567
568

Red Pill TheoryScience Confirms - Always Leave Her Wanting More (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by tddaygame

Summary: I've never thought that I find such great dating advice in a book about... economy. But here are some dating tips backed by science and verified infield.

The book is of course the great and only "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman. Now don't get any weird ideas. It's a book about decision making (mostly), cognitive biases and behavioral economic. You'll learn that we humans are terrible when estimating anything, especially probabilities.

There are many chapters that offer insights into how people work and decide but the eye opening bit was actually about memories. So let's bring some science into dating.

 

Your Date Will Be Only A Memory

 

You have to assume the first date with a girl is going to follow one of two scenarios: either you'll get a first date lay (yay) or not (aww) and you'll have to go out with her more than once to close the deal. That means her first date with you will fade into her memory. And memories are funny things.

The examples provided in "Thinking, Fast and Slow" were astonishing - people remembered more painful experiences as less unpleasant just because those episodes ended in decrease in pain levels. It didn't even matter that they were suffering for much longer.

I won't bore you with all the details but here's the summary: research shows in a repeatable and surprising way that people do not take the duration into account when they consider their past experiences. Only peak and final level of stimulus are taken into account.

The original research mentioned in the "Thinking, Fast and Slow" was done on people experiencing... a very unpleasant medical examination. From colonoscopy to dating tips.

This is how we remember our experiences - movies we see, vacations we take and also our dates. To simplify - we take the average of peak and final level to form our general impression. That's why rainy days at the end of your trip ruin your memories while they're a mere nuance when they happen to be at the beginning of your vacation.

 

Dating Tips Brought To You By Science&tm;

 

If we want to apply the above reasoning to our favorite topic we will come up with few very powerful dating tips. First and foremost - the length of the date doesn't matter. You can have great 30 minutes coffee date or equally good bar crawl that lasted 4 hours. When the adventure fades into her memories they will be equalized.

Also it is very important to do at least one memorable thing during the date. A spike. Something that will pop up right in her mind when she think about the time you've spent together. It can be an event, a venue, a feeling, a game you played, a move you've made, a kiss, a ride - whatever was the highlight of the evening.

But the biggest piece of dating advice would be to not let the date end badly. It's far better to cut the date short and leave her with a great memory than to destroy that impression by trying too hard.

You have to take into account that the discussed mechanism applies to memories. When she's experiencing the date she should enjoy every moment of it. If you're going for a same day lay then her memories won't matter - they won't be formed yet.

It's easy to be entertaining, funny and/or interesting for 60 minutes. It's very hard to have a great experience for 3 hours. And the more time you spend together the higher are the chances that it will all fizzle out and you'll leave her with mediocre impression.

End your dates on high notes. Learn the logistic, calculate the probability of sleeping with the girl that night and if it doesn't seem very likely - cut the date short when you two are still having fun. Be the one to say it's over. Lead.

Also make sure there is a "peak" somewhere along the way so she'll be left with the impression that a) whole experience was enjoyable and b) it was too short.

 

Always Leave Her Wanting More

 

This is an old piece of dating advice - "always leave her wanting more". And even though I knew it I haven't really internalized it. I'm still a nerd and I need a reason.

The way we remember things and construct our memories might be just the thing I was looking for. It might not be the best explanation but it fits. And that's good enough for me.

 

Lessons (re)learned:

  • Duration of an event is irrelevant to your impression of it.
  • Always Leave Her Wanting More (ALHWM is not a great acronym...)
  • The length of the date doesn’t matter.
  • Do at least one memorable thing during the date.
  • End the date on a high note. Do not let it end badly, cut it short if you sense impending boredom.

 

If you like that you might want to check out whole daygame blog. Just sayin'.


[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 289 points290 points  (9 children)

Your post hit a peak in the middle, but I'm left feeling a bit "meh" because there was no excitement at the end.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 98 points99 points  (3 children)

Seriously. I was hoping for a nip-slip at the least.

[–]SpankMeDaddy22 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Shit, even a dick-out would have sufficed.

[–]Hey_You_Asked 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Jfc your bar is set high. But I guess that's TRP for you lmao

[–]PM_Me_Yo_Tits_Grrl 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I think the point was that the OP should have left us wanting more

[–]greatslyfer 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So that we have sex with him? No thanks.

[–]yomo86 47 points48 points  (1 child)

I suppose that's why a bang is always remenbered and hamstered. It is the ultimate and only currency of value women have. Thus handing it out is a spike.

[–]vagbutters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also a big reason why you don't wife a slut. She'll only remember Chads' cocks pounding her hard in her youth. Chances are, you won't fuck as well as 50+ random top-tier guys.

[–]Blunter-S-Thompson 30 points31 points  (0 children)

But the biggest piece of dating advice would be to not let the date end badly. It's far better to cut the date short and leave her with a great memory than to destroy that impression by trying too hard.

Take it from a LEGEND. Always leave on a high note

[–]DailyManliness 22 points23 points  (2 children)

I love the idea of focusing on a slightly shorter more memorable night rather than a longer amount of time. Thinking time=investment is a mistake when there's a chance for that fizzling out, it reminds me of the saying "overstaying your welcome."

[–]BullshittingNonsense 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Plus fit in multiple dates in the same night

[–]polakfury 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You should be investing over time and not on one single date if looking for ltr

[–]1empatheticapathetic 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Love your posts at the moment man. Good stuff.

[–]tddaygame[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Thanks! I don't know why but my Polish readers lately have been saying the exact opposite. Well, you cannot make everyone happy.

[–]Cookiest 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree. Solid set of recent posts. Keep it up!

[–]polakfury 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Im Polish and I agree with you

[–]27Rench27 33 points34 points  (17 children)

Funny, I wholeheartedly agree with this post and it's at 36 upvotes. Post saying some guy's a whiteknighting beta for not fucking a girl is at a couple hundred.

[–]mflbatman 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Lately I've had to dig for productive gems on this sub. Lot of hate floating around. Hang in there rench.

[–]27Rench27 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll try, there's definitely some good advice in here. As long as I only come every once in a while, I'll be okay. Thanks bud :)

[–]Corruptdead 1 point2 points  (14 children)

Was that the one where he got the girl home and didn't f-close because something about her saying all guys want is sex?

[–]27Rench27 10 points11 points  (12 children)

Nope, the one that post is shitting on is that the girl said she was down, but only if it was gonna turn into something (e.g. not just a hookup). He didn't want to lie to her just to get some, because that's all he was after.

Apparently that makes you a beta.

[–]Newreddawn 12 points13 points  (4 children)

It was a beta move because he took it on the chin and told her to leave. The right move is to say that you two have a connection and you're open to seeing where it can lead if she is. Taking yourself out of the game to signal virtue is a tragic byproduct of blue pill conditioning. But hey, more for me.

[–]27Rench27 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Except they didn't have a connection beyond a one night hookup and he knew it. That's why he said she should leave.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I agree but this is the way he is attracted to women, for better or for worse. I doubt he would be ravenous over her but then rejects her due to his 'conditioning'. It's not a conscious decision, he simply is automatically putting his values into the situation and if he doesn't want to fuck after he finds out the conditions (whether they're true or not), then that's up to him. Why fuck a girl if he didn't want to?

The reason we have trouble with it here is that we have discovered that in fact following our defined integrity and virtue leads us up shit creek, that women don't respect these values and most importantly that we should base our decisions on 'her actions and not her words'.

Since TRP I've just had to create a big divide in my head between dealing with men and women. Men for the most part I can take their word, I can trust them after basic vetting. But then women my automatic values are now the opposite "ignore her words, do not be empathetic, be narcissistic etc" and he just doesn't know that yet.

Following your ideals is what I'd consider an alpha trait, not beta. He simply has misled ideals.

[–]27Rench27 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Also remember 'misled' is an opinion. Not everybody agrees that girls don't mean what they say and must be ignored before they're attracted to you. It could work for you, it hurts me more than it helps as far as girls are concerned.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a major revelation pushed on this form. Either we're talking about different things/different extremes or we just have different experiences. I don't have a lot of experience but this point fits true in most of my female interactions including sisters and mother.

[–]Corruptdead 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Okay the one I saw was a beta move the guys got the girl right there and loses frame because "all guys want is sex" and he buckles to it. Guys like that are the idiots that bitch about "friend zone" I know cause I was one.

[–]27Rench27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yeah that guy was probably a bitch, they're out there.

[–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (4 children)

It is definitely a "purple" way to think. Like your defense of the subject. The want and need along with the faith that both worlds can be put together in a neat little Disney package.

Don't come to TRP to find a unicorn gun.

[–]27Rench27 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I've actually found some good advice here, as well as people who think like me.

I also found a guy who said if he was near me irl he'd punch me in the throat lol

Reddit is great like that.

[–]p3n1x 0 points1 point  (2 children)

as well as people who think like me.

Purple is Purple. I'm not saying that you are, just to be very aware of it.

Many guys come here, "learn a few tricks" and then think they have unlocked the secrets they need in their current circumstances (ie, they only pay attention to the advice that "makes them feel good"). Only to return and ask "WTF" because they think they were lied too or they find the hole they dug to be deeper than their expectations.

When you read something that really truly pushes against the grain, don't dismiss it, try to figure out why it seems so repulsive.

The guy in the story of this post folded, period. He experienced some "Last Minute Resistance" (LMR) and crumbled. He listened to her words and not her actions. She was at his home to fuck, period. He failed the test, period. He failed, because he chose to "white knight" the situation. That is 'Beta', at best, very purple. She could have easily been testing his Fuck Buddy capability, measuring his clinginess. It was definitely a shot at his overall long term frame. "Oh, but she shouldn't have said such and such" <- oh well, she did.

You see, the missing information from the story is what happened prior to getting to the home. What did he say or do for her to LMR nuke him like that?

(or maybe, we are remembering diff stories)

[–]27Rench27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We're definitely remembering different stories, haha. The one in my story reacted very well, she said she was down to bang but didn't want it to be just a hookup, and he knew it was only gonna be a hookup. Because she'd already been screwed over by guys doing that exact same thing (she'd said it earlier in the night), he decided to tell her he wasn't interested in a relationship and she left without fucking.

Based on the upvotes and many comments I saw on the post shitting on my guy, TRP advocates telling her it's real, fucking the girl, and then leaving in the morning because that's what Alpha Males do. Which is 100% against my grain, I know exactly why, and I will absolutely dismiss that as being an asshole.

I do agree with some people though. I'm not here looking for any specific situational advice, but occasionally will find something to make me go "huh, that'd be interesting to do, would definitely be a bonus for my life." I'm not here for girl advice, I have that side locked down pretty well already, but what gets me is I disagree with a solid 90% of the girl advice on here.

I do thoroughly enjoy the conversations here though, kinda reminds me of worldnews* (fucking automod removes links to any other part of reddit? Seriously?) debates sometimes. People can be totally opposing in their arguments, and remain civil about it (excluding "Ima punch you in da throat bish" guy).

[–]AlwaysFlank 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Someone on here said a while ago that you should give her something at the end of the date (wish I could find the post to give credit). I'm not talking buy her flowers or anything, I'm talking about the top to a bottle of wine you drink or a cheap knick knack or something. Its a physical manifestation of her memory and time with you

[–]goldnhorde 3 points4 points  (0 children)

great post. well written. very good material with a lot of applications. I always enjoy a good mental hack.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Can this correlate to sex because I always cum too early.

[–]tddaygame[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would only think so. There are countless guides out there how to control when you cum.

Focus on your breathing and get a lot of experience. Plus know when you're near and then change position / do something else for a while.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

cum more often to cum less early - look up prolactin. When it's higher good luck trying to cum

[–]8nsxdp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've had this problem before.

On a few occasions I've been out late with a girl, both having a great time but I often have to be up for work at 5am so I quite often have to cut the night short and I've never found a particularly good way to end the night without it being awkward.

[–]aanarchist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

an even better adage, don't waste your energy with women who are mindless consumers who are never happy or satisfied.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What's the skinny on the practice of dating though? Serious question, I haven't been on a date in well over 5 years, because I quite frankly don't have to do the whole charade to get laid, it's much easier chatting someone up at a bar.

I feel your post is relevant to more than dating, it definetly is true for casual hook-ups. If she orgasms it is almost an automatic returning customer, very few girls will resist a guy who they know can give them that.

[–]shango130 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People don't remember what you say or do, they remember how you made them feel.

[–]Kalidane 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Sounds like a great book recommendation. Referenced? The research in this area is pretty amazing and hopefully some of us will want to take it further.

[–]tddaygame[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The author did a lot of research himself. He got a Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences if that means something.

But like I said - the book focuses on decision making and cognitive biases.

[–]Kalidane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

TBH at least a couple of guys with that prize are absolute fucking idiots. Economics seems to be a field where academia consistently doesn't map to application. It borders on the surreal.

I'll put the book on the buy list. Worst that can happen is having a think about the subject.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here's a solid write up (note: it's not a review or a summary, but Derek Sivers' "notes" on the book).

https://sivers.org/book/ThinkingFastAndSlow

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If she sees that smug childish smile on your face, then it's teasing.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

While the main point of the book makes sense, it doesn't help anyone who wants to get that first date lay. Most men on here will not chase after a girl for multiple dates just to get sex. They will jump ship and (hopefully) have multiple dates lined up for many nights. They won't need to go on a second date because they have another first date the next day or maybe even in the same night.

This may be helpful if you're going after one girl or looking for an SO, but most users of this sub are not doing that. Therefore, this information doesn't really help.

Also, I'm seeing a little bit of a contradiction in your post. You say that only the peak and end levels of an experience matter:

To simplify - we take the average of peak and final level to form our general impression. That's why rainy days at the end of your trip ruin your memories while they're a mere nuance when they happen to be at the beginning of your vacation.

Yet you then say to put in a spike anywhere during the date because that's what she will think of:

Also it is very important to do at least one memorable thing during the date. A spike. Something that will pop up right in her mind when she think about the time you've spent together.

You also say that the length of the date doesn't matter:

the length of the date doesn't matter. You can have great 30 minutes coffee date or equally good bar crawl that lasted 4 hours.

But then a few paragraphs down you say that having a long date will increase the chances of a mediocre impression:

It's easy to be entertaining, funny and/or interesting for 60 minutes. It's very hard to have a great experience for 3 hours. And the more time you spend together the higher are the chances that it will all fizzle out and you'll leave her with mediocre impression.

This whole thing seems very wishy washy and not very useful to the majority of men in this sub.

[–]1empatheticapathetic 4 points5 points  (0 children)

By 'the length of the date doesn't matter' he simply means 'there is no maximum or minimum time' which is obvious. But as a completely separate point he says that a longer date has a bigger likelihood of going stale.

The peak and spike points are also separate. If you had to make a connection then his point would be 'try and make a peak via a spike if no such peak has already occurred'.

[–]tddaygame[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your insightful comment but I don't see contradictions in the things you're quoting.

Putting a spike anywhere is essentially equal to providing a "peak level of stimulus". There are the same thing.

Length of the date shouldn't matter for her memories as long as you don't let the excitement fizzle out. But for most people it is hard to keep up the great vibe for prolonged period.

I do not mean "longer date = worse memories" but "longer date = make sure you are able to keep the date fun for that long".

It's like saying "sugar makes you fat". It doesn't but it's much harder to conquer cravings that come after high carb meals (insulin spike and everything).

Also - I left out the usual caveat that I live in Europe. I know the US dating scene is much different but here majority of lays happen on dates number 2 or 3.