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Red Pill ExampleJake and the Woman Who Broke Him (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by brinkleybuzz

I have a group of friends that I’ve known since we were college freshman. We try to get together at least a few times every year and each time we do we have a great time catching up on each other’s lives and reminiscing about the past. Our get togethers are bittersweet though because our dear friend Jake, who died several years ago, can’t be with us.

Jake is the guy who would have been voted most likely to succeed from our group. He was competitive, outgoing, good looking, athletic, a natural leader and stellar student and the ladies loved him. Jake was our de facto leader. We all looked up to him because he was the guy who made things happen in our group.

After my second year in college I took a break for a semester to work and save money, I came back the next spring and discovered that Jake had a new girlfriend, a cute, petite brunette named Dawn. I knew Jake was pretty serious about this relationship because it was the first time I had ever seen him completely focused on just one girl. Dawn treated Jake well and he seemed happy, so we supported our brother and wished him well in his relationship. Jake and Dawn were together constantly and Jake would often tell us how he thought that Dawn might be “the one”.

We got to senior year and while they were still together, we could tell things weren’t the same between Jake and his girl. They were arguing more and from time to time we would hear rumors about how Dawn was cheating on Jake. The rumors got to the point that a few of the guys in our group thought about mentioning them to Jake, but we knew that would be complicated because Jake was a proud guy. We figured he wouldn’t react well and he would definitely deny that his girl would ever betray him.

As we headed to our last semester, Jake surprised us with some news: he had been accepted into an Ivy League law school and would propose to Dawn so they could get married and be together while he was in law school. My heart sank when I heard this because I knew, deep down, that Jake was making a big mistake.

Our group got together and made a fateful decision that would forever change our lives. We made a plan to intervene and warn Jake about what he was getting into. I knew one of the guys who was rumored to be banging Dawn, so I would talk to him to find out if it was true. Dave, the guy in our group who knew Dawn the best, would talk to her. After Dave and I were done, we would all have a talk with our brother Jake.

The plan was a disaster. The guy I talked to got defensive and threatened me, but he never denied banging Dawn. Dave talked to Dawn. She got hostile, denied everything and vowed to get back at us for coming between Jake and her. And Jake was livid. We set up the meeting with him in my apartment. I still remember his expression as he stormed into my place; the look of anger and anguish on his face at that moment haunts me to this day. There was a lot of shouting in the meeting and Jake and I came to blows after he accused me of lying about his girl. He walked out, slammed the door and that was the last time I ever saw my dear friend.

After all of this went down, the roommate of the guy I confronted about his affair with Dawn sought me out because he heard what happened and wanted to set the record straight. He confirmed that Dawn had been banging his roommate for almost a year and was likely fucking other guys too.

Fast forward to a few years after our college graduation and our greatest fears were realized. I was able to keep tabs on Jake through mutual friends and found out that Jake and Dawn got married and had a daughter while he was in law school. By the time Jake graduated, he and Dawn were separated and within one year of Jake’s graduation, they were divorced. Dawn apparently had cheated with a co-worker and also with one of Jake’s law school classmates. Dawn got custody, moved halfway across the country and prevented Jake from seeing his beloved baby girl.

By this time, Jake was a broken man. He spiraled into a deep depression, lost his job, gained a bunch of weight and stopped taking care of himself. Several years ago he died of a massive heart attack while living alone in a ratty room on the south side of Chicago.

The point of this story is not to provide another example of AWALT. There are plenty of those on this sub. I wanted to explore the question of how a guy like Jake could fall so hard because of a woman.

Jake wasn’t a BetaBux, he was an Alpha. Other guys wanted to be him and women definitely wanted to fuck him. He wasn’t weak, nor was he naïve. Jake was a player and he knew the game.

Jake’s problem was his pride. Jake couldn’t allow himself to accept that a petite woman half his size could play and beat him at a game that he thought he had mastered. His ego wouldn’t allow him to concede defeat so he could cut his losses and move on. Pride goeth before a fall. Unlike Jake, none of us should ever believe that we are immune to AWALT.

Another painful lesson learned from this is no matter how hard you try, some guys just don’t get it and won’t hear you when you try to help them. I had to lose a good friend to learn this lesson.


[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 165 points166 points  (3 children)

The lesson to take from Jake is that when your friends are telling you that your girlfriend is a slut and a half, it's not because they're jealous of your happiness.

A lot of otherwise good guys get bogged down by pride. "I know my woman. I know our relationship. I know more about this than any of you because I'm right here, on the inside of this relationship. What the fuck do you guys know about my girl? She'd never be a slutty ho!"

Guys forget that when you're close to something, it's impossible to see it objectively. And they forget how easy it is to fool someone. They forget how easily women lie and how easy it would be to be tricked. They think that this time, they've found something different, and if anything were actually wrong, they'd know it.

When your friends, who have nothing at all to gain, tell you that your girlfriend is shitty, listen to your friends. They don't stand to gain anything by pissing you off and saying crap about your girl. They're saying it because they care, not because they're jealous or stupid. Don't be an asshole who gets pissed off at your friends for telling you something you damn well should have noticed yourself. That's what friends are for. Covering your back when you can't see it.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns 29 points30 points  (0 children)

It's also the SUNK COST FALLACY as well. You've put so much time, money, effort, and energy into the relationship, that when it starts to go bad, you think "OK, it's still good, it's still good... We'll just ride this rough patch out. Things will get better. Things HAVE to get better..."

I was briefly engaged 10 years ago, to a woman who was ridiculously unfaithful. And very, very flagrant about it too. Like, wouldn't even bother coming home several nights a week. "Oh honey, you know how it is, I just got caught up at the studio..." etc (she was a recording artist). Meanwhile, of course, she was out having sex with every wannabe rapper / DJ / music producer in NYC. I knew it, all of my friends knew it.

At one point one of my best friends even pulled me aside and gave it to me straight: he was like "Look man, we all love you, we're all VERY concerned, we think this chick is just using you for a greencard (she was Russian, and needed American citizenship), she doesn't love you, hell she doesn't even like you, it's obvious she's cheating on you, sooooo... Yeah. That's it. Just wanted to get that off my chest." I thanked the guy for his concern but told him (I'm totally laughing about all this now, thinking about it in retrospect--oh Blue Pill, such nostalgia) something like "Oh, you know, she's just having a tough time right now, going through a phase, it'll get better, it'll get better..." (Every excuse for her that could be made, I made it. So much denial.)

It wasn't pride (on my part), it was just the notion that, after having orbited the girl for a year, and finally "gotten" her, after having invested SO MUCH into her, into the relationship (trying to get it in the first place, and then trying to make it work), I just couldn't walk away, I felt like I'd be "losing" too much. Like being on a bad run at the Poker table, you think "OK, I'll just ride this out, my luck has to turn eventually, then I'll get my money back and then some."

Of course one day a few months later something in me just snapped: I broke up with her, and she moved out the next day. Best part: I found out through mutual friends she married one of her rapper dudes like a month later (so yes, she obviously had the backup plan in place. MANY backup plans, I'm sure).

The key is realizing: once the relationship goes bad, IT NEVER GETS BETTER AFTER THAT. EVER. I work in Hollywood and read a lot of scripts, and let me tell you, you can tell if it's gonna be good before you finish the first page. I've never, NEVER read a script that sucked in the beginning, but then magically got better at the end. If goes bad at any point, drop it: it's time to cut your losses and move on. That's not "losing", that's WINNING.

Great MUST READ article on THE SUNK COST FALLACY over at YOU ARE NOT SO SMART, google for more.

[–][deleted] 131 points132 points  (10 children)

I'm sorry about your friend, man. Too many guys, myself included, are in denial and put their blinders on when any kind of red flags come up about their girlfriend. The hundred yards worth of shit to crawl through after a break up is a million times better than letting it take ahold of you to the point of no return like your friend. Luckily I got that red flag that she "drunkenly made out with a guy" a few months in. I cut all ties. It was tough at first but now I just look back at all the red flags there were but didn't notice at the time. Your best friends are right more often than not. Thanks for your story.

[–]brinkleybuzz[S] 45 points46 points  (1 child)

Your best friends are right more often than not.

So true. I now make it a point to tell my good friends that if they value our friendship they should tell me anything they feel I need to hear and I'll promise to listen to them with an open mind.

[–]badaod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, so true. Bad if you can't listen, worse if you show so much confidence that nobody tells you about the red flags (guilty of that one)

[–]STRANGLED_HOOKER 6 points7 points  (3 children)

did she tell you this herself?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Yes, you think it matters differently than if I found out myself?

[–]STRANGLED_HOOKER 3 points4 points  (1 child)

just curious mate, trying to figure out how often women admit to cheating vs trying to get away with it

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think we all wish we knew the answer to that haha

[–]19yoManChild 61 points62 points  (4 children)

Thank you for sharing this tragedy. On the journey from being beta to becoming an actual red pill man when do you start to feel that changes your ego will start to blow up.

Destroy that ego and hold frame. I would recommend getting deeply into stoicism if you want to avoid the serious problem of pride and arrogance.

That being said pride and arrogance are good problems to have because you can learn to manage them if you are willing.

However if you let them go unchecked they can and will destroy you.

No one is too big to fail gentleman. NO ONE.

[–]brinkleybuzz[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Spot on. What's dangerous about ego is that women have a natural ability to play to and manipulate the male ego. I have no doubt that Jake's girl did this to sink her hooks deeper into him and drive a wedge between him and us.

[–]alexclarkbarry 5 points6 points  (0 children)

someone should have told Dick Fuld and Jimmy Cane that.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

deleted What is this?

[–]epixs 35 points36 points  (2 children)

Damn man I feel for you. Without getting into details my closest friend from undergrad who i considered my bro trashed our friendship because of his girl at the time. He was ruining his grades for this girl and I told him he needed to get his priorities straight+ girl was toxic (she was cheating later I found out). He got defensive and ended canceling his lease to move out. Never talked to him again. He ended getting sent home to his community college since he failed out, girl left him for some other guy the next week

[–]InfiniteAscent 9 points10 points  (0 children)

girl left him for some other guy the next week

Probably the one she was cheating with.

[–]marplaneit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol the same happen to a close friend in med school... Got kicked out, now he started nurse school last year. The girl? The one ? She broke up with him and been in two relationships since that happened 2 years a go.

[–]1walkingthelinux 35 points36 points  (5 children)

Jake's problem is that he was weak enough to be brought down.

However strong he looked, it was all on the outside.

He is actually the type who is most helped by TRP.

[–]ChristianRedpill points points [recovered]

Correct. Mental and physical strength are two completely different things. Plenty of guys are jacked from participating in sports their whole lives, but mentally they are weak. Many of us nerds worked on our minds our whole lives, and are now getting jacked and physically strong later in life. You need to have both or you will get taken for a serious ride by women.

[–]rook785 15 points16 points  (2 children)

It is very rare to find high-caliber athletes that are mentally weak in areas such as determination, work ethic, or even dealing with failure. Those first two are prerequisites, and the latter is something all athletes learn over time... there can be only one team that wins. You should spend some more time with high caliber athletes before you come to such sweeping negative generalizations that, in my mind anyway, come across as rationalizations of resentment and jealousy.

But you're absolutely right about one thing - athletes aren't prepared with how to deal with their rapid decrease in attractiveness to women once they're not in sports anymore. It's kinda funny actually.

[–]I_Need_More_Space_ 5 points6 points  (1 child)

What about all the NFL/NBA fuck up athletes? Pretty weak minded to end up on the news. And we don't even hear half of the incidents. The news gets cleaned up by agents and what have you.

[–]rook785 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hmmm well a lot of them are bad with money because they never learned how to be good with it. But i would say that for the ones that end up on the news for criminal or other illegal activities, that has more to do with the culture / neighborhood they grew up in. And I would also say that they are actually much better off than the other people from that neighborhood that didn't make it in professional sports. I never said that professional athletes have a great moral compass - someone like Aaron Hernandez who grows up as a gang banger will stay a gang banger indefinitely - but they do know how to work hard and how to deal with failure.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Blue pilled alpha male, aka "natural."

[–]gecko408 30 points31 points  (8 children)

Not to knock how you handled the situation but most men will never believe their friends about cunty girls. The power of vagina can be too much for some. Attempting to derail a run away train always results in carnage.

For all the younger guys out there still figuring that shit out--let your boys get hurt. I saw great gains physically financially and mentally because I was hurt years ago. Now I look back on it and laugh. I was just a silly emotional kid. Luckily I had friends who dragged me out and hung out with me when I was a mopey piece of shit. It was a welcomed distraction as I figured my life out. Be there for your buddys when their world comes crashing down. Sometimes the only way to learn is the hardway.

[–]brinkleybuzz[S] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Yeah, I realize that now. The better move long term may have been to not say anything but be there for him when he got hurt. This situation is a really tough call. It's so hard to not to anything when your boy is getting screwed over.

[–]1Jaereth 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I think it's always better to say something. I had to do the same thing for one of my friends once.

He didn't like it at first, but he eventually broke up with the girl. Even if they react badly, the seed of "my best friend said she was cheating on me" has been planted, and they are damn sure going to evaluate their partners behavior through that lens going forward. Probably start picking up on little stuff that seemed innocent before and it snowballs into a full on breakup.

[–]redrogue12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah imagine not having told him anything and then OP living with "fuck I should have said something." In the end OP and his friends did what they thought was right and at least they can live with a clean conscience.

[–]TryDoingSomethingNew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You at least tried to show him the truth and that's far more than many would do. Succeed or fail, I'd rather say I tried sincerely.

[–]pandaholic23 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Luckily I had friends who dragged me out and hung out with me when I was a mopey piece of shit. It was a welcomed distraction as I figured my life out.

Where can I get these kinds of friends. All the ones I have lost respect for me when became a money piece of shit when I got cheated on.

To be honest it's harder for me to make real friends than get laid or get a gf.

[–]gecko408 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think what I have goes past friendship and is in the realm of brotherhood. I've known these guys for 15 plus years. We've been through good times and bad times. I'm pretty lucky. Yes some of them are beta and I make 3x the amount as some of them. But at the very core is a kind of loyalty you would only expect from family.

That being said someone needs to make an social app to meet folks. I know its tough if you're in a new city or your old friends are complete cunts.

My advice would be to join a club or two

[–]_penseroso_ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

MUCH harder. The state of male friendship is in sorry shape. The guys I see around tend to get jealous quickly, be emotionally immature, and quick to blame. Even a conversation with a girl one of these guys likes tend to get their backs up.

[–]Cesare_MA 14 points15 points  (0 children)

In this case I think /u/brinkleybuzz made the right call. The guy was about to make an irreversible decision that would completely fuck his life. As his boys, OP and his friends were obligated to make an effort and that's exactly what they did.

[–]JFK_Shot_1st 24 points25 points  (4 children)

I'm currently observing an oddly similar situation with one of my roommates right now.

I'm a senior at a large state school in the US and I live in a large house with several roommates. One of my roommates clearly puts a ton of effort into being an alpha (not sure if he's a natural alpha or not as I've only known him well for a few months). It was clear as day when we moved in that he and I had a similar viewpoint in a house full of beta guys. Naturally we've become pretty close friends and workout/hang out quite a bit.

Through the first few months of the school year the kid was on a tear, fucking tons of different girls (including several from our beta roommates friend group, which has caused the orbiters to resent him) and was generally happy. Then he meets a new girl somewhere right before winter break. He seems to have casually added a new plate. Some of our roommates knew her and told me in passing that she was a slut, but whatever, that's why he played her right?

Fast-forward until I get back from winter break (2-3 weeks) and he's full on dating this girl, saying I love you, etc. We throw a massive party at our house right before the new semester starts back up and he goes on a beer run and she's straight up twerking on some random kid's dick while he's gone. At first I'm like okay, she's just dancing, but AWALT...

Either way I'm going out for drinks with one of my plates and her hot friend the next weekend and ask if he wants to come with us (tbh I needed a guy to distract the friend). He told me he couldn't because he's waiting for his girl to come over after she got back from dinner with her friends (including one of my beta roommates and his gf, who have apparently bonded with this girl in the short period of time they've known her).

I come back the next morning and he's like sitting up at the kitchen table looking like shit. I was like "damn you look hungover as fuck". He was like "wtf dude she got drunk last night, never came over and woke up next to some other guy". I consoled him and told him to come out again with me and try and find a new girl that night. He declined and sulked to his room. I'd never seen him act this much like a bitch before.

A week later he asks if I think it's a good idea to take a martial arts course. I say "sure, but why?". He tells me he needs to be in control of the situation in case he was there when someone tried to assault his gf. I was like "wtf dude, no one assaulted her, she got drunk and fucked a guy". He was like "no she was assaulted, she couldn't consent". That was when I knew we'd lost another to oneitis. He's getting ready to take her on vacation for spring break later this month, and our friendship hasn't been the same since I told him that. I don't think he's stupid though, she'll do it again and he'll catch her. Just sad to see the fallen alpha happen front of your eyes.

Tldr: alpha friend and roommate falls for a slut, gets cheated on, and can't accept that his special little snowflake would ever cheat on him (even though she confessed to him).

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (1 child)

It is quite clear what he did.

Your flatmate is fairly hot, he read the Game and some PUA books, which worked for pulling, but in the mind he was the same as before.

Ergo he got hooked on first girl that fucked good.

[–]redrogue12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes! He made external changes but he is the same on the inside.

[–]HappyScribe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And we wonder why there is a fake rape culture on campuses? It's because Chad Cuckoid here is willing to believe his girl, when it's obvious she's saving face.

Your roommate deserves everything coming to him.

[–]Returnofthemack3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

im pouring one out for your dead homie lol

[–]textualintercourse 17 points18 points  (1 child)

A true friend stabs you in the front.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 12 points13 points  (2 children)

He had a fatal case of oneitis.

Many men don't realize what's at stake in the game of relationships. Your entire future is at stake.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsadomasochrist 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not fatal. There are lots of literally fatal cases. Serious and debilitating case of it though.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Did you not read the post? Definitely pretty fatal, even if indirectly

[–]Conceited-Monkey 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The brutal part is that if you do an "intervention" the majority of the time your friend just cuts you out and doubles down on his unicorn.

[–]WhorehouseVet 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Jake was treating Dawn as if she has the same sense of honor, loyalty, and integrity as a man. Jake also falsely believed that there is such a thing as "relationship equity", ie the more invested he is into the relationship, the more he will get out of it.

Don't be Jake.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

'Jake also falsely believed that there is such a thing as "relationship equity", ie the more invested he is into the relationship, the more he will get out of it.'

Saved. Cheers.

[–]Jakei34 7 points8 points  (1 child)

This is the one thing all men should read before they Enter a relationship. It's a great reminder of the capabilities of any woman.

[–]InfiniteAscent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the required reading should be "Womens Infidelity" by Michelle Langley.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Sorry about the loss of your friend. The reason an alpha can get taken apart like that is simple. Women will entrap an Alpha then systematically convert him into a beta. This is inline with their evolutionary sexual strategy. They need an Alpha for impregnation and a beta for childcare/financial support. Once they have a child with a man it is natural for them to want children with other men (read The Red Queen for far more detail) in order to diversify their offspring's genetics. They do all of this unconsciously and we men fall for it because we do not love women for who they are, we love them for who we want them to be. We idealize them and place them on a pedestal because if we saw them for what they were we would rarely if ever pair bond with them.

[–]FrgElder points points [recovered]

This is always one of my fears when in an LTR, not that she will cheat. If she does that and I find out it's a very simple and quick solution. But if she were to cheat several times for years without me ever finding out. To be played the fool without even knowing it.

I would hope that my friends would care enough that they'd intervene if they caught wind of something similar. I've seen so many people turn a blind eye because "it's not their business". So many unfaithful relationships that everyone knows about except the person that's getting taken advantage of.

It's not easy doing what you and your friends did, but it's the right thing. Some people will listen to their friends, but sometimes they've lost themselves and don't want to let go of the perfect picture they have of their spouse.

[–]Returnofthemack3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah Ive seen that play out soo much. And the guy is rightfully devastated, not just because she cheated but because he as taken for a foool and everyone knew about it. Nowadays ill blow the lid on that shit proper quick, but i'm not around that so much post college

[–]0kool74 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Another painful lesson learned from this is no matter how hard you try, some guys just don’t get it and won’t hear you when you try to help them. I had to lose a good friend to learn this lesson.

I, quite often, get excoriated for my views on relationships, marriage, and the dynamics between the sexes. It's always funny when some of it is from people who are once, twice, sometimes thrice married and divorced. I usually tell them to take their blue pill magical unicorn fairies and pixie dust life script and go wipe their ass with it.

[–]ArkAngelEV 6 points7 points  (0 children)

pretty shitty de facto leader. Pride and HUBRIS did him in. This shit reads like the hillbilly elegy without the happy ending. You're spot on about the pride, that he couldn't be wrong with his observation, that their was no one better than him showing interest to this girl. Hubris, he got into an Ivy, and not into a flimsy program but law. Back in the 50s, this MAY have been enough to lockdown a wifey type or even reform a party girl.

That's not gonna happen any longer during these times. Can't make a hoe a respectable woman... and the truth is they are ALL hoes ( for the right guy )

Good luck out there

[–]goldnhorde 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I had an experience in my high school senior year.

I would like to say it is great that you and your friends put forth such an effort to try to help your friend.

my story went somewhat differently.

I have always been known as someone who is a bit reactive. as I got older, I still have a tendency to react heavily to certain things. In high school, if you said something about one of my boys ... you had better not turn your back.

the girl I went out with cheated on me and cheated on me pretty regularly. I was fairly popular, played three sports, was at every party. and we broke up ... and little by little the truth started coming out of the corners of reality. that's the problem with the truth when you lie. eventually the truth will come out.

and it was ... so much information and it hurt me in a way that I know is not singular to me, but I am unable to describe. week after week I would end up having another conversation with another friend who knew and "I just didn't know how to tell you. do you have any idea what you would have done to me if I had told you?"

I'd like to think they were wrong, but it is what happened. and in this way she cost me so many relationships. because a lot of these people, I ended up telling them I was unable to remain friends with them. that they could have told me regardless.

so it is good to hear you at least had the conviction and courage to tell your friend. I am sorry he could not hear the truth. I am just as sorry that he let himself get used as he did.

[–]Actanonverba11 6 points7 points  (0 children)

One-itis is like a drug. Anyone, even the most Alpha of Alphas, can fall victim to it. It can blind you and lead you down the path to destruction. Learn well from your friend. If your best guy friends are trying to warn you about your girl, heed their warnings. One-itis is the destroyer of men. There's a reason Pride is considered the deadliest of the seven deadly sins.

[–]askmrcia 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The Last point of your post is the best takeaway. I. Too can get a big head easily and think to myself that I'm hot shit and no girl would ever cheat on me because I know I'm the best she can get.

Of course I no longer think that way, but I have noticed tons of users on this sub so thinks just because they are alpha with good money that it can't happen to them.

Hollywood stars and pro athletes get cheated on all the time. Sorry about your friend,very tragic indeed.

I think the worse part is how the mother took the daughter away and would not even let this man see her before he died. The guy busted his ass through law school (I know that shit ain't easy, ivy League at that) to try and become a good father and look what happened.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 6 points7 points  (4 children)

I wanted to explore the question of how a guy like Jake could fall so hard because of a woman

In some ways it's hardest for the popular charismatic Chads. They can maintain the Disney dream the longest because they are treated so well by women who find them instantly attractive.

Jake couldn’t allow himself to accept that a petite woman half his size could play and beat him at a game that he thought he had mastered

"Winning" (you never really win) the game with women means finding a way to be immune to their shit by being independent, maintaining options, and never giving them much control over you or those you care about. Which makes parenthood virtually impossible.

I once tried to intervene with a guy making a similar mistake to Jake. I approached the conversation delicately about his options in life and about her.... and it went really well. He was so happy that within 3 hours he told the girl about our conversation, and from then on she went on a rampage against me to get me out of his life. Fucking idiot.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

You know why this happened right?

99% of people are zombies and don't reflect on their decisions or life in general. You knew he was weak and you still did it? That's what gets me. What did you think would happen?

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon 7 points8 points  (2 children)

99% of people are zombies and don't reflect on their decisions or life in general. You knew he was weak and you still did it? That's what gets me. What did you think would happen?

I didn't expect much to change. There was a chance. I had to try.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I have noticed people really can't keep their mouth shut.

They're so insecure with themselves and life, they just spout everything to anyone to relieve their anxieties momentarily.

There's no harm in trying to save a close friend even if you know the outcome. At least you can say you tried.

[–]brewmastermonk 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Women named Dawn are evil. My uncle married one and they were divorced within the year.

[–]LordThunderbolt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Any girl with a stripper name is a problem, ex: pearl, dawn, Crystal etc

[–]elverloho 6 points7 points  (8 children)

How does Dawn feel about killing the father of her daughter?

[–]Sklavenmoral 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Oh, I bet she has hamstered her way into a grand justification for how it all went down.

[–]CrayonStur 24 points25 points  (0 children)

She probably doesn't give a fuck about him and if she does, she probably would say its all his fault for being a lazy ass and letting himself go.

Sorry for your loss OP.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Probably terrible because the alimony and child support payments will stop coming in on the regular.

[–]ArthurVonL 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She never gave a fuck anyway. Oh, wait a fuck is the only thing she gave to him, and that fuck costed him his life.

[–]juliusstreicher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She didn't. She killed Jake. Dad's just fine!

One thing about this that sticks out like a sore thumb is how Jake obviously spilled his guts to the whore about the intervention. This shows that he was already too weak. WTF kind of man would tell this to his woman?

[–]Gr0o0vy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

maybe he was even not the father

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Holy crap. What a sad story.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think the main moral of the story is self-reliance. At the end of the day, we only have ourselves to rely upon in this life, especially in terms of being fulfilled. This doesn't mean that we're all doomed to be alone, but it means to have a healthy sense of self and your place in the world, to appreciate other people for the roles they play in our lives, and to get the most out of everyday.

Being vulnerable is a good thing, when we actively choose the time, place and person with whom it occurs. This can really only happen when we ourselves feel full from the lives that we live, through our goals and purpose, and the things we do to enjoy ourselves. If you have that, you have what we refer to as "frame" and all choices of vulnerability should exist within your frame.

Being too "proud" shows a lack of substance in Jake's life to be able to be wrong, make a mistake as a human being, and to collect oneself and continue forward with his mission/life's purpose. He got screwed over by a woman because he didn't have a strong relationship with himself. He reacted to that so poorly because of the same thing.

[–]Herdsengineers 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Perhaps he just couldn't appear weak to the other guys? Or he got sucked in and converted by a predatory woman? Some combination of both?

The biggest thing I've learned is that you have to put respect first. If she's acting disrespectful, next her if you're not married to her. If you're married to her when it starts, withdraw all attention and find something else to do. We're all worth being respected, refuse to interact with anyone in a way that isn't founded in respect.

I'm sorry about your friend.

[–]tanqop 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Amazing post. Because of texts like this I subscribed to this subreddit. Very good content. Thank you.

[–]1Jaereth 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I've seen this before. Dude is so happy he has his whole life sorted and "won" so to say in their mind. The idea of someone coming to them and trying to ruin that starts the sunk cost fallacy going in their mind and they never get past denial. They just roll with it.

The lesson here is, your best friends, like the best bros - The guys you've known for a long time and are your close friends. If they say something, you should listen. I had to tell a guy his girl was a total sloot once myself, and believe me, it's not easy.

However, I don't want to see my best friends unhappy. I love them. Why would I want that. I did it because I had to. Because someone was treating them very badly and was being secretive about it.

When your best buds and lifelong friends give you a warning about something - you should really listen. Take it into close consideration.

[–]harsha_hs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for this story. Wonderful lessons learnt.

[–]Peter_B_Long 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This worries me, because I have a friend and I'm afraid he's going through a road like this.

He met his gf at work, they got together (Don't shit where you eat). He moved in to her parents house after only 2 MONTHS. Only positive I found was that her mom is a traditional mother, where she's a stay at home mom and takes care of the house and cooks. BUT, the father is an alcoholic and drinks every day. Field of red flags. I have yet to meet her, but I already it's going to be a disaster.

[–]I_Need_More_Space_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your bro has some screws loose too. Move in after 2 months with the folks as well? NO WAY.

[–]1favours_of_the_moon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The plan was a disaster. The guy I talked to got defensive and threatened me, but he never denied banging Dawn. Dave talked to Dawn. She got hostile, denied everything and vowed to get back at us for coming between Jake and her. And Jake was livid. We set up the meeting with him in my apartment. I still remember his expression as he stormed into my place; the look of anger and anguish on his face at that moment haunts me to this day. There was a lot of shouting in the meeting and Jake and I came to blows after he accused me of lying about his girl. He walked out, slammed the door and that was the last time I ever saw my dear friend.

That's not on you. You did your part, and he was lucky to have a friend like you.

[–]crimsonpowder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Benjamin Martin: "And perhaps that's his weakness."

Gabriel Martin: "Sir?"

Benjamin Martin: "Pride. Pride's a weakness."

Jean Villeneuve: "Personally I would prefer stupidity."

Benjamin Martin: "Pride will do."

[–]juliusstreicher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This just reminded me of my HS girlfriend in the 70s. We had a mutual friend, and gf and I had never had sex with each other, being Christians. So, mutual friend and I were talking one day, and he said "I hear she puts out!" I knew he was a dork, but, I knew it could also be true. Made no real difference to me, being in HS and in love.

So, I went to her house that night, and she jumped into my arms, hugging and kissing me, telling me that dipshit had told her about our conversation, and telling me that it wasn't true, and hoped that I believed her and she even swore that it wasn't true. As I said, this was in the 70s, so I believed her, and it's possible.

My point is, the difference in her response and that of Jake's whore. My gf was very careful of my feelings, and seemed to want to make sure that I understood the situation. Jakes gf, however, began railing against his friends, vowing revenge. My gf didn't even call our mutual friend an idiot, liar, etc... So, I'm thinking that the taking the battle to the interventionists may be a red flag in these situations. When guilty, accuse!

(Of course, my gf could have fucked our mutual friend just to shut him up, which would explain her anodyne response when we spoke. AWALT!)

[–]dawnlander points points [recovered]

bummer of a conclusion to that story. And poignant because I have a friend I want to help get off the crazy train to destruction.

This guy locked in downward spiral with his LTR that I just distanced from but have had a nagging desire to intervene before he really buries himself fully in shit (he's neck deep as it is). I could write a very long post about his decline over the last 2 years but I'll keep it brief:

High SMV "natural". NEVER was in an LTR, just strung together ONS and very short term FWBs. Girls would always approach him whether they knew him or not in public. He is a man of few words too, so a smirk and few aloof responses would be enough to keep them hanging off him. Hard working, athletic, not emotionally secure but puts on a pretty stoic mask -- has this mixture of codependency, pride, and that sort of classic failure is unacceptable military type view of himself, except he's self-destructive with addictive tendencies towards alcohol or other recreational substances and puts himself in these situations where failure is the only option ("self-sabotaging" I think is the right description).

The girl is classic "crazy in the head, crazy in bed" BPD violent HB8+. Cute and curvy. Capable of the range of feminine masks, cutesy puppy-dog "what's wrong you don't wuv me anymore" looks, to full-on violent toxic vampire (She doesn't contain herself in front of other people so we've all seen the range). Again, this is the first time he's stuck around with a girl for more than a few months after a very prolific and rewarding sexual history with many other attractive women. She found a flirty text on his phone last summer from his co-worker and flipped into a rage one day declaring, "What?! 2 times a day isn't enough for you?!" So I know this is all a big chemical fuck-fest for my friend's addictive brain. He's always been a cad and she's keeping that satiated with wild BPD histrionics and a very high frequency of sex.

I've been shaking my head in private disgust for years now and stopped hanging out with him altogether for quite a long time now. It started when they moved in together within the first few months. Then with the private talks where my buddy, clearly stressed, would admit to being worried about "getting in trouble" for something, like being out late, or whatever other personal decision that should not cause a 6'4" athletic guy to fear a 5'4" waif. I would scoff at him and ask him why he'd give a shit what she thought and he'd always come back with something like, "You don't understand sam, man..." implying her wrath would be to great... I didn't hold back with these conversations, "Well you know you don't have to be with her, right?" To which I'd get a non-responsive look away. I've been on a powerful upward spiral in the last 5 years though and I was in the middle of enforcing the "You are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with" and smashing through "No More Mr. Nice Guy" habits like feeling like I should keep friends around "just because you're friends"... As soon as I realized he wanted to be in the shitpile he was in, I stopped spending any time with him just like other friends living repetitive patterns of their own design.

So a complete glutton for punishment. They got a cat together, which I thought was stupid. Then a dog, which really bothered me (animal neglect or abuse bothers the fuck out of me, since they are basically captive and have no choice in the matter). And finally it reached a peak about a month ago when I found out through the grapevine that magically this girl has gotten knocked up by my friend, despite years of birth control regimen. I was really bothered by the realization that those two fucking idiots would bring another human life into the picture when they hadn't even taken care of their own shit.

I had thought in the past that if I wasn't going to be a close friend to this guy anyways, then why wouldn't I just give him a harsh "here's the ugly truth" intervention? If he was pissed, I would at least get it off my conscience that I just let them run this pattern and potentially fuck up another human life without saying my peace. At best, maybe it would start the momentum for him to get out (over the past year or so, he's texted me asking me if he could crash on my couch, I've always said yes, hoping that he was getting his dignity back and wouldn't actually lay down for those violent episodes -- She's hands on violent too, in case I didn't mention that).

So I brought up the pregnancy thing with a couple of other mutual friends last week and they already knew about it. They said that the girl was wasted and drunkenly told them how she just had a miscarriage and, "you know what? that made me just realize I do want a child".... shudder... that disturbs the fuck out of me.

So this guy has casually reached out in the last few weeks too, I have been busy but decided to try and get in touch with him and see what conversation comes out of it. I'd like to see what he brings up and have something in mind to just tell him that I think its incredibly fucking stupid and a guaranteed way to ruin the rest of your life and ruin the life of a child if he doesn't just get out of the addictive lifestyle he's in, get the dog and cat; we have a big circle of people that can give him a place to stay.

I know ultimately that girl will pitch a fit and try to get with him, but if he keeps his dignity and stay no-contact, or gets out of state if possible, she'll just go find another dude and have that kid and fuck it up anyways...I can't do anything about this but it would be nice not to see my friend go burning down in the plane he's currently in.

Thanks for anyone reading and any advice from people who think saying something might be worth it.

When I stopped hanging out with him years ago, I was completely comfortable with him getting himself into a fucked up situation because that's his choice and you have to fuck up before you learn. Its been the recent mention of her trying to get pregnant and him getting a miraculous "second chance for escape" with her having a miscarriage. I'd love to see him get out.

[–]1nonthaki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its acceptable if even if a person doesnt have a job or financial security, if he ensures that he doesnt drug himself out, or waste himself drunk, or ruin his health by smoking etc . Not doing those 3 things or atleast not over-doing or exploiting i.e. limiting those 3 things, is the minimum necessary BASE foundation needed to have a steady life in the long run(when you get a job) and minimum things that should be avoided for society to consider a persons life as Okay, and a woman to consider him that he is not a drug addicted loser.

[–]Anon0911 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jake could be anyone of us aspiring to be something better

I had a similar event happen to me. My best friend tried to intervene and it cost me two years of our friendship. Fortunately my relationship didn't work, ex got pregnant with the next dude's baby , and I came back with my tail between my legs and apologized for being so shortsighted and immature. It was his birthday and his family was having a party for him when I did it. I don't even know why I chose that time to apologize. It was a new year and I wasn't expecting anything. His exact words:

"It's cool man ... "

And things were basically back how they were before. We did talk about it but never with such harsh words. He actually died 3 years later and I think about the lost two years everyday of my life.

If a bro tells you he thinks something is up, and he's been solid for a few years, you should listen and ignore your pride. It can happen to anyone.

[–]makeshift98 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's definitely hard watching a friend fuck his life up when you know you could save him if only he would listen. The sad truth is that the red pill is is like a lifesaver: all you can do is throw it when they're drowning, and hope they grab it before drowning.

[–]Mrbasie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She is a hoe, she agrees to f*ck.. Remember she prolly was dating before you came along. She will fuck someone else who she deems better than you.. You were the better man then, now she dont see that.. That should slap your ego, find someone who will see the better side of you again. (Happiness)

[–]420KUSHBUSH 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These are the only situations where I experience empathy and sympathy for the poor guy. So glad I found this sub so I can learn.

[–]1SeemedGood 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wanted to explore the question of how a guy like Jake could fall so hard because of a woman.

Jake wasn’t a BetaBux, he was an Alpha. Other guys wanted to be him and women definitely wanted to fuck him. He wasn’t weak, nor was he naïve. Jake was a player and he knew the game.

Jake’s problem was his pride.

  1. Jake was neither an Alpha nor a Beta. Alpha and Beta are just behavioral archetypes. No man is one or the other, all men are both. And we are supposed to be both. The point to RP is not to collapse yourself into one archetype. Rather, it is to become conscious of the archetypes and their effect on women's innate dichotomous attraction cues and then use them to your advantage in your interactions with women.

  2. Our ability to see women's souls, actually love them, and to pair-bond with them spiritually as well as physically is not something of which we should be ashamed nor is it something that we should eschew. This ability is central to who we are and grants us significant power to shape humanity - power that is equivalent to women's power to (literally and metaphysically) weave the species via the bearing of children. That most women are less able to actually love, unconscious of our ability to love them, and unaware of the significance of extending that love means that we must discriminate very carefully when choosing the women with whom we share ourselves in the same way that women should discriminate very carefully when choosing with whom to share their sexual energy. RP philosophy is not an argument for abandoning our ability to actually love, it simply a tool which reminds us that a vanishingly few women are conscious enough to appreciate our love and sub-ordinate their innate and sub-conscious programming so that they can learn how to actually love us and pair-bond with us spiritually as well as physically. Ideally we use the RP tool to expand our consciousness and live a more satisfying life by recognizing that most women are not yet ready to pair-bond and reserving your actual love for the the very few that are if you desire to pair-bond.

  3. Jake's problem was not excessive pride in his gamesmanship, it was that he only understood half of the "game" - the physical half. He chose to extend his love to Dawn unconsciously and his sub-conscious followed it's innate programming ignoring an evaluation of Dawn's higher level attributes like her level of consciousness and thus her potential and willingness to learn how to actually love. RP philosophy doesn't speak to the spiritual dynamic of intersexual relationships, that is not its purpose. Use it to raise your consciousness and increase your understanding of our sub-conscious and innate behavior patterns but always remember that we can operate with conscious will in alignment with our spiritual selves, and RP doesn't really cover those dynamics.

[–]LegendaryAdjacent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing this. A really tragic story, but one that highlights why the red pill is so important in our current society.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"A woman's greatest strength is her facade of weakness. A man's greatest weakness is his facade of strength."

(Think that one's from THE MYTH OF MALE POWER, highly recommended.)

[–]Luckyluke23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm sorry for your loss and your sad story.

[–]throwabonemyway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is the too long to read version of this?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The shame for Jake was that society got to him. Society fucks with people. Your internal frame has to be stronger than society.

Mistakes happen. He could have accepted that shit and went into hyper-awareness and vowed never to make the same mistake again. The significance he placed on one woman' for his life, not comprehending the complexity of life and the myriad of external factors was his downfall.

People make mistakes when they don't understand how the world works. The world is tough, and even contemplating it beyond our current biological conscience gets us a little scared.

There are many Jakes out there today going through the same shit.

[–]smokecheck1976 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Somebody should have fucked her on camera and then gave him the evidence to stop him.

[–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gave him the video with a luxury rope attached

[–]1nonthaki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women work on a completely different spectrum ... in an imagined world where ONLY she, all other women near her(competition) and only one guy(the most Alpha-est guy she knows in her social circle) exist . Even the white knights(her supporters and feeders), manginas, ugly men, low smv and beta men dont exist or dont have much importance in this imagined world in her head, Except for maybe they may appear in this world as enablers when she needs them .

How often have you heard a group of women talk about an ordinary guy other than to gossip, make fun of, discuss his sad state for a bit of over-emotional drama ? The only time he is mentioned in that circle is when he has a temporary fleeting success, and after its charm is over, they dont .

Unlike women, men can be seen discussing about all types of women .

Also, to OP, Bros before Hoes, no matter how much gay people say it sounds like, so what you did (informing Jake about Dawn's character) was right, so dont self-blame .

And OP, sorry you have been through this .

Speaking of which, do you know what the main difference between men and women is ?

Women go into relationships only with Alpha men, even after knowing he has many other options(girls), but believing he will stick with her only or that she can change his loyalty to her .

Men go into relationships with either women (high smv & low smv), even though they dont realize her looks give her many options to branch-swing, but they believe that she has fallen completely in love with him, and wont ever cheat because of his assumed idea of love she has for him .

The difference being, women enter into relationships in which the Alpha guy may not be much into her at all and he might be into her just for sex, and she probably knows that too . Women actually lose less when you analyze it in a logical way, cause they should have known there is a chance that he will reject her after some time, and its not his fault completely, because he never said he wanted a relationship. Women should thus be less hurt, but owing to their egocentricity, they like drama, and make it into an emotional affair whereby she thinks she has lost everything and her pain is the only thing that matters in the world; i.e. she blows up the whole being hurt issue, when she had a chance to hedge or risk-buff the relationship i.e Only get serious slowly by slowly in the relationship. Also, most women can easily FIND relationships with other/newer guys if they want to, very quickly. Even if Alpha men dont devote much of their energy towards her and the relationship , Beta guys are there for that job. Also, Society is there to act as a support to her always, saying things like "You go girl", "Forget that guy", "Enjoy your life(even slut around) at the present, thats whats most important" etc . .. Owing to a lot of such factors, Most women bounce back atleast within a year after breakup.

Men enter mostly into relationships (i.e. when relationship is mutually agreed upon by both partners. I dont mean a one-sided relationship or crush or stalker or follower thing) initially believing/knowing for sure, that the girl is somewhat in love with him or atleast into him, and believing that she will stick around/be loyal because of that initial big love. Men cant hedge or insure against being dumped, because most of the time they have no idea that the relationship is going down south, even though the signs might are visible, i.e. they dont see it even though others can see And thus their loss is greater. And average men cant get into Atleast SATISFYING relationships quickly with new women, because all women they meet are always desperately looking forward to snagging a Chad and not an average guy. So, women expend less on an average guy even if they date him or are presently in a declared "relationship" with him, thus leaving him unsatisfied. Even Alpha guys have some difficulty in rebounding and finding a new relationship compared to even average women. Men also dont have much of a social blanket to support them during break-ups. Owing to a lot of such factors, most men may never ever bounce back from the break-up or might take years for that.

Ofcourse, lots of men cheat too, but thats a different story . And the funny thing is, if the guy breaks up with the girl OUT of BETTER PROSPECTS & not because the girl is a bitch (i.e. the blame is entirely on his side and she was a good girl), then the girl might be unhappy for a month, but then she will start feeling better as life moves on, and by the end of the year, she will have completely moved on, and might be in a relationship with a new guy. But the guy who broke up with her, he might feel happy in the beginning. Slowly, a month after that, he starts to get depressed that he lost a good girl, and the SLUT, for whom he broke up with her during the relationship has dumped him. And then he starts thinking about the ex-girl for a year and so on, may never recover .

[–]tubarao312 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Out of curiosity, how did he die?

[–]Gambarim -3 points-2 points  (6 children)

Why did she marry him at this point?

How can you cheat and still be wanting to marry someone?

It's a bit unrealistic to me. That's some high level madness.

[–]clickclackasdf 13 points14 points  (1 child)

You must be new here. Read the sidebar, and for a detailed answer to your question in particular, read The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar.

[–]Gambarim 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am actually not new, but sometimes some connections are still hard to do. I do understand your point. I can explain why she did that now.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 6 points7 points  (2 children)

How can you cheat and still be wanting to marry someone?

She wanted to eat her cake and fuck another one too. Do you think she would have divorced him if should keep fucking other men without consequences? Of course not. The only reason women make a move like that is when one of the men involved forces her hand.

[–]Corruptdead 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is why there's zero tolerance for bullshit in a relationship. If she cheats and you forgive her you're teaching her to do it again.

[–]brinkleybuzz[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Seriously?! Google the term 'cuckoldry' and report back.