Men's Rights"Young Americans Are Killing Marriage: Millennials are lagging behind on the traditional markers of adulthood" (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Young Americans Are Killing Marriage: Millennials are lagging behind on the traditional markers of adulthood has interesting data:

In 1980, two-thirds of 25- to 34-year-olds were already married. One in eight had already been married and divorced. In 2015, just two in five millennials were married, and only 7 percent had been divorced.

Baby boomers' eagerness to get married meant they were far more likely than today's young people to live on their own. Anderson looked at the share of each generation living independently, either as heads of their own household or in married couples.

The author says that "There's no shortage of theories as to how and why today's young people differ from their parents," but I think the low marriage rate has a simpler explanation: a lot of guys have wised up to how fucking crazily dangerous it is to get married.

I've written about its dangers before on this account or in the original denver_luv account, so you can read more there. Or you can read Real World Divorce, which explains just how costly and disgusting real-world divorce is. Smart guys look around at what happens to the other men around them and don't get married.

I see the marriage market as composed of two large groups, with some guys on the margin: The first group is guys who do well with women and don't have any problems getting laid or finding girlfriends. For them, there's no reason to get married even though lots of women want to marry them.

The second group is a larger pool of guys who would get married, but most women don't like them much and won't marry them, or will marry and then divorce them. Many of you probably were those guys at one point in time (I wasn't quite that bad, though I've made my share of errors).

Guys with solid game and some grasp of the cultural and legal climate won't bother marrying. Guys without it will want to but women often find them repulsive. Then women lament about how they can't find "eligible" men who want to marry. No shit. I wonder why.

[–]Modredpillschool[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (17 children)

You can have a LTR and start a family. But dear jesus never get fucking married. You have been warned.

[–]Five_Decades 163 points164 points  (19 children)

It is probably a mix of reasons.

Millennials have witnessed how unhappy and financially dangerous marriage can be
Millennials are more financially insecure and cannot make the big commitments of their parents (owning a home, being married, having children).
Women's standards have skyrocketed due to internet dating and now they only consider ~20% of men marriage material.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (1 child)

You're leaving out feminism and sexual liberation, sex was once hard to get and divorce was frowned upon. Sex and divorce are both easier to get.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

To be fair, sex was easy to obtain for men via prostitution in many places before Puritanical modesty relegated it as a career that needed to be regulated and banned. There's a reason they call it "the oldest profession in the world."

Marriage was almost always a political arrangement until modern times, when "love" suddenly became the driving factor, rather than uniting two families and their financial assets through political agreement, strengthened by the birth of children to ensure the longevity of the agreement.

[–]solidtwerks 56 points57 points  (14 children)

financially dangerous

This is key. There is no reason for a woman not to get married. If shes not happy she'll get a divorce and take half.

I believe the bigger cause is that women are more independent these days. Which I'm not against. I'm all for equal rights. It just changed the dynamic between men and women over time.

I do, however, believe it's time to change how divorce affects men. If a woman wants a divorce she should be expected to be able to financially support herself and her kids. If she can not financially care for the children then the man should be able to keep the kids. Equal rights.

[–]Roaring40sUK 22 points23 points  (5 children)

I believe the bigger cause is that women are more independent these days.

No! The ride the CC and say they are more independent, cos it sounds good and all growd up.. until the wall looms... Then its time to find a "life partner" "Walking Wallet".

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Looks like he bought into the Strong Independent Woman (TM) lie used to sell their promiscuity riding the CC as something undeserving of shame.

Once you've been exposed to the truth, you can't look back. Some slut cheated on her overbearing and jealous boyfriend with me a couple years back. Her reasoning was, and I quote, "I'm a strong independent woman who doesn't need to be tied down by one man."

[–]Roaring40sUK 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Looks like he bought into the Strong Independent Woman (TM)

Yes, I think he might be in the wrong place..

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is what makes sense, especially when both have a full time job.

[–]everyone_wins 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Or at least an equal share of custody. Nowadays the best custody deal a man will get is weekends. I think it should be six months with mom, six months with dad.

[–]mr_perfect1 points points [recovered]

I just got 50/50. You just have to stand up for yourself in court

[–]everyone_wins 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's good to know. Congrats on not getting fucked out of custody.

[–]Awake-Now 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As did I. This is increasingly the case, thankfully.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

marriage has become INCREASINGLY dangerous over the past 40 years. Of course the boomers were less hesitant

[–]jackandjill22 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There's plenty of reasons this is happening, plenty.

[–]sirspeedy99 72 points73 points  (15 children)

My folks are having their 50th anniversary this year. Got the American dream and all that, and Happy as they come.... do I expect this? Nope. But I will be happy.

[–]RiseReadRiseRed 197 points198 points  (38 children)

The title should read "young American women and the State are killing marriage"

Men who are aware of the current American political climate don't get married, unless they know they can afford the divorce that will most likely result.

Enjoy the decline

[–]Mckallidon 77 points78 points  (34 children)

Only one dude I know has successfully married. She was a virgin.

[–]Appleseed12333 49 points50 points  (0 children)

There was one marriage when I was growing that succeeded. I mean succeeded as in lasting untill the kids are 18. They celebrated their 50th and the wife died of old age shortly after. Goes without saying, both were virgins.

[–][deleted] 56 points57 points  (23 children)

Even virgins are no longer safe. With social media constantly telling them that they missed out on their youth and nonsense

[–]mofono 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Virginity is nothing special. All women are capable of divorce raping you. If you give a gun to a someone and tell them not to shoot you yet keep provoking them, their being a virgin will make no difference. You're going to die.

[–]FatStig points points [recovered]

Virginity is nothing special.

Wrong. Each partner a woman has roughly halves her capacity to pairbond. When that bond forms they do not want to divorce.

[–]asktrpthrow123 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Pretty much. The party/hookup culture paired up with social media and feminism has desecrated any hope for most stable long-term relationships/marriages.

[–]Mckallidon 15 points16 points  (17 children)

Plus Liberals trying to normalize pedophile behavior.

[–]Omnibrad 6 points7 points  (14 children)

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (13 children)

That's disgusting. Didn't even bother reading it. I remember an article on that shit site, Salon about the pedophile who was pretty much saying he wasn't a monster.

[–]fackdack 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Salon about the pedophile who was pretty much saying he wasn't a monster.

He may not be. These days being attracted to 15/16 year olds gets you labeled a pedophile. If you are attracted to girls who are biologically adults, you are not a pedophile.

A truth that the majority of people, even on this sub, will never understand: A woman is most attractive when is ~16, basically the instant she is done puberty

[–]metalhead4 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Bullshit. Women are most attractive when they leave their puberty teen baby face behind which is around their early 20s.

[–]fackdack 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Try again, neotony is what makes a female face attractive.

[–]Dontwriteher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And when they've already accumulated most of their STDs

[–]1GroundhogLiberator 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Lol Salon took that article down just so they could bash Milo during his controversy a few months back.

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points  (5 children)

That really does make all the difference.

[–]BaddyHitty points points [recovered]

Ancient wisdom doesn't spring out of nowhere. It comes from 10s of thousands of years of empirical evidence of human behaviour. Our current system comes from theory (literally concepts created out of thin air by blue-haired SJWs).

[–]Rubberlemons 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Did you just assume my hair colour?

[–]Actanonverba11 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Pretty much. And they are so rare these days, a lot of us don't even bother. Women are encouraged to ride the CC these days, to the detriment of society.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

that is a better title. It is like owning a dangerous pet. It's fun if you know how to lead and manage them, but stupid if you don't know how. then again going to the zoo and seeing the dangerous beast and then leaving is also a good way to deal with them.

[–]PaulMurrayCbr points points [recovered]

"t’s easy to look at these figures and say millennials are lagging behind their boomer parents. However, even as young Americans delay marriage, kids, and homeownership, they're ahead of their parents by one measure: education. "

LOL. Mainly because the finance industry has worked out that they can get people on the debt treadmill for life by saying "You don't have to face the adult world just yet! Here: take one of our e-z loans and spend another four years in school!"

Subtract all the majors in feminist dance therapy from those "education" figures, and see how well the millennials stack up.

[–]helicopter_kin points points [recovered]

And the value of college degrees has eroded now that everyone is getting one. There was a part time furniture sales job in my town asking for 2 years or more of college...

[–]THEDICKDEALER 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Damn that is bs and I should since I have a bs

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

People also don't understand how much these loans are fucking up everything. It's off topic for here but I feel like mentioning it. Those banks are literally printing money when they make those loans (literally because money is just numbers in a bank account now). So that money you work hard to earn, just printed freely by the corporations that run your banking system.

[–]reckful994 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's not simply "feminist dance therapy". I would contend that virtually all the liberal arts do not require anything more sophisticated than an associates from a decent community college.

For difficult fields such as electrical engineering, physics, or comp science, its absolutely required.

[–]widec 266 points267 points  (167 children)

I disagree with the articles title. Baby boomers killed marriage. They started a movement for free love when they went to college, and that has evolved to the branch of feminism where people believe women should be having sex without consequences.

But what really pisses me off is how the older generations have fucked up our economy. We are now reliant on low interest rates and massive loans just to live a normal lifestyle. The debt ceiling is 20 trillion and will need to rise this year. Millennials are broke due to low wages and insane student loans, so it doesn't make sense for them to settle down. The middle class is evaporating, you can't just graduate high school and get a decent full time job in most areas.

[–]Vioret points points [recovered]

Did I hear someone mention the Best Generation?

The boomers lived off the backs of women who starved in the dustbowl and men who died on the beaches of Okinawa. They walked through post offices and amongst cathedral forests built and tended by their parents. Their homes were flush with cash from war bonds and the blessings of an industrial-economic utopia that was peerless for decades amongst smoldering empires.

They bathed themselves in sex, drugs, rock and roll, and dodged the draft, and now they're waging war on love, on drugs, on "copyright infringement", and topping it off by sending our all-volunteer soldiers to their deaths to fight terror itself.

But no, clearly everyone that came after them is the problem.

[–]brinkleybuzz 119 points120 points  (22 children)

Baby boomers also brought us the expansion of no fault divorce. Women with impaired pair bonding ability + no fault divorce makes marriage a bad deal for the average man.

[–][deleted] 74 points75 points  (16 children)

No fault isn't the issue. Men cheat on their wives all the time. No need for a judge to go "Oh, he's a cheater, give the woman all the stuff."

Having someone take half your shit is. And alimony. "Oh, you need to support me, because I'm a women." All bullshit.

Alimony is sexist bullshit.

[–]muh_posts 39 points40 points  (1 child)

No fault isn't the issue. Men cheat on their wives all the time. No need for a judge to go "Oh, he's a cheater, give the woman all the stuff."

Yeah instead, it's "Oh, she's a cheater, give her all the stuff and make him pay for the children she had with the other guy."

[–]TheRealMouseRat 10 points11 points  (0 children)

yea. the hippies introduced the free love stuff, which we all (mostly) have been raised by. the old fashioned institution of marriage does not fit in with the world of freedom which we have today.

[–]thechaosz 29 points30 points  (1 child)

Woman cheat all the time as well

[–]brinkleybuzz 7 points8 points  (0 children)

No fault divorce + alimony + child support = jackpot for women who don't have to do a damn thing for the men they marry.

[–]OmegaMan2 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I would dispute that assertion. While this is anecdotal, the men I know who are loyal to their wives and more importantly are men and not metro-sexual Twirps or betas are still married. Mind you they are of an older generation where honour and commitment actually meant something.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Could be survivor bias. You don't see their friends who've gotten divorced over the years - like this chart shows. See: 1970s divorces.


And honor and commitment still mean something to a lot of people today. Divorce has gone down (same graph) - because people don't get married (as often) over social pressures or just to have a fuck.

[–]Omnibrad 3 points4 points  (2 children)

No fault isn't the issue. Men cheat on their wives all the time. No need for a judge to go "Oh, he's a cheater, give the woman all the stuff."

No fault is an issue, even if you want to think there is only "the" issue. Lazy thinking there.

[–]no1nose points points [recovered]

Agreed. Only a foolish man would get married.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Baby boomers are more or less guilty of everything that is bad.

House prices, deterioration of communities, politicization of everything, degenerative ideas since they had too much time and passing them on their kids...

[–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 84 points85 points  (46 children)

The baby boomers fucked everyone. Illegal immigration, feminism, radical liberalism, globalism, etc etc.

I try not to blame them so badly though as they had limited access to information and they had no examples about how these ideologies would fail us all.

However, now we have the Internet. We have the concept of being RedPilled. There are no more excuses. It is now our watch even if we did inherit quite a mess.

[–]derkoff 37 points38 points  (12 children)

Too bad for the next generation that most of us are just here to "enjoy the decline". Imagine the shit they'll say about us. No way are they cutting us any slack for getting dicked by baby boomers.

[–]CrashXXL 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I, too, like watching the world burn.

[–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I agree. It comes from a center of hopelessness and powerlessness.

But remember they say it is darkest just before dawn. And all of those "enjoy the decline" are really a silent majority. Watch their attitude quickly change when we see hope again.

[–]mofono 2 points3 points  (1 child)

There is no hope. Even if feminism is destroyed, a tradcon lifestyle will only reduce you into a human ATM. MGTOW is the only option. A MGTOW lifestyle guarantees prosperity, freedom, and tranquility.

[–]asktrpthrow123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no hope.

For our generation, probably not. Hopefully the future generations, something will happen to shift the balance back in right direction.

[–]neetpepe 10 points11 points  (7 children)

Wrap it up or go MGTOW. There doesn't need to be a next generation.

[–]asktrpthrow123 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"Enjoy the decline" works for us as individuals but there's a bigger problem. If "redpill" dudes don't have kids, the cucks will, and the next generation of kids will contain even more cucks, and so on. Eventually, who knows, maybe the feminine imperative will stop men from voting and God knows what.

On the bright side, we'll be dead by then and we don't have to deal with that shit, but society will generally be fucked.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Are you Jewish by any chance?

[–]CQC3 66 points67 points  (30 children)

I don't know about you, but I really don't care for the whole "enjoy the decline" sentiment around here. I get it, it means don't fret it and focus on yourself. But it has a self destructive tone to it that I really don't buy into.

Focus on yourself, make yourself number one, handle your needs, you can do those things without trying to let society burn. Don't take it all on your back, just do what needs to be done for you and let whatever terrible shit that has to go down occur. If you don't want to get married don't, if you do, do so and be the best father you can be.

Marriage is about children, not about having a wife. That's my take on that, it's a way of leaving the place better than you found it. Raise strong and responsible kids, it's probably the most noble thing you can do.

Speaking generally: If that's not your thing, just try not to fuck shit up for everyone else while you're living it up. Don't want to paint a target on your back similar to figures fighting the good fight in the public sphere? Understandable, but once it becomes more "acceptable" to speak up, you better fuckin' speak up. Especially if it costs you little. Currently, it costs too much to speak up against a lot of this shit, but I sense that is changing.

[–]Returnofthemack3 39 points40 points  (8 children)

yeah, while I agree you should live as stoically as possible, it's dumb to pretend you can 'enjoy' the decline. Fuck that. The decline of society and culture is tragic as fuck, and I find no enjoyment in it.

[–]1OneRedYear 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You can cry or laugh but it doesn't change shit. So you choose how you react to an unraveling world that you have no power over. I personally don't give a shit about the world any more. I'm old. All I care about is myself. I learned the lessons of the Boomers well. Gen X, Boomergate Part Duex, Fuck You Pay Me!

[–]CQC3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think your post is a good example to say: that's fine.

My guess is that most people care more than they think they do--to varying levels. If you truly don't care, it's best that you stick to that. There's really no use in people being forced to do shit they don't believe in ya know?

I'll choose to react differently, but my point is that it's not a sacrificial play for me, it's just what I'm most comfortable with.

Enjoy yourself.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I agree; that sentiment is echoed by people still deep in the rage stage. The decline saddens me, like the last indian watching his beautiful land littered and paved....

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree but I see no solutions

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 21 points22 points  (6 children)

Go ahead, follow that youthful optimism. Assume you can make the world a better place.

You have two options. First get lucky be in the right place so you can be Bill Gates or Elon Musk and you can afford to change the world.

Or make the world better for you. I learned from experience that the world will just take from you and not get any better.

You know the old saying, change what you can and accept what you can't. Well you're not going to change much for the rest of us unless you're the next Gates or Musk.

[–]CQC3 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I get what you're saying, but I think you misunderstood me a bit. I'm not really trying to make the world a better place as a goal. I believe that the most anyone can do is just do what they can in their own life, you don't do it for a greater whole, you do it for yourself, for your family, for your friends.

People try to focus too much on making big changes in the world--which is still admirable, but you can't do that if your own life is fucked up. Build a good base. My goals are small. I'll enjoy my life, nurture the values important to me and do my best to pass those on along with a thirst for life. The goal was never to change anything for anyone but myself, but in doing that I really do believe those things set off subtle reactions. It may not seem like much, but why cry about not being able to change the world when you couldn't even bother to put effort into changing your home, or your neighborhood?

It's like people who obsessively focus on the national election, but can't even fucking bother to be concerned about local politics which affect them just as much if not more on a daily level.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nah, we're on the same page but looking at it from different angles.

Part of it is like in a commercial plane, they say put your own mask on before helping others, you're no good to anyone if you're not capable. Take care of yourself first. But the other side is that if the wing was ripped off the plane, even if you're the world's greatest pilot nothing you can do will change the inevitable. Some things you can influence, others are well beyond you.

Thinking you can change everything is naive delusion.

[–]everyone_wins 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree with you. I want to have children so that I can leave a legacy behind. I also want to give someone the gift of life. And not just any life, a good life. Many men father children, but fewer actually raise their children and give them what they need to become strong adults. It's sad. My brother and I were talking about some of his girlfriends and how fucked up their fathers were. I want to be a good dad and marriage is the first step.

[–]cbfmakinganame 15 points16 points  (12 children)

Exactly. The bit where the article says that baby boomers were more likely to live on their own in preparation for marriage is something I disagree with.

Most of my mates and I would love to move out if we could, but prices are so fucked in Australia that it's just not feasible. Prices a few decades ago however were piss cheap.

[–]Wecoan 10 points11 points  (9 children)

I like in the UK and this is absolutely the truth here. My parents who married in their late teens bought their first house for £17,500. A 3 bedroom semi-detached with front and back garden in an OK'ish area. That same house went on sale two years ago at £148,000. Now compare that to the wages then and today, my dad was a factory worker earning £120 a week in the late 80's while a similar job today nets around £240 a week.

[–]cbfmakinganame 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Precisely. My dad bought his first house at 21 with 2 years of saving and working. That is incomprehensible for us.

[–]KV-n 2 points3 points  (2 children)

it really is. can anybody eksplain why is it housing prices that skyrocketed so much compared to other shit?

There being a finite space in any given area is certainly a factor coz it makes supply more or less fiksed, but the demand should be weaker than it used to be shouldnt it? There is fewer young people looking for homes than there used to be + we are piss poor.

Maybe its because of urbanization? there is weaker demand overall but much more concentrated to some areas?

[–]InternetHateDevice 4 points5 points  (0 children)

can anybody eksplain why is it housing prices that skyrocketed so much compared to other shit?

Government intervention into the housing market combined with a ton of regulations and barriers to entry. When we see stagnant or skyrocketing prices even though technology has increased, we need to look no further than the government. Same exact thing is happening with education.

[–]mofono 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Who cares? If you live with your parents consider yourself lucky. No rent to pay. Invest all your money instead. Buy an investment property. Buy bank shares. Stop complaining and start doing. Never date, never marry, never have children. This will free up cash flow and allow you to invest and retire early.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ditto in Canada, don't need to bore you with the details

[–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't worry. If you won't work for that wage they will bring in someone that will.

And that someone will live with 5 brothers and 15 kids in that 3 BR house.

Your "standards" are too privileged.

[–]mofono 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Owning a home and moving out means nothing. This article is just trying to shame men into being slaves. When you move out of your parents home you are forced to get a mortgage and buy a house and be in massive debt to the bank and not have any rental income to cover the mortgage interest. Just stay at home with your parents, pay nothing, and invest all your money by leveraging into investment property or index funds. Women don't want to marry you becsuse you live with your parents? Fuck them! Do you live for female validation? You are not a slave. Go MGTOW.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

True, but I don't live with my parents for other reasons than what I think of women. I prefer my own freedom.

[–]Darkone06 52 points53 points  (15 children)

Thank you.

It's the economy, stupid.

I don't understand why it is so taboo to say that the global economy collapse in 2008 and we are the new depression generation.

They want to spend all day debating all this bullshit when it's simple, the middle class disappear and most millennials never had anything to lose but instead got fucked in a decade where there wasn't anything to gain.

The average American doesn't have an extra $500 to deal with an emergency. We can't handle getting sick or having a car breaking down on us let alone money to buy a fancy rock and party, let alone the financial obligations that come with having a kid.

Fuck that shit.

This isn't even getting in to the bullshit that is most women not being worth shit now.

[–]OmegaMan2 24 points25 points  (1 child)

Despite the media lies, a great many people have never recovered from the Crash of 2008. The invented economic stats were designed for one thing and one thing only and that was to hide the extent of the devastation in jobs, manufacturing and other economic indicators. The aim of course being to prop up the Obama regime and prevent that charlatan from being turfed.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yeah but it's not nearly as bad as the Great Depression, although it could possible get there

[–]sweetleef 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The only difference from 1929 is that technology and more sophisticated management allowed them to keep the banks in business and avoid a total lockup through various schemes, QE, ZIRP, TARP, etc.

At best, they've stretched out the correction period, and we're following Japan's lead through neverending recession; at worst, they've only multiplied the force of the real crash when it comes.

[–]Askolei 10 points11 points  (2 children)

There was a time when you could have a functional household with only one worker. Marriage made more sense then.

[–]CQC3 22 points23 points  (13 children)

I can't disagree the baby boomers did a lot of that shit. But a lot of that shit sounded amazing at the time on paper, so what the fuck are you going to do? Start beating the shit out of the elderly?

I'm talking about the culture stuff by the way, the financial aspect is really worse because people had to have known that they were taking temporary measures for their benefit with long term issues they wouldn't have to contend with.

It might be a shitty time to be a man, but conversely was there a period before where you could fuck so many girls? Guys have always wanted to fuck a ton of chicks, and in the past pretty much nobody had it great in terms of sexual strategy except maybe just in the decades before ours.

I used to worry about this shit, and I still kind of do, but one thing I know is that time will tell better than any of our shit posts. No amount of snark or told ya so's are going to hit nearly as hard as time will when this sort of cultural perception of how males and females "are" and how they engage with one another falls out of favor.

This wave of feminism will usher in a bunch of victims who at the latter stages of life will realize it was all complete and utter garbage, be filled with resentment and bitterness. This isn't even a revenge fantasy of mine, it's just what will happen.

It's easy to get wrapped up in the hype of anything, but once it's gone you see what has transpired. When these women end up in completely unsatisfying relationships from cashing out too late or never cashing out at all, they'll be hell to pay for them. They lost something they can never get back.

[–]TheRiseAndFall 12 points13 points  (10 children)

I agree with you. Many of us are doing the same thing today. Most smart people are not marrying or having kids. While it is the better sounding decision in today's shity society and economy, this is going to heavily fuck over the next generation that will be filled with a disproportionate amount of children of shitty, dumber parents. The generation will also be even smaller and have to shoulder the burden of supporting the comparatively larger retiring generation before them, just as millenials will have to support the baby boomers.

[–]widec 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Why do you think there's such a big push for immigration in first world countries? Pension plans rely on a growing population to be solvent. It's funny how decades ago we were being told not to have more children, it was selfish and bad for the planet. Now we need to source that tax paying population from somewhere.

[–]t12totalxyzb00 points points [recovered]

Europe found a solution.

Import incapable, unteachable, thickheaded violent analphabetic terrorists.

[–]OmegaMan2 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Crime in Germany is through the roof. What is really sad is that Mutti Merkel is cracking down on anything which is derogatory of the migrants

[–]t12totalxyzb00 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I'm German. I have no hope anymore. This will mean war sometime in the future. May god help us, we have no men left

[–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Exactly. You think fake news is bad here.

There they'll literally put you in jail for speaking out.

Their papers don't even report the stories.

[–]TheRiseAndFall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But the immigrants they are trying to ship in are making shit wages and end up only being a bigger burden on our society.

[–]mofono 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Don't be fooled into the "normal lifestyle" of getting a mortgage, massive house, a wife, luxury car, and two children. This is financially irresponsible and a trap set to enslave you. Go MGTOW, live a frugal minimalist lifestyle and invest your money so you can be financially independent.

[–]AladdinHussein 16 points17 points  (11 children)

Can't just graduate college*

[–]widec 51 points52 points  (10 children)

The more we push college for everyone, the further those degrees become devalued. It's hard for employers to distunguish who went to college to increase their knowledge and who went for a piece of paper.

The best routes now for young men are merit based jobs like sales or the trades. If you are very intelligent, a stem program in college would be your best bet.

[–]Mckallidon 21 points22 points  (8 children)

Except for top tier schools, college has been dumbed down HAM. And, STEM is being flooded with female instructors which is horrible. I believe that the only reason high school sucks is because of women. Otherwise it would just be dudes bettering themselves instead of contending with horseshit.

[–]widec 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I took compsci for a year and it was still decent. Much more results oriented than an arts or business program, and over 95% of the class was men.

I have a bone to pick with diversity hiring however. I don't want to take lessons from people speaking in broken English! Very hard to follow your instructor that way.

[–]Bibleisproslavery 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I mean women in STEM, isn't horrible. It's having unqualified people in STEM that'd the problem, whoever they may be.

[–]Mckallidon 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Female instructors are awful in my experience.

[–]Bibleisproslavery 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I suppose we have had different experiences. I have had bad women and men as instructors, but I have also had fantastic women and men teach me a variety of STEM and other subjects.

It is the exception rather than the rule that instructors are bad, though I don't know where/what experience you have had.

[–]Mckallidon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My experience has usually been that females have way less actual experience and are career instructors. And that they're not as thorough, challenging or structured. Just me though.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah college is dumb as fuck now that the masses have flooded it

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I dunno, autistic dudes who are professors can be BRILLIANT but they don't have any social or good explaining skills.

Women, as long as they aren't the mean shrill bitch ones, are pretty good instructors honestly. I haven't had any bad women instructors, unless they had bad Engrish.

[–]Returnofthemack3 7 points8 points  (0 children)

yeah seriously. In my experience at a top state school, the STEM instructors that were female were fucking great, albeit rare. They were mostly ugly bull dyke looking types, so not exactly the type of vacuous slut that you see in gender studies or anything.

[–]Bibleisproslavery 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well in the Us-private debt culture yeah.

Most other Western nations subsidise /Cover or publicly index uni debts so that the youth can pursue education and work without crippling lifelong debt.

[–]1ozaku7 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well, for a it takes a man for a woman to have sex. If everyone would fuck everyone, we would all have the same n-count of let's say 100. The men are all king for having fucked so much and the women are all sluts for having fucked so much. I mean, be the guy that fucks alot, and fucks alot more than the women he has. That's all there is to it, it's just a numbers game. If you have an n-count in the single digits and the women around you have double digits, you're just a loser.

[–]Zebleblic 54 points55 points  (33 children)

Let's be honest here. Large student debts, housing prices, and low wages are more of a factor than anything. Having to move across country for work and not being able to settle down makes it very difficult to get married and have kids. I think that has more to do with it than anything else.

[–]Pastelitomaracucho 27 points28 points  (20 children)

This is an important observation that I also see in Europe.

People are on a perpetual migration, changing cities as they look for jobs. It's rather common to see friendships and relationships being strained by distance as people must keep moving. The idea of settling down is, for many, far to achieve.

The economy is not only to blame, but career expectations play a factor. People are not attracted to the idea of having a life long career inside a company. People want to keep changing jobs chasing higher positions by moving from job to job.

The decline of marriage to me is a huge combination of factors, but the bottom line is that marriage is just more and more incompatible with current standards of living.

Also fuck it, I'm not going to risk it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself 10 points11 points  (0 children)

People want to keep changing jobs chasing higher positions by moving from job to job.

Another factor is these companies won't give you a promotion or raise unless you are coming in as a new hire. In other words, you have to change jobs to move up in the world now. Part of the blame is baby boomers refusing to retire, which disrupts the natural upward mobility in a company.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children)

People are not attracted to the idea of having a life long career inside a company.

It's not just this, but loyalty doesn't exist towards employees anymore. Think about how companies can literally get rid of an employee through no fault of their own, or pay them shit wages. They also got rid of pensions a while back. Many companies don't give good yearly raises.

[–]SouloftheVoid 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Every year an employer doesn't give you a raise that AT LEAST matches inflation they have really given you a pay cut.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Wow, that's an interesting way of putting things. It's why employees tend to job hop. They find that in many cases no matter how good they are, they get their biggest pay raise through finding a new job at a different company.

[–]EminemLovesGrapes 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's not just that they WANT to move from job to job, but many of the jobs that are offered par time and on such weird times that you usually have to.

[–]yomo86 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Besides, name one company other then blue chips, which aim to employ a person for more than 4 years.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Exactly. You can't expect employees to stay loyal at one company when the only way to get a decent raise and move up is by job hopping. Also, companies can get rid of employees for almost any reason.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

People want to keep changing jobs chasing higher positions by moving from job to job.

I'm very ambitious and have been grinding for a while to get where I am but settling down (even if less money is being made) looks like real luxury. Call a place your home. Develop habits with local people. Live with a LTR, not necessarily wedlock obv.

I know it sounds boring during the early 20s but then people realize constantly moving places isn't fulfilling.

[–]ktchong 13 points14 points  (3 children)

It's the same reason why young people in Japan are not getting married: they are broke and struggling.

[–]jackandjill22 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've lived in Tokyo, it's also the women. Japanese just have more backbone to go MGTOW & kick them to the curb. & theirs aren't halve as feminists as ours.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Having to move across country for work and not being able to settle down makes it very difficult to get married and have kids.

Pretty much, I'm 25 yet probably in the top 15 or 10% of income earned in my age bracket, because I was willing to move halfway across the country for a great career opportunity, but I still can't afford a fucking house or pay off my student loans as quickly as I would like, and probably won't own a home until I'm 30 at this rate.

[–]Zebleblic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I made 50g, 65g, 75g, 80g, then got shit canned because of trumped up charges at work because of a union and them getting rid of ten positions and not wanting to shuffle works around. Finally got a new job starting yesterday, but it's capped at 50g. There isn't a lot of stability in Alberta right now and 50g makes it hard to even save. Luckily they have 100% benefits and a very good pension. Hopefully I'll get a better job again soon. I had another interview last week and expect to hear back end of next week. If that works out I'll have to move 2 hours away and the gf will be out of work until she can find new work. It's all fucked after the oil crashed.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

IDK about that. I know lots of men in their mid thirties, well off, still refusing to get married. When my parents got married, they didn't have any money, at least nothing I had

[–]RedBaron200 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The other, even larger elephant in the room.

[–]Mckallidon 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Their parents were lagging behind in traditional markers of parenthood.

[–]patrice_plz_come_bac 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Marriage 2.0 but fully disguised as 1.0

I should know, my mom ran with all the cash when they got divorced

[–]Mckallidon 10 points11 points  (1 child)

The key to marriage is always not to fuckig do it in the first place.

Bros don't let bros marry hos.

[–]beachbbqlover 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I let a friend marry my sister. I told her I loved her more than him.

[–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (2 children)

My dad's 3rd divorce was a good wake-up call.

[–]CQC3 21 points22 points  (0 children)

For him or for you? Hopefully both.

[–]Bolt_Ironstag 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think my parents are competing at this point.

[–]adversaryroman 53 points54 points  (5 children)

I'll sacrifice my manhood before I sacrifice my life to marriage.

[–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 44 points45 points  (4 children)

You could do both at the same time.

[–]Thinkingard 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Betas cant provide with steady jobs like they could in the past. They have nothing to offer that separates them from alphas. Similarly women cant offer feminity and homemaker skills. They only offer their holes and expect that to be enough.

This is simplified but my perception of whats happening. Economics and incentives play a huge role.

[–]GiggityDPT 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Why does the government need to acknowledge if I want to be with someone? Why would I want to pay the government to be married to someone? Can't I just be with a person for as many years as I want to be?

I don't see any benefit to legal marriage.

I'm happy to be a part of the population willing to let marriage die.

[–]TheLaughingRhino points points [recovered]

I don't see what's hard to figure out.

Chicks want dudes with status. The road to status for most guys is with their careers. To get into most careers, you have to pay your dues. While paying your dues, you have to learn from the "old guys" there, and when you see an "old guy" who has put in decades and living on someone's couch because he got divorced firebombed financially, you realize something is wrong.

People are socialized where they spend the most time - Work

You see the people at work more than you will likely see your family the rest of your life as an adult. You will see them likely more than your kids and more than your mate, if you have one.

If you want to see how marriage is totally fucked up, don't go looking around for married people around you, go to work. See the old dude you know and like and see every single day, see how he toils and grinds so some greasy haired guitar playing douchebag is living in the house he's paying for, banging his ex wife and his kids are calling this piece of trash "Daddy" He can keep paying, or go to jail.

This is where "feels" over "reals" shows it's basic insanity. Chicks want a guy with status. That takes TIME for a guy to make and hold. Then chicks are angry the guy is never home or around for them. You can't have it both ways. You can't have a guy who is ambitious and bringing home the big bacon and expect him to not grind to do it. But that's "logic", that's not women's desire for distance and irritation.

Chicks want to make sure they squeeze every nickel out of child support. And to villainize all men as potential pedophiles and rapists. And have unreal expectations. And then get angry no guy worth having is going to go within 10 feet of a single mother for anything other than a pump and dump. You, again, can't have it both ways, you can't leverage all men then expect them to play ball to their ultimate detriment.

Here is the biggest shit test of them all

Modern Society - "Women should have CHOICES!"


Big Government - "Give them everything, you stupid assholes, it's your fault they don't have everything Oprah says she deserves"

ALOT of guys, older guys, failed this huge shit test. ALOT of younger guys see the carnage every single day in their work and career and realize it's a shit deal.

You want proof women want everything, watch something "nice" done for women and see how many IMMEDIATELY raise their expectations. Not gratitude, not appreciation for a life better than most in human history or the entire world, not reflective but "Oh, that's nice, now what more can I get?"

This is where most single mothers fail back on the dating market. It's all about, what can this dude do for me, what can I get, what about what I want... instead of, what can I do to better help someone fit into my situation which is clearly difficult and challenging.

Getting married today in the "west" is really embracing unchecked greed. Options are supposed to mean tradeoffs, you have "choices" but you can't have all choices, you have to accept give and take. Options aren't supposed to mean every single damn thing on the menu.

As my older brother once said - If you reduce their power to just a warm wet hole, you'll realize you don't have to play their game any more.

[–]vahuety 11 points12 points  (1 child)

It's women driving this, not men.

It's because of hypergamy. 100% of women are all chasing 10% of the men. No woman wants to marry a male "4" when she thinks she has a chance at a male "9." They are all holding out for the perfect man and discarding perfectly good men who don't fit their fantasy "ideal."

They get to the point where they realise that these perfect men don't actually exist, but by then their looks have faded and they can't demand as high quality of a man from the sexual marketplace.

Compounding this issue is the men who have all been ignored for years and even decades while the women all chased Mr. Perfect become bitter and angry misogynists who want nothing other than sex from women.

[–]pvtoneill points points [recovered]

Why get married when she gets half your shit?

[–]Jade_Cokeplate 14 points15 points  (2 children)

You don't even have to be married in some countries.

I'm worried for my male friends with vampire, stay at home and smoke pot, girlfriends.

[–]Bibleisproslavery 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Automatic civil union after 2 years, woo!


[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Losing half isn't the bad part. It's the monthly payments that continue after

[–]WilliamBott 27 points28 points  (0 children)

As a 34-year-old MGTOW, fuck marriage. I'm very intelligent, I make my own money, and I'm not going to get married just so I can get fucked over or have a woman try to play me.

I get the feeling that more and more men are seeing things the way I do every day. Yes, this is going to hurt society and begin a downward spiral, but the state and the third-wave feminists have nobody to blame but themselves.

When you change the rules of the game so only one side always wins, how can you fault the other side for not playing?

[–]redditJ5 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I would have to say my friends that got married and devorced, a lot of them, they got married because "it's the next logical step" type crap or they got pregnant.

[–]SJHammer points points [recovered]

New a 21 year old girl who got married after having a kid with a guy. I met her 1 week after marriage...banging her within hours after the bar.

[–]CrashXXL 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Women are a depreciating asset like cars. Better to lease than to own.

[–]gghavoc 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Marriage made more sense generations ago, as women agreed to handle domestic duties to raise a family, while the husband was the only wage earner. This made sense as women were often taught these skills both in school and at home. There was a trade off, with the man and woman having their area of expertise. Although it is better for women to now have many options for a career, it has killed marriage as a pairing option. There is no great incentive to stay together, not even kids. Marriage is like Sears business model, outdated and fading fast. Good for men wising up!!

[–]PS2Errol 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's true. The main point was for the woman to make a home, look after the house and kids. If they won't do that, what's the point? If a man wants a friend he finds a man (or a dog).

[–]massivewang 16 points17 points  (8 children)

I think most men are blue pill and would marry if they could. I think a big part of the issue is that they're not getting married because women don't want to marry them.

[–]CrashXXL 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Because the media has turned masculinity into a crime. We have a generation of boys that never become men.... so of course no one wants to marry them.

[–]Fedor_Gavnyukov 4 points5 points  (4 children)

i think its that and also the fact that they're a bunch of 35 year old video gamers that have very small plans (if any) for their future. marriage is the last on their mind.

[–]massivewang 10 points11 points  (3 children)

In so much as they're human I'm sure marriage is on their mind, because They are lonely and desire companionship/affection/sex. At the same time I think the 35 year old single nerdy gamer type has no delusions about what he's capable of pulling. He knows hot girls go for the Don Draper types, and he's still repulsed by fatties. So he goes it alone.

I've got a friend of a friend who's a computer programmer killing it financially. He's religious, and the very definition of a "good man". He's also the stereotypical computer nerd - skinny, glasses, nerd type mannerisms. Unsurprisingly he's single, though not for a lack of trying. He works that church circuit hard and asks out women when he's interested, he's just not attractive and won't be successful as a result.

[–]verify_account points points [recovered]

I'm surprised your friend hasn't tried to wife'd up some post-wall slut, or do they still think they're too good for him? Or is your friend smart enough to avoid them?

[–]ronaldraygun913 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Unless you're in some shitty liberal church like the Episcopalians or ELCA, they still teach you to avoid women like that.

[–]ajfeiz8326 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I actually laughed out loud. That is one thing old school organized religion is still good for; when it comes to social values they DON'T GIVE A FUCK what the SJW message of the week is.

[–]Starcruiser28 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think most men are blue pill and would marry if they could. I think a big part of the issue is that they're not getting married because women don't want to marry them.

The reason is very easy to see, these "boys" are raised by single mothers due to pump and dump or divorce. As a result these "boys" have no male role model in their lives due to the obvious, women will not allow their fathers to influence their lives and teach them.

Then when they grow up the next crop of women complain there are no good men and these "boys" will not grow up due to the lack of male role models as well as feminism indoctrinating them which kills women's attraction to them.

Vicious circle isn't it?

[–]EminemLovesGrapes 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What is the point of marriage these days?

Unless you're of faith i see no reason to just have a partnership instead. I'd get baby boomers marry more, back in those days a lot more things were taboo. Pre martial sex.. bastards.. etc.

But now all those things are normal.

[–]rrggrr 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It getting married won't save you. Just having a child(ren) guarantees a blue pill existence for many men in the eyes of the Courts and public opinion.

[–]kyledontcare 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's hard to pin it down to any one factor but the biggest problem is probably the divorce and marriage laws that need to change first. After that the economy.

[–]NYLON_G 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Marriage is a shit deal for men and they are no longer buying into it. It is as simple as that. Anybody else want to argue with the facts can do so at their leisure.

[–]1ozaku7 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Our parents grew up in the generation where the consequences of marriage were not the same as they are now. Back in the day, 1960's, it was unheard of to get divorced and raped by feministic laws. It's only now when we notice that the divorce rates are extremely high and rather not jump in the same boats as our parents were. Who wants to be legally tied to someone they dislike and risk losing half your shit? Much the same is happening in Japan. Men worked their asses off, their offspring have seen how much they struggle and don't want to work as hard because they value their own life. It's a trend with anything in life that something takes really long before people realize that it isn't the way. It takes a fresh perspective of a new generation.

It won't be long before marriage will be completely abolished, and if you want to have kids, you would look for a partner to have kids with and share the costs and custody of the child. I've met a couple like this once. They didn't live together, were not married, nothing. They were friends who desired a child, got it together, shared the costs 50/50 (good bookkeeping), some time later found another partner and that's that.

[–]Aazaad 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think it is not just guys wising up. In the past, women needed someone to provide for them and used to get married at young age resulting in higher marriages.

These days, it is considered socially empowering for women to have a career. They are told to not rely on men and a lot of women are choosing to stay single until their early to mid thirties.

[–]CalmWalk 18 points19 points  (6 children)

Anyone male that gets married is a COMPLETE fucking moron. The system is setup to be a NO win situation for you. You do GREAT you take care of your children your wife. You get rewarded with a very high chance of divorce. She will get at least 50% of your assets, if u had kids, say goodbye to your house. Then starts the alimony and "child support" Are you SERIOUSLY this dumb? If you do a bad job , your a loser, not a "real man" shes gonna leave you for a "real man". Then youll still get raped for "child support" and have to beg to see your kids. The goverment is her thugs, they dont care if your homeless on the street. You are officially a human ATM machine. Oh but your wife is different. Shes not "like that". Let me tell you something. As someone who grew up with 5 sisters and their 5 to 10 friends each. Has been dating since the age of of 14. I know women well. I have been surrounded since I was born by women. I had atleast 5 to 15 women in my house nearly every day since i was born. I know women very very well. And i think most men would be very surprised, that women think alot like us on alot of things. But their hormones are completely different then ours. Which makes them think and feel much different in alot of ways. But they see all the bias in the courts. They see it all. And they laugh at all these men for falling for it. Alot of them form a psychosis and entitlement and start to believe they are better then men. And that we as men deserve to be abused by them thru the govt. Like its their rights as women. Your soon to be wife is no different then anyone else. She WILL abuse that biased system when given the chance. There are SOME that wont. But even the ones that wont. KNOW they can, and that leads a HUGE disparity in the power and control in a marriage. There is no incentive to not divorce you. Women can fuck 40 guys a night. Men have to work to get sex. She can drop you, and find someone else easily. In fact she prolly has 30 guys in her facebook inbox right now. Im mid-30s I knew this and seen this when I was 15. ANY guy that is dumb enough to get married with the current laws. Is a complete fucking idiot. So dumb that im surprised he can even perform daily tasks. Im talking autistic dumb.

[–]askmrcia 1 point2 points  (3 children)

. In fact she prolly has 30 guys in her facebook inbox right now. Im mid-30s I knew this and seen this when I was 15. ANY guy that is dumb enough to get married with the current laws. Is a complete fucking idiot.

I agree with your entire comment. I two had sisters and knew her friends very well. Most guys even on this sub with sisters and mothers will try and act like their relatives are different. They are not.

Another thing with relationships now is that unlike in the past women have far far far more options. They have tinder and social media. You are competing with thousands of guys DAILY. They can be talking to guys thousands of miles away and set plans to meetup.

Hell if women were an ounce smarter and actually used facebook's privacy features, it would be far more difficult to catch them cheating or on a potential branch swing.

Wive's can go on business trips and vacations and plan to meet some ex there and the husband will never know. They could not do that 50 or so years ago. Not to mention our culture/media basically preaches to women to act like this.

There is no point in marriage. You can take your biggest unicorn and she can leave you just because she is bored or not in love anymore. Doesn't even have to cheat. Or your unicorn can have friends, family and the media telling her that her husband is boring or whatever.

I can go on. Just far too many options exist for women to settle for a guy. When they do want to settle its because they are no longer attracting the guys they want for long term. Every guy out there needs to realize this. You marrying a chick in her later years is due to her settling with you. You marrying or attempting to marry a chick in her younger years, she will sleep around or she will get bored of your relationship. Way too many options.

And look at this sub. We preach hold frame and all this shit just to maintain a LTR or marriage. I don't know about you guys, but I will get very tired trying to hold frame in every fuckin situation or try and past a shit test every time just to maintain one. Its better to go into a mindset of you could care less if they leave you. But with that kind of thinking why get in a LTR or marriage anyways?

[–]hyugafan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Marriage is dying

Good. The sooner the better.

[–]2Bait4Me 4 points5 points  (5 children)

A lot of young men don't go out and socialize, learn how to game women, instead they play Video games, watch anime / youtube / netflix & smoke weed.

[–]metalhead4 10 points11 points  (4 children)

I'm so sick of the constant bashing of gaming, watching shows and smoking weed. Every fucking woman out there sits and binge watches shows and even brags about it on their tinder profiles. Hot chicks. You can do all of those things in moderation and still get laid.

Just because you had an issue and couldn't stop jerking off for a day doesn't mean that people can't sit around and enjoy media once in a while.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Dysfunctional Households = Dysfunctional Nation.

Women can't raise kids on their on own. If men don't step in, our nation is fucked. Yet if we do step in, our nation fucks us. It's a mexican standoff:


[–]TheSlicemanCometh 4 points5 points  (1 child)

[–]5pecial points points [recovered]

I wish I lived in the 50s when women were still feminine and waiting util marriage wasn't uncommon :(

[–]zmKozXyH6 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Ban the pill, and get rid of subsidies for single moms and it will go back. Woman will pair-up.

[–]Pastelitomaracucho 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I love women these days. Slutty and free. It's heaven.

[–]-clickhere- points points [recovered]

From a philosophical point of view, I'm wondering if marriage is even ideal for most people.

So setting aside the current dating dynamics, the sociology of baby boomers changing the sexual landscape, and all of that stuff... even in a perfect world my sense is most marriages are just in the "good enough" category. How many people are actually truly happy in a marriage? Even in the 50s, before the baby boomers or changing landscape?

I have no data to support this, obviously, but perhaps only a small percentage of the population should even get married, in the best of cultural times.

A small number of people really do click with each other, and connect, and should probably get married because they have that intimacy, passion, and commitment necessary for a long term partnership.

Maybe the human species isn't really cut out for marriage, most of us anyway.

[–]xx315 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Commitment can create passion and intimacy, but with the ease of divorce, people don't actually look at marriage as a commitment anymore, so most don't realize this.

I too would argue that the state shouldn't be involved in marriage (let it stay a religious thing), but I understand that many other changes would have to take place to make that a viable situation culturally (since marriage is primarily about children).

[–]Endorsed ContributorMentORPHEUS 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'm in the car business. 20 years ago, we'd get 16 year olds with a fresh license, pulling their parents along shopping for a first car.

Nowadays, we get parents asking about a first car for their kid, who is tattooed, jobless and unemployable, and slouching disinterested in the background on their phone without engaging the car searching process. They are in their mid-20s and just now "trying" to get their license.

So much apathy and defeatism compared to just a generation ago. Hell, I threw newspapers for years starting at age 13 so I had my own money saved up for my first car at 16.

[–]imn0tg00d 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How many newspapers do you think you would have to throw to be able to afford your first car today?

[–]snakehayter 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The worst is the condescending rhetoric that comes out of the mouth of baby boomers and tradcucks whenever they put all the blame on men for declining marriage rates.

It seems like gynocentricism is everywhere.

[–]2Overkillengine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Marriage was killed before Millenials were born. They are just refusing to show up to the morgue to ID the body.

[–]SouloftheVoid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The people responsible are the neoliberal globalist elites, and they are found in great numbers in BOTH political parties. These are the worthless parasites who brought us "free trade", "political correctness", NAFTA, CAFTA, permament favored trading status for China, outsourcing of jobs to third world shitholes, H1b indentured servants for the jobs that couldn't be outsourced, the War in Iraq, and the bank bailouts. They don't want any regular people to own homes because eventually the mortgages get paid off and they can no longer extract money; they prefer everybody rents from them forever while they slowly but steadily jack up the rents to squeeze us more and more. The idea that you can work hard, play by the rules, and get ahead is now a lie; you can still get ahead, but you will have to break their rules.

[–]Luckyluke23 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i think it's that, also the fact that the " average" guy isn't getting married anymore. women have been screwed up by social media. women aren't settling anymore like they used to.

now you are competing with their phone and most guys can't compete with that.

[–]finelicks 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My anthropology class mentioned how our cultural norm is to isolate couples after marriage. Not like, toss them on an island and block their number, but we tend to avoid couples after the "big tie", if you will. Apparently in other cultures, the family is highly involved after marriage. Keeps them from being too close? Idk. Seperation keeps the fire ignited. Have you ever listen to your favorite song on repeat? Yeah, not a good idea. Thank you local radio stations for making me hate, "...i'm in love with your body. oh yeah oh yeah. im in love with your body." Welp. I'm high.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm sure the fact that most women you meet are the type you wouldn't take home to meet your parents also plays a part

[–]tatatita 4 points5 points  (2 children)

The main concern in the long run is that muslims gets children(s)a bit early and often 2-5 children, western people get 1-3 or none, so in the end we will all have sharia laws when they gonna use their voting rights, RIP.

[–]BaddyHitty points points [recovered]

On the flip side sharia law would kill AF/BB. Getting stoned to death for cheating is a pretty good deterrent.

[–]GermanScrewdriver 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In 1980, 66% of 25- to 34-year-olds were already married. 12.5% had already been married and divorced.

In 2015, just 20% of 25- to 34-year-olds (these are called "millennials") were married, and only 7% had been divorced.

You colonists (and that terrible writer) and your unwillingness to use useful formats!

[–]RedSkeller 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah and the baby boomers fucked everything up and now are pointing the finger at the younger generations, what a bunch of obsolete fools.

[–]Matacks607 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Divorce isn't always that messy. I've heard of young people who got divorced without any financial drama. They basically just split everything 50/50. But if you're a guy with a lot more money than your wife you could end up getting finacially raped in the divorce. So don't marry a women that has a lot less money than you.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Splitting everything 50/50 sounds like a good idea, but it is not. Throw kids in and that means the kids get to go back and forth between two half priced houses. Dad makes more money to compensate and mum swings onto a new dick. It is the kids that suffer worst. The idea of a nuclear family had a lot of merit. It is a bad deal now thanks to marriage 2.0

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 4 points5 points  (14 children)

I think this article is more accurate in some ways than the idiotic MRA/MGTOW fantasy.

While marriage rates are indeed declining, this is not because men have wised up in large numbers and are opting out of marriage due to the bad deal it poses. A small percentage of men with extreme views who are very vocal on the internet claim to have done this, but most unmarried loser men would give anything for a woman to marry them. They're not unmarried by choice (though some losers pretend that they are).

The real truth is that more men are losers than ever before. They never learned masculinity or how to be a man. They're still children. Woman-like. While women are manning up in increasing numbers, often because they have to due to the lack of suitable men available to fuck. Most of the men who aren't married are guys women don't want marry. Because they suck. Only a very tiny percentage are good men who choose to avoid marriage.

[–]PS2Errol 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Massive female obesity does't have anything to do with it?

i.e. the number of suitable women is dropping like a stone.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 8 points9 points  (1 child)

The candle is definitely being burned at both ends. The small number of quality men that are left don't want a mannish bitch of a woman who's 30-50 pounds too heavy because she can't cope with the stress of having to work a real job and maintain her residence and eats too damn much.

People in general suck more nowadays because society is hyper-focused on making sure everybody is happy, has an easy time of things, and their self-esteem is in tact.

The problem is that women can suck all they want and still make babies.

Men can't suck or they don't get to make babies.

[–]NYLON_G 5 points6 points  (2 children)

You're so full of it a response is not necessary. Your views change nothing. No one is buying into the trap. Sorry but you will have yo peddle your BS elsewhere.

[–]Roaring40sUK 1 point2 points  (4 children)

They never learned masculinity or how to be a man.

Yes, coupled with womens inflated idea of thier own SMV and the bar is beyond a lot of men now, unitl a wall smashed slut knocks on his door..

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Definitely. The candle is being burned at both ends.

Men suck today more than ever due to the anti-gender role, anti-masculinity position that is adopted by BOTH feminists and MRAs.

And women don't want or need an average guy who has a job any more. They have their own jobs. They can hold out for a quality guy...but there aren't many of those guys left, and the few that are left don't want a mannish bitch of a woman with a serious entitlement problem and about 30 pounds of extra weight on her ass because she just a girl and can't handle the stress of having to work a real job and maintain a place to live so she eats like a horse to cope.

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