457

What science actually says about physical attraction (with actual science inside) (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by G_Petronius

A post recently shot up to the top of this subreddit called "Brutal redpill that no one here ever talks about, how physically attractive you REALLY are, as judged by science and women"

From the title, one would expect it to actually contain science. Instead, it's a bunch of cherry picked photos pitting bathroom selfies by uggos with muscular bodies against professional shots of celebrities and male models with less muscular bodies, leading to the conclusion that muscularity doesn't matter and chicks will always want to fuck the pretty boy with a cute face.

Now, I shouldn't have to say why the comparison as presented is bullshit. You take your average gym rat and, I guarantee, from the 2000 flexing bathroom selfies in his camera roll there won't be a single one where he focuses on his face. Not a single one. All his concentration is on highlighting that new feature he worked so hard to bring out and define, because that's what the gym rat cares about. Meanwhile, the celebrity and the male model have professional stylists slavishly curating every detail of their appearance, as well as professional lighting and pro photographers with pro equipment. You also only see the good shots where they had the best angles and expression. Of course they're going to look better, they have entire crews of people and tens of thousands of dollar of equipment dedicated to just that.

So what does science actually say about physical attraction?

The topic is not exactly new to TRP, but given how quickly that other post shot up it's clear a refresher is in order.

Attraction changes with the menstrual cycle and the purpose of mating

There are multiple studies on this (see here for a surprisingly comprehensive review), and the results are concordant:

  • masculine men (as indicated by overall body muscularity, facial masculinity and body shape) are preferred by women at the time of peak fertility during their cycle, as well as by women looking for short-term flings, and women who perceive themselves as attractive

  • feminine men are preferred by women at the bottom of their fertility, women looking for long-term relationships, and women on hormonal birth control

This shouldn't be a surprise: at peak fertility, a woman will want to maximize her chances of passing on good Alpha genes to her children; when infertile, she can more safely invest her time in securing the long-term commitment of a reliable Beta. Self-perception as attractive means a woman can take greater risks in shooting for an Alpha instead of settling for a Beta.

Facial preference is multi-factor

We can rely on this extremely comprehensive review:

  • symmetry: facial symmetry is universally correlated with increased attractiveness

  • facial masculinity: traits like a large jaw and prominent brow (which are masculine secondary sexual characteristics in humans) are reliably found to be attractive

  • health and color: traits that indicate overall health (such as the absence of blemishes and a full color) are reliably found to be attractive

In short (and not surprisingly), indicators of good genetics, masculinity and health are universally preferred in faces, on top of and regardless of other preferences.


Conclusion

There are a number of physical traits that factor into women's preferences, which themselves vary with a woman's stage in the menstrual cycle.

Traits that generate sexual attraction are invariably related to masculinity and health: large jaw, prominent brow, total body muscularity, body shape.

Traits that generate "relationship attraction" are the opposite: gentler facial features, gynoid body shape.

A fundamental TRP teaching is Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks: women's dual mating strategy. Mountains of evidence point to what is a surprisingly common sense behavior once you let go of BP "women are wonderful" conditioning: select the mate with the best genetics for reproduction, if you can, and gain the companionship of a less-genetically-awesome but more reliable provider otherwise.

People here who are interested in generating sexual attraction ought to maximize their masculine traits. Do note that the converse is not true: people here looking for LTRs should not maximize their feminine traits, not unless they want to be in a sexless relationship. While a woman might prefer her main partner to be a pliable beta while she gets plowed by strange Alpha dick, your interests in an LTR (if you want one in the first place) is to have a balance of Alpha and Beta traits that keeps the relationship in the state you want it. Again, basic TRP concepts, but clearly there was a need for a refresher.


[–]throwaway757528 165 points166 points  (27 children)

Being tall and handsome is all that's got me by with women and it's been my own red Pill seeing just how many women will risk a secure relationship to fuck a good looking guy.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger 123 points124 points  (12 children)

"Secure relationships" are pretty easy to come by for most women. Average guys who would give anything for a chance at sex with a decent-looking girl and can't believe their luck when she's willing to be their girlfriend are a dime a dozen.

If average dude #1 dumps her because she fucked some hot guy at the bar, she'll be dating average dude #2 within a week. An industrious woman may have a dozen average dudes in her cell phone, all waiting in the wings.

So she's not giving up anything of value to fuck a good looking guy. She's essentially giving up a T-shirt, and can just put another one on when she gets home.

[–]Casanova-Quinn 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Spot on. Beta orbiters are a woman's "safety net". Ironically, the beta orbiters hoping for LTRs are making the whole situation worse for themselves. If women didn't have orbiters, they'd be less likely to branch swing or cheat in relationships for fear of ending up alone.

[–]omnicidial 12 points13 points  (9 children)

Explains the literally 100% of girls who try to fuck me always have a boyfriend or husband.

[–]UHM-7 11 points12 points  (8 children)

quit your bullshit you aint bad looking but you aint pulling left right and center

[–]R3v4mp3d 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Please refrain from doxxing. It's a form of disrespect towards your fellow TRPer (be he boasting or not :) ).

That aside, how do you filter out a boaster from the real deal (without visual evidence)? I struggle to see the crossing line between a legit story and someone that embelishes his tales.

Edit: grammar correction.

[–]omnicidial 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Can attempt all he wants he's still wrong.

[–]omnicidial 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Dude, in the 36 year old single mother crowd I'm relatively Fabio.

Helps I'm funny/ clever.

[–]omnicidial 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If you'd read my profile a little harder you'd have seen I host a weekly comedy show at a hotel. I also never said it was TONS of them, just every fucking time, they are. I think it's been the last 5 or 6 that were married or had boyfriends, if I try to remember exactly how many, all told me after that they had boyfriends or were like "lets go hang out and do something I don't want to fuck you" then talked me into doing shots till I was blacked out drunk and shit, basically date raped me.

Been having a real odd run of shit lately.

You'd be surprised how much the fact that I get up on stage and sing and tell jokes and do dumb shit all the time overcomes my looking like I look.

[–]Andgelyo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not a bad looking guy, but I can see how the older/married women would find the appeal, they're tired of the boring shit of their husbands

[–]Gr0o0vy 64 points65 points  (1 child)

Tingles™ violently take over any rational thought process (if there was any to begin with)

[–]bTHE66 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"If there was any to begin with" made my day!!

[–]CATBLOB points points [recovered]

This shit right here has been twisting me all up the last few months. I'm a dude from a very small town, one of those single street light towns you slow down from 70 to 35 to pass through on an interstate. I've gone from growing up with longer committed relations there to a much larger area with way more people. I've always been called cute, but after just picking up some weights, it's really messing with my morality to see how many women are literally physically throwing themselves on me, in front of their own boyfriends, WHO ARE MY GOD DAMN ROOM MATES OR BOSSES. I'm just now trying to come to terms that this is literally just what they want. All their words don't mean shit, that wedding ring doesn't mean shit to them, they just want my plate and don't care who sees. Going from a guy who got crushed and cheated on to a guy chicks expect to use to cheat on their guys, I just, wtf man...

[–]davielondon 20 points21 points  (0 children)

dude you're telling me... I've always been tall and good looking, and once I picked up some weights I noticed how desperate women were by nature. Its pathetic tbh - I'll see cute girls at the gym with their bf's and these girls stare me down like they're stalking prey. It's fucking bullshit and none of these women know what a commitment is. They just want some hot guy until he gets boring, then off to the next and the next. Just like fashion trends, make-up, hair styles and all other fem bullshit society has created for women. They will use until worn and then discard with the rest. Repeat process for everything in their life.

[–]Returnofthemack3 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I can't relate but I can definitely imagine how that would have an effect. A lot of people are seriously in denial about how much you can get away with/the lack of effort required if you're attractive. It's really night and day. To anyone reading this-if you're overweight, seriously try losing it and gaining some muscle, because that might be all you need depending on the individual

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (7 children)

You should be able to clean up on the dating apps if you haven't already.

[–]throwaway757528 24 points25 points  (6 children)

I'm in a ltr now. I didn't have a healthy relationship with women for most of my life. Having a beta personality and good looks growing up meant I got laid but walked all over by women. In my early and mid twenties I was quite bitter and span plates all of whom were shitty people and made me loose a lot faith in women.

I managed to get myself out of that hedonistic lifestyle and work on developing some real self respect and meeting better people.

Eventually I met the right woman. (who I'd known for a long time but always thought was way out of my league because she has a brain)

[–]Psychocist 6 points7 points  (3 children)

..so what do us average height, bald dudes do? Seems there is actually no point in giving a woman commitment because she's going to fuck you anyway.

[–]grewapair 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Ding ding. You FINALLY figured it out.

It's your job to be used. Period. Women are only interested in using men because there's always another one to be found.

And THEY finally figure out that all men can be used. She can use you for tingles or use you for $$, but she isn't going to provide you with much more than she has to. And that isn't much if you aren't super good looking because they know women aren't exactly standing in line for you.

[–]Psychocist 3 points4 points  (1 child)

And that isn't much if you aren't super good looking because they know women aren't exactly standing in line for you.

Thing is, if I'm hitting 35 with a great career, in shape, RP with a touch of beta, on a mission, always improving myself.. women will be standing in line. I can be balls deep within a few days of being on Tinder. The problem is the young crowd haven't learned chad isn't committing so I'll forever be relegated to chicks about to hit/after the wall.

Even then, I'd have to find someone not stupid enough to risk commitment for a quicky with chad or foolishly believe he wants her. Clowns, the lot of 'em. If I do find myself in a relationship again I'll very likely cheat all the way through it and then at least I'm already one-up when she does it to me.

[–]iamneptuno 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No one stands in line on Tinder unless you are exceptionally attractive.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's cool you got it out of your system. I feel like I knew the highest quality women earlier in my life, and I didn't know how to keep them in my life. So now here I am...

[–]Shadowduh 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Stop giving me feelings . Lol but yea they don't seem to give a fuck at all.

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points  (39 children)

anyone have a link to the social proof / dread study? they took a couple pics of a man, gave him a background bio and asked a bunch of women whether they'd sleep with him. then they asked another group about the same exact guy, same exact bio EXCEPT said he's married... the number of women who'd sleep with him skyrocketed to something like 70%.

looking for the link.

// not bashing OP's data, just that data on attraction is really good stuff.

[–]aanarchist 24 points25 points  (21 children)

pretty sure social proof and dead is basic psychology. dread works on both men and women, when they think they might lose something valuable they're going to focus their attention on it. social proof is practically intuitive, people like people that other people like.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (10 children)

Social proof is definitely more important for women than it is for men. Just see how many women are crazy about male celebrities, while that's not the case for men and female celebrities.

[–]aanarchist 11 points12 points  (5 children)

they're more predisposed to not making their own decisions, therefor are more predisposed to needing someone elses approval to like or dislike someone. they don't understand that that opens them up to letting other people make bad decisions for them, who are the same as them trying to do what everyone else is doing, it's the blind leading the blind. lotta men have that mentality too.

[–]2virusofthemind 7 points8 points  (4 children)

The data is sound around pre-selection but it's actually an outlier on the entire attraction frame that exists for different reasons than the others.

It's remit isn't...

they don't understand that that opens them up to letting other people make bad decisions for them.

It's they let other people make good decisions for them.

Back in the ancestral environment a man you didn't know had the potential to be a serious risk to your well being. A woman with the neural trait to find a man attractive that other women had already "pre-approved" as safe and of interest would be more likely to mate with him (and propagate the trait) down the gene line until it achieved fixation in the gene pool.

Back when I was a young lad a friend's dad told us that his wife in her teenage years had been to a couple of Beatles concerts in the 60's and was eye witness to girls being carried over the crowd on stretchers after passing out and literally squirting all over the place even when they were barely conscious.

The preselection from thousands of screaming women was literally so powerful it spiralled out of control and became a "super stimuli".

If anyone can work out a method for an individual to achieve "a sexual super stimuli" of the same level using game...

Feel free to pm me...

[–]aanarchist 1 point2 points  (2 children)

well you can see how well that worked out for them. you can probably get good preselection by hiring an escort to fawn over you in front of other women and build off of that.

[–]2virusofthemind 0 points1 point  (1 child)

well you can see how well that worked out for them. you can probably get good preselection by hiring an escort to fawn over you in front of other women and build off of that.

You probably could. If you can't afford it another method in a busy club is use a pivot to walk up to you and ask for a selfie with you. Other girls in the venue assume that you're someone famous that they don't recognise and take an immediate interest.

[–]aanarchist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that would work for like a one night stands but i can't see it working for a rotation of plates, unless they literally never ask anything about you.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn, a lot of those Beatle groupies were carried out with wet crotches.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Social proof and dread was exactly the strategies recommended by the Comsopolitan's in the company breakroom when I was younger.

Go out and let him see you having fun, flirt with is friends and make him jealous to get his attention

The redpill really prides itself on being a crowd sourced praxeology, but most of the advise is the intersection of laws of power, how to meet friends and influence people and advice from comso with the genders flipped.

[–]aanarchist 1 point2 points  (3 children)

they manipulate us, we manipulate them back and do it better because we're men. when men have a goal there's little that can stop them except for themselves.

[–]J-Mosc 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don't know, maybe when we really out our minds to it. But women are master manipulators from a lifetime of experience. This is their primary survival skill. They're pretty well polished at it. It's second naure.

[–]aanarchist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i don't think they're really masters at it so much as everyone around them looks the other way. like if you look at the choices women tend to make, you can't really call them masters let alone any degree of intelligence or consciousness. i'd say it's more that the pussy pass has been deeply ingrained into society for who knows how long, to the point where most red pill dudes still give women their pussy pass and still submit themselves to female preferences and to the female imperative.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most men aren't naturally Machiavellian enough to be better than women at manipulation. The best that most can do is be aware of and increase their value, and communicate and commit to the boundaries.

[–]1swaglordobama 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Being married/in a relationship/close female friends displays preselection, not social proof.

Preselection wins out over pretty much everything. Looks, game, money, power don't mean shit if you have preselection.

The why is simple. Most guys are socially retarded, and no amount of external supplication is going to make up for that. If other girls like you, it means you're not socially retarded, which means she can probably hang out with you without you making her uncomfortable.

Guys here act like you have to be hot fucking shit to get laid. You just need good logistics, social intelligence, and persistence.

Your appearance matters when girls are choosing you, not when you are choosing girls. Guess what, boys, alphas are selectors.

[–]aanarchist 4 points5 points  (1 child)

i'd say it's the other way around with most girls being socially retarded. dudes are pretty smart and they don't waste time mincing words. a world flooded with feminism and political correctness and man shaming isn't exactly a place where a man can be social. it's the dudes who can snake their way around this shit that thrive, and it's why narcissism and sociopathy are on the rise, they navigate through it best where as normal men are like wtf is this shit. logistics is something you should never need when getting a woman, it's just a testament to how sick the society is when attracting a woman has become some sort of clown act.

[–]1swaglordobama -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Logistics is everything, it always has been lol.

Most guys are socially retarded. Unless you put yourself in a situation where you can build social skills and intuition onba daily basis, you are going to be a socially awkward, uncalibrated guy.

It's not a clown act, it's being a fun, social guy guy who people want to be around.

I mean, you are the only constant in your life. You can choose to resist the world as it is and be butthurt, or you can adapt.

[–]iamneptuno 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why care about social proof or anything at all, then, if it's you who is choosing? Just "choose", and that's it.

[–]1swaglordobama 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Choosing frame is about abundance and options. If you don't have that, you are not in a position to choose.

Unless you can display preselection, you will have to show the girl that you aren't some weird guy.

Usually this is done through calibration and non verbal cues (body language, voice tone) after opening.

What preselection does is make the girl (and people in general) think, "look at this guy, guys and girls are competing for this attention, what does he got going on?"

Even having one girl with you when you enter a venue or open a set does wonders for you. Means you aren't some weird, creepy guy. That alone makes opening and merging sets much easier.

[–]Mudpielol 12 points13 points  (15 children)

buy a wedding ring and wear it? Could it be that simple :)).

[–]TRP Legal ExpertColdIceZero 38 points39 points  (4 children)

Long before TRP and when PUA was still in its infancy, I met a guy who had spent his entire career in sales. He gave me his insights on how sales is directly related to sexual attraction and how women love married men.

Moreover, he described the cultural importance of being married (or at least, being perceived as being married). He said that, even without directly discussing your marriage, people will perceive you as being more mature, more "grown up" if they believe you are married.

When I heard this advice, I was still delivering pizzas during my undergrad. I ran an experiment where I spent $6 on a sterling silver band from a shitty jewelry store and wore it during work. When I made pizza deliveries, I made sure to pull the pizzas out of the bag and hand the customer the boxes in such a way that my "wedding band" was in their field of view.

I kept records of my tips and saw a statistically significant increase in the number of high-dollar tips after I started wearing the ring. I surmised that if people assumed I was married, then I wasn't just some bum college kid who needed to set an alarm to make sure I was awake to make it to my 2pm classes; they must have thought I was a married man working hard to responsibly support a family.

The moral of the story is that there can sometimes be advantages for being perceived as being married.

[–]L3G10N9 1 point2 points  (3 children)

i'm actually going to try this

[–]TRP Legal ExpertColdIceZero 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Wearing a wedding band will give you opportunities to practice proper verbal judo. Obviously, if you're wearing a wedding ring when you're not married, you're actively projecting a falsehood, a lie. You're going to face some potentially difficult situations when people you meet for the first time start asking you questions about your relationship.

"So, you're married? How long have y'all been together?"

Now, you have two options in these situations: (1) fabricate a story about your "wife" and/or "family," or (2) deflect the questions and refocus the conversation back toward the person asking.

Which option you choose will depend on what kind of relationship you're looking to have with the person asking.

If you're looking to establish a longer term business relationship with the person asking the question about your "relationship," then you shouldn't lie. The problem with lying to someone you want to have an ongoing connection with is that it's often difficult to keep the lies straight over the long term, and it invites too many opportunities in the future for certain "facts" to be accidentally exposed as untruths. Plus, there's always inevitably the fucked up situation where the guy says, "Hey! We're having a get-together this weekend. You should totally bring your wife!"

In those situations, it'll be a good opportunity to practice deflection in a conversation and steer the focus back on asking the guy questions about him and his relationships. Deflection works by providing a vague and noncommittal answer to the question and immediately following it up with the same question back to the guy. Don't allow him an opportunity to ask you a follow up question. Then, after he answers your repeated question, you immediately follow up his response with another question tangentially related to his answer.

For deflection to work, the conversation isn't a goddamn ping pong game where you ask a question, then he asks a question, then you ask a question. No, for deflection to work, he asks a question, you dodge the question by responding vaguely, then you become a TMZ version of Barbara Walters and interview the guy. You lead the conversation. Then, after you ask a handful of questions, you break away from the conversation and open a new set; therefore avoiding lying about being in a relationship while simultaneously reinforcing your connection by demonstrating interest in the other person's personal life. People love to talk about themselves. Get them to talk about themselves, pretend to be interested, and they'll look forward to speaking to you again.

But, if you don't give a fuck about knowing this person at any point in the future, then feel free to lie your balls off. Hell, the only reason I passed my Matrices, Vectors, & Linear Algebra course was because of my wedding ring. I was bombing the class like crazy, and of course I never fucking showed up for the lectures. There were three exams in the course; and I received a 42% on the first exam and a 27% on the second exam. I was fucked.

So I went to the professor and asked him if there was any way I could pass this course. He said that I dug this grave by never showing up to lectures. In a flash of insight, I started fidgeting with my wedding ring and told him about how hard things have been this semester because I've been going through a divorce and it's hard with the kids and I've been trying to keep up my hours at work, etc, etc.

The professor told me that the final would be comprehensive and that whatever grade I got on the final, that would be my grade for the semester. I studied the fuck out of that course and received a C on the final and thus passed the class.

So the moral of the story is that a wedding ring can provide certain advantages in certain situations, but you must discern when to blatantly lie about your "marriage" and when to deflect those questions. And of course, there is the third option, which is to be completely open about wearing a wedding ring purely for the purpose of socially engineering an advantage with people; but that honesty typically only works to reinforce your friendships with sociopaths. So if someone finds it hilariously genius that you're wearing a wedding ring for that purpose, that person is likely on the Antisocial Personality Disorder spectrum.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (5 children)

i know a guy who would go to bars and when he approaches the hottest woman at the bar, would put his fist up under his face doing the thinker, clearly showing the ring on his finger. i was in my bluepill days and thought this would never work... until he did it to girls right in front of me on multiple occasions.

m night shamalamadingdong twist: he actually was married.

[–]Svi_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Look up the thinkers position now

[–]SaggyT -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hahaha nice shyamalan reference

[–]Mudpielol -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Live and learn. Could be fun to try.

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic 4 points5 points  (2 children)

It worked for George Constanza!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Also... "Hi, My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents."

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My favorite episode. So many RP truths!

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Herm. Maybe I need to find that circle of lies and put it on again.

I can't actually think of a time where wearing it caused me any difficulties landing fish.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

[–]Terribledragon4Hire 31 points32 points  (1 child)

Guys can do things to improve their facial appearance.

Grooming: be well trimmed up always. This includes eyebrows, nose hair, and scalp.

Be lean: BF % shows up in the face as well. Your jaw line is more prominent at 8%bodyfat than at 25%.

Brush your God damn teeth. Have pearly whites. If you are all snaggle tooth, get that shit fixed

Get glasses that look good or contacts. The eighties IT department goggles don't cut it

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 34 points35 points  (37 children)

How dare you taking away those lazy fuckers precious strawmen?

If you are ugly, short or Indian, you should absolutely focus on those things and not bother even starting to improve yourself. After all you tried nofap for to weeks and it didn't give you magical powers to slay pussy.

Best would be to consider yourself to be part of the MGTOW and just slay orcs in your mother's basement 18/7 whole washing down that family size pack of cheetos with a gallon of mountain dew.

[–]Acquin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

bro nobody grinds orcs anymore on world of warcraft cmon I grind on cats :')

[–]bharatnam2 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Indian

there is a world outside of your shitty asktrp sub, don't associate indian as being low SMV because some decided to whine, I doubt you get out much

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 2 points3 points  (4 children)

You realize that you are whining in this very moment, do you?

[–]Trooper_1868 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Actually it is pretty racist mate, there are those on TRP who are indian who fucking hate it when a bunch of morons saying they are indians complain about stupid shit like I CANT GET HOT BLONDE WOMEN, NO ONE WILL EVER LOVE ME, ETC. Source:

I'm an indian, I follow as much as i can, I like your posts you say some good shit, and this place has changed my life for the better. Im not sure if anyone taught you this, but going after a particular race, screams either inferiority or superiority complex. And if you are TRP endorsed, you should not be having a complex at all.

You have betas who are white, black, south american, european, asian etc and we have 1.2 billion of us but the ratio of AF/BB is still approximately the same.

TLDR: Don't throw our entire race under the bus.

[–]bharatnam2 1 point2 points  (2 children)

no, but I do realize that you're a filthy nazi who has no success with women and have zero business giving advice on here

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 1 point2 points  (1 child)

a filthy nazi

Who's the one shitting in the streets here?

[–]bharatnam2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The refugees your guilt tripped government let in, can't blame em though, German toilets don't flush properly.

[–]Need2LickMuff 2 points3 points  (0 children)

JSYK the OP of that thread specifically said to keep lifting and to keep improving your life, just that face matters more than body.

Not defending the OP of that thread entirely, but he never suggested to give up on life if you aren't male model tier facially. A little bit redundant of a thread, for sure, but.

[–]anabolic92 3 points4 points  (28 children)

You shouldn't be sarcastic about situation at all.

There are some physical features that will make you instantly a not attractive men to most of the women.

While regarding of how you are physically self improvement is always the path to go, men who fall into that category usually get frustrated by the lack( or completely in existence) of sexual progress thos efforts where expected to produce.

I'm a 20s young bald men, I have shit going on my life (studying and working), hit the gym, shave ed and all of the things that you could say to the typical bald men, and I can't blame women to not like me.

To be bald is to be dead in the SMP, don't try and compare any famous athlete or actor.

You can't expect a men to go against his instincts to fuck almost anything that moves, but that Sexual revolution and the ways today woman get their ego gets inflated has change sexual interactions so much, making some men who can be 'classified' under some physical features to be indictable by women.

The lack of intimacy with the opposite sex and feeling worth something to the opposite sex during extended periods of time will lead nowhere but a very darle place regarding a men's mental health.

[–]somebullshitrp 5 points6 points  (2 children)

As a bald man who slays the snizz, I must disagree with you vehemently.

[–]grewapair 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Geez, this "one size fits all" advice is so terrible. You probably have a face that works well if you're bald. Not everyone does.

So, for some guys, baldness is no disadvantage, and maybe even an advantage. But that's not going to be true for everyone.

[–]somebullshitrp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I do have a massive beard, and I'm in great shape, so....

[–]Judirek points points [recovered]

I thought hair transplants and hair growers are a thing now, is it still expensive? I remember this person who got a transplant (he was balding) and his hair grew.

[–]anabolic92 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hard to maintain and hair might end up falling anyways, leaving a scar in the back of your head.

There is no effective cure for balding yet, otherwise trust me, you'd see 0 bald people over the age of 40 on this world

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Yep. Your life is over. Literally no bald guy ever got intimacy, because they were bold. Better luck next time. :(

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I know plenty of bald guys who're slaying pussies like it's their job.

[–]L3G10N9 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same, many women like bald guys

[–]anabolic92 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Not saying my life is over but as the other guy who replied, being deprived of intimacy, and the things I mentioned will end up fucking you up mentally if they are persistent during a lot of time.

Regarding the being 'bold', I don't know if you miss typed bald or you really want to play the 'be bold not bald', 'just own it', 'be confident' because that kind of shit doesn't work in real life.

Regardless, if you knew the struggle of the situation I first mentioned being sarcastic would be the last thing you want to be.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Typo and too lazy to fix on mobile.compact site.

I was on the verge of killing myself because I was so depressed and alone five years ago.

Being bald is a laughable reason to feel like that. Go seek help of a psychologist if you cannot get over it on your own.

[–]anabolic92 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Its not directly being bald what makes people depressed, its what carries.

Pretty much same can happen with indians.

If you want to compare it with women you could imagine fatties, only difference is that they are just fat because being fucking lazy, something they cant change.

I know what wanting to kill yourself means, and I'm glad that it is a part of your past now, but if the root of the problems are unchangeable going to a psychologist doesnt help.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nope. It's all just in your head. Not on your head. Sorry for the pun.

[–]iamneptuno 0 points1 point  (1 child)

We already had this conversation I believe, but once again -- you are wasting your time.

They can't comprehend that the world is not fair, and some of us are just fucked.

Make money and become an alpha bucks. Sometimes it's even more convenient than being a natural, genetic alpha.

[–]anabolic92 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually he is right in some points, I don't ever get rejected because I don't ever approach.

But then again this is because of how women interact with me when in wearing a cap or not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

The lack of intimacy with the opposite sex and feeling worth something to the opposite sex during extended periods of time will lead nowhere but a very darle place regarding a men's mental health.

I agree. This winter I felt like shit, when there was shitty weather for weeks, freezing temperatures, failed an important test and got nothing but ghosts and flakes (I don't approach groups anymore so there are no more rejections). At one point I said "fuck this shit" as I had no more motivation to do anything as everything I did just didn't result in anything. They can say women shouldn't be your main focus as much as they want, but when girls keep ghosting and flaking it's impossible not to think about it.

[–]anabolic92 1 point2 points  (2 children)

You said his winter, imagine 20+ years of your life like this, the effect it could have on one's self-worth, self-esteem and mental health overall. The incapacity to connect with some one, feel desired or worth, seeing almost everyone enjoying their youth and life.

This is where me and some other men are because something that is completely out of our hands, in my case balding.

[–]BarracudaRP 0 points1 point  (1 child)

No one else is saying it, so here: anabolic92 you are completely missing the point.

You say in another comment that you are 'as Chad as possible'. That's funny. I've never seen Chad Thundercock whine about his bald feelz, then adamantly defend his right to keep feeling like a piece of shit.

Spoiler alert: You're not being turned down by women because you're bald. (Wait, are you even getting far enough to be rejected?) Your abysmal self esteem is THE thing holding you back. You are a textbook example of victim mentality, nothing is your fault, women are evil. You don't even have a woman in your life, but are still so deeply inside of the female frame, I bet you're wearing lacy panties.

Good news: RP is a program that specifically addresses how to build yourself up, repair your self worth and become the man that women want to sleep with. When you're ready to stop complaining and start acting, there is an enormous resource here for you.

TL; DR - Lift and read the sidebar, balding is not the problem. *edit: formatting

[–]anabolic92 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are right, but I've never blamed women, I actually stated that desire cannot be negotiated, not her fault.

Already read the rational male, starting no more mr nice guy and I've lifted for a while https://anonimage.net/view/WROHBM02V6 .

The difference of how simply women look at me when wearing a cap or not is mind blowing.

I feel that most of trp principles don't apply to me, but you are right in 99% of what you said, I can't deny it other that balding is not the problem and I blame women.

[–]Psychocist 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Is it really that bad? I'm going bald and had to shave my head.. actually increased my matches on Tinder and I've still got a sex life (with attractive women). Might just be your age group. Young chicks are mostly on the look out for chad. Either be chad or be ignored.

[–]anabolic92 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Yeah is it that bad.

Then what you are telling me that while women are most sexually active and also attractive I am being ignored becacuse the lack of hair on my head, something I haven't chosen or can fight against.

I'm the most chadish a bald men can be, trust me and still it comes back to the point that nothing can make up for balding.

But as mentioned first, attraction can not be negotiated, being bald means no attraction/intimacy/etc, and to a young men trust me, that is a harder pill to swallow than the red one.

[–]Psychocist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think it is that bad.

Do a search on these forums, check the comments on the 10+ threads about being bald. Trust me, being bald, though IS a disadvantage, is NOT the end of your sex life.

You don't need to attract every woman on the planet to live in abundance of attractive pussy so just chill the fuck out and go find another excuse for why you're not successful with women.

[–]J-Mosc 2 points3 points  (4 children)

No it's really not. Maybe because you're in your 20s it's worse, but when you're in your 30s and it's more expected it becomes more acceptable and some women love bald men. But you need to be muscular too.

[–]anabolic92 0 points1 point  (3 children)

At their 30s? When women's sexual peak is going downhill and they are looking more for a provider and my SMV regarding wealth and job opportunities is going up? No thanks.

Also being muscular at 30 is hard, testosterone natural levels start going down. I'm muscular already ATM and makes no difference.

[–]J-Mosc 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Brother, I'm 40, muscular, work out every day, and I still get girls in their 20's thinking I'm ten years younger than I am. If your test levels go down, just add more test. Being my age girls don't usually care that I'm bald is what I'm saying, so it will get better for you. Trust me, I've been there.

[–]anabolic92 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks for your post.

I'm already on synthetic testosterone, I'm bald and I don't mind the long term sides as I don't want to live long anyways.

The problem is how long to wait? I put so much effort following a diet, going to the gym taking care of myself.

Then I guess I still have 15+ years of feeling like a shit

[–]J-Mosc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All I'm saying is keep putting that gym time in now and when you hit your 30s you'll be having a lot of fun. And it only gets better as you approach 40. If you're depressed that girls aren't into you in your 20s then focus on yourself for now, focus in everything else you want in life. I know it's easier said than done but one day you'll look back and say the time flew by.

[–]Omnibrad 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Still, neither one of these "physical attraction" posts mentions posture. You can see improvements from months at the gym, but you can see improvements from posture immediately.

[–]cellphon 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Improvement in the gym results in a better posture most of the times. That is if you do big boy movements instead being a cardio bunny and machines.

[–]Koryphae_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

True, but you have to consciously work on posture as well.

[–]Rustynuts83 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Everyone is talking about the sexual strategies of women and that ideally they want alpha bucks, what is not being addressed is women's nature to betafy a man once she's in a relationship with him, especially the most beautiful women. That is what ensures their mating strategy will always be pluralistic and contradictory.

Even if you're the whole package, the 'ideal man', you can never allow yourself to fall in love with a woman as you would like to, as your heart inclines you too, lest you frame slips or you're just a victim of bad luck (an accident for example) and they change their mental image of you to 'less than a real man'. And even though she may be in the beta bucks mindset, if she still has any SMV, she won't stay with a guy she views as beta for long. Won't stay loyal to him anyway.

[–]landon042 10 points11 points  (4 children)

We NEED This to be at the top of trp page

it shows half of what this shit's about and seeing ugly pictures like that everyday should make it sink in that girls are actually -2 or more smv points in reality

[–]Rooibosisboss 14 points15 points  (1 child)

she doesn't look so great after, but maybe that's just me.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

she went from a 4 to a six. The math checks out

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I recently saw one Instagram celebrity in a park without makeup, and damn, she's like entirely different person.

[–]MaxwellGaine 10 points11 points  (10 children)

As a proud owner of a largish (but trimmed) beard, how does that play into all of this? More alpha or beta to women?

Seems more alpha (leonidas) but then again there's plenty of weird chumps with beards (zach galifanakis)

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Masculine, but it's not nearly as well-researched as the others, I suspect because it's harder to recruit or create male face models with real beards.

[–]RedPillFusion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Russian accents notwithstanding.

[–]GoRedBad points points [recovered]

Makes a chin look bigger, even when it's just a couple of days stubble, therefore more masculine. Plus the fact that there's hair on your face means you are undoubtedly a man. Can't hurt!

[–]MaxwellGaine -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Could hurt if they're on birth control and looking for something less intimidating.

[–]GoRedBad points points [recovered]

If you're trying to game a specific woman rather than improving in general to cast a wide net, you already lost.

[–]MaxwellGaine 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Absolutely.

But let's make up some statistics - let's say 100% of options you'd want to purse are on birth control (because you don't want kids), and 75% of woman dislike beards, that's making your net damn small.

In the end I'd say fuck it all, the beard is for me, but maybe not if that disqualifies 95% of women.

[–]Malestrom45 0 points1 point  (0 children)

why not wear a condom instead of trusting some female

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a study kicking around that rated heavy stubble as the most attractive. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jeb.12958/abstract

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a proud owner of a largish (but trimmed) beard, how does that play into all of this?

Umm, you tell us. How do you do with women? Do they ever compliment your beard specifically? Stroke it? Rub their beaver on it?

[–]Frenchy100 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am glad that post was taken down. What worries me is how it made it to the top of our community by feeding on members ' insecurities. The guys in the pictures were either 10s because of looks, frame and status, or they were 2-3s, definitely not your average guy.

[–]BargainBinBoyfriend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ultimately moot because we all should be working to maximize both qualities to the extent possible.

[–]prodigy2throw 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is why the more polarizing you look the more women you get. It's not that all women like you suddenly. It's just the ones that like you REALLY like you and make it known.

[–]Scandinavianredpill 14 points15 points  (24 children)

Women want to both fuck me and date me. Does that mean I am alpha and beta?.. so if a guy is intelligent and nice, got high testosterone and high convictions, but he also happens to care for his offspring, would he be beta?.. Is Brad Pitt beta?. I guess Ghengis Kahn is beta too, he took a son under his wing that wasn't his.. I think there is some truth to alpha fucks / beta bux, but that's mostly because very few guys got the qualities of a provider, the consistency and also the alpha traits. Alpha fucks / beta bux is a coping strategy for women in a world where most high test. men don't want to bond (because test / oxytocin are reversely correlated), there are still high testosterone males that wan't a family.

[–]G_Petronius points points [recovered]

Does that mean I am alpha and beta?

It means that people incorrectly think and talk about "being" alpha and beta, when it's more like alpha traits and beta traits, both of which have their uses depending on your goals. You're not going to sustain an LTR while going 100% alpha, for example.

so if a guy is intelligent and nice, got high testosterone and high convictions, but he also happens to care for his offspring, would he be beta?

A god among men tbh.

[–]TangoZulu 1 point2 points  (3 children)

This is true, no one is 100% alpha or beta. But I do think that the AF/BB model has become so universally accepted here that many people tend to think of it as women's primary mating objective, which it is not.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

AF/BB is a strategy which, in our feminine-primary society, translates into a widespread reality. Ideally, a woman would want an Alpha Bucks: a masculine, dominant male that is also capable of and willing to provide for her; which is why this fantasy sells to the tune of billions i.e. 50 Shades. Failing to actually find Alpha Bucks, AF/BB is the next best alternative: find a Beta for security and resources, and fuck alphas on the side for the pussy tingles (and, subconsciously, for the good genetics).

[–]TangoZulu 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Absolutely agree. It can also be a side effect of hypergamy, in which she is attempting to branch swing from the BB to the AF, provided she can get him to commit. My point is only that it often seems that people here tend to think that women set out to find the AF/BB, where in actuality it's either a fallback or transitionary strategy for them.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My point is only that it often seems that people here tend to think that women set out to find the AF/BB

I got that, I was explaining why people think like that. In our society, that strategy is incentivized and condoned, hence it becomes a pervasive reality that people easily confuse with what women ideally want.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet 13 points14 points  (0 children)

"Alpha" and "beta" are types of behaviour, not states of being.

Learn how to use both to your advantage.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (12 children)

if a guy is intelligent and nice, got high testosterone and high convictions, but he also happens to care for his offspring, would he be beta?

Those men are also known as Alpha Bucks, every woman's dream. Donald Trump is a good example. Unfortunately for women, they're almost all already taken. Alpha Bucks is an equivalent of 18 year old virgin girl who never even had a boyfriend or kissed anyone, knows how to cook and clean, wants to get married, gives pussy on demand to her husband and has as many kids as he wants.

[–]Scandinavianredpill 14 points15 points  (6 children)

Exactly and that's a good point. Guys in here are often afraid of going into a relationship for the reason that they don't want to be the "beta bucks" and I think that's misplaced. If you got abundance, you are not gonna get emotionally fucked by a woman and you are a natural leader of the relationship.. then why not have your fun? If shit goes sour you are the kind of man that can replace her and because you are red pill you never allow her to have any legal power over you.

I think sometimes you need to accept that there are tendencies (such as beta bux / alpha fux), but reality is that there are many shades.

Just never let yourself go in a relationship, keep on lifting - keep on improving for your own benefit and be the man you want to be. Issues arrive when you let yourself go just because you got some meat.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Doesn't matter. You get sick, or you break some limb, and she's immediately off looking for another guy. You showed weakness and that's unattractive for her. That's why cohabitation destroys attraction. She's attracted to her mental image of you, and that image disappears if she gets to know you better.

[–]STRANGLED_HOOKER points points [recovered]

Jesus christ no.

Maybe for a cold hearted bitch but for most women if you are high test, intelligient, good looking and also care for her she will NEVER risk that. Stay alpha throughout cohabitation even when sick and she'll have compassio.

Even the odd time where you're out of commision/sick (dont be a bitch about it) she might not be as SEXUALLY attracted to you but she'll still suck your dick and once your better everything will be back to normal.

Women arent dumb, if you tick every fucking box and rarely lapse then you will never get dumped because half the male population right now is full of fat lazy dumbasses and women know this.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Stay alpha throughout cohabitation even when sick and she'll have compassio.

Only if they see an out. You better either be mostly recovering or be heading to death. Women will unhitch from a (non-) dead end.

[–]STRANGLED_HOOKER points points [recovered]

Okay? What are the chances you're gonna be cancer ridden? You must be either ugly as fuck (both looks and personality) or just picking retarded ass women

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Uh, did I miss the joint getting passed around? What the hell are you talking about?

What are the chances you're gonna be cancer ridden?

I think the lifetime chance is something like 30% for those that don't die from accidents, but don't quote me on that? What does that have to do with anything?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Trump does have certain alpha qualities but they are mainly due to his thermonuclear level narcissism.

He is not nice, and has no convictions at all besides self-aggrandisement and narcisstic supply. Common qualities in a successful politician however he takes it to the next level.

That’s why, despite being a billionaire, he married an eastern European woman; because everybody knows they will put up with anything for a high status male (i.e. they are gold digging whores).

[–]PavleKreator 0 points1 point  (1 child)

All good, except Slovenia is in central Europe, and Melania was rich when she met Donald.

[–]Landry86 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hopefully the girls who aren't quality enough to pull off an alpha buck don't deserve them anyway

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trumps a little too Alpha for a woman to be totally happy. He was married and grabbing pussy, plus he attributes one of his divorces with to working to hard, one to infidelity. The women are really just a status symbol to him

[–]Five_Decades 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I read a scientific study that the dual AF/BB strategy is more for low or medium smv women. High quality women want a man who embodied the best of both AF and BB in one man. Low or medium quality women can't attract and keep a man who has the best of both AF and BB so they look to different men to fulfill each.

[–]enigmatic_ammonite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is the definition of quality in this context?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Replace the term "Alpha" with ideal man and you'll get your answer. I hate the term Alpha and beta because it sounds so highschoolish. An ideal man tries to bring what he thinks is best out of himself and out of everyone else so of course he would love and help his child grow to become the best person they can be because he expects that from everyone. Your goal is to become a beacon of what people want to be and women fucking love that shit. That’s the type of shit that gives them feels. Self realization for himself and helping others do the same is what he enjoys.

A “beta” tries to be the person everyone wants him to be or doesn’t try to be anything. Women want to sucker this guy into being their LTR because he’s easy to lead and control because he doesn’t know who he is or who he wants to be, he just wants to be what people need him for. Doing what he's told and being given direction by others is what he enjoys.

[–]grewapair -1 points0 points  (1 child)

It means you're handsome, and easy to push around.

[–]Scandinavianredpill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it means I want kids. I cannot get kids alone.

[–]TrannyPornO 3 points4 points  (19 children)

Wrong. That finding failed to replicate - six times.

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/11/136549

(2017) Jones et al. fail to replicate the results of Pappas (2010) and Whiteman (2014), but they still confirm that "women generally preferred masculinized over feminized versions of men's faces, particularly when assessing men's attractiveness for short-term, rather than long-term, relationships."

This effect, however, may not be due to ovulation, and more due to simply being women. Women who have higher oestrogen in general liked masculine faces more, but ovulation and 'the pill' did not increase this, substantially.

[–]G_Petronius points points [recovered]

Wrong. That finding failed to replicate - six times.

That's not how science works (one failed replication study doesn't invalidate a finding), and what you cited contains one replication study, not six.

[–]TrannyPornO 1 point2 points  (17 children)

Of course I didn't link to more than one study. That's clear.

Menstruation, however, doesn't lead to women liking more masculine men, for an obvious reason: it's confounded by hormonal predisposition. More feminine women of course like more masculine men, but fluctuations don't turn women rabid for musclemen and if you'll read, that effect was for short-term relationships anyway.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (16 children)

If you'll read, that's exactly what I wrote.

Post the other replication studies.

[–]TrannyPornO 4 points5 points  (15 children)

Post the other replication studies.

Here's a meta-analysis of 58, showing the effect is a statistical artefact and it failed to replicate at least 59 times.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (13 children)

That's not a replication study and it does not imply that 59 replication studies failed. What it shows is that under their own statistical re-modeling of previous results the effect becomes insignificant, which in itself isn't saying much at all.

You have enough sophistication to find studies supporting your theory and to cleverly misrepresent them into being more significant than they are, which means you're not being honestly mistaken but deliberately deceitful. Stop wasting my time and that of readers.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

which in itself isn't saying much at all.

No, what it says is how easy it is to get funding to play with other people's actual work.

[–]TrannyPornO 2 points3 points  (11 children)

That's not a replication study

It's a meta-analysis of 58 studies of the finding that menstruation changes female mate preference to favour men of high genetic worth (high testosterone, masculinity, symmetry, dominance, &c.).

it does not imply that 59 replication studies failed.

So, the 58 studies failed to find the effect. What do you call this but failed replication?

What it shows is that under their own statistical re-modeling of previous results the effect becomes insignificant, which in itself isn't saying much at all.

Indeed! When taken more carefully, this effect doesn't exist and is the result of a misconception of data, like when people lie and say that poverty causes crime, for instance.

cleverly misrepresent them

Would you like to point to where they're misrepresented? To say that 58 (in the meta-analysis) and 1 (posted above) for a total of 59, failed to support the result, i.e., failed to replicate it, is not to say anything incorrect.

Stop wasting my time and that of readers.

You're wasting your time trying to dismiss 59 failures as somehow not evidence. Trying to say they're not failures due to differences in statistical interpretation is incredibly dishonest -- point to the error, if you would.

Here is the Wood et al. (2014) PDF.

Here is Wood & Carden's 2014 article wherein they show that studies showing a purported menstrual effect don't measure cycle accurate, broadly define the cycle period, fail to control for premorbid hormonal levels &c. &c. &c.

Here is the Gildersleeve, Haselton & Fales (2014) article where their lies are pretty readily visible.

Here's the Gangestad & Thornhill (1998) finding that ovulating women don't want more symmetrical men, but women who are likely to conceive and are ovulating (a very important difference) do.

Here's Gildersleeve et al.'s 2013 article which VERY broadly defines menstruation and ovulation to show a MEAGRE effect.

And, finally, here's Ferguson's comments on this whole issue -- "it will be a good theater.".

I do not see where this is supported when accurate measurements are taken into effect. Meta-analyses which used precise criteria failed to replicate or (in other words), failed to showcase the effect.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (10 children)

So, the 58 studies failed to find the effect.

Wrong.

Indeed! When taken more carefully

No, when taken differently. Whether that's more careful or not is another matter entirely.

[–]TrannyPornO 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Wrong.

OK, so they did find the effect, but Wood et al. lied? Could you show that? If you need, I can give you the supplementary data.

No, when taken differently. Whether that's more careful or not is another matter entirely.

When taken as behaviour-estimated menstruation, or, not controlled for pre-ovulation hormonal levels, sure. It's not really another matter, it's the whole of the matter we're discussing. It's fairly easy to see that if you fail to control for pre-ovulation hormones, you're just measuring differences in groups of women, not in women as a whole during a specific period (ha) of their menstrual cycle.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

You posted a meta-study that did their own statistical modelling on previous ones and found no significant effect. That is neither a failure to replicate (it was not a replication study), much less 58 failures to replicate. Presenting an alternate model for a past study does not automatically mean your new model is correct; repeating it ad nauseam won't change this reality.

edit: are you fucking kidding me? you yourself posted commentary as to why meta-analysis is not automatically correct. From your last link:

In their meta-analysis Wood, Kressel, Joshi, and Louie (2014) argue little evidence supports shifts in mating preferences across the menstrual cycle. They imply this may represent a critical weakness of evolutionary psychology theories of mating preferences more generally. This report represents a fairly common use of meta-analysis: to assemble data to support or reject a particular proposition over which there is debate. Yet, rarely do meta-analyses succeed at resolving ideological debates. Multiple decision points related to the selection, coding, effect size extraction, and interpretation of studies leaves considerable room for meta-analytic authors to interject their own beliefs. Meta-analyses are typically hailed by those who agreed a priori with their conclusion, and rejected as fatally flawed by those in disagreement. As such, meta-analyses have failed in replacing narrative reviews as more objective.

I took a chance on what you posted, literally the first link I opened shoots down your cocksure assertions that this meta-analysis ends the debate. You shouldn't have needed me to tell you the same thing because your own link, which you should have read, told you as much. So, again: stop wasting my time and that of readers.

edit2: and it even explicitly explains, with an example, why you can't use meta-analysis to dismiss contrary independent replication out of hand. Fucking incredible. Everything I've wasted time telling you is contained in your own god-damn link.

[–]Koryphae_ -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Do either of you guys actually read the whole paper or just skim through the abstract? I would like to know the result of this debate but I do not want to delve into all of these papers.

[–]TrannyPornO 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I read all of the papers that I linked, both for and against on this topic. The papers against are far stronger.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

meta-analysis. Fucking hell, when did messing with Excel become science?

[–]Hjalmbere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What the article OP refers to really says is that fame and professional photos top bad selfies taken by jacked guys. No one should be surprised.

[–]iamneptuno 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While trying to argue with that post, you said almost exactly the same thing -- physical attraction is about the face.

The only difference is that he concentrated on forward growth, while you were more about the jaw. Both are important for the facial attractiveness.

[–]swordshab 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What's prominent brow look like

[–]lotsum20 2 points3 points  (1 child)

We all start as Alphas (to get the girl) and end up as Betas :D

[–]frozia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dude that's so fucking true hahaha

[–]Brewjo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But what about penis size? /s

On nofap/pornfree type subs that's the standout concern beyond status/looks/wealth/social skills... :P

[–]tolerantman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women will fuck anything as long as they can get money and fame from it.

[–]BargainBinBoyfriend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am going to be a human guinea pig for this debate -- I'm a 3.5 of 10 facially who has just started losing weight and lifting for the first time. I will be cut. So we will see...

[–]rayray2kbdp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you guys feel about the likelihood that Red Pill truths line up with black men having sexual advantages?

[–]smilingbanana points points [recovered]

I am pretty blessed with looks. Cute face, prominent brows, strong jawline, deep blue eyes, nice facial hair, and at 29 hair is better then ever.

I guess because of naturally high testosterone I am pretty jacked and muscular without any kind of training. And I am blessed by naturally huge hands and shoulders and trap. However I lift on top of it.

I have that caveman look body but pretty face. Chicks dig it. Ammount of times I have gotten laid 5 minutes after meeting a chick can not be achieved by any game whatsoever. It is possible just if you awake truly primal lust in her. I think hairy body plays a role. I know chicks say they dig shaved body but trust me I know that look when she sees my hairy shoulders coming at her. They love it.

Why am I bragging? You have to understand guys..women are about waking primal lust in her. Horniness caused from that will surpass her horniness achieved by game or status.

Too bad I am not taller, but on the other hand then my hands and shoulders wouldn't look so impressive.

[–]iamneptuno 0 points1 point  (2 children)

But how about all those videos where rsd Tyler or whatever "games" all those models paid to pretend to be "gamed"?

[–]smilingbanana points points [recovered]

I don't know about those videos. I am not interested in pick up community at all. Not after I have met one pick up artist in Europe..I think Julian was the name. They are nothing but salesman and buyers and truly lost guys radiating autism and desperation. Instead of offerring these guys real help like therapist or good psychology books so they can get rid of pathological self they usually create and start being themselves, what they are; pick up artists are actually fueling their ego even worse, help them create false identity and reality. It's a sad picture

[–]iamneptuno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was sarcastic.

PUA is a bullshit selling industry, yes.

Game is basically not being autistic, so you don't turn off females that are already attracted to you.

[–]6foot4whitemale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fastest I've ever gotten laid was 10 minutes (complete luck) got locked out of my room in college after a frat party and literally asked a girl if i could sleep on her couch, said yes, went to bathroom to pee before I went to bed open door and shes standing there naked saying to come sleep in her bed.. was like a fucking dream lol

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Good post. You've been putting out quality content lately man, keep it up.