502
503

ScienceDopamine Decoded: The Key to Discipline (Part 1) (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by [deleted]

Think back to the days when you were a kid. The world was such an exciting place, full of endless opportunities. Riding your bike, playing basketball outside with your friends–the simplest things kept you entertained for hours on end.

Assuming you weren’t married to your video game console, our childhoods are some of the fondest memories we have. Full of boundless energy, creativity, and joy, we lived each day to the fullest and dreaded the idea of sleep; we were always ready to go on an adventure.

As the years passed, nearing adulthood, many, including myself started to feel dull, as if life was stripped of its luster.

Enter: Dopamine

Dopamine is the neurotransmitter that is responsible for controlling the brain’s reward and pleasure centers. From an evolutionary standpoint, dopamine is released whenever we perform activities that further our chance of survival, rewarding us for these actions. Thus creating a positive feedback loop in order to increase our desire to perform such activities. Adderall and other amphetamine based drugs take advantage of this pathway by mimicking dopamine, rewarding its user for tedious labor that would not call for a natural surge of dopamine.

Prior to the modern age, dopaminergic reward would be limited to certain events, such as procreation, successfully hunting down a prey, finding a fruit orchard in the wild, etc.. In response to these types of events, dopamine would be released as a reward for the immense effort that courting a mate, or stalking and hunting down a prey takes. Dopamine is naturally released in response to delayed gratification activities coming to fruition.

Flooding the Engine

Today, you won’t have to look far to see dopamine triggers around every corner, accessible to us at the snap of our fingers. HD porn, fast food, video games, social media–these things trigger massive dopamine spikes over longs periods of time due to their perpetual novelty and accessibility. This overabundance of dopamine in the synapse leads to feelings of excitement in the short term, but leads to depression and a decrease in both motivation and energy in the long run. This is due to the fact that dopamine receptors become desensitized to the excessive concentration of dopamine across the synapse, in order to achieve homeostasis. When the stimulus is removed, dopamine receptors remain desensitized, therefore, the body needs more and more dopamine just to feel normal. This is the general mechanism of addiction. Addiction to cheap sources of pleasure have repercussions, which include (and are not limited to) obesity, ADD, anxiety, erectile dysfunction, lack of motivation, O.C.D., depression and lethargy.

To add to all of that, the instant access to dopamine spikes we have today is actually counterproductive to the biological function of dopamine. Recall that dopamine serves as a reward for our hard work paying off. When we are able to have pure neurochemical reward at our fingertips, we end up rewarding ourselves for doing nothing. This vicious cycle of feeling reward for nothing, followed by needing more reward to feel nothing proves disastrous in our ability to do work of any kind. The fact that we are steadily losing our ability to delay present satisfaction for future gain becomes problematic, as today, people would rather watch porn than pursue a potential mate or binge watch Netflix over reading a book.

Breaking Free

If you’re reading this and you suffer from any of the following:

  • Depression
  • Fatigue
  • Inability to focus
  • Erectile dysfunction
  • Social Anxiety
  • O.C.D.
  • Lack of motivation
  • Decreased willpower
  • A general feeling of dullness and passivity

There’s a good chance you have become desensitized to the effects of dopamine.

While it is possible to pelt your neurons with dopamine on a daily basis and still maintain a productive lifestyle through sheer willpower, it is extremely difficult to maintain over the long run. It only gets worse as you inevitably become more and more desensitized as time goes on, leaving you increasingly less willing to perform the necessary tasks that get you where you want to be in life. You wouldn’t give a dog a treat for for sitting around the house and then expect him to do tricks for you. Why would he want to put in work if he constantly gets rewarded for doing nothing? It’s time to stop rewarding yourself for doing nothing and break free from the chemical chains that bind you.

The key to breaking free is to progressively phase out what I like to call neurothrills. These are neurological superstimuli that release excessively high levels of dopamine beyond the level for which we evolved. These stimuli are also prone to abuse due to their extreme ease of access.

Rebirth

After a brief withdrawal phase, the brain’s dopamine receptors become increasingly more sensitive to the effects of dopamine. Depending how desensitized your receptors are to dopamine, the withdrawal phase lasts about 24-72 hours. Once you graduate from this phase, you will typically see your mental clarity and focus improve first, followed by an increased willingness to perform activities that you would normally find mind numbingly boring. From my own experience, as well as that of others, around the one week point, you will notice a marked improvement in mood, confidence and a vast reduction in anxiety.

With each day of avoiding cheap neurothrills, the damage I had given myself from years of dopamine abuse was reversing. The beauty and luster of life revealed itself to me for the first time in years, and so it can for you too.

http://themillennialmonk.com/


[–]klickclackbang 71 points72 points  (25 children)

Porn and video games aside, what are the other neurothrills that may be so engrained in daily life as to have become undetectable? If I wake up and have some coffee while scrolling through Reddit memes and smirking at pithy comments, is that an artificial dopamine spike? Can we have a more comprehensive list of what these unwanted activities are and, if applicable, how to actually replace them?

Looking forward to part two.

[–]TheRedStoic 111 points112 points  (15 children)

A quick way to gauge what's giving you that rush is to take a month and go minimalist. Then again, that's a real pill to deal with and a lifestyle change that'll rock your world. "In my opinion for the better though" so let's start with an empty day.

Take a day where you don't really have anything to do, keep a notepad handy. When you go to do something jot down a yes or no to the following 3.

  • is this helping my mission.
  • is it necessary for my mission.
  • do I need it to live.

This should look something like:

  • organized my music, n.n.n.
  • batched meals for the week. Y.y.y.
  • smoked. N.n.n.
  • researched new engine design. Y.y.n.
  • chatted with a bro. N.n.y.
  • chatted with a hoe. N.n.n.
  • smoked. N.n.n.

Just do that throughout the day. At the end of the day review it. Dissatisfactory things, especially ones that you're going multiple times, are probably dopamine habits.

Examples of dopamine habits I see constantly in others, and some in myself.

Smoking, getting baked, drugs in general, over sleeping, Drinking, Television, Social media, Browsing threads, Gossip, Zoning out and daydreaming, Obsessive argument, Theory crafting (in your head, but not doing anything), Over planning (without doing anything), Building the perfect playlist, Redoing your budget a dozen times, Micro managing things that are already sufficient, Texting constantly, Snapchat, imgur, etc kinda crap, Worrying about x person who isn't family., Worrying about that girl (when there's plenty of others), Playing scenarios out in your head, Playing revenge scenarios in your head, Scoring internet points, Keeping social score in general, Virtue signaling. (I'm better because of my intangible reasons), moralizing.

These are all forms of empty, useless validation. Really just taking a month and going minimalist can snap your mind out of the horrible cycles you don't even realize you're in. It takes good discipline and a willingness to be self critical.

Keep in mind, humans do need relaxation every bit as much as progress and mission fulfillment. Balance is key. Work hard, slay hard, play hard.

[–]Choice77777 30 points31 points  (6 children)

Fuck me...I'm really fucked. I'd have to get stranded on an island to restart.

[–]LOST_TALE[🍰] 17 points18 points  (2 children)

It's nice when you know you're fucked.

[–]Unlucky_Leader 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Now, to get angry enough to change.

[–]LOST_TALE[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

last time I was 'fucked' I was pretty cool about it and unfucked.

I think aslong as your ability and self isn't permanently or semi-permanently damaged, you're not fucked. But I were to lose all my limbs, my memory, my uhh brain.. Then I would be pretty fucked.

[–]TheRedStoic 5 points6 points  (2 children)

You know you're fucked. So monk up. Minimalism. One month. "Do I need this to survive?"

No?

Don't do it.

Yes? Invest in it.

[–]Choice77777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

minimalism ? like in everything or just things that look like fun ? net, tv, sweets, fast food, naps, ? what else ?

[–]klickclackbang 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Thanks for the great response. This is an interesting filter and a far different thought process than filtering via goals or values. One thing in particular caught my attention:

"Playing revenge scenarios in your head."

I sometimes find myself playing out a revenge scenario on someone over something that happened years ago, sometimes even when I was a child. I always thought I was just weird and being compulsively negative for doing this. This is the first time I see someone actually name it. I thought it was just I.

[–]TheRedStoic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not just you. But only you can choose to control it.

[–]Koryphae_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Great response. What do you mean by 'daydreaming'? More in the lines of actually dreaming about random shit, not pondering about stuff. For example today I was just sitting and thinking about snapchat and whether it is a validation tool or a tool for building mystery (might write an essay on it soon), is that 'daydreaming'?

And about music, what do you think, is just plainly listening and enjoying music as well dopamine habit? What about music creation?

[–]TheRedStoic 6 points7 points  (0 children)

For 1, you're thinking. Not doing. Is it affecting the real world? Do you apply these thoughts in the real world consistently? Only you know. But be honest with yourself. If your plans follow with action, no problem. If not, you're escaping. Don't escape. You're an agent. Fucking do shit.

For 2, as a musician and audiophile, no, listening to music isn't a problem unless, like any habit, it's stopping you from action. Tangible, real, in the real world functional action. Again, only you know. But be honest with yourself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hell yes. You're exactly right. I'm a bit older than most here, and let me tell you....you have it fucking right.

I love your priority of chatting with a bro. I have one who I think is having a hard time....I tried reaching out, just to hang out, but to no avail. Perhaps he doesn't like me anymore, and that's fine......but I have more than a sneaking suspicion that he's dealing with a bitch by dealing with that very same bitch. He might not want to talk to me because GFTOW isn't what he wants to hear, but it what he needs to do.

[–]SiulaGrande 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yup. you cant change others, you can only change yourself

[–]EmperorAurelius 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suffer from constantly playing out scenarios. Be it revenge or living the life I want, but in my head.

[–]GuruDev1000 22 points23 points  (4 children)

I think browsing TRP ten times a day for the next blockbuster tip should also be on the list. It's my personal thorn in the side.

[–]TheRedStoic 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Stop searching, start applying.

You're an agent in reality. A few million years have given you this power.

Fucking use it.

Btw, I browse (scan) trp 10 times a day. But I only comment when I have useful info, and I ignore 95% of this stuff. I participate maybe at max 20 minutes in my day on trp.

No problem with doing it, my problem is escapism.

Fuck. Escapism.

[–]GuruDev1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol. Corporations love escapism of the masses.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Good one. You should write that up in a blockbuster tip-of-the-day post.

[–]zhangfei8000 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Nice explanation of the science behind supernormal stimuli

[–]G_Petronius points points [recovered]

I'm yet to see evidence that there's such a thing as becoming "desensitized to the effects of dopamine". Nor does your proposed mechanism make sense:

This is due to the fact that dopamine receptors become desensitized to the excessive concentration of dopamine across the synapse, in order to achieve homeostasis.

There isn't a mechanism for dopamine receptors to become "desensitized", they either bind to it or they don't; if they don't, it's either because the receptor has changed its structure (for which I've seen no evidence) or there is an antagonist present (for which I've also seen no evidence).

In fact, the entire theory of "flooding the engine" doesn't make sense, as "flooding the engine" is precisely how powerful stimulants work. Cocaine blocks dopamine reuptake by binding to the dopamine transporter protein, which means that dopamine isn't drained away from the synaptic cleft and keeps accumulating. Adderall acts on several related transporters and makes them reverse their direction i.e. it makes them flood the synaptic cleft with monoamines (including dopamine), instead of draining them away. The result is over-stimulation, with no sign of "desensitization" of the receptors which, if it existed, would block over-stimulation altogether.

This is the general mechanism of addiction.

That's also not true. The general mechanism of addiction is induced expression of ΔFosB, which produces as a very complex cascading effect resulting in long-term changes in the structure of the brain itself that result in addictive behavior.

[–]Mattalec points points [recovered]

I agree, my explanation of the neurochemistry involved is highly simplified.

The dopamine receptors themselves do not become desensitized, however, they do in fact have the ability to decrease in number, leading to less dopamine molecules being transmitted to the post synaptic neuron. As the dopamine accumulates in the synapse, it is broken down by Monoamine-B. While there hasn't been a study proving that this mechanism exists, we have seen observed it in cases of hyperserotonism, and the subsequent 5-HT1A receptor decrease https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17250776. The corollary to this is the mechanism that I described: As dopamine releases into the synapse at higher concentrations, the number of D2 receptors decreases. One study found that internet addicts had greatly reduced striatal D2 dopamine recpetors https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21499141.

It is incorrect for me to say that dopamine receptors become desensitized, however, it is safe to say that they decrease in number to excess substrate, much like opiod receptors do to excess morphine http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/molpharm/68/4/1127.full.pdf

About flooding the engine: you are correct, that is exactly the point that I was trying to convey. That part of the article talked about the massive over-stimulation of our dopamine releasing neurons. Whether it be producing more dopamine, or blocking the reuptake of dopamine, they do produce the same effect: Overstimulation.

You are correct about delta fos b being responsible for addiction. The reason for addiction is actually the opposite of desensitization. Delta fos b causes sensitization, which makes whatever you are using, more rewarding than anything else.

Delta fos b is actually what is responsible for dopamine desensitization. Delta fos b, as a transcription factor, causes the body to synthesis CDK-5 which causes dopamine desensitization. The more CDK-5 in a neuron, the more dopamine needed to elicit a response.

Apologies for any spelling errors or poor formatting. (mobile)

[–]Psychocist 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Ok, you're both too smart for this sub. Get out.

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUs 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You may be right about the science, but the underlying principle seems right to me. I often go long-distance hiking, which I experience as a sort of "de-tox" of the usual stimulations and comforts of modern life. The first few days totally suck as I slowly come down - sleep on the ground, cold and wet, bored and tired, bugs, etc.

After a few days, though, my system resets, and I derive pleasure from something as small as its not raining as hard today as yesterday. Ground is hard, but at least there's no tree limb under me tonight, etc.

This seems like a similar concept in principle.

[–]Captain_Save_A_Hoe_ points points [recovered]

Does this mean its impossible to regain my dopamine receptors?

[–]inno_func 52 points53 points  (1 child)

You're too smart for this sub.

[–]J-Cov points points [recovered]

I think there's not much research behind down-regulation of dopamine receptors through stimuli, nevertheless receptors can certainly be down-regulated by sequestration of the receptor into an internal membrane to prevent excess cascade signaling (Beta-2 adrenergic receptors, 5HT2a and D2 receptors are all prone to sequestration).

Sequestration is certainly a type of down-regulation, so there is still some logic behind the argument. There needs to be more research done to see if things like excessive social medial use can promote the sequestration of these receptors though.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

We're much more on the money when talking about downregulation, but the more interesting (and evidence-based) avenue of research in that direction (edit to clarify: the direction of natural stimuli having a long-term effect on the dopamine pathways) concerns neurochemical plasticity resulting from natural rewards (as opposed to drugs), such as here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139704/.

However, even that points towards the development of compulsive behavior (sex addiction, compulsive gambling) rather than non-pathological lack of discipline/motivation. In plain language: the evidence I'm seeing points to potentially suspecting that porn/social media/binge watching tv can become addictive, not that they can make you an otherwise lazy piece of shit.

[–]Choice77777 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So what's your explanation to the global depression epidemic ?

[–]808scripture 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Just because he poked scientific holes in OP's post does not meant that the burden of explanation rests on his shoulders.

[–]Choice77777 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

calm your sack, my question is very serious, your stupid answer is dumb.

[–]FlucKk 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I am not as well informed as you are but i immediatly thought that a possible answer to this ''addiction-like" problem to dopamine might be the synthesis of more dopamine receptors which would lead to an incrase of dopamine needs to achieve the spike. That sounds plausible to me, but is it possible ?

[–]808scripture 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. Dopamine receptors are located on the brain. They're chemical structures built with specific neurological pathways. Just like you can't practically create nerve cells (yes I know about STEM cell research), you cannot just synthesize more neurological pathways, or at least not currently anyway.

Even still, if you could add more receptors, those would just end up further desensitizing the brain over time as well. Adding more would only fuel the brain's need for dopamine, which is dangerous, considering that taking a shit without your phone could probably put you through withdrawals at that point. That's like asking if you could fix the feeling of hunger by adding to the human body a second mouth. Yes, you could satisfy it more quickly, but chances are you will end up with overeating problems, and ultimately, obesity.

[–]dxfifa 17 points18 points  (10 children)

Unfortunately for people who actually do have adhd this relationship is different. The body does not produce enough dopamine to start with which means the dopamine chasing isn't caused by instant gratification and desensitization but rather the brain is still sensitive but doesn't produce enough naturally. This is one of the few symptoms shared by almost all with ADHD . Thus without medication to flood the dopamine pathways (which then causes desensitization) discipline is often as hard to achieve as a depressed persons happiness.

[–]TrimPot points points [recovered]

Is this why I feel like shit and can't focus on anything unless I pop an adderall? I seriously want to improve but I instead end up using my free time to browse the internet with 30 tabs open, I start tons of projects and never finish them. I wouldn't say I'm lazy, when I have an extreme motivator like stress/anxiety I'm insanely productive, like I can outperform everyone at work easily, and it's quite gratifying, but when things are going smoothly I just start a ton of small projects and forget what I'm doing or immediately lose interest. Being promoted to management has been the best thing for my career because I can just say "fuck this shit, too boring" and delegate it to someone else. I barely graduated from high school and the only reason I did well in college is because I was fascinated by the subjects in my main courses and for the boring stuff I'd take a small dose of adderall or ritalin and knock out 10-40 pages in a night.

[–]SlothOnRoids 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm in my late twenties and I too just realized my brain probably produces very little dopamine naturally, I popped an Addy for the first time the other day and I shit you not, it's like I totally became a completely different person. I was optimistic, in a fantastic mood, all my anxiety and fear were nonexistent, extremely productive, knew what I had to do to get me where I want to be in life and the diligence to follow through. It's almost as if the me on Adderall was the person I have always strived to be. I am convinced I have ADHD now after doing some research and I'm planning on talking to my doc to see if I can get a prescription for it. I know if I continue to take it I can accomplish all the goals I have set for myself and then some.

Knowledge is truly power..

[–]dxfifa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am a music producer who has produced nothing, I have over 1000 tracks started. None finished. The main problem for me is that my brain gives me extreme signals to do literally anything else stimulating when i'm bored. And usually I only last 20 minutes to an hour even on stuff i love before i get bored. My boredom causes extreme aggravation and high anxiety whereas the average man's causes mild irritation (judging by other people I've talked to about this). This is the one main ADHD symptom that impacts my life and the one that medication helps with the most.

Usually i'll be doing the dishes (or a similar mundane task) and get a strong visceral reaction to lack of stimulation and my brain is telling me to do literally anything else, it's almost painful. When I take my meds i don't get that reaction at all and I do the shit I've gotta do without much trouble. Only problem is i get dry heaves and nausea as well as the night time crash which makes me not want to take meds

[–]Unlucky_Leader -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Fuck this shit, too boring. Do things that are actually fucking interesting. This is something I struggle with as well. Boring stuff is boring to do, do epic shit.

[–]dxfifa 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Problem is that escapism can help a lot but you can't run from your life forever and everyone in our society has got to do some boring shit.

[–]Unlucky_Leader -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Going to be a bit abstract but instead of running from your life why not run your life, while yes boring shit is a part of it, there has to be fun and interesting shit in there as well.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Glad you mentioned this. ADHDers (~5% prevalence) are civilisation's explorers, and suffer the most out of everyone in our superstimulatory culture.

[–]LOST_TALE[🍰] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

doesn't produce enough

because they're in a shit environement with idiots and sutpid teachers becaus e''eveyrone is born the same'' fuckign communist educations system.

[–]Full-Time_Lurker 13 points14 points  (9 children)

Great post. I am prescribed Adderall, aka Amphetamine Salts, and I would like to expound upon it's effects for your understanding of the drug is incomplete. Amphetamines not only increase the amount of Dopamine in your brain by adding fake Dopamine, Amphetamines also keep your natural Dopamine hanging out in the brain, temporarily closing down your used-Dopamine disposal stations. Therefore, when you receive very small hits of Dopamine, for something simple such as cleaning your house, or working on any number of things, it builds up and up in your brain, now filling up over normal capacity thanks to Amphetamines. This causes you to experience euphoria as you accomplish literally anything, big or small, as long as you are still on the drug, and as long as you continue to accomplish things that add to your growing pile up of Dopamine. The pitfalls of increasing your ability to hold on to your Dopamine for extended periods of time include lower natural Dopamine production, which fortunately fades back to normal in time. If you are a Heroin, or Morphine, or an Opiate addict, which in addition to being pain-killers, are basically pure Dopamine, you receive extra Dopamine for nothing. The period in which your natural Dopamine production levels fade back to normality in these particular cases may take years, for now your brain is used to getting A LOT for NOTHING, and stops producing it's own. Drugs like Meth, Cocaine, Concerta aka Ritalin all act in a similar manner to Opiates in relation to Dopamine. Fast food, New Information from Television, the Internet, Movies, Pornography, and scrolling through Social Media all have similar effects as well, flooding your brain with extra Dopamine for doing very little. The scientific name for Concerta aka Ritalin and the chemical make up include the pre-fix "Meth". The scientific names for Vyvanse & Adderall include the suffix "etamine". The effects of "meth" add extra Dopamine to your brain. The effects of "etamines" do so as well, with artificial Dopamine, but they also increase your ability to stock-pile Dopamine. We only have four main inputs for pleasure in our brains. These inputs are Dopamine, the reward chemical, Serotonin, the happiness chemical (which I suggest you all read up on as well), Endorphins, which cause you to endure pain for gain, i.e. "it hurts so good", an example of which would be running a marathon and getting a runner's high during it, or plowing a field and feeling good physically though you are working very hard to the point of pain and discomfort, and finally Oxytocin, the most dangerous chemical of all in my opinion, the love chemical. Or the chemical you receive when you bond with other people and things. Many men who are new-comers here on the Red Pill are Oxytocin addicts, going through withdrawal after a break up, they praise women for their ability to provide them with Oxytocin, or love, but women are unreliable as they are human and naturally hypergamous, they do not love men as men love women, they do not love men as men's mothers love men. It is better to seek Oxytocin from your friends, family, and masculine mentors as loyalty among these individuals in times of low confidence are much more prevalent. Confidence is the key to becoming a Red Pill man and attracting women. Confidence is earned through experience, which often includes failing over and over again. One must not become discouraged as they fail, they must simply attain wisdom and improve. Lift. Read. Peace.

[–]Full-Time_Lurker 2 points3 points  (1 child)

*Disclaimer: This is my understanding of these drugs through my experiences with all of them. I am not a doctor. I am not a scientist. Seek the truth on your own, do your own research. When it comes to Serotonin, or Happiness, this is where your mission as a man comes in to play. What is your mission? Work at it every single day, in the short term you will receive Dopamine, in time you will receive Serotonin, or Happiness, in the meanwhile Endorphins will help when the going gets physically tough, and as you bond with other humans and animals and accept that you are part of something larger than yourself you will receive Oxytocin.

TL DR; "Everything in moderation, including moderation." - Oscar Wilde

[–]enigmaticelement 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very informative though. Helped me understand a little bit more

[–]Choice77777 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Can someone who had never had a relationship and never being in love (excluding v near family) be totally new to oxytocin?

[–]Full-Time_Lurker 1 point2 points  (3 children)

[–]Choice77777 0 points1 point  (2 children)

so a virgin, or one that has never hugged or kissed a girl, has never experienced oxytocin ?

[–]Full-Time_Lurker 1 point2 points  (1 child)

how old are you? recently my two friends, both 24 years old lost their virginity. one of them even has a girlfriend I would consider a 9. this is the first women he has ever slept with. it is never too late. you must simply try. try and you will fail or succeed. outcome independence means it doesn't matter if you fail or win in the grand scheme. what really matters is if you never even try. i think my friends waited far too long to muster up the courage to make a move on women, but they are fine now, just late to the party. but to answer your question you can get oxytocin from cuddling with your pets, making friends, giving homeless people money, etc. its about the human experience of bonding with another human, taking large amounts of LSD has helped me gain insight into empathy and humility. marijuana also helps with a perspective switch, however i do not recommend any drugs until you are 21 and your brain is fully developed.

[–]Full-Time_Lurker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

and for fucks sake man if you're over 18 whats the problem ?

[–]Full-Time_Lurker points points [recovered]

My knowledge of Oxytocin is limited. I am a 24 year old college drop out. I am a musician, that's my personal specialty. The beauty of the internet is that it connects everyone with internet access. Google your question. There are many scholars, many opinions, and many discussion out there that may be able to help you. If you have ever loved a pet, a person, or anything that was probably Oxytocin.

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic 16 points17 points  (7 children)

Well said and fairly accurate for the most part, OP. Dopamine is everything. I enjoyed the list you shared, as symptoms of those afflictions makes total sense when correlated to dopamine abuse. You can see how easily most BP men fall into this viscous feedback loop. Why progress when you can trick yourself out of it?

[–]throw17453 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Your being downvoted means you clearly triggered someone - nothing hurts quite like the truth....

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic 8 points9 points  (5 children)

You get used to it on this sub, my man.

The downvotes show you where to go (most of the time).

[–]throw17453 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Often true. To tie in with this post, the reddit voting system also serves as its own dopamine manipulator that is better ignored.

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Exactly.

You know most of the people here are BP, attempting to shoehorn their paradigm into RP...without changing the core elements that, you know, separate the two mindsets.

[–]throw17453 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The - Thank you TheRedPill, for saving my relationship - post is a good example of just that.

[–]Koryphae_ 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I read the first sentence of that where the post said he is 16 and I closed and downvoted and reported.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 12 points13 points  (2 children)

 

  • Reals before Feelz

 

I know that sounds "too simple" but that's it.

Be a masculine man... place the Reals first and your feelings second.

Happiness is part of the Feelz so don't make that your first priority.

Most beta males place the feelings associated with happiness first on the list and that's precisely how they become feminine in thought.

Remember that women are "Feelz before Reals" or the opposite of what we want.

Woman want happiness and will distort reality to cover their crimes in grasping for it at your expense.

Don't imitate the women because they are addicted to happy feelz. (lack Free Will)

Addicts aren't free.

 

[–]Full-Time_Lurker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

this is very accurate. I pop pills all day to cope. i eat fast food. i dont go to the gym. i eat junk food and candy, and waste my time watching netflix and laying around the house. i smoke cigarettes, and im often miserable. I feel simply by reading the side bar it becomes clear what we need to do to become red pill men, it's all easier said than done, but we all know deep down what were doing wrong and need to fix. its the ability to discipline yourself and actually do what you need to do that seprates the top %20 of men from the rest.

[–]NeoreactionSafe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

 

  • "Reals before Feelz"

 

That pretty well sums it up.

Happiness is a Feelz and not the first priority in a man's life.

Seek Truth before Happiness... seek the Reals before the Feelz.

 

[–]sadhoppipolla 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I stopped porn completely starting this year and haven't pmoed only 3 times this year. I feel a little better but i still suffer heavily from most of the symptoms you mentioned. Is it normal that it takes so long (over 4 months) to recover?

[–]Mikey0 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Make sure your sleep is quality sleep, no cell phone right before bed and 7+ hours. I have most of those symptoms but just found out I have sleep apnea and so many of those depression and anxiety fatigue & motivation issues are improving just because I'm getting quality sleep again. I'm trying to cut out porn now myself not an easy thing to do.

[–]sadhoppipolla 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What is poor sleep in your case? Do you wake up a lot? I sleep 7-6 hours uninterrupted but I think i might have breathing issues during my sleep

[–]Mikey0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well I'm no expert and everyone is different. 6-7 should be minimum, maybe try for more see if it helps your energy levels. If you use a cell phone right before bed you'll cause a delay in how long your brain takes to go into R.E.M. Try 1 hour off before bed.

I have mild sleep apnea. It caused so many issues for me major depression, anxiety attacks and most of all extreme fatigue and lack of motivation.

UARS upper airways resistance syndrome is often how it starts and even this can pull you out of R.E.M. Sleep. If your over weight and snore like me you are at higher risk of having this. You may want to consider a sleep study to test for UARS or sleep apnea. I now sleep with a CPAP machine and it's great. I wake up calm, refreshed and have energy for most of the day now. Where as before I always got tired mid day and lacked the ability to focus on stuff I don't enjoy as much.

I had low grade depression which basically was general tiredness, low grade anxiety and mild depression for years and I'm sure looking back that UARS and my bad sleep routines caused a lot of this. Good luck in your search.

[–]clonegreen 4 points5 points  (4 children)

I did a ayahuasca retreat where all we had access to where books and occasionally music from my phone.

It was the best thing that ever happened as my ideas were more fluid and dynamic.

One major thing I notice now us how phone addicted people are, even without text there are so many apps and things to look at. In social setting I see groups now living their virtual world.

I would like to add meditation as an essential "to do" because it forces you to be honest and concentrate on seemingly nothingness, which is also everything.

[–]Mikey0 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yep total phone addict I read random news stories at traffic lights while driving. God, got to cut this down to make progress.

[–]clonegreen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah it's a process man, look at it like it really is, a dopamine boost that's in a sense a drug like rush. It may take some weening but once you're off you'll notice how free thinking and fluid your mind can be.

Putting your phone on airplane mode, taking the battery off, or hiding can do wonders to reduce your phone consumption.

[–]wtf793 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Can confirm. Got porn induced ED due to my constant jerking. Used to fap 3-4 times a day. Got severe depression and OCD. Now I'm on the road to recovery..

[–]Redteen224 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The fortunate aspect of this is, once an individual pulls away from these compulsions, they will experience life in a way that 99.9% of people around them won't experience. I personally feel that once someone has been able to detach from some of these things, their ability to bring happiness to otherness increases massively - how can you have a positive impact if your life is in a dopamine coma??

[–]Cool_Mob points points [recovered]

Well said OP. I can relate on a very personal level. Quit porn 3 years ago(prior to that I was anti-social,anxious,introverted and absouletly low confidence with my grades dropping faster than a whore kneeling down). After joining No-Fap ,life has been completely 180 degree,in a good way. I still have a lot to do,I am on the skinny side,And I am yet to find a good diet to accomadate to,Plan to join the local gym too.

[–]Choice77777 1 point2 points  (1 child)

So no fap for 3 years or gf at some point ?

[–]heelek 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Does it really only take a couple days to reset? In heroin addicts it takes a lot more time to recover. IF it ever happens that they fully recover. And as far as I know the mechanism is the same in heroin as it is in for example porn or internet addiction. So - got any sources for that couple days claim?

[–]russbussdp 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I have a prescription for vyvanse and I can tell you that the average recovery time (noticable withdraw) is about two days after continued use. I can only assume that similar stimuli yield the same recoop rate. However, after I stopped watching porn noticable effects took about a week, but that may have more to do with a different neurochemical (oxytocin?) than dopamine per porn related to heroin? .....personal observations.....also never did heroin....

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can you provide your description of what a withdrawal phase might look like? A couple days in a cabin meditating?

I did a 10-day silent meditation retreat 3 years ago and may have experienced what you're describing.

[–]AmatureProgrammer 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Is there evidence that supports your erectile dysfunction claim?

[–]ImatWorkfuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Like the dopamine rush I got when Cincy came back from being down 8-3 today. Incredible feeling

[–]cashmoney_x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Think back to the days when you were a kid. The world was such an exciting place, full of endless opportunities. Riding your bike, playing basketball outside with your friends–the simplest things kept you entertained for hours on end."

Thinking back is for you trp guys. I still live like that. #mgtow.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looking forward to future posts on your blog!

[–]Choice77777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So i guess I'm really fucked if i DO identify with all the items on the list except no. 4 and possibly no. 6 ?!?

[–]Yumey95 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Is it dopamine-addiction if you constantly crave that you have fun or have something to do or think about? I remember in childhood I hated being bored and videogames were the ultimate solution to that. Now the side effects are showing and whilst doing shit that's important my head feels like it's craving fun. Is the solution to just power through the boredom and get things done before having fun? Or even better, replacing videogames with stuff like reading/drawing/instruments?

[–]Shamlei 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Addicts can only know they're addicted when they stop not when they abuse something.

This means you're craving easy dopamine that you used to get by gaming.

There's no dopamine addiction as you say it, because we are naturally programmed to seek dopamine the thing we are addicted to are the easy ways to get some dopamine.

You could drop videogames or not but it all depends on your vision, if you want to do great things (and by that I mean the kind of things people would tell you you could never do when you talk about it) then you can't really afford to carry dead weight.

If you simply want to live confortably, average kind of life ect.. Then you can keep going it's not going to make it impossible.

There's no wrong answer it all depends on what you want to be when you die.

[–]Jolly-rancher359 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You ever wonder if given enough time the human race will evolve to stop getting dopamine rewards from abundant things like sugar or drugs?

[–]Shamlei 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats not gonna happen, we need those things if people drop all the dopamine heavy stuff tomorrow then we will face the biggest crisis ever.

You can't save everyone and you need to use some people so that you can rise.

[–]BornToExpand 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great article. I'm so addicted to my phone and more to my computer, I've tried to tell myself when I'm on the PC, instead of playing League or watching porn, I'd only use it to learn code. It's hard but it's getting better. I also watch a lot of TV, was doin a ton of calisthenics but my joints are flked so had to stop n now I kind of regressed on my progress, any tips?

[–]DatingCoach111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting article. Fast for a few days, work out, stop whacking off, and notice the difference. You'll be a completely different person. We cannot change our brain structure, but we can control how it reacts. In the end, we achieved the desired behavior; people will start to believe you're an extrovert. Excellent read.

[–]vnjxk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even though I'm pretty sure I've read similar Posts, this post opened my eyes in a way that I always said that life meant to have fun, no matter how. But now It made me figure out how like there is no light without darkness, I cannot truly enjoy life without doing some hard work for my 'treats'

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does intense exercise count as a neurothrill? I take a pre workout and get into these fairly intense euphoric endorphin states 1-2 hours into a good workout. I've always thought it was healthy.

[–]Mikey0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you OP, great post and got me thinking about how I can replace my video game relax time, with reading business books instead.

Now how on earth do I get rid of this phone addiction. That's going to take some doing. But thanks for pointing out how I'm sabotaging myself with chasing silly distractions.

[–]maxofreddit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

/u/Mattalec -

I totally agree/see the point/appreciate this post. it's really good stuff. Thanks.

I'm wondering if you have links/documentation of the mechanism this happens by, from an elementary bio-chemistry perspective. The reason being is what you're describing sounds a whole-helluva-lot like insulin's role in type 2 diabetes and how excess sugar consumption cues many of the disease's symptoms. It would be fun to see parallels in the two if they exist. Are there any that you're aware of?

Thanks agin for the post!

Edit - clarity

[–]arth14 0 points1 point  (0 children)

marking this to read later

[–]punkrockfishboy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You wouldn’t give a dog a treat for for sitting around the house and then expect him to do tricks for you. Why would he want to put in work if he constantly gets rewarded for doing nothing?

I see the correlation with blue pill men being the nice romantic guy in romcoms just to get sex because they seen it in the movies, where they do the beta behaviors expecting the reward, and when they don't get it, they get angry, bitter, and resentful.

But thank god, now we have TRP. A lot of good posts and it's changed my life and is making men be men.

[–]sgopalan58 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If your receptors gets sensitized again after few days, why would you have to stop doing drugs ? For example, let's say I smoke weed and then after 3 days , the receptors should be normal again , right ? which means that normal activities' dopamine should satisfy us . Please do correct me which part I've misunderstood.

[–]Full-Time_Lurker points points [recovered]

Great post. I am prescribed Adderall, aka Amphetamine Salts, and I would like to expound upon it's effects, and correct you a bit for your understanding of the drug is incorrect. Amphetamines do not increase the amount of Dopamine in your brain, Amphetamines simply open the Dopamine Receptors, or Dopamine Receivers, in your brain. Therefore, when you receive very small hits of Dopamine, for something simple such as cleaning your house, or working on any number of things, the receptors, now wide open thanks to Amphetamines, receive a much larger dose of your naturally produced Dopamine that comes with completing activities. This causes you to experience euphoria as you accomplish literally anything, big or small. The pitfalls of increasing your ability to intake Dopamine artificially include shriveled receptors which go into remission when you are no longer on the Amphetamines, which fortunately fades back to normal in time. If you are a Heroin, or Morphine, or an Opiate addict, which is basically pure Dopamine, the effects are much more like what you've described above, extra Dopamine for nothing. The period in which your natural Dopamine production levels fade back to normality may take years, for now your brain is used to getting it for nothing, and stops producing it's own. Drugs like Meth, Cocaine, Concerta & Ritalin all act in a similar manner to Opiates. Fast food, New Information from Television, the Internet, Movies, Pornography, and scrolling through Social Media all have similar effects as well, flooding your brain with extra Dopamine for doing very little. The scientific names for Concerta & Ritalin and the chemical make up include the pre-fix "Meth". The scientific names for Vyvanse & Adderall include the suffix "etamine". The effects of "meth" add extra Dopamine to your brain. The effects of "etamines" increase your ability to intake natural Dopamine. We only have four inputs for pleasure in our brains. These inputs are Dopamine, the reward chemical, Serotonin, the happiness chemical (which I suggest you read up on as well), Endorphins, which cause you to endure pain for gain, i.e. "it hurts so good", an example of which would be running a marathon, or plowing a field, and finally Oxytocin, the most dangerous chemical of all in my opinion, the love chemical. Many men here on the Red Pill are Oxytocin addicts, they praise women for their ability to provide them with Oxytocin, or love, but women are unreliable as they are human and naturally are hypergamous, they do not love men as men love women, they do not love men as men's mothers love men. It is better to seek Oxytocin from your friends, family, and masculine mentors as loyalty among these individuals in times of low confidence are much more prevalent. Confidence is the key to becoming a Red Pill man and attracting women. Confidence = experience + wisdom. Lift. Read. Peace.