Field ReportDemand Respect - It Pays (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Interesting incident last week at a business luncheon. I'd been invited by a business associate to join him and a few of his friends for lunch, along with with a few people we work with and know in common. Great banter over food and drinks, but it lasted longer than I expected it to. I had arranged to meet a date at the restaurant bar at a time when I thought the lunch would already be over. She shows up as we're wrapping up. These guys are mostly 2-3 decades older than me and get a kick out of the fact that I called off my wedding and am now openly dating women non exclusively.

When I meet her at the bar she notices the table of men looking at us, so I fill her in that I just had lunch with these guys and we walk over to make the introduction. One of the friends of my business associate offers one last round of drinks, so we sit down to indulge. My date gets nestled in the back of the booth with me on the outside and this guy on the inside, her in between us. Immediately his good nature changes and to my astonishment, he is trying to AMOG me to impress my date. He begins by telling a pointless old man story that dragged on. At one point I inject a little levity but he shushes me. Yes, he literally shushes a grown man. You could've cut the tension with a knife. Not knowing the depth of his relationship with my associate (who didn't hear the interchange, caught in his own side conversation), I let my anger be known with a strong stare but sidestepped confrontation for the moment (aside from saying, "excuse me?"). His story continues to drag on and gets to a point where he is talking about a relative's funeral. My date makes a polite, sad comment, and he takes this as his cue to rub her back sensually, as if in consolation, then whispers something in her ear. She's clearly quite uncomfortable (almost jumping out of her skin as he ran his fingers over her back, actually) so I stand up, grab our coats and angrily tell the group we are headed to the bar. They're all a little shocked at the severity of my reaction since they weren't paying much attention to the exchange.

At the bar I learned what this guy's cringeworthy comment was - "It's taking everything in my power not to kiss you right now." He was intoxicated but this was still clearly unacceptable behavior. Especially to a woman you just met, who is boxed in the back of a restaurant booth, on a date with another man from your extended social circle. My head was spinning that this shit was even possible. And from a supposedly suave and successful older man. . .

As the group exited the restaurant, one by one they come up to say goodbye to me and tell me how much they enjoyed our conversation at lunch. The guy in question (now noticeably embarrassed) made a half ass waving gesture while he said bye, but I called him over to the bar. Intensely, obviously fighting repressed rage, I told him how weird he had made things back there. He tried to back out by saying that's just how he is and "what are you gonna do?" I told him he could apologize. At this point, he relented and said he was sorry for how he acted. Then I demanded he apologize to my date. ASTOUNDINGLY, as he turned to apologize to her, he raised his hand as if he was about to put it on her shoulder, but I stopped him in his tracks, "no more touching. . . just the apology." He apologized, hung his head in shame and shuffled out the door.

My plate gushed over the way I turned the tables on this guy, then texted several of her friends about what a man I am. On the ride home I called my business associate (who organized the luncheon) to let him know the disrespect I endured from his friend. He insisted on coming to my office on Monday to make it right.

When my plate came over after our stint at the bar, naturally we had a passionate fuck. I wouldn't let her stay over though, because I had to be up in the morning. She pouted about this but then covered the bill when we went out for late night dinner before she went home. She texted me a lot in the coming days and surprised me with a new outfit she bought me.

Come Monday morning, my business associate lets me know that he has excluded this other guy from their golf group and left him a few voicemails. He thanked me a number of times for reaching out, saying he appreciates the heads up so this guy doesn't reflect badly on him in the future. He told me next time not to bite my tongue for his sake, even if the person offending me is his brother or his client (this guy was neither). ALSO, he reached out to a few women who have played alongside this guy in an annual golf tournament to find out if he was the reason they haven't come the last few years - turns out he was, by being a little too handsy and too forward with them. They just stopped coming, never said anything. We discussed a little business at the end of my friend's visit, with him offering more favorable terms than one would ordinarily expect, as a gesture of good will.

Moral of the story? Don't put up with people's petty shit. It betrays your SMV. The people who matter in your life will respect you more and reward you for having a backbone. Even more important: don't be the guy I described.

tl; dr; Friend of a business associate disrespects me, then hits on my date. I force his apology. My friend goes out of his way to make it up to me. My date is more amorous then ever.

[–]rigbed 93 points94 points  (3 children)

The best method of establishing attraction Is by displaying your relation with other males. Too many relationships are tainted or ruined when the woman sees her man fail shit tests from guys.

[–]1Original_Dankster 15 points16 points  (0 children)

For real. Having power over other men in a subculture - whether formal (like a military commander, corporate manager, team captain or coach) or informal (primary in a clique, hub in the circle of friends, etc) - is an aphrodesiac.

Seen it firsthand myself. The only thing that stops me from exploiting this right now is that I can't afford to shit where I eat.

[–]Red_Faust 92 points93 points  (20 children)

First, thanks for this. I really liked your post, it resonated a lot with me.

Due to the nature of my relationship, we tend to go out a lot together and I find a lot of guys that try to disrespect me and directly go pick up my girl. It's the nature of the beast it seems.

I'd like to learn more techniques to navigate this social landscape. So far I can see: keep lifting (of course), leave subtly when guys become obnoxious (which we do 99% of the time). I don't like to fight, but just one time it happened, and I'm not proud at all of it (guys, don't ever get into a fight, never worth it).

Is there any reading you guys can recommend to learn more about handling these situations?

[–] points points

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[–]Recon_by_Fire 107 points108 points  (0 children)

Be 6'9", bring Xena. Got it.

[–]Shakydrummer 11 points12 points  (0 children)

That's honestly the way I prefer to do things to. An ex was being hit on once by this guy doing some pretty crappy advances, and all I needed to do was sarcastically walk up and interject myself into the conversation with a 'Hey what's going on' and just put an arm around her waist and started the dude straight in the eyes. No violent intent or anything, just being relaxed and confident. The guy backed down pretty quickly lol.

[–]Red_Faust 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thanks redsorceror, awesome reply.

Will add your points to my arsenal. I'll see how it works out and if I find out something worthwhile I'll get back to you.

[–]purplecabbage 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great comment. I would say what you described boils down to 'gentleman' behavior and tact, a class act, to be sure.

[–]LordThunderbolt -1 points0 points  (1 child)

If your girl doesnt know better to tell the guy to fuck off you got some big problems dude. If she doesnt know to do that, you're getting cucked.

[–]DntPnicIGotThis 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Reading, no. But take up activities that promote that type of self confidence and just in general willingness not to have to put up with other males shit. Self defense classes, public speaking/debate classes if you can find them, etc. I've done both above but before I got into those things I admit to being on the timid side. Nowadays especially, after hitting 30, I do not tolerate anyone's shit no matter what their status is and will let them know from the go if need be.

[–]ChadThundercockII -5 points-4 points  (11 children)

I don't like to fight, but just one time it happened, and I'm not proud at all of it (guys, don't ever get into a fight, never worth it).

No, fight when you have to. Yeah, the law makers made it hard for you but who the hell cares. It is primal. If you stop fighting, then stop fucking.

[–]Red_Faust 18 points19 points  (10 children)

No, not really. There are nuances.

  • show that you are not timid, weakling, easily frightened? yes
  • be ready to fight in actual self-defense? yes
  • look (and be) strong? know a couple (or a lot) martial arts movements that you can throw to save your life? sure, why not?

But in the end, actual fighting is a very, very bad idea. Not only can you get badly hurt or even killed, easily. And face legal trouble. Or being denied access to specific venues or social circles.

And even if you win, you actually accomplish nothing at all. Next weekend another man could disrespect you as easily by hitting on your woman (many, many will do).

What are you going to do? Fistfight them all? Unless you're a professional martial artist or boxer, and/or you enjoy beating people up, that's a very very bad idea.

[–]theunconquored 6 points7 points  (9 children)

Like I've always said...never start a fight. But make sure that everyone knows that you have the ability to end it, should someone insist on instigating.

Lift, boys. Lift. Never stop getting stronger.

[–]DntPnicIGotThis 6 points7 points  (8 children)

Never start it but have the capability to finish it. Even if you can't out right win but you can make so that the other guy won't walk away without taking a good beating himself, you will be able to deter most physical confrontation.

However, I think Socrates once said, "Never write a check your ass can't cash." So keep lifting.

[–]theunconquored 5 points6 points  (7 children)


I had a guy come up to me in a bar a few months ago, completely unprovoked, shove me in the chest and tell me he was going to fight me later.

I'm 6'4, 250 pounds and quite strong...and I look it. This guy wasn't over 5'6 170. I very publicly tapped him on the head like a little kid, laughed, and said "oh, that's cute." Got a good laugh from everyone around and diffused it before it ever started.

And that's good for him...because that would have hurt. Poor little guy wouldn't have had long enough arms to land a punch.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

We're the same size - I also get these outrageous little guys coming at me sometimes. I was at a resort last summer and some 125 pound hothead decides to start taking swings at me. I never lost my composure and he was removed. A bigger man would've caught a fist.

[–]theunconquored 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I was kind of surprised. I've never had someone try to pick a fight with me, probably because of my size.

Also, I generally choose to socialize with people and in establishments where this kind of behavior isn't common, so it was an unexpected incident for me.

Afterwards, I had a great conversation with a bunch of his buddies who told me that I could have just put my hand on his forehead and let him swing away. Even they thought he was a moron, but if I had gotten hot headed about it, I could have ended up on the wrong end of a big group of guys defending their buddy.

Cooler heads prevail. Being strong enough to look like you could kill someone means you don't often need to engage. Humor and levity do the job.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

Being big and strong is a major advantage. I often hesitate to give other people advice on diffusing conflict because my situation is so different.

[–]theunconquored 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's definitely not the same if you don't have an almost guaranteed size and strength advantage.

[–]JizzWall 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I'm not quite your size but at 6'2 235lbs and fit. I usually have the upper hand strength/size wise. I've had the same happen as well. I'm not quite as nice as you i guess cause i put them on the ground hard but without throwing any punches. They've always been the one to get hauled out of the bar, not me, so i must be doing something right.

[–]theunconquored 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Oh, the niceness is only a diffusion tactic. I was in a tap house owned by a friend in a smallish town where I own a business and am known by many. I'm better off staying as the jolly giant unless I'm forced to defend myself.

[–]JizzWall 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Excellent point! Dont shit were ya eat!

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (1 child)

I have been through a similar thing lately, by my best friend being that douche. She (the girl) was not a stable plate but she could have been, if this had not happened. I thought that, by not saying anything at that moment, I covered his shit; because otherwise I would have shamed myself as much as him, because his presence was my reflection in this social circle, at this time. I did not even talk about it with him, but he knows what he had done and claims that he was being friendly. I erased him from my life, not calling him or meeting him with my social circle anymore. However, I know that I did a mistake, I acted weak. The damage is done already. I should have responded just like you did. Great lesson here, well done on your approach.

[–]sumethreuaweiei 22 points23 points  (19 children)

Handling disrespect is a very complicated topic imo. If it comes off wrongly you can piss people off for good. This is especially bad if you see them consistently.

Friends will also disrespect you easily, but it comes with the cover of banter and joking around so you can't really do much about it. The worst part is though, is when they treat you like that in front of other people. The defense is always, "I was just kidding dude can't take a joke? Chill"

[–]titsmegeee 25 points26 points  (2 children)

This is the absolute worst. Particularly when you end up in a weird underhanded social battle with a person in your extended circle (not necessarily a friend) where everything is passive aggressive gamesmanship.

In the end noone wins as it is really people just behaving negatively which everyone picks up on, things can grow to the point of open conflict where there it ends in an open argument or physical.

This is a topic that rarely gets discussed here as noone really has the answers like they do with dealing with the opposite sex. All these situations are different and people can not like you for all sorts of reasons.

Would be really interested to hear peoples takes on dealing with this stuff, it has a direct implication on how other people view you.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

These dynamics are so critical to group socialization and maintaining SMV I'm surprised there's as little discussion here as there is.

[–]nombre1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Same here. All the focus is on relationships with women, and non with other men. If you expect to advance in your career, or to outclass an AMOGer, you'll need to know how to deal with the other half of the world.

[–]MaxManus 14 points15 points  (0 children)

What I found works most of the time, is to just ask them to repeat themself. If it is a direct verbal offense, that is. A lot of people make snarky, hushed comments. If you just say:" What was that you just said to me? I couldn't really hear you." in a still friendly, but clear and stable voice, it most of the time works and they feel emberassed about it.

[–]TangoZulu 10 points11 points  (14 children)

You need to get better at "verbal sparring". Since society has removed physical fighting as a legal option for establishing group hierarchy and settling disputes, you need to train yourself in using words as your weapons.

When you think about it, this is why guys engage in banter within their social group. It is a modern way of establishing dominance within the pack. Having a quick wit and and the better comeback is social martial arts. And you need to maintain frame while doing it. If you're getting upset, hurt or angry then you have already lost. You need a thicker skin.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

Anger is part of verbal sparring. Intense anger is quite an effective method, even though I didn't resort to it here.

[–]TangoZulu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Anger (especially intense anger) is a loss of frame. In regards to banter within a social group, getting angry is escalating the banter beyond "sparring" and will reflect poorly on you, whether or not you feel it justified. It reveals a crack in your armor and proves a weakness.

[–]sumethreuaweiei points points [recovered]

I also want to point out to you specifically that you may have hurt yourself in the long run because people don't like to feel negative emotions. The group may not be on your side so I'd be cautious, especially because the guys knew eachother before you did, so you're in their territory. The only reason it worked out is because the guy's shame came out and destroyed his frame, so you got lucky.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

There is always risk in standing up for yourself. I wouldn't have given a fuck if they did side with him, actually. But as it turns out I've now done a big favor for my friend by exposing a man who was sabotaging him without him knowing. When you spot cringeworthy behavior, you can generally call it out with the repercussions going to the person who originated said behavior. That's not luck, it is probabilistic.

[–]sumethreuaweiei points points [recovered]

Like I said, your frame of "cringe" overtook his frame of "harmless flirting." Your reality superseded his. If his frame was stronger he would have felt absolutely no shame. Shame was the player here. The guy had personal issues.

If it was a guy who was completely unapologetic about his actions, this would've turned out different.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

He was right to show shame. Consequences could've been yet more severe. If he didn't stop when I told him not to touch her at the bar, for instance, maybe a punch in the face and a sexual assault charge. Prison is loaded with unapologetic guys.

[–]sumethreuaweiei points points [recovered]

You would've hit him or gone out of your way to press charges?

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

Absolutely. You're welcome for this dose of the Red Pill.

[–]sumethreuaweiei points points [recovered]

The dose of trading an assault charge for a sexual assault charge?

[–] points points

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

what did you say to call him out?

[–]nsquared5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a good winging strategy tbh.

[–][deleted] 69 points70 points  (10 children)

You didn't demand respect, you commanded respect. There's a big difference.

It's principally the same as BB/AF. Betas demand, Alphas command.

Thanks for sharing and good job.

[–]John_McFly 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Betas demand, Alphas command.

Compare vs street cred where every thug repeatedly demands respect and is willing to start a fight or start shooting if he feels slighted over things even as minor as a spilled drink or scuffed shoe. A real badass wouldn't need to say a single word about respect.

[–]MrAnderzon 4 points5 points  (8 children)

What the difference between commanding and demanding respect

[–]__ZEAL__ 16 points17 points  (6 children)

Demanding is the equivalent of asking for respect, telling someone they have to give it to you. It's weak. If you have to ask for something, you're a bitch in that situation. When you never have to ask for anything in life, that's where you eventually want to be.

When you command respect, you simply take it from them.

If you're having things taken from you in life, you're the bitch. If you're taking, you have power. That is the difference.

[–]TangoZulu 11 points12 points  (2 children)

You are confusing "respect" with "compliance". Respect is not something that can be taken. It can only be given and must be earned. You can enforce compliance through power, but that doesn't mean the person respects you.

In the OP's story, he earned the respect of the girl and his peers by standing up to the drunk guy. But he didn't "take" respect from the drunk, he only enforced his compliance. Big difference.

[–]__ZEAL__ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I understand what you're saying, and agree to a certain point. But you're still taking it indirectly. Sure, they're giving it to you. But without your actions, taking what you want out of life, they aren't giving it to you.

In that way, you're straight up taking respect through your actions.

[–]TangoZulu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think we are talking about nuances of the word "respect". To "respect someone" is to hold them in high esteem; it is an individual emotion and how one party feels about the other. That is a one-way street, you cannot force a person to respect you. That is their opinion of you and can only be earned. To be "treated with respect" is a determination of their interactions with you. You can enforce "being treated with respect" if you hold some sort of power over the other party, be it professional, social or physical power. In that way, you can force someone to "give you respect" because you hold power over them, but that doesn't mean that they actually respect you, only that they are forced to treat you as such due to the power you hold over them.

A perfect example of this is in Band Of Brothers. Captain Sobel was the company's commanding officer. The soldiers were forced to "treat him with respect" because he was their rank superior. But they did NOT respect him as a soldier or leader; he had not earned their respect because he was an ineffective and inept commander.

[–]civilitarygaming 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You don't "take" respect. When you command respect it is given to you because of your actions, character.

[–]__ZEAL__ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're commanding respect from someone through your actions, it's not much different than taking their respect. People can't help but give it to you. Through your actions you're essentially taking it from them forcefully, without them realizing it. We can rationalize it as giving all we want, but when someone does something so worthy of respect that we can't help but give it, that's them taking that respect from us by "force" in a way.

[–]dying_ticklez 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Respect is to men like attraction is to women. You cannot negotiate it. If you have to beg for it, you don't have it. Even if you get the other person to say they respect you, they won't unless you have done something through your presence/actions to earn it.

[–]RedPillRobin 26 points27 points  (0 children)

That was a boss move man. Your plate will be spinning her self for a good while to come.

In my profession I often have to put someone in there place and it can be challenging. You have to be slick about it you can't come off as angry and out of control your self. But firm and to the point will usually work unless your dealing with a complete psychopath in which case just move on.

[–]AvengerSentinel 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Great post, I love your writings. Am still looking forward to you making a post about why you called off your wedding.

[–]electricspresident 13 points14 points  (4 children)

I don't really get how to do this without threatening a fight you know? Like I'm not respected much but enough...I've played various scenarios out and it seems it's either a fight or walkaway from friendship

[–]Red_Faust 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Here, I can tell you some tips.

Don't bring your LTR or plate to night venues where there are alpha friends of yours. Never a good idea, specially if they have learnt pickup material. I've seen supposed "friends" of mine trying to pickup my dates with the same strategies I had taught them. Heh. Good luck with that.

Another alternative is to bring up a plate you don't care too much for, and see which of your friends hit on her. This will show you who disrespects you, and you can use it like a filter.

I have a couple of very close friends that never, ever, have tried to do that, even when I've brought really beautiful and cool girls. Unfortunately these two are currently married (ikr?) so I don't go out with them as often.

My current problem is actually with random guys, who don't know me and thus don't give a fig about me.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

There IS the chance of a fight, but it's better to be avoided. If he got handsy with her at the bar, for instance, I would've physically removed his hands, and justifiably. Who knows where it goes from there? You can assert yourself with a friend and give them the opportunity to make it right with you, by the way, or you can just walk away as you suggested. Nobody can decide for you whether you should walk away from a friendship.

[–]LordThunderbolt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thats her job to tell him to keep his hands off her. You would be pathetically mate guarding. You poorly handled the whole situation.

[–]newbie80 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Assertiveness. It's a skill we need to master.

[–]ChangeIsTheAnswer points points [recovered]

I have a question:

If that older guy refused to back down/ refused to apologise. What could have OP done? Seriously.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

I would have asked him if he really wants to go down this road and then proceeded to sever his social standing exactly the way I did anyways. If you meant with respect to actually touching my plate again, I would've gotten physical with him (removing his hands, who knows if he escalates), and justifiably so.

[–]sumethreuaweiei 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So basically, if he refuses or insults you, tell him to leave and tell other people he hurt your feelings? Not trying to bash you but come on, man. Especially if it's somebody you barely know, they don't care to talk to you anyways

[–]Roaring40sUK 5 points6 points  (2 children)

She's clearly quite uncomfortable (almost jumping out of her skin as he ran his fingers over her back, actually)..

His only crime was to do this as a beta. Thats the only thing that made her uncomfortable.

so I stand up, grab our coats and angrily tell the group we are headed to the bar.

This sounds like you lost frame here.

Your plate sounds easily impressed. It all sounds like an over reaction to me.

[–]SetConsumes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No not only crime, he did not correctly read the woman's body language.

[–]Phoenixtorment 15 points16 points  (11 children)

"It's taking everything in my power not to kiss you right now."

Exact PUA technique.

Anyway, I wonder how this story would have went if the old guy was a Chad.

I get some mixed feelings about this story, on one hand you handled it, on the other - you were heavily affected, enraged even. A boy demanding respect, which turned into somewhat commanding it.

Then elaborating (justifying) your actions by talking how he was an asshole all along.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

The only reason he touched her at all is because he's 30+ years older than me and knew I wouldn't escalate physically. If he was a "chad" he wouldn't have dared. The moment he put his hands on her, I would've put my hands on him. Rage is neither alpha nor beta. Alpha turns his rage outward, because he can, beta turns his rage inward, because he has to.

[–]Slut_Slayer9000 5 points6 points  (8 children)

See I feel like personally instead of getting all angry and defensive, I would've started heavily shit testing the guy and knocking him down a peg in front of everyone (specifically about his age), and definitely brushed his hand off my plates shoulder and put my arm around here. I'm glad it worked out well for you, but next time with a more experienced guy that same tactic might not work. The reason it worked here is because you are more valuable to the group then this guy, if you weren't they'd laughed at your face and make fun about how angry you became. Because lets be honest here you did lose frame, never lose frame, never make decisions based off your emotional response.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

You have a distorted view of frame. I quite obviously maintained my frame. Too many people on here conflate the term frame with the term composure, or the idea of being unaffected. Frame implies controlling your reality and the tone of an interaction. A few extreme examples to illustrate my point: A General who executes an insubordinate is maintaining frame, a slaveholder who whips a slave is also maintaining frame, as is a nation that repels an invasion. Don Corleone was maintaining frame when he smacked Johnny Fontane and yelled at him in Godfather I.

[–]Slut_Slayer9000 9 points10 points  (4 children)

I quite obviously maintained my frame

How many mental gymnastics did you do to come to this conclusion? You're hamstering yourself if you think you maintained frame you didn't in the least bit. You don't understand the true meaning of frame. Frame is being calm, composed and unaffected by anyone or anything. You're suppose to be a rock not a sheet in the wind effected by every element coming at you. You're examples have far too many elements at play to understand if someone maintained frame or not. A general who executes a subordinate who defied his authority could be considered maintaining frame, but on the other hand a general who executes a subordinate because he had an alternate view point to the general just makes him look weak to those around him. Ruling by an iron fist doesn't make you alpha. Calling yourself King doesn't make you alpha, having more money then someone doesn't make you alpha. If you handle these things appropriately and rationally without having to execute or physically punish others then that's the ultimate display of frame there is. Are you more impress by a Ruler who has to murder everyone who disobeys him or are you more impressed by a Ruler who rules a well behaved happy society that loves him as Ruler not by fear but by sheer gratitude? Defintely the latter.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

Of course I want the benevolent leader, I also want a social circle where my date doesn't get groped. Did you even read my post? Yet frame is a neutral concept. Ruling with an iron fist is absolutely alpha, that doesn't necessarily make it morally right or even a competent approach. Alpha comes in many forms and it is not always desirable.

[–]Slut_Slayer9000 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I also want a social circle where my date doesn't get groped.

So does everyone, its up to you to not tolerate that which I commend you for. But the way you went about it was way over the top and the nuclear option. You can handle such interactions much more diplomatically and in doing so more alpha. Anyone can rule with an iron fist it doesn't take any particular set of skill to do so. But not everyone can rule benevolently with success meanwhile being praised by the people whom you rule over is much more alpha then killing off anyone who disagrees with you. Go read 48 laws of power to get a better grasp of this concept.

[–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just because they do business with you, it doesn't mean they're your friends. What can't you understand? These people don't owe you anything. Learn to differentiate friends from acquaintances.

[–]TangoZulu 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think Don Corleone actually lost frame in that moment and it came off as a bully. Contrast that with how Michael handles the business, cool as a cucumber, even when confronting Fredo about his betrayal. Being quick to anger is why Sonny wasn't fit to be the Don; it's a core message of the movie.

[–]_the_shape_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That line strikes me as one belonging to the very early PUA days, something Mystery probably used successfully. If the old guy truly was a Chad, I think he would have swooped in for the kill/kiss with little to no regard for OP's plate.

I agree though that he demonstrated far too much emotion, too much AMOGing.

[–]hashtagpls 3 points4 points  (5 children)

good work man; just curious, what sort of industry is this that people think it's ok to hit on other people's dates?

[–]ei8hts 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Friend of a friend, could be any industry

[–]hashtagpls 1 point2 points  (0 children)

a friend that makes you ruin a lucrative business relationship so he can one up his nearest competitor, and in the meantime profit from your loss?

That's not friendship, mate; friendship is solidarity. Let me ask you, is the US committed to recompensating Korean companies for businesses lost in China? That's what a friend would do.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

I run a consulting practice. The moral of the story is that people in my industry DON'T think this behavior is acceptable. This guy has now been served the memo.

[–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those are co-workers not friends. There was no reason for you to drag that girl to meet them.

[–]Kafkaevsky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It literally paid! Nice story.

[–]ronsoness 2 points3 points  (0 children)

great story. assertiveness and trp go hand in hand. all went well there. and no physical violence or threats were made. but it's painful to imagine how awful both you and your date would feel if you just were passive about it... you would've hated yourself for not being able to do anything, your date would feel violated and lose respect for you, and those negative feelings wouldve leak into your relationship. and there are men out there right now whose relationships are on the rocks because of situations like this.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The fact that he started shit in a business environment shows how desperate he is. Highly unprofessional and just plain disrespectful. No common sense. He doesn't 'get it' and got the boot.

[–]1ozaku7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Notice how this "AMOG" tried to assert his alpha position and dominance, yet fucking it completely up. It takes another alpha to step up and demote him from the position he doesn't deserve, aka, self-proclaimed alpha.

Position does not equal truth. An alpha can be 100% right, or can be 100% wrong, so never follow an alpha blindly. Your self-respect is number 1, the respect towards the alpha is always number 2. People respect you as much as you respect yourself.

[–]Redpillbrigade17 6 points7 points  (12 children)

WTF dude. Moral of the story? Do not mix the date with the other social situation. No need to go back there and introduce her. Politely say bye guys I have plans now, and then start your date. Maybe nod and smile and wave from your now separate table and private environment. If they want to chat / meet her, they can come over one by one or whatever.

You put her in that position to be groped by drunk dudes. You're lucky she put up with that.

[–]dying_ticklez 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Yeah but it also gave him a chance to showcase his willingness to stand up for her. Always opportunity in chaos, and it looks like he handled this one well. Next time keep her away...although he did say he planned on lunch being over. I've been on these business lunches and a lunch hour can easily turn into 2 or 3 when drinks are involved

[–]LordThunderbolt 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Stand up for her? What is this, a movie? You dont mix business with pleasure. Hus meetig with those dudes was over. Theyre not his homies or his friends, theyre business acquaintances. He gains nothing from introducing a girl hes on a date with to a bunch of dudes hes doing business with. What is there to gain here? The guys already acknowledged the meeting to he over, him coming back with the chick isjust weird and cucky. What did he want them to do for him?

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

The vast majority of my business comes from mixing business with pleasure. You'll find this to be true of most successful businessmen. Clients are maintained maybe 10% merit and 90% relationship.

[–]dying_ticklez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. I'm not saying go all white knight. OP did great and her reaction is proof.

There is a difference in being firm with boundaries and white knighting. The real world isn't so black and white.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

Did you not notice the social proof offered by every other member of the group in addition to the confrontation here? Avoiding mingling your girl with your social circle can only mean you are self conscious about your standing and your ability to handle yourself.

[–]Slut_Slayer9000 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I defintely see where you're coming from but in this type of situation way more bad then good can come from this. Yeah you get some sort of social proof but what's the cost? Its not worth what transpired through your interaction. I personally don't let a plate mingle with anyone I know unless I'm actively fucking her at that point.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

I've been fucking her for quite a while. Imposing your will and preventing others from imposing theirs on you is the height of masculinity. His will was to embarrass me and take my plate, my will was to punish him for this. I did just fine.

[–]Slut_Slayer9000 2 points3 points  (1 child)

imposing your will and preventing others from imposing theirs on you is the height of masculinity.

Can you not see that he imposed his will on you and broke your frame? If you cannot understand that simple fact then its gonna be hard for you to grow in the future.

His will was to embarrass me and take my plate, my will was to punish him for this.

Which you did, with the nuclear option... You've could handled it better by shit testing him in front of everyone instead throwing a bitch fit and physically moving the entire group out of his frame and into yours, which only every works if you posses more value then the other person which one could argue if that's the case then why the fuck are you getting so angry about a peasant if you're a king. Your first mistake was entering his frame to begin with. A. I wouldn't put myself in the situation and just met her someone else. B. If that's impossible a simple smile n nod, and comment to your plate about how you knew them would've sufficed, but you wanted to bring her over to them (entering their frame) as some sort of show of "Social proof." Which is coming from a place to try to impress the girl, not good. Someone with more game would destroy you. I'm telling you this not to insult you but to give you a realistic perspective on this situation instead of the mental masturbation this post reeks of.

[–]Redpillbrigade17 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Pretty much. The moment OP compromised on his plan and joined the prior group with his plate is when he shot himself in the foot. It's more mature and respectful even to his business associates to politely decline their invite for another round.

[–]Redpillbrigade17 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah that's fine. Sounds like you handled it well once that situation got out of hand. You avoided situation from getting bad to worse. Maybe even scored points indeed with the chick. My point was it seemed you mingled the two worlds too much and it seemed you lost your frame if you've changed your plans for a private dinner /drink to now accommodate your business associates -with whom you had already spent 2-3 hours. Low and behold the dudes decide to test you and openly hit on your chick. Of course since they're douches/ horny boys and now a chick's brought to them. Linger with the guys if you have a strong frame. Sounds like you did. But why put her, and them in this situation? They're business associates not your buddies . I guess it depends on how you want to manage your relationships.

[–]LordThunderbolt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Learn to know the difference between friends and acquaintances. Business associates arent your social circle, theyre just acquaintances. If youre on a date, focus on the date itself. Those dudes shouldve stopped existing the minute you left them for the bar.

Dude, youre already on a date. Who cares about social proof? Im surprise you even get laid, to be honest. All u had to do was say "Yeah i was just in a businees meeting with those guys". There was absolutely ZERO need for her to meet your business acquaintances, like ZERO. She gains nothing from it, and neither do you. Her focus was already on you at the bar, but you had to drag her to meet a bunch of old dudes and worst is you sat her IN BETWEEN you and one of them. What did u expect to happen? Up your game dude. The social proof already happened from them looking at you two and you acknowledging them. Thats all you needed. You poorly thought out and executed your date. Then at the end, he even had the balls to go put his hand on her again right in fron of you. You might think you won something here, but his disresoect and disregard for you lasted until he left. Youre lucky you're still fucking that chick really. Come on dude.

[–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those people aren't your friends, what can't you understand.

[–]no_face 7 points8 points  (7 children)

rub her back sensually, as if in consolation, then whispers something in her ear.

He's been watching PUA videos

Intensely, obviously fighting repressed rage, I told him how weird he had made things back there.

So whiteknighting works?

[–]ei8hts 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Of course it does if you couch the white knighting in the right way. Insta-friend to all nearby SJWs and the surrounding majority of blue-pillers. It wins over all the politically correct people in the room and shows your frame. Not that it matters whether or not people like you, but it can be helpful and or useful.

[–]Kwantuum 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Not that it matters whether or not people like you, but it can be helpful and or useful.

Isn't that pretty much what 'it matters' means? Whether people like you or not matters a lot actually, you shouldn't base your self-worth on it, but if nobody likes you you'll have a hard time succeeding in life and there's probably something you're doing wrong.

[–]Kwantuum 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's not white-knighting if the girl needs/wants your help. White knighting is only this cringey because a guy is trying to "help" a girl that usually doesn't need help, want help, and usually doesn't even know the guy.

[–]Shaman6624 2 points3 points  (0 children)

White knighting is more about the motivation behind it. If you do it purely in a powertalk way, it's only under the guise of white knighting. If you truly believe what you say and think it will get you the girl if you apply to higher morals and shit then you fail

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

I really despise this term "white knighting" - just a pussified way of hamstering men not to stand up for themselves and the women in their presence. It's not that complicated, really; if you engage in conflict with other men and win (without making a fool of yourself in the process) then the females will want you more. If you lose, or make a fool of yourself, they will like you less. Women are just waiting at the finish line to see who wins the race. All Red Pillers should read up on the war bride phenomenon to better familiarize themselves with this concept. Yes, women will even compete over and love men who ransack their homelands.

[–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude you sound like an autistic try hard.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Y'all are silly with this shit missing the point of life to satisfy baseless symbolic concepts of power because you are too afraid to trust your own imaginations to conceive of a world that is actually of your own making so instead take wholesale other people's ideas of self-hood and then carry them out all the while story telling to yourself excitedly not realizing that separating your experience in this way will only make what you claim to be conquering worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse etc

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

You should take up slam poetry

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thanks i adore all my fans

[–]keytoimmortality 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I was once out with a HB9 and had some guy come up and say she's far too good looking to be dating me, what would a good response to this have been?

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

"I think you're too drunk to be in public." "How about you mind your own fuckin business?" "Who should she be with, a (insult) like you?" "If you want to insert yourself in our evening, grab the bill instead."

[–]spaseur 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"I was with your mother just before"

[–]crowhorn52 1 point2 points  (0 children)


Rock on. Solid advice and execution.

[–] points points

[permanently deleted]

[–]Shaman6624 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Idk man, it was his plate and he was openly showing disrespect in his professional circle by trying her, if that happens it's time to assert some boundaries.

[–]Red_Faust 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Indeed it's a boundaries problem. And the problem is how to enforce those boundaries in a social context without fighting, or pissing people off, or looking like a bitch.

I'm starting to consider the alternative of shaming the culprit. But that will only work when he behaves in an AFC, beta way. This is only a hypothesis.

[–]Shaman6624 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah what OP did takes some serious social callibration. It probably is too difficult to define when to do it this way and when to do it the other way. Only you know how to do it if you are in a situation like that. The how will take care of itsself if you know the what: Assert your boundaries. You'll find a way to do it.

[–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who's fault is it for bringing a plate to meet people who aren't your friends but you're just doing business with.

[–]LordThunderbolt -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Theyre not even his friends, they dont owe him shit. He brought a date to meet a group of business acquaintances. For what?? What was there to gain here? What did he expect to happen?? Hese were peopel hes doing business with, theyre not his friends. When u bring a chick into a group of dudes who arent your friends, anything goes. They shouldve took her from him and fucked her.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

This is such a foolish comment, I don't even know where to begin.

[–]LordThunderbolt 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Why the fuck did u introduce her to those dudes? Explain to me with logic why you thought it was important for a girl youre on a date with to meet a bunch of old dudes who arent your friends?? What kind of cucky shit is that? Your business meeting is over, just enjoy your date. She doesnt need to know those people. Just enjoy your time with the girl. Are those dudes your uncles? No. So they dont need to meet a girl you brought on a date. Christ. Im more pissed at this than I should be.

Youre a real moron dude. They should've took her from u and fucked her. You set yourself up for that one. Im pissed because youre so dumb, its not even funny. Its like "Hey guys, here's this chick im trying to fuck. I brought her here to meet you all so that you can engage her in a conversation and maybe flirt with her right in front of me. Cuck me please". The best part is that youre pissed at the guy for making a ove on her becase she was "on a date" with you. She clearly wasnt on a date with you, since you thought it was a good idea to nest her between you and an older coworker instead of sitting at the bar with her and gaming her while disregarding the guys.

Moral of the story: When youre on a date, act like it. Dont bring the girl back to meet a bunch of dudes u dont even fucking really know. Theyre not your friends, theyre business partners or whatever. Your business meeting is over, just focus on your date.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

Please depart more wisdom about social dynamics. I could also your help with spelling and sentence structure.

[–]nombre1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Please depart more wisdom

The word you're looking for is impart:

1. to make known; tell; relate; disclose: to impart a secret.

2. to give; bestow; communicate: to impart knowledge.

3. to grant a part or share of.

[–]quickeddie points points [recovered]

No. My use of the word depart comes from the phrase "departing words of wisdom" with the implication being that I am humbly requesting the above commenter not to leave without leaving behind more of his wisdom.

[–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You belong on IAmVerySmart. Too bad I can't link you. You try too hard man.

[–]LordThunderbolt -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I didnt expect anything more substantial from your reply. You didnt disapoint, clown. Those dudes are all laughing at how pathetic you are.

[–]Shaman6624 1 point2 points  (3 children)

This story doesn't sound like that at all. It seems more like you are the disconnected one. But the truth is probably somewhere in the middle

[–]LordThunderbolt 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yeah? Then answer the questions I asked.

[–]Shaman6624 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well you're right in that it would probably also be a good move to politely decline the last round of drinks. And to have a date somewhere else to keep work and private seperated.

But this situation is more nuanced then that and because OP knows who he's dealing with and what he can and can't do (he said in another comment that he doesn't really care about burning bridges so he has all the room to be assertive) he can pull off what he did.

Also it's perfectly socially acceptable to introduce a plate to your colleagues/extended social circle if your paths happen to meet. And it's a clear message if one of them decides to shit on you and starts flirting with her blatantly. That's in powertalk terms: idgaf about you and don't respect you at all. He's also broadcasting that to all the others at the table. Read the gervais principle of you haven't already.

What OP did after that was drastic and over time he will undoubtedly become more socially fluent but I think that he won some respect from his partner just for having the balls to do that. Also I think that to say they are laughing at him behind his back is borderline paranoid.

[–]LordThunderbolt -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Completely unnecessary to go back and engage the group. The meeting was over. As far as introducing a random bitch you're on a date with to a group of acquaintances, that's moronic. The girl didn't interrupt them. Imagine u being in her place; you're in a date with a guy you low-key want to fuck and out of nowhere he introduces you to a bunch of strange old men who he doesn't even know really well and has you sit in the middle of them to talk about shit that you don't care about. You're here to try and get laid, and this autist has you sitting auth a bunch of dudes you don't give a fuck about and who's relation to the guy you're trying to fuck has nothing to do with you.

Don't you see how retarded that is?

And as far as the follow up. They're laughing at him behind his back for sure. He was mate guarding a random chick he served them on a platter.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I quite enjoyed this comment. U cool

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hilariously, I bet that's worked for him just fine in the past. He sounds like a savage.

[–]redestofthereds 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Told a fat girl that I wanted to cum in her mouth once during a mid conversation while smoking. I was really drunk and I was in a dry spell.

[–]nolanite points points [recovered]

I don't fault you for anything here, but at the same time, this could have backfired. He could have said "fuck you. I'm not apologizing for shit," (or a derivation thereof). Then what? You'd lose SMV. You're telling someone to apologize and he's telling you to GFY. You'd look like a chump.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)


    [–][deleted]  (1 child)


      [–]TehJimmyy -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      Moral of this story

      Do not piss introverts .