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Girls see guys on a scale of 0 - 1 (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

If you are a zero to them it means they simply don't find you attractive. They won't care if you have a BMW, have 100k in the bank account, like traveling, or anything that makes you who you are beyond that superficial physical attraction. You simply will not even get a chance to demonstrate value. If you ask them for their number and text them they won't text back, they will flake on your plans and not reschedule, and mostly completely uninvested emotionally. Similar to a person without a degree not getting a chance at an interview.

If you are a 1 to them they will love your hobbies, make time for you, be excited and giggle with you, probably have sex with you pretty easily. The difference in how you get treated is night and day.

It doesnt matter if she looks like shrek or she looks like arianny celeste, if she doesnt find you attractive she won't settle, she will move the fuck on.

I'm still struggling with depression and anger after working my whole life to be semi successful monetary wise and its been killing me inside women will never like me for who i am until i become physically attractive. However, i understand and am trying my hardest to change. Ive given up fast food and candy and been cooking vegetables, brown rice, and lean meat for a week. Currently at 190lbs 20% BF at 5'9" and my first goal is to be at 179 with 15% BF within 90 days.

Thanks for reading.


[–]newName543456 982 points983 points  (100 children)

IMO it's more of a ternary -1, 0, 1 scale

1 is lover

0 is provider

-1 is invisible/creep

[–][deleted] 323 points324 points  (40 children)

I can be on board with this

[–]EGOtyst 179 points180 points  (39 children)

What he said. If anything, guys are the ones with a binary view of women:

0 - Would not fuck

1 - Would fuck

[–][deleted] 383 points384 points  (26 children)

1 - Would fuck.

0 - Would fuck but wouldn't tell anyone.

-1 - Would not fuck.

[–]aewiggin 44 points45 points  (0 children)

Yep, but my 0 is "would fuck if I were really drunk"

[–]alreadypiecrust 63 points64 points  (7 children)

1 - Would fuck.

0 - Would fuck but wouldn't tell anyone.

-1 - Would fuck with a bag over her head.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit 14 points15 points  (0 children)

1 - Would fuck

0 - Would fuck if she hit on me hard

-1 - Probably already fucked

[–]1EarthExile 27 points28 points  (3 children)

I don't know, I know a few "Would Fuck Except For Potential Lunacy" types

[–]Mckallidon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fuck them at a friend's house. She'll naturallybpass herself along when you're done.

[–]One_friendship_plz 14 points15 points  (2 children)

No, not true. Most of the women we would fuck are not one we would consider for a relationship let alone marriage.

[–]EGOtyst 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Relationship? Marriage? Lawl.

[–]Strum_Gewehr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

1 - Would fuck and keep.

  0- Would fuck and chuck

  -1 - Would not fuck

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–]jamesd1100 25 points26 points  (3 children)

    Eerily perfect synopsis of the motives of all women

    [–]DownvoteAndBanMe 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    You guys do understand that some women also care about stuff other than looks. While certainly a major part, some girls just can't stay with hot guys who treat them badly. You can't attribute a single motive to the actions of a complex human being.

    I'm sure if you guys work to get in shape and take good care of yourselves while learning how to treat women pleasantly y'all could even get a girl.

    [–]good_guy_submitter 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Women select for a good genetic partner. That is why looks are particularly important.

    However social proof can do wonders. For example John Reilly is one ugly motherfucker but he cleans up shop with top tier women just because of social status. That's not even accounting for wealth.

    [–]badaod 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    of all the above, this is what i can agree with most.

    for "1" i would add "... and hope to get provided some time in the future, but ok if not"

    I had this thing yesterday with a Chinese woman:

    first she wanted me to come back to her after traveling. hoping to build a relationship etc.

    when i told her that i never come back she flipped to "1" and we fucked like wild dogs. after that she told me, "the experience was more important for her than missing out on it".

    woman see us like business deals. if they can't lease the Lamborghini they opt for the next best thing: the test drive.

    Do you agree?

    [–][deleted]  (35 children)

    [removed]

      [–]MrInternetDetective 50 points51 points  (32 children)

      God help the omegas out there....

      [–][deleted]  (18 children)

      [removed]

        [–]4scoopscomeon 12 points13 points  (14 children)

        Could you eli5 Omega's /the hate they're getting ? Did a search but it's not really apparent

        [–]Docbear64 49 points50 points  (12 children)

        No one hates omegas but it's hard to muster up too much concern for a person THAT far down the rabbit hole . Many of us have been unattractive betas but even betas tend to have some redeeming qualities. Omegas however are so undesirable and disassociated from the rest of us that they aren't even playing the same game .

        Ever met a guy who weakly laughs off how no woman pays attention to him and then goes home and does nothing but watch something , play something , eat , and sleep? That's an omega .

        I know a few and they are generally stubborn , spiteful , miserable, and yet do little to nothing to change it. They do next to nothing to make their lives better and then complain how unfair it is that the world doesn't value them for what they are on the inside . How do you show concern for a person like that ?

        [–]OPWills 24 points25 points  (10 children)

        Ever met a guy who weakly laughs off how no woman pays attention to him and then goes home and does nothing but watch something , play something , eat , and sleep? That's an omega .

        Actually this strikes me as beta behavior, not omega behavior. The beta lives in a shit cookie-cutter apt, eats lean cuisine, watches Netflix mostly for fun and has no opinions of his own. This is not omega behavior, loosely defined.

        Knee-jerk contempt for slightly eccentric, atypical men with strong identities and interests to themselves strikes me as beta behavior. The tendency to tear down what you don't understand and perceive as a threat.

        [–]Mckallidon 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        I half disagree. I know dudes that are beta as fuck in relation to other people in the big picture, but they are fucking Chads about it in their little pond and give zero fucks what people think and just do their thing HAM. And they don't confine themselves to safe spaces. They're quietly assertive but not dominating. These are the dorks that wind up successfully marrying and having kids despite being mostly average as fuck but kicking ass at something that matters. Betas are like the male version of a gf we don't fuck. They do shit for us. They like doing shit for us because they're our friends. They are the giants whose shoulders we stand on. Betas are the ones who actually make the world grind forward everyday in spite of itself.

        [–]Docbear64 8 points9 points  (2 children)

        Fair enough I can see that . So you would say Omegas are a little more along the lines of the Japanese Herbivore men ?Just completely removed and disinterested from the sexual marketplace?

        [–]OPWills 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Who said "Omega" men (honestly I find these generalizations to be just that, generalizations, and reductive) were disinterested in sex?

        Since when was going one's own way, irrespective of social approval, incompatible with value in the sexual marketplace?

        I think most would agree the caricature of the "Japanese Herbivore man" looks nothing like the typical omega.

        [–]Docbear64 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Yes these generalizations are reductive because they are generalizations . I don't know or claim to know every Omega out there nor am an advocate or representative for the nation of Omegas. The point is that if alphas garner general sexual interest from women , etas garner passive interest from women with a focus on their provider skills, then omegas who aren't seen as valuable providers nor as sexual interests are not on the sexual marketplace.

        Going MGTOW is in it's essence a refusal to participate in the SMP is it not ? I don't understand how you can go your own way and still claim to be a sexual actor ? Is that not like saying you're going off the grid with a Wifi Connection , a cellphone, and having an Electric Utilities bill ?

        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

        Are you framing Omegas as those who outright reject social competition and the smp? They have no value socially, so they choose to eject themselves and hold everyone who does compete, in contempt?

        [–]beginner_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Actually this strikes me as beta behavior, not omega behavior.

        Agree. The omega is the fat guy that lives in his parents basement. More or less. Or just fat/ugly, no or poor job and lacks social skills.

        Or said otherwise a man from which a woman can't benefit at all.

        [–]Snazzy_Serval 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Actually this strikes me as beta behavior, not omega behavior. The beta lives in a shit cookie-cutter apt, eats lean cuisine, watches Netflix mostly for fun and has no opinions of his own. The same exact thing can be said about an alpha.

        The only difference between them is that the alpha knows how to attract women.

        [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        Another more basic description of the omega: In the wolf pack, the omega is the one everyone (alpha and betas) pick on to relieve stress and aggression. If shit flows downhill, from the alpha, to the betas, then the omega is the one the betas belittle and pick on.
        He has no value even as a sympathizer or a follower to the betas. The females treat him with disdain and are often even more savage than the males.

        [–]bolupua 8 points9 points  (1 child)

        God help the omegas out there....

        A friend of mine was an omega. No money, only played with computers. Horrible, horrible face. Teeths almost disfigured, quite fat, I mean the guy was UGLY.

        20 years later, he's 35, married with a nice girl (6-7) and have a kid. Not an alpha, but his SMV improved infinitely.

        [–]OPWills 17 points18 points  (6 children)

        This disdain for the "omega" male on this forum is surprising. I would think the fawning, weak-willed beta would be the main target of derision. The omega male at least knows his own worth, follows his own path. Dare I say many of the trailblazing, strong-willed, adventurous men of the past were Omegas, not Alphas, in that they didn't care what their peers thought of them. Their actions were not predicated on social approval.

        Correct me if I'm wrong, with evidence, but isn't the entire MGTOW phenomenon an essentially "omega" angle on social life?

        [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Trailblazing, strong willed, adventurous men are more Sigmas if they are not Alphas. Omegas have little to no personal power.

        [–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns 9 points10 points  (2 children)

        The omega male at least knows his own worth, follows his own path. Dare I say many of the trailblazing, strong-willed, adventurous men of the past were Omegas, not Alphas, in that they didn't care what their peers thought of them. Their actions were not predicated on social approval.

        That's the SIGMA you're talking about.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I'd definitely agree with you on that. Though there are many definitions and perspectives on alpha/beta/omega roles, the omega, to me, is the one who does not have the traits (looks, social skills, wealth) which give him value in the smp. Whether by his own intention or ignorance, he is exempt from male or female social validation. If one has social value in any form, i'd reckon they'd fall into alpha or beta.

        [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        As soon as they exit the gene pool, they will stop drowning.

        [–]Mckallidon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        The cucks! We need them. We can't afford all of our kids.

        [–]blackjackANDplates 21 points22 points  (0 children)

        Or:

        1: Chad

        0: Husband

        -1: Orbiter

        [–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 30 points31 points  (1 child)

        You know, you make a great point in that we have been calling it a "dual sex/mating strategy." Actually, there is entire strategy that involves keeping bad genes out of the pool.

        You have to watch how women act to understand how this strategy works. Fucked the cabana boy with all the muscles? You naughty minx, tee hee. Fucked the neckbeard with questionable hygiene and 30 extra pounds? Ewwwww! You dirty slut! The level of slut shaming is often in inverse proportion to SMV of the men involved.

        [–]1empatheticapathetic 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Wow. Never heard that before. Interesting!

        [–]gistaminute 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        This is how I was thinking. My evidence is when they think you're a 1 and then you fuck up and they still agree to see you again. When they come back you're a 0 and you know they've probably fucked a Chad and talked strategy with their girlfriends in between. They'll have lots of rules etc and fuck in 1-2 dates, or if you're really hopeless then you can end up in -1 zone.

        [–]Mckallidon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Holy shit. I saved this comment. This post and these comments are the start of something new.

        [–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear222 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        Archwinger has a great post on this. It suggests that there are 4 categories. Beta, Alpha, Omega, and Unattainable. This is the most accurate theory I've found so far.

        [–]choomguy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        I like the 3 scale. I rate women the same way. Would, would if drunk, and wouldnt ever.

        [–]MenchenFive 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Its not a binary scale, but a range from "Would bang and be able to brag about it" to "A creep that shouldn't even look at me".

        [–]godfatherchimp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        And often times the only practical difference between a beta and omega is the amount of money she thinks he has

        [–]orezavi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I'd rather be a -1 than a 0.

        [–][deleted] 472 points473 points  (21 children)

        If you are a 1 to them they will love your hobbies, make time for you, be excited and giggle with you, probably have sex with you pretty easily. The difference in how you get treated is night and day.

        women don't think funny men are sexy. women think sexy men are funny.

        [–]forreal8619 113 points114 points  (1 child)

        That has to be one of the best philisophical/ literal statements I've read. The red pill has done its job with you friend.

        [–]bolupua 9 points10 points  (0 children)

        So much insight only in this reddit post alone...

        [–]imn0tg00d 41 points42 points  (2 children)

        Pretty much. Cant tell you how many times ive said something unfunny and gotten a laugh anyways.

        [–]destraht 7 points8 points  (1 child)

        My African Grey parrot knows exactly the funniest parts of everything that I have ever said and laughs out loud. Its a super awesome and cuter laugh track.

        [–]e4tshit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I'll be watching standup and start laughing, then my African Grey will start laughing in my voice and that makes me laugh more, then we're both laughing our asses off. My apartment is a mad house.

        [–]Landry86 29 points30 points  (8 children)

        A funny man who is also hot: Sexy

        A funny man who is not hot: Funny

        [–]lqtys 39 points40 points  (7 children)

        He doesn't have to be funny. When a woman is attracted to a man, she finds funny everything he says, even when it is not funny. It's a common IOI.

        [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        Mm, sorta. A beta who is funny can definitely use his humor to charm his way into some pussy.

        But generally yeah, women will just laugh at alphas whether they're actually funny or not.

        [–]fullyopen 51 points52 points  (13 children)

        I don't agree about money. There's a difference between good money and fuck you money.

        With a low six figure income and all the other accoutrements, women will get a decent life. If you're making seven figures, women know they can get ALMOST anything they want and now don't care if you're fat. If you live an exciting life that screams "I'm loaded" they will come.

        If you make an eight figure income and women realize they can live in your yacht for the rest of their life without lifting a finger, you could be morbidly obese they will not care.

        What you think is good money and what a woman thinks is good money are two different things. The real question is what life can a woman have on just your income. If it isn't all glamour but rather comfort, then you can't be a fat loser. She can get a job herself and find a hot fun and exciting dude for the tingles.

        So you say you drive a BMW and worked on making money. Are you relatively rich or fuck your rich? If the former, you're damn right you gotta fix yourself.

        But, i sincerely hope you're also fixing yourself to be the best version of yourself. Those who do it for "the women" are the type who will get stuck on some princess and have never really learned anything. They fall hard. Be the best version of you.

        [–]imn0tg00d 18 points19 points  (7 children)

        I agree with this. I'm not wealthy by any means, I turned away from a high powered career and am now working a lower paying job. I work 4 days a week and can still afford a comfortable life. I tend to pick up a lot of girls that have careers already and just want the tingles. I dont feel like wealth is necessary at all if you have the proper frame. I'm looked at as the fun and adventurous guy and pull everyone into that frame. I have a ton of stories from traveling the world and I'm very good at telling them. Be an entertaining storyteller and you will always get women.

        [–]DeadShot91 14 points15 points  (2 children)

        Can confirm. My mother is/has been the main bread winner for our home growing up. However my dad is naturally Red Pill as fuck with impenetrable frame.

        Growing up I was so confused how he would just shut her the fuck down whenever she dared to question him or shit test him. "Why haven't they divorced, she deserves to be treated like a princess and it's like he doesn't even care sometimes..." But it all makes sense now.

        Well played, Pops. Well played.

        [–]badaod 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Yes, thanks for that observation! I had the same with my grandpa. He served in war and never talked about it. I did not know him well other than some infos about beating my dad He probably was RP, guessing from the stories.

        Now, my Dad had frame but lost it anytime he got into rage about tiny things. I would say he was almost RP but these moments when he struggled signaled to me that men are not that strong. also the whole zeitgeist in the 80s contributed to it (I am from Europe).

        what a wrong interpretation i took from it as a child.

        My nature was always RP but i could never admit it fully as i assumed I also had these weak moments like my dad.

        How wrong I was.

        actually i am more strong than he is. I found that out after my failed marriage last year ... and (of course) thanks to Rolo Tomassi's book, some good friends and this forum.

        Thanks for all you are contributing here. I am grateful to have found my real self - and many of you helped.

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

        [removed]

          [–]imn0tg00d 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I haven't read anything on better storytelling, but I can give great advice. The biggest thing about storytelling is knowing what details are necessary for the story. You can cut a lot of the slow stuff out. What you cut out is probably more important than what you put in. Don't be too wordy and get straight to the point. Try not to repeat yourself as well, unless someone asks you to.

          Also, ALWAYS be animated and totally into the story you're telling. You should have high energy. Try to use different voices or accents for the various people in your story. When you use the accent/voice for the first time in the story, don't be all serious about it though, use the first accent as kind of a joke. You want to take a micro-pause and look around for the laughs, then continue with the story. You use that first pause as kind of an indicator to your audience that you're going to be using voices and accents in the story. You don't pause at all after that. The micro pause just acclimates them to the story style and pulls them into it.

          Try to convey how you're feeling at each major point in the story. Bring them into the story and make the world float away.

          All of this advice is way easier to demonstrate than to write about, but hopefully most of it made sense.

          [–]Renato1092 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          As my collegaue would say, a fat man is a pig, a rich fat man is a cute bear.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Yes i'm not lambo wealthy, just well off enough to have a decent life, which again i agree most women can provide for themselves now.

          I want to tell you i am doing it for myself, but that would be a lie. I have to be honest here and say my motivation is to find a girlfriend or at least even a girl that will want to just talk and spend time with me. I feel i have many things going for me in my life, but the main thing keeping me from being happy is my inability to attract women.

          If you can share what inspired you to make health and fitness something you do for yourself i'd like to know

          [–]RP_Scotsman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          I was in the same boat. Funny thing is once you get your ducks in order and the women start lining up, it doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore. Which is why making sure you are passionate about your health and your career suddenly now seems to me to be that much more important.

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          like you said, you should always be your best version

          but if you have a 7 figure annual income, you can get any girl. not any specific girl (there will always be outliers), but if one is playing hard to get there are equal and better girls who will jump on your dick

          at 7 figure income levels, especially @ 8, you're not trying to get with girls, thhy are trying to get with you

          [–]OmegaMan2 82 points83 points  (18 children)

          The best advice I can give you is to lift as if your life depended on it.

          There are a great many other threads on this sub which will tell you the same thing.

          From my own personal experience, it is true. I was an incel for my entire 20s. Believe me that hurt knowing that not a single lady would give you the time of day.

          I started lifting, dressing better and bought a Corvette. I started getting dates and the "pièce de résistance" was when one young lady said that she absolutely loved watching my muscles as we fucked.

          Hit the gym and hit it hard. The rewards in not only physique but in self confidence will be like nothing you've ever experienced.

          Good Luck brother, and don't give up.

          edit: as others on this thread intimate, there is more to getting a girl, but lifting and the confidence is gives you will provide you with an enormous advantage.

          [–]imn0tg00d 19 points20 points  (0 children)

          Oh hell yes it does give you an advantage. It makes up for so many holes in my game lol. I make so many mistakes but end up getting laid anyways.

          [–]oGz649 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          That's so true.1year ago I started to lifting I was 70kg with %20bf.Im not a long person.170cm (5'5" maybe dunno) and I got so much positive effects from lifting.Self confidence, people looking at me different way..But best advice I can give you here OP,don't try to show that you are lifting.Let them see differences..My fault is I share on Instagram (not to be cocky motherfucker) that's changes to give some friends inspiration.Now I'm with %10bf..And I'm loving it.. Good luck!

          [–]_This_Is_Magic_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          But if you have small dick nothing else matters.

          [–][deleted]  (11 children)

          [deleted]

          [–]1scissor_me_timbers00 9 points10 points  (3 children)

          lol don't "stare everybody down". Don't look at everybody as whether you could kill them or fuck them. Good hell you are a true autist.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            People think you mean random eye contact and not eye contact while talking. If you see some dude randomly looking at you briefly while he is gazing, and you hold that eye contact in a way of making him look away first then it will be weird and aggressive. But in conversation, you are more correct.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Yea i've wanted a manual labor job for a while now. I don't care about the pay but what intrigues me is being able to be so tired at the end of the day i won't be able to think "oohhh boo hoo she doesnt like me" i'll just fuckin pass out

            [–]1Tommy_407 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            I like the whole thing you said but do you really recommend staring everyone down? Isn't this a little awkward

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            You lost me at jos a banks

            [–]lukky_pierre 14 points15 points  (8 children)

            Oh I don't know, OP. I used to be big into PU, and I got pretty good at it. Let me use me as an example.

            Physically, I'm nothing special. In fact, on paper, I'm unattractive: short, skinny and losing my hair. Because of this, I was never successful in bars and clubs. I held no value in environments where value was predicated on looks.

            However, I also taught ESL classes in NYC at that time. Put me up in front of a room and let me run my smooth-talking mouth, and suddenly BAM! I had women throwing themselves at me. I had Italian beauties and Japanese rich girls inviting me out for drinks and fucking me discreetly.

            Those are the extreme ends of my spectrum: zilch in bars and clubs, abondanza when I was the front man in my own little ESL rock show.

            If we're talking average, I do ok in environments like parks on a nice day. I do well on vacations in foreign countries when chatting up strangers is more usual. In terms of physical fitness, I found that women have a much stronger response to fashion than they do to musculature - in other words, my meager physical gains got me way less attention than learning how to dress, which got me a significant boost in female attention.

            What I'm saying is, in my experience the ol' PU precept that feminine attraction is more complex than male attraction has absolutely held true.

            A wise PUA once said: it only takes one hook to catch a fish. For some guys, that hook happens to be looks. Which, let's not kid ourselves, is a pretty great hook to have in the water. It's probably the second-best hook (after social proof - if you're ugly and broke but famous, you'll still get laid). But it's not the only hook. Thank fucking god.

            [–]1empatheticapathetic 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            ESL = English as a Second Language for those who also need to google it.

            [–]destraht 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            I also get super low numbers in bars and (basically nothing in) clubs but in overall I've done pretty good and if I had to estimate I'd be into the 60's or more. I have an unusual outlook on life and so I need to create my own reality bubble around myself and to pull a woman into it and in a club I'm just an unpolished and less glitzy dude passing through some other guys bubble (the owner of the place, the DJ, etc).

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

            I see so what you are saying is i should find what i am talented at and use that as a filter to allow women who are inspired by what i teach to be interested in me for more genuine reasons rather than the superficial stuff i'm so intent is causing me this failure.

            [–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (10 children)

            Look, your goal is a good starting point, but don't be blinded by the fact that your physical attractiveness is everything.

            Girls will look at the best deal and it includes your facial and body attractiveness ( and it's not the same for every woman ), your body language, self-esteem, humor, social status, how alpha are you, are you more extrovert or more introvert, your lifestyle and yes to some extend (IMO not very much) even your monetary success.

            And this comes from somebody who's competing in bodybuilding (men's physique) for nearly 4 years now.

            And it's not really 0 to 1. It's more like 0 to 100. That's why there is a thing called branch swinging. Even if you're in the top 20%, if she can get a better deal, she will take it. She's just climbing that tree and wants to get as high as possible before she hits the wall.

            Good luck!

            [–]Askada 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            I don't quite agree with the last part.

            Branch swinging isn't always for the better. Different is often more than enough. Don't fool yourself thinking if you are the best guy out there, top 1%, she will never leave you. She will in a fucking heartbeat once she gets bored.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Thanks for the right up man. I definitely agree its not as binary in the long term, in my post i was referring more to a first impression type situation where she will be much more receptive to what makes you unique if she finds you a "1" immediately.

            I agree with you on her branch swinging once shes already comfortable with you.

            [–]50339 13 points14 points  (0 children)

            No one will ever like you for who you are. Or any of us for that matter. Because the world only wants from you what you can offer it. Don't hold women to a higher standard than you do your co workers, boss, or the turd who cut you off in traffic this morning.

            [–]fuckeduphomebody 21 points22 points  (0 children)

            You are right. At first, you are a 1 or a 0. After that, if you are a one you will be seen on scale of 0 to 100 as itsjustsimon said.

            [–]G4RRETT 52 points53 points  (21 children)

            The same basically applies to men. You should not be surprised that women want attractive partners, especially attractive women. I realized this at 15 and that's when I started lifting weights (11 years ago). Do men want to sleep with/date unattractive women? No. same applies for females.

            [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

            I'm not going to lie and say i'm not surprised. Honestly i am. I thought my whole life if i get good grades and a good job i'll get the girl i like. It was a shock when i found out this isnt completely true. I didnt realize they would mostly undermine all your other accomplishments simply because you don't adhere to their attraction standards.

            Since taking the red pill ive been internalizing women want attractive partners for thise accomplishments to have any meaning.

            Thanks for writing.

            [–]G4RRETT 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            appreciate your honesty. the good(?) news is: as a man your job and status can increase your attractiveness. As a woman your job typically can't increase your attractiveness. So work hard at everything you do and constantly improve, that's what this sub is about at its core; being the best version of yourself possible. get good grades, hit the gym, eat less junk food, take care of your skin, keep a good haircut, read more books.

            [–]InfiniteAscent 31 points32 points  (9 children)

            No it doesn't. This has been confirmed multiple time, including a rather famous plot by OKcupid. While men will rate women on a rather continuous scale from 1-10, women rate men in a bimodal distribution. In other words, guys will rate based on how attractive they are, but women rate based on IF you are attractive or not.

            [–]redpillthrowaway112 30 points31 points  (5 children)

            Men rate HOW attractive (1-10) and women rate IF attractive (Yes/No). Totally accurate summary.

            [–]Slut_Slayer9000 11 points12 points  (1 child)

            The difference is men will fuck girls that theyhave zero plans to ever been in a relationship with. For women their social stigma is more at stake for sleeping with a man who isn't relationship worthy so its narrowed down to a point where they will only fuck men that they could possibly be in a relationship with where as men view women as one of three ways. We either would never fuck them, only fuck them, or fuck them and potentially LTR them.

            [–]G4RRETT 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            For women their social stigma is more at stake for sleeping with a man who isn't relationship worthy

            this is not the case anymore in 2017 western civilization.

            [–]G4RRETT 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            at the end of the day it's either attractive enough to bang or not. it's binary. Unattractive people are unattractive to the opposite sex. what a concept

            [–]JohnnyDildonics 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            so get good or get rich to buy the goods, or die tryin'.

            [–]Snazzy_Serval 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            That's a great way of putting it.

            It's actually pretty eye opening.

            [–]EGOtyst 11 points12 points  (1 child)

            But only one part of the scale matters:

            1 - would fuck

            0 - would not fuck

            [–]jckiker 10 points11 points  (7 children)

            Yes but with guys, there are varying degrees of attraction to women. OP is saying it's binary for women.

            [–]G4RRETT 15 points16 points  (6 children)

            I'm arguing that it's binary for most men too

            [–]bolupua 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            It's obviously binary for everybody.

            You cannot half-fuck somebody.

            But you can fuck a girl once, and never again.

            [–]Askada 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            It is, and it's good.

            Rating women in 1-10 scale, like we usually do, leads to unecessary pedestalization.

            0-1 is simple as it should be.

            [–][deleted]  (10 children)

            [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (5 children)

            Yea im having a particularly brutal day after getting rejected by every single girl i talked to. Including two girls that weighed more than me. It sucks, but i can't give up until I die.

            [–]destraht 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            Hot women respond dramatically better to me than ham fists (maybe proactively rejecting me or their value delusion?). For me its just a matter of putting myself around lots of hot women and then one of them will like me. The rub seems to always be finding where they are.

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]matrixpush 3 points4 points  (2 children)

              Agreed, it's also not even limited to tech cities. The ratio in the US 20-45 is probably something like 15 available men to 1 available woman. It's not documented, but it should be.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]matrixpush 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Google "United States of too many men". I'd post the link directly but not sure it's allowed. I'd say that's the most in-depth explanation out there. It was posted on a red pill forum, most didn't agree though.

                [–]FreyWill 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Must have been nice when there were major wars and ~30% of eligible men were overseas.

                [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                No. You are looking at it the wrong way. Women can't look things in binary, they follow their emotions. And to get her into bed, you gotta take them on a roller coaster of emotions...you know, push-pull.

                [–]Merwebb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                Push pull is big.

                Just realized that i have been wasting chances and opportunities by not pulling, by being easily reachable - even giving myself away -

                This shit is tiring man

                [–]justgotalpha 4 points5 points  (4 children)

                I know what you mean,you dont have to be male model status to fuck women but yes she needs to find you attractive.i went from below average to above average looking,its all in grooming,working out,dieting and finding a haircut that suits your face and good fashion style..i went from considering plastic surgery to damnn i look good!!! Alot of guys might think they are ugly until they go through a strict routine of grooming and doing all the things i mentioned above

                [–]imn0tg00d 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                You dont even have to be the most attractive guy in the room, you just have to pass the threshold of being attractive. Game will seperate you from the rest once you have that handled.

                [–]justgotalpha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Thats true,you dont have to be the most attractive in the room but you DO want to be the best one!! We look at women for the most part for her looks ,they look at us for the whole package,so combining looks with game is where guys should be,game becomes easier when you have looks even though most women might be intimidated its alot easier to get laid...i spinned 2 HB7 barely putting effort,as a good looking guy the first thing you should never do is act nervous ,she thinks your are cofident by default and that will basically lead to getting her to bed Just by acting confident!!!

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Yes i agree. Its a fine line between 0 and 1 but it could be the difference between simply a few percentage points in body fat, one level promotion, and even something like a shaved head vs. cool haircut. I'm currently below the minimum threshold to be considered attractive, but it won't be impossible to go above it.

                [–]justgotalpha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                You have to work with what you got and see how you could make the best of it,find your style ,lift,groom, diet and get a haircut that suits you well ,if your bald grow a beard ....follow this and women will think of you as attractive

                [–]BravoF1 4 points5 points  (5 children)

                " I'm still struggling with depression and anger after working my whole life to be semi successful monetary wise .... " -OP

                Women can smell depression and desperation in you. Don't try to get pumped in the gym without dealing with that inner weakness of sadness. Don't see that crap as a strength of your emotional side. Be highly positive and full of lifting words. Let your comments be warm and yet scarse do women. Don't saturate them with flattery because then you'll be part of the bunch who try to drop panties. Your objective (abstractly speaking) is to show them that your door is open and if they walk in, you will take care of them emotionally and sexually. Resist as much as you can from speaking out desperately.

                Texting- Don't SPAM. This means sending 4 messages just to say a casual goodnight. Don't be desperate man... This also means don't send her a " good morning my sour skittle! " first thing in the morning ( unless she does it first ). Leave the door open for her ass to make a move. You'd be SUPRISED how unafraid women are to text a man. You will probably get that whole " i didn't wanna bother you._. " thing. That might be the most friendly friend zone ever, or it might mean just that. You'll have to figure her out and see if she really is shy or just being retarded. If she likes you and is just shy, you won't have a hard time communicating.

                Golden Rule: Be Different. Don't dress like the typical "alpha" guy. Ever wonder why women (american women) love foreigners? Because they're different! They speak different things, dress differently, act differently, and the girls get a sense of adventure from this.

                If you're just an average joe with an ectomorph ( slender man ) body. You can still make it happen. There are tons of average and below average girl who hides the ugliness with make up. That means you can hide your average self, not by being a make up guy... DRESS NICE.

                I don't want to type anymore srsly....bye

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                Thanks for the write up. I try my best to be cool and collected, but unless i be direct with a woman she won't even know I exist.

                I do think i give up too quick, like when a girl I invited to go on a hike said no to me and then she ended up going anyway and posted it on her snapchat story it really effected me and i removed her as a friend.

                Lastly yes i need to work on fashion, ive never been interested in it my whole life and think its pretty stupid (i dont enjoy it) but i guess i have to to have a decent shot.

                [–]henry589 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                it's seem like you lack confidence or you derive your self-worth through a woman's approval.

                Just work on becoming a better version of yourself. Talk to multiple girls, if they reject you, just move on. It could be a variety of factors on why they rejected you.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                I don't have any confidence and when i fake it it doesnt help either. Just a lifetime of rejection and being taught to punish yourself for your mistakes rather than reward yourself for your successes really took a toll on me.

                [–]henry589 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                Confidence in talking to women or confidence in yourself ?

                Confidence is built, its after x number of success you become confident in something. From reading what you have post, it seems like bodybuilding is one of your measures of success.

                Btw, eventually you stop giving a fuck if a women rejects you, I have been rejected hundreds if not thousands of times. Eventually you stop caring. It might take you hundreds before you find a women that is receptive to you, this is the case for the majority of men. Also, women can detect desperation and insecurities by your body language.

                [–]OPWills 6 points7 points  (6 children)

                So you perceive your unattractiveness is primarily a weight problem? Just looking for clarification.

                [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (5 children)

                Yes that and my fashion sense is pretty bad. But i'll focus on fashion a bit more when i am not so flabby because i think there is no point in filling my shirt out with soft flab

                [–]Wisdomination 10 points11 points  (3 children)

                There is no point in buying nice shirts if you’re planning to be a different shape in six months, too.

                [–]flashbang123 18 points19 points  (2 children)

                Agreed. Go full monk mode for 6 months. Get you ass into the kingdom of the iron. Drink only water. Read more. Eliminate porn if you haven't already. Pursue a passion or hobby project. Make sure you are making these changes for you - and not some unicorn.

                [–]solbrothers 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                This is pretty much what trp is to me, in a nutshell. Do these things and you won't have to chase women as they will seek you out

                [–]imn0tg00d 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                True. I was "complaining" to one of my friends the other day about how girls just keep falling out of the sky into my lap.

                [–]ThrowFader 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Keep at it and good luck bro

                [–]Mechanik_J 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Don't become a better person for other people. Become a better person for yourself. As you said it, working hard and making money didn't bring you any closer to having sex with women. And working hard to become physically attractive could possibly make it easier to have sex with women (and give you an ego/confidence boost) But having sex with lots of women won't bring you happiness either. No other person will "complete you" (if being completed by another person even existed.) until your happy and satisfied with yourself. Make decisions that make life worthwhile for you.

                [–]Futdashukup 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Power? Its an aphrodisiac, dontcha know.

                [–]Questionnaire7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                This is not true. Unless .25, .3, .4, .5, etc are on the scale. In my last math class I sat next to a hot ass chick. She gave me a lot of IOIs initially ended up rejecting me and getting very offended the time she asked me to do the Lab Assignment with her and I said we should do it at my house (did not see me as a sexual option). Yet she was very receptive to everything else about me. Compare me with the dweeb dude that sat infront of us, he would have been a 0. There was one day he said something to her, she had a look of digest and did not respond. Then I essentially repeated the same line with my own twist and she was laughing and smiling. So yes there is some logic to this but it is not night and day.

                To girls you are invisible or visible, but there are a lot of visible guys they are going to turn down. Plus no matter how attractive you become there will always be some girls that dont want you. No matter what.

                [–]Forcetobereckonedwit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Kudos on the new food habits! Before long you'll forget why you even liked that crap. The healthier youeat/exercise, the better you feel and less you crave sugar/fat/salt. Also, keep at the gym/yoga/MMA, whatever floats your boat...just do SOMETHING physical.

                It's funny, women complain endlessly that we only like them if they're hot. You're complaining that they don't want you unless you're hot...the difference is YOU CAN BECOME HOT in girl terms. Solid lifestyle, shrp dress-er, physically fit, well groomed, funny, confident. These are the things that women consider hot and they are all things you can create. Sure, they also crave tall guys (%&#$%%$#, I'm not tall) but aside from that and racial preferences, we as men can change ourselves to become desirable to women. They have a 20 year window of sexual attractivity IF they keep themselves in shape and dress to invite. We just get better and better.

                You're on the right track, just keep at it.

                [–]Afrotoast42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                It's because women are shopping for what they want their future children to look like. Trust me. I've dated about 35 chicks in my lifetime. The ones who want you, DIG IN HARD and turn psycho when you leave them, often dipping into sociopathy for a while. The ones who only want a shag will stick around until they begin to contemplate their future, and then will dump you to find someone that matches what they want their babes to look like. My last ex was one of these. Ended things suddenly after 6 months when a red-headed neckbeard took interest in her(he was my coworker). things ended between them fast, and then she went off the deep end hard, swore off all men, and went pseudo lesbian for a while, continued to spiral down, gained about 30 pounds, and is now an owner of 2 squirrels, 2 cats, a rabbit, and a husky. She asked months ago why i stopped being friends with her, and I replied that friends don't treat each other like tools. never messaged me back again.

                [–]Cheeesetoasties 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Good work on the self improvement, I've been doing the same myself. Just remember to do it for you and not some other person. I made that mistake and my motivation wavered.

                [–]FamineX 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                Don't be bitter. I'm on my journey from almost 300 lbs to 200 (6"3 with the broad build). You will notice changes in behavior every 30 lbs or so. With this often comes a lifestyle change that will also brighten you up - picking up MMA classes or anything similar will help. Regardless of your success, you need to drop that anger and depression bullshit. Would you date a landwhale? Probably not, so why do you expect beautiful women to like fat motherfuckers? If I want to bed fit women, I better be fit myself.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Yea i didnt know that until literally right now i thought theyd still like me cuz of my job and money. Realizing that now. My bad i'm fucking late to the game.

                I want to take mma but im a pussy. It could probably help with that too.

                [–]VickVaseline 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                You must be pretty muscular to be 5'9", 190lbs, and not be a lot more than 20% BF.

                Good on you, though. Brown rice saved my life.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                "It doesnt matter if she looks like shrek or she looks like arianny celeste, if she doesnt find you attractive she won't settle, she will move the fuck on."

                What I only recently truly accepted is that libido is not tied to a person's external looks.

                A fat girl is not attracted to a fat guy she can lock down. She is simply settling for him. Let's say a girl starts at 120 lbs and then she gains 5 lbs per month. What she finds attractive does not change after 2 years when she weighs over 200 lbs. She might marry a fat guy, but won't ever be into him.

                [–][deleted]  (15 children)

                [deleted]

                [–]slay_it_forward 15 points16 points  (5 children)

                Wrong. Fucking whores is completely unsatisfying. Women moaning, orgasming, enthusiastically sucking your dick, telling you they think about you when fucking other guys, that's satisfying.

                Whores actually have a negative effect on your inner game because you know she doesn't want to fuck you so it just makes you feel more worthless.

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                [deleted]

                  [–]destraht 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  In Ukraine I had countless massages from really sexy girls and in less frequented cities I was able to find places where they looked at me, smelled me and treated me like I was a foreigner rock star. There were probably five of them who made me feel really icky inside afterwards but then I just wouldn't see them again and with others I had a fantastic experience. I really upped my necking game as well and discovering and instantly knowing which type of girl she is and which places that she will accept a nibble and a kiss on and then working on that until they were in heat and some of them would let me do a bunch of things. Totally rad after drinking with my friend or just after a days work. Then the normal girls come naturally when they come. Tons of fun and dramatically safer and feels amazing.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Who gives a fuck about whether she's faking it or not if she's making me cum!?

                  [–]JohnnyDildonics 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                  high class, porn star level prostitutes. just get it out of your system, it will really lower approach anxiety and thirst around hotter women.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                  I dont want to do this. I might be a homo fantasy loser or whatever but i want a connection with a girl and i want to know she WANTS me so she can have a orgasm, not so she can get monetary compensation.

                  [–]jm51 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                  Unless she is very slutty, getting an orgasm is way down on the list of why she fucks you the first few times.

                  They ALL get monetary compensation in some way or another. There is no such thing as a free jump. If she's worth fucking, even she doesn't get sex for free. You can be the sharpest dressed guy around for the same spend as what an average (feminine) woman spends on clothes, shoes, hairdressers, makeup etc.

                  [–]abbafishhead 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  That's the ultimate pedestalization of the pussy.

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [removed]

                  [–]Merwebb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  That batman suite seems better now

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Monetary wise = monitarily

                  [–]valjean913 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  Do the Atkins diet. I'm almost same body composition as you. 5'9", was 185 in February. I'm down to 165 and honestly it was a fairly easy diet. It's all fat loss too, I've lost 4" around my belly button. First time in my life I've dieted, and, like I said, it hasn't been hard at all. If you need to know where to get started send me a pm and I'll tell you what I've done recipe wise.

                  [–]Landry86 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                  True true true!!!!! You're either attractive or you're not.

                  And did you know we actually see females the same way? This is why we giggle when we find out y'all slept with a "butterface" "5" because we just see her as a zero! :)

                  [–]sunbro29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Yeah, I agree. I don't see this as a bad thing, though, as long as the man knows what he is to a particular girl. If you know you're a zero, fantastic, you don't have to waste another second with her. And if you're a one get ready to clap that ass.

                  [–]kidwithambition 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Life is binary, you are either a 1 or a 0.

                  Pretty much can go for anything, in this case a woman knows if she'll fuck you in the first couple minutes knowing you. 1 or 0, its that simple.

                  [–]SteveLonegan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Its definitely easier when they have an immediate physical attraction but its not as cut and dry as a 0-1 scale

                  [–]no_face 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                  If any of you think just race is a limiting factor, take a look at her Indian boyfriend

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]bolupua 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    I don't think it's that simple

                    Many many many girls will give their number, text you, go on dates with you, and never fuck you because you were a 0.5 and you fucked up and became a 0.

                    [–]BlueBlus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Do you mind posting a body pic? I'm same stats as you and am curious what I should look like at that weight since.

                    [–]hufflesnuff 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                    For fucks sake red pill make up your mind. Do women only fuck you if you have money or according to this won't fuck even if you have money ? Oh and guess what men have a 0 or 1 standard too. Would you fuck a 4 and not a 3? Then your 0-1 standard is just lower than others.

                    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Well i think women will appreciate you having money if they already find you attractive. If they don't find you attractive and you flaunt your money you are setting yourself up to get used.

                    Also, i have in the past any many of my friends have had sex with a girl we've considered a 0 because we just wanted to get our nut.

                    [–]abbafishhead 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Money is almost irrelevant in getting laid most of the time; I doubt in itself it would "make or break" your prospects at getting laid. What really "makes or breaks" your prospects is looks and not having beta traits. That's it. Take it from a guy with a triple-digit n-count.

                    [–]Snazzy_Serval 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                    Good luck with losing that body fat. Don't be disappointed if you don't hit your goal in 90 days.

                    I started at 5'5, 148.5 lbs @ 28.6% body fat. One year later I'm 142 @ 26%. I've been working out 3-4 days every week and trying to eat better.

                    This shit is not easy.

                    [–]slhouston 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    She's just not that into you. Works with men and women

                    [–]Merwebb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Dude i think women can like you for who you are if you are confident on it. You said it yourself, is NOT the money, and ive seen also that is NOT the physique too.

                    When i feel confident i at least k close. When im not, even the easier stuff with the most available women are impossible. Just like that.

                    Working out makes us confident. Attaining goals makes us confident.

                    Keep going.

                    [–]maniclurker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    The problem I have with accepting stuff like this, is how often I see legitimately ugly motherfuckers with decent looking girls.

                    If statements like this were true, then ugly people wouldn't even exist. Their ugly-assed genes wouldn't propagate. The world would be full of super-attractive people.

                    [–]StinkyDogFarts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    86 the feels. Stick to your plan. Keeping working. Keep striving. Focus on the career. In 8 years you will look on this and have a laugh with the sexy lady you are dating who is your age right now. Make yourself a better person and surround yourself with better people.

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