Red Pill Example"Marvel executive says emphasis on diversity may have alienated readers" (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by 1mojo_juju

Marvel is starting to realize what anyone lurking TRP realized months or years ago: Marvel's new strategy (the same strategy you've seen any place where trend-followers adopt the newest socially-virtuous fad) catering to SJWs-- is a tanking strategy.

(Along with any other media that attempts to bastardize what cultural or media pursuits young heterosexual males engage in)

Yeah, get this-- Someone at Marvel thought that changing up their comic stories to include more minority and female characters... was somehow going to keep their base (heterosexual males, mostly white, mostly young) engaged.

Whose idea was that, I wonder. Was there a profit motive? Or was the motive politically-driven? We all know the answer.

Perhaps the geniuses at Marvel thought that by changing the culture of their product, that somehow they would appeal to a culture that has never really had an interest in them: non-"heterosexual male" population groups.

Somehow, I suppose, they must have thought there would be a positive impact on their profit line by diversifying their character cast & stories to "Social-justice"-ify them.

Well... apparently these Marvel folks who are so interested in social justice & minority/female incorporation, misjudged the appreciation they would receive from the SJW crowd and the economy at large.

They pandered... and those they pandered to either did not care, or do not exist en masse enough to result in an ROI on the idiotic decision to pander to them.

Marvel Comics' SJW-catering strategy is tanking.

Marvel executive says emphasis on diversity may have alienated readers

Columbia Pictures' new GhostBusters tanked hardcore.

What new SJW-pandering media products will continue bashing heads against walls, trying to alter our culture on an industrial scale?

It will be entertaining to see. I look forward to more SJW-pandering media flops.

[–]Snowiceolated 524 points525 points  (151 children)

The problem is they're trying to replace the original heroes. Female Thor? Latino Spiderman? Muslim Ms. Marvel?

It's the laziest shit ever. As a black guy I'd love to see more heroes who are black, but I want them to be NEW characters. I don't want black Captain America. Who the hell wants the same storyline as Steve Rogers rehashed just with Stephan Freeman instead? I want heroes like Black Panther - a hero who was created from the beginning with his African lineage in mind. It makes it a genuine and key part of the character, and you couldn't just swap in an Indian guy. Same thing with Dare Devil - his blindless is a genuine and key part of what makes him Dare Devil. You couldn't just swap in some other handicap. Instead of pissing off dedicated fans of the original Spiderman, Ironman, and Thor how about they come up with a completely new superhero that happens to be a woman instead?

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 121 points122 points  (45 children)

THIS, so much.

The funny thing is that promoting to diversity isn't nearly as new and uber-progressive as they pretend - there has been a progressively larger number of high-profile heroines ever since the... 70s? and also PoC heroes (though these are more rare).

And no one would have really bat an eye had they introduced new characters. But what they did was trying to reimagine existing characters. And this is basically just pandering to the SJWs: because they can't live with white males being on top (in this case on top of the popularity scale), they reinvent them as anything-but-white-males.

This wasn't laziness - this was absolutely intentional. They wanted to jump on the bandwagon of the rainbow coalition of progress (i.e. the cultural phenomenon that seems to operate under the assumption that ganging up on white men is a honorable endeavor and the condition for utopia on Earth), and this was their way of doing so.

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (41 children)

I'm not even trying to troll but I honestly don't understand how people make this argument but then still go around changing a bunch of asian characters to white while still rationalizing them. It just sounds like reverse laziness. And for the record, i'm not only speaking about GITS. Almost the entire cast of 21, dragon ball evolution, Doctor Strange, Aloha, Chris Nolan's Batman series with Ras Al Gul, Death Note, the main cast of Edge of Tomorrow, and at least 20 more.

[–]crassus_ensis 57 points58 points  (3 children)

You can make both his argument and yours, they're not exclusive. I hate seeing white characters replaced with minorities just as much as I hate seeing the opposite. They're both lazy and pandering methods of appealing to a wider audience that cheapen any story.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I wish someone could tell this to the people over at /r/movies

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Almost the entire cast of 21, dragon ball evolution, Doctor Strange, Aloha, Chris Nolan's Batman series with Ras Al Gul, Death Note, the main cast of Edge of Tomorrow, and at least 20 more.

My 2c on this: Regarding anime, most of them don't work outside this medium and make bad live action movies in the first place; simply because the over-the-top nature of the source material stretches the suspension of disbelief too much. I tried a few real life-adaptions, and in most cases I couldn't even get past the trailer (Casherrn, Attack on Titan, and, yes, Death Note). Attack on Titan by the way is an inverse example - the anime took place in a European/German environment, while the live action movie was "asianized" (for obvious reasons).

I don't have a problem with "localizations" (for lack of a better word), though. I mean, what they did with Edge of Tomorrow (one of the few mangas they actually managed to turn into a decent live action flick) is more like what they did with Ringu than what Marvel did to score SJW points.

Also, the motivation is different (like OlanValesco said). In one case you have an attempt to push a progressive SJW message by piggybacking on the popularity of an existing franchise. In the other, you get the localization in order to maximize appeal for an entirely new audience.

Ironically, the one thing that really bugged me was is something you didn't even mention - Khan in the Star Trek reboot. This makes no sense at all, because they didn't even bother trying to cast a character in the likeness of the old Khan. Khan was established as an Asian character in the lore, and while Ricardo Montalban was already stretching it (due to the 60s practice of casting white actors as Asians), they really went off the rails with Cumberbatch. Here they missed a perfect opportunity.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

In the other, you get the localization in order to maximize appeal for an entirely new audience.

this presupposes that people don't want to see an actor who looks Asian, which makes no sense. There are tons of actors with full asian ancestry who have proven their worth in Western media and have the chops to take on leading roles without being strung to stereotypes. And it's not just a white actor thing, because people will sure as hell pay for black actors to take lead roles for big blockbuster films. People will even be more accepting of gay roles even though homosexual men make up way less of the American population than Asians. What is it about people with Asian ancestry that makes people so UNwilling to pay to watch them? It seems like a circular argument where we're not willing to give them the chance to prove their worth and relegating them to shitty stereotypical roles and perpetuating that by saying that there are no good roles for them.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 2 points3 points  (1 child)

There are tons of actors with full asian ancestry who have proven their worth in Western media and have the chops to take on leading roles without being strung to stereotypes.

Give me a name of one who would have the pulling power of Tom Cruise (or Will Smith). Scientology membership not mandatory. And who could star in an action blockbuster as the leading role. And who is American (i.e. not Jackie Chan or Jet Li).

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

why would i need to give you an actor who has the pulling power of tom cruise when literally no name actors are getting roles that Asian/Asian American actors could/should have gotten?? No one would make that sort of argument for black actors but of course this argument would be brought up for yellow ones. And why would they HAVE to be American born for them to be cast in non stereotyped leading roles? Non-American white or black actors/actresses get leading roles in hollywood films all the time. What kind of argument is this??

[–]OlanValesco 23 points24 points  (17 children)

In America, whitewashing happens for marketing reasons, whereas color-coding happens for political reasons. I won't ascribe moral value to either of those motivations, but there's the distinction.

[–]Modredpillschool 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I'm not convinced whitewashing it quite at the same level of deviousness. Consider- if a community in China wanted to put on a production of Hamlet, would they import a bunch of white fellas or just do it with their own actors and in their own language?

[–]CQC3 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As usual, I think it's varied and case by case. You can make the argument that for marketing reasons and for appeasing investors that being able to market an already famous white actor for a role that has an Asian character is a smart choice, and I agree.

But for relatively new or unknown intellectual properties it makes absolutely zero sense to me why you would cast a white person for an obviously Asian role for an already obscure movie. Like who the fuck was gonna see Dragonball Evolution but fans of Dragonball and other anime fans/consumers of Asian culture? You're talking about people that watch anime with English subtitles and probably consume more Japanese media than English. Somehow I don't think giving some up and coming Asian kid a chance for this shit show of a movie would've been catastrophic, because clearly the backlash for that movie was already fairly large.

Hollywood is quick to cast Asian women, but not men. While I am a man more closely aligned with TRP than not, I won't pretend there isn't some garbage ass typecasting in the popular media sphere of the world. I'm not gonna cry about some insidious racism like SJW's would, but I definitely think that there needs to be changes made.

Here's the thing: Hollywood doesn't give a fuck about all that, it's superficial. If Asians and Indians alike want to get out of the shit typecasting they have, then as a whole my Americanized bro's need to step their game up and make some moves in the real world. Media and movies are based off of the real world in some ways, and quite frankly a large amount of Asians and Indians are still too cucked by their parents traditions to move into more unorthodox realms of work. The amount of Asians and Indians pursuing this type of work is minimal, and so they are at the mercy of Hollywood. How many Asians/Indians pursue being a director, an actor? Of those, how many are in shape and good looking? If you're a scrawny ass Indian kid looking to be an actor, how the fuck you gonna complain if you get casted as the permavirgin side kick? Nobody who sees an Asian dude in a movie would immediately think that guy's role in the film is to be a stud, because how many guys like that do they know in real life? These things take time, and I'm confident will be better in the future as the directors of tomorrow will have grown up in a more "diverse" world in the better sense of the term.

It's like Feminists who cry about female representation in gaming trying to appeal to publishers and devs to change stuff. They should fuck off, if it's that important to them why don't they just learn programming and be the change they want to see? Instead of making appeals to a greater power, strive to be the greater power.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (13 children)

So as an American who happens to have asian ancestry, am I supposed to be content with peprpetually seeing roles meant for Asian faces get taken over or relegated to 2 dimensional stereotypes?

[–]OlanValesco 28 points29 points  (8 children)

You can feel however you want to. The facts are: a) people are more likely to pay for media they can identify with, b) most people in America are white (less than 5% Asian), and c) entertainment companies want to maximize profit. It's your choice whether or not to be grieved due to these facts, and I won't fault you if you are. I think feeling snubbed and marginalized is a valid response.

At the end of the day, as long as entertainment is for profit, the producers will adapt their productions to maximize that profit. The point of the OP was to show an example of a media producer who set ideals over profits and later came to regret it. They changed for political instead of market reasons and lost at the market game.

[–]Dtrp 10 points11 points  (8 children)

Most Asian anime draws there characters white. Unless you see a ton of people in Japan running around with pale skin and wide eyes. A white man looks closer to Goku, or L, than an Asian. Just because a cartoon is drawn in a country doesn't automatically make the creation that race. Not to say white washing doesn't happen, just that in animes, it appears the artists do it themselves. Edit: Safari champolo, Dbz Death note 7 deadly sins Bleach Brzerk Code giuess

Have Asian named characters but are drawn as white characters

[–]ezone2kil 3 points4 points  (2 children)

It may sound racist but why do you think girls are drawn with huge eyes in manga? People want what they can't have.

[–]CQC3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Racist no, uneducated and lazy yes, don't go for the low hanging fruit. It's okay if you don't know, can't be an expert in everything, but basically anime characters having large eyes has WAY more to do with the initial inspiration that popular western cartoons had on Japanese animators many decades ago and the advantage of expression they offer in cartoons. Looking at anime and manga you'll see each author/studio has their own style with their own proportions. Some extremely popular creators like Miyazaki often draw pretty realistic proportions, and on the whole Japanese media is appealing to youth in the west because of just how culturally authentic it is (note I said authentic, not realistic). When you watch anime you never get the impression that they're trying to appeal to foreigners, the Japanese are unapologetically Japanese which is why seeing the tropes and cliche's that are relevant to their culture is so damn entertaining to me.

[–]Kinote_42 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They don't draw them "white", that's your perception. The are very much Japanese looking to the artist that draws them. It's kinda of like how Homer Simpson is perceived and implied to be a white guy even though he is yellow. Those characters do not look white to me.

[–]CQC3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I dunno what the fuck you're talking about. DBZ is racially ambiguous and takes place in a different world. Death Note is more grounded in our world with supernatural elements. Light Yagami from Death Note is definitely Japanese, he dresses it, and for the most part looks it. L is NOT Japanese, not even in the show. He is an orphan and from another country so...not sure where you were going with that.

Code Geass is also in a completely fictional world where Japan is occupied by "Brittania" and Lelouch is I think half and half, and his name is a mixture of french so...there's nothing concrete there.

The funny thing about anime is that a lot of it is very racially ambiguous, some shows are very realistic and many are not. Racially you seldom can place whether a character is of a certain race by physiology, because none of it is particularly concerned with realism there. For example you'll have characters with blonde hair, but it doesn't mean they're European, it's a stylistic quirk that usually means that they're a punk or for girls it's usually meant to show a wayward personality.

[–]2comment 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The difference in many of those examples is that the main American/Western Audience never heard of Edge of Tomorrow until it was imported and many don't even realize it's imported. It's just that Tom Cruise movie. The supermajority of anime and manga titles are niche, even in Japan itself.

Even secondary Batman characters like Ras Al Gul are pretty much unknown to the general public. The only batman villain really widely known is the Joker. As Halle Berry's Catwoman showed, secondary characters' identities can be played with with no one really giving a shit.

OTOH, people here grew up with Spiderman and multiple generations of Superhero TV shows and movies by now, so when he's changed, people notice.

[–]1OneRedYear 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Catwoman. Halle Berry...ugh. The worst. I still have nightmares about that basketball scene.

[–]MisfitMind00 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I just went to youtube to watch that scene. I almost died.

[–]Jigsus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not that I am defending the lazy movie adaptation of ghost in the shell but her ethnicity is a plot point. If anyone wants spoilers I can explain it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah they need to come up with some new heroes not just replace Peter Parker with Miles Morales.

Next thing you know they'll have some gay disabled (as in no legs and mental because she has autism) black woman with a super-science wheelchair beating The Hulk or something stupid.

[–]LordThunderbolt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's an asian Hulk too, u shitlord.

[–]snakehayter 19 points20 points  (3 children)

SJWs have to resort to aping other people's hard work because in a free market, they can't survive.

The failure of these comics is the epitome of why people hate SJWs.

[–]TryDoingSomethingNew 4 points5 points  (2 children)

The lack of their learning from consistent failures and continuing to double-down even more (intentionally continue doing even more of the same) is astounding, and clearly not an indicator of rational, intelligent people but emotionally-driven mentally lacking individuals.

There's smart, there's stupid, then there's "just plain crazy."

[–]Elodrian 19 points20 points  (3 children)

This is the problem exactly. It's not that there are minorities in comic books, it's that minorities are being shoehorned into comic books. This isn't some finite possibility space, if SJWs want a black muslim female superhero, they can write that book to the best of their ability and maybe there's a market for it. Retconning Spiderman is insulting to the fan base and new readers both.

[–]1EarthExile 6 points7 points  (1 child)

They wouldn't want to create something new- then other people could criticize them! Much better to simply lurk and spit contempt at everything civilization creates without them.

[–]getRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

they can write that book to the best of their ability and maybe there's a market for it.

... to the Best of their ability. There you have it. End of discussion. Period. That's why they have to kidnap other's creative work in first place.

There's a thing about (free) markets. It doesn't tolerate bullshit. Is the most Red Pill thing you have out there working, on a daily basis.

[–]justj6sh 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Just give us new and original heroes and stories.

[–]1EarthExile 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Their failure comes from two things.

  1. SJWs are not creative. They do not have that spark that makes people want to create or innovate, because they have turned their energy towards hating success and accomplishment.

  2. SJWs are racist. Their replacement characters are tokens, transparently created to shunt 'representation' into stories that used to feature complete characters with personalities. When you're replacing white men with literally anything else, and the new characters stories focus on SJW concerns, it's really really obvious to (primarily white male) comic book readers that the thing they enjoy is being hijacked by people who hate them.

It's the same issue Ghostbusters had, they wanted to piggyback on the success of men but they just couldn't restrain themselves from making it entirely about hating men.

[–]LargePepperoniPizza points points [recovered]

There's a reason why Static Shock is so popular.

[–]fakenate1 7 points8 points  (3 children)

A bunch of brothers were sick of the whites only club in comic books so they made stories for other African Americans?

[–]LargePepperoniPizza points points [recovered]

Yeah, but they made an original character with whom young black readers could relate.

[–]soothaa 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Best super hero ever IMO. Been dying for it to come to the big screen.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

They gotta find the right young black actor.

[–]2Overkillengine 12 points13 points  (2 children)

The problem is they're trying to replace the original heroes.

Which is a tacit admission that checking the diversity boxes alone is not enough to make a character interesting.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You can actually take this to the bank. If a company hires a female CEO because she is female, sell. Look at Yahoo for example. Then there are female CEOs like at Pepsi, they are CEO because they are intelligent= buy.

[–][deleted] 85 points86 points  (14 children)

... Black Panther ... with his African lineage ... couldn't just swap in an Indian guy

dirty Hindu accent "Hello and welcome to AT and T tech support. My name is Tyrone Washington."

[–]FrozenHearth 7 points8 points  (12 children)

What in the fuck is a "Hindu" accent? Hinduism is a religion. It's like saying Americans for eg, have a Christian accent. Talk about being ignorant.

[–]thro_way 10 points11 points  (10 children)

"Hindu" is shorthand for Indian, where 95+% of it's practitioners live.

His joke is lazy, but I don't think you actually had any confusion as to what he meant.

[–]FrozenHearth 4 points5 points  (8 children)

I understood that. But it just seemed ignorant lol. I've seen Westerners on social media say, "Man stop talking in Hindu" when an Indian guy types in broken English, which doesn't come off as a joke, and comes off more as ignorance, tbh. These are the same people who can't differentiate between turban wearing Sikhs and Muslims..

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (5 children)

Would you find it more beneficial to virtue signal how much better you are than the caveman, or actually mention some difference for the reader to gain your insight from?

Or, did you want to add value, or simply show off how great you are?

[–]RavelsBolero 9 points10 points  (1 child)

was created from the beginning with his African lineage in mind. It makes it a genuine and key part of the character

Indeed. And it's the same for everyone who isn't a retard - we want good writing, good stories, and that means identity politics has to take a back seat to story. Black Panther isn't just a black character, he's a character with a story, who is black, and in his case that fact happens to be highly relevant to his story. And despite this, being black still isn't his most important feature. He's a strong, athletic badass who can kick major ass - the most important part of any hero.

People who appreciate good stories don't want tokenism, because these kinds of people are intelligent enough to tell say, a token gay character, from a really good character who just happens to be gay.

[–]1EarthExile 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I even liked the Patriot storyline, from the Young Avengers series. This black kid finds out that his disabled, mute grandpa was part of some kind of Super Soldier Tuskeegee Experiment, where the government used black men as lab monkeys while they were trying to figure out how to make Captain America. Whatever they did to this guy messed him up, but his grandson inherits sweet powers and joins a group of teenage heroes.

It expands upon an existing storyline in a believable way, while also making a new characters' race and background relevant to his motivations.

[–]randarrow 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Blade, Hancock, everyone was cheering for these guys. Take captain America and put him in black face, everyone is going to be annoyed.

[–]WilliamBott 8 points9 points  (7 children)

FUCK. YES. This a million times.

I'd love to see some new characters in the Marvel universe that are minorities, gay or bi-sexual, etc. as long as they have interesting stories. I absolutely have no interest in seeing established characters re-written or changed to cater to whiny bitches.

[–]CopybookHeadings 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Once upon a time, Marvel did this. Case in point: The character Northstar, a mutant, from Alpha Flight, who came out as gay twenty-five years ago (1992). What made him so interesting though was the backstory. The character was, by any objective standard, an egotistical jerk, who was a dick to everyone. Moreover, before becoming a (reluctant) superhero, he had once used his super-speed to cheat in downhill skiing at the Olympics, and was stripped of his gold medal.

If memory serves, he joined Alpha Flight, in part to redeem himself after that scandal and in part to watch over his schizophrenic twin sister.

Overall, a solid, compelling, and nuanced character.

[–]CrazedHyperion 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Here's the problem - some minorities make their sexuality the most important part of their persona. The older characters did not, or simply, the subject of sex was not involved. They may play it by being edgy - so you're a white boy, and your parents disprove of you reading about homosexual black men, as it might give you the funny idea of trying 1) getting anally deflowered by 2) some random black guy, possibly in a back alley, while smoking some fine crack.

[–]WilliamBott 6 points7 points  (2 children)

So Marvel just has to write interesting backstories instead of throwing that shit in people's faces non-stop.

[–]2Overkillengine 6 points7 points  (0 children)

But that takes more work. They took the lazy route and got their just reward.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why not a Captain Niger or a Captain Chad.

[–]fakenate1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, you know the silver age brought in new superheroes. Barry Allen, Hal Jordan & Johnny storm all replaced well known and loved superheroes.

Same too in more recent times. Wally West became the flash and Kyle Raynor the green lantern.

There is a history of replacing heroes. Perhaps the problem is is that instead of like how kid flash became flash, they just invented a transgender lesbian who had access to the speed force and dumped xer into the universe.

[–]Robx9001 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I could use a Blade reboot.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

how about they come up with a completely new superhero that happens to be a woman instead?

Because the goal is destruction of masculinity, elevation of women, and promotion of equalitarianism by blurring the genders. Inventing more heroic women is not enough. We have to destroy the existing forms and replace them with the new reality.

[–]Rudeyyyy 3 points4 points  (24 children)

Wasn't Iron Fist Asian if i'm not mistaken? Or was he always white? I remember there being some criticism for having Finn Jones playing Rand in the Netflix show. Something about he's not a real Iron Fist because he isn't Asian or some shit.

[–]Resangel 32 points33 points  (10 children)

he was always white. SJW wanted him to be asian

[–]DigitallyDisrupt 7 points8 points  (7 children)

The (original) story would have had less impact had it been an Asian main character. The story is the disbelief that this "cracka" knows martial arts.

Btw, just found Iron Fist the other day. Binged the first three... wow, damn good story.

[–]Rudeyyyy 1 point2 points  (3 children)

good story but not a fan of the acting. Whoever played ward tried way to hard imo. Like at some points it was cringey. But i'm not a film critic I'l just shut my mouth.

[–]Utterberetacht 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Iron Fist initially wanted to cast Lewis Tan as the main protagonist. Then he got replaced by Finn Jones.

[–]Asiatic_Static 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Which pissed me off. He was the Drunken Fist master that fought Danny. At least Lewis Tan can handle fight choreo

[–]universaladaptoid 1 point2 points  (2 children)

He was always white. Some people wanted an Asian actor cast in the role, and this so-called controversy resulted in the show having bad reviews.

[–]Rudeyyyy 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Ngl I've watched Daredevil, Luke Cage, and Jessica Jones and I gotta say that I was somewhat dissapointed in Iron Fist. Daredevil set the bar I don't think Luke Cage or Jessica Jones beat Daredevil. In order Daredevil Luke Cage Iron Fist Jessica Jones

Can't wait to see how The Punisher is though. That's gonna be some shit to watch.

[–]universaladaptoid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah, I loved the way they handled the Punisher in Dardevil.

[–]1jb_trp 106 points107 points  (26 children)

People are tired of have a social justice agenda crammed down their throats. I don't care if the lead of Star Wars is a woman, or a black dude, or whatever, I just want it to be good. I watch movies to be entertained, and not for politics.

The reason Ghostbusters failed was because it wasn't funny, it was a reboot of a beloved franchise (people are tired of shitty reboots), and on top of that it was held up as this feminist statement that "Girls are funny and successful too!" People are mostly tired of it.

[–]universaladaptoid 24 points25 points  (0 children)

The reason Ghostbusters failed was because it wasn't funny.

Exactly! On top of it being an unnecessary sequel/spinoff, it was terribly written and was as unfunny as it can get.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 36 points37 points  (15 children)

The reason why the ghostbusters reboot failed is the same Marvel is mentioning here: alienation of your core market. Comics and ghostbusters-type movies make money because a large number of heterosexual males are willing to put money in that form of entertainment to which they can relate if the characters are heterosexual males.

Change the characters and the heterosexual male can't relate anymore so interest and sales from that demographics drop.. And although interest and sales from the new demographics might pick up thanks to the change, there is simply not enough interest from these new demographics to make up the loss. Women don't enjoy enough superheroes movies.

[–]G_Petronius points points [recovered]

Comics and ghostbusters-type movies make money because a large number of heterosexual males are willing to put money in that form of entertainment to which they can relate if the characters are heterosexual males.

Counterpoint: the original Alien movies were wildly successful with a female protagonist. Because Alien was actually a good franchise with a genre-defining first film and enjoyable sequels. Ripley was a woman, but that fact wasn't her primary defining characteristic, nor was the point of the movie "hey let's make a sci-fi film BUT WITH A WOMAN". A woman was also at the center of the Resident Evil movies, not as wildly successful but they still did pretty well before they started milking them to death.

In sci-fi, men don't really have trouble relating to female protagonists; the story just has to be good, or at least entertaining. It's when the story is shit, and especially when a "gurrrrl power" theme is shoehorned everywhere, that men specifically take their money elsewhere.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 10 points11 points  (9 children)

Good counterpoint indeed. Any other examples you can think of?

[–]Jigsus 22 points23 points  (1 child)

Terminator 2 is about a strong independent uber mom who will do anything for her kid. If that's not feminism I don't know what it is and it was the most successful of the franchise I (both critical acclaim and numbers). The focus shifted from the male terminator and the male action hero to the woman and people loved it. Why? Because it was fucking good.

[–]Jigsus 10 points11 points  (1 child)

A more recent example: the arrival. The main character is a woman and motherhood is a big plot point and that movie has no SJW agenda pushing at all. It was still and amazing movie.

[–]i_forget_my_userids 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Watched that on a flight last week and thought it was pretty well done. Ended weakly, but it was still pretty good overall.

[–]Jigsus 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Xena warrior princess. It was running right along the adventures of Hercules. Both were campy and had a great following sometimes with crossovers. Nobody got mad at Hercules although SJW did try to hijack the show.

At the same time we had Buffy the vampire slayer. Also a big hit.

[–]1OneRedYear 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Xena went a little SJW towards the end there. But it's ratings were falling anyway.

[–]Jigsus 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Just a few years ago we had the Galactica reboot. The number of strong female characters in that show is off the charts and aside from the last season that show rocked.

[–]Arroway2357 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So Say We All. I knew it was kinda gimmicky with the recasting of Starbuck as a woman, but Katee Sackhoff brought it. I appreciate good stories and well done characters, period. BSG was one of the single best series - science fiction or otherwise - of the 21st century.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Underworld was a sci-fi movie series featuring a strong independent woman (TM) with werewolves and vampires and all that shit women like, but it turned out to be a hit with the male sci-fi community

[–]madmike11 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Ghostbusters being an uber crappy movie also helped...

[–]DigitallyDisrupt 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Not just relating... But the shit is unbelievable many times. As males we know damn well women aren't fighters/heroes.

[–]1OneRedYear 2 points3 points  (0 children)

More so, White Heterosexual males. I'm black and I knew Ghostbusters Sheboot was going to flop. You can't just shit on white guy's beloved movies and comic franchises and expect them to still lap it up. They would be stupid if they did.

[–]webleytempest 12 points13 points  (2 children)

This is a good point about Star Wars.

Compare the difference between episode 7 and Rogue One. Both had female leads.

The female protagonist and her background/development in Rogue One is handled so much better. Rey seems too much like a Mary Sue, where for some reason, it's easier to accept and believe Jyn's background and knowledge/skills.

I really hope they make more like Rogue One, and less like episode 7, but I know it's wishful thinking.

[–]madmike11 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Take as an example Carl Johnson from GTA: San Andreas, people love that "heroe".

[–]prinzklaus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just you wait. The new Ocean's 8 movie is going to better than the original!. /s

[–]1DubbleFUPAwitCheez 125 points126 points  (26 children)

It's amazing the amount of money and personnel they have at their disposal and yet no one pointed out the blindly obvious. Who is arguably the most popular character in the Avengers movies? Tony Stark. He's also the least politically correct and most "misogynistic". The world loves alpha males.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 36 points37 points  (11 children)

It's amazing the amount of money and personnel they have at their disposal and yet no one pointed out the blindly obvious.


Also, Bioware fell for the same shit.

[–]VinylGuy420 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Oh dude Bioware went in deep. Mass Effect: Andromeda gave an option to change the games history, when referring to Mass Effect 1-3's main characters, into women.

[–]1EarthExile 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Meaning Shepherd, or everyone? It makes sense for Shepherd because you could play a man or woman

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This isn't new, in KotOR 2, you also have the option to retroactively define Revan as female.

Which is legitimate considering that you had the option to play Revan as either. The same goes for Shepard.

[–]patrice_plz_come_bac 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Also mad max 2. What a shitshow

[–]TryhardPantiesON 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Mad Max was a shit show, a strong woman who frees female slaves from a group of strong dominating males. And Mad Max is a weak characterization of a man.

[–]ajfeiz8326 55 points56 points  (9 children)

Yeah, I started liking Stark's character a lot less after he got his balls clipped by that blond bitch. Really? He made the secretary his own boss and CEO?

[–]Liberty_P 70 points71 points  (1 child)

He was too awesome. Marvel decided he needed a good cucking. They went full cuck mode on him in civil war making him the bastion of putting leashes on all the heroes.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana 55 points56 points  (3 children)

It was much better in the first movie.

Tony Stark has a one night stand with some random hot reporter and in the morning Pepper Potts comes in to kick her out. He delegated the awkward part of the one night stand to his assistant. That scene always brings a red pill tear to my eye.

"I do anything and everything Mr. Stark requires. Including occasionally taking out the trash. Will that be all?"

Edit: might as well add the video clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR4VDlEFWTk

[–]LordThunderbolt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

She was talking mad spicy in that scene.

[–]ajfeiz8326 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That scene is probably why they had to make her this high powered corporate figure/femme fatal with Tony's heart in a vice grip all at the same time in the following films. It was too much truth for Hollywood to stomach.

[–]5t3fan0 3 points4 points  (0 children)

yup, the first iron man movie is the best of them all!

[–]skepticallypessimist 9 points10 points  (1 child)

pretty sure shes a redhead

[–]gistaminute 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If you point out the obvious, HR comes to your desk and you pack your things and they replace you with somebody from their stack of diversity resumes. There is no discussion.

[–]WilliamBott 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Deadpool is pretty awesome too, and his movie did well at the box office. Wise-cracking, irreverent, foul-mouthed.

[–]1StoicCrane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People these days are conditioned to feed off of filth and degeneracy. It was expected.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well, that's what happens when your MBA and marketing programs start teaching social responsibility instead of basic business.

[–]F_Dingo 47 points48 points  (2 children)

No shit. This Marvel "executive" (aka total dope) should be fired.

A few weeks ago I strolled into a comic book store and decided to pick up a Marvel comic book (forgot which). I flipped through the pages and then found a real gem in it. One of the female characters was complaining about how her gender identity was assumed or something fucking dumb. At the time, I wasn't aware that Marvel was catering to pink haired nut jobs and said to myself "What the fuck is this shit doing in a comic book?!" I was totally bewildered by what I just read.

Hope Marvel learned their lesson.

[–]JF0909 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Marvel is owned by Disney. I wouldn't count on it.

[–]travtrigs 20 points21 points  (2 children)

This same thing is what happened with Mass Effect Andromeda

[–]bluedrygrass 8 points9 points  (0 children)

What a shitshow of a game! And the hordes of desperate people saying "actually it's my favourite game ever"...

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

The reason their sales suck is because they've abandoned diversity in story telling. When you pander to SJWs, all of your characters becoming exactly the same: quick-witted, edgy leftist prodigies who fight the patriarchy.

Fuck demographic diversity. The people want diversity of character.

[–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 14 points15 points  (5 children)

I want to see numbers. How much have sales declined? Percent, gross?

One can only hope they all go bankrupt. Like the ghostbusters movie.

And here we see the real motive:

They do bring in a different demographic, and I’m happy to see that money in my store.

[–]true_detective_sf points points [recovered]

Marvel sold to Disney for $4 billion in 2009.

They've made over $14 billion on marvel movies since then, with no signs of a slow down. Whatever pain there is on the comic side of things, the box office seems to be doing ok.

[–]CopybookHeadings 15 points16 points  (2 children)

True, but the comic book storylines that are now being translated to the big screen -- and succeeding wildly at the box office, were all written 10, 20, 30 years ago or more. In other words, long before the current crop of SJW writers entered employment (was going to say "infested," but that might be too unkind a term) with Marvel.

If Disney/Marvel is smart, they'll continue to mine the back issues for engaging storylines, because many (if not most) fans aren't exactly excited by what's being written and promoted by Marvel nowadays.

[–]Liberty_P 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Infested is about right. Possibly too kind. They are ruining the comics I grew up loving as a child and still love to this day.

Great point on the movies being based on old comics. If they were based on the new sjw stories it would not be pulling in crowds.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The box office is showing historical marvel characters: young heterosexual white male protagonists. The day marvel movies star mostly female black feminist superheroes, they will tank. Just like ghostbusters did.

[–]OneInAZillion 39 points40 points  (47 children)

I get it, and I agree.

Hell, I went to see the new Power Rangers and got a dose of it. One kid is autistic, one of the girls is a lesbian; multiple races represented, etc.

The PR's are the following races:

  • White guy (leader)

  • Black guy (Autistic)

  • Mixed girl (Lesbian)

  • Latin chick

  • Asian guy

Not that I have a problem with diversity, but when it's diversity for the sole fact of not offending or trying to be inclusive (I'm looking at you, Plus Sized Barbie), then it gets a little irritating.

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (10 children)

You do know that the original power rangers had a black guy, an Asian chick, and an in the closet gay guy?

[–]OneInAZillion 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Didn't know that. I stand mildly corrected. My point was that it felt like the diversity issue was being shoved down the viewer's throats. In this case I guess it's tradition but the examples in OP's post are spot on.

[–]saladon points points [recovered]

I forgot I wasn't on reddit's usual subs and was surprised to see how you're open-minded enough to admit it.

Your point still stands, though, and the reason the diversity in the old power rangers didn't feel out of place at all was how natural the casting and roles were. Case in point, you didn't even notice it.

[–]MisfitMind00 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean, Power Rangers did diversity before it was cool and they did it right.

[–]Newreddawn 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I haven't seen it yet but I'm pretty sure the black ranger isn't a black guy anymore. He's blue now I think? Lol.

[–]winterwheels21 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The blue ranger was in the closet!?

[–]RavelsBolero 6 points7 points  (1 child)

The blue ranger was in the closet!?

The actor was. I don't think the character was. I could be utterly wrong about that, though. I haven't seen it in ages.

[–]TryhardPantiesON 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You stand correct, the actor was indeed gay in the closet, but the character was portrayed as straight male.

In reality the actor suffered from harrasment for being gay, and eventually left the show.

[–]Liberty_P 10 points11 points  (1 child)

They made the black guy autistic? Seriously? Whelp I was going to check it out but now it's on the torrent list.

[–]OneInAZillion 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Not full on autistic - more like Aspergers I guess?

From the wikipedia page:

"It is the first blockbuster film to feature LGBTQ and autistic superheroes"

So obviously they're well aware of what they're doing..

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Wasn't PR more of a comedy, though?

[–]OneInAZillion 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I don't think it was intended that way, no.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As much as watching a mentally challenged, two legged cat trying to get itself off a frozen lake is comedy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (29 children)

The issue isn't diversity, it's representation. Coming from a minority who was born and raised in the US his entire life, I was told all throughout my childhood that I was an American despite my ancestors immigrating from Asia. Why is it so bad that I want to see someone who looks like me be represented in hollywood in a positive light? It's like i'm being told one thing but being shown something else.

[–]OneInAZillion 17 points18 points  (15 children)

I'm not white either - I just never experienced this issue. I've never really cared that my (brown) people be represented in movies/tv. I don't see it as racism or ignorance on the part of the evil white man. I just don't care. I can still enjoy it despite there not being any middle eastern superheros.

In your case, I get it. I see where you're coming from, but I just hate how it's so overplayed now in every capacity and how everyone just complains about every little thing nowadays:

  • Most of the main superheros are white men? Must be the white man trying to keep us down.

Response: Replacing white superheros with minorities or adding female versions (Black Spiderman, Thor Girl, etc.)

  • The original Ghostbusters cast was ALL MALE!??!?!?!!. Must be the white man trying to keep us down.

Response: Making an all-female remake. They're doing the same with Oceans 11.

  • No black people were nominated at the Oscars last year? Must be the white man trying to keep us down.

Response: Moonlight won a shitload of awards including Best Picture and Best Supporting Actor this year.

Everyone wants to have their sensitivities catered to and won't accept anything less.

I mean for fuck sakes, Hillary almost became president just because womyn, and she's a war criminal.

Like I said, I'm not white, but I just don't understand why complaining is everybody's go-to when every group isn't equally represented all the time.

Next thing you know it's going to be the same deal with mental illness. Hulk will have ADD, Thor will be bi-polar, Ironman will develop schizophrenia and Wonder Woman will have post-partum depression. It never ends because we're living in the world of the complainer. And in the world of the complainer, everyone seems to be bending over and giving them what they want.

[–]Swelfie 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Tony Stark has ADD. Classic case. Hulk much less so :)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (11 children)

I understand that argument as well but its not like hordes of women or blacks or gays are perpetually slaughtered or portrayed in a negative light. All im seeking is to have just as many positive representation for Asian men to at least equal the massive negative representation we get

[–]OneInAZillion 3 points4 points  (6 children)

massive negative representation we get

You'll have to elaborate on this for me. What do you mean?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Sure, historically asian men have been perpetually portrayed in the media as one of a several negative stereotypes

Individually, none of these movies do anything, it's just that there are literally hundreds of movies like these for everyone ONE "the walking dead" and "power rangers".

[–]bluedrygrass 3 points4 points  (4 children)

But there's even more of those roles filled by white people. It's actually a big reason of why "minorities" see white people as evil (when they do), because they see all villains in movies interpreted by white actors.

[–]Utterberetacht 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But those roles aren’t associated with being white are they?

[–]juliusstreicher 4 points5 points  (3 children)

If I were you, then I'd either produce my own movie to your specs, or else make it profitable for a real producer to make one to your specs. Can you think of another way to get others to do what you want?

[–]juliusstreicher 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Should we have Drunhlken Shaolin Master be portrayed by a white man?

To answer your question, look at a. Market, and b producers. Use an Asian producer to make movies that Asians want to see, dont try to coopt somebody else's work. If there was a profitable market, therewould be a product.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To me that question wouldn't even make sense because I, along with most Asian Americans, have been Americanized so we don't relate to the stereotypes of what Asian culture is supposed to personify. Just like how Black americans wouldn't understand it if every portrayal of black people were only of indigenous people from Africa or if every white american who's ancestors were from germany or england were portrayed solely with Nazi german or the monarchy. To us, people like Glenn from the walking dead make sense because his character is defined by his actions and not his race. He's seen as a person.

[–]dontputthebeerback points points [recovered]

Why do you let Hollywood's portrayal of an ethnicity affect your life?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Id like to meet a person whos life isnt affected by hollywood. Take for example hollywoods take on men being monstorous abusive husbands who will beat their children every time they get drunk. This affects you every time you have an argument with in a relationship where people will automatically assume ur guilt and ur girlfriends' innocence. Now imagine this was the only representation you ever got from hollywood. I dont have the luxury of pointing out 20 different positive asian male roles to counter all the shitty stereotypes that other people have internalized and placed on me. When Im out with my friends, i never get to be just a friend, i always have to be "that asian friend". If im dating a non asian girl, its always met with questions about "why is she dating an asian". Representation in the media affects people a lot more than you realize

[–]dontputthebeerback points points [recovered]

When Im out with my friends, i never get to be just a friend, i always have to be "that asian friend".

That's not very strange if you have a clear external attribute that is different from your friends. I'm still seen as a foreigner after 25 years, but as long as it's not used negatively, there's no reason to care about it.

So not like this, which sounds like racism:

If im dating a non asian girl, its always met with questions about "why is she dating an asian".

I'd like to go towards a world where we don't judge people by the colour of their skin, which is why I see social justice as a huge problem. It also means I'm against solutions which consist of calibrating the stereotypes of ethnicity x. For example, "let's represent asians more positively" or "let's represent white men more negatively".

[–]Utterberetacht 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hollywood is shit anyway. Too much blue for any red-pilled man.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Its not the female and minority characters that alienated the base, it was the feminist and other SJW propaganda that they started inserting awkwardly into their stories. Characters would literally fight the patriarchy

[–]1mojo_juju[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Characters would literally fight the patriarchy


That's even worse than seeing petite heroines beat up massive, brutal looking thugs. It's so unrealistic and I don't see how guys could possibly relate to it.

Women aren't "seen" as realistically violent or physically aggressive. It's not part of their nature to put themselves at risk like that. Hence it's just so goddamn dumb and unrealistic to see anywhere in media, a woman fighting a man and winning.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Going full left doesn't sell. Just ask ESPN.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Diversity should not be used for the sake of diversity. What's important is the story. Characters need to fit the story.

[–]DesignerTom 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Haha good. Shows what you get when you listen to the loud minority. SJWs don't want to buy comics, they just want control. Hopefully more people will stop listening to their power hungry demands.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They thought their typical demographic would be mostly intact with an acceptable decline at worst, and that branching out would tap into minority markets.

[–]greatslyfer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The market decides what it wants.

If you're in an Asian market, then your best bet is you guessed it, to star mainly Asian superheroes, but hey no SJW gets pissed when that happens, only when straight white males get put forward as protagonists that they go batshit crazy.

Point is, stop forcing racial diversity among characters cause it's a fucking comic book industry, why do they get so serious and rattled about this.

[–]Returnofthemack3 5 points6 points  (1 child)

lol no shit. 'Hey, our main fanbase consists of men, so let's 'rectify' that problem by shitting on them in an unsubtle and artless way in order to appeal to women, a group that accounts for less than 2 percent of total sales. WHAT COULD GO WRONG' - Marvel exec, probably

I don't even read comic books or watch superhero movies much, but come on. I read they changed the character of Thor to a woman who constantly spouts one liners about toxic masculinity and the pay gap. That's a good way to completely alienate your main source of income right there, and for what?

[–]RedditAdminsSuck_88 9 points10 points  (2 children)

The issue is that these producers, writers, etc. don't give a shit about sales or the box office. Even if it loses money or audiences, they don't care. It's worth it to them. It's about the message they are sending and the big picture.

This garbage will continued to be shoved down our throat. They will simply double down on it all.

[–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I was going to say this. I believe all of these media outlets are simply corporate (globalist) propaganda outlets. IF they can get you to pay for it, cool they make some profit. If not you still are exposed to their brainwashing. I believe pushing the agenda is the number 1 priority. Making money is second. These corporations could lose billions and still operate.

[–]mattizie 3 points4 points  (1 child)

They're going to keep doing it until it stops making them money, at which point they will 180 flip and go to the opposite extreme.

[–]2kevin32 4 points5 points  (3 children)

For those who don't read Marvel, here are a few examples for reference: (1, 2, 3 (NSFW)).

source for the second and third one.

[–]1mojo_juju[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nice, thx dude. I like how someone on the source twitter page mentions something about tumblr. Really though-- wtf is this, a comic, or some feminist tumblr page? Makes you wonder who is writing these piece of shit stories these days.

Those snaps show exactly wtf the problem is right there... I mean, the dude even references 'social justice warrior' and then he's beat up by a woman who is offended by the reference.

Jesus tittyfucking christ.

[–]goldnhorde 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The thing that pisses me off so much about the SJW hanging out at my local comic shop or even my local gamestop is they come in all high and mighty and want to start dictating what is right and wrong and start calling perfectly good people names in their usual ad hom bashing (the most bullying anti-bullies that intolerant tolerance demanders demand).

then when they get their way .... they walk right out the door without writing a check. they always leave a few behind to keep saying "that's just not enough ... that's just not enough ... that's just not enough" .... but they never leave a check.

and how diverse is diverse? it would seem that any straight white male characters is not diverse enough.

[–]yomo86 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The biggest problem with the SJW crowd - as you described the lazy and entitled - are that they are the loudest kids in the yard but strangely the ones with the least amount of funds. Pandering to them will alienate your nerdy kid - male of female - who just wants to see their favorite heroes or heroines on the big screen.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I remember when that Sarkeesian SJW chick complained about video games. Mortal Kombat went from dominatrix looking scantily clad hourglass figures chicks to burka/fully clothed chicks with average bodies. It's the trend now, and I still don't see women playing video games as much as men.

[–]scarletspider3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I really hate how Marvel is taking away all the sexy female costumes. I also noticed that they are putting too many women in charge.

[–]yummyluckycharms 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It was a poor business decision and they deserve to fail.

Frankly, I dont know what was going through their marketing division's mind given that there already were plenty of diverse characters in way back before the early 90's crash. To me, in conjunction with the increasing amount of reboots, it signalled that they were out of ideas and did a hail mary in a desperate attempt to stay solvent. Instead, it only hastened their decline.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's ironic how pandering to SJWs is identical to attempting to negotiate attraction, right down to the end result.

[–]1Entropy-7 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I have no problem with "diversity" IF IT FITS. I like female superheros and "people of colour", but it really gets me pissed when they shoe horn things.

I don't need to have characters with "lineage". I am from Toronto: black people are everywhere and 50% of those citizens are not born in Canada.

Back in the day I played paper and pencil RPGs. There was Dungeons and Dragons I played women and I played elves. But it was all about the story, the narrative, and how it hung together. I played a superhero game and one of my favorite characters was a woman.

But you can't force it. You have to let the story unfold naturally.

Making a character female, or black or gay or whatever, just because you have some agenda doesn't work. The story breaks down and fans hate that shit.

I am against a female Thor, but if any of you want to climb into the way back machine, Beta Ray Bill was a good change up.

[–]summersss 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If they didn't they would be hammered by media. The problem is not the diversity the problem is the pandering. Who wants to read volumes of author/artist screaming "hey look i'm Asian girl batman". Its obvious and insulting to all, including the demographic they are targeting. As a black man I rather see new superheroes.

[–]CrazedHyperion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it was a severe business miscalculation - of course they wanted to keep their core base, AND they wanted to expand their demographics to black, latino, gays, etc. by creating some such characters. However, now they realize you can't have it both ways, so, yes, back to Square One.

[–]InformalCriticism 2 points3 points  (0 children)

All of the professionals in the industry knew what it was doing, but couldn't stop it. They knew the ideas didn't sell, but didn't see a choice.

It's like the nag you used to get in the house now has a megaphone and the collective voices of millions of shrills that will blot out the sun! We must fight in the shade, brothers.

[–]TheRedStoic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is hilarious, as someone who has enjoyed comics and their media most of my life, to see every superhero group have at least one gay couple nowadays.

You realize they're like, only 4% of the population right? What are the odds that any random group of 6 individuals will have a guaranteed gay couple? Really? Hmm?

I don't have a problem with gays, I have a problem with misrepresenting source material to fit agendas.

Edit, u/snowiceolated is on the ball with this one. Even though I find miles morales to be a much more interesting Spiderman, mostly because he's not Peter Parker. He's a different character entirely.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)


this is a scary line, I'm surprised no one saw it:

“Until there’s public funding of comics, they are going to be subject to the demands of capitalism.”

I'm not comfortable with the idea of not having the publics interests (speaking with wallet) being the sole metric used to create things.

Marvel is a business, but it’s a business that attempts to sell comics to a demographic that has demonstrated a categorical, historical (and ultimately violent) disinterest in anything that is not built explicitly for them

People like what they like, this is all business. Until you find a company that doesn't follow 'the customer is always right' become successful, that won't change. Of course, if 'angry young white males' are the ones who captain america appeals to, who in their right mind would think adding an afro would instantly appeal to black youth?

For all this interest in capitalism and business, let me make something perfectly clear: if you do not make attempts to build an audience or if you do not respect the fact that your history with an audience has been particularly poor or if you make it difficult for an audience to buy your products, this audience will not buy your products. If you do all three, it will not be inclusivity that tanked your sales, but instead your flat-out poor business decisions.

It's odd how OP fucks up so many ideas of creative businesses, but seems to get the same point others here do. Create something for your demographic, don't co opt something else and shove it in there.

[–]2comment 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well... apparently these Marvel folks who are so interested in social justice & minority/female incorporation, misjudged the appreciation they would receive from the SJW crowd and the economy at large.

Eh, it's just Ghostbusters all over again, know your audience. They basically forgot that noncomic book readers don't turn into comic book readers just because they tweak the hero's identity.

For women, they'd basically have to change the storyline into endless personal dramas and rom-coms.... and in the process lose their entire existing audience and maybe gain a few women but not enough.

Marvel would have been much better off trying to do a female focused comic from the start as an experiment, just like Cathy was a (postwall) female focused comic strip from the start.

[–]thetotalpackage7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not.” ...still can't admit what the hard data and fans are telling him. What a pussy.

[–]Conceited-Monkey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In light of the audience for comics and superhero films, it stands to reason that transgender, gay, and African-American superhero characters would likely not resonate much. Wonder woman or Batgirl likewise would probably not have as an avid a following if they were both flat chested, and 40 pounds over their ideal weight. Imagine if Scarlett Johansen's character was played by Melissa McCarthy? I doubt this would help much at the box office.

[–]harsha_hs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I saw Indian/Pakistani actor born and raised in UK complaining how the UK television is full of whites and no scope for other races and no diversity etc etc.

Well, he should realize he can't play either the role of Winston Churchill or role of countryside English man.

He'd be better off playing young Mahatma Gandhi in south Africa but that won't give him much movies or shows.

[–]enkae7317 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The whole "diversity" and "racial representation" reeks of SJW stink. I understand making a female character because she's unique and interesting but changing your way of doing things to pander to one crowd isn't going to help you.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

ESPN is learning this the hard way too. Part of me feels bad for Star Wars and comic fans. They have been loyal for decades despite being shat on for society. You younguns might not remember but Star Wars fans were basically a ridiculed group of pasty, white, sexless, virgin losers (or at least that's how they were branded). Comic book fans are similar

And what's their reward? Being betrayed by their brands. Even worse - they are labeled as racists and sexists and pushed aside as society now has deemed these pieces of media as cool and trendy

[–]1edwardhwhite 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They were trying to expand their market. They over did it.

[–]10xdada 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Clearly you are all to young to remember Handyman:


Handyman is not the hero Marvel wants, but he's the hero it needs.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Originally Marvel and DC simply used female versions of male characters, in the same way ancient cultures used female versions of male first names (Edward - Edwina, Justin - Justina, Donald - Donna, Shaun - Shauna, Henry - Henrietta) . The comics used Shehulk, supergirl, Spiderwoman. Now they are going the same route as the movies with Mary Sue characters. It will not workas they have already found out. Pathetic.

[–]selfsufficientnigga 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lol, there was one page of these SJW'd comics making rounds here some time ago, where the female superhero is mentioning TheRedPill by name as bad guys. Can someone link it?

[–]SouloftheVoid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The problem wasn't that the super heroes were black or female. We've had black super heroes for a while now: Luke Cage, Blade, Black Panther, and Storm to name a few. The problem was that they took existing super heroes who already had a race and a gender (always white and usually male) and changed at least one of those things to promote "diversity" or whatever social justice warrior bullshit so they could pander to feminazi cunts who don't even like comic books anyway, not that it stops them from complaining about them. So they take Thor, who has been in the public domain for centuries as a Norse god, and make him female!? How does that make any sort of sense?

At least existing black super heroes made sense: Luke Cage tries to clean up the ghetto, Black Panther and Storm are from Africa. These changes they made to the white super heroes were cringe-worthy.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Lol that shit is everywhere nowadays, if you want to put faggots in your media at least make new characters, the moment I saw penguin was made a faggot on gotham tv show I alt-f4ed to never watch it again, couple of days ago, burnt man of Legion had a gay husband and a fat black kid adopted, they gave them around %20 screen time just hugging and doing family shit. Why the fuck you show me fag life just to show me fags do have lives? Fuck it, not gonna watch it either.

load more comments (14 replies)