431
432

Red Pill TheoryHow To (Actually) Be A Better Conversationalist – Tips For Men (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by majorbollocks

We have all been lied to. All of us. But if you came here from TRP, that’s not exactly news, now, is it?

But I’m not talking about sex only. I’m talking about how deep the lies actually go. We’ve been lied to also in terms of how to communicate – specifically as a man.

HOW DO YOU USUALLY START YOUR CONVERSATIONS?

That’s kind of a trick question. For most men in this BP day and age, most of us don’t really want to. We’re fed all kinds of bullshit on how communication is key, and that networking is important etc etc.

Let’s cut to the chase and let me tell you something I’ve discovered about myself and most other men:

As men, we need to have a clear objective before we decide to do something.

The usual scenario for most men is this:

Dude and his GF are talking. GF says so and so are having a party. Dude says yeah whatever. GF says they should go. Dude says “I don’t know anyone there.” GF says let’s just go. It’ll be fun. Just loosen up you’ll find something to talk about.

This is VERY damaging to the male because of a few important things:

Producing random conversations that lead nowhere for no apparent purpose is what WOMEN do.

And most BP men are pressured into these situations and of course they’ll make a fool out of themselves and they’ll incorrectly conclude that they just aren’t “good communicators” or they have “social anxiety”.

A man can do just about anything he set his mind to, including being a social butterfly, but on the condition that there’s a clear objective to shoot for that benefits him in some way.

This bears repeating. If there is no clear objective that benefits a man directly, he will find it very difficult to engage and apply himself to the task. This is true for conversations, socialising, networking, etc etc.

Women do not need this prerequisite. They can yap on and on about nothing in particular to nobody in particular or worse gossip about other people just so that they can have something to yap about.

They will pressure their males to engage in this worthless activity and if he caves, hello BP Beta Simp.

TWO MOST COMMON MALE ARCHETYPES FOR SOCIALISING

There are basically two types of male:

The Lone Wolf: If you’re a lone wolf, you really don’t need that much human companionship. Talking to other people are a chore, no matter how hard you try, and no matter how much time you put into it.

It just never gets easier. However, a Lone Wolf isn’t necessarily awkward or socially retarded. They just love their own company so much more.

The Lone Wolf is usually well-equipped to succeed on his own without much help from others. They might form a few long term alliances, usually with other lone wolves, and never have to make more friends than that to get everything they need in life.

If you’re a Lone Wolf, you may just want to skip this whole article altogether. You’re probably better off putting your time and talents into careers that are friendly to Lone Wolves such as affiliate marketing.

The Pack Hunter:

This is where most males are. Pack hunters forge alliances to reach a common objective or goal. The alliances may be short term or long term, but there is always a clear objective at the end that benefits the whole pack.

Pack hunting used to be the norm for our ancestors. To see how this works in the modern day male, one needs to look no further than the sarging culture where groups of men band together to get women to have sex with.

There are also the forums where men get together to discuss strategies on how to lift, how to make money, etc. Notice that in these sarge groups where the objectives are crystal clear, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who’s anxious and not sure what to say.

Well among the men at least. Then they start approaching and the BP habits start to surface.

SO WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS?

Conversational skills were never the problem. The problem all along is that we approach socialising from a BP, feminised perspective.

A man who has been forced to participate in conversations and interactions that he never wanted to be involved with in the first place will always look like a bumbling idiot compared to a woman in the same situation.

This is the reason why men are so attached to video games nowadays. Video games are almost the only activity in which a man can feel like a man again, outside of sports.

There are always objectives: new levels to compete, new bosses to beat, new high scores and records to break. This is very engaging to the male brain.

WHAT ARE THE ACTION STEPS TO TAKE BASED ON THIS INFORMATION?

Never again agree to meet up with people just for the sake of meeting them. Maintaining relationships is the woman’s job.

If you really have to go and see Uncle Joe who you don’t really care about, at the very least set a time limit for the meeting and stick to it, no matter what mom or girlfriend says. 10 minutes and you’re out of there, the whole world be damned.

If it’s unavoidable, make it an objective to gain something from the meeting/visit. Meeting and talking to people just for the heck of it is what women do, not men. Always get something out of anything you put your time into. Self-sacrifice is beta behaviour.

A good thing to try is to try to gain favours out of the meeting.If the host asks you what you want for drinks, make them work for it. Don’t refuse out of politeness.

Ask for a coffee, anything they have to do some work to serve you with. An alpha is never afraid to assert himself. This will require practice though if you’ve been raised to be the thoughtful and polite type.

In that case avoid going for the visit in the first place. Whenever you find yourself in a social situation, make it a habit to find out who the betas and alphas are in the room.

This will come in handy as you build yourself up. This is how you build or enter into Hunting Packs that will serve you in attaining your goals and objectives.

“During a volunteer mission days before the end of his first deployment, he crawled over 1,500 yards of field to shoot a high-ranking NVA officer.[19] He was not informed of the details of the mission until he accepted it.[15] This effort took four days and three nights, without sleep, of constant inch-by-inch crawling.[19] Hathcock said he was almost stepped on as he lay camouflaged with grass and vegetation in a meadow shortly after sunset.[2] At one point he was nearly bitten by a bamboo viper, but had the presence of mind to avoid moving and giving up his position.[19] As the officer exited his encampment, Hathcock fired a single shot that struck the officer in the chest, killing him.”

The above is an excerpt from Wikipedia detailing the feats of Carlos Hathcock. This is the potential within a man if he truly gets behind the MISSION.

He is virtually unstoppable. Having conversations is nothing compared to what Carlos did. The only difference is that Carlos had an objective/mission he believed in, while most of us are stuck in situations that are forced down our throats.

The only way to break free of this conditioning is to be an asshole for a while and outright refuse to be forced into any situation you do not want any part in, societal pressures be damned.

If you handle the fundamental issue at hand, I promise you’ll pick up all the other conversation minutiae in due time.

This article is also available in ]my blog](http://attractioncypher.com/how-to-be-better-conversationalist-tips-men/)


[–]diomedes777 265 points266 points  (39 children)

Been seeing a lot of these conversation "skill guides" lately. This is my 2 cents.

I'm not a lone wolf nor a pack hunter. I genuinely love talking to people and have loved doing so my whole life. I'll talk to men and women one on one and feel zero anxiety, feel complete comfort and am able to naturally guide the conversation, find myself genuinely interested in the person i'm talking to and will talk with them, never at them. In almost every instance the person i'm talking with enters the conversation mentally defensive. They're never open, and I can feel an instant guard-up mechanism going on. I recognize this and converse in a way that shows them I'm not judging them on any level, not interested in talking at them, that I view them as completely equal and I'm genuinely interested in their views and opinions as a human being, while still being unwaveringly confident in my own opinions and views (but also being willingly and reasonably open to persuasion). What results is a beautiful thing. The guard drops, the conversation is allowed to actually happen and you start properly interacting with a person who now respects you entirely because they are now relating to you as a fellow human, not person but human.

99.9% of people do not have conversations. They talk at people. That's it. Men and women. They will never change, because fundamentally they see themselves as separate, disconnected entities from the person they're talking to. It's pathetic. They are insecure, self loathing and solipsistic because they simply cannot relate on a human existential level to the person they're talking to - they're almost perceived as a threat instead of a fellow human being.

Being a good conversationalist means loving yourself to the point of recognizing the beautiful qualities of an actualized human being in other people, and then wanting to interact with those qualities (even if most people aren't actualized) in strangers - because it's beautiful and powerful. I'm not sure how i can explain this any better - I'm basically saying you've either got it or you don't in terms of conversational skill.

Everyone here will know what I'm talking about - when you meet that one person who instantly makes you feel comfortable, accepted, open, warm and even slightly intimidated within 20 seconds of talking to them. You are then completely attracted and drawn to them in a way you can't explain. You might even feel like you hate them for some inexplicable reason. They haven't practiced - this is just who they are. I can think of maybe two people in my entire life who i've met who are like this.

To get to this point you have to love and I mean fucking love yourself and you have to be confident in your value as a human. You also have to understand other people are yearning to properly talk and connect with other people, but we're so used to being spoken to instead of spoken with, having garbage, empty conversations void of any substance, that most people are completely closed off to the idea of having a real conversation with anyone because we just assume everyone is a fucking idiot. This is what makes it so hard for men who are new to RP to have real conversations - they've basically admitted defeat in thinking that everyone else is just a vapid, selfish and hollow shell of a person, and they think "what's the fucking point, I hate people".

This is why redpill is so fucking important

[–]evilcatnap 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Nice write-up. I'd go as far as saying being a good conversationalist is not so much a logical thing as it is mediating the feeling inside your chest. If you feel tense, hesitant, or annoyed, this will reveal itself naturally in the way you speak and respond.

[–]majorbollocks[S] 19 points20 points  (6 children)

Thank you. I'm also at that level now as far as being social and conversational is concerned. The reason I wrote out this guide with such an extreme approach and frame is because most blue pill men I see do not love themselves.

And the reason for this is that they are too conditioned to deference and sacrifice all their lives.

This is a starting point for men who have never owned or exercised their power in social situations.

I too, started of as a wimp. My experience is that it's necessary in most cases to go to the extreme end and be a prick for a while, so you can later take a few steps back to recalibrate and balance the two polarities.

Darkness after all is the purest form of power

[–]diomedes777 17 points18 points  (3 children)

I understand, and I understand why many of these guides are being written - they're all in good faith and make perfect sense on a rational analytical level - we just have to get to the root of the issue instead of acting like there is a tried-and-tested objective method of making a man miraculously evolve into a good conversationalist, because there's so much more fundamental work that comes before that. It's akin to teaching a beta simp PUA while neglecting theory, and then getting pissed off at him when his "tried and tested" techniques in the field inevitably terrify women. Conversation goes beyond red-pill blue pill dichotomy, it's something very intrinsic to a person's connection to themselves on a human level. Not saying we can't work towards being better conversationalists - but first thing's first, you have to become a human who loves being human, and thankfully (also sort of ironically) redpill is a necessary prerequisite on that journey.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You're right, but also remember some are newbs, a few are fully aware and competent, while everyone else is somewhere in between. Without the basics this will not help much, that's why we say read the sidebar. We can't put everything needed to reach the lowest common denominator in every post, they would be too long to read. Everyone starts and ends on a different place, their journey is unique unto themselves, where they are on it varies, so you don't try to reach everyone, you aim for those in a specific area.

[–]majorbollocks[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes thank you. This is what I was aiming for in this post. To reach men that have never learned to assert themselves.

[–]majorbollocks[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the input. I do believe that the root of the issue is that most men are brought up to neglect the darker aspects of their personality, which in turn makes them feel less human and less self-love.

Selfishness is good. And this guide is telling men to approach socialising and conversations in a more selfish manner.

[–]svparty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do I look e myself with the intensity you just described? I have been looking for answers but nothing works.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is an incredible post. You certainly seem to "get it" as this post really gets at the core of the issue. Thank you.

[–]KV-n 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Spot fucking on, however i have never met the person you describe, in fact cant even imagine such person

[–]fedja 13 points14 points  (3 children)

I've had the fortune to befriend a senior State Department diplomat on his N-th international post. He was one of those people, the kind of person who commands a room and is instantly liked by anyone he talks to. A textbook alpha presence with an aura that drowns out surrounding noise.

I initially told myself this was a natural characteristic of his, because it was easier for me to rationalize. Now, some 15 years later, I've come to see that it's a method, a process you can learn. He's just done it for so long, knowingly or through trial and error, that it became part of him.

On the face of it, it's incredibly simple, but hard to replicate in practice. I've been mindful of it for a few months, and I'm slowly getting a hang of it.

The trick is to be genuinely interested in another person. Talk to someone about them, listen, empathize, and lead the discussion into learning about them even when it seems like you should provide your own point of view. People love being acknowledged, they like to feel like someone is interested in them, and they're honored when someone genuinely takes time.

The basic example is so simple it almost hurts.

"Hey, you seem like you're having a good time" "Yeah, I haven't had a break from work in what seems like months" "Oh, tell me about it. I sometimes feel like...."

Wrong. You've immediately jumped to insert yourself in the discussion. They're now listening about you and you're just like everyone else in the room. The better answer would have been:

"That bad, eh? Takes a dedicated person to push that hard at work."

This is a cue that they can now follow up with either how hard they work or how their boss is a cunt. You respond not with how your boss was a cunt once, but with another leading question that keeps the focus on them.

This keeps the person in focus, and with every sentence, makes them feel more like you're genuinely interested in them. That makes them feel good, and the fact they feel good when they talk to you makes them like you. Of course, this is easiest and most effective if you're genuinely interested in them, but you can fake it till you make it real.

Mind you, you don't need to abandon your ground, grovel, or play bottom to do this. A curious and lighthearted "interrogation" is most often interpreted as a humble play from a position of power. After all, you divulged very little of yourself, and you let people jump to conclusions to fillnthe gaps on what you, the person that made them feel so good and comfortable, are like.

Plenty of books on the subject, I suggest Switch as a starter.

[–]gazzaa2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the end it amounts in Game perspective to 'let women talk about themselves'.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Like op said, you can't be genuinely interested in another person, unless you love yourself on a certain level. I think this is because most people use conversations to gain ego gratification from other people. We use each other to feel confident. If a person is truly happy, they can sit and enquire about the inner workings of others without the petty desire to insert themselves.

[–]fedja 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think self awareness is key. When people talk about themselves due to low self esteem or need for ego they don't realize the effect it has. Understanding the patterns helps correct them, you don't need to be a transcendent master of self to do less self defeating shit. :)

[–]Shadowduh -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

I didn't realize i was the person they described until i thought about how everybody i meet wants to tell me their secrets within a few minutes of conversation.

[–]skot5237 1 point2 points  (1 child)

if you have that you and especially the people around you are very lucky. it's a special kind of person who possesses such natural charisma and gravity

[–]Shadowduh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get told it's because of my eyes, I don't think they are anything special but I don't say things I don't mean and I think people just pick up on the fact that i don't bullshit.

[–]couid points points [recovered]

I'd love to read a step-by-step guide from you on how to engage and communicate with people. It seems as though you've got a very valuable skill.

[–]diomedes777 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think I'll write a guide up tonight, have had a few PM's. Thank you man.

[–]fedja 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You should look into the book The Like Switch by Jack Schafer.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sit down and write out what taking a genuine interest in other people means to you. Tossing your own ideas around and writing them down is how you understand it for yourself. Reading someone else's ideas is good, but it usually doesn't lead to internalization.

[–]Shakydrummer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dude. Yes. I've been slowly trying to ascend to that point but it's tricky to really dig deep and find that true love of self. Not everyone has it.

I've met a couple people like that who are just such likeable guys that they disarm everyone around them, just through means of relaxed humour and confidence. They project such a genuine frame that the authenticity allows you to break those Walls and just be people.

[–]AnotherGypsy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Can you expand how to actually talk with people?

[–]ARedPillUser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How do you currently talk to people? What are you thinking as you talk?

[–]electricspresident 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is a big part here where I think the TRP is stuck at.

You see TRP's notes on maneuvering in social game is alright, sufficient but not significantly success boosting. I would like experienced people here to clarify on only 1 thing which communication style is better?

See, we have the cynical implementation that GLO has just posted & this post here; which for the record are in contradiction( not wholly but significant enough). Basic basic is like the cheapest small talk while letting people know that you're in the 'secret world'; now genuine conversationalists tend to go deep in general since they intend tk truly connect to people but the problem arises is that other people still play the "basic basic" game. Now many over here have understood why 1 must play the basic game but does basic result in better stronger friendships? No. This means one has to calibrate when to talk real & when to speak basic which is really harder than you'd think

From my experience given all guys who are of general high smv (looks,money,status,power) maybe 1-2 guys out of say 20-30 guys... are genuine & pleasant to talk to while the rest behave with a 'I'm cool' attitude [the guy from YouTube I forgot the name does a good comparison of RDJ and Chris Evans]

Which brings us to our posts, one can choose to be basic all the time but playing the who's cooler game forever? Which communication style is better & more effective at building your social circle....and yea I've read sidebars, many posts & articles...many have covered it but I'm talking about pure strategy not information of 'what's going on'

[–]skot5237 0 points1 point  (0 children)

they say people just want to feel understood. due to the limits of humans and our language you can never just send your feelings and soul to another person, but someone with these skills is as close as it gets. if one can give the impression that they truly understand and accept another, the person on the other end wont forget that experience.

the ultimate fear is dying alone. the greatest factor in loneliness is having inadequate social interactions. to be able to cut through all of that is very powerful

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you saying the art of conversation lies in the desire to actually understand the other person and encourage them to share their thoughts with you? But not in a way which seems like you're trying to suplicate. That golden mean between genuine interest and subtle resistance when your perspectives conflict?

[–]BlackVale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So basically, all you just said, in this eloquent write up is that you should be genuinely curious about other people. This does not mean approaching people then becoming curious, but being curious first then talking to them. Then from this curiousity, you be open about what you are curious about(i.e. what you think, where you come from, where you have been, where you want to be, etc.) you know the general things that make a person the person that they are. Then sharing things that you find similar or different. Am I close or just completely off the bat here?

[–]sumethreuaweiei -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Here's the thing — I actually, genuinely don't like people beyond their human capital.

Most people, especially at a younger age, aren't doing shit with their time or their lives so they aren't building anything, they aren't creating anything. I have things to build and create, I'm not going to waste time on them when I can invest that time in myself by lifting, reading, or doing some other "masculine" hobby.

Here's where the paradox comes in. When I see someone of higher value or SMV, however, I see myself as lesser and get anxious. I don't see myself as equal to anyone because I'm unique with whatever skill set I have. People are either better, or worse. I learn from those who are better, and make them feel good for knowing somebody lesser, and sometimes give them pointers (not too many: Law 11) even they may not have thought of. I'm also culturally biased and severely xenophobic except on occasion, because I want to adapt to the current cultural climate.

Conversational skills is what I most definitely lack and want to improve, and I see charismatic people as a threat. I get severely anxious around the popular frat "alphas" or whatever you want to call them because many of them know I'm lesser.

However, if liking people is a prerequisite to becoming as good of a conversationalist as them, then call me a sociopath.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're just insecure and lack confidence. When you say you immediately size everyone to their human capital, you're telling me your frame is dependent on its relation to others. Your ego and it's value is determined by the outside world. Your true value is determined inward, not outward. Meditating on your connectedness with all things, people included will help relax the egoic presence in your mind. It will quiet that insecure part of yourself so you can accept who you are right now instead of feeling the need to assert yourself.

[–]GAYBLACKMIDGETS -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

You are wrong on a few fronts here. You make bold assumptions about why other people are the way they are, which is ignorant because you actually dont know shit.

[–]bone80 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Seems like psy ops to trick gullible betas that they're lone wolves and therefore should not talk to many people. Like it's some sort of exclusive club, like who wouldn't wanna be in the 20% that are?

[–]ARedPillUser 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Some pretty bold claims there yourself. Gonna back any of that up or do you just talk big to feel better?

[–]GAYBLACKMIDGETS -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Nah I dont care to waste more than a few seconds debating strangers on the internet. Usually.

[–]FlushableHandle 47 points48 points  (3 children)

This seems like it was written by someone with a serious lack of social skills, to try to justify being socially retarded and playing video games all day as being "manly". Most really successful men I know are life of the party types. Networking is key to building a good business.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 38 points39 points  (1 child)

Glad to see I am not the only one who thought as much.

This might be the TRP post with the least suitable title I have ever read. Titled "How To (Actually) Be A Better Conversationalist – Tips For Men", this post proceeds to provide (actually) zero tip on how to be better at conversations. Seriously how do "ask for coffee", "find the alpha/beta" and especially your #1 advice "don't go to places you don't want to go" actually improve your conversational skills?

Anybody here wants (actual) tips to improve your conversation skills? There you go:

  • Go out and talk to people. Force yourself. Conversation skills is a muscle you develop by exercising it regularly and with increasing loads. The gym where to do this is any social environment. The exercise to do this is to talk. The initial low load is talking to your uncle Tom at the yearly family reunion. The increasing load is more people, more strangers, more professional environment, more situations with something at stake (sales, interview, presentation at a conference, etc)

  • Experience things in life and also read books and (decent) magazines, watch (decent) documentaries. This is the basic raw material necessary to fill in the conversation. You'll need to tell stories and to give opinions, and you can't do that if you don't have the necessary material.

  • Practice story-telling. Do you ever wonder why modern TV series are so addictive you binge-watch them? That's because Hollywood producers have mastered the art of story-telling. There are a number of very simple tips on how to hook your audience to your story. Google "story telling" and read about them. Pick a story that happened to you with some of the necessary ingredients. Craft the story with the tips you learned. Write it down. Commit it to memory. Then practice it on people when you're out. Take mental notes of whether they got hooked at the moments you planned for it to happen.

  • Similarly, take mental notes of what people are saying when you find yourself really engaged in the conversation. What is it that they are saying that is so captivating? Usually, it'll fit the good storytelling tips discussed above.

  • You wanna get to the next stage? Or want to shock yourself by going straight into advanced conversational skills rather than baby-stepping your way to it? Get in Sales. Practice Game on the field. Join an Improv theater group. Advanced conversation situations are the ones when you're trying to sell (respectively something, yourself, a believable story). I couldn't recommend theater (and particularly improv) more. This shit will make you a star conversationalist in no time.

[–]majorbollocks[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ok here's the thing. I worked in sales for 5 years so I totally agree with what you're saying. When I got into game and started cold approaching it didn't take too long to get the hang of it because I had the basics down.

But I've seen too many guys who try to shock themselves into self improvement end up just shocked and traumatised without actually having improved.

In these cases the most common reason is that they're so pussy-whipped by mom, sisters, and female friends that they've never asserted themselves and always deferred and sacrificed their time and energy even though they don't want to.

This post isn't a quick list of tips and tricks - it's a mindset shift to be more selfish in social situations.

[–]WolfofAnarchy 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yup.

"If you're a Lone Wolf just don't socialize" - OP

Sounds a bit like:

"If you're not muscular, don't lift"

[–]boundarychimps 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Women do not need this prerequisite. They can yap on and on about nothing in particular to nobody in particular or worse gossip about other people just so that they can have something to yap about.

Have you heard the saying "information is power"? All that mindless gossip is really gathering intelligence and spreading propaganda. Women gossip for the same reason that countries have spy agencies, even if it's less of a conscious decision. Men who understand this can make a point of learning how to participate both for their own benefit and for the fun of the challenge; this is generally called "networking".

Maintaining relationships is the woman’s job.

Only you can maintain your relationships. If you delegate it to someone else, they're now their relationships.

And relationships are important. They're how you find out about new opportunities or threats (remember, spy agencies), and how you're able to ask favors.

[–]majorbollocks[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Agree with you completely but this is advanced stuff. My guide is for noobs who have been pussy-whipped by their moms and girlfriends into going to things they don't really want to attend and as a result get a negative feedback loop that damages and retards their social skills

[–]FlushableHandle 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No one is pussy whipped by their mom, bro.

You just sound like a teenager throwing a temper tantrum "No mom! I'm not going to go to Uncle Joe's wedding because I'm an Alpha Man!"

[–]RedEmbrace 17 points18 points  (3 children)

I was a social retard for the vast majority of my life. Now I'm a social beacon people gravitate towards. I'm irradiating fun. Maybe not much as you might've imagined, but I'm now no longer an outcast: I'm a spotlight and I give everyone a chance to be on the stage with me. People approach me just to have some of my fun. As a person I still have almost no value, however because of that talk-talk-talk I now have social proof. It spirals upwards as a blend of confidence and even more social interactions. Call it "social game" if you want.

First off, I look incomparably better today than I used to several years ago and beyond. My lifts aren't even impressing - ~1.2 BW, however I'm lean af and look really nice. I want to give a shoutout to athlenex and alan thrall. Also, facial routine, guys, don't neglect it: if you want to irradiate you have to be shiny.

Second, being a social retard I got a sales job in entertainment. I went in not for the money but specifically for the skill. My job is to BE fun and convey that fun to random people. Helped a ton.

Third, I talk to people in my gym. I know here at TRP the memo is "I'm here to work gtfo all; headphones up in their ass" however I go here because I have fun and people around me have fun. Other people see me having fun - they want to be a part. Read this again. This is how it works. Again, this spirals upwards real fast as you build up your audience.

I read at TRP some time ago something like: "to have no problems talking to women you shouldn't have problem talking to men first". I believe this is from the post about a dude running social game and how the hb10s are unlocked exclusively through social game and social proof. This changed my view on things because I started talking to random dudes in my gym. Minor things like chit chat with your bench spotter "how much do you bench / is my form okay / do you get sore / fucking anything" are not that minor because, again, it spirals up. A 5 minute chat and BOOM suddenly you have a familiar face to great in the gym next time. Just grind some from here and you'll initiate the spiral. Don't force or rush it! You are a busy person anyway and can only afford so much chatting.

The lone wolf whatever only works if the majority already knows you are indeed a valuable person of some kind, blahblah status + power + indifference but this doesn't work for me because I don't have these first components.

I chose to become a charismatic fam. For me the formula is looks + talks + generosity. What a coincidence after several years in the gym I can actually help newbies and provide some value COMMUNICATING. This is important: a lot of people have value to offer, but they don't do it because they are either socially retarded, can't talk properly or don't care enough. I care and now I can convey the information while being playful and fun (thx trp) and this where the "generosity" part comes from. Obviously, "generosity" goes hand in hand with "warmth" and "presence" which as we know it are crucial parts of the Charisma formula, making me charismatic in return. In a public setting.

This VERY quickly build ups your confidence and consequently abundance mentality and therefore provides that sweet indifference vibe as you stop latching on one person because now you have so many options you don't care.

my 0.02

[–]P4_Brotagonist 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I like what you are saying but really have one question for you. You say you go to the gym to have fun with people and pal around and joke and laugh. I'm not exactly the most in shape dude yet, but I am well on my way to it(dropped about 85 pounds and I'm nearing the weight loss finish line) and while I am in the gym I am so near collapsing exhausted I don't honestly think I could talk to someone if I tried. By the time I leave through the doors my legs are shaky and I'm guzzling my water and have to take 5 in the car before I drive off. Where are you getting this unlimited energy to do all of that and still play around? Are you blasting amphetamines?

[–]RedEmbrace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It feels like social interactions are supposed to energize you: maybe that's a human thing, but maybe it's just my thing. Please consider the fact at work I talk for 8 hours a day be it clients or colleagues so it comes naturally from me at the moment. I also supplement with vitamins, omega, coq10 and creatine - would definitely recommend. I'm not the person you should aspire to be (yet) but this is my input I can give you to help. Try it.

I forgot to mention: find the "roosh v - day bang" book. Just ctrl+f "elderly opening" parts and read.

[–]HothOurYou 6 points7 points  (1 child)

This "guide" is straight up fucking terrible and I hope whoever wrote it is trolling.

[–]Desadarius 8 points9 points  (2 children)

So let's say you approach a woman. Do you have an objective need to fuck her? That's outcome dependence, and it comes off as creepy and weird.

Maybe I'm talking to a woman because I'm bored, she's hot, and I wouldn't mind escalating. I don't have a specific goal in the conversation, and if it doesn't go anywhere, so what? I'll just keep doing whatever the fuck I was doing beforehand.

This post focuses way too much on being "alpha." Not everything is a movie. You aren't some mafia boss. Have fun with your life; don't focus on being Machiavellian all the time.

[–]greatslyfer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Agreed.
Objective to fuck her... it sounds so robotic and mechanical. For me, if I get a "happy" feeling if you will, I make a move, that's it. There's always outcome dependence on some level, just don't make it become a big issue, and just focus on doing what you want at the moment.

We are all outcome dependent, whether we like it or not. The thing that separates the happy people from the sad people is who doesn't get attached to the result, and does it for the experience/ride.
Aka, if someone doesn't reciprocate, don't fucking cry, there's more to life than that particular person.

btw I agree with your post, just expanding on it.

[–]majorbollocks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The objective is always to fuck her. Outcome independence is when you really don't give a shit whether or not you get to fuck that particular girl because you know you have the skills to next her and move on to another girl if things don't work out.

[–]SocietalEngineering 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow I loved this post. This is exactly what I needed. I always thought I was so weird for not wanting to just sit around and bullshit with people for endless hours.

Glad to see I'm not alone.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not a terribly high quality post, if I'm honest, but good anecdote about Hathcock.

You did say something that I found striking. The idea of asking for favors at social gatherings. I, like 95% of people, will not inconvenience my host at gatherings despite the fact that I would do a hell of a lot to please the guests of my events.

You inspired me to make a point of trying to be a guest who asks. Interesting point of action.

[–]jacobsnakeup 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Save button isnt working so I'm commenting to read the rest of this post later.

[–]ilfj 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Objective is the core and necessity else you are wasting time. In case you get caught in a conversation that's going no where start sizing up the people involved and learn them will be helpful in future.

[–]MisterMisogyny 1 point2 points  (1 child)

but on the condition that there’s a clear objective to shoot for that benefits him in some way.

This flies in the face of "outcome independence."

A good thing to try is to try to gain favours out of the meeting. ... Ask for a coffee, anything they have to do some work to serve you with. An alpha is never afraid to assert himself.

That last bit of off base. When someone does a favour for you, it makes them feel better about you because
a) they rationalize that they must have done something for you because they like you, and
b) they subconsciously think that you now "owe [them] one"

I believe that this is in How To Win Friends And Influence People

make them work for it

Enjoy them thinking that you're an ass for taking advantage of hospitality. An no, being rude/difficult does not make you "an alpha," it makes you a difficult ass.

Don’t refuse out of politeness.

lolz from Canada. How about refuse because I dont actually want a drink?

[–]majorbollocks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you misunderstand the difference between outcome dependence vs having something to gain out of whatever activity. My approach is to only get involved in things I like, and turn down social or familial obligations that are a waste of time and do nothing to further you towards your goals.

[–]kealh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I read the book how to influence and gain friends. Best book ever. I went from awkward to a genuine person who enjoy people.

[–]peacemakerzzz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is spot on. I've been following this habit of only meeting with people if there is something to gain from it. Not necessarily material things, but learning and experiences in general, especially about life. Hunting packs come together when they feel like there is a mutual symbiosis between men when it comes to learning RP related stuff.

[–]dknm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what a clickbait title. You're right about one thing - if you have to be in an uncomfortable social function (work, wedding, party etc), be a man and show up - but don't hang out until the end to make anyone happy.

It's sad to view socialising as a transaction to gain something tangible (the coffee, sex) - that's a business mindset, valid nonetheless! Don't expect people to open up and have insightful conversations though.

Try to be open to the idea that out there, there are assertive men and women that socialise (things other than the weather/politics/religion small talk) w/o trying to get you to do something for them. Those are the kind of interactions worth nurturing.

[–]Zoninus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kezias 10 Hook Lead "system" is a good guide.

[–]sumethreuaweiei points points [recovered]

There's one major flaw in your argument.

I don't think shooting the shit has no value. It's rapport and trust building.

[–]majorbollocks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For a more advanced conversationalist, yes. For a beginner, just build the basics in situations that you're comfortable with. At least that's what has worked for me.

[–]Alpha_Jedi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fascinating read...Thank you for sharing. This has given me some good food for thought to chew on...

[–]Ascended_One 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And how exactly did you come to these findings? What exactly are you basing this on?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wasnt expecting this to be as good as it was

[–]boboliboliobli 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dethrone the misandrist succubus in the subconscious, and the male returns to his full glory and all of the potential power that comes with it. Recognize that the BP male has this potential within but doesnt allow adequate avenues for its release, resulting in a sad masochistic excuse for a man. The RP male takes what is rightfully his; and this potential is allowed to manifest real world results according to his desires.