points  (10 children)

It's exceptionally naive to believe you can reason this insane cultural poison away. It is not a widespread misconception. It is by design.

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

I harbor no naive idealizations of "reasoning it away". The point I made was there would be no "culture hero" to save us from this ubiquitous misinformation and it would require massive PARTICIPATION in opposition to the idea that you should just massively surrender. People are converted all the time one by one.

I know a lot of conspiratorial types like to blame "them" and huddle away masturbating in their bedrooms and cursing the illuminati. Just like feminists like to blame the patriarchy...except feminists are more effective with their social media circle jerking, widespread protests, and man-shaming.

Go ahead and be passive if you want. I don't think my efforts alone are going to do anything to stem the tide of bad ideas but I do what I can to spread good information.

[–]goldaxis 2 points3 points  (7 children)

I mean, if you think it's bad now, you haven't seen a modern high schooler or college student. You're up against the entire educational system, a government-run conveyor belt for every inane liberal agenda you can think of. You can flatter yourself by talking down on the "conspiratorial types" as much as you want, but the fact is that this ideology is institutionalized, and your meager posting and personal interactions will never mean jack shit until that institution is broken.

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

Productive people don't wait for magical solutions. Binary and absolutist thinking isn't effective. Do you have asperger's (seriously)?

I'm talking about an attitude and approach to life and persons who disagree with you. To be engaged and willing to talk to people who don't agree.

Its easy to see everything as a unified black and white. Its much harder to break black and white thinking. The people tackling the institution-wide problems that you're talking about, that get their voices heard and lead organizations don't sit back and wait for someone else to come lead the charge and wave their righteous swords at the 'bad guys' and "whoosh it all goes away".

It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with a constructive-mentality.

[–]1Entropy-7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"I just don't see why that [the study/research] is interesting"

That was one of the Golden Moments of that series (and there were many).

[–]LazyDriver points points [recovered]

99.9%? Dude, I know a lot of women, and believe me, they know the struggle. They're not all 1000% rape-accusing Feminazis.

You want empathy and love? Look to yourself first.

Do you empathize with Big Bertha, the fat BBW whale from Two Chins, Arkansas when she asks you out?

Now imagine on every street corner, it's Big Bertha. And they're all hitting on you. And unlike Big Bertha, they can actually chase you down and fuck you to death - though if you let Big Bertha catch up, she'll smother your ass with gravy.

As men, when we seduce women, we gotta overcome that. Cause while we're chill, those fucking creepy people make dating hard.

Which means you gotta act fast, and try to keep the emotions on the same level.

[–]WillMatte points points [recovered]

Can you people stop fucking lecturing and talk about this generally? This is NOT ABOUT ME personally. I don't come on the TRP for advice; I already know how to handle women. Jesus.

Yes, we all know how disgusting and weird beta males are. And I actually, have the utmost empathy for women who go through this because I go through it myself.

But back to the OBJECTIVE point. Men don't know their SMV until they swing and miss. Soceity paints these "misses" as sexual assults so why are you wondering why MEN ARE RATIONALLY DECIDING NOT TO SWING?

It's like I'm talking to computer programs designed to miss the point about everything and make everything personal.

[–]1Entropy-7 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Guys have to learn when to check-swing or bunt.

[–]The_Best_01 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean they don't need to be "Susie home maker" exactly, but just someone who isn't brainwashed by society like most women.

[–]TangoZulu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree 100% and will point out that men (and especially young men) live in a complete state of cultural confusion. It's not that they are pussies so much as there are no longer clear rules of acceptable behavior. We live in a time where sexual consent can be revoked after the fact if the woman later feels badly about her actions, "unwanted sexual attention" (i.e. being propositioned) is considered sexual assault, and even hypothetical lewd statements ("I COULD just grab her pussy) is somehow an admission of guilt. It's hard to find fault in men that want women to make the first move when we live in a bizarro Minority Report age where you have to know the outcome of an encounter beforehand in order to avoid committing a crime.

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

WillMatte -- What are you suggesting men do "to let this pattern run its course"?

Seems like the disagreements you're having here are with guys that seem to think your suggestion implies passively opting out of the game. Since you didn't explain that, I'm curious.

I also agree that things have to get worse before they get better (with any social issue).

[–]WillMatte points points [recovered]

80% of males will lose in the dating game; the other 20% will have women come to them.

Literally, if women are attracted to you they WILL come to you or make it so obvious that getting them is easy. Anyone who doesn't know this is not attractive.

Those 80% of men that women are not interested are ALSO the men who get portrayed as creepers. These guys need to improve their SMV and fall the hell back and starve women out. That is how the problem will be solved.

Women let men make the moves because it gives them POWER. That is the only reason. Idiots like LazyDriver think they are scared cuz he has no experience.

[–]Battle-Scars 4 points5 points  (6 children)

You can deal with it or not deal with it, women want men to take charge, that's what they respond to. You are buying into the social narrative of the last 30 years and giving up your power as a masculine man because that's what you think will get you laid. You are running scared because you give women way to much power. Take that shit back, stand your ground, be masculine, you will separate yourself from every pussy millennial that that thinks woman have all the power.

[–]WillMatte points points [recovered]

You are such a fucking bore. Did I ever say it will "help me get laid". Learn to read what someone is saying instead of making ass these retarded-ass assumptions.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The timid Equality-focused need for a womans immediate and direct approval before you fucking make a move

Men want clear signals.

Women want to avoid responsibility.

That's a match made in hell if I ever saw one.

[–]GetaPoas 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The fact is as men we gotta do the work. You know i work five days a week right? Do you care? Does some cunt care? No...but on top of it I have to dance and twerk to validate female's approval because God forbid they move their fat ass.

So they better approve or they're going straight into a garbage can. Like literally pick them up and throw them in a fucking garbage can.

[–]Returnofthemack3 14 points15 points  (0 children)

it's sad that people defend this statistic as if it's a Good Thing. Sexual liberation woo hooooo. I honestly fit into this category, as sad as that is to admit, and I don't feel like it's a good thing. Just in case anyone thinks im a prude or something. Been around a bit and done a lot of stupid shit, and i'm worse off for it imho.

[–]slothsenpai 27 points28 points  (6 children)

Before swallowing the red-pill (and early red-pill days), I'd always followed society's ways of having to go on multiple dates with women, "get to know them first" etc before even considering sex. But now after having a grasp on this modern dating paradigm, it's mainly just 'straight to the door' sex for me now.

We can go on about "sloots gonna sloot" and harbour on about "failures in Feminism this and that" but to be honest, it's made sex more convenient at least. If a girl is actually interesting and might be a possible FwB/LTR prospect, then I wouldn't mind a date at least. Though if all I want is just sex, then I'm simply not gonna go through the troubles of getting to know them and all that bullshit. I'm there to have fun, I'm not gonna pretend that I give a fuck about their day jobs, or their stupid cats or what their friend Sally did or try hard in establishing chemistry/emotional connection when all I want is just to put my dick in some snatch and leave. I'm straight to the point, it's mainly betas who over invest and wind up in the friendzone.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

How extreme are you in skipping dates? Do you just tell them to come over or do you meet for a drink and then head straight to fucking?

[–]askmrcia 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Not him, but to answer your question, yes that's exactly what I do. Ask them to either come over to watch Netflix, dinner or play Xbox kinnect.

Or meet for drinks close to their place or mine and depending on logistics I often pick them up so I can control where to go.

Last two dates. One met up at a wine bar. The girl mentioned she lived alone (hint) and eventually I told her we should go back to her place so I can see her house.

Girl before that, had her drive to my house on the first date, we left to go ice skating and came back to finish the deed.

Girl before that, had her meet me at my place so we can leave together to go ice skating. Never even went ice skating.

Multiple dates is a waste of time. Trust me, I grew up thinking you should take them on dates first to get to know them, but I learned time and time again that it's a waste of time. With all that said, seeing how easy women give it up makes me never want to marry them or date them seriously. I honestly lost respect for them.

[–]goldaxis 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What kind of girl shows up for Xbox kinect?

[–]askmrcia 3 points4 points  (0 children)

LOL almost any of them. You just need an excuse to get them back to your house. You can have them come see your dog, try some dinner dish you made or whatever.

I choose Kinnect because its like the only thing interesting I got outside a turtle and the Kinnect is some form of active activity. So if you don't want to say Netflix, I say Kinnect.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

its good and bad. When I was younger getting laid was all I cared about. Now getting laid is much easier.

Just getting it wet doesn't satisfy me anymore. ONS feel like a waste of my time and I try to vet the women at least slightly to see if they have FWB potential.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Good post. Interestingly useless statistics from them:

48% more likely to have sex before a first date

48% more likely than what though? This is a meaningless comparative statistic... has it gone from 1% to 1.48% or 10% to 14.8% or what?

34% of singles have had sex before a first date

Not useful information (and deliberately clickbaity) - because it only relates to "did this happen once" rather than useful info like "what's my odds as a man of getting sex without all that dating crap".

The majority of men believe that feminism has changed dating 
for the better, with only 35% saying that the rise of gender 
equality has made dating worse

How would they know? They never dated pre-feminism. It would be interesting to ask a comparative question like "Do you think feminism has made men more or less respected in the world".

the message is lost in translation, with only 29% of women 
reporting that they would initiate a first kiss, and only 13% 
asking for a phone number.

I bet this is mostly hamstering and although 29% of women believe they would initiate a first kiss, 99% won't when it comes down to it. And even if they have to, they prefer the man to.

The message is most certainly not "lost in translation". The message is heard and understood by women, who wilfully ignore it because... well.... feels.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"what's my odds as a man of getting sex without all that dating crap".

Are you in good shape? willing to bang 6-7 or holding out for 9s? Odds are 98% for a guy in good shape willing to go for slightly above average women . I know that was a rhetorical question.

I think you can dig in deeper to the survey at match. There was a link there somewhere.

[–]1Shyrk 25 points26 points  (1 child)

31-year-old checking in.

Recently, I went for longer than two weeks without getting laid for the first time since I lost my virginity at 16. I haven't been "on a date" since my last LTR 3 years ago, and even before her, the closest I've gotten to a "date" is meeting for drinks first. That's basically the Millenial version of a date now anyway -- the bar has successfully been lowered.

Don't waste your money.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

One of my buddies took this girl out and ended up paying a grand total of like $200 for the night (uber, show, dinner, uber again) and at the end she LMRd and sent him on his merry way. When me and my boys found out we hazed him until he learned his lesson.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 25 points26 points  (0 children)


The Blue Pill mythology has been created to make men beta and women sluts.

Who are the women interested in when they maximize their slutty feelz?

Chad Thundercock.

Chad Thundercock was made dominant because of the Blue Pill mythology.

The goal of the Blue Pill is to destroy the family and remove fathers from the lives of children so that the State controls everything. (improving brainwashing efficiency)

When you "Enjoy the Decline" you are effectively playing along with the system.

If you "Enjoy the Destruction" of the Blue Pill mythology then you take pleasure in waking up betas to the system and doing what you can to ultimately bring the system down.

Ideally the Blue Pill laws would be removed.

Things like Child Support and Alimony should not exist because they violate Natural Laws. (they recreate the conditions of male slavery)

With a potential destruction of the Blue Pill mythology ("Kill the Beta") one can expect things to revert to Natural Laws in a non-inverting configuration.

The Blue Pill is the inversion of Natural Laws. (it's not truly "natural" because it exists because there are people in power who want it to exist)

Has there ever been a time without inversion?

Well... probably no, not 100% anyway.

History seems to flow in cycles stretching over hundreds of years and civilization patterns go from being in alignment with Natural Laws and then to the inversion of those laws. If you study the patterns they tend to repeat in predictable ways.

The end of cycle is the "destruction of filth" and many see us as entering that phase now.


[–]Steve_Wiener 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The survey found that men are 43% more likely than women to believe that having sex helps to builds an emotional connection with a partner.

I've been seeing this myself lately. And they say men are the crude ones.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

women have always used sex as currency. In many cases its transnational for them.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

After a big break seeing a plate, finally had an afternoon where I could spare some time to remind her why she missed me. After her dress was pulled up, she began telling me that she missed how I took charge and how I made her feel like a bad little girl.

Reading this, if you can just make a move, you're already in the top 10% of men as far as masculinity goes.

[–]fcb98292 3 points4 points  (0 children)

SE Asia is teeming with Western men who are sick of the modern feminist bullshit that makes up the dating game. Most, but not all, are frustrated by the lack of women available to them as blue-pillers. There is a reason for this. With feminism came the desire of females to get all they can get, and this includes their sport of cock-riding.

However, an increasing number of sex tourists are returning home for the hunt. TRP is making the difference. Guys are becoming better, more attractive, higher value. TRP is teaching them how to change their attitudes about women and life by changing themselves first. And since attraction is the bottom line in fucking most women without drama, TRP is the cure for the man frustrated with the dating game. If he has the balls to change.

[–]BaronVonNrx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What a nightmare modernity has become. Women with more than 10 sexual partners can't stay married and are far more likely to be unable to conceive due to pelvic inflammation during their sloot years.

[–]xXaroundtheworldXx 1 point2 points  (0 children)

HARM yourself with knowledge...

[–]1Entropy-7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Depending on how you define it, the "sex before a first date" has been relatively common for me. If "date" includes having a meal or watching movie at their place or yours before you sleep together, then less so. There were a couple of work colleagues who made the conversion and one who I was friendly with who became a FWB without dating per se, but it seems to be the nature of internet dating (and I will date myself - in the other sense of the word - as an older Gen-X by adding telephone dating in the decade or so while the internet was really becoming a thing) that you chit chat, and then you might decide to meet for a date, or decide to meet to decide if you are going to have sex without a date.

Millenials are much more likely to use Tinder or other internet dating so it isn't surprising that they would be more likely to go for the hook up rather than a "date" before having sex.

[–]HoundDogs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, I'm also hearing that the group coming up behind millennials are far less socially liberal and, strangely, tend to lean conservative politically.

I wonder if that's not the generation to really focus on. Seems like millennials are a lost cause and they're just inevitably going to end up as a fuck ton of single plant/cat ladies and old men playing VR games.

[–]PaulAJK 1 point2 points  (1 child)

"The survey found that men are 43% more likely than women to believe that having sex helps to builds an emotional connection with a partner."

My goodness, that's almost too red for me. I've always thought you don't really exist for a girl until you've banged her, but from there on it's different. Either they're deluding themselves or the great majority of women are messed up.

[–]Up_Up_A_Way 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Why bother with the data when TRP is going to look at the numbers and then "Yeah 'cause they're betas" or worse, "Here what they really mean.."

I mean fuck, man. We shit on girls for acting on their "feelz" and not fact based evidence or logical reasoning, then we upvote this garbage post? Feelzy-beta hypocrites.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is the point youre trying to make?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You just mpve the panties to the side

[–]vagbutters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is why I'll never understand the plight of the beta male. Why on earth would you sacrifice your life's work to pay for regular sex? When the woman you want to marry gave her pussy to various Chads for free, it's time to seriously reconsider what a gigantic loser you must be for even considering the prospect. Be the Chad who gets pussy for free-- don't be the skinnyfat dude who hamsters away marrying a slut.

[–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And yet Millennials are having less sex than their parents.


What this is about is our new social confusion about Sexual Zoning:


[–]Mckallidon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They're also more likely to jerk off than have sex.

[–]geo_gan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"You can fuck women without even bothering with the date, or an hour into the first date, when your SMV is high enough"

I have once fucked a female who I barely spoke two words to (neither got others first name even) - she just brought me into the womens toilet in a club while her boyfriend was upstairs in club.

[–]Fedor_Gavnyukov 3 points4 points  (0 children)

enjoy the decline.

exactly. nothing to pout over. make everything an opportunity.

[–]NietzscheExplosion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This Post and replies made me 93% more concerned about HPV and Herpes.

You kids can have your sexual marketplace and shove it up your ass.

[–]prophecycake 0 points1 point  (2 children)

This doesn't say if it's an equal number of males/females or if Chad gets the pussy without wasting his money.

Hwut. I'm guessing it's an about equal number of males and females fucking before the first date, unless you were imagining a bunch of lesbians and/or chicks hopping on nonexistant dicks.

Remember the Chads are "giving it up" too.

[–]BaronVonNrx 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"About equal". Are you high? It's 90/10 rule..basically 90% of the women are fucking and 10% of the men, which comes to 1/2.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remember the Chads are "giving it up" too.

It is more women having sex without dating. That is almost always available to them. Chad fucks women without dating them alot. Some men have that rarely. Lots of men do not have that at all.

Crazy shit has been happening for me over the past few years. It is really an eye opener when you climb the fence and see what happens on the other side.

[–]KnowBrainer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Totally explains why there's so many abortions

[–]DntPnicIGotThis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know I see the world differently since being introduced to TRP. I can even see the woman's hampster wheel turning in TV and movies now. Its almost second nature now.

Edit. Am I the only who tried to upvote the individual bullet points in the original post?

[–]dudeguymanthesecond 0 points1 point  (10 children)

Are you still wasting money on dates? LOL. This doesn't say if it's an equal number of males/females or if Chad gets the pussy without wasting his money.

34% of people have had the equivalent of a one night stand encounter. This doesn't equate to 34% of people always fucking before dating.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Better than 3 in 10 women will fuck without you spending a dime on them. Raise your SMV enough and you can save your money for yourself or women that are worth occasionally spending it on.

[–]dudeguymanthesecond 0 points1 point  (6 children)

3/10 women have fucked without someone spending a dime on them.

Ayy bby, you want some reading comprehension?

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

3.4/10 women...

It is probably more like 60% of women and 8% of men... add the two sexes together and you get 34% people. Ill trade you reading comprehension for some math tutoring.

[–]dudeguymanthesecond 0 points1 point  (4 children)

You're angry at me for directly quoting you? I already stated 34%.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

No. The first part is I am unsure what point you are trying to make. The second part is I'd like to see that stat broken down by sex. Im guessing match didnt reveal it by sex because it would be evidence sloots gonna sloot.

[–]dudeguymanthesecond 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The first part is I am unsure what point you are trying to make.

A made up stat: 35% of people have smoked pot. A terrible deduction from that made-up stat: 35% of people are high right now.

Im guessing match didnt reveal it by sex because it would be evidence sloots gonna sloot.

Making outright guesses based on a preconceived notion like that only puts the rest of your arguments (which tend to be similar) in question.

Information first, deduction second. Be scientific about it.

[–]Lsegundo[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It isn't an outright guess. It is an estimation based on my personal experiences, things I have been told or witnessed over multiple decades in locker rooms, and things women have admitted to me.

We all know women get propositioned for sex a lot and men are in the desert until they elevate their SMV to a certain level. It is highly probably more women are making "fuck dates" than men. Do you even sidebar?

I stand by my estimation that many more women are having sex without dating.

[–]dudeguymanthesecond 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Basing a conclusion on your own retrospect of anecdotal evidence is about as much of a guess as is possible.

[–]TheFrenchFondler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Regardless of the fact that these women spread their legs at the drop of a high SMV hat, I will not let one of them raise my child. Fuck. That. In my mind, that's what dating is for

[–]sunkindonut149 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We're going to hell in a handbasket. Fuck this generation and their herpes

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