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Everything You Know About Emotions Is Wrong (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by G_Petronius

If I wrote a post on TRP stating that you should treat women like worthless fuckmeat and have not a care in the world for how they feel, I would get some flack by a portion of the audience but, all in all, I wouldn't raise too many eyebrows.

Instead, my aim today is trigger a larger slice of the public by talking about a subject that's far more taboo than extreme sexual nihilism: emotions. Your emotions, not women's emotions. The title is deliberately provocative for the same reason.

Guys don't talk about their emotions. They barely admit them to themselves. Our culture raises us to consider them things for sissies and, later on, an impediment to rational development. Half-baked self-improvement advice says or implies that you should disregard, silence or deaden your emotion, instead becoming a being of pure reason and willpower.

I think that's a big crock of bullshit; what's more, actual advice never tells you to hate or fuck with your emotions. Stoicism, which is pretty in vogue here, certainly doesn't. But misconceptions abound, especially in the comment section but also in some threads, and it's high time we face them.

I'm going to do that Luther-style, with a series of theses:

Thesis 1: emotions have an evolutionary origin and purpose

This should be self-evident to those practiced in TRP. Such a fundamental mechanism would NOT exist without an evolutionary purpose.

Thesis 2: the purpose of your emotions is to elicit and strengthen evolutionarily-necessary responses and behaviors

Yes, your almighty rationality can (given proper education and time to think about it) tell you what to do. But cavemen had neither education nor time; their pre-human ancestors didn't have the rationality to begin with. They had to rely on their emotions and base instincts to make it in the pitiless evolutionary rat race: survive, pass on your genes, help your kids do the same.

Thesis 3: that purpose is still relevant, that function still useful in the modern world

"But" I hear some say "we no longer live as primitives; we have rationality; we can move beyond". And I say: that's true, in a specific sense. You should certainly rely on your reason, not your emotions, to set your strategies and goals, to direct your behavior. But you should not, nor can, do away with emotions. Their function still remains strong in sustaining and strengthening useful behaviors, while opposing and counteracting negative ones. I'll illustrate how in the following theses.

Thesis 4: the use of emotions

In the modern day and age, emotions still have uses:

  • strengthening and stimulating useful behaviors: lust, for example, produces both useful physiological changes (such as a deepening of the voice) and psychological ones (such as a lowering of inhibitions); anger highlights injustices and prepares you for confrontation; happiness stimulates you to repeat useful behaviors

  • highlighting truths you may be hiding from yourself: if you feel stressed, upset, fearful, there may be (and for most people there definitely are) truths which you're hiding from your conscious consideration or haven't uncovered yet; for example, if you systematically feel disgusted about starting your day, it's probably because you know that your daily activities aren't bringing you closer to your objectives, something you may well be hiding from yourself (and that most people do hide from themselves)

Thesis 5: the limits of rationality

Rationality is limited. Little by little, with a lot of work, it can enable you to understand everything; but, in actual practice, in many cases your rational self will be missing something, it will deceive itself about other things, it will have an ineffective mental model with which to frame others still. Bluepilled guys are not retarded: they've been given next to no effective education in sexual dynamics, have been conditioned to deceive themselves about relationships, and generally hide their own feelings of dissatisfaction from themselves.

In all these cases, a frank assessment of your emotional imprint can help uncover something going on. This isn't some freakish irrational Freudian bullshit: it's simply recognizing that our brains evolved to solve "how do we kill that gazelle easier" and "how do I fuck Ug'Lucka", not "but why do I feel sexually frustrated even if I do everything society says"

Additionally, rationality is simply piss-poor in stimulating the physiological responses that are sometimes necessary: try telling your dick to get hard because the chick has good genetics.

Thesis 6: the true teaching about emotions

Many interpret stoicism to be a philosophy for people who want to have no emotions, who learn to suppress or contain them. Nothing could be further from the truth. Stoicism teaches you not to be ruled by your emotions, which means: do not take them at face value and act on their impulse. That does not mean you should ignore them; it means you should train yourself to recognize what they actually mean, and act appropriately.

Say you approach a girl. You feel afraid. Taking that at face value would mean concluding that you're afraid because the girl, or the act of walking up to her, does actual entail a frightening danger: ridiculous, right? your fear, in that case, highlights how you're not yet confident in your abilities, and also how you're still influenced by decades of social conditioning to be extremely careful around women, because anything you do could be interpreted as creepy or even criminal.

Stoicism doesn't teach you to shove your fear in a dark corner and not think about it; it teaches you to recognize it for what it is and to not be ruled by it, i.e. not to act on its impulse and flee from the interaction. It's interesting that this stoic teaching is very in line with a philosophy born thousands of miles away: the classic Buddhist meditative teaching regarding your emotions, which is to observe them as they are. Philosophies that strike a deep chord with human nature tend to converge on many of the basics.


What does this mean in actual practice? here's the practical advice:

  • make it a habit to routinely take stock of your emotions, without judging or acting; this is essentially half if not more of what you end up doing with meditation

  • in particular, take note of those emotions that don't logically fit with what you rationally think is your situation: are you feeling depressed despite making progress? it might be due to setting unrealistic expectations, or to having an important area of your life in which you're not progressing and about whose importance you're in denial

  • in the moment, make use of those emotions that aid you in your goals: celebrate your victories joyously, fuck with passion, fight with anger; don't think that you need to deaden yourself internally, the opposite is true

  • more importantly than anything else, if you come from a lifetime of treating your emotions as a nuisance or impediment: stop. They're a part of you with which Nature armed you for your use and profit. Like all natural faculties, it can be used in the wrong way, but most likely you've been afraid to use it at all, which is your bigger problem by far.


[–]canadianbacon22 164 points165 points  (4 children)

A great reminder that the human mind is the most powerful tool, yet the greatest burden we will ever have.

[–]j0hnan0n 96 points97 points  (2 children)

Emotions make excellent servants, but tyrannical masters. John Seymour.

[–]aanarchist -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

similar can be said of women, and of the sociopaths running the country.

[–]_arch_lion_daemo_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Meh, there's no challenge in being surrounded by servants and always being the highest power.

I know you probably didn't type your comment with serious intent, but I can't help but feel that it must be rather boring to be surrounded by servants, if you are not a leader with a purpose and all

[–]cornylamygilbert 6 points7 points  (0 children)

/U/G_Petronius

THIS is exact, enlightening, and empowering.

Impactful behavior accented with the appropriate emotion will shake the ground, send tingles down ppls spines and evokes that primitive response "this one is the leader"

Suppress and fake it all you want, lay some dames, but when done right, true power isn't evident in conscious reactions, its unmistakably instinctual.

Few can do it right. But if neck hairs stand on end when you bark, eyes raise to yours with your speech, smiles betray poker faces with your wit, and hearts melt with jealousy from your uncompromising tact in generosity, you are one of the few : leaders of men.

[–]insoucianc 54 points55 points  (16 children)

The key to functioning optimally in your endeavors is predicated by your physiology and environment. When we want a different result, we will first look at the behavior that led to that result without inferring further and seek to simply change the behavior. This is a natural inclination: for we choose to adjust our swing to hit the golf ball higher and further when we miss our mark, to study longer when we get low grades, to work longer hours at the same pay to make more money, to criticize and curate our method of action, which is all behavior is, in order to produce the desired result.

Know that in doing so you are incredibly unlikely to produce your desired result, though you will improve slightly: the golf ball will continue to miss its mark and fall a bit short, your grades will improve slightly but perhaps not enough, you will earn slightly more money but remain drained and on a restricted budget. This is because your behavior is not in line because the thoughts used to elicit the behavior are not in line with the result we desire; therefore we must train not only our behavior but the thoughts we use to manifest them.

To train our thoughts, we must first tame the feelings that manifest them. An often ignored prerequisite to thinking, memorizing, and understanding is feeling open to the information. When we feel closed off to the information we need to achieve the thoughts required to formulate the behavior needed to reach a goal we will never go anywhere, in fact we will actively fight against storing and accumulating information we feel opposed to both consciously and subconciously, experiencing what psychologists call dissonance and depression. This is largely why people actively vote against their own interests even when presented with information that would change their mind, because the gates of thought are closed off by the gates of feeling. This is largely why most of my students have incredible difficulty with math, because they already feel like they suck at it so they don't even bother trying to think of how it works from a purely logical standpoint.

So how do we open the gate of feeling? This is done by controlling ones emotions (I.e. Hunger, Anxiety, Fear, Joy, Love, Excitement, etc.) focusing on the ones that drive us towards our goals while ignoring the ones that drive us away. To understand emotions we must understand where they come from, for emotions are almost exclusively a neurochemical cause-and-effect relationship between stimulus and endorphin. Most people think that thoughts and feelings are the same, but there is strong neurological evidence to support their dimorphism.

Finally, to control our emotions, the karmic nature of the soul that responds to stimulus, we must control and augment our physiology. This is done by giving the temple of the soul, the body, regular maintenance and fuel. Diet, exercise, and skin care are essential in this endeavor; for these activities manifest the well from which we draw dopamine, cortisol, adrenaline, testosterone/estrogen, melatonin, serotonin, etc. which are the endorphins that control our metabolism, mood, and mental health which allow us to feel satisfied emotionally, which allows us to feel at peace and prepared, which allows us to think clearly and consider new information, which allows us to change our behavior, which allows us to produce a desired result and meet our goals.

Once you take this bottom-up approach you will see that the pieces of your life fit together cohesively and stress/anxiety will plummet. It goes as follows:

Take care of Physiology -> Emotion -> Feeling -> Thought -> Behavior -> Action/Result

This is how your body and brain are made to work. For instance, it's very difficult to study hard for a test if you're hungry and thirsty, because these baser instincts tell you that physiology is not in order, which is signaled to your brain via your spinal column and sympathetic nervous system, which makes you feel distracted, which makes it hard to think about and understand the information, which leads to poor studying behavior no matter how hard you stare at the page, which leads to poor grades on the test. It's very difficult to land a competitive high paying job if the underlying factors that guide the behavior needed to land the job aren't in harmony with the desired goal. Take care of the body and you take care of the mind, take care of the mind and you take care of the soul, take care of the soul and you take care of your universe.

This also works on a societal level, laying the foundation for how we interact and thrive as a civilization, society, tribe, and group; for man mirrors humanity and humanity mirrors man. But that will have to be for a different comment/post.

[–]Landry86 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Beautifully stated and much better than the OP in my opinion

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would say this, building on the structure you provided for myself (resembling the old often quoted quote among other things like the needs pyramid)

Physiology: sleep, exercise, breathing, food, homeostasis (like temperature, shelter, clothes), secretion, and sex.

All of these you can control to a degree that's good. Some people might say fasting is a good way to control hunger. Some say the less sleep you get the more you adapt.

The level of physiology needs may be individualized and that's up to you determine wisely... A person should watch for excess or too little of something. Short breath makes you tired and too much food makes you constipated.

Some people half ass these their whole life. It builds up.

Emotion: I would say just control your breathing. Once you realize what frame you would like to keep (based on different experiences... and the habits you develop based on those experiences) then it's easier to keep frame.

See, it is as if you're reminded of how cringe-worthy devoting excessive attention to a girl is from your past experiences (who would kick you in the balls metaphorically and literally, sometimes just to compensate for their own insecurities)... Then... you would always try to keep your calm, which leads you to develop your attention on your breaths. Your breaths, the thing you have till you die; they're always there in a sense. Your past experience has became a cue.

I would categorize feelings with emotions but that is just me. And a note: having frame is like having a deep sense of security within yourself. You know what works from experience, first or second hand.... OR/and you know the logic and the wisdom from a generation past.

And at this point people would say... any money, after having yourself secure, might be a waste to accumulate; I won't get into it. I'm broke.

Thought: You can think more rationally after working your way up, which leads to you taking action and getting results. If you're more objective and can come up with a plan, then you're more likely to follow order than chaos.

I say at this point, this is when you have great friends. You have a definite sense of how you fit in a society in a positive way. You're more independent because you have developed your logical faculties and accumulated experiences (first or second hand). This is the stage where you can begin to make a difference and influence other people more, as you wish.

Can you influence others without taking care of your own physiological needs? Sure. But a girl with yellow teeth ain't going to kiss me while I like it. And an emotionally abused woman ain't going to play catch with me. But a woman who knows her place and can intuitively tell apart the superficial from the real? That's insane. A woman who can cut through the bs of the feminine propaganda, who realizes that being submissive have it's merits, as much as being dominate... that requires a man to truly appreciate. A man who appreciates truth and creativity. Creativity to not take things at face value, but to test ideas your own way before reaching a definite (life altering, many years wasting) conclusion. And truth not clouded by judgement and a need to showcase your masculinity by flashing nipple rings shaped like guns, am I going too far?

I would add to this that it's important to have thought paradigms that gives you greater chances of success in whatever you want than having random thoughts. Be familiar with triumph and failure and treat those two suckers the same. Ask questions and think about what can be instead of what ought to be. Find creative ways to do things instead of sticking to what's familiar and accepted. Things as these outlined in many books and people's experiences... At one point I think this was the point of the bible as the 7 deadly sins or what a person ought to do etc etc. Judge for yourself, sometimes accept two contrary ideas at once but make a compromise...

[–]juanappleseed 0 points1 point  (10 children)

Really good info in here. But I would say don't ignore your emotions. Accept them and treat one that isnt helping you like fear of being seen, like your own child. Tell yourself that that part of you can go home and have its needs met and be safe while the adult part of you will take care of these logistics and take care of you and make sure you are safe.

It mends the dissonance that stops us from being successful and happy because you give attention to all parts of yourself or subpersonalities or desire sets and you hear them all meet their needs through imagination or otherwise and this clears the road from self sabotage.

I think it's really important to get rid of the idea that we are one person. We are made up of many archetypal instinctual personality sets or selves that come out when we feel different ways or are exposed to different situations.

They all need to be heard or just like a toddler that you ignore whenever it is bad, it will hate you and hate itself over time as you have conditioned it to always be needily seeking your love by changing who he is, which of course causes that initial schism and dissonance in the first place.

Paradoxically accepting that you are different selves will allow you to be the most whole and successful being because you aren't shaming or ignoring and not giving love and acceptance to any part of yourself.

Ignoring will work in the short term but long term it will all come crashing down on you from all the shit you have continued to repress.

Pretty out there from our society's standpoint but the shit works VERY well.

Ignoring kids and how they feel leads to adults who do the same things to themselves and others. This is why so many men are so desperately needy. Their instinctual need for unconditional love wasn't met so now they have to get any way they can, no matter how desperate it may come across.

It's really fucking sad actually.

[–]insoucianc 2 points3 points  (9 children)

Interesting points. I agree, perhaps it would be better if I said to observe Feelings rather than Emotions and to react to them accordingly but I would also say that these emotions are predicated by the environment in which you perceive them. It is very important that we draw a clear line between emotions and feelings, as they are often confused and I should be very careful as to not intertwine them. While Emotion is created by specific neurological signals such Hunger, Anxiety, Fear, etc. a feeling is a general assessment of these signals Happy, Sad, Neutral. Each of our emotions is really just an array of neurological signals that are sequenced by our cortical and somatic structures within our brains, relying upon a sort of hierarchy of information relaying and processing within certain "sub-brains". These are namely the hindbrain, midbrain, and forebrain, or, as I like to call them due to their chronological development, the reptilian brain, primate brain, and human brain. These also give credence to your ideas regarding the stratification of the soul, for we do process information differently in different parts of brain simultaneously where the decision we ultimately make is delegated largely by our reticular activation system in the hindbrain and midbrain. Our brain is also split into hemispheres that can operate largely independent of another, as if we have two brains but only one of them can vocalize thoughts with speech. The fact that we have any semblance of a cohesive identity at all is rather miraculous and borderline impossible for us to replicate via brute force computation methods.

In regards to the subbrains, if I might opine, I'd like to explain those a bit more before I address the rest of your comment regarding how this mental Mandelbrot affects us as men.

Really we can think of it from the growth of the binary Reptilian Brain, to the quaternary Primate Brain, to the superpositionary Human Brain. The Will of the Reptilian Brain is dictated primarily by Dopamine and Cortisol, the risk-and-reward system on a self-interested level. The Will of the Primate Brain is dictated primarily by Oxytocin and Serotonin, the prisoner's dilemma system on a self- and else-interested level. The Will of the Human Brain is dictated primarily by Wisdom and Intelligence, a mixture of all Four of these Neurotransmitter "elements" into complex forms and ideas.

The interplay of these and other neurotransmitters creates our emotions which then create our feelings, (such as happy, sad, excited, disappointed, etc.), which then creates our thoughts, which then creates our behavior and actions. Thus, if our emotions are taken care of, then we should feel taken care of and so on. However, due to how heavily these Emotions are reliant on our physiology which is reliant on our environment, I would advise being mindful of how you feel without focusing on the factors that actually create those feelings in the first place: the brain, body, and background.

Often times, we choose not to control our brain, body, and background to a very high degree and thus I think it is important to be shrewd in what feelings we choose to engage and ignore unless we are taking care of the staircase between our souls and our reality that is buttressed upon the bridge constructed by the discrete physical facets of our person that emanate as our mind, body, and environment.

Finally, in regards to how we as men can best navigate this landscape of love, all things considered, is to merely be successful at being both sovereign and social. It is not a tragedy, we are merely in a timeline where the pendulum is swinging towards self-sacrifice and we will move further towards self-reliance and eventually self-actualization. Once we realize that we are all one being, the self, the pendulum will swing back towards realization that we are also distinct and separate, the else, allowing us to love and understand our neighbors because we see them as we see ourselves. This has been known as the East-West cycle, it happens every 500 years or so and we can actually even see it's effects economically in countries that take to the Eastern vs. Western philosophy by which they get their name. Remain prudent and vigilant, for you feel as we all feel, and in knowing this you will see that you are more limitless now than you have perceived that your soul has perhaps ever been.

[–]Taker_of_insulin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is some good discussion going on here.

[–]juanappleseed 0 points1 point  (7 children)

lol the way you talk reminds me of my friend.

so basically, be shrewd with what attention you give to feelings so you can make the right decision when it really matters, but also give time to yourself to do integration and compassion work where you give space for all of it so you can come to feel comfortable and whole again. which will set you up for being more emotionally healthy so that you can be more shrewd when you need to be in the future because your old undealt with emotions are not knocking on your door causing you to react.

[–]insoucianc 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Yes. Ideally we would want to just manipulate our environment outright to our liking but we can currently only do this in the matrix of the mind at our current level of conciousness, so in lieu of this we must instead adapt our physiology to best thrive in the environment in which we are placed, which will adapt our emotion, which will adapt our feelings, which will adapt our thoughts, which will adapt our behaviors, which will adapt our actions, which will adapt our environment, which will adapt our physiology, etc. etc.

The dream is to be able to dream while we are awake, that is to manipulate our reality at will. However, until you can reach a certain level of consciousness it will be difficult to see the staircase looping back into itself, for we perceive ourselves as observers of our reality rather than it's primary agents.

I err on the side of caution with feelings because they are reliant on chemicals in our brain that are released to allow our physiology to reach homeostasis with our environment. If you don't deal with the stimulus in your physical reality that creates the feelings then they will persist no matter how much you ignore them, but because we cannot always control the stimulus, we must thus adapt by being shrewd to what we feel and what stimuli created the response. It's all rather mechanical and by understanding the process we can control it and even feel anything we like as long as we are willing and able to control the physical stimulus that creates the feeling, the ultimate goal of any conscious life form.

[–]juanappleseed 0 points1 point  (3 children)

but that's the thing. You don't have to ignore them. You can recognize and hold space for an emotion that won't motivate you to act ideally without reacting to it. Ignoring it is suppressing it. Unless you are using the term ignoring differently.

and actually emotions can pass using this system without a change to your external environment. It's the paradox of accepting how you feel. It will pass if you accept it. And like I said before you can literally talk to the self that feels the feeling that won't help you and tell it it can do what it wants and imagine yourself doing what it wants. Our subconscious doesn't know the difference between what we imagine doing and what we actually do as far as the impact on your emotional or feeling state. Seriously, try that shit out. It's so effective I couldn't believe it.

What you resist persists in my experience. Though resisting will work in the short term it's not an effective long term strategy unless you are in a sort of crisis mode or even an intensely focused flow state.

Basically I'm saying for maximum effectiveness use the system I have written out in general, unless it's fucking crush it warrior mode then your narrow intense focus will drown out the emotion. Which is extremely useful in spurts.

Biological example is that if you continue to ignore the feelings/emotions than your body will produce too much cortisol because you controlling things is inherently stressful, and if you are doing it as your rule of thumb you are going to get fucked up over time if you never allow for complete allowance and surrender and compassionate inner dialogue. This makes room for more flow states actually and therefore more success and happiness as your effort becomes less effortful if that makes sense. There's more effortless flow because your emotions are congruent with your work or actions.

If a zebra runs away from a predator once every couple days, then it will make it more capable of doing it in the future. But it must spend a good amount of time chilling and accepting whatever is, otherwise it will fatigue and its max output and enjoyment of life will be compromised to the point of likely death.

The extreme is basically PTSD.

Shit is complicated to master and know when to do what and how much in whatever situation. But what I DO know is how important it is to do both if not every day than at least have "seasons" of life where you do more and then relax and surrender and accept more. Like being asleep and being awake.

[–]insoucianc 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I think we have the same definition of ignore, at this point we're just arguing semantics. Ignore to me is to observe without engaging.

Adam Smith had a good quote in regards to this along the lines of, "The Mark of a wise man is the ability hold a thought without accepting it."

However, I would err on the side of caution on just letting yourself be moved and meandered by every/any feeling that comes your way, it turns your soul into a slave to your neurotransmitters and obfuscates reason. Your idea would certainly be ideal if we lived in a world ruled by emotion that then creates logic, rather than a world ruled by logic that then creates emotion. I think the best approach is to understand, logically, where the feelings come from so that you can change the stimulus that gives rise to the emotional response and to then change it. This is because, as I stated, our emotions and thus feelings are predicated by our physical environment and genetic programming, and while you can certainly influence your perception of your physical environment through your imagination, it is an incredibly uphill battle and one that, if ingratiated without reprieve, will only serve to remove you from the physical reality around you until you get a wake-up call on your death bed that you spent your life living in your own head rather than in the world around you.

Clearly you're just advocating a balance between the two, let's call it logic and emotion, which I certainly agree with, but I hope I've elucidated a bit on why a compulsion to rhetoric and feelings is just as dangerous, if not moreso, as logic.

As an aside, I also think it's worth mentioning that Serotonin (the neurotransmitter associated with pride, confidence, feeling of belonging to a group) overrides Cortisol (neurotransmitter associated with fear, stress, anxiety) production and Oxytocin (neurotransmitter associated with love, altruism, empathy) lasts exponentially longer than Dopamine (neurotransmitter associated with the temporary reward feeling or "high" we get from accomplishing tasks).

In short, the neurotransmitters associated with working as a group and caring for said group are much more potent and longer lasting than the neurotransmitters associated with short term self-preservation and stress. This is something to take into account for man is not an island and on his own can fall into disarray. Not only that, but our feelings are far more mechanical and causal than we tend to realize.

[–]juanappleseed 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Seems like we agree generally. We just have different ways of describing and thinking about it. Be careful with being rule by either emotion or logic, do your best to integrate the two to best serve your life, your community, and fulfillment in general. If you integrate them you can make much much better judgment calls not out of reactivity but from a place of choice. Generally speaking.

[–]insoucianc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Indeed, emotion and logic can be thought of merely as different steps on the same escalator and upon which one should wish to tread shrewdly.

[–]J_AsapGem 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Very interesting topic i'm just trying to understand more, how can we control our physical stimuli? it's basically a reaction to something that happens in your surrounding and mostly your body just react a certain way, example if you see your mother crying that would affect you immediately without your doing and you may feel sad or worried.. unless you're hyperconscious of your being and the occurrence of physical stimuli, i've always thought that our react reflexively to physical stimulus and then we control our feelings according after that occurs but please elaborate more on the point i've never seen this point of view before and would like to learn more.

[–]insoucianc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's actually a cycle, we are our environment and vice-versa. Your consciousness isn't limited to your physical body.

Environment -> Physiology -> Emotion -> Feeling -> Thought -> Action! -> Environment -> Physiology -> Emotion -> Feeling -> Thought -> Action! -> etc.

Actions are our way of changing the physical stimulus/environment, which is, in actuality, us, because our environment/physical reality is actually just both the cause and effect of our conciousness moving in cycles between the external to internal world and back again.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 34 points35 points  (20 children)

 

The Trivium Method (the only true rationality) carefully uses emotions in a protected environment (Frame) so as to not permit outside influence to corrupt your understanding.

This means with the Trivium Method it works like:

 

  • Stage One - No Emotions as you gather evidence. (an Open Mind, no triggers)

 

  • Stage Two - Emotions are used in your understanding of the evidence gathered in Stage One, but you use a strong Frame to prevent outside influence like peer pressure from corrupting your outcome. You "Think for Yourself" and "Follow your Gut" with your "Gut" meaning your emotions.

 

  • Stage Three is simply sharing what wisdom you gained.

 

It's a pretty simple sequence but the vast majority of people on earth cannot keep the stages separate. Once you allow emotions into Stage One and begin to censor evidence you are screwed. If you allow peer pressure into Stage Two you are screwed. Stage Three is garbage if One and Two are done wrong, so "shared wisdom" can end up not being so.

 

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp 12 points13 points  (7 children)

The Trivium Method (the only true rationality)

You are certifiably delusional.

[–]Riddlebottom 8 points9 points  (2 children)

You're only getting that now? NeoreactionSafe is one of the most bizarre cranks I've ever seen on the Internet. I guess being a conspiracy theorist who thinks psychologists are secretly plotting to brainwash mankind into worshipping Satan is a "positive identity for men" though.

[–]RedPharaohRising 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He has done interesting beliefs, many that I find weird or downright delusional. But he's right about this. Stage one is when you listen to the evidence and form a Theory based on facts. Stage two is analyzing how do I feel about this and why? Final stage is how am I going to proceed in light of the results from stages one and two.
If you let emotion get into stage one, you can't learn from it.
If you force yourself to feel something else, you can't analyze the why you feel that way part.

[–]Endorsed ContributorScholarInRed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think he's definitely far from the norm, and aberrant on many positions. I also think this is a deliberate strategy of his, and one which is in itself highly valuable.

I don't agree with some of what he says. But when I do agree, I usually find he is overwhelmingly accurate, has practically zero compliant tendencies and so he delivers truth in generous portions. His intelligence is evident and needs no comment.

The logic is simple. Most people live in a delusion more comfortable than reality. So to deliberately deviate from every common position is one way of potentially approaching a more realistic position. Of course, everyone has their blind spots, and mistrust of authority/common rhetoric (invaluable, by the way) will often lead to paranoia which is not realistic. This is where I usually disagree as he may tend to conspiratorial positions.

I think he's an invaluable addition to the sub. You could put him in any echo chamber and he will fuck that shit up, trampling over every delusion in sight, causing people to question and think for themselves. You're in for a hell of a ride when you see his handle around here. There's also a reason he's endorsed.

[–]do_it_or_leave 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Feel free to expand your thoughts.

I can't tell if you have a good reasoning behind your remark.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (8 children)

Stage Three is generally where I fuck up. In Marketing, they like to share with their "target market". I'm never that particular, which breaks one of the 48 Laws. People take my ideas and boiled down opinions as their own, and give me no credit. So now, Stage Three for me is write it down and save for an opportune time.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 7 points8 points  (7 children)

Stage Three is optional.

If you want power you never give shared wisdom to others because that means you lose the advantage.

As Lucifer said:

 

  • "Better to rule in hell than serve in heaven."

 

By completing the Trivium fully you are "serving heaven" because you are doing your best to transfer Natural Law to others.

Withholding wisdom is what creates the Blue Pill "hell on earth".

So when you withhold you in a subtle way are "serving as a slave to Lucifer".

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/RWS_Tarot_15_Devil.jpg

 

...those become your chains.

 

[–]UnmaskedVillain 4 points5 points  (1 child)

That's not at all what that quote means... Rather that it is better to be master of yourself in hell than a slave in paradise. If you're going to quote Milton can you not butcher him. It's not about serving heaven, it's 'serving in heaven'. It's not a judgement of good vs bad, rather freedom vs servitude. You've literally taken a quote and twisted it to your own frankly bullshit argument. "When you withold you in a subtle way are "serving as a slave to Lucifer" ? What are you even trying to say? The only reason you shouldn't share wisdom is because "Knowledge is power." If you share your wisdom you are sharing power, end of. Not some serving Lucifer bullshit, from someone who never even read Paradise Lost.

[–]NeoreactionSafe -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It's true the people who follow the Dark path don't typically realize they add to the hellishness of the earth.

These guys got into it pretty good recently:

https://youtu.be/hKsTNdAJK7k

 

[–]sumethreuaweiei 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Here's the problem; even if you never want to share, people can and will cut you off for being a leech. The best way to get help is to give help. It's give-and-take, and real networking happens when you have something to offer

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

It's a commitment and favor game. People hate to be in debt. Our society dictates that when someone does you a favor, you return the favor at some point in the future. And you can trick someone into being indebted to by giving them a 'gift' then expecting a favor.

Some examples,

You're at a bar and see a pretty girl. You haven't said a word to her yet, but open with 'Can I buy you a drink?' Her first thought is going to be 'What did I do to deserve this drink? What does he expect for this drink?' There's only one answer to this question

A less obvious example: A follower of Krishna (Hinduism) give their mark a rose, as a 'gift', then ask for a small donation for their Church. Because they did you the favor of 'gifting' you a rose, societal pressure dictates you reciprocate that favor. You give the Hindu 2 dollars and throw the rose away in a trashcan down the block. Another Hindu collects roses from trashcans to reuse on their next mark.

An even less obvious example, I'm contributing content to this sub because I expect members with more knowledge than I do to reciprocate with their own content. Money isn't the only currency. There are also 'favor banks', and favor banks are the bread and butter of networking.

[–]sumethreuaweiei 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd enjoy more detail/discussion on this because the problem doesn't lie with the favors themselves — it's giving too much and thereby becoming less valuable once you've shared what you know. That's part of how the "mystery" value comes in with keeping to yourself

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

There's a dichotomy, but it seems to be two cards dealt in favor of the dealer one way or another. Greek Fire. If you share it openly, you become compromised. If you guard it too closely, you lose it in successive generations. What's a society to do?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Scrutinize by moral merit. That means that if someone has individual merit and he shares it the dynamics in place rewards him, so there is more sharing.

Nowadays we are scrutinized by moral demerit so it all gets upside down, and infacts we see society crumbling at the most base levels (like male-female sexual interactions becoming quite random based on just attraction). A society doesn't exist, there are the people grouping together for it. Society is ethereal. The moment the basic incentives get dumped for people to want to keep the status quo, it's wholly shattered. We are playing along a delusion in this regard. Keep it for others, throw it away for yourself. Else find the strength and resources to create a new one. Quite difficult to be honest.

Nietzsche said "dangerous times make growth for dangerous men" and we are exactly at that.

[–]RedPharaohRising 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You wanna make a post about this? I'd like to if not.
If you do, I recommend removing the One True Rationality part. The label detracts from the credibility.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Trivium Method will survive no matter what "credibility issues" it suffers.

I did one post a few weeks ago... go ahead and do another but research it first.

http://triviummethod.org/dark-negative-and-limited-trivium-language-and-reality-pt-4/

...there is the Dark and the Light versions.

One gets you to Truth, the other steers you towards the Dark. (Blue Pill mythology direction... blindness)

I'd advise watching this:

https://youtu.be/hKsTNdAJK7k

 

[–]ThatOneNinja 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I have actually had troubles tryin to date some women because I am not afraid to just tell em how I feel and why. It is pretty unusual and often "scared" them away. I soon learned its all about when to share and when not too. That changed a lot for me.

[–]InwardLooking 5 points6 points  (0 children)

...and there's this thing called polarizing. Some people you want to scare off. Keeps you from wasting time on chicks that weren't diggin the real you anyway.

[–]Frigzy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree with what you wrote. In fact, I wrote a post like this a few days ago.

Some dude told me it was written by someone who doesn't eat meat, whatever that's supposed to mean.

All I'm saying is, good luck getting this message accross, it seems many here still let their egos lead them on.

[–]heelface 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sarek of Vulcan would like you

[–]SlippinJimmii 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great post, stoicism is the approach of accepting and working with the natural law not fighting it. As you point out we are pleasure seeking and emotionally driven creatures and in spite of this can act on logical thought. The stoic observes how an event effects his emotion, he does so without judgment or attempt to alter his reaction and is able to act from there with clear mind and not the throws of whichever emotion he is experiencing.

I believe a healthy balanced life is an application of both emotional experience and logic. Attempting to suppress or ignore emotions is unhealthy and futile in my experience. It should be taught that the bravest of us aren't the ones who experience no fear, but those who act heroically in the face of it. Some people assume the brave never experience fear because they cant imagine themselves acting correctly when they feel fear.

It is truly a sad state when young boys are taught that their feeling are wrong by their mothers. They assume as they never see men cry that to be a man you musn't feel sadness. Some people can live their whole lives scolding themselves when they feel negative emotions as a result. Healthy masculinity is the acceptance and overcoming of emotions, not the suppressing.

[–]1ozaku7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Evolution is nothing than a natural "trail and error". You take one thing, make 10 variations of it and see what works best in the environment you put it in. Sometimes evolution has no purpose and it's just the average of all the other useless mutations.

I'm okay with evolutionary theories, but it's much simpler than people think. If you throw a million rocks down a perfectly round hill at the same time, the roundest will get the furthest and first to the bottom.

[–]Jloch98 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Although in the past men have been ridiculed for experiencing emotions, I don't see it much anymore. I've never had anybody do the same to me nowadays.

[–]no_face 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Thesis is a big word to ascribe to a couple of paragraphs, but you make some good points

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are multiple definitions of the word, one of which relates to writing a long dissertation, and another being an idea or theory that is expressed as a statement. The latter is being used in this post.

[–]aigamithite 2 points3 points  (0 children)

/u/G_Petronius I don't know what it is about you, but this and your previous post on this subject are exactly what I have been thinking about the last week. It reads as if I wrote it myself.

On top of this high quality post, I would add that you can train your emotions, through experience and conscious practice. By accepting them without fighting them and telling yourself they are normal, you can completely change your emotional response, over time. The entire mentality you described, also serves in making your emotions abate and smoothen out.

Thank you.

[–]trp_dude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

you should treat women like worthless fuckmeat and have not a care in the world for how they feel

Well, we shouldn't care how they feel, but treating them like worthless fuckmeat is a reflection of yourself. If you're confident in yourself, you don't need to treat women like that. In fact, that kind of attitude is useful only if you need to push them down in order to feel OK about yourself. Natural alphas don't do that.

If you read Models, you will see that being in touch with your emotion is the best and only way to be a true alpha, because only by being comfortable with yourself will you exude the confidence that can't be faked. Hiding emotions is what betas do, because they're afraid that they will get hurt. Alphas don't give a fuck what other people think about them.

[–]francie-brady 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Emotions are markers used to stamp thinks that should make great impressions in memory. You don't remember everything that happens, but those moments when emotion is present you're more likely to remember.

[–]atraw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Emotion is a thought process not recognised by conscience. It is primal, animal logic, evolutionary preceding conscience.

[–]AlexGM77 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a great post, thank you! Recently, there has been a fascination for psychopaths because of TV shows such as Dexter and books like the wisdom of psychopaths. The theory goes that psychopaths are superior to the rest of us because they can be fearless, have no remorse, calculate and act without emotion etc. This may be true to some extent, but I also believe like OP argues that our emotions are here for evolutionary reasons. Emotions and instincts may have shortcomings but remain nonetheless very useful to guide our decisions and guarantee our survival in a world which is too complex for our limited rational brain to fully comprehend. Especially when it comes to social interactions.

[–]SiulaGrande 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thank you so much for these posts, petronius. new knowledge is a breath of fresh air. please keep it up, ill show you my tits on omegle

[–]2virusofthemind 0 points1 point  (0 children)

more importantly than anything else, if you come from a lifetime of treating your emotions as a nuisance or impediment: stop. They're a part of you with which Nature armed you for your use and profit. Like all natural faculties, it can be used in the wrong way, but most likely you've been afraid to use it at all, which is your bigger problem by far.

Wise words. Your emotions evolved with two main remits.

1/ To help you survive.

2/ To help you procreate.

There are four reasons why you "think" they're an impediment or nuisance to your greater plan.

A/ Discrepancy between ancestral and modern environments.

Your emotions are working correctly but may seem maladaptive due to the difference between the ancestral environment and now.

B/ Subjective distress produced by the normal operation of functional mechanisms.

You maybe upset about something that's happened to you but your brain wants you to be upset so you don't make the same mistake again.

C/ Normal mistakes accompanying the “on average” functioning of a mechanism.

Your emotions think long term. Inferring sexual intentions when they aren't there on average gets you laid more times than not doing so.

D/ Socially undesirable behavior produced by the normal operation of functional mechanisms.

You may think that some of your behaviours are maladaptive or dysfunctional and even feel guilt for them, but chances are they exist in a subset of the population because at some time in the distant past those behaviours increased your chances of survival or procreation (psychopathy being the obvious one).

So relax, emotions are your friends, they just need a bit of guidance by your cognitive brain to operate correctly in your own individual circumstances.

[–]TooMuchToDoo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think an important aspect to self-improvement is not only the ability to recognize your emotions, but also to recognize if you as a person either lack emotion or have an excess of emotion. Some need to use their emotions more, and others, vice-versa. I'm sure we've all seen both sides of the spectrum, where on one side we see the borderline autistic, and the other side we see the borderline ape letting his emotions control him. Recognizing where you are on that spectrum may be the first step in mastering stoicism.

[–]odayman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't like the way you write, couldn't put that aside for the sake of what you're actually writing.

[–]rpwunder -1 points0 points  (1 child)

What does this mean for us?

[–]bionichydra 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Look at the last part with the bulletpoints, emotions can be taken advantage of to give greater meaning to something, the big thing being life made up of the events you experience during them.